Bankless - Bull or Bear? Crypto Market Analysis with Ledger from UpOnly!

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Ledger from UpOnly joins Ryan and David without Cobie or an appendix. However, Ledger brings the heat. He gives his takes, predictions, and everything in between on all things ETH, BTC, Shitcoins, Gensler's grilling, and macro.  ------ 📣 SAFE (Gnosis) | Non-Technical Hackathon Sign-up!! https://bankless.cc/AA  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:  ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum  🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken  🧠 AMBIRE | SMART CONTRACT WALLET https://bankless.cc/Ambire  👻 PHANTOM | FRIENDLY MULTICHAIN WALLET https://bankless.cc/phantom-waitlist  🦊METAMASK LEARN | HELPFUL WEB3 RESOURCE https://bankless.cc/MetaMask  ------ Resources: Ledger https://twitter.com/ledgerstatus  ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures 

Bankless Nation, where is the crypto market going? Are we going up? We're going down? I don't know, maybe a bit of both. David, today is an episode where we look at prices. We look at the charts. Bankless is a thesis-driven media company, but not today. We're just looking at price today.

Who do we have on? What are we discussing? We're bringing on Ledger from Up Only fame to help us guide walk us through the charts. So we're going to look at the big boys, the Bitcoin, the ether, the BTC, ether ratio. over the long time frame and also the near time frame because Ryan two weekly roll-ups ago you were talking about how you were feeling ready to capitulate on the possibility of triple-digit ether ever coming back and then we had a moment where I was like wait a second like this is we could we could just go right back down down to a thousand dollar ether TBD on three-digit ether

but I think the big question that is going around in the crypto Twitter space is is this the biggest bull trap of the bear market. And I think we remember back in 2019, the run from Bitcoin from 3,000 to 14,000 back down to 4,500. So I remember that bull trap. And I want to make sure that to the best of our ability, we are able to at least ask the question, are we seeing something similar here today in 2023? Because if you remember, that was. May of 2019 is when that happened right in the middle of the year. I know. Here we are, April 26th.

Interesting point in the market, that's for sure. And I'm going to give you some more commentary on that. But before we do, got to let our bankless nation know a message from our friends and sponsors over at NOSIS safe. It's now it's called Just Safe. This is the multi-sig that everyone in Ethereum uses, secures billions of dollars. Bankless uses it. You go to bankless.eith. It's NOSIS-Safe.

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Yay. What do we need to get there? We need an account abstraction SDK, which is exactly what Safe has built with their Safe core account abstraction SDK. You can go access that if you're a builder. There's a link in the show notes to go click that. There is also an account abstraction. Anything Goes Hackathon starting May 1st.

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David, I can't believe you're so mean to EOA wallets just then. I mean, they've served us well up to this point, okay? Have some respect. They are literally the Stone Age of Wall. Well, okay, so getting back to Price, though, in kind of the comments, yeah, we are in a very interesting place in the market. I feel like something about this under 2000 mark for Eath, right? That's just a number that sticks in my head.

And conveniently going to this episode, we're also just under 30K on the price of Bitcoin. And I know that because I just checked. Otherwise, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to price. But today is our opportunity to pay much more attention to it with Ledger. Guys, we'll be right back with Ledger. But before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible, including our number one recommended exchange. That's Cracken.

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Bankless bags is where we put our money where our mouth is. And for the bankless power user out there, you can access the analyst team 24-7 inside the Bankless Nation Discord. You can ask them questions and learn from a group of people deep in the weeds of crypto investing. The last feature of the token hub is the ability to upvote or downvote token ratings. The Bankless Token Hub lets you learn from your fellow citizens to rate these tokens yourselves. The bankless token hub is launching right now and has already been beta tested by your fellow bankless citizens. So stay tuned in the bankless discord for updates. And if you're not a bankless citizen, well, you better sign up if you want access because this corner of bankless

is available for citizens only. I'll see you in the discord. If you haven't yet experienced the superpowers that a smart contract wall it gives you, check out ambire. Ambire works with all the EVM chains, the layer two is like arbitram, optimism and polygon, but also the non-etherium ecosystems like Avalanche and Phantom. Ambyer lets you pay for gas and stable coins, meaning you'll never have to spend your precious ETH again. And if you like self-custody, but you still want training wheels, you can recover a lost Ambire wallet with an email and password, but without giving the Ambire team control over your funds. The Ambire wallet is coming soon for both iOS and Android. And if you want to be a beta tester, Ambire is airdropping their wallet token for simply just

using the wallet. You can sign up at ambire.com, and while you're there, sign up for the web app wallet experience as well. So thank you, Ambire, for pushing the frontier of smart contract wallets on Ethereum. Bankless Nation, you already know him, but here we've got Ledger, aka Breyn, aka Ledger, co-hosts of the Up Only podcast. Don't know if that's the thing anymore. We'll ask that later on in the show. Also, the co-host of LedgerCast, a trading podcast that he runs with Josh Olswitz.

Also, the co-host of the Daily Open podcast. Weekly Open. Weekly open. Excuse me. Weekly open. Thank you. And overall, another content producer in the space of crypto. Ledger, welcome back to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. My screen got smaller, so I don't know what happened there, but here we are. It's fair market shrinkage. That's what it's happening. I think we want to just hop right into this because there's two forces in the conversation warfare games of crypto Twitter, which is this is the biggest bullshrap of all time versus this is just the bounce back out of the FTX liquidations. the Theros Capital liquidations, and this is about what's fair value. And so I'm hoping you can help us navigate that question. Of course, I don't expect anyone to be able to read the future and answer that question. But when you hear the question at the very least, are we in the biggest bull trap of all time? What comes to mind?

This is the early innings, if it's even a bull trap. This is unimpressive yet as a bull trap. I am not even remotely interested in selling anything at this moment and bears will feel much more pain even if there's a longer sideways market ahead. We are at the equivalent in my mind, if you look at Ethereum at 2000, of Bitcoin breaching back above 4K.

In 20... Back in front. compared to the last, last, yeah, and I can share a screen whenever you want me to, but... You can go for it, yeah, we were ready. Yeah, we got to chart this whole episode. So this is just a bull trap for ants. You're just not even impressed by this.

I'm not impressed. So you're saying that, like, bull traps are a thing, and the bull traps are totally possible, and we're not there yet. Can we talk to me... Talk to me like three-case. What is a bull trap is? What is a bull trap anyway, guys, for the non-traders?

A bull trap is where bulls think all the pain is over and gone and done, and done and the real pain has not even started. Like we're going to go to $500 Eth or $400 Eth. And everyone that thinks we were done at, you know, sub 1,000, 8,900, whatever is wrong and they're all going to feel pain and we're going to go much deeper. Instead, I would say bears will continue to feel punishment as they try to fade the market.

recovery and I mean this across eth and btc this is not an eith btc conversation um if I look at bitcoin itself um I see a really excellent structure in recovery this is not to say it can't go down 20 30 percent I don't care about that I care if it's going to go down another like 60 70 percent from current prices or make new lows to a significant degree or something like that or or massively underperform the S&P 500 or broader markets. In my mind, crypto is way ahead of the rest of the market in terms of feeling pain and recovering to where you may not have had max pain in some markets,

but I believe that we've had max pain and then some in major crypto markets. There are bare markets going on in crypto right now, without a doubt, on a relative basis. You cannot objectively look at Bitcoin coin or Ethereum and say that it's true about those two assets. Now, this is what I said I was going to spoil you with. Defi, and I'm using AVE I love ABE, great product, great team, great people, great principles.

AVE relative to Ethereum is in a massive bear market and making new lows. Defi, if you own the coins or even if you own like NFTs, those bare markets, those bear may have years ahead. Oh. On a relative basis to some of the strongest assets on planet Earth, right? Like, Avey, relative to the dollar is just sideways. No problem, not new lows. But when you're comparing it to somebody calls it ultrasound money and Ethereum.

I don't know. I don't know who calls it that. Or the linear distribution schedule of Bitcoin where you know exactly what's going to happen with monetary policy. Ethereum, we don't know. We just know people love burning it. But either way, either way, you have this like disinflationary,

like minimum inflation, lowering inflation over time, where the world is inflating more and more. And with Ethereum, you have disinflationary and sometimes highly deflationary assets that people are using block space and there is demand to put hash rate out there and to spend energy for Bitcoin and to spend development cycles and compute power on Ethereum. And those are unbelievably, fundamentally strong assets with like really powerful economic principles

that no other asset in the world can compare to. None. I feel like I'm listening to a bankless podcast. You're just listening to me. It's just me, Brian Crogsguard representing himself and no one else. else. Not financial advice. No co-hosts financial advice or anything else. I love holding Ethereum. I love holding Bitcoin. I love holding hard assets right now. I love when I can actually attach yield to those assets if possible and safe and secure and not over leveraged. If you're over leveraged,

if you're in derivative assets, if you're deep down into the weeds of like in a coin sense, the 1,000th coin, not interested, not even remotely. They're not strong assets. If you are interested in the core framework of what makes up decentralized applications and finance and money and stuff and ultra durable that when the United States is going after it, it doesn't care because there's hundreds of other countries that'll pick up that There are hundreds of thousands and tens of thousands of other developers and other software creators and other principled believers that see the value of this as money and see the value

of this as an application platform and see the value of this as durable goods relative to their piece of crap inflation, their piece of crap politicians, their piece of crap policies that you don't understand, you don't know what's going on, you don't know what's going to happen other than that you're going to lose your value over time. These two assets are some of the best in the world. Full stop. So you said we're just going to look at price, but I'm screening fundamentally based on that.

And then we can talk about whether some trader looking at the weekly chart or the daily chart or the hourly chart is going to lose or make money. David, I like this electric guy. This is great. So you're bifurcating this conversation into two. and I think we'll approach each one. The defy, and I'm actually really interested in talking about the defy tokens,

but I know that that comes second just because. And it's not just defy. It's like I just look, I'm just clicking random ETH pairs, like Avax Eith looks like. Right. Well, okay, so the pattern I'm going to point out here. And so like Ava,

I bet if you do ENS versus Eith, it's down. I bet you if you do any defy token and any Alt layer one that went through its first bear market, it's the comment, The commoninator, our first cycle tokens are just down bad versus Bitcoin and Ether. That's right. But even like second cycle tokens, like SNX looks like it could break down relative to eth.

And synthetics is doing some pretty amazing stuff right now. You know, I don't know the economic principle. I don't, I don't, I'm not paying attention. And that's the problem. It's an attention. Kobe talks about this a lot. It's an attention economy. Right.

Right. And why bother down the deep line, if you are not the front page of attention. Can we just take a peek at like a layer two token though? Yeah, which one do you want? A Madic or like a- How about Arbitur? Okay, it's just so new though.

Okay. Right. So like there's like, that was another like category of conversation that I had is like there's the ETH and Bitcoin, they're the blue chips. There's a defy tokens. There's also the second. There's also the layer two tokens. Madik is interesting because it's a first cycle token at his first big bull market

this last cycle. but then also it's a layer two token to be priced referenced with optimism and arbitram as well so that's like a third topic of conversation i do i don't want to this is optimism i don't want to this not you don't want to own that not relative to eth you're saying not this is relative to i think optimism is great this is and this is the dichotomy of a deflationary world right when you live in a deflationary world when the under underlying asset is the strongest asset. It disincentivizes creative production and upside.

There's a ton of, like, optimism investors, early investors are so happy, right? Optimism retail buyers are not. And they probably won't be for a year or two. You know what I mean? Like this could all change. This is a daily chart. This isn't that big of a deal. This could change in a week.

Right now, right this moment, not interested. I want to see much lower prices. Are you making a case for Ledger, like, you know, do you remember that slogan, the dollar wrecking ball where like the dollar just sucked up all liquidity? Yeah, it's the Heath Wrecking ball. Is this the ETH wrecking ball? Is that what you're saying? It's ETH and BTC wrecking ball where you see essentially the equivalent of BTC dominance

or ETH dominance or Majors dominance. Now, that's a chart I like. That's a daily chart of Bitcoin dominance relative to everything else. but in the scheme of things on a weekly basis like you know it's still down here there is nothing preventing this from moving another 50% you think bitcoin dominance could get to 70% even in an eth wrecking ball world well

eth eth and btc are gonna imagine the double the double wrecking ball component there like i don't we'll look at eth btc we'll battle about eth and btc because that's actually an amazing battle It's like where do you overweight, ETH, BTC? Like that chart, I think Bitcoin has a chance to take, like, drop a 25% bomb on ETH. That's the worst case scenario in my mind. I also, yeah, for ETH. I also think ETH could like double if it just like says, all right, little Bitcoin boy, here sit aside.

And I'm going to take over because people use me. Like that's a really interesting debate. That's the only debate that I actually find interesting. Because when I look at this, this is just because it's the chart I have available. If I had a BTC and ETH versus everything chart, I'm in. Yeah. So why would I own everything if I'm really interested in BTC and Eith?

And to me, the high beta, so like 5%, 10% of your portfolio, is go make bets on things you believe in. You all are talking about account abstraction, like ideas, that people are building protocols on, things where you invest at 10 million or 50 million that might be worth 500 million. A 10x is amazing on like an early stage thing if your tech is right. Something that is not the tech is not right or the product market fit is not right. I'm not interested. I'm not interested in something that is if I'm if I'm the one that got in for a 25 or 50 million dollar valuation and now it's a two or three or three

or four billion. That's great. I'm perfectly happy to hold it and like move that to BTC and ETH over time. If I'm looking to get in a two or three or four billion dollar valuation, I need a bull market to take that to a 40 billion dollar valuation. So when I look at the big layer twos, I look at, you know, some of that kind of stuff, I still think they're awesome. I just don't think they're awesome for the next like six months, like when BTC and Eath might stop on absolutely. everything. Six months. That's an interesting time horizon here. So your basic, I want to connect this to kind of the, you know, I don't have the privilege of, yeah, yeah, I don't have the privilege of people's comments. So I'm just, I'm talking to my two friends. I'm not talking to

the YouTube commenters. That's a better way to do it, honestly. Okay, so Ethan Bitcoin, like they are Mario and Luigi, you know, and they just picked up the star. I just watched the Super Mario Brothers movies, is awesome, by the way. Was it good? Yeah, and they're just smashing through everything. This is a brothers. This is a two-year sideways battle. Two years. Now, ETH won the previous, like, whatever this is, climb out of the 2019 bear market.

Heath climbed, climbed, climbed, and broke up. And it became a big kid, right? Right. Heath went from, I don't know, XRP or Eith. And now it's like, that's hilarious. You know, like there is only ETH. There is Bitcoin and there is Ethereum. And Ethereum leveled up.

And now it's gone sideways for two years. Now, is Bitcoin going to pillage and be the bigger wrecking ball? Heath will still do well, even if it's at 0.05. Even if I believe it has a destiny for 0.14. But if it goes to 0.05 and it has a destiny for 0.14, I have a 3x on a relative basis to win if buy more ETH when that happens. So your bet, your gamble that you should be making in my mind,

what I'm going to make is do I want to own Ethereum or do I want to own Bitcoin? I want to own Ethereum without a doubt for the trip to 0.14. Ethereum will hit 0.14 in my mind. I also That's real close to the flippinging by the Yeah I was going to say what is the flippinging is it But that's what so This is this is where the fun is

This is where Imagine Imagine the Udi versus David Like Not as good as David versus Goliath But it's close you know Like

It's really gracious to Oonie Calling him in Goliath Yeah Michael Saylor can be Goliath. David versus Sailor. Right? I like that one better. Yeah.

So that's a great battle. I want to see that battle. Now, David, you might get down bad. That's the 200-week moving average of ETH relative to BTC. So the four-year moving average, and it's like, I might as well. That's the green line that I'm looking at right there at 049. Yeah. That's the four-year moving average.

average. Heath could go there and sailors laughing at you and talking about Bitcoin is energy. And like he's sitting on top of a volcano and, you know, Bitcoin's $100,000 and Bitcoin and Heath is whatever 5% of that is. Right. It's a $5,000. I was like, oh, cry me a river. My Ethereum is worth $5,000.

But he's like, but Bitcoin is $100,000 and I cannot be stopped. In that voice. Do you know, by the way, David, would you take that bet with Sailor? Could we like meme a David versus Sailor into existence? Like, bet him on the ratio? That would be a lot of fun. I think both Sailor nor I care for that bet. But you know what happens?

You know what? I don't care if it's 105. We're just using these as easy numbers, right? It could be 20,000 and 1,000, right? Like, it's the same ratio. But let's just say it's 105 in 2025. Okay. This is a long, that's not a short bet.

That's a two-year process to say 100,000 and 5,000. And he bleeds out for this is, here we go, 2025, January 2025. So this chart just like is a, the worst like little race track car. Like what are those things called that my kids do? Yeah, the little zippy black track race car. It's like the slot cars. It's like the worst track ever. It's like just this slow drip out where Bitcoin gets stronger and stronger.

And Heath is doing great. And Bitcoiners are laughing at Ethereum people. And then Ethereum's is like, all right. And it goes 15K. And it goes from here to here because I don't know. The World Bank is now on Ethereum. Who cares? Who cares what the narrative is?

You just need a narrative. You need the alt season. You need the ETH leading. You need the DFI summer. You need that moment that takes three months. And it just unwinds all of the sailor energy. And then you have your alt season and all of those freaking layer twos and DFI coins and dog tokens and cartoon pictures and miladies. They go to infinity.

And then everything explodes again. Man, you make it sounds so simple. But that's a cycle. We just did that. We just did that like a year ago. It's how it always happens. It's how it always works. We went from 400 to 4,000 and David was like, just imagine if my Ethereum went to $4,000 and I bought it at 90.

Brian's like, I will talk to you from my evil lair. That's what we did. So now we're like, oh, when are we going to make it again? It's like it's only been a year, man. It's been two years since the market like really topped. in a year since it bottomed or something like that. Something has to happen that's unexpected, right, Ledger? That is unexpected.

Why is that unexpected? Because if Bitcoin is it a, let's just say Bitcoin goes to $100,000 in 2025, but the S&P 500 is not made a new high. Like we, and it's like illegal in America to run a defy company. You know, and you have $5,000 Eath and that $100,000 Bitcoin, it's illegal to operate a defy company in America, like Bitcoin as currency is in two countries or something, like El Salvador and whoever they pick next, freaking Cuba or something. And it's like that, that's the scenario we live in in a couple of years.

And the happening happened and the hash rate tripled. And like, we're all pumped up. But our miladies are worth 0.1% of what they were in 2022. I don't have a milady. So this last bear market when, you know, young little David was excited about his $90 ether. And all I was like fighting with the Bitcoiners. And I just felt that they were wrong. And I had people like Ryan agree with me and all that, all that stuff.

And then the then the cycle happened more or less like kind of how we thought that it would play out. Yeah. Fast forward to now. I do not feel that same level of confidence about reading the market because like, like you said, like, we got this Gary Gensler guy who's like coming to like jail all of our developers and we have interest rates now. And like there's all these new things that make me much less convicted versus a whole entire cycle ago. But it's because you made a lot of money when the asset was really cheap. Relative to a typical person, it doesn't matter how much money you made.

Right. Like you own one Ethereum. You own one Ethereum from a hundred bucks and it's like 20 cups coffee. Right. Like, then you held that until it went to $4,000 and you're like, I bought $4,000 with 20 cups of coffee. Right. I've, I forsook my Starbucks trip every day for every workday for a month. And now I have a used Toyota Corolla. That's the bet you already won. That's the Bitcoiner bet from $7 to $700 or from like this 2012 right it's the bitcoiner bet from the the harder one was bitcoin was breaking 2013 12 and $1,300 highs and went to $20,000 dollars that's more like where we're talking about now for Ethereum and for Bitcoin the road to Bitcoin being worth half a million dollars is really hard for me to imagine when it was $7 when I first heard about it in 2012

So $7 to half a million dollars. So that's two cups of coffee to a house. That's the trade that like, you know, Lop made. Right. That's the trade that Kobe made, right? The people that were buying Bitcoin for $7, $12, what's the freaking difference between 100% move when it goes to half a million dollars?

People just hate you. They hate you. They hate you. They hate your industry. There's jealousy and envy. And you're just like, I don't know, bro. I hodeled. So if you are Mr.

Bankless, Ethereum, believe in the network, believe in the true value of what this can be, the compute layer of the entire world, public and private infrastructure that runs on public infrastructure, secured by itself that cannot be disturbed or overtaken,

does not have a single point of influence that can stop it. Ethereum has challenges, right? Like who gets governance done, right? Can the CIA, like, change the direction of Ethereum governance? Those are the types of changes you're talking about. Can one minor take over the Bitcoin network? Can North Korea have an impact? These are big kid conversations.

These are state players don't like that. debate because it's too close to being real like what's more powerful bitcoin and Ethereum or a tiny nation state I will take I will put my chips on the side of Bitcoin and Ethereum before I would put my chips on like the 50th largest country in the world but what about when that decentralized financial platform is the fifth largest country in the world. It's like Australia or Canada. And they're like, we just keep printing trillions of dollars and we control it because we have gigantic guns. We're going to point our guns at Bitcoin. And the rest of the world is like, no, our guns already lost

and we have nothing and we are now part of this empire that's growing. This is the like, Bitcoinization argument, right? I'm just putting it in different terms. By the way, guys, if you're curious, the 50th largest country in the world is, by economy, is New Zealand. So that's Ledger just shitting all over New Zealand. I was about to say, it's like, man,

I don't even know, like, I can't name, don't even know how to like map out where the fifth, 50th largest country in the world. But they know who Satoshi is and they know who Vitalik is, but who cares who the prime minister of New Zealand is. New Zealand looks beautiful. ministers or presidents or whatever. They probably have both.

It's just a couple of guys that need more power with their amazing, like, ocean front states and their, like, doomsday bunkers. That honestly, you might want to bet on New Zealand and against, like, I don't know, something really close to New Zealand because New Zealand's got the doomsday bunkers. So I had a conversation with Ryan on, I think, the weekly roll-up this last week, and it was more or less like a conversation about the odds of the next cycle playing out just like the previous cycles. And I remember going-

A double top, basically. It goes to the same exact spot it went and it's kind of like a ho-hum. Is that what you mean? No, I mean like in the 2018 to 2020 bear market. No, no, no. It was like, it was a bare market. And then it was like, oh, the next cycle that comes, the next cycle that comes. And my like tried to put on the little contrarian.

hat and I was like, everyone's talking about this next cycle if it's this given thing. Doesn't consensus mean that like, and then it's not going to happen? And then it happened. That happened. Right. And that made every single person, including you. For the podcast listeners, Ledger's pointing at the COVID dump. Yeah.

But that's including you, including me. You know where you were. You questioned everything. Bitmex had $18 million from Bitcoin going to zero on a derivatives platform that a bunch of like apes were killing each other on. That was scary. March 2020. It was super scary and that was,

it did not make, on that moment. My office as always, David. But yeah. No, we were recording a podcast. We were recording episode number two. Yeah. Was that number two?

When like GAS-E-spiked and like Dye was destabilizing and ETH was just. Yeah, we were both getting liquidated and MakerDAO. Yeah. Yeah. It was a Wednesday or Thursday night. I can't remember which, but I remember exactly. I can't, I remember exactly who I was with. Morning.

No, but the like, I was the night before when it was like 5K. Oh, it was a night before. It was a night before. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Arthur Hayes was calling for, um, triple digit Eith for so long, and he actually got it. And I couldn't believe it. Sorry, double digit, Eith. Double digit.

Yeah, double digit. The double digit shit coin. Yep. Mm-hmm. And he also, like, might have had to turn the exchange off in order to prevent Bitcoin from going zero. Maybe. Allegedly.

going derivatives. I'm just making stuff up. But like, that's, that's the fear, even though it was the start of like the greatest wealth creation cycle in crypto's history. The day after. Now, this is a weekly chart. That next week was so scary. That next week was like, we didn't go to zero. I hope we survive. The next week was like, wag me, baby, let's go. Okay, but the question I was asking is like, throughout that last bear market, I was just saying like, oh, everyone's talking about the next cycle that's inevitably coming. And then it did. And so fast forward to this. But here, up here is where they were really talking about that. And they lose face. They lose faith. They lose faith. They gain it. They questioned everything. Half the people literally went bankrupt. I mean, you remember the funds that went bankrupt during that period. They'd never, they could experience any of this. They never made it because they went broke. They never made it because they got. But you're saying. like right now in this present bear market. Like you're pointing at like Ether and Bitcoin, they're going to do it again.

We're somewhere between no, I'm just trying to point at parallels. I'm not trying to say like third avenue is going to be the same as second avenue. I'm saying like it's a street with buildings on it. And like typically

this street over here is a kind of a growth phase once you build the other street. You know what I mean? like that Bitcoin City is going to grow or whatever you know like I believe in the growth of it but if people don't come in and inhabit it then then no of course it can change one of the ways we were talking about it on the roll-up was like what year is it compared to dumping like crazy as I talk by the way yeah the comment we're not saying so as well we're not helping the market

right now but okay so bankless does one trading chart show and we're dumping is this is this most like another analogous year. Is this like 2019? Yeah, we're not. What year is it? What year is it compared to the last cycle? Like I said, I don't... May 2019.

Yeah. Ish. Like, there's a lot of uncertainty. Will, will Ethereum be illegal? Will Bitcoin be disavowed? Will somebody, who's going to ban it? Like, is the U.S. the new China? Like, that's a good question.

that is a good question that obviously puts pressure on on asset prices but China banned Bitcoin like all through 2017 as well and the U.S. bought it and now

what if the U.S. just keeps banning stuff the CFTC or the SEC or the FTC or the FAA I don't care like you cannot fly with your keys on that for a moment there's two things that have actually surprised me me about like the kind of the year regulatory backlash which you really had like number one that

we haven't dumped harder with bickland eth price like that that's surprising in and of itself everything blew up yeah but but also only was on a last last week tonight with john oliver the other day i saw that by the way i should have reached out and congratulated you guys it was for the no i was like how bad did he talk about not at all did he make fun of up only or just make fun of Do Klon. I'm not sure which. It was John Oliver's segment. He had his kind of like, you know, 25-minute segment. And he was-cropo as a failed experiment.

Yeah, smashing crypto. Yeah. But with justifiable reason because he brought in, you know, Tera. Centralized crypto was a failed experiment. Alex Mishensky with his like, banks are not your friend. It was all of the hits, basically, all the 20-23 hits. And they showed a clip from Up Only where Doquan came on one of your live screen. In between.

And Martin, that's his name. Yeah, right. And Martin's Crelly told him that Joe wasn't so bad. Yeah. And that made John Oliver. Yeah. Crazy. Crazy.

It's hilarious. But okay. But like, okay, back to the regulatory point, surprised we haven't gone down more. I'm also surprised. Like, the reason I don't think the U.S. will go all out ban. I know we're talking about fundamentals here and it's, you know, trading price podcast. But the reason I don't think they go to all out ban. It's part of trading.

Congress. This is a trade. You have to. Okay. Did you see the sessions with Gensler? getting grilled in front of Congress. Actually, like, you could go... No, but I saw his talk where he said two-thirds of the market are not securities.

Crypto has more friends, I think, in Congress than I previously thought. 100%. It was actually pretty astounding. That was actually a bullish take on the events of like... I'm not to call out a couple of them. I hate how freaking, what do you call it? Polarized or like partisan it's getting. Yeah.

Because I don't think crypto is. a partisan thing, but there were like Tom Emmer and Cynthia Loomis and but there were a bunch of people that we didn't know as well than either that I'm looking for their names right now. Patrick, uh, was it Patrick McHenry?

Warren Davidson and Patrick McHenry. Tom Emmer, Warren Davidson, Patrick McHenry and I said they stood up for American companies trying to operate within the crypto ecosystem in good faith, but lack good faith guidance from our own regulators. And then you look at Gary Ginsler's as an instructor versus as the chair of the SEC, and he contradicts his own self.

Badly. When he was an instructor, this was Brian Armstrong tweeted this yesterday. It's a video of him saying two-thirds of the market are not securities or something like that. And then now his comments are nothing but Bitcoin is a commodity. My explanation for that was that his pivot is just clear because he started being paid by the banking sector. and some backhanded deal. I have no idea. I'm not going to take the worst.

Obviously, that's a complete conspiracy, but like something about Gary Gensler just did a complete pivot and, you know, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. I don't know where the incentive came from, but I know what the outcome is, which the outcome is like Gary Gensler is here to kill crypto to the best of his ability. So there's an incentive there somewhere. And I think it could just be part of Operation Chokepoint. the members of government, executive branch, Elizabeth Warren, whoever just said, hey, I just like to say whichever whale is watching this show and counter-trading me right now by

selling everything they own when I talk about paying the best asset in the world. If you could please, freaking stop. People are upset at me. And I'm blaming this market dump on bankless podcast and my own. Oh, wow. We are still going down. Okay. So we've started the podcast.

Bitcoin was $29,700. And now we're down to $23,000. $8,000. I started talking at 1940 and we're at 1830. Wow. Wow. This is Gary down. Okay. This is this is Kobe dumping everything he owns right now. That's my conspiracy theory of the day. Just because. No, just because he's going to counter trade me as much as possible. Can you open up that tweet that just sent into a Zoom chat here? This is a, I don't know how legitimate this is, but I want to get your take on this as a trader. This is Andrew King. tweeting out what could just be a great viral tweet but he tweets out when the market sells off for

what seems like no particular reason and this is after the move from ether at $2,100, $2,100 down to like $1,800 where we basically are right now. Andrew Kang tweets out when a market sales off for what seems like no particular reason, one can either assume that one, the trend has been exhausted and a larger, longer correction is on the horizon, which is like the call for like a mid-year, both trap or to someone knows something and then he follows that tweet up with a hash which is basically him in time stamping a secret uh so brian i just want to get your take on on this tweet there's like this weird shift in price action ever since ether broke 2 000 and bitcoin broke 30 000 that all of a sudden things just dump now oh so wanted to get your perspective here i don't really

care it's too short term like Andrew is trading you know millions of of dollars on GMX and sometimes he's up millions and sometimes he's down millions and he's trading this crap and this is absolute in my mind the noise and not the signal the signal is what's happening on weekly timeframes and monthly time frames like charts are very valuable I'm not I'm on here to talk about charts this is the chart I care about when you trade what's what what time frames are your candle this one the weekly time frame daily and one week's of time eith to dollars is this weekly

yeah when the market when the market is going like parabolic yeah put me on an hourly chart and i'm going to like rotate a two x and a shit coin to another shit coin and try to two x that like but when i'm talking about where do i want my work my value my worth and my like allocation i only care about this do i need dollars Do I need crypto? Do I need hard assets or oil or gold or somebody's dollar milkshake? Like, what's the important stuff?

And in my mind, right now, inflation's not under control. Like, we may have a deflationary shock, but we're still printing money. We unwound half of the tightening that we did in like two days of crappy bank failures and federal reserve failures to control the situation. And they tried to blame crypto because they know that they are totally screwed unless they find a scapegoat. That's my personal opinion. I don't want First Republic bank shares. They just went down like 50% yesterday because they're like,

oh yeah, we still suck. Silver, like Silvergate and Stargate. Yeah. Like whatever the, whatever all those banks are, like signature and all them, Stargate. I want to put my money in a bank. I'm a big fan of Stargate. Well, there's a Stargate. I'm an investor.

Sorry, I'm a Freudian slip. That's the layer zero. I know you don't like the naming conflict there. Layer zero and Stargate are a thing. That's a messaging protocol between things. So sorry. I didn't mean to say that. Oh, that's great.

Silvergate and signature and Silicon Valley and First Republic. they have all these unsecured deposits over 250k and they're losing their deposits because people do not trust their money in those institutions. I do trust that my Ethereum is my Ethereum. I trust that my Bitcoin is my Bitcoin. They are worried about that stuff because if people lose trust in that,

they lose trust in dollar hegemony and all that kind of crap that Bitcoin Maxis talk about for years and years. right and i think those are real arguments and when you have periods of fear and concern and you start questioning as a bank run possible know as long as it's j p morgan and the u.s just says we'll keep printing to make it work that's what they're doing we will backstop the biggest banks and you know to the rest you know like the rest can just like just go suck it up right

sorry if you're a bondholder of a mid-sized bank in South Dakota right tough luck get your money out like why would you want money in anything but J.P. Morgan Chase damn let's come into like slay some people

today man you're but this is the truth is we have fragility in our banking system and they're all complaining about the fragility of scammers in crypto they cannot They cannot make that argument about decentralized protocols and products that are built on sound principles. I mean, we're 100% aligned on that. I know, but that's what the prices are reflecting it. Right.

Okay. And that's what I want to make that connection is like how that relates to this chart here. But there's a ton more that we want to talk about. I'm just, I'm just, that's. This is great. This is my fundamental rant. There's some other assets I want to talk to you, but we have to immediately cut to sponsors to talk about all these ways that immediately cut to the sponsors that make this show possible.

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or you can go to phantom. app slash waitlist to get access in late February. Bank of Nation, we are back with Ledger, who has been some hot fire lately. And it's been a while since you've been doing some podcast, Leder because you've had an emergency removal of an appendix. Congratulations on that, I guess. Is that what you say for an appendix?

Yeah, I found out yesterday. It actually had ruptured, and I didn't know that. So, like, I had to get it all removed, and my gut was rotten. So I had a couple weeks in the hospital, or a couple weeks with multiple trips to the hospital. And, that was painful. David, you still have your, David, you still have your, I do still have your appendix. Yeah.

Congratulations. I'm gone. No appendix, man. I got, oh, wow. You don't need one. You don't need it. I'm not going to gross you all out with some of the stuff I learned. Not having your appendix is kind of bullish.

Like, I'm kind of scared to ask why. You don't want to ask any more follow-ups. Like, we're going to lose all your listeners. It's an optional organ, David. You don't need it. I know that. I'll explain it.

I'll explain what I learned later. Okay. Google told me. Chad GPT told me the answer to what an appendix is used for. So we'll talk about it. Oh, I know what an appendix is used for. What? It is a store of bacteria in case your colon's just get

absolutely wrecked from infection. It is a nice little warehouse of bacteria to restore your gut microbiome. Yeah. Have you ever played organ trail when they die of dysentery? It's because they can't coat themselves in good bacteria and then they start consuming bad bacteria again. And so then they're in trouble if they don't have their appendix to serve that function. Wait, so your appendix is just a side chain for your colon. Is that, is that, is that, is that you're telling me. We're going down in this private hole. It means if you lose your appendix, it's because you weren't using it very often,

which means your bowels do not drain themselves out because you died in Oregon Trail. So you live in a modern society, and in a modern society where you're not completely emptied out, then you don't use your appendix and it gets a little rusty and it can't handle it. And it just overflows with death because it's not being utilized well enough. this is quite possibly the most bearish content I was going there and then y'all went there I was interested

I told you I wasn't going to do it this is what you do at a bankless meetup with like three beers in you not when you're sober on two o'clock in the afternoon we're going to get the clip team to make a clip out of this and share this on Twitter with any context about why we're doing this

somebody said it's in a pen decks this is this is just decentralized trading content. Nice. Oh my God. I don't know if I want to continue this coming. Let's get back to the charts. Sure.

Let's do that. Can I get you to pull up some out layer ones? Can we look at Solana? Oh, I love Solana. So we're relative to what? Salana chart. I just want you to pull up, like I want you to treat this like the war jock test where like you look at the chart,

you look at the shape of the line and you tell me how you feel about it. I'm going to take you to, so I don't have Soul Eath, but I have Soul U.S. and Seoul BTC. So Soul USD, it's like this is what I would call. Let me see if I have them. There we go. A bunch of lines.

This is the SBF $3 kind of range bounce. Like that's the, that's like the destiny chart in the worst possible case scenario. They actually have done some really cool stuff. So what they haven't been able to get into is this kind of bare market. range that Salonam like Salonamaxis would have loved to be the bottom. But then SBF happened and FTX failure happened and it was like, yeah, LOL. Like, no, these coins are gone because our cost basis is like 11 or 50 cents or, you know,

something like that. So we're still totally fine dumping on your face at $10 so that we don't go bankrupt as a firm or as a hedge fund or as a whatever. So it went to $10. and now it's like at 20, okay, 2x that, blah, whatever. Can it get back into the previous range, the 25 to 50, the one where Solana people don't feel like they're dying? This is Ethereum $40, or not 40.

This is Ethereum like 100 plus. And Solana, $10 is Ethereum, $100. And $8 Solana was Ethereum $80. Ethereum's going back to $15 where it was when it went on Coinbase. I don't think that's going to happen. But this isn't a good chart. It's not a chart where I'm just like, you know what? That's what I want to own unless I think it can go from 25 to 50 bucks.

And I'll disclose, I do have a little like long, long, long, long, long term Salana. Not a meaningful amount, but Suana owned for a long time and didn't sell that portion. If I asked you to look at like other Altlayer ones, would you more or less give me like a similar story? Maybe worse. I think Solana actually has a chance to Ethereum itself. I think the monetary principles of Solana are just as bad as Ethereum's were in 2018. Like there's still a lot of inflation. There's still a lot of centralization.

But like only on Solana is a great narrative. Only possible on Solana, the Solana phone. I'll disclose too. Like totally, he told me he was going to send me a phone. I haven't gotten that yet. But his challenge was use it for a week and see what happens. and like I was like yeah man that's awesome like if I can do crypto on my phone and get out of the apple ecosystem of absolute anti-crypto trash other than maybe Steve jobs was Satoshi

did you all see that the white paper yeah yeah I saw that yeah um but anyway I think that's amazing I think like Solana if Solana could be like the third avenue right like the Bitcoin the Ethereum the Solana achieved network effects that have power, and then they can fix the things that are wrong. Ethereum sucked in 2017. Yeah. It was an ICO hosting platform. Yeah.

And now you have AVE and you have Uniswap. What did it hit $1.5 trillion of transaction volume? Yeah. That stuff is amazing. Like Ethereum is money. Ethereum is principally sound, even if chaotic. So you think it has a chance to be that third thing. Yeah.

Without a doubt. And would you put any other alternative layer one in the running for that? No. Yeah, I agree. Which ones would? Cosmos, maybe. Tech is good. A basket of it.

Adam is... Tech is good. Money is bad. Yeah. And it's also a cathedral. Salonah's kind of a bizarre, like the same way that Ethereum was. You know? It was a little bit cathedrally, like the only who was building on it. But now they got thousands of people building on it in a absolutely chaotic way,

the way that Ethereum was in 2018. But what does something like even Solana do against Bitcoin and Eath? Because to the point, in the first part of this episode, you're saying the only two assets, it's a two horse race, it's Ethan Bitcoin. I don't care about anything else at this phase of the market. I don't. Look at what I'm looking at. Soul BTC is not something I want to own.

I'm talking about the fundamental. case. This is where I talk about that fundamental and then the trade. The trade is not there for Solana. The fundamental case, I think, might be building. But I don't know, like, maybe it's not until it goes down to here, right? You could go to, if you said, Ledger is pointing to something that's like down 60%. Down a lot. I'm not familiar with these numbers here. The ratio of sold to Bitcoin here. That's a 50% dump relative to Bitcoin. So if Bitcoin goes to 40 or 50K and Solana stays at 20 bucks. We got some comments in the chat saying,

you guys are completely discounting Cardano and Ripple. Yes, we are doing that. I mean, I'll take that one to the grave. I don't have to own it. You don't have to own everything. Why would you want to own everything? Take concentrated bets and believe in them. And I see a world.

this is like a banana parabolic down move relative to Bitcoin. Like that, that's not, that's not pretty. As in it accelerates. It's like, yeah, it's like it's sloping more down the longer you go and it's not great. Do you think that this changes at any point, right? Or when does this, when does this change? Like, do we have to have the phase, do we, will we feel the phase shift of the market? Okay.

So you won't be first, but you don't have to be last. Okay, so like this is an era you're saying where we've just got Ethan Bitcoin. They're going to outperform everything. So you don't think it's worth owning anything relative to them. But that will change at some point. 100%. And you need to, that's when you're ready to take your incredible buying power of Ethereum and Bitcoin. And deploy it.

Go down the stack. How will you know when it's time? This is a, this is, let's go back to principles, right, of trading. This is a 20 week moving average. It's getting pounded by the top side. The 20 week moving average, which is, I mean, five months is an absolute ceiling. It cannot get above of four to five month a quarterly price. Just to just pick this for the podcast listeners, the Salana chart, the all the candles,

the green channel candles, the right channels are going down into the right. white line above all the candles. And anytime the candle touches and pounds into the ceiling, anytime it touches the white line, it plummets. And that's the same thing Bitcoin, that's the same thing Bitcoin did from 20K to 3K. If let's go, I'm going to go look at it real quick. This is, this is what I use charts for. And it's taken me some time to like just know you don't have to be there. Okay. This is Bitcoin. After. it went to $20,000 in 2017. This is that same moving average.

It doesn't really matter what you're using. But it's just a quarter, imagine it isn't like a quarterly price almost or a one-third of the year. It couldn't get above that, got slammed by it. 6K, it was sitting at it, and it got decimated to a four-year average price when it finally broke down.

Salon is not even four years old. It doesn't even have the green line. But can't, when does it, when am I interested? turn it. Tell me that the price can get above the average price of the last one-third or one-quarter of a year and show some support. But that takes the way you guys were in Ethereum land in 2017 and 2018 and 2019, believers. It's believers in Salana. And Salana has thousands of believers that need to absorb those coins and show that it can bottom. Relative to Bitcoin. That's not even

relative to dollar, right? That's relative to Bitcoin. And then I'll say, okay, I will take some precious Bitcoin or some precious Ethereum and I'm going to put some of it into Salana. I don't care if the price of Salana is $20 or $100. I don't care. I care what it is relative to my current established buying power of the two most powerful assets in the world. That's what I care about. Can I buy 20 Salana or 100 Solana or whatever it is for every Ethereum that I deploy into it? I don't know what the ratio is. But like if I can, as long as the trend has flipped, then I will earn more relative Ethereum because the price of Solana went up. And then someday, maybe I'm actually going to want to hold Solana even through a bear market. Not all of it. If I have a, I don't know,

100 Solana, I might hold 10 through whatever price it goes to next. And I sold 90% of it with relative buying power and put it away for the home team because I want to like retire someday. You know what I mean? That's the trading component of this broader fundamental narrative. And you think that what's really important here is this moving average here. This is this a- It's just trend trading. It's just saying trend trading based on a quarterly chart.

a quarterly price average or something ish, you know, 20 weeks versus 200. One-tenth of the time frame is faster than the four-year time frame. That's all that means, 20 and 200. When do you think that happens? Are you just looking the charts and watching for kind of the, you know, the trend to switch? Or you have like a date, you have no idea whether that happens. The dollar, the dollar version of it says it's okay to hold right now. David, you're muted maybe on purpose.

Yeah, it's probably good. This is why we bring Ledger on every six months because I feel like, Like within six months, you know, we'll be able to, he'll be at some point, I'm just waiting for him to tell me like, oh, yeah. Buy, buy, buy, bye, bye. It happened three months ago. Well, it had a chance literally on relative to the dollar right in October, in 2022. And then FTX failed and it went to zero. Right.

It went to eight bucks. Do you guys want to know why we're dumping right now? Why? Here, I'll just send you a tweet, a ledger. Mount Gawks and government wallets have started making transactions. So Mount Gawks, Bitcoins are on the bill. Okay. So it's not my fault.

It's not your fault. I'm blaming Carpelle's. So I don't know if that's actually meaning we're actually being, things are actually being sold into the market or traders are just selling because of fear of other. I'm sure it's both. But this is where other people can shine. Like they can sit there on the hourly chart. Mount Gox coins will be absorbed.

Those are massive Ws by people that were into crypto way before us. Right. And even though they lost 80%. of their coins, they still like 100x. Like, right. That's the best forcehold ever unless you sold your claims and like never got them. And by the way, that's where Solana people are now. Right.

Like Salana people have their coins locked in FTX and they're selling their claims for 20 cents on the dollar. What if Solana goes to 200 bucks again and at 10 X's and they're crying and they're gone and they're like running a food truck now because they don't believe in crypto. And instead they could have 10x, they could have 10x from here. trading on Kyle Davies in Sue Sue's Exchange. I'm sure that's going to hit someone. That's probably

someone's specific story of, you know. I don't. I feel bad saying that. There's one guy who heard that and felt personally attacked. Can I ask you? I've been there, man. Not at the food trucks, but you know, down bad is it's how it goes. It's a right of passage. This entire episode

on trading and prices, we haven't yet once mentioned macro. And like, the R word recession or anything else, does that factor into your analysis at all? Are you just like, it's too much, I can't even factor that into the model, so I just ignore it. Because I know some kind of crypto traders who are just like, I don't pay attention to macro because no one actually knows what's going to happen. What's your take on this? I think we're kind of at an inflection point if you just look at the dollar, the Dixie relative to other stuff. But all these currencies suck.

like the dollar could bounce heavily. This actually, if you're just looking at a chart, a chart is a chart as a chart, Josh Olsaich, 2017. And I don't put me on a deserted island. I'll look at the chart and I'll tell you what I'll do. Sometimes I'll be right. Sometimes I'll be wrong.

But hopefully 60% of the time I'm right and therefore I win. I'm allowed to be wrong. I'm allowed to get it wrong. I'm allowed to not understand. But I'll look at the chart in isolation and make the call. lacking fundamentals. My value add is, can I look at the fundamentals and then take the same exact strategy? And that way I'm not trading like Doge Pepe Taco coin and instead I'm trading Ethereum.

Right? Like the easiest win of all time. Pepe coin, zero. Ethereum, not zero in the future. In the long run. I once traded Bedbath and Beyond and, 10x my money on bed bath and beyond stock. Were you bullish on fundamentals, sir?

They had a billion dollars in the bank at the time. Since then, that was more than the valuation of the stock. They owned their own real estate. And I was like, this store sucks. People go here in August when they're about to go to college. And then they go there. I've been to bed bath and beyond. I know.

You'll go again when you have a baby, but it won't be owned by them because it'll be owned by someone that bought the bankruptcy assets for pennies on the dollar. But the chart is a chart, it's a chart, and I 10xed my money on bed to bath and beyond, a small amount of money that turned into a reasonable amount of money. And I, like, did nothing but trade that for 2019,

because guess what, crypto wasn't worth trading. And that chart was like, br-l-l-l-l-da-da-ha. And everybody was like, this company's going bankrupt. And I was like, yes, they are, but not yet. And now they're bankrupt. I haven't traded it since it became a meme stock. Once it became a meme stock, I was definitely no longer interested. But I turned a few thousand dollars into a few tens of thousands of dollars doing it.

And then I turned a few tens of thousands of dollars into ETHE and GBTC when the market was doing well. And now my IRA is worth a little bit of money. And that's pretty freaking awesome. And it started at like nothing. And that's all charts. for their questions. Yeah, this is an honesty episode, right, where I'm coming out, I'm coming out firing. It's tax protection.

A new man. I won't touch it until I'm 65 years old and it's not like the majority. Like I own a home and, you know, I have a couple of other available assets. Like it's not going to change my life in the near term. But the fact that you turn something from your first job into, you know, six figures or something like that. Because you traded bedbath and beyond stock in a tax-protected account is pretty funny. That's a great story. All right.

Well, David, do you have any other questions about charts prices? Oh, not about charts. No. What are you doing these days, Ledger? So is it like, is it like 2019 where crypto is super boring and you got Bitcoin 8? But you're waiting for things to happen. So why trade? So what do you spend your time doing?

Building. Never been building. I'm biddling. You want to pull up flip? What is this? Flip. Flip. Flip. Flip. Flip. So this isn't just, Brian, I want to actually give this take out there. Sometimes when the charts are not conducive to trades, sometimes when the markets aren't ready, the option to build a company and invest in private markets by building stuff is actually the best ROI on your time. And so, Brian.

you're building these days? I'm trying to not docks everything, but also show you flip. We're releasing, we're releasing this coming week the best in class OTC trading platform for NFTs. First, what is flip.

Flip.x, y, if you go to flip.xy Z, let me show it. Yeah, pull. Yeah, you're going to pull up an incitrient. I was trying to pull up what we're doing this. You got the screen. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to show you what we're doing next. You got a next thing after Flip.

dot XYZ. No, no, no, this is what people see on Flip today. Okay. So this is just, you know,

JPEGs. Love JPEGs, but this is... Shickhorns with charts, with images. Yeah, well, not all of them.

I am my pudgy and my pudgy is me. But most of these are going to zero, right? Like, but there's like, incredible utility in some stuff as well.

Like I'm a huge believer in ENS. I absolutely love E&S. Own tons of them. Stuff that I think is worth millions of dollars, but nobody else believes it yet. But I'll just sit there and hold it until somebody else decides they want to name their, you know, child after their E&S or like a sports team or whatever is going to needs to own that E&S.

And there's incredible like profile utility in that. but today at this moment you say you just sold me and I'm going to you know go buy these ENS so we enable trading and sweeping and all the same things that you see on Jim and Jeannie and Blur or wherever else and it's it's pretty darn cool we also I can't show you because it'll docks me real bad but you know it'll docks your wallet I see so yeah so I have I have six wallets I have six wallets connect to my flip account because we have multi-wallet, multi-device, hardware wallet, hot wallet, mobile wallet, rainbow wallet, coinbase wallet, metamask, all connected to your flip account and you can

view an aggregated view of your portfolio. You can sweep and shop and transfer between all of those. It's a incredible all-in-one solution for NFTs that also has this like really impressive market data for any collection that you're interested in. Who's involved? Who are the top holders? What are they doing? What's the trait of these collections? This is awesome, man.

What's the team size behind, like, what do you guys? Who's building? We're very small. There's impressive. Yeah, we're a sub 10 person team. Pretty good. Yeah, and it's really cool. Like, you can go search for, you know, dictionary words.

and I want to buy a top 5,000 word and you can go find out what those ENS words are or like, here you go. Well, can we determine what the top 1,000 words are as valued by ENS names? Humans now finally can figure out what the best 100 words are. Yeah, half an eighth.

You can buy either.eath for 0.85eath, and you can buy it on flip. It's a top 1,000 word, 5,000 word. It's a dictionary, word and then when you go to buy it you can um i don't know what this is let's go to i love how we're just buying words now and not even thinking about it it's domain people been doing this for a while yeah this is thank you this is literally domains so i can buy this or i've ever had it phrase like that uh david dot eth is that a thing yeah yeah he's in uh he's in dave dow shout out to the dave dowel

telegram, at least I know a few of you guys are in here. Okay. By the way, if you are listening to this and your name is Dave, you are not in the Dave Dow. Here's the show. Then you need to DM me right now. So you can get into the Dave Dow telegram. The owner of Dave Dowell of Dave.

Dave. I don't know what that chill was about, but what I just did is I followed. I followed David.eath on flip. So I can also put it in a I want a buy folder. or I can add new folders. And then I say, if it ever goes for sale, if it ever gets listed, canceled, transferred. And then also for E&S, show me renewal and expiration events,

we'll send you a mobile notification that something happened with David.eath. So if your name is David and you want to own this, then you are not very smart if you're not subscribed to what's happening here. We show a history where somebody paid 32.8Eth for this. and they've held it since. Six ETH is back in whatever this was March 2020 and you can go look at that and say

oh that was on OpenC they have paid their royalties so like we're very much in the royalty conversation we want to be opinionated about that if I go to latest live sales. Can we move on from David.eath because I have just PTSD

from not purchasing David. dot eath. Yeah, that's fine. This is just the NFT market. So in the last minute, people have been trading. Wait, can we go to Ryan.d.Eath? What was the last price for Ryan. dot Eath? Was it above or below David. dot Eith? It's got to be above. Let's get the fuck out of here.

Let's get the fuck out of here. Let's see if we can find it as an asset, not as somebody's domain. He doesn't have Ryan. Dot Eith in this same thing. Because we're trying to search for it by any

to search for it somewhere else. But I'll... We'll solve that battle later. So I don't think he holds Ryan. This is awesome. So you think JPEGs are coming back then, Ledger? No. No?

They're not. How about a new round of J? Why are you building this? Because this is not JPEGs. This is NFT infrastructure. And NFTs are non-fungible tokens on a blockchain, and we are really good at showing what's happening on an Ethereum

NFT and an EVM compatible NFT in the future. Somebody needs to come give us a lot of money and we'll build this and we'll put it on arbitram and we'll put it on optimism and we'll put it on avalanche. We'll put it on wherever you want to put it. That's very expensive to take a blockchain and then put it in a database. So Ethereum layer one, we are presenting the market in a way that we can present, hey, unpaid, paid, partial royalties. what are the average royalties on blur?

What's the market share of blur and gym and open sea? What's going on with this NFT that I'm following? So the next thing I'm trying to show you without doxing myself badly is I can't do it. You can dox yourself. It's okay. I really can't. I want to be able to show you essentially like

my feed. So what we're releasing next week is I want to make you an offer. So what we have right now is we have some like onboarding stuff and you can look at your points and you can get some of that stuff. What we're about to release is

I want to make you let's see if I can do this without getting in trouble. By the way, Ryan, Ryan, that Heath was bought for 10Eath four years ago and it has not moved since. And what was David Doughtyth?

32 Eth, but it was bought in this last bull market. So what's your, hard to get prices covered on that one. What is your, your thing? Trustless. Stay. I know, David Hoffman.

Dotte. Okay. Who's that? You have any guy? You don't have your primary D.N.S. Don't I? No. You're called Practical B.

on ours. You must not have you. You didn't let it expire, did you, David? No. You go to a bankless.org, if you want. Are these yours? Yeah, that's on me. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's a crick punk. So we're releasing this next week. So this is our OTC interface.

Oh, that's awesome. I'm going to give you 0.01 for this. That's a good price for your crypto punk, David. I'm also going to give you, I'm going to give you a rocker punk. and 0.01E Oh, you can give me a bundle. You can bundle up a trade. I can bundle up multi-asset,

eth, weith, whatever you want. This is not released yet. I'm probably in trouble right now. I'm going to send this to you, multi-asset, and then I'm going to propose this trade to you. I got to go,

I'd have to go approve a couple things and all that. Sure, sure. It will send you a desktop notification that's in kind of a tweet deck type format. It's going to send you a mobile notification. It's going to have a publicly shareable link that you can just view the trade proposal. I'm going to be able to send you a message that says,

David, definitely do this. Accept this offer. And I say continue and I'm going to approve my weath, which is going to pay the royalties for my side. So this is positive royalty. It's a trade interface. This is all in our staging development. So I'm going to go away now before I make any really big mistakes.

So I'm going to do all that. Send it to you. And then you're going to choose whether you want to accept that deal or not. And what this does, here's what's cool about this. It's really awesome. It really prevents scamming. Like you think this is an approved wallet with an E&S attached to it. They've authenticated on flip.

They have a multi-wallet portfoling. portfolio on flip. And they can safely engage in this OTC trade that's built on top of C port. It's just not open C and hideous and whatever else. But we're using open technologies to build better interfaces and better tooling. And we're supporting creators that we partner with and we're looking for creators that want to work with us to be their official OTC platform to enable people following markets to say, I can't follow all this crap, but send me a notification when something cool happens. on stuff I own.

Beautiful. That's what I put this. There you go. That was a great. It's testament to what you're building and also the way that you present it that not a single person dropped off the stream. We're a, after going through all of that, going from charts to talk about Flip, we're still at 650 viewers.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on and helping us walk through this chart and also showing us your cool, spiffy new product. I appreciate it. We've been around a while, but honestly, when there's no market, you're building a product for where you think the market's going to go. And I think JPEGs with alt coins with pictures is really stupid.

I think your punk or my pudgy penguin is really cool. I also think ENS is really cool. And I think NFTs are going to be used in incredible ways that we don't understand yet for ticketing and access and membership and gateways and things that actually matter where you need non-fungible tokens, not ERC20s. but do not hold those JPEGs until you're buying power right now

you want to hold Bitcoin and Eith is the message from Ledger then you can buy the JPEGs later see he gets it it's easy it's so easy when you build the JPEG platforms and then buy the JPEGs later it's master plan guys I hope you enjoyed that looking at prices today Ledger thanks for thanks for coming on man it's great I love the energy

thank you so much it's been a real pleasure to be here Look, we're excited to weather the rest of the spare market with you for however long it goes or however short it is. We don't know. Of course, none of this, bankless listeners, has been financial advice. Crypto is risky. So are all the tokens, you could definitely lose what you put in. But we are headed west. This is the frontier.

It's not for everyone. This hasn't been financial advice, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.