Bankless - ROLLUP - VCs Abandoning Ethereum | Macy's & NFL NFTs | ConstitutionDAO vs Citadel | Binance Arbitrum

Starting point is 00:00:06 Hey, Bankless Nation, this is the fourth week of November. It's Thanksgiving week if you are in the U.S. listening. David, happy Thanksgiving, man. How are you doing? Oh, happy Thanksgiving to you. I'm doing absolutely fantastic. By the time listeners are listening to this, I will be home in Seattle with my family and my super cute nephew. And if you guys haven't noticed, this weekly roll-up is coming to you a day early because of Thanksgiving. So happy Thursday, but still get your coffee because we have a bunch to do in this Thursday, Bankless weekly roll-up. That's right. If you're eating some turkey with your family, and stuff and just put on the bankless podcast. Get them up to speed on crypto. They'll thank you later, okay? Yeah, yeah. Earbuds in, family out, weekly roll up on.

Starting point is 00:00:45 Let's do this. Well, you know on Thanksgiving, you're going to have some Thanksgiving crypto conversations, right? Are you going to have a few? Do you have any extended family that you're going to talk to? It's inevitable. It's inevitable.

Starting point is 00:00:53 Yeah? Yeah, I always tell the same story. And like, a lot of people resonate with this story. My sister hates it that like every time she like runs into me at some sort of gathering. Like I'm talking about crypto. But here's how this works, right? like family gathering 20 people 30 people maybe there's a party in the backyard I don't know and they're like all right David like what do you do and I go oh I work like well first off here's

Starting point is 00:01:15 others goes I ask them what they do and then they give me some like normal job and I'm like okay I get it like marketing like I know I know what that is and then they ask me what I do and I'm like oh I work in crypto and then of course they have a bigillion questions and then my sister comes over here's her like little brother talking about crypto it's like oh David's always talking about crypto. I'm like, they asked me. They asked me. It's not me. Okay, but let me ask you. Let me ask you. I'm going to play your sister's devil's advocate here. Do you ask them what they do in order for them to ask you what you do so that you can tell them about crypto, sir? Maybe subconsciously, but not intentionally. When they ask you, are you excited that

Starting point is 00:01:54 they just asked you the question? And how do you lead into it? Like, where do you even start? That's where I have such a hard time. Yeah, I always... Let me tell you about the history of money. Do you know the gold standard? Let's start there. So what's crypto? It's like, all right, well, in 1973, Nixon went off the gold standard. Oh, man, too much fun. All right, guys, we've got a jam-packed schedule for you, of course.

Starting point is 00:02:19 We're going to talk about VCs abandoning Ethereum, at least the fund managers. There was some crypto-twitter drama over the weekend, David. I know you saw it. An oversupply of it. Yeah, I was a part of it. We're going to talk about that too. Also, the Constitution. Last week we talked about purchasing the Constitution.

Starting point is 00:02:35 We were rugged by a fund manager, though. The same guy who rugged us on GME. We're going to talk about that too. It didn't happen. Unfortunately, Macy's NFT Day Parade, they're going to put some NFTs as floats, I believe. Also, the NFL going to Polygon. That's an interesting story, too. So lots to uncover, even in this short Thanksgiving week.

Starting point is 00:02:56 David, before we get into it, man, we got to talk a little bit about Opolis. I love what Opelus is. doing because it is empowering the new worker, the self-sovereign worker. What is OPLUS up to, David, and why are we sharing this? Opelus is a Dow for Dow's. So if you want to work for a Dow, be a self-sovereign worker that manages your own, you know, works life balance and work for a Dow, that's fantastic. A problem with that is what about health care? What about things like payroll? What about stability? And Opolis is a Dow to help bring stability for the Dow worker, the self-sovereign worker. the self-sovereign worker.

Starting point is 00:03:32 So Opolis is itself a Dow. It's kind of a co-op. And when you join Opolis, you join in a health care group, a group of people that all are given health insurance by the same organization. And you guys, you split the risks, split the payments. And it's a way to get health care for everyone in the co-op. And just like every other Dow, using the Opelis product gives you ownership in the Opelis Dow.

Starting point is 00:03:58 So if you sign up today, or not today, but also today, but also before the 1st of January 2020, so the end of the year, you will get a 1,000 work token, that's the OPLUS token, bonus, along with a thousand bank token, that's the bankless Dow token, if you join OPLUS by January 1st. So click on the link in the show notes to get started, getting your health insurance through OPLUS. I think that's bankless.c.c.c.com slash OPLIS. So many people, David, they're like, I'd quit a job today. If I had health benefits, well, now you can get those.

Starting point is 00:04:29 And it's not just health. They also can pay in crypto. They provide payroll. They'll help you have taxes. It's the whole gamut. I know this is for our U.S. listeners because we have particular trouble when it comes to health care. But maybe they'll be expanding beyond that as well. Anyway, all right, David, let's talk about the market.

Starting point is 00:04:46 What is happening in the market this week? I'm going to flip to our Bitcoin chart to tell us more. A little quiet in the market this week. Bitcoin took a little bit of a tumble. Start of the week at around $60,000. is currently clocking in at $56,600, overall down about 5% on the week. But in terms of grand scheme of things,

Starting point is 00:05:06 not really too much action there. No big deal. Okay, how about Eith Price going into Thanksgiving holidays? Are we going to be bragging to our family and friends? I don't know. Yeah, a little bit flat on the week. We started the week at, where did we start the week at? $40,000-ish dollars hit a high of $44,000.

Starting point is 00:05:23 $4,000. I'll take you down by it. $4,400, excuse me, yeah. That'd be nice someday. That would be a year from now. That will be the roll-up report. Yeah, sometimes I forget to stop looking into the future. $4,232 is where the ether price is. So a little bit up on the week.

Starting point is 00:05:43 Ether doing a really good job keeping his head above $4,000. It dipped below $4,000 for a moment two days ago, but has really fought hard against staying below $4,000. There's also a story of the DXY, the dollar index, gaining a lot of strength. Getting strong. Yeah. And so the traders are talking about Bitcoin weakness in the face of dollar strength. I have my own takes there, which we will unpack later in the show.

Starting point is 00:06:07 But Ether had a very strong performance against what is overall a slightly down market this week. All right. Family questions. Thanksgiving questions. David, what crypto should I buy? How do you answer that one? Ether. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:19 And is it too late to buy, sir? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Okay, a year ago at this time, you're having that conversation with their family, it would have been a better time to buy. $737 is the price Ether was trading. Well, that was January 1st. I'm going to forget.

Starting point is 00:06:35 Oh, that's a year. Let me do the one year. My God, it's even $500, yeah, $600. $600, $500, somewhere in that range. Better time to buy. It's still not a bad time to buy if you're holding for the long run, I suppose. Of course, none of this is financial advice, right, David? Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:06:52 I'm sure you qualify. Why would you think that? Ether Bitcoin ratio. What's happening there? Yeah, up on the week. We ended last week around 0.7. We are at 0.074. Hit a peak of almost 0.076, which if you zoom out for like maybe the six months time horizon,

Starting point is 00:07:10 Ryan, we are approaching like a very, the end of where Ether BTC ratio has been at its local high in the last year. So it hit the high earlier this year at 0.0.0.0. 8-ish and we've been bouncing between 0.08 and 0.06 for like the last six months and we there's not much room left before we establish new highs on local time frames yeah look at that look at that we are we're not having that's a fourth quarter weakness that either generally has like bitcoin i mean traditionally in in bullish markets bitcoin has a killer fourth quarter right and then ether kind of languishes uh but that's not happening they're you know they're both kind of doing okay and Ether is definitely keeping up, more than keeping up.

Starting point is 00:07:54 There's a very little precedent for Ether having any sort of price discovery above this level. So like, if we keep on going higher, like, we don't really know what happens next. And so a lot of people are speculating. Oh, where is this going to go? I feel like this number was the exact same last week when we talked. This is a total locked value in DFI. This is the D5 pulse. We're above $100 billion, $106 billion to just kind of hang in there.

Starting point is 00:08:21 similar to last week. How about our defy tokens? Defy index tracks that. What are we looking at this week? A little bit down on the week. DPI, started the week at $355, ending the week at $348. Okay. Let's talk a bit more about indexes.

Starting point is 00:08:39 This is the bed index. So this is a third Bitcoin, a third ether, and a third DPI. All of them put together. What are we looking at on the week? Also slightly down on the week. start of the week at 172, currently clocking in at 165. That's a good recommendation, right? So if you're talking to your family and friends, right, a third, a third, a third,

Starting point is 00:09:00 just buy the bed index, sleep comfy at night. That's what we say here on bank lists. Yeah, they're always looking for something on Coinbase, though. So Coinbase, if you could go ahead and list bed, that would be fantastic. Otherwise, I'll just have to keep on recommending Ether. You know what, though, they're actually what they really want. You know, like what I found a lot of people I talk to is like, they don't actually want to know about ether.

Starting point is 00:09:22 They want to know about the next ether. Right. It's kind of their question. It's always the questions. Like every time I meet someone and I tell them I'm into crypto, like half the time, it's like, all right, what's the next token I should buy? I'm like, well, wait a second. Have you bought Bitcoin or ether?

Starting point is 00:09:36 And they're like, no. Yeah. I'm like, why are you asking me about the next token? You haven't even started, you haven't even found the starting line. Yeah, you're not even into your crypto monies yet. Right. Like learn your ABCs first before you start spell things. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:47 Get out of here. Wow, man, you and I should have Thanksgiving together sometime. Good conversations. All right, layer 2B, this is good, man. This is very good. It keeps going up. Keeps going up only. Layer 2 beat for people, we sometimes cover this in the market section.

Starting point is 00:10:07 This is the amount of value locked inside of Ethereum roll-ups. And Ethereum layer 2s, I should broaden that, not just roll up, but Ethereum layer 2s. We are at 6.5 billion, and it keeps going up. And David, after our conversation with Starkware, like, look, man, this is the, I will keep saying this, this is the chart to watch in 2022. Okay, this is the new D5 pulse type of chart that's just going to keep going up and up and up and rocketing up as rollups and layer two become saturated. And it's, you know, it's already pretty healthy at 6.5 billion. Yeah, up 20% on the week, clocking at 6.5 billion. Billing. Yeah, some big winners this week.

Starting point is 00:10:49 Bobit Network don't actually know what that is. Clocking in number two, up 180% in total TVL on the week. So brand new L2, apparently it's an optimistic roll-up. Didn't know about that one. Another big winner this week is loopering, up 25% in TVL. Immutable X, up almost 50% in TVL to $237 million. Diversify up 23% at $59 million. Some big winners, some big movers this week.

Starting point is 00:11:15 Yeah, absolutely. We'll continue monitoring this. Super early days. Before you move on, check out the ETH number. So we're looking at the dollar number. Let's check out the ETH supply in... Oh, okay. You can do that?

Starting point is 00:11:24 Yeah, ETHs all time high. All time high. That's what really matters. Yeah, so if you measure it in ETH, you get the noise of the markets. Is this denominated in ETH or is this just the ETH? Yeah. Okay, so this could be stable coins. It could be other value, but it's just denominated in ETH.

Starting point is 00:11:38 Is that correct? ETH equivalent. Yes, you're right. Yes, you're right. Oh, yeah. Got it. Okay. So we're just changing the denomination here, but this is still cool.

Starting point is 00:11:44 a lot of ether over there too. Let's talk EIP 1559. I mean, how many months has it been now? Let's see, August. It's been specifically 105 days. Thank you, sir. That was very precise. Actually, that was on the 18th, so it's actually been roughly 112 or 111 days.

Starting point is 00:12:01 Okay, well, how we know that is Christine Kim, who is an analyst at Galaxy. She is looking at Ethereum's fee market upgrade. I love, by the way, that analysts now kind of, of like Wall Street-esque. I know that Galaxy's a Crypto Fund, but they're also like Wall Street plugged in. Okay. Now, real analysts are looking at EIP 1559, looking at Ether as a bond. And what does she have to say to us? David, you want to talk about some of these tweets? Yeah, she's got some great charts. The first one, she says, since activation, EIP-1559 has saved users a total of $844 million through base fee refunds. And so what this means is that, like, if you

Starting point is 00:12:42 overpay for your transaction because you just wanted to go in, but you, EIP-1559, actually returns you the amount that you've overpaid above and beyond base fee. So this is people learning to wrap their heads around from the previous form of transaction types to the new form of transaction types. Actually baking in how much a transaction costs into the protocol saves people money because they don't have to overestimate it. Stacking these wins. Win number one for users is saving money. Yeah. Second one, the average cost of sending a transaction on Ethereum has continued to crime, tripling in dollar terms and doubling in native units since the activation of EIP-1559. This is going in parallel with the increased demand for Ethereum block space.

Starting point is 00:13:23 EIP-159 does not increase price, increased gas fees, but it just so happens that... It doesn't alleviate them. It doesn't alleviate them. But it just so happens that once EIP-159 was implemented, the NFT markets really took off as well as defy markets as well. So demand for gas since EIP-559 has only gone. up. Okay, not a win there, but like, it's kind of neutral. Well, what's the next one? It's a win for ether is hard money. Yeah. True. Uh, third one, despite lower earnings from transaction fees,

Starting point is 00:13:51 total minor revenue in dollar terms has increased 33%. So miners have actually been making all-time highs in dollar revenue. I thought they were going to leave the market, David. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a narrative. Right. That's what they said. That's what they said. They're going to kill our business. But nope. Uh, yeah, all-time high minor revenue, even after EIP 1-559. Okay, God bless the miners. Hope you guys are investing in ether so that you can become stakers. What's this next one, David? 56 of all new coins issued on Ethereum have been offset, aka burnt, by the amount of

Starting point is 00:14:23 eth, burnt through base fees. It's 56%, right? 56%, yeah. So we are, as a result of EIP-159, ether issuance has been reduced by 56%. Almost more than half. Crazy. Is that that happening? Did we just get a happening?

Starting point is 00:14:37 An accidental happening, yeah. Oh, cool. accidental. That's awesome. She writes more. There's an entire research paper here that you can go look at. But once again, super cool to see analysts diving into that. Seeing this on the charts. Yeah, great data. Also, David, we just passed a major milestone. All right. Over one million eith has now been burnt since EIP 1559. This happened Tuesday, I believe. So earlier this week,

Starting point is 00:15:02 huge milestone, a million eath. That's like 1%ish, just less than 1% of all ETH supply has now been burnt. What? Yeah. 1% man. It's crazy. It's like 0.8%. But yeah, pretty close. We're getting close. Well, we could celebrate again when it actually hits 1%. This is Eric Connor. What's he say?

Starting point is 00:15:24 Ethereum network hash rate all time high. There has never been more has never been more hashes produced per second on Ethereum than right now. It's been up and up and up basically since forever. And even with EIP-1559, the Ethereum network security is at all

Starting point is 00:15:39 time highs. This definitely has to do with the increasing ETH price. As ETH price goes up, there's more minor incentive. And yeah, so Ethereum also has never been more secure. Well, I think the lesson there is don't believe the FUD. I mean, this might be a recurring lesson in this in this conversation. There's like there are some concerns, of course, I'm not saying everything is always rosy, right? Like there are some reasons to be bearished. There's some technologies that will take longer. But oftentimes, David, people get trapped by FUD type narrative. So you remember when everyone was saying pre-EIP 1559, first it would never come, then when

Starting point is 00:16:15 it was obvious that it would come, that it was too risky, would destroy the network, miners would leave, gas fees would shoot up. Yeah, user experience would be terrible. Like, none of these things happened. It's just narrative battles. We'll get into a major narrative battle a second. But here's a pro tip on gas fees. You want to save on some gas fees this holiday season?

Starting point is 00:16:36 then you should plan your transactions, not during business hours. All right? So like, don't do this Monday, Tuesday. Yeah, don't do U.S. East Coast-ish Pacific Time business hours. Do it on Saturdays. Saturdays at like 3 a.m. it looks like. Or Sundays, even better, like 3 a.m. Eastern time. This is a chart that shows average base fees by time of day in the East Coast time zone.

Starting point is 00:17:02 And when things are more expensive, that's the yellow color. and when things are cheaper, that's purple. And it's kind of showing us when the cheapest time period to get transactions through. Yeah. So looking like Saturday and Sunday, much quieter. Wednesday is a bad day to make transactions, but also specifically noon at Eastern time. Worst day. Do not send your transactions then.

Starting point is 00:17:26 Yeah, midweek. Right. Between midnight and 9 a.m. on Mondays, Eastern time is a great time to do it. Same times throughout on Saturday and Sunday. Anytime after noon until like, you know, 5 p.m. Eastern time on a weekday, probably should just wait. Uh-oh. This is looking like banker hours, David.

Starting point is 00:17:45 Are we in trouble here? I thought this is bankless. People doing all their defy banking during like work hours. People are at work, like being distracted and just like, oh, I could just make some. Yeah, right, buy NFTs instead of doing my work. That's what's going on. Well, who knows? It's helpful, though.

Starting point is 00:17:57 It's super cool. You can see all that, too. Let's talk about Ronan. This is Axi Infinity. I think it's a bullcase for Axi Infinity, to be honest, right? It's like they've had a lot of, it's been an incredible year for AXE in general. People are wondering, like, what's the next catalyst for them? Well, it's really cool that they're turning their side chain, their Ronan side chain,

Starting point is 00:18:17 which maybe in the future becomes a roll-up. They're turning that basically into like a mini-axi banking system, right? So now they just rolled out economy, right? They just rolled out a decentralized exchange. $1.8 billion moved to the Ronan. decentralized exchange over the past two weeks this thing is still brand new what else we got 1.3 billion in total locked value over the last 30 days 7.5 billion in volume just crushing it man people trade axes trading assets and it's become sort of a banking layer i bet this is how millions of people

Starting point is 00:18:55 will find their ways into defy it this might be for a lot of people their first banking experience might be ronin side chain defy you know using Mad mask or something. Super cool to see that. 100%. Yeah. No, Axy proving out to be a sustainable economy, not a flash in the pan. Yeah. My God, I think I fell in love with this website. This graphic is phenomenal. What is this? Okay, so this is eth-tps. info. ETH-tPS. Info. And it's a great way to visualize the transactions per second of the overall Ethereum ecosystem. In real time. In real time. Yeah, in real time.

Starting point is 00:19:32 So currently clocking in at 122 transactions per second. And then if you also hit that button, exclude sidechains. You can go back and forth between including true roll-ups that have the same assurances of Ethereum versus also having sidechains. So if you want to count just the roll-ups, Ethereum is clocking in at 5.28 transactions per second. If you include sidechains, it's up to like 122. But this is not the theoretical maximum. This is actually Ethereum as being used as a system, right?

Starting point is 00:20:03 The actual transactions that are going through. So this actually changes. Oh, the roll-up throughput just jumped up to 16.15 transactions per second. So this must be updating every single block. Really cool visualization. And so as we were watching, like L2 beat go up in TVL, we're also going to be watching the squares on the right side grow and grow in size. For the audio listeners, we're seeing a big, big blob that is Ethereum with some smaller

Starting point is 00:20:29 squares on the side that's arbitram, optimism, ZK sync, ZK swap, immutable X, loop ring, all the layer twos. As those things build out, we're going to see those get larger and Ethereum shrink and the transactions per second go up, right? And yeah, it's really cool visualization. Here's the big lesson to David is that if you want to measure the transactions per second of Ethereum, you can't just take main chain, like the 10 to 15 transactions per second. increasingly you're going to have to take the entire ecosystem that is secured by Ethereum.

Starting point is 00:21:03 So that will be main net plus all of the roll-ups. And that will give you the real transactions per second time. That is Ethereum scalability strategy. So as you said, I expect in the future this purple to be like just a small sliver. Exactly. And so much more activity. Just the settlement layer. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:22 It's a really cool website. I bet we'll include this in the future in the roll-up as well. go on, Ryan, we should talk about the theoretical max, right? Oh, yeah, let's get there. As Arbitrum and optimism actually get used more and more and more, and they also open up and unconstrained their layer twos, the theoretical max of these things are insane, right? Like right now, people are using Arbitrum a little bit, right?

Starting point is 00:21:43 Clocking in at 49 transactions per second with a theoretical max of 40,000 per second. That's the max recorded, right? The max recorded, right? Oh, yeah, that's the max recorded, yeah. It's 49, right? 49, right. Optimism has only clocked in at 2.4 max transactions per second recorded. But again, this is because people are just beginning to use these things. Immutable, doing 28.3 transactions per second. Like, we actually need people to actually go on and start to use these things to really, like, rev up how many TPS they can actually do.

Starting point is 00:22:14 But like, theoretical max of arbitrum, 40K, theoretical max of optimism, 20K, ZK swap 10K, Immutable X, 9K. Like the theoretical max on these things is like the ceiling is there's so much capacity. There's so much capacity. Getting close to the hundreds of thousands. Right. And we just need more and more people to actually just be moving in moving their apps, moving their money, moving their value onto these layer twos, which is why we should be probably following this alongside with layer two B on a probably

Starting point is 00:22:41 recurring basis. I think we should be doing that. Do you want to make that executive decision now, David? Okay, we're doing that. It's done. It's done. Governance. Bank is governance.

Starting point is 00:22:49 Governance vote. Do I have to sign on chain anywhere? Not at all. Are we a Dow, David? A Dow of 2. It's on the token vote. All right, let's talk about the Metaverse, too. And in particular, I want to talk about Sand.

Starting point is 00:23:01 They just had a crazy token surge. Adidas is teasing a partnership with Sand. This is built partially on Polygon, I believe, partially on Ethereum. I think we should get them on the show at some point. But like, what is going on with their token, dude? Oh, my God, it's way higher than it was yesterday. My gosh. Yeah, so I remember looking at this token doing some due diligence

Starting point is 00:23:21 on a bankless show forever ago and I saw it was like clocking in buying it and buying it and not buying it yeah I thought it was a dollar I was like oh interesting okay yeah as a tradition right so like three weeks ago saw it at a at a dollar currently clocking in at over seven dollars hit an all time high of seven dollars and 81 cents definitely should have bought that but the obvious trade after like the facebook remanded to meta was to buy all the metaverse tokens sand being one of them so definitely they're also the the organization that snoop dog is helping promo so they got him on board and now apparently also Adidas. These valuations getting frothy though, sir.

Starting point is 00:23:58 I mean, look, we just jumped to $7 billion for this thing for sand. I mean, I don't know, Ryan. How valuable is the Metaverse? I thought about that one? I did, but this sounds so much like a dot-com thing to me that I just got to be like, how valuable is the internet, sir? And that's why you should buy pets.com, right? Are you going to be but the dot-com bubble while we go through the dot-com bubble?

Starting point is 00:24:21 I'm not saying like I'm bearish or anything. I'm just saying like one difference is like for to me, axi infinity. These guys are crushing it on their revenue. Like I see some of those fundamentals. I don't know much about sand. So maybe I need to do my due diligence. Maybe I should have done that 30 days ago. All right.

Starting point is 00:24:40 Let's talk about this too. In the opposite direction. Yeah. This is a sad chart. So when I see a chart like this, I just think like BitConnect. I think, you know, scam. I think someone rugged them. but this is not a cryptocurrency.

Starting point is 00:24:53 What chart are we looking at here? We are looking at the Turkish lira currency, the currency of Turkey versus the U.S. dollar. So back in February, you could get 13 and a half, almost 14 cents for one Turkish lira. And today you can get 7.8 cents for a Turkish lira, which, I mean, okay, that's like losing about half of its value. In crypto, that's nothing.

Starting point is 00:25:15 In global fiat currencies, that's a big deal. Like, going from February to, where we are at the end of November, losing half of your value, that's a really big deal. So, yeah, we were watching the, I'm not going to say hyperinflation, but I'm going to put it into people's brains. We are watching the rapid inflation of the lira currency as it relates to the dollar. And it's sad because like unlike the, the BitConnects that, you know, go to zero. This affects tens of thousands of people's lives. Millions of people's lives, right? When currencies fail, economy shut down.

Starting point is 00:25:51 Yeah, and it causes like real economic hardship for people. It causes political instability. It's sad. It's a sad thing to happen. And, yeah, I guess like imagine being, having your funds in the lira and having a savings account of like $1,000, right, a year ago. And now it's just, you didn't do anything. Like nine months ago, yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:14 Nine months ago. Now it's worth $500. Imagine how hard it is for people to like save up $1,000. not living in America and then that thousand dollars gets cut like knee captive now it's five hundred dollars like this is the state all the time that just got deleted like if it takes you a year to save up a thousand dollars and then it now it's five hundred dollars you just like lost a half of a year's worth of labor money is a battery of your time and energy when you when you go to work you spend eight hours a day toiling and then you take your paycheck that is

Starting point is 00:26:44 tokenized time and energy when misallocated or of this bad monetary policy loses the value of the dollar, these central bank operators are playing with your time and energy that you've saved up. Stealing from you. Stealing from you. Look, it's just sad, right? It's like I feel, you know, very blessed. Like on bankless, we get to talk about all the shenanigans going on in crypto.

Starting point is 00:27:10 We get to talk about the numbers. We get to talk about NFTs. We get to talk about the fun stuff. But it's important to zoom out and realize why we're here, right? This is a better financial system for the world. Like, it's not fair and it shouldn't be the case that your money, you live, just because of the area you grew up in, your geographic national jurisdiction, that you should have this kind of money system in place.

Starting point is 00:27:33 And it's the default, right? That's sad. And this is the reason we're in crypto is to create a better money system for the world. Anyway, I think this is going to be the first of many fiat currencies to pop in this decade. Yeah, very sad. But guys, we are, we got a lot to be thankful for it. We got a lot of news. We got some releases coming up next before we get to those.

Starting point is 00:27:54 We want to thank the sponsors that made this show possible. Arbitrum is an Ethereum scaling solution that's going to completely change how we use DFI and NFTs. And now it's live and has over 100 projects deployed. Gas fees on Ethereum L1 suck. Too many people want to use Ethereum and it doesn't have enough capacity for all of us. And that's why teams like Arbitrum have been hard at work developing layer two solutions that makes transactions on Ethereum cheap and instant.

Starting point is 00:28:18 Arbitrum increases Ethereum's throughput by orders of magnitude at a fraction of the cost of what we are used to paying. When interacting with Arbitrum, you can get the performance of a centralized exchange while tapping into Ethereum's level of security and decentralization. This is why people are calling this Ethereum's broadband moment, where we get to add performance onto decentralization and security. If you're a developer and you want to save on gas costs and overall make a better user experience,

Starting point is 00:28:42 go to Developers.offchainlabs.com to get started building on Arbitrum. And if you're a user, keep an eye out for your favorite defy apps being built on Arbitrum. Many Defy applications on the Ethereum L1 are migrating over to Layer 2s like Arbitrum, and some are even skipping over the Layer 1 entirely and deploying directly on Layer 2. There's so many apps coming online to Arbitrum.com. So go to bridge.arbitrum.io now and start bridging over your eth or any of the tokens listed. And start having the Defi or NFT experience that you've always wanted. Alchemics is one of the coolest new defy apps on the scene.

Starting point is 00:29:13 It introduces self-paying loans, allowing you to spend and save at the same time. Deposit the die stable coin into the Alchemics vault in order to get an advance on the interest it generates. Borrow up to 50% of the total amount of your deposited dye in the form of Al-USD stablecoin. Here's the craziest part. The loan pays itself back and you cannot be liquidated. unlock your assets potential in the ultimate defy savings account. And brand new to Alchemix is the ETH fault where you can deposit ETH into the application, borrow Al-Eth against your deposits, while having your advance gradually paid back over time.

Starting point is 00:29:53 V-2 is rapidly approaching, which will allow for even more collateral types, plus a variety of yield strategies to choose from. Harness the power of Alchemics at Alchemics.fI. That's A-L-C-H-E-M-I-X-F-I. Follow Alchemics on Twitter at Alchemix F-I and join the Discord to keep up to date with Alchemics V-2 and to get involved in governance. Hey guys, we are back with the hot releases of the week.

Starting point is 00:30:19 Got to start here. Finance is starting its integration with Arbitrum 1. They have opened Layer 2, ETH deposits to Arbitrum. I think you can also push, push. It's a bridge, basically, to Arbitrum, where you can bridge ETH back or and forth from Binance. So this kind of provides a Fiat on ramp. So you put Fiat in Binance, convert it to ETH,

Starting point is 00:30:43 and then get ETH on the other side into Arbitram. It's the first, I think, big crypto exchange to do something like this. And I expect many others to follow in its place. What are your thoughts? Yeah, this is huge. This is putting users where they're meant to be users, right? Users need to use layer twos. like use goes on layer twos.

Starting point is 00:31:03 You got some rhymes. That's what they're for. Yeah. Uh-huh. And Arbitrum is a great layer two. Binance now allowing people to take their money and put it directly on Arbitrum where the apps are that the users can use and not having to pay the L1 gas fees. This is the future of Ethereum.

Starting point is 00:31:20 Binance leaving the charge. A little bit surprising. Coinbase. Where are you got? Coinbase. Yeah, Coinbase. Let's get this done. Let's do it.

Starting point is 00:31:27 Yep. Let's get on that. All right. Let's talk about defrag. Defrag. Yeah. Instant liquidity for your NFTs. What's this mean? Yeah. Collateralized NFTs. We know that this is for this product. I mean, I'm guessing is going to be absolutely used by all the NFTs out there, being able to collateralize the value of your NFTs and get a loan against them. Definitely some degen behavior, but probably a pretty important primitive for defy.

Starting point is 00:31:50 Would you ever collateralize your crypto punk and like buy a car or something? I'm very, very worried that a lot of people are going to collateralize their punks and they're going to lose their puns that way. get liquidated on a punk. Get liquidated on a punk. I'd be very worried about that. Remember the stories of, you know, 2018 where people were getting like liquidated on their, uh,

Starting point is 00:32:08 position, and maker that they took out in 2017? Uh-huh. Imagine losing a punk that way. Oh, hey. Is that you, David? Sorry, just a few times.

Starting point is 00:32:18 Okay, well, it's only a couple times. You're back, though. You're back stronger than ever. Uh-huh. D-Frague, interestingly enough, is built by one of the co-founders of Zapper as well, Noder. Oh, no way. So yeah, interesting projects.

Starting point is 00:32:32 Not quite available yet, but there's some ways you can get involved. There's something called a mathematician. And, yeah, anyway, this is a commenting story. Go check this out if you're interested in more about that. What is this, Reputation Dow. Yeah, Reputation Dow is a Oracle Reputation product is what they say. So Ryan has said this a number of times. The cool thing about Defi is you can right-click view source,

Starting point is 00:32:55 which is kind of a metaphor. You can't really right-click view source. But you can go to websites like DeFi. Pulse or Dune Analytics and actually look under the hood at what are the assets, what is the balance sheet of all of these DFI apps like compound maker Dau, etc. That's the beauty of a transparent open list, permissionless financial system. Reputation Dau is taking the same concept, the ability to vet and audit instantaneously and permissionlessly, not just to DFI apps, but also for oracles. Oracles are an increasingly important component of the DFI world. We need to understand

Starting point is 00:33:27 the prices of things. And reputation Dau is. a way to audit the performance security of oracles. And they have partnered with Tracer Dow, which Tracer Dow is a financials products Dow that needs to consume oracles to produce financial products. So the combination of Tracer Dow and Reputation Dow have produced probably perhaps a new level of Oracle security, making our oracles and therefore Defi more and more secure. Yeah, I think this is really important because not all oracles are created equal, right? Some have worse security assurances than others. And so you really need the transparency there.

Starting point is 00:34:04 You need the abilities, like, not just what's the price of this asset, but like where did the price come from? And how is that secured? I expect we'll see many Oracle attacks in the future. And, you know, we need this kind of transparency if we're going to continue to derisk defy, which is what we're all after. Speaking of derisking things, you want to derisk your cold storage.

Starting point is 00:34:25 Actually, it's not cold storage. it's warm storage, but lattice is now integrated with Metamask. Latus is a hardware wallet that we've talked about on bankless. We wrote some articles about this earlier in the year on the lattice one hardware wallet. It's a little bit different than a ledger. So it's actually like a device that kind of sits on your desk, has these cards that you can plug into it. And it's incredibly tamper resistant. So if you're ever worried about, you know, somebody like I guess grabbing your USB stick ledger sort of thing and taking that and you know getting in lat at lattice has that's a possible thing by the way it is a possible thing man that's another it's podcast right

Starting point is 00:35:08 it's a physical attack on the hardware wallet that's a possible thing to do it's really not possible with the lattice one this is like this is like the fort knocks of wallet security anyway i call it the greenguts fault okay that's better for your harry potter gold uh they've integrated with MetaMask, which is a long time coming. And so now you can use your lattice wallet with metamask quite seamlessly. It's fantastic that this is happening. Yep. Just increasing the potential security of your crypto assets. The cool thing about a lattice is that you actually have to be physically around the thing in order to prove a transaction, kind of like, very much like a ledger. But the idea is like your lattice, it's like big enough where like you're not taking it with you

Starting point is 00:35:47 like on an airplane. Like that thing sits in your home. It's kind of like it goes next to your Amazon Alexa, right? And so like you can go to your MetaMask, do something in Defi, press the approve button on your MetaMask, then you've got to go over to your lattice and then press the Approve button there. There's a number of other very cool things that can happen about the list. It's human readable transactions, which are really cool. I think both Ryan and I definitely believe that this is kind of the future of hardware wallets. They just need more and more of these integrations to just become more and more usable. And so this is that story here. Yeah, absolutely. They'll all get better over time.

Starting point is 00:36:18 Speaking of getting better, Ave. long time coming. Ave Arc was like their institutional product. Now here it is, I believe Fireblocks has started up by providing services to all the Fireblocks institutional clients in Ave Arc. It's pretty cool to see anything you want to add here, David. Yeah, I want to add a take. I was on the Index Co-op podcast and people were talking about, is this just like taking the old traditional banking system and like now Defi is just becoming permissioned and because you have to do KYC to get into AVE-Arc and now like the institutions have their own like gated silo where it's white-listed.

Starting point is 00:36:55 It can't play. Yeah, it's white-listing. And so my answer to that is like, well, like, you know, is defy just becoming the same system that it already was? And the answer is no, it's actually flipped on its head. The world of defy is the more powerful version of what's going on here. Arc by Avey is a constrained version of defy. Everyone in there is a known entity.

Starting point is 00:37:17 All the institutions can know who the other institutions are so that they can be. be compliant, but it's like the, it's like the defy on training wheels. It's like the defy, but protection. The real defy, the wild defy, is the defy with all of the power where you don't need KYC, you don't need, like to, and so all of the cool aspects of defy are the things that are able to be used by individuals. It's the constrained part of defy that is being given to the institutions because they need to be compliant, which is the inverse of the relationship that we have in traditional finance, where traditional finance is just like, all right, here's your Robin Hood and your account kids, there you go. But like all of the cool financial products are behind the scenes that

Starting point is 00:37:55 you have to have a bunch of money to get into like Goldman Sachs. And so this relationship is inverted in D-Fi. Yeah, I think that's a good take. And like, you know, in general, you can build permission systems on top of permissionless systems, right? But the inverse isn't true. You can't build permissionless systems on top of permission systems. Right. And so this is just a permission system being built on top of the substrate of a permissionless financial system. And that's the correct order of operations because we don't lose the permissionless aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:28 In the old world, the bankers laugh at the individuals because we can't have access to the cool fun defy products. But in defy, we laugh at the institutions because we built the damn thing. That's right. All right. What's this, David? This is, my God, is this a screenshot of the future Zapper? Mobile.

Starting point is 00:38:45 Defy? Mobile app. mobile app? Zapper coming to mobile, getting teased. Yeah, so not an actual release there, just a little bit of a release of a release. Very good.

Starting point is 00:38:55 Teased, that is coming, guys. The tools are getting better. The user experiences are getting better. It's all happening. David, let's switch from releases, talk to some raises. Our friends at Gemini, the WinkleVos twins,

Starting point is 00:39:05 they just raised $400 million. What are they doing? They're building a metaverse outside of Facebook's Walt Garden. I like that because, you know, Winkle Voss's versus Facebook. Who doesn't love that story? Winkle Boss versus Zuck doing this in the Metaverse.

Starting point is 00:39:20 Quite a big raise. There was a rumor that Gemini was going to IPO at some point in time. I don't think this means that that's off the table. Now their valuation is $7.1 billion, though, according to this next raise. So, yeah, pretty interesting stuff. I know Gemini is just doing all sorts of things beyond its exchange. Any of their thoughts here? Yeah, I just actually learned by reading this article that Gemini, the actual official,

Starting point is 00:39:46 company name is called Gemini Space Station. That's pretty cool. What? Yeah, I zoom up a little bit. Has it always been called that? LLC? The parent, New York parent company, Gemini Space Station LLC, valued at $7.1 billion. Yeah, Winklevye, take it back to the Zuck. Let's do this. Let's do this. Yeah, round two. What about this? David, taking it to the music industry. So this is Royal. Now, we had Blow on, Justin Blow, who is DJ, you know, fantastic artist in and of himself. also an entrepreneur, and he's starting this royal company to bring tokenized music and actually providing royalties, attaching royalties to that. This is kind of a, I guess a regulatory difficulty, more than a technical difficulty. They just raised $55 million in a series A,

Starting point is 00:40:36 led by A16C to bring the music industry to crypto, artists to crypto. Really cool. Crypto to the artist? The same, same, same. They all. Also, the lineup of music investors is also pretty impressive. The chain smokers, Kigo, NAS, Logic, Disclosure. Oh, and also Coinbase. Yeah. So, like, not only A16Z, but a fantastic lineup of really good artists. But just picture how cool markets will get when, rather than just having, like, a Spotify-style user interface, like, you can, like, look at the up-and-coming artist whom you love.

Starting point is 00:41:09 Like, you just love their music. And you're like, dude, no-brainer. I'm making a bet on this artist specifically. and their ability to generate future cash flows, I'm going to hit the buy button, right? It just turns, we've talked about this before, but it turns the music industry into a market. It's like a stock market.

Starting point is 00:41:25 We can bet on different artists. And it puts the artists in charge, in control, right? Because they are the ones actually producing the music. It's not the studios and the go-betweens and the middlemen. Cool model if this can take off and be successful. Yeah, and this is just the theme of Ethereum at large, right? Producing a financial market around everything to unlock the power of, finance for the individual. Maybe there's some people out there. It's like, if you put money behind

Starting point is 00:41:51 everything, everything loses its meaning. I think it's the inverse. Like, you actually can create meaning by putting financial markets behind everything, teaching people how to actually be a financial participant because that education is very much needed in the world. And if you just put, like, stock market's not for everyone, but what about the music market? Like, if you're a music person, do you want to, like, start to speculate on the music market? Maybe that's for you. Or, like, already doing the art market with NFTs. And this is a great educational tool to teach people about personal finances inside of the context that they are interested in. Do you ever find it somewhat ironic that like the way out of the crony capitalist system that we're in is actually more capitalism?

Starting point is 00:42:32 Like hyper capitalism. But like I'm not talking about. So some people hear capitalism and they get just this terrible exploiting workers like this. And I understand that right? Because but like this is individual self-sovereign capitalism. This is like, this is like, think of, think of this as the form of capitalism as going to your farmer's market, right? We have all of these local businesses, these individuals coming together,

Starting point is 00:42:56 with their crafts, with their products, pricing this, like, that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about big corporate machine suppressing the worker and to every man and exploiting them, okay? That's a system we want to break out of, but the way to break out of it, it's probably this way.

Starting point is 00:43:14 Right. Yeah, people confuse capitalism with monopolies, right? The lack of existence of financial markets around music is because the music industry has captured it and not allowed it to happen, right? Totally. So this is the birth of a whole entire new field that is fairer capitalism, right? The best way to fight, it's literally fighting fire with fire, like removing bad capitalism and replacing it with good capitalism.

Starting point is 00:43:40 Yeah, I do think it's really important the way forward. Crypto Payment service, Moon Pay, they just raised $555.55 million from Tiger and another firm. So this is another Fiat on ramp, David. I don't know if you have anything else to say about this. Clarking in a $3.4 billion valuation. Yeah, the company was previously bootstrapped and profitable generating $100 million in revenue so far this year, which is pretty good numbers. Lovely. Guys, with these valuations out there, with all these raises,

Starting point is 00:44:13 going on. It's about time you considered a job in crypto. Nice. Nice. That was great. Like that's like right? Yeah, that's perfect. Seriously, though, get a job in crypto. Every time you hear about a raise, that could be your money because that goes to hiring people. That could be you. They're not keeping it. They're not keeping it in a bank account. They're not investing it in crypto. They're investing it in the growth of their companies, growth of their protocols. What do we got this week? We have a community ecosystem lead at DYDX, the foundation, a foundation based in Switzerland, by the way.

Starting point is 00:44:44 Really cool stuff. Bitwise, asset managers, one of our favorites in the space from an asset management perspective. They want an NFT specialist. They need a smart contract, research analysts, web three analysts. They need a governance specialist. Imagine putting those job positions

Starting point is 00:45:00 on your resume. Dex Guru needs a head of growth, technical lead at Draftly. An accountant at SmartDefi, product manager at smart defy as well get that head of ethereum research position down with immutable a head of tokens at immutable as well dexible needs a community manager elite engineer at hatstot finance community manager at eagronom can you manage a community you can probably do it at eagronom ctow at eagronom as well senior back end engineer smart defy blockchain technical ctio as well at merit i'm out of breath dude

Starting point is 00:45:33 uh there's a ton more just go check out the bankless job boards bankless dot pallet dot xy slash jobs hit subscribe and you can get these in your inbox as well and uh you'll hear about these again next week so unless you get a job and then you can ignore this part you can just fast forward David let's get to the news though that's some big news items yep let's start here this is the tweet that was heard around the world around crypto trader yeah yeah that's true maybe I'm overstating things the abandoning Ethereum tweet. Do you want to read this out? Yeah, this is from the Suu, Athero's Capital.

Starting point is 00:46:12 We've had them on the podcast before. Sue says, Yes, I've abandoned Ethereum despite supporting it in the past. Yes, Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around, jerking off, watching the burn, and concocting purity test while zero newcomers can afford the chain

Starting point is 00:46:28 is gross. As you can imagine, this was a very inflammatory tweet. This was not the start of the drama. This was probably the middle of it. The story actually started earlier, than this tweet. This tweet was a reaction to like the earlier spats that happened. And we're going to recap all of it later on in this show. I'm feeling attacked, David. The idea of sitting around jerking off watching the burn. Is that what we were doing earlier in the market section of the show?

Starting point is 00:46:53 Yeah. He's talking about us. He's talking about us. That's not all we're doing, okay? Like we're talking about Ethereum scalability. We spent a whole bunch of time during this show talking about like layer two and increasing transactions per second. A lot more to to say about that. One of the things I think the Ethereum community is doing is possibly a reaction? Maybe not. Maybe this wasn't due to the shit like the Twitter storms last weekend. Maybe this was unrelated. Maybe this is related more to gas fees. But there is an EIP proposal to reduce something called the call data function, the gas price for the call data function on Ethereum. And this would be, this would require a fork of some kind in the future. But the net of this would be, it would

Starting point is 00:47:39 make roll-ups five times more efficient. So five times less expensive in terms of gas fees. Roll-ups use their bottleneck, their constraint from a gas perspective, is this called data function? So the idea here that's being proposed is that in the relatively near future, we're talking in the next three to six months, an Ethereum network upgrade is pushed out. This could happen prior to the merge and would not necessarily delay the merge, but it might delay it by a week or two a month. It's a relatively small upgrade, but it could have a big effect on roll-ups. And what's interesting here is like the whole idea is that Ethereum is almost like,

Starting point is 00:48:26 gas fees are taxes, right? And so like just like nation state economies, when you want to encourage some sort of behavior and discourage another, use taxes to that for that. It's like you want people to have more kids. You reduce the taxes on kids. If you want people to have fewer kids, maybe you decrease the tax reductions. It's like you can control all of these things. And this is Ethereum as a network through their tax policy maybe saying we want to incent transaction activity on rollups by what? by reducing taxes, by making roll-up activity actually cheaper and increasing scalability that way.

Starting point is 00:49:03 That's why I think this is such an interesting proposal. But there are more dynamics to this, and there's definitely some controversy back and forth. What are your thoughts on this? Yeah, it's not an open and shut case. Apparently, this also adds a bunch of state bloat to the Ethereum L1, which produces its own problems. There's always tradeoffs everywhere. It's not like we have this magical thing in the back of our pocket that we can just reduce gas fees on the layer two and have it just be, oh, I forgot about this thing that we had.

Starting point is 00:49:27 Like, no, there's balances here. So this is currently going through discussion. But it is aligned with the whole roll-up-centric roadmap of Ethereum where we prioritized transactions on L2 and deprioritized transactions on layer one. This is kind of interesting. And here's what I feel like could be next. I know we're going to talk about this more.

Starting point is 00:49:48 But what could be next is what we've seen is the ETH community, the Ethereum community, really push back against this. Ethereum is abandoning its user's sentiment coming from ZOO, from Sue. And I think this is causing people to actually look deeper into Ethereum scalability versus the unsustainability of some of the alternative layer ones and the approaches they're pursuing. I think it's also like causing the Ethereum community to take a look at these gas tweaks, right? So like increasing, reducing roll-up fees by 5X in the future. What I think this could cause, David, is like, other layer ones to start bleeding against ETH as well.

Starting point is 00:50:31 And what's interesting, I think, about, you know, three hours capital is they're just traders. So if that starts to happen, if there's a momentum shift, right? If suddenly, you know, the Avas of the world and the souls of the world start bleeding into ETH, they'll get ahead of that. They'll rotate right back into ETH. And I think what's funny is they'll start claiming credit for all of the above, right? I can totally see that happen before. Yeah. Pierre Richard, who was doing the whole ETH supply gate thing, like as soon as like, oh, you can't actually measure the ETH supply,

Starting point is 00:51:02 and then a bunch of ETH devs took time out of their day to write a script for calculating for measuring the Eth supply. And then Pierre Rechard took credit for like, look, I made Ethereum better by like complaining about it on Twitter. Yeah, so this has happened before. Yeah. Yeah. This is the Streisden effect, right?

Starting point is 00:51:17 This is like, you know, if you want the technical community to do something, you just start, like, complaining about it or you, like, blast it and you get really loud and they get so angry that they're going to react and try to immediately fix it. Anyways, we got to package that up for the point of the show that happens later, so stay tuned for that. What happened with the Constitution doubt, David? This met an interesting end. Yeah, we have a brand new internet villain.

Starting point is 00:51:43 He was already an internet villain beforehand because Citadel, the Citadel CEO, Citadel is the hedge fund firm that called up Robin Hood and told them to stop trading. this guy, Ken Griffith, I think, Kenneth Griffin says, I bought, well, he didn't say this, he bought the Constitution. So the Constitution Dow raised like $40 million to buy the Constitution. Kenneth Griffith raised $42 million from himself to buy the Constitution, and then he bought it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:12 So this one hedge fund VC guy bought the Constitution instead of 17,000 members inside of a Dow. Oh, the irony. Yeah. Like, how could this story ends this way? Were you watching the Sotheby's auction at all? I was. I was. Okay. Yeah, I was watching it in real time.

Starting point is 00:52:27 It was kind of interesting. Like, it was thrilling to say I'd never watched an auction all the way through. And then, like, got to $40 million. And there was somebody on one phone, somebody on another. Apparently it was Ken Griffin's people versus the Dow's people. And they were just bidding up, like a million at a time. And suddenly the Dow kind of ran out of its cash reserve. And it's interesting because all of that was transparent, right?

Starting point is 00:52:49 So like, it feels like Ken was paying attention. He knew exactly how much the Dow had. The max bid. Right. Yeah. And so you said it. But the end of the day is the people's document, the Constitution, went from one rich individual to another rather than the 17, 18,000 people in the Dow.

Starting point is 00:53:09 Right. Which is quite interesting. Granted, a Dow has never proven that it's able to take care of like historical document. Right. So like that is also an experiment. This is like a custody of. a very important document. Yeah, they wouldn't want to screw that up.

Starting point is 00:53:22 Yeah, that's kind of an interesting experiment. I'm not sure if you want to run that right now. Well, yeah, I was interesting anyway. But I think one of the most interesting byproducts was at Sotheby's. You saw ETH listed with US dollars, pounds, euros, yen, all of the major currencies of the world as a denomination for bidding. And this is anti-pro saying, ETH is money.

Starting point is 00:53:47 And this is a picture of Sotheby's auction, all the currencies bidding on this, this fantastic art piece for $2.5 million, and you could buy it in ETH. Uh-huh. You know what it stands out to me on this one is like the denominations of everything. Like, US dollar, 2.5 million.

Starting point is 00:54:03 British pound 1.8 million. Japanese, what's the Japanese currency? I don't know. Yeah. Is it the yen? Yeah, Japanese yen. $285 million. Million yen.

Starting point is 00:54:14 Excuse me. ETH, 619. Like, this is the difference between scarcity and not scarcity. And it will be like 50th, potentially, in a few years. It's absolutely crazy. Like, you can literally see the money printer here. Like, all these fiat currencies with really, really high numbers have a money printer behind them. Ether, the really, really low number, has a money burner behind it.

Starting point is 00:54:43 Wow, that's hilarious. I never thought about that. It makes you wonder why you'd ever spend Ether. So, which is another question about money. David, what's this? Mihailo of the Polygon team goes on Twitter. It says, Dear Uniswap community, we have submitted a proposal to deploy Uniswap V3 to Polygon. We firmly believe that this is the right moment for this deployment to happen for the reason explained in this proposal.

Starting point is 00:55:05 Looking forward to your questions and feedback. This has now since gone up to Snapchat vote. Ryan, let's take a peek at the snapshot vote and see where that vote stands. Do the Uniswop UniT token holders want Uniswap? SWAT V3 on Polygon. On the yes side, totally against it. We have 256,000 unitokens voting yes. On the no side, we have 101.

Starting point is 00:55:29 That's it. 99.96% saying yes, we want UNISWAP V3 on Polygon. Unless a massive whale comes in with a really strong opinion about why it should be no. Looks like uniswap V3 will be deployed to Polygon. That's funny. It's interesting the community's voted, but like, why not, right? Isn't this good for uni token holders? Yeah, not surprising the vote went that way, but it's interesting to see.

Starting point is 00:55:55 What is Cammy up to these days? The Infinite Machine, it's a book on my bookshelf back there. It's a fantastic book about the birth of Ethereum. It's becoming a movie? Yeah, look at that. Yeah, Cammy Russo says on Twitter, the Infinite Machine is becoming a movie. The Ethereum movie will, of course, be produced together with the Ethereum community.

Starting point is 00:56:12 NFC's a fun production, enable its audience to become participants. Kami Russo, congratulations, turning a book into a movie. Love it. Love it. Book into a movie. What's Tokomak doing? Okay, this is Zero X Mackey, who's been on the podcast before. He's formerly one of the chefs behind sushi.

Starting point is 00:56:31 Took up the reins as the first guy. Chief Chef. Who's the guy that rugged? Chef Nomi. Chef Nomi, yeah. He rugged the original sushi product in DFI Summer. Zero X Mackey took up the reins, became a very beloved community. member, very important developer behind the sushi product.

Starting point is 00:56:49 About a month ago, stepped away from a lead dev role at sushi swap, and now got picked up as Tokomax, new chief strategy advisor. Tokomaki is apparently his new name, will be our emissary to the greater DFI facilitating Dow governance proposals, integrations, and expansions. Congratulations, Tokomak, very awesome acquisition of talent. Congratulations, Maci for moving on to new horizons. If you want to learn what Tokomak is, we have a fantastic meet the nation with them on the bankless YouTube. Yeah, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:57:22 Mackey becomes Tokomaki. I love that transition. Let's talk to NFT stuff, David. This is the first one. The NFL is experimenting with NFTs in a partnership with Ticketmaster, and they're deploying this on Polygon. Crazy. Really crazy. What a world.

Starting point is 00:57:39 What a world. It's just an experiment at this point in time, but that's how these things start. It's just experiments, right? It's like just, and Polygon's a great place to test it. If you're going to test something, you want to test it on like a side chain of some sort, right? Where transaction fees are low, where there's no like high gas barriers to entry, fantastic place to test things. You know this is not going to be the end of things because the NBA has a fantastic strategy for NFTs, partnership with Coinbase. They've also done some things obviously with flow, NBA top shots, right?

Starting point is 00:58:12 And the NFL is going to be like, we have all of these fans. again, it's the same question. They're already buying merch. They're going to a Disney boardroom. Yeah. We have all of these fans. They're already buying stuff. Why don't we get them to buy digital stuff?

Starting point is 00:58:26 That's as simple as the conversation is. And so that's what they're doing. They're starting with a polygon on that. It's pretty big news, I think. Yeah, the subcaption is the league is exploring NFT ticketing through the launch of its virtual commemorative ticket collection on the Polygon blockchain. TBD on what that actually means.

Starting point is 00:58:42 Yeah. First of many, though. for so many experiments, including Time, man, they are all in on crypto, it seems. What's this? Time Studios, Time Magazine. The Emmy Award-winning TV studio is partnering with Pablo Stanley, I'm not sure who that is,

Starting point is 00:58:55 to create an original series based on robots. So there is a robot profile picture, NFT project that's being spun up by Time to develop animated children's series based on the Roboto's animation. So these are NFTs of a children's TV show that's about robots, and there's going to be over 10,

Starting point is 00:59:14 thousand LFTs? Yeah. Spent up by Time magazine. Selt some NFTs to the kids. Yeah. Hey, you know what? It's so funny how like Time Square has basically become the place to like put your NFTs.

Starting point is 00:59:25 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get the advertisement. Get the Coke advertisements out of there and the NFT like advertisements in there. Why do people do this? Is it just like legitimacy? It's just like fun legitimacy.

Starting point is 00:59:34 Yeah. It's a big flex. I want to go, I want to go to Times Square and see this. Yeah. You want to put your turtle on time square, Ryan? Is that what you want to do? How much did that cost me? A lot.

Starting point is 00:59:42 More than your turtle. Yeah. Let me tell you that. Yeah, but it's net accretive to the turtle community. So maybe I'm willing to fund that public good, huh? More people need to learn about turtles. That would be hilarious if you put the turtle on Times Square. No.

Starting point is 00:59:55 That's not me. We haven't put a big logo of bankless on Times Square one day. That. Yes, let's do that. Is that cool? Let's do that, yeah. Macy's launches a parade inspired NFT collection for charity. So Macy's Day floats coming out tomorrow.

Starting point is 01:00:10 I'll watch the Macy's Day parade sometimes in the mornings. they're doing NFTs now as floats. What's going on? Macy's will launch NFTs in two phases. First, it's holding an auction for a set of 10 unique collectibles based on parade balloons throughout the decades. The auction for these begin at midnight Eastern time, November 19th, and we'll run through the 30th,

Starting point is 01:00:29 and then around 10 a.m. Eastern time on November 25th, that is tomorrow. Today, for you, the listener, during the Macy's Day Thanksgiving parade, people will be able to claim one of 9,500 free NFTs, and also enter a sweepstakes to win $10,000. NFTs being mainstreamed. This is the story.

Starting point is 01:00:47 That's the story here. It's so funny. The reason we included this story is because it's mainstreamed in a way that Defi could never be mainstream. It's back to our example last week of Jimmy Fallon, board apes, right? You know, getting people on Jimmy Fallon is far more interesting than God bless them. Kane Warwick, for instance. They're like Stani from Ave.

Starting point is 01:01:07 Okay? Because this is like pop culture stuff. It's just invading. It's the Trojan. horse into mainstream. Macy says the NFTs, which are ERC 721 tokens, are carbon neutral. It is working with the NFT platform suite, which is built on the Polygon blockchain. So two things here, built on Polygon. Love it. Also, again, mainstream media focusing on the carbon neutrality of these things, which ones you, like they kind of need to pay attention

Starting point is 01:01:32 to that because that's a big narrative. Yeah, for all the obvious reason. So let it be known. the greater world cares about carbon neutrality. Don't tell them that Polygon is also economically settled by Ethereum Burns Gas, which is right now proof of work backed. Don't tell them that. Well, one day. One day. We'll be changing that soon.

Starting point is 01:01:54 But Bitcoin has no plans to change from proof of work. That's for sure. Let's talk about some Bitcoin news. El Salvador is planning its first Bitcoin city backed by Bitcoin Bonds. Apparently the Bitcoin city is going to be located close. to a volcano so that the geothermal activity can create energy to fund Bitcoin mining facilities. What is happening in El Salvador? They're going all in, aren't they? Yeah, they kind of feel like the Michael Saylor, but like a country. So, yeah, they are issuing bonds.

Starting point is 01:02:28 Bonds, I actually don't know the diamonds here. They're issuing like $6 billion worth of bonds in order to foster this city that's around the Bitcoin mining volcano. So yeah, really, really just doubling down on the whole like Bitcoin branding thing. It's kind of, it's kind of strange, isn't it? It's a little strange. Bitcoin, volcano, city, bonds, El Salvador. Yeah, El Salvador. Yeah, dictator leader. Like, yeah. It's a bit strange. But Bitcoiners are very excited about this. Maybe this is, the IMF is not excited about it. Yeah. The IMF is warning El Salvador of Bitcoin related risks in this new statement. The IMF is, of course, international monetary fund. This is a collection of bankers. These are the global banker elites. And what do they say? Direct quote.

Starting point is 01:03:13 Given Bitcoin's high price volatility, its use as a legal tender entails significant risk to consumer protection, financial integrity, and financial stability. You can just picture a banker kind of waving their finger at El Salvador. Its use also gives rise to financial contingent liabilities. That sounds like a threat. Because of these risks, Bitcoin should not be used as legal tender. Stamp your feet. You know what? The IMF doesn't realize that the IMF doesn't get to decide what money is. They still think that they do. And that to me is interesting, right?

Starting point is 01:03:48 Using the whole volatility fud to talk to just, you know, undermine the legitimacy of Bitcoin. Trying to strong arm El Salvador into not using Bitcoin, which is interesting, using volatility, and this is just the start, right? It's like if you see more a country start to adopt, put, you know, cryptocurrencies on their, on their balance sheets, man, what's the IMF going to do? Right. I can just see like the archetype of El Salvador just responding to the IMF. You know what I'm going to do now?

Starting point is 01:04:19 I'm going to use Bitcoin even harder. It's a little bit like that. I just get a crack out of these legacy institutions thinking they get to decide what money is. The people do. This is what Chris John Carlos said. This is a social, money is a social contract. It's a bottom-up phenomenon. It's not a top-down phenomenon.

Starting point is 01:04:36 If you think it is, I guess you're going to go, like, inflate your currency way. It's like, it's not going to work out well for you. The IMF used my favorite euphemism. Consumer protection. They're kind of really mean incumbent protection. That's what the IMF does. I mean, like, they should be worried about, about fiat. They should be worried about, you know, confidence.

Starting point is 01:04:56 Yeah, whoops. Yeah. This is interesting. This is 10 epic Bitcoin mining photos from Anthemphiote. Anthony Popliano's newsletter. And we just included this because it's such an interesting, I think, contrast, right? It's like, I feel like lately, David, Bitcoin is almost bifurcated from the rest of crypto, right? It's like the rest of crypto having these battles between Ethereum and alternative layer

Starting point is 01:05:20 ones over like scalability and talking about defy, talking about NFTs. It's like a different world. And over here is like Bitcoin and they're talking about volcano cities and El Salvador. and here's a picture of like 10 epic Bitcoin mining photos. They are epic. They are very epic. I guess. In it like a, yeah.

Starting point is 01:05:40 I don't know. Are like factories epic? They're big. They're gigantic. But like when I see these pictures personally, my reaction is like, hmm, are these necessary? Like I just like, when we have proof of steak, this looks like waste to me. Right.

Starting point is 01:05:58 Personally. Totally. And it's, yeah. I think Bitcoiners, they see these facilities all over the world, like big facility in China, big facility in Norway, big facility in Montana, and they see decentralization, right? They see hardcore investment into Bitcoin, into energy production all over the world, and they see decentralization. Can I show you my equivalent to a Bitcoin mining farm, but for proof of sake?

Starting point is 01:06:27 Yeah. Do you have a picture? Here it is. We can show me. This is my equivalent. Macbook pro. For the juxtaposition, go down to one of the big mining operations. Who's my favorite one? Because this looks like, yeah, okay.

Starting point is 01:06:41 Here's my equivalent for proof of sake. It's right here in my hands. I'm holding it up. That's your capital? It's got a battery. Yeah. Yeah, that's your cap. That's your validator.

Starting point is 01:06:50 That's your mining equipment basically. For the listeners, I'm holding it my laptop air. Yeah. Well, okay. So like, we're staking right now on Rocket Pool. from a raspberry pie. It's running, running ethnos and a validator. It's like bankless is doing that.

Starting point is 01:07:06 Right. Yeah. So like the two versions of the future are ahead of us. Like one is these big and maybe they can coexist over the long term. I don't really think so. But like one is these big, big mining farms all over the world like connected to some sort of energy source. Bitcoiners will say like the mining incentivizes the energy production and that's cool. And so like, you know, big, these big, big facilities versus the proof of stake, which is,

Starting point is 01:07:29 is everyone's got their home laptop staking on Ethereum. It's using the idle resources of your computer in the background. And it's everywhere all over the world. The tokens don't actually exist anywhere, unlike the Bitcoin mining units, the A6. And so like if this computer, if I drop this computer and it breaks, I can just like, you know,

Starting point is 01:07:46 move the tokens to a different computer. It doesn't actually exist physically in the world. Like what version seems more futuristic to you? They both seem very futuristic, but they also look like very different futures. They do, right? these ASICs that we're looking at, these, like, you know, data centers full of these ASICs, these specialized mining computers, basically.

Starting point is 01:08:07 You know, Ether is just a virtual ASIC. Yep. It's just a virtualized version of an ASIC when you stake it. Yeah, and I'm just struck lately, David, by like the bifurcation kind of narratives. Like, crypto is kind of split into two pieces. Two cultures. Two cultures. Two cultures.

Starting point is 01:08:23 This is interesting to you. I feel like every week another athlete is deciding to, to, to, you know, to be a lot of take their salary in Bitcoin. So this is O'Dell Beckham Jr. From the Rams taking a salary in Bitcoin. Yeah. I guess we'll see more of that too. That's a story.

Starting point is 01:08:40 That's what was going on in Bitcoin. Felt a little different than what's going on the rest of the crypto space, particularly this week. But what's going on the regulatory front is Citigroup is appointing a new head of digital assets. It's eyeing 100 new hires as well on digital assets. So the banks come to the table as we knew they would a little bit late, but realizing you have to get on this crypto thing before it eats their lunch.

Starting point is 01:09:06 Any thoughts here? Yeah, where are they going to find 100 really good crypto hires? Oh, they don't have to be really good, sir. Like they're like... They could just be not very good. Well, that's kind of what I'm saying, right? Like, if you want to have good crypto, like products, you need to hire crypto-native people. Otherwise, like, how can you advise on where the product should be built?

Starting point is 01:09:28 Where are they going to find 100 qualified crypto people? Look at our jobs board. Like those are the coolest crypto jobs of all time. Like people are going to go there first before they go to Citigroup. Like, oh, I'm super passionate about crypto. I want to help build out the world of crypto. Where should I go? City Group?

Starting point is 01:09:44 I don't think these positions are going to track the crypto natives, right? I think these positions are going to track the corporate people who are interested in kind of the next big thing, right? But the products that are going to be determined by the people that they hire, right? So if they don't hire crypto natives, then the products that come out as a result of these things are going to be different. I am so skeptical that crypto banks are going to be able to actually develop any interesting crypto products. One exception so far, this exception to the role has been fidelity in my mind. Which is like they're crushing it, but they started as crypto native believers like six years ago. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Starting point is 01:10:23 But they're definitely coming to the table. I expect we'll see a lot of acquisitions. personally. So I think these banks will acquire crypto companies as a way forward. Tetherfud. Tetherfud. Tetherfud, yeah. Things are heating up for Tether. The U.S. Senate sent a letter for requesting immediate information about their backings, redemption process, and activities due to several market integrity concerns. Tether has been given 10 days to respond. Tether has been probed like this before and has come out on the other side of these things, like completely clean. But I feel like this is just going to keep on happening until the end of time.

Starting point is 01:10:55 the Senate. This is coming from the committee on banking, housing, and urban affairs, the same committee that did that whole, like, cryptocurrencies, what are they even good for? This is probably one of their action items, right? It's like, we got to investigate that tether thing. Yeah. Yeah, another week, more tether fud.

Starting point is 01:11:13 It's held up. The thing about tether, though, is you don't know what's behind it, right? Because it's not, you can't view source. You can't, like, open source a code. It's not defy. So I understand the concerns. I just, like, not a big deal in my mind. mind. What's Biden doing? Okay. Oh, this is, I guess maybe a quick drive-by is Powell is named as the

Starting point is 01:11:33 Fed chair again. So free-appointed as the Fed chair. So I think the existing policy is going to continue into the future. I think this general gist that I've gotten about this news is that like people are just going, the Fed is going to likely continue to be warm towards money printing. I think that's the gist that I've gotten. Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't look like a restrictive policy. What's this, David? Somebody is suing pool together. Because the pool together branded as a no-loss lottery. Well, the guy lost money because of gas fees.

Starting point is 01:12:04 So this guy is suing pool together because he didn't get his money back because of gas fees. And so he sent in $25 of USDC, received 25 tickets of USDC and pooled together, and then had a gas payment of $161. Therefore, the person is effectively paying $186 for $25 and pooled together. lottery tickets and is now suing pool together for being a no loss lottery but having but having a but having to pay the gas fees like it's completely nonsensical but don't you like isn't this only worth like whatever he paid even the best case he wins is he gets $200 back this is like small claims court stuff this is weird we need like judge duty for crypto right who would by the way throw this

Starting point is 01:12:46 conspiracies about this what's your conspiracy oh it's a great news story to advertise how high gas fees how high gas fees on Ethereum are? Here's another one. I don't know if you saw this. It's kind of buried in the thread here. He's gravely, this is from the actual notice here. He's gravely concerned that the cryptocurrency ecosystem, which requires the use of enormous amounts of electricity

Starting point is 01:13:09 is accelerating climate change and allowing people to evade financial regulations and scam customers. God, what a fucking asshole. Well, it's like, but another like conspiracy theory would be this entire thing was just built to actually say that last sentence there, which is like cryptocurrency is bad, destroying the climate, allowing people to evade financial regulations and scam consumers. That might be the reason for this case,

Starting point is 01:13:37 not the $200 or $25 and he lost. Eric Connor follows up this thread saying he should sue the CEO of Ethereum. He should do that. He should do that. Last thing for news, David, finance smart chain validators are threatening to dump the chain and move on. I don't know if you read this thread on GitHub, but it is an absolute shit show, dude. Yeah, it's pretty bad. They are upset. What's happening? Yeah, somebody who is apparently a VSE validators goes in the GitHub for buying it smart chains. Guys, seriously, WTF, this is a blockchain with

Starting point is 01:14:08 supposedly billions of value. Yet it is governed and developed like the project of a stone teenager. I've rarely seen some things handled so unprofessionally. There is no code review. Patches are simply committed in most cases, even without a proper description of what do or what problem they're trying to solve. There doesn't appear to be any reasonable testing in place. Every update seems to make things worse. There's zero responding to bug reports. Hundreds of people report non-syncing nodes or nodes falling out of sync.

Starting point is 01:14:33 Response from the developer's zero. There's a list of other complaints. Apparently, Binance smart chain is not treating their smart chain as the billion-dollar network that it is. And, you know, it's apparently the validators are very upset about it. Well, fork of geth. And then they're just like increasing. Lazy block limits until the thing falls over, right?

Starting point is 01:14:54 I've heard this story before. It's falling over. Yeah, absolutely. We got more to say. This has happened a few times. We got more to say. And we're going to come back with the takes. And I think we're going to start with this Twitter drama again, this abandoning Ethereum

Starting point is 01:15:05 thread. We've got to pick back up on that. Give our thoughts, give some takes around the Twitter sphere as well. But before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible. Macha, everyone's favorite deck aggregator, has just launched an open beta for gasless trading. So if you're trading more than $5,000 in common eth and wrapped Bitcoin pairs, then your gas fees on Macha are free. And that's why you should be using Macha.

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Starting point is 01:16:50 to. Using Ledger Live, you can stake your Ethan Lido, swap on Dexas like Paraswap, or display your NFTs with Rainbow. You can also use Wallet Connect inside of Ledger Live to connect to all the other Defi apps that keep coming online. Defi never stops growing, and the Ledger Live app grows alongside with it. So click the link in the show notes to see all of the Defy apps that Ledger Live has, and stay tuned as more apps come online. And if you don't have a Ledger hardware wallet, what are you even waiting for? Go to Ledger.com, grab a ledger. Download ledger live and get all of your defy apps all in one space. All right, guys, we are back with the takes of the week.

Starting point is 01:17:27 Let's start here where we left off in the news. There was this tweet abandoning Ethereum, Ethereum, abandoning its users. This is Suzu from A16Z. David, do you want to just set the stage? What was the context for this before we give some of our takes and then the takes from around the community? Yeah, so Suzu is kind of like the starting, really started this whole thing off. But Suu is a member of Three Ours Capital. We've had three O's Capital on the show before, right, during, like, the peak of the May run, where Ether was, like, breaking all-time highs into the $4,000 range, and there was, like, the whole, like, flippeting narrative.

Starting point is 01:18:02 Had them on the show. Three Ours Capital, they are traders. They trade on narratives. They make big, big moves over, like, maybe a couple months to half a year to a year-long time, time horizon moves, and they just trade. And they're really good at it. They're really good at it. They've been doing it for a long time. Yeah, they move markets.

Starting point is 01:18:21 They literally have billions and billions of dollars. And so people pay attention to what these guys say because, you know, whoever's got a billion dollars, like captures a bunch of attention, especially when they have the track record that they do. Lately, since the last, like, maybe six months or so, they have heavily been promoing Avalanche on Twitter. And this is what they do. This is the classic, like this is what a lot of people do in this industry and not even

Starting point is 01:18:43 inside this industry, especially in this industry, but also even in the legacy industry. people funds do this hedge funds do this goldman sacks does this they fill and then they shill what that means is that they fill their bags and then they talk about their like Goldman sacks will like take a position in something and then they'll publish some like price targets it's really them just like pumping their bags right you remember when Cuban came on mark Cuban he was like uh get long then get loud yes that's his mantra for investing same thing yeah so this is this is a common activity uh it's it's annoying to some people in the industry because some people have different time horizons than like trades over three months to a year. Some people are looking at this industry 10 year long time horizons and so trading in the short term is just meaningless. And that actually is I think the juxt, really the through line behind all of the drama that happened. Here's Ryan Selkis summed it up. People thinking five months out arguing with people thinking five years out, the story of most debates on crypto Twitter. So really that kind of frames this whole conversation. Meanwhile, Suzu, Kyle Davies, really like pumping the hell out of Avalanche.

Starting point is 01:19:47 The kind of the idea, a conspiracy about why they're doing this is that they missed the Salana run, yet they saw avalanches like the next obvious target for a similar run on the heels of Salana. And so it started like pumping, like avalanche really, really hard. And if they get loud, they can kind of make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. They can kind of make it happen if they get enough people to believe it. Yeah, like Suu has like half a million followers on Twitter. Kyle Davies has a couple hundred thousand as well. people pay attention to these things and they have consistently been pumping

Starting point is 01:20:19 salon avalanche and like the ethereum community like tolerates this sort of behavior like they know like a lot of people like they don't like it but like this is part of the game they understand that traders gonna trade it's different when a lot of especially a lot of these ethel killers start actively fudding ethereum with just straight up false information and misinformation and then also start to attacking some of the actual like purpose and meaning of the builders than what they're building. And that is what happened here. Cain from Cain Warwick started off, kind of started this thing off saying, a lot of people I respected earlier in this cycle have sold out in pursuit of profit maximalism, chasing opportunistic gains of the expense of their

Starting point is 01:20:59 reputation. Remember this when they all come flooding back to the Ethereum ecosystem once L2 scaling becomes inevitable. So Cain isn't just talking just about Thero's capital. He's talking about just the cohort of people that do this, right? And to be fair, didn't name Therio's Capital. Anyone by name. Just saying this in general. Just saying it in general. Like this is relevant to three euros capital, but is relevant to a lot of people in this space

Starting point is 01:21:22 who trade on narratives and not on fundamentals. And that's another dividing line between like the debates, like people who trade on narratives or people who trade on fundamentals. And so while I, in the article I say, what happens next is that Suu responds to this tweet, claiming hypocrisy due to Cain Warwick selling a position of his SNX tokens to purchase $50 million of real estate,

Starting point is 01:21:44 in Australia across two different properties, I believe. And so we have this billionaire trader who's like doing the whole Philthin-Chill thing being critiqued by Kane Warwick, who is not a billionaire, but might be kind of close, definitely upwards of $500 million. And these two like very wealthy people going after it, one claiming that the other one is like dishonest and illegitimate, right? And so Kyle, Suu, if you want to scroll up a little bit, Ryan, Suzu says, you literally chose the worst scaling solution possible for your users to defend your own

Starting point is 01:22:19 eth bags, therefore making your own community actually poor. Now you have the audacity to insult anyone not as eth-tarded as you, good for you, is what Suzu said to Kane. So very spicy. Is that good for you? Is that go-f yourself? Is that go-f yourself? Oh, that's go-f yourself. That's what that is. I kind of made that up on the spot. I didn't really know what it was. Go-f yourself. Yeah, okay. And then Kane responds to Sue The fact that you can't see the distinction between hedging your exposure to crypto in an alternative asset and turning into the shill of a competing L1 is bizarre. I know you're smarter than this, so I'm assuming this is just an emotional response. And so, like, that was just, that was day one of fighting. A lot of, like, there was many, many threads, a lot of, like, other conversations that happened as a result of this, many people in the comments.

Starting point is 01:23:05 Everyone has to weigh in on this, right? Everyone's got a way in. Yeah. That was just day one. Day two, a little bit over 24 hours later. This is a last Saturday. Suzu tweets out, yes, I have abandoned Ethereum

Starting point is 01:23:17 despite supporting it in the past. Yes, Ethereum has abandoned its users despite supporting them in the past. The idea of sitting around jerking off while watching the burn and concocting purity tests while zero newcomers can afford the chain is gross. And these are some strong words where Ethereum has abandoned its users.

Starting point is 01:23:34 That goes to the heart of so many eith devs, both on the L1 and on all the L2 research. research that has been going on. The whole concept of roll-ups is something that was funded by the Ethereum Foundation to independent researchers to figure out the scaling problem. And Suzu's coming in and saying Ethereum has abandoned its users because

Starting point is 01:23:55 it refuses to juice up the L1 in order to compromise on decentralization in order to actually create scale enough to fit everyone. It begs the question, what does abandoning users actually mean, right? It's like, are you, by centralizing the thing, is that the worst abandonment of users? Yes. In my mind, abandoning decentralization is the abandonment of the individual because decentralization and individuals go hand in hand. That's the topic for a different day. But you also said something. Oh, I actually kind of did say that. So maybe that's a topic for right now. It's relevant.

Starting point is 01:24:26 So I follow up to this Suu tweet saying, Suzu, abandoning decentralization is the biggest sin that you can commit in this space. It's easier to fix fees than it is to fix decentralization. A lot of people didn't really like that sin word. However, I did. choose it extremely precisely, but that is a kind of a larger elaboration point, which I won't go into here. I definitely got my fair share of flack for this tweet because people were throwing poo left and right on these Twitter threads. But the majority of the critiques was that I was making the assumption that anything that's not Ethereum is, quote, not decentralized and that I'm co-opting the word decentralization to only mean Ethereum. Well, the thing is, Avalanche is a blockchain that is absolutely, it's a fork of death, and it's just pushing the limits. It's just like juicing up how much throughput that you can actually have on the chain

Starting point is 01:25:17 to the point where like if they add any more, the chain falls apart and they know this because they have had to cap the number of validators that can validate the chain because if there's too many nodes, not enough nodes can sink up to the chain and it causes the chain to just fork off and not be able to have consensus. Literally the network topples over. We saw the same exact phenomenon happen with Solana when it went down for 17 hours. Like it got too juiced and the network just froze because they just pushed it to the limits too much. We were just talking earlier about Binance Smart Chain, right?

Starting point is 01:25:46 All the issues that validators are having with Binance Smart Chain is because like big blocks and it becomes more centralized and possible to run until the entire thing not only centralizes but then falls over. Right. So these, all these same ETH killer chains, what they are really doing is they are just pushing the limits on network throughput up to the point of instability and then not going actually any further, right? Just like almost unstable, but not quite. Yes, not all of them get to that point of instability, but all of them like get to the point where,

Starting point is 01:26:16 your MacBook Pro can no longer run an actual non-validating node, right? It has to be in a data center. It has to be a big, strong, beefy machine. And they say that's okay. They say that's fine. And Ethereum says, no, that's not fine. That is centralization. That is the exact thing that we're fighting.

Starting point is 01:26:35 That is the old system. We want a more decentralized system. here. Yeah, it really goes, and I'm going to make a video or something about this later, but like, it really goes, like, is the network separating its participants into two classes of citizens? The people that can validate the system and the people that are just users of that system, because that is, like, there's a lot to unpack there. But let's go back through the story. And I kind of add some context in this post that I put out on Monday. The Ethereum community is known for its inclusivity and its openness. The culture, this culture, this culture

Starting point is 01:27:08 of inclusivity came out as a reaction to the closed-mindedness and maximalism fostering of Bitcoin culture that eventually pushed Vitalik out of Bitcoin and many, many other future Ethereum out of Bitcoin circles, and ultimately those people ended up gravitating towards Ethereum because that was, Ethereum was a reaction to the lack of inclusivity of Bitcoin. This openness and acceptance of Ethereum is a very important part of Ethereum culture, but it's also a double-edged sword. Bitcoiners have learned to make very firm hardline stances where Ethereum has, have been more willing and accepting and trusting of new ideas, new people, and new efforts.

Starting point is 01:27:42 This has allowed Ethereum as a community to grow, but it also lets wolves come in wearing sheep clothing. In 2018 to 2020, Ethereum did not have a spine. During this time, Bitcoiners actually set the narrative of what Ethereum was, and Ethereum as a community was just a complete pushover. It's actually Ryan here that made this big flag in the ground, I think around 2019, saying ETH is money. Yo, fun fact, Ryan Sean Adams made the ETH is money. money meme because it was a reaction because all the bitcoiners like eth isn't money uh bitcoin's money and like and we started like no eth is money and we actually started to grow his spine as a reaction to all the bitcoin or fud that happened with ethereum and now it says sotheby's by the way now it's on

Starting point is 01:28:22 south of ethos money and so this this culture that we've had we were ethereum actually standing up for himself is completely different now and this is what happened in reaction to suzu's tweet we have hayden adams saying no issue with l1s that prioritize immediate scaling over decentralization many users want this. But this is a really bad take, incredibly insulting to everyone working on ETH2 and layer 2s, especially from someone who has gained extraordinary wealth off the backs of Ethereum builders. Ethereum is a massive investor in Starkware, who we just had on the show, and they are working on scaling Ethereum. So, like, this whole, like, narrative of shenanigans on Twitter.

Starting point is 01:28:57 It's just, like, such short-term... Not just three-hour capital, too. You know, um, Arthur. Yeah, multi-coin. Yeah, defiance capital. Defiance Capital, it's like, Deviance Capital was a big investor in synthetics in the early days and made like a lot of money on their D5 bets with synthetics. Carry on. Defiance Capital is a capital firm that was bankrolled by three-roes capital.

Starting point is 01:29:21 Sazel, Anthony Sazano says, Ethereum's were born in the Fudd, molded by it. We survived a brutal bear market and came out stronger than another. We're not going to sit back and let bullshit be spread around Ethereum. We're going to fight back with everything you got. DC investor says, project teams. I strongly recommend you stop giving allocations on your cap table to funds who don't give a flying F about the ecosystem you are building in or the goals you are trying to achieve. Money is plentiful in the space.

Starting point is 01:29:46 You always have the option. In the last tweet here, Eric Connor, I loved how fired up crypto Twitter gets when the Ethereum community actually decides to defend itself. Every day, Ethereum killers just shit misinformation on Ethereum, sometimes you have to defend. Sell us your eth at $4,400, then go F off. And like the interesting thing, that I think is really cool about the story is what I'm calling the critique chain.

Starting point is 01:30:10 This is the pattern that we see going on right now. The Ethereum community is critiquing the Ethereum killers in the same way that Bitcoiners critiqued Ethereum back in the day. A centralized blockchain that only a few people could run nodes on, early insiders got an outsized allocation of funds, building an ecosystem on empty promises. These are the same critiques, but now it's just different communities

Starting point is 01:30:30 pointing these critiques at other different communities. So it makes sense. when Avalanche and Solana community looks towards the Ethereum community and sees the same things that Ethereum see in Bitcoin. The incumbent chain wants to spin the narrative that every other chain

Starting point is 01:30:43 is as centralized as a VC chain. The disruptor chain wants to spend the narrative of the lazy, loss of plot elitists who no longer care about the values they originally purported. These critiques just get passed down the line, right? So what is actually true?

Starting point is 01:30:57 What is actually true? Okay, so all of this, here's the critique, David. All of what you just said, it sounds like you're an eth-maxi. That's what they would say. They would say you are like doing the same thing that Bitcoin Maximilus did previously in saying the only money is Bitcoin, the only chain is Bitcoin, everything else is just like

Starting point is 01:31:16 a shit coin, everything else is garbage, right? Now you're saying that Ethereum's way is the only way. Is this what you're saying? And like Ethereum equals decentralization, both are the same. But like these other chains are redefining what decentralization actually means. And your view is too narrow. you are an Ethereum Maxim. So what do you say to that critique?

Starting point is 01:31:37 Yeah. So what I say to that critique is there are twofold. There's two things that are really, really important about a network. Who's got all of the tokens and who can run the chain? Those are the two like variables that are really important when it comes to decentralization. And so what is actually true about this? Someone is right in these criticisms about like you've gone too far down the centralization. spectrum. And so I think that Bitcoiners, Bitcoin Maxis are wrong about Ethereum. They say, like,

Starting point is 01:32:08 Ethereum's got this pre-mine. It had all these insiders. The Ethereum presale was an open, permissionless, censorship-resistant non-KYC presale that sold 60 million of the 72 total million ether to over 9,000 participants on day one and raised $14 million for funding. Of that 12 million that was left over, half went to the Ethereum Foundation to fund development. and that has, part of that EF, like, it just pays client teams, plays for research. It gave Starkware a $4 million grant to fund ZK roll-up technology, which now powers immutable, so rare, DYDX, and which three hours capital is an investor in. And so, like, a lot of these, the half of the $12 million that wasn't sold to the public

Starting point is 01:32:56 went to funding operations like this. The other half went to, like the Ethereum co-founders and early contributors, like Vitalik, Joe Lubin, Mahaliy, a bunch of other people. This sounds like distant past though. Like somebody could argue like, okay, you know, so what? It's distant past. Like what, you know, replace, I guess distribution. Distribution is less, is more concentrated with a Solano or Avalanche or Layer 1,

Starting point is 01:33:24 but it'll get less, it'll get more distributed over time, right? It's like eventually some of these people who made a lot of money are going to actually sell. It'll just get more decentralized. Everything you just talked about, for a lot of people, they weren't there in those early days. So they didn't benefit from the crowd sale or any of the upside, right? So like, what about that? Are you just, I mean, you're just saying that the centralization line stops at Ethereum, right? The decentralization line stops at Ethereum.

Starting point is 01:33:53 These people are saying, no, it's actually, we could go a little further. We'd go to Avalanche. We could go to Solana. And that's fine. Right. So on the spectrum of things, like Solana and Avalanche are way more decentralized than like your typical commercial bank. Like they are on the decentralization spectrum.

Starting point is 01:34:09 But the difference between the Ethereum presale and the VC-backed Avalanche and Salana chains is that the Genesis event for the Salana tokens and Avalanche tokens was only given to insider VCs. And so where the Ethereum pre-sale was open and permissionless, the actually having upside to the very beginnings of, this network was reserved for already heavily financially capitalized investors. You saw the people on the All In podcast, the four billionaires who are on this big flex fest talking about their massive salon bags and how they made a billion dollars. It wasn't open to the public. And the first impressions for these chains are really, really important because they create the culture downstream.

Starting point is 01:34:50 And so this is also where the actual system design of the blockchains also impacts this, where the centralization of the difficulty of running a node also restricts who can actually verify the chain. And so these things tilt towards centralization over time. Only a few people were able to have early access to the tokens. Only a few people can run the chain. And so the centralization is double, is twofold, right? There's too many people with early bagholders owning the bags,

Starting point is 01:35:20 and then there's two few people that can actually validate the chain. One of the beautiful things about Ethereum's version of proof of stake and also having a proof of work phase prior to that is that there's been this massive distribution event because everyone can run the chain. I started off with mining Ethereum. That my first ether that I ever got, I got from mining, it's myself as an individual because I have the power to do that because of the design of the network of Ethereum. That is not true for Avalanche. That's not true for Solana. You need to have very significant beefy hardware. you need to have knowledge with how to run a system like this because it's complicated,

Starting point is 01:35:55 and then you also need to have a significant supply of the tokens in order to stake on these delegated proof of stake systems. And so it's really about what culture are you instilling in your chain from day one? Are you instilling a culture of decentralization, or are you instilling a culture of pumping the bags of the insiders and restricting the ability for the average individual to run a node or to have access to the upside? And so this is the difference that, like, and I don't ever,

Starting point is 01:36:21 want to like tell someone that they can't go use these systems. This is not a conversation about the users. If you are a user of avalanche and if you are a user of Solana and you are happy, that is great. We are not talking about you. We are talking about the people that are building these systems and are not thinking about the long-term consequences of decentralization in five to 10 to 50 years. Yeah, so here's the thing, David. It's like it's for me, it's not even, it's not even that these other chains exist on another point of the decentralization spectrum. Like, that is totally fine. I think we should have, we should have a rich spectrum of, you know, centralized things,

Starting point is 01:36:57 you know, side chains and crypto banks, exchanges, you know, a more fintech type of chains. And then we should have things like a decentralized, you know, decentralized Bitcoin and Ethereum kind of on the other end of the spectrum. What kills me is like the decentralization theater, right? It's the pretending to be a thing that you're not. It's a world where you're pretending there are no tradeoffs. It's a world with in Suzoo. original tweet where it's like Avalanche cares about users because it has low gas fees right now

Starting point is 01:37:28 and Ethereum doesn't because it has high gas fees right now, right? Without acknowledging or recognizing the tradeoffs, it's the deception that kills me. Yes. Okay, it's like the deception. The deception in order to pump a narrative. It was the deception. Yeah, the deception. And deception in pursuit of bag pumping, in pursuit of wealth, right? From people who are already accepted. We're exceptionally wealthy. The wealthiest people in crypto. I've done exceptionally well. And it's just this gets back to like why we're here and the responsibility that we have, right?

Starting point is 01:37:59 As early settlers in these strange new lands, like we're here first and I feel very strongly that we have a responsibility to future generations to get this whole thing right because we have one shot at it. Okay. It could be five years, 10 years come to pass. Like I think crypto is inevitable. Blockchain is like this whole thing is inevitable. What's not inevitable is that.

Starting point is 01:38:20 the other side of this, we have a decentralized open permissionless money system. That part is not inevitable. What could very much happen is on the other side of this crypto transformation, we make a whole bunch of new bankers super wealthy and they're just new bankers that again, control the masses, you know, clamp things down and extract, become rent extractors, right? that's not I so I think the people in this space who are here now actually should be held to a higher standard right and like they should acknowledge and accept the responsibility I get if you're like if you're a trader you're just here you're trying to make money your profit maximalist that's okay too like we need profit maximalists in the space too you you know you're a mercenary okay there are settlers

Starting point is 01:39:07 they're mercenaries you're a mercenary that's fine but acknowledge you're efficient that's a valuable contribution. That's valuable. But like, acknowledge you're a mercenary. Don't try to pretend you're a settler and like actually be a mercenary. That's what pisses me off. And I think that's why this tweet, you know, caught fire. So it's like it's not it's it's not really about the users, is it? And yeah, that's that's why I think this tweaked a lot of people. Yeah. So Sue is trying to brand himself as like, oh, I care about the users and Ethereum people don't because I'm promoting Avalanche, which which actually has a blockchain that has cheap fees. Also, in the last, like, week or so,

Starting point is 01:39:46 avalanche usage has actually gone up to where a un-swap trade cost $20. I saw a un-swap trade cost $20. A lot of these things have cheap fees because they're not being used, right? And so, like, not only is there deception about, like, the intentions, but it's also just straight-up deception as the actual innovations that are happening on these chains. You don't get to just call the fact that you spun up a chain and it has had empty blocks for the last two years,

Starting point is 01:40:10 innovation because there's cheap fees. And this, Hazu had a really good take about this, where he said, truth be told, other than choosing different points on the decentralization cost spectrum, what 10x useful improvements have other layer ones made in the last four years? And so a lot of frustration out of the Ethereum community is that Avalanche, again, which is just a fork of geth. We already have Geth. Avalanche forked it, juiced up the block sizes, and then called it innovation, right? And sure, there is demand for that, especially when Ethereum fees are like $200 to do anything. anything on the layer one. Of course there's going to be demand for that. But what you don't get to say

Starting point is 01:40:45 is that you haven't compromised on decentralization and you care about users. And caring about users a point is really, really important point because if you are not able to run your node, you are the product. It's the same thing with Facebook and the whole Web 2 paradigm. If you are the product, like the users are the product. And so if you can't run a node, you are some bankers product. And that is the difference between a fully decentralized system where you users are self-sovereign and everyone is equal versus a compromise system where only a few people can run a node and it's not you yeah and you know i'd remind people because a retort to that is like well most people don't run their own nodes do they when they press a button on metamask right it's like no

Starting point is 01:41:27 they don't but they have the option to have the ability to it's incredibly important having the option to leave the system or to verify the system for yourself make sure that you have the same amount of power that everyone else has. Right. It's like I don't, I don't vote in every single election. Like I try to vote in all the major election, but I don't vote in every single election.

Starting point is 01:41:47 But having the ability to vote in elections is the thing I want preserved in my governance protocols, right? If you can't run a vote, if you can't run a node, non-validating note, you have no vote. You have no ability to say which block is valid and which is not, you know, which upgrade is valid and which is not.

Starting point is 01:42:07 and it removes power from the user base. Anatoly, the CEO of Solana, said that Solana is objectively decentralized, which is already an oxymoron because you can't actually measure decentralization, therefore you can't objectively be decentralized. It's always subjective at the end of the day. But then Pauli Naya responds to this claim

Starting point is 01:42:26 that Solana is objectively decentralized, saying, ah, yes, objective decentralization. Like giving half of the tokens applied to insiders, creating a delegated proof-of-sake consensus mechanism so that they can rule over it and making it so expensive that it's not a trustless network with only validators and a few users running nodes to defend against validator attacks. This is the difference between the network topology of Ethereum

Starting point is 01:42:46 and the network of the topology of a chain that has just juiced up the validator so that not everyone can run the node. And then there was a lot of Ethereum developer pushback against the whole abandoning the users thing. And the power about layer twos is that if you want to compromise on decentralization, you can do that on a level. layer two. And you can literally port the Avalanche blockchain, the Salana blockchain, onto a layer two, and then retain all the decentralization compromises that you've already made and even

Starting point is 01:43:18 be able to have an even more cheap and more throughput environment, yet you also still get the decentralization and security that Ethereum has prioritized. And so this is also something that really frustrates the Ethereum people is that like you have this side chain of Avalanche where you can port from Ethereum to the Avalanche L1, using. a bridge. But that bridge could have been turned into a cryptographically secure roll-up and have Avalanche be rolled up on Ethereum and have that be much more secure and retained decentralization, but they didn't do that because pumping L1 tokens is way easier, especially when you just give them to people like, give the tokens to three hours capital at the genesis of the, of the whole

Starting point is 01:43:59 entire chain, in order to get this like pay for the mercenaries that like bootstrap this fake community around it. Same thing that happened to Salana. If you can't generate a community yourself, give your tokens to multi-coin capital. They'll do it for you, right? And so this is kind of where a lot of Ethereum people get frustrated. It's like you're compromising on decentralization when you could have just been done a roll-up and you're making it an L-1 because you need people to invest in your chain. And because the community wasn't going to do it anyways in the first place.

Starting point is 01:44:27 Like this is where a significant amount of frustration for me comes from too. Yeah, I do think there's a lot of it. I want to be careful, though, because like I think that one thing that, I don't think you're saying is that these other chains don't have like communities or users or this sort of thing, right? They didn't first. They didn't lead with that. Yeah, but there's also, there's like a question of like, yeah. So, you know, many of these chains have, you know, developers, they have activity. They have, they have a lot of things that are getting built on them. I mean, Solana has a fantastic wallet, for example, the Phantom wallet, which is, you know,

Starting point is 01:45:03 arguably a better wallet experience than what Ethereum has today. Like there's some stuff getting built out in these chains, right? So like whether the asset justifies everything that's getting built out or not is maybe a different question. And so like from a user perspective, I think going back to that point, it's like users should feel free to use whatever solution they feel like. Go use Robin Hood if you want. Go use Coinbase if you want. Go use a side chain. Go use Polygon.

Starting point is 01:45:32 go use avalanche, go use Solana if you want. Just use whatever you want. So there's no judgment here. The wrath, I think, is coming from people who are just exploiting retail investors on short-run narratives that they actually know don't have sustainable longevity. And they're flooding projects that are taking the slower, more difficult, decentralized route. That's where it goes off course. That's where people get frustrated. And I hope that comes through.

Starting point is 01:46:06 So like let's talk about some other reactions from the community. So what is Cyrus saying here? Yeah, Cyrus says, demand for cryptocurrency has greatly outpaced the technology given the macro climate. VCs and other financial opportunists have found a way to monetize this imbalance by shilling, centralized change to satiate the demand from retail. To save face, they claim that they are offering experimental alternatives with credible decentralization plans, dubious. ETH Maxis, as a combination of A, true passion for decentralization and B, B, their bags are fighting back against this narrative. When ETH, or even BTC for that matter, given its status as the only other reason

Starting point is 01:46:42 will be decentralized coin, finally scales, literally every single one of the opportunists will be back. This is all short-term monetization plan due to the difficulties in actually scaling this tech. I'm skeptical. Anyone actually thinks these centralized chains are the future. If they do end up being fully decentralized, then I guess the Ethereum community was wrong.

Starting point is 01:47:00 place your short and long-term bets accordingly. That's a very rational take, I think. That's a great summary of what just happened. Here's another one. Pauli Naya. Crypto-Twitter is like an equestrian club from 1885. A bunch of spoiled and, I don't even know that word. Erascible.

Starting point is 01:47:16 Erascible brats squabbling over whose horse is the fastest. Meanwhile, a gentleman called Carl Benz was building this contraption called the automobile. He's referring to ZK roll-ups. Erassable brats. That's in the 1885. terminology there. What about this take? This is you. This is the one to round it all out. And I say, we are fortunate to be alive during a pivotal moment in human history. The choices we make here and now will have outsized impact upon future generations that use these systems. We must knowingly

Starting point is 01:47:47 take on this responsibility. And I think this is something that really defides crypto into two camps. It's people that understand that the choices we make will have impacts upon our kids and our kids, kids and our kids kids kids and so we need to make sure that we make the right choices for them today because these things will ossify little did i know when i signed up for facebook in high school that facebook would be causing civil wars 10 15 20 years down the line or swaying the actual election of the united states of america i didn't know that when i signed up for facebook but this is and my favorite quote from from the cypherpunks manifesto is that cypherpunks understand that the code they write impacts the people that use it. And so we need to make sure we have a very small window of opportunity

Starting point is 01:48:29 to actually make sure that these systems that we are designing are people first now and for forever. And there's a lot of people who, the profit maxis out there that are trading, they're doing whatever they're going to do. It's the profit maxis that trade on the, try to like make this their narrative to while they apply it to their bags that don't actually resemble this straight this narrative. They know that this is true. They know that the decisions we make are critically important right now. And then they say that they are making those same choices on some things that's actually compromised and actually decentralized. That is inexcusable in my mind. Yeah. Do you know what's funny? You know, write this in a newsletter, bankless newsletter,

Starting point is 01:49:13 which is supposed to be sort of a crypto investor newsletter. And this is supposed to be a crypto investor podcast. But we are not actually profit maximalists. We're not. which is like sacrilege to say in in some circles. I think somebody like at three hours capital, you know, Susu's like, why aren't you profit maximalist? You should be. Right. Right.

Starting point is 01:49:34 But it's like there are things that are more important than making money in this space. And one of the things that I think we care deeply about and bankless cares deeply about is that we actually create a bankless money system for the world. That's a decentralized property rights system for the metaverse, right? This is our opportunity and so close. Like, if we get it right, there's literally, it's like literally a fork in the road. We get it right. We've got a fantastic future ahead of us.

Starting point is 01:50:02 If we get it wrong, well, it's going to be a repeat of the broken kleptocratic system that we see in the physical world except in the metaverse. It might be even worse than the metaverse, right? So like, I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to get this right. And it's like people are going to get super wealthy along the way. Like, you're going to do great. holding these ideals, right? Because you're here early, you're building the future, you're not going to be as wealthy as the pure profit maximalist, but like, how do you measure

Starting point is 01:50:34 wealth? It goes back to how do you measure wealth? Is it just about your, you know, net worth? Is that the only measure of wealth? Or you actually care about, like, the systems that you're building and the economic value that you create for the world around you, it's incredibly important. like back to, you know, it's more like the 1780s than, you know, the 1980s or the 1990s, right? Because we're creating a constitution here. We're creating a governance protocol. And it's incredibly important that we get the balance of power, the decentralization, right? Because people are literally going to be living on top of the systems that we're building today into the future.

Starting point is 01:51:15 So we're not profit maximalist. And I, you know, I don't make apologies for that. I think, you know, the bankless program is like more of rewarding. than just profit maximalism. Like, you'll do fine. I think people historically have done really well, you know, on bankless and on this journey. But it's not optimized for making the most money possible at all times in the market. There's a, crypto is a reaction to the current status quo.

Starting point is 01:51:42 It's a reaction to the 2008 crisis. It's a reaction to the incumbency. And it's because people feel disenfranchised and left out of the system that they feel more and more aligned with crypto because crypto is more inclusive. If we, the goals of making a decentralized system that benefits our kids is, I'm not a profit maxi, but I want the most amount of wealth to be created over the long term. I want my kids to be able to have financial upsides from the crypto industry. And I want their kids to also have financial upsides on the crypto industry. But if we create another system that the population has a reaction to because of the income,

Starting point is 01:52:23 and because of the capture, then this system is going to break down. And so this is about focusing on decentralization now means that our kids can prosper and our kids' kids can prosper in a fair and equitable system. Man, let's get to it at the end. What are you excited about this week? Oh, gosh, that was long. Yeah, let's get, let's get looking forward into the future. I'm excited about all the future conferences that are coming. Right after Thanksgiving, I'm going to Miami for Art Basel, hanging out with the optimism team there, as well as Nate Mueller, the artist that I bought all those NFTs from that I'm from looking out right on my new TV NFT display thing right over my shoulder. Really, really cool. So for that. And then I go

Starting point is 01:53:02 straight to Puerto Rico for Medaverso for Puerto Rico Blockchain Week, also for the Pleaser Dow Retreat. That's going to be fantastic. In 2022, we got Eith, Denver coming in February. That is Heath Denver's home. It's going to be amazing bankless live podcast, maybe, maybe. And then right after that in May, in permissionless in Florida, where we are throwing the the bankless event with the permissionless team uh permission excuse me with the blockworks team throwing the permissionless conference where ryan and i meet for the first time just a lot of cool events on the horizon so i'm looking forward to all of them yeah that's awesome man uh you count me out for yth denver i haven't quite decided i might go i still might go i don't know we'll see it's

Starting point is 01:53:40 pretty cold though it is very cold i'll believe it when i see it you know me i guess all right ron what are you excited about uh i'm excited about starkware we had a fantastic uh conversation with them earlier this week and people don't realize how close general purpose ZK roll-up chains are. It's like I thought this was a year away, maybe two years away. I've heard estimates if this is like, you know, three to five years away. It feels like it's eminent, okay? Starknet is going to ship next week. This is like an optimism or an arbitram. It's a little bit different in some ways. You can't directly port your contracts. It's not quite as a your name native, but it's similar in a lot of ways. And transaction speeds are going to be fast.

Starting point is 01:54:28 The more transactions, the more applications, the lower the gas fees go. And it's like, it's like right here. Okay. So when you see the metaverse on it, we're going to see gaming application. We're going to see NFTs on it. We're going to see entire composable defy money logos. And it's it's here. It's going to start, I think, relatively small like in the next month or two, but six months from now, I think the crypto world is going to look completely different because we will have these ZK roll-up chains that are at least as big, if not bigger, than many of the layer one roll-ups that are out here. So I personally didn't realize this was so close.

Starting point is 01:55:08 Like I knew optimistic roll-ups were here. They're fantastic. They're a great solution. Now we've got ZK roll-ups with Starkware coming out to you. And then we also had a conversation with Polygon. who's doing some really cool stuff with ZK Tech. I'm sure we'll have ZK Sync, the Matter Labs folks on here soon,

Starting point is 01:55:26 but I really feel like 2022 is going to be a huge year for roll-ups and for scalability. That's, I'm all so excited about all those things. I know you are. All right, let's get to the meeting of the week. Volcano Cities. So this is a tweet out of Bankless HQ.

Starting point is 01:55:44 We got two people fighting in the grass. One's labeled Ethereum. One's labeled Ethereum killers. Then we have somebody posing in front of them looking like, yo, look at these idiots fighting behind me. And that's Bitcoin, Bitcoin in their volcano cities. Yeah, that was crypto-twitur this week for sure. It's so funny.

Starting point is 01:56:00 They were not, Bitcoiners were not even worried about all of the drama and crypto-twitter between Ethereum and the Heath Killers at all. They're just happy with the mining news and volcano cities and everything that's going on in the Bitcoin space. I think that about sums it up, man. Absolutely. All right, everyone, thank you for spending your Thanksgiving morning. Thanksgiving morning with us and I hope you guys have a ton of fun with your families. You don't always

Starting point is 01:56:23 have to talk about crypto, but if you do, remind them about the values of decentralization. Absolutely. And remind them to tune in to Bankless. Happy Thanksgiving from us to you. We've got so much to be thankful for this year. Let me end with the risk and disclaimers. Eith is risky. Bitcoin is risky. You could definitely lose what you put in. But we are headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone. But we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. Hey, we hope you enjoyed the video. If you did, head over to Bankless HQ right now to develop your crypto investing skills

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Bankless - ROLLUP - VCs Abandoning Ethereum | Macy's & NFL NFTs | ConstitutionDAO vs Citadel | Binance Arbitrum

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