Bankless - Uniswap's Wallet Details with Callil Capuozzo, Design Lead at Uniswap Labs

Episode Date: March 8, 2023

Callil Capuozzo is the VP of Design at Uniswap Labs. Uniswap recently unveiled their brand new mobile app; and we’re going to explore that here today, along with asking about the long-term vision of Uniswap Wallet, and how Uniswap Labs plans to support and develop it! ------ 📣 RhinoFi | Makes DeFi Frictionless  https://bankless.cc/rhino    ------ 🚀 JOIN BANKLESS PREMIUM:  https://newsletter.banklesshq.com/subscribe  ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS:  ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum  🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken  🦄UNISWAP | ON-CHAIN MARKETPLACE https://bankless.cc/uniswap  👻 PHANTOM | #1 SOLANA WALLET https://bankless.cc/phantom-waitlist  🦊METAMASK LEARN | HELPFUL WEB3 RESOURCE https://bankless.cc/MetaMask  🚁 EARNIFI | CLAIM YOUR UNCLAIMED AIRDROPS https://bankless.cc/earnifi    ------ Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 6:00 Callil's Background 12:28 Design in Crypto 16:45 Uniswap Labs 18:00 Why Wallet? 19:25 Future of Crypto Wallets 23:30 Apple Gatekeeping  34:12 Uniswap Wallet Demo 48:20 Uniswap Wallet Roadmap 51:05 What Else is Uniswap Labs Building? 53:30 Smart Contract Wallets  1:00:25 Closing & Disclosures  ------ Resources: Callil Capuozzo https://twitter.com/_callil  Uniswap Wallet  https://twitter.com/Uniswap/status/1631691330031169537  ----- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures 

Who do we have on and what are we discussing? We are talking to Kaleal Kapuso, who is the VP of Design at Unitswap Labs. And a while ago, I was meeting up with Hayden when I moved here, moved to New York, and he kind of just gave me a little bit of the alpha about what they were working on over at Uniswap. And this is one of the products that they've been working on for a very long time and that they think that they can do better than the rest of the market. Of course they think that. So we're going to unpack this.

Like what about the uniswap wallet is so magical? And why is Uniswap of all orgs? Uniswap Labs stepping into the world of the wallet game because that wallet game is very, very hot. One of the big themes of Heath Denver is the wallets. Like ERC 4337 is deployed to Ethereum. Xerion came out with a smart contract or a Zerion came out with a browser extension. Did they?

Oh, yeah. That's the other. Yeah. So like wallets as a subject was a very big part of Heath Denver. and this is one of the bigger announcements in Heath Denver. So to bring Heath Denver a little bit to the bankless listener, we're bringing one of the bigger announcements out of Heath Denver to the state of the nation today. That's going to be fun to talk about this.

Guys, before we get in a few disclaimers, number one, un-swap is a current bankless sponsor. We thank them for that. We also hold some uni tokens from way back. You can see all of our disclosures at bankless.com slash disclosures, and also the wallet at bankless. You can always access that. Also, I want to give a special shout out to our. sponsor, Cracken. Cracken is just a phenomenal exchange. It's the exchange that didn't fail you back

in 2022. Okay, remember that. They've been serving customers since the early days of crypto and continue to do so. Our recommended exchange for 2023, go check them out. We will be right back, but before we do, we want to thank the sponsors that made this episode possible. Cracken has been a leader in the crypto industry for the last 12 years. Dedicated to accelerating the global adoption of crypto, Cracken puts an emphasis on security, transparency, and client support, which is why over 9 million clients have come to love Cracken's products. Whether you're a beginner or a pro, the Cracken U.X is simple, intuitive, and frictionless, making the Cracken app a great place for all to get involved and learn about

crypto. For those with experience, the redesigned Cracken Pro app and web experience is completely customizable to your trading needs, integrating key trading features into one seamless interface. Cracken has a 24-7-365 client support team that is globally recognized. Cracken support is available wherever, whenever you need them, by phone, chat, or email. And for all of you NFTers out there, the brand-new Cracken NFT beta platform gives you the best NFT trading experience possible. Rarity rankings, no gas fees, and the ability to buy an NFT straight with cash. Does your crypto exchange prioritize its customers the way that Cracken does?

And if not, sign up with Cracken at crackin.com slash bankless. Learning about crypto is hard. Until now, introducing Metamask Learn, an open educational platform about crypto, Web3, self-custody, wallet management, and all the other topics needed to onboard people into this crazy world of crypto. Metamask Learn is an interactive platform with each lesson offering a simulation for the task at hand, giving you actual practical experience for navigating Web3. The purpose of Metamask Learn is to teach people the basics of self-custity and wallet security in a safe environment.

And while Metamask Learn always takes the time to define Web3 specific vocabulary, it is still a jargon-free experience for the Crypto-Curious user. Friendly, not scary. Metamask Learn is available in 10 languages with more to be added soon, and it's meant to cater to a global Web3 audience. So, are you tired of having to explain crypto concepts to your friends? Go to learn.menomask.io and add Metamask learn to your guides to get onboarded into the world of Web3. Arbitrum 1 is pioneering the world of secure,

Ethereum scalability and is continuing to accelerate the Web 3 landscape. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum 1, producing flourishing defy and NFT ecosystems. With a recent addition of Arbitrum Nova, gaming and social daps like Reddit are also now calling Arbitrum home. Both Arbitrum 1 and Nova leverage the security and decentralization of Ethereum and provide a builder experience that's intuitive, familiar, and fully EVM-compatible. On Arbitrum, both builders and users will experience faster transaction speeds.

with significantly lower gas fees. With Arbitrum's recent migration to Arbitram Nitro, it's also now 10 times faster than before. Visit Arbitrum.io, where you can join the community, dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets, and start building your first app.

With Arbitrum, experience Web3 development the way it was meant to be. Secure, fast, cheap, and friction-free. You're exploring the intricacies of the Uniswap wallet with Cal, who is the VP of Design at Uniswap Labs. He's going to tell us what Uniswap Labs is in a minute.

But Uniswap has recently unveiled a brand new mobile app. We're going to explore that today. We're going to talk about Apple. And the lengths it's taken. It's still a TBD on getting this across the finish line and approved via Tim Cook and the team at Apple to get this in the app store. We're going to talk all about that. Cal, welcome to Bankless. How you doing?

Great. Thanks. Thanks. Great to be here. Been a long-time listener, you know, to the Bankless Nation. You know what? We've been longtime users of Uniswark. The little app you guys helped build.

And I understand Cal, coming into this, I was like, hmm, we should look up Cal. Like, what's his background? He's never been on bank lists. Somebody called you the Johnny Ive of crypto. Okay? And for those not familiar, I said this to David. He was like, who's Johnny App?

I'm like, Johnny Ive, the guy who did this phone thing that's in your hand, the iPhone, like all of these sleek designs in the early days, because I understand, Cal, that you were employee number two, something like this at Uniswap and responsible for the design, the aesthetic, the simplicity of that original Uniswop app. Can you tell us a little bit about your story, how you got involved in Uniswap, and, you know, meeting Hayden and all of these things? Absolutely, absolutely. Well, that's very high praise.

You know, I got a few more years to go, maybe a lot more to be that. But yeah, but I'll tell you a little of the background. So I've known Hayden for a long time. Basically, we grew up together. Our families knew each other back when we were little kids. So it's been a long time. My background is in design. I went to school for industrial design,

and then after that, worked in the tech industry, doing like new and experimental products. And during that time, I was kind of seeing around me, the benefits and drawbacks of these tech giants we know today, right? And I was also seeing, you know, friends of mine that I knew from art school, from design school, who were trying to make a living, you know, expressing themselves on the platforms that these tech giants

kind of had. And I started to get really interested in sort of questioning, like, why is it that, you know, my friend who's making the most amazing, you know, paintings are like a really cool chair, why do they have to, like, post that work up for likes, right? Why is that the mechanism that they need to use to get exposure? So that's sort of what started my, like, you know, questioning these systems. And I started to look for things out in the world that sort of we're starting to think about that. And so my first sort of touchpoint for crypto, it wasn't really cool. crypto is more about decentralized publishing, which today we know as like IPFS and things like blue sky and kind of more the social side of things. But very quickly sort of like those worlds

started to merge, right? And Hayden and I reconnected, you know, after we had both done our things and our careers at a meetup in New York City for NYC Mesh, which is like a community-owned mesh networking ISP. And he showed me the first prototype of what Unuswap would become, which you should all look up, by the way, it's on a blog post that we have. It's like, like this amazing blue flying unicorn crazy site. Can we find that? How would we find that? So look up the Uniswop blog, look up the story of Uniswap.

There's one that's like our history. You can probably search like Uniswop history blog and scroll a little bit down. There's a picture of that first site online. I think I'm finding it here. A short history of Unswap. Yes, exactly. Yep. Was this?

Whoa, I remember that one. Yeah. No, dude. I don't remember this. Oh, I remember that. That's a throwback. I remember that. I remember that neon text.

Yeah. Yeah. So little, so this is the first little, uh, history is that this is the pre Johnny Ive. The pre Johnny Ive. Okay. Really that Hayden was the first uniswap designer, you know, in addition to he was, he was the first of everything. Um, but you know, in a lot of funny ways, like the, the, the, the ethos and like the spirit of uniswap here, you know, that's what we tried to bring. It's similar vibe.

Like you have the unicorn, you have the kind of the, the funky like neon, the pinks. They use of these, like, unicorns. like colors. Yep. It's similar vibe. Yeah. And, you know, I'll be honest with you. When I first saw this, oh, yeah, this is also.

So another thing to kind of note at the time is that this was what the standard experience for exchanging tokens. I do remember this. So for the podcast listeners, we are now looking at the infamous Ether Delta, which much more looks like a traditional centralized exchange with a terrible UXUI. But if for those that didn't actually use Ether Delta on chain, it was the worst. U.S. I have ever experienced. Barely functional. I'm barely functional.

It was like three transactions to get your assets just loaded up available to trade. And it was co. It was if you ever traded on Ether Delta, you probably deserve a po-app. You were early. You were unequivocally early AF. Yeah. What do you deserve? You're an OG.

If you know this, you know, you're an OG Ethereum for sure. Truly, truly OG. And I think, you know, Hayden's genius in a way is that he's recognize how crappy that was, right? Like, not only did he have the awareness to like, you know, go read Vitalik's post, think really deeply about exchange, but also had the awareness to be like, wow, this UX sucks. This is terrible. So, so yeah, to continue the story, like this is, this was the context that we started talking and we, you know, I offered to help. It was very casual. I barely understood it, to be honest with you. And initially we built,

yeah, you can keep scrolling a little bit to get to that first UI, I think, uh, keep going a little bit uh yeah keep going it's very long here we got shirts we got yeah there's shirts there's a lot of history you know yada yada yada he works he works at optimism that's that's helvin that's that's kelvin above and hidden down below yeah we're going we're speed right of the history i love it i love it this is a long long long it's not here oh it's not here um i'm trying to think there there is an old version online uh which will i'll i'll find some point. You guys can actually search probably V1 uniswap in Google, and I'm sure it'll come up. All right. I'll like you want to see that. Yeah. Cool. Sure. Sure. Yeah. So, so yeah,

those early days, you know, it was very casual and, and we were just kind of experimenting. And the way we worked together was that, you know, I had a studio a lot like the one I'm sitting in now, maker studio kind of vibes. And I was doing some freelance work and some other Ethereum things. And, you know, here and there over text and Hayden would come over at like late at night. And we'd just like jam for hours, honestly. developing what we know as like the swap UI today. And it took a long time. And I think the initial innovation, you know, like I said, design is this kind of iterative

thing. You really have to like throw things at the wall and explore. But there are like core sort of ideas that you're trying to kind of shape, right? So there's a notion and design of this idea of like a mental model, right? I'm sure you all know what that means. But it's really important when you're doing design work to be giving people a mental model that's very clear. If you look back at that Ether Delta image, you know, there's a lot of different input boxes. There isn't like a framework for thinking about something. The innovation of the

swap UI is the input output, right? It sounds kind of dumb and simple, but really having that mental model of like, give this, get that wasn't obvious at the time. And it was only through some sort of experimentation that we kind of landed on that end constraint, right? We were me and Hayden and then eventually a contractor we hired to do development and then eventually NOAA and then, you know, Uniswop team. But it was really a small team in those early days. And that's what drove the constraint as well to get to the simplicity. Yeah, I'm really enjoying this perspective because I think Cal, I'm just learning as we're talking right now about just like what it means to be a designer in the world of crypto. I also appreciate the carpentry tools in the

background, a designer across all respects. What your job is is, is like, you know, you know, Like there's this technology, smart contracts, X times Y equals K pricing algorithms, AMMs. And it's your job to get that technology expressed up to the user in a way that like, oh, I'm landing on this page. I've never been here before, app.uniswap or uniswap.com. And then all of the design is actually illustrative and communicative of the smart contracts that underlie these things. And so can you just like maybe like walk us through your design brain,

your thought processed as you were learning about, because we were all learning about Uniswap all at the same time. I remember the two weeks in Crypto where Uniswap came on the scene, and it was the talk of the town, and everyone was trying to figure out why. And it was really that one very, very elegant pricing curve. It was the, like, A, it was the X times Y equals K pricing model, but then also just the automated market maker design as a whole.

Can you talk about as a designer, put us in your designer brain and talk about like your thought process, like what you needed to do to your job. to do your job of allowing these smart contracts to express themselves. Yeah, absolutely. And I think you set that up really well because it really is about understanding the smart contract, right? And, you know, in those early days, I read the white paper, right?

Didn't mean I understood it. I didn't understand deeply the math, right, the curve math. But what I did understand, you know, by also talking with Hayden, it started to unpack like the higher level abstractions, right? And you could start to think about when you see the. parts of the system that a user touches. Those are the moments that are really, really important, right? And as a designer, you start to get a, you know, the more you read, the more you talk to a solidity engineer or people who are working on this stuff, that should be your question, right?

Like, what is the moment that a user touches this thing, right? And let's talk about, you know, that input box literally, right? Because a lot of crypto design at the end of the day, this is going to sound reductive, but I don't, I actually mean that's kind of in a good way is a lot of making great form inputs, right, but making intuitive sort of ideas and framing input boxes, right, for users. And then going one level deeper is like abstracting that input, abstracting the level of control that users have out into more mental models that are simpler, right? So if you read the Uniswap white paper, it doesn't describe, you know, two input boxes, right? That's not how it described it. But it does describe a pool that has two assets, right? And so like those are the

moments that you have to start to question and think about. And the last thing I'll say, just to try to keep it a little brief is like, the designer's job is to understand a system, and then we are the advocates for users, and we try to reflect people's understanding at the time of the world around them. So the patterns we use are best practices. And when I choose an input box in a design, and I make it feel like other input boxes that you see on the what I'm doing is giving people that little handhold to hold on to so that they can take the things they've learned in technology and bring it to a new system, right? And that's really the designer's job is knowing when to make people comfortable, give them handholds of things that look familiar and recognizable, and when to push them a little farther into new systems. Yeah.

I know one of my takes on this when I first understood uniswap was like, wow, this reminds me of Google, the simplicity of Google. and like from the days of sort of the early web where we had like interfaces that looked like this like this is Alta Vista like back in the 90s Alta Vista, Ether Delta, you know? Yeah, exactly. It's like and this is the Ether Delta basically. And what did Google do?

This was one of their first interfaces from 1999, one simple search box. And that's kind of the level of abstraction that the uniswap interface provided. So, you know, well done, Mr. Johnny. I thought that's a fantastic. fantastic way to extract the design here. Thank you.

Yeah. Okay. So Uniswap is doing a wallet. And we should say this is coming from Uniswap Labs, which as we understand is a separate entity that is not the same as the protocol. So there's the protocol, which is basically smart contracts and a Unitokin that is a separate thing. And then there's this company like a US-based company called Uniswap Labs that is building

all sorts of crypto tooling, some of which is related to the protocol, some of which is related to the protocol. which is not. And this wallet is coming out of that company of tool makers. Is that correct? That's what Uniswap Labs is. That's correct. Yeah. And maybe this is a little too strong, but to continue the analogy, you know, this way we see it is like Google built on HTTP, right, and TCPIP. They built on protocols. And what they did was like indexed that protocol, right? That's what that UI was made for it to do. Right. And like we see Uniswops Labs role as like building these great consumer experiences on top of these, you know, the Uniswap protocol and other things,

right? In the wallet today, we support ENS, right? We're taking advantage of this open platform that we can build on to do more. Yeah. Really cool. So tell us why a wallet. Why did you go down this path? Why did, why did you have the odd? We have wallets in crypto. Cal have a lot. I also had wallets. Tell us why a wallet. Yeah, why a wallet? Well, I mean, the story is fairly simple. at the end of the day, basically, because we built this interface that that was very simple, we found growth, right? We found product market fit for that specific tool. And what we started to hear from users is all of the pain points of using crypto today. So what happens, if any of you out there listening, I've worked at, you know, DAP companies, I'm sure what you've found is that

the number one thing for customer support is wallet pain points. So Uniswap Labs, Uniswap, what we hear most often is the problems that users have, not with the protocol, not with the app, but with the wallets themselves. So for the past few years, Hayden and I have always wanted to solve this, right? We always felt like, oh, man, like all these problems that, you know, a lot of this have been solved today, but back in the day, like, token's not appearing in your, in your wallet after you swap them. Like, that's ridiculous. That is so simple, right? But that was a big pain point and continues actually to be for many people. And so we knew these problems existed. We knew that we could do great UX, you know, from our experience in the, on the app. And we thought that we are like

no better prime to be the people because we understood it, because we know people's pain points to be delivering a great wallet to people. So, Cal, I think the question that people all have that I certainly have is that in what ways is Uniswap innovating on the wallet, on the wallet landscape. Well, like, where are the pain points that Uniswap is trying to smooth over? So if, if we had Ether Delta and then we had Uniswap on the AMM and you fix that problem, are you, is that the same mental model that we should apply here? Like if the current landscape of wallets is Ether Delta, where are we going? Where's the future of Ux going inside it? And how is Uniswop leading us there? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think the day, just to

caveat this to say, like, where we are today with wallets is a lot better than we, where we were with decentralized exchanges back then. But, you know, Uniswob Labs wants to be in that conversation because we have, you know, a world-class protocol engineering team who can innovate on, you know, smart contract wallets and safes and all this kind of stuff. And we really want to be in that conversation because we think we have something to add.

Yeah, on the UX side, you know, so there's a bunch of things we're doing in our wallet that some other people do, but we think we deliver as like a great package, especially for like swapping users specifically. things like showing assets across all chains instantly, right, or all the chains that your swap supports instantly, making that data really reliable and robust and accurate,

you know, doing push notifications that are real time after swaps so that you are confident about the swap that you're actually doing in your wallet and making a onboarding kind of process and a backup process that, you know, if you really don't care about it, you don't have to see a seed phrase ever, right? You can just rely on this. system that we kind of have built that's super secure and very safe to get onboard and get started swapping.

Wait, what is that system? Basically, when you get started, you know, you can back up to ICloud. In addition to backing up on a paper, you know, backing a receipt phrase on paper. So you can kind of choose, pick and choose. And, you know, these days, I am still kind of a privacy and security maxi. I don't necessarily like recommend that everybody should be backing stuff up to iCloud. It's really a user should choose that. But if you're just getting started in crypto, you know, for most people who are not super tech

literate who are just getting started, we should be offering things like this. Yeah. It's better than using your seed phrase, like losing your seed phrase, like which is what a crypto can do. So if you don't feel comfortable maintaining capacity of that, then maybe you have to do that. I will remind folks that, of course. that Apple iCloud because i just looked into this it's not end-to-end encrypted so that means it is encrypted but Apple has the keys as well so they could if they wanted to they could kind of

go in there and yonk your funds one thing we've done to like help with this is we've actually gave it gave the users an additional level of security on top of just iCloud so when you do an iCloud you actually have to set a personal passphrase on the backup, right? So ICloud, Apple would have to, you know, somehow get that personal passphrase to even unlock the account. So you're encrypting it before you back it up into the cloud. Correct. Oh, that's smart. Okay.

So that's better. Yeah. So we've really like, like I said, like our team is like really, really careful and very specific when we offer things like this. We're not yolowing. You know, at times it means that we're like still. you know, like doing, you know, we're still little maybe like behind the pure, pure meta of like 4-437, right, like, exact, you know, for example, but we're really, really particular and careful to make sure that the tools we're giving people are a truly like bankless experience, right?

That we're not putting people into a position that would compromise security if another part of the system was compromised. We're definitely going to talk about 4337 smart contract wall, it's not sort of thing. We're also, we want a demo of this in a few minutes. But before you get there, I want to ask, we're just talking about our. iCloud can let's talk about apple for a minute okay so i i woke up to this a little bit i was like not doing crypto things all weekend which is unusual for me but uh on monday i woke up to some stories i was seeing and i'd heard this by by you know through the rumor mill etc that apple was blocking

is actively kind of blocking uniswap from launching its self-custodial wallet and really that the uniswap team had been given no reason and my immediate reaction to that is like assuming that's true, we can kind of like validate that with you, maybe today. It's like, man, I'm so tired of our technical overlords gatekeeping the internet. Like, who are you, Tim Cook or Apple, to say that this specific self-custodial wallet is okay? And this is not, right? And I'm wondering if that is indeed a true story. Has Apple been actively blocking uniswap from deploying its wallet?

Because as I understand it, going into this conversation, you cannot go into the Apple iOS store and download it. There is maybe a test flight link that we can talk about in a minute. But they've been blocking you. It's not because the app's not ready. It's because you just haven't been able to get through the gatekeepers. Can you tell us about this? Yeah, yeah, happy to. Yeah, so you're right.

That's where we're at. It's a test flight right now. I would say the way to frame it is that we're in dialogue with Apple. This, you know, it's not a no-go-no-go, like sort of blocked, purely blocked thing. It's a conversation that we're having. And we also understand that many other, you know, DAV developers in the space have also run into similar issues with Apple. And the kind of like phrase that I've been using is it almost feels like we're like playing

by a rulebook that we can't read, right? And that's like a pretty tough place to be in as an organization, you know, a company that's investing money in building this, you know, investing people's time. in this kind of stuff, right? And so it's definitely reminded us as an organization, you know, on the positive side, like why we got into this in the first place, you know, why we're building on open platforms, open protocols, you know, things without this kind of gatekeeper in the way. I think, you know, I am optimistic about this. I hope that Apple kind of sees the light. I think that Uniswap, as an example in other companies out there are examples of like great safe crypto experiences,

safe and secure crypto experiences. And that's kind of why, in addition to being a great developing platform, that's why we want to be on the Apple App Store, right, is because we're actually aligned with their goal of keeping users safe, right? We have token warnings in the app that don't block but warn you. We have great back and recovery. We like give you access to, you know, pretty above board sort of things. And so we want to be playing in that world.

And we just hope that Apple sees it that way as well. So far, we'll see. I think there's two different conversations here about apps in the Apple store as it relates to crypto. Cal, you said playing by a rule book that you can't read, but also that Apple is in conversations with you guys. So it's not like things are frozen or bad. And it kind of just seems like my intuition here is that Apple is probably also confused and learning how to do this. Right. Like, okay, crypto apps, unprecedented amount of crypto scams, new risk dependencies that they've never ever had to like

meaningfully thought of. And then there's also things like, okay, how does Apple charge is 30% tax? And I think there's probably two routes here. Like one, there might be some set of features that Apple's like, hey, we want 30%. And then there's another set of features who are like, hey, we need to make sure it's legit and not a scam and not like FGX. And what is our responsibilities here? Would you say that's a fair summary of the problem set here? Yeah. I think that's exactly right, basically. And it's true. You know, this is, it is a new industry and just understanding like the mechanisms of Apple and the review team, you know, their distributed team. They have a lot of different people who review apps. And it's complicated. You know, I have to give it to them. Like it's a complicated world. That being said, it's that their application of their system is very, very inconsistent. Okay. Which of the uniswap, maybe the answer is both. Which of the features inside of the uniswap wallet do you think has offended Apple? Great question. It's the unicorn, is it?

They don't like you. It's the unicorn. It's the unicorn. That's right. Yeah. I mean, look, like, to be honest, we actually, like, this is really honest. Like, we don't exactly know which specific issue it is, right? We get through this whole process, which, to be honest, has been months.

We've gotten actually different answers almost every time. And it seems like the answers they are giving are changing, you know, as they get more information, as they learn more. but also it's confusing. Okay, so just put us in the perspective of Unuswap as it's going through this. When you guys get an answer back from Apple, I don't know what it's like to push an Apple an app through test flight or whatnot. Sometimes if I have a support ticket, like it's a different person answering the support ticket.

And so like it's just chaotic just because it's a different person. How coherent is this relationship? Yeah. Without like going to too many details, that is something that has happened. You know, it's, you don't always talk to the same person. But I will say at this point, you know, again, not to go too far into it, I think we are now at a point we're having more consistent conversation. So we really hope to work through it soon. But isn't guys, isn't this whole thing kind of stupid?

Like, I'm sorry. I just like on the actual public internet, you can deploy things without going through support tickets and asking for somebody's permission who has to take the time to understand the industry to figure out if this is a scam or not. I'm just kind of sad that we've gotten to this point where the computers that we hold in our pockets are still so gate kept. It is not the free open internet. This is not TCPIP. This is the Apple App Store whose governance layer is Apple shareholders, essentially. And that's not the way it should be. This is just a rant.

Nothing anyone could solve. But we're hearing this from a lot of, I think, crypto developers and organizations trying to go through the apps. App Store that like things have really cooled post-2020 and FTX. Like that has put a pause where everything in crypto must be a scam because of FDX and because of, you know, Doquan and Luna and Tara. And I think that's put a chill on it. And then they also, they don't know what their business model is. And so they're just kind of in the state of not knowing what to do.

And so they're by default freezing everything. Is that consistent? Yeah. And maybe one more thing to add there too. is not only, you know, is it confusing? We have also seen here and there, you know, scam apps make it through, right? So not only, you know, is the system that we're talking about, you know, a little bit is non-transparent. It's hard to understand the rules. But even with that level of gatekeeping, even with the system is in place, there are still harmful things

making it through. And I think that's an example of when the system starts to fail and part of, you know, why we're all working in this industry. Yeah. So what bankless listeners don't see is that you've actually logged into the Zoom here with your phone. And so we are going to take a peek at the actual Uniswap wallet in a hot second as soon as we come back from these fantastic sponsors that make this show possible. Uniswap is the largest on-chain marketplace for self-custody digital assets. Uniswap is, of course, a decentralized exchange. But you know this because you've been listening to Bankless.

But did you know that the Uniswop web app has a shiny new Fiat on-ramp? Now you could go directly from Fiat in your bank to tokens in Defi inside of Uniswap. Not only that, but Polygon, Arbitrum, and Optimism, Layer 2s are supported right out of the gate. But that's just Defi. Uniswap is also an NFT aggregator, letting you find more listings for the best prices across the NFT world. With Uniswap, you can sweep floors on multiple NFTs, and Uniswop's universal router will optimize your gas fees for you.

Uniswap is making it as easy as possible to go from bank account to bank account, to bankless assets across Ethereum, and we couldn't be more thankful for having them as a sponsor. So go to app.uniswap.org today to buy, sell, or swap tokens and NFTs. The Phantom wallet is coming to Ethereum. The number one wallet on Solana

is bringing its millions of users and beloved UX to Ethereum and Polygon. If you haven't used Phantom before, you've been missing out. Phantom was one of the first wallets to pioneer Solana staking inside the wallet, and will be offering similar staking features for Ethereum and Polygon.

But that's just staking. Phantom is also the best home for your NFTs. Phantom has a complete set of features to optimize your NFT experience. Pin your favorites, hide your uglies, burn the spam, and also manage your NFT sale listings from inside the wallet. Phantom is of course a multi-chain wallet, but it makes chain management easy, displaying your transactions in a human readable format with automatic warnings for malicious transactions or fishing websites.

Phantom has already saved over 20,000 users from getting scammed or hacked. So get on the Phantom wait list. and be one of the first to access the multi-chain beta. There's a link in the show notes, or you can go to phantom.com slash waitlist to get access in late February. Hey, Bankless Nation. If you're listening to this,

it's because you're on the free Bankless RSS fee. Did you know that there's an ad-free version of Bankless that comes with the Bankless Premium subscription? No ads, just straight to the content. But that's just one of many things that a premium subscription gets you. There's also the token report, a monthly, bullish, bearish, neutral report

on the hottest tokens of the month. And the regular updates from the token report go into the token Bible. Your first stop shop for every token worth investigating in crypto. Bankless premium also gets you a 30% discount to the permissionless conference, which means it basically just pays for itself. There's also the airdrop guide to make sure you don't miss a drop in 2023. But really, the best part about bankless premium is hanging out with me, Ryan, and the rest of the bankless team in the inner circle Discord only for premium members.

Want the alpha? Check out Ben the analyst's DigenPit, where you can ask him questions about the token report. Got a question? I've got my own Q&A room for any questions that you might have. At Bankless, we have huge things planned for 2023, including a new website with login with your Ethereum address capabilities, and we're super excited to ship what we are calling Bankless 2.0 soon TM.

So if you want extra help exploring the frontier, subscribe to Bankless Premium. It's under 50 cents a day and provides a wealth of knowledge and support on your journey West. I'll see you in the Discord. All right, and we are back when we're going to take a peek under the hood. of the uniswap wallet. And I actually downloaded the uniswap wallet and I put some ether, some USC,

and also a crypto coven this morning, which is why I bought a coven if you were following me on Twitter. I think it's great. It's my first pink wallet. Kyle, can you really just like walk us through and take us a peek into the hood for us and show us what this wall can really do? Absolutely. Happy to.

So I'm going to be sharing from my phone here. So the thing I'm going to show first is a little bit of the onboarding experience. just because I think it's important. So I'll show this briefly and then actually I have to type of password. So I'm going to stop and then reshare it in a second. But it's worth going through. So one of the key things that happens here when you get started in the wallet is that there's a few options.

You can create a new one. You know, this is where you do start with a recovery phrase. You can import an existing one, right? So from any other wallet that you can export a seed phrase from. And you can add a view-only wallet. So if somebody gets their hand on this test flight and you don't feel comfortable with security, add your view-only wallet. Just paste your public address, your internet,

N S name in. You can see it and experience it before, you know, try before by sort of thing. If you are comfortable, which, you know, we all are at Uniswop, you know, I put my seed phrase in. All the developers are in where like the app is done. It's not a beta, you know, it's ready to be launched. We're still just in this thing with Apple. So just that. And then I did want to show this sort of restore from ICloud thing. You know, like I said, it's a passphrase. But when I do this, so essentially it'll detect that I have a backup to get. So let just stop here. So I'm going to stop sharing, put my password in, and then I'll show you the next. Yeah, let's show you the next screen. You know, if people want to, you know, the OG multi-sig, right?

So you're trusting this to backup your stuff to. Yeah, this is a real password. Man. Right. Yes. It's, it's real. I mean, that's what I said about the ICloud, the security and backup. this sort of, you know, I trust. You encrypt it before you. Encrypt it, exactly. So what I'm doing right now is actually using my encrypted, using my passphrase to unencrypt, right, the backup, essentially. So you're already logged into, you're already authenticated in ICloud on your phone, and then you're just putting in your own password that way you control.

Exactly. So here's what's something really cool we do is that we actually auto-detect all addresses that are derived from seed phrase that have a balance and auto select them for you. So I can go and continue here, right? You can see I cloud backup. I can add a manual backup and I can even learn about what a recovery phrase is. Continue. So I'll turn on notifications here and then also turn on a face ID for security.

And I'm in. So, okay, the face ID I've seen with other wallets means that the actual private keys for these wallets is held in this, a clear on clear. for the phone. Is that what's going on here? Yep. And we've done, we've kind of done a really good job sort of lowering, like taking that part of the security model, like to a lower part of the stack and written in Rust. So it's not happening in React Native. Like the engineering of this thing is really robust and secure and we're thinking about that detail. You can learn about this, by the way, while it's open source, which is pretty cool, you can learn about how it's built,

the whole stack. You can fork it. It's out there. And so whoever's like, if someone's really into it. We can fork it. You know, you got to do some of your own work around the data layer, but, you know, it's out there. The same way that's it. The original. Let's fork it. See if we can get it into the app store. What color should our wallet be? Let's do black. Fingless red. Red. So one one feature that we taught, didn't talk about, but we definitely have seen is that there, you can manage multiple wallets inside the wallet. So this is not a, you open up this wallet and you can add more wallets too and you can manage multiple wallets all at the same time. Right, right.

Right now, we only support one seed phrase, multiple C phrase support coming soon. We just wanted to make sure we're like really good at what we do. So, you know, that will be coming soon. But off the same phrase, I can now go through these wallets, right? And I can just tap between and it's pretty easy. This is my main public wallet, my ENS. You can look on it at it. quickly, we really focus on making things swipable, right, to get easy access to, to like,

all your assets in your wallet. You can just quickly go to the NFTs that you have, view them, you know, look at the latest activity. It's all across optimism, arbitram, polygon right now. And so all the assets that I have across all those chains are just right there. What, you have some hex? You didn't see anything. Don't, you know, actually, they, they did have some air drop. I don't know. I just don't. Yeah, that's my excuse, too.

Big X holder. I think the biggest thing that I noticed standing out here is the little chain indicators below each of the assets. So you have optimistic ETH for ETHRone. Oh, yeah, that's cool. And then that's got the little red circle. Then you have a normal Ethereum and also arbitram Ethereum. And that's where when I saw this while for the first time, that's really the thing that noticed and stood out to me. And as we all know, like we are moving.

into the multi-chain future, multi-layer-2s. We're already talking about super chains and layer threes. Do you have a plan, Cal, for how you plan to tackle all of this stuff? Yeah. So the way we think about it, I un-swap, is that we love the multi-chain future. We love L2s, especially EVM-L-2s. We think it is a big, big part of the future of all this stuff. And when we think about assets, you know, the ultimate vision

is that you should never really have to unless if you don't want to, like, touch a chain, a network switcher again, right? All apps should be across all chains. You know, it should be seamless. You should have the indicator so that you understand the security model you're opting into when you do that. But at the end of the day, you know, that should be available for you. And what's something we're working towards the multi-chain future. Can we talk about NFTs? So first of all, let's swipe over to NFTs, if you will. Show us like what are these things? What is that mushroom head thing? The mushroom head.

All right, this is a Shroomio. You know, tapping on it pretty nice. You get a little preview of the image. You'll notice here there's also a small button that actually shows the floor price of this collection. And you have some details around here. And if I click on that, something we're working on. The next release will have a much more improved version of this.

But you actually can explore the collection as well. And so you can go through find different shroomios and actually see some details about this collection at the same time. Now, do you guys offer NFT kind of trading functionality inside of the app right now? Because I know Uniswap Labs is doing something big in the NFT aggregation realm with the company you just bought. Yeah, that's right. So we now have, if you go to the UnivSwap web app, we have an NFT tab that is basically a marketplace,

aggregating all the major NFT marketplaces and getting you great prices for buying and selling NFTs. Right now on the wallet, it's view. only. So we don't offer the actual like functionality of the marketplace. You know, maybe one day we can kind of up in the air a little bit based on this Apple conversation. Yeah, this is, I'm guessing going back to the Apple conversation we already had, this is the conversation that like Apple would like probably enjoy their 30% cake on this one. This is probably, I'm guessing that's the that conversation. Is that right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know that it's a broader conversation, like the whole industry is in that same conversation right now. Right. How does how does Apple think it can

do that 30%, like how do they think they can charge 30% tax on NFTs? I don't understand how that's sustainable. Great question. And one one thing that we think about is so just like to zoom out for a second, like what we believe is like we have to build the best user experience possible so that people love these experiences and then go to Apple and advocate for the access to them. Right. It won't only be the company that has, you know, the leverage with Apple. It'll also be if we can build, you know, great safe user experiences that people love. That will also ultimately be a big part of the leverage for Apple to start considering this technology as serious. So user demand.

Okay. So can people, Cal get this right now? There is, I believe, a test flight version of it. So you can't find this in Apple store right now, in the app store. That's right. Some sort of a test flight version. And for the people kind of watching this or listening, are they able to access that? Or is that limited?

So we'll have a link at the end of this show that you can go and download. It'll be a little bit limited. I think the test flight invite will have 100, 100 links on it. But first 100 viewers, first 100 viewers to scan the QR code. Yeah, get your QR code thing ready, you know. And basically scan it. But if you follow our Twitter, get on our Discord, we're slowly inviting more. We really want people to be engaged and give us feedback because we're learning, right?

So we're learning about what makes it wild great, what people want to see, and what's kind of, you know, a good thing about this beta program or this is this, sorry, the test flight program is that we have an opportunity to kind of hear from you. And so get on it, grab, grab an invite and message us and teach us what we need to know. Cal just swapped, sold OP for Ether on Optimism Chain. Wow, I can't believe you would do that to the optimism team. Brutal. Okay. So you can trade on other layer twos and on the Ethereum main chain. You can do that natively in the app.

Can you trade from Arbitrum to optimism or vice versa? What about this world? Great, great question. Not yet. Not yet. That's something we obviously are working on. It would be if we would be foolish not to. But it's something we want to get right the first time, right?

We think that cross-chain bridging is challenging to do it right. And, you know, down on the wall and tell us, you want it, right? I know that I do. I think that is something that we really believe in and want to bring to it, but we wanted to like make sure we got the basics of swapping the way they are on the web app down to start. And so that we're starting just with, you know, swapping on on each individual chain. Right. Because I know, I know of two different decks and bridge aggregator aggregators that would love to be your guys as service provider. If the, if you guys were open to that, I'm sure. But this isn't an issue about Apple, right? That's just a, a, a, you

to swap tech conversation? Yep, exactly. Exactly. Okay, cool. A lot of this conversation is that's just like poking around. It's like, all right, where's Apple coming in here? And then where is actually Ethereum limitations coming in here? What is that big heart?

Which one's holding us back? What's the big heart at the top there? The big heart. So one of the pretty unique features about the wallet is that you can actually start, we're starting to step into a little bit of the social Ethereum world here. And so you'll notice I have two favorite wallets. Do either of you have an ENS that I can put in here? Davidhoffman.eath, brother.

Davidhoffman. Dot E. All right. So this is you. I don't know why that ENS name is not resolving. It should. That's on me. I haven't done that yet.

Ah, I see. But you can see I can actually search you, go through and find, you know, your entities. Oh, look at those collectibles. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, pretty beautiful. And I can even go and see the entire collection here, right?

So there's no way that the sound plays. correct? Oh, I don't know that is a music and as a podcast not yet, but that's something I know feature request, David, feature requests. And then, you know, let's say I'm curious about what you're doing on chain, right? I can see your activity, but you know, I can see the the crypto company you bought, but I can favorite basically and favorite your wallet. And now if I go back to my explore screen, you'll be here for me to have as a tap away. And I can also do that with tokens, right? So if I go to Blur, I hit favorite, up here, give it a second, okay, back. So that's why I have to show it out because you favorited it. Yeah, you know, I got all my

D-Gen wallet. No, no, it's just, we're just showing you on-chain data. Yeah. So that's kind of the system that we're setting up and we're kind of like starting to test around favorites and around making a dashboard that reflects the way you use, you know, crypto. And you'll see a lot, lot more of this. This is our MVP first iteration of this. You'll see stuff with NFTs coming soon. You'll see more rich and complex ways of seeing the chain in that form. And then last thing, just to feature wise, you know, we have send and receive. We have a beautiful design for different wallets that pops up if you, you know, switch around. So depending on the wallet I'm on, it'll actually like theme it. And then last thing is we, of course, support Wallet Connect, right?

So actually, let's see if I go back to this other wallet. I don't have any connected, but what will happen is if I connect to a DAP right in that connection, it'll say nine connections. You can manage it. You can actually have multiple DAP connections across multiple networks at the same time. So you don't have to change the entire wallet, the way you have to do in Metamask, to be connected to a chain. So that reflects our kind of belief in the multi-chain future. So, and you can just step anytime.

time. Can we just, can you, I mean, we need to send this to Apple. Like, they need to hear that this is a pretty, pretty sleek user experience. And that the Uniswap Labs team is not a bunch of scammers. These guys are legit. They've built a fantastic, useful product. And this is an ask to Apple to release the app. I think there's a ton of people in the bankless community who actually want this. Yeah, I doubt anyone listens, but they should be. So definitely, we got some Apple listeners for sure. Cal, can you just maybe just run us through a bunch? I'm assuming there's like a bunch of small things that you want. Here's a list that I can come up in my head. Like a total, total wallet value chart over time. Like features like this.

What else is coming down the pipeline that you can just talk about? Yeah, great question, good question. Yeah. So, of course, like more analytics around assets. you know, for instance, you know, being able to see past buys and sells on a different asset, we want to improve the, actually the history a lot more. You know, we don't think you should always have to go to EtherScan if you don't want to. We want to be able to show transactions in a very legible way.

And the number one request we've got from early beta testers is a DAP browser. So look out for that soon. And I think there's some really other really deep, cool stuff that we've been exploring. that aligns with sort of, you know, I think the broader industry social vision for, for crypto around ENS names and connectivity and all that kind of stuff. But of course, we want to do the basics right soon. So and then, you know, the last thing too, just mentioned, I know we talked a little bit about this. I don't know how much time we have left, but just the world of smart contract wallets. Kind of little leak, you know, that we haven't said publicly before, but just the first few months of building this wallet, we did build a smart contract wallet.

as a prototype. And it's not something that we're ready to put out into the world. We want to be a part of the broader 4337 conversation and be working with the industry. But just that that's one of the reasons we really wanted to build this wallet is because we have those protocol engineers in-house who are like top of the top, right? And we have a lot to say about what that future might look like. Right. This was the other main big announcement that happened at Heath Denver at WallachCon was for ERC 4337,

not EIP 437, was that deployed as a smart contract on Ethereum, which opened up smart contracting enable capabilities. Cal, is that like that ERC, that smart contract on the layer one that's already deployed? Is that what is related to the future potential Uniswap smart contract wallet? Or is that a different set of innovations that also needs to come down the pipeline? Well, I would say that that is, you know, I think Uniswap, you know, the protocol and our involvement with like Ethereum and the dev community, we want to be really tight, right? We want to be contributing to that conversation and we want to be contributing to standards.

I think that we're not interested in like going and building our own, you know, a little bubble. That's why we open source the wallet. That's why we open source the web app and all the, you know, all the work that we do. And so if, you know, when we talk about smart contract wallets or whatever, definitely we would be part of that as well. Yeah. So zooming out just really quickly because we started this conversation as like, oh, what uniswap lab, service provider on top of, you know, you know, the uniswap protocol. We also talked about the design of Ether Delta to where we are today,

which the much more elegant design of Uniswap and all the other decks is. A little fun fact that we haven't covered in is like the Uniswap UX, the trading interface has been like forked a ton of times because it's seemingly the best kind of way to illustrate a decks. But Cal, can you just connect us with this product and the rest of what Uniswap Labs is doing? So like now we kind of have gotten a peek under the hood. We see what you're up to. We see what Uniswop Labs is to.

Let's zoom all the way back out and go back up to the Uniswop Labs level. What is Uniswop Labs doing? Like what is the North Star for Unswap Labs? Totally. So, you know, our company mission is to unlock universal ownership and exchange. That's sort of our top level, you know, guiding North Star. For us, that looks like, you know, iterating and sort of improving the very core, you know, marketplaces and access to assets, innovating on, you know, the protocol, innovating on other

things like the universal router, which gives like users great prices. And the cool thing recently has been like integrating our learnings about, sorry, they're getting a little deep, deep and technical stuff, but integrating learnings about tokens and bringing that into the world of NFTs so that all of a sudden digital assets are not siloed by, you know, their asset type, right? I should be able to swap any, any, ERC20 for any NFT and vice versa. And this world is one we believe in. And then alongside that is just, yeah, increasing, you know, access, right? And so that's what the wallet is about for us, you know, in addition to the other things I

said, about making it easier to use Ethereum, easier to use crypto. And we think we have a long way to go. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of innovation that still has to happen. But we want to be a platform that, you know, you can come to as a new user, you know, get started in under two minutes and have the same security, you know, not give away your security, right? You should have your rights. You should own your stuff. We will never give that up. We will always like maintain people's security and privacy as a first class piece of the system, but it should be as easy to use as any other, you know, system out there

with familiar logins, with familiar things like that. And so that's our vision. You know, we really want to make it easy and make it better. So on this vision, and the future of wallets that you see. So you were talking earlier about smart contract wallets, then we talked briefly about ERC 4337. I'm not yet sure if I understand ERC 4337, which is kind of this account abstraction standard on top of Ethereum that is now live and active.

Like it just seemed to come out of nowhere. And I'm curious as like, we haven't seen this on the user interface side sort of expressed. And so everything that we saw on uniswap wallet there with with erc 4337 or smart contract wallet future like what actually improves about the user experience yep yeah so right now we're billing we have it as an eOA and we started there because that's what most people have to do a yoA is externally owned account which simply put it's the opposite of a smart contract wallet it's the wallet that you probably have listener it's the

it's your C phrase thing yeah yep thanks for for helping me there um so So what will change in the smart contract wallet world? Okay. So there's a little bit of a complexity here is that like you said, this is a, it's not a change to Ethereum yet, right? But it may be in the future. But even in the world today, if I had a smart contract wallet, here's a few things that could happen.

First of all, I could log in with a phone number or email or really sign up with a phone number or email in addition to adding another layer of security like an on-device. like in the hardware security model on your device, right? And when I signed up for a wallet or log in with an email or a phone number, I would use basically a two-factor or passwordless loop to authenticate my wallet, my smart contract wallet basically. And in that way, I can actually secure a part of the smart contract wallet by using this loop and on device.

And the really innovative thing there is that the smart contract wallet basically is a system where if I want to do an action, as a user, all I need to do is sign with the security that I've added. So I might sign with my face ID plus my login account, right? And in that way, I can submit that signature to a relayer who will start to do things on my behalf. That could be things like recover the wallet, right? I could add either individuals or I could add other devices that helped me recover the wallet. I could also do things like pay for a transaction in any token that I have in my wallet, right? So I could even onboard with a phone number, top up through a Fiat HonorRamp with USC, and do my first transaction all in a very short time frame by delegating some of these actions to the relays, right? So I don't have to go through the process of buying ETH, for instance.

I don't have to go through the process all these complicated processes. So that's like a little story that will be possible in the future with these smart contract wallets in addition to other things. It kind of is possible now with ERC 4337. Yep, yep. You can actually try some of these wallets on chain right now. There's a few of them out there that I've done sort of the demos of this. And then the metaphor that I used to really explain because everyone explains smart contract

wallets in a different way. and they usually do it with explaining some certain story, right? Like, you know, those whole approvals before you trade a token on Unuswap, well, you can actually combine them together because of smart contract wallows. You know, like, gas is trading where like a different account can pay for your gas. You can do that with smart contract wallets. Everyone is like doing the whole, let's explain what a smart contract wallet is by feeling the different parts of the elephant.

The way that I've tried to explain like what the elephant actually is, is like think of an EOA, an externally owned account as a Bitcoin wallet, as in it's a dumb, stupid input output calculator wallet. No offense, Bitcoin, sorry. And then a smart contract wallet is an Ethereum wallet, as in it's a wallet with a chip in it. It's a Turing complete wallet. It's a general like smart contract enabled wallet.

And so your wallet is now smart. And most people like that, once they figure that out, their brain breaks and they realize that only one half of Ethereum is unlocked and smart contract wallet is like unlock the other half. This is just a metaphor that I use. My way of explaining that is like coming from the other direction of like a non-crypto native who's like seed phrases are dumb. Why do I need those?

This is stupid and complicated. This is why Venmo is better and crypto sucks. And this gives the us parity basically with a Venmo style account recovery wallet except it's completely self-sovereign, which is a huge design user experience upgrade. Yep. And, you know, I might have done the best job explaining it, but furthermore, like, what's really beautiful about the system is that depending on how you implement it, the user gets to choose their own security model, right? We have been talking about at Unswap, this idea of like a progressive wallet experience for a little bit, which is the idea that, like, when you first onboard and you put your first $100 in your wallet, you probably don't require the same amount of security you do as when you have $10,000 in the wallet, right? And users should be able to kind of like, we should be able to give you.

users that security and the upgrade the security over time as they get deeper into crypto into Ethereum without forcing them to deal with this very complex thing up front. And that's like a really key, I think that will be really key to making these things more intuitive. And what's really cool about this is it'll allow you to do things like over time set spending limits on the wallet. Over time, put specific NFTs in a specialized vault that the smart contract wallet owns and only, you know, be able to spend them with two-factor, real true two-factor authentication on an off-the app, right? Imagine I could do that with my most valuable NFT that I could only send it once I put that code in from Authi. I mean, that's pretty cool. This is hugely bullish overall.

I think that the overall theme, we're talking about the Uniswap wallet today, but the overall theme for crypto natives is we are entering the golden age of wallets. It's about to get a lot better. I barely even scratch the service. We talk a lot about like what's, holding crypto back from a scalability perspective. And for so long, it's been more transactions per second. If gas fees are too high, all of these things, that's still a factor that we're solving with layer twos. Another, like, less talked about reason we haven't been able to scale crypto is our user experience

ain't all that good, right? It still takes a lot of effort. Like, your mom can't use this. Grandma can't use this. I don't know if grandma will be able to use the Uniswap wallet, but, you know, your mom can, at least. And so this really is a huge upgrade And ultimately allows us to scale crypto out to more users

And more people going bankless is what we're all here for. Cal, thank you so much for this conversation. Really cool to see. And we're cheering you guys on in the conversation, let's call it, not a battle, conversation with Apple and your gatekeeping web two companies here. Thank you so much. It's pleasure. Oh, we promised one thing, though, before we let you go.

Can we show that QR code because I want to scan it. I don't have the UDiscop wallet yet. So I'm going to erase everybody. So give us the context. Are there 100 invites for this thing right now? I believe so. I believe this link is going to be 100. So scan away.

And then like I mentioned earlier, follow us on Twitter, get on the Discord. I think we don't have that many more. There's a cap to how many people we can actually add to the test flight. But, you know, we'll get you on. Yeah. Hold a steady. We'll get you on. So then you scan it and then when you view it now, start testing.

So yeah, what that'll do is bring you to a webpage that says, you know, start testing. You have to have, you have to be on iOS to start. And you have to install a test flight app, which is an Apple app that you may already have installed. Once that's installed, you just hit get and it'll download the Uniswap wallet and you'll have it in your hands. I got it. Only 99 left now.

Maybe less. Thanks so much, Cal. We will include links in the show notes to this, but get it well, it's hot. Not too many downloads left. That's it, guys. Bankless listeners, got to end with risk and disclaimers, of course. None of this was financial advice.

Eth is risky. Crypto is risky. So is defy. So are wallets. You could lose what you put in. But we're headed west. This is the frontier. It's not for everyone,

but we're glad you're with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot. Thank you, guys.