Bankless - ROLLUP: Friend.Tech | SBF to Jail | SEC vs Coinbase

Starting point is 00:00:00 Now Ethereum is going to become Uber. Now Ethereum is going to become decentralized Twitter. And it just never seemed to kind of click for me. We made some progress. We did episodes with like Farcaster, for example, and Lens. Cautiously excited about those and bullish on those when I started seeing them. But the question is always, how do we get mass adoption? Friend.com and this experiment, again, I'm not saying it's going to be friend.

Starting point is 00:00:21 Dot tech, guys. Okay, don't hear me. This is a POC, okay? This experiment showed me how it can work in the same way that CryptoKitties showed me how NFTs can work. Bankless Nation, happy third Friday of August. David, what time is it? It's the Bankless Friday Weekly Rollup where we cover the entire weekly news in

Starting point is 00:00:42 crypto, which is always an ambitious never yet. We persevere nonetheless into the frontier. How are you doing, Ryan? I'm doing fantastic. I'm excited to talk about friends, how you sell your friends this week, because that's what you've been doing. You bought some of Ryan shares. Yeah, and then you sold them right after it.

Starting point is 00:00:59 That's right. That's topic number one. It's this. app called friend. Tech that hit, I think Friday after we recorded the last roll-up. And everyone on Crypto Twitter was using it. I used it. It's kind of interesting. We're going to talk about that. Number one, friend.com. This new app, is it a fad or is it a new paradigm? What else we got, David? Coming up next, we got SEC back in the hot sea after six law professors, A16Z and paradigm, who both employ lawyers, all voice their disbelief about how the SEC ought to approach

Starting point is 00:01:29 crypto and proposes something new in lieu of that. Also, SBF is on the move. It seems like, David, you might now be neighbors with Sam Bankman-Fried. That's exactly right. This is a factual statement. After that, we're talking about PayPal, Visa, all making moves into crypto this week. And then Coinbase futures? Coinbase getting some futures?

Starting point is 00:01:49 What does this mean? How is this changing Coinbase's international strategy if they are allowed to roll their own futures here at home? All of this is coming up as we get into this episode. So make sure to like, subscribe, rate and review, wherever you get your podcast so we can get the good gospel of crypto to the top of these iTunes charts or Spotify charts or YouTube, wherever there's an algorithm. Give those to the five-star reviews so we can push it up to the top. Guys, before we get in, want to tell you about our friends and sponsors over at SAFE.

Starting point is 00:02:15 They have a message for you. Safe, of course, is the wallet that everyone in crypto uses. That's one that I certainly recommend. David, what are they rolling out? Yeah, so SAFE is proposing their modular open-source safe core protocol as the standard way to move forward for the wallet transition to smart contract wallets. If you all ever caught my talk at DevCon, there's just universal consensus in the world of Wallace

Starting point is 00:02:37 and the world of Ethereum that we are going to all have smart contract wallets by default. But that is not the way things currently are. That is the future that we are trying to get there. Safe, like I said, is proposing their Safe Core Protocol as the standard. And so they want you to check it out. It features an unopinionated core standard as vendor agnostic, high component reuse and robust security.

Starting point is 00:02:59 this is how we prevent bugs, while also maintaining interoperability and smart account diversity. So there's a link in the show notes to get started with SafeCore. You are a dev. They also have a safe con coming up in Berlin, Germany.

Starting point is 00:03:12 So if you are in around Germany or around the European area, they are doing a safe con in September. So check out the link in the show notes to get started with that. Con, as in conference, by the way, all right? Not con as in like a con job.

Starting point is 00:03:26 Oh, God. I hate that we have to specify this. What is that? This industry. This is crypto, David. Let me introduce you. There have been some cons in crypto. Yes, they're in this agenda, actually.

Starting point is 00:03:38 Multiple. We have multiple cons in this agenda. One of them is living down the street from you, as we just said. And one of them is a conference. But first, markets want to thank Cracken for showing us the market charts today. And I got to ask you, David, what's cracking with Bitcoin price? I'm never going to do. There were two in a row on this one.

Starting point is 00:03:55 29,500 is where we started. We are currently experiencing some. Red candles coming in below 28,000. Are we below 28,000 right now? This is a moment where I'm going to have to ask the Bankless Nation to please pull out your price checker app to check out the prices because they're probably outdated. 27,700. Wow.

Starting point is 00:04:12 These numbers have updated in the last like five seconds. We are currently dumping down below 5% negative 5%. Look at this red candle. Why? Why we dump it on the red candle? I don't know. By sellers and buyers. All right.

Starting point is 00:04:26 Well, at least it's not flat. It hasn't been for the past three, four weeks. Yeah. Ether, doing the same thing. This looks like an equivalent chart. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Ether, when I put these numbers in, it was at 1740. We are now at 1730. So we are down 6%. 6%. All right. You might have to find out afterwards. Also, the ratio down. Ration is doing normal. No, it's flat. Okay. Pretty flat. Total crypto market cap. We're still above a trillion. 1.16 trillion. Tell us about layer 2 beat, though, okay? So this is the total value locked. Tell me this number's going up at least. number is going up. We are a $10.1 billion TVL on layer two with the activity. The activity passed

Starting point is 00:05:06 5x-Eath layer one. So combined Ethereum throughput on this layer two is if you want to hit that activity tab right. It is now 5x. Oh, we're down to 4.92. It was five earlier. We breached five for the first time. We are now at 4.92. Although I will-X of what? Of Ethereum. Remind us. So ratios of Ethereum's throughput to the Ethereum layer one. So layer twos are doing five Ethereums collectively versus the Ethereum layer one. Base is now included, I believe, in all of this TVL and activity, which we'll talk about in a little bit how the base launch has gone so far. But before we get there, I want to talk about the trad markets for a second. Oh, boy.

Starting point is 00:05:46 This is the thing that caught my interest this week. This is the Atlanta Fed. And you know, when I say Atlanta Fed, the Fed is all these different, I'm going to call them chapters. They're not chapters, but geographic banks. Atlanta Fed apparently has a model which predicts GDP for the U.S. And their models currently predicting 5.8% GDP growth in Q3. It seems wildly optimistic. And yet...

Starting point is 00:06:14 5.0. That's annualized over the year, right? 5.8% annualized over the year, but just in Q3. Right. Okay. 5.8% is gargantuan. That's a big quarter. That is a huge quarter.

Starting point is 00:06:28 You have to take this with a grain of salt because it's a prediction model, and as more data comes in, it will probably go down, all right? But a lot of the market indicators of GDP have been up, including industrial production print, which showed factory output jumped 1% in July. So it looks like GDP ain't too bad. I don't know if you ever look at this chart, David, but let me show you. This is on the St. Louis Fed. They keep track of a bunch of the GDP numbers here.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Yeah, this is GDP over time. Look at that. So you see COVID, down 30% on a coin in Q2, 2020. That was a bad quarter. Negative 32% G2. We popped up, but we did pop up to positive in Q3, 2020, positive from the previous.

Starting point is 00:07:17 Anyway, this is where we are right now. Maybe I'll circle in on, you know. Let's zoom in. Yeah, that is up into the right chart. Right? Wow. No. So I guess the end of the story is GDP is not looking so bad these days. Yeah, that is insane, actually. Like that... Are you surprised by this? This is why I put it in here because I was like, oh, I haven't been looking at GDP for a while because, you know, other numbers are more interesting. But these numbers are better than I thought they'd be. Yes. This is, I will call this a flash as in this is a single point of measurement. It really matters with if this thing continues. This is a, this is a, this is a, this is a, one of those charts where it's actually the area under the curve that is the big thing rather than

Starting point is 00:08:01 the single point of reference. And so the longer that this is sustained, the better it gets. But man, coming in at 5.8 percent, that is crazy. Where is all this GDP? Where are we getting this GDP from? What couch question did we look under? Yeah, that's probably a subject for an entire podcast. But what's interesting is I don't hear the R word recession being said very often these days. And a year ago, that was kind of a different story. All right. Well, let's actually talk about what BASE is doing because no recession in layer two's either. And BASE launched recently.

Starting point is 00:08:35 Was that last week? The week? Yep, that was last week. Okay. Last week. How's it going? What are we looking at? I would say, I said on Twitter, this is one of the takes I gave, is that this was

Starting point is 00:08:45 the best protocol launch that crypto has ever seen. Wow. Zero hiccups. Bridging was seamless. Like, no one has had any problem. UI, UX of interacting with base is great. You know, transaction fees are super cheap because it's a layer too, as we know. Failed transactions, no one's talking about any failed transactions anywhere.

Starting point is 00:09:02 And there's a ton of apps. There's a ton of things to do. The first time I went on base, I ended up minting like five NFTs until I have two minutes. Really? And I redeemed one for a hat, which is sitting on my wall over there. It says on chain. A utility. A utility.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Yeah, I minted an NFT. And then I went to like a stripe checkout page. And then it connected my wallet. and had the NFT in it, and the $30 hat dropped to zero, because that's what the NFT does. And then I bought the hat, and all within like five minutes. It was great. And you actually received the hat. It was not a con. You want me to go show you. It's great. Yeah. Yeah, go grab me. I'll go grab it. And after I spit off some facts. TVL, almost over $230 million. So closing in on one quarter of a billion dollars.

Starting point is 00:09:45 That's big. Overeaging almost nine transactions a second over 24 hours, which makes this the second most popular layer two behind is the, K Sync era, which has got 10.2 transactions per second, although I bet you the ratio between, like, users doing things that I was doing, like, and then bots on ZK Sync is probably different. Transaction volume all-time high on August 10th with a record of, you ready for this? 136,000 active wallets on the network. What? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:15 42 of them were all first-time-based users. 42,000, not 42, yeah. Yeah, so a whole total number of 142,000 unique wallets Already bridged assets over to base and claimed the bridge to base NFT This is going to be one of those NFTs I don't know if you can pull that up if you have that pulled up the bridge to base NFT Maybe you want to search Google for it Bridge to base NFT

Starting point is 00:10:36 Yeah this is going to be one of those NFTs where like you're going to show your grandkids Like one back in the day I used to I used a bridge to get on to base and I minted the NFT and it's one of yeah one of these things yeah uh-huh You can see, how do I get this? Press the mint button, bro. Like with a wallet that I've bridged with? Yes, exactly. Yeah, MetaMask, coin-based wallet.

Starting point is 00:10:58 Phantom probably works. I got to go find a wallet that I've bridged with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. Or you can bridge. It takes two, like, two seconds. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So some great success out of base.

Starting point is 00:11:06 I'll go with my hat. I can't bridge live on the episode, David. All right, he's getting his hat. One second. On chain hat. Hey, there it is. Yeah, oh, wait. Zoom in.

Starting point is 00:11:16 There it is. It just says on chain. It just says on chain? Yeah. I like that. On chain hat. That's a great hat. There were other colors.

Starting point is 00:11:23 There was like white on white. There was white on black, but I got the red on black because it matches my bankless hat. Yeah, that looks very bankless of you. Of course, the best analysis comes from poop man. One of my favorite Twitter accounts right now. Poop Man, defy. Bro, there are senators that listen to the show, man. Yeah, I know.

Starting point is 00:11:42 They need to respect poop man. They need to know too, David. Poop Man, Dify. Thank you for the day. What is poop man telling us about? analysis. It is. It's pretty good. Put in a great tweet about base. Okay, so base has been earning 3x more revenue than ARB or optimism, arbitralia or optimism, while only incurring 50% of batch submiter cost compared to the others. Interesting. So like this is the cost of actually being

Starting point is 00:12:03 a roll-up. You submit the batches down to the layer one. Comparing the daily fee margins from transaction fees between optimism, arbitral, and base. Base revenues in the last week, I think, 1.25 million. Optimism revenue 424,000. Optimism. I did say Arbitrum, but I stopped because I thought I didn't. Arbitrum revenue, 424,000. Optimism revenue, 404,000. What makes this more interesting is that the cost of batch submitters on base is almost the, is the cheapest among all of these. So a submitter cost for base, 522,000. An arbitram submitter cost, 950,000, and optimism submitter cost, 1 million. What do you mean submitter costs? Is how much you pay Ethereum? Yes. Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:12:47 Right. And so, like, this is one of the costs of the protocol. I remember. So the profit, if you want to calculate the profit, you take those fees, the $1.25 million of base revenue and you subtract largely the base submitter costs, 522K. We're still left with, what, $700k in profit? Mm-hmm. That's right. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Hey. And like this is the Coinbase. Coinbase gets 85% and then the OP collective gets. 15%. Is Wall Street noticing this? No, probably not. Probably not. Um, so he continues. If this data is correct, base is likely the most cost effective and profitable layer two right now. Thanks, this is probably from the fame from Coinbase. Base has been able to leverage this network effects and popularity to drive immense on-chain activities and volume, potentially create a positive feedback loop. Increase volume attracts more users, more users in turn build more projects on base and, you know,

Starting point is 00:13:40 rinse and repeat. And then also, like, we have this new friends tech phenomenon, which I bet you is one of a nice, healthy chunk of the volume on base right now. We'll talk about that a little bit later in this show. Base is going to be a growing part of the content at permissionless. I think I said this last week, but me, Ben Jones from Optimism, Jesse from Base, are on a panel at Permissionless, where we're going to talk about some of these details, all about the base layer two in its relationship to the Optimism Collective. And since we're talking about permissionless. This is a PSA for all bankless citizens out there. We are throwing a party. You're a citizen? Yeah. I actually pay for our product. Do you pay for our product? Do you,

Starting point is 00:14:20 wait, do you pay for it with a company credit card or a personal credit card? I think a personal credit card because I've never deactivated. You're not a citizen? No, I am. But I pay with the company credit card. All right. Anyway, if you are a bankless citizen, we are throwing a party. How about big of a party, 500 people. Who's coming? You, if you're going to permissionless and you're a bankless citizen, you are invited. And literally everyone who's at permissionalist, who's also been on the podcast before, so like all of the speakers that we invited, and basically all of our friends and people that we like to hang out within the space. And also all the bankless citizens.

Starting point is 00:14:58 So they're in the Discord, going to the Discord say, and there will eventually be a link that we're going to hand around to our citizens. And so make sure to come. It's going to be very, very fun. Ryan will actually be there. Is that a bar? So Ryan and I will have drinks. I'm gonna sit right there. Look at that bar. That's your spot.

Starting point is 00:15:18 That's your spot? Yeah, that's my spot. I'm gonna say one thing. Well, yeah. I mean, we won't talk to each other the whole night, right? We don't hang out in real life. One thing I should say is, okay, there's a place for 500, right? We might not be able to give everyone who is a bankless citizen ticket, hopefully.

Starting point is 00:15:38 I don't know how many bankless citizens are showing up to permission. It's while availability lasts. Yes. As soon as we have 500, we, you know, fire code says we can't have more. Fire code. Nation state regulations are preventing us from gathering more than 500 people. Yeah, they're oppressing the bankless nation. But we're not there yet.

Starting point is 00:15:56 So stay tuned for that link if you're a bankless citizen. It's going to be fun. What we got coming up next, David? Coming up next, we're going to talk about friend tech, the phenomenon that has swept through crypto Twitter passing fat or new paradigm. If it is a passing fad, is there still lessons to be learned? We will talk about this. SBF, my new neighbor.

Starting point is 00:16:12 We're going to talk about how that happened. And then we are also, we, bankless, are dropping an app to help you hunt some air drops. So all this is coming up and more. But for a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Cracken, the actual organization who's going to give us all free drinks at the party. And then Cracken will also be at the party. Thank you, Cracken for all the free drinks. And also sponsoring the Bankless Nation.

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Starting point is 00:17:32 exchange with your debit card with extremely low fiat on ramp fees and you can seamlessly swap on main net, polygon, arbitram, and optimism. On the Uniswap mobile wallet, you can store and display your beautiful NFTs and you can also explore Web3 with the in-app search features, market leaderboards, and price charts, or use Wallet Connect to connect to any Web3 application. So you can now go directly to Defy with the Uniswop mobile wallet, safe, simple custody from the most trusted team in Defi. Download the Uniswap wallet today on iOS. There is a link in the show notes. crypto last week. It's a new application on base. Okay, explain this one to me. What is friend. Dot Tech? And why is, why is everyone flocking to this app? Yeah, it is an app built on base.

Starting point is 00:18:14 But, okay, so it's an app. I think it's for iOS only because it's not, it's not an iOS app. But okay, I see what you're saying. Yes. Okay. It only works on iOS devices, right? Yes. Okay. So they, why are we like hung up on this one little point? Because of the iOS App Store charges is 30% fees to all apps. So Friends. Tech did this workaround where Safari on the native Apple browser that no one uses has this ability, this native ability in your iPhone to actually take a website and then turn it into a little widget square, just like a normal app, but it's not an app. An icon, it's just a direct to a specific website. And so using that, it turns and it behaves like an app. It's kind of clunky, but it's the workaround. So

Starting point is 00:19:02 so that they don't have to pay the Apple store. They don't have to go through the iOS. Permission. It's just like the internet used to be, David. Remember, you could just spin up an app and everyone who typed in the URL could access it. We didn't have to go through gatekeepers. We didn't have to pay any app fees.

Starting point is 00:19:16 It's like that. And it's a little bit harder, right? If you're used to kind of the- It's kind of the-clunky. It's one of the first of its kind. But it's doable. The first time I actually used this was actually turn chat GPT into an app

Starting point is 00:19:27 before they actually release an app. So it was a nice little shortcut, right? but this is actually a core part of how this stack is built. Then you sign in using a code. It's like they're doing their gated launch to help drum up excitement about it. So I got a code, submitted it, opened up friends. And I'm given a base wallet and a brand new Ethereum wallet that is non-custodial. No one, that is my wallet because it's built into my phone because it's saved in the little app thing.

Starting point is 00:19:54 So I have my own wallet. I link my Twitter account. And so I link my Twitter account to this wallet. and all of a sudden I have my friend's profile, and then people start buying shares of me. Why are people buying shares of me? Yeah, why? I don't know, because I'm just such a valuable, I'm just a valuable friend to own shares about. Because they want to sell you?

Starting point is 00:20:13 They want to make money on you, David? Well, they think that other people are also going to buy shares of me. And so there's like a leaderboard for this. One step two, you actually have to bridge some ether. Yes. I bridge over like 0.1 ether to get myself started here. Okay. It's like, you know, $10 or something.

Starting point is 00:20:30 You can go a very low amount to kind of bootstrap this thing. Okay, so why, yeah, why is everyone so excited about this? Is this just a Ponzi game for influencers? Is this the only fans of crypto pros? I think it is a Ponzi game for influencers. Part of the incentive is that you, your account, you get 5% of all share trading fees. And then the friends app creators, the app, the company, also gets 5%. And then, so when you buy a share, 90, you, 10% of the value of the share, 5% goes to the profile, the influencer or, you know, your friend.

Starting point is 00:21:09 And then 5% goes to the company. And then you retain the share. And so like me, as somebody with a following, I'd be like, oh, go buy my shares. And then I get trading fees. And so I have accumulated 1.4 ether from trading fees. What? Yes. So to date.

Starting point is 00:21:25 And there are, let me see. There are, how many people have bought my shares? How many people, I'm checking it. I'm checking. I used to be a shareholder. You did. You dumped me. And I sold, I, I have 45 holders. I have 45 holders.

Starting point is 00:21:39 And then I can't, I don't know the supply, but like, I, I own five shares of myself, because I believe in myself. Zero X bread guy. So you're pumping your own bags, huh? I'm allowed. I'm allowed to do this. It's transparent, right? Zero X bread guy also owns five shares of me.

Starting point is 00:21:55 Goon machine owns four shares. Tangle account accountant owns two shares. Altcoin Daily I.O. Owns two shares. Hiro Kennelly from the bankless Dow. He owns two shares of me. And my current shares are at all time highs. So all my followers, right, are in profit. What is it take to get a share of David on friend.com? One share of David currently costs 0.26 ether. Point 26 ether. Are you kidding me? That's hundreds of dollars. How much is that? That is like $400. Well, getting less. getting less now.

Starting point is 00:22:27 You can sell your share too, right? And so also, I have committed to distributing all of my trading fees that I accumulate in seven days starting on Sunday to one of my shareholders. So on this, on this Sunday, I'm just going full Ponzi. On this Sunday, it's a prize. Like I said, I have accumulated 1.41 ether in trading fees. That will continue to go up. So every time somebody buys one of my shares, and especially as my shares get more expensive, the point the five percent of the trading fees that goes into my trading fees earned also goes up so

Starting point is 00:23:01 uh point two five ether to buy one of my shares five percent of that goes in the trading fees and i am raffling that off to one of my shareholders on sunday so go buy my shares wow that that that is um worth a disclosure i think david david is benefiting from all of the shares and he is making a commitment i hey you better not refund it to yourself because you're a shareholder you know I'm allowed. I own five shares. If I win, then I get my own trading fees. I will do this in a public trustless way. Trustless. Trust me, bro. But yeah, that's the plan. What's funny about, so one question I have for you about the share price. So it's basically shares go up the more demand there is. Correct. It's just like an algorithm curve. Yeah. So as somebody, as there's a unit swap curve. Yeah. Yeah. It's the next time's Y equals K kind of thing. So as more people buy my shares, they get more pricey. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:53 I think I'm top 20. I think I'm top 20. Dang, David. I'm just ultra show right now. Let's talk about... I'm like top 20, yeah. Let's talk about what this is doing in general. So friend.com on basis generated 650,000 for users.

Starting point is 00:24:11 For users, they've gone to people like David. After launching a beta a week ago, users received 5% shares you talked about. With over 250,000 transactions and 23,000 unique users, users, user counts are higher than Ethereum's largest NFT platforms combined. This is a tweet from a Misari analyst giving us this info. So those are some of the stats that make this happen. Okay, so I've got this app open. It's called friendmex.com. What in the world am I looking at right now? Friendmex is a reference to Bitmex, which is this old derivatives exchange that Arthur Hayes used to run before they got in trouble with the law. But this is just like the dashboard of

Starting point is 00:24:52 friends if you are a trader. So like bots and people who are making bets on other people are making money here. So like some people have made a lot of money. I think I saw somebody, people like profiting 30. If you go over to the Discover on the far right side and scroll down about 20-ish people, you'll find me again on the leaderboard because I'm coming up, you know, using my trading fees to pump up my position. You have to keep scrolling data. There you go. There you go. I trust will say it. You just scrolled right past it. Oh, there you go. My profile picture is broken. Yeah, yeah. Mark, I have a market cap of 18.8 ether. That is the value of David Hoffman, apparently, 18 ether.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Yeah, you know, I think you personally, I think you're worth more, but I'm also not going to be buying a share anytime soon, but maybe I should. Maybe I should. Maybe you should, yeah. What's cool about this is, and people are maybe asking why we're talking about this so much, this is this friend Mac's website was just spun up. Because all of this data is public, all of this data is open, and you can create an exchange. on top of base, on top of friend. dot tech. So friend. dot tech is powered by smart contracts

Starting point is 00:25:59 completely in the background. All of it is open source. Can you go click my profile so you can see my chart? See my chart of my net worth right there. I just click this. Yeah, they can click it.

Starting point is 00:26:14 Look at that chart. Oh, that's bullish. Oh, that's so bullish. That's a bullish chart. That's a buy. And you can connect your wallet right from this app and trade. Although, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:24 It's maybe not audited. Be careful where you connect your wallet here, folks. We're not necessarily endorsing this. You know why I'm excited about this is, you know, not just to buy different influencers like David or Kobe or anything else. I feel like this is very much a proof of concept for a next thing that we've unlocked, right? You know, last week we were talking about Unipig and how that felt like a paradigm shift. We just unlocked layer two for the first time. This to me feels kind of like this.

Starting point is 00:26:54 This to me almost feels a little bit like CryptoKitties did. At, you know, when was that? 2017, 2018. We were like, oh, NFTs. Like, we just unlocked some new primitive. This Twitter poster agrees with me, Nicholas. FriendTech, friend.tech is not a revolution in social tokens. It's the wow moment about a brand new stack.

Starting point is 00:27:16 PWA progressive web app. That's the Safari app we were talking about. Web2 login. Oh, that's a great point. you could just log in with what your Apple ID, your Google ID. Embedded self-custodial wallet, so it's still bankless. Layer 2 transaction fees, so you're not paying like dollars for transactions to do this. iOS notifications.

Starting point is 00:27:38 It's all of those things combined. And to me, it feels like a proof of concept. I mean, likely this thing is just, you know, it's going to pump and dump. It is natively a Ponzi scheme. I guess there is some utility in here in that if somebody purchases a share of someone else, then they unlock this chat room, right? Yeah, we totally forgot the main point of this. Yeah, okay.

Starting point is 00:27:57 Well, let's talk about that. Owning a share unlocks a chat room. And so, like, why are people buying my shares? I'm actually in there, like, answering questions that people have directly. So, like, providing value to my shareholders, right? Like, there's a room where you can direct access to the influencer that you've, you know, influencer. Whoever you own a share for, you can go talk to them directly. And if, like, they don't respond or they give you shitty answers, you can dump them and move on to the next one until you find a room that provides value to you.

Starting point is 00:28:23 you. It's cool. I think it's very cool. And I will say it's the most fun I've had in crypto in a while. And it felt it felt very much like crypto-cuitous. Are you still active in there? I, look, I bought it and dumped your share. So I also, I did. I did. You know, we both sold each. I, I activated on Friday and Saturday and I was like, oh, this is cool. I see where this is going. I'm going. I'm going to let other people like do these things. But, you know, maybe, maybe, look, maybe Ryan is underpriced relative to David on friend.com. You know, I'm just saying that's a possibility. It is a possibility. Yeah. So you're taking a bet that Ryan's going to start becoming active rather than the guy who's already active. And who's also giving away 1.4 ether to

Starting point is 00:29:06 his shareholders. What are you doing? You don't even have 1.4 ether to give away. Look at this. See, these are the types of games that like it's basically every creator is I suppose incented in like to do something. And and I think that the chat room is the first layer of utility, but other layers of utility can be added. Like what, imagine if this was scaled out to like, Kobe was teasing his followers with feet picks. Okay. Right. Like, um, imagine, you know, okay, so I was right. It's, it's only fans for crypto bros. So, but what happens if you scale this out beyond kind of like the, the, um, the crypto crowd and you scale this out to like, I don't know, music artists. I mean, how much would people pay for like Taylor Swift chat room? Like a share of that. So much. You could see how this scales.

Starting point is 00:29:52 and how the social games, like, it's just social, clout, economic games, meets crypto. And it just, something about this for me just kind of works or unlock something that's going to be absolutely big. And again, I don't know that friend.com will capture all of this, but somebody's going to. We're in a new frontier here. I think really the biggest pressure that I see on this on the future is the progressive web app. This is the crypto-native application that just routes around the 30% tax of Apple. And if this becomes standard, if like a lot of people start, you know, providing services through progressive web apps that are crypto. And so like anyone that wants to do their thing, but they can't because of Apple, they just start doing this progressive web app instead.

Starting point is 00:30:35 It's a bargaining chip against Apple because we just routed around their gate. Guys, it's the open in red, right? Because if you, if you tried to do this on the app store, they'd want 30% transaction fee for all of this. Like, it wouldn't work. Like, their systems are not set up to handle crypto economics in this way. And so it's a big bargaining ship that the crypto industry has to force Apple's hands to either lower their fee or just like crypto in or do something. Or we'll just, you know, progressive web app our way around their gate. Guys, I'm only half joking when I'm about to say this.

Starting point is 00:31:08 Are Ponzi games are going to change the world? They're going to change the Internet. Like, for real, this is going to lead to a more open Internet. Yeah, Ponzi Games versus Ponzi schemes. Ponzi schemes are where somebody is a rugpillar. Or Ponzi games is where it's kind of just a collective game of chicken that we all agree to play. Well, I mean, some of these influencers on there might be red pollers you don't know. I mean, some of them might be.

Starting point is 00:31:28 They could walk among us. They could walk among us right now. What do we got next? Okay, the SEC versus Coinbase. I feel like this is the Avengers assembling here, David, because a set of lawyers filed what's called an amicus brief saying the SEC should leave Coinbase alone, basically, should drop the care. case. Okay. And what is an ambicus brief, you might ask? You have that question, David? Do you know what an amicus brief is? It sounds like some lawyer speak. Okay. I think it basically is lawyer speak. It's basically where a bunch of outside lawyers who have some level of prestige,

Starting point is 00:32:05 some level of legitimacy, write their opinion on a case, either while the case is in progress or, you know, before it goes. Why do they do this? You know, they just want to communicate their position. And so depending on the level of legitimacy, I think the court system, like the court system, the legal system will kind of look on this, not as a piece of evidence necessarily, but as a, you know, an element of the argument here. And so this is a bunch of lawyers who've stood up and said, hey, the SEC is out of line here. So the law professors are from Yale, University of Chicago, UCLA, Boston University. and they go through and they school the SEC on the history and meaning of an investment contract, both during and after the passage of the original Federal Securities Act in 1933, the act that gives the SEC their power.

Starting point is 00:32:57 And what are their conclusions? Their conclusions are basically that the SEC's argument that crypto tokens are trading on secondary markets, our investment contracts, is wrong. That's what their conclusion is. I think the significance of this is not just that. this opinion is being expressed, the crypto industry has been trying to express this opinion for years now. The significance of this is that it is a band of legal minds who are putting forth a legal document, which is now in the public space for anyone and all to use in any sort of

Starting point is 00:33:30 future legal proceedings that they might need to use it. So I think like really it's like these Avengers coming together to produce this future document that allows for any other lawyer to leverage the arguments if they ever find themselves in the positions of needing to be leverage. And so it's ammo. It's collective ammo for us as an industry to shoot. Is that fair? I think that's totally fair. Yeah. And so this is A16 Z crypto and paradigm also filing an amicus brief that is as similar. And their argument is also similar. The SEC's approach is a significant and problematic expansion of its regulatory authority and even threatens purchases of tailings of Taylor Swift concerts and Teslas.

Starting point is 00:34:13 Oh, no, Taylor Swift. And probably friends shares, yeah. Yeah, definitely friend shares, David. Senator Lumas, as well, has added to the voice of the lawyers coming out, swinging against the SEC, asking the courts to actually drop the lawsuit entirely. I don't know how often that happens, where a senator, like, chastises a regulator and says, like, the court system should absolutely drop the case. Meanwhile, there was actually some good news on the regulatory front this week.

Starting point is 00:34:41 Yeah, Coinbase announced that the National Futures Association, which is apparently a CFTC-designated SRO, has approved a Coinbase Financials market as a registered futures commission merchant. Coinbase can now offer futures contract in Bitcoin and Ether to eligible customers inside of the United States. Inside of the United States. That's us. That's big, right? Yeah, so Coinbase was recently like six months ago or so. making a big push to be international because they could not do this, because they could not offer competitive products and services that push so much United States capital offshore to things

Starting point is 00:35:16 like finance and FTX. So now they are given the green light to do some of these future stuff inside the United States so that Coinbase could do it. So that's great news. Yeah, CFTC playing nice. The SEC still not playing nice. But, you know, two steps forward, one stop back. And we'll get there eventually. David, speaking of two steps forward, SBF is now your neighbor. What were we teasing in the intro? Where's SBF right now? Yeah, so two steps forward to jail. The federal judge has revoked SBF's bail for attempting to tamper with witnesses, wall, so that he has been moved from house arrest with his parents in Palo Alto, California, to a New York jail awaiting his criminal trial on October 2nd. Wait, because he was tampering with witnesses while he was in

Starting point is 00:36:03 his parents' basement? Yes. Yes. He was attempting to tamper with witnesses and therefore violated the terms of the bail. Turns out if you're on bail, you're not allowed to tamper with witnesses. Okay. Prosecutors, so mental note for... Seems reasonable, but okay.

Starting point is 00:36:17 Prosecutors alleged that SBF repeatedly tried to corruptly influence witness and interfere with a fair trial through attempted public harassment and shaming. Wow. Okay. And so he's in New York. Not only is he in New York. He is in Brooklyn. Really?

Starting point is 00:36:34 Yeah. So a federal judge revokes bail for FTCS founder of Sam Bankman-Fried, and the crypto entrepreneur was sent to a crowded Brooklyn administrative prison known for grueling conditions as he awaits trial in October. The quote from someone who's familiar with the matter says, the existence is pretty bleak of the inside of the jail. Federal prosecutors that have alleged that Bankman-Fried 31 violated bail agreements, of course, communicating with a New York Times reporter about Caroline Ellison.

Starting point is 00:37:02 his former girlfriend, who previously served as CEO of Alameda, of course, and Ellison, Caroline, has pleaded guilty to multiple fraud charges and entered a plea deal to testify against SBF. So we have, you know, ex-girlfriend, ex-boyfriend, you know, in a prisoner's dilemma together. Apparently, SBF released her diary, which he had access to, which is just like, I mean, he's a sleaze ball. So it's not beneath him. But that's why he's back in jail because he's tampering with witnesses. He's like, I put the address of where the jail is in Google Maps and in my apartment. It's like a 30-minute bus ride.

Starting point is 00:37:39 It's not that way. That's so bizarre. But David, I'm not sure if the corruption stops just with SBF. So the DOGA this week released an indictment alleging that SBF was lobbying Congress and high-level government officials. This is pretty big news. You wonder who else was caught up in SBF's trap here? And it sounds like there's a lot of people. on Capitol Hill that may need to provide some answers around this.

Starting point is 00:38:05 Yeah, I don't think this is news to anyone in the crypto industry who's been following the FTC's case, but of course, FTCS and SPF just like spewed out what the DOJ is alleging to be over hundreds of millions of dollars to both Democrats and Republicans. So quote from this article, the defendant's use of customer deposits to conduct a political influence campaign was a part of the wire fraud scheme charged in the original indictment. And as a part of the originally charged money laundering scheme, the defendant also concealed the source of fraudulent proceeds through political straw donations.

Starting point is 00:38:35 So the DOJ is on the case, which is great. We're going to get some more clarity, and we're going to see who turned a blind eye to all that incoming money from FDX. David, this is absolutely crazy, but this actually might make Gary Gensler a witness in this case, okay? Which would mean if that happens. I don't think what is not being charged is that Gary Gensler received money. That's not just to make sure that's crystal clear. It's true. We don't know, but he might be a witness. He could still be compelled to testify.

Starting point is 00:39:05 And that would mean that SPF's lawyers would be able to cross-examine Gensler under oath at a trial. Yeah. Where can I buy tickets? Man, if this is pumping right now, that would just make my day. It would be a complete day, but we're dumping instead. What do we got coming up next, though, David? Twitter fights over fraud proofs. We're going to talk about this controversy and how you should understand it. Also, Gitcoin, partnering with Shell, the oil company has obviously caused some controversy.

Starting point is 00:39:32 We'll talk about both sides of that argument as well. And also, we found Donald Trump's eth address. You'll never guess what he's holding. All this coming up and more. But first, I'm going to talk about some of our fantastic sponsors that make the show possible, especially in Metamask portfolio. If you have not opened up Metamask portfolio, it is your battle station for the multi-chain bull market that is coming.

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Starting point is 00:41:55 OPSAC roll-ups, given that they do not have active fraud proofs. It's honestly one of the most substantial risks to the Ethereum ecosystem today. If the centralized sequencer wants to land invalid output proposals, it can't. In other words, the centralized optimism sequencer can settle a malicious transaction that removes all $3 billion in the bridge to an address of their choosing. There's nothing that anyone can do about it. It's really just a decentralization facade. We need to push these roll-ups to implement fraud proofs yesterday. So that is the, oh my God, this is a really big deal. People should pay attention to this. Take number one. Here's take number two. Well, can I ask though, David? Just to like set the basis. So who doesn't have fraud proofs?

Starting point is 00:42:32 Which chains do and which chains don't? Is this all in layer two beat? Yeah, this is all on layer two beat. Most chains do not have fraud proofs. The arbitrum bold, most roll-ups, yes. The arbitram bold announcement is arbitram gaining decentralized fraud proofs. They still need that to be merged into the protocol. but I mean the Dow's is going to vote yes and it's going to happen. All OP stack roll-ups do not have fraud proofs. Including base, which is maybe why some of this narrative is heating up at that. Right. So the reason, yeah, that's exactly right.

Starting point is 00:43:06 Why is this conversation happening now? Well, I think it's actually just like a normal immune response of the crypto industry. Sometimes stuff like this needs to happen. We are seeing new users and TVL and MineChair go to base, which is a fork of the OP stack, a clone of basically optimism bedrock. And then also optimism bedrock doesn't have fraud proofs because they just haven't implemented it yet. And so now while there was previously some like grace

Starting point is 00:43:33 to give in about layer two teams about their state of fraud proofs or lack thereof, now people are like, okay, these things are main net now. Like it's no... For dates and... Yeah, it's no longer time to be not having fraud proofs. So that was the first take.

Starting point is 00:43:47 The second take is from a Martin Coppelman who's maybe saying this a little bit more punchy. To be very clear, Until they add fraud proofs, all the $3 billion that are in the optimism and base bridges can be taken out at any time. And users can do nothing about that. Not sure under what definition this is called non-custodial. Okay, so these are like the two takes about like, yo, like red fire alarm sounds. We should be very cautious and concerned about this.

Starting point is 00:44:10 There is also the other half of the story. And I think DC Builder said this very well. He said, tired of seeing takes shitting on optimism for not having Canon live. Canon is their version of fraud proofs. there was a lot of fighting on crypto Twitter and so I'm about to read the next sentence and it was not in response to any of the just two takes there was a lot of just like if you're in crypto Twitter you know that shit gets thrown you people should get a life intention seeking is not what is going to get you anywhere yes bedrock was a prerequisite for canon yes canon has been the main

Starting point is 00:44:43 focus of optimism ever since they shipped bedrock almost two months ago yes all the progress is available on gethub for y'all to see stop making long threads about why your roll-up is better when you either have permission fraud proofs live or a ZK system that is as mature as a toddler and with more security service area than the world's oceans. David, the kids are fighting. Okay, and then, okay,

Starting point is 00:45:02 so then A.J. Warner from Arbitrum responded to this tweet, which I thought was very, very useful. And so I'll just read that one as well. I'm obviously very biased here, so take my perspective with a Himalayan-sized grain of salt, but I don't think this criticism

Starting point is 00:45:15 is because they don't have fraud proofs live. Building proofs is hard, decentralizing proofs and making them permissionless is harder. If they think the best roadmap for the project was emphasizing bedrock and making all of its components modular before building the prover, that is a super reasonable roadmap. I'm going to unpack that really quick before continuing. Building bedrock, which is the current implementation of optimism, maintenance, and also base, was a precursor step to implementing fraud proofs. You need the bedrock scaffolding to insert the fraud proofs module into the scaffolding.

Starting point is 00:45:46 They need a bedrock first so they could get to implementing cannon. So I'll continue on with AJ's take. I think the criticism, which in my opinion is completely justified, is the other decision that have also been made alongside that. It stems from my opinion that having some sort of prover with training wheels should be necessary to qualify as a stage zero roll-up. This is how I think things have evolved and represents the frustration of many other roll-up teams.

Starting point is 00:46:09 I don't think any other team or community could have or would consider pulling off the below set of operations. One, if you want to prioritize a roadmap that will take years to build a prover, you don't have to launch a roll-up. The ZK teams didn't, and they lost a significant opportunity for market share and land grab. Two, if you launch, you don't have to launch a token and massive incentives to use the technology before the Prover is built. Three, if you want to incentivize people to use your implementation, you don't have to prioritize building out the OP stack and super chain so that anyone in the world is encouraging to launch their own roll-up. One of the reasons why I think the first bullet

Starting point is 00:46:43 was acceptable by the community was because the optimism team is trustworthy and nobody thinks that they will steal funds, and I 100% share that sentiment, but they have extended that trustworthiness to this stack in which anyone can run it, and the trust assumptions completely fall over. Let me try and distill this. So the OP stack strategy, which I'm a big fan of, is to try and get as many chains as possible. Fork the O.P. Stack, build your own chain. Let's democratize access to building chains. It's one of the cool things about this technology, which is, I think, is a great strategy. Then AJ is articulating here that that is like the order of operations is bad because if you promote doing that before you solve your fraud proofs module,

Starting point is 00:47:21 well, then you're actually promoting just the proliferation of centralized change, which I think is a valid take. Can I interject there? So it's not that this hasn't been done before, right? So it's sort of a market share type of prioritization. I also think you can argue that that bedrock is also necessary first and making that open source and releasing that. But there's definitely an argument that that some of optimism strategy has been a market share type of strategy. We've also seen this before. Polygon launched for years of proof of stake network. And that was a side chain.

Starting point is 00:47:54 And I remember before a lot of, you know, people out, you know, were angry about this. But I also remember that Polygon took market share away from the finance chain, which, to my knowledge has no plan to actually phase into a volidium or a roll-up of any kind, right? And so Polygon went with a market share approach, and they added security and decentralization later. And that seems to be a bit more what optimism is doing in this case. And so some people are griping with the order of operations here. Yes, that's right. And so it's a little bit of like damned if you do, damned if you don't for the optimism roadmap.

Starting point is 00:48:32 Like I said, they needed to ship bedrock so that they could implement fraud proofs. What is bedrock? It is the OP stack. And so they simultaneously have the OP stack as a precursor to implementing fraud proofs. But then once they have the OP stack, then you have, you know, Coinbase, Lyra, Public Goods Network, WorldCoy, Mantle, all forking the OPEC stack because they all want their chains. So it's like, it's kind of just the way that the universe played out. But then I will also say like the immune response from, you know, the broader layer two ecosystem saying, hey, not having fraud proofs is no longer like tenable in this in, you know, halfway through 2023 is also. a valid take. Now, I'm very well connected to the optimism team. I know for a fact that they are all

Starting point is 00:49:15 focused on shipping fraud proofs. That has been the number one focus since shipping bedrock because like I said, bedrock was a precursor to shipping fraud proofs. So we are now in this is like this uncanny valley of post bedrock. Post bedrock but before canon, right? And now this is, this is where we are. And then of course the Solana ecosystem will tell you that fraud proofs are never coming and these Slayer 2s are going to be centralized and they are wrong. It's many of them. But yeah, I agree with that. I think we've we've talked about it sufficiently.

Starting point is 00:49:49 One thing I will do a big plus one on though is AJ's post right here. It's just a nice, rational post. It spells it out. It's interesting, by the way, that it's not tweet sized. You know the old Twitter tweet size of 280 characters or whatever? It's actually taking the time to go through the arguments. And I encourage more conversation like this. So all of this is healthy.

Starting point is 00:50:11 And I do think we all as an industry want those red and yellow parts of the pie on layer two beat to turn green. And yeah, it's good to apply that pressure once in a while. David, more pressure apply. These are things that are breaking out of crypto Twitter, maybe in the bare market. But Gitcoin was on the hot seat as well. So what's the Gitcoin controversy this week? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:33 So kind of an interesting announcement tweet from Gitcoin. They say Gitcoin tweets out. we're happy to share that we've entered a collaboration with Shell to accelerate open source innovation to the energy sector. Shell, the oil company. Yes. Together we're driving sustainable solutions and making a positive impact in the world. Let's dive in.

Starting point is 00:50:51 And then there was a blog post from gitcoin.com. About the Gitcoin plus Shell partnership. Ooh. People don't like Shell. People don't like Shell. For good reason. Have you ever read the book Confessions of an economic hitman friend? No.

Starting point is 00:51:04 That one will destroy your own. about the oil industry? Yeah, it's worse than that. It's just about the way that, like, first world countries make third world countries beholden to them indebtedness forever. It has to do with the intense international monetary fund. It has to do with Shell. It's all bad.

Starting point is 00:51:22 So when you think of Gitcoin as a brand, you think of, like, nice, wholesome things. Public goods. Sustainability. Public goods. Yeah. When you think of Shell, you do not think those things. I think of deforestation and climate change and, like, a, you know, assassinations and corruption.

Starting point is 00:51:40 That's the brand association a lot of people have as well. And that's why this fell pretty flat. This tweet fell pretty flat, I'd say. Let's put it mildly. So I photoshopped in a bunch of just people's takes. Here they all are. Anthony Sizzano, as a longtime fandom user of Gipcoin, I have to say I'm extremely disappointed in their decision to partner with Shell.

Starting point is 00:52:00 Scooby-Truples. I love Gipcoin, but this is greenwashing, not green pilling. F. Shell. Hazu quotes the tweet and says, quote, the end justifies the means said by Gitcoin, 2023. So yeah, just general WTF response from crypto. And then here's Kevin O'Waki, who is no longer at Gitcoin. He is now at his software company Supermodular, which is built on top of the Gitcoin protocol because Gitcoin is a protocol now as a Dow.

Starting point is 00:52:28 And Kevin, Kevin was the founder of Gitcoin. And as you said, yes, Gitcoin itself is both a protocol. and a Dow. And so Kevin is not, you know, associated with those things, except as it kind of an ambassador for the brand. Yeah. So Kevin O'Waki writes out a tweet titled, in all caps, O'Waki, what do you think of the Shell Bitcoin Club, which I'm sure is what he has been asked many, many, many times. The TLD of this, he says, I personally don't care for the Shell brand. I doubt many people will opt in for the optional Shell funding pool, but we'll see it's a free market. I think $500,000 is a pittance, especially if you look at Shell's contribution to climate crisis and the

Starting point is 00:53:04 brand damage to Gitcoin is immense and also greenwashing is just not okay. But then also he goes on and says, but the point of Gitcoin is to be a permissionless protocol, not to actually pick winners and losers. And so he actually, he said it better than I did on a podcast, which we have a clip for it. And so we'll just go ahead and play that clip because I think this is a hot sign about. Public goods are relative to the values of the communities they serve. Some communities are going to want a DEI round. Some are going to think that's woke fucking nonsense.

Starting point is 00:53:31 Some are going to want to fund open source software. Some just don't give a shit about open source. Some people want to fund physical public goods. Some want to fund digital. Some are okay with an oil company, giving them money, and some are not. So basically, it's impossible to serve all of these memetic tribes at the same time. And that's a fundamental tension in what Gitcoin is trying to do if you're trying to build the stack for civilizational scale public goods funding. All of the tribes don't agree on what is a public good.

Starting point is 00:53:55 And this was a really profound realization for me. And it's why 24 months ago we decided to shut down the company that was Gitcoin grant. and turn it into a protocol in a Dow. So basically now at Gitcoin, you have the Dow contributors and you have their politics. You have the PGF Workstream, which is like the public goods funding workstream that did these partnerships. And then you have the products, which are now credibly neutral protocols. And so by design, if you think Gitcoin's too woke because they're funding diversity equity and inclusion or that they're taking blood money from Shell, then you don't have to take the money, but you can still use the protocols.

Starting point is 00:54:31 and anyone can go to manager. Getcoin.co. And set up their own quadratic funding ground for their own values. There you go. That's Kevin. That's a take. Kevin will also be at permissionless

Starting point is 00:54:45 and he will be at the party. So if you want to berate him or ask him about his opinions on other things, he will be there. Please don't parade him. He's trying his best. Look, this is a credibly neutral protocol, folks. I think he's right on there.

Starting point is 00:54:57 Cowswap, to be of credibly neutral protocols, they just released TWOP orders. What is a TWOP order, David? Yeah, TWOP, time-weighted average price. So this is a way to automate your dollar cost averaging in a very short amount of time. That's probably not the best way to say dollar-cost averaging. But take dollar-cost averaging and compress it down to like an hour or day or something really narrow. But this T-wopping is like a strategy that if you have a very big order to spread out your order to match volume over time.

Starting point is 00:55:29 So as more buying picks up, your order will be fulfilled faster and as buying or as volume slows down, your order will be fulfilled slower. This has been harder to introduce into native crypto dexes just because of the logic that is required to make this happen. But CalSwap has done it. And so there's a link in the show notes if you want to try it out. You can do it right from the safe wall. The cool thing about this architecture is it's intense-based architecture, right? So basically rather than commit to a transaction, you commit to a transaction, you commit to. an intent. And that's been a theme that we've been exploring definitely, and all of crypto has been

Starting point is 00:56:04 exploring definitely the summer. So very cool. Visa has always impressed me with how on top of crypto they've been. And this week was no exception to that. They are testing an on-chain payment system for gas with a card. So they're essentially abstracting gas fees away for blockchain payments and allowing you to complete an on-chain transaction just with your Visa card. So the gas is kind of paid by account abstraction in the background. Just really cool to see like the largest payment company in the world innovating on this. I think this is also related to two other headlines from this week. So Metamask has just rolled out a one-click crypto buy button with Apple Pay.

Starting point is 00:56:47 So Apple Pay, Metamask, you can get into Fiat, you can get into crypto directly through your Apple Pay account. Also cool. Ledger and PayPal have also introduced a partnership. So now ledger users will be able to buy crypto automatically via their PayPal account. This whole chain of things, we've got Visa, we've got kind of Apple Pay, and we've got Ledger. These feel very much like 2023 things, bare market things, that we would have no concept of in 2019. Do you remember all the fake partnerships that were going around kind of the ICO landscape where somebody would take a picture of themselves, a skateboard in front of Google?

Starting point is 00:57:25 Yeah, or they'd be, they'd advertise a partnership with a partnership with a, Amazon, and really they're just using AWS servers for some like portion of their user interface. I know that that sounds insane. And that's what 2017 was. Like that happened so many times. Yes. That was a real tactic that many ICOs did. And what's so crazy is now we actually have these large partnerships. This is like going mainstream. I mean, last week, PayPal just rolled out a stable coin. How crazy is that? Ledger and PayPal together. So now you can go directly from PayPal to a bankless wallet and ledger, right? Visa pushing forward not just like,

Starting point is 00:58:00 we have a blockchain strategy. They're looking at account abstraction. It's so cool to see this and makes me very bullish even in the midst of this bear market. Yeah, certainly. And it also just shows that we have enough like UX solutions,

Starting point is 00:58:14 UIUX solutions to make some of this stuff easy. From PayPal to your Ethereum wallet was like, that took 50 steps in 2017. So in South America, Ryan, Argentina has a, apparently, a far right to pro-Bitcoin candidate, Javier Mili, who's won a primary in Argentina. And there's this clip going around the internet about him explaining Bitcoin and Ethereum

Starting point is 00:58:40 to like the news panelists that he is like shoulder to shoulder with. And so all of all the crypto is like, oh my God, people are getting it and also being elected into Argentine offices. Argentina, of course, very, very crypto, one of the most crypto-native countries that exists. It could be number one, to be honest. Why? Why is Argentina so far ahead? High inflation and high internet connectivity and a technically competent population. And so, like, it's one of the most crypto-enabled countries that exist. So it is no surprise that we are getting crypto-politicians working their way through getting elected. So Javier's

Starting point is 00:59:19 coalition known as the La Libertad Avanzah garnered more than 30% of votes in the political contest. I think the big story here is that crypto is continuing to become a global political movement. And I don't know very much about this candidate. It's certainly not an endorsement. I've heard many mixed reviews. In fact, many negative reviews from the Argentine community. And apparently this candidate's track record in crypto has been rocky. He's been embroiled in high-profile crypto Ponzi schemes, one called Konyx, which allegedly

Starting point is 00:59:47 stole $800,000 worth of pesos. So I don't really know very much about this candidate other than the story that crypto is becoming a political movement. And speaking of politics and crypto, David, we this week got to see what Donald Trump holds in his Ethereum wallet. Do you want to know what he's holding? I am so excited. Here it is, right here. We believe this eth address, ending with 2-2-C-E, is Donald Trump's ether address, Ethereum address. This is supported by information from his financial statements filed that I believe probably the court system, August 14th. So this is, This is what he's holding, David.

Starting point is 01:00:26 Rate this portfolio. What do you think of Trump's portfolio? It is just an A-plus portfolio. It actually is. It's great. It's great. Okay. What's in it?

Starting point is 01:00:35 He's got four assets. Ether. He's got 1.5,000 ether worth $2.8 million, coming in at number one. And then he's got 16 Weith, 3.4, Matic, and 12 U.S.DC. So it's 99% ether. There you go. Where did this man get all of this ether?

Starting point is 01:00:54 Why does he have Maddoch? Well, it's because of the Trump NFT sales on Polygon. He needed the Madik for gas, and they were sold in ETH. So he made $2.8 million in Ether. You know, Trump is just making money on his NFT.

Starting point is 01:01:10 The only thing I've ever heard him say explicitly about crypto was this from a Fox business interview in December 2021 about crypto. He said, I've never loved it because I like to have the dollar. You should do this in your Donald Trump backs in. I shouldn't be reading this. I've never loved it because I have always

Starting point is 01:01:28 loved the dollar. Trump told Fox business in the December 2020 interview. It's way better. I was never a big fan, but it's building up bigger and bigger and no one's doing anything about it, but I want our currency called the dollar. I'm terrible like shit out of impressions and for some reason that Donald Trump I'm not completely terrible at. I don't know. It's pretty good. I got to admit, it's pretty good. Ray David's impressions of comments. He's a fiat maxi. Like I, Trump, Trump declares he is a fiat maximum. It may change, though, once he gets bags. I mean, who knows?

Starting point is 01:01:59 All right, moving on, here's a headline that I thoroughly enjoyed out of a coin desk. Fallen hedge fund three errors capital co-founders were fined by Dubai's crypto regulator over their new bankruptcy claims exchange, OpenX. So, do you know how much volume OpenX has done, Ryan? Like how much, they have the, okay, what is OpenX? It is an exchange for bankruptcy claims. Yeah, they would know. coming from, like the ones that Three O's Capital caused.

Starting point is 01:02:26 Like anyone, like Celsius, Theros Capital themselves, FTX, Voyager, any of the bankruptcy that we like reported on for like almost a year straight. OpenX is a exchange, a crypto exchange to trade claims. That these guys co-founded. Yeah. Yeah. Man, they are just loving that we are talking about this right now. And so I'm going to get to the meat of this whole thing.

Starting point is 01:02:49 The whole, the volume on OpenX is coming in at a lot. like a couple thousand dollars. That's it. And so is that why they're being fined? Yes, they are being fined for like not being up to snuff with a Dubai crypto regulator. They are being fined $2.7 million on their exchange that they've had to build from scratch and probably have, you know, a million dollars of investment in and they've made zero money on it. So they are in the hole. Can you imagine investing in this thing though? They actually raised money and investors were willing to give them money for this thing. That, that, that, that, blows my mind. Yeah. Yeah. So they, they're in Dubai because they can't go anywhere else because

Starting point is 01:03:30 if they go anywhere else, they'll get extradited to the United States and then thrown in jail. And now they're in Dubai and they owe $2.7 million that they probably don't have. And by the way, David, you know we're talking about friend.com.com and the progressive web app? The bankless app is also available as a progressive web app. You can open this thing in Safari. You can set it to your homepage and you can actually use it. Did I just blow your mind right now? I didn't know that we had a progressive web app. I thought we just had an app. Well, you have a progressive web app if you just load it in your Safari browser and you added

Starting point is 01:04:01 to your homepage. We had a progressive web app before I even knew that what a progressive web app was. Yep. Yep. We just bypassed Apple. We're doing it. But anyway, we got the AirDrop Hunter that we launched this week. What does this thing do?

Starting point is 01:04:13 Okay. So the AirDrop Hunter, what does it do? It helps you hunt AirDrops. It's in the title. So AirDrops, of course, are this meta in crypto. And that meta shifts. And so we've been. built this product because we were writing this as articles, like, hey, there's this, like,

Starting point is 01:04:28 new crypto app. They don't have a token. They're probably going to have a token. Here's how you use this app. And if you use this app, you're likely get some, some qualify for the token air drop, perhaps, if they ever, we don't know. And so like a part of the bankless newsletter, which is now the bankless website and bankless media org has always been just like, here's how you use this defy app. Like one of the earliest articles in bankless history is Ryan Sean Adams here saying here's how you use uniswap. And then later, anyone who did that article got the Uniswap Airdrop.

Starting point is 01:05:00 And this, and like our articles have progressed. We did, you know, we did D-Y-D-X. We did, like, a lot of layer twos. And so as soon as the Airdrop meta has unfolded, a lot of these guides is like, here's how you use this. Here's how you use this D-Fi app has also simultaneously been like, and then you do these things in order to maximize your chances

Starting point is 01:05:16 for receiving the Airdrop. And so now we've just turned this because of our team, our Chad team. We now have a product team. and also airdrop hunters who are filling out, like, all these different possible protocols that might have anirdrop, how to use them, what to do inside of them to maximize your footprint for receiving an air drop, and then like a step-by-step process to make this easy for people. And so this is part of the progression of this story of bankless, I think, is like how to use

Starting point is 01:05:43 defy apps, how to learn about them, and then how to grow your on-chain footprint to do the thing that Ryan always loves to tell you is like crypto pays you to learn it. he's mouthing it right now. And so now we've just formalized this into a product for the bankless citizen. So if you are already a bankless citizen, A, come to our party at permissionless, and B, while you're waiting for permissionless, go hunt some airdrops. I think we have 31 air drops, and we're going to just add more and more and more. And I also want to add in a bit about the difference between what we are calling air drop hunting versus airdrop farming. So there's this vertical that's growing out there.

Starting point is 01:06:19 Do you ever remember seeing like the Pokemon Go people with like 50 phones out of? at once. There's that... No, but that's crazy. That's a thing. Yeah. Like, there's an industry that is this. They're all based out of Asia generally. But yeah, just like, there's AirDrop Find Farming, which is like these highly capitalized, kind of like just like how proof of work mining is now in the hands of just like extremely well capitalized verticals entities, entities, not individuals. So there's the era of like AirDrop farming is upon us. And that is not what we want to promote. And that is not what we are trying to instill on this product. The product is like first use this application as a real human, as a real person to do things

Starting point is 01:07:00 that we think are in what the protocol wants you to do. Things like locking, like, you know, depositing rather than just transacting, right? Like things that are actually truly valuable to the protocol because our job is to try and guess the meta of what future air drop criteria will be. and that meta is going to respond to the Airdrop Farmers. And so as like all of the bankless citizens, they're humans. Those are human beings. We talk to them in the Discord.

Starting point is 01:07:30 We have Jack guiding like talking about like D-Gen stuff. We have Jack the chief hunter who's like guiding some of these citizens through some of these apps. These are the humans. And so we're trying to give humans a platform to stand out against the bots. And that is the Airdrop Hunter. Yeah. Well said. Hunt and then settle.

Starting point is 01:07:47 Those are two verbs. Learn hunt settle. Yep, learn hunt settle. That's the bankless platform in a nutshell right now. So go check that out. And by the way, if you've never considered becoming a bankless citizen, I think this is a compelling opportunity to do that. So you can check this out. So I think we provide one air drop hunt available for our free members.

Starting point is 01:08:09 And then you get 31 of these if you're a citizen. And we're going to be adding more every week. So I think we've got another batch of a dozen or two dozen coming. and we'll of course keep you updated on this. The one other thing I want to mention is beware of fishing attempts. Okay. So this has been something that I feel like it's been plaguing crypto all summer. Of course, it's always been here, but has really ramped up this summer.

Starting point is 01:08:32 Fishing sophisticatedness? Is that all-time highs? What do we mean by fishing? Okay, that means like you could get an email from someone you think is bankless and is actually not bankless that's telling you to click a button and connect your wallet. and your funds could be drained. Okay? So emails from bankless only come from the at bankless URL.

Starting point is 01:08:55 And if you go to a third party website, make sure it's got the lock, htps, and it's www.bankless.com. And that's the URL. That's from us because there are people out there that are sending spam emails to try to get you to click a button, connect your wallet, and drain your funds. So be careful out there. definitely still the Wild West. And if you need help, you are confused, and you just want some guidance or some friends along the journey, coming to the Discord, we'll help you out. Totally. David,

Starting point is 01:09:28 we got one raised this week, but it's a pretty large one. Bitco raised $100 million. Who is Bitcoin? A hundred million dollars. Why is this significant? Yeah, Bitcoin is a custodian. They're actually the creators, the producers, one of the producers of wrapped Bitcoin, because they are the custodians of the Bitcoin that backs the wrapped Bitcoin. But they're a Bitcoin and crypto custodian. Why are valued at $1.75 billion? I'm pretty sure the custodian play is like eventually like PayPal bought a custodian. Anyone that any bank that wants to do crypto stuff is probably just going to buy a custodian.

Starting point is 01:10:04 And so this is being valued at kind of that. 1.75 billion dollars is nice. A hundred million dollar raise. This is their CREC. Congratulations to Bitcoin. David, what do we got coming up next? Coming up next, we are in the early endings of base, and there are rug pulls and meme coins everywhere.

Starting point is 01:10:20 Is that a problem? We'll talk about that. That's a question from the nation. Also, a hot take, why on-chain revenue is the next meta, and the main thing that you should be paying attention to right now. That is a take of the week from Van Spencer. We also got a take from Ryan that we're going to talk about as well. And, of course, we're going to talk about what we're bullish on,

Starting point is 01:10:34 and of course, the meme of the week. So all of that and more, but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that makes the show possible. Mantle, formerly known as Bit Dow, is the first. Dow-led Web3 ecosystem, all built on top of Mantle's first core product, the Mantle network, a brand-new high-performance Ethereum Layer 2 built using the OP stack, but uses Eigenlayer's data availability solution instead of the expensive Ethereum Layer 1. Not only does this reduce Mantle network's gas fees by 80%, but it also reduces gas-fee volatility,

Starting point is 01:11:02 providing a more stable foundation for Mantle's applications. The Mantle treasury is one of the biggest Dow-owned treasuries, which is seeding an ecosystem of projects from all around the Web-Free space for Mantle. already has sub-communities from around Web3 onboarded, like Game 7 for Web3 Gaming and Buy Bit for TVL and liquidity and on-ramps. So if you want to build on the Mantle Network, Mantle is offering

Starting point is 01:11:23 a grants program that provides milestone-based funding to promising projects that help expand, secure, and decentralize Mantle. If you want to get started working with the first Dow-led layer two ecosystem, check out Mantle at mantel.xy-Z, and follow them on Twitter at X-X Mantle. Arbitrum is accelerating the Web3 landscape with a suite of

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Starting point is 01:12:18 EVM compatible. Faster transaction speeds and significantly lower gas fees. So visit arbitrum. com, where you can join the community, dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets, and start building your first app with Arbitrum. Experience Web3 development the way it was always meant to be. Secure, fast, cheap, and friction-free. We got some questions of the week.

Starting point is 01:12:37 This one from the bankless discord from someone who calls themselves ZK Jew. So the question is, in the early inning, with base, it's been rife with rug pulls, like bald, I guess there was a rug pole called lead. I didn't even know that. Is virtue signaling values really more important than creating a safe environment for onboarding users? And what about

Starting point is 01:12:55 base? All right, so some of the things this comment is saying, some of the things that they're seeing are not entirely wholesome over on the base layer two. What's your reaction to that? I think this is just the meta that unfolds. When we have something new,

Starting point is 01:13:11 you need, and there's just like the shelling point is for all the traders and DGens and just the attention. Everyone understands that the attention is on base. And so if you are a, if you're going to issue a meme coin, you should do it on base. If you're going to rug pull, you got to go there quickly because that's where the attention is. You've got a rug, you got a rug before the attention leaves. And so like, I think I gave this take last week, but just the all the early and easy things to do are bad. And the hard things to do are good. Good things are harder than bad things. And so the first things that you're going to see on any new network are just because the attention's there,

Starting point is 01:13:46 just because it's a shelling point, are like all the value extractive things that are just fundamentally unaligned. And then we build harder things. Like there's a reason why friends did not get on base day one. It took a little bit. I'm sure they were building it prior. But like that's that's kind of my take. Like early network stuff is like the worst of the worst. And then we improve and iterate and it gets better. It's a permissionless network. anyone can deploy so Coinbase cannot moderate or cannot gig keep. This reminds me a lot of the early internet in the 90s, where early critics of the internet just said,

Starting point is 01:14:20 the internet's for gambling and porn and scammers, right, as in the 1990s. Lots of porn on the internet. I mean, and they dismissed it as a result. You can't do serious things on the internet. And that was a massive mistake. But those are the use cases that pop first, certainly. Another question here, this one from Rock 3T. In the debrief of the Lido episode from earlier this week,

Starting point is 01:14:44 you talked about how everything eventually settles to layer zero. That is the social layer. As crypto adoption grows and more people make up layer zero, do you worry about the potential impact on Ethereum values that the dilution of our social layer could have? That's a really interesting question. I think a fantastic question. What's your take?

Starting point is 01:15:02 Yeah, that's a really hard question to answer and not a 90-minute podcast. We should do a podcast. Okay, so as crypto adoption grows, more people make up the layer zero. Do you worry about the potential impact on Ethereum values that the dilution versus the layer can have?

Starting point is 01:15:16 I actually think that as crypto grows, not necessarily does the layer zero also grow? Because the layer zero are like the people on crypto Twitter, the people on the Ethereum Magicians forums, the people in Discord having important conversations about Ethereum. If you are just an average user,

Starting point is 01:15:34 if you're a collector of music NFTs, and you don't really care about the chain or what protocol or whatever you're on. Blockchains are designed to be invisible, and it's actually a KPI that people go and adopt crypto protocols without actually having to join the conversation. We have these conversations because we're nerds,

Starting point is 01:15:54 and we like to talk about these things, and it's important to us, and it's philosophically interesting. That's layer zero. We just need enough of a robust layer zero so that we can check our values and make sure that they are doing the right things as we build these networks. But it's the networks that's supposed to scale these things.

Starting point is 01:16:09 The networks are supposed to scale. Not necessarily the layer zero. The layer zero is a backstop. It just needs to be the last line of defense. And I don't think it needs to be large. It just needs to be precise. Yeah. I guess I would add maybe two things to that.

Starting point is 01:16:22 You know, one is I do think that the OGs for a while will have a disproportionate share of kind of at least, let's say, ETH stake, right? Why? Because they bought it in a lower price. They have more ether at first. So it'll take longer for that to dilute, and I think that's a good thing. But more broadly, I'll say this is a challenge of any social system that we construct. So the founders of the Constitution, American Revolution, you might say, well, will future generations, well, our grandkids, grandkids, will they still care about the values that we're trying to embed in this nation state, right?

Starting point is 01:16:58 and they try to document as many of those values as possible inside of a protocol, essentially, an algorithm. And that's kind of what we're doing with crypto right now. So I think our constitution, our protocols will harden and ossify. And over time, they'll be less malleable to kind of future generations who maybe care less about these values. And maybe these future generations will find new ways to help us live up to the values that we purported as well. I mean, it certainly was the case in America, you know, expanding the voter base of, you know, beyond white males, for instance, to women, to minorities. I think, I have faith, I think, that once we embed these values of decentralization into our crypto systems, that they'll carry forward.

Starting point is 01:17:55 David, takes the week. This one from Van Spencer. What's he saying? Vance, Spencer says, if you don't nail the transition to on-chain, who he used a hyphen, oh, oh, Vance. On-chain revenue generation. On-chain is spelled O-N-C-H-A-N. Okay, Vance. Okay, so if you don't nail the transition to on-chain revenue generation as a centralized

Starting point is 01:18:13 crypto exchange, you will be left in the dust by competition in the coming 12 to 18 months. It takes an entirely different DNA to succeed on-chain versus centralized, different products, people, and culture. Basically, Vance, I think is just saying that, like, yo, the, meta is shifting on chain and you better go there. Interesting. Speaking of on chain meta, I feel like this is a new on chain meta

Starting point is 01:18:35 for this cycle. I said this on Twitter. All Ethereum competitors want to become an L2 now. Ethereum won the thumb war. I sort of tweeted this out to get the response. Not entirely true, of course. There's still alternative layer ones. But you got to admit, this cycle is a lot

Starting point is 01:18:51 different. Last time, you know, in 2018, 2019, you had a whole bunch of alternative layer ones were coming to kill Ethereum and eat Ethereum's lunch. Now I'm seeing far more just become layer two

Starting point is 01:19:05 is become kind of app chains. And so that has been a paradigm shift. What do you think about this? Yeah, your response a little bit your reply to your own tweet. You used to say, okay, not all. There's still Solana, Cosmos in the long tail. Throwing a flag at Cosmos,

Starting point is 01:19:19 cosmos is actually not a chain. It's a network of app chains. And so Ethereum, layer two, role apps could absorb any Cosmos app individually. And I think when D-Y-D-X just capitulates and comes back to be a rollout back on Ethereum,

Starting point is 01:19:34 you will know. You will know that the design philosophy of the theorem later... I don't know. Antonyo is showing... All the way around. He's showing no signs of capitulation. He is all in on Cosmos for D-Y-D-X.

Starting point is 01:19:45 So we'll see. Solana will never. Yeah. Solana is always going to live in Ethereum. I don't think they... Yeah. I don't know that they should. They want to.

Starting point is 01:19:54 I don't know that it's best for the value of soul to token. The layer one of Solana, it's imbued in the social contract of Solana that they must be a layer one. Like all the Soulboys are like, they think that Soul will overtake East one day. You've been much more involved in those conversations than I have.

Starting point is 01:20:13 I've just been observing, David. What do you bullish on this week? Speaking of what I'm bullish on this week, I'm brewing up a piece that I'm going to write. Yes. About like some, the differences between I think Ethereum, and Solana.

Starting point is 01:20:26 Remember my old Pio Crypto podcast? Yeah. It was about the differences between Bitcoin and Ethereum. I think that there are similar level of depth to that conversation between Solana and Ethereum.

Starting point is 01:20:37 And I think it goes way deeper than I think most of both camps expect than they think. So I'm bullish on this article that I'm writing. Is it an article that's going to help us all come together, David, or is it?

Starting point is 01:20:50 No, it's an article that is going to help us all understand. Okay. And obviously we'll have my positions about things. So I'll tease it a little bit. Ethereum and it's layer two's, layer three, layer fours, it's validiums. It's like base roll-ups. It's sovereign roll-ups.

Starting point is 01:21:10 There's like so many different ways to construct a roll-up. Ethereum, like I say, blockchain is supposed to be invisible. Ethereum's supposed to produce enough networks to permeate throughout the entire internet as well. So when you have all of these different flavors of roll-ups, we can get into the cracks of internet because a particular roll-up construction is specific towards a specific use case that allows itself to find itself in the corners of Ethereum. Whether your on-chain data is on Ethereum layer one or it's hosted by eigenlayer DA or it's hosted by a centralized database, the lines between Ethereum and the internet blur because of how roll-ups are constructed.

Starting point is 01:21:46 Then you have the Salana vision, which is a single global shared state. There's a very firm boundary between what is and it is not on Salana. And these are two different archetypes. which have downstream consequences. So this article is unpacking that metaphor. Well, I can't wait to host the debate between you and Kyle Simani on modular versus monolithic. David doesn't want to do this debate. Yeah, well, I'm bullish for your article as well, David.

Starting point is 01:22:16 Thank you. Ryan, what do you bullish on? I have definitely flipped bullish on crypto social media. And I think I've been sort of in a, I'm not sure, this could work type of state. Well, let me tell you where I started. I started with being fairly bearish on Web3 social media. Do you remember the early days we created kind of Ethereum and people were like, now Ethereum is going to become Uber.

Starting point is 01:22:46 Now Ethereum is going to become decentralized Twitter. And it just never seemed to kind of click for me. We made some progress. We did episodes with like Farcaster, for example, and lens. And so cautiously excited about those and bullish on those when I started seeing them. But the question is always, how do we get mass adoption? Friend.com and this experiment, again, I'm not saying it's going to be friend. Dot tech guys.

Starting point is 01:23:12 Okay, don't hear me. This is a POC, okay? This experiment showed me how it can work in the same way that Cryptokitties showed me how NFTs can work. economic social games. That's what they did. And they vampire attacked Twitter's network effect. They just vampired it.

Starting point is 01:23:31 They did do that. How'd they do that? Because I got a message from someone saying, oh, go check this out, right? And I was, you know, someone I trusted. I went and I checked it out. And I connected my Twitter account and ported some of my social graph over to friend.com and spent some time on it.

Starting point is 01:23:50 That is a vamp, an economic, why did I do that? partially because it's kind of cool. And partially because of token incentives, right? I wanted to see how this thing worked. That's why everyone did it. And then you did it to compete in the social game of the leaderboard, right? When you were just talking earlier how like, I'm in top 20, I'm in top 20. That means something to you, right?

Starting point is 01:24:08 And so I now I see the path. Now I see how crypto, social media, maybe it's Messenger apps, maybe it's apps like, you know, friend. Dot can actually do it. And I also see a path around Apple App Store, Android, right? with kind of this web-based safari sort of experience. Again, it was still super clunky. Like half the time when I was using friend.com, the chat didn't work.

Starting point is 01:24:32 It was like broken. It was a pain. That's actually fixed now. They fixed it. Okay. So they fake. That's the thing. It reminds me of,

Starting point is 01:24:39 do you remember early days of Twitter? Okay, I got my Twitter account super early. And early days of Twitter was always like fail whale. You know, the fail whale was this image that they would put on screen when Twitter was overcapacity, couldn't handle the load, right?

Starting point is 01:24:52 to fill with. Like, when things break because of overuse, it's a really freaking good sign. Okay? It means there's demand. That's what you want. Uh, so anyway, that's kind of cool. It's like hackathon quality right now, but it's a proof of concept for things to come. And I have flipped firmly bullish on this category of whatever you might call crypto social, web three social messaging, like, uh, considering me bullish. And I'm super excited about it. And into the meme of the week, We go. This is Joseph DeLong won the meme of the week trophy this week. This is the, this meme format has been going around crypto Twitter.

Starting point is 01:25:29 This is the, it's a joint. It's a picture of a joint. And like the first majority of the joint is, like you have decently cool and good thoughts. And then the last sliver of the joint, you start to get real, real crazy. So this is a, Joseph DeLong is, he used to be in charge of a sushi swap before he moved on. So the first like three quarters of the joint is just X times Y equals K, you know, the un swap AMM curve. And then the last quarter of the joint is, I can fix impermanent loss with options. Which, man, you have to kind of be deep down the crypto rabbit hole to understand this one.

Starting point is 01:26:01 But to unpack this meme, impermanent loss, for some reason, people are L-Ping into uniswap and Sutry swap and all these AMMs, these X times Y equals K-A-MMs. And they're not making money? They're all losing millions of dollars. And no one knows why there's so much liquidity in Uniswap because everyone's losing money. And so everyone is, there's like a meme lately, a rotation. into like, oh, we can fix LP loss by like adding options on top. And like, Joseph is saying it's like you've got to be effing crazy to think that.

Starting point is 01:26:32 That is one of the mysteries of crypto is why people are doing this. Not even Dan Robinson knew when you asked them on that will do some podcasts. It's just crazy to me. Guys, that has been the roll up. Hope you enjoyed it. We're going to end with risks in a minute. But first, we disclose. David and I mentioned optimism.

Starting point is 01:26:48 We mentioned arbitram. I think we said Polygon. We are both investors and our. advisors for optimism. I'm advisor to Polygon. Both David and I hold a little bit of Maddoch tokens. David and I also hold ETH, and it's our time to remind you, we are long-term investors. We are not journalists. We don't do paid content. There's a link to all bankless disclosures in the show notes at all times. And of course, crypto is risky. You could lose what you put in, but we are headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're

Starting point is 01:27:14 glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.

Bankless - ROLLUP: Friend.Tech | SBF to Jail | SEC vs Coinbase

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