Bankless - ROLLUP: Prometheum SEC Psyop Exposed

Starting point is 00:00:00 And they're saying, why can't everyone in crypto be compliant like us? They don't even have a product that anyone's using or works. And meanwhile, David, you have Cracken. You have Coinbase. Actual companies. Demanded by the market. Actual companies have been in the space servicing people in the crypto industry and protecting investors giving them exposure to this asset class for over a decade.

Starting point is 00:00:26 American-based companies, pristine reputation. and the SEC is busy sending them Wells notices. And somehow this guy gets in front of Congress. It just seems a little odd, doesn't it? Bankless Nation, it is the third Friday of June, and it's Friday morning. I said that twice. David, what time is it?

Starting point is 00:00:48 It's the bankless Friday weekly roll-up, Ryan, where we've got the entire weekly news in crypto, which is always an ambitious endeavor, which is why I'm on my third coffee. How are you doing? I drank a pot this morning, so I haven't gone to the second pie yet. Just a pot. You know, like a pot can be a different size, you know, this is probably like...

Starting point is 00:01:06 A pot is unequivocally a large size. All right. Topics of the week. Uniswop v4. We actually have some crypto news this week. So you got uniswop v4 announced this week and why I'm calling it the hook-centric roadmap. Hook-centric roadmap. Yes.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Dude-strap. Dude-to-crap. I am forcing it. I am forcing the topic. All right. And while I'm very, very happy that all this crypto news has happened, In addition to Uniswap, we have EigenLayer going live. We have the Polygon Roadmap Update.

Starting point is 00:01:36 We have BlackRock that wants a Bitcoin ETF. These are all great news. And half of this goddamn weekly roll-up is going to be dedicated to the SEC shenanigans, which I'm sad to say, but they were extra shenanaginny this week. Janegany is putting it lightly. We love you, SEC. I don't know what's going on, man, but it seemed like the SEC may have put a fed plant in front of Congress.

Starting point is 00:02:02 All right, that sounds like conspiracy tinfoil hat stuff, but we're going to drop the details on that, and you guys can decide for yourself what is going on. Also, the Heinemann emails were released. This is the ripple case. It kind of exposes the SEC was sort of two-faced with respect to its stance on whether ETH is a security or not. It really undermines the SEC's current words

Starting point is 00:02:22 with the SEC's previous words. It's shenanigans. The court ordered the SEC to not edit or change anything about historical statements out of fear that it might do that. Yeah, the fact that you have to say that as the court, right? Right. Wow. Okay.

Starting point is 00:02:37 We got some shenanigans to deal with, but. Lots of shenanigans. And also, Warren Davidson is fed up with the SEC's shenanigans. And he has proposed the SEC Stabilization Act, aka hashtag fire Gary Gensler and completely rebuild the SEC. That's literally, that was his hashtag, fire Gary Gensler. Fire Gary Gensler. Wow.

Starting point is 00:02:58 It sounds like something you would tweet out, David. Not me, of course. I've tweeted out a little bit worse than that. I still want Gary. I still want Gary on this podcast, okay? He is not coming on this podcast. I would welcome him, though. And I know you would too.

Starting point is 00:03:11 We would have a productive conversation, Gary Gensler, if you're listening. Come on the podcast to talk a little bit. We would have a productive words for him to hear. I don't know if we would get them back. Anyways. Speaking of productive, you know what's really productive is having a smart contract with a good security, making sure it's audited. Our friends and sponsors at CyFron,

Starting point is 00:03:30 want to let you know that they are some world-class smart contract auditors. Okay, so if you're building a protocol, Sifrin wants to make sure your code is secure and using the most modern tooling and best practices available. You know Patrick from the Sifron team, he's a YouTube content creator too, where he talks about solidity, blockchain development, and smart contracts.

Starting point is 00:03:54 This is a lot of views on this content, all right? Yeah, yeah. He's been doing this for apparently like five, three years, Every, yeah, he's released a course every single year with a combined five million views, which, I mean, five million views. It isn't impressive. That's crazy. The five million views of onboarding solidity devs into Web3. That's a lot of onboarding work. Yeah. And so not only can Seifrin audit your smart contract. It can also teach you how to be a good secure solidity dev. Because if you have 27 hours this bear market, because I'm sure you do is what we call the ball, the bear, the boar market. You can go from zero to 60 using Seifrin. There you go. Well, speaking of very, education. Why don't you educate us on the crypto markets today. David, let's, uh, it's a bad, bad lesson this week. Oh, bad lesson. Yes. Things go down. Everything, things go down. The color is red, blood in the streets. Bitcoin started the week at $26,700, down six and a half

Starting point is 00:04:44 percent down to $25,000. I've seen worse. When, when, when, when, oh, Bitcoin down six point five percent is not great. That is not great. I've seen worse though. Ether, uh, down almost double. Ooh, now that's starting the week at 1850, ending the week at 1650. I do not like 37 is where we are right now. Double digit percentage down feels bad. Not great. Not great. Yeah, the ratio of course

Starting point is 00:05:07 takes a beating down 5.5%. That was a lot for the ratio. You tell me why? Why is the ratio done? No, no, no. Why are we dropping? Like what happened this week? I totally think that this price action could have totally happened in a vacuum.

Starting point is 00:05:24 We were talking about that mid-bear market high that we have recently been to that kind of matches where we were in 2019 if you're into that kind of voodoo stuff. And then also at the same time, Gary Gensler told us that basically crypto assets, three through 15 on the crypto market cap

Starting point is 00:05:43 are all securities. And so I think that has also set in as well. The mood is bad. And then, like, things become real when the price drops. I remember talking to you about this. Remember in March of 2020, early March? March. Everyone was talking about COVID, but no one was taking it seriously. And then the COVID dump day happened. And like the trad market dumped, crypto markets dumped. And then everyone started

Starting point is 00:06:09 taking COVID extremely seriously after the markets reacted. I think that's kind of what's happening with the crypto securities is like for the first couple days, it was like, oh, Gary, just sue in Coinbase and finance. And now we're like, oh, we're going to fight back. We're going to fight back. Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, shit, this is going to be bad. And I think that's, I think that's what that was. I mean, it could take, it could take a while for the U.S. to turn course on this, right? This is doing some damage, I would say, in crypto right now. So I think you might be right about that. It's the market sort of realizing coming to terms, yeah, coming to terms of the fact that the U.S. regulatory environment might look ugly for some time. We're still about a trillion,

Starting point is 00:06:48 though, in terms of market cap. So there's that. One point zero five. David, should we go downmarket a little bit and take a look at the other assets besides Bitcoin and Ether. So this is one of my favorite, it's not a chart exactly, but kind of like a metric to look at. Percent down from all time high. Just to recap where we are. Just to really just be masochistic. Just because we want to hate ourselves this week for just a second. And we'll bring some hope near the end of this episode. Bitcoin price down from all time high about 64% Ether price down 66%. By the way, those on themselves, not too bad.

Starting point is 00:07:30 Those could be worse. And they have been worse. Which is insane to say. 66, not that bad. It's not that bad. I mean, this just feels like a flesh wound to me. But then we go down market and we look at some of the non-Eath, non-Bitcoin tokens.

Starting point is 00:07:44 XRP down 85%. Interestingly, up 30% on, I believe, I don't know, the day or something. year to date. Year to date. Okay, that's year to date. So up on the year, which is interesting, but down 85%. Cardano, down 91%. Dogecoin down 91%.

Starting point is 00:08:03 Salonah, down 94%. Pocod, down 92%. There's definitely some pain down market. You even get to some of the, like the D5 blue chips. Uniswap, down 90%. Wow. Still a lot of pain, a lot of blood in this market, particularly when you get outside of Bitcoin and Ether. Yeah, the alt-coin market cap has been absolutely pummeled.

Starting point is 00:08:27 Holding our alts in a bear market has proved to be very dangerous. And that was before Gary deemed them to be securities. So here we are. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Gary. Thanks, Gary. I've so protected. You know, something we actually haven't talked about in a while that was in the market news this week, Ryan. What's that? Remember the word inflation? Oh, yeah. Remember the word raising or lowering or pausing interest rates? Yeah. Something happened this week. What happened?

Starting point is 00:08:53 The Fed had a announcement, basically. So the FMC had their meeting, of course, where they tell us what they're going to do with interest rates. And you know what they did, David? Tell me. Nothing. They decided to skip. But that's news. That's news.

Starting point is 00:09:07 That's news that they decided to do nothing. That is actually big news that they decided to do nothing. This is kind of a skip the rate hike type of announcement. a wait and see approach. They're holding at 5%. And the reason that's notable that this breather is notable is this is the first time

Starting point is 00:09:26 they haven't raised of the last 10 times. So we've had 10 consecutive increases that stretch all the way back to March 2022. The Fed basically capitulated at that point in time. They said, ah, yeah, inflation.

Starting point is 00:09:40 Inflation is not transient? It's a thing. It's not transient. It's getting out of hand. They had the previous summer in summer of 2021 been saying, don't worry about inflation.

Starting point is 00:09:49 It's transient. Don't worry about it. They had been kind of late to the game to start increasing rates. But then they did. And they did so 10 times all the way up to 5%. Here we are.

Starting point is 00:09:57 They're taking a break this particular time. And why? It's because the Fed says inflation appears to be easing and they want to assess whether they've already raised enough. And I will say, inflation is at about 4%

Starting point is 00:10:13 at this point in time. So it's definitely off of the highs. Seems low. actually. That's a low number. All things considered. Look at this chart, David. What are you seeing in this chart here? This is CPI. Yeah, I am seeing a chart come down to a, what was previously considered high, but in recent terms can now be considered very low. So, I mean, in 2022, inflation got up to 9%.

Starting point is 00:10:37 It got in previous years, 2017, it gets to 3%. In late 2018, it gets to 3% again. It almost gets back to 3% at the start of 20%. 2020. And now we're down to 4%. And so it feels like we are in range of historic levels and we are down from 9%. So like it looks good. It is a trailing indicator. So let's remember that. Okay. This is all kind of past data. So we're not looking at kind of the current month inflation. But yeah, annualized at 4% not too bad. Now, keep in mind, the Fed's target is 2%. So the Fed is basically saying, yeah, it's a wait and see. But right now for this time, but we expect to continue. continue raising rates later in the year. And I think the market kind of believes that. But what's interesting about this is the stock market, equities, risk-on type assets, they don't really know. I feel like they're in this undecided territory. Is it like a bull?

Starting point is 00:11:32 Is it a bear? We don't know. And so on this news, you'd think a pause would be good news for stocks. Stock straighted like a little up, but basically flat. I think the market's trying to figure out what's going to happen next and hasn't quite decided on that. that yet. I wonder if the trad markets forgot, I mean, I'm just speaking for myself, I've completely forgot about this whole like inflation interest rates phenomenon for the last quarter. Like this is, this is once again like, oh yeah. Have you forgotten about the bank runs? Do you remember those? I do remember those. That was like, that was almost a quarter ago. Yeah. It seems like, but yeah, SEC is just completely dominated that. I wonder if the trad markets are hanging on tooth and nail to

Starting point is 00:12:11 inflation like we once were. It just doesn't feel like people care anymore. Yeah. My, my, my being naive here? I don't know. We've got a lot of interesting indicators in the economy right now. So we've got inflation that's about 4%. Unemployment actually isn't so bad right now. 3.7% at this point in time, right? We haven't seen the kind of the unemployment that you might see if we're creeping toward a recession. That said, there's like just some weirdness in the market. I mean, go ask a millennial about who's trying to buy a house, how they feel about the current economy. not too good. And so there's a lot of weirdness going on,

Starting point is 00:12:49 and I think the market's just trying to figure out where this is going. So that's the Fed, David. What do we got to talk about in the rest of this episode? Oh, my God. So we're going to probably have to prepare the bankless station for like 30 plus minutes of SEC shenanigans. It's a lot of shenanigans. There's a lot of shenanigans.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Like we said, there's the Hinman emails. There's this Walmart SBF person that SEC loves to parade in front of Congress, allegedly. So who the hell is Aaron Kaplan and Prometheum? And then the SEC also wants 120 days to respond to Coinbase. We got the responses from Polygon and to Lana about being a security or not. Surprise, they don't think they're a security. All of these things and more, including the SEC Stabilization Act, where we're going to try and fire Gary Gensler. All of this and more. But first, I'm going to talk about these fantastic sponsors that makes the show possible.

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Starting point is 00:14:53 implements multi-party computation nodes, layer 1 settlement execution is shortened from seven days to as low as just one or two. Mantle is the first layer two built by a Dow and is backed by one of the biggest Dow treasuries in the world. Bit Dow. Mantle already has subcommunities from around Web3 onboarded to help the growth of Mantle, like Game 7 for Web3 gaming, or or Edu Dow for the World of D-Sai, and Bybit for TVL, liquidity, and on-ramps. Check out Mantle at mantle.xyZ and follow them on Twitter at ZeroX Mantle. All right, guys, the SEC shenanigans, we're going to go through them. The first one, one of the most bizarre things I've seen in crypto, it's kind of inexplicable.

Starting point is 00:15:31 And not exactly sure what is going on, but let's go through some facts. This is, I guess, a take from me of what it looks like. I'm not saying this is what it is because we don't know for sure. This is what it looks like. I think Gensler and Warren's anti-Crypto Army may have actually rubber-stamped a shitty ATS, quasi-scam, Alt 1 in order to hold up to Congress as an example of a compliant crypto exchange. But the work quality here is 2017-era ICO scam laughable. That's what I tweeted. And I said, this has got to be rock bottom. David, this tweet thread from Matt Walsh gets into the story. It's almost an investigative journalist type story. And what I mean, if this is true, if this is what it looks like,

Starting point is 00:16:12 like, I think this is rock bottom for the SEC. This can not be a real story. All right, let's get into it. So this is Matt Walsh in the tweet thread. Do you want to kick this off for us? Yeah, so Matt Walsh, I remember him actually talking about this on his On the Bring podcast that he does with Nick Carter every last week. So he was talking about how weird this was last week.

Starting point is 00:16:34 And then apparently since then it's gotten even weirder, which is how he starts this tweet thread. He goes, has anyone actually looked into this beyond bizarre? Last month, in the midst of the SEC bringing cases on Coinbase and Gemini and giving the stiff arm to Robin Hood and others, Prometheum gets approval for a first-of-its-kind special-purpose broker-dealer for digital asset securities. Then Prometheum CEO somehow gets a seat in front of Congress yesterday and starts reading off pre-written notes with clearly coordinated narratives with Democratic members of Congress or the SEC. And so if you click into this, we won't play this clip because it's like a long clip. But there is a section where a Democratic member of Congress, Ms. Villasquez, is asking questions that you, like, this is pretty common. I think we're like staffers will underhand questions to the congressman or women.

Starting point is 00:17:28 This congresswoman clearly does not understand the question. She is reading the question. And you can tell because, like, you know, crypto people know when you are not talking crypto language. That's very obvious. scripted question which she asks Adam the CEO of Prometheum and then as soon as the question ends he looks down at his notes and gives a very scripted answer let's just play the whole thing is scripted here's here's the here's the answer from erin system is the separation of banking and commercial activity the republican-led stable coin legislation we are discussing here today

Starting point is 00:18:03 seems to fail to recognize this separation for stable coin issuers this would allow non-commercial businesses to own a stable coin issuer can you explain the harm to both consumers and perhaps financial stability that could arise from failing to clearly define this separation consolidation of consumer and banking activities and reading from his notes conflicts of interest and potential systemic risk essentially a lack of strong frameworks with properly regulatory oversight for the entities involved, particularly when they're commingling consumer and financial-based activities, presents additional levels of conflict and potential exposure to the underlying

Starting point is 00:18:49 customers either on the consumer side or on the financial side. Man, God, that is so cringe. It just sounds like it's like Gary Gensler's like son, like giving these words. It's definitely part of the Gary Gensler fan club. Stump speech. Yeah, stump speech. And there's some interesting conflicts of interest here. You should go on with Matt Walsh's thread here.

Starting point is 00:19:10 Okay, so Matt Wallace goes, as Rodrigo points out, Rodrigo does legal and policy a paradigm. This ATS will absolutely not work unless the projects first register the tokens with the SEC. And there are no tokens currently registered with the SEC because the regime is not viable for public blockchain networks. And so you know how Gary Gensler is always like some projects have come in and registered? Yep. Why not the rest of the industry?

Starting point is 00:19:34 Yeah, you guys have done it. All bad actors and scammers. Some people have come in and registered, right? It's totally possible because some people have done it. Apparently, it's this Prometheum thing. The one that has done it. Right? And so Prometheum is like, okay, now that Gary Gensler and the SEC has deemed Solana and

Starting point is 00:19:53 Maddic and Filecoin and XRP2B securities, great. We have this Alt-Layer 1 ATS blockchain exchange for you to trade your crypto securities on in a compliant manner. The point is that no, it's like Solana Polygon, they don't want to trade on these platforms because they are decentralized global crypto networks. And they can't do that because of that is against the whole entire point of the whole entire thing we're doing. An ATS.

Starting point is 00:20:23 So what is an ATS? This was a kind of an idea that was very much popularized in 2017. It's interesting. We'll get to this part of the story. But this Prometheum thing seems like a, 2017 era like almost ICO token launch it's certainly a narrative and it has its roots there which will get to you in a second but could you define what an ATS is for people who haven't ever heard that term yeah so this actually goes back to the world that I was in in 2018 I was I was

Starting point is 00:20:51 in I worked for a security token company so we were trying to figure out how to issue security tokens how do you do that you do you do your token issuance and trading on an ATS an alternative trading system, which is a thing that exists before crypto, inside of crypto. And then once everyone realized that the ICO mania was actually like selling unregistered securities, every like ICO agency like stopped and started pivoting to a security token company because we were like selling unregistered securities. And so like there became this like rush, this gold rush towards ATSs. So like T0 was one of these startups. There were there were, I can't remember all of them. I wrote blog posts about this. There was like five or six startups. I had to do marketing

Starting point is 00:21:32 research. No product market fit for any of these. No, right, because everyone wanted to issue their tokens in a decentralized public way. But also because an ATS system, right? It's Walde-Garden. It's K-YC exchange. Not only K-YC also, it's accredited investor loss. So if it's not a publicly traded company that would be traded in the S&P or NASDAQ, right, if it's kind of like some sort of private placement, then you have accredited investor loss. Basically, you have to have over a million dollars net worth in order to actually access this stuff and use it. It's just a very small niche market that nobody wants, nobody's going to use. It's the reason it's never taken off. No one in crypto wants this. But here's this guy who's like, I came in with Gary Gensler. I met in his office,

Starting point is 00:22:15 like he's inviting everyone and I get my ATS license. And this is, we are a compliant exchange. And the rest of crypto is noncompliant. You should just do what I did. And it seems like it is a plant. It seems like it is a setup. It really does. It seems like this guy works for the Fed in some capacity or has some hidden incentive here because this project is so bizarre. This guy looks like a, can we go to the Laurishin clip and play that clip? Yeah, okay. This guy looks like a oil slicked back suit.

Starting point is 00:22:47 This is, this is, this is from a podcast that Lorishin did with Aaron Kaplan. I believe that since the ICO in 2015, Ethereum has been an investment contract. And there is no legal precedent where a security, meaning an investment contract that therefore is a security, morphs into a non-security. There's been sort of ideas of sufficiently decentralized, posited out there, but they're not really based in legal precedent. So once a security, always a security under the legal precedence that exists. And as such, while we're not announcing anything at this current time, as Chairman Gensler has noted, and I'll sound like a broken record, the overwhelmed majority of digital assets,

Starting point is 00:23:32 basically everything besides for Bitcoin is a investment contract and therefore a security. The whole point about crypto is that it is unprecedented. I think that applying laws from 1933 and 34 before the stapler was invented to this new asset class in digital assets to crypto currency is unworkable. It doesn't work. And Aaron Kaplan is not admitting that. So basically the things he said with Laura Shin on her podcast, he reiterated the exact same thing in front of Congress. He said, Gensler is right. Basically, the SEC is right. Crypto securities laws are already clear. We don't need new laws. Everything but Bitcoin is a security. It's possible to be a compliant exchange. Just look at Prometheum and all the success that we've had being a compliant exchange. Do you know, if it was just that, that would be weird enough. It does.

Starting point is 00:24:28 an end there, though, David. That is one half of the story. That is the tip of the iceberg. Okay. So it gets even more interesting. Remember you were talking about the 2017 narrative around ATSs? Very short-lived gold rush for ATSs, crypto ATSs. Yep. Apparently Prometheum actually got their start right there in 2017. They got their reg A-plus license. They aimed to raise $50 million there. So that's where Prometheum actually started. The reason it sounds like a 2017 ICO kind of scam narrative it because it kind of was a little bit they were stacked though when it came to kind of former insiders government insiders people from the new york stock exchange people from finra people from the cboes they're very plugged in oh

Starting point is 00:25:17 their c oo from the SEC that's quite interesting and then what happened david is they went dormant for a period of time okay so they went silent for years until about even though they had this was their roadmap is what they were planning to do you know they had a genesis block and everything this was a court of blockchain ats of course so you start in 2017 by 2019 you have your genesis block issued with your fantastic ATS system all right so they go quiet for a few years and now they're suddenly back on the scene it also turns out david they are funded by some very interesting What does this tweet from Adam Cochran say? Now, this is where Matt Walsh and Adam Cochran turn into investigative journalists,

Starting point is 00:26:06 and there's just a lot to unpack here. I'm not the one to do it, but I'll just summarize some of their findings. Their fundraise was done with this affiliate from China called Wang Jang. Wang Jang. Sorry, I don't know how to pronounce this. A purported CCP affiliate. Okay, great. So the ties to China.

Starting point is 00:26:24 They raised $48 million without a product, hired former SEC and FINRA people. They paid $1.5 million to this thing called Network One Financial Securities, which has a very dubious compliance record for people who care about these things. But the point is, is like, the big thing about Network One Financial, do you remember when Long Island Ice Tea, you know, those beloved liked iced teas that, and shout out Defi Dave, who always wears this shirt? In 2017, they changed their stock, their stock ticker and company names. to Long Island blockchain, just to pump the stock price? Yeah, so that was actually done by Network 1 financial.

Starting point is 00:27:05 Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Those guys. And so, yeah, the IST company. And then they also had another offering that was another blockchain pivot that the SEC charge for fraud. So, like, being connected to these people, not great. Like, and if you scroll up, you'll see, like, the, again, for people who care about compliance stuff, they have 23 disclosure events of things that just, like, aren't great.

Starting point is 00:27:28 marks on their record. So it's just like, it's just not, it's just not pretty. It's just like not a, there's not a cool. So that's what's so weird about this is suddenly they're just back and now in front of Congress, back in front of Congress. And they're saying, we just got this ATS license and they're simping for the SEC and they're saying, why can't everyone in crypto be compliant like us? They don't even have a product that anyone's using or works.

Starting point is 00:27:55 And meanwhile, David, you have Cracken. You have Coinbase. Actual companies. Demanded by the market. Actual companies have been in the space servicing people in the crypto industry and protecting investors, giving them exposure to this asset class for over a decade. American-based companies, pristine reputations, and the SEC is busy sending them Wells notices. And somehow this guy gets in front of Congress. It just seems a little odd, doesn't it?

Starting point is 00:28:28 It really, it's just weird. It's just very weird. Adam Cochran, I think, summed it up nicely with these three possible answers. So why the hell this is happening? One, these are plants who have been given a sweet regulatory deal in exchange, in exchange for engaging in the way the SEC wanted them to, just like how Gary was working with SPF. So there's precedent for that conclusion.

Starting point is 00:28:47 Two, these guys are using their SEC and FINRA connections to push an agenda to get certain assets deemed securities for them to be the only approved player to capture the market. Bold. and three, these guys are grifters who have been raising money from scratchy sources and for years have been twisting and will continue to grift.

Starting point is 00:29:05 So, aka, they're grifters. So either grifters, I think it's all three. It's all three of them. Or plants. And maybe it's some combination of all three. Very weird.

Starting point is 00:29:17 Again, who knows? Maybe the SEC, maybe Gensler had absolutely nothing to do with this. It just seems like something that the, Elizabeth Warren anti-crypto army is behind. I don't know why it just seems like...

Starting point is 00:29:31 The scripted questions and scripted answers thing is like, it's hard to look beyond that. And on top of that, that is the first of a series of shenanigans that we've uncovered this week. Shadanagan number two, more hypocrisy. Talk about Hinman's emails, David. What are we looking at here? So this came out of the Ripple case.

Starting point is 00:29:49 So Ripple has been in a fight with the SEC for a very long time. The SEC deemed Ripple to be a security forever ago. exchanges like Coinbase and Cracken, like, delisted Ripple, like, because they were like, all right, we don't want to fight that fight. So, like, Ripple has been having their own fight with the SEC. As a part of that fight, a bunch of documents get released from the SEC that came from a famous speech that Bill Hinman in June of 2018 came and said, where he said, ether at the time of sale was perhaps a security, but in its current shape and form,

Starting point is 00:30:19 when it is being traded on on a dexas or being traded on Coinbase or or or whatever, is not a security then. And who is Bill Hinman? Remind people. Bill Hinman was a director of the SEC. He was an SEC official at the time in 2018. So this is an SEC person making the statement. Gary Gunsler and the current SEC administration have said that Bill Hinman's statements

Starting point is 00:30:42 were his actions as an individual. Just his own personal opinion. His own personal opinion doesn't reflect the opinions of the SEC. And Bill Hinman said, like, perhaps the investment contract of Ether at the pre-sale, perhaps that wasn't a security, but Ether, as it currently stands, being traded in the public market is not a security. And so that was a statement from Bill Hinman. Can I read his exact statement? Sure.

Starting point is 00:31:06 Yeah. Hinman said this. And putting aside the fundraising that accompanied the creation of Ether, based on my understanding of the present state of Ether, again, this is 2018. The Ethereum Network and its decentralized structure, current offers, and sales of Ether are not securities transactions. That is the exact statement. So the crypto industry was very excited saying, hey, the SEC's finally given us clarity.

Starting point is 00:31:28 Here's a very clear pre-written script saying ether is not a security in a speech from a senior SEC official. And you're saying what Gary Gensler and the SEC have since said is, oh, no, that was just his personal opinion. Exactly. And all of this, all of this is not from the documents from the SEP, from the Ripple case. Here's what is revealed from the Ripple case. So here's an email of SEC officials, like working together to come to consensus about what Bill Hinn

Starting point is 00:31:54 men ought to say. And so Bill Henman put forth in the emails, put forth his speech that he will give and he asked for comments from other SEC officials. And they say, as written, the language remains vague as to whether ETH is a security. If you want to make an affirmative statement that is not a security, the language could be stronger, as in just say it. If you don't want to take an affirmative stance, we suggest using language similar to what you use for Bitcoin, read the disclosure regime to make it more consistent. That's what one person said. Here's what the second person said, we thought you were going to say that you don't believe ETH is a security.

Starting point is 00:32:27 We think that that message is a helpful message. This statement, on the other hand, appears to likely create more confusion about the status of Eith. To the extent that you don't say ETH is not a security, please consider confirming the policy rationale to the disclosure regime of the federal securities laws as you did with respect to Bitcoin earlier in the paragraph, basically saying, hey, Bill, what do you want to do? Do you want to say that ETH is not a security?

Starting point is 00:32:48 Because just say it. And then Bill, then later made this speech. and then just said it. Just said it. And then in an email, Haman responded and said the language around Ether would be used if we are all in agreement. So he's like, okay, so guys,

Starting point is 00:33:02 we're agreeing to say that ETH isn't a security here. And then he made the speech, which said that ETHER wasn't a security. And now these Ripple docs are revealed to show that it makes it really hard for Gary Gensler and the current SEC administration to say that Bill Hinman was acting of his own accord because there's emails of the SEC saying like,

Starting point is 00:33:20 hey, we're all in agreement about what we're going to say here, right? David, this just makes it so obvious that the SEC, the current leadership, the SEC, changed its mind. Right. Changed things around. Yeah. Had previously said ether was not a security in 2018 and now want to retract that and take that back.

Starting point is 00:33:41 Yep. Yep. Very clear. And so this is why in the court, the judge for the Ripple case was like, hey, the SECs are not allowed to like edit its previous date. Not it's not like changing on the record as the SEC is not allowed to go say but what we really meant was This and so the the court is sealing Bill Hinman statements as Real statements that the SEC cannot say like that's not what we meant seems fair because right so they they are not allowed to go Yes. E basically no takes backsies is how I was saying is that is is what the the court said no takes backsies on the Bill Hinman thing is what that's this that's a great summary actually No takes backses this is this is this is

Starting point is 00:34:22 Nick Carter saying when this came out, the day has barely started and already a big setback for the SEC. They argued that Hinman was just a loose cannon going off in a zone, clear now that he got sign off from the highest levels. Great news overall. It comes to a court system holding our regulators responsible. That is a good thing. All right. So that's the second shenanigan that they find themselves in. Oh, and XRP is up on the news.

Starting point is 00:34:49 Interestingly, XRP is the only coin in the top 20. that was green because XRP is like, oh, you guys are all getting sued as securities too. Welcome. Welcome. Oh, wow. All right. No clarity. Here we go.

Starting point is 00:35:03 Last thing, real quick. What are they doing with this Coinbase thing? Not quite the last thing. We got more shenanigans up to this. So this is shenanigans number three. The SEC wants to 120 days to respond to Coinbase's petition. So one, here is Paul Greywell's summary of the SEC's, filing to the response last week in the Third Circuit Court.

Starting point is 00:35:25 This has been the fight for clarity that Coinbase is like, hey, can a court please make the SEC tell us whether they're going to make rules or not? And the SEC response to that was like, we want 120 days. And so Paul just summarizes four main points here saying that the SEC repeats the fallacy that they haven't made any decision on new crypto rules. Two, they refuse to commit to any deadline despite the court's explicit order. three instead of and three they three instead they anticipate and making a recommendation in 120 days and four they ignore the clear statements of the chair that confirm that they have no issue to

Starting point is 00:36:04 they have no intent to issue new rules and instead conflate the evidence of a decision those statements provide with an argument that the statements are themselves a decision blah blah blah blah blah they're just throwing i this is called i summarize this and basically the SEC just told us to go f ourselves yeah this is called stonewalling Yeah. They're not going to do it. No, you know, sorry. Like, they're just not going to play ball with Coinbase,

Starting point is 00:36:25 not going to provide any clarity to the industry. And David, two weeks ago, do you remember in those complaints filed with courts against finance and Coinbase, they just called a whole bunch of crypto assets securities, including tokens like Maddoch, which is the token behind Polygon, tokens like a soul, which is the token behind Solana. And the token projects themselves have fired back. responding. What are we looking at here? So this is a statement from Polygon. We also have a statement from Solana. Both of them basically say the same thing. It's like they disagree with the characterization

Starting point is 00:36:58 of them as a security. Polygon said that they sold Polygon outside the U.S., blah, blah, blah, blah, Sala will say the same thing. Here's a, here's a quote from the Salana article that I really like. Here's from a Salana developer in a hacker house in New York City. Actually, I bet's just the one that's not too far away from me. The hacker said, I don't think any developers give a shit. soul being a security doesn't really affect anyone building on top of Solana, which is just great cypherpunk fashion. The terrible thing, Ryan, is that Solana, Polygon, Filecoin, all these tokens that were deemed to be securities are not defendants. They are collateral damage where the defendants are Binance and Coinbase. And so they don't even get to have a seat in the court, in the hearing.

Starting point is 00:37:39 Really? Because they are not the defendant. They are just being charged with being a security as like collateral damage inside of the suit between Coinbase and Blindance and the SEC. But can they be deemed to security without fighting that out with these projects in court? I don't know. But that's, yeah. Well, let me ask you what you think about that. So the Slana Hacker House guy said, I don't think developers give a shit. Okay, that's true.

Starting point is 00:38:02 However, look, Seoul is down 94%. I mean, like there's FDX. There's all sorts of other reasons why. I might say it's all of this. It also had an insane 2021. Yeah, but this sure didn't help. Okay, and so it does impact the economic security of these alternative layer ones, right? I mean, if all of these tokens are deemed securities in the U.S., but here's the thing,

Starting point is 00:38:23 I think the rest of the world will continue to march on. Gary Gensler is not the emperor of the world. And while he has some networks are bigger than Gary. Robin Hood, though, delisting. So, Bo, Cardano, Polygon, Solana. You're the only ones de-listing. listing Robin Hood. It's unfortunate.

Starting point is 00:38:44 You're the only ones doing this. It's unfortunate. It would be nice if they joined the battle and fought the good fight like cracking, Coinbase, and others are doing because we need all the ammo that we can get. Here's a tweet from Ryan Selkis. This is what SEC protection

Starting point is 00:38:58 looks like and he basically, he's showing the Missouri chart that we were showing up earlier where everything is down. Blood. Yeah, this is when, yeah, this is when the token's dumped. So, yeah, it's not great. It's not great. He says, aren't you grateful your tax dollars go to Gary Gensler? who already made $100 million from Goldman Sachs.

Starting point is 00:39:15 I hate the fact that I pay his salary. I hate that. I hate that so much. So he can pull up the ladder behind himself and screw you. Yeah. Okay, so we are not, we have two more sections of SEC shenanigans. Oh, God. Can we play the clip of Gary Gensler in 2018?

Starting point is 00:39:28 Oh, yeah, this is a great clip. Yeah, here we go. This is Gary Gensler. I love 2018, Gary, by the way. Over 70% of the crypto market is Bitcoin, Ether, light coin, Bitcoin, cash. Why did I name those four? They're not securities. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Starting point is 00:39:47 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's play that back. Let's play that back. Those four, they're not securities. Oh, Gary Gensler. I love 2018 Gary Gensler. Are she such a great guy? Looks like him.

Starting point is 00:40:03 Could be deep fake, David. I don't know. Yeah. You can't trust these days. My, how things have changed, though. This is your take. Me earlier. I want Gary Gensler out of office.

Starting point is 00:40:15 Me now. I want Gary Gensler in prison. Well, he's not going to come on the podcast now, David. Thanks a lot. I have spoken. Why do you feel this way? Because Gary is one thing to be an incompetent regulator, but Gary has shown to be competent and to have positions and stances in 2018,

Starting point is 00:40:39 and he has shown to understand crypto networks. he has shown to be a competent functioning person who deeply understands this crypto industry and now he's as far as I can tell exclusively playing the political game of climbing up ladders of power and it is a single player PVE game that Gary is playing inside of a world of people of humans Gary we live in a society you do not get to treat

Starting point is 00:41:06 the rest of humans as your environment that you are PVEing but that is what he is doing. But you said something, you said something stronger. You said you want Gary Gensler in prison, all right? He is using the authority of a public office to elevate himself and tear down an entire industry

Starting point is 00:41:25 of hundreds of thousands of people. He is misusing the authority given to him by his role for his own self-gain. There's some law. I don't, there's probably some law out there. Find it. We can find it. He is doing something against the people.

Starting point is 00:41:43 This is Gary Gensler versus the people. I think what you're reacting to here, and of course, like before someone goes to, gets prosecuted or there's criminal charges, there has to be evidence of criminality, right? So just because you don't like somebody, it doesn't mean like, I don't like this guy. Go to prison.

Starting point is 00:42:01 You're going to prison. I think that if you looked hard, there would be evidence of corruption here. And I think that's what you are reacting to so strongly. It's not just an abdication of responsibility, of shirking your duties and playing a self-interested games. Like, lots of people do that. CEOs do that. There's tons of psychopaths in corporations and government.

Starting point is 00:42:24 I think that there is actual corruption that could be going on here. And if we find evidence of that, that is a reason to hashtag fire Gary Gensler. That's where we're going next. I will settle for a firing of Gary Gensler. This is Warren Davidson here. Today I filed the SEC Stabilization Act. SEC stabilization. This is not stable coins here.

Starting point is 00:42:47 We're trying to stabilize. Why? Because it's gotten volatile, I guess. Today I filed the SEC Stabilization Act to restructure the SEC and hashtag fire Gary Gensler. He put it in hashtags because you know he wants it to trend, right? Right, right. Yes.

Starting point is 00:43:01 Here you goes. U.S. capital markets must be protected from tyrannical chairman, including the current one. It's time for real reform and to fire. Gary Gensler as chair of the SEC. Warren Davidson is a crypto-friendly congressman, I believe. I often see his name associated with Tom Emmer, who we've had on the podcast before, who I believe is saying something similar. Him and Tom Emmer have co-written that very progressive, productive crypto bill that

Starting point is 00:43:30 Jake Chravinsky and other crypto lawyers are like, big thumbs up. Which one's that? Do you guys talk about that last week? The digital asset market structure bill. Ah, right. And now they've got a second bill to fire Gary Gensler. Do you think this is actually like going to get legs? You know, I don't know how bills like these work.

Starting point is 00:43:46 Or is this just kind of a protest bill? If the Republicans win the 2024 election, then big, big time. Yeah. But I mean, Gary is out anyway. In 2025. Yeah, you're right. He is out. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:58 Okay. That's the SEC. We're done with the SEC shenanigans for this week anyway. My question to you is, do we have to start worrying about the CFTC? Let's see FTC. All right. Quickly before we get there, here's a very quick.

Starting point is 00:44:11 Yeah. This is why this is a, this is a Democrat versus Republican issue. Yeah. This is a great tweet from Nick Boney, uh, Tomeyno. The Biden administration's crypto timeline.

Starting point is 00:44:20 First, Sam Bankman-Fried is the second largest donor to Biden's presidential campaign. Second, Biden at points Gary Gensler as chairman of the SEC. Third, Gary Gensler host meetings with SBF and FTX with no action letter discussed. Next, after winning favor with the CEC, the C, FTC, F-X is exposed. is the largest fraud in history by the crypto community. And last, the SEC attacks sound legal businesses

Starting point is 00:44:43 that have been attempting to work in good faith with regulators for over a decade. Coinbase and Cracken. I sent this tweet to my very Democrat family and I got crickets back. Well, the problem is, look, I don't think that corruption is a right versus left, Democrat versus Republican issue.

Starting point is 00:44:59 It's just corruption. And that's what this smells like. And that's what it looks like. And wherever it is, it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, you should be in favor of getting corruption out of government. It's certainly looking like it. Can we turn to the CFTC for a corruption-free regulation?

Starting point is 00:45:18 Are they friends of crypto? It's also not great. Okay, so this is the CFTC versus Uki Dow. This is something that a lot of the legal minds in the crypto space have been paying attention to as the thing to pay attention to because what is being judged over here, what is being ruled, is the liability of Dow members of actions of the Dow. So Uki-Dau, formerly called BZX, I think it was BZX.

Starting point is 00:45:42 It was exploited. And so there is, I think, a class action lawsuit against Uki-Dow. This is all directionally correct. And so it's a suit over whether the Dow members can take responsibility over the damage caused by a Dow. The CFTC has won, that court case. The court has deemed CFTC to have one, which is bad, which is terrible. We don't like that. to be clear, if you had, like, if this kind of precedent continues,

Starting point is 00:46:10 if you have a token in a particular Dow governance token, and something happens, the DAW does something in which you are, you could potentially be legally liable in the same way an equity holder, our partner is if this was some sort of a, you know, corporate entity or a business entity in the U.S. And it's basically the worst possible ruling for DAO's. Why are we not completely, freaking out about this. So Lex Knot, who's another crypto lawyer, says that this is a default

Starting point is 00:46:42 judgment. Uki-Dao didn't offend itself, so the CFTC won without needing to prove its theories. So that is very limited precedence, legal precedent. So that is why we're not freaking out about this. But if this could have been much worse, the Uki-Dao has to pay $645,000, Uki-Dow members. Basically, this is the CFTC calling a bluff on decentralization theater, specifically around Uki-Dal. But the worry is that this would happen again and the next one would fight, have more legal precedent. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:13 It is important to know here that no Uki-Dal members were held personally, responsibly liable for anything in this particular case. So it's a very mixed bag reaction, but the Uki-Dal story is now closed, I guess. Yeah. The idea that like a token holder has kind of like risk, basically that torches, I think, tokens in the U.S. like Dow's in the U.S. in particular. And so, and it's interesting because

Starting point is 00:47:37 token holders don't have the the legal rights on the benefit side of things. They just have the downside, right? So, no investor protections, only investor liability. I think it's a backdoor way to kind of like torch the asset class and really cause some harm here. Wow.

Starting point is 00:47:52 God, I, Ryan, I hate that we are 49 minutes into this recording. And it's all, it's all SEC. I hate that. You know what? It's been that kind of year, though. It is a regulatory war year. But we got some great things coming up next,

Starting point is 00:48:09 which is more build market material. Uniswap. Version 4, getting ready to ship. It's awesome. announced some really exciting things. Eigenlayer hits Maynett. And also, awesome. The Bank of China just issued $28 million in digital structured notes

Starting point is 00:48:24 on the Ethereum blockchain. Awesome. It's trying to fill the void here. We'll be back with that. But before we do, we want to thank the sponsors. that made this episode possible, including Metamask. If you're not familiar with Metamask, maybe you only use the wallet, go check out portfolio.medas.io.

Starting point is 00:48:43 I'm showing my portfolio now, David. I wish this was looking a little healthier. But here it is. Metamask has a fantastic portfolio tool you can check out too. Here they are. Hey, the tokens that are green. Those are stable coins. The only ones that are green.

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Starting point is 00:50:59 So we'll start with uniswap v3 and why we needed a v4 in the first place. So the idea behind uniswap v3 was that V3 had certain features embedded into V3, into uniswap V3 pools. One of them was like an oracle, for example. And so like the every single uniswap pool, whether it's like ether USB or ether die, it came with an oracle in every single unistwap exchange. So anytime you ever swapped on a uniswap V3 pool contract, you would update that oracle.

Starting point is 00:51:29 And that would cost gas. And so that is an opinionated feature that's costing money for swappers for perhaps a feature that not very many people are using, especially along the long tail of uniswap pools. And so that is an example of a feature that's placed into uniswap v3 that you cannot pull out. Uniswap v4 is a massively reduced feature eliminated base protocol

Starting point is 00:51:50 with instead of features hooks. Hook, what are hooks? Hooks are just expressive ways to input, new code into a uniswap v4 pool contract and so what does a hook do it can do anything that's that's kind of the point uh it's kind of like a smart contract not a full full not a fully expressive smart contract but still very expressive way to make widgets for uniswit it's almost like um a smart pool right or like uh smart pool yes smart feature smart widget you know it's not fully turn complete but it's most of the way there the other reason i look i like hook

Starting point is 00:52:27 centric red map, you know, and compare that to rollup centric red map, which Ethereum map to is because this is like Ethereum in the way that the rollup centric roadmap for Ethereum made Ethereum modular Ethereum. We've talked very much about modular Ethereum. This is modular uniswap. This is the reason they're doing hooks so that the primitive can focus on kind of the base layer type stuff. The primitive can be primitive. And you can, it's much more expressive. You can build all sorts of other things on top of it, just in the same way that the B.C. chain and Ethereum really focused on the consensus layer, the core stuff that only Ethereum could do. It was like outsourced execution to the roll-ups. And that's what Uniswap is doing with

Starting point is 00:53:08 these hooks. Yeah, that's exactly right. So like what can you do with hooks? Like it's really your oyster. You can do, you can make a transaction that does DCA over blocks for a year's long worth of time. You can put back in that Oracle that I was talking about. You can do anything. I think there's going to be like two classes of hooks. There's going to be hooks that almost everyone uses because they're just so good and useful that most Uniswap pools use them. And then there's going to be completely customary, custom hooks that maybe just one Uniswap pool wants for one specific purpose. So it's kind of like having a generalized, optimistic roll-up or an app roll app or app chain

Starting point is 00:53:46 except for app hooks, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Now, we should say this isn't live now. Correct. A lot of the code is out there, but it's on GitHub. And Uniswap is doing a different approach with respect to the last. launch of a V4. V3 was just like, boom, it's here, launched on Maynett. V4 is like, hey, here's

Starting point is 00:54:03 what we're doing. Go take a look at our code, go read our white paper, give us some commentary, and we'll roll this out in the months ahead. I don't know. Do you think, like, Hayden, we had Hayden Adams on the podcast earlier this week. Do you think that V4 is going to release by the end of this year? Do you think it's that soon, or could it take a little bit longer? It's going to take, so it's got a dependency. It needs this thing called transient storage from EIP-1153. Okay, so what does transient storage do? Does I have to explain one more feature, which is called the singleton construction.

Starting point is 00:54:36 This is a design term in computer science. A singleton contract is just a single contract that hosts all of the logic, as opposed to many different contracts for every single pool. So Uniswap V3 and V2 were all done with unique contracts. So when you spun up every single token on Uniswap V2 and V3 has its own Uniswap contract address. With a singleton contract design, uniswap is one single contract address that exchange pools are inside of that one contract.

Starting point is 00:55:07 So instead of one contract per token, it's one global contract, a singleton contract. And so what does that do? That reduces minting new pools, the cost to mint new pools by 99%. 99%. Yeah. So new pools cost 99% less to mint. I mean, that's a one-time fee. So it's just like the long tail of crypto assets get cheaper, Uniswap.

Starting point is 00:55:27 swap pools. But then importantly, it makes this thing called flash accounting. So with every single uniswap pool is under one single contract, it makes order routing between all of the uniswap pools extremely efficient. And then this flash accounting thing is what they need transient storage from EIP 1153 to do. And so when we rebalance all of the pools because everyone is doing all these trades all at once, the transient storage allows for flash accounting so that every, all the uniswap pools can all settle without making a big footprint on the Ethereum layer one. Why are you smiling? I'm just smiling because imagine a crypto nob just listening to what we just said there. There's so many words there that they're like transient storage and like flash, what did you just say? Flash

Starting point is 00:56:12 Accounting, all of these things. Give us like the really, explain it like I'm five kind of version of this too. Okay, how to explain Uniswop like I'm five? There's just two main, there's two main things. apps, which are the hooks. So Uniswap has apps now, and they're going to be developed by the open source world. It's free and permissionless to build apps for Uniswap. So Uniswop's going to have apps. Flash accounting, it doesn't cost anything to trade across multiple Uniswap pools at once, and it used to. And so the complexity and gas costs and fees of trading throughout the Uniswap universe is

Starting point is 00:56:54 almost zero. All right. That's good. Yeah. More pools, better pools, more liquidity. That's what we're getting. Better D5. Overall, it's a huge emphasis on gas reduction. So gas reduction is a huge theme in V4 and also expressivity. So I have two big questions, Ryan, that we want to bring up. Here's the Discord. This is from Scottie. Scotty from the Bankless Nation Discord. What's up, Scottie? Ryan and David, do you see Uniswap V4 as a boon or a consolidation? I love the architecture and the composability. However, the hook concept could turn any competing AMM into a uniswop surf by reducing their product to a hook

Starting point is 00:57:31 that feeds the uniswop engine. It's a very smart question. It's a very smart question. I actually went into the Discord. That's a really great question. Scottie, you should be asking questions here. Not asked. Scotty continues and says the comparison to Ethereum is apt. Thank you, Scottie. Roll a hook-centric roadmap for uniswap. Put that one in your brain. It's now a meme. But breaks down because Hayden and company own the fee switch after V4 when all competing AMM collapse into hooks and Uniswap has captured most on-chain liquidity. What do you expect V5 or V6 or the fee switch to look like? Does this centralized or decentralized uniswap in your mind?

Starting point is 00:58:04 Do you have an answer? Oh, go for it. You start with this one. All right. First, let me drink some more comments. He's preparing his answer, Scotty. Get ready for it. I think Scottie is just like he's got the bead.

Starting point is 00:58:16 He's on the ball right now. Okay, so do you see Uniswap v4 as a boon or a consolidation? The answer is both. And I want to put this into Alt layer one terms. Does he mean a consolidation of what, of liquidity? Of, I think Scottie's saying like all of these alternative AMMs that have different design structures and patterns are now like made obsolete because they can just become a hook onto Uniswark. In the same way, I think that roll-ups kind of eat side chains. Roll-up centric roadmaps eats up all the layer ones.

Starting point is 00:58:47 It's the same pattern. So like, why would you spin up a lot? Here's the words of the ETH maxi, right? Like, why would you spin up an alternative layer one? Just make a roll up on Ethereum. Why? Why would you make another AMM with different logic or just make it a hook on top of uniswap? And so it's both a boon and a consolidation.

Starting point is 00:59:03 I think, as an Ethereum biased person, that the roll-up-centric roadmap to Ethereum is a boon for many, many networks because they do not have to be burdened with having to deal with the complexity of the decentralized nature of the layer one. hooks on uniswap do not have to deal with getting new liquidity becoming a a completely resistant hardened protocol like you just hook into uniswap and you have all the all of the liquidity it's going to be easier to get your logic built into liquidity if you just make a hook on top of uniswap yeah you know what i think the patterns are so strong i'm i get i'm much less worried about kind of consolidation and network effect in one particular uh uh you like thing owning like 90% of Markshaer, that sort of thing, if it's a credibly neutral, public good, primitive, right? And I'm not saying that Uniswap is as much that as Ethereum is, because it's not. All right, there's like a Uniswap Labs type entity. There's other things.

Starting point is 01:00:05 There's a, there's Unitoken governance. There's kind of fee switch. They have not quite open source licensing. It's like, you know, like a four-year thing, and it becomes open source. but it's pretty close and maybe as close as we've seen of any defy protocol. There's things like curve that are very close to the bare metal too, and I love those things. So I'm less worried about kind of consolidation of uniswap as long as it preserves those core

Starting point is 01:00:35 properties of decentralization. Yeah, and I think a lot of those core properties about uniswap are like that's not an option. They don't have the turn on centralization switch on uniswap. They just have turn on the fee switch. And so, like, yeah, if you want to be, like, kind of cynical about it, I think the idea of, what did Scottie say, that Hayden and company have the fee switch. I think that's a little bit of a cynical takes. Like, well, like, tokens start somewhere. Hayden invented the protocol.

Starting point is 01:01:05 He invented it in a way that you cannot make it centralized. Like, yeah, he has a lot of unitokens, but he is also one of the biggest air drops. Anyone can spin up a pool, right? And the fee switch is configured based on the pool? Like that... I don't know about that one. I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:01:24 I don't know. Another question from spartansolution.eath. Uniswap v4 announced its hooks this week. One of the hooks discussed in the podcast was the ability to enable trades using Twop for buying and selling tokens. Would this hook be something someone can use to DCA into a token on uniswap? Yes. And that is actually the exact point of what that app was talking about.

Starting point is 01:01:44 You can use a hook to do DCA into Uniswap. And it's actually just one transaction. And you can set the logic. And it's only, you only have to buy once. Dollar cost averaging. That's what DCA is. If you want to put a little bit of your paycheck every,

Starting point is 01:01:57 every two weeks into crypto, you can do that. That's exactly right. Okay, if you want to listen to the podcast with Hayden, we had an hour long, hour and 10 minutes with Hayden. I'm talking all about it. So that podcast is, well, it's already in your podcast feed. So here's Hayden.

Starting point is 01:02:11 Uh, okay, uh, are we ready? Igenlayer. Iragon layer mainnet launch. All right. Igen layer is on chain. Is on main net. So there are three milestones to the eigenlayer main net. We are at milestone number one. So we are off. Uh, what is milestone number one? Uh, this is when 3,200 of each of the following staked eth tokens are allowed to be deposited into eigen layer. That's Lido, Rocket Pool and Coinbase wrapped staked ether. Uh, so SCEs, R.Eth, CBE, 3,200 and each of them. can be deposited into eigenlayer, they all got filled up within hours of mainnet launch. And so now it's all full. So you can't do anything right now. So now you can't do anything because it's too late. They already did it. They're going to open up that more. It's like very guarded, slow launch, very protected, very secure.

Starting point is 01:02:58 So that's phase one. And so I guess Milestone One's already done. Milestone two is when operators join the network. And these are the people who do the actual validation tasks of restaked networks, aka doing the work. So that's what's coming up next. And then in Milestone 3 is when we launch actual services. So these are the actual eigen networks.

Starting point is 01:03:18 Some of them are already being worked on. Some of them are just theoretical, but totally up to the free market to build. That's eigenlayer data availability. Espresso, which is shared sequencing, witness chain, Omni. That's going to be so cool. I can't wait.

Starting point is 01:03:31 It's a lot of networks. This is his biggest roll-ups. And we talked about this two weeks ago. We had our episode with Sri Ram about restaking. you basically take your eth, you stake it, you stake it again. Take it again. Another network. And that transmutes some of the economic security of Ethereum's validator set

Starting point is 01:03:50 into the new thing that you want to bootstrap, an Oracle, an app, a chain, whatever you can think of. It's such a fantastic concept. And the fact that this is coming out already is very exciting. I remember when we first learned about roll-ups, we had to wait for like three years. Oh, my God. way too long. Way too long. Restaking.

Starting point is 01:04:10 That is actually a really good point. The inception of knowing about eigenlayer to it going to Mainnet, I learned about it in October of 2022. Why didn't we think of this earlier? Stryoram. Why didn't we think about, I guess we had to have staking it again? Yeah, why didn't we think about rest? I guess we had to have staking first and that like happened relatively recently.

Starting point is 01:04:25 That is true. That is true. All right. Well, the other thing is like, okay, so yeah, we waited forever for rollups and now we finally have them. People were building their eigen layer restaking components before Mainnet. was even around. That's impressive.

Starting point is 01:04:39 There's infrastructure ready to go to be using eigenlayer data availability. Polygon, just an announcement as well. So our vision for Polygon is simple to build a value layer of the internet. They're doing an announcement where they're kind of starting with a series of announcements, I would say. So what is ahead of us for the next month or so? A few things. We have an announcement of four announcements.

Starting point is 01:05:05 Yes. Okay, so the week of June 20 or excuse me, the week of June 19th is when they are going to be talking about the future of the Polygon proof of stake chain. I'm going to guess that it's going to become a ZK roll up. I'm just making that prediction. The week of June 26th, the next week is the architecture and stack of Polygon. There's a bunch of other networks. Maybe they get tied together. Then July 10th, the utility and evolution of the nativematic token.

Starting point is 01:05:31 And then the week of July 17th, the transition to greater community governance and protocol. the treasury. Sounds like a very holistic, large move by Polygon all in all. So this kind of feels like the big one. The biggest one I'm excited about is any idea of the Polygon-Pivistake chain turning into a ZK roll-up, a ZK EVM. That would be absolutely amazing. That would be a like promises made, promises kept type of moment and with just cement Relyps as cement Ethereum's roll-up centric roadmap as, hey, it works. We had a big kind of like side chain type thing convert. Interesting that the branding on this tweet,

Starting point is 01:06:09 our vision for Polygon is simple. To build a value layer of the internet. Ooh, does that... Does that trigger you? Do you think they should have said Ethereum? I mean, Ethereum is the internet. I saw lots of people getting upset at this thing, like Polygon is kind of disaligned or like,

Starting point is 01:06:25 you know, the marketing that kind of thing. I'm not seeing it yet, but it's a take out there. I will get to this. Like, the current mood and the, like the vibe of person. Say it that for later. We'll say that for later. We have that later. All right.

Starting point is 01:06:38 What's Optimism doing? Last layer two thing. Optimism Bedrock got released last week. And so now we are able to check out some of the data on the gas fees. So if you open up that Doomboard that comes up next. So we can just see that gas fees on Bedrock are like one third, one half reduced versus the legacy optimism. Just lovely to see. And this is all before EIP 4844.

Starting point is 01:06:59 So when you reduce optimism gas fees by more than half before 4844, gosh. gas fees getting low David over to NFT stuff Krakken out of beta Krakken NFT New Gateway to buying selling and learning about NFTs What is what is this about from Krakken

Starting point is 01:07:18 Yeah so they have their new NFT platform that is launched Buying holding selling and learning About NFTs they say They're integrated with Polygon You also can trade Reddit Collectible avatars Reddhs having its blackout moment But you can still trade snooze on

Starting point is 01:07:33 Polygon using a Krakin cool so you can also pay with whatever you can buy and sell nfts using your credit card or crypto which is interesting and then also they have their f1 car so if you want to get your nfti perhaps if i do this my crypto dickbutt on the crack in f1 car you can put your nfts into the crackin nfti platform so congrats on crackin for getting their nft platform out of the gate and of course disclosure crackin is also a sponsor of the podcast also should mentioned because we talked about uniswap earlier that uniswap is also a sponsor of the bankless podcast as you've probably noticed and i'm an advisor to maddick and david and i are both advisors for

Starting point is 01:08:13 optimism we've mentioned all of these projects so want to keep disclosures always front and center with you guys as always bankless dot com slash disclosures you can find out what we are doing in crypto at any given time david this is pretty big news black rock filing a bitcoin etf soon close to close to close to. Soon T.M. Soon T.M. But that would be huge. But the reason why that, yes, BlackRock, like, biggest asset manager on the face of the earth. Buy a lot. Real hard for Gary Gensler to ignore.

Starting point is 01:08:43 Like, you're going to deny that one, Gary. Aren't they? Yeah, right? Yeah. And so there's two partners here, both CoinDusk and Cracken have been partnered with this. So Cracken is providing the pricing data and Coinbase is being the custodian. So Coinbase will store the Bitcoin. Cracken will provide the pricing.

Starting point is 01:09:00 And Black Collarock will provide the ETF. and Gary Gensler will approve it. Will he? Will he? Right, Gary. Who's stronger? Which influences stronger? Is it kind of the big asset manager institutions?

Starting point is 01:09:11 That's a really good question. It is. I mean, this will be fun to watch that squirming happen. Very exciting, though. We certainly need a Bitcoin ETF. David, Hong Kong is putting pressure on three major banks to take on crypto exchanges as clients, Hong Kong. I saw, this is so, I'm so jealous.

Starting point is 01:09:29 Let me read this to you. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority, is putting pressure on HSBC, Standard Charter, and Bank of China to take on crypto exchanges as clients. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority is putting pressure on its own banks saying, quote, due diligence on potential customers should not create undue burden, particularly those for setting up office in Hong Kong to look for opportunities here. I am so jealous. Imagine that. God. Imagine if you had come like, I think it's a matter of honestly, you know, the U.S. Ziggs and Hong Kong. Zags. I think that's what's happening.

Starting point is 01:10:04 China's going the opposite direction right now. So Hong Kong, China, kind of the same. Also not, though. This isn't mainland China. This is Hong Kong. Hong Kong is kind of like the financial innovation center, I would say, of like, you know, China now. But Bank of China issues $28 million in a digital structured note on Ethereum, also out of Hong Kong.

Starting point is 01:10:23 So there's a $28 million digital structured note, I don't know what that means, on Ethereum issued by Hong Kong. That's pretty cool. That is, yeah. That is interesting. Why are they doing that? That's interesting. David, there are some release. First Chinese financial institution to issue a tokenized security in Hong Kong. Big deal. Using public permissionless rails to issue securities. You can totally do that. As long as you traded on an ATS from Aaron Capital. No, no, no, no ATS. Just un-swap.

Starting point is 01:10:51 This is a release this week. Tell me about this. Tyco Alpha 3 TestNet is live. What is Tyco? Tyco is another layer two on Ethereum. It is a ZK EVM. It is, of all the layer 2 ZK EVMs that are out there, ZK Sync era, Polygon, scroll, and then Tyco, Tyco is the furthest behind, the newest on the scene, but also sitting shoulder to shoulder

Starting point is 01:11:13 with the rest of them, I believe the social categorization, all of all that. So they are now on TestNet. So congrats to Matthew Feinstone and the team. Very cool. Oh, Matthew's from that.

Starting point is 01:11:23 Formerly loop ring, right, GameStop? Formerly Loopring, formerly GameStop. Lens just beefed up a raise. Today we are excited to announce our $15 million funding round to accelerate the adoption of the next generation of internet powered by a human connection, the people powered social layer. This is a lens protocol.

Starting point is 01:11:40 Very cool. Dabbling in Web 3 social, for sure. And I don't know, hopefully taking some market share from the Twitters of the world. Yes. Yeah. It should be easy these days. David. We got a very special job this week.

Starting point is 01:11:54 I'm going to dance in a second, but first I'm going to show this job. Senior analyst slash token hunter. So we are looking for a senior analyst inside of bankless who can lead the research for our team Hunting Alpha, tracking investment opportunities, who can also write for the newsletter, but also inform me and Ryan to give good takes on perhaps the weekly roll-up like you are hearing right now. So if you are listening to this and you have some analyst chops and you know how to write, there is a link in the show notes to apply. That is a senior, this is the most senior writer that we will hire for.

Starting point is 01:12:26 And if you do get this role, you will be working on. on this bad boy. This is the token hub that we have open, which is our buy, sell, hold ratings on tokens in crypto. A fantastic product we just rolled out on the bankless website, and we need some more help with it. We need some more senior analysts. We are assembling a team. We're building a team. We want you to lead it. But David promised to dance. We got some other jobs for you. A senior backend software engineer at Center Pixel, Autorespace needs a web three frontend engineer. Phantom is looking for two software engineers, mobile and front end. Prima is looking for a Web3 product management and architecture lead. De Nare is looking for DeNari. I think smart

Starting point is 01:13:08 contract engineer. Uniswap Labs needs some engineers as well. Oh my gosh. There's so much more. Lots of devs being hired right now. Bankless.com slash jobs. Go check it out. David, what do we have coming up next? Coming up next, we've got the takes of the week, of course, and then what Ryan and I are bullish on, along with a moment of Zen at the very And from El Choco. God, I love this. I don't know if you've listened to this rhyme, but it's hilarious. All of that and more coming up as soon as we talk to some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. Arbitrum 1 is pioneering the world of secure Ethereum scalability and is continuing to accelerate the Web 3 landscape. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum 1, producing flourishing defy and NFT ecosystems.

Starting point is 01:13:48 With a recent addition of Arbitrum Nova, gaming and social daps like Reddit are also now calling Arbitrum home. Both Arbitrum 1 and Nova leverage the security and decentralization of Ethereum and provide a builder experience that's intuitive, familiar, and fully EVM compatible. On Arbitrum, both builders and users will experience faster transaction speeds with significantly lower gas fees. With Arbitrum's recent migration to Arbitromet. Nitro, it's also now 10 times faster than before. Visit Arbitrum.io, where you can join the community, dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets, and start building your first app. With Arbitrum, experience Web3 development the way it was meant to be. Secure, fast, cheap, and friction-free. You know Uniswap.

Starting point is 01:14:30 It's the world's largest decentralized exchange with over $1.4 trillion in trading volume. You know this because we talk about it endlessly on bank lists. It's Uniswap. But Uniswap is becoming so much more. Uniswap Labs just released the Uniswop Mobile Wallet for iOS, the newest, easiest way to trade tokens on the go. With a Uniswap wallet, you can easily create or import a new wallet, buy crypto on any available exchange with your debit card,

Starting point is 01:14:53 with extremely low Fiat on-ramp fees, and you can seamlessly swap on mainnet, polygon, arbitram, and optimism. On the Uniswap mobile wallet, you can store and display your beautiful NFTs, and you can also explore Web3 with the in-app search features, market leaderboards, and price charts,

Starting point is 01:15:08 or use Wallet Connect to connect to any Web3 application. So you can now go directly to Defi with the Uniswop mobile wallet, safe, simple custody from the most trusted team in Defi. Download the Uniswap Wallet today on iOS. There is a link in the show notes. Jesse Walden.

Starting point is 01:15:22 How to actually get through a bare market. Jesse Walden says, maintaining your psychology is one of the hardest parts of building slash investing in crypto. Frontier tech is hard enough, but pundits love to kick us while we are down. This is cyclical along with the market. Maintain thesis, focus, a dose of stoicism, and they'll call it luck. Great take. That is a great take. Here's another take from David Hoffman. The current meta of crypto just feels so weird right now.

Starting point is 01:15:48 Yeah, it's a little bit downstream of the conversation that we just had. So, like, I can't really put a pin on it. It just feels weird to be in crypto at this present moment. I think crypto feels a little lost, is one thing I'd say. Crypto Twitter at least is more grumpy than usual, a bit more reactionary. Everything gets put under the microscope. It seems hard for us still to separate, like, our friends from our enemies. Maybe we're just reeling from the trauma of 2022, where,

Starting point is 01:16:20 some people in crypto turned out to be kind of enemies of the values of this space. I feel like we're more divided than we should be or we could be. Again, in the face of kind of a common set of challenges, we have challenges not just from regulatory, which are immense, but also in terms of a shared voice, like a shared message, showing the world what crypto can actually, the value it can actually deliver. prices are down too. So I think people get like grumpy when that happens. I'm not sure.

Starting point is 01:16:55 It's kind of a weird vibe right now. What do you think? How would you describe it? I think it's also because we're seeing a crescendoing and building, but also an even faster crescendoing of fud and like real fud, like Gary Gensler, SEC fud. And I don't know like how people, I don't think people are figuring out how to come to terms with it.

Starting point is 01:17:15 I think we see parts of the crypto community come together. Like I'm doing my best to, trying to come together with the Salana community. I'm really trying here. And then other parts just seem to be falling off. It's like crypto feels like I'm trying to hold water in my hands right now. And it's been that way for like a year. I don't know what to do about it.

Starting point is 01:17:30 I don't know what to is like, crypto hasn't been faced with these challenges before. I think you said this earlier, 2021, the class of 2021 and the class of 2017 just aren't like vibing very well, I think. It's a generational gap there. I think there is. Yeah, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:17:45 Definitely some of that. I have a solution for you. But it's in the what I'm, bullish on section, but I'll start with asking you the question. What do you bullish on this week? Okay, I'm bullish on crypto lawyers. I think our lawyers in this industry are absolute just chats and chat ads. I think they are just, I think they're just savage. I think they're some of the coolest lawyer. I don't know the full spectrum of industry lawyers, but I think like freedom fighter lawyers, freedom fighter lawyers. Paul from Coinbase

Starting point is 01:18:17 Jake and Amanda, I don't know if you're listening to that episode Ryan, but it was awesome. Rodriguez is. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I think we have some of the most soldiers like savage lawyers that are out there who are like lawyers but also just like freedom fighters like technological freedom fighter. I never thought that we would have cypherpunk lawyers yet here we are. Like lawyers that embody cypherpunk values.

Starting point is 01:18:41 Shout out to all the crypto lawyers out there. That's a good one. I appreciate the lawyers. That's what I'm bullish on. So you're bullish on them too. Thank you for sticking around because if you guys didn't stick around, we'd really be in trouble. True. Ryan, what do you bullish on?

Starting point is 01:18:52 This is kind of an answer to like if crypto's feeling weird. Here's what you should do. And it's what I'm bullish on. Grab a bear market buddy. Do you only tell me that? My bare market buddy, you. I just, I've been feeling like, honestly, guys, if you're listening to this, I guess you are. Crypto is hard enough.

Starting point is 01:19:11 It's really hard. You got the volatility. it's mentally exhausting. You have kind of constant attacks. Your relatives think you're crazy. You're down bad right now. Like all sorts of things. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:22 And then for me personally, you also throw a media on top of that. And what that means is also social media for me. And like social media is notorious. It's toxic. It's hard. It's hard out there. And so I feel like sometimes every single week,

Starting point is 01:19:36 I feel like under attack. You're like by somebody. It's just something happens. And you're just like, I didn't mean for that. that I didn't mean to say it in that way. And like, this is not the event that I wanted to be handed. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:48 And as a somebody in crypto and also a content creator, and I'll speak to the content creation part of this for a minute, it's very difficult to separate two things. Who are the good faith critics and who are the bad faith critics? All right? Because the bad faith critics, you want to separate them and like just cast them aside. Like you don't need to listen to them. This is just the hater crowd. I mean, they're doing it to grow their influence.

Starting point is 01:20:11 They'll be happy to spread information. It's just bad faith attacks on you. But if you throw out all of the critics, then you also throw out the good faith critics too. And in there you have people who disagree, right? They're good faith critics, they disagree. Well, that's a great chance for you engage and to learn something from them.

Starting point is 01:20:28 And then you have people who misunderstand your perspective. Well, that's a good opportunity for you to learn how to communicate better. So you clarify things, right? And so that's good faith too. You want that. And then there's some people who genuinely like understand you. They just think you're wrong and you did something wrong. And these are helpers. They sort of help you improve. And you absolutely want to listen to that last group of people. They're the ones

Starting point is 01:20:53 that hold you accountable. Probably like the questionnaire from earlier asking us about disclosures, that sort of thing. So you always want to listen to your helpers. But what's really difficult to do, David, I think in bare markets, when everyone's feeling grumpy and you have these types of reactions, is like listen to any critics. It's like hard for me because there's so, the bad, faith and the good faith are all mixed together. So it all sounds like noise. And my solution there, the only one I found, is bear market buddy. All right? You need a council. Pass it back and forth. You need a group. You need people who are going to like call you on your BS, right? And also listen to your decision. A group of people you can also be a little bit like

Starting point is 01:21:35 crazy with, right? And so that for me is secret through getting through 2018, 2019. That for me is actually the secret right now. I can tell you, honestly, David, I wouldn't be doing this podcast without you. Like, I, there's no chance. I could not run this thing. Like, it's just impossible. And so I just want to extrapolate that to anyone else who's listening is don't travel alone. Okay? Never do that. Go find some friends. Go find some people who are on the crypto journey that believe similar things that are here for the right reasons. Now is the time to find them because it is a settler's market. The tourists are out. I don't know where they are.

Starting point is 01:22:12 They're gone. It's a settlers market. So find your bear market buddies. And just hang on. Could be months. Maybe years. Hopefully it's just months. Years?

Starting point is 01:22:23 I don't know. We don't know. But settlers don't care. They're going to be here. And that's what I'm bullish on. You want to get to the meme of the week? Meme of the week. Let's do it.

Starting point is 01:22:32 All right. Here we got. What are we looking at? Dana. Da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na. We got Gary Gensler as a shark. And man, those eyes are really far apart in the innocent little ladies swimming on top of him. This is the Jaws.

Starting point is 01:22:46 This is down. There we go. We also, like I said, have a moment of Zen from Coco the Corn Hub. Oh, this is so good. It's so good. I cherish every single one of these. I doubt that they're still going to be available, but these are a mint on manifold. I believe there's 150.

Starting point is 01:23:04 I definitely minted one. So, yeah, we're going to go here from that moment as then as soon as Ryan tells you about risk and disclaimers about going west. Yeah, get ready for it. This is Elkoko.eith. It's the bear. It's called, this will get you in the mood for a good bear market where we are right now in the settlers market. Risk and disclaimers, of course, got to let you know, Eith, Bitcoin.

Starting point is 01:23:21 These assets are all risky. So is crypto. You could definitely lose what you put in. But we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone, but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. Oh, it's the bear.

Starting point is 01:23:36 It's the bear. It's finally hair. I swear I'm so happy because it's the bear. Now the crypto bear is one to fare He'll eat your soul if you don't take care When the tight goes out he smells an air And if you're not wearing clothes you'll be a souvenir of the bear But it's the bear

Starting point is 01:23:54 It's finally hair I swear I'm so full of chair Because it's the bear But no one's scared because we're all out of fear And you can say LSD and a platypus appears And friends are made that'll last for years And it's easier to find your dream career And it's also when Normies think we're weak

Starting point is 01:24:12 Can they mount their attacks and gai the ink critiques? It's funny if they still don't see it clear. We get stronger when times are more severe, because it's the beer. It's the beer. It's finally here, but I swear I'm so full of cheer because it's the beer. Well, the bar is when you find out who you are, if you're here for the values, you won't go far, and it flushes out anything subpar and it noise dies down so you can pre-par

Starting point is 01:24:45 for the next little run whenever it comes, because you've got your scars and you're no longer dumb and you're down so far that you've become numb but it's not about the money when you lived among the bar

Starting point is 01:24:54 where it's the bar it's finally hard when I swear I'm so full of char because it's the bar

Bankless - ROLLUP: Prometheum SEC Psyop Exposed

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