Bankless - ETH 2.0 AMA with Danny Ryan

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

🚀 SUBSCRIBE TO NEWSLETTER: http://bankless.substack.com/ ✊ STARTING GUIDE BANKLESS: https://bit.ly/37Q17uI ❤️ JOIN PRIVATE DISCORD: https://bit.ly/2UVI10O 🎙️ SUBSCRIBE TO PODCAST: http://podcast.banklesshq.com/ 👕 BUY BANKLESS TEE: https://merch.banklesshq.com/ ----- GO BANKLESS WITH THESE SPONSOR TOOLS: 🌐 UNSTOPPABLE DOMAINS - HUMAN READABLE ETHEREUM & CRYPTO ADDRESSES https://bankless.cc/unstoppable 🌈 ZAPPER - ULTIMATE HUB FOR DEFI - ZAP INTO DEFI http://bankless.cc/zapper 💳 MONOLITH - GET THE HOLY GRAIL OF BANKLESS VISA CARDS https://bankless.cc/monolith 🤖YEARN - YIELD-SEEKING MONEY ROBOT THAT FARMS DEFI FOR YOU http://bankless.cc/yearn ------ ETH 2.0 AMA with Danny Ryan Danny Ryan is a researcher at the EF and is one of the lead coordinators behind the ETH 2. movement! Listen to Danny's talk at ETH Online! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEh4u5a-43o&t=1539s Check out ETH Online! https://ethglobal.online/#schedule ------ Don't stop at the video! Subscribe to the Bankless newsletter program http://bankless.substack.com/ Visit the official Bankless website for resources http://banklesshq.com/ Follow Bankless on Twitter https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ Follow Ryan on Twitter https://twitter.com/ryansadams Follow David on Twitter https://twitter.com/TrustlessState Follow DeFi Dad on Twitter https://twitter.com/DeFi_Dad ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case.

Y-Earn is DFI's first self-building project on Ethereum, focused on producing products for those who are interested in earning yield in D-Fi. Y-Earn's various products are all built to suit each individual investor's preferred level of risk, from various vault strategies that leverage D-Fi tokens to the safer EARN system which relies on stable coins. VALTS are aggressive yield-farming robots, each with a unique strategy that is designed to maximize the yield of the deposited asset. Y-Earn employs from the most informed developers in D-Fi to keep the vault strategies updated with the various yield-farming opportunities on Ethereum. For customers who are more risk-adverse, the Y-Earn's EARN product may be for you. EARN is a yield-aware dynamic money market that automatically seeks the best interest rates across the various D-Fi protocols and regularly migrates your deposited stable coins between the D-Fi protocols that are returning the best yield at the present moment. Y-earn is a system that is just a little over four months old, so things are still very much an experiment.

However, this hasn't stopped people from depositing over $700 million worth of assets into the Y-Earn system in order to find yield on Ethereum. Perhaps the people that deposited all this money were tired of constantly making daily transactions to follow the best defy interest rates, and maybe the gas fees that they were paying ended up eating too much into their profits. With Y-earn, it doesn't remove the risk of these various protocols that it leverages, but it doesn't It does remove the overhead of constantly trying to make sure you're finding the best yield, and also so that you don't have to pay for gas to switch up your assets. Check out the products that Y-E-E-E-E-E-E-R-N-F Finance. That's Y-E-A-R-N dot finance,

which I also have a nice statistics page to see what other people are doing. Bankless Nation. Do you want to go fully bankless, but in the real world, Monolith is the defy account that you need. It wraps your eth address in a bankless visa card, and it does so much more. It closes the loop from Fiat to D-Fi. So you can onboard Fiat to dye on Monolith with zero fees. Then you can convert that die to A-Di, which is an interest-bearing savings account.

Again, zero fees. And then you can spend that interest in the real world on a visa card. So you can finally buy your cup of coffee with interest earned in D-Fi. Guys, this is magic. This is the closest thing to the Holy Grail. crypto card and Monolith gives you all of it. You need to download the app at monolith.xyz to get your bankless visa card. It's optimized for European listeners. They'll be coming to the U.S. soon. And when you get that visa card, the monolith card, tweet about it when you do. I love seeing people

unpacking. Their beautiful bankless visa cards makes me realize that the revolution is here. Search Monolith in the app store. All right. Welcome Bankless Nation to another AMA. This isn't ask me anything. We've got Danny Ryan here, and we're going to introduce in a second, quick logistics. Here's how this works. You can view live on YouTube.

It's broadcasting now. You can ask your questions on YouTube. If you're a bankless member, you get prioritized questions in the bankless discord. So make sure you start pumping your questions for Danny. We're going to be talking about EF2. We're to try to wrap this up in about an hour. And I will interrupt at various points

and let you know how much time, remaining we have. This is a super important ask me anything because of the timing. ETH2 is coming. It really is. Despite what they say on Twitter, we just had Vitalik on the podcast to talk about the why of Ethereum. Now we want to do this, ask me anything with Danny Ryan to talk about the what, the how, maybe even the when, we'll see. Without further ado, I want to introduce you to Danny Ryan, who is an ETH two researcher, a coordinator of clients, a herder of cats. He is the guy to ask about ETH2 progress. Danny, how you doing, man? Great. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Okay, let's start here. You know, we get dipped on the first question.

On a scale of one to 10, how excited are you about ETH II right now? One to 10? I mean, definitely 10. I've been working on this for years. I can't believe that is true. but even before I do kind of took its current form, which it's been in that form for over a couple of years, I was working on proof of stake stuff in a different form. And so I am anxious and excited to get this thing out. I actually want to tell you a little story. So in Japan, they have these things called daurumas,

and these little dolls, and you draw in one eye, and you essentially make a wish or you make like a goal, and then when you're completed, you color in the other eye. And it's like a, it's a blind Buddha that like achieves enlightenment or something. And so I have this little white one, little white daura, and I colored in one eye in the beginning of 2018, because I was like, I'm going to ship Casper. Like we're going to ship it this year. It's the white da ruma. It's like a little ghost.

And this thing, it usually sits right there, but it's not there right now. It, it haunts me, right? It sits there and it looks at me and has one eye. And it had to shift it when we. we shifted to the ETH 2 and Sharding and everything combined. And so I'm very excited to take this little Daruma and give it its final little eye. And then you burn it. So that's going to be fun too. Fully formed. And that will achieve enlightenment is what you're saying. Is that for yourself or is that for all Ethereum's? Yeah. Anyone can share in the enlightenment. I will gladly share.

Danny, you had a really fantastic talk at the ETH Online Summit not too long ago where you talked about how the whole ETH one into ETH two transition, migration is a misnomer. And I thought that was a really fantastic perspective that I wished more people had. So I kind of want to give you the opportunity to kind of pitch to us, why is it not a transition? Why is it not a migration? And what is it really and how should we really think about this thing? Right. So check out this talk. It gets a little, it's like not incredibly technical but like gets into more the structures of these things. But we talk about this thing called ETH1. We talk about this thing called ETH1. We talk about this thing called ETH2 all the time. And what we think of as ETH1 is like Ethereum as is today.

And what we think of as ETH2 is like this thing that we're trying to build, which has proof of stake and charting and scalability, all this fun stuff. And I claim that we made a mistake in the naming and that it's a misnomer. And it implies this like sequentiality of the systems, meaning like, you know, we're going from Windows 98 to Windows 2000. It's like this whole new thing. Or we're going from like a car, a bike to a car, a car to an airplane. Whereas it really it's a more, it's more we're talking about layers of the system. So what when we think about ETH one, all of the like complexity,

like you have this tiny little proof of work thing. It's like from a software perspective, relatively simple. All the complexity of ETH one, all of the hard work. that's gone in for the past five years to iterate and upgrade and make this thing like what it is, is in this like what I call the user layer. It's in execution, it's in transaction management, it's in state sync,

and all these things that like make the user layer of Ethereum awesome and also a lot of things that make Ethereum hard. Where this proof of work modules just kind of state stable. What ETH2 is, is really taking this tiny little proof of work thing that's like the brain of the system and saying, can we reimagine, can we redesign the brain of the system to be more secure, more decentralized, and more scalable.

And that's what, you know, when we're talking about the ETH2 project, it's really, we want to replace the brains of the system with something more sophisticated, rather than replacing, like, the guts of the system. Like it's still the same system. And so what we consider ETH1, that state, that user layer, is to exist kind of with this new brain, what we call E2. And so there's probably some better terms to use there. Maybe we'll just call it serenity, the upgrade of Ethereum's core consensus, as it probably should have been called the entire time. So that's a little bit of that. Check out the talk. It's something that's important to me because it makes it hard to communicate about these things if we can't talk about them.

And so check it out. Maybe we can all begin to talk about the separation of layers in a more organized way. So just to kind of summarize that and make sure I'm on the same page, with Ethereum, there is the stuff that we do, right? The defy, yield farming, uniswap, anything that's a contract, right? Tokens, transfers, that's the stuff that we do. And then there's the infrastructure that supports that, right? And so the stuff that we do isn't changing. That's coming along with almost no changes.

It's how the machine of Ethereum comes to consensus around the stuff that we do that is being swapped out. And so the way I've explained this to a friend of mine is kind of like the Indiana Jones of the like taking the idol and the sandbag and swapping the sandbag on for the golden idol and then at the same time. Is that an accurate like illustration or maybe is that, did that lose some nuance? That's probably reasonable. I'll give you two others that like I think are kind of reasonable as well. Joe Lubin actually said this in a talk. I don't, there's been like this whole COVID online thing is like all blur.

so I have no idea what it was or when it was. But Joe Lubin was in some sort of like online thing said it's like, and I actually, I think mistakenly used this analogy earlier, but it's like a modern operating system. You upgrade your modern operating system. What happens? Usually if you choose to, like it feels very similar. Like you brought your files, you brought your programs, you brought everything.

And like it generally works. But maybe you have like some upgrade of hardware. you have some better security features and maybe you can like if you're a developer you can like get in and do some like new cool things and maybe you have a bigger hard drive but you're still working on what seems like the same computer your keyboard might click louder because you're into that but you know so that's why you can think about it is like the user layer your user experience can be very similar but if you choose to it can be enhanced over time and then another one is and I don't love this but it's because it's like weird like war analogy but imagine like

Ethereum is like some fighter pilot plane thing, jet, a jet, flying around. It's doing awesome stuff. And then like what we're doing is like essentially preparing the aircraft carrier and it lands. And like now we have like a bunch of other jets that are like all managed under the same system. Both those kind of suck, but you know, different ways to think about it. I'm still working on the memes and the analogies, but maybe. Yeah. Well, fantastic.

Yeah. And we'll add the Indiana Jones one to the roster. there, David. Nice one there. All right. So can we talk up for a minute? Because I think this is a huge question in the theorem and in the bankless community about the state of the test nets. So for people who have not caught up, right, I guess maybe zooming out, what we're talking about, the next thing that's coming is EVE 2 or Serenity, phase zero, right? And then we've had this series of test nets to get to a main net phase zero. Can you talk about, I guess, phase zero and the feature set of it and then the state of the most recent test nets that have happened

and kind of where we are now? Right. So what we're doing right now is we're bootstrapping the new consensus for Ethereum. We're bootstrapping this for sake consensus. And that's called phase zero. To be honest, like I think these the terms, These phases are like nice for technical discussions, but I don't think that are incredibly meaningful for the community, so I'm even just trying to talk about them differently. So what we're doing at the end of this year

is we are bootstrapping the new consensus mechanism. Ethereum is like a $50 billion blockchain. I don't know, it depends on the day, depends on the hour, depends on the minute. That's about right. But high value, a lot of activity, a lot going on. And it has this like this proof of word brain, It's relatively simple and it works.

So to do this in a sane and conservative fashion, the new consensus mechanism, which will ultimately drive Ethereum in the future is to be bootstrapped in parallel. So essentially, we're not gonna disrupt this thing that we call ETH1, the current Ethereum chain. Instead, we're gonna allow people to stake

and move real economic value into this parallel system. which is that proof of state mechanism, which is called the beacon chain, which is to be the brains of Ethereum in the future, and to bootstrap it in production, unaffecting the initial system, to kind of get everything right, to get stability, to get the software in production, to test the economics in real-word conditions, et cetera, et cetera. And so that's what we're doing at the end of the year is a bootchaping phase for the new consensus mechanism. If you're doing like the operating system analysis, analysis were like, you know, putting the operating system in beta and letting people test it and like they're getting early rewards for, I don't know, that's not a good. But so bootchrapping phase. That's like we're doing this in production and we're putting proof stake in production to bootchrap it to then take control of Ethereum in the future. We throughout this year and to a certain extent last year on single clients have been iterating on test nuts. I don't know how many there have been.

There have probably been like three or four public multi-client test nets. I might say multi-client because there are many implementations of this protocol, which you all are probably all aware of. So we have Madasha, Medaya, Medalla, whatever you want to call it. It is a test net. It has about 100,000 validators. Each validator is a 32 instance, and there's more than a thousand nodes.

There's kind of a distinction between validators and nodes. We can get in that later if you're interested. But about 1,000 nodes on this network, it is community driven and community controlled, meaning like the EF and client teams control probably less than 5% of the stake on this thing. And so it's broadly run by the community. It is not an incentivized test net, meaning that the incentive to be on it is there's no additional monetary incentive. of the incentive to be on it is to test out your software and kind of like show that this thing works

and get your system hardened and security and just kind of understand things before you move to maintain that. There's been some awesome things that happen, Medasha, you know, some initial stability, some craziness in terms of instabilities and some bugs and hardening that happen. And then a long stretch of stability.

Recently we've seen, about 50% of stake leave. I think a lot of people are at the point where I'm ready for main net. If I'm running on a cloud box, I don't really feel like paying for it. If I have it at home like, you know, screw it, I unplug it from the wall.

I don't know all the motives there, but plenty of people have turned their nodes off. So Medasha is actually in this time of no finality. You need two thirds on the network to finalize. And so it's in this like somewhat stressful state or the chains still being built, but things aren't being finalized, and still you can't aggressively as prune

and things like that. So what we're experienced with Medasha is actually what I would love to see, which is like one of the more stressful environments, you know, 100,000 validator test net in a pretty stressful environment. And we're seeing some awesome PRs and releases if you follow the client development,

you know, on better pruning strategies in this time of finality. It's highlighted, you know, a couple of, I think, I noticed on Lighthouse, Proto and I were looking at something and noticed that like the attestation pool was like, you know, had 400,000 attestations in it, which doesn't make any sense. But, you know, which could lead to memory spikes and stuff. So point being is, Medasha still exists. Medasha is in this like very stressful state and gives us a chance to harden clients and things

before we go to Mainnet. Additionally, we've had these like TestNet dress rehearsals recently. which is one of the more difficult parts of this process is really like that initial bootstrapping. It's the making the Genesis deposits and kind of coordinating all the clients at the same time to kick off Genesis. And so we've had a couple of these like TestNet dress rehearsals. The last one went really well. And so we're kind of in the final preparations for Mainnet because of these positive signals from test nets. And at the same time tying up various loose ends, which we can get into it.

that's the status that I don't know it says that that cover the testaments no that's super good that's fantastic and one of the things you mentioned is how these testaments are not incentivized when we call like bitcoin and ethereum we call these things like crypto economic systems or at least that's what vitala calls them that's really the only name that I can really think of that really gets on to what these things are crypto economic systems but right now what these test nets are are just crypto systems because they don't have the economics built into it so To the best of your ability, Danny, can you kind of tell us how have things gone differently because of the lack of incentivization? And maybe how do you expect things to change when phase zero rolls out, which is like quote unquote, an incentivized test net that is fully crypto economic.

There's a few things going on here. So one, like first and foremost, you bootstrap it off of goarly instead of Mayanette. If you ask a gorely, well, they'll give you, you know, 10,000 eth, no problem. And so the ability to kind of come in and largely affect these systems to like be a large player in the in the test net is pretty easy. And because of that people that don't necessarily like I don't have much care other than like my personal want to understand and participate in the system to like keep the value that I participated in running smoothly. So that's that's definitely one of the differences. and other differences that we've seen and why we did a couple of these test net dress rehearsals is that like in medasha we had initial instability during the first like 40 epochs or something and epochs like six and a half minutes

and primarily the reason was that some people that chose to be whales in this test net uh didn't turn their nodes on right uh i won't say i won't i won't name names uh but you know somebody that was like 10 percent stake was like oh shit i thought genesis was an hour later and like that can happen to main but like i think you're probably going to check double check triple check uh it cost you money time also like you can turn your note on two days before genesis i don't know why your note wasn't on you know so anyway um so that kind of stuff happens and that's why we did a couple of the dress rehearsals to really like get uh get a good genesis going um and then otherwise like if i'm running on a main net node, I have real money at stake. And not only can I make money,

but I can lose money. And so if I don't have my validator, I don't have my node running optimally, connect to the internet, you know, if a bug arises in my client, I'm going to like dig in and like figure out, is there a new release? Should I switch clients? Like I'm going to be making, I'm going to be pressured due to the loss of capital and my lack of ability to gain capital to fix things. And so what we've seen is, I mean, sometimes there are client errors. There are fewer and fewer, but if 10% network goes off because of client error, people are slow to fix it. And when people don't want to participate anymore, a lot of people are just like turning their machines off, which if I were on main net, I wouldn't do, I would exit. Right. Like if I'm like sick of this, like this is not for me, I'm going to

exit. I'm going to take myself out of participation. And so we, we see a lot of not quite rational activity if this stuff actually had value. And that's one of the reasons to go to main net and to bootstrap this thing with real production value is to like see how the economics work in production. So do you think when this is deployed to mainnet, Danny, some of some people have called this like an incentivized test net almost because, you know, there still could be some issues post mainnet. Do you agree with that lens? So I understand that framing. That's not really my framing. I think the major difference is between an incentivized test net and what we're doing is that the intent of going to main net here is that it is continuously, although it will be upgraded and change in form. That chain does become main net. That chain does become the history. Whereas an incentivized test net, I would say, has no intention to ultimately morph in the form.

into what main net is. And so it is early. There's a little bit less, there's real capital at stake. There's less at stake as in, there's probably less surface area to attack at the beginning and maybe less incentive for an attacker to come in. And so it does allow us to have training wheels on

to a certain extent. Transfers aren't enabled at the beginning, which in the event of catastrophe would allow the community to make maybe hard decisions on reverts and things like that. But so they're, you know, training, it's like training wheels main net rather than incentivized test net, in my opinion. I know that others call it an incentivized test net.

I think there's validity to that claim, but I think there's a definitely difference between a main net, you know, an early main net that's going to evolve into the full thing versus like a test net that like is incentivized and ultimately won't turn into the main net. Yeah, I got it. All right. So we went through all the test nets. I think the big question on everyone's mind is what's next.

What's left to do here? Correct. I mean, plain simple, the main thing to do is to release the version one in specs, the community to choose a deposit contract, main net canonical address, and a Genesis date. There are a couple of reasons that myself and client teams have not done that final release of specs that would include what we would call a canonical. address and date. And the primary being, and I haven't talked about this yet, I've been meaning to put it down in paper and a blog post. I've also just kind of been monitoring the situation. But the primary being, there's this crypto library. It's called BLST Blast. It's built by Supernational. It was created actually this year, and it is a highly optimized BLS crypto library.

and it's awesome. You know, like 2x gains on the fastest thing, and it's actually easier to read and reason about, and there's like ongoing formal verification of it. This library is critical to creating keys, signing messages, and critical in early phases in that if you use this library to generate your keys, they need to be secure, if they use it to generate your wallets,

they need to have like tightened good randomness and stuff. And if you're actually signing your deposits, which has a signature associated with it, it needs to be correct. And so this library is currently under audit. It is also under ongoing formal verification, which has some initial results. That's definitely not going to be ready until Q1. But it is under security audit with NCC. It's about two weeks in, and we have another about two weeks of this audit to go. given that how critical this library is and given that if there is a fundamental error in this library,

we could really fuck some shit up in terms of Genesis deposits. That is the blocker. There are a number of other things going on. Clearly, clients are hardening. Clients are tying up loose ends. There's been a lot of active engagement on Madasha with some of the things that users are seeing in terms of resource consumption and stuff. So that's ongoing. There are some ongoing client audits and things.

And there are some loose ends being tied up around like user experience on the launch pad and other various tooling around deposits. But those things are all going to happen and are happening kind of in parallel. But the big walker on kind of finalizing the last little bits is this audit. One of the tools I've started to use recently is Zapper. For those of you that were part of the 2017 bull market, it was characterized. by just opening a blockfolio and refreshing it over and over and over again. And also anytime you ever made a trade, you would have to go into blockfolio and manually input that trade information to make sure that your portfolio that you think that you have matches what you actually have.

With Zapper, you don't have to do any of that anymore because all you have to do is Zapper is input your Ethereum addresses, and then Zapper will give you a really elegant report as to where all your money is. So there will never ever be any disconnect between the money that you'll think that you have and the money that Zapper reports to you. Zapper looks directly on-chain and gives you a nice portfolio summary of all your assets and how many assets and all of your debt and all of your lending positions, all of your positions all at once. So there's no more editing your portfolio because Zapper just does it for you. One thing that I thought was really useful about Zappers was when I plugged my wallets in, I found that I had submitted liquidity to Uniswap forever ago and without Zapper, I would

probably lost that forever because Zapper knows where your money is better than you do. It's also the gateway to investing your money into this ever-expanding list of available defy platforms like Curve, Balancer, Uniswap, yearn. In the bankless nation, there is this growing number of money Legos and keeping track of them all is just super overwhelming, which is why you could just go to Zapper and Zapper will solve the problem of there just being too many money Legos to choose from. So check them out at zapper.5. Enter your Ethereum address. and check out your portfolio and see if there's anything that you missed. Is a bankless bank account.

But here's the problem. It doesn't have a human readable name. It's represented by this long hexadecimal string that no one can read. Unstoppable domains has the solution to that problem. It provides a domain name for your Ethereum address. So instead of telling someone to send you funds to 0x, E3BA, blah, blah, blah, you can tell them to send funds to your name. a domain name for your Ethereum address. At Unstoppable Domains.com, you can search for blockchain domains like this and find tools

to easily launch websites on decentralized web technology like IPFS. You can even have unstoppable domains help you manage your dot crypto or dot eth or even dot zill domain addresses at their unstoppable domains manager. Websites have domain names.com.org. Your bankless bank account on Ethereum should have a domain name too. So go to Unstoppable Domains.com, register a domain name for your Ethereum address now. Unstoppable Domains.com. So, Danny, there's a few questions with regards to the canonical deposit address. How do you foresee people figuring out which one is the canonical address? And why don't we

just have a clear and cut answer as this is the address? I mean, for one, who can dictate such a thing. This is likely going to be signaled from many different angles from the community kind of all at once. I think that client teams, EF, large community entities that have stakeholders in the community are planning on kind of coalescing on a single deposit contract and signaling that all at once to

One, kind of solidify like the community has chosen this, but two, to also publish this information simultaneously, kind of all over the web, and it can't simultaneously a campaign that says trip, check, double check, triple check, this before you send any any money to it. Because at the end of the day, the bootstrapping of the serenity, the E2 consensus, the beacon chain, it happens with no changes to either. ETH1. And so this bootrapping mechanism, like the gateway to enter into this consensus mechanism, is a contract on ETH1. And so I can deploy the bytecode. You can deploy the bytecode. Anyone can deploy the bytecode. We can verify that all of these are like the bytecode that we all intended to use, but if we don't all choose the same one, you know, there could be issues with loss of funds and other things. And I think maybe even more concerningly, I can take that by code and modify it and maybe put some sort of secret withdrawals in there.

Obviously, if you're verifying the bytecode, you couldn't create like a fishing contract, but you could create like a contract people are just wasting money. But I'm definitely like, we're all kind of concerned about fishing and so we do want to make sure that there's like a good community push to kind of like coalesce very clearly on this.

You know, I think this information will end up in that EIP that I wrote up, wrote up, it'll end up in the V1O specs on the spec repo. it'll end up in many blog posts. Hopefully, like, block explorers and different things will also all be kind of publishing and giving names and access to this information. I think that's pretty interesting that for just a brief moment, Ethereum really is emphasized by the social layer rather than the code layer

when it comes to, like, determining which is the quote-unquote real deposit contract. I think that's a pretty interesting feature. And we, you know, any time there's a hard for, work, it's not, there's maybe not a lot of risk in those, but like that's a point in which the social layer with theorem goes, yes, we're doing this, right? And like, if it's adding like a BLS pre-compile and it's adding, you know, it's fixing gas pricing, that's not like, the social layer doesn't have to like signal super strong, but this because it's, it's, it's not a hard fork, right? It's a deployment of a code and pointing to a code in this layer. So there's

little bit more opportunity for confusion and other strange issues that might arise there. So the BLS blocker may be news to some folks who are listening to this and watching to this, watching this. But let's take kind of the happy path. So audit's done in like two weeks, Bison Trails, who's a staking company in the space, they're, you know, like doing stuff with ETH2. They wrote a post that said, we expect the deposit smart contract and more exact dates to be released sometime in the next two weeks. They put this post out this week. We still expect for Maynet to launch in mid to late November. I guess, you know, the question to you, Danny, is when deposit contract? Let's take the happy path where BLS goes well, the audits come back, everything's

clean. What days we're looking at? Happy path is a couple of weeks and a minimum genesis date in 2020. Very cool. We've got some holidays to navigate too. Is that on folks' minds? To a certain extent, like, yes. So we have some ability to select with this parameter called Min Genesis date, right? And that is like a Unix timestamp that is the earliest Genesis can happen if a minimum number of deposits are hit. And so there's a little bit, like if we assume optimistically that like deposits come in and we hit, we hit it, no problem, then like we do kind of get to select a date. And that would probably try to avoid any major holidays. But if we don't hit those numbers, then Genesis date, Genesis time is like totally up, up in the wind. And, you know, hopefully, hopefully that's not what I have to tell my wife that we're doing.

doing on Christmas morning or something like that. Yeah. Whatever. You know, I take that back. I think she would accept it as like a pretty reasonable gift. Yeah, absolutely. Well, okay, so, you know, the interesting thing about that, I think, is like, this is going to be probably a light holiday year for a lot of people too anyway, right?

So at least with respect to travel. So maybe not all bad news if that happens. Here's a question from somebody in the community is asking to something you just sort of address, Danny. How fast you guys think the deposit contract will hit 500,000 aeth, and maybe just give some background onto why that 500K-Eth is an important number? Great. So I'll do the background first. So essentially, that is the minimum amount that can kick off the chain. If more deposits happen before that minimum genesis time, it can be kicked off with a higher amount. Initially, this number has put it two million. to find the balance between being able to bootstrap the chain, but not have like a whale control the entire thing. Obviously, there are people with 500,000 eth. There aren't an incredible amount of people with 500,000 eth.

But there are players that could potentially game that. And so the other balance between having enough ETH to kick it off and be in a kind of in a secure zone is to, in the, in the secure zone is to, in the, these early phase of ETH 2, there are risks that wouldn't necessarily exist in say two years time. There is kind of this unknown lockup, which as ETH1 gets integrated into ETH2, you are then able to liquidate your validating ETH. But until then you're kind of like you're in it to win it. You're a validator.

And you can exit, but then your ETH is sitting kind of in limbo. And we don't have a date on when that happens. So it's kind of an unknown variable, right? Right, right. So we do expect a much lower participation early on and much higher reward than say in two years where, I don't know, say in some amount of time where the system is hardened, the system is hardened, so there's less technical risk and there's easier paths for liquidity. So we do expect like there to be some amount of barrier to everyone,

participating with all their ETH, right? And so given that, the low 500,000 is kind of like, in the event that it is not incredibly enticing to be one of the bootstrap validators, it's definitely an achievable number. And so it's, it would be in a much lower security environment. Obviously, ETH is worth much more than it was, maybe when some of these decisions were made

and ETH is worth like $90. And so 500,000 isn't like a crazy low security environment, but it's really kind of finding the balance between what is the minimum that we can really expect in this high risk phase balanced with what's the minimum we can get away with in terms of security to kick this thing off. Like obviously 20,000 eth is not a sufficient number. But it's a little bit of guesswork because of a lot of the unknowns in terms of the incentives and who's going to show us. up on day one. I guess, you know, to throw some numbers out here. So I don't have the calculator in front of me, but if you've got 500, if there's 500,000, ETH in there, like, rewards are going to be a lot higher. So we're talking definitely double digits, right? Maybe upwards close to like 20%ish range. Yeah, yeah, I just put this in that EIP 2982. So let's check it out.

Yeah, it's like 23.5% is the maximum annual, east denominated, which is important, not dollar denominated. Yes. Sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, who like, I finish that sentence, Danny. I know where you're going to do it, do it. Who denominates an eth? Bankless station does. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't mean like, in terms of dollar amount, like, what is that even, like, oh, yeah, yeah. It changes that we fucking. But like, okay, but here's so, so here's what's interesting. So 23% on the, if it's close to 500K, right? So, and that would be sort of threshold to booting this up. We have, so, you know, 500,000. ether right now prices what 410-ish eith price so that'd be like 200 million dollars parked in

the staking contract basically we have 8.9 million eth locked in defy that's like close to um how much is that it's like 8% 8% and that is billions of dollars um yeah it's i mean we've got billions of dollars locked in defy and the ethin defy is making like i don't know two three percent um not even i thought you could make like 10 000 percent well that that was the summer and that you know that didn't last and that's on your stable coins not on your ether yeah you don't get eith denominated returns are the thing so um i don't know if we look at defy history uh at least for me it feels pretty confident that are we going to have people stake eith in eith 2 for 23% if if denominated gains there's definitely going to be a subsection I feel like we're

going to easily cross that threshold but it is guess because the the risks of the risk like smart contract risk is high right especially when you say it's participating in your system and there are risks any too right like so that's not just a free you don't just get a free 23% you have to run your node there are like cool attack risks, there are all sorts of stuff. And so the, and early on, there's just more unknowns about like how stable this thing is, which clients are the best to use and that kind of stuff. So like that number accounts for additional risks. But in the long term, you know, when say 8, 10 million eth is in this thing, as we expect in the long term, there's going to be a lot

fewer risks because this system will have existed in production and because a lot of these like the clients I think will be much more hardened by then and liquidity much more easier access to liquidity exists you expect a much lower return so it might look eventually like those meager defy returns but but then it'll be much more of a risk-free type of or low risk lower yeah those defy Yeah, it's a really nice property that I'm not sure if folks are aware of. It feels very scalable on that. So, Danny, as this deposit contract gets up and running, I'm seeing kind of different parties that are relevant here. There seems to be, like, you know, people that are going to stake on day one no matter what.

And perhaps these people are a long time, like Ethereum people that probably, like, had, you know, like, perhaps even not participated in the Genesis sale. I would imagine Vitalik would be part of this group. And then there's the group of people that I think are just going to throw a few eth in, just a small percentage of their total value into the deposit contract. And then there's people that do nothing. Is that kind of how you see this stratification? And also, if somebody just doesn't want really to do anything, do they have to do anything at all ever?

Great. So I think that's a reasonable way to think of the stratification. I mean, there's people that, it just, it depends on your stack, obviously. You know, I don't expect most people to go all in on their stack regardless of the quantity. You know, if you have 128 eth, you might run a validator. If you have 128,000 eth, you might run, you know, a thousand validators. But I don't, someone's going all in. Obviously, someone's like been waiting for this for five years.

is like going to drop their entire stack in it and like it has no intention of selling any of their eats for the next 10 years and it's like I'm all in but I think you're going to see much more of the people in that middle ground where like you begin to experiment you throw in a couple validators and get your toes wet and kind of see how the system evolves see how rates evolve see how participation evolves and then potentially go in more and that's that's kind of on the on the individual basis but there's also there's a lot of other like complicating factors to this engagement of. You mentioned bison trails.

There's a number of these like staking providers and institutional players, which is good. I mean, there's a demand for this stuff. So I'd rather there'd be a ton of them, and it seems like there's going to be a ton of them rather than just like one or two. But some people might choose rather than to participate at home, might participate in one of these like larger pools.

Or, you know, if you don't have there, to ETH, you might choose to participate in one of these pools with a smaller denomination. And then, yeah. So, I mean, that's the range of that. And then the, what, your second question was, uh, what if people, people, they don't really care to stake, then just want to get on to ETH too. How does that? That goes back to like one of the early questions we talked about in like this, what ETH one is,

is the existing Ethereum chain, the state and the transactions and kind of like the continuation of that. And the plan is that this chain is governed, that state is governed by proof of work. And at some point in the future, there will be a hot swap of the consensus from proof of work to this beacon chain, proof of stake. And things will just be uninterrupted. Your applications, your contracts, and your eth will just exist in this new environment. And so, yes, if you don't want to do anything, don't do anything. Honestly, like phase zero, honestly, this like bootstrapping consensus is for stakers.

It's for people that want to get involved. It's, you know, obviously like there are stakers, there are dat developers, there are community members and like the people kind of span the gamut. But like if you're not interested in being a staker, then like just let it bootstrap, let it go and enjoy the fruits of it in due time. This is going to be pretty historic though. I mean, this is the first time of like kind of a live network is attempting to switch. over from proof of work to proof of stake. I've called this like economically if like if we think

eth is money is a monetary asset, monetary type asset. This is almost like a initial bond offering for the Ethereum, you know, nation because you're able to put that monetary asset in a bond, stake it and receive some sort of reward. And all of this is happening before our eyes live. It's going to be, I think, one of the most fascinating economic experiments, you know, maybe in history. ever yeah so here's a reader question though so i think you know back in 2017 we we faced kind of a couple of years of what felt like serenity delays eith2 delays the reader asked or the watcher is asking what's the most likely reason why eith2 effort continues to feel like it gets stalled or delayed like why has that been happening and like how do we know it's not going to happen again

either at this phase zero or maybe even like phase one because like we get phase zero but still phase one and phase one point five can until we can start doing things with it why the delays right um so this problem the set of problems um has moved from the abstract the concrete um over the course of many years um this research effort the abstract uh has been ongoing since before the the launch of Ethereum Mainnet and continued for many years. It had many false starts. It had meandering paths. And it took a long time to bring the fundamental research

into a concrete reality. That even at the end of 2017 was still happening. Some of the fundamental research driving the core of the proof of stake and the core of the charting was still really getting out the door. At that point, we were also beginning. development and there was optimism that all the hard problems were solved. But it wasn't really until this mid-2018 shift where the abstract firmly began moving into the concrete. But moving into the concrete first had to move into specifications. And specifications took us

a long time because these things are complicated. And so there was optimism that the early specifications were kind of where we needed to be and that implementation could quickly follow the specification time took more into firmly into the 2019 range and thus really the implementations were getting started and expertise engineering expertise in this domain was being built but we weren't at the point in which this stuff could be shipped really once the specifications solidified and implementations could really bite in and dig in. In mid-2019, did this stuff concretely begin to move out the door?

And what we've seen is client engineering teams, first and foremost, understand this stuff and figure out how to build and manage it. It's one thing to write it down theoretically. It's another to actually create sophisticated systems to do so. And what we do have now are sophisticated systems that can handle proof of stake and handle sharding. And that's what's being kind of finally battle tested and moving into production end of this year. So there's a couple of things there. There's the abstract of like actually just abstractly can we solve these research problems.

There's writing specs down. And then there's like the actual building of production systems. I would claim that on the abstract side, on the research side, there are not a lot of unknowns. We do have very firm grasp on the reality of the system that we're trying to build. And on the specification side, we do have clear paths to production grade specifications on phase one, phase one. This stuff is still a bit influx, but is in a place where we're kind of hardening and refining rather than coming up with the basics. We've also gotten better at writing specifications. We have like a framework with how we write specifications.

We have like standard ways to write these things and standard ways to test and validate what we're writing. So those two, the research stuff is not a big blocker. Specifications is ongoing, but we're in a pretty good place. And on the actual engineering side, engineering phase one, an engineering phase one with five, it's hard. Like plain and simple, this stuff is hard. Any amount of work and any amount of iteration is hard.

But the foundation of these systems and the foundation of these engineers and these teams is laid. And so when you're talking about expanding, say the role of what a validator does, which happens in phase one, they have additional duties, not just the beacon chain,

but to these shard chains. This is an extension of what is already robust software. There's already like generally frameworks for how to deal with validators, how to kind of shuffle them around, how to have different duties and store what they're doing and manage caches and shuffling all sorts of stuff.

So a lot of the fundamental problems are solved. It's really extending the ability of these systems. And so I will say this time and time again, this stuff is hard. And like fundamentally, like that's the answer. That's why this, that's why their delays. This stuff is hard. It's never been done before.

But we, the researchers, the developers, the testers, that everyone kind of involved in the system are much better positioned to move professionally and to move quickly on subsequent phases. And so, yes, there is complexity. Yes, I will not give you a timeline. But the ability to extend these systems and the ability of the engineers and the teams, you know, is up there.

Awesome. Thanks for that, Danny. One question that we have coming in from the YouTube is, what would you like to see from the client teams? You mentioned loose ends are being tied up. One thing, personally, I'd like to see is the new client switching schema. I actually don't know what that is. Maybe you could help elaborate on that.

Great. So one thing, I'm going to beat the drum on client diversity all day, every day. I think that we have a little bit unhealthy distribution. The prison team has been around for longer than any other team, and they've had public test nets for much longer than the other team. So I think a lot of the community is kind of anchored on this client because they're just familiar with it. And it's a good client. But there are other very excellent clients.

And so what we saw in Medasha was we saw early Medasha, we saw a critical error with how Prism was handling time, which caused like some madness. It also eliminated us to the fact that like Prism was probably 70 plus percent of the network. And during that, we could have seen. a much quicker resolution of this error if validators were able to cleanly, simply, and securely swap clients. But there actually was not like a standard in place for me that'll cleanly do that. And actually, if I naively just swap my client due to the nature of the timing error on the prism client, I might actually have been liable to be slashed if I didn't like port the information of my previous messages to this new client.

And so one of the great things, there's a lot that came out of that Midasha incident. I think all clients are like 10 times better since that incident because they got to deal with like a crazy stressful forking scenario with like 10% of the network that remained alive. So that's good in and of itself. But another thing that came out of it was there's this

validator database like interchange format. Essentially if I'm running Prism, I can go, you know, export validator DB and then I have like this file and then if I want to run Lighthouse or Nimbus or Taku I can just go import validator DB import keys or like import my keys and I'll say do you have an existing DB or something and you give them the file I don't know what the UX around it is but this standard exists so that I can safely and easily kind of port between between clients and

so that's that's what they were mentioning there and this There is a standard. There is a standard that is implemented, I know by Lighthouse, and I believe by Teku and maybe by Prism. And the standard is being prepped to be an EIPERC. And so that's one of the kind of things, like when I say loose ends that are being tied up so that these, you know, people not only can run their clients, but in exceptional scenarios can run and manage their clients. Another thing that I, it's kind of funny, it's like, I think Techu like recently merged a PR that actually lets you submit exits, right? Like that's, that's like the tail end of the validation process and like not something we're like consider, like that you, like when you're imagining a test net, you're usually like genesis and like run stably. But because of that, you know, they had this like feature just kind of like hanging in an issue of actually being able to submit an exit, you know. And so that's something that like when I say loose ends, that's not a complex feature. It's just sign a message and broadcast it.

But it didn't exist. And so that's the kind of stuff in addition to the final hardening and kind of security preparations that are happening. One thing I want to go back to the switching, the client switching as schema scheme, I guess. Historically, we've had instances in Ethereum 1.0 where one client, got dedossed, right? And so it was, this was the Shanghai attacks way back when. And if, and, you know, there was made, basically, if I'm remembering correctly, there's basically just two clients at the time, and one client went down. And the reason why Ethereum didn't go down was because the other side of Ethereum, which was the, what was the other client?

There was parity and death. And I think they actually both independently got attacked, but at different times. At different times, right? And so like they said, one was the backstop for the other. And what you're talking about with these switching schema, switching validators in Ethereum 2.0 is that we're trying to find a way to just switch at the press of a button, right? And so for people that's trying to attack Ethereum, it's like playing whackamol because what these clients are trying to do is they're trying to make such an easy way to switch on to a new client that may not be succumbing to whatever tack you're trying to have. So it's just about producing anti-fragility. This is all correct, right? Right, right. And some of the

this we get just by being in a multi-client paradigm without active switching, right? So if a client that is one-third of the network, or say a client's like 25% of the network and it gets attacked and everyone wants to take down, taking down, the chain can still be built and it actually can still be finalized. Now take a client that's 50% of the network, the chain can still be built if that client is taken off, but it can't finalize. So it can still provide liveliness and some quality of service, but it can't provide that crypto-economic finality. that we would desire. And so that's another component.

So if there's a 50% client taken off and there's not a good way to switch, then we're kind of in this limbo state where we're not finalizing. And so this adds additional ability to rectify scenarios. And personally, if you're a validator and you just want you want good uptime,

like if you have issues with a client, you wanna be able to switch. Regardless of whether there's an attack. So this just kind of provides that baseline ability to be able to manage and control your own destiny. And that's kind of alluded to the fact that I think that Prism has too high of a community share right now because we have four clients.

Four very viable clients that are going to main net. We have an additional client, Lodestar with a JavaScript client. They're awesome. They bring incredible JavaScript tooling, but they're not quite ready for mainnet. And these four clients, if we had, say, like every client had 20 or 30% of the network, then we'd have like this kind of built-in redundancy where if a client goes down, the liveliness remains, the finality remains live.

Whereas if we have a client that has like a huge percentage of the network, they just, it embodies like a huge amount of much more risk for both the users, the validators and kind of their profits, as well as this finality mechanism of the protocol. again, like being able to switch easier helps in the event that a majority client has issues. But I'd also love to see a better distribution in general. Very cool. And we have four viable clients. So like use them.

Maybe we'll see some of that, particularly when we get to, you know, production, mainnet and real money is at stake. And people want some redundancy. I get to one client outage. So let's hope for that. Here's another viewer question. So after phase zero, how long until phase one? and two. And maybe let me just slip a phase like one.5 in there conceptually,

realizing this is all part of serenity, of course. But what about these other phases? So give us happy path, maybe. Yeah, I mean, I'm, um, these client teams, uh, they have, uh, they're, they're much larger than they were a year ago. Uh, they've been encouraged to kind of like hire and build up the expertise. Uh, but they generally have like some like, very expert resources that the leads that are driving a lot. The goal and the attention is to get phase zero out the door and shift a lot of these expert resources to sprint on phase one.

It's been very difficult to prioritize the development of phase one by these client teams while they have the impending launch of phase zero. But phase zero will go in more into an iterative maintenance mode for these clients and the expert resources will spend day and night working on shipping phase one. I think that it's realistic to see that next year, but I need these engineers to dig in come January 3rd

and begin to flush it out. Again, a lot of the core of this system and a lot of the complexity of the system is the managing of the speaking chain of hundreds of thousands of validators and consensus entities and caching and, databases and all sorts of stuff, and a lot of that is in place. And a lot of what phase one is kind of an extension of a lot of those basic building blocks. So I'm pretty confident that we'll get significant kind of basis in place early next year

and test isn't going. But there's a lot of unknowns. So looking at that, so phase zero builds the brain, right? So we've got this whole body that is Ethereum. It's got its own separate brain. Now we're building another brain over here, but it doesn't have. have a body yet, right? So it's in kind of this lab. And then phase zero launches with, you know, and we're building the brain, which is kind of the consensus engine, right? What additional

benefits do we get with phase one? We had Vitalik on the podcast and he was talking about, hey, it's kind of like a charted data availability layer for us. So are there any wins there? And then phase one.5, it's kind of my impression that that's the point at which we can we can delete the other brain and we can merge the body and like the the bodies together into one thing. But what are the wins for phase one? Yeah. So the goal, one of the primary goals is to migrate the existing Ethereum chain from proof work for mistake. In the meantime, while this proof of stake mechanism is being bootstrapped

and built and bedded in production and kind of iterated it on, we will also extend that proof of state mechanism to come to consensus on a lot of of data. It's sharded data and provide a whole host of extended data, layer one data availability capabilities. Essentially, we expect this consensus mechanism be able to consensus on anywhere from like one to four megabytes of data per second. And that's what phase one is, is taking that consensus and getting it to come to consensus on a lot of data. And data is kind of this weird thing where like, I'm aware of how important layer one data can be to applications and things,

but I think maybe the broader community is just beginning to kind of bite into what layer one data even means and what it can do for us. And I distinguish data from data and computation. So like layer one data in phase one doesn't really have like a layer one meaning. It's just the ability for the consensus system to like make strong crypto, economic claims that this data exists and is available. So what does data do for us if we don't have computation? Well, I think first and foremost, what we expect it to be used for is roll-ups, which is like one of the main scalability avenues that Ethereum wants to take in the short term,

but also probably the medium and long term, where the amount of layer one data dictates how much these systems can scale. I think you can get a couple of order of magnitude with just the data of the single Ethereum blockchain today. But with 100x that in a sharded solution, we can take those two orders of magnitude and multiply them by another couple and get some pretty incredible scaling. But another interesting thing is like, what is layer one data? What can we do with it?

You know, if we don't put computation on it? I don't know. Like there might be all sorts of crazy stuff. Like just having this extended capability, one, I think is going to provide us like, quite a bit of scaling through roll-ups. But there's probably all sorts of decentralized applications and things that we haven't even thought of that all of the innovators out there

and all the people that always wanna play with the new gadgets are going to take an extent. And so layer one data, we expect to just be an asset in and of itself. And so phase one, even though the existing proof of work chain, what we call ETH one, isn't integrated back into the system, it can learn about this system, system through a light client on ETH1 and have access to make proofs about this data availability

layer. And so all of these roll-up mechanisms that are in production today and kind of on the verge of being in production in the next quarter or so can not only leverage the layer one data of the existing Ethereum chain, but this highly scalable data layer of kind of the beacon chain system. And so we do expect there to be some pretty major gains. Expect this to be a pretty big asset to the community at that phase. And then subsequently we'll have the integration of the existing theorem chain into this proof of state consensus for a little bit more native access to that data layer. All right. So we've gone through kind of all the phases, right? So again, Happy Path.

Maybe it looks like Happy Path says that the contract, will ship and staking will ship this quarter. And then Happy Path would maybe say phase one ships next year. I think that maybe the last question, the one to wrap on, Danny, is when will the old brain die? When will we finally be rid of proof of work for good? Give us another happy path on that, because that would make me very happy.

When it's ready? There is, so there's been a lot of work done on this. Mikael from TXRX at Consensus and Guillaume from the Gepheme at the Ethereum have worked on a prototype of the basic, the merge, the beacon chain controlling the consensus of existing Ethereum. It's great because it reuses most of the software, it's sophisticated software, V-1, Geth, et cetera. And it reuses the same public interfaces.

And so you can take existing wallets and stuff and just interact with Ethereum, but in this new environment. So we like used metamass to send transactions. to an Ethereum chain controlled by the beacon chain. Very cool. In addition to that, there's now, there are probably three or four of us built working on this merge,

and now there's upwards of like 10 people. There's a lot of different things to think through, like Shard data fee markets, actually how you handle security at the point of merge, you know, when the proof of work dies and the proof of state takes control, you know, at this inflection point, like what are the things to think through.

We're currently prototyping that inflection point. And a number of other things. Like at that point, you have the ability for native validator withdrawals and more native deposits. And so figuring out the mechanisms of withdrawing and withdrawing to contracts and all that kind of stuff.

That stuff is all in the works and that stuff is all very independent of this phase one development and is happening in parallel and kind of picking up steam. So I think that by mid-next year, we will have pretty robust prototypes and beginning to have pretty robust specifications of the different dimensions of this problem. And although I think client teams will be digging very deeply into phase one at that point,

we'll be ready to really plan and begin for serious planning of the merge. So, you know, take it, take it, take it, take it for what it, what it is. I, like, I have, like, we all have like an optimal path and like I probably have a better understanding of some of the problems at hand than others. But these are deep and complex problems. And there's a lot of different moving parts. And I don't want to, I don't want to put engineering teams in the position of having an arbitrary deadline that I happen to say on a podcast. I'm not going to say it. That is completely fair. Thanks a lot, Danny. Yeah, Danny, we want to give a big tip of the hat to spearheading this entire effort. So, you know, thank you for everything that you have done and, you know, pushing the boulder up the hill so far. And so go ahead.

Thank you. I get the chance to talk about it and I get the chance to work with kind of in the middle of a lot of it. But like tipping my hat to all the incredible researchers at the Ethereum Foundation and elsewhere. and like the like the engineering talent on this project is is unbelievable and they're really like the unsung heroes of this process so shout out to them yeah definitely shout out to them danny if there's one thing that the bankless nation could help with this effort what would it be what what could listeners and viewers do to to make sure that you know ethereum 2.0 comes alive in the way that we wanted to i mean phase zero is for stakers um if you are

planning on getting involved, get involved today. Check out the East Staker community. Dig deep, run some software. Run some non-majority client software. Help yourself and help the network by using a diversity of software. So I mean, that's the big shout out. If you're planning on staking otherwise, if you're just in the Ethereum community or you're building daps, like keep doing what you're doing. We're trying to make a better future for you. But like there's a lot of incredible shit going on today. So like if that's your thing, just stay heads down and keep making it there. I'm awesome. Absolutely. Okay. And if you guys are interested in doing that, I would actually super recommend the ETH online global event that's tomorrow. There's going to be a talk about

staking for beginners at 17-EDT or 1700 hours EDT whenever that time zone is. You can check it out at ETHGlobal. Online. There's a schedule there. A bunch of other stuff too as well, such as EIP-1559. And if you're interested in a lot of the content that Danny was talking about just now, you're probably going to be interested with all that content going on there. So learning more, that would be a great resource. Danny, thanks so much for this AMA. Really appreciate your time. Thank you.

It's my pleasure. Talk to you all soon. Cheers. Take care, Danny. Thanks a lot.