Bankless - ROLLUP: Satoshi Exposed | Unichain | FBI Token | Permissionless III | Hoffman vs. Warwick

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

This Weekly Rollup was recorded IRL at Permissionless III. We discuss HBO revealing the identity of Bitcoin’s creator, Uniswap’s Unichain announcement, the new FBI token and David Hoffman vs. Kain Warwick upcoming fight. ------ 🎮 B3 | THE FUTURE OF ONCHAIN GAMING https://bankless.cc/b3  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://k.xyz/bankless-pod-q2    ⁠  🦄UNISWAP | BROWSER EXTENSION https://bankless.cc/uniswap  ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM ⁠https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum  🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle    🗣️TOKU | CRYPTO EMPLOYMENT  https://bankless.cc/toku   ⚡️ CARTESI | LINUX-POWERED ROLLUPS https://bankless.cc/CartesiGovernance  ------ ✨ Mint the episode on Zora ✨ https://zora.co/collect/zora:0x0c294913a7596b427add7dcbd6d7bbfc7338d53f/77?referrer=0x077Fe9e96Aa9b20Bd36F1C6290f54F8717C5674E   ------ TIMESTAMPS & RESOURCES 0:00 Intro 3:04 Markets 6:14 US Economy https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/04/september-2024-us-jobs-report.html   https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/let-us-pause-to-appreciate-the-remarkable   13:28 Uniswap Announces Unichain https://x.com/Uniswap/status/1844363396382408774  https://x.com/TaikiMaeda2/status/1844363706798571828  https://x.com/0xCygaar/status/1844377718479257864  https://x.com/haydenzadams/status/1844363698485198899   https://x.com/delitzer/status/1844364429389070699   https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1575772104678510592  https://x.com/danrobinson/status/1844407479528194262   https://x.com/haydenzadams/status/1844411400523067599   https://x.com/Fwiz/status/1844375503601594594   https://x.com/gluk64/status/1844388796290183302   https://youtu.be/0g8Pc-jytkc?si=ibjntDmkIXN0uDBR   30:55 HBO Reveals Satoshi Identity? https://x.com/crypto_div/status/1843838385913258387  https://x.com/MarcHochstein/status/1843768871318372562  https://x.com/peterktodd/status/1843957196830441766  https://polymarket.com/event/who-will-hbo-doc-identify-as-satoshi  https://x.com/ki_young_ju/status/1843872372627255541  https://x.com/HalieyWelchX/status/1844038238408990871  37:23 FBI Coin https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-charges-18-people-companies-cryptocurrency-fraud-2024-10-09/  https://x.com/esatoshiclub/status/1844095224907432441  https://x.com/tier10k/status/1844106925149126887  https://x.com/loomdart/status/1844108582511575289  https://polymarket.com/event/ansem-criminal-charges-in-2024?tid=1728573367331  https://x.com/zachxbt/status/1843940648430493906   46:02 Crypto.com SEC Wells Notice https://crypto.com/company-news/complaint  https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/sec-commissioner-confesses-crypto-approach-has-fueled-disaster-whole-industry?src=wgna  https://x.com/lex_node/status/1843651871522861187  https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-money  50:10 New EIP-7781 https://x.com/0xcygaar/status/1842985189124997362?s=46&t=2ZINVXJQKx6xO_6Wiiu_2g  https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/pull/8931#issuecomment-2395026393  https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1841756178692358587  53:32 IMF vs Bitcoin https://x.com/samcallah/status/1842193389569143027  55:22 World Liberty Financial New Details https://thedefiant.io/news/defi/trumps-world-liberty-financial-proposes-aave-deployment-on-ethereum  https://www.theblock.co/post/320430/trump-world-financial-liberty-raise   58:47 Permissionless III  https://x.com/Ethereum_Women/status/1844051472335671694  https://x.com/Jesseeckel/status/1844196686484341067  https://x.com/benlakoff/status/1844394966925324694   1:02:57 David Hoffman vs Kain Warwick https://polymarket.com/event/hoffman-vs-warwick?tid=1728578327494   https://x.com/TrustlessState/status/1844388312771068402   1:05:55 Moment of Zen ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures ⁠  

Bankless Nation, happy second week of October. David and I are live in Salt Lake City at Permissionless. The third permissionless. The third permissionless conference. And we got a weekly roll-up to bring to you live. Even though we're at a conference, the weekly roll-up must go on. David's at a separate desk, and he was like, I feel so far away from you. I'm like, dude, we're usually like hundreds of miles away from each other when we're recording this. But this has been a big week for crypto. We've got to start with talking about the uniswap reveal. So the unichane is coming. coming to crypto, a new chain for Uniswap and Defi. What does it do? Is it good for the Unitoken? Those are some of the questions we'll talk about. I think also what does it mean for the Ethereum roll-up-centric roadmap? I don't think it's going to change the roadmap at all, but how do people feel about the

roll-up-centric roadmap now that I think Ethereum's biggest app is now a chain? I think big implications. I think people are going to be chewing on this one for a while, including myself. Also, did HBO just figure out who Satoshi is? People coming into Bitcoin for the first time and deciding and they're telling us exactly who Satoshi is. They found them. I'm sure they figured it out. And then also is Ethereum going to cut down on block times?

Are we going to make the L1 great? Again, there is a brand new EIP endorsed, thumbed up by Justin Drake as well as others. We're going to talk about what all of that means for Ethereum. David, do you know the FBI launched a token? Is it the FBI token? It's not so fun, okay? Wait, do I want to buy this or not buy this?

You don't want to buy it. Unless you want to go to jail. Also, Gary Gensler sent another nassiegram to a crypto company. Which company is it going to be? What week is it? It's every week. That's happened at least six times this year. But they are fighting back, which is the good news.

Also, let's go over a few metrics on the U.S. economy. It's kind of feeling good out there, and I want to share with you. So we'll get to that and more. But before we begin, I think we have a message from our friends and sponsors over at B3. This is like the core team behind base, at least members of the former core team. of base and they're getting into, what is this? On Chain Gaming? Yeah.

Did you ever play, like, old flash games, like mini-clip arcade or addicting games? I played, like, old flash games. You're talking, like, in-browser flash games? In-browser flash games. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that is what B3 is. Okay. A layer three on top of base, partner with notable gaming brands, such as parallel,

mighty bear games and Nifty Island. So if you want to fun, play some fun addicting games. B3 is the place. Bankless.c.c.c. slash B3. Even though it is a base layer 3, it is also chain agnostic. So games can come from

any chain to be deployed on basement. dot fun, that is their website, and create their own game-specific roll-up. So not only is Uniswap getting its own app chain, but any single flash game that's ever existed can also get its own flash game.

It's like a layer 3. Yes. Game chain, game app chain. Game-specific roll-ups. That's pretty cool. Yeah. You can earn XP, BP, game tokens as well, so you can play games and earn tokens.

Of course, you can. because this is crypto, right? That was the crypto I was promised. Well, maybe it's here, David. It's not looking like the crypto I was promised, at least it's not looking like the October I was promised in the markets today. So let's talk about the Bitcoin price. And I need these prices for you.

You've been busy at the conference, so hopefully they're right. But what do the pricing say? Yeah, when Ryan Todd Adams puts into the prices, we all should. Everyone check out your own prices just in case. Yeah, plus or minus 10% here. 10%. Nonetheless, Bitcoin started the week, $60,000, $300. down one and a half percent. Not terrible, but below the $60,000 mark right now at the time of

recording, $59,545. Ether price starting the week, $2,330, up a percent and a half. 2,366 is where we are currently. But the real alpha is actually in the stock market. Okay. It should have been in stocks. Stocks are once again at all-time highs. I own fewer stocks, Ryan, then I own crypto. So my portfolio is not at all-time highs. Should we have pivoted to stocks a year ago, David? Yeah, right? When people were saying pivot to AI, yeah. Yeah, pivot to stocks. SMP, all-time highs, NASDAQ, like pretty much all-time highs. So this recession that everyone is talking about hasn't hasn't come. You remember the yen trade scare that happened? That was gone. That's a blip in the shorts. What was that? Was that late August, early October? I don't even remember. Neither does the

market. That's the good news. Should we check in on the ETF? So, the Ethereum ETF flows. David, there were a number of days that were like straight zero across the board. Zeros. Yeah, call it a wash for the past like, I don't know, until since October 3rd, like no meaningful inflows or outflows. Same with Bitcoin. We had a very big inflow days of $230 million on October 7th, but a couple days of $20 and $40 million outflows. Nothing terribly exciting happening in the ETF lands. Although I will say we have known this for a while, but here at the permission this conference, we had notable ETF experts, including

some Mara Cohen from BlackRock, kind of confirming our ideas about who is really buying these ETFs. Yeah, who is it? It's us. It's us? It's us. It's you and I? It's people, it's crypto people, taking Bitcoin, ether off chain and putting it into Black Rock into Bitwise, into fidelity. Okay. And, you know, that's, I think kind of was

against expectations. People like, oh, once we open up the ETFs, the boomers are going to come, it's going to inflow all this retail. Turns out it's like tax advantage accounts. You can actually get yield on your Bitcoin ETFs. And you can do security lenders with your Bitcoin ETS. And people, I think, are scarred from Celsius. And so that has actually attracted, you know, retail crypto-native capital.

But it's actually crypto-native capital here, which, you know, there's one take, which is, well, that's bearish because we were hoping it was outside capital. Yeah. But my take, which is bullish, is that, well, the outside capital hasn't even come yet. Oh, we're still early. It's still early. It is the best ETFs, the top two ETFs of all time. And it was just us.

This entire time, and we've still been early. That's great. Do you want to talk about the eth ratio or skip that on the week? Did it? 0.397, trying to get back above 0.04. But other than that, still in sad zone. Total crypto market cap, where are we out on the week? $2.21 trillion coming in still kind of low.

I want to see 2.5. I want to see 2.5. Are you looking at these jobs numbers? Let's switch to Tradfine markets for a second. I was not looking at these job numbers. Tell me about the jobs. numbers have been pretty good, apparently. So we've got a, the U.S. added far more jobs than expected in September.

So analysts, I guess, we're expecting a forecast of about 150,000 net new jobs. And we got 254,000 instead. So nice. Is that why stocks are at all-time highs? I think so. It's part of it. When we have more jobs, jobs are going up, people, is it, yeah, people are getting more jobs, and that is indicating a lack of recession.

And now that we are having cutting interest rates and people are getting more jobs, that is indication that the recession is just not likely, less and less likely, which is why the stock market is going up. Is that the analysis? I mean, the market's looking pretty good in general, right? So inflation looks like that has come down. Actually, let me go to this. Did you guess this Noah, NoSmith blog post here? I did not. The title is, let's pause to appreciate their remarkable U.S. economy.

And he goes over a few metrics. I thought this was pretty valuable. So number one, he talks about the job market. He's not looking at unemployment in this metric. He's looking at the employment population ratio. And apparently this rate is holding at 80.9%. So above 80%, which is higher than before the pandemic and is in fact the second highest rate in U.S. history.

Okay? And this is even a better indicator than unemployment for who wants a job. So pretty much everyone in the U.S. right now who wants a job, has a job. So that's one metric. We've got some other metrics here. He goes through. Of course, inflation. We've been talking a lot about that on bank list. This is basically back to normal, right? So we have CPI that is sort of back in the two to three percent range, which feels pretty good from that perspective. So we've got inflation. We've got jobs going well. Wages and productivity are both up. So this is a chart of labor productivity output for all workers in the U.S.

And if you're looking at this, you can see, I mean, we're kind of like close, close to a fairly good range and, you know, pre-COVID type ranges from productivity perspective. And wealth, I mean, this is, you know, some people look at wealth and they see inequality and that's also true. But like wealth is cruising towards all-time highs as well. Housing prices, a lot of good things in the U.S. economy at this point, including this, America is beating the world at this point. So this is real GDP growth in the G7 countries. America is growing faster than any other country. Yeah. And it has been for like since COVID.

And like fairly significant like significantly faster as well. I mean, it's just not not a small thing. The second place is Canada. Shout out America's hat. Yeah. Shout out Canada. Doing okay as well. Anyway, the entire TLDR of this post is the U.S. economy is doing pretty well.

Maybe we should pause and appreciate it. He does point to some storm clouds, which is deficit. Look at this last. This is federal surplus or deficit as a percentage of DDP. And we are like, looking like the 1940s, you know, wartime sort of deficits. So the question is, hey, how much are the deficits actually contributing to all of these good times? Right. So the economy's going super well, but the government is spending a lot.

Those are correlated. You'd also think that would be good for crypto. Not yet, though. We just have to wait for it. Maybe not October. We'll see. We still got a long. month, David. There's a lot of, I feel like it's a safe-ish time to be in the markets. The markets

feel like a safe place to be right now. It doesn't feel frothy. The recession feels to like a distant thing at this present moment. The only thing that's left for crypto is for people to care about crypto again. Yeah. Which is still a hard problem. And we'll talk about the permissionless conference, but that's been the vibe of the conference that we're attending as well. It's like not too hot, not too cold. Not too cold. It's like just right. We're in the Goldilocks zone of crypto. And I think that's a good place to accumulate. But we always say that, don't we? That's what we say.

Coming up next, the UniChain, finally here, how will it change Defi? Now that Uniswap, the biggest app on the Ethereum layer one is going to its own layer two inside of the Optimism Super Chain. HBO releases their Bitcoin documentary revealing who Satoshi is. They figured it out. No one in the Bitcoin space figured it out. HBO figured it out. Wow.

And also, Ethereum got a proposal for lowering block times that might not compromise staking whatsoever. So we're going to talk about all of this and more, but first a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible, especially Cracken, our preferred crypto exchange in 2024. If you do not have an account with Cracken, consider clicking the links in the show notes getting started with Cracken today. If you want a crypto trading experience backed by world-class security and award-winning support teams, then head over to Cracken, one of the longest-standing and most secure crypto platforms in the world. Cracken is on a journey to build a more accessible, inclusive, and fair financial system, making it simple and secure for everyone, everywhere to trade crypto. Cracken's intuitive trading tools are designed to grow with you, empowering you to make your first or your hundredth trade in just a few clicks. And there's an award-winning client support team available 24-7 to help you along the way, along with a whole range of educational guides, articles, and videos.

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Empower your future with Arbitrum. Visit portal.arbitrum.io to find out what's next on your web-free journey. Some people claimed it was inevitable. Others said it would never happen, but nonetheless, this week, Uniswop announced the UniChain, a brand new layer two designed to prioritize

the needs of defi users and protocols. It is a layer two, on the OP stack inside of the Optimism Super Chain developed in collaboration with FlashBots and optimism of course

FlashBots, flashbots, yeah I mean, it makes sense we'll get into the FlashBoss element in a second but some key benefits here very fast block times

Yes. 200 to 250 millisecond subblock times is what they're targeting is currently, the test net is currently clucking in. That's real fast, right?

One second block times that's very fast. Arbitrum has 250 millisecond block times. Solana has 400 millisecond block times. Okay. Uniswap is going for 200 to 250 millisecond block times, which if it comes faster than Arbit Trump can speed up his chain would make it the fastest chain in crypto period. That's pretty cool.

And this, of course, actually Tim Ruffgardin, who is the crypto economics expert out of Columbia, I believe. Real smart guy. Real smart guy. I'm dropping a Tim Ruffgarden take. Actually measured that when you lower block times, you strictly lower aggregate M.EV, which is important globally, but is it. important for the liquidity locus of crypto at large. So when Uniswap has its own chain with very fast block times, we are materially reducing the amount of MEV

that is getting extracted from the users and from the protocol, which is pretty cool. They've also got seamless multi-chain swapping because they're going to be a part of the super chain, and the super chain is going to come in with their interoperability plan soon. Swapping on the Uniswap will be very seamless inside of the super chain. And then I think how this is going to work is they're going to fix perfect interoperability inside of the super chain.

Yes. And then they're going to export those lessons to the rest of the... And let's remind people what the super chain is. This is the OP set of chains, right? So we've got a number of chains. A base is a part of the super chain. OPE. OPE main net.

Mode network. Zora. Is part of the super chain. A bunch of others, which I'm not able to pull off the top of my head right now. So all of that will feel like one chain. One chain. One seamless chain.

You won't even know. Like, it'll be seamless interoperability. The wallet experience will be all the same across all of these chains. I'd actually just, we are coming right off of the panel I was just at with Alex Gloucowski from ZKSink and he thinks that he can ship a perfect interoperability for the ZKSink elastic chain sooner than optimism can ship. Make them fight. Yeah. Which I think is just great.

Okay, so big question. Yep. I own some uny tokens. What does this do for my bags? Yeah, I mean, that's a very good question. You want to look at the charts and answer that question first? Well, strictly, they are, my bags are up first. 14.5%. Is that on the day? That is pretty good. It's in 24 hours. Wow, that's great. Yeah. Wait, so is this the market actually pricing a fundamental? Is that what just happened here? Yeah, that's right. Somehow, this news actually was not priced in. And now it's up $8.26. Wow. But also, that's because the uny chain will have uny token staking. And everyone likes to stake their tokens. And what do you get for staking your tokens?

This is what we asked Hayden on our podcast with him. So if you want to learn more about the Unichain, go to that podcast. It's in your podcast feed. You stake the tokens for money. You take the tokens. You get money. But you had to do some work. You have to do some work.

What's the work? I don't know. Do you know? Yeah. You have to, you know, a sequencer validation, basically. Oh, you're a sequencer. Yeah. You get to be a sequencer.

So it's like a work token for the Unichane network. Remember those? Work tokens? It's always been part of the plan. That's always been the plan. And what about the gas token? of the unichain? What do you think that'll be?

I have a guess. What? It's not the uny token. Okay. It's ETH. I hope it is. Because ETH is money. We didn't ask that question, actually.

I think we just assumed. Better be ETH. Better be ETH. What else is it going to be ETH? It's not going to be ETH. ETH is a dominant trading pair across Uniswap. It's going to be ETH. This is a good tweet I enjoyed from Seigar.

He said some really cool innovations in Uniswop's L2. Unis staking to power sequence or validation, which we just talked about, Proposer builder separation powered by T-E-E-E-Block builders. I want to get you to explain that. Also, pre-coms from builders leading to lower latencies and protection from transaction reverts. Some of these seem very flashbots inspired, very, you know, M-I-M-E-V reductionist, right? But what is this collection?

The proposer builder separation, the pre-comps, the protection from transaction reverts. What is that? And why is that important? Yeah, this is the flashbots influence here. TEEs is something that FlashBots has been meaningfully leaning into for a while now. We did an episode with Shay. I did an episode with Shay, so on the Bankless Premium Feed, all about TEs and the MEP supply chain.

Trusted execution environments. Trusted execution environments. Yeah, it's kind of like a, call it like a secure enclave for block building or other things in the MEP supply chain, sealing bids, protecting market orders, things like this. It's a little bit over my pay grade to fully flush. out on a weekly roll-up. But Hayden actually explained this very well on the episode as well. And so this is, it's both Unisop pioneering the app chain thesis into the Ethereum

Roll-up-Centric roadmap, as well as the whatever the frontier that Flashbbots is developing with MEV supply chains and TEEE as well. This is Hayden Adams saying, excited to announce the Unichane. This is the Labor of Love based on six years of designing and building in the DFI space. We think what we're building will be the best home for defy. That's very interesting. So in our conversation... I've heard the home for defy as a line for a handful of layers.

A lot of the L2s want to be the home for defy. I want to get your take on it. I also would like to be the home for defy. I mean, like the strongest, I think, take from Hayden in that episode that we did was basically, hey, Uniswap is doing the full stack, right? So we've got the app. We're doing the wallet stuff. We've got the, like, the protocol. We're doing kind of the decentralized exchange.

And now, like, a chain is kind of the full stack. completion of that. When you look across the full stack, you can build a like comprehensive user experience that is high quality second to none. So that was his case for Y unichane. And also, I think they want to be the home of liquidity for all of decentralized finance. But to your point, David, so does everybody else. A lot of other chains want to as well. How do you think this will emerge? Do you think this will be competitive with base? Do you think this will create kind of like a super chain mafia, you know, like competing against other economic zones. How do you think this all shakes out?

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to watch this. I think the biggest deployment of Uniswap after the Ethereum Layer 1 is, I think, Arbitrum's deployment of Uniswap, followed by bases, and now there's going to be a chain. And there's also other deployments of Uniswhip. So, K. Sink. There's Uniswap. There's like 20 deployments. So Ethereum.

Yeah, right. And so I think the Uniswap deployments inside of the Super Chain are going to kind of see liquidity to the unichain first. Base probably incentive-wise is begrudgingly going to seat it, but like they also are a part of like kind of the ethos of the super chain. So

super chain liquidity going to go to the chain. Non-super chain liquidity going to try to be retained. Arbitrum is going to try and retain its uniswap liquidity as hard as possible. And then I think add the amount of liquidity on the Ethereum layer one uniswap implementation of uniswap is going to go to the uniswap

chain as a function of how good it is to do seamless interoperable cross-chain swaps. If you have to like swap into, bridge into the unichain to then swap to bridge out, that's a lot of friction. People aren't going to do that. And if that's the case,

then people are going to stay on the Ethereum Layer 1. So I think the unichain to uniswap to uniswap implementation on the Ethereum layer 1, where that liquidity lies will kind of be an index of how healthy the Ethereum role of centric roadmap is. This is all MIT license, So completely open source, so anyone can sort of fork it. I think there's the objection out there.

Okay, so like you guys are launching another yet another Ethereum chain, right? That's going to fragment things further. And I think we're in the stage in Ethereum where we've fragmented a lot. And now we're going to reconverge. So it's like this pendulum swinging from divergence back to convergence. And now we're moving back into the convergence era because I think what's going to happen, David, is we're going to have these super chain economic zones, whether it's kind of the arbitram stack or the ZK stack or the OPEC stack, they're going to be

seamless and completely interoperable. Inside of themselves. Inside of themselves. So you'll have four or five big economic zones. And then between these economic zones, we'll have intent standards that will pretty much provide abstracted. It'll feel like composability to an end user. It won't be complete, you know, atomic synchronous composability, as Justin Drake says, across

these different economic zones. but it'll feel pretty close. And that's how Ethereum will all converge together. And I, for one, I'm pretty excited that there's more competition in the space. Even against base, I'm so excited about base and everything that they've done. In fact, Jesse, you know, congratulated Hayden and the team for rolling this out. But it's good to see some competition in the mix because we don't want any of the L2s to become absolute dominant, you know, L2s and kind of like control everything across all of the ecosystems.

Yeah. You brought up Intents. Intents are both going to help across the frameworks like Arbitrum and the super chain will be gapped by Intense. But also internally to the super chain, Intense will also fill the gaps between chains. So even inside of these economic zones, Intense still kind of feel the gap here. I know Hart from across has actually been a part of this whole unichain effort. Because how are you going to swap on unichain without swapping your assets over to the chain? It's kind of going to be through intense. I think a cross is playing a large role here. And even, again, I was just on the panel with Alex from ZK Sync. And ZK chains actually have stronger cross-chain composability tech than the OP stacks do. That's just what ZK stacks do. And even ZK stacks will still need intense, at least in the short term, to still fill the gaps

between their chains. And so I think this is how this is going to go. All of these frameworks are going to achieve perfectly, perceived interoperability amongst themselves. We're going to learn lessons about how they did that for their own internal systems. We're going to be able to export those lessons to across the frameworks after that.

Someone who came on the bankless podcast two years ago also wrote an article predicted this was Dan Elitzer. We should just like... Shout out Dan. Once again nailed it. Yeah, this is his tweet. He doesn't take many at-bats, but when he does, he hits them out of the park.

He's like five for five. Yeah, exactly like two. years ago, September 29th, 2022, he said, he wrote a blog post called the inevitability of the unichane. And I think his take was like apps want to receive some portion of the value that they create through MEV. They don't want to give that all to validators. And so they'll all launch their own chains. Anyway, very, very prescient post. Did you notice this? David, at the time, Vitalik replied back in 2022 to this tweet. And he said he had a hard time believing Dan's argument. He didn't think necessarily that uniswap would have its own app chain.

He said because the main value proposition of uniswops, you can go and trade, done in 30 seconds. A uniswap chain or even a roll-up makes no sense in that context. Rather, a copy of uniswap, and every roll-up does. Where do you think he was coming from back then? And what do you think he would say now? I think this take came inside of the era of the pre-economic zone layer twos. Yeah. So in 2022, it was optimism.

and arbitram and polygon. And that was it. There was no super chain. There was no elastic chain. There was no, the idea of economic zones with interoperability between chains was not an idea yet. And so in that world,

we haven't even had the conversation of Ethereum as being fragmented yet. People were just having fun in layer two land. And so I think that was a 2022 date take. And now that we have these economic zones with, you know, intense or now, thing. This was also pre-intense. So there's just like a lot of tech that just wasn't there yet. It is interesting that Dan cited one of the reasons why unichain was inevitable was because of

MEV. Uniswap was one, and it still is one of the largest burners of ETH, which is coming out of swappers and LPs. Yeah. Like it's Uniswop, the app, leaking MEV. And so why make an app chain? Why make the unychain? Well, it's because they want to retain MEV. And I think that's right. But also Hayden and Dan Dan Robinson from Paradigm kind of made an update to that take. Dan Robinson says, the unichain is not about capturing MEV for their sequencer,

is about building a platform with consistent rules that lets apps and users, not sequencers, control their MEV. And so what the uni chain, I think, is going to do is it is going to recapture the MEV, just like Dan Leaser said, but not to pump it into the uni token, but rather to give it back to LPs

and give it back to users and just have a really efficient exchange. Yeah, ultimately, I guess, you know, the hope is all of these MEV fees get back to users in the end, apps and then users in the end. One question for you, David, what do you think about Ethereum layer one? There's been an ongoing conversation that we've been involved in, which is, like, the difference between the D5 belongs on the layer one versus D5 belongs on layer two. And the truth is, different types of D5 belong on layer one versus layer two, and you can kind of do both. but this would seem like uniswap is the largest a defy protocol on Ethereum, the layer one, the most successful.

You think this is bad for the Ethereum may not? Of course, all of this, the L2s are built on top of Ethereum at the end of the day, but does this kind of, you know, take away some of the value proposition of ETH the asset? I don't think so at all. And I think this whole like layer one, layer two debate is getting heavily over-indexed on. Yet nonetheless, if you are at permissionless,

this is coming out after my talk, but I'm in a debate tomorrow with Kyle Samani and Max Resnick, but on my team is Jill Gunter from Espresso. Yeah. So it's David Hoffman and Jill versus Kyle and Max about whether or not layer two are extensions of Ethereum. In the future, there will not be, it's a layer two, it's a layer three, or what are we doing with a layer one? It's just going to be Ethereum. And the way that that take is incorrect, I think, is in the world where there's like a very small minority, a very dominant. layer twos. I don't like that future. I do like the future where there is a wide pluralist

mesh network of app chains like the unichain, along with generalized layer two's, but with other features as well, base roll-ups, stronger layer one execution. We can actually really start to blur the line between what is the layer one and the layer two. Max Resnick wants to quote-unquote make Ethereum great again by increasing the execution capacity of the Ethereum layer one in order to bring defy back to the layer one. I agree with the direction. We should increase execution of the layer one, but that's because it makes

layer two execution better, and it also makes interoperability between layer two is also better. I want fast block times at the layer one, not to bring back defy to the layer one, but because it allows for a mesh network of defy apps to exist across the layer two. And there will be strong execution fees

at the layer one, because we have the uny chain and the Avey chain, and the maker now sky chain, and the maker now sky chain, and and all these other chains, and all of those are going to be executed on by the layer one. And Eith being money across all of these economic zones as well. When all the apps are capturing all the value, there's nothing left other than money. So you're fighting with Kyle Simani, too.

Not just Kane Warwick, huh? Oh, your boys in a fighting mood. Man, you are just fighting everybody this week. And speaking of, I have to actually go square off against Kane. What is squaring off? They're going to take the photo of me and Kane, like, holding our fists up at each other. Yes. So I got to go.

Were you get close, like, nose to nose? Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Oh, that's been great. If I had more time, I would have pulled some prank on him, like bottom flowers. Like, this is something that fighters do. Yeah, I know. You're a fighter now, so you got to do these things.

I got to go square off with Kane. I'll be right back and we're going to resume the weekly roll up. But for you listener, it's just going to start right now. Okay, David, that was crazy, man. I just watched you in a face off with Kane Warwick. That took about an hour. So we're back. It took a longer than expected, yeah.

That was hype, man. There was promo. There was like, they asked you questions. You said Cain was like a tree, pretty easy to knock down. Tall guy, but skinny guy, you know? Won't take too many swings. Oh, I still can't believe you're doing this. It's like, guys, it's like David up there on stage with a whole bunch of like

MMA looking fighters. It's just so, it's crazy to think we've gotten this far. Yeah, in my crypto journey, I didn't necessarily have fighting another founder on my Binkgo card. This is what's happening, though. Nick Carter is the reason why I'm here, and he's nowhere to be found. Somehow, he's elsewhere. Anyway, we'll talk about more of that at the end of the show. Let's get to the HBO documentary, because this was another big reveal.

This was... Big news of the week is we discovered who Satoshi is. Yeah, the revelation of Satoshi, and this was hyped up. So HBO premiered a documentary called Money Electric, the Bitcoin Mystery. It was based on this marketing claim that they had figured out who Satoshi Nakamoto was. the founder of Bitcoin. So everyone was curious going in as to who they would point to as the founder. And maybe some set up here.

If you don't know, there have been people who have done thousands and thousands of hours of work going through Satoshi emails, Bitcoin Talk forums, cross-referencing time of day of posts with like geolocation. The wording, the language, the writing style. Writing style, just like the deepest kind of analytics, people have tried to figure out Satoshi. This is not the first time that anyone has ever tried to figure out Satoshi. To this day, we have a list of people, which so Satoshi could be. But also, if Satoshi wasn't anyone on the list of likely candidates, I don't think that would also surprise anyone.

Do you want to see the list, David? So this is a polymarket, and there was a bid for who will the HBO documentary identify a, Satoshi, right? So here's HBO, of course, after all the work that everyone has put in saying, hey, we figured it out. Everyone else, we figured it out. And look at all of these names. So Gavin Wood, Gavin Wood, that's interesting. Nick Zabo, Craig, Craig Wright, Hal Finney, Dorian Nakamoto, Wade, Adam, Adam, Adam, Back, Gavin Andrew. These are some of the Elon Musk. Jedman. Yeah. Yeah, these are some of the usual suspects I typically see. But a lot of names. A lot of names. And Interestingly enough, like, I know this isn't actually who is Satoshi.

This is who will HBO name as Satoshi. Exactly. Which is different. But the amount of money spread around these people is thin, as in like no one has actually decided it's anyone. Like, no, it could be anyone. Okay. So who did they name? Peter Todd, who is a Bitcoin OG developer in the space?

I think you and I have both gotten into Twitter fights with him. We've interacted with Peter Todd. He's been around. He's like, he's a old school Bitcoin Maxi. He's a Bitcoin developer, too. Bitcoin developer, yeah, that's right. That's right. They named, they actually, they didn't even name Peter Tata's Satoshi.

They kind of, like, accused him of being Satoshi. Should we watch the clip? Let's watch the clip, which is kind of the climax of the whole, I didn't watch the documentary, but this clip, I think, really just kind of encapsulates it. Yeah, this shows what the vibe of the documentary was. Here it is. A concept which you had envisioned years earlier, but you needed some kind of cover in order to make.

And you also needed some cover for that 2010 post. Yeah, because I was Satoshi. I mean, yeah. You know, you're very concerned about all the privacy stuff. So you reach out to your old buddy Adam back. You say, we need to do something about this, but we need to pay the devs. But you can't join Blockstream because it would look too suspicious. So you don't.

I will admit, you're pretty creative. You come with some crazy theories. It's ludicrous. But it's a sort of theory someone. who spends the time as a documentary during what's come up with. So yeah, yeah, I'll say, of course, I'm Satoshi and I'm Craig Wright. And yes, I was definitely covering that little bit about, you know, fees to go pretend to be Satoshi or not Satoshi, one or the other.

Why make up the whole John Dylan thing? Well, like I said, I'm not John Dylan. Okay. Sorry, I'm not John Dylan. I don't know who that is. I'll warn you, this is going to be very funny when you put this into the documentary and a bunch of Bitcoiners watch it. That was Peter Todd speaking the entire time with Adam Back.

Adam Back also kind of chuckling in the background. Okay, so what do you think about Peter Todd as Satoji? I mean, I think a bunch of people who don't know anything about Satoshi came into the industry and it was like, you know what, let's go figure out who Satoshi is. Got as close as they could that they needed to to make a movie out of it and now we're watching it. It was super late. I feel like it's pretty crazy. It was pretty good.

Like a better way to do a documentary like this is to go through the evidence for each of the names on that list and leave it as a question mark but do the deep dive due diligence for everyone not to just if you're not confident in your answer that's okay it's still a good story yeah they were following

Peter Todd around with a camera like accusing him of being Satoshi and this is just like absolutely ludicrous he would be like pretty low on my list of actual Satoshi suspects so Peter Todd replied of course I'm not Satoshi in the aftermath of this it's ironic that a director who is also known for

documentary on QAnon has resorted to QAnon-style coincidence-based conspiracy thinking here too. Much hype about nothing. I feel like this is a big nothing burger, David. It is a big nothing burger. Yeah, we're talking about it. It was good viral marketing. Yeah. But I think, like, the viewers of this documentary are just going to be, like,

Bitcoiners and crypto people hate watching it because of how cringe it was. Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure who this documentary was for at the end of the day. Unless any new data comes out, we are at the end of the discoverability of Satoshi. Like, no one is going to figure it out. If they haven't figured out by now, it's actually in the history. Yeah. The halls of history.

Here's an example of an angry Bitcoin or take. HBO documentary is disgusting. It's baffling. They reach this conclusion when all Bitcoin experts disagree. It's like making a flat earth documentary without review from scientists and promoting it as unveiling Earth secrets, the flat Earth. There you go. We still do not know who. Satoshi Nakamoto is, and it's probably better off that way that we don't.

Let's talk about... Hock Tua. Hock Tua? Wait. That's who's on your screen right now. Oh. I thought it was pretty funny. So Haktua girl, she just tweets out, HBO was wrong. I'm Hock Toshi Tua Moto.

And there's a Hock Tua laser-eyed Michael Saler-esque meme-A-I-generated meme that she created. I thought it's pretty funny. Man, she knows how to get into, like, every single week's news. The crypto Twitter community has. somehow like I found the attention of Hawk to a girl. Does she, does she have a meme coin? She does not have a meme coin. Not that I know of.

I mean, not yet. She's got a Madlax PFP. And now she's doing sailor memes. That's wild. Nothing about Ethereum, though. Can I tell you about FBI coin, David? The FBI coin? Yeah, so it's like, it's not like maybe I oversold that.

It's not an FBI coin. So here's the headline this comes from, from Reuters. The U.S. charges three companies and 15 people with cryptocurrency fraud. Oh, that's not a coin at all. Yeah, so apparently these were market-making companies, and they primarily market-made for meme coins. So where that eventually led was, of course, pump and dump. Mark, was it market-making? Fake trade volume, you know, all those sorts of things.

The interesting part of this story is not that they were busted, although that in itself is interesting, is the lengths the FBI actually went to. You know, the FBI is very famous for going undercover, you know, doing things surreptitiously. Well, in this case, what they actually did was they learned. launched a token, David. The FBI launched their own token, and they formed this company, is called the Next Fund AI token with a company around it, Next Fund AI. And here's a quote, the FBI took the unprecedented step of creating its very own cryptocurrency token and company to identify, disrupt, and bring these alleged fraudsters to justice. The Next Fund AI token was a

cryptocurrency token created at the direction of law enforcement. So this is the FBI with a crypto wallet like minting a coin in order to lure these pump and dump, you know, scammers. Pump and dump market makers. So they wanted to be a client of these market makers who are actually pump and dump, you know, in order to identify them in order. I don't know if this, you know, what is, like, does this cross the line into entrapment? I'm not a lawyer. I don't understand these types of things, but. Does the FBI, are they behold into entrapment? I don't even know. I don't know how that works. But anyway, this is Next Fund AI. They had an entire website around this. And this is how they rooted out this group of market makers,

and now they're in cussie. Your job is to make a trap meme coin to target, to find scammers. What was interesting is actually Zach XPT actually predicted this. The downfall of Gottbit, which is these market makers. One of the market makers? One of these three companies. He tweeted out in September of 2023, so a year ago, I would be wary of any projects you see working with the market maker Gottbit

as a leaked report shows highly questionable services being offered. They claim, during the first minutes in the price discovery stage, we are going to push the price up to 10x to pay FOMO and accumulate as much buying power as we can to reach extreme Xs. Wow. Not even trying to hide it. Some tokens on the subsequent spike. And I think the people are asking, like, well, is that illegal? And the FBI is saying, yes, yes, it is illegal. I know crypto Twitter is incredibly excited about meme coins. It's just like, as I've said before I'm back, this is kind of like not my thing.

So, like, people are free to do it. Fantastic. If you like meme coins, go do it. I will say, though, there's so much surface opportunity for scams and frauds in the meme coin world. There's this, like, narrative that, like, you know, only the VCs do the pump and dump. They're dumping on retail, and meme coins are pure and good and noble and true. And then, like, you see cases like this. It's very easy to manipulate these markets.

And that's actually what's happening behind the scenes. Meme coins are pure in that there wasn't structural amounts of cash. capital getting early, like VCs are not getting early on meme coins. Yeah. But somebody is still getting early somewhere. And it's actually not structural. It's actually not really known by the market. And so I think this is kind of opening up the question is like, how do we ask and get

transparency out of meme coins? Well, yeah, some of the meme coin influencers are under the microscope. So this is Anson. This is actually polymarket on Ansem. Ansem criminal charges. Will he face criminal charges in 2024? And there's a 10% chance that he will. This actually spiked up at some various points in time.

Right, right when these criminal charges got released. There was also, earlier in the week, David, Zach XPT, yet again, released a list, docks the wallets of Marad. So Bankless Sisters, maybe you saw Marad. He's going all around crypto Twitter. He was at token 2049. He is sort of the Messiah of meme coins, kind of the most current manifestation of sort of, I think you would say, a cult leader of meme coins. He basically thinks they're incredibly bullish. He thinks this is the breakout retail use case.

And he has a list of meme coins that he thinks are going to like 10x, 100x this cycle. And Zach XPT disclosed a set of his wallets, $25 million worth of meme coins. And a lot of people are saying, hey, why are you doxing someone in crypto? Like, not cool. That's dangerous. Don't do that. Zach's reply was, you know, Maraud requires some accountability. He is the one promoting these.

meme coins, we should know whether he's pumping, dumping, dumping, like, whether he's selling? Like, this transparency is necessary. What's your take on this? I think if you are using public influence and you are talking about mean coins, then the public does deserve some level of transparency about what's going on. That is what I think. I think that is fair.

Yeah. Disclosures. Disclosures. Disclosures are just a totally fair thing to ask for. Hey, banknotes.com slash disclosures, right? Yeah, that's right. see our activities. Yeah.

And so, okay, so there's like the highly illegal, like, definitely on the black and white side of things, definitely in the black activities of this, like, market making funds that the FBI went after. And then there's, there's, like, a spectrum of, like, questionable activity before there. And then there's, like, highly legit activity. And, like, we, the cryptocurrency players of the meme coin game exists across all spectrums of that, like, you know, above boredness or below boredness. And I think that's, like, why A&Some is that, like, 10% and not, like, 1% or, 100%. There's not a clear

line as to like what's a clear pump and dump or what is what it would be kind of like organic market activity. I feel like people think there's not some clear lines, but these market makers, right? Doing wash trading. Like clearly, I mean, you read the text market makers website. We're going to just

100x this coin. The intent there was like pretty damage. Use some common sense. If it's illegal in the real world, it's definitely illegal in crypto and these things will catch up to you. It's all on chain. David, what we got coming up. Coming up next, a brand new EIP to make all of Ethereum a layer 1, 33% better. We're going to talk about that. Gary Gensler sends another Wells notice, but then he just gets

a Uno reverse card paid right in his face. And then we're also going to talk about permission list because this conference, I think, has been great and I want to talk to you about it. But we're going to get to all of these subjects and more, but first at a moment to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible. New projects are coming online to the Mantle Layer 2 every single week. Why is this happening? Maybe it's because Mantle has been on the frontier of layer two design architecture since it first started building Mantle DA, powered by technology from EigenDA.

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and simplify your blockchain journey and start building today. a new crypto company on the block to get a Wells notice from the SEC. Welcome Crypto.com to the Cool Kids Club. Congratulations on your Wells Notice. Also, even cooler responding with just suing the SEC in response. So the SEC, what's a Wells notice? A Wells notice is the SEC saying, hey, we intend to sue you in the future. Heads up, we're going to sue you. Hets up, we're going to sue you. And then Crypto.com is saying, we are currently suing you as a response to you threatening to sue us. Yeah. What do they sue them for? Like, what's Crypto.com saying? Okay, so Crypto.com says it is suing the SEC after receiving a Wells notice from them.

According to the complaint, the Wells Notice involves allegations that Crypto.com is operating as an unregistered broker-dealer and securities clearing agency. Man, I have heard this movie so many times before. In the complaint, it says the SEC is now threatening enforcement action against Crypto.com in regard to secondary market sales of tokens on the platform, even though the SEC does not have jurisdiction over those sales and cannot lawfully regulate the market, absent action from Congress, act recognized by members of the commission itself. So just kind of just like stiff-arming the SEC. And the Wells notice was, again, for like, you know, selling illegal securities. Doing what Coinbase does, what Cracken does,

like all the other reasons why all these other companies have gotten Wells notices. And I think, like, crypto, since, like, crypto.com is, like, the seventh company to get one of these. They're just, like, stuffing it. They're just, like, take it to the court. So, fine. So, SEC Commissioner Mark Uaida was on, Fox business actually and commented on this. So let's play that.

What is the SEC doing regarding crypto? Well, I think our policies and our approach for the last several years have been just really a disaster for the whole industry. We have been setting this policy through enforcement. We've done nothing to provide guidance on it. And as a result, this has been shaped by the courts. And different courts have ruled different ways.

I think what this Wells notice is, and while I won't comment on the specifics of this litigation, the wells what has gone on as part of a broader frustration with the fact that we have not provided interpretive guidance as to what you can and cannot do and if you are involved in some sort of securities offering how you register how you get regulated as a broker dealer how you get registered as exchange listen to that david our approach this is the cc commission not hester purse another cc commissioner saying our approach to crypto has been a disaster Absolutely disaster. Saying this publicly.

It's very refreshing to hear that. There was a reflection from Gabe Shapiro about Gary Gensler's strategy. He said this. Crypto.com suing the SEC after a Wells notice. Gensler went with probably the highest risk, highest reward strategy imaginable for a careerist liberal term Democrat. In my opinion, he will be remembered for losing big, but he will be remembered. What is Gary's strategy here? He just keeps losing. He's like losing faith of the public, his own commissioners.

the government, I don't know who is still in his court. I guess he'll be remembered, but maybe not in the way he intends. Yeah, I guess we'll kind of see what the end game is with what happens to him at the end of this election. I don't think he is going to stay put in either presidency. I don't think he's going to be the SEC commissioner. Worst case is that he stops being SEC commissioner where he gets promoted by Kamala. But I think there's a plenty valid path that Kamala actually also quietly fires him and pretends like the Democrats were never.

actually pro-Gensler ever. But we know the Trump administration is very anti-Gensler. One of the big things that happened this week, Robin Hood, Chief Legal Officer Dan Gallexer,

is one of the leading candidates for Gary Gensler's replacement if Trump wins. So Trump is talking about the current Robin Hood CLO Chief Legal Officer Dan, who's actually a previous SEC Commissioner, I believe,

previously a Republican SEC Commissioner from 2011 to 2015. Yeah. And so one of the candidates for the SEC Commission or if Trump wins, I think that would be very good. Gallagher, I think, would be very pro-Crypto. So that would be a fantastic Gary Gensler replacement.

There's some EIP news coming out on the week. So something about improving the layer one. What was this EIP? It's like a global 33% improvement of Ethereum of a number of different metrics. So EIP 7781 to make Ethereum faster by 33% authored by Ben Adams, a Nethermind co-founder, one of the client teams of Ethereum, reduce block times by 33% from 12 seconds to 8 seconds, which would reduce the based roll-up latency,

would increase, of course, transaction throughput by 33%, which would also increase the number of blobs. So we can actually keep the blob count the same. We can keep the gas target the same, but everything else just gets 33% faster. More capacity for layer two. It's actually starting to fill up, right? What are we like 75, 80% at capacity?

We're not far away from at capacity with blobs. And we do not want to be at capacity with blobs. always want to have Slack for more blobs. Because... Because then you induce more demand for blobs by increasing more layer twos, which is the roll-up-centric roadmap. Sure. More app chains.

And we just got the uny chain. But what about the Avey chain? What about the Maker Dow chain? What about all the other app chains? And our existing layer twos are just getting started, just getting started. So they're going to be hungry for some blob space. The nice thing about this EIP is it doesn't actually increase a solo staker bandwidth requirements, at least the peak bandwidth

requirements. So you're not going to have to get like a faster connection as a solar solo staker for peak time. So it's a nice compromise from that perspective. I want to zoom out and ask the question. I actually don't know how that works. Yeah. How do we not increase the bandwidth

but we are increasing the block size? You're increasing the bandwidth but my understanding is you're not increasing the peak bandwidth which is kind of the constraint here, a bit more of the constraint. And I'm not sure the subtleties or are technicalities that go into that, but it might be a nice compromise.

It was cool seeing a Vitalik's comment where he thinks that we can make a trade-off. He's saying the 32-Eth staking barrier is actually a larger barrier than the bandwidth requirements. It's capital. It's expensive. What if we lowered the barrier down to some lower minimum like 16?

And then we also up to the bandwidth requirements. And so taking down 32 to 16 would, like, in theory, double the amount of solo staker supply available. Yeah. But then you can use that slack that you just created by upping the bandwidth requirements. So more solo-sakers are enabled by lowering the bandwidth and by lowering the ether requirements.

And then you can kind of find more of those solo-sakers in higher networked areas to be solo-sakers, 16-Eatth solo-sakers in high network areas. So what do you think? Do you think the conversation around improving the layer one in Ethereum has resulted in this EIP being proposed and being tracked? I think this EIP is a direct reaction to some of the recent, Ethereum roadmap conversations. And again, all of the Ethereum roadmap conversations, I was listening to a Tushar talk here at Permission List and he was talking about, and even Kyle at Token was like, oh yeah, and Ethereum is now doing soul searching around its roadmap.

And we're like, yo, buddy, like, let's calm it down. We are talking about merely reprioritizing a future part of the roadmap and bringing it up to today. And that is what this EIP is. Yeah, some gradual incremental changes that we can get in fairly quickly, which is. good. Yeah, I think that's, that's bullish. David, do you see this video clip from the IMF? This is a, her name is Julie Kozak. She's a director of communications at the IMF. So this is a big banking cabal, the international monetary fund. And this clip that we're about to play, it's kind of, it's almost like chilling. This is the IMF telling a sovereign country, the sovereign country of El Salvador, what to hold on their balance sheet and cautioning them about holding Bitcoin.

Let's play it. With respect to the details on Bitcoin, what we have recommended is a narrowing of the scope of the Bitcoin law, strengthening the regulatory framework and oversight of the Bitcoin ecosystem, and limiting the public sector exposure to Bitcoin. You hear that? So the IMF says,

if you want to play with the big banks like us, you better limit the public sector exposure to Bitcoin. Get that Bitcoin off your balance sheet. The juxtaposition of like one of the members, the leaders of the biggest bank income ball in the world, telling a nation state that they need to limit public sector accessibility of Bitcoin is like the exact opposite of what I'm here to do. Right.

That is just the opposite of what I want. The audacity of someone telling a country that they're going to limit the public, the public, in any way. You don't get to just limit the public. That's a check on El Salvador's democracy. Yeah, absolutely. It's, yeah, anyway. Unlimit the public. They said the quiet part out loud.

Yeah, it was like, do you hear yourself, ladies? I don't understand. Oh, also, there's some news while you were away fighting. I added this link to the roll-up. So the World Liberty Financial released some additional details. One, World Liberty Financial, of course, this is the AVE-D-Fi protocol. Some people are calling this Trump-Fi. You know, it's like Trump-Sund's version of Defi on Avey.

So two things happen. One is there's rumor of a raise, a $1.5 billion raise. Valuation, I should say, $300 million raise. $1.5 billion valuation. and they also posted on the AVE governance forms. Oh, they're in the AVE governance forms? Yeah, they're in the AVE governance forms. And they're basically proposing that AVEA would earn 20% of protocol fees generated by this AVEV3 instance and receive 7% of WLFI tokens at World Liberty Financial's actual tokens in exchange for, I suppose, using AVE in this way.

Interesting. Okay. So it's increasingly like World Liberty Financial is just a re-skinned white list of AVE. And they're also making economic transaction, proposing economic transactions with AVE for incentive alignment. Yeah, I mean, it's not crazy. Whether it will have any traction or product market fit, whether anyone's like, oh, this is a unique user experience. You know, like I got it. I got to use, I don't want to use just generic AVE.

I want to use TrumpFi. Whether there's a market for that, I don't know. but yeah the fact of the matter is there probably is right there probably is um and the fact of the matter is maybe the market vc is anyway are valuing this at 1.5 billion oh they're going to do this well they're they're going to do a like a token as well so this is not a straight iCO i believe it'll be accredited investor type

tokens it'll have lockups so you know it could be angels could be vCs could be all sorts of capital of this supply will be sold to the public in the future i guess the point though is it's it's ave you know it's like nothing crazy here. Right. So. Right. Well, it's, it's AVE in the back end, but you're investing in distribution.

You're investing in AVE distribution. Well, honestly, hugely bullish for AVE. Well, this is what Mark Zeller says. The valuation, just with the 7% of tokens that World Liberty Financial would give to the AVE Dow, that's valued at $105 million dollars at a $1.5 billion valuation. So, thank you. I mean, if World Liberty Financial is successful, you would think, that it would attract

at least a couple billion dollars of deposits into World Liberty Financial into Ave. If World Liberty Financial is at all successful, it's just like Avey just wins.

And the World Liberty wins, but Ave wins. I mean, it's increasingly not looking like a scam, right? It could be a white label, low value proposition things. I'm not going to call it the most innovative projects?

It's definitely not. No. But also, again, like, what is crypto need the most? Sure. Use of capital and dividend and distribution. Well, another thing it needs, actually, is protection from, you know, regulators like Gary Gensler who are trying to shut it all down.

And this is Donald Trump doing it. So it's, I mean... Imagine having, like, the president of the United States is, like, associated with your, like, DFI protocol. Yeah. Can you get FDIC insurance on World Liberty Financial? I have no idea what's going to happen. I have no idea. Propository protections.

Well, this is a project that's worth looking at. So we'll continue to provide you guys updates. All right, David, let's, as we get to the close of this. weekly roll up. Let's talk about permissionless. So how's the conference been for you, man? Well, first I actually want to get your take because your last conference was permissionless too. And the one before that was permissionless one. Yep. How does this one compare? I feel like this is, you know, higher quality is what I would say. Not that the previous ones were low quality, but this is even higher quality. So the content, the speakers, phenomenal,

the people I'm running into talking to, I think we're still in the settler. area. And I think all of kind of the people who are here for just like, you know, meme coin and just like short-termism type stuff, they went to Singapore. Yeah, they did not come to permission list. They didn't come here. So what you're seeing is really high quality, like the events that I'm going to, the people I'm talking to, I mean, these are defy crypto settlers in the U.S. And it's, yeah, it's just great to see. So higher quality. Also, again, at the intro, you said, it feels like the Goldilocks zone right now of crypto, where we've been to permissible. permissionless one was like too much.

It was, we're still in hype season, you know, it was a little too much. And then permissionless two was, you know, bare market blues. This is like right. It's perfect. A lot of building going on. Yeah. It feels like a little bit of East Denver 2019 for me. Yeah.

Where that was also the last East Denver before the East Denver side event meta really cropped up. I think permissionless is the last, I'll call it monolithic conference. you've been paying attention because I come and tell you about all these conferences that I go to. All of them have just like sharded into a thousand side events. Oh, they fragment into side events because people, because side events are kind of cool. And so people are running around like maniacs trying to go to as many side events as possible. No one's end up going to the main events anymore.

And then you go from like, you know, breakfast, lunch, dinner, side events to happy hour side events to parties. And permission is actually just not any of that. It's actually the last monolithic conference that I think exists. The content's good. The content is really good. I'm going to leak a statement from somebody who I actually can't name, but she's a very, very prominent person in the crypto industry, and was like told my source,

do not schedule any meetings for me in the first day, the first day of Wednesday because I want to go to all of the talks. Oh, wow. Which is pretty cool. That's really cool. And I think yesterday there were like three side events. One of them was Galaxy Digital, another one, I can't remember. And then the third one was ours.

Three total side events is like, unheard of, and they all started after the conference ended. So the conference ended at like four, side events started at six. It was side events for hanging out. It wasn't side events for like, no, ums,

club side events. Like we had our side event, had a brewery with a ton of space. Oh, it was so chill. Like, it was great not being in a massive crowd. Yeah. I don't know, you've never been to like these oversaturated side events, but like,

they're just, I know the vibe. Yeah, I know the vibe. There's like a lot of fitness going on. I'm just looking at people to have. having a pull-up bar competition behind you. There's a flex arm hanging over there. Tomorrow, there is, no, tonight, actually,

there's a pickleball tournament. Yeah. There's a run this morning. There's actually a lot of activities going on. Yeah, Ben from Bankless Ventures put on a run. This is Jesse Ectel, who had the pleasure of meeting. The Bankless sits at the party. Day one of permissionless,

and it's already my favorite conference I've ever attended. No fluff. The people here are the top 1% of the space. Haven't had a boring conversation yet. I've loved nearly every single talk in session I've attended, not zoning out halfway through. And then he gave a shout out for the bankless meetup. He said it was the best side event he's ever been to.

No blaring club music. And I could actually talk to you a lot. The number of times I have been at some sort of club-based side event. And I am yelling in a crowd of three other people about some niche crypto infratopic while there is a DJ and laser lights in the background. And like that's the whole side of it. Honestly, that's what I want to talk to people about. I'm with my nerds.

Only once a year. I want to talk about nerdy shit. I'm sorry. So we got a brewery. It's a big outside space. I'm doing Jenga for like two hours yesterday. Jenga. That's so good.

Okay, but that's not the end. All right. So bankless listeners, this comes out on Friday. What's today? The 11th. It's coming out Friday the 11th. Yeah. So this evening, David is going to be fighting.

He's going to be. Friday evening. Friday evening. So when people hear this, it'll be your evening, David will be fighting in, is not the octagon. In the karate combat pit. Look at this.

I've got a picture on the, screen of what the pit looks like. This is, you know, like just adjacent to the conference so people can go there. And we will be live streaming this event. Okay. So I think I'm going to be commenting it. Maybe it will have someone with me. I have no idea what I'm going to say or what's going to happen, having never attended one of these events before. But we'll be watching David Live. And you were challenging Kane Warwick. Of synthetics. Yeah. Who we just invested in. Yes. So two rounds, right? Two, two minute rounds.

rounds, two minutes each with an optional third round if there's a tie. There needs to be a tie breaker of one minute. And the kind of like, it's the influencer flight club. People are going for the spectacle. If you make it both rounds, like you get the third round. Oh, you get a third. Okay. You get the third round just to do the tiebreaker. Yeah. So maximum possible five minutes. All right. So I was just there at the face off thing. Kane said he was going to knock David out. Yeah. He did say that. I mean, anyway. I mean, everyone says. Everyone really said, let's be real. I wasn't going to say it just because, like, everyone says that.

This is the polymarket right now. You're up a little bit on the week, David. 37% chance. Maybe that's not... Polymarket is fading me. Polymarket's fading. There's another market with some more favorable numbers as maybe more reflective of the reality.

It's 24 hours ahead of the fight. The actual karate combat market goes up, which is a very similar market. It's... Instead of winning one-sides money, you'd actually just win karate token to miss. Yeah. It's kind of like up only betting.

No one actually loses money. But these are the people, these are like the karate combat fans, the people who like open up the app who follow along with the league. Okay. I'm going to call this the smart money. Of course they are.

Who understands the league and fighters and fighting. So what's the smart money saying? Unlike polymarket, which clearly has a bunch of emotional feelings baked into the market. And the smart money, we should say, is 80% odds. 82% odds, David Hoffman.

That was this morning. It might be dropping a little bit, but it's much higher, much more favorable to David Hoffman. So, guys, if you want to catch that, see Bankless Fight Night? I don't know what it's going to be. Bankless Carotty Combat. Friday Combat. We'll be streaming that on Bankless YouTube, so just type Bankless and YouTube.

And we can watch David live, tear him on, bet with him, hopefully not bet against him, and wait for him to knock down that tall tree, which is Kane Warwick. Tall, Tall skinny tree. Tall skinny tree. All right, let's end it there. Wrists and disclaimers. fighting other people is risky. So is crypto.

You could lose what you put in. But we are headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone. But we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. Hoffman to the stage. David Hoffman weighs in at 170.

0.0. All right. And his opponent, Kane. Tomorrow. Kane weighs in. at 170.5 pounds. All right, let's step up front, guys. Can we get a face off?

Right here? Face off, there we go. All right, this is Fight of the Night. This is your main event right in front of you right now. All right, let's face it. Let's go. Let's make some noise. It's your main event.

What's going on here? It's good. All right. Now, David, You were supposed to fight Nick Carter. You received a rib injury, and you have recovered over that. How was that journey to get to this fight, and are you ready? Yeah, I challenged Kane because I worked really hard with my training for my fight with Nick.

I never got to have that fight with Nick, and so I want to put all that training to good use. And so here we are. Here we are. All right, now to Kane. Kane, you seem to have a slight, age difference between you or your opponent. Sorry I got to bring it up, all right? Father Time isn't the best when it comes to combat sports,

but it has been beaten. Do we see you beating Father Time and beating your opponent, David, in the pit tomorrow? Yeah, absolutely. By the time we get finished tomorrow, he's going to wish that he was fighting Nick Carter. Oh, strong words. All right, now, do we have any predictions?

Yeah, we're going to see a knockout. Knockout, any round? Whenever it happens. Never it happens is what he says. Do you have any predictions? Kane is a tall tree, and they're easy to knock down. Okay, so this man is, he's chopping trees? All right, I love to hear it.

Okay, now, you guys are actually friends. In our last main event, they were friends as well. What brings you to want to fight your friend? For the memes. For the memes. What about you? I mean, he challenged me, and I was like, let's do it. Let's do it.

All right. Well, this is your main event. Let's make some noise for these guys right now and they will be throwing it down main event IFC5. It is going down. All right