Bankless - Boys Club | Layer Zero

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

The Boys Club is a DAO-in-training that is building products, resources, and communities to make the crypto space a more welcome place for women. Crypto has traditionally not been a particularly women-friendly place, with a sub-culture of basement-dwelling libertarian bros. But that is changing. There are an increasing number of ways to break into crypto, and the Boys Club is tackling this head on. Natasha Hoskins and Deana Burke are co-founders of the community, and they note that women have far more presence at IRL crypto events than on the internet. And Boys Club members rep the Boys Club. Hard. With a strong mission, sound goals, and immaculate vibes, the Boys Club have already blazed trails, but there is a strong future ahead of them. ------ 📣 ZERION | Trade Across 7 Networks and 500+ protocols https://bankless.cc/Zerion  ------ 🚀 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER:          https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/  🎙️ SUBSCRIBE TO PODCAST:                 http://podcast.banklesshq.com/  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:  ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum  🍵 MATCHA | SMART ORDER ROUTING https://bankless.cc/Matcha  🚀 SLINGSHOT | LAYER 2 SOCIAL TRADING https://bankless.cc/Slingshot  🏦 GEMINI | TURN FIAT INTO CRYPTO https://bankless.cc/Gemini  🦁 BRAVE | THE BROWSER NATIVE WALLET  https://bankless.cc/Brave  🦄 UNISWAP | DECENTRALIZED FUNDING https://bankless.cc/UniGrants  ------ Topics Covered: 0:00 Intro 4:30 Natasha & Deana of Boys Club 8:52 Onboarding Women Into Web3 15:56 The Boys Club Vibe 22:56 But What IS Boys Club? 26:34 The Name 28:41 Lessons in Scaling 33:40 More than Mining 36:10 What Women Have that Crypto Needs 40:30 Pet Peeves 42:42 Interviewing Each Other 49:14 I Think This Is For You 52:02 Maximally Successful Boys Club 56:41 Sharing Stories 59:28 How to Get Involved ------ Resources: Natasha on Twitter https://twitter.com/natashaghoskins?s=20  Deana on Twitter https://twitter.com/medeana?s=20  Boys Club on Twitter https://twitter.com/BoysClubCrypto?s=20  BoysClub.vip https://boysclub.vip/  ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/p/bankless-disclosures 

Welcome to Layer Zero. Layer Zero is a podcast of unscripted conversations with the people that make up the Ethereum community. Crypto is built by code, but is composed by people, and each individual member of the crypto community has their own story to tell. Cypherpunks understood that the code they write impacts the people that use it, and Layer Zero focuses on the people behind the code because Ethereum is people all the way down and it always has been. Today on Layer Zero, I'm talking with Natasha and Dina from the Boys Club. The Boys Club is an organization focusing on onboarding women into Web3. And that's why I think the name the Boys Club is just so fantastically awesome. Crypto has famously not been a very welcoming place towards women, especially during the era of just being a bunch of basement-dwelling libertarians.

And before the world of culture and NFTs really took forth, there was just not a place where women felt welcomed. And the Boys Club is looking to tackle this problem head on. And there's been a number of these conferences I've gone to around the world where women seem to seem to have much more presence in crypto in real life than they do on the internet. And all the crypto ladies that I've met while going to conferences all seem to have their part in the boys club and rep it really, really hard. And so I wanted to get the founders of the boys club on the show just to talk about the boys club, what its mission is, what its goals are, what its vibe is, and what it can do for onboarding women into Web3. Both Natasha and Dina have their own day jobs. Dina works at the Selo Foundation, which many listeners are

familiar with. Yet when the sun goes down and the 9 to 5 is over, they are all about Boys Club and onboarding women into Web 3. So if you are a lady who's looking to make lady friends to onboard yourselves and your other lady friends into Web 3, perhaps the Boys Club is for you. They do in real life meetups all over the world because they understand the value of in real life meetups. And so I hope you enjoy this conversation with Natasha and Dina from the boys club right after we talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that makes the show possible. The Brave browser is the user first browser for the Web3 internet with built in privacy and ad blocking to keep you in charge of your digital footprint. And inside the Brave browser,

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and your crypto rewards immediately lands in your Gemini account the instant you swipe your Gemini credit card. Gemini is available in all 50 states and more than 50 countries worldwide. So if you're looking to upgrade your crypto exchange, sign up at Gemini with Gemini.com slash go bankless and get $15 of Bitcoin after you trade $100 or more within the first 30 days. That's gemini.com slash go bankless. Dina and Natasha of Boys Club. Welcome to Bankless. How are you guys doing? Thanks so much for having us. You're doing good. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So how does the story of Boys Club start? Where did the idea of Boys Club originate and why does the world need Boyd's Club? Let's start with Dina. Well, honestly, we just see a lot of very smart, very capable

women still sort of just watching what's happening in Web 3 and Crypto from the sidelines. And we wanted to figure out a way to give all those women and people an access point. So that's sort of the genesis or the founding feeling behind Boys Club. Is Hachar, you want to add anything? I mean, where Boys Club started is really a pool site in Vegas. So it's a very good beginning. I mean, the dynamic between Dina and I, Dana and I have been business partners for a long time and really good friends and like totally obsessed with each other for a while.

And the dynamic in our relationship had always been, or like for the past few years, has been Dina super into crypto, talking about it all the time, just constantly and continually telling me, you've got to get into it. You've got to. So much is happening. Like, this is for you. And me just being like, I love it for you. Really cool. But not for me. Like, not my vibe.

Just like, not for me. And so that was always sort of the dynamic. And then we were on this trip in Vegas. And it was right around the same times that like a lot culturally in my world started to happen with crypto like NFTs and Dow's and like all these sort of projects popping off. So it was more top of mind. And Dino's like, we're going to spend three hours and I'm just going to download you on like what's happening in the space. We're going to look through some decks. We're going to go to crypto Twitter. We're going to look through discords. And like I'm going to really brief you on like, what? what I think is happening here, what I think the opportunity is for you. And I was just like totally sold. At the end of it, I was like, okay, I'm in. Like, what is it crypto people say? I'm crypto-pilled. Like, I was like, okay, I'm ready for this.

And so I was totally excited about it, but I also felt like this major urgency around it to like bring all of my friends into it, like all of my peers who, as Dina said, are like totally sitting on the sidelines of what's happening. and also give them a better sense of like what the opportunity is for them and why it's important. So that's sort of where it began. And I think for us it was really clear that that social moment, like that in-person interaction of someone you really trust, downloading you on why this is important that you're involved and what is happening is really special. And I think for a lot of the women in my life, I know is sort of required to get. them to understand why they should care about Web 3 and why they should care about crypto.

So there's a lot more I could say, but I don't know, Dina, if you have anything to add to that. Yeah, I think, I mean, to sort of piggyback on that, like, it was really the driving insight was like, man, for a lot of people, for a lot of women, like, this learning needs to happen in community. And for Natasha, that made the most sense, like, IRL. And for other folks, like, maybe that can transcend online as well. but like either way, whatever the access point is, like, it needs to happen in a space where you feel like you can ask questions, you can get stuff wrong. Like, I have a lot of one-on-ones with the women in our community. And they're sort of this shared sentiment where they're like, I feel like too much time has passed. And I have like really foundational questions about what's happening here that like I'm too nervous to ask now. And so they see Boys Club is really a way to like just have the space. to ask whatever and talk about whatever and know that they're not going to get like shamed or judged. Like we cherish everyone like wherever they are in the journey. And that's really like a

defining value for us. Yeah. So Natasha, what you were talking about I think is pretty universal because everyone wants to get their friends and family into crypto. It's very much of like, yo, this thing's real. And I just need to find the right words and the right like way to navigate this to get you to also believe that it's real. And at some point in time, I kind of think that everyone will have that moment. And that's been my experience with, you know, being frustrated about trying to get my friends into crypto and they just don't see what I see. But also, I would imagine it's a completely additional hurdle with women, just because there is just different dispositions and different dynamics about how ladies might approach this space, especially when like, first off, computer

sciences is heavily male dominated. And then also finance is heavily male dominated. And then also finance is heavily male dominated. And I've always had like this thesis as when you combine those two, it doesn't get like linearly more male dominated. It gets like exponentially more male dominated. So like how have you guys helped like try to like navigate the waters of onboarding women into web three and and what tricks have you learned that has worked out? Yeah. I mean, totally. I think that for me, it was always really layered in like gaming culture and like meme culture and a lot of stuff that I just like didn't get or wasn't involved in. And like that was sort of like the overarching layer on top of like all this other stuff like computer science and finance that are not like my primary thing. And so there was so much sort of like work through to try to get to what was happening in this space. And I think that that has been sort of universally true as we've talked to women and onboarded them to Web3. And I think like what has been really successful. is talking about stuff that we're into and pulling it back into what's happening in crypto,

like doing the Kardashians in Web 3, like, where do the Kardashians make sense in the cryptoverse? And like that like seriously landing for people, like texts and like DMs being like, this is the first time that I like understand what the metaverse is. And I'm like, yeah, it's Calabasas. Like that whole thing has like been really successful. And like it's us layering it with like skincare and pop culture and things that like I'm into and Dina's into and like a lot of my friends like and have that like click like aha moment for the people in our community. And that's yeah, really different than I think when I was looking at these like crypto Twitter and Discord channels and all this stuff that was Dina was showing me.

I was just like, man, this is not layered in my language. Like this isn't speaking to me. And so finding like ways to produce content and education and explanation. around this in a way that is culturally relevant, I guess, to me and my friends. Dina, do you want to add anything to that? Yeah. Well, I just echoing what Natasha says, I think that the language and how everything is coded, it's subtle, but it makes, it's an instant read for someone to judge whether or not a

space is for them or not. And I think that I'll just speak for me personally, like sports metaphors, finance metaphors, like, just don't land for me. And so I think, like, us finding new ways to talk about some of these concepts in crypto and drawing them into, again, things that we're interested is has been really effective. And I also think that there's another insight, which is total universal, which is, like, giving people a really wide surface area of exposure to different things that are happening in crypto and around Web3. And letting, like, everyone's sort of way into Web3 is different, right? Like, Natasha is really interested in art. Like the conversation around NFTs and ownership and Providence, like all that is going to really appeal to her.

You know, some of my friends are more into like the D5 protocols once they get into it. Like that is the thing for them. Like for me, it's something else. And so I think like one thing that we found a lot of success with is like when we're having conversations with beginners and we're having conversations with people that we're onboarding, it's like we want to expose them really wide. We want to cast a really wide net of like crypto is an enabling technology. It's only as interesting as it is as the sort of content you bring to it. it, right? And as the sort of direction that you decide to take it. And so I think like letting people sort of explore different aspects of it and find their little lane or their little niche or

their little spark has been really huge for us. Yeah. And I think one thing I want to add to that is like a lot of conversations we have and a lot of things that we talk about on it. Like Dina and I as we think about Voice Club is like there's a lot obviously happening in crypto. There's so much innovation. That's really exciting. But a lot of times. they're for women, they're looking around and they're thinking, none of this is like interesting to me. None of this speaks to like the things that I like or enjoy or like, I don't know what podcast to listen to because it's not talking about the other stuff that I'm into. And my like response to that is like, yes, because these things have been primarily built and deployed and communicated by

men and they're not made by women. And that's why it's so urgent that you join boys. Club that you get onboarded to what's happening, that you get into Web 3 because your input is so vital to what's being built right now. And like your creativity and design and thoughtfulness and interests are required for this space to be interesting to more people. And that was it for me when I had that conversation with Dina like my light balled moment like it felt so important for me to participate in this in some way because I knew, okay, if I don't, it will be all of these decisions around how dows are formed, how power is distributed, how the financial system is built in the future, are going to be decided by the same sort of cast of characters that has always been decided by.

And it's sort of like on me at this point with an understanding of how powerful this technology is and how powerful this movement is to build products and services and communities that speak to a broader audience and speak to a female audience to bring them into what is happening. And so I think that like giving the people in our community and women the understanding of like, yes, you look around and you're not really that interested. You're like, I don't know, maybe this NFT project, like maybe this social Dow. And I'm like, come in and build the thing that you're into. And like, then you'll bring more people that are like you and that are like minded.

And so for me, that was like, that's been really important and a huge part of like what makes me excited about what we're building. I think the timing of when Boys Club emerged makes a lot of sense, too, because during 2018, 2020, we didn't really have this NFT phenomenon. We didn't really have Web 3. Web 3 was kind of a lost term. And what we really had were people that were really good at spending like 16 hours in their basement on Discord. And that activity is not an activity I would associate with with ladies. Ladies don't like to be in. their basements staring at their laptop for 16 hours a day, ladies are far more social. And crypto started to become really, really social towards the end of 2020, 2020.

That's kind of when we actually started to form a cultural identity for ourselves, something that we never had during the bear market. And we maybe briefly had during 2017, but it was terrible because it was all ICOs. So I think there's actually no coincidence that something like the Boys Club has come about during the time where there's actually like a culture and a vibe here rather than just like a bunch of libertarian basement dwellers. Well, I'll echo that and say, as someone who tried to build a product for women that was in market, so I built a Bitcoin wallet that was designed for a teenage girl. So I've always been really passionate about the, since I've gotten to Crypto in around 2017,

like really passionate about finding ways to make this space more accessible, finding the access point. I built a wallet and launched it in 2018. And man, yeah, no one cared. Absolutely no one cared. And it was not the thing at all. But yeah, I think times are much more interesting right now. And I think people are like starting to see what the opportunity is or starting to be curious, at least, what the opportunity is for themselves in this.

So I want to learn for myself and also for the listeners, what does a day in the life of boys club look like? Just like if somebody's in Discord or the groups or I know you guys have a lot of emphasis on in real life meetups. Yeah. For people that are for, if the boys club curious and the ladies out there who are perhaps potential members of the boys club, what does a day in the life of boys club look like? Yeah. So I can answer to this just because I just came off of a couple of calls that I think will be

interesting. So first of all, like, we're perfect for wherever you are on your journey. Like if you're totally green just starting, like, we cherish you. We can't wait to help you and to like hug you and to figure this out with you. But we're also like there are women, there are a lot of women in our community that are like dabblers or looking to pivot professionally. And so there's resources within Boys Club that are actually becoming much more in demand around like recruiting and conversations about like what does it mean to move into Web 3 more professionally or more permanently. And then also we have like a few just stone cold pros that are in the group. And like I'd say at any point in wherever women are in.

their journey, like the only thing that we ask is that you come with a generosity to help the other people in the group sort of learn and that you're curious to sort of figure it all out with us because we certainly don't have to figure it out. Like we're totally just learning alongside everyone else. So make no claims to be to be pros. So day in the life, I just got off a call. So we have community calls with women who want to connect and to talk. And the one that we just had, which is a problem that we were just all starting to troubleshoot in the Discord was we did a tutorial for Pool Together. So we love Pool Together. We on our last town hall, we were like, okay, we're all going to jump in together. We're going to do this. No loss savings. It's awesome. It's a great, like, lower risk activity for people who are like just getting started. And we got everyone set up on Dharma. We're all jumping in. And then we find out Dharma is getting acquired. There's sun setting the wallet. So there was like a little panic moment where everyone did. know what to do. So on the one-on-one call, we were trying to figure out what she should do. And then we jumped into the Discord and got some advice from someone around sort of like how we, how we move everything around.

So that's like on a regular day. And then we also do events. We have a lot of events coming up. I'll let Natasha speak to this. Yeah. So we have a lot of events upcoming. I would say that it's been really cool that our sort of core premise is events and like in person activities. But there's been all of these very organic gatherings that are happening that have been so fun. We're like once a week, at least there's something happening where like the boys, girls are getting together and doing something fun, like getting, you know, natural wine and pizza or like going to a talk at the Williamsburg Hotel. So those are happening all the time.

And it was really fun this past Monday. We went to one at the Williamsburg Hotel. Our friend Evan was speaking. And we got there and I was like, wow, there's a lot of like a lot of women here. And so many of them were coming up to me. And they're like, are you, Natasha? Like, I'm a boys club. And I was like, oh, my gosh, it's amazing.

And, like, she started chatting. And there's just, like, a group of, like, women that just kept, like, multiplying. And this woman comes up to me. And she's like, what's going on? Like, where are you guys from? We were chatting. And she was like, I was here last weekend. And there were only dudes here.

Like, what is happening? And I was like, got to join the Discord. Like, it's happening. So that felt like a lot of validation for me personally. I was like, this is really great. So that's been really fun. And then our in-person events that are like our true like community events that are onboarding at mass are our next one is February 9th. And we're doing it at the Georgia room, 100 women.

We'll do like a brief keynote on Web 3 and what's happening and why you should care about it. And then a panel of like total rock stars are going to be fielding questions. And people like texting their questions and they are very, they totally run the gamut. Like it'll be everything from like, what is a wallet and how do I get it to like, let's talk about staking. Like it's totally across the, across the gamut. So it's really cool to see all of those women in the same room like, yeah, just learning together and caring about this thing collectively. And there's also just like a really fun vibe. Like it's a party.

Like our first event was like we, it was so scrappy. It was like Dina and I. And we had rented this venue and they were like, hey, you guys have to leave. And I was literally like telling all the girls like, you guys like, please leave. Like we have paid for a very small window. And you're like really pushing it out. So it's a really fun, fun atmosphere and just a good hang. Yeah.

So I want to ask the meta question. Like what actually is it? Is it like a social club? I don't think you guys have a token. So it's not a Dow. What actually is Boys Club? So we're a wannabe Dow. We're doing some Dow baby steps right now.

We're actually in the Sea Club. final, we're a C cup finalist. So we'll learn about that this week. But yeah, being a Tao is really important to us. And it's 100% the direction that we're headed. And yeah, we just like, we're building this thing alongside a community and we want everyone to share that upside. And we're like fully, fully committed to that becoming a reality. I think for us it's just like, is a token, is an NFT membership? We're still trying to figure out the logistics of it. But like, spiritually, emotionally, physically, we're headed in that direction, for sure. Yeah. I think like there's this moment of onboarding where someone is sold. They're like,

okay, I get this. I want to be in. And then it's like, okay, do I like go by Eath? Like, what is the thing that like makes you in and like gets you invested and contributing? And so for us, that's why like a doubt was really important because we wanted to build something alongside these women that are sort of like onboarding and getting into it and making sure. that they are sharing in the upside of what we're building. And I think for both Dean and I, this is not our first thing that we founded. Like we both worked on other projects. And we did the thing where we built something and put it out into the world and tried to put a community around it and realize like, wow, nobody wants this thing.

And like, this is not good timing or this isn't quite right or whatever. And with Boys Club, it was just so it's always been like, let's get community into this thing. Like, let's get a group of women together and figure out what they want. and what they need and how we can serve them. And then after that, like, figure out what it is. And it's like, okay, yes, this is a social club. This is a wannabe doubt. Like, that feels very clear to us because the women in it have really dictated what they want. I think that's very resonant with how crypto works at large, right? Like, hey, let's get all the people together and then we'll decide, like, what's next rather than deciding what's next and trying to get a bunch

of people to rally around it. It seems just part of the inclusive vibe of this thing. It's like Hey, we know that we all want to be in the same room, but that's all that we know. And like, the rest is up to us. Yeah. I think that there's like a real patience that's needed in designing for the emergence of like, if it's a product studio, right? And we really want some idea to emerge from the community and we want to be scrappy about how we validate it.

Like we have to be patient. And we have to like really sort of like deeply understand the needs and wants and values of this group in order to like effectively build for it. right so like that's sort of the work that we're all doing everyone in the community is doing now by having those conversations by going to the meetups like we're all just like trying to like figure each other out and figure out what this thing is and then i just like have to believe that there will be some point in time where some idea will emerge or we're like okay i think this is interesting and this is worth putting some weight behind so like let's all pool our collective like social talent capital

resources to like build it together. So that's the hope. That's the dream. So I think I've actually done this interview at the service by not asking the most obvious question. Why the name Boys Club? I mean, obviously it's a little tongue in cheek to be like, um, Curb does Boys Club. And then we were like throwing around some ideas. Like we went back and forth. We almost called it wives and girlfriends because Dina's husband is British and there's like the whole wags thing. So we almost did that, but like it wasn't quite landing. And we just kept calling a boys club, like just texting each other like, okay, about boys club. And then finally we're like, it's just boys club. Let's just do it, whatever. So that's kind of her. Yeah, I think also there's

like an important aspect of like not taking ourselves too seriously and having a lot of fun, which is like a crucial value for the community. And Natasha and I both personally, like, it's like fun. We're having a good time. It's not a serious thing. And that felt like really well distilled in the name. So we were excited when it sort of started to land. Yeah. We had been working on a travel startup before this. And it was just so like branding wise. Like it was everything had to be like very elevated, very clean, like super crisp. And branding is like my world and what I like to do. And like it was just so very stressful around like what we were putting out there. And so Boys Club was just a truly creative outlet of just like, yeah, that's a great, let's do that. Let's stop that on. Let's put it out. And like,

what made us laugh, like, what makes us feel like the internet is like fun and which is so crypto. And so when it came together and like we got this logo together and we pushed it out there, like, honestly, it's been such a snowball of like a thing that's happened. But everything has come from this feeling of just like, how is this fun for everybody? How is there like humor and all of the things that we're doing? So I feel like the name sort of fits, fits that whole vibe. I think it's great. talking to Ryan earlier today and he's like, yeah, dude, that's one of the best names in crypto I've been able to find. So while growing out and scaling the organization, both in like just numbers of individuals, but also vibes, but also vibes, but also very important. Like, what lessons have

you guys have you guys, like, taken a leaf out of any other organizations that are also trying to work on this effort? I mean, yeah, something we're thinking a lot about is like, how do you, we are very, like, brand centric and how do you have like a brand centric? And how do you have like a brand centric Dow where you have like all these contributors and all these people working on different projects and different aspects of what we're putting out into the world. And it's like a very present question and top of mine every day. Dina like loves to joke that I'm like very bossy in Taipei. It's been a real stretch for me where I'm like, okay, other people just like doing their thing. This is what this is. And so that has definitely been a learning curve of like how do we empower our

community to take the spirit of what we're doing and make sure that it remains consistent in everything that we're doing. Like, as Dina talked about, like, a generosity of spirit in like every channel and platform that we're doing, like, whether it's a Twitter space, whether it's an in-person event, whether it's like a blog or a newsletter, like making sure that there is like a welcomeness in which we're talking about these topics. So we are learning a lot about how to do that and how to equip people because everybody at this point who's joining has been attracted to Boys Club because of some element of what we're doing, whether it is the humor and like the good vibes or whether it is that openness and generosity. So we want that everybody who is contributing is invested in

keeping that as we scale. So yeah, it's an open question that we're still really trying to figure out. Sure is. But there's, I mean, so many people are working on inclusivity in the space and making crypto a more diverse community, which is amazing. And there's so many projects that we look at every day and are inspired by and like Web3 Familia is amazing. and 40 acres Dow and Chi Phi and Web Through Baddies. There's all these really incredible communities that we want to celebrate and think what they're doing is incredible. And we're by no means the only people doing this in some way.

So we definitely look to them and are inspired by the work that they're doing. Slingshot is a decentralized trading platform that combines the performance and ease of a centralized exchange with the openness and transparency of Defi, creating the world's most powerful trading platform. Slinghot aggregates liquidity from all of Defi in order to find the best price on thousands of crypto assets. Every token on SlingShot comes with a price chart and trade logs to give you insights into the market's activity in real time.

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So it's maybe not always the same exact question, but it's this as simple. behavior that I see a lot with women, which is that they come across a term or concept or an idea. So then this happened to me personally. It was whatever. 2014, I was reading an article about Bitcoin. And I came across the term mining. And I was like, I was like underground with a pickax and a shovel. Like I was like could not get it through my thick head.

Like what were we talking about here? What if it was mining? Excuse me. I do not. Just not compute. And so I came across that and I was like, this isn't for me. I can't get here. I'm like, this is not for me.

Set it aside. And I left just a phenomenal amount of money on the table in doing that. Like just the amount like I just actually can't think about it. Like I have to I cannot think about it. It makes me start to sweat. But I do see that like in in the conversations that we're having like there's this thing where people get stuck on an idea or concept. And it does happen a lot with mining like I got to admit like that is.

one that definitely gets people sort of freaked out. And I think for women in particular, like, there's this sense that they have to understand everything that's happening completely in order to be able to participate in what's happening. And like part of like what we've been trying to do is like just over and over again, be like, it's cool. Just set it aside. Like, you'll come back to mining in a couple days or a couple months or years or maybe you'll come back to it and you'll never understand it. And like, that's okay. And like just sort of that mental shift of being able to like have the flexibility to be like, okay, I don't fully understand what like this liquidity pool thing is, but I'm going to keep persevering past it. And like it's going to be

there and like that's okay. And I can still be here is something that like is the number one message that we try to get out to people and when we're speaking to them. Yeah, I would imagine like crypto is associated with risk, right? And men are historically like the big risk takers, right? We are able to put more on the table than ladies. And I would imagine that that is partly with kind of what's going on here where it's kind of all or nothing. Crypto is very all or nothing. And if you're not ready to give it your all, then like sometimes crypto like choose you up and spits you out. But that's not actually true. Maybe it once was back in the very early days. But as crypto develops more and more and more, like people are able to like more specialize and really just find corners of the industry that they

only care about this thing. Exactly. Right. And like at this point in crypto like you actually don't have to know about mining at all, I would say. 100%. Yeah. And it's becoming more and more true every day. I think that there's like enough in like art and music and like philanthropy. There's enough really interesting little things that like I do think that people are able to find their moment. But we just got to you know, get them there. Yeah. It was really. funny we were talking to one of our contributors the other day and she was like yeah i was talking to this dude and he was like he went to pen and all of his pen buddies like have a discord channel where they just like share like essentially like deal float like nfts and stuff like that and she was like and they're just making

like so much money like how can we like bring that into boys club like i want to do da da da and i was and we were chatting through it and one of the things i said was like yeah i think part of that is just like a dude thing where they're like dude you got to get in you got to do it you got to do it where i'm like i would never ever tell my friend like buy it right now you got to like i would always be like if you like the project if it speaks to you if you think it's beautiful like there's just sort of this lightness around it like this real like got to get just consent and like just think about it with women that like is different and like i want to like in some ways protect that but i also am like push past that a little bit because there's a lot of opportunity for you here yeah does

FOMO lands differently with women than it does with boys. I mean, I have the worst case of FOMO in the world. Like, everybody who knows me knows that it's so strong. So I don't know. That's maybe why I'm doing this, but. Yeah, I think it's not quite, it's not quite as like palpable in our discord as it is in some of these other discords that I'm a part of where you see people just like lose their mind. I don't, we, it never gets to like hysteria levels, which I, I've seen elsewhere in Web 3.

So what do do women have that the crypto industry really, really needs? Ooh, what a question. Honestly, I think part of it, there's definitely like the social element that I feel really excited about. Obviously, that's

why we're doing in-person events. And I think like when I was listening to your podcast a few days ago about the metaverse and something that I'm like just really trying to wrap my head around because I'm just like, I have no interest in going to an online cafe. Like, I just, it's just like, I know it's so much more than that, but I'm just like,

what is this? Like, what's happening here? And I think, like, for me, what I'm excited about is like, what does this technology enable that allows for like more connection and more community and in-person experiences that are, like, elevated and encouraged by the technology that's being built? And I think there's some things that are doing some, obviously there's some projects that are doing that and there's people who are thinking about that. And like, I think of like friends with benefits obviously has figured out this like amazing way to bring this technology into something that's very social. And for me, that's what's exciting and what I think women can bring that's like missing in some ways.

And like obviously I'm speaking very broadly. But I think having more experiences that are in real life that breed connection with one another and more. memories and moments that really stick with you and how you bring value to those through crypto and through the things that are happening in this space, I think is what I want to see more of and I think what women can bring to the table. But I don't know, Dina, what would you say? Yeah, I think it's a really good question. I mean, I think for me, it's actually like not about women. It's just about more people. It's just about more people from different backgrounds with different sets of experiences that have different values.

Like I just, I want to see more folks sitting around the table. And like, you know, women, like, we can speak to a certain type of women really well. But like, it doesn't stop there, like, by no means. And so I think like, it's just like, it's just more. It's just more people, more experiences, like, because that, like, no matter what creates a richer future for all of us to be living in. And honestly, like, Natasha was saying earlier, like, We're making decisions now. Like decisions are being made now.

People are building products. People are designing products that like we're going to be living in in like two minutes. And I think like just like trying to get more people in this design process for what is Web3. What is the metaphors? Like it's so critical, so crucial. Like the sort of money and power aspect of it aside, like of course I think that that's, I want that to start flowing around to the table. as well, but like it's almost even deeper than that where it's like, man, like,

that's going to be our life. And like, we got to get some other folks in to help us figure out what that looks like. One last thing I would say is just like more fun. Like, yeah, it's so serious all the time. And like, how can you just make it a little bit more fun? That's definitely something I got extremely fatigued throughout like 2018 and 2019. It's like, I was waiting for crypto to become fun again. Yeah. And it took a while for that to happen. have to say, it became really, really fun when all of these in real life events started happening. Yeah, totally. I didn't really notice it until after the fact, but like 2018, 2019, I got through the bear market

by hanging out inside of this one Discord, which I am now reflecting on. There's one lady in that, like, 40 to 50 person discord. And then I've gone out to all of these in real life events, mainly in New York. And the number of Web3 power ladies that I've met are off the charts. Like, I've met more lady friends than I have due to do. friend while going to all these in real life events. And that's actually how I came to learn about Boys Club is because I met all the ladies that are in Boys Club. And so I do have to say, like, the discovery of all the Web 3 Power Ladies has happened around the same time where

crypto became a lot more fun. Another question I have for you guys is, what's one thing about the crypto industry that just like really just rubs you the wrong way? It's like, oh, God, it's this thing again. I hate this. Get this out of my face. I think this is true for a lot of people, but like the sort of tribalism of it is something that like I don't love. And like I, it's a, it's part of why that like, crypto Twitter is is so valuable for me, like professionally, personally, personally, financially. But like spiritually and emotionally, I find a lot of the conversations. Like I have a lot of feelings about a lot of the conversations that I see. And I think it's like rooted from this like sort of heard mentality thing that, yeah, I don't love.

But I'd say that's, that's me. But I know that's like sort of shared by a lot of people. I don't think that that's like a very interesting insight. What about you, Natasha? She's newer. So she has a fresher perspective. I'm such a way to it. I really, like the dunking on somebody is just like so I hate it.

I'm just like, what is the point of this? Like, that was like a lot of my first experience on Twitter. I was just like, okay, this seems like so much a part of the culture is like dunking on somebody. And like I just don't really understand when so much about this is like about like the heart of it is like financial inclusivity and like a path forward for us all. And then to be just like got you. I'm just like, that doesn't click for me. Dina, if you were the one interviewing Natasha or vice versa, what question would you ask? We'll start with Dina.

I would ask Natasha what has surprised her the most about her journey in Web 3 over the past few months. What has been the most surprising aspect of it for you? I mean, my whole experience of Web 3 has been with Boys Club. so like it's impossible to separate those two things. And I think how much it's working, like that has truly shocked me. Like I thought we were going to, the original idea for Boys Club was literally like, let's bring 10 of our friends on my roof and like have a chakoudery board and like pull up a Dow deck and like go through it and be like, you should get into this.

Like that was what it was. And it just worked like so much. that has just clicked for people. And I've been floored by that. And I have worked on, like, having had a startup and just every day, you're trying to get people to be excited about what you're doing. Like, that is the work of every day. And when it's not working, it is so hard. And you know it every day. You're like, nobody cares on this thing. And then when it's working, like the shift, the, gear shift has felt so extreme that I've been really surprised by it. And like, it speaks a hundred percent

to the incredible people that are a part of Boys Club and like the women that are participating and just have such a warmth to share with one another. And like, it's not any credit to what Dina and are doing. I think it's just a need that is right place, right time and like right people who are excited about it. So that has, honestly, I've been really shocked by that. Natasha, what would you ask, Dina. Dina, I want you to talk about, like, what got you into crypto in the first place? Like, I feel like it's so much part of who you are. So what was interesting to you about crypto?

What was like your aha moment? Well, the first thing, what got me, like, my hook was, so it was 2017, it was like alt-coin bad day trading. So the behavior was basically gambling. I was basically just gambling and doing it very badly, losing money. Like, it was not good, but there was just so much price action that was happening at that time that I was like, man, this is how I want to get into that. So I started there, but it, you know, you fall down the rabbit hole, as everyone says, fell down the rabbit hole. For me, it was Bitcoin at first, and I was learning about it and just felt so inspired and excited by what a new money that was being built from the ground up with a new set of values at the helm, like what that could mean for things like financial inclusion.

and banking the unbanked. So that was the thing for me that got me just really juiced. And at the same time, like, 1017, Lambo's in front of crypto conferences. Like, it was a different period. And I was also just sort of recognizing that there was a systemic issue around access and accessibility for, frankly, the folks who I felt could benefit from it the most. So that's like the sort of my mission. And that was my mission then.

that's why I started that first company and that's what I see through with Boys Club today. But I'm just so excited by just building new access. Like there's this huge amount of wealth and power that's being transferred. Like huge, huge, we're all seeing it. It's running right before our eyes. And like I just want to create spaces to ensure that like we're not just like copying, pasting the same hierarchies of wealth and powers exist with traditional systems onto crypto, onto what's happening now. And so that's sort of like my reason for being. That's my mission.

Great question. Natasha. Thank you. So I'm sure you guys are faced with this scenario a lot. And each scenario is obviously different, but when you are talking to the CryptoCurious ladies of Web3 who are trying to get into the space and perhaps they say something along the lines of,

I don't think this is for me. Obviously, the answer as to why it's for you is very, very unique to every single individual. But if you're just meeting for this person for the first time, maybe you've only talked to them for five or ten minutes, and they've already given you the, I don't think this is for me, a line. What do you say next?

I mean, usually I ask, like, why do they feel that way? And honestly, most of the time it's rooted in an experience that made them feel stupid. Like, they did something. They felt dumb. And then they thought, oh, this, I got to go. Like, I'm not going to do this. And I feel like that's been so much of our community calls are basically therapy. Totally.

Where people are like, oh, I feel really dumb. Like, can I ask me this question? or like I had this experience online or in person or listening to something. And it's like undoing that work first because I think people are clouded by that negative experience. And so I would say more often than not, like that's been what has happened. And they've sat at a dinner party where a bunch of dudes who know very little about crypto are talking about crypto. And they're like, oh, they get it. And like, I've been at those dinner parties.

And I've been like, we don't know. I know what's going on. you're actually wrong. And I'm like, that's, that's just a shared experience that I think a lot of women have and makes them feel left out. And it makes it really hard for them to want to participate in any way. I also think like money is so emotional. And it's also like, it can be so taboo to talk about between women. And I think one thing that people have found really powerful and empowering in being in community and Boys Club and talking about money and crypto, whatever, all this stuff that's happening here is like there's a freedom to it in the community that they don't find elsewhere

in their lives. Like, there's, it is what it is. We're talking about what we're talking about. It's money, basically. It's all these other things, of course, as well. But like, that we've all sort of opted in to have this conversation with each other. Like, there's this sort of freedom there that, I think is a big unlock for people. But I'd agree with Natasha. Like, 95% of the community calls, like, we're talking about feelings, we're talking about emotions. Like, I actually have my notes right here today. Someone used the phrase deep-seated fear. They were talking about deep-seated fears with me.

And I was like, I'm here for it. I can't always have this conversation with you. Like, I'm 100%, but like, this is a lot. But we're going to go there. Like, we're going to do it together. So, yeah. So in the future, when Boys Club is maximally successful and it's fulfilled all of its hopes and dreams, what does it look like?

You tell us. This is what you're going to. We know, like, we're creating a space where women can have more money and more power. Like, whether that means their projects being funded, whether that means giving them investment opportunities, whether that means them just participating in our community and sharing in the upside of what's happening. Like, that is the goal. Like, women helping women win is like all of this is about. And like, we're doing that because we believe that crypto is the way to it. And like, everything that's happening in this space is the most. direct path, but I want to see, like, whether you are an artist who is seeing an opportunity for yourself to actually sustain your living through NFTs, for our community, be the place for you. If you are an entrepreneur who has an idea and you want to make that happen in Web 3, then I want you to be a part of Boys Club. If you are a teacher who is trying to build wealth for yourself and you do not know how, because this is the path that you're on, I want you to join Boys Club and I want you to be a part of our Dow and share in the upside. And, like, that is the

that's the goal. And like, it can become so political when you're like, we're doing something for women. People are like, why, you're doing, you're doing such a political thing. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Like, I'm just inviting my friends to the table and hoping that we all like share in whatever happens next. And so I think for us, like, there's all these different paths that we could talk about of how we get there. But that's really the heart of it. It's like seeing a more inclusive version of what is happening in the space, all types of people. But our mission is for women to be at that table. Dina, what does a maximally successful version of Voice Club look like?

Yeah, I think there's actually no. I mean, I guess my sort of joke in that is that the paths that are in front of us, where we take this next, our end, like, it's almost like that there's so much flexibility with what a Dow is and how it comes together and how you get people to participate, what type of people you're attracting to participate. Like, it's so flexible. That's almost like a challenge, right? Like what decisions do we make in the next couple months and the next couple years that get us to that ultimate end goal, which is a community that is sharing in wealth?

So, yeah, I think we're totally aligned on goals. It's just like the details in the execution and how we get there. And so we're thinking a lot about Product Studio. As we talked about earlier, we're thinking a lot about an investment syndicate. But, you know, also like sort of our heartbeat is events and community in that way. So yeah, I think there's a lot of open questions about like where exactly we go next, but directionally, that's where we're headed. One other thing that I feel like we've left sort of out of the conversation in that we're doing

is like curriculum is also like a part of what we're thinking a lot about and like how we tangibly onboard to different protocols and projects and things that are happening in a way that is like really supportive and very different from at least the exposure I had when I first started. getting into this stuff. And before our first event, like, we put this, like, thing up on our website that was like, your first $1,000 in crypto. And it was like just stuff that we were doing. And, like, just to get the ball rolling. If they had that aha moment, like, here's tangibly, like, go home and do this. And it's working. Like, all the time. People are like in our discord asking questions about I'm on lesson two. Like, I'm getting stuck here. Can someone help me? And that has been so cool.

And like this woman DM does on Twitter the other day. And she was like, I'm going through it with my mom and I'm wondering X, Y, and Z. And that's perfect. That's so perfect. And so we're really thinking about how curriculum continues to evolve, how we continue to produce alongside all these other things that are open questions and projects we're working on. But that feels really content and curriculum feels really important as well to tangibly help people get through the door on these different projects. Do you guys have like a memory that you have out of Boys Club that just warmed your heart? Oh my gosh, there's so many.

I mean, I think one that stood out for me was at our first event, you know, we're there. We do a little keynote. We have a panel. And like it's sort of, you know, you're, it's our first event. It was like we're like beta testing it. We ship something fast. We're just like saying. I had no idea what the feeling was going to be.

And this woman came out to me at the end of the event. She was like, so I'm like really uninspired in my current career. I like work in whatever. And I really want to pivot to what's happening in Gryftone Web 3. I know nothing about it. But like this is the path that I want to be on. And now she's one of our core contributors in the Dow. And like we've obviously nurtured her through like onboarding her into the space and getting her involved.

But like that for me was just really special. It is really special. She's, you know, still on very much on that journey. But like I think just like, again, figuring out ways. to let people see the opportunity for themselves. And for this particular woman, it was like, she wanted to pivot professionally. It's not going to always be the case. But that was like, especially for her first event was like, okay, I think I get why we're doing this. Like this, I think we're on the right path here or something. Um, man, I truly, I mean, I do a boys

club hang out like once a week. So every week, I'm like, this is so, so awesome. But I think for me, like, after the first event, Dina had flown in. We're both staying at 11 Howard. And, And I was like doing a staycation. And the next morning we like got breakfast. And it truly felt like the day after my wedding where there was just like so much love coming in like texts and DMs and like emails and people just being like I am and all these women who had gone to this event and texted their friends and been like how do I get involved or they had seen it on Instagram and they were like I've been looking for something like this. And truly that feeling of being like wow, that's so there's so much inbound excitement around this thing that felt like the first like, oh, this worked. And that was really amazing. And that sort of like network effect of like 60 people were at that first dinner, but they all went and told their friends about it.

And then all of them were like, do you guys have a telegram? And that experience was really special because so many of the women at that first dinner are like my close friends, like my like buddies who are like, oh, I'm really excited about what's happening. And I've been sort of like too scared to ask these questions. So that was a really special like just eating a croissant at 11. Howard going through some hands on Instagram is a really good moment. So for all the other Dow leaders or industry leaders or people that work in the space are listening to this, how can they support Boys Club? Yeah.

First of all, get in touch. I had a conversation yesterday with Russell from 40 Acres Dow. And it was amazing because it was like we're struggling. First of all, like building so many of the similar things and also struggling with a lot of the same questions. So it's like, I think there's like, especially community DAO is like, I feel like there's like some knowledge sharing and transfer that like can be happening. And we're so like primed and would love to do that with anyone and have a lot to offer,

but also I think can can learn clearly a lot as well. So I think it's like that's something that we're really excited about collaborating with other DAWs and sharing some of these like, what are the pain points around like onboarding people at scale? Like how are we doing this and also preserving the vibe? like Natasha said, like, that's a really big open question. And like, we don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. Like, we can share some stuff, especially when it's like a community-centric Dow that's like sort of thinking about the same thing. So I think that that is a big one for us. And I also think that like we're starting to think about product. So as that becomes interesting for

as that's interesting to other people, like definitely get in touch and like we want to build for our community. And then like sponsorship dollars. We're doing an event Newark. We're doing an event to C. We're doing event in LA. We're doing event in Austin. Like, Come on down, right. It's a check. Put those logos all over. For sure. We want to work with you.

Well, they are mission aligned partners. Yeah, of course. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. So, yeah, for our first event, we have rabbit hole and public. com both perfectly mission aligned. It's amazing. They're incredible.

And, yeah, we're looking for folks that are, you know, clearly show the same values. So you guys put a big emphasis on in real life meetups. What cities does Boys Club really have, like, strong like prominence in. Yeah, New York for sure, obviously. And then Los Angeles, San Francisco, London. We got like a bunch of London. It's in London babes. A lot of London babes. Yeah. Miami. Oh, we're doing another event in Miami. So those are like our main hubs that we're seeing come together. And truly like as people are starting to form around that, we're like creating channels in our discord

for them to hang out. And it's been cool to see like a few days ago. It's like, oh, there's a ton of San Francisco people like people asking for that. And so obviously as that grows, that will continue to expand. But those are really like the main cities that we're seeing Boys Club take hold. And I think that sort of network effect around events, I know will be true as we continue to do more events in other cities. So I anticipate that as we do that, we'll see that sort of like spark of a new community form. So for the women that are listening who are already Boys Club pilled, how can they find the Boys Club? Boys Club.V.V. And there's a big button that says enter the chat.

And basically you just come in, you fill an application, and then we'd get in touch and send you the Discord link. So definitely, come on, come all. We're designed intentionally for women and non-binary people, but we are welcoming to all. So, like, if you feel moved by our message, then, and you've got good vibes. Like, it's crucial that the vibes are good.

Good vibe. you're welcome in Boys Club. Well, Dina and Natasha, thank you guys for coming on to Bankless. I've had a fantastic time learning all about Boys Club. It's so fun. Thank you so much. Cheers, guys.