Bankless - ROLLUP: Merge Alpha | Optimism Token?! | Ethereum Foundation Report | Coinbase NFT Beta | Beanstalk Exploit

Starting point is 00:00:00 All we know is this space is going up. Crypto, Bitcoin, ETH, they are going up and to the right over the long-term time horizon. Bankless Nation, it is the third week of April. David is in Amsterdam. I'm in the U.S., and we are getting ready to present you with the weekly roll-up. David, how are you doing, man? How's Amsterdam going? Dude, Amsterdam is absolutely majestic.

Starting point is 00:00:25 Something that has complete consensus with everyone here is that Amsterdam is a great city. It's so walkable. It's so pretty. The weather's beautiful. Sun is out, but it's cold and crisp. There's canals. I went on a boat ride yesterday. It was also 420 in Amsterdam yesterday. So a lot of some people got up to some shenanigans. That's like the 420 capital of the world. So you're ready? That's exactly right. Yeah. That's cool, man. So but what were you there for? It was like a crypto conference, right? DevConnect. Oh, yeah. Maybe that's relevant. DevConnect. Yeah. So this is an Ethereum. The E.S. basically what they did, really genius model, is they hired, they rented out the convention center in the middle of the city, and it's now just a co-working space. And so everyone who signed up can just co-work there,

Starting point is 00:01:14 so I've just been hanging out there. And that's all that they did. On theme, with a modular structure, all the EF did was rent out this center space for us to converge upon, and then many, many, many other entities made other, like, short-term, like day-long panels or day-long. long talks or day long events. So there's the shelling point from Kevin O'Walky. I was at Obelfest from Colin Myers.

Starting point is 00:01:38 There was also, what is it, Trust X, where I was on a panel with some gigabrains, Danny Ryan, Preston Van Loon, Dankrad. And so it's just like everyone is appending their own conference, their own day of talks and content. So it's kind of like an unconference, right, where everyone sort of just, you know, creates their own event and brings their piece to the party. So is this like a mini devcon then, would you say? I'd say so.

Starting point is 00:02:05 Yeah. Yeah. It's a something brand new. All of the core Ethereum researchers, like the client researchers, they all got into a room and powwowed. And so, like, actually made some progress. And that is actually the big theme, I would say, of this particular event where, like, people are busy.

Starting point is 00:02:23 Like, people are getting work done. And so, like, it's not like the, it's not like NFT, NYC. or it's not like Eat Denver, which was more of like a festival. Like we're here to build, right? And you can actually see that in some of the nightlife where people are going out to parties at like 10 p.m. But then the parties kind of shut down

Starting point is 00:02:42 between midnight and 1 p.m. because people got stuff to do the next day. Builder culture, badass. That's awesome. Well, we'll talk more about that because I want to hear if you got any updates on like Ethereum research, like when merge, David. Can you be the when merge guy? But of course, I will tell you

Starting point is 00:02:58 what people have been saying about the merge date. Tell us that's all we're asking. That was, I actually met Justin Drake for the first time. And so I got a beer with Justin Drake and he was just like lovely to hang out with. And of course, we talked about the merge. So more on that at the end of the show. Okay, merge alpha. We'll see what Drake thinks about the merge.

Starting point is 00:03:16 Of course, we got some other topics of the week because crypto can't stop, won't stop, sneak peek into the Coinbase NFT platform launch. We have the beta. We have her hands on a copy. I've given it a trial run. I want to hear what you think about it to, David. We'll go through that. Also, North Korea apparently was the attacker of the Ronan side chain, that massive $600 million plus exploit. That was actually North Korea. It's the U.S.

Starting point is 00:03:38 government is saying. So what does that mean? We're now nation state attacked blockchains after a fashion. Also, Arthur Hayes, Bitmec's CEO, founder, thinks we're headed for a bear. I think we had to talk about that in the market section. See if he's right. See what the bear case is for crypto right now. Andre Cronier, also, he's a defy developer, of course. He had some spicy takes this week, David, about regulation in defy. It seems to be the anti-Andre move, and he wants to incorporate some regulation in defies. So we're going to weigh in on that. And there were also some spicy takes about his spicy takes. A lot of people called, called some BS on Andre Cronier's take article, very short article. So that was very hot in the Twitter sphere this week. So we're going to

Starting point is 00:04:22 talk about all of those things. One thing, talking about conferences, talking about DevConnect and a builder conference, another builder conference that you absolutely should attend, must attend, is graph day. This is happening in San Francisco. It's going to be a four-day event, June 2nd through the 5th. Day one is the talks, right? That's where you listen, you learn, you get educated. But the remaining three days of this four-day conference, it's all pure hackathon, which is amazing for builders. So if you are in a builder, If you are a builder, you want to get into the Web3 space. Like the Graph Protocol is basically indexing everything about the Metaverse, everything about crypto.

Starting point is 00:05:00 They are like a data layer for this whole universe, Web3 universe that we have delved into. So it's a fantastic place to meet other builders to actually participate in the hackathon, earn bounties for yourself, and get into the space. Maybe you're looking for a career in the space. This would be the event to attend. Look at these speakers, David. It's stacked. It's stacked. Yeah. Cammy Russo is going to be there. Reese Lindmark, one of my personal heroes is there.

Starting point is 00:05:26 Ava Baylon. Yeah, check out the lineup and the talks, I'm sure, going to be fantastic. And of course, if you are a hacker, they have money for you. That's what a hackathon does. And so if you want to compete for some money and you are a hacker who wants to hack on things, sign up to join the hackathon. Go get your tickets now. If you use the code in the bankless show notes, there is a $50 discount for you as well. All right, speaking of discounts, are we discounted? on Bitcoin and Eath this week. Let's start with the Bitcoin charts as we get to markets. What's Bitcoin looking like?

Starting point is 00:05:57 We are certainly not discounted this week, Ryan. We started the week at 39,700, just below that $40,000 number, which we do not want to be below at. And we are currently above that number at $42,640, up about 7% on the week. Amazing. Look, man. Last week I said I was bullish. I didn't exactly know why other than like a good feeling. Are you claiming victory, Ryan?

Starting point is 00:06:20 I'm not. Look, man. Yeah, I'm claiming victory. I was right from last week to this week. I will never claim when I'm wrong. But when I'm right, I'm happy to claim that, David. I'm short-term price action. But seriously, guys, don't listen to me on anything short-term price-related.

Starting point is 00:06:34 All we know is this space is going up. Crypto, Bitcoin, ETH, they are going up into the right over the long-term time horizon. Speaking of up-in-to-the-right, Ryan, Ether started last week at $3,000. It hit a low of $2,900. We do not like that $2,900 number. We want to be above that $3,000 number. Of which we are currently clocking in at $3,150, overall, up 4.5% on the week. So Bitcoin takes the week for this week.

Starting point is 00:06:59 Is Bitcoin's win this week? Look, Bitcoin outperformed ETH this week. It hasn't done that for a while. And that reflects in the ETH-Bitcoin ratio. That's got to be down this week. Yeah, down about a percent and a half down to .074. Down a little bit. Down a little bit.

Starting point is 00:07:14 Are people getting Bitcoin bullish off of Bitcoin Miami, do you think? Or why do you think this happens? We just can't read too much into this data. Yeah, one part noise. Let's not read into it too much. But also one part, if we are bullish, like it is traditional to let Bitcoin go first. As is tradition. After you.

Starting point is 00:07:33 After you, Bitcoin. Let's take a look at the total crypto market cap and compare Bitcoin and Eith to that. So it looks like we are up on the week for total crypto market cap, but not by a ton. What's that up on the week? Up 5%. brother. 1.96 trillion last week to 2.07 trillion this week. But Bitcoin outperformed.

Starting point is 00:07:55 Total crypto market. Yeah. Which it hasn't done that in a while. Old man, Bitcoin. Yeah. Outperformed the market by like 3%. And ether underperform the market by 0.5%. Oh, I'm proud of you, Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:08:06 Well done. Yeah. That's right. We'll see. We'll track it next week. I make no more predictions. I'm just, you know, but one thing to watch, I think, in the backdrop of this crab market,

Starting point is 00:08:16 whether are we in bull territory, are we in bare territory, we're kind of somewhere in between is the DXY, which is the dollar index. And the dollar's been breaking out, man. So this is kind of weird. It's like when we say breaking out, it's appreciating relative to other fiat coins, crypto coins. Dollar strength. Yes, dollar strength relative to other fiat, not not relative to crypto, of course. And it's up. Like look at this chart, man. It's up to like, above any level since COVID. And people are like wondering maybe why does the dollar go up

Starting point is 00:08:54 when we are being faced with 8.5% inflation. Just like the dollar went up in value in the early days of COVID, if you recall. And I think the reason for this largely is the dollar is still a flight to safety asset. And people aren't certain. They don't know what the Fed is going to do. They don't know how that's going to affect other asset class.

Starting point is 00:09:15 And so what do they do temporarily? They retreat into the dollar for a while, wait for other assets to fall, and then redeploy their dollars into those assets. It's kind of like what, you know, traders do. Sometimes you and I might do this for rebalancing. We might rebalance back into stable coins out of crypto for a period of time, wait things out and then buy lower. What are your thoughts on this? Well, okay, so the general correlation is that as the DXY, as the Dixie, they call it, goes up. Crypto is correlated, inversely correlated. So crypto goes down. Crypto didn't go down too much. I mean, it's gone down since like January or so as the DXY has gone up. Not like COVID. The other time the dollar was on a tear, like crypto died. Yes. Yeah. What I'm saying, Ryan, and maybe I'm just

Starting point is 00:09:58 spinning it to talk my own books. But when I see the dollar going up, I just see more for it to Paul. So, David, not bullish on the dollar in long run. No, you know, but this is kind of the big question. Arthur Hayes, the CEO of Bitbex, who is you know, big crypto trader, obviously monitors these things from a macro perspective. He made the case that a crypto correction is incoming. This is a blog post. He said crash, Ryan. He said crash in his article. Did he? I'm going to say, I'm going to go search the word crash. Yeah, no, it was a crash. Well, no, he said that. Nope. Yeah, crypto crash helmet. Yeah. Put it on your crypto crash helmet. Okay.

Starting point is 00:10:34 Colorful language. Love Arthur, you know, in his predictions. And basically his rationale was crypto is correlated with tech stocks. He gives all these examples of how crypto is correlated with tech stocks, lots of charts. Tech stocks are going down, right? It's like, do you see Netflix this week, by the way? Oof, big oof. Lost $50 billion.

Starting point is 00:10:57 Right? Netflix subscriptions are down. So tech stocks going down as a result of the Fed policy tightening. And so what does that mean? Arthur's just putting one and one together. And he's just like, well, that equals crypto is also going down. Crypto is also classified as a risk on asset, just like tech stocks. So if tech stocks are going down, of course crypto has to follow it.

Starting point is 00:11:18 And put on your crypto crash helmet is what he's saying here. That's the bear case. Yeah, it also got way more nuanced than that, though. He also talks about the Central Bank of Japan and the Japanese equities market as like a canary in the coal mine as well. Some really these big brain finance economy stuff that I'm not capable of reiterating. So if you want to learn more, just read the article that's in the show notes. But the summary, TLDR is that he believes that Bitcoin and Ether are crashing to the low, low prices of $30,000 Bitcoin and $2,500 Ether. Which, Ryan, like, I'm kind of confused us.

Starting point is 00:11:53 Not worried about that. Yeah. That's not a crash helmet, man. We saw that, we saw that this year, right? Yeah. And, like, yeah, like, that's fine. Like, I'll see those numbers again. Don't need a helmet for that.

Starting point is 00:12:04 You need a bid for that. Yeah. Did you say a bib? Bid. Oh, okay. I think like a bib, like you're drilling or something. I don't know. But, okay, so I can say that too.

Starting point is 00:12:14 Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. You know, the interesting, I guess, opposite case is coming out on Monday's podcast with Dan Moorhead. So Dan Moorhead does not think that crypto will remain correlated with tech stocks. And if you want to hear why, listen to him. He is the CIO co-founder of Pantera Capital.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And a lot of good macro takes here. So you can see the bear case put out by Arthur and kind of the, the bull case, but even Arthur is not very bearish when you, like, boil it down to pricing. Yeah, that's just a bad week, perhaps a really bad week, but that's not, that's not like blood in the streets level. No way. That's not a crash helmet level, for sure. Let's put on your bibs, guys. That's all you need. Optimism. This is fun. Yeah. Okay, so this is the talk of the town right now at DevConnect. Everyone is talking about optimism. And we've got six indications that optimism is interested in a token.

Starting point is 00:13:11 And so this is the first one. Interested or imminently deploying a token? Yeah, perhaps more of the latter, Ryan. Okay. And so there's some breadcrumbs being trailed, perhaps, and everyone at DevConnect is like, oh, yeah, those are big breadcrumbs. So here's the first one.

Starting point is 00:13:27 On April 19th, a few days ago, optimism tweets out, optimism's story thus far by the numbers, saved $1.1 billion in gas fees for its users, onboarded 300,000 unique Ethereum addresses, secured $900 million in value, and facilitated $17.4 billion of transaction volume, and also generated $24.5 million in revenue. That revenue is impressive.

Starting point is 00:13:53 That's a great revenue number. Yeah. $24.5 million from the sequencing of the transactions. These are how roll-ups make their money. And then they finish this off with a new chapter is near. Let's take a minute to reflect on the path thus far. A new chapter is near. So, Ryan, they're talking a lot about financial. New chapters?

Starting point is 00:14:12 Like money numbers. And then they say, a new chapter is near. What could a new chapter be? That's clue number one. But you said you had six. Six, yes. What's this? What am I looking at?

Starting point is 00:14:23 These, uh, this is, uh, this is the, uh, red dot emoji. There's, like, that's a dot emoji. So with the underscore with a red dot emoji. And this is generally a, uh, a meme that many, um, communities have. And this is now what optimism tweeted out as like, okay, here's, here's our community. But all the other communities, Ryan, have tokens that do this. Optimism would be the first community to do this that doesn't have a token. That's kind of playful. Okay, clue number two. Very playful. Very community generation. Wait, this, what is this? I have no clue what this is,

Starting point is 00:14:55 but like, the optimism team, their sense of humor is very indie and kind of surreal, I would say. absurdist humor, I would say. And so for the listeners, this is a cat with his paw on a bunch of watermelon, but the watermelon are all red. Plush toys? Are they plush toys? Yeah, maybe they're plush toys. They look like watermelon.

Starting point is 00:15:17 But, like, they're all circles, right? They're all, like, token-ish. And so with O.P. written on them. And I guess it's just kind of absurdist humor. But, like, everyone's like, I don't know how or why this makes me think that there's a token, but it does. Clue number three. What's number four?

Starting point is 00:15:33 Okay, this one's a little bit more explicit, Ryan. It's kind of blatant. Coinbase... The territory of a leak. Yeah, Coinbase shows price page for optimism, suggesting a token could be on the way. This might have been an accident by Coinbase, but they added a token page under the title of optimism.

Starting point is 00:15:51 And so this is all happening all at the same time. Thank you, Internet sleuths, for uncovering that. So is that number four? That's number four. That's number four. That's number four. And number five is that I'm at DevConnect and everyone is talking about it. And so that's the other thing.

Starting point is 00:16:07 You're talking explicitly about a token. Everyone's talking about, oh yeah, have you seen the hints that optimism is leaving on the table? I was listening to a panel where all the layer two's were talking about layer two stuff hosted by Anthony Sizzano. I saw my best friend. He was great, gave him a big hug. And then he hosted a panel and I watched that. And of course, his final question is when token, as a meme. Like, when token, ha, ha, ha, you don't have to answer that.

Starting point is 00:16:33 But then Ben Jones from optimism immediately grabs the mic and he goes, all information about this will, it's viewable on our public website. There's no information on there. But like, yeah, the exuberance of grabbing the mic to say that I thought was interesting. So that's number five, Ryan. And number six, are we ready for number six? You know, I'm ready. But I just want to interject one thing.

Starting point is 00:16:53 So like, optimism releasing a token to me kind of kicks off layer two summer, layer 2 22 that we've been saying right the big thing they've got the traction they've got the the value they're generating the revenue the next thing layer 2's need is a token to accelerate all of this so with that what is the sixth clue the sixth clue Ryan is just we're just going to straight up ask them on the state of the nation on Tuesday they're coming on Tuesday because that is when they are scheduled for so optimism's coming on the state of the nation on Tuesday and we are just going to ask them what their plans are with the token well hopefully you were a user of optimism in the past. You probably saw them in our AirDrop Guide that we published

Starting point is 00:17:35 on bank lists back in October. And we'll see what happens. We'll see if this is imminent. It would be very interesting if they were one of the first major layer two's besides like Polygon, that sort of thing, to release a token. I think that's a great news for retail who previously hasn't had exposure to many layer two options, investing options. And there is a spicy take that in addition to we'll talk about this later in the take section. But in addition to L222 coming, L2222 ride is going to be spicy. You know how spicy the Alt Layer 1 wars were? Yeah. Layer 2 wars are going to be the same thing, brother. You're talking about like layer twos against layer twos? Yeah. Why do the kids have to fight, David? Kids are going to have to fight, Ryan? Come on. I don't know. Like, just we're all on Team

Starting point is 00:18:23 Ethereum. Are we not? Yeah, this is true. We're all on Team Ethereum, but you know, you got to compete for the users. There's only so many users and so much TVL to go around. I want to talk to you more about that later, but let's keep moving for now. So in other news, UST, that's the Terra Stablecoin, just became crypto's third largest. So they just overtaken Binance USD. So it's probably just tether and USDC leading and then UST and then UST and now. Go Stablecoin enters number third. What do you think about this? Yeah. I mean, you've got to do the tip of the hat to the growth strategy of Terra. scalable blockchain, scalable stable coin. When you add those two scalable things together,

Starting point is 00:19:06 like you get a bunch of scale. And so tip of the hat to UST to becoming stablecoin number three. Don't screw it up, guys, please. Don't screw it up. Please don't screw it up. Share of the NFT market. This is fantastic from Andrew Steinwald, who is an NFT investor. Saw this a long time coming.

Starting point is 00:19:24 In fact, predicted NFT season long before, on a bankless podcast, long before it came. put together a fantastic report through his crypto fund, his NFT fund, on total sales volume of NFTs. And it's divided into four categories. Art, collectibles, gaming, and the metaverse as a percentage of dollars. And what's interesting about this chart, David, as you could see kind of the squarely lines, how the different categories ebb and flow. So we had a massive sort of art season at first. And these would be probably one of ones in, you know, 2020, 2020. and that has kind of tamed down as a percentage of market.

Starting point is 00:20:01 That's going to be art block season, right? Like that's going to be our block season. Now we got collectible as a big category in Metaverse. Anyway, it's interesting to track these different categories of NFTs over time because even within the NFT sector, some categories of NFTs can be bullish and others can be kind of bearish and new ones are emerging all of the time. Some other broad metrics I think are pretty useful for you guys

Starting point is 00:20:26 if you want a chart of what the NFT market share looks like. But in aggregate. Click on that second graph. Yeah, click on that one. I'll just blow this up here. Oh, okay. Doesn't do it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:37 Just look at that, man. So from it started really everything NFT related started kicking off. It looks like in June of 2021. And that like total sales volume, the volume of NFT sales has just had a very strong floor ever since then. Like huge spike in like August of 2021, but ever since then, like, NFT volume. It looks like it's here to stay forever. Here it is.

Starting point is 00:20:59 We're at almost 10 billion in total NFT sales volume from the beginning of this year. That's just the beginning of this year. There's hope for your underwater NFT, guys. There's still volume out there. Thank you. You tell me turtles are still going to be a thing, David? Turtles might still be a thing. You know, David, we're going to talk about some more things that could be bullish for the NFT sector,

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Starting point is 00:23:51 the AVE protocol governance forums to see what more than 100,000 Dow members are all robbing about at governance.ave.com. Hey guys, we are back with the releases of the week. Have to start with the hottest release of the week, which is the Coinbase NFT platform just rolled out into beta. All right. So only for a subset of users, this is the Coinbase blog. GM, Coinbase NFT is now in beta. David, I know you've been super busy this week. Have you had a chance to take a look at this? Absolutely not. You have an invite, though. I do have an invite, yeah. Coinbase, Coinbase NMT platform invited me, but I was like, I don't have time for this. Yeah, I saw the DM me from the Coinbase, and they said, here's an invite code.

Starting point is 00:24:32 And I was like, what is this a scam? And it looks like it's legit from Coinbase. And it turns out, I got a USB click. Yeah. I have an invite to the beta platform. This is kind of what it looks like. So if you guys are viewing this on YouTube, you can sort of see. And what was interesting about this, and this is from our conversation with Brian Armstrong,

Starting point is 00:24:52 is how social networky it actually is, right? So look at this. This looks like a timeline. You might find on a social network. Neat. See this timeline? Accounts to follow. Which makes sense because the NFT ecosystem moves forward in time very, very quickly, right?

Starting point is 00:25:08 Like the fads move very quickly. So it makes sense for a timeline structure to be that way. Well, it has an account. Like you can go follow Brian Armstrong. Brian Armstrong, the new Tom of the Coinbase NFT platform. Who is he following? He's not following me yet. Brian Armstrong, please follow.

Starting point is 00:25:23 But he's got a thousand followers. Right? And you can see what's in his wallet. I can actually like see everything in my wallet. I'm not logged in at the moment. And then of course there's the open sea shop capability. Right. So you can actually start to buy some of these things. I don't know, man. Look, Mark Zuckerberg talking about the Metaverse, right? Last week we talked about his plan was to do a 50% commission on any NFT sale. Do you think he sees this and it's like shit in his pants right now? You think he's concerned about what point base is doing? Tax is real, then he has to, like, it's completely undrothifiable. Anyways, yes, yes, yes, is your answer to that. Yeah, it's just, look, Coinbase is becoming more of a social media type brand with this play. And, well, I like it. Personally, I like it.

Starting point is 00:26:09 I think there's a lot of potential here. It's fairly simple right now, but I'm excited to see it expand. So this isn't beta now. It'll go generally available, I'm sure, in the kind of the weeks to come. Of course, Coinbase is attending the permissionless conference and their VPs over this are going to talk more about it. So if you're attending that, you can get the scoop. But also, it did something to 0x token price, David.

Starting point is 00:26:30 What's that about? Yeah, so 0X, the 0X network is a relaying network for messages about trades. And so they said they, Coinbase NMT platform announced that they are using the 0X network to facilitate trades. And as a result, the 0x token is up 30%. So congratulations to the 0x network, the 0X is Dow and 0X token holders. They claim a very strong gastrofficiency efficiency and also cross-chain messaging for cross-chain sales, which I think is, I don't know how that would work because you can't like buy an

Starting point is 00:27:05 Ethereum NFT on Solana, but maybe you can pay for an Ethereum NFT and get your Ethereum NFT using Solana tokens, or something like that. Yeah, this is just kind of going multi-chain, like being able to view it. Yeah, but I'm not sure how the trading works, whether they're bridging from change to chain if that's what you're talking about. But right now, the Coinbase Marketplace, NFT Marketplace is just Ethereum only. So that's where they're starting. But I'd imagine they'd expand to other chains as well.

Starting point is 00:27:29 So pretty cool launch. We'll see how this goes. Hopefully this mainstreams more people into the NFT world, right? There's like, what, 40 million or so, maybe 50 million coin-based users? Yeah, exactly. And they had a lot of interest for those too. Another thing that happened this week, I guess, in the releases section, is the Ethereum Foundation. finally released their financial transparency report.

Starting point is 00:27:53 What's the significance of this, David? Yeah, this has been long sought after by, from the general Ethereum community to EF, tell us what your bags are. The EF is a nonprofit that got spun up at the very genesis of Ethereum. It had part of that genesis allocation of ether from the very beginning. They've been slowly selling that ether over time to fund stuff, developer salaries, things like DevConn, for example. but there hasn't really been too much transparency into the actual financials of the EF.

Starting point is 00:28:23 And largely the first like two years, three plus years of the EF was very, very chaotic. And so like getting all the ducks in a row. It almost went underwater. Like they almost ran out of money. Yeah. Yeah, right. But like things are really shaping up around the EF. And they finally released a report that describes what is actually in the EF treasury.

Starting point is 00:28:43 And it's a lot of money, Ryan. I think it's over a billion dollars. And $1.61 billion in ether. Excuse me, 80% of that is in ether, which is, if you are curious, that is 0.3% of the total circulating supply of ETH. And also they hold $11 million in other cryptocurrencies. It's probably Bitcoin because they took the ether like Genesis sale, the pre-sale in Bitcoin. So they've probably been holding some of that Bitcoin for a really long time. And then probably the rest is in dollars as well.

Starting point is 00:29:14 Yeah, I think it's pretty cool. right so you said it's a lot 1.6 billion dollars is a lot of money 80% in ether but think about it from the perspective of total supply it's tiny it's so tiny it's so small it's so small 3% of all ether supply compare that to you the other centralized bodies that are creating clients on some of the other alternative layer ones that it like own 10 15 20% yeah sometimes way more yeah sometimes way more massive amount. So this is actually a modest, relatively modest amount. Good, of course, to see that they're holding it in ETH. I imagine they'll stake. Like, you could basically create kind of a perpetual funding for something like the EF. If you just take a large portion, say,

Starting point is 00:29:57 a billion dollars of your ETH, you stake, you generate a four or five percent return, and then you kind of fund the protocol for what it needs. I wonder if that's what the plan is. Long term, yeah, instead of having block rewards funding, which is extremely contentious, but also very, very sustainable, like proof of stake yields from a billion dollars, that can fund a lot of salaries for a large amount of time. Yeah, and that's a billion dollars at today's ETH price, right? When ETH hits 10K, when ETH gets 20K, when ETH hits 30K, as it's going to do. When ETH fulfills its manifest destiny. That'll be a lot more. So that's good. And look, they're spending about $48 million per year

Starting point is 00:30:34 right now, so they do have a fairly high burn. There's a breakdown of that, too. Good to see some additional transparency here. It's bullish. David, another release. this week, we're still on the releases. An NFT product from index co-op. It's called JPEG, JPEG. What is this? Yeah, it's designed to provide liquid access to the top NFT collections

Starting point is 00:30:54 through a single index token. And so in order to be included in this new JPEG index, a token must be a claim on or be collateralized by or provide currency for NFTs. Basically, it's not an index with NFTs inside of them. It's an index with ERC-12,

Starting point is 00:31:12 tokens that are related to NFTs. So there's fractionalized crypto punks, for example. There's the Jenny Dow. There's the SOX token for the UNISOX. There's also the dog currency out of the Doge ecosystem from PleaserDAO and a few others as well. Basically, it's a, if you are a token that has financialized NFTs in some way, this is an index for that. Cool. I'm excited to see that grow with some other financialized ERC20 assets as well. Also, Volt rolled out this week. This is like a CPI adjusted stable coin designed by like the tribe ecosystem, the creators of Faye. To me, when I read this, David, it seems sort of similar to what we were talking about with Sam, which is Fraxes, CPI adjusted stablecoin, which is basically like inflation is eight and a half percent per year.

Starting point is 00:32:02 You can hold your money in a stablecoin dollars, but why not create something new and create some sort of stable coin that doesn't degrade at the rate of inflation. So it keeps up with CPI. So you could hold it in this asset and not get that 8.5% inflation rate. They do that with an on-chain Oracle that measures CPI. What do you think about this? Yeah, I'm actually kind of skeptical about these whole CPI adjusted stable coins. I guess they're good for holding, but when you break the peg of the dollar, you lose the dollar standard, right? And, And one of the reasons why stable coins have so much liquidity is because they're all interchangeable with each other. Die, tether, USD, USDC, and there's a lot of liquidity there.

Starting point is 00:32:46 You use like the unit of account, right? Right. Breaking the unit of account loses a lot of network effects. And so, like, can this thing be super liquid? Like, TBD. I could totally understand, like, if you are interested in just holding your savings in dollars, then this would be a good thing to hold it in. But then are you going to be able to yield farm with this thing as much as you can with dollars

Starting point is 00:33:07 in defy, like kind of unsure about that one. And so I'm a little bit skeptical as to the adoption of this thing. Yeah, it's like a different standard. One thing I'll say is super cool that crypto can produce something like this. That is true. This is not available in like the quote unquote Tradify real world. But yeah, I kind of agree with you. Like my, my idea about like storing wealth is I'll store some in dollars, right? But then I want to store everything else in like Eath. I don't want this mid in between thing that is just. protecting me from CPI inflation. I'd rather just have some dollars over here and then eth over here that's providing the

Starting point is 00:33:44 protection and kind of the middle part of the barbell. I just don't really care too much about. But we'll see. That's just me. I mean, inflation was 8.5% reported like 10% plus actual. Again, Danmore Head podcast is going to be a great one. And so, like, I guess if you can't yield farm more than that, then it makes sense. But like, you can yield farm, you can get your yield farm returns pretty high.

Starting point is 00:34:07 Yeah. So, it's going to be a tug-of-war here. Yeah, it's cool. By the way, look, you mentioned the Dan Moorhead podcast. That's coming up. We just released the spring lineup for the bankless podcast. Let me tell you. Is this a bankless release?

Starting point is 00:34:19 This is a bankless release. We're fitting this in the releases. So read out what's coming. What's coming down the pipe for bankless? Dan Moorhead coming on Monday, but followed by Steve Ayoki, Steve Ayoki, the entrepreneur who's into NFTs, who also throws cake in the face of his fans. He's coming. we're recording him on Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:34:38 Ryan, I bet you didn't know that Steve Ayoki's known for throwing cake at people. I didn't know that, no. Yeah, he's known for that. Yeah. Jim O'Shaughnessy, he's coming on the podcast, followed by Raoul Paul. And then Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful, he's coming on. We're going to live stream with him, getting the other half of the crypto shark tank. And then, Ryan, I think this last one's so great.

Starting point is 00:35:01 Drum roll. Mark Andreson and Chris Dixon. Mark and Dreson comes back to have comes to the podcast for the first. first time, the Andresen of a 16C, and then Chris Dixon coming back to co-guests with him as well. Yeah. That's awesome, man. Look, Andresen doesn't do crypto podcasts. This might be his first one.

Starting point is 00:35:17 I'm super excited to talk to him. Okay. There are so few people left for the bankless podcast. And those people are Elon Musk, Ray Dalio. And that's about it. Barack Obama. Yeah, when he gets into, he needs to buy his NFT first. So if you can get us access.

Starting point is 00:35:36 to Ray Dalio. We really want Ray Dalio. He needs to come on bank lists. And also Elon Musk. Elon Musk will come eventually. But Ray Dalio is the one we're really looking for right now. You know, it's actually on my list, David, is Elizabeth Warren. I want to have that nice talk with Elizabeth. Yeah, I bet you do. I bet you do. About crypto things. All right, let's go to raises, man. Raises. So the sandbox, which is a Metaverse platform, they just geared up for another raise. This is a $4 billion valuation. They just raised $400 million. Huge. What's this next one, David?

Starting point is 00:36:08 Framework Ventures, Van Spencer. He was our first big episode on the podcast ever, the Bull Case for Defi. They raised a $400 million fund with a special focus on blockchain and gaming. So congratulations to the team over at Framework Ventures. I've met some of your guys here at DevConnect. Yeah, it's a really talented team, super crypto-native. An Indian cryptocurrency exchange called Coin DCX just topped a $2 billion valuation, $130 million funding. Interesting to see every one of these nation state geographies have their own sort of set

Starting point is 00:36:41 of exchange players. And India is certainly one of them. So it's onboarding more Indians to crypto, which is fantastic. What's this next one? Yeah, EPNS, the Ethereum push notification system service, raised $10 million at evaluation of $131 million. This is like push notifications for anything that's happening to your wallets in case like, I don't know, you could an airdrop, you can get a ping on your phone. $101 $30 million evaluation. Congratulations, guys. That's cool.

Starting point is 00:37:11 Speaking of Mr. Wonderful, comment on the podcast, live streaming. Kevin O'Leary is backed platform called WonderFi, just acquired Coinberry for $38 million. Coinberry is a Canadian cryptocurrency exchange. That's where Kevin's from, Canada. So it looks like he's wanting to get in on the Canadian market there with crypto. That's pretty cool as well. David, did you have any jobs talk this? week at uh in amsterdam are there are people hiring the the joke was uh bartek uh this is

Starting point is 00:37:42 going to be also again later in the takes but bartek from l2b talked about uh when he was going through his talk he's like well i'm interested in hiring but everyone in this room is interested in hiring uh and so there's there's nothing new information everyone is hiring in crypto uh and so if you got the talent you can find the jobs yeah and to find the jobs go to bankless dot pallet.com slash jobs and you'll be able to find them. Okay, I'm going to read some out for you guys. This first one though, I'm going to read this one out, Ryan. Bankless Junior designer plus After Effects skills.

Starting point is 00:38:14 You might have remembered our ultrasound money. There is no floor meme a while ago, a gif, a very long gif. There was also this football gift. If you are good with After Effects and also have junior design skills and want to be paid to make dank memes, bankless, the company that you are listening to right now is hiring. So special call out for that. We're always in the dank me market. Also, an Ethereum core developer?

Starting point is 00:38:38 Wow. That's a really bold job position from Nethermind. They're an Ethereum client, a Gowling engineer for Storknet client, Nethermind as well. We're still looking for a newsletter editor. I see David. He's up there. He's dancing. This is great.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Content manager at Talley, Director of Developer Relations, a solidity architect at Alu, a marketing manager at Meshahua, a marketing manager at Meshya, UX designer Prometheus Research Labs, Community Manager, DGEN Dogs Club, co-founder for innovative, OmniChane, D5, Primis. TBB blockchain engineers at Masari Software Engineer at Masari Operations Manager, Syndica, Senior Product Designer, Smart, Defi, Senior Go, Rust Engineer, Syndica, Full Stack Engineer,

Starting point is 00:39:14 Syndica, Senior Software Engineer, AirDrop Labs. And David is now jumping on the bed in his hotel room in order to help you get a job in crypto. That's the link this man is going to to help you get your job in crypto, which is where you need to spend your career. We're only going to keep hiring. It's just like this job list is only going to get longer. Some people have their snow dance when they want snow to happen.

Starting point is 00:39:38 They have their snow dance. I have the I want bankless listeners to get a job and get a job and get their dance. Join us, join us. Let's talk about this. News time. One of the big news items of the week was a Metamask hack exploit. Don't freak out. It's not every Metamask account, of course.

Starting point is 00:39:56 But this is an interesting security hole. So one Metamask user just lost 655. thousand dollars worth of crypto. A lot of these were NFTs using MetaMask on mobile. What happened? Well, apparently, if you have your settings set up to do this on your iPhone, Metamask will actually upload Metamask private keys to the ICloud, Apple's Cloud, as a backup, right? To help restore Metamask, if you lose your phone or something, a backup, nice, nice friendly backup. Well, this user had his iCloud account compromised. And so some of those private keys were compromised.

Starting point is 00:40:35 And so I think this is sort of a PSA. This is what public service announcement, if you are using MetaMask on mobile, if you have an Android, if you have an iPhone in particular, and you are uploading that your backups, your private keys to iCloud, like don't do that anymore.

Starting point is 00:40:52 Turn off that setting. Go check your phone right now. We'll include a link in the show notes where you can find the exact setting to disable under profile iCloud backups. Just don't backup your private key. Keep your private keys on your phone if you're using MetaMask in the setting.

Starting point is 00:41:08 Name a worst duo, private keys in the internet. Don't mix those things. Don't put them in the cloud, guys. Good private key management, good reminder. David, there was another exploit this week. I'm wondering if you talk about this. And maybe we should start with the Bean price chart because that's where the exploit was,

Starting point is 00:41:25 this token called Bean. It looks like it's up 100% But it's not. It's not actually on the actual front page. It's actually down very, very big. Yeah, so there was a exploit for, to the tune of $80 million, $24,830Eth plus 36 million Bean token. All right, what is Bean? It's a decentralized algorithmic stable coin. I think it's got reminiscent. It was reminded me of empty set dollar a while ago. When price goes above a dollar, they create more of these tokens to bring the price back down. and then when the price goes down below,

Starting point is 00:41:58 they attract new buyers by issuing credit. And, you know, very risky, very experimental. Seemed to be going well. If you like, yeah, look at that market cap. Market cap was going up and to the right really, really fast. And then it went to zero because of an exploit. Near zero. Very near zero.

Starting point is 00:42:16 Basically to zero. And so the exploit was pretty interesting, actually. It was a flash loan governance attack that enabled the attacker to drain all of the money in the, in the treasury, I guess. So there is a BIP, what I can imagine is a BN improvement proposal, 18 was flash loan approved by a hacker. And once that EIP was merged on chain, I think is how this works, that enabled this exploit to happen. And then in that same transaction,

Starting point is 00:42:47 the attacker approved the governance proposal and then drain the, and then drain the treasury and was yonked all the funds. $80 million. I've never seen a chart like this. David, look at this man. This just falls off a cliff, right? This is what happens when an Algo stable coin gets hacked. You go from $100 million in market cap all the way down to like $5 million in the space

Starting point is 00:43:07 of like 24 hours, like 96, 97% loss. Boom. Yeah. A $5 million market cap, Brian, is essentially zero. It may as well be. Yeah. And this hack was interesting. You know, what I think we've been talking a lot about algorithmic stable coins recently

Starting point is 00:43:25 and a lot of the concern about them is sort of depegging risk, right? If it's not back, there's kind of the run on the bank, and then everyone tries to cash out. There's non-level liquidity, and the price crashes, right? That's definitely one way in Algo Stablecoin could die in a hurry. But the other way is it just gets hacked. This was an economic exploit. So issues with the smart contract code essentially led to some flaws,

Starting point is 00:43:49 which allowed the flash loan governance attack. And this also kills the, the Algo stable coin. So a lot of risks when we're talking about these types of stable coins. Yeah, especially when like Algo stable coins are inherently faith-based, right? Anything under collateralized, it's the remainder collateralization is therefore faith. And this one had zero collateral. And so it was all faith.

Starting point is 00:44:14 And so once the economic incentives break and then it goes into faith. And if there's not no faith there to back it up because it just got exploited, it just goes to zero. The bean community is still trying to resolve, you know, trying to come back from this. I don't know if they'll be successful or not. Certainly some of the other stable coins that have just evaporated and never came back. Like empty set dollar basis cash, they're all in the dustbin of history. So we'll have to see. Reminding you that these Algo stable coins in particular are incredibly risky and experimental.

Starting point is 00:44:47 David, we said this in the intro. North Korea was actually responsible for last month's massive side chain Ronin theft. The FBI is now confirming this. What's the story here? Yeah, I actually don't know how we confirm that it was North Korea, but this Lazarus group, which has been associated with North Korea, is apparently discovered to be responsible for the hack. So North Korea now owns $625 million worth of ETH.

Starting point is 00:45:13 I tweeted out during that hack, it's like, hey, if you steal like $600 million from an exploit, you have to pay taxes on that? And it turns out, in this case, they don't because it's North Korea. Wow. And they're actually cycling a lot of this through tornado cash, or some of it through tornado cash to try to wipe the slate clean. That confuses me because like what does it matter? They're in North Korea. They're not hiding from anyone. Then they can then they can change it like they can cycle it into I guess another asset and sort of cash cash out because right now you know the the eth that they stole is it's kind of blacklisted from a lot of exchanges from the rest of the

Starting point is 00:45:51 world. But the whole country is blacklisted, Ryan. I don't know. I don't know. You know what is interesting to me. And this was not quite a, this is more like a multi-sig attack where, again, someone like validated for keeping their private keys in the cloud, which again, like, do not do this, especially if you're a bridge or a side chain. So that's the way it was hacked. But it also reminds me of like something we talked about a long time ago during the earlier days of crypto is this concept of being. having sovereign security resistant. So like the Bitcoiner concept of one day the nation states are going to come attack our blockchain.

Starting point is 00:46:28 And we have to be ready for that. We have to be resilient against those forms of attack. We're not exactly sure how they will do this. But this is now kind of a nation state operative group attacking crypto assets and after fashion attacking chains. So we're at that point in history where blockchains are getting attacked by nation states. and that's why security matters, I think, more than ever, particularly at the base layer. So somewhat interesting.

Starting point is 00:46:56 Security is tight. We like security. This is cool, too. Maker is integrating Starknet. What's happening here? Yeah, basically they are deploying multi-collateral dye. They're deploying Maker-Dow onto Starknet natively. And so that's the news.

Starting point is 00:47:11 So congratulations to MakerDow. 10x improvement in gas costs, of course. That is the big carrot that these protocols. have for moving to layer two. David, let's talk about this in NFT news. So Punk 6529 has just released something called OM. What is OM? Yeah, OM.

Starting point is 00:47:30 I actually don't know what OM stands for. My guess was Open Metaverse, but the name actually isn't whatever that stands for isn't out, or maybe it just means OM. OM is a digital museum. And so 6529 has a fantastic NFT collection. He's a collector of collectors. And so he's building out this OM museum to display his NFTs in like some sort of like it's

Starting point is 00:47:54 also a digital land space. And so there is, it's kind of like I think a hub and spoke model where there are actually 10 museums out there. And this is just the first one. And there are going to be, I think, sales for the remaining amount of land. People can come and check out all of the NFTs in the gallery, probably with some sort of like virtual reality, but it's probably viewable on your computer as And so all of his first, the first district, they're calling them districts, is going to display 2,000 NFTs from different collections, including 6-5-2-9s as well as some others. Board of Yvaclav, Cryptopunks, all the art blocks. And then over time, these different districts, 10 self-governing cities, he describes them, will be unveiled, unbailed, and slowly rolled out in what is being called the Alpha Mode version of this Metaverse Museum. This is pretty stunning.

Starting point is 00:48:46 I love these visuals. This looks great. Do you think this will catch on? Do you think like the future of NFT museums is not physical going to a museum in person and seeing like a digital display, but actually going to the metaverse and displaying NFTs in somewhere like this? I certainly think there's room for both, but I definitely think that the product market fit behind a digital NFT museum. I mean, it's the same thing. Like, so many more people see my crypto punk on my Twitter avatar than they would if I displayed my crypto punk in my apartment, although people do see that because it's in the background of my weekly roll-ups. But still, people see that on Twitter more. And so a digital metaverse, a digital museum is going to be much more accessible than a physical one. Do you know, as cool as this is, David, it does also feel a little schemorphic, right? because we're sort of replicating the museum.

Starting point is 00:49:33 This is the first phase of crypto display where we're sort of replicating the museum experience but putting that in the digital world. And I wonder how much more we'll unlock, right? It's kind of like the early stages of the internet where we would just take a physical magazine and we just upload that basically. And then we found out, no, website designs much more fluid,

Starting point is 00:49:53 much more dynamic. There are way better ways to display this content than just porting the print magazine format to the digital world. I wonder if we'll see that in the future. as well. Yeah, I think that's a good take, but in order to get to the internet, Ryan, you still had to start with putting a magazine on the internet. You have to go through the schumorphic phase, no matter what, absolutely. That is the model. This is cool. Warner Music Group just partnered with Poap, the Poep protocol, to Mint Shared Memories as NFTs. We've talked about

Starting point is 00:50:20 Poep in the past. This is now a record label partnering with Poep to do that. What do you think this means? Yeah, I think they're just going to be integrate NFTs in the same way everyone else loves NFTs and they're very they're huge at conferences. Ryan, I saw actually out of the Po-Ap team credit card sized credit cards I guess Poep Poep RFID chips right and so I can hand you my credit card and you can put your phone on it and then boom you can mint my NFT or my my Pellap I mean yeah yeah so like the cool thing is and say like I have all these stickers I have some of them here in this bag like this is the boomer phase of Po apps where I've been handing out these stickers and then like a QR code on the back yeah and then we'll throw like

Starting point is 00:50:59 Then they get the QR code and they can slap a sticker somewhere. But then this one is just like a card, like you hold in your credit card wallet, and you can just like place it under somebody's phone and then boom, into POAP. And so, you know, mine is the You Met David Hoffman Poap. There is with Warner Music Group, rapper Kevin Gates, here's an example of how this is going to get used. Kevin Gates, never heard of him. It's related to integrate Poaps into his CASA tour, making one available to fans who attend his upcoming show at Red Rock's Ampleader. You go to a concert, you get a POAP.

Starting point is 00:51:31 Right. Like, duh, that's perfect. Like, I was there. I was there. Like, no one needs to explain that. And you get these hardcore fans who I went to 10. I went to 20. I'm touring.

Starting point is 00:51:41 I'm like basically going with this band all across the country, all across the world. I'm collecting these poeaps. And then maybe on the other side of that, now the creator has like an air drop list. A list. You want to see who your, you want to see who your 1,000 top fans are. It's people who have the most poeaps. And so what do you do with that? It's super cool.

Starting point is 00:52:01 Totally. Yeah, it's a use cases. Use cases are obvious. Yeah, they sure seem to be. And yet at the same time, we do have these like top signals maybe, some 2017 vibes in the NFT world. This is an influencer shill price list. And so people aren't aware.

Starting point is 00:52:18 There are a lot of NFT influencers in the space and they actually get paid to promote things. Okay. So like, be aware of this. This is, this is for. if you want an NFT influencer to retweet your NFT, retweet something, or do a shill tweet to their followers, this is the price point for that. You can get Lindsay Lohan, David. How much is Lindsay Lohan tweet going for to shill our NFT? A Lindsay Lohan tweet, a shill tweet is $25,000. A retweet is $20,000.

Starting point is 00:52:50 And then you can get a package deal for two tweets plus one retweet for $35,000, Ryan. So something else that's going on is compound the lending and borrowing protocol. One of the kickstaters of Defy Summer and the yield farming movement, they might actually ditch yield farming, no longer issue tokens to those supplying liquidity to the protocol. And this comes, I think, on the back of down bad for comp token, right? Like, it's been bleeding relative to dollars, but also bleeding relative to Eith. And a lot of people. Well, as all defytef tokens have.

Starting point is 00:53:27 All defy tokens have, but particularly the ones that are giving a lot of generous yield to those that are farming them, those that are basically providing liquidity to them, because that acts as a supply drain, right? So what are yield farmers doing? They're taking their tokens. They're saying, thank you very much, and they're converting that to dollars or Eith or Bitcoin. They're just selling it. Market sell.

Starting point is 00:53:51 So the holders of comp in the governance are saying, hey, this is not a sustainable strategy, let's no longer do that. And there's some governance proposals in the work to stop yield farming from the originators of the yield farming movement. What do you think? Yeah, it's nice to see, one, it's nice to see the comp governance actually doing something. Comp hasn't done anything in a long time. Like, compound has just been the way that it is, which is why people appreciate it, right? Generally considered rock solid. But also, you guys could have done this, you guys could have seen this coming forever ago. Like, comp has been yield farm to death for like, oh, it was, It's kickstarted D-Fi summer, and now it's killing the whole, it's killing the thing that it started, like almost two years later. Yeah. I mean, when the token price is down bad, people are like, hey, let's stop issuing. That's natural. They should, right? This is why these tokens need to be governed and the holders need to be economically, like, incented. And they certainly are for token value appreciation. Some other people like Teddy from Notional Finance think it's a very bad idea.

Starting point is 00:54:54 saying that what will happen is your liquidity will dry up and your yields will dry up and people will stop using the compound protocol, right? Like what would happen is if you removed comp rewards, your interest rates on die would move from 2.7% to like 0.7%. 0.72%, right? And so, like, are you going to be able to sustain the liquidity after the token rewards dry up? that's the big question.

Starting point is 00:55:24 Well, they should be able to because as demand goes up, yields go up as well. And so is there enough dye to borrow? It's not like compound is an exchange that needs to have liquid markets. It just needs to have ample supply. And if more die gets demanded out of the protocol, the yields do increase. So I'm not concerned about that. Yeah, I do think all token communities start thinking more about their economics during the bear season, right? Ethereum is no different.

Starting point is 00:55:51 Bitcoin's no different. They all do this. Let's talk about this, David. So crypto, as we talked about before, is funding military defense. Look at this. This is from Ukraine. I think these are these vests? These are, no, they're bulletproof plates.

Starting point is 00:56:05 Yeah, so they slip into a vest. So it's just kind of nice to see the evidence of all the crypto donations. We're 200 sets of ballistic plates of class four, four class bulletproof vests. Don't know what that means, but I'm sure someone with military experience does. But yeah, crypto buying bulletproof vests. Cool. crypto funding military defense? Like, it's kind of, it's kind of cool. It's also a little dystopian, maybe. I don't know how I feel about it, but yeah. It feels like we're in 2020s.

Starting point is 00:56:31 Yeah, welcome to the 2020s. This is what we're doing now. Guys, we will be back with the takes of the week, but before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible. AVE is the leading decentralized liquidity protocol. And now AVEV3 is here. Avey V3 has powerful new features to enable you to get the most out of D5, including isolation mode, which allows for many more markets to be launched with more exotic collateral types, and also efficiency mode, which allows for a higher loan to value ratios, and of course, portals, allowing users to port their AVE position across all of the networks that AVE operates on, like Polygon, Phantom, Avalanche, Arbitrum, optimism, and harmony. The beautiful thing about AVE is that it's completely

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Starting point is 00:59:07 If you're a DGEN, many of your favorite dafts on Ethereum are already on Arbitrum, with many moving over every day. Go to bridge.arbitrum.io now to start bridging over your eth and other tokens in order to experience DeFi and NFTs in the way it was always meant to be. Fast, cheap, secure, and friction-free. All right, guys, we are back with the takes of the week. This is one from Lee Jen. Why don't you read this out, David? Yeah, Lee Jin, previous podcast guests about the creator economy. She says, do things that make your friends and family worried about you. I definitely appreciate it. What do you think she means, Ryan? I think she's meaning like her parents, her friends, her family. We're probably saying, are you sure you want to like dive into

Starting point is 00:59:47 crypto. Like to this degree, go all in. It seems risky. We're worried about you. Is everything okay? I don't know. What kind of reaction did you get from your family when you told them about your crypto shenanigans? Oh yeah. I kind of added that my own take down to her take right below it. You can see it. And I go, my mom about my career choices throughout 2018 to 2020. And she was like, well, he's happy. So that's such a mom thing to say. What does she think now, though? It's like 2021, 2021, 22. You know, for me, my family was like, had no idea what I was really doing.

Starting point is 01:00:27 But then, like, Mark Cuban came on the bankless podcast. And they were like, oh, my God. Mark Cuban? Right. That was the name for them that really stuck out. I'm like, Mark Cuban's cool. I like Mark Cuban. But, like, we had Vitalik on, okay?

Starting point is 01:00:39 That should be a big deal to you. But no, they were unimpressed by Vitalik, really excited about Mark Cuban. For my family, it was Hester Purst. my family is definitely like political and engaged. My sister works in government. So having SEC commissioner, Hester Purse was like a big deal. Legitimacy. Legitimacy, yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:55 And then also Andrew Yang because they knew I was a big Yang fan. They're like, oh, yeah, Dave's climbing all the way up there. That's pretty cool. Do you think your family was always before like Hester Purst came on the podcast? I don't know what David's doing. It seems a little sketchy. And then when you got an SEC commissioner. Yeah, I definitely explained it to them.

Starting point is 01:01:11 So like, oh, Dave's doing what he really, really likes. but it was just like a normal job back then. And now it's like, yeah, the leading podcast in the crypto industry, which is a little different of a story. Well, he's happy. He's happy. He's happy. He's happy. A big smile on his face.

Starting point is 01:01:29 That's awesome, man. Andrew Cronier, we talked about this in the beginning. Somebody who's not happy. He's not happy. Basically, a line from his medium post is crypto culture has strangled crypto ethos. So he went through this whole blog post. called the rise and fall of crypto culture.

Starting point is 01:01:46 Crypto is dead, long-lived crypto. I think the TLDR of this post is basically, we need more regulation. I now more than ever see the need, he says, or even necessity for regulation, not as a mechanism to prevent, but as a mechanism to protect. It's like a child trying to stick their finger

Starting point is 01:02:03 into the electric outlet. You stop them before they can learn why they shouldn't. One day they will understand, but not today. Andre, the father of many DFI protocols and sort of the, I guess one of the main architects behind that like ship fast break things. Yeah. And that's like his strategy.

Starting point is 01:02:22 Like I test in prod. Remember that was the line coming out of, you know, 2020? And now is saying we need tighter controls, more regulation, more oversight of this industry. What do you think? This is ridiculous, dude. He was the guy that incentivized this behavior. He like, he became Andre Cronier because he gave the apes, fuel. He gave the apes things to ape into. And now he's like, you know what? This industry needs

Starting point is 01:02:49 less things for the apes to do. It's like, dude, you're the reason why you're making the complaints in the first place. Like, it reminds me of like the quick, like, there was this guy. I can't remember who it was. But the bit license in New York was made by like this federal regulator or something and made the bit license, which made it very, very hard to actually like spin up a Bitcoin or crypto company in New York. And you know what? did after that, Ryan, after he made the bit license. No. He started consulting for how to get approved for the bit license.

Starting point is 01:03:22 You think Audrey wants to become a regulator? Well, I don't know. But first he's like, he's like, oh, dude, all of this ape culture is terrible. But he got rich off of ape culture. He got famous off of ape culture. He's got, like, extremely well respected by his populist following because of ape culture. And now I was like, well, I don't like ape culture because it needs to be regulations. They're too apie.

Starting point is 01:03:41 It's like, dude, you created this. Yeah, testing and pride kind of does that to you. This is another take from a critic who I think shares some your points. Do you want to read this out? Yeah, it goes, a man who makes nine to ten figures building multitudes of shitcoins and projects, thanks to crypto's lack of regulation, then quits the space and now advocates for the biggest meme of all, investor protection and regulation. Welcome to the clown world.

Starting point is 01:04:08 Yep, that's a, that's, and this seems to be consensus by people that I've talked to. I would like to actually talk to Andre at some point about this take and hear how he explains. It's actually been a while since he's been on the podcast, but maybe we'll just let this blow over for a bit and see what happens. David, you had another take about, again, this is sort of about MFers, which I think MFers are really cool. These NFTs that work off of the creative common license. So anyone can create a derivative of them. Anyone can essentially fork them and create their own version of those. and there was an airdrop to all MF holders.

Starting point is 01:04:43 On 420. On 420, all right? There's these awesome crazies, they're called, MFers, that were just airdrop to everyone who has an MF, an MFT. Yeah. Yeah, and like you just got it automatically, and there's like psychedelic derivative MFs that look pretty awesome. And you're going to take about this.

Starting point is 01:05:05 What's your take? Yeah, I said MFers are the new money printer, because MFers are like the OG of the MFER ecosystem, but there's been thousands, what seems like thousands of derivatives, right? Some era drops, some just randomly minted, some you get to claim if you have an MFer, some are completely different. But it reminded me of like the era of Bitcoin fork and fair launches where people would fork off Bitcoin and then make their own like new blockchain using the Bitcoin state.

Starting point is 01:05:35 And if you had Bitcoin, you had all of these new. tokens because it was a fork off of the Bitcoin network. So if you had Bitcoins, you had tokens on this new chain. And so Bitcoin was the brand for Bitcoin at the time was Bitcoin gets all the upside of all these derivatives because you can always... Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Diamond, Bitcoin Satoshi's Vision, whatever else. Right. So if you sold all of your Bitcoin forks, you would just get a lot more Bitcoin, right? And so like I'm seeing the same thing play out because MFers are so easy to make derivatives of the OGMFers are like the OG Bitcoin, right? You get all the derivatives, like you just

Starting point is 01:06:08 get the money printer. And so that was my take. MFers are the new money printer, but for NFTs this time. That's cool. It's openness can be a competitive advantage and a competitive strategy, certainly. And that's what CreativeCom and license provides for for MFers. Also, I have a lot of MFers. So this is me chilling my bag here. Well, full disclosure there then. I only have one, David. I should probably have more. But now I have some derivatives too. Yeah, should we get into it? What are you excited about this week? Well, Ryan, we still have all the rest of the week for DevConnect. So, Today's, there's some parties.

Starting point is 01:06:39 Tomorrow's going to be some even more parties. And then on Sunday, there's Rave. So I'm excited to finish up DevConnect. But one thing I noticed is that during the Layer 2B, the Layer 2 Amsterdam two-day summit of sorts, there was a, you could get a very hint of what's coming down the line during L2 season. And then we kicked off.

Starting point is 01:07:01 The first Dankrad opened up about a very well-informed talk about what is left in the L-L-L-L-L-2 ecosystem to really, the boxes that need to be checked, right? Very good talk to get up to speed with layer two's. And then followed by Bartek from layer two B talking about his risk framework saying like, okay, like we got we have like upgradable contracts. That's something that needs to be fixed. We have centralized sequencers like over time that needs to decentralize.

Starting point is 01:07:25 And like he in layer two B does a really good job of like showing all the weaknesses and all the different L2s that need to be patched. And he used the arbitram 12 hour sequencer downtime that happened like last September. As an example. as an example. And actually we reported on this Ryan, like, oh, yeah, in layer two's, if they go down, you can just exit through the Ethereum L1. You can just exit through the main chain. And yes, that is true in theory about layer twos in their very mature state, but that wasn't true, Ryan, about Arbitrum at the time. And a lot of people didn't actually know that. And so Bartak was talking about the, and this is what he's trying to get known by the ecosystem is there's a lot of lacking of standards and definitions that we can't really. talk about like what is true and what is not true without this risk frameworks. That's what Bartek is working on right now. But it got really spicy, Ryan, because he was talking about, yeah, like little did people know. You couldn't actually have gotten that L1 transaction through. It

Starting point is 01:08:19 wouldn't have worked because there's still a lot of gaps in the armor for these layer twos. But you could hear, I was sitting, the Arbitrum team and the Arbitrum, I think this was the CEO, unconfirmed, was sitting behind me and you could hear them rumor. I was like, wait a second, that's not true. That's not true. That's wrong. And then basically they got really frustrated. and the Arbitrime CEO, I think, said, just loudly said, that's not true and made Bartek stumble and, like, got really spicy in the room kind of gig. Some tension. Some tension in the room, right?

Starting point is 01:08:47 And so then I went to a couple of the, after that talk, like, wrapped up, I went to a couple of the L2 teams and talked about that moment because they weren't there in the room. And then we're like, well, actually, no, it actually was true. But the point is, is exactly, like, the reason why we can't come to consensus on what's true or not is because why we need definitions and standards, exactly. Exactly. So arbitram is right under their definition and other teams are right under their definition. But I guess the takeaway here is you're saying there's like the kids are fighting.

Starting point is 01:09:14 There's some tension here. They're claiming. They're trying to clamor for like liturimacy and they're trying to clamor for just like, you know, they're clamoring. People are clamoring. And like we got the hints of the optimism token coming soon. And so that's going to kick off. You know what tokens do is they just, they just add steroids to everything you're doing. So if you have a little hint of trying to.

Starting point is 01:09:35 tribalism. Just a little hint of like our layer two is better than yours, which is only natural, right? They're all competitive environments. Add a token to that. And your tiny campfire becomes an inferno. Right. And suddenly you have like tokenized communities who just are just meme armies like shitting on all sorts of different communities and battles back and forth. And we get what we already have in the Alt Layer 1 world, which is all of these communities fighting with one another. And then people shaking their heads and be like, why is cryptos are tribal? It's because the incentive make us very tribal, don't they? That's exactly right.

Starting point is 01:10:08 That's exactly right. So, like, for better or for worse, Ryan, this is coming. And competition is always good for the end user. So I think this is really going to accelerate the development of layer two's. L222 is just around the corner. You can taste it. And Ryan, that is what I'm excited about. Well, I am sort of, my position is kind of the, I want all the kids to get along,

Starting point is 01:10:28 the whole family to get along. I want us all to scale decentralization. on us all to scale Ethereum. So I am excited about all of these various experiments. I think all of the layer two teams, almost all of them, are just legit, like passionate, doing this for the right reasons, just fantastic. But it kind of reminds me, you know,

Starting point is 01:10:48 we use the nation state analogy for like the United Rollups of Ethereum is kind of like the U.S. and the states or the various rollups, and Ethereum is kind of like the federal government. It's almost like California kind of wants to get in a fight with Texas a little bit and take like market share from Texas. Texas. Yeah, it's a little like, yeah, Biggie versus Tupac. I don't know, North versus South, something like this, Florida versus Texas, California, I don't know. There's something like that,

Starting point is 01:11:13 and I think that's coming too. So we will, of course, have to navigate that. But can I, like, just to tie off the DevConnect conversation. Wait, wait, wait, before we do, though, yeah, we all know the crypto industry runs on attention and what is going to have more attention than a bunch of layer two fighting with each other? Like, bullish fighting? Question my hiding. But I don't want to fight all the time, David. Oh, it's coming, Ryan. It's coming.

Starting point is 01:11:40 Buckle up, guys. I just kind of thought maybe some of the L2s would just, I don't know, band together. It's a common mission. Well, they are going to be bridged together by the bridges. So at the end of the day, we're all one big ecosystem. At least we're not separate layer ones, Ryan. We're all in together. That's the worst alignment.

Starting point is 01:11:59 That's the worst alignment you can have. All right. Well, just to tie up DevConnect then, where are your big takeaways from DevConnect? And we promised a little bit of Alpha through Justin Drake conversation. So what did Drake tell you? When merged, David? Don't give us a date.

Starting point is 01:12:14 We were getting beers, right? And we wanted to, we were asking Justin this. And we were joking about, all right, we're going to put all of our empty beers in front of Justin and give him the last full beer. And then we're going to take a picture of Justin. And Justin says, we're going to merge tomorrow. We ended up not doing that, obviously.

Starting point is 01:12:29 But he said a few months. And so the consensus has shifted amongst a very small set of people at this table to sometime to August to October. August to October is the new shelling point of time, question mark. But the core devs were all locked in a room together. Kind of like how you got to lock all the politicians together if you needed them to come up with something. But they are making, they're doing a ton of progress. They're doing all these ghost forks. Again, this is not some sort of like New York main net.

Starting point is 01:13:01 consensus, coin desk consensus conference. Shit is getting done right now at this conference. And you can actually see it. The Bartek's talk for layer two is about here is the checkboxes that the layer twos need to get done. We need to work on this. I want to watch that talk. Yeah, you got it.

Starting point is 01:13:17 You got to watch that. Yes, yes. Yeah. I also had a fantastic talk with a lot of the core teams. Danny Ryan, Dankrad, Preston Van Loon, a few others. Really good talk as well. I'll try and find that and link that in the show notes as well. just so much information being passed around.

Starting point is 01:13:33 So we're all syncing our nodes about what the state of the industry is in so we can progress forward. Again, the vibes in the co-working space, the shelling point where everyone goes to hang out, which is where I'm going next after this, are just fantastic. I'm meeting a ton of new people, also seeing a ton of all my friends. Oh, it's just great, man. That's awesome. How's Sasano doing? Oh, Susano's doing great.

Starting point is 01:13:57 He led the Layer 2 panel. you know, and yeah, it's great to see him, great to hang out. That's awesome, man. Oh, very cool. Yep. Good stuff. Progress gets made when if the ETH people all get together. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of doubters on Twitter right now saying, yeah, you're

Starting point is 01:14:13 just hedging and the merge is never going to happen or if it does happen. It's certainly not happening in 2022. So the only way you can quiet that is to actually ship the thing. Do it. So I think we're getting close. Yeah, Def Connect is a yearly thing. So I'm looking forward to doing this again next year. Ryan, what are you excited about, my man?

Starting point is 01:14:33 We just bought bankless.com, all right? Yes, we did. Yes, we did. So last week it was the trademark. This week we got bankless.com. We'd been on the hunt for this for a while. And, you know, we found the person was selling it, did a private transaction. So that is in the process of getting transfer.

Starting point is 01:14:50 That's not my story, though, okay? Like, that's what's exciting. But my story is about, like, sometimes I like to torture myself. We still have to have a bank account for certain things. So when you buy a domain name, you have to, like, transmit funds to an escrow service, right? So it's all fiat. There's this service called escrow.com. So the only way, David, for us to get money from our fiat bank account, which, again, we have to have for certain things.

Starting point is 01:15:15 I can't pay for this thing with USDC or ETH, for example, is to use our bank account. Okay? And, like, a couple years ago, actually before, you know how Vitalik started Ethereum? because, you know, the joke is his warlock and wow got nerved. Right. Okay. I partially started the bankless newsletter because I was pissed because Bank of America shut down my bank accounts, my business bank accounts.

Starting point is 01:15:40 All right? Like, true story. It's just like kicked me out. Just received a Dear John letter within 30 days. You and all of your assets have to go, bye, bye, see you later. And why? The reason was because I had a cryptocurrency transaction, a withdrawal from Coinbase to my Bank of America account.

Starting point is 01:15:56 Coinbase. and that flagged me. Oh, it must be shady. So booting. So we've had a, for bankless, we've had like a credit union, which are generally more friendly, like the cannabis industry has experienced this. Little banks instead of a big bank. Tiny banks, right? With like, they know their community managers, part of the community, and they don't have these big risk assessment. Anyway, we're trying to transfer funds, wire funds. I have to show up at the credit union in person, present my ID. They ask me, like, what I'm doing with the funds. I'm like just, you know, are you buying property? Yeah, after a fashion,

Starting point is 01:16:27 digital property, it's a domain name, and got that process through. Anyway, what happened is the wire did not get transferred that day. And apparently, this got escalated through the credit union because they looked up bankless and they saw that we were a crypto podcast in the crypto industry. And there were internal meetings and it was deemed risky. And so, yeah, you're just hearing this because you've been in Amsterdam. So I had multiple conversations with like bank managers at the credit union trying to explain what we're doing like we're a podcast we have a subscription service like we're extremely legitimate and they were like but you're issuing a token what's your token i'm like oh you're talking about an nfti because if you are a bankless premium member yes

Starting point is 01:17:15 there is a poet badge that you can get it's an nfti are you familiar with what nfts were and the guy was talking to is just hilarious right because he was like oh i'm totally down with nfts i just I love it. I just have to convince these guys, these other guys, right? You can tell you, like this younger bank manager, I guess, having to talk to

Starting point is 01:17:35 the three to five old guys in the office and convince them that they should not kick us out of our credit union bank. They should actually process. Oh, we almost got unbanked. Oh, totally, dude.

Starting point is 01:17:48 They were this close, right? This close to being flagged. Boomers. And so, okay, that story. right, right. I just, you know, it's not, we're not being super persecuted, whatever, we still have crypto rails. It's just kind of an inconvenience. It's annoying. But it reflects on me that if you have a money in a bank account, you don't actually own the money. Right. You want to move that money out, imagine, because this is what really happens. You ask five guys in suits in some office

Starting point is 01:18:18 somewhere if you can move your own damn money. Please, sir, can I move my money from one place to another? we allowed me to do it? No, because you're in the crypto industry, or no, because we don't like your political perspective or whatever it is, right? So it just drives the point home that this is why we need to go bankless, David. You know, we need the ability to exit the existing system, and we need the freedom to be able to move our funds from one place to another. That is a civil liberty for the digital era for the 21st century and if you have your money in account you don't have those liberties

Starting point is 01:18:57 you don't actually own your money in a bank account you know what the cherry on top of that story is that the escrow service that we were sending the money for could have just been a smart contract I know, dude! Totally! Like this could have been done like that. Smart contract, oh and if it's an ENS domain, boom.

Starting point is 01:19:16 Both the parties deposit done probably for less money too. Inside of 10 minutes, one gas fee, like no five dudes in ties, you know, take time out of their day. In a building. In a physical building with consuming light. I talked to like three branch members. I had to go in person, like say hello. Somebody paper filled out the wire transfer information copying it from digital to it.

Starting point is 01:19:37 Like it's just so inefficient. People consumed gas in their car to get to that building on that day. Like that's taking up space that could have been housing for people. Like, you know, you got to go bankless, right? Like people talk about how much energy like Bitcoin is consuming. What about all the unnecessary ridiculousness of the entire banking industry that could be automated? They also talk about how crypto UX just sucks and it has like, yeah, sure, parts of it. But like, no, that UX sucks.

Starting point is 01:20:04 I just trying to get money from one place to another and I can't do it without talking to like five different people, showing up in person, presenting my ID, arguing my case, almost getting kicked out of my bank account. That sucks. That's bad U. So there was one time I had to make a wire transfer that was like over the limit of like $15,000 or something. And I was not home. I was in San Francisco at the time and I couldn't go into a Wells Fargo branch. And so I called them and say, hey, can we just like ignore this $15,000 limit? Because I got to do it.

Starting point is 01:20:33 I had to be done like that day basically. And they were like, no, like we can't do that. Like in order to do anything about $15,000, we need to send you like a PGP key or something. Like one of those little USB authenticators. and I'm like, okay, but like I need to do this a day, so it's not going to happen fast enough. A PGP key, they wanted to send me a PGP key so I could USB it into my computer

Starting point is 01:20:52 so I could verify my identity. That's just a boomer, hardware wallet. I don't even understand how do they know it's you, who they're sending it to you. Because they send it to my address and then I would have it and they could have like, I don't know, but it's basically a private key.

Starting point is 01:21:10 They're asking me for have a hardware wallet, except it's a PGP key, like Google Auth and a U.S. USB, it's a hardware wallet. They just want me to have a hardware wallet. With extra steps. With extra steps and it's worse. They have to physically mailed to you. Yeah. Oh, it's so broken, dude. It's so broken. It is broken, but you know, you got to use the banking system every once in a while to, uh, to see how far we're coming into like, it always reestablishes the crypto vision for me.

Starting point is 01:21:32 I'm like, oh, yeah, this does suck. Don't give me this crap and tell me like, Tradify is fine as is. Right. Dead end. Yeah, crypto UX definitely has room to improve, but at least you get to do it from the comfort of your own home. Anyway, we're not kicked out of the bank account. Good news is they didn't kick us. They finally processed the wire. Maybe they listened to a bankless podcast in the process. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:21:53 They definitely looked us up. So we still have our credit union. So, you know, we're on the path to going bankless, but we still got that credit union for now. Thank you for taking care of that. We did not get kicked out. Congratulations for getting the bankless.com. Thank you for taking care of that.

Starting point is 01:22:08 Also, the alpha is that the bankless.com website is coming. Not anytime soon. Still got to build it. But Web 3 bankless on the way. We're doing things. On the way. On the way. We're doing the week.

Starting point is 01:22:19 What's the meme of the week? All right. I'm showing it now. Here we go. What do we got? Oh, yeah. Okay, so this is a little bit of a deep cut. But for those I remember, the Constitution Dow, this is a Brooke Lampey who was on team

Starting point is 01:22:33 Constitution Dow when we were submitting our bids to buy the Constitution. And it goes, breaking, Musk retained services of Brooke Lampe from Sotheby's to lead Twitter deal. Not too much of a meme, but yeah. She was actually taking the calls, right? And this was Constitution Dow versus, what's his name, Ken Griffin? Yeah, she represented Constitution Dow in the auction, yeah. Yeah, and Ken Griffin ended up winning. So, yeah, she's become a crypto meme.

Starting point is 01:23:00 And have you been following the Musk thing, acquisition of Twitter? No, I haven't. A little bit, but not really. It's kind of fun. It's like there's poison pills, and there's back and forth with Musk, and what's he going to do? Anyway, that's a fun story. Guys, that's all we have time for right now. David's got to get to some things in Amsterdam. But thanks for hanging with us on the weekly roll-up. As always, none of this has been financial advice.

Starting point is 01:23:21 Bitcoin, eth are risky. So are NFTs. You could definitely lose what you put in, but we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.

Bankless - ROLLUP: Merge Alpha | Optimism Token?! | Ethereum Foundation Report | Coinbase NFT Beta | Beanstalk Exploit

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