Bankless - StarkWare Sessions #4 | Briq and StarkNet Governance with Sylve Chevet

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Sometimes, the frontier is at a crypto conference. We’re returning from our adventures in Tel Aviv with nine exclusive interviews with some of the key players in the StarkNet space.  Wish you could make it to all the crypto conferences, but don't have the time? Don't worry, Bankless brings the frontier to you. Sylve Chevet is the CEO of Briq, an NFT-building protocol with broad ambitions of becoming with building blocks of the metaverse. Sylve is also a steward of StarkNet governance, helping oversee the decentralization of the protocol, community, and ecosystem. ------ 📣 MetaMask Learn  https://bankless.cc/metamaskshow  ------ 🚀 JOIN THE NATION:  https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/subscribe  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:  🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken  🦄UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap  ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum  🚁 EARNIFI | CLAIM YOUR UNCLAIMED AIRDROPS https://bankless.cc/earnifi  👻 PHANTOM | CROSS-CHAIN WALLET https://bankless.cc/phantom  ------ Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 4:50 Briq 8:30 How it Works 11:00 Starknet the Enabler 14:20 Silve’s Story 15:15 Decentralization of Starknet 18:51 On-Chain Governance 20:00 Stark Token 22:25 Devs and Governors 26:00 Vibes 30:00 Get Involved ----- Resources:  Sylve Chevet https://twitter.com/sylvechv  Briq https://briq.construction/  StarkNet https://starkware.co/starknet/  ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures 

Welcome to Bankless, where we explore the frontier of internet money and internet finance. And sometimes that frontier is at a conference, like last weekend, where over a thousand developers, founders, builders, and investors attended the Starkware sessions in Tel Aviv in order to participate in growing the Starknet ecosystem. This is Bankless's Starkware session series, which are nine bite-sized episodes interviewing the founders, builders, and ecosystem developers of Starknet. Every once in a while in the crypto world, a conference happens, but not. not everyone is available to attend. Don't worry. Bankless has your back because I go to basically every conference that's out on the frontier and I bring an entire podcast studio in tow with me in order to make sure that the Bankless Nation stays on the frontier of what's happening in crypto. In this episode, I'm talking with Silva, who is a governance facilitator over at the Starknet

Foundation as well as building on Starknet with his project, Brick. That's BRIQ. We kick off this conversation talking about brick and it is composable one-of-one by units of NFTs that he hopes will be adopted by surrounding Starknet applications. But the meat of this conversation is really all about Starknet governance, which we turn to pretty quickly in this interview. Silva is a Starknet governance facilitator, a steward, if you will, of Starknet governance. And this was one of the first experiences I had when I landed in Tel Aviv.

I landed in 10 a.m. in the morning, and I immediately walked over to the hacker house to see what the hackers were hacking on. Not too long after I got there, It was announced that a governance workshop would happen in about 30 minutes in the room next door. And so eventually people started to trickle over and these two governance facilitators sat down, literally crisscross applesaw style, and started to talk about what was the plan for Starknet governance and how governance would roll out.

And the TLDR of that plan is that the community needs to come together and help them create a plan. And so this is why in my article, if you read this on Thursday and other areas of the Starknet sessions interviews, I talk about Starknet as a governance platform is just learning how to stand up. But these developers are learning that not only can they do really cool things on Starknet, but that doing cool things on Starknet has imbued them, empowered them with ownership over the protocol. So developers are learning what it means to field ownership over Starknet. And the Starknet Foundation is learning how to give their developers and their protocol

devs a voice and control and power. over Starknet. So we are in the very beginning days of Starknet community governance and learning how to stand up and walk. And this is where I got a large amount of my impressions and information about overall what the community and ecosystem feels about the protocol that it's building on. I'd sum it up as excited, slightly intimidated, but very optimistic and very early, of course. So I hope you enjoy this conversation with Silva from the BRIC team and as well as the Starknet ecosystem governance facilitators. But first, I want to talk about some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible.

Cracken has been around for almost as long as crypto itself. As crazy as crypto is, Cracken has remained a rock for its clients, building out a platform designed to stand the test of time. Cracken is all about proof, not promises, which is why they've pioneered a proof of reserves, a system that lets Cracken's customers verify for themselves the solvency and responsibility of the Cracken exchange. And for this reason, and many more, we've chosen Cracken as best. Bankless's strategic sponsor for 2023.

And once you're done using Cracken to get your dirty Fiat money into pristine crypto assets, perhaps you should check out Arbitrum, where so much of the frontier of crypto innovation is taking place. Arbitrum just announced their Stylist initiative, which is their brand new programming environment that lets developers deploy apps using their favorite programming languages like Rust, C, C++, alongside regular old solidity EVM apps. Stets can use any coding language they like,

and it simultaneously drops layer two fees by an order of magnitude. It's a big deal. So many of your favorite DPI apps have already deployed to Arbitrum, like Uniswap. But did you know that Uniswap isn't just for ERC 20 tokens anymore? Uniswap is also an NFT aggregator too to make sure that you are getting the best price on your NFT purchases. Uniswap gives NFT collectors and traders powerful tools, all from the cozy, comfy uniswap interface.

By the way, it's also got a native Fiat on ramp. It's also deployed on like every layer two, and it's got this nifty cool thing called a universal router that ensures that you always get the best price on your trades. Crypto protocols like Arbitrum and Uniswop are becoming super powerful. So make sure that you're also using a wallet that's equally as powerful or else you'll be missing out. If you're looking to upgrade your wallet experience, check out Phantom, the number one wallet of Solana, which has recently come to both Ethereum and Polygon. Phantom has native NFT support, giving you your own NFT gallery from inside the wallet. Phantom is both a browser extension and a mobile wallet and is also the only wallet to span both the Solana and Ethereum ecosystems.

Check it out at phantom.com. And now let's get into the interview. make the station once again at Starkware sessions in Tel Aviv, Israel, and I am here with Sealf, who's got a couple hats on. And so we're going to talk about both of them today. One of them is Brick, and the other of them is a governance facilitator over at the SarkNet Foundation. Silv, welcome. Nice to be here. So which one do you want to talk about first?

Brick or your role at the StarkNet Foundation? Let's go for Brick. Brick. Okay. What's Brick? So Brick is a NFT Building Protocol. So think Lego or a construction game, but running entirely on the blockchain. So the thing that we wanted to do is twofold. First of, we wanted to, like, solve composability

because you have all these axes and they don't do anything with crypto puns. Now, on the other hand, we wanted to give people a way to act upon NFTs. And right now, we can, like, buy them, consume them, but it's pretty difficult to build them. And so the thing we thought is, like, okay, NFTs became a little bit like physical items.

What's the equivalent in the real world? Right. And like, in the real world, people don't build stuff. They build with Lego because that's made for this. And they're composable because they're made for that. So we replicated this exact system, this composability, but running on chain.

So you got 100 bricks, you build a house, it's an NFT. Does assemble them, get 100 bricks, build something new, assemble it with someone else. It's yours. Okay, so what, an NFT is the smallest unit of construction? Is that the idea? Yes, sir. And we're not actually talking about Legos. Is that a metaphor?

Or are we actually talking about LEGO. It looks like a voxel, so it's Lego-like, but every single brick is represented as a voxel. So you put four of them, that's a line, and this thing is an NFT. Okay. Wait, but we are literally talking about bricks. We are literally talking about bricks. Okay. Like, they actually look like that.

Okay. And so when we're talking about composability, you're literally talking about Legos. I was actually talking about Lego. Okay. Why? What can you, what, take us, where should our imaginations go here? The way you should think about it is the very reason we built it is because we think the way people have thought about composability so far has been dead wrong.

Okay. The way you should think about compulsability is not, if you, if you compare this to like a real world example, it's like, oh, I want my axi to be with a crypto bunk and something happens. It's a bit the same thing as if you took like a go piece and you put it in chess. It just doesn't work. So I have a question for you. What's the most composable game asset in the physical world?

The most composable gaming asset in the physical world. Me? You're gamable. The human person, the human player. Close. It's a deck of 52 cards. Oh, of course. Okay, sure. And the reason it's very composable because it's like thousands and thousands of games all across the world that we use that same asset is because it's super dumb. Okay. It's over specify. You get a color, a rank, and a type, and that's it. And that's just something that gets interpreted. Sure. Whereas the way we think about composability is, oh, let me actually build 70,000 different standards that I attach to my item. And you don't interpret it. It's all about building something that is underspecified and allowing people to interpret it.

Okay, so it's like inverting what composability means. Absolutely. Okay. What use cases do you imagine, or is that kind of antithetical as in like it's the whole thing? I think it's the whole thing. Right now we wanted to help people just build assets without them having to be like a software developer or a graphic designer. It's just you go and bring that construction, you start stacking cubes and you've built something, you've built an NFD. So we have a surprising amount of like people who are like, oh, I have my kids playing brick and like build a house.

or something. Because that's a way for you to act upon these things. You just need to know how to stack like cubes. So it's fairly easy. Is calling this a Minecraft metaphor? Is that right? It is. Okay. So how should people envision this? Is this supposed to be like a virtual world that I play in? That's a really good question. We're not a game. We're not going to rebuild Roblox or Minecraft. We're a protocol to help people build assets. So for instance, like for stock recessions, Shit, we have a QR code that we're doing with Cottridge. You just scan it and you get an NFT, like it's a little poor-up that is entirely built without a bricks.

That's just one thing you can do. Otherwise, you should have had graphic designer. I just did that on the UI, minted them. So if you desassemble the property, you get your bricks again and you can build like a tree house or something else. Okay, so there is a physical, or a 3D rendering, and this is a thing for me to go and play around and build and construct and deconstruct. Yeah.

And then the individual unit. are actual assets on Sarknet. And everything is running on chain. Like when you're building something, we actually store the shape on chain and we can make checks and verification. So for instance, if you want the 2D attributes, we can actually verify it on chain

thanks to Sarknet's computation power and the fact that is extremely cheap. The construction that you've made is actually very, very, it's just flat. So it's the same thing as the deck of 52 cards. It's like you have a very simple structure. In the end, it's just like a matrix, XYZ. Is there a brig there?

and you build rules on top of that. Okay, so is this composable with broader Starknet or is this more siloed into its own thing? It's completely composable with the rest of Starknet. Like, we're integrated with all the different wallets. We're working with different NFT projects to work together. So think of Brick as like NFT matter. That just helps you build stuff.

Okay, so say I've got my NFT avatar. Can my little NFT avatar like walk around the brick world and go into a brick house? You're like, what's going on here? So for now, it's just an object. It's like completely static. So we're not rebuilding a metaverse or anything else. Like, we're all working with metavers

so that you can bring any construction that you have inside a metaverse. But think of them as just like items that get reinterpreted. Okay. What are you hoping people do with brick? Honestly, I want them to surprise me. To give you an idea,

like we have one extremely talented person who's building an entire PFP collection with bricks. It's like one little dock It's a day. They've been doing me for like a year now. That's the kind of stuff. Oh, yeah, but like I don't know how blockchain works. I don't know how NFTs works. So I just started using the cubes and it just clicked and it worked. So that's the kind of thing I really want to, I want to see people do. Okay. This possibilities are so endless that I actually don't know how to proceed in this interview.

Like what other parts of this universe are, I haven't illuminated yet that we should talk about? That's about that. It's both extremely like simple and weirdly complex. It's like you're just putting matter on the blockchain. So it doesn't go much farther than this. It's more like a tool for imagination that you can reuse, recompose, rebuild. It's just there for the taking. But of course, Starknet uniquely enables this, right? Yeah.

So we're one of the very early projects to launch on Stocknet. We launched in October 21. We more or less crushed Stocknet Mainnet when we launched on December 21. So that was a whole thing. And initially we wanted to go on Stocknet because I knew the Stockway team I worked at a little job before I knew the team. And we decided that we wanted this not running on a side chain because of bridging issues.

And we very much believe in validity roll-ups, known as ZK roll-ups back in the day. And the only functioning test net was stock net. So we just deployed, it worked. It was so early that not even like Argent or Brabos at the other wall, that were not even there.

It just worked. Like the community just grow around us. There are a lot of very cool on-chain gaming projects, like cartridge, realms, for instance. So it's uniquely interesting for us because the more on-chain things you have, the more

it makes sense to use bricks for this. Why does it make sense? Can you just unpack that a little bit more? Why does it make it make sense to use the So for instance, let's say you build a little house with brick and you build the whole verification system to verify that it's like a game could say I would only accept assets that follow certain standard.

Like they have to be brown, they have to be in 2D, they don't have to have this or that color. Because we're putting all of that on-chain and these games have the power to actually actually use this logic on chain, it just makes it uniquely positioned as an acid building. Okay, so I can build a particular shape of a brick thing, and other parts of the Starknet ecosystem can accept my shape if it works inside of their ecosystem? Absolutely, yeah.

Okay, and so you're literally trying to go for the most smallest unit of composability and hoping that the rest of the ecosystem starts building stuff. Exactly. Okay. So composability just starts from like the slow. lowest unit rather than building something that is overly complicated and try to build standards. Okay. How do I get my hands on bricks? You're going to bring that construction and we're going to drop another collection soon.

We're working towards like fully decentralizing their protocol. So if people are something that looks like nouns Dow, so you can build bricks, anyone is able to build a collection on top of brick that you have Lego Star Wars. I want to have brick nouns, brick boardates absolutely anything. So you'll be able to build bricks, you'll be able to fund the Dow, choose what gets prioritized in terms of development, the whole she bag. Are all the bricks the same size? Yeah.

Okay. How do you measure size? Think of it as like, it's a resolution problem. Like if you can build the same thing with like 3,000 brick or just three bricks, it just matter how you, how you size it. Is one brick a one by one unit? Yes, sir. Okay.

It's like a Vauxhall thing. It's like Minecraft. Cool. Okay. Okay. So one brick is one one unit. No units. It is.

Yeah. Okay, cool. Okay, Sylvie, you're also part of the governance facilitators for Starknet Foundation. How did you come to find yourself there? And what does that even mean? If I have to be completely honest, I think it was my shit-posting abilities on Stocknet that got me this job. So thanks, Mom. It actually worked. But I've been in the ecosystem for a bit of time now.

Know a lot of the other builders. And so the Stackett Foundation reached out to me and said, we're sending up to be like fully, decentralized. We want to have a gradual, open way of doing this. So we want people from the community involved in the Stocknet Foundation to shape things up towards a full-on digitalization. So my capacity is that I help, along with two other people, Devin and Menor, to help prepare the first votes on Stocknet and prepare what Stockenconvenants is about to be, is about to be like. Okay, that, the decentralization of Starknet is a huge topic. How does this conversation even begin? How do you even do your job? The first thing you have to keep in mind when

we talk about decentralization is that you have two main components. The first one is protocol decentralization. And it's the ability for anyone to run a note, participate in consensus. So that's very like the technical meaty part. That's one part of the equation. The other part is how do you choose what gets implemented in that decentralized protocol in a decentralized fashion? What do we prioritize the roadmap? What kind of update? get upgraded to production, how do we agree on like standardizations, what we call SNPs, it's like EIPs on Stocknet. It used to be called SIMs, but we obviously changed that name.

Snips is a great way. Snips is a great name. I just use the emoji. I'm really happy about it. Bips is pretty good. EIPs, not so great. Snips, I think takes the case. It's the best.

It's the best one I've heard. I'm really happy about that one. I'm happy we chose it. To give you an ID, like, there is an ongoing snip about should we write Stocknet with the lowercase end. It sounds dumb, but it's something that we have to decide upon. So the way we're approaching it is the first phase of governance are going to be about, we're going to allow token holders, delegates, and everyone who's involved in governance

to choose what goes into production. So for instance, the first vote on Stockman will be about stacking the version 011. And the question is, does it go into production or not? Right. Okay, so the current round of token governance with the Starknet token is really just giving the community a voice to veto protocol upgrades, which are coming from the more centralized part of the Starnet ecosystem. It's as if we're introducing like a democratic friction in the process. In the end, it's still business as usual as it stands today.

Stockware creates the upgrades, but we're introducing this so that we actually get a warm-up. People get used to it. People can build a track record. We understand what works and what does. into that, we can, let's say, move up the release stack, and we can actually at some point decide what gets prioritized, get feedback very early on. And in the end, the way I think, I started to better understand how governance worked when I pictured a foundation as, like, a government. It's like you're, but you're not managing like a country. You're managing

a public good, and that public good is Stocknet. And so you started realize why it's pretty difficult, because it's fairly rare that governance are created. And how do you acquire, I do think that, for instance, for a company, the most important thing is efficiency. But for a government, it's legitimacy. You can be slow. You can take your time. But the moment you lose legitimacy, you're just done. So that's why the Stagnet Foundation has decided to be very gradual, open, and responsible in the way it's approaching governance,

just to make sure that we're keeping that nugget of legitimacy. And it's probably good that we're starting with things like, should we have a capital N or not a capital N? because we're at the very beginning, right? We need the community to learn that they have a voice and be able to learn how to express that voice. Absolutely, absolutely. Just start small and then we'll just continuously increase the scope of what we want to govern about.

So it's funny because the current discussions are also about meta-governance. What do you govern about? What is, what can you legiferate about? So it's funny because we're basically reinventing the real. Do we need a bicameral system? Do we need the Supreme Court? How do we vote?

even the delegate system is exactly like the parliamentary system. So there's a whole range of inspirations we can take from. Something that's unique about StarCware is it's a token vote. It's on-chain governance. So the token is the governance asset. How is the token distributed? Like where is the token? Yes.

So at the moment, it's 50.1% is at the foundation. The rest is distributed between Stockland investors, Stockware and partners, and core contributors. During that first phase of governance, in order to make sure that a broader set of people are represented in the vote, the voting powers are going to look like a third for token holders, a third for core contributors excluding stockware, and a third for the foundation. The third of the foundation is 23% for the builder council, which is like a voter block of 17 builders that have been on the ecosystem for a long time, and 10% for delegators that the foundation is choosing.

What we hope to achieve this way is to attract people who want to be involved in governance and get them like training. Voice their opinion. Agree, disagree, how should we change things on a very limited scope at the time, but that will be gradually expanded. And so there's always this question of people love tokens. People also love air drops.

It doesn't sound like there will be an air drop. It will sound like if there will be an air drop. there is an airdrop, it will be because the foundation decided to do that with their own allocation, which will be something that governance determines. And so whether or not there is a Starknet air drop is probably going to be determined out in the public? It's probably going to be determined in a more decentralized fashion that what we're going to do right now. It's not going to be stuck where that randomly decides, oh, by the way, everyone gets a doggone, you get a token, and so on and so forth. It's going to be decided in a much more, uh, over the same way, uh, over the same way.

open fashion and both for like community retributions for partnership programs for grants for events the whole thing and Stark net actually has the privilege of having a very vibrant and alive development community which actually probably makes it easier to decentralize the whole system because there's actually a community of people to decentralize it too and so there's actually like people there to catch it on the other side and so really who should shows up in these governance decisions, who shows up as a builder, it's probably easier for that token distribution to start centralized and diffuse into these builders because you know who they are. They're the people here who have shown up as StarCware sessions or the people

who have shown up on chain on their development activity. What kind of philosophy has arisen, I know it's in the very early days, what kind of philosophy has arisen as to like how this token becomes distributed? Is there anything there to talk about? At the moment, it's actually not something I am currently working on. So it's not something I'm going to be very useful on. But the one thing I really want to drill down about what you said is it's a very deaf-centric ecosystem at the moment, but government is made up of a whole range of diverse opinions.

So if you haven't written Cairo, it doesn't mean that you cannot become a delegate. Anyone can be involved in governance. Anyone can voice their opinion. Anyone can say, for instance, right now, there's like a group of people who want to be like, oh, I want to be able to be like an ambassador for Starknet. I want to represent it. I want to talk about it to all the companies. And this is not necessarily very, it's not techy.

It's not about, oh, I want to build like a Ross program or something. But it's just that's important. And these are people that have to be incorporated inside the governance process of the Starnet Foundation. So the two camps of archetypes that I've seen in the Starknet ecosystem. Oh, I'm curious to know. Yeah, it's like you have the protocol devs who really care about the actual Starknet protocol, how it's designed, sequencing, stuff like this, the technical details,

the base chain details. You would call these protocol devs, core devs on the Ethereum layer one. And then there's also, so that's the first camp. Second archetype I found are the chirodebts, application builders. And these compose most of Starkware,

but I think what you alluded to is this third camp that's starting to arise is people who care about governance for governance's sake. As in like, maybe they're not even technical, but they are governors. Absolutely. And that is the new surface area that's been created in the Starknet ecosystem for people to arise to.

Is that right? Absolutely. If you take people like such as Polinia on Twitter, who keeps on repeating that he's not a technical person, but he's a very technical person. They, by the way. We don't actually, if it's a he or she. They're completely unknown. This is the kind of profile that we would want to have. Even if you're not technical, your area of expertise can lie somewhere.

else and it is a valid opinion that has to be voiced and I can just benefit the overall community and to your point about the app builders this is why the builder council is mainly constituted of app builders because we felt that the protocol there were already well represented in the roadmap they they obviously they talk with the rest of the community and the out builders but we wanted to have the app builders as more like the where the buck stops like this is where governance is going to be and this is more or less who you will answer to to, for the technical choice that have been made up front. So this is probably a call to action for the governance-minded out there,

that there is a lot of need for governors of Starknet. And so for those people that that sentence just peaks to curiosity, how can they become self-actualized? How can they find the agency in Starknet? The way to do it is to go on Stocknet.io. All the blog posts about governance are over there. This is like the plan. And the next step is you go on the governance forums.

The links is on their website, and you will be able to see all the discussion that happened, from the capital N to lowercase N, to the, oh, should we use standard mentor something else for the Consistent Protocol. And if you want to apply as delegate, anyone can apply to be a delegate. There's a delegate thread post over there. You just post your profile and get started. So you've committed a certain amount of your personal energies into Starknet. You're building brick.

You're also a governance facilitator. why have you decided to give up some of your human energy to Starknet? What about Starknet called to you? Oh, that's a good one. One thing I'm really proud I've done in the ecosystem is that I gave a talk in Lisbon

and I came up with the sentence, Keep Starnet Strange. And I think that's something that really resonated with me and it's, you have a weird amalgamation of builders that just want to try new things. And it's extremely endearing.

It's a very, I mean, there's no beam about like, oh, everyone's a gigabrain, et cetera, et cetera. But I think it's mostly about having, I think it's strange people. They try to do things differently. There's a vibrant gaming, on-shane gaming community.

People are trying to do something different because they were like, even the thought of, oh, I'm actually going to learn Cairo, which is completely different from any other ecosystem, than try something. I think it's really what appealed to me,

doing something differently. It doesn't mean that it's, like, completely superior or anything else. It just, I was very, interested in doing something relevant and different. One thing I've noticed, and one of the first experiences I had coming to Tel Aviv was going to the Hacker House and watching you lead a governance workshop. And I thought it was pretty cool when you and Devin, your co-facilitator, the first thing,

I don't know if you intentionally did this, but the first thing you guys did was sit down and cross your legs on the ground. And I thought it was very, very appropriate for like a governance workshop. It's like, all right, everyone, like kumbaya, we're going to like talk about. governance. We've been Shimposting about this for like a few weeks like, oh man, we did some more about the governance. It needs to be like fun to have governance. And so I look at Dev and I'm like, I'm actually

going to do it. So next time we're going to have like a speech baton that everyone has to have. The talking cube? Like I have the talking. Exactly. I'm sorry. You don't have the cube. You cannot talk right now. We want to have something that is like twerking people that we want people to be involved in. It doesn't have to be clinical. It doesn't have to be boring. I mean if you look at even like a hostry of governments or parliament,

it's all full of that indiscyncrasies. This is the kind of thing that we really want to replicate and have, like something that has a soul. Yeah, and really it was striking to me just seeing what, I keep on using Bologi's words, network state in ways that I'm not sure he would have used them, but I'm using them this way. And that seems to be what we're seeing here in Tel Aviv

at the Starkware sessions. It is a cultural meeting place of the network state of Starknet. And so this thing is, in its infancy, It's learning how to govern itself. It's learning how to think about itself. But that's kind of what I see today. Is that what you see? And where do you see this going?

I completely agree. And one advice I'd give to builders or anyone who wants to be involved in blockchain at large is, if not on Stocknet, go on any leg or two. That's what Vitalik said at ECC last year. It was L1 is going to become simpler, more ossified. But that means that the innovation is going to get driven to the edges of the network. So that's why on Stocknet, for instance, we have like native account abstraction, and that just allows a whole bunch of things.

We have a very, very young team called the Stocknet ID who have found a way to like implement SBTs with a kind of structure. And so they're finding like all kinds of new tricks and new ways of doing it. So it's like a way for you to make a name for yourself. There's always like, oh, you have to be early and so on. It's more than that. It's you get to build something and be. there and make yourself heard from a, like there's just so much cool stuff to build.

That's what's really cool. So what are you looking forward to over the next few years over in Starknet? The one thing I'm really looking forward to is seeing governance shape up, seeing more people stepping in, seeing how we're going to decentralize the whole thing. The thing I said is I came on Starknet for the tech, but I stayed for the vibes. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm also looking forward to like all the. like these weird and you're sync crises that the community is going to come up with,

like, there's this meme about like everyone being French, which is like honestly half true. It's only 70% of the ecosystem at the point. Between Israeli and French, like that's most of this, that's most of what we got here. Yeah, we have like three official languages, like Cairo, French and Hebrew. English is only tolerated at this stage. I mean, it's color-coded already. So that's what I'm looking. And like all the cool technical stuff.

And the one thing that I'm like really thinking about these days is when you get into like L3, L4 territory, it's more, okay, now that we have verifiability, what can we do that is different from a blockchain? Do you need blocks anymore? Can you just do like checkpoints that you send every hour? That's definitely something that we're looking for on the gaming side, like do what is called what I call like game channels. You play an entire, we could play a game, a provable game, just the two of us sending each other Cairo programs and a prover in our browser. And just at the end of the part of the game, we just send something to the chain. And that's super cool. That's just like all this theory of experimentation is what really drives me nuts. So if we've piqued the interest of any listener so far in this conversation, where should they go? How do they get started getting sorted into the Starknet world? So I think the best way for them to start is obviously the doc, Hello Cairo, really well

written. The hits don't actually matter if you're reading the doc. Then the next step should be Starklings, which is like a good. great tutorial that was built by the OnlyDust team, which brings me to the third step, which is stock contributing to an open source project on OnlyDust. So these people, they're organizing all the Open Source contribution on Stocknet, and it's actually great to give you an idea. You have people who are like, oh, yeah, I would like to drop my Web 2 job to, like, work in Web 3,

and these people find, like, big contributions, open source contributions for you to, like, ramp up on all these things, find a job. I mean, even my brother-in-law is not working on Stocknet. So that's how build I am. So I think they would say, like, Hello, Cairo, Starklings, and then stock contributing. Or maybe they got peaked by Brick. Or maybe they just want to follow you on Twitter. Where should they go for that?

I'm a Sylve, CHV, S-Y-L-V-E-C-H-V, and it's Brick NFD. With a cue. Sylvia, thank you so much. Thank you much. Cheers.