Bankless - SOTN #12: Positioning! w/ Mariano Conti (yEARN deep dive, ETH Golden Age, ETH P/E, Sushi!)

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

STATE OF THE NATION #12 - Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 Watch on the Bankless YouTube Channel The State of the Bankless Nation is....POSITIONING! The bankless boys discuss with Mariano Conti why. Follow Mariano on Twitter!  -----  GO BANKLESS WITH THESE SPONSOR TOOLS: 💸 CRYPTO.COM - BUY, SELL, PAY W/ CRYPTO - GET THE APP (get $50 in CRO when your use promo code "BANKLESS2020" and stake 1,000 CRO) 🌈 ZAPPER - ULTIMATE HUB FOR DEFI - ZAP INTO DEFI  💳 MONOLITH - GET THE HOLY GRAIL OF BANKLESS VISA CARDS  💸 AMPLFORTH - MONETARY EXPERIMENT FOR BASE MONEY  ------ STATE OF THE NATION #12 - Tuesday, September 1, 2020 State of the Bankless Nation is....POSITIONING! The bankless boys discuss why. Special Guest...Mariano Conti. Follow Mariano here: https://twitter.com/nanexcool/ TOPICS: 1) YEARN DEEP DIVE (yETH is HUGE) 2) ETHEREUM GOLDEN AGE 3) SUSHI VS UNISWAP 4) ETH P/E IS HILARIOUS ANNOUCEMENTS: 1) Vance podcast highest viewed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3ns... 2) Merch store live - https://merch.banklesshq.com/ 3) Ledger deal 20% off - https://bankless.substack.com/p/the-d... We show: 1) yEarn vaults 2) Trifecta asset tweet 3) YFI in Aave  4) yInsurance  5) YFI governance staking 6) Sushi yields  7) Sushi farms 8) Token terminal ----- ACTION ITEMS: 1) Try yEarn (warning: highly risky!)  2) Read: How to use yEarn to maximize yield  3) Subscribe to Catch SOTN LIVE every Tuesday at 10am EST (2pm UTC)  ----- Don't stop at the video! Subscribe to the Bankless newsletter program http://bankless.substack.com/ Visit the official Bankless website for resources http://banklesshq.com/ Follow Bankless on Twitter  Follow Ryan on Twitter  Follow David on Twitter Follow DeFi Dad on Twitter  ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time we may add links in this channel to products we use. We may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. We'll always disclose when this is the case.

All right. Welcome everyone to another episode of State of the Nation. This is episode 12, and we have a fantastic show today. We're going to talk about wire, and we're going to do a deep dive. We've brought a special guest as well. Mariano Conti, who's going to help us with that deep dive. We're also going to touch some other topics, such as what everyone is doing in the crypto space, everyone who's changing, moving to new opportunities. And we're going to hit a few. Let's try to drop some insights and action items. Just as a reminder, this stream's live on Tuesday mornings. We're doing it a little bit early today. But we usually stream at about 10 a.m. Eastern time. So you can pick up the stream.

You can ask us questions live. We try to get some questions answered as well. We release this on YouTube. And then we release it in audio format on the podcast feed as well. I always start with this. question to David, and then we'll get to some quick announcements and get to the rest of the show. But David, what is the state of the nation this week, my friend? The state of the nation is positioning. We are positioning. And that's why we brought on

Mario and O'O'Nacanti, who will be here in a quick second. But a lot of cool things have happened. A bunch of people have left their longstanding careers to go off and do new ventures in this space. There's been a ton of seed investments being thrown around. into different projects that are just now getting started. There's a lot of things that people are repositioning themselves in order to prepare for what seems to be a coming bull market, which is everyone's talking about it. And because everyone's talking about it, it therefore exists.

And so people are positioning themselves. I feel like they're not only positioning themselves from a career perspective, but they're also positioning their capital, which is certainly something that you have to do in the bull run. you have to be in the right place at the right time. You have to start early. That's the number one rule for crypto investing is start early. Can't wait to talk about it. All right, a few quick announcements as well. David, we had an incredible podcast that released yesterday with Vance Spencer from Framework. That's on track to be our most downloaded episode. It is just going absolutely

crazy. David, like, can you give folks who haven't got a chance to catch up just a quick taste of that episode? Yeah, it's hard because it was so good. It was so dense. And I think every time we have a state of the nation, Van Spencer ran through, and Framework Ventures ran through that state like months ago. Like, they positioned themselves a long time ago. And one of his lines that I really liked in that episode was that he has more conviction in his finger. And fingernail than most VC firms or hedge funds have in their whole entire body. And that has been absolutely true and it's absolutely paid off for him. Vance kind of gave us like the dissected recipe of like the Bull Run so far and like where he

thinks it's going. And it's really just an all encompassing story as to how we got here and to where like this liquidity mining, yield farming, vegetable, vegetable fields thing is how this came to be. and where it fits in the grand scheme of things, which is a really important conversation to understand. So you've got to listen to it. According to its download charts, like all of Defi listen to it.

So if you haven't listened to it, like you're behind. Yeah, definitely listen to that episode to catch up. We also launched the merch store. So finally, so you can hit that atmerch. com. Pretty simple items right now. We're going to be expanding later, but you can at least buy one of these shirts

that David and I are wearing. that has been popularly demanded for quite some time. So pick one up. We also have hoodies. Also, last thing, we have a great deal that we've been working on with Ledger. So if you don't have a hardware wallet or maybe you have a ledger, but you want to position yourself for the Bull Run, you can go to the Ledger store. So Ledger is a hardware wallet and pick one up at 20% off.

So just type in bankless. You get your 20% off. It's a week-only deal. I just wanted to mention that because. If you're in the market for ledgers, I am from time to time. 20% off is probably the best deal you're going to get. David, before we get into the episode, we should talk about our mainline sponsors. Do you want to start?

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the cool new products that I've been using that is also one of the companies that has received seed investment lately is Zapper. And Zapper is this awesome tool. So I don't know, Ryan, if you use Blockfolio, but like every time I do anything on Uniswap, I have to go open up my blockfolio to like make a change, right? And like I'm a terrible bookkeeper, which means like my blockfolio is always off.

And so I've actually started to use Zapper now because Zapper is like it's like a, it's like a portfolio aggregator, but it does it with using actual truth of Ethereum. Like Blockfolio doesn't know what Ethereum had the data on Ethereum. Zapper does. And so I go and I put in my multiple wallets into Zapper and it gives me a nice little report as to like where all my capital is, where all my assets are. And like, I don't know when the last time, no one really has cash anymore, but like I put on a pair of pants the other day and I found $20. And like when I put in my wallet into Zapper, I was like, oh, I still have that like liquidity in you. You found money? I found, I found like half in your digital pockets?

In my digital pockets. Yeah, because Zapper told me because it knows where my money is better than I do. So you can go to zapper.com and you can input your Ethereum wallets and it will tell you a nice report as to like where all your money is. And then also it has a cool little tax tool. And the automated tax tools are getting really, really good, which, again, as a terrible bookkeeper, is really useful for me. So check them out. That person is the best.

All right. Also, I want to talk about crypto.com. So super excited to have crypto.com as a sponsor. They are one of the best ways, one of the first steps that you could do to bridge your fiat to crypto. We've talked about this so many times on bank lists where you have sort of your fiat money on one side and you have this crypto. world on the other first thing you need to do is bridge it across. Crypto.com has one of the most

cost-efficient ways to purchase crypto out there. You can buy it with the credit card and they waive the 3.5% fee for all crypto purchases. They also, and this is really cool, I've been using it for a while. They also have a visa card. So it's a crypto-enabled visa card in the U.S. It's actually hard to get a good crypto visa card, particularly if you want to spend cool defy assets like eth and dye. I don't spend my eth, but I do spend my die. So if you want to spend die on a credit card, buy your Starbucks coffee with it. Crypto.com in the U.S. is a great way to do that. And they will give you 10% off things like food and groceries, gift cards, 20% back. It actually works. So I have a crypto.com card right now

in my pocket. And I use it from time to time to spend my die in the real. world. You can download the crypto.com app and get some of the offers that I mentioned, including the 10% off things like food and groceries until the end of December. Bankless listeners will get $50 in their CRO token, which is like their loyalty token. If you sign up with the code bankless, we'll include a link in the show notes. Awesome sponsors. This is going to be a fantastic episode. David, let's bring in our special guest.

Bankless Nation, want to welcome Mariano Conti to the Bankless Day of the Nation. He's been on the podcast before. Mariano, how are you doing, sir? Hey, how's it going? Thank you for having me. And thank you for doing this at an earlier time to accommodate. Absolutely, Mariano. You know, I'm East Coast, so it's like this is the perfect time for me.

But David did wake up early. So, you know, cheers, David. We'll see the sunrise. behind him as we watch. I'm just going to get brighter and brighter as time goes on. Well, we all get brighter when Mariano's around. Mariano. All right.

So let's talk about, you know, I almost introduced you as the maker guy. I wanted to almost introduce you as the head of oracles there for a second, but I refrained. So what is your official title now, sir? Are you ambassador for defy? Are you, you know, just a simple yield farmer? What do you? King Midas. now. King minus. Until yesterday, I was still employed by the Maker Foundation, but

starting today, it's either retired or a simple farmer or PDD. So yeah, anyone else will do. I think simple farmer is good because, you know, retired is definitely not something you can do these days when you are farming. It's like all of the time you've got to be checking on what's going on in the farming space and keeping up with these protocols. Dave and I really wanted to talk about and share with the Bankless Nation a bit about the Y Earn Protocol, the Y-Earn Protocol. So we had Andre on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. Folks can check out that episode and get kind of a download and intro to what Y-Earn is. And it's basically sort of like a robo yield optimizing protocol, right?

That's the quick one-sentence version of what it is. But keeping up with everything that WIREN is doing is almost like a full-time job. David and I have joked about like we could just fork the bankless, like media podcast, everything we do and just have a WIRE and bankless version and have enough content to do a weekly podcast and to do a daily newsletter, maybe like multiple times a day. So what we thought we would do is maybe just do a quick, I guess, brush up on things that are going on in WIRE and just in the past like week or two. Maybe since we talked to Andre and talk about five things. So talk about Avey and WIRE and talk about insurance.

Talk a little bit about staking and Wi-Fi governance. Talk about funding and the doubt. And then finally, talk about something that I know is close to your heart, which is the WIRE and Eiff vault that is. is coming about soon. So does that sound good, Mariano? Yeah, that sounds perfect. I think the first topic is actually the topic of the multi-sig signers. Mario, can you start with the multi-signers? Yes. So, and let me stress that that is right now the only thing that I am for the W iron protocol. There is a multi-sig. It is six out of nine, I believe, that

controls the treasury of the wyom pro and i proposed myself when they were looking for uh new members just because i'm online pretty much most of the time and uh they voted me in um because i i voted community for a while i voted for you and how did you guys vote did you vote with uh why ifi tokens absolutely the one and only yes very good you voted for you yourself. Of course you did. I voted for myself and for a few others. Nice. Nice. This was, encouraged. I was told that I should vote for myself. And so yeah, for the past few days, I've been a member of the multi-sig, but really probably out of the nine people in the multi-sig, I am the one who's done the least amount of work. Like literally all I've done is sign a few

transactions, look at a little bit of code, but that is pretty much all my engagement so far. So why did that interest you in the first place? Everyone else has been just as a fan. Well, because WIern, Wifu's, the Wi-Fi token, Andre, that is probably the most interesting things that have happened to DFI since DFI started. And it revitalized my love for this space. And I felt like I needed to be close to it one way or another. And being a multi-six signer and just following a telegram and having to click confirm on my ledger every once in a while, felt like the least amount of work for the best benefit of being closest to that.

So, Mariano, why? Why is WIRE so unique? Why did it kind of reignite your excitement about defy all over again? There are so many things. First off, the protocol itself generates money for users since day won. That is one of the main reasons. It's useful since day one. easy to use.

The Wi-Fi token has an immaculate conception story not seen since the days of Bitcoin. You know, a Chad founder, I test in prod, Android figure, which

let me say, that is not the case anymore. So, yeah, he does test in production. He just deploys and gives us main net addresses to review. But there are so many people looking at the code now

that it has become mostly a myth that he tests in prod. It's like there's a lot of people looking at what he writes. Yeah. And yeah, just the fact that this story took everybody by surprise. Of course, the price of the Wi-Fi token, let's not forget that. It's been incredible. It has changed so many people's lives in a month, a month and a half.

So yeah. Can we talk about the price? Among the things. Can we talk about the price real quick? Just because that's kind of fun. David, do you remember when we had Daryl on the podcast? Yeah.

Do you remember? Yeah, that was a month ago? All right, a month ago. It was roughly $3,000, give a take. We're at the $3,000 mark then. And I remember a comment. with Darrell, who's another multi-sig holder, I believe, right? That, wow, isn't this amazing?

Like, we went from $3 to $3,000, a 1,000% gain. Isn't that incredible? That was already the story of the time. That was already the story. Yeah, okay. So a month ago, and now here we are, Mariano, your comment about price. We hit close to 40K, right? Or did we hit 40K?

Didn't quite hit it. In a month, in another month, We went from 3,000 to over, you know, over 30K, right? So like, when is this thing stopping? What's the market cap right now? So the market cap is 708. Oh, no, that's the trading volume. Sorry, trading volume.

So the market cap is over a billion. So it's a unicorn now? Like, was it the case that this thing was just undervalued? Or are we getting into a full hype cycle now? Does anyone know? I still think that it is seriously undervalued. Wow. This is a token that gives money to his holders.

We're probably going to talk about it. But if you lock up your Wi-Fi token, you start earning money instantly. So one of the big themes that we came out of with Van Spencer in the most recent podcast was that community is almost everything, right? Like you start every single protocol lives on top of its community. And that's why I think the Y-Earn protocol is so strong. In addition to what it actually is on a technical level, the immaculate conception was the biggest community birthing story ever. And Mariana, you said, like, you've been into crypto before Ethereum was a thing.

And so, like, you and Maker Dow, you know, arguably kicked off what we know as defy. Right. So no one has a better perspective as to like what defy and community is all about. And so when you tell me that like you're rekindled your love for defy and and I see like this this massive just community involvement and community governors of the protocol stewards of the protocol that's what gets really I mean it gets me really excited we've never really had a community rally around this protocol ever before ever yeah you're totally right and that they're probably

many reasons for that. You know, you have the, you have the meme of 30,000 supply. You have blue curbies all around, you know, pumping, doing memes, but also explaining, like out of the blue starting to explain how everything works. Friendly community mixed, you know, with a bull market. I know that there are probably many things that went right by accident, but many more were products of, you know, hard work by the people involved. Yeah, and that's another really fascinating subject is because Andre spun this thing out all by himself. But then if you go to the yearn governance forums, you see so many proposals with so many strategies that there's no way that one single man could ever do this anymore. So like, we are now

well beyond Andre. And the amount of just shipping of code coming out of this community is absolutely insane. And that's kind of like, again, part of the fundamentals of this whole entire project. So I think that kind of turns us to the Y-Eath faults because as somebody who is straddling the world of maker and the world of Y'Rne, I feel like no one is better suited to be able to comment about the Y-Eath fault. So, so Mariano, could you just kind of explain to us what the Y-Eth-Eth-Faults? ETH Faults will do. Do you want me to start with that one or should we save that one for last? Do you have another one in mind? Well, we could talk about some. We could, yeah, let's just talk about, let's talk about the Y-Eath first. That sounds cool. Okay, let's do it. So it is live

today. It is live right now. There is no UI. Let me tell you what it is. The most popular vault right now for the Y-R-R-R-R-R-R-V protocol is one where you deposit Y-CURV-Y CRV tokens and they earn you a very high percent in APII. I believe it's around 100% a year. What is this? What is this token? So, Curb Finance has a has a token that represents a liquidity pool of four different stable coins. These are dye, USDC, USDT, and through USD. And you can deposit any of these four. And you get an LP token, a liquidity provider token called a YCRB or YKirp.

And then anybody who transacts in that pool between those stable coins, you earn a fee. So that is the YRB or Y Kirk token. The most popular YValt, it's what was called the YCRB or YUSDC. What did you do? You put in that LP token in, you deposit that, and it would try to find you the best yield. And this is also where yield farming comes from. You were already earning yield just from this LP token.

this vault will find a way to earn you even more on top. It used to be, it was farming YFII, which is the first clone of the Wi-Fi token. Then for the past couple of weeks, it's been farming CRV token from the curb Dow token. And it's all very interesting, but it's all using stable coins. right? To go in, you need to have one of the four. This new vault, the Yeth vault, I call it the the triforce of DFI. What it does is it takes ether. I think we all agree in this group. Ether is the perfect lateral in decentralized finance. It's the native token of Ethereum. it is the one that everybody has or needs to have to transact.

And yeah, it is the highest quality collateral. So what happens here is people with ether are going to be able to deposit into wire and vault. And behind the scenes, what happens is this. The vault grabs your ether. It locks it up in the MakerDile protocol. It generates dye. it puts that dye into a curve, into this Y curb token, and then it farms yield using the strategy

that fits best or the one that is the highest performing. So you're earning in the end a lot of money on top of your ether without losing exposure to your ether. And this is, I call it the Trifor's because it is good for Ether, because it's going to drive the price up. It's going to get it locked up into Defi a lot more. It's going to be good for Maker Protocol because it's going to drive the price, the peg down for die. So it's going to get it back to one. It's going to generate millions, if not tens, or hundreds of millions of new die.

Therefore, the stability fee can be raised. and MKR can be burned and the maker protocol can generate money. And of course, it's going to be good for the Wi-Fi token because it is the money robot that is executing this whole strategy. So that's why I say it's ETH NKR Wi-Fi, and that is the collateral, the protocol, the money robot. It's probably the best three-way symbiosis I've never seen in DFI.

Absolutely. And so Dye has actually had like a pretty hard time getting that peg, right? And for the last like six months, it's been pennies over a dollar, which is a meaningful amount. Oh, you're drinking Mote. I'm so jealous. So, and part of that is just because like there's been so much demand for crypto dollars inside of DFI, right?

And so what you're saying is that because now Ether is now involved. in the urine protocol via the Y-Eath faults, which comes from Maker, there's now like a super-strong vehicle for leveraging your ether collateral inside of Defi using Maker as a bridge into yearn, right? And so you're expecting that people that are interested in receiving ether-denominated returns will submit their ether to the yearn, which will then send it to Maker-Dow. And then MakerDAO will draw dye. And so then you owe a debt. And then that die submitted to yearn.

And then the urine goes in farms in order to pay back that debt. And so as a mental model, this is like getting a mortgage to purchase a house. And then you're putting a renter in that house and you're using that rent money to pay off the mortgage. Right. And so you add some time in here and then you have a whole entire house. Right. So that's kind of like the mental model here. I'm stoked.

And I'm really excited to see what happens here because, like, The Triforce model, I think, is very, very elegant. And this is also something that we were talking about in the Van Spencer episode, where we can talk about composable communities, where this is integrating, like, the ether bagholders, ether stakeholders who love ether, is integrating the Maker Dow community, and is integrating the YARN community all in one

to generate this really powerful primitive that I think will carry us off into the future. Yes, I agree. And there's a lot of things that I didn't mention, I'll just say quickly one, which is, of course, since it is using maker vaults behind the scenes and it is locking up ether. Of course, ether is a volatile asset. It can go up and price, it could go down. And depending on the amount of high debt that the vault has, it could be susceptible to liquidation. It needs to maintain 150% collateralization.

In the case of this vault, it always tries to maintain 200%. percent collateralization just to be safe above. And the other thing that it can do, it is natively integrated with Maker Oracles, so it can read from the Oracle security module, so it can know the future. It can always know what the price of Ether is going to be for the Maker Protocol the following hour. And if it knows that it needs to rebalance, people are incentivized to call the rebalance function on the white fault and earn a commission for doing that.

So it is that I call it unliquidatable. Of course, that is not the case. It could happen, but people are incentivized not to let it happen. So it acts as, you know, you talked about keepers who essentially serve as a liquidating force. It acts as like a super keeper, right, and pulls all this capital together and is and is smarter maybe than the typical keeper. It also saves on gas fees, right? So if I'm trying to do that sort of strategy

and I'm doing it solo on my own without WIREN, I'm going to be paying a lot in gas, whereas with WIREN, it's just kind of aggregating all of the transactions and the capital in this one kind of gas fee. Also, gas is at an all-time high today. Oh, God, what is it? Is it 300?

Is it 300? Jeez, man. Yeah. So like even Wifi as a like a gas, savings mechanism is incredibly powerful. Just that alone. Let's talk about some of the effects that you were that you were mentioning. So I want to share Mariano's tweet here because, you know, you made reference to it, Mariana, but this to me was like tweet of the month, my friend. So this is Ethemaker, Wi-Fi, the collateral, the protocol, and the money robot. That's the trifecta

that we were talking about. And Anthony put together this fantastic meme, I think, of like what it might look like visually when WIREN starts to, you know, deploy that vault and implement the strategy where it essentially becomes another ETH eater. I also saw you tweet this, Mariana, recently, that I think, you know, reflects your point. So this is D5Pulse. And again, you got to watch this on YouTube guys to get all these fantastic visuals. So, but let's sort by ETH, right? So look at how much ETH is getting locked up. Economic bandwidth, as we're fond of saying, a massive amount. amount just in the last month, we've locked another 2% or so of ETH inside of DFI protocols. And this is a really fascinating screen. So when I clicked Eith, I'm now sorting by the ETH eaters,

the biggest like Eith eaters on the DFI pulse board. And you see Maker, as you were saying, Margon, is a massive ETH eater. It is locking up 2.6 million ETH. It's just very hungry for ETH. So is Uniswap. Now what we're going to see is wire. start to rise up those charts. So why are in? Or will it be under Maker? I guess it will be under Maker. You tell me, Mariana.

So Yaron right now is locking up a lot. Where is it? I don't like you find it here. Yeah. Oh, okay, because I'm sorting it. There it is. Number six, it's locking up close to 800 million,

but not very much ETH. What will be the case when it starts to deploy its vault? We need to ask Scott Lewis, but I think that the ETH should be under Maker because that is Wow, yeah, right. Studium for the for the collateral is going to be the Maker protocol. So what's going to happen is Maker is going to start locking up a whole bunch more ETH.

Right. And then die, there's going to be a whole bunch more dye minted right now. How much dye is there? The dye is going into the. urine protocol, the ether is going into the maker protocol. Is that right? Yes, I don't, if you go back to, to TVLUSD and hover over the wiring protocol, yeah, can you see under where it says 7777, it should say it had a pop-up that said I just clicked into the details.

Calculating it. Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't know if that is attributed to WIREN. Yeah, there it is. So WIRM Finals is built on top of Curb. Its TBL is credited to YM Finance and KERP, but not double count for aggregate stats. Okay.

I believe in this case, yes, Dye will be. be counted on Yarm Finance and ETH on the Maker Protocol. And right now there's like 150 million dye minted. Probably 350 of those are backed by ether. So the bulk of it. And yes, the Maker Protocol has historically been the number one holder of die in DFI. We've now seen, thanks to sushi swap, a big increase in ether locked in uniswap. But even then, it's still no match for the amount of eith locked in Maker.

And that's exactly why you're bullish on those three assets, right? You're bullish on Maker because total locked value increases its potential to extract maker burn fees. You're bullish on YFI because it's just eating all of these assets that's and charging fees for every, you know, additional asset that that's locked up inside of it. And you're bullish ETH because it's being used as mega super collateral economic bandwidth, as we would say. And a whole bunch is about to be locked up inside of DFI, even more. It's at 6% now.

So maybe we get to 7, 8, 9%, 10%. And this is all pre-staking, by the way. We haven't even talked about how much staking is going to lock up. That could be another 5%. Yeah, that's the bulk case, guys, right? I mean, for those three assets, it's not any, it's not complicated. You can see it playing out if you're paying attention to Defi right now. Mariano, maybe just to quickly go back.

So we've been talking about this Y-Eath Vault and how big that is. But maybe just to finish that conversation off and then we'll take a step back. When is the Y-Eth Vault coming? So I saw a contract deployed yesterday, I think, but I haven't seen user interface or any sort of detailed instructions. Is it close? It is very close. I believe that there's already a version on MayNet that people are testing. It may or may not have around 10 or 15 either when we started our call. I have not seen how much it has now. That slight smile on your face, Mariano, tells me everything I need to know.

A UI is coming maybe tomorrow. No promises there. Like I said, I am not involved, say, for being on a telegram and posting funny memes and commenting. Signing transactions every now and again. But it is so really very close to being released into the world. Fantastic. That is awesome.

We are very excited about that. All right. So maybe now let's just take a quick step back and talk about some other things going on in Y, Earn. Because this is, yeah, go ahead. Before we start, can I say the last thing about the YVolt? It was mainly not written by Android. It was contributed by a third party. I don't know if I should mention who, but maybe they will come forward later.

but it was a strategy that was written by somebody else. And the best thing, and also one such a cool thing about the WIRE protocol is the person who wrote this strategy, every time somebody uses or interacts or makes money from the WIARN, from the Waiat fault, they will get 5% for being the writer of the strategy. Wow. And that is, to me, it is like incredible. So it also incentivizes people to write code for the protocol and earn.

It's, I've never seen a better alignment of incentives, truly. So I put out this graphic yesterday, which I had my, my ultraviolet.eith Twitter friend produced for me. And it's of this like Cthulhu space like octopus thing. And it has all of the different protocols like in its grasp. and the brain is wire in itself. And that's because this thing is a like extra dimensional virus that is just latching on to like every single protocol because of the incentives that every single and protocol has.

Like every single protocol has reason to be stitched into the Y-Earned system, right? And not only are the natural incentives there, but like the individual incentives for some individual to take it upon themselves to make that bridge to. build that bridge are also there because they can also pay themselves, you know, a little bit of money. Five percent, though. Five percent is kind of, kind of a lot. Like, or is maybe my, my mental model of like how, like what that, what that actually means is, is, is, is, is wrong. Oh, yeah, there it is. But like, five percent of what, Mariano? Like, can you kind of go into details as to, um, how that'll work? Uh, yeah, I, I need to double check the code and, and maybe,

maybe I'm messing up the number, but if I'm not mistaken, it is 5% of the profit. Okay. So it can be quite a big amount. So, yeah, so 95% of what the urine protocol earns for the Y-Ether depositors goes to ether depositors, and 5% of what is made goes to the writer. And I'm assuming at some point in time, like governance, like maybe this doesn't go on for like, you know, forever, but like this guy, whoever, whoever wrote this, like gets it for the next, like, six months, 12 months, like, whatever.

Some, some initial, like, bump of funds. Or, I mean, somebody else writes a strategy with a, with a lower fee or something, right? Yeah. Or a better strategy. A better strategy. Yeah, something like that. But the genius thing about this is that it's incenting itself to, like, this is, like, this is, you know, the Dow vision of 2016. where all of the Ethereum community was going to come together and create like this venture firm essentially to contribute funds into and go fund itself and go fund Ethereum, go fund cool projects and make profit on it.

That's what YFI and YERN is becoming, right? Only it's like using the substrate of all of the like all of the different lending and borrowing protocols and all of the money protocols and EFI protocols that are getting built on top. One thing about this little graphic is I just love how. smiley that little ghost is he's just so stoked to be like part of part of the urine octopus that's the ave ghost all right so um avie david i think uh you mentioned me that uh you're messing around with this but but part of wi-fi's growth this week may have been as a result of avi so avi um avey added it the ove ghost added it to its interface right so i can see if i could see it here so that just happened i think last week so what happens if you departs if you deposit Wi-Fi into Ave?

Yes. Well, there is not that much that happens. You can borrow again. There is, if you deposit Wi-Fi and AVE, I think the API for depositing is zero. Yeah, it is zero right now, so you're not earning anything for borrowing it, but sorry for social,

supplying it, but you can borrow against it. And you don't have to sell it. You don't have to sell it. You can borrow against it. You don't have to sell it. Yes. I am, I'm not going to say what I'm borrowing, but I'm borrowing against my, my Wi-Fi to farm sushi.

Which goes back to the episode with Vance, where we talk about the farming premium that all these tokens have. because like yearn, synthetics, they all produce a capital asset, but they're all collateral or more potential like capital or valuable assets that you can leverage inside of farms. And so like the value of YFI token

is now a function of how much return you can get outside of the YFI token just farming, which is just insane. This is why you guys have to go listen to the episode. And also, yeah, and on sushi, I could farm directly with Wi-Fi E, ETH LP pair, but that is the only asset that I don't like getting any impermanent loss. It's like even though with the APY's on sushi, I'm probably making money.

It's like a 2,000 percent. Even then it's like, no, no, no, automatic market makers get your hands off of my wife's eat. So I don't farm with it. This is the sushi user interface, Mariana, that you're talking about, right? So this is a user interface where you could deposit Wi-Fi, in addition to some other defy tokens and ETH, of course. And these aren't just straight tokens. These are actually, you first have to deposit them as liquidity into uniswap,

and then you can deposit them here. And sushi is trying to be sort of like people call it a vampire protocol, but it's trying to suck liquidity out of uniswap and be the next uniswap. That's the attempt that just fired up over the past four days. So that's what you're talking about with sushi, right? Yes. Guys, it's a ton to keep up with here. Like even going back to wire in itself.

So we touched on Avey. Like we could talk about what another thing they added last week was delegated funding Dow vaults, right? So this again is the, like they were inspired by Fairlaunch Capital. which is providing no strings attached seed funding for getting audits done prior to the release of like a tokener protocol like a Yam for instance and uh wifie said good idea governance like we'll do that too and so now you can actually get capital uh from yfi as if it was a Dow right to build something really cool so that was just added you can also the entire time you've been able to add um you've been

able to vote on these things through governance, right? And this is another, the genius about Wi-Fi is they seem to incent everybody to do things. Like, they incent the behavior that they want. So one of the things they want is an engaged government's community to vote Wi-Fi holders to vote on things. So what do they do? They reward you for voting. So if you deposit, if you stake your Wi-Fi, then you can now vote on things on-chain. And through voting, you get some sort of a return. I don't know if you guys have you guys voted on i i got paid 12 dollars for voting for mariano to become a multi-six so it wasn't just out of the goodness of your heart you're getting paid yeah no yeah i i i owe mariano some lunch well okay so how does that work um i've not done it yet so are you get like

while you're staking do you get some sort of yeah for so you stake it in the governance contract uh and then and then you go and make a vote which is just signing a message and the thing is like gas prices are kind of expensive. So like voting for Mariano cost me like $4. And so like it's good that the wire and protocol is paying its voters because without it, there might be like selfishness. And people like, well, I'll let other people vote because I don't want to pay for the gas fees. Well, the people that do vote get compensated and the people that vote more get profited. Right. So like so long as you are continuously voting, you will continuously receiving compensation for both your attention and your energy and your gas.

Yeah, exactly. So you stake the Wi-Fi token and then you're earning on top of, so the protocol earns a lot of money. People who use the protocol earn a lot of money and some of that goes to the protocol. And I think this is by

it's either by consensus or it's actually in the smart contracts. Anything above $500,000 that's in the treasury goes to people staking in governance. So, and that treasury got filled in three days probably. The 500,000 got filled in three days. And any extras spills over to the people who are staking.

But you can only, you can get the rewards, but you can only withdraw them if you vote. So if you don't vote, you still see the number go up, but you can only grab them if you vote and then you have to lock up your Wi-Fi for three days. Again, back to incentives. Genius. So is this the only, so the prospect or the bulk case for WIERN is that it has that treasury that you mentioned, and then it pays out that treasury to the Wi-Fi holders.

It sounds like what you just said is that it does do that, but only if you vote. So if you just buy and a hold Wi-Fi, are you leaving money on the table? Like, are you, is there no prospect of you receiving any of those dividends? I believe that at this point, yes, you're not receiving any of those dividends. But I may, this is probably stretching my knowledge of the protocol. And I may already have said a couple of things that I'm incorrect. I don't think anyone actually, maybe except for Andre himself, I don't think anyone can really tell you the complete all-encompassing state of the wiring protocol, which is also something to be crazy.

There is so much. One other thing so that we could talk about, I don't know if, you know, how familiar you are, but I saw the Y insurance piece of things come through. So this is Wi-Fi again deploying something that looks to be kind of revolutionary. So this appears to be some sort of smart contract, DFI protocol insurance. that maybe stacks on top of Nexus Mutual in some way. I'm actually, I haven't done much due diligence here. I just haven't had time.

Mariano, what do you know about it? I know very little as well. I know that it launched recently. I know that it didn't get the reception that it should have. I haven't seen a lot written about it, but I know that it's still revolutionary. It's a couple of clicks and you have insurance either, I think, in ether or in dye, over, I would say, your deposits in different protocols. You have, like, most of the big ones, have a balancer compound curve, synthetics, and even wire in some protocol.

and the back end is Nexus Mutual. That's fantastic. So it looks like through the Y Insurance interface, the Wienerun interface, I could get some cover available. And there's almost 100 and, oh, 10,000, 10,000 worth of EF in cover available. And I could say I want to cover, get insurance.

That means for the amount that I've staked inside of balance, as a liquidity provider for between 30 and 365 days. It looks like I can just generate a quote and get that covered here. Just crazy. The pace that Wiron is developing, I think it's very clear that it is only, it is not just one person anymore. It's the entire, it's an Ethereum Dow, basically.

It is the entire. It is the version of the Dow that we originally thought of when we thought of the Dow in 2016. except now there's just more of everything more other protocols more tools more developers more community members more capital there's just more of everything it's fantastic um all right so mariano i know we're we're up on time and you've got to run we've got a couple other things to cover on state of the nation for you guys um if if you are looking to get started with wire and we will include a tactic that we wrote up on bankless um i believe we published that last week to get started

with some of these vaults. You can see to get started with a vault, these are the strategies that we're talking about. You can just kind of go here, scroll through it. You can see the various APRs that you can earn through each of these vaults. And it seems like we expect to see a Y-Eath vault here on this page sometime, maybe this week, which would be quite exciting. So there's ways to get started with WIRE. Of course, this is incredibly risky. I test in prod. Remember that. all of Defi is tested in broad. So be careful about what you deposit. You could lose it if there's a smart contract hack, if there's some unforeseen event.

But for those of you guys, you know, willing to live on the edge a little bit and risk it, this is a very compelling way to do automated yield farming, all of the money robot sorts of things you could do. And Mariano, we so much appreciate you coming on. Thank you specifically for sharing about your, your, you're trying to. trifecta asset thesis. I think that's going to be a, yeah, I think that's one to you to watch, certainly. And it might become a post on bankless in the future.

Yes, I think it should. So thanks for joining us. Now, to you both, thank you so much for an invitation, especially to David, congratulations on going bankless full time. I think we mentioned that we didn't have time to touch up on this, but yeah, there's a lot of people going DFI full-time. A lot of churn. Yes. And it also coincided with, you know, the meteoric rise of Wi-Fi.

So I think it's going to empower a generation of builders. I hope so, too. I hope so, too. And Mariano, same. Congratulations to you. You saw Maker Dow from the very beginning to its maturity. So like, you know, tip of the hat for being such a pioneer in the space. You were bankless before any of us here.

So congrats on that. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, I want to say that even though I'm not in the foundation anymore, I'm still very much involved with the protocol. You're part of the doubt. I think that I can, yeah, I can help MakerDAO. a lot more now from outside than from within.

Very cool. I'm going to become its biggest shiller. Very good. Thank you for having me. Cheers. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Bye.

Bye, Mariana. Bye. David, that was just fantastic. I hope that was a deep dive on Wiron for some folks who are trying to get caught up on everything that's going on. Before we get to a few other topics, I'm super excited to talk about, we should talk about our sponsors again, David. Do you want to start with Ampleforth, my friend?

Ampleforth. I keep calling them the king of modern rebasing. So a bunch of protocols have integrated this rebasing mechanism lately, and Ampleforth was the whole entire concept of, invented the whole entire concept of rebasing. So Ampleforth, it's a pretty simple protocol with a lot of significant implications. It's very much like Bitcoin in the sense that it is a non-difference, dilutive asset. So there is a fixed, fixed, it's not even a fixed supply. There is a fixed value of

Ampleforth, but the price of the token, unlike Bitcoin, stays the same over time, but the supply of Amplforth fluctuates wildly, just like Bitcoin price fluctuates wildly. So while the price of Amplforth is pegged to $2019, that doesn't mean it's a stable coin, because if you buy an Amplforth token, you will see the value of how many Amplforth. tokens you have in your wallet fluctuate up and down, right? And so if, and what a rebase mechanism is, is every 24 hours, Ampleforth will mint or burn tokens from your wallet in order to make sure that the token tracks $2019. So it's like Bitcoin, but like inverse, right? So it's pretty crazy. They have this liquidity mining incentive program where if you add ether and Ampleforth tokens

to the Uniswap pool, you'll get an extra little bonus of Amples. So very much in line with is the yield farming narrative that we have seen. And so you can check them out at ampleforth.org. There's a lot to unpack with Ampleforth. There's a lot more to what meets the eye. So you can check them out at Ampleforth.org. All right. Also want to tell you a little bit about our sponsor Monolith.

So Monolith is an incredibly exciting, I think, a set of tools. This is primarily for our European listeners because it is mainly available in Europe. they are looking to expand it, and I do hope they come to the U.S. very soon. Monolith is a crypto visa card, but it is a bankless crypto visa card. So they never take custody of your funds. This is one of the revolutions that can only happen on Ethereum. It essentially wraps your entire Ethereum address inside of a visa card. So you can deposit things into it like Die, for instance, or even they recently added the Ave version of U.S.D.

So a die or a USD. So it acts as a savings account basically. Anyway, that's all in a smart contract. But the output is you get this monolith visa card where you could spend all of that crypto in the real world. You could go to Amazon. You could type in your visa card number and you could buy something.

That is really the most bankless way to use crypto that I know of today. It's sort of the vision and the dream that we've been talking about in crypto since 2011, 2012, well, using this stuff in the real world, it's starting to happen. It is a one-to-one replacement for an HSBC or a Revolut if you're in Europe. And what you need to do is get started with it at monolith.xy-Z and get your bankless visa card

highly recommended on your journey to go in bankless. All right, David, we talked to iron. Big topic. We've got a few other things. That was a big topic. And this episode's going a little bit long. do you want to maybe just finish off that? Because I know you wanted to talk about this.

And my bad, dude, we should have announced this at the very beginning. So David is joining bankless full-time media. I've been doing this close to full-time for a while. But David is joining me and going full-time. David, it's going to be awesome, man. I'm super psyched about that. That should have been in the announcements. But hopefully folks that are with us are not catching that.

Yeah. So no, this is part of the state of the nation, right? So, like, I am not the only person to leave their previous career. year to go off onto a new venture, right? And so through the bear market, like, I've been working with Realty to get tokenized real estate up and running. Realty's about to release their balancer system, which produces the Realty asset, which puts Realty in the game, right? Like, Realty then has the token. And so, like, I feel good about where I brought Realty. And to be honest, like my skills as COO of Realty were great for that time period. But Realty, just like every other

Defi protocol is like getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so they need somebody who has stronger and stronger skills. And, you know, as we all know, I'm much more suited to be like a content producer and evangelizer, you know, a flag bearer of sorts. And so I'm really excited to be able to just like max out my like content production skills. And David promised that he would deliver even more content than he's doing today. So I have no idea how a human being is actually capable of doing that. But we're going to see. There's going to be a lot of content. coming, churning out of the bankless nation. So I'm really excited about that. But, but yeah, like, like I said, like I'm just one of like six, seven, eight people that have announced that they're,

they're leaving their job that got them through the last two years in order to do something that more aligns with what they want to do. Mariano just said, like, you know, he, he was working with the Maker Foundation for like the past four years. You know, you can just go on Twitter and like every time there's a new yield farm, like somebody quits their job. So, yeah, you know, what, it's just like, all right, so this is how, this is how sectors are built. This is how Silicon Valley was built, right? You know, why is Facebook, why are Instagram, why are these Web 2 companies based in Silicon Valley? Well, it started with like Intel back in the 1960s and 70s, right? So Intel built Silicon, Silicon Valley, Silicon chips, right? Turned that area into a computer

manufacturing zone, which birthed the next generation, which was Microsoft and Apple in the 1980s. which what, birth the next generation, which was like Hotmail, which got and then turned into YouTube and Facebook. The PayPal Mafia. This is what happens, right? It's like in physics, you know, supernova of a star, right? It's not just a one-time explosion. All of that material out of a supernova then goes and creates a second generation of stars.

And then a third generation is born. That's exactly what's happening, though I would argue at an accelerated pace in crypto and And Defi, right, is first wave maker is successful, right? Maker's successful. Now it's in a place where Mariano's like, look, I can contribute to the Dow, but I can leave it in good hands. Now I'm going to my next way. Is he leaving crypto?

Hell no. He's not. No one is leaving crypto. No one's leaving crypto. He's taking his money and he is reinvesting in the space. He's taking his talent and his skills. And he is reinvesting those in the space. that's how this place becomes like the capital Silicon Valley, the programmable money Silicon Valley.

And it's all in the Ethereum economy, which is super exciting to me. Yeah. So Mariano, he's pretty public about his most recent seed investment in Zapper, our bankless sponsor. And so he's not the only one. Wait, so he paid for this episode? Yeah. So he directly. Yeah, that's why we got him on. Thanks, Mariano. Well, your check's in the mail, Mariano. And so, and like he's not the only one. Like I said, like six, seven, eight people have quit their jobs. Like I've seen like a bunch of the people I know contribute seed investments. And the thing is like seed investments are for products that are going to come out.

Like Zapper is already a live product. So you can go check them out. But like for the other seed investments that I've seen that, you know, may not be like so well known in this space. Like these products are going to become live in like six months to three years. Like very, very long window, right? But like this bull market, the last bull market lasted two years. But there's also this idea of, you know, the lengthening cycles theory. Like every time Bitcoin has gone through a bull market and a bear market, each one has lasted

longer. And that just kind of just makes sense. As things just get older, they just like take it. They move slower. And so I think this bull market is going to be long and drawn out because like as the energy of yield farming and liquidity mining and fair launches, like that, I don't know how long that can sustain us. It probably can't sustain us for three years.

It'll probably sustain us for a year. or something. And then maybe there's like this NFT revolution. That's really hot. We're definitely hot on that. But the thing is, like people are shifting and positioning, that's why the state of the nation right now is positioning themselves in order to like build something that will like also sustain ourselves into the future. And so I think that this is the golden age of Ethereum, the golden age of defy because as one thing dies off and its energy kind of dissipates, like you said, it will reform itself into new energy and sustain ourselves. I think that this is going to be a bull market for the ages.

Well, if you think about a little bit like the internet after the collapse, right? So like dot com collapse, 2000, 2001, Amazon, by the way, lost 96% of its value, its peak market cap value. It's interesting, Ethereum lost 95% of its peak market cap value. But then if you started getting into the internet when everyone thought, everything was dead in 2001, 2002. It wasn't just another cycle, right? That's been a good investment for the past 20 years to have internet skills, right? And look at Amazon. I mean, it hit its market cap in 2008 and then blew right past it. Now is it the most valuable company in the world

competing with maybe Apple to be that? Like the last 20 years were owned by the internet. It wasn't just a boom, bus cycle, boom, bus cycle. That's why I, I think it is important to be in the nation now in these early phases because not only the capital, right, but also the skills that you're developing now are going to pay dividends and also the network, the community, right? Like, you know, who you know at this point in time, they're going to move on to do great things because they're simply front running everyone. They're simply early. So it's a great time to be early. It's a great time to go bankless. Yeah, I couldn't be more excited. And I do think that, you know, it could be a multi-year bull run.

Absolutely. David, go ahead. One last note on that. One of my favorite lines from Eric Forheed is that, like, Bitcoin doesn't go through bull markets, well, bull markets and then bear bear markets. It's just, it's been in this, like, decade-long bull market, right? And we knew about this in Ethereum, too, where, like, the 2017 bull market and then the 2018-19 bear market, I don't know about you, but like in 2018 and 2019, so much more

was built in those two years than all previous years combined. So, like, prices aside, the bull market is in the development, right? And now the bull market is also in the development. Like, just talking, we just spent, like, an hour talking about just one protocol and all of its one protocol. And one week.

And one week. And so, like, that developmental bull market continues, and now also the prices are following, right? And so, again, bull market for the ages. Yeah, yeah, super excited. Dave and I are bullish. if you couldn't tell. Just a smitch.

A little bit. But here's why. Look, let's talk about our next thing real quick. And then I want to get to EF. This is Uniswap protocol. Okay. So we've been talking about Uniswap for a while, been waiting for this moment for a while.

It finally happened over the past 24 hour period of time. Uniswap, the decentralized exchange, the little money robot that was founded with less than $100,000. And Hayden Adams, another Adams, present is his first, his first not crypto project, his first coding project, like ever. He learned to code. He learned to code. And this happened, what, November 2018. You talk about things getting built in that time period. Well, its volume now surpassed Coinbase. Uniswap's volume surpassed Coinbase. And it's $426 million. It's first bowl market. It's first try. It's first try.

Right? Like, okay, so I put out a tweet like a while ago that basically said, I think Uniswap will be the largest market in the world. Like we're talking like tens of trillions of dollars potentially in volumes in the next 10 years, right? This is how it happens exponentially, right? Like it just- I bet people thought you were crazy when you said that. They did. You know, another Shillfest hype tweet from Ryan, you know, like that's what we've come to expect. drop of Ethereum. I'm just saying like it's happening guys it is freaking happening like critical sync thesis it's happening like uniswap being used by other you know

defy banks crypto banks it's happening all of this stuff is kind of playing out so that's crazy that's exciting I don't know David you want to say anything about that anything more about that or is that just that's kind of it it's just like Bitcoin maximalists or like hyper-bitconization is happening around us and like we are like the protocol sync thesis is happening around us. And by the way, and by the way, Bitcoin is part of the protocol sync thesis. Absolutely. It kind of fits. But the problem with maximalism is it's just like there's only one thing.

There's only one asset. They think that there's only one room for there's only room for one protocol in the protocol sync thesis, but there's a lot more. Yep. Yep. All right. All right. So, uh, so sushi is like cloning uniswap.

Yeah. Think about sushi. Have you been doing sushi? I, no, I haven't been able to follow this one. but so it's like yams the mining mechanism is like yams we talked about that right and it even looks like yams except you you have a sushi chef at the top rather than a you know a simple farmer composedable communities composable communities so they're composing together all of these communities they're trying to vampire suck liquidity out of uniswap it does seem to be a legit project um whether they're just juicing it for the

returns and then everything's going to collapse. Like it's over a billion in market cap. Which is already insane. It's not even a week old. And we haven't seen Uniswap V3 fighting back. Yeah. Which is going to be pretty exciting. I have a feeling that that's going to be something to watch.

But I don't know. What do you think? Do you think this is this good for defy or is this basically just hype machine? Like people farming this stuff are getting carried away. Right. with fleeting memes and uniswap is the one to watch. Yeah, so I think as time goes on, it's going to become much, much more of the latter and much less of the former, right? As time goes on, we should start to be more skeptical.

As time goes on, we should be more wary because, you know, there's just like in the ICO world, and I wrote a Market Monday piece in Bankless about this, where like initially the ICO was good. right Ethereum killed it with its ICO Auger killed it with its ICO the ICO for those things were really beneficial in doing what they were supposed to do which is spreading out the tokens to a large amount of people and that's exactly what these things are doing and so like Wi-Fi and Yearn good like nailed it nailed it out of the park yams so good nailed it nailed it out of the park sushi I think is also good like sushi I think is a very viable product

and is and the whole thesis about the market Monday post that I put out yesterday was every single protocol on Ethereum, there's incentives baked in to try and fork and fair launch it. And so, like, I think over the next, like, six months, we're going to see a bunch of fork and fair launches because the incentives are there. And I think that's also going to be good because, like, that every single protocol deserves to have its fair shot, right? And so, like, if we can fork and fair launch something, let's try it out. Like, that's by no means means that sushi is going to be the next unit swap. It doesn't, not mean that. Like, things are yet to be determined. And the thing is, it's up to the community,

because all things rest on community. All things in Ethereum and D5 rest on community. And so it's up to community to determine whether this thing is worth it or not. And a large part of the community's perception is to how fair the launch is, right? And how good the product is. And so ultimately, the free market will decide, and the free market will decide based on how dense it's a thing is in the protocol sink because the fairer and more equitable the launch is, the stronger the community it will generate and the deeper down in the protocol sink it will be. And so right now, I'm all for it. Like I've seen some shady clones of, you know, some of the Wi-Fi clones weren't, weren't so hot. But like right now, you know, we're on a pretty solid track record of

like good things. Wifi, yams, sushi swap. I think those are the big ones. Yeah, I agree. I'm experimentation, the market will figure it out in time, look, no one is forcing you to buy sushi, right? If you want to risk your capital, and keep in mind, guys, this is a risk. When you put stuff into a farm, you don't know about, has it been audited from a, like a team that, who knows, anything can happen, you could lose it all. But if you're willing to risk that capital, I mean, the way to do it is to farm it, right? You don't have to buy sushi's. You can just kind of farm it and see what happens, see if you like the community, see if the product is, any better. I'm definitely pro

experimentation too, but I'm also pro uniswap fighting back, to be honest. I hope they do. Chalk it up as an experimentation. Look, Dodo came out, which is, remember Haseeb talked about that. That came out this week. They're doing liquidity mining, right? So that's a different

curve. It's another automated market maker that you guys can take a look at. But when these liquidity robots fight, we as users, defy users, we as the Ethereum, economy, we benefit because they just get better and better. They level each other up. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm very excited. Let the wars begin. Fight, guys. And Robo fight. Nick Carter

talks about like this fight as like if in the crypto banks world, like the Bitcoin banks, because like the he thought that the era of free banking when gold was the standard was like the best for consumers. And, you know, I love Nick Carter, but like, yeah, for some reason he likes Bitcoin. But like this same free banking competition is happening. but it's in defy with the protocols. The protocols are the free banks. It's free banks. They are fighting and fighting tooth and nail for community acceptance.

They are like, please community accept us. And the way that they do that is by doing things right. There's no other way to do it. It's the freest market in the world right now. It's freest market in the world. Like Ethereum is just it's the freest market for experimentation in the world. And it's beautiful. Anyway, all right.

Last thing. Last topic. Let me share my screen. This is something on the price, price again of ether. So all this stuff is happening in the Ethereum economy. But something I've noticed, something we've been tracking for a while is this. So if you take a different lens for ETH, we've talked about this many times. I tweeted this out last week some time.

The price to earnings ratio. So what's the price to earnings ratio in stocks? It's how we assess capital assets like stocks. So if you're buying Netflix, $1, one share of Netflix, right for its market price right now you are essentially paying $88 for every $1 in profit that the Netflix share generates does that make sense that's what the PE ratio is so it's the price to earnings so you purchase it and then in 88 years you'll get the value that you put in back and then you'll also and then you'll also have the Netflix stock exactly and this is all hypothetically because

most of the time what these companies do is they don't pay out dividends. They retain their earnings and they reinvest it back in the business. And shareholders like that. They prefer that. They vote for that because ideally the executive team can generate a higher return than you can. It's better for taxes, all these things. So when you're buying one share of Netflix, you're paying $88 for profit. When you're buying one share of Amazon, you're paying $130 for $1.00 of profit. You make your money back in 130 years. Okay. If you buy Zoom today, you're paying $1,777 for $1 in the previous 12 months' profit. So what tends to happen is you can kind of see it here is the market is expecting Zoom to grow faster than Amazon to grow faster than Netflix in terms of its profit.

That's why the PE ratio is higher for these companies. Do the same thing for ETH. Like do it. And they've done that on token terminal, which you can do. The PE ratio for ETH, ether the average. asset is 38 right now. Okay? All right. So this is the next. Wait, wait, I thought crypto was ridiculous. I thought I thought crypto was the weird one. These stocks are like trading at very high flying like money printer-go-Burr, PE ratios now. They are. They just are. But the PE ratio for

ETH is, is $38. So that's 2% of Zoom. Right. So this is the next global money system that is growing at the rates we've been talking about for the past year. And it's, it's valued at 2% the price earnings of the video conferencing app. Good on Zoom. We're using them right now. I like Zoom. But it's not Ethereum. I could easily substitute to something else, man. We could go to WebEx or whatever. So it's a, I think Eath is stupidly underpriced, not financial advice, but it is. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. It's hilarious. It is hilarious. Okay. And then So this is at token terminal, and we can see this. So token terminal has done a great job of doing,

they call it not price earnings, price to sales. That's a bit more accurate. It's more like revenue, right? Same metric, though, right? Very similar, right? It's just earnings is like after all of your expenses. And some of these protocols have expenses, et cetera.

So if you were to look at ETH as a capital asset, one of the expenses might be running a validator potentially, right? So you'd have to take that out. But look at Eif. 39 here it was 37 another day 39 right if you sort by PE for all of the other D5 protocols or a sort by price to only bank or has a better PE yeah everything else is higher why is that so what is when we talk about price to sales the price is what you pay for ETH right the sales is a transaction revenue so that's all of the fees and by the way this is just transaction fees

not issuance all of the issuance fees earned by miners. Okay. So here it is if you charted out. This is revenue. This is what ETH is earning in transaction fees. Market cap is not following suit. Right.

Why? Maybe because it's hilarious. Is that an option to front run the opportunity? Ryan? Is that what that is? I don't know. Maybe tell me, right? It's like I'm just throwing the data out here.

Okay. So you have the price earnings. And then people are like, okay. But it's not, it's not apples to Apple. apples, right? Comparison with stocks. I agree. It's not apples to apples.

And then people say you can't compare it. Well, you can compare it because even if it's apples to oranges, both are fruits. And you can compare fruits, right? I'd also like to compare the stocks, which has money printer go bird behind it and ether and Bitcoin, which don't. So that's also something to take a note. Exactly. So back to you, eth is a triple point asset, right? So what is price earnings actually taking a look at?

only one pillar of the triple point asset thesis, only one pillar. So remember, triple point asset thesis is there are three pillars that make ether valuable, three things. One, it's used as a money, store value. Two, it's used as a commodity denominated money. So you use it to pay for gas. And then three, it becomes a productive capital asset in staking. This is just the third one. This is just productive capital asset in staking.

And it's got a PE of like 37 to 39 right now. So what happens in staking is when ETH2 comes around, that ETH that you hypothetically own becomes a capital asset that you can use to stake. And you get two things. One, if you're a validator, you get a share of transaction fees. And then you also get issuance. By the way, issuance is not included in this P.E. ratio. It's not included. Just transaction fees.

And then if you just hold ETH in ETH2.O, all of those transaction fees, you don't even have to validate. All of those transaction fees are at least a portion. of them that go to EIP 1559 burn, okay? You get those essentially in burnt supply, not as a dividend, but actually as burnt supply. Roundabout dividend. So a roundabout dividends. So a more tax efficient dividend. So the, the PE right now is a bit more hypothetical. Okay. But when ETH 2 comes around, it becomes, it becomes real. And it's only one pillar, one one leg of the, the triple point asset stool. It's just valuing ETH as a capital asset. And it is, by the way, absolutely insane to value ETH just as a capital asset. Absolutely crazy to do that. You need to value it as a

monetary asset, as economic bandwidth, because 6% is locked up in DFI, right? And maybe that increases to 10% and growing, just grew two more percent in the past, you know, three weeks. Why, Eath falls technically deployed? Haven't seen, haven't seen the UI yet. We'll see what happens when a UI's there. And then as a commodity as well. So all of these transactions, you better hold some ETH, right, to pay for all of the transactions.

So I don't know. That's all. What's what I want to say? Do you know that website that compares protocol fees, Bitcoin Ether, Uniswap? Do you know that one off the top of your head? Ah, yeah, what is that?

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. We've shown that one before. Anyways. Well, you could look at, you could look at, so on that website, both Uniswap and balance

are ahead of are ahead of Bitcoin in terms of fees, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So Bitcoin is like number four. So it's like ether is generating more fees, uniswap and balker generating more fees, and then Bitcoin is number four for the first time. Bitcoin's number four, huh? If you looked at Bitcoin's PE, it is 561.

And again, this is purely hypothetical for Bitcoin because it actually is not a staking asset, does not turn into a capital asset. It's just hypothetical. But if you compared it, that's what you'd see right now with Ether. If somebody's watching the YouTube who knows that website that we're talking about, please drop it in there. I would like to get that up. But the point is, is that like there are protocols on Ethereum that, I mean,

we've said this before. Protocols on Ethereum are making more fees than Bitcoin itself, right? And that's bullish in of itself. Ethereum is a protocol of protocols. And no one really knows how to evaluate it yet. But like we do know it's undervalued. That's for sure. It seems that way.

It's quite seems that way, that's for sure. I mean, I don't know. But so, yeah, why hasn't it followed suit? Defi going crazy. Why hasn't it followed suit? Do you have an explanation for that? Yeah, it's one of a kind of asset that no one understands. Except, I mean, I think I understand it to a decent degree, but like I don't think I

currently understand it to the degree that I will understand it into five, 10 years. Just no one understands. It's an information asymmetry. Right? And somebody's informational asymmetry is your opportunity. There you go. I was looking for that. I was looking for it, but I couldn't find it. That's not Anthony's Twitter feed, but it's pretty packed. But David, I think, I think that's all we have time for, my friend. That is all we have time for. Should we close it down here? We started this state of the nation and the sun was down and now the sun is up. The sun never sets on the bankless nation. That is fortunate.

It truly does it. I mean, we're global, right? Global revolution. Global revolution. Can use it anywhere. All right, guys, this has been State of the Nation episode number 12. So you can catch this on YouTube like right now as you're watching it. It comes out Tuesdays. And then if you prefer podcast audio, it comes out tomorrow.

As always, guys, this is not financial advice. We have our own opinions. We have our own thoughts. But we are not providing financial advice on this episode. We're also not providing tax advice. keep in mind everything we talked about wire and eith you know other defy they're all super risky you could lose what you put in but this is the journey we are going west guys and we are glad that you are with us on the bankless journey thanks a lot