Bandsplain - Valentine’s Day Mailbag With Amanda Dobbins, Plus an Interview With Joyce Manor’s Barry Johnson

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

It’s a special Valentine’s Day mailbag, and The Big Picture’s Amanda Dobbins is here to help Yasi solve all your life problems. Should you avoid your ex at concerts? How do you get over a break up, even if they are a loser? Need mixtape help? Plus, vacuum cleaner advice!Next, Yasi is joined by Barry Johnson of Joyce Manor to discuss their new album ‘I Used to Go to This Bar’ (1:01:33). Get a quick tour of their beloved Torrance (they are a Torrance band, confirmed), learn a little Joyce Manor history, and find out which song was written on the Torrance 3 bus.CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuests: Amanda Dobbins @akdobbins, Barry Johnson @joycemanorofficialProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplain. I am your host, Yossi Salick. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. But today's show is a little bit different, you guys. Today's show is a Valentine's Day mailbag.

And me and my special guest, Amanda K. Dobbins, will be solving your life. life's problems. But before we get into it, I just wanted to also let you guys know, please stick around after the mailbag because I did a gorgeous little interview with the great Barry Johnson of Joyce Manor and you're going to want to listen to it. All right. Amanda, welcome to the program. Thank you for having me back. I love calling it a program. It has a nice NPR quality too. Yeah, right? I like to feel I'm like a real cherry glazer moment. Amanda, are you excited? I feel like we're going to bring both sides of the aisle to this Valentine's Day mailbag. You obviously good at relationships, happily married, mother tattoo, me doing something a little different with my life.

Also, you guys, I'm really off my game today because this is the first, I think, ever Bansplain in which I'm not wearing hoop earrings. And I feel nude. So naked. You look great. Thank you. I didn't notice. So now that you pointed out, you know. It's weird. I mean, it's okay. I don't wear earrings very often. You ever, really. Well, I got some clip-ons, yeah. So we may be from different sides of the aisle, but this is currently the only Valentine's Day plan that I have of any shape or form. Well, I think that's wise because Valentine's Day is a whole, it's a situation.

And I'm thrilled, honestly, there's no better way to spend it. The thing is, like, I'm not going to have a prefix menu. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, leave me alone. I'll read the first. I guess the first one is there's two, but they're kind of asked the same question. Okay.

So the question is, favorite love songs for the beginning, peak, and end of a relationship, and favorite parasycial celebrity relationship. I love you both so bad, XO, XO, Claudia. Thank you, Claudia. One of my favorite names. It's a wonderful name. Yeah. And then the second one is, hi, Yossie and Amanda.

Can I get a mini mixtape of a song that best describes your love life when single, in a relationship, and post breakup? What songs are getting you through at all? Also, a show I feel like fits the romance or lack thereof vibe. Tell me why I'm still brokenhearted over High Fidelity with Zoe Kravitz not getting a season two. Thanks for the great podcast, Bonge at Briah Hernandez. I love when people throw a bonge in there. I do as well.

I also completely agree about season two of High Fidelity, the show. I'm going to tell you something. You never watched it. It was so good. I mean, it was sort of a COVID blip, right? It came out 2020 or 2021. It was just the one season on Hulu, I believe. It's my fault.

It got canceled. It was great. But, you know, a lot of things were. just in limbo at that moment. It also caused like a personal renaissance for me with the song

Come on Eileen. Which is like I do think was number one on my Spotify wrapped for like two years because of the TV show and then I had children and then it was like

honestly that it was the music man because my life stinks. But it's, I agree. I wish that there were more of this show. It was very good. I'm going to watch it. Okay.

But then I'll be sad because there won't be anymore. Also, in the vein of, like, streaming-specific TV shows that are actually the best recent rom-coms that we have, you know, about Starstruck? Yes, I watched Starstruck. That was more than one season. It was ultimately three seasons. It's wonderful. But if you're watching at home and you haven't seen Starstruck, there you go.

Throw it on. So love songs for beginning middle end. Well, should we start with favorite pariscial celebrity relationship? Yes, though I forgot to prepare for this, so go first while. I think. We might have the same one. Okay. Mine is Duolipa and Kalam Turner.

I really am rooting hard for them. They are beautiful, beautiful people. I was like, I must have something else. Like, I'm, you know, perhaps I'm more niche or alternative than this. And then I was like, nope, I love these two people. This is also my dream to be a gorgeous, fit, sun-kissed vacationing yoga-doing pop star who has, who reads many books and has a super hot British. blokey boyfriend.

Yeah. Did I tell you, when we were together at the Venice Film Festival, I tried to get you into a party. Because Callum Turner. And Callum Turner did walk by me in the hallway, and he was very tall and very handsome. But that was really the only thing

that you missed from the party. I'm sorry? It was otherwise like an awkward afternoon party. You like went home and did work for this podcast. What if he had walked past me and been so taken by me? That's true. But I think the reality was that other people

were trying to stop him for photos and his publicist was like, no, I'm sorry, we don't have time, and he was very polite. That's a good answer. I'm trying to think if there's anyone older that I'm also into. Oh, I love Kevin Bacon and Kira Sedgwick. That's a long, long time one of mine. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, Ben Affleck, but he's, I can't say Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez. You just like the Jennifer, Jennifer Axis. Sure. I'm rooting for everyone. But I hope they find happiness and also real estate solvency. Yeah. Oh, I like Mandy Patinkin and his wife.

They make nice Instagram content together. That is very true. Those are good. If I think of any more while we're talking about this. We'll just pop them through the episode. Okay. Well, for me, beginning, I have a couple. The flies got you where I want you.

Okay. You guys are going to look this one up. Does it have a bit of a reggae breakdown? Yes, it does. It was the 90s. Also, love song, which is a sort of undersung Madonna song. It's a duet with Prince. Okay.

I'm listening. It's incredible. It's like a very sexy song about like, is this or isn't this, you know? So I feel like they're both sort of circling sexy songs, which is sort of what I like to hope that the beginning feels like. I have, I guess, some more. It's not not sexy, but the first thing that popped into my mind was thinking about you, Frank Ocean. Oh, yeah. Which also aligns with when I started.

dating my now husband. And I think this is the only like biographical choice that I have. But I remember like the whole channel orange moment. And this, I mean, this song,

I don't know. Like you can like lift a table with it. It's so wonderful. It's so yearny though. And I think not though. I mean, that's often exactly how I felt

that I'm now reimagining myself as a powerful, sexy woman. Okay. So that was my, I think I was like, no, I no longer yearn. That's,

I think, think that's beautiful. Maybe that's what we all can, you know, work towards in our relationships. But it really more, it really amort. Okay. No, no, no, no. What about the middle, Amanda? The first thing that came to my head, and this is because my son, I have two sons, my four-year-old, older son, has Miles Tanzer's book about music for kids and is really into it, and he's really been taken with the Joni Mitchell page. And he would prefer to be listening to Big Yellow Taxi at all times, which is not my peak relationship song, but I've been trying to...

I mean, I've been trying to... You do quote it a lot and I think of you. But we've been listening to a lot of Johnny Mitchell. So, Case of You is in my head. And there is something in, like, peak relationship that also implies that there's going to be, like, a down peak. You know? And so Case of You

like, it's like baked in. Like, in cases, all of that. But I mean, just it completely goes over a four-year-old's head, but every time we're in the car and, like, no, no, mommy's having a moment. Yeah. This is, you're like the love actually about a bit, the Evan Thompson character. No, that's both sides now. Okay, that's a different

Joach even still happens. Just saying, it's a similar energy. I'm right there with you. I feel like the songs I picked are all sort of like both beautiful and sad because they feel like there is like Well, peak means that they're like, yeah. And I mean, of course there's like, we're

talking about relationships that end, so it's kind of different. I'm not talking about like your 40-year marriage or whatever because I'm sure the song in the middle of your 40 marriage is probably a totally different song. Yeah. Structure and style. I put Within Your Reach by the Replacements. Okay.

Really got to your song. Blue Light by Block Party. Okay. And I actually have five. I'm sorry. I really like this part. It's fine. Number 41 by the Dave Matthews band.

You don't even have to tell me about number 40. Listen, okay. Number 41 specifically live, the live at Luther College version of number 41. I definitely made out in the back of a Jeep chair. with my first ever boyfriend to number 41. It's so good. That's a great pull. I have a playlist of like 20 different versions of number 41 that I sometimes put on when I'm at peak mental illness. And I think it is one of the most beautiful and romantic songs. I just had to physically restrain myself from like doing the first line and like my Dave Matthews voice. Anyway.

Come sing. I swear. Yeah. Unfortunately, this song I believe is about his lawyer. So it does take a little bit of the sheen off of the romance for me. But fuck, that song goes so hard. He didn't have to go so hard with that song. He really snapped David Matthews on that one. And then Fine Shrine by Purity Ring, which is a real, like, you had to be blog house moment thing.

But there's like a lyric in it about, like, cutting open your sternum. I'm like, oh, I guess, just like, go inside. I open my sternum and you go inside and you live in there. And Bjork's hyper ballad. Oh, good one. Yeah. I go through all this before you wake up. can feel happier to be safe again with you.

It's beautiful. Yeah. And then it has to end, Ben. Yeah. And it's all fucking over. I mean, again, I just want to gut here, but I would say that my favorite, you respect the music of Taylor Swift on this podcast. I like you. I'm a big fan of multiple albums.

Okay. So I actually, I thought about all too well as my favorite Taylor Swift's Quorum, the original. I want nothing to do with the 10-minute version. It's an abomination. I sat down at the era. We have to edit. We have to like boundaries are good in life and in art. But anyway, I go with Dear John.

I mean shining like fireworks over your sad lonely town. Really, really, really, really good. Also, the guitar rift subterweet of John Mayer is beautiful stuff. She might be the Picasso of like breakup songs. Yeah. Actually, you make a good point. Sad empty town. Sorry, but yeah.

Now I just remembered a really dark period. period for myself, post big breakup, which coincided with the exact beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. Oh, boy. Was it like, was that a cause and effect situation? No. I broke up and moved out, and two and a half weeks later, they were like, now you need to stand side your house by yourself.

It's good. It is good. I would have gone probably to prison. Yeah. But it also coincides. It's like when I stayed in a relationship too long and I had. had to go on a cruise with the, um, with the guy's entire family. That was God punishing you for not acting.

It was like if I had, if it had ended two weeks earlier, then I wouldn't have had to accept the free cruise tickets. But, you know, they were like buying all the flights. So then I was like committed for another year. Anyway. No, I'm glad. I mean, listen, I have no ill will towards this person. Lovely man.

But like, there I am in my one bedroom apartment alone, COVID-19 pandemic. I was supposed to have my sex in the city year. I was like, yes, I'm going to go get cocktails with my girlfriends. We're going to flirt. No, you're up in the house on FaceTime doing puzzles. And also, Ms. Taylor Swift puts out folklore. Sure. Is folklore the one with the Bonne-Vare song?

That's the one. To me, that is one of the best breakup songs. I don't have any time for folklore or Evermore, to be quite honest, except for that song. Like Justin Vernon, you're a real one. I love. And also, Joe Allen, who is credited with a student. or a pen name on that, listen. I tried so many times.

Step right up when it comes in, come on. Oh, come on. It's absolutely killer. And then my other one is a little different. Okay. I don't know if you'll know this one. Okay. If you do, that's great.

This is the cultural exchange, you know? Yeah, this is a song by a band from the Apple Valley called Face to Face Punk Band, and it is called Disconnected, and if you know, you know. Does my husband, Zach Barron, know about this? I feel like it would be in his wheelhouse. No, you don't know what you will give up. He's not allowed to play his music for me, so no, however many times you sing it, I won't recognize it. We talk on the side about job breaker.

That's a secret to a healthy relationship, which is like that's you time. That's exciting. I hope it never comes up in our house. Yeah, that's okay. But Zach Barron, if you're listening, you know face-to-face. Okay, the next one. Do you want read the question? Please.

Hi, Amanda Anyasi. Hello. I love the Big Pick and Bansplain. I have a question. What is your best or worst Valentine's Day? Or do you have any memorable stories associated with it? Thank you. Sammy Robles.

Okay. Just to be clear, I'm not a Valentine's Day hater because I also really hate that vibe where it's like, oh, Valentine's Day, just a capitalistic. Yeah, Hallmark, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, it's sweet to celebrate love. I think that's nice. Like, I like when the kids make Valentine's. for each other.

I like to. Though, I have to say now that I am in charge. No, no, no, no. I'm currently at a school that doesn't do Valentine's Day, which is just, I'm so glad to not be making those valentines myself. Can you imagine? Well, they used to be so fun. Remember, you would go with your mom to the store and you'd be like, oh, my God, I want

the Sonic the Hedgehog. You know, you got to, like, express your personality. I do remember that. Now, fast forward, and you're the mom trying to get to the CBS, and I just, like, I can't, I can't be there. But it's nice, you're right. It's nice to have a holiday. However, I don't.

think I've ever meaningfully participated. I do have one really bad memory, but it was like going to a dinner with a friend and she wasn't nearly an hour late. And so I was sitting at a restaurant. That's embarrassing. And everyone thinks you're stood up. And I had like a little like, present for her. And it was just like, I was like, fucking humiliating. And I was not even a guy. I'm in a similar vibe with you where my most memorable was, I want to say it was like the second year that I was dating my now husband, the aforementioned Zach Barrett, because the first year it was like too early in the relationship for us to spend. So I believe he spent that Valentine's day with John Caramonica, just like deep cuts for everyone. With the lads. Yeah. They must have done

something romantic. But I think they had a lovely dinner. I think they had many lovely dinners before I was on the scene. But so for the second one, I also not being of like Valentine's Day spirit and also like not wanting to assume anything, had like a standing therapy appointment on the day of Valentine's Day in question. And so I was like, you know, the week before I told my therapist, it's like a five o'clock appointment. Like, why would I, you know, I was like, sure, I'll see you next week, whatever. Even if you would have a plan, you should have been able to. And then Zach was like, yes, no, you can't go to therapy because I'm taking you out for Valentine's Day, which was very nice. And it worked out. And I don't even remember where we went to dinner. Did he take you to dinner at 4. But no, and honestly, like, I probably could have sandwiched it in. Maybe it was, maybe it was a six o'clock. Maybe it was like, you know, it was pre-kids. I could go to therapy whenever. Like. Like, it was crazy. But the texting my therapist being like, no, I'm sorry. Actually, I do have a Valentine's Day date was all the memory. That's it. That's it. That's what I got. Yeah. I just had a dark memory of when I was a checker at a market in college and I had a stalker.

He brought me a piece of cake that he made for me. Okay, this turn. Yeah. And I was like, that's, okay. It's beautiful Valentine's Day memories. I didn't eat the cake. Okay, good. Because he made it. And I was like, it's really nice, but also feels dangerous, feels poison control. Right. Yeah. I hope, I wish him well. Okay.

We've all been desperately in love, then broken up with. Maybe, just kidding. Okay. Of course. I was like, not me, but yes, me. What album artist do you associate with an ex that is forever tainted or ruined based on their association with that relationship? Michael Manning. I mean, do you have anything off the back?

Honestly, not really, because A, I'm often the one who put people on to music. Yeah. B, I think I probably did at certain points, but I've gone to therapy for 14 years. Yeah. And I've developed superhuman levels of dissociation. And I even still listen to my ex-boyfriend's music sometimes. Wow. His own music.

And I'm like, this bangs. That's beautiful. I know. I'm not the person introducing the music, but I have historically kept my music interest very separate from, because like unlike you, you know, you're, you know, you're like a women leader in music. Whatever like the music version of women in STEM is is what you are. I'm not like other roles. And I, on the other hand, like, have just like dated a lot of men who are like, let me tell you about like whatever I'm into at great length. And so it's always been sort of like a no, no, no, no, no. Like this, my interest like ends here. And I'll only watch like. I would have absolutely. paid top dollar to be a fly on the wall the day that Zach Barron sat you down was like, this is Jawbreaker. I think that I now have heard some Jobbreaker songs, but I don't know if I could reliably, like, if you played one right now.

And like, I would say that like four out of seven days of the week, like in his home life, Zach is just like wearing a different Jobbreaker shirt. Like this, it's like very important. And I do not think. that I could pass a test if you played it, and I could, like, positively identify them. I just, we stopped because he would, I think he, it was too much too fast.

If this was a rom-com, and we didn't think Zach was maybe going to listen to this, although famously not a band's main listener, I would be like, okay, we have a year until next Valentine's Day, and what we're going to do is we're going to get you trained up with an electric guitar and a jawbreaker song, and we're going to, and then you're going to surprise him by serenading him. with a jawbreaker song.

That's like the rom-com moment, you know? I do wonder if he would even want that because another thing that I think is important in relationships is like you should be at a GQ event also. You got to have your own, you have your own interest, right? And like I, so it's not just that prior to Zach, like I dated like a ton of fishheads, which is just that's on me. and that's why I married Zach and not them.

But it's, so it's not just that they had bad taste, but it's also like, that's your thing, and I got to have my own thing. And I can't have you. And I guess music out of all of the, like, shared art forms is not where. Like, going to shows is not, like, a part of my, was never a part of my dating ritual. You never had, like, an hour song, though.

Like, this is our song. It was a fish song. No. I'm trying to think. But like maybe that's just because I'm not really as a, that's too sentimental for me. Did you have an hour song? Like most meaningfully. Our song by Taylor Swift is a beautiful song. It definitely wasn't that one. It was with my high school boyfriend, Patrick Dugan, wherever you are in the world, again, wishing you well, thinking of you fondly. It was Eminem's by Blinkwine and 82. Oh, okay. Oh, I know that. It's a good one. Yeah. And later in life found out that two of my other friends also have. had the same our song with their first high school boyfriend, which I thought was very

adorable. That's cute. Yeah. Were they all from? No, completely different. Like, people I met later in life, like not even in the same year. It's beautiful. That's right. So the real song was the friends we made along the way.

There you go. I'm really sorry. The answer is me and Amanda are just apparently above having music. I'm not listening to it. Fish started out ruined for me, so it couldn't have gotten any more around. And really, it like expands to any sort of. jam band situation. Except for Dave Matthews. Well, that's true, but even that,

there's like a little more structure. We're going to go. We're going to go to Dave Matthews together. I grew up in in Atlanta, Georgia. So there's a lot going on musically, but there was like a whole widespread thing that was happening. Absolutely not. And then this like really hot guy I went to college with came to Atlanta for one of the

widespread New Year's shows and like was like trying to, I don't know whether he was trying to come to my party or he was trying to get me to go to widespread, but I was like, I'm absolutely not going to be doing that. This is a non-starter. So that's my answer. Okay.

I like it. Okay. I think for a future episode, we should fly to the gorge and see David Matthews band. Okay. And we have mushrooms together. Great. And we film the whole thing. Maybe I went to a Dave Matthews show in high school. I, like, that was the cool thing to do.

But I don't know if I ever made it or whether I just lived vicariously through other people. Okay, do you want me to read it? No, no, no, I can read it. I'm just going to, it's going to be, listen, it's a mailback episode. I'm just going to be brisk. I'm a male in my mid-30s from Maryland who mostly listens to rap, Fugazi, and snail mail. I know what all of those are. I have a teller tendonitis so I can no longer jump to music or join the Mosh Pit, but I'm going through a rehab.

Anyway, my ex-girlfriend introduced me to some cool bands from the past and the presence, such as Radiohead, Bar Italia, Fontaine's DC, Louis Cole, or is it Lewis Cole? I actually don't know. Et cetera. There are a few other bands that she helped me discover, and a couple of them are coming through my town to play their shows in the next few weeks, and I'm 90% sure my ex-girlfriend will be there with her new boyfriend. I do not want to see her with her new partner at these shows, and she probably doesn't want to see me at these shows either. I'm afraid of ruining her experience, especially since she's the

one who introduced me to these bands. Should I go to these shows knowing there's a high probability of running into her, or is this a bit of a selfish move by me? Okay. So I like, there's a self-awareness here that I appreciate. Yeah. And so this is where, as like, a not professional showgoer, Yeah. I have to ask you, like, are you going to, like, run into this person or might there be, like, a slightly awkward moment? Yes, probably. But isn't there a way, like, you don't have to spend the whole show right next to each other, right? Right? I think I just, I'm like, I need more information. Okay. Did you wrong this woman? Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah. Did you do something hurtful or terrible? And I'm not presuming that. I'm just, if, because if that's the case, then okay. Like, perhaps you let her have her thing because it was kind of her thing. If not, if it was just sort of a normal breakup, amicable, you know, or even if it's not amical, but it was like no one really like their hands aren't dirty, you can go to whatever show you want. She doesn't own these bands. You probably will run into her and you do need to be emotionally prepared for that.

And I would also encourage you. Bring a friend. Well, and also just like be prepared. Like know what you're going to do if you run into them. And have a plan. And have a plan in like a gracious way. Right. Plan for the best version of yourself. That's good.

Plan to say like, like, and if you have anxiety, you can even say like, I hope I'm not ruining this for you. I just really like wanted to like see the music. I hope you're well. And then you can leave. Like whatever. Tip your hat. Yeah.

But know what you're going to say. Know if it's going to happen. And plan to be as nice as possible. And then yeah, I think that you should get to go. I mean, it also feels like you've got. your own stuff going on. You need music to help you. Let's listen, do your thing. Music is for everyone. Just have a plan.

Yeah. And you know what? She has agency. She doesn't have to talk to you. Yeah. She could be like, she could avoid you. I avoid people like it's my job. Sure. You should see me at the Hollywood Farmer's Market, babe. Yeah. Like a pinball machine. Yeah. Oh, nope. Nope. That's not happening. You know, like you just got

kind of. Okay. Next question. Hey, Yossi and Amanda. Love bands playing on the big picture. Thank you so much for listening. I have a question about y'all's opinion on collaborative music habits and relationship. Okay. Well, I think I'm on the record, but keep going. My boyfriend and I are long distance, and early in our relationship, we connected through a joint

music playlist that we both contributed to. We have similar tastes, but we also got to introduce each other to a lot of new music that is personal to us. Put me on to a lot of stuff he listened to in college, in New York, like Block Party, Future Islands, and Pier Obu. Okay, Pier Oboo. And I got to introduce him to local Austin scene bands like the opera and font. Music was a great outlet for learning more about one another.

Although now we watch movies together every weekend to Spark. new conversations. She was like, I listen to the big picture, too. Yeah. I know sharing music has been a thing for as long as we've had physical media to share, mix-sap series and playlists are all just evolutions of the primal urge to share things you love with people you care about. Do you all have any memorable experience about sharing music with past partners slash crushes? Have you noticed any significant changes in the habits of sending music in the age of streaming? This is from Isaac in Texas, who is 25 years old. Okay, so you, church and state, did you ever, you ever like, I really feel like you might love this Taylor Swift song to any of your

boyfriends? Taylor Swift is pretty much exclusively overlapping. I mean, this is how old I am with my current relationship with my husband, who was also, like, very into music and a music journalist. Right. So he was aware of Taylor Swift in her outfit. And he was like smart enough and also friends with John Caramonica. Sure.

So John Caramonica took the two of us to the Red Tour. It was like, it was really a very beautiful thing. So he was, I didn't have to introduce Taylor Swift to him, and he was like up with optimism enough to not neg it. But the fish thing, obviously, you know, I had some fish CDs made for me wherever, but I do have an answer to this, which was my high school boyfriend, in addition to being a fishhead, and very smart, was also an incredibly gifted cellist. And he was in the, like, the U-S symphony orchestra in Atlanta. He was very, very accomplished. And so, and I had, like, some classical music training and some appreciation for it. Okay.

Like, he taught me about a lot of, like, a lot of classical music that I did not know about. Like, you know, like, the Devorzoc Chello Concerto, which is, like, the most famous cello concerto. It's not, like, you know, deep cuts or whatever. But it's amazing and really beautiful. And, like, we would, he would get free symphony tickets, so we would go a lot to the grown-up symphony. So that's not, like, it was never a mixtape situation. I'm sure that I got some. But I don't remember them.

But that was a very cool thing that I got. That's a really good. That's much better, actually, than anything else. Well. But then the new version is that for my 41st birthday, which was my rager, since my 40th birthday, I was, like, on the disabled list. Yeah. We had a party, and Zach made me a playlist. And then he asked friends, including Yassie, to contribute to the Spotify playlist, which is, like, my most treasured possession.

And I do feel like friends should. It's really good. It's so nice. It was also, like, I was very specific with my requests and everyone. We tried to deliver to what you were looking for. You did deliver and sequence it, and it was beautiful. Nick Silvestar also contributed. So that is a good new way to do things for someone.

I love the idea of collaborative playlist. I think it's really sweet. My memorable thing is kind of funny and annoying. I think I just don't remember the good ones because they're good. You know how that is? It's like Tolstoy. Every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. I dated a guy.

and he sent me a song over email and it was the stone roses I want to be adored which obviously I already know about but I was like oh that's cute you know I didn't think anything of it I was just like he wanted me know about this song that's cool and then I was like oh we're sending songs back and forth I'll send him a song that he might think is cool

so we were both DJs at the time we're like so embarrassing well I was going to ask what era is this and when you say he sends you a song is it like an MP3 attached to an email oh my god I know because this is This, I would have been in my like late 20s. Okay. So this is like 2007.

Okay. All right. So pre-Utube, pre-Spotify. Pre-Spotify. Yeah. And I sent him back, well, maybe YouTube was around. I don't remember, but I sent him back 112 only you. Okay.

The real heads will know. Okay. Okay. The one that'll pay for your phone. Mace be the one that'll take you home. Anyways. And he was like, whoa, whoa. This is like, he was like kind of like came for me.

Like I was being too. like I was taking it to see like oh this is like I think you're misreading the really and I was like what I was like I just sent you a cool it's just a fun song but he was like oh but it's like it's about it's like only you I only like you I'm like you sent me a song called I want to be adored I thought we were just sending fun songs and then I was really fucking pissed yeah men just like and then where did it go and then you kept dating him just like briefly and then it like it you know sparked out and then he married a friend of mine okay they have three children and they're very happy and I wish I well that's good Hi, Assy and Amanda. I'm coming up on my 20th high school reunion later this year. Welcome. And it, what is mine? Oh, my, no, no, mine was a couple years ago. This is 20 college. That's okay. It's like same tax bracket, sort of.

And it unsurprisingly has me looking back at Gross Point Blank, my favorite unconventional rom-com. For years, the soundtrack was the emergency CD I kept in my car stereo. I'm curious where this one ranks for you as far as movie soundtracks go. For me, it's near the top. And to this day, when I hear under pressure, I still think about Cusack holding the baby and having a moment of clarity before I think of afterson. Thanks for everything you've done.

book do Skyler from Scranton. Well, you already know for me this is a Godtier soundtrack. Yeah. Absolutely. Peak, huge major. I have, in recent years,

rediscovered the Pete Townsend song, Let My Love Open the Door, Ecolomix, and I can't stop listening to it. I think I a bit overlooked it in the like 90s and early 2000s. Yeah, this is just one of the greatest soundtracks of all time.

Shout out D.V. DeV. DeVicentes, who was the co-screenwriter, I believe, on this movie, and also I was in charge of the music. I see your gross point blank, and I raise you Romeo and Juliet. Well, of course, Romeo and Juliet is the number one best soundtrack of all time. Oh, sorry. I just, you know, that's, listen, some of us were normie kids in the 90s. This is how some of us learned about garbage. It's okay.

It's okay. And that is, I mean, talk show host, radio head, Nelly Hooper Mecks. I think that is both the first time that I learned. about Leonardo DiCaprio and Radiohead in that one shot. Cinema is powerful. Learn about movies. Soundtracks, man. Really sad that we don't really have that anymore.

Isn't that so heartbreaking? I don't know. The Marnie Supreme one's going pretty hard in my house. That's like a score, though. It's true, but it does, like, and it uses a lot of the 80s songs in the score. That's true. But when we do it, it's a combo of Tears for Fears and the score itself. Maybe that's kind of the way going forward is doing some sort of hybrid of that.

like original score and like some songs that sort of like are all thematically connected or whatever. Because I really miss soundtracks. They were so important. They were great. They also used to spend money on them. That's the other issue. Now, now it's just all filler for... Because they would sell. The CDs would sell.

There's no way for them to sell it now. But they would also like, they actually tried. Now, especially the soundtracks of movies geared towards women, which they don't really make it anymore, but when they do, it's like whatever like junk artists they're like trying to promote, you know? It's It's not the quality that you want.

It's not giving. It doesn't have pressure drawn by the specials, for example, like Gross Wayboy does. Bonge, Yossi and Amanda. Yes. Let's get this thing. There is a strange man on Instagram that I know has been using Bange, and I do feel that he stole it from me, but there's no way to prove that, and we're just going to let it go, because it's more Bonge to let these things go.

Longtime listener and paris social friend here. In past episodes, Yossi dropped the lore that X's have written songs about her. My question for you both is, what songs are? do you know that were written about you? And if that's too messy, what songs would you add to a mixtape for someone that you're in the starry-eyed, crazy-swooning, warm liquid goo phase of falling in love with?

Exco-XO-XO-XO-Anie. Annie, this is a nice email that supposes that I've ever dated someone who knew how to write a song. So thank you for thinking that about me. I don't think that anyone that I've ever been romantically involved with has ever composed any sort of music. What about the cellist? No, I think he was playing other great hits.

You know, he was interpreting, but that's different. None of those songs are about me. I think it's okay that none of the fish guys wrote a song about you. I think it's better for the world, honestly. What would writing even constitute in that? But whatever, it's a different podcast. I'm not going to do that. Okay.

I'm not doing this. It's too messy. It's too messy. That's too chaos. Okay. I am a chaotic person, but like, you know, I believe, I believe in the main maintaining a level of privacy. I know that doesn't seem like what I'm about,

but you have to keep a little. Also, I'm dead that her PS was that she never had a song written about her, but an ex recently sent her text that said he's putting a song out that uses her joke. And it's a song that he wrote about being a gold prospector. I'm deceased. I'm like, what are you talking about? And the clown emoji. That's really good. That's honestly better than any answer anything any of us could give.

I'll give you my stare-eyed spoon. list though and if you have any songs. Yeah. I have a million but I'll try to keep it short. Replacements I will dare. Perfect beginning starry I'd swim. If I was your girlfriend by Prince, let's fucking, you know. Lay My Love by Brian

Eno and John Kale, just an absolutely spiritual love song. Fontaine's DC favorite. The cure close to me. Oh, so good. Lightning seeds pure, Nirvana drain you. Dave Matthews band Love or Laydown. You'll have to really feel that one out because I think some

men are made uncomfortable by that song. PJ Harvey, this is love, and Sunny Day Real Estate number 47. Ugh, just so sticky, warm, gooey, falling in love music. I love it. That's beautiful. Thank you.

I don't remember what that feels like, but, you know, me neither, but I like the music. Hey, both, big fan. Mori Yassian, Big Pick, please. I'm trying. Tell her to come to Venice with me again this year. I audibly laughed when I saw the Instapost asking for questions.

I recently broke up with my long-term boyfriend because I finally listened to my friends and realized he sucked. It's hitting harder than expected, even though it was my decision. Any advice for getting over a relationship, even if it was with a loser. Bonus points for anything to do when freezing NYC. P.S., I hope Amanda knows she has a devout queer Gen Z following in Brooklyn. Thank you for keeping that straight Blu-ray DVD man in line.

Love Sam, who is 27. Sam, I love you right back. You know, it's you Blu-ray DVD man. I'm going to use that. Sean Fennessey. New name just drops. Listen, it's true, like, we all boundaries once again. I detect no lies in that sentence.

This sucks. I mean, it's like, I'm glad you did the right thing, Sam. And I think, I mean, this sucks, but time and other activities. I'm going to say a thing you're not going to like, which is the only way out is through. I'm sorry, I know it's a coffee mug. Yeah. I think, like, the only way to get over a thing is. to just surrender to the bad feeling

and do whatever it is that you need to do to really feel that bad feeling. And also, like, again, I'm not... I'm not condoning alcohol use. But if, like, if maybe you need to, maybe you need to, like, get wasted with your friends.

Or, like, maybe you need to watch a bunch of stupid movies, you know? But the truth is, yeah, it's time. I have one more thing to ask, add, and I don't know whether this is helpful, but if you can, after a while, separate what you miss about being in a relationship or being with someone or if you can isolate the feelings just of loss from the feelings of what do you miss about this person? The specific person, yeah.

Because find out what's what, you know? Like, does this person stink? Maybe it'll become a little bit easier. And it's like, it's hard, especially, like, something. are just better with another person. I will also say... Going to the movies. I have...

Well... I mean, I like going alone too, but some... Okay. Listen. Here's a thing. Yeah. I've never watched The Sopranas. Okay.

Because it's not really fun to watch that by yourself. I guess that's true. Or like Game of Thrones. Oh, well, that's just not fun to watch, in my opinion. Here's the thing. It's that you don't know what's fun until you try it. So some things are fun to do with another person. And also, if you learn that, yes, like I am someone who wants to be...

with someone else. I think that's like valuable. Right. And mourning that is as valuable as mourning this particular person. I agree. I do also think that like some things are absolutely awesome to do by yourself. And I say that as someone who lives with three other people and most of the three other men, most of the time, though they don't collect DVDs, thank the Lord. But do you remember that scene? I bet Sam is too young to remember the part in sex in the city where they talk about all their weird single behavior.

Oh, yeah. And Carrie talks about, like, saltine jam sandwiches alone. And it's like, I have so much of that that's just locked away in a box in me. My whole life is not right now. I know. And it's like, obviously, you want, like, a little bit of a medium. But, you know, try to find. I sometimes think I'm like, I don't think anyone else can live here.

Yes. Yeah. I know, it's true. I have my things. So I think, you know, therapy as Tommy is, like, if you can understand at least why you're feeling the way you feel, then that's halfway towards. Totally. So see what you can. Also, we're proud of you for breaking up a loser.

We're proud of you. I have one more thing. Take it or leave it. Throw it out if you don't want it. But I also feel sometimes actually tapping into compassion for that person instead of like, I know it feels easier to just write them off as like a loser or whatever. But like maybe letting go of that sort of negative is almost like a connection back to them. Whereas like if you're just like, nice guy, wish him the best.

or wish them the best, it ironically is so much more freeing because you're no longer like throwing any emotion towards them, you know? That's very evolved and very California of you. I don't know whether I personally could get there, but, you know, whatever helps. Next question. Hello, I'll be spending this February 14th the same way I spend every February 14th cleaning my house and wishing misery and all the happy people in the world. Okay, I love it. Spicy. Only problem, my vacuum cleaner recently broke. There is a stranger on Facebook selling a refurbished high-end brand vacuum.

He put refurbished in quotes for about the same price as a new but low-end brand from Target. When it comes to vacuum cleaners, do you think price or brand matters? Do you think a vacuum should be new or is used okay? Also, keep in mind, I will be considering this a Valentine's Day gift to myself. That may sound kind of sad, but in actuality, it is incredibly sad. But I'm okay. I'm great. I have the living room walls to talk to and podcasts to listen to. I'm doing great.

So Lady Doth protest too much. Thank you for your help with this. miserable Nick Providence, Rhode Island. I think this is a great Valentine's Day gift for yourself. Here's what I feel. I'm like skipping through the...

We're not indulging your... We're all coping in our own ways, and that's fine. Being alone on Valentine's Day is a real who cares. You've emailed me a question about vacuums, and I have a very strong perspective on this. We endeavor to actually solve this problem. Which is like, I think the best case here is a refurbished high-end brand from the manufacturer.

I agree. You need the manufacturer's guarantee on the refurbished, even though they won't let you return it or whatever, but at least once it's a stranger and it's on Facebook and there's no regulation, like, I don't know, vacuums or machines. Are you an engineer? Can you fix it if it goes wrong?

If not, then go for it. If you can, then go for it. If not. Well, I would just piggyback on that to say, I agree with Amanda. That's the best case scenario. If you can't, I will say, I still think you should always go high-end, high-end everything, especially if it's like a very known vacuum brand. Do a little research, hit the Google, hit the wire cutter.

Because often with very high-end vacuum cleaners, even if you don't know how to fix it yourself, there is a place you can take it that for a nominal fee will fix it. And it will still last you way longer than a low-end brand, which is going to fucking crap out on you in like a year. And we'll also work better. This is one thing's where the difference. You deserve a good vacuum. You deserve a clean floor. You need those dust mates taken out. So that's our advice.

What kind of vacuum do you use? I use a Dyson. Okay. Like the cordless one, just because I have to constantly vacuum because of the pet hair. Right. I don't think it's like the best one.

I think of the best one is probably like a canister vacuum. But my house is tiny violin, too big. And I have to go on too many flights of stairs and too much vacuum to have my canister vacuum. I would like to use a Roomba, but we have too many stairs. Yeah.

So we can't do it. So mine's purple, and I don't really know what it is. The cordless stick vacuum from Dyson is quite nice. And it has a little green light that shows you dust. Okay. Oh, this is a good one. Hey, Yossi and Amanda. With the Tamara Davis Dock the Best of Summer on its way sometime soon, we do episodes on bands related to the dock.

And if so, please, please, please do sonic use? That's more of a question for Yassie. But, okay, side question, do you have any kind of tradition at concerts? As a frequent concert goer, I try to buy a band. shirt at every show if given the option. I'd like to know what if you have a must, if you have a similar kind of tradition for shows. Thank you, Taylor. Also, sort of a question for Yassi, because I don't really go to shows that often. Okay, I'll, I can bear the brunt of this question. You often go to shows with loved ones in my life. I do. Yeah. Okay. I was wondering if someone

would be able to squeeze in a, can you do this band? And my hat is off to you that you were able to do that. I think we will do those bands. I don't know when, and I can make no promises. I think the straight DVD collecting man should consider doing an entire episode on music documentaries coming out this year because there's really great ones. He texted me while watching the best summer, which was part of Sundance this year, and liked it very much. He was like, this is the best thing ever. I don't think it has a distributor right now. Right. Yeah. But that's okay.

And do I have a tradition at concerts? Not really, but I love buying things. So I do like to buy merch. Can I plug my merch now? Yeah. I'm wearing, the last concert I went to was my four-year-old son's band concert. And this is, his band is called Candy Freeze, and this is their shirt. And they rip.

Yeah, they're great. He was on guitar and vocals. He took both on. Yeah. Even though that was unexpected. And then he got off the stage and asked when it was his turn again. I know. I was proud of him.

Oh, see. Okay. Hey girls, love the pod. Music has been the obsession of my life for over 20 years. as a custodian, I have the chance to listen to four to six hours of music every day. But since 95% of my favorite artists are lesser-known metal hardcore bands, it is impossible for me to find any common ground with women. Okay, well, I think some women probably listen to those fans, when trying to talk about the number one passion in my life. Some of my favorite artists are the Mars Volta Swans converged to Dillinger's skate plan, neurosis, Kralis, and Norma Jean.

I know women who listen to those. It's okay. We don't have to get into that right now. No, no, no. I, like, I know what you're saying, and I keep reading. Okay. I do love two Lana Del Rey albums. Wonderful. Honeymoon and Norman fucking Rockwell. Okay, not the correct ones. But I have never heard a single Taylor Swift song in my life. That's fine. I have no knowledge of any other popular music. And I tried to listen to that geese album, but it was incredibly boring and lacking musical creativity. Okay, we don't have to. So I had to stop and cleanse my brain with Cassandra Gemini by the Mars Volta. The way I would say this on a date would be, I did not connect with the geese album. That's good. That's a nice reframe. I know that none of this is that serious and everyone enjoys different types of music for different reasons. but do you have any ideas of how I could form some connection on a date when I have no knowledge of popular music and the other person has no knowledge of the biggest passion of my life, one in which again I spend four to six hours a day immersing myself in. And for context, I'm a 36-year-old straight man using the dating apps, and I can't go to shows because I have epilepsy.

Thanks, see you in hell, Nicholas Van Orton, not my real name. Okay, I'm just going to say one thing. Yeah, I think Nicholas Van Orton is the name character in the game, the David Fenture film, sorry, Michael. Incredible. One of my favorite movies. So there you go. Talk about David Fincher films, if that's your intended reference.

I was going to say, have you not read any books? Have you seen any television programs? Have we seen a film? Have we thought about philosophy? Do we have ideas about fate? God. There's a lot of topics of conversation to connect over. Also, like, four to six hours of music every day.

Yeah. That's a lot of time spent, though. Sure. So I understand. So this is about, I mean, there are two questions here, right? their number one, it's like how much of like a relationship needs to be built on a shared passion and mutual interest. And then also just, you know, had a date in 2026. I don't really know how to do the latter one.

It seems pretty hard. Yeah, me either. I don't think it's that hard to listen to a Taylor Swift song, but also if you're not interested, I honestly don't think that you should bother. And I don't think that, and if like the other person needs you to have listened to a Taylor Swift album to be interesting on a date, then you're not on a. good date. That said, on a dating app, how are you supposed to screen for this? And if you're the guy being like, I don't care about Taylor Swift on a dating app, like that seems aggressive and annoying and not even what you're putting out with this email. And we're not saying you're doing that. So, because it didn't seem like you knew how to recondectualize your feelings about geese.

I do. I think you're right that you can have other shared passions or other, you just talk about other things. It doesn't all have to be based on mutual interest. This is very, high fidelity the film. It's very like it's not what you're like but what you like. But actually it is what you're like and not as much what you like. Right. Listen, I think the right woman will be like, wow, that's so cool that you're so passionate about jawbreaker, Zach Barron. I would love to marry you.

And that is what happened with Amanda Dobbins and they have two beautiful children. So just know there's precedent for this. Yeah. Also, I mean, we have some middle ground. It's like, I don't really know there are your right women who like geese, but there's a lot of women who like geese. There's a lot of women like all these bands. But also, you don't have to find a woman. That's what we're saying. You also, you don't have to find yourself. Yes. You don't have to find another person who has the exact same interests. I mean, it does mean that you have to find other things to talk about. Maybe there's also embedded in here, like, you know, a wish to find someone to talk about music with. But. you can't go to shows, so you kind of like can't find your community that way. Yeah. So I think we probably have two things to solve for here, which is like finding your music buds, right. Finding people that, and you should just find the people who also like all of these bands,

half of which I've heard. I would love to interest you to Reddit. Right. But like, but then actually like making friends and then, you know, if you can't go to shows, which many people can, you can find other ways to bond over that. And then how do you just? had you go on a date with someone, which is hard. I don't really know how you go on dates.

I don't know. Those apps are an absolute mystery to me. I'm like, I'll just look at five pictures in like two sentences and be like, yes. Right. So what are other places to meet people? What aren't shows that are like music-ish to meet people? The record store? That's great.

There you go. I mean, don't be creepy, but it seems like there's, you know, I don't know. Yeah. What else? Anything else? Merch table? Well, you'd have to be at a show. Yeah.

Okay, that's tough. Listen, what I'm hearing is that you are a cool guy with cool tastes, but perhaps you would benefit from expanding your interests beyond these tastes and meet people that way. And listen, if Nicholas Manorring is the game reference, which is like a lesser fincher than letterbox, my mind. guy, you know? Totally. Like, explore the movie thing and rep film, screenings. And there's, like, a whole community that there is another way. And then from there, I think that we just don't have to marry, like, finding a music friend and finding someone to date in the same thing. Like, we can, we can look for both, but they don't have to be in one person. Yeah, and that's why we have friends. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, both. Love both the pods. Thank you. My question is

about knowing when to settle down and have kids. Oh, boy. I'm 29 and have been with my boyfriend for seven years. We're incredibly happy having moved in with each other over a year ago and have great independent lives outside of what we have together. Okay, A plus. Yeah. Nicholas, at this, Nicholas Van Orden. I am starting to have feelings that I'm falling behind. I live in London. Bring the Big Pick back to it for an event at the Prince Charles Cinema, please. I'd love to. Prince Charles Cinema rules forever. We love the cinema. But everyone I know back home in New Zealand are marrying and having children and people at my work are not marrying and having kids. I love my life. We travel for long periods and go on spontaneous nights out, but I worry that I'm losing time to

have children. We are definitely on the same page about it. Not yet, but I still feel unsure. We'll have both of your views on this age-old question. The way that when I- Megan, you're thriving. I know. Megan, you're doing it so right. You're doing it the most right in the world. When I read the 29, yeah. I was like, I'm going to put all the rocks in the pockets and walk into the ocean bit. What are you talking about? One thing I have observed, so this person lives in London and is also back from New Zealand. It's a geographic thing. Well, so both countries have better better social support systems than we have here in the United States. And so people do tend to just have children earlier. Totally. I mean, I don't know much about New Zealand, respectfully.

But I know in London, even though it is like a city, I think, on par with L.A. and New York in terms of like being like a huge city in cosmopolitan, whatever. People tend to marry and have children much younger there than they do in L.A. and New York. And I think it is because of the social system. But I'm sure it feels a type of way, you know. So I think particularly in the U.S. because we have no paid leave, like no, you know, the health care system is so messed up. It's so hard to have a child that those who can't, like people do tend to wait a little bit later. But there are a lot of reasons. Who cares? Whatever.

29. You have all the time in the world. Yeah. Like emotionally and biologically, by the way. Don't let them. Totally. Don't let them. I mean. Claire Dinsbubb. Listen, that's true.

Awesome. I had my kids at 37 and 40. Yeah. So here's my real advice as a childless woman. If your reasons are keeping up with the Joneses or feeling pressure or should, then, like, throw that in the trash, who cares? That's nothing to do anything in your life about. If you're actually feeling like losing time is about, like, you want to be a younger mother. Like, that's a thing, you know?

Yeah. You want, I don't know, like, there's various reasons, I think. to have children at various times in your life. And like if you actually think that you want it for a reason that is valid about how your life you want your life to play out, maybe just let yourself think about it. Sit with your husband and be like, okay, if we have kids now, here's what our next 18 years of our life looks like. Do we want to do that now?

Do we want to put it off for five years? And again, as someone absolutely deeply childless, I think I can ask you, sounds like from all my friends, like, you're never ready, ready. It's just like you just do it and then it happens. Yeah. And or in my case, if you are ready, then you're like, oh, crap, it doesn't happen. And then you did like lots of IVF for a while, which, by the way, the IVS was not because I was older. It was because of other issues that I had. So again, you have all the time in the world. It's a crazy decision to make. You're never like, I'm totally ready. But I think if you know where you are and what you want, you are in a better position than 95% of people. And,

And keep following it. And, like, also, your life sounds really awesome. I was going to say. Yeah. We travel. Feel good about yourself. Yeah. You're doing great, Megan.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Hi, Yossi and Amanda. As a long time listener of the big picture, I was so thankful to be introduced to Yossi. Oh, my God, thank you so much on the podcast. On the podcast, on the podcast, and Peru. Truly inspirational work you two are bringing to the ring her podcast network.

As a hashtag Dob mob enthusiast, I can't thank Yossi enough for giving Amanda a platform on which she can answer for the crimes the big pick has committed against my dating life. I 29 female love movies. I love spending my evenings with my girlfriends watching movies and then discussing those movies over dinner. I have a letterbox account, but I use my laptop to access it and do not keep the app download it on my phone. That's good, healthy boundaries. Movies are important to me, but they are definitely not my entire personality. Unfortunately, whenever the topic of movies comes up on a date, I have found that men who also like movies, okay, here we fucking go, and listen to the pod, feel the need to physically pull out their phones, show me their letterbox top four, and tell me in depth about their physical media collection. Yes, I blame Sean. What was this name? I'm dead. DV. Straight DVD man. Straight DVD man. I guess my question is, damn, Sean catching a lot of strays on this random bandsplain listener mailback. I guess my question is how do I stop this phenomenon? Reason dates have made me weary of even bringing up the topic of movies, lest I be forced to watch Pulp Fiction while he quotes Samuel L. Jackson. Yeah. A love of movies is not the most important.

thing I look for in a relationship, but Joe Fox's idea of drinks or dinner or a movie for as long as we both shall live has always appealed to me. Thank you for both keeping me entertained on my commute to work. This is very nice. It's from Marie. Thank you, Marie. Marie, I don't relate to the specificity of the letterbox details of your questions, but otherwise, we've all been there. Like, I see you, sister, I'm with you. I feel like all of my, and I feel like I talk about this on the big picture, that especially college, but also like early dating, was just about men who were very excited about what they were interested in. And they were like, no, really. But like, have you read InfinitejS? Like, no, really. But, like, have you watched

the last waltz? Like, we have to watch the last waltz, like, again. And listen, the last waltz is great. But, like, I don't need another man telling me it's Thanksgiving. And we got to watch the last waltz, okay? I know. That's, it's, it's good. So this is like an inherent. tendency among men is what I found. They're hunter gatherers and they're no longer able to go kill a deer and bring it home for us. So what they do instead is go out and tell you about a film or music you already know about. Yeah. They've been doing this since the beginning of time. Yeah. Or if you don't already know about it, they are just certain that you're going to love it and they're like, no, no, no, now we're going to watch all of it together. And you're like pretty clear on the fact that you're not interested

and they just keep going and they're like, no, no, no, no, but if we watch one more Lord of the Rings or whatever. And I'm just like, I, you know. I personally like Lord of them. Listen, people, it's, you know, it varies. Everyone, men and women have all different types of interests and all different types of things. But the constitutional inability for a man to stop himself from being like, no, no, no, no. And like the letter box detail, keep the phone in the pocket. You know, and that's something that we can work on on our end.

Like, that's some big pick advocacy that I can take on. You're telling the nice men. Keep, don't bring the letterbox out. The other thing, listen, Letterbox doesn't have a messaging function, so it can't actually function as a dating app on its own. And so then these guys, they don't have an outlet within the app,

so they've just got to take their. Yeah. So maybe we could also work with Letterbox on that. Marie, here's what I would say. Yeah. Because like, hashtag dudes rock, okay? I would just like, let's, like, maybe it would help to be a bit more compassionate. I mean, I think you can totally tell the difference between a guy who's, like, coming to

fucking tell you what's up, and you're like, can I have the check please? And a guy who's just, like, kind of really overly enthusiastic and wants to impress you, you know? That's true. And, like, it just so happens that you kind of are cut above in the cinephile space, which is very cool. So I feel like it's maybe like not immediately putting them all into the same bucket and trying to be a little more open-minded to see like, is this guy just kind of fumbling because he's just trying to like connect with me and be enthusiastic and it's coming off as mansplaining, but that's not his energy. Because I feel like you can tell the difference. Right. Or like is he a little bit nervous. Everybody is going to show off.

Everyone peacocks a little bit at the beginning. That's right. You know, we also, you know, my husband and I, like much of our dating was at press screenings. because we both had access to these free screenings. So we did have a lot of Oprah labbing interests, and we figured out pretty quickly that what we shared was what we shared and everything else. We didn't need to really do this exchange,

where it's like, no, no, no, really, I'm going to make you like this. So if you get a good vibe from someone, even if they're trying a little hard, you can strike the right balance over time. That's, I think. I really think it's like, it's not what you do, but how and why you do it.

So, like, there will be versions of this that are, like, absolutely the fuck not. And they're the vision. And then we're like, okay, like, I'm – because it won't last. Like, it's, like, past the first couple of dates, they'll feel comfortable. They don't need to impress you. And if it does last, then you know that you're on your way. I don't want Marie to feel alone here. Like, I recognize this deep in my soul.

Oh, same, babe. Do you know how many men I'm trying to, like, explain Dinosaur Jr. to me? And I'm like – I can't imagine being in. Yeah. I'm like, there's a four-hour podcast I made on it. Which, you know, it sucks because I need, I like, but men need to feel like, you know, they get dopamine from doing things for us, whether it's showing you a thing or hanging a shelf. Perhaps you could redirect their attention to be like, I need some light carpentry done in my house.

Would you like to come do that? Yeah. Or just they can go make a friend. I think what we're finding here is that there are a lot of friends. Like there are a lot of men who need a friend to talk about their shared enthusiasms with. Men need to friends max is what they need to. to be doing, instead of doing whatever maxing it is they're doing here and mugging, they're being framed-mogged, you know, out in these streets. And then we find a healthy balance in our relationships.

It's beautiful. That's beautiful. I think that's a great way to close out. I think we solved everything. We've fixed the world, I think, for everybody. Thank you guys so much again for sending in your questions. Please stick around for my interview with Barry Johnson of Joyce Manor right after this. You guys, it is my absolute pleasure and honor to be joined by the one and only Beryl Johnson of Joyce Manor, Barry Johnson, as he's known to his friends and family. How's it going? Barry is not short for anything. It's not. People sometimes think it's like Bartholomew.

Right. But that's Bart, obviously. Sure. Barry is just Barry. I learned just five minutes ago as we were getting these gorgeous beverages that you are a first generation immigrant child. Yeah, straight up. that your parents are from Manchester. The hair is giving.

Yeah. And also Barry. It's like, does your mom ever call you Baz? All my dad's friends. Really? So, yeah, my dad moved to California and hung out with only British people. So that's what I'd like to do, too. Yeah, exactly.

So all his friends were these British guys, and they all call me Bazzer. Amazing. When you go to Manchester, does like the whole fam come out? I'm not super close with my dad but when I was a kid I used to go visit his mom every now and then and so I would spend like three weeks like having a British childhood

so I'd play like soccer in the streets with kids and stuff I had like a different friend group over there Do you feel like it affected your music making? I mean yeah like especially like my dad's friend Sean Daly was like super into like Stone Roses, Happy Mondays Morrissey solo and stuff so he lived in a trailer in Lomita

and he was really He was just like a, this is British redneck that kind of look like Billy Idol. Incredible. He was amazing. He was like hilarious and like super funny, really fun, like a infectious person. Just a real bloke. And just with like great music taste, you know. And so, yeah, we would just put on like Morrissey solo and he would like kind of act it out.

You'd like roll around his trailer all hammered. It was amazing. Yeah, it was like one of the best ones ever seen in my life. Uncle Sean, man. Yeah, totally. Sean Daly. Love Sean Daly. We're both from the same place.

Torrance. Torrance, California, shout out. I have a little more of a rose-colored glasses view of Torrance. Actually, I get asked, I'm just going to say a lot, but that's a bit of an exaggeration. I get asked often, like, oh, did you guys know each other growing up? And I'm like, well, first of all, I'm quite a bit older than you guys. Not quite a bit, but in- Yeah, you're like three or four years.

Four years. So it's exactly enough that even if we did go to the same high school, which we didn't, because I went to South. No. Where did you go? I went to West. We went to West, yeah. So we wouldn't have known each other. And also I moved away after freshman year.

There you go. Yeah. So my love of Torrance is kind of like preserved in amber of like being 14 years old and like walking to Rat Beach with my friends and going to LBJ, LBJ Jr. for those not in the know. But I wanted to write away before we even talk about your new album, which I know that's why you're here. But first we're going to talk about these disparaging comments. Yeah. You made about Torrance in the Los Angeles Times, the paper of record. Wow.

I don't have that much love for Torrance. I like things about it. I think it's got a lot of problems. It's haunted and weird. Which you know what fair. It is kind of haunted and weird. Super haunted and weird. Yeah.

I have friends in San Pedro and they have a term called Torrance Weird about people who are from Torrance. Oh, okay, San Pedro. I know, I know. There are a specific brand of weird. And I know, like, I mean, I know people like my mom's friends that went to high school in Torrance who, like, are fully Torrance weird. Yeah.

And like in the Red Cross documentary, to talk about that where it has to do with like the planes flying overhead or something? Oh, it's like caused brain damage. It's caused brain damage. That's why I'm this way. And there's all these refineries and torrents. And so I think like, yeah, we have like a specific kind of

combination of a few things of like this like sleepy shut off suburban thing and brain damage. I also think like this is going to be so uninteresting for like the 900,000 people who, that's me being really generous about how many people listen to Mainzloid. but like the 1% of people listening that said even know what Torrance is or where it is. But when I was thinking about this because I read your quote, I was like, oh, Torrance specifically, because the whole South Bay is kind of weird. Like, it's not L.A. No. It's an Orange County. It's like the secret third thing in between. Exactly. But also Torrance in particular is like wedged between like extreme wealth and not extreme wealth and kind of like within the city has both.

Yeah. Which is sort of an interesting vibe. It was a product of white flight, you know? Yeah. So it has this, like, weird kind of racist thing going on. It's really anti-fun. Well, yeah. If you're walking around in Torrance, people look at you, like, you're, like, causing trouble.

People are always like, oh, did you go to shows? And I'm like, not really, because the only shows I remember going to were in people's backyards. Like, I don't remember there being much by the way of venues. No. It's funny because, yeah, like, you watch, like, the decline of Western civilization. Sure. Some of that stuff is in, like, Redondo and Toronto. Yeah.

It's like the Fleetwood, maybe? The Fleetwood, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so there was that at that time and like, you know, the church with her quick black flag and stuff. So there was, but then around, yeah, our time in like the late 90s, you had like the PCH club, which is not in Torrance, but it's sort of, it was like Wilmington or whatever. But yeah, there's almost no clubs. Yeah, I wonder if it's because I'm researching the germs right now. So a lot of that Fleetwood era like Black Flag and like the kind of infringement of a. suburban hardcore into the punk scene.

They would play at like Alpine Village. Yeah. Oh yeah, Alpine Village. In joints. But because they were so gnarly, I think like maybe that had something to do with them not allowing. Because those people, I mean, it was always cops. It was always crazy fights. These were like, you know, testosteroneed out jocks that had kind of like heard that punk was a cool place to wail on people.

Yeah, stab somebody. Yeah. And so that might have something to do with the lack of scene of actual infrastructure for bands. Yeah, and I think just like Torrance just decided it was like it's just like it's just going to like cause like trouble. Yeah. It's like it's an invitation for trouble to have like rock concerts. Totally. And like we don't want that.

This is a family friendly place. Thanks a lot. It's going to bring. Yeah. So they just got rid of like live music in general. You know, there was really nowhere to even go see like a big like heavy metal band. Yeah, yeah. Like Slayer would play like in Long Beach.

Like your Inglewood maybe. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But they just didn't want it for Torrance. No, it's true. Like, again, the only shows I really remember seeing our backyard, like, the deviates would play house parties. Yeah, or Susie's, it's a bar. Yeah.

Yeah, so. I was 14 when I later, or 15. Yeah, there was nothing like that. Like, Orange County had, like, chain reaction. Right. And, you know, in, like, if you were kind of like Thousand Oaks area, you had the Cobal Cafe. And there was these places where, like, touring bands would, smaller touring bands would play. Yeah.

You know, and, yeah, torrents didn't have it. And it was like, I was like I was going to say. It's, like, kind of insurmountable to drive for. 45 minutes, A, when you don't have a driver's license. Yeah, right. You know, or like you're telling your parents, like, yeah, I'm going to L.A. for the night on a Tuesday. Like, they'd be like, no, you're the fuck, you're not.

My immigrant parents, not from Manchester. I mean, Ron saying, absolutely not. But then, so you started playing music. You were in a thrash band, I read. Or is that an incorrect statement? I think that's kind of incorrect. Okay, well. I can set the record straight, though.

Please do. It was in a piece I read about your band. Okay, first band that I was in was a ska punk band. That sounded exactly like Auburge and Ivy. Hell yeah. Exactly like Oppers Schnevy. Shout out of Jesse Michaels. Shout out Jesse Michaels.

And how old were you? I was 16 slash, it was about 17. Okay. And that was kind of the music that you were more drawn to than. You know, it's so weird. It's just I made friends with this guy Rick Quill, and he was good at guitar and was kind of in the street punk scene. of like backyard shows happening in like Compton. And he had a street punk band that would play shows.

And he liked, like, he liked punk, but he was like, cool with Scott Punk. He's like, the specials are cool, op-ivie's cool, you know, left over crack is cool. Right. But that's it. And then I was like, well, he's not wrong. Yeah, I know. And he's like, that other stuff is lame. And so he was like, let's start like a minor.

I was. I was into all that. I actually, loki, I was also going to see the awkward bats. They're still great. Shout out Travis Barker. Yeah. So he's like, let's start like a minor key ska band. And he was kind of like, I can already like book as a show.

I'll get us on shows. And so that was super motivating. I was like, that sounds fun. Yeah. Play a show. Was he older? Younger, actually. He's a year younger than me.

But he was just well connected and just really likable, charismatic dude. What was this band called? Kid Grusome. It's terrible. Amazing. It was only like six or seven months, but we played like a dozen shows. This is my first shows. I ever played.

That's such a, what an incredible. entry point into playing music where you're like already have a guy that can book you shows. Yeah, because I wasn't really connected like that as far as like, you know, if I was going to see a show, a chain reaction, I didn't know anyone who could get us a show there. Right. But this dude was like, he was already playing shows. And yeah, he was like, let's start a band. Like, I know this guy who does Scott shows, like, well, I'll get us a show.

Did you play with anyone iconic, like voodoo glow skulls or anyone? No, nobody like that. I'm going to get this band called Ivy, which is weird because Operation Ivy, but there was a band called Ivy. Maybe an homage. The guitar player was named Porno. Hell yeah. It's awesome, right?

It's so cool. It's perfect. Porno. What transpired that this band fell apart? I got bored of it, honestly, and I kind of tried to, I was pretty into, like, getting, you know, like I said, like, I wasn't, like, as Apparach and I was a super fan. It was just, like, I was given kind of an assignment. Right. Let's start this kind of band.

And I was like, I could probably do that. And you were kind of coming, and I, again, you can set the record straight if these are incorrect. One of your entry points, I just felt a lot of kinship was nervous. honor, right? Oh, as a kid for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that was, I was obsessed. And this was like, were you like a kid kid kid? Was it like when it was contemporaneously happening? Yes, I remember

when Kirkobane died. Incredible. I mean, me too, obviously. Yeah, yeah. So I was born 86. So I don't really remember when they broke, but I remember like watching the In Bloom video as a little kid, you know? Sure. And at the same time as like the November rain video. It's exactly

right. Yeah. I think a lot of people forget that, that those two things were like just as big at the same time. Yeah, Madonna like a prayer. Like, that was kind of like my... That was my other thing I was going to bring up. I was like, fucking Barry is a goddamn real one with Madonna like a prayer.

That's my guy. Yeah, I just remember being like in a trance. Why have you guys never covered it? Why are you taking this away from me? Have you ever heard the H2O cover of it? I think H2O cover. Stop. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, Toby. That's why I don't do it. There's another Madonna song you could do. We can rifle through. Yeah. Oh, no, I love Madonna so much. Me too. Yeah.

Damn. What was it about like a prayer that sort of resonated with you? I didn't know at the time at all. I just like, the video is super intense. It's kind of emo. The song? Yeah. Just love it.

Of all the Madonna songs, it isn't like, like the way it builds and stuff. I could see it having like some emo feel to it, you know? Yeah, you could micam it up. Yeah, you could totally mic up it up. Yeah, I could totally hear that. It's an incredible video too. Yeah, it's amazing. Quite confusing to it.

young child. All of the H1NTV was confusing to the child. It was all so weird. And I just thought it was over my head and kind of deep and I don't understand it. But then you go back and watch like a, I don't know. Yeah, you go back and watch a lot of those videos and it's nonsense. No, like a prayer is the level of transgression and the like a prayer video for the time. If you go back, it's mind-blowing.

Like she was really that fucking bitch, you know, like discussing religion, race. Like I'm putting it all in this like really like in your face way in the video. Yeah. burning crosses. Like they let that be on MTV, like full-on crosses on fire. Honestly, the video could have been just like a white wall with just the song playing and I would have loved it. Just because the song is so beautiful.

But yeah, the perfect combo is a great, great video so intense. So this is sort of your musical backdrop as a child. You've got Nirvana, you've got Madonna. Yeah, just whatever's on TV. Yeah. For me, Nirvana was absolutely the gateway drug. Like it was like, what the fuck is this? This is the coolest and most amazing thing I've ever.

I mean, it was a little bit Red Hot Jolie published for me because that was the first time I heard, like, aggressive guitar music. Yeah. But Nirvana had this whole other thing to it, and it brought me down rabbit holes. Like, I was, like, starting to, like, look to see what they were into, or, like, what scenes were just much harder back then, obviously. That's what I was going to say. You were just looking for scraps everywhere. Yeah, liner notes.

Flipping through magazines. Exactly. Like, going to Go Boy Records. Shout out. Is it still there? No. None of them are there. Fucking rest in peace.

Asking, getting zines. Like, for me, I bought famously the book. I say famously, but if you listen to this pod, it's called Route 666 on the Road to Nirvana by Gina Arnold. I never read it. Oh, my God. It's so good. I'll get you a copy. Cool.

But basically, I just bought it because I was 12 years old and obsessed with Nirvana. I didn't know anything about what it was about. And it ended up being about this incredible journalist, Gina Arnold, kind of through her own experience, talking about her ascent through punk and Indian, like, hardcore, and then also painting the picture of, like, how all these bands set the stage for Nirvana to blow up. So it's like bands I'd never heard of, and I'm like, Husker Do? Okay, saved up allowance money, went and bought it.

Fugazi, like, I'm 12, you know? Daniel Johnston. It blew my mind. And I wouldn't, like, how was a 12-year-old going to hear about Husker do? No, totally. Older people maybe, but. Exactly. Yeah.

If you were on the college rock thing, like, in the 80s. But yeah, he definitely, like, synthesized all that stuff into, like, just did it so well. Yeah. Like, did Pixies or, you know, Husker Doer took from, like, meat puppets and all that kind of SST, like, Sonic U.S.S.T. Like, Sonic U.S. stuff. But, like, yeah, I did something really special with it. Do you remember the first band you kind of got into that was, like, you were, like, almost age-appropriate enough to, like, go see them play? Or they were, like, contemporary, but not huge?

Do you know what I mean? Like, for me it was Blink 182. Sure, sure, yeah. But, like, what was that banned for you? So, yeah, like, throughout the childhood, I was really into, like, Nirvana, smashing pumpkins, the breeders, that kind of stuff. Like, just that was stuff that you would see on MTV that was kind of edgy or whatever. I just, I, like, gravitated towards that. And then I had a friend Ben Turk, and he had an older brother named Chris Turk who was, like, quite a few years older than us.

And he was, like, a punker. Yeah. He, like, stickers all over his room. He like, listen to music loud. He was like, he's a punker. And I was, like, obsessed with him. I thought he was so cool. And he was really nice to me, and he would let me come, like, sit in his room.

And he would tell me about punk. He would tell me about, like, going to, like, Union 13 and stuff. And, like, he got me into AFI. And this would have been, like, pre, like, makeup Davy. So it was, like, they were, like, a pretty small band at that time. That was the only AIFI album I ever really got into. to was answer that and stay fashionable, which I think is the first one. First one, yeah.

That's like, it's two-minute punk songs. Yeah, produced by Tim Armstrong. Yeah. Mom will let me get a Mohawk. Yeah, exactly. So I was really into that, like that era, AFI, and that was the first band that I saw AFI, sick of it all, Hot Water Music at the Ventura Theater in Ventura. It's quite a fucking trip.

Yeah, my stepdad drove me and my friend Scott out there. Yeah, it was really, it was, I wouldn't even, it was actually insanely fun, but. But it was pretty scary. We were in middle school. Yeah. I don't know what Ventura is like now. But when we were growing up, it was quite intensely dodgy. There was a really strong skinhead contingent.

Oh, I could totally see that. Yeah. Up through, like, up through when I was in college, because I went to college in Santa Barbara. And I hope we'd go down there to, like, go to shows or go thrifting. And there was, like, a pretty intense. Again, much like everywhere in California back then, it was like wherever there's a strong skinhead contingent, there's also a lot of ethnic groups. Like there was lots of Latino and Asian people.

So there was a beautiful tension. Yeah. That was quite scary to a 17-year-old. Yeah. I mean, that whole world was such a, like, I was so little, and it was everyone was so big. But I was like, I went to a rock concert, and it didn't feel like a rock concert. It was like a club show for, like, hardcore bands, essentially at the time. Yeah.

And it was really fun. I didn't like a mosh or anything. It was too little. You're just standing in the back. Yeah. There's like a tiered floor. the pit and I was like on the other side of a railing and the pit was in front of me, like, looking at the pit and I was like, that's crazy.

Were you not tall yet? I was not tall at all. I didn't get tall until junior of high school. I was 5'2 and then over the summer I became like six foot and people like didn't recognize me and were kind of like, like would laugh in my face when they figured out who I was. I'm so interested in this given the like great weight that height has with men, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you feel like that, like, impacted your personality?

Like, mostly being formed as a short guy and then all of a sudden being a tall guy? 100%. I had, like, a little guy personality. Yeah. I was like, I'm silly. Like a silly little guy, you know? And then when I was, like, 16, 17, kind of like went through puberty late. Yeah.

Late Bloomer and got really tall. And then it looked weird. It looked really weird. Like gangly. Super ganglily. Yeah. Like baby deer. Just kind of, didn't know how to, like, really.

Didn't know how to be tall. Your new long rims. Yeah. Yeah. So didn't really kind of settle into it until I was like 22, 23. Right. And then I was like, all right, I got this. All right, I'm tall guy now.

I'm tall now. Okay, so you're seeing AFI. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw AIFI. It was amazing. I later talked to my friend Eddie who put that show on. And he told me that he was like, Davey used to settle the shows still. Wow.

And he would be in like full plethe with like his makeup all smeared, like, settling, like talking back end and everything. That's awesome. I didn't see any of that, obviously, but my friend told me about it later. We love David Havoc. David Havoc has a Ramon's cover band. He does. Straight Edge Ramones cover band.

Yeah, it's very cool. That's super cool, yeah. I've never met him. I've met him. He's very nice. Yeah. Yeah. No, this is a Matt quote, Matt Ebert.

Yeah, yeah. I can speak to it probably. He said, I for years wanted to play a show in Torrance, where we're actually from, but I just don't know how it ever could or would, so I've kind of thought about it. Well, guess what? A man DM'd me. Oh my gosh. And said, I want to book Joyce Manor to play in Torrance.

Ask them if they ever want to play. And then I was like, should we make a little Torrance Music Festival? I would be totally into it. Do you have like a mini Joyce Manor, Yossi Salik? Michelle Kwan, Torrance Music Festival? Totally. Okay, so I was out in these streets, and by these streets, I mean something in the way music festival in Boston, which was wonderful, shout out, run for cover records.

And I won't name names, but a person came to me with some gossip about Joyce Manor. to get me, of all people, to confirm or deny. And they said, I heard that actually Joyce Manor is from Pallas Verdes. And they lie about being contours. And I was like, why would they do that? And he was like, I don't know, because like, because Pallis Pallis is posh. And I was like, well, respectfully, nobody on earth knows what those places are. So what would be the end game?

But I was like, well, let's confront this head on. Yeah, no, let's get into it. So the only member of Joyce Manor that ever lived in Palis Verdes was Matt. And Matt's parents inherited a house up there. And after he graduated high school, they fixed it up and sold it. And they live in San Pedro now. So Matt did go to high school in PV. Okay.

But never lied about it. He never lied about it. No. But the band is from Torrance because there's another kind of like half truth there because I didn't live in Torrance when Joyce Farrant started. lived in Long Beach. Oh, you had already moved on Long Beach. I'd already moved, yeah, but I, but we practiced in Torrance.

Yeah. What doesn't, you're from there? We're from there. We're from there. Chase Canobie is from there. He's, he's extremely trans. He's the most Torrance member. And he lived there at the time.

And he's, yeah, born and raised in Torrance. I just thought it was really funny because I was saying to you all you were getting coffee that people are extremely weird about your band. Yeah. And this was part of my thought process about why people are extremely weird about your band. It's just like so funny to me in like 20, 26 that we're, like still being like, oh, they're posers. Yeah.

They're not from Torrance. Like, who cares? That is such a minor, you know. Yeah. It's also, it's not a place that it's not like, oh, I'm from Seattle during the 90s grunge, you know? Nobody cares about Torrance except for literally me and you. Yeah, I mean.

And Chase. Yeah, I went to high school there. I've never lived in Torrance. Matt, I think Matt was born there, and I think he might have lived in Torrance before his parents inherited the spot in PV. But you didn't live there when you went to high school. No, I lived in La Mita. We used my grandparents' address.

That's even more, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know how to say it, but that's like, that's like even realer than being from North. I kind of agree with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I would have gone to L.A. school district. It's this school called Fleming. Yeah. And so my mom wanted me to go to a better school, so it would drive me 20 minutes each way.

All right. Debunked. That must have been hard to hang out, though, after school. Yeah, I had different friends in LaMita. Yeah, like your neighborhood friends. Yeah, like used to escape. with like mostly Mexican dudes that lived near me, yeah.

You ever get into music through skate videos? Yeah, oh yeah. We just did it. I just saw you at Jerry Sue. Yeah, we just did it. I'm a huge Jerry Sue fan. Me too.

Yeah, yeah. It's my guy. I love, yeah, he skates that Cass McComb's song, Sacred Heart. I love that song. It's a very Jerry move. Although, as he told me on the episode,

it wasn't him? They don't pick the songs. I know a lot of times. It's very rare for skaters to pick their own songs. He didn't pick those songs? That blows my mind. I think they approve them Or sometimes not.

Like he told me some stories or like sometimes people will try to fight against it and like the editor will be like don't do this to me. Like we need to put this song here. Right. I think what it is is like it's such a tight knit production. You know, so it's like it's not like the guy

that's cutting the video isn't like your fucking friend that doesn't know you well. So like I assume they're choosing based on your persona and your skating style. Again, we kind of get into it in the skater. Sure, sure. But yeah. I got to watch that.

You were being put on to music through the. these skate videos. Big time. I kind of forgot about that honestly. Yeah, but like the zero videos and toy machine

videos. Totally. Like the, yeah, 100%. They all did. I mean, we talked about it. I don't want to

retread our skate video thing, but if you guys want to watch it. A lot of, like some videos, like, were more kind of rap heavy and,

like that stuff didn't really permeate. It didn't permeate with me as much, yeah, like, like some, some of it, but yeah,

any kind of anything punk, you know? Yeah, you were down. Okay, so the Op Ivy inspired ska punk band

has fallen apart you're over it six or seven months into it yeah you've moved on I was over it yeah so then I started a band with Matt

and it wasn't Joyce Manor it was not it's called the English Work Standard yeah incredible incredible not a bad name

I was not I was not prepared I wasn't prepared for the length of the the English work standard yeah it was that time sure yeah

yeah what did that band sound like can we hear it is there other revenants on the internet please don't but yeah you can um

It was ambitious. They still had scoffords, because that's what I was the conditioned to do that. But a little more kind of like maybe sass going on. Okay. I was like girl jeans happening and stuff. Is it because you got tall and sassy? Maybe.

Yeah, I was really tall and skinny, and I was kind of like, who else is tall and skinny? I was like, Blood Brothers, they're pretty skinny. Totally. Let's try that. Yeah, this doesn't listen to a lot at the drive-in and stuff. But not, I couldn't, like, play really well. So it was kind of like, I'm not sure what it sounded like.

It was something. What then what led back to like being like, okay, we're just going to do like a kind of a pop punk band? Yeah. I don't know. Is pop punk like emo where you're like not allowed to say? No. I think we started. We consciously started the pop punk band.

Yeah, yeah. Were there like influences that were happening that you were like, oh, we can do this? Is it more like you just said like that one was too ambitious? Like let's do something easier that we can like actually with our skill set play? I couldn't sing, really. So, like, when I started the band, it was very, like, monotone, you know, like, it was, I was almost, like, rapping. Seriously, it's kind of spoken word.

That was kind of a big thing in that era. It was a big thing that time. I was talk singing. Yeah. And, yeah, it's really embarrassing. It's not embarrassing. It was, like, spoken word, like, slam poetry over, like, over, like, listens to add the drive in once. And so, that didn't go.

That went on for a while, and we had, like, a local following that was, like, you know, decent. It was like kids coming on the shows and singing along and stuff. So it was really fun. And then I went to Europe with my family to visit because my stepdad's Irish and so he went to visit his mom.

Your mom really kept it within the greater... Manchester guy. Not United Kingdom because Ireland is separate. Yeah, Irish guy. And so we went to go visit his family over there and I was gone for like a month. And while I was gone, our guitar player

started another band. He started a power violence band with Sam from trash talk who was not in trash talk yet shout out sam boston yeah yeah we love sam boston on this pod so him and sam started a power bounce band and then when i got back like the band was just kind of over they were over they were like barry you were gone too long we started new and cooler band completely without the english workstation is over standard yeah then there was like elliott and sam kind of in the in the in the mix elliott from tusha morin it was like um he was in that band too oh yeah we have a rumor that came from him as well about you oh wow i can't wait here

But yeah, so that, I kind of came back and like sort of like kind of like my life fell apart, honestly. Really? Because you were really like that. I was all in. I was all in. I can talk about how it wasn't very good now. But at the time, I was, it was the only thing I cared about, you know, so. Were you like 18? 19. 19. Yeah, 19. And then, yeah, so 20, I kind of stopped hanging out with that group of friends so much and started hanging out with my friends from high school who had become like kind of burnouts they were like taking a lot of like mushrooms and acid and like listening to like the beetles and stuff and so I was hanging out with them and not playing in a band but just like listening to a lot more music and getting really into like more into music and still like playing guitar

and like I kind of tried to learn how to sing and what did that look like learning how to sing really bad like it just wasn't very I don't have natural pitch very well I'm not you just practice by yourself in your room and the shower and stuff yeah yeah yeah totally Totally. And I started writing songs that like, or early Joyce Manners songs that are more melodic. Like they're not like, but they have like a melody. Like I was singing a melody. But it took me a long time to feel comfortable like doing that in front of somebody. I think it's so cool that you did that because I do think there's like sort of like a miss representation, especially in like alternative types of music like punk and stuff that like we don't try. You know like, oh, like it's so lame to like try to be good at something.

Dude, seriously. And, like, the fact that you were like, yeah, I had to, like, I had to, like, figure out how to sing. Like, if I wanted to do this properly. Totally. And I think that's amazing. So I spent, like, a year in hibernation, like, I had this little blue tape recorder, and I would just record myself on there. And it's a lot of, like, the really early Joyce Manor songs, like Beach Community and a couple other ones that. And they are melodic.

And I just recorded myself over and over again until it kind of sounded, like, sort of like the mountain goats or something like that. Like, I was like, okay, this sounds like I'm listening to a song and not, like. like my, a guy who can't sing, you know? Yeah. And it was torture. It was so hard. And I was like, what am I doing wrong? It's really, there's a lot to be said for overcoming your, like, it's so embarrassing

to be bad at something. Right. It's like, it's, people's, like, worst nightmare, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, for me, it was guitar. Like, I can, I'll never forget taking guitar lessons when I was 12. It was group lessons. Yeah.

And being like, actually, I'd rather die. Yeah. I'd actually rather strap this guitar to my back and walk into the ocean with a bunch of rocks in my pocket and sink to the bottom than continue to try to play these chords in front of these, like, cool boys. And so I never continued, you know, and even by myself because I was embarrassed to be bad at it by myself. And, like, it takes that. Not everyone is, like, born with, like, a perfect ear and perfect pitch. I mean, it does happen, but, like, it's rare. But, yeah, I can remember once I kind of got the hang of it, I, like, this girl I was dating at the time, I, like, pushed play on the tape recorder.

and said it down and left the room. Don't look at me. And then I came back and she was like, it's super good. Hell yeah. And I was just like, are you serious? Are you just saying that? She's like, and I, she was not that nice. Yeah.

So, like, if it was, like, if it was bad and embarrassing, she would have been like, Don't do this. Yeah. Don't do this to yourself, you know? You know, I did a couple of bands like in the, in the meantime. Did you use those songs? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I tried to get it off the ground a couple times. No one was into it because. Yeah. The circle I was in was just like not really, I don't know. They didn't know what to make of it. That kind of music wasn't their vibe. It's just harder. It's harder to try to play like a rock song.

That's like a rock song. Yeah. It was like, we were relying so much at that time on like as kids just like how energetic it is or how crazy it is or how like fun it's going to be at a rowdy hard. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And but actually trying to do a thing where you like play like a rock song. It's just hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Especially I feel like what you do. And it's like something that I have loved about your music since I first heard it is like, I know you say you don't have a good voice, but I think like your voice is really unique in that all the emotion is really palpable in it. Oh, thanks. And like that's something that's like it's different than doing hard, fast, aggressive music. You know, it's like you can't kind of hide yourself in that if that's the way you sing. Yeah, totally. I mean, it took me a really long time to not be like embarrassed to like kind of like.

just put some emotion into your singing. Like your friends are just kind of like laugh at you at band practice. You know anything? Like laugh in your face when you get all like emotional. Listen, I think that's baked into the emo genre. Like there's something deeply embarrassing about it.

And you got to, yeah, you just got to go there. You know, honestly. And then people, you start to see people resonating with it and you get more comfortable with like, okay, I'm right. This is the right way he does. Yeah. Not to be like, me too.

But that's kind of how I felt when I was making this podcast. Like, I wanted to die. Like, when I would have to listen back to tape. Yeah. And I was like, no, absolutely not. This is humiliating. And it wasn't until, like, people started to be like, no, we like this. Yeah.

But I was like, still took, like, two years for me to believe them. And I still kind of don't believe them. And I'm just like, whatever, we're five years in, I don't know how to do anything else. I have my days where I'm just like, so everyone just being nice. Flattering us. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Okay.

Sorry, that was like a mini Joyce Man or Bandsplane. I'm curious about the evolution of a musician that, like, there's kind of a lot of stops and starts, and then, like, you're within this scene. And it's, like, obviously, like, Elliot's doing great, you know. Yeah, I mean, everybody at that time, like, Sam was playing in trash talk. Elliot was doing Tushay Amore. We were friends with this band that we played with in Phoenix called Andrew Jackson Jihad. Now goes by AJJ. But they were blowing up.

They were incredible. Yeah, they're incredible. But we had played with them, like English Work Standard had played with them, and they were incredible. Yeah. I was like, this is like finding the violent femmes or something. They're so great. They really slept on, I have to say. Oh, they were made.

Yeah. At the time, they were, like, blowing up. And I'm like, all my friends are like these talented people who are finding success and touring and doing all this stuff that I really wanted to do. Yeah. And I felt kind of left behind. I felt like I had some talent and I didn't do it right. and I couldn't stick with the project. And then...

Well, in fairness, one of your projects abandoned you. Yeah. Because you went on vacation. It was time for that to end anyway. And those guys all did what, you know, they should have been doing. And we're all still friends. I still, I love Chad so much. He toured with us for years.

We Joyce Manor for years. And he was like one of my favorite people ever. It was tough at the time. But I'm glad that that's the way it went. And I had to kind of figure something else out because... Well, yeah, because you learned it exactly where you were supposed to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was a painful time for sure.

And, yeah, and, like, the first choice of manner record didn't come out until I was 24. Which is really interesting, given the genre, you know, like, yeah, right? Yeah, right? Yeah. I know. Like, if you can, like, I think you could maybe become a doctor. Like, you know, by that age, right? Maybe.

I think, almost. Like, you'd be two years from being. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what that means, but, yeah, you would be, like, pretty close to being a doctor. You went to a different kind of college. Yeah. If you really got right on it, you know, and you were in AP classes or something, you might be. No, I had friends, like, growing up that were, like, fellow Persian, you know, kids of my parents' friends that were, like, full on, like, I'm a lawyer now.

And I was like, I am touring with a band. Yeah. Not playing in it, obviously, just tagging along. Or, like, I don't know, I'm at a bar. Yeah. I'm listening to the Smiths. 22, 23. Yeah, I had nothing going on.

I'm professionally listening to the Smith at Max Fish. Yeah. Yeah, I was the amateur Smith's listener. trying to go pro. Trying to go pro, totally. I don't want to do early Joyce Manor or Razor because there are two albums before Never Hung Over Again, right? Yeah.

Which are also really good. Thanks. But Never Hung Over Again is like when you guys went pro. I think so. Yeah. I agree. Got the epitaph. Just songwriting got better.

And Chase started contributing more in a way that really made it something special. You know, it was, that's when the Mick and Keith thing started happening. Seriously. I'm like, there's like these two. personalities. Like, I can hear so much of Chase and what makes Chase such a great and cool person in his guitar playing. It's like, it sounds like Chase. And it's like, once you have that with it, it's like, that's just so rare, you know. Do you guys have the Mick and Keith thing where, like, you're writing songs about Chase and singing them? No, I don't know about Chase. No, or the Smith,

or, yeah, Morrissey's writing about Johnny Marr. Yeah. I won't share you and all that. Um, no. No, I'm not writing about Chase, though. I'm often thinking about how much I love him and stuff. You're all on stage, but I'm not writing songs. I listen to the new album bunch, which we are going to talk about, because I think it's so fucking good. But just to like refresh, I put on Never Hung Over Again, and just like Christmas card came on, and I was like,

first of all, transported back to exactly 2014, which was not a particularly happy time in my life, but also the album was perfect for that because it's like a little bit of a Les Miz album. But I was also like, they didn't have to go so fucking hard. Thanks. With this fucking intro, this opening track? Yeah.

Sequenced by Brett Gearwitz. I didn't have it as the opening track, but Brett Gearwitz sequenced it and put it first. Kind of knows what he's doing. Seriously. He's so good. When you guys signed to Epitaph, like, because I know for me growing up in Torn, like, the specter of Epitaph and, like, bad religion and penny-wise and everything was like so major. Yeah. So for you, was it kind of the same when you were like, oh, my God, I'm, like, signing to Brett Girowitz's label?

No. No. Brett's a super unassuming guy and epitaph from the year maybe like 2000 to like 2010 weren't putting out a ton of stuff that I liked. They were a bit in their flop era.

They just got more, you know, they had to survive. You know what I mean? And I get it. Like the 90s punk bubble had kind of burst. And they wanted, you know, they'd become a big label. Offspring's only going to pay the, keep the lights on for so long. They'd become a big label. There's all these people with jobs and they kind of had to look at what was selling

and what people were listening to. But they, you know, throughout that whole time, they still put out great punk records. And they just sort of took the major label approach of, like, diversifying, like putting a different stuff. I think it's so genius what they did, especially with anti. Like, I remember when they started anti. Exactly. God, it must have been like 2003, maybe even before that.

For Tom Waits. Yeah. And then like what they started doing with that, which I don't think people got right away. But now it's like so fucking thriving. And you're like, oh, yeah, they were so ahead. I've come to find this as a sort of subject. And I'm really glad it didn't happen. But I asked about being on anti.

Interesting. I was like, do you think maybe make more sense on anti? Because you thought it was cooler? I thought it was cooler, yeah. I thought it kind of made more sense. You look kind of foky. Yeah, I don't know. Americani, especially at that time.

I was, yeah, it was just like, we're not really metalcore, and that's kind of what you guys' bread and butter is these days. But maybe they wanted to go back to the source, you know? Yeah, I mean, Brett is really, really proud of Epitaph, rightfully so. Yeah. And over the last, I would say, 10 years, they put out, I mean, kind of starting with us and a couple of other bands that they signed, another time, Menzinger's, cell kicks and stuff.

They sort of did enter, like, another era. So it does make more sense, kind of in retrospect. And I'm really glad that we're on Epitaph. I'm really proud to be an Epitaph. I love the label. I think it's like a perfect, I was talking to Missy from Man and Good Pussy about this, because they're also on Uptop, right? And I was like, what a dream scenario?

Because you get a little bit of the best of both worlds, right? Like, they are so major in the sense, not being a major label, being just major and so long-running and so well-connected that they can offer you all of that support. The infrastructure. The infrastructure, but they're not a major label. So you're not going to get lost in the shuffle. Like there's so much, like, high touch.

And also, like, you know the ethics are kind of there. Yes. 100%. I love the label. I'm so happy that that's, like, where we ended up. Because I would have, I wanted to be on Madador. Well, who doesn't? I know.

Well, no, honestly, now. I want to be on Madador. Would you like to sign me as a podcast? If I could time machine, I would not. Yeah. I'm so happy that that's where we ended up. And, you know, I just think it's the spot for us for sure. But at that time, they were signing, like, you know, fucked up and ceremony.

Totally. We were playing shows with them, and I was kind of like, that would be great for us. And we were talking to polyvinyl, too. Also a great of amazing label. Amazing label. Amazing label. But for us as people and the relationships we've made at Epitaph, like, is 100% the right place. I like the continuity of like Torrance band, Epitaph, SoCal label, like has so many roots with like different Socal bands.

Yeah, trying to like, trying to be like on an indie cred label. I just, it's not, I like to be carved a little different path for ourselves where we made kind of like unconventional. punk records on a punk label. We didn't even mention up top that you're a return bandsplained guest because you've done one of the most popular bandsplained episodes on Weiser. Yeah, Weezer.

That was so cool. You were a perfect guest. I thought we had a lot of fun. Absolutely. Anecdotally, I've heard it's very popular with teenagers that episode. Cool. I don't know if that's because of you.

I wonder. Or because if Weezer has like some sort of TikTok popularity. Yeah, right? It might be both. It might be both. Yeah, with Buddy Holly kind of... We talked about this on the episode, but it was like, I feel like three years ago now, so I don't remember.

You didn't get into the Blue Album until later. Like when you were mentioning those like 1994 albums that you were into, Blue Album wasn't one of them. Not so much, yeah. Weezer was not a, it was more of a high school thing. Yeah. I got into ska first and then people in, that were into ska, liked Weezer.

Interesting. I don't know, it was like nerdy. Okay, yeah. I feel like I read something you were saying about like glasses and cardigan or backpack or something. Converse. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I was just like, it all kind of went together. I hear some Weaser on this new album.

Of course. Oh, my God, so much, yeah. I got really into the Red album. Interesting. Yeah. No, it's, it's, yeah. We, when we toured with them, they would play this song called the greatest man that ever lived every night. And it's like seven minutes long and completely unhinged.

And all these, like, just normal people that were at the show know every word. It's kind of like people know, like, there's like diehard Weezer fans, you know every song. Right. And then there's like another layer of people that know, like, Hashpipe, say it ain't so. Right, Beverly Hills, the radio hits. But they also know that one. Why?

Why? Maybe TikTok? I don't know. But the song is amazing. It's awesome. I really love it. It really grew on me. But I had never really heard it much or maybe ever made it all the way through it because

it's totally unhinged. Do you guys have a song on your set that you feel like is like that where you're like... Why is this one popular? Yeah. No. No. But yeah, this song is like seven minutes long. It's pretty crazy.

It's, yeah. Not Joyce Manor style. No, no, yeah. It's like a Joyce Manor album. Yeah, totally. Seriously. Is it weird that your biggest song is from your first album? Um, no.

I mean, it's really weird. I kind of knew that song was special when I was writing it. You did. We're talking about constant headache. Yeah, we're talking about constant headache. I wrote it on the Torrance 3 bus. Hell, yeah. I mean, so if anyone wants to challenge my Torrance creed,

what songs? Do you write? on the Torrance 3, you know what I mean? Yeah, and I fully just, like, was, like, really moved. I was, like, you know, like, wiping away tears when I was writing it. And I wrote it all in one go. It had an extra verse. I wrote, like, it was, like, Bob Dylan level just, like, six verses in a row, you know?

Could have been five minutes. Yeah. Could have been the first ever five minutes. I have, I have the, because I got home, and that same little blue tape recorder I have, like, I just recorded it under that all in one go, and I already had, like, all the verses. And I kind of just kept running it over and over again in my head not to lose it. But yeah, I was like wiping away tears. Like I was like I was really moved by it.

And it all came at one time. Like, no, didn't have to slave up or anything. Those ones come from God. Yeah, that's my biggest thing. Seriously. You know? It kind of feels like, I don't know who wrote that. I don't know where that came from.

I had it for about a year before we ever played it because I was super embarrassed of it. I thought it was like. Because it was too emotionally vulnerable. Yes. Yeah. Our first EP is called the Constantinetic EP and has a song called Constantin' Nothing on it. But you were hiding the Constanetic.

I had showed it to everybody and we tried it and we couldn't quite get the arrangement right. It didn't quite feel right. And then we played some shows and we were doing two versions of it. We were doing a fast version and a slow version. I was asking my friends who were on tour with... You were polling people?

I was. I was like, fast or slow? And some people were like, fast for sure, dude. Because they're just... It's fast. Yeah. And I don't think people like, dude, slow. And the majority of people are like the slow way, of course.

Right. And so. It goes with the feeling and tone of the song. Yeah, but we did a West Coast door where we would alternate. One night we would do the fast version, one night we'd do the slow version. But the version I have recorded that I'll put it out there. I'll put it out someday because it's interesting to hear the extra verse. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, with extra verse is fast. Did you cut it literally just because it didn't work within the arrangement? Or is there like lyrical content there that? You were like, no. It's not bad actually It just the song made Worked but it was too long Right

And I'd like Yeah and that song has no chord It's the same chords the whole time It's kind of like a Goo Goo Dolls Iris It's like the chorus and verse of the same melody You're speaking to my heart right now

The chorus is the one melody And then the chorus is just the melody An octave up So it's like the same melody The entire song So it's hard to keep that interesting And the only thing that keeps it interesting Is like the

I feel like the lyrics are fairly compelling and it was just like, I had too much. And so I had to chop it. But there's some cool imagery in the other verse. It'll come out eventually. Can't wait. I love that song. Embarrassment of riches.

Yeah. Iris could be 22 minutes long and I would still listen to it. Yeah. It's just my, that's my, do my thing about it. Guided by voices. Yeah. Let's fucking go.

That was also a late addition to your arsenal of inspirations. Yeah, I moved to Long Beach, and then I got an apartment with this guy, Stu, We were really broke, and we decided to be, like, super bohemian and not get any internet. I'm obsessed with this. I'm like, can I, should I do this? I'd love to not have internet at my home. It was cool.

It changed my life. I mean, totally, like, I, so we had no internet for, like, the first year or two. And so I would just go to the library and check out CDs. And my first trip, I got a couple books and maybe, like, a few movies. And the two CDs I got were Enema Estate and Alien Lanes, but I got to buy voices. And you hadn't really engaged with either of these vans yet, or you had? I had, I was in middle school. And when the State came out, and this girl I was hanging out with Melanie Marco was really into it, and I loved it.

I thought it was great. But I never owned it or anything or spent that much time with it, but I still knew every part of it. And when I, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, I loved this album. And so like, okay. And then when I put it back on, like, I still remembered every word, every part. It's what I thought. Because she would listen to it over and over again. This is how fast things used to move, you guys, by the way, which was, like, for me, Enim of the State was the last Blank, 182 album.

that was like part of my world because like it was like they just like went to another place for me after that because I was like Cheshire Cat on you know but they were putting those albums came out pretty quickly in succession you know I had Dude Ranch I had Dude Ranch before that I loved it yeah and I got I got Dude Ranch for Christmas

like maybe two years before that and I also got a bunch of peanut brittle okay and I the food not the food the food and dude ranch kind of looks like peanut brittles yeah and like it's like that westerny kind of brown Yeah, it's all big horse's ass. And so, like, yeah, right. And so listening to Duder Ranch, like, still, like, I kind of taste peanut brother.

I can taste it, like, a sensory thing. That's like your synesthesia, but it's what taste. Trust that. Like that, and I was so sick of this peanut brittle, it was a big fucking thing of it. And it's like listening to Dut Ranch over and over again, just, yeah. Like, I don't even just, sonically, it has this, like, that record sounds like gritty. And, like, the taste of it, just they really, yeah, it's crunchy. It's crunchy.

Okay, so you also picked up. Alien Lanes, one of the greatest. It took me a while that grew on me, man. Because when I first put it on, it sounded just like drunk boomers, making up songs as they went along. And I knew... Not drunk boopers. And I knew it was like, I knew it was critically acclaimed.

And I was just shocked. I was like, what... What am I missing here? Yeah, what am I missing? But it's one of those ones were just kind of like one or two songs at a time. I was like, okay, game of pricks. Game of Pricks. That's incredible.

And then I'll be like... God tear song. Yeah, exactly. And then I'd be like, okay, as we go up, we go down. amazing. God tear a song. But then like weirder stuff started to creep in

where I would be like oh, buzzes Drupful Crows or just some of the more kind of artier, noisier, collagier ones started to kind of

and then I just love the whole thing and I still love, love that record. For those of you that don't know, this album has 28 songs on it. Yeah. They're all very short. Yeah.

Since then, guided by voices have put out 150 more albums. Yeah. That's a row. off estimation, but I don't think I'm that far off. The last one was pretty good. Yeah, it came out this year, or 2025.

I'm into it. I haven't checked out, like, the 23 that came out before the, yeah, but. He's a genius. He's so great. I love Bob Pollard's songwriting. It's incredible. I love that his approach is literally, like, it's all good, and I'm going to put it all out. Yeah.

You know, like, that's, like, a very, like, interesting way to approach your art. I have the exact opposite. I'm like, it's all about, I'm not putting any of it out. And then people have to be like, it's good. Please put it out. I'm like, okay, you can put out this one, but that's it. You just need a touch of the Bob Pollards. Yeah, I wanted this last record to be a seven-inch, just like two songs.

Just I used to go to this bar and all my friends are so depressed. Very. I know, but I know. It's like, oh, let's keep writing. Like, okay, okay. But it took me a lot of writing. Then you would deprive me of gray guitar? I'll slap you in your mouth.

We'll get to it. But yeah, I'm always like that. I'm always like, I let's just only put out these ones. So when you're, this library excursion time, does this coincide with Joyce Manor songwriting? Yeah, just beginning. Yeah, totally makes sense to me. Yeah, so it's almost like you needed like the last ingredient. Yeah, seriously.

Yeah, and like those got-by-voiced songs are so melodic. And I was just getting comfortable enough with my singing to like, okay, I'm going to like sing a melody and, you know, in front of people, which is really terrifying. A whole new, a whole new strain of terrifying. I couldn't do it, but. So, yeah, a lot of those early melodies are like super Bob Pollard. But, you know, I've always been the kind of person where it's like I wouldn't want to just be in like a, a band that sounds just like Out of my voices.

Sure, of course. I was like, well, can we think of like one other thing to combine it with to where it would be like fresh? I was just arguing with someone about this where they were like, oh, I can hear all the different influences in XYZ band.

And I was like, that is every band ever. Like, the point of making art, why I'm on with the point, but what often transpires with making art is like you are a funnel for a bunch of influences. And then what comes out the other side

is different and new because it's sieved through you. Yeah. Like it comes with a prism of you who are a different person with different experiences. And that's what makes it cool. Like, nobody is making art in a fucking vacuum. Totally. You've never heard anything.

Yeah. And when they do, it's called noise music. I don't want to listen to it. I know. Who wants to listen to it? We're all set. Totally. So many good ideas are just like that.

Where I read a thing with Morrissey was talking about, like, him and Johnny Marr were both into like the girl group seven inches. And he was kind of like, well, what if this kind of had the, like, Joni Mitchell, Patty Smith, like, personal wordiness. Yeah. With this kind of, like, upbeat, pop thing. Yeah. And he's like, that doesn't exist.

But I wish I want it to exist, you know? And that's why I made it. And it's the best thing ever. Or, like, the, like, Oasis is, like, the Beatles and the Sex Pistols at the same time. And, well, and Stone Roses. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But, you know, there's these other purple things, but you can kind of just, like, layer these two things and get this, like, new color.

Right. And the Girl Group one is a great example because there's many bands who started with the Girl Group. influence and could sound completely different from each other. Sure. You know? But that was sort of their inkling that got them going. That's actually another one from that library time. There was this box set of all of these girl groups singles that came in a hat box.

And I checked that out from the library. I was listening to that nonstop. That was one of my first pieces of vinyl. I got at a garage sale. It was like a four record duop classics. Hell yeah. And I would sit in my room with the record player and listen to it nonstop. listen to it nonstop.

Yeah. Because it's like everything you relate to, like I think you and I have something in common. Like when you're relating to Nirvana, a lot of that is just pop songwriting. Totally. That comes from the Beatles that kind of is also you can go back to do off, you know? And so like hearing it's like, especially you're 12 years old, you're like, let's fucking go. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the new album. Okay. I love it. I love it. It's really good. I appreciate it.

A lot of people. People asked about the album cover, which I thought was interesting because it's listed on Wikipedia, but I'll tell you guys. Supplied by friend of the band Chris Clean, and it's a photo of his grandmother at a party. Is that correct? That's true. It's very cool. You guys have great album covers. Thank you so much. Sue Bird Smith's influenced. Well, it kind of, it is, but also it ties into like a quote I read from Brett Gerowitz who produced this album.

Very cool. This is the first Joyce Manor album he's produced, where he called you or compares you to Ernest Hemm. way. Yeah, I think it's because of the, like, baby shoes never worn. I was in my head, I was on the hand, I was like, Antony's skate shoes never worn. Yeah, exactly. Which I looked into that, and I think that's maybe, like, actually not something that he did. I think it's maybe falsely contributed to him, but whatever. I know what he means. I think it's more that you, and I wanted to ask you about this, because throughout your songwriting, especially on this album, I noticed it, there's so many, like, specific details that make you think of a, you think of a, you

a short story. And I was wondering, but then I also read that you said that you were accessing past feelings and experiences and emotions to write this. Do you keep journals in order? So this is all kind of like you're mining your memory? I guess so, you know, and I think a lot of a narrative of this kind of being like this backwards-looking album of kind of like remembering when. There is some truth to that. I mean, the record is literally called I used to go through this far, you know. So there is some of that, obviously. But then also, like, we did the social media thing where this company we hired to do our social media be hooked, they, like, just asked us to reminisce on key moments of our career. Right.

And I think that people think, like, we decided to do that. Yeah. We were kind of like, hey, guys, you want to sit around and talk about the old days? Which is, like, it was not my idea. So this isn't supposed to be kind of like a let's take a trip down memory lane. But I guess it has ended up being that. And I think it's partly just partially just getting a little older. I was going to say.

It's really fun to remember stuff. I think it makes a lot of sense, given your age. Yeah. Because it's like you're coming up on 40. Yeah. That's really a very classic time to sort of take stock. Yeah, you mean, the world you spent your 20s in is completely gone. Completely gone.

So different. The way you're miserable in your 20s is so unique. I mean, it's not like we're not miserable now. I don't want to speak for you. I'm a lot happier. Yeah, I mean, like you're like a happy, you know, you are successful at what you do. you're in a beautiful marriage, like, you have a nice home, you know? Like, and not to say that your life is perfect, obviously we all grapple with different ex-essential stuff.

But by the time you're pushing on 40, it's just, it's not, it doesn't have the urgency it has when you're 20 and you're like, this is fucking life or death. And like, so it makes a lot of sense to kind of tap on the past to put into songwriting, you know? Getting a little, yeah, getting a little like after a couple drinks thinking about the old days and stuff, you know. But got to shake that off. I don't think I have many albums worth of that in me. Right. Or like it's just, you don't want to give into that indulgence or that like. Well, now you can make your opera the way that Rivers Quamp was doing,

completely fictionalized characters. Something. Yeah, right. Something else. Well, I also do feel like you did it a bunch here and I do it a bunch when I talk about my past, but I feel like there's something about Torrance because it's like this weird bubble storybook suburban place. And let me do it, all the South Bay, where you, you, You talk about everyone by first and last name, right?

It's like, all yeah. People are like characters, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, we have obviously, I know where Mark Chen lives. Mark Chen, a friend of yours from the band, summer vacation and winter break, or did I get that? Exactly, no, that's right. Okay, great.

Yep. He's from the San Gabriel Valley, and he was, like, he was a band that we played with in early Joyce manner, and he's such an amazing songwriter. But he's reclusive. Did you have to ask him for his permission to use his name? No one's talked to him in years. Is this your kind of way of, like, a siren call?

Mark Chen, please come back to us. I wrote you this song. There's this band, television personalities. Yeah. And they have a song called I know where Sid Barrett lives. Yeah, yeah. So it's about, like, he's like our Sid Barrett. I love that. He's a reclusive, you know? Yeah, because you guys did a split single with...

Yeah. We used to play with summer vacation all the time. Yeah. We used to play with them, like, once a week. But we were not... We weren't only friends. Right. I liked them a lot, and I loved their band.

Yeah. But we never hung out outside of playing shows together. I never had, like, their phone numbers. Yeah. We weren't, like, buddies. Have you... Have you Google... Mark Chen? Have you gone on Facebook?

He's not around. Should we hire a private investigator? I don't think so. I think so. He's kind of troubled. Someone's going to get in touch with you, I'm sure, soon. And be like, Mark Chen is my neighbor. Mark Chen is my high school teacher. Dude, have you talked to him?

I'm wondering, where's Mark? And I was like, no one's talked to him. That's so interesting. I hope he's okay. I hope he's okay, too. He's so talented. I'm sad he's not doing music anymore. He's one of my favorite songwriters.

That's interesting. Best voice. I love that you kind of commemorated him here with this song title. Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. I just think he's awesome. And I like television personalities, and it was kind of a nod to... Incredible.

I got to, like, yeah. What did Brett Gorowitz bring to the producing table that you felt was, like, maybe different than what you'd experienced with producers before? He's my favorite producer we've ever worked with. He was, it was such a great fit, amazing chemistry as far as just workflow in the studio. He's a bit more of a cheerleader than the bad in the past. What did you have before?

Sort of like... Rob Schnaff, who is amazing. What an iconic. Rob Schnaff is such an amazing producer. If you guys don't know about Rob Schnaff, all you have to know is he produced Elliot Smith. Elliot Smith, got it by voices, saves the day. A lot of great, great, great records. He's so talented.

It's also just really cool. He's super cool. I love Rob. And he's not a cheerleader, though. But he brought a lot of... I learned so much about songwriting and song structure and how to make songs better from Rob. Like, it's invaluable. Like, I love that guy and I love working with him.

But he's not really there to, like, boost up your ego. Seriously, he's a pretty dry dude. And he's not really there to, like, you know, make you feel good about yourself or whatever. Probably Robert Pollard doesn't need it. Exactly. I mean, a lot of artists don't, you know. And also maybe for the arc of your output, that was right for that time. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, maybe at that time you kind of needed like, oh, like, ass whipping or whatever. Especially Cody. I love how Cody. Cody is so good. Thank you. Cody is unfairly blind. I love it. Yeah.

So. They don't like you to try. They don't like you to be different. Yes. They don't let you be different in this world. So, um, but Brett is very much like, he's coaching your performance. And like when you, like, give him a good vocal take, he's like jumping out of his chair and pumping. It's just, you know, so he's like getting you kind of pumped.

And, like, um, you know, and, um, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, And just always kind of telling you how great your band is and what people love about your band because I can get kind of down on it. Like, oh, I don't know. He really is like, you can't see it, but this is great just because it's like you. And it is you.

And it's just really good at making you feel confident. And like what you're doing is worth doing. Can you come to my house? Seriously. I mean, I feel like I can't. Yeah. He's really, really good at just helping you feel good about what you're making and that it's worth doing.

and I guess I'm just someone who needs that. I need like some reassurance. Yeah, well, we've picked that up from the bits of your story of like I sang by myself in the shower for a year before I was able to show anybody. But Brett could have rolled in and be like, you sound awesome, man. Like, people are going to love this. Putting it out. Yeah, he's like, all right, well, it's good enough of Brett. Do you feel also like it holds a little extra weight because you're like, this person absolutely has been through this and knows it?

Because they're not just like a producer who's never also had to put themselves out there, been in a band. Like, he's done all of it. He's done all of it. So much wisdom. So much experience. And, yeah, I just felt so comfortable trusting him. And, yeah, like, I feel like sometimes I want someone to add something to make it less, like, me or less Joyce manner so that it'll be better. Right.

But he would just, like, he didn't add stuff that they didn't need because he's like, it's your voice, it's Chase's guitar playing, it's Matt's bass playing, and we hired the drummer of Oasis. This is going to be awesome. Joey Warwicker. Yeah, exactly. So he's just like. Of the Warrenker musical dynasty. He's like this rules. Trust me.

And so it really just puts you at ease and kind of like, and sort of you can just be like, well, if it doesn't, it's on you. Because you told me it was good. You know, so he really kind of... You shirked the responsibility. You back it. You're the one who said it was good. This is your label.

I never said it was good. If it bombs, that's money out of your pocket. Yeah, exactly. So... I read that he encouraged you to speed up songs. He encouraged, yeah, when we were about halfway through the record, there was a lot of indie rock happening. Yeah.

And I was kind of like, yeah, whatever. Like, that's what I'm writing. I'm going to go with it. Those are the songs that I feel like are turning out good. And he was like, he liked those songs a lot. Don't get me wrong. But he was like, I think we need some tempo. Right.

And so I resented. I really didn't appreciate being told that. I'm like, I'm grown up. Yeah. I don't have to write that song. Dad! Yeah, I'm just going to need to do that. Like, for what?

To what end? Yeah. You know, but then it sat. I just stuck. with me, and I knew he was right. I knew it would be better to listen to. And, like, no one, including myself, really wants a Joyce Manor record that's, like, 100%

indie rock. Well, also, I'm sure he wasn't coming at it from, like, a place of, like, we talked about Cody, where, like, sometimes people who are fans do you literally just want you to do the same thing over and over again. But, like, obviously that's not Brett's MO, right? Like, he, so you could trust that he was coming

to it from, like, kind of a more objective, like, the song will sound better this way. But I was kind of like, you know, our most popular song is Constantetic. It's not fast. Right, right. I was like, I don't think people necessarily come to Joyce Mayer for fast. You know, and I was like, you know, we had songs already like, like, like, all my friends are so depressed and stuff, which I was really proud of.

Yeah, and I was kind of like. God tear. So it was really good of him to tell me that because it wasn't easy to tell me that. Right. Because like I said, he likes you to feel confident because you will. He very sensitive. And he did her. my feelings. And I was kind of like

moody and, no, I'm fine. It's okay. Yeah. You know, me? I'm fine. No, what do you? I don't know. You know how to do everything. Obsessed. Yeah. I was like pretty, it hurt my feelings, yeah.

And so I was kind of like very fast songs. But it stuck with me and I was like, he's right. I think he was just thinking about Never Hung Over Again and there's a couple fast songs on it. And it breaks up the album in a nice way. Never Hung Over Again is one of the best-paced album. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, yeah, just... This one is, too. Once I wrote songs, like, some of the songs I wrote, like, there's a song called The Possum, which it was literally, it sounded like Bell and Sebastian. It sounded like Boyd, the Arab Strap. Interesting. And I was like, we don't need more Bell and Sebastian.

In this world? Yeah, they're so good at it. And so I was like, is there... I was like, so I made it double time. But the melody stayed the same, same, but the music was twice as fast. And I was like, well, that's pretty awesome. It's so good. Thanks.

It's a really good song. Thank you. But that was Brett in my... in my head. And I was like, is there any way to make this fast? Which I wouldn't have really cared about personally.

I would have been like, I'm just going to... Just love it on there. Without the idea, come to me, how it comes to me, and then just try to do it justice. Yeah. But that was kind of like,

uh, let's try to make fast. And then it was so fun. And that's Joey Warner playing drums, which I don't think he's ever done. Like, I don't think he's ever played like a D beat.

Like... Really? I mean, well... When you say this, I don't know what you're talking about because, as you know, I don't know about music, but other people will.

So he's playing like a fast rockabilly beat in the verse, and in the chorus he just plays like a really fast punk beat. And I could be wrong. That's a D-beat? Yeah, like a discharge. Oh, you know, yeah. The discharge drum beat. And it's not quite the discharge drum beat,

but it's similar to that. It's just like a really straightforward fast punk beat. Which I could be wrong. There could be a recording out there of Joey playing really fast punk drums. Just covering discharge? Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I don't know, you know. But I kind of doubt it.

So it's really funny to get this guy that's played on, like, Paul McCartney records. and come. The range of this man. Yeah, the range. And he crushed it, and it was so fun playing that with him. Yeah, he was having a lot of fun doing that. I'm sure.

Because I don't think he ever gets to do something like that. And yeah, it was really, that was one of my favorite moments of recording. It was recording. Shout out, Brett G. man. Yeah. That's a possum song. Yeah. Goes hard.

Thank you. I think it's perfect exactly the way it ended. Although now I want to hear an entirely acoustic version of this album where you just play them, like, real fucking slowdown. Yeah, we have all that stuff. And I hope it'll come out eventually, but I'm really just trying to do new stuff. But we do have, like, a lot of unreleased stuff

that I think would be interesting to super fans. At some point, yeah. I would like to do it on band camp for, like, charity or something. Yeah, yeah, that's so great. At some point. Talk to me about the synth. It's Roger Manning. Oh, sure.

Plays with Beck. Plays with Beck. Same with Joey. We use all Beck's guys. Roger Manning was also played on Enim of the State. Yeah, no, he's. I mean, he's incredible. He's incredible.

He's incredible. He's the range. Brett's like, like, I could see some keyboards. I know a dude. He's really good. I really liked it because I said I hear a wizard, but what I really meant was I hear the cars. Super cars. Yeah, which I love because I wasn't expecting it, right?

You know? I also was heartbroken recently. Someone pointed out, it's just canon and D. It's like, I don't know who that. Who does, like, I forget who does that. Pocket Bell's canon. Yeah. It's just Canon in D.

That's okay. There's only so many. There's only so many. There's only so many things. Yeah. It's a lot like if you listen to Canon and D. We won't put it. We won't put it.

You didn't have to say it. You don't have to out yourself. I know. I know. I bet, yeah. I was like, oh, God, it is just Canon and D. But I really like that one. That one came out great. And yeah, Roger Manning's synth stuff he added really elevated it.

I need to ask about all my friends are so depressed. Yesterday I was extremely ludial. You know this. You have a wife. And I was like real like, actually it's okay if I don't live anymore. Actually, there's no. There's no point in living in crying in the Starbucks, you know? And then you're like, you look at your calendar and you're like, you can't be trusted.

But then I put this song on repeat because I sometimes like to wallow. Yeah. I usually don't care about asking about like, like, lyrical influences, but I was a little curious about this one. Like where was the headspace here? Because again, this one has like all those like really great little details. Sure. Like the Frampton comes alive. Yeah.

Like you really painted a picture of. of like a time in life. Yeah. So I was just curious. You don't have to out of yourself. No, no. I mean, I know. I think this one's super influenced by 100 gecks.

I was listening to them. Interesting. I'm so glad I asked. I would never have. The song like Doritos and Fritos has like the verses have like this just kind of word association. Yeah. Eating burritos. It's like Lord above.

To come in. To Cuba. Chewim, bazooka. I was just listening to so much of them and so much. So many of their like lyrics like make me like actually laugh out loud. But I'm also like, that's so great. And they kind of,

they will, like, especially Laura Lass will slip in, like, some kind of just, like, really relatable, like, moving moments of, of vulnerability in these otherwise kind of, like, jokey, or not jokey, but just, like, funny. But they're funny because they're, like, good and witty. Yeah. But also, like, just full on, just embracing stupidity, sort of, which I was also trying to do where I was just, like,

not trying to be, like, super tasteful or something. Just kind of allow myself to be silly. That's why it works so well, because it's, It's like, it's not too heavy-handed. It's obviously like the song is called All My Friends are so depressed, and there's like a through line of depression. And so, but then the song is so twangy.

And so when you get to a lyric like, wish that I would fucking die in this like sing-song voice that's like comes right after key lime pie and Frampton Live, it's like, it's a perfect balance, right? Because it's not like pummeling you over the head with this like Morrissey-esque almost like mellow drama. You know, it has like both. Sure.

And you can kind of be like, it is kind of funny that I wish I would fucking die. Yeah. Yeah, there's some really just funny rhyme. Like rhyming, hit the bong, wrote a song. It's almost like kind of trying to write, like the worst song I could write. But I didn't really feel like that. I was also just kind of like, this is a fun thing I'm exploring of just like being silly and having fun.

I think it's really emotionally resonant despite it being really silly. You know, like it hits pretty hard. There's a misfits reference. Lascaress, babe. Yeah, yeah. You already know. Last dress. You already know I caught that.

Just, yeah. Yeah, I, yeah. So I'm just kind of listing stuff I like and making funny rhymes to amuse myself and including it on the record and really really being, really being, really being, really being. Weirdly, like, and just parts like I pursue a deeper dream. I love it. Kill it with a laser theme. That's another example. That's another example.

Because I pursue a deeper dream as such like kind of a lofty, like, open, hearted thing to say. and then the next thing is kill it with a laser beam. It's like perfect. Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of like about writing that's on the most. You know what I mean? Like what am I like really trying to get to the bottom of myself through this like exercise and like almost stupidity?

Was it dumb? Like hit the ball, wrote a song. It feels very Buddhist honestly. Oh, thanks. You know, like to be like I'm going like actually the most true and like kind of serious thing you can do is just be fucking dumb. Yeah, sort of. Yeah. No, honestly.

Like I honestly do feel like that was like me breaking through actually like that was the first thing I'd written in a while where I was. was like, oh, I love this. Yeah. And I think this is like really, this is a huge reflection of like who I, who I am and what my inner world looks like. Wow, it's like you're putting it all back together. It's short, silly, Barry has been unified. That's five, two. With tall, tall rock star Barry.

Yeah, super deep guy, you know. You also, I'm sorry, I have to out of this because I love Lana. You said in an interview that you were tangentially inspired by Lana Del Rey around this song. Yeah, her thing is like a cool, determined. Catched 50s Americana. Yeah. Which, I mean, I'm not, I don't, I don't, I don't anything against Lana Del Rey, but I haven't listened to much of it.

Right. But I know that's kind of her, I like that song, video game. It's a cool song. Incredible. Yeah. But I've never got super into it, but I know that's kind of her vibe. And I was kind of picturing this, like, despondent, shag carpet, bong rip. Yeah.

70s. Yeah. I think you kind of nailed it. Thank you. Yeah. It's not really supposed to be cool and sexy. It's sort of, like, more damp. and like shitty and like poorly lit.

I can actually literally smell long water like on the, I'm like picturing Long Beach and like there's like a brown carpet. Exactly. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Like a mattress and no sheets on it. Just yeah. Just that kind of shit. It's very, that's vibey. You really hit me at the end there. I was like, okay, I'm loving this album.

We're going through. We have highs and loads. And then, not lows, but you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then gray guitar comes out of nowhere and just punches me in my mouth. I need to know as accounting crows mega fan. Is this accounting crows right? reference gray guitar. That's insane. This is the second person to ask me that. Oh, so it wasn't. Maybe maybe it subconsciously is. Are you a Mr. Jones guy? Man, it's so funny. So the lyrics, okay, so

for you guys, I don't know, lyrics and Mr. Jones are, yeah, well, you know, gray is my favorite color. I felt so symbolic yesterday. If I knew Picasso, I would buy myself a gray guitar and play. That's the lyric. That's why I asked. Oh, my God. Okay. Buy myself a great guitar and play. That is unreal. Mr. Jones. Maybe it embedded itself in your cycle. I must have. I'm totally aware of that song. I do like you can't. Of course. I do. It's a great song. You have two ears and a heart. I've never put it on of my own volition. You don't need to. You just have to walk into a CVS or a Starbucks or anywhere in life. And I do like it. I like the lyrics a lot, actually. I think it's a great song, but I never picked that up. I must have at some point.

And because the other person who asked us in an interview didn't tell us the lyrics. He was just like, is that counting crows? And I was like, what? So it wouldn't make sense to you why he was asking. I didn't know what he meant. Yeah. He's like, oh, never mind. I just thought it was counting crows. And I was like... He should have backed up his statement.

That's not real journalism. Yeah, yeah. But I think he just got, like, embarrassed. Right, because he was like, oh, yeah. I asked the cool guy with neck tattoos if he listens to counting crows. And I was like, what? I mean, I like a long December. Who doesn't, babe?

God here. I put that on my own volition. I've like been like, I feel like listening to Long December. Yeah. Beautiful song. I feel like it somehow... I think it is. Because Mr. Jones is a really melancholy song, actually.

And then the fucking lyric after... I want to. Goose bumps. Literal goosebumps for me. Yeah, I can actually see him. This is about your song, not about Mr. Jones. We both know that they can't fix you. They haven't got the parts.

I was like, drag my ass straight to hell, Bear Johnson. Thanks. This is the Ernest Hemingway to me, though, because Danielle, is that a fake person? Yeah. Yeah. You can kind of immediately tell that this is, like, a character. But obviously, like, all characters are based on amalgamations or whatever. But I was like, it's really a short story.

This is like a Raymond Carver short story distilled into a song. Love Raymond Carver. Wow. Thank you. It's, yeah, that's an interesting one because I wrote the verses. When I first started meditating, I had this insanely prolific. Are we T.M.ing, but? Yeah, I did T.M. Hive stand-up.

Yeah. So I started doing that, and I had this really insanely prolific, like, month or two where I wrote so many songs. And not a lot of it didn't get used, but that verse, the first verse, I had that. But it was, the rest of the song was kind of about, like, being the first person to walk up to a car crash. Oh. And just being like, oh, shit, I think this dude's dead. And, like, finding it, like, being the, like, I got to call the cops. Thursday core?

Yeah, kind of Thursday core. Well, I'm not a Thursday guy, but I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I'm just standing in a car crash, right? Yeah. But sort of just being, like, the person who, like, pulls over and sees if everyone's okay. Yeah. And kind of doing, like, I don't know.

Is it, I think, could be dead. What an interesting feeling to try to tap into. And it was about, like, calling me, like, I said, I think this guy's dead. Right, right. He might be alive. Right. And. Like that kind of moment of, like, fear and anticipation, but not knowing.

Yeah, yeah. So first time you seen a dead body here and, like, and just like, I want to do something, but I got to wait for the ambulance to get here and they know what they're doing. Yeah. So it's like, yeah. So I don't know why. When I was, that was, that was, that just came out. I wrote that.

But it was, I said, I think this guy's dead. And I was like, this guy is not very good. Right. So when I was working on it again for this new. record. That's been sitting around since like 2011 years. I've had that part. Change it to Danielle and then just kind of expanded on it with the second verse. And the second verse came really fast and I love the imagery in that one, like a brick of lead in her stead, thousand swords in her mind. Well, because it makes it kind of one of my most favorite kinds

of songs, even though I shouldn't like these, but I do, which is almost like a manic-pixie dream girl. Like the songs about mentally ill women. As everyone knows, this is canon for me. Sure. And there are a lot of songs like this, which I think there should be. I mean, that's a type of muse. Like, a unknowable woman who is complicated and maybe partially broken is an incredibly rich subject manner for songs.

It's very Twin Peaks to me. It's very Laura Palmer. Totally. Like that's kind of what I'm picturing. Somebody is like, yeah. And then I popped truck in my car and there was nothing inside. Like that, that's very murder mystery-ish, you know. But that was just kind of like, once I changed.

changed to Danielle, I was kind of, oh, this could be like, there's something else. There's another thing I can do with this, kind of. It's not just about walking up to a car car. It's kind of like a sort of a premonition thing. Yeah. Like someone like, I'm not kind of like, I could be alive. There's someone in your life. It's like, I just had this bolt idea in my head, like, I think this person's dead.

And I've kind of heard that where people say, like, when so-and-so was in a car accident, my mom bolted up out of bed and called like, are you okay? They somehow knew, you know, or something. Like, and I'm not super into that stuff per se, like, supernatural things. but it's interesting. I don't know that it's super natural. Like in my take is that like we're all tapped into a collective unconscious. And it's just we have a lot of distance from it.

It's part of the reason we meditate, right? It's like part of like TM, I'm sorry not to get into too into the way about TM, but if you guys want to get into meditation, transcendental meditation, especially for creative people, I think is like unparalleled. Yeah. But I don't know if you notice like when you would do it in the group. Would I never do it? Kind of hit harder, huh? It hits harder because you're tapping in.

into, there is a collective unconscious. And I think sometimes when those bolts come through, I think we all really have access to it, but we kind of have too much bullshit in between. We have too much circus in our mind. We have too much ego, whatever. But sometimes you really, and that's why, like, I believe in psychics.

It's not because they're psychic. It's just they've figured out a way that they can tap in more for whatever reason, you know? Yeah, I'm like not super like woo-woo about stuff. But, no, but I actually do agree with a lot of that. And yeah, so I mean, it's interesting. It's a song I wrote when I first started when I first got into meditation, and it's kind of David Lynchy, sort of Twin Peaks-ish.

So yeah, I like that one. It's spooky. Chase wrote that amazing guitar riff. Which just sounds like the lyrics. It feels how the lyrics feel, which I think is like, like I'm saying, like once Chase entered the picture, that's when I think we really became like something special. It's like the relationship.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The great guitar and the chorus and stuff, I guess I stole that from Counting Crows. No, no, no. It's like at the very lightest, just like a reference. I was just interested because I was like, oh, that's a really, and I'm probably being really stupid.

Maybe the Counting Crows one is also a reference. There's probably some Bob Dylan song I don't know about, you know? No, I must have just had that on my head and liked that, you know, subconsciously. It's a beautiful alliteration. It's super cool, man. Yeah, when I came up with it, great guitar was like, oh, I really like that. It's also like it makes kind of like a doesn't go together because it's like great. is this colorless, lifeless thing.

No one would really put on a guitar. Yeah, but then guitar is supposed to be this vibrant, beautiful thing of life, you know? Yeah, totally. Yeah. And, yeah, it's always like a pearl, like sunburst, you know? It's never just like gray.

Yeah. That's the song I wrote entirely in bed with no guitar or anything in front of me, just like... Just with your mind? In my mind. I have a recording on my phone, singing it, like, into my phone super quiet

and I, like, wake alley up. Yeah. Just play. I'm just like... You go crazy. You know. working on it, like all night. I didn't sleep at all and then

recorded it at 7 in the morning just like, but yeah. Just when I couldn't stop, I was trying to go to bed. That's another, God, you know? Yeah, I just couldn't like, I couldn't sleep because I was like so trying to work on it and get it right.

And I was like, I could have to go to bed. You're not going to get it tonight. But I just stayed up all night working on it. And, uh, yeah, I love that one. I'm so proud of it. This is why I'll never read any great songs because I don't sleep with my phone in my room,

amongst other reasons with me and tone deaf and not. I got an idea that blue lights, messing with sleep. so important, huh? And sleep is... You gotta sleep, babe. You gotta get those sleep hours up. Yeah.

Especially as we age. Totally. As we get older and you know, you want to stay good at what you do. Yeah, you want to stay looking nice. One thing I wanted to say, shout out Canobi. Really riffy album

all through, like, so many good riffs. So many songs where I'm like, oh, this is like a pop punk riff, but you did it in a different, like, container. Like, I really like those unexpected moments. Yeah, he's so good. And just like, they're just him.

Like, he... every great artist or whatever can put something about them in the way they do it, you know? Chase is the only one I haven't met. Oh, he's lovely. No, Matt, and I know you, and it's somehow... Matt's great and lovable, but Chase says, yeah, Chase rules. I love Chase.

Great. When we do our Torn's music festival. There we go, you'll meet Chase. Well, the last thing I was going to say is, I don't know if this occurred to you, and I don't know if I'm reading into it, but I think it's very interesting that the last song and the first song are almost, like,

thematically linked because there's, like, a bit of like an anxious anticipation movement around what happened to this person. You know, what happened to Mark 10. And I think that's an interesting book end of the album, you know? Totally. And it is something about when you get older, right? Like you lose touch with people. Yeah.

The worlds that we come from with like music and all this and tangential, you know, things. Like some people don't make it. Some people don't make it. Or some people end up, you know, in more dire straits than others. I used to go to this bar of the song. I kind of wrote after Black Chris died. Oh, God. And it was sort of just about like, because I like to drink.

I drink a lot. Yeah. But I just can't, like, it's so sad that just kind of died of this thing that everybody. Was also doing kind of. And just it's all happening kind of, you know, but it's like, so it's not like it's this total shock. But it's just so sad. No. It's like slow motion kind of thing.

That is really, that really makes so much sense. I mean, rest in peace. Yeah. Our friend Black Chris, Christopher Mathis, he was like a real cornerstone of the Los Angeles punk scene, music scene. Like if you were at any show from 2000 to, you know, 20, he was present and like ubiquitous with his tote bag and screaming and smoking a cigarette. He was a cheerleader for like a music cheerleader, like such a proponent, such a fun person, yeah. fun and hilarious person. I met him in high school before he was black Chris.

He was just Chris. He was just Chris, yeah. Yeah, and he was bullied me kind of, like, roast me all the time. Because I was ska, and he was like Indy Rock. He was in, like, of Montreal and stuff. That was a classic Chris thing. Like, if he, like, you knew he loved you because he would drag your fucking ass to hell. My favorite Chris story is, so I used to go to this bar for me.

That bar would have been Chacha, and Chris was too, but we would always hang out there, and he would always, this is like early Instagram days, and he would always take pictures and post him on Instagram where I looked like fucking disgusting. And I'd be like, Chris, man, what the fuck? And he'd just be like, bitch, that's what you look like. And again, it unlocked something Buddhist for me where I was like, that is technically one version of what I look like.

And then I had some like radical self-acceptance where I was like, he's right, bitch, that is what you look like, and that's fine. Learn to love it. Yeah. He was a really special union. person. But yeah, I mean, we lost him to this, like, disease of alcoholism that

none of us could stop. And also, like, in various states, we all kind of left behind that level of partying, you know? I party still, you know, but it's like, but yeah, but yeah, but

it's the size, it's tricky, you know. When my band got popular and we had, like, mutual friends, he, like, apologized to me one time. He's like, dude, I'm so sorry. Yeah. His voice was so good. It's totally fine.

Like, we're cool. And so we were always like, like, and I never was like, you were mean to me when we were kids, you know? And so we were just friendly, but I was never like friends with them. But like when I saw that he passed away, it was really sad. And that was like around the time I wrote that song. And it was like a couple people that kind of happened at the same time. Just sort of like it wasn't like a, oh my God, can you believe that happened? No, it was it was zero percent.

Oh my God. Can you believe it? It was 100% I always knew this phone call was coming. I just didn't know when. It was heartbreaking. Yeah, yeah. And it was heartbreaking. And what was the most heartbreaking to me about Chris was like that I felt like he made that a cornerstone of his personality when he didn't have to because he was so smart.

He was one of the smartest people I knew. It was the funniest people on the planet. Actually, even though he would roast your ass to hell and he was like so funny in that way, he was so loving and. He would cook for people. Like, he would give you the shirt off his back. That was what was his personality, not the party. You know? Yeah, exactly.

Not being like a crazy psycho or whatever. Yeah. Well, why don't we talk about the, let's get into fan questions. Okay. Okay, number one. From my girl, Amy, also from Torrance. Amy. What is your LBJ order?

When I haven't eaten LBJs in a while, but there's special C. Special C. The 2B and cheese burritos, chips and a drink. It used to be like, I don't know, four bucks or something like that. It's like $33 now. I actually think I looked up on the website sandwich. I think it's like $10.99. Which is so crazy because I really think it was $3.99.

And the best, it was always the best when they would have like the bean and cheese breeders like stacked in a pyramid of foil. So it could kind of like solidify. Right, right. Like all the cheese would just become like a heart. It was just all kind of, yeah. It would compact. Yeah, yeah. Once they were chilling in that in that pile.

So if you went at peak hours, they were, I think, I think, you know, feel like a little better. So yeah, we get a specialcy. I like that. I was maybe a junior deluxeisota burrito girl, but a specialty is also tender to my heart. Okay, this question is

did you punch someone's dad in high school? No. And was there a band called the dad punchers because of it? Yes, that's Elliot's band. Elliot had a band called dad punchers, but I wasn't the person who punched him. Oh, but there was someone.

There was, yeah, yeah. I could name. I've got to have that guy's name at the front of my head. Interesting that the gossip hotline, the myth has taken on that it was you. I know. It's not funny. I wasn't even there. Okay. At DJ Kaufman asks, will they ever make a album longer than 30 minutes? Okay if not. I loved the totally okay if not. I have no idea. Like I don't, I'm never trying to make short songs. I'm never like, it's like, I guess that

opposite of Bob Pollard thing where like it's hard for me to feel like something is worth releasing. So I write a lot of stuff that doesn't get used or it eventually gets used once it's worked on more. And so I'm a really, really brutal editor. So I kind of find our stuff works better in a shorter format and shorter albums with like just what I consider to be like the best of what I've done and kind of get that to kind of make up a little world. Maybe your third act will either be like you guys will come a jam band and absolutely start making a 12 minute long songs or you'll become a short story writer. I mean, I do kind of wish, like, something would click or get into something.

It's like the Grateful Dead or something like that. Don't wish that for yourself. I know, yeah. I don't really like that kind of stuff that much. And so I'm always looking for new things to be inspired by, and I think it would be great if we would manage to actually write a compelling song that was seven minutes long or something like that. I think you could. Yeah.

But don't force it. Yeah, exactly. No, I'm kind of, exactly. I let the songs happen to me. and they are what they are. There is a song that is crossed out on the track list of the new LP. What song got cut and why?

From at Not Follow Measso. I just scratched it. I wrote it. They just spelled something wrong. You're like, there's no secret. It's not a song. It was... Oh, I think it was maybe...

It says I know where Mark Chen lives, but I was gonna... Oh, the sequencing was different maybe. Must have been. Yeah, I don't know. That's my writing, though. Joyce Mann are not really a band that's like hiding little Easter nights for you. You're not Taylor Swifting with these albums.

At All Right, All Right, All Right, asks. Have you ever met Robert Pollard? I haven't, but I saw God of My Voices in 2009 when they were doing that Mad at Road 21 thing. They played at the Will Turn. And I got on stage because I was just like having so much fun. and I sang weed king with Bob Pollard, and I put my arm around him, and I took a swig of his tequila,

which is real tequila. I'm sure. It's not watered down anything. And then I gave it back to him, and then he grabbed me and pulled me back, and he handed me the bottle again, and I did another swig of tequila, sang a little more.

So that's the closest I ever came to me. I mean, that's a beautiful moment, and you should not replace it. Yeah, I mean, I'm such a huge fan. I'd love to play with it. I think they're kind of like semi-retired, but if, I really keep putting out music.

Maybe they're not playing. I think they might be retired from playing. But, you know, people come back. I think they played the FYF where I interviewed you guys. I have, like, a really distinct memory. You know, I think they played the next year, so I was on tour. Okay, yeah, I remember missing it and being kind of bummed. I think I cried.

Yeah, I love them so much. They're such a great band. Okay, these ones I forgot to write down the people, I'm sorry, but what is your favorite song to perform live? I think my favorite song to play live is probably constant headache. Because just it's a crowd pleaser. It's sort of like, it's the right tempo. Right. And, like, as our shows have gotten a little bigger, and, like, everybody at the show knows that one and likes it.

And it's just the right tempo. It's like, it's almost kind of our only song that could actually maybe go to, like, an arena. Totally. Yeah, it's anthemic. Yeah, exactly. And so, I think that's probably my favorite one. Okay. A little too obvious, I know, but I love playing that one.

No. Why? I'm a man of the people. Yeah, you are. You know what? I like to give the people what they want. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

And the last one, this is for the crossover. were big picture heads and cinnophiles. What is your favorite movie? And has any piece of cinema affected the writing of any of your songs? My favorite movie is Mulholy and Drive. It's the same favorite movie as Rivers Cuomo. Is that why it's your favorite movie?

No, I asked him. I was like, because he's into meditation too, and I was talking to him and I was like, have you ever met David Lynch? And he's like, no. I was like, do you like his movies? He's like, I love him. And I was like, do you like, Molhan Drive?

It's like, it's my favorite movie. And I was like, dude, be too. Also, for those you, they don't know, David Lynch, major proponent of Transcendental Meditation, which is part of the reason that we would ask. RIP, David Lynch. RIPD, David Lynch. Home Alone influence. Close second.

Yeah, honestly, it was one of my favorite reasons. I love Home Alone. But we have a song called 21st Dead Rats that references Home Alone. RIPA CAFIN O'Hara. You're such a disease, honestly. Yeah, what a fucking legend. Yeah, seriously. She's just so good.

Best in Show, all that. You know, her sister is on November. respond to Monster by Morrissey? No. Yeah. What? Mary Margaret O'Hara? What?

Isn't that crazy? I didn't uncover that in my sister's research. I should have called you. She's a musician, I believe. Incredible bandsplain moment from you to me. Anytime. And then my last question for you is, will you come back on bandsplain? Of course, anytime.

What would you do? Another artist. Yeah. Red Cross? I don't. Is that more of a chase? Or Allie. Or Allie.

Yeah, I don't know enough about him. I love them. I loved the movie. The movie was great. What about when we do our 24-hour guided by Voices telethon? I could do a lot of Guy Boy Voices. You can come play also a cover. Yeah, I would totally do that. Yeah. And I could do my best on God of Voices. I know a lot about Gotta Boy Voices, but you have so much material. That one is, again, I've always made the joke, but I think I'm being very serious.

The only way I'd ever do it is if it's like an Event-I's thing where I literally have to do it for 24-hour straight. I would do it. You would do it? Yeah. Well, yeah. We'll just slam Celsius. and like laugh. We could have a couple of guests

so like you guys could like tap in and tap out, you know? You're going to do the whole thing though? I have to be. I'm the host of bands playing. Yeah. That would be awesome. It's like an endurance thing.

Yeah, exactly. By like, by the time we get to like, you know, 2010, I'm going to be like absolutely fucked and looped and just being like, okay, then there was so soft. Well, Bob Pollard did that. He went to the doctor

and his doctor said, I had a dream. You played a show where you played a hundred songs and the tickets were $100. And he was like, okay. So, his doctor had a dream. They did that, and then they did it.

And they played in L.A. And how long did that? Well, there's 100 songs is two minutes. So how many, that's like 24 hours. I think it was like over four hours. Wow. Yeah, they played 100 songs. That's incredible.

Isn't that amazing? Yeah. Yeah. So that's like to do the God of Voice's one is very, to do that. That's cool. Yeah, you have to do it to honor the way that they would do it. Yeah. That's super cool.

Which is like balls to the wall. I'm into it. I'm there. Yeah, yeah. All right. will include you. Barry, this was so fun. I'm so glad that you came to do this. I feel like I learned a lot more about you. I'm proud to know you. I'm proud to be from the same hometown-esque-ish. And I love Joyce Banner. Thank you so much. It was really nice to be here. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. Come back next week for a new episode of Bandsplain. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplaine. Our guests today were Amanda Dobbins and Barry Johnson of Joyce Manor. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges, with help from Justin Sales. Video production was by Jacob Corbett and Sarah Reddy. Executive producers for Bandsplant are Gina Delvec and me, Yossi Salick. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer

Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks for our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennacy and L. Burrito Jr., which I think is technically not in Torrid. although I'm not sure it's on the PCH, go give it a visit. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplay on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.