Barbell Shrugged - 152- CrossFitter Falls Off Cliff Into Fire and Lives to Tell About It

Episode Date: November 26, 2014

This week on Barbell Shrugged, we interview Steve Heidman, a man who fell off a cliff, into a fire, and lived to tell the story. Hey, this is Rich Froning, you're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. That's pretty loud now. I turned up all these to their max. If you want it down, turn it down. I'm gonna turn mine down just a little bit. I have sensitive ears these to their max. If you want it down, turn it down. I'm going to turn mine down just a little bit. I have sensitive ears. A little hot. Welcome to Barbell Strugged.

I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson, Chris Moore, CTP behind the camera. We have traveled to Phoenix, Arizona to attend the and actually participate in the Rush Club event here. If you don't know what that is, what is it? RushClub.com? RushClubNation.com. RushClubNation.com. Check that out. So we're going to be capturing some interviews here,

hanging out, having a good time. Our first guest that we've snagged is Steve Heidemann. Welcome, Steve, man. Hey, guys. Good to see you. Good to be here. We brought Steve in because AJ was like, sometimes when people go,

oh, this guy's got a cool story, I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Skepticism at first. And he's like, yeah AJ was like, sometimes when people go, oh, this guy's got a cool story. I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Skepticism at first. And he's like, yeah, this guy, like he lost a lot of weight. And I was like, uh-huh. All right.

A lot of people lose a lot of weight. Former fatty. Go ahead. And then he got more into your story. I was like, holy shit. Yeah. Like, yeah, let's talk to this guy. Yeah.

Let's get into it. You had like a Rasputin style death almost. Kind of. Yeah. I mean, it was reckless and then rebirth, right? I am the Phoenix from Phoenix. You want to tell everybody what happened? Yeah.

Well, hang on. Before we go any further, make sure you go to barbellstrug.com, sign up for the newsletter, and we're going to post up really cool information to you. You'll be so amazed. Man. So amazed. God. If you're not happy with it, you know.

Go somewhere else. Why are you here? No, I'm just kidding. So when I first heard what happened to you, I thought about, do you watch family guy yes you know you know like the epic chicken fights that peter has that's what i thought when i heard your story i was like fuck it was like one bad thing after another after another it was like an epic family guy fight so cartoon almost so uh flashback to 2009 yeah um and i'm i'm at my sister-in-law's wedding, and I see pictures of myself, and I'm like, holy cow, man, I'm huge.

I stepped on the scale. I was 300 pounds. Yeah. What's your height? 5'8". So I was... You weren't canning it so solidly. I was...

Oh, no. I was like a mini fridge, right? They called me the dorm fridge, right? The dorm fridge. So I knew I had to do something about it. So, you know, I've never... I had never been a gym guy traditionally. I mean, you know, I lifted weights in high school and stuff like that for football and track and whatnot, but never, never enjoyed the routine. The exercise.

No, I liked the exercise, but I never liked like the monotony of the routines. Right. And so I was like, I can't go to a gym. I'm never going to stick with it. What can I do? And I started hiking. And, you know, cause Arizona is one of the beautiful things about Arizona is we got some of the best hiking in the country, you know, if not the world, depending on, you know, your preferred biome, but that's a whole

nother story. So, um, so I started hiking in a few years. I just got into it, you know, every weekend it was Friday night, boom out in the desert, come back Sunday night. And, you know, for several years and started to really get into rope, you know, canyoneering and moving through space with ropes and things like that. And one of the things I'd never done was do a grand, a trip where I had to actually drop a rope, pull it, and then drop another rope, multiple descents, right? It basically happens when you head down a canyon, you're heading down waterfalls, you know, stream courses.

And at certain points there's waterfalls right so my wife and i went out one morning to um practice some rope retrieval techniques and we climbed to the top of the rock it's 150 foot rock it's a well-known rock out here called coon bluff that everybody down by the salt river that a lot of people uh practice rock climbing on got to the top of the rock no problem that was easy and uh then once we got to the top we set our anchor and and uh started to my wife jean started to go and um she's like stopped she's like i can't do it i'm like what do you mean you can't do it she's like well i just i just i can't she was so afraid for some reason got a bad heebie-jeebie vibe yeah exactly and so i'm like okay okay, well, you pussy,

I'll go first. Well, there's a blind drop, which is not, you know, the most comforting thing in the world. And so I went and I started heading down the wall and I looked down for my landing and I saw, you know, I was about 80 feet down at the time. And I saw that there was a boulder right in my drop path. Right. So I was like, okay, well, rather than do what I should have done, which is wrap onto the boulder, reset, and then wrap off right to the ground, I started to get cute with it. So I came down the wall a little bit more. Did you know you were being cute at the time?

Yeah, I did. And I didn't have a – I mean, this is pure human error, guys. Like anybody listening or watching, like, you know, this is not a gear failure. This was a me failure. Right, right. I love how the cues were there, like, is this a good is not a gear failure. This was a me failure. Right. Right. I love how the cues were. They're like, is this a good idea, coach?

We're doing it. Yeah, right. We're doing it. In your mind, the conversation's happening. Like, no, I'm going to be cute with this. All right. All right. No matter what you do, don't land on the boulder.

The universe was screaming at me like all morning. Just a whole bunch of things. Like, don't do this. Right? Right. I'd had the stomach flu all week. Both ends. The worst I'd had in a long time. So was just depleted so you were your lightest ever

probably yeah exactly prior to the accident right uh then i so i rather so i started to kind of swing my rope a little bit move across the fifth wall just being lazy stupid and i swung and i was what to paying too much attention to the boulder below me and not enough attention to the wall. And there was a little concave area that, you know, I didn't realize that the wall didn't, wasn't flat all the way across. It kind of jut in. So as I'm watching the boulder, I thought I was stepping into wall. I was stepping into air. Right. And so when I stepped, I had, and I did something really stupid, which was low, release my lower anchor to swing.

Right. Which is you never do. You never grab the top of the rope. You always grab the bottom of the rope, obviously, because that you're above that. And hopefully you're not going to lose yourself. So I grabbed the top of the rope.

I stepped in the air and I just went, bam. Yep. Four stories in three seconds. Just doom. 40 feet down to the ground. Does anything occur to you right then? Oh, fuck.

It's like you were like, you're a whole fucking life probably. Yeah, right. Oh, fuck. It was too fast for my whole life. You really had a moment where you're like, I'm going to die. No, I'm going to die.

I thought I was going to die. I had a moment where I was simulated where I could die. Like, shit, this could be dangerous if it wasn't for a ride or something. But I've never been like, oh, shit, this is it. Yeah.

Like, it's over. Yep. And that's what went through my mind. I'm going to die. And then I really didn't have time for anything else. Like when I look at, when I think back on the incident, right, I try to picture it second by second

and all I can see is black and my, like blackness and my orange rope. My rope was orange. That's all I can see in my head. Until I remember hitting the ground, like in looking up. Because when I landed, I landed feet down,

right? And then went down to my knee, butt. So what happened, which actually the guy said probably saved my life and I landed in a fire pit.

So there was lots of ash, an active fire pit, but we'll get that to that in a second. I heard it. Don't blow it. You landed on fire. That's called a teaser.

I landed on fire. So what happened was they say that basically it was like hitting the ground with the force of being hit by a car going 60 miles an hour. And it traveled, apparently the shock traveled up my legs, right? And right at my T12 vertebrae and burst it. And I got bone in the spinal cord and I cracked my T11 vertebrae in half. And I'm at the bottom of a rock with a few people around. Pretty hard to evac, right?

And you're on fire. And I'm on fire. Which I didn't know at the time because I couldn't feel my legs. What are the odds that you fall off a mountain and you land in a fire? Exactly, right? Jesus. If you're going to be on fire, you might as well be paralyzed and not be able to see exactly like all things

silver lining all things being equal trying to be positive here it's a good thing so yeah so I'm at the bottom of the rock and I don't

you know pain is bad I was gonna try to get up thank God there was a guy there that was a no bro you should totally stay down

right what he said was you're lucky you're not dead so just stay there and he got a hold of, he immediately called, you know, 911 was the Boy Scout. He was a scout leader. And there was a troop of Boy Scouts there. Right?

So the Boy Scouts basically, you know, I can picture it like, he's like, all right, young man, we're going to have a lot of fun today. We've got some scenarios set up for you for your first state merit badge. All of a sudden, the mountain has turned everything. Yeah, the fat guy falls up behind me, right? So, yeah, man, the Boy Scouts, local troops saved my life. They're like, called the, they got the ambulance coming like immediately. And somebody had to go up and get my wife. And they're like, you know, your husband, well, I was, she wasn't my wife at the time.

She was my girlfriend several years. She's like, your husband's at the bottom of the thing. He fell, right? She's like, oh, fuck, he's still alive. Okay, that's good. Oh, she wasn't there

when you fell. No, she couldn't, and like I said, it was a blind drop, so she couldn't see anything. She didn't know anything. It's 140 feet, so it's not,

you know, it's not that, it's not short, right? That's probably better for her. She has fucking nightmares about watching you fall. Oh, yeah. She's,

she would not have wanted, she would not have wanted that burden on her shoulders for sure. Reminds me of that movie, Cliff you fall. Oh, yeah. She's... The landing and all that. She would not have wanted that burden on her shoulders, for sure. Reminds me of that movie Cliffhanger. Yeah, that's right. The beginning of that movie. Oh, yeah, that's right. He drops the girl and he just watches her fall. It's about that Sylvester Stallone movie. That's right, dude. With John Lithgow.

Oh, yeah, I remember that now. Wakes up in cold Stallone sweats for the rest of his life. That's right. I can't do it anymore. I can't do it anymore. I can't do it anymore. I can't do it anymore. It's too much pain, coach. No, no.

So it seems like you made, to sum up, a lot of mistakes, a lot of dumb shit. And then the universe did bail you out magnificently by having you fall into the care of very prepared young children. Yes, exactly. Very prepared. Thrifty, loyal, brave, trustworthy, reverent. So you feel like maybe the embers cushioned your fall a little bit? That's what I'm saying. That's what I think, too, exactly.

Yeah? It's like, because a couple of months ago, a group of rescue climbers was out, and they fell 10 feet less than I did, and they didn't make it. I mean, I don't want, I guess, 10 feet less, I don't want to say, like, ooh, 10 feet less, but. Well, all you need is a little bit of damp. But I'm just saying how lucky I am, right? Yeah, right.

Like, I get goosebumps all the time when I think of, when I see other things. Let alone the fact that I didn't get a complete spinal cord injury. Well, actually, apparently they thought I did, but I got lucky. Like I'm one of the guys that I had, in my chart, in my medical stuff, it says complete spinal cord injury. They assumed it would. Like how would it survive that injury? That's what, I mean, you know, I don't know. I've done, like I said, I've done everything right.

Like, I immediately got into... Well, we'll get to that. But, so anyway... What was your weight? You said you started... Yeah, I was probably 230 at the time. 220. So you'd gone from 300 to 230.

Yeah, so I felt, you know, I kind of felt... That's still really big. You weren't like a spry mountain climber. When I look at my pictures, like, I felt spry, obviously, right? Because you were less fat. Exactly. And somebody who's good fat himself, I know, it's like, you're still fat. Yeah, it's being the best ballerina in Des Moines, Iowa.

You know, who gives a shit? I mean, so, but I felt good about it. And, you know, which actually maybe had something to do with, you know, I don't know, maybe could I have held myself if I was lighter? I don't like to, I don't do what ifs, but I see the issues, right? So yeah, I'm at the bottom of the mountain, and the ambulance comes. Then they call the chopper, and I get choppered in. They shoot me with morphine.

Well, wait. That's great. I totally skipped over the fire. That was the best part. That's the part that everybody thinks is the craziest. That's what caught my attention. He fell into a fire. Nobody knew it was a fire.

They thought it was out, right? Because they'd covered it with sand. And they thought they'd put it out. Well, that's what I'm saying. They might have got their first aid merit badge, but the fire safety merit badge, yeah. Smokey would be pissed. Yeah.

We need to take those badges away from those kids. I think there may be a ceremonial stripping. You shit kids need to get your stools together. The ceremonial stripping. Now look down. Don't look me in the eyes. Don't look me in the eyes. So I'm like, all of a sudden, I start to smell smoke.

And I'm like, guys. Something smells good. And I look, and I start, I go like this. And all of a sudden, smoke starts to billow up from under me. I'm like, holy cow. Guys, I'm in a fire. And they're like, no, that I go like this, and all of a sudden, smoke starts to billow up from under me, and I'm like, holy cow. Guys, I'm in a fire. And they're like,

no, that's just the nerve tingling. It feels like burning because of the injury you have, but I'm like, no. These are EMTs telling you this. These are EMTs telling me this.

You're not Boy Scouts. Exactly, no, this is not Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts are like, you're nerve endings. Yeah, right.

Here's what you gotta understand about neurological injuries. Kids chewing Laffy Taffy telling you what's wrong. Here's what you gotta understand about neurological injuries. Got a badge in chewing Laffy Taffy. Here's what you got to understand about neurological injuries. So I'm like, no, I'm in a fire. Literally, and I start to blow, and all of a sudden, a flame.

And he's like, holy shit. So yeah, they pick up my leg, and it's third degree burns. Like right here, which I got my braces on. I don't have any. I got everything to the knees, basically. My hips and glutes have come in last. I'm weak there. Yeah.

But, yeah, this is the remains of the day. Oh, nice. Ew. Yeah. Actually, they say in the hospital, they said this was my worst. Like, once I got through the spinal stabilization surgery and didn't get spinal shock and all that stuff, they're like, this was the worst thing. They were the most worried about

that. Is that something that can get infected bad enough where they might have to amputate your leg? Were they worried about that? Yes. Not only, because it was, I mean, it was like, you know, it was grilled hamburger. Charred black. It was ridiculous. I got pictures if you guys want to see them. Not on me, man. Were your legs fractured pretty bad too? No. The only thing that

was fractured was my back. Yeah, dude. I mean, that's what I'm saying saying i figured your femurs would just be like incredibly lucky incredibly lucky i am yeah i drink milk you know it could be though hey listen though because you like again we're we have some camaraderie here because we're fatties right yeah i grew up as a fat kid too drink a lot of milk was always a little bit overweight but it's also always training heavy and having doing a lot of high intensity things and bounding and jumping and running and sprinting i've never had a fracture in my life so maybe that had big play into how you I was also always training heavy and doing a lot of high-intensity things and bounding and jumping and running and sprinting. I've never had a fracture in my life.

So maybe that had a big play into how you survived that. Exactly, because you think about the bone density you need for a 300-pound frame, right? Yeah, I have a huge skeletal system. Exactly, me too. At my peak, I was 370 pounds. I've always said I was big-boned, and I think literally that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is. I remember when we got our bone density tested, your bone density was way beyond me and Mike's.

The standard for normal is like a one. I don't even know what the scale is exactly. Yeah, normal is one. Zero to one is osteopenia, and below zero is osteoporosis or something like that. And we had like a 1.4, and you had like a 1.7, which was way beyond anyone else that got tested.

Yeah, I've never had a fracture in my life. We got DEXA scanned. I haven't ever fallen off a cliff into a fire before. Funny story. But I have dropped 900 pounds on myself before. I had no injury, so I'm pretty tough too, asshole. Yeah, I was going to say. So fuck you, man.

I actually did break my ankle when I was a kid. Another falling accident. I jumped out of my deer stand when I was in high school. A little bit of an impetuous guy. I shot the deer and I was excited. I was like, ah, screw the last 10 steps. And all of a sudden I was like, ooh, this is too high. We had a guy that fell out of a deer stand and got totally fucked up.

He collapsed all a bunch of his lungs, broke a bunch of his ribs, broke his hip. Did he break his back too? Who are we talking about? Joe. Some guy. Oh, yeah. He was out there all by you. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He almost like, he was out there like all by himself. Oh, it's no joke. I think he never, there's a lot of force. People almost didn't find him. He was lucky some hunters walked by. He couldn't stand up. Every time he tried to stand up, he would pass out from pain. He was just laying in the woods, fucked up.

Some things just don't want to happen to see him and take him back. You got to be careful with high force situations. Like Joe Rogan says, you just don't want to get punched in the face. Also, you just don't want to fall. You don't want to fall. Any kind of fall is so bad. You gotta be,

the older you get, you gotta, I get so paranoid about being really careful, especially my kids. Falls are really tough. There's a lot of force that's going on.

And the thing about falling is once you're airborne, you have no control over which way, very little control over which way you land. If you've got a long way to fall,

you might. That's a good point. I remember. If you've got a long way to fall, you might. That's a good point. That's a country album right there. Long way to fall. By Mike Pleasant. There's no thought process that's going to save you. You're going down and you're just going to land. I love the moment where you're like,

oh, shit. You have enough time to know that you just totally, yep. The next part is pain. And the next month your life is going to be turmoil. I think the furthest I've ever fallen was like 15 feet. And I remember just like thinking, oh, I should have hit the ground already. You're like,

you're like, oh, oh shit. Like, I'm still not there. It's like, you're like, oh,

well I've passed this point now. This is really, it's like the Wile E. Coyote cartoons where he'd fall a long way and he'd, you know, he'd keep falling and he'd like look at his watch you know but uh um yeah man it's it's uh the falling is it's scary that's actually one of the um my core principles as i was recovering was don't be afraid to fall right no because as a spinal cord injury guy i to walk i i'm still i fell last night at the way right uh i fall all the time i

fall multiple times a day um it's just part of it now i've gotten better i know how to fall like i've gotten better at it but yeah man it's once i go like if i go backwards it's i'm at the mercy of gravity did we even point out that you're you're walking at all yeah did we say that yet no yeah we didn't but yes i i'm going to recovery right yeah yeah we'll talk about the recovery after the break cool yeah but last night yeah he's a aj announced oh i've got some tickets for beers and then i hear the bang i'm like man he was trying to get those liches man what's your go-to i was like oh wait he's he's got canes yeah that's right oh something's going on with that guy yeah what's your goat what do you say to you

when people see you see you fall what do you say to you? I thought you were just an alcoholic. Gravity check. When people see you fall, what do you say to them? Gravity check. Work's over here. You guys good over there? Something like that. Obviously, it's like why... It's a strong message of like,

you know, failure is a thing that just happens. That's exactly right. It's going to... Like the best just fuck up in embarrassing ways all the time. It's not, you know... You need to yell out gravity check

more often in all your areas of life. I love that, dude. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Chris is right on. And that's the thing, like, you know, yeah. Yeah, Chris is right on. And that's the thing. Like, you know, the look of panic on people's faces. Like, when you watch me walk, you obviously know that I have issues, right? And it's, you know, the injured ape syndrome, right?

Like, immediately people, like, rush in and the look of terror and panic on people's face. And I just like to let them know that, look, I've chosen this. I've accepted this. I know this is part of the life that I'm going to lead now. It's okay. I like to help myself up because you might not always be here.

Right, right. But yeah, it's like, you do seem very positive and accepting about this. Like, was there a period of time where you were like, fuck, like super down on yourself? It has to get dark. Like, borderline depressed.

Yeah, did it get dark and then you came out of it? How was that process? Let's take a break and we'll talk about that. God, Mike, you're always the teasing. Cliffhanger.

I love it. Cliffhanger.com. Nope, pun. This is Andrea Ager and you're listening to Barbell Shrug. For the video version, go to barbellshrug.com. Barbell Shrug

is brought to you by you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrugged.com and sign up for the newsletter. Oh, and we're back here with Steve Heidemann. Good to be here. We are going to dig into the darkness. The darkness. Travel down the river of doubt into the heart of darkness.

Yeah, so I got to the hospital. My first surgery was the same day. I had a second. That stabilized my spine, right? They cut me here, like all the way down to my ribs, took my guts out. Oh, God. I saw Kevin's podcast you guys did. Like a fish.

He's got the same level of injury that I do. So immediately when he got hurt, I felt a really kinship with him. So I've been kind of following the story. And same thing, man. They took my guts out. They took the whole thing out. They put my spine back together. I even forgot about that part. As you were describing, I'm like,

at that point you are completely fundamentally broken. Your guts are outside your body. Your spine is crushed. That's your core of your being. Yeah, when I've seen frogs get squished, they look like me. Yeah, like when you're playing it bad. Yeah, exactly. Did you get to see pictures or anything?

I don't have surgery pictures. I should ask if they have them. I don't know, man. Oh, boy. I'd like to see my guts, but I do have some fairly gross pictures. You've got to understand, my hands, if you see my finger, it doesn't open all the way because the rope

burns. You can kind of see right there. I call this my witch finger with the kids in the neighborhood. I'm like, I'll curse you with this thing. You had the worst burns possible. Yeah, my fingers looked like bacon. So you just, as you were falling, you were looking at that orange rope

and just probably just. Actually, one of the things I thought when I first woke up was, damn it, why didn't I wear gloves? You know? And the doctor was like.

Well, you already discussed how you made all the possible mistakes. Yeah, right. The doctor was like, if you'd worn gloves, you probably would have sawed your fingers off because you were traveling so fast

by the time you would have, the gloves would have like slowed down that, you know, it wouldn't have had the pain. So you'd be sliding even faster and you'd be like a saw, right? Rip them off. Yeah, right. I hadn't considered that. I'm glad, you know, dude, it's hard enough. You got lucky, dude. Listen, I say, I got something, something, the universe was very kind to me that day.

Yeah, I'm inclined to think you're here for a reason now. Well, I don't know about destiny and all that. But, you know, listen, I'm a guy that takes a choice at a time. They sewed up the back. They put the guts back in. I guess they got the top where it's supposed to be and the bottoms where it's supposed to be. Yep, put that together. How's the poop situation?

You know, it's tougher. It's a lot tougher. Because, you know, one of the things, like, the spinal cord injury, most people think you can't walk okay. They don't think about all the secondary conditions, right? Like, you know, you've got bladder bowel nerves or sexual function issues. That's going to happen. Dude, I didn't have my, I mean, I didn't have sexual function for a year and a half. Like, it was the worst thing.

It was hard. It was really hard. Well, it's who you are as a person. It's part of it. It's one of the fundamental things you are. Well, I mean, until you don't have it, I'm sure there's... You go through life never not having it,

so I'm sure not having it kind of changes maybe just who you are to a degree, right? Well, and the definition of what sex is, too, right? Like, you know, I mean, we still had sex. It just wasn't my penis and her vagina right it was you know you guys we have fun creative yeah get creative right yeah now thank god i got it back like i mean good god man high five yeah right i mean like i say lucky all the way around now i worked every day for five hours a day i mean it was crazy so anyway day one

they put my backpack together. Day two was a spinal stabilization surgery where they had to cut me open and they had to take, you know, titanium. They packed my bone, my T12, because it was burst open into a titanium tube, like a little rebuild bone thing. And then fuse me from T10 to L2, right? So I've got titanium from T10 to L2 and rods in my back where my back is one, from that point is one. So, you know, flexibility,

like, you know, I've worked a lot on it, but, you know, bending is weird. I like bend my top back and my bottom back. So there's... You learn different strategies for being able to bend a little bit?

Oh, yeah. Like, can you get around it a little bit and, like, kind of... Yeah, like, you know what I equate it to is, like, it's like going through puberty again. You know, like, your body's awkward and you're all gangly and shit and you like you're learning how to use everything yeah you can learn how to use everything all over again basically wow right developing a whole neural and that's where crossfit has been really helpful and

we'll talk about that a little bit later but those those constantly varied functional movements to learn to learn how to work my muscles together. Yeah. It's like I'm fascinated by how your spine would kind of congeal back together in a new form and restabilize. Listen, it took me like – it took over a year and a half for me to feel like one whole person. It actually wasn't until I started doing CrossFit and, you know, Coach AJ Richard at CrossFit Mesa took me in and helped me adapt movements. We start with reverse hypers and I like did reverse hypers and black band squats. It's not nearly the same, man, but anytime people have an injury to the back

or they lose a lot of weight, or a guy who works at Faction, he had a lot of weight loss out of surgery and some tissue removed. Anytime there's destabilization of your abs and your spine, I think people need to really bake in an extended period of time where you're thinking, look, everything's going to be weird and unstable. There's going to be a relearning phase where your only focus is going to be

just like standing up straight, learning how to get air in your belly again, learning how to feel the spaces the right way and be stable, where to get tension. The first of my lost weight I experienced is I went from 370 to 230 in a year. Holy cow. I went from squatting 975 in a year. Holy cow. Holy cow. I went from squatting 975 pounds to squatting 300 pounds. I didn't realize it until I'd done the dumb thing.

Sometimes mistakes only are visible on the other side of the fall. I realized I had to take this on a different way, go much slower. Because you lose stability, you lose everything. You lose your core, you've got nothing. A man's strength and a person's strength is spine and belly's all here like and that's what i've learned now is that my core is so thick and like packed in there because i do so much you know because i get to use my core because i didn't have glutes for so long that i had to use my lower back and core to hold me up right so i'm like engaging my my uh my core muscle like you mentioned how fatiguing that is because you're having to

engage all the time otherwise otherwise i like fall over backwards right so that took a whole new motor path exactly my i mean you know neuroplasticity it's a beautiful thing about the human body guys is you know you fuck things up in one channel it'll it'll dial until it finds something if there's something there and you work at it that's what the science has shown us like exercise-based recovery is everything right right? Repetition, repetition, repetition. Like what happened was, you know, you asked me if I was, before the break, if I went into darkness. And the answer is not really. I mean, but I've never been,

I'm a glass half full person, like maybe to a fault, right? You'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with this guy? But I tend to always, I'm a, you know, I'm a vehement defender of the silver lining. I always have been. And I had one day where the first day in outpatient,

because inpatient rehab, dude, they dope you up so much. I was on Dilaudid, which by the way is a great fucking drug. Oh my God. It made me a little sick, but dude,

it took all the pain away. Yeah, people who say, just say no to drugs, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You need to shut up. Exactly. Fill your ass with mountains, see how you like drugs then.

So really the first time I was clear, right, was in outpatient rehab at Barrows Neurological. And that first day, my wife and I call it day one shit because, you know, we had many day ones, right? We start over, start over, start over. Day one was terrible. Like, you know, it was dark, right? I couldn't. we've had many day ones right we start over start over start over day one was terrible like i you know it was dark right i couldn't look you your first goal is to be able to sit up and you got this freaking turtle shell on you know that keeps your spine together and then you don't have any hips or glutes or anything below your waist so you're like falling over how are you gonna how

are you gonna keep your that's where core comes in right so you're and you're all cut up so you're like you know it's incredibly painful then the first thing you're supposed to learn from that is how to get from your bed or whatever you're on to your wheelchair with this board they call it a transfer board oh yeah right that you like slide across and i mean I couldn't even do that then right and it was just it was so the mountain was so big you know it's like being at the bottom being at the bottom of Everest and being like and being exhausted and being like how am I gonna do this yeah and yeah I mean I was down and then the recreation director Gus Gus lazier who now runs this beautiful we actually were really lucky in Phoenix,

there's this thing called the SPOF at the Disability Empowerment Center that is one of only two facilities in the country that has fully adaptive sports equipment. It's a beautiful facility. Oh, amazing, yeah. But he came in and he's like, you know, your life isn't over, here's the things you can do.

And dude, I just broke down and cried. Well, do you find that like, there's that oh shit moment when, like, everybody goes through challenges and stuff. Like, sometimes things get hard. Like, I had a tough time at work. Everybody, yeah. Like, work was really tough.

Yeah, I know. It's hard. And, like, when you break up with your girlfriend, it's hard. And, like, sometimes these big milestones and the edges on your life are hard. But sometimes you get hit with something like, I don't know how tomorrow was going to happen right now. Yeah. Until you have that kind of moment,

loss of a loved one, really intense injury, big life turmoil, big life shakeup, you get hit with immediate, oh shit, nothing's going to be the same again. But I think what's amazing about that is, I think what I've learned in big shakeups in my life is that that big moment of fear, it's paralyzing if you view it the wrong way.

Literally, for me. I think it's more like that that big moment of fear, it's paralyzing if you view it the wrong way. Like, it's supposed to be like... Literally, for me. I think it's more... I learned to view it more like... Yeah, sorry. No, it's good. No, but it's a great metaphor because you're right. But I think it's amazing

when you realize... You turn it on its head and you realize the fear and shock of this is not like a punishment or like a, it's over, kid, or here's a barrier

or here's the reasons why it's not going to happen. It's more of like stop and really realize now just what you are and what's important to you all this other bullshit probably is not uh now something really important has happened this is uh what is now important to you it's like a shake-up it totally you know it adapt and overcome yeah i mean that's just it and uh one of the things that speaking to your point one of the things that i've one of the big lessons I learned from this injury is that pain is relative.

Suffering is relative. Oh, because we have a huge potential for suffering. A lot of people have done amazing things. If you'd have told me five years ago that I'd be able to live well past a spinal cord injury, I probably would have said, I don't know how. Your ego would be outrageous. Well, first of all, it's never going to happen to a guy like me.. First of all, it's never going to happen to a guy like me.

But truth be known, it was always going to happen to a guy like me. I'm an accident person. I push it. I push it all the time. And sometimes I get burned. Sometimes I go over the edge. So that's a really important point. Because people say to me a lot, even my wife will say,

anything that's happening to me in my life, it seems like it's not worth it when I think about what you have to go through. And I'm like, you guys, that has nothing to do with it. You know, pain is relative. Suffering is relative. Just because you haven't been stretched as much. My new 10, like, you know, in the hospital they rate 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. My old 10 is like my current 2.

Right. Dude, I would kill for my, you know, you're 35 years old, you start to get a little, you know, creaks in the back and I was like, ah, man, everything, you know. I would kill for those pains right now.

There's like, there's the edges of what you can tolerate and there's the edges of what you can do. Right. Creatively and like training wise. Well, and you can grow into it. Like, you know, hypertrophy, you know,

there's muscle hypertrophy, there's also spirit hypertrophy, there's also attitude hypertrophy. You just gotta work it. It's a muscle. Iron sharpens's also attitude hypertrophy. You've just got to work it. It's a muscle. Iron sharpens iron. Simple as that, right? I always tell people,

my brother always had a fish tank in his bedroom when we were growing up. He used to skateboard and shit, but he had a caiman crocodile. I used to go, but what are you going to do when this crocodile gets to be the fucking crocodile size, bro?

What are you playing on? What's your plan for that? He's like like don't worry if we keep it in that cage it'll never grow you keep it in a small thing

it'll always be a small creature is that true yeah only fish and certain creatures but humans are a lot like that

you will only grow into the size of the aquarium you're in so if you think you're strong and you're surrounded by people who squat

300 pounds truth okay well you're strong here it's a very small aquarium bro you go to Westside Barbell you're going to grow rapidly or you'll die like the little minnows in the walmart fish

tanks that does desperate creatures who have no place and they'll belong you either fill up the space or you don't but that but guy like you so you've you filled up a pain space yeah right dare i like i would be the guy who would not ask the dangling question i know the answer to but like you had the pain this profoundly terrible experience and that stretched all your edges for what you you believed you could tolerate and survive so now how do you view common distresses in life and the big picture questions you know for the most part i mean we all have days right and i even you know we all have days but pretty much all my fears have been extinguished except one and that is that the gift I've been given,

which is the ability to move below my level of injury, it's long, slow, hard, pain, you know, deep mud going. But if I squander this gift that I've been given, I've got so many buddies that are in a chair right now that would kill for the opportunity that I've been given. And I, like, every every day that's what keeps me that's what i'm afraid of that's a good fear that's like the fear a parent feels like i wake up every day i drop my kid off at school it's just so it's like a beautiful thing and a scary thing

it's like it's out my control is gone like i i desperately don't want to do something stupid to let this kid down it happens all over the place was like you're the fear like on the show like we're always scared shitless that the next thing we do is like is it good as we can make it like fuck

we're always being really harsh on ourselves but the fear of like letting people down keeps you pushing to try to do more it keeps you going in the right direction

it's a good thing to have it's not a bad fear it keeps prodding you forward comfort and complacency are the enemies of evolution. I mean, you know, self-growth, self-discovery, self-awareness, right? Innovation, for that matter.

Yeah, or anything, right? I mean... Progress in any form. Yeah, bureaucracy is the death of everything else, you know? So you're 100% right. Actually, you brought up suffering a minute ago, and I heard a good quote a while back, and I'm not exactly sure who originally coined this, but they said that suffering is pain

times resistance. And you don't seem like you're resisting this anymore. We already said earlier that you're, you've become very accepting of your situation. Granted, it's a painful thing to have happen to you and you, there's probably a lot of pain still associated with it. But I think in a lot of ways, because you're more accepting compared to other people in your same situation, you don't have to suffer as much, even though you're experiencing a lot of pain in this situation.

I like that and you're right. And one of the quotes that kept me going constantly when things were really hard was the Lance Armstrong quote, that pain is temporary. It may last for a day, a week, a month, or even a year. I thought pain is temporary, especially if you have drugs. But eventually, it will go away and be replaced by something else.

But if I quit, it'll last forever. In other words, if you don't push through it, you'll always hurt. Actually, I was talking to a friend of mine. He's talking about doing a 10-day Vipassana retreat. Meditation. It's a type of meditation. I figured, yeah. He said it's 10 days of silence

and a few lessons and a lot of just you being in meditation. For a lot of people, it's harder than a 10-day Navy SEAL camp. Well, I know a lot of guys who've been through a lot of hard stuff that go and do a 10-day Vipassana and they say that's the hardest thing.

Right. I used to do a lot of sensory I used to do a lot of uh sensory deprivation deprivation floating and the same thing like the first first hour isn't you're just like yeah so I totally yeah I've done a couple tanks myself but uh yeah so that you know he talked about like he's sitting there and every they did like an hour straight and he said that the focus is on the body. And every injury he's ever had, he could start feeling it in his body. You know, the tweaked back, the bad ankle, like everything is just like all these, just alarms were going off, like move, because you're not supposed to move.

Like you're in half lotus, and you're just sitting there. And he's just like, move, move, move. And he sits there. All of a sudden, he saw the vision of the Buddhist monk that had caught himself on fire. Yeah, the self-affirmation guy. Yeah. During the Tibet protest. Yeah, he said that all of a sudden that just came into his mind. And then when that happened, he goes, if he can sit there.

On fire. I can sit here in this room in southern california it's not like you're in a mountain top in tibet there pal right right he's like i can sit here for an hour and he said that um once he got past that resistance of of the pain and accepted the pain it then actually turned into bliss yes and so uh this happens with people emotionally too a lot of times i see people who you know they something's happening in their life and they're just they're having a hard time dealing with change or something and it's not the change that's hurting them resistance to resistance to the change and they're losing their minds yeah

and they're having a hard time yeah i was like if they and i feel i'm like if they could just let go of that resistance, then. I think what it really is like is like you are, you are clinging to a rock in the middle of a stream. Yeah. Letting go is terrifying,

but you're never going to stop the flow of water. That is your life. That's right. Your resistance to it is causing all the pain. You got to let go and trust that,

because like, I think CTP and I brainstormed back, you still got to like work to get out of the way of other rocks. It's not like you just let go of like, destiny will take me. No, you still work hard. You have to let go and trust that. Because I think CTP and I brainstormed, you still got to work to get out of the way of other rocks. It's not like you just let go and destiny will take me. No, you still work hard.

You have to navigate the river. You got to feel for where you're going. There's a path that's, you're getting drawn in some direction. I'm sure now you're being drawn in a very specifically different direction than where you were before you fell. Absolutely. What are you up to now that's so different than what you were doing before? You know, my life kind of revolves around getting better all the time, right, physically.

You guys think about this, like the gains you make in the gym, you know, multiply that by seven, and that's how long it takes to make the same or comparable gain when you've got, you know, your nervous system is 30%, 40%, 50%. They're not the same rates of adaptation, right? Rates of adaptation, you're also talking about fiber engagement takes a lot longer because you're talking about less nerve nodes to pull those fibers, right? So you're like 10, 20, 40. No, you're like 10, 15, 20. Signals are all weak.

Yep. So actually, I got a question for you. So you said earlier that since you're using your upper body for everything, like you get, you get much more tired because everything is so much more difficult just to move around.

But at the same time you're not using your lower body. So even though you're getting more tired because you're using your upper body a lot, you're not using your

lower body. So do you have to eat more food or do you have to eat less food? I feel like less. That's an interesting question. Less food, but I try,

my nutrition, you know, last couple of months guys have been, I haven't been to the box and I haven't been eating really well. My businesses have been pulling me all over the place. Rush Club has, you know, started to kind of really blow up. And so there's a lot more work to do. That's just one. You're doing the right thing. You got to get the work done.

But still, you know, and physical therapy takes precedence. Like I go into there over the box. But, you know, for the first two and a half years I had this injury, I was obsessive about nutrition. So the calories I got were perfect, right? And I was eating clean, great food, high nutritious food. So every calorie I took in was, I was looking, you know, I read everything I could about neurological adaptation. What vitamins do I need? You were saying you became a bit of an expert. Yeah, well was looking, you know, I read everything I could about neurological adaptation. What, what vitamins do I need? What you're saying? You became a bit of an expert. Yeah. Well not, no, an armchair, an expert quote unquote. They say you read one book and now you're probably 9% of the people on that fucking top. You read three articles on nerve regeneration. You're a goddamn expert compared to most people.

No, but I, you know, I, I try to, you know, weekly, I definitely do a lot of neurological research and I read all of the spinal cord stuff I can. Yeah. How long ago was the injury? December 10th, 2011. So almost just about three years ago. Not a long time ago. It's almost three years.

Yep. How long did you spend in the hospital? I spent six weeks in the hospital. Six weeks. They released you. You started doing outpatient therapy. Immediately. So here's the thing. When I got released the i didn't even go home i went to physical i went to interview

physical therapists first because i knew that was going to be the most important thing for my recovery right and uh found a guy the first day started the next day i didn't give myself any time to transition yeah and what i did was i bought one of those uh so i did was doing physical therapy learning how to crawl right that? That was the hardest part. Like a baby. Like literally. I got a picture of myself and my brand new niece. She was just learning how to crawl at the same time.

And you got a picture of me learning to crawl and her learning to crawl at the exact same time. She didn't beat me to walking, but I got my other niece. I got to beat my other niece. But anyway, so I started doing that. And then we bought one of those recumbent bikes with the two wheels in the front and the one wheel in the back and they got the pedals out there and what we did was my mom came down to help out

because my wife had to go back to work so it was my mom my wife and I living in the house and we would duct tape my feet to the pedals so that I could get that movement

right and they would push me around the block and at first they were pushing me around the block right and then I could take

go down one side of the block and then they'd have to push me the block right and then i could take go down one side of the block and then they'd have to push me the rest of the way in the block is this your fake it till you make it style of rehab it was yeah like let me pretend i can pedal then so soon you're buying there's there's there's a lot of science so did you lose feeling down there oh yeah all right so you lost that originally and then how did how did that whole process go slowly came back so i when i was in the hospital right when i left hospital, I could move my hip flexor, right? And I could lift my right foot off the ground about an inch, right? Using that, kind of like that.

Yeah. And what I said was when I woke up from surgery, I had my wife right on the whiteboard 100%, right? Like that was where I was heading. And I knew that if I got a toehold, if I was given an opportunity to get any nervous connection at all, one, I needed one nerve node below my level of engineering. So you're saying there's a chance.

So exactly. That's exactly right. I knew I could do it. And so once I got that, I obsessively flexed it 40,000 times a day. One of the best things you did, it seems, was even though you couldn't really move on your own, it seems like as soon as motion could happen,

it was the best thing you could do. And that's, there's actually... Even if you're being moved by something, motion was important. Yeah, there's science that shows functional electrical stimulation is what will take it over, but there's science that shows

that that muscle memory will actually help nerve signals work, right? I remember I had one bad injury. The movement first. The movement itself. The nervous system second. And it also helps keep the muscles from atrophying too much.

Right. And it keeps your bone density. Because that's the thing about... So here's the thing about spinal cord injuries too, is you've got a ticking clock. If you're not up in two years, you're screwed because you have so much osteoporosis. Because your bones, you don't use in your legs. Your bones... That makes sense.

The body is very efficient. It's like going to space. Yeah, it breaks down your shit immediately. That's actually what I use is the Alter-G treadmill, which they invented for astronauts that came... Are you familiar? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We used to do a lot

of research on trying to think of ways to create more efficient exercise stimuli for, like with Dr. Fry, we tried to dream up all these creative ways of using plastic bands

to get them up in a space shuttle because you could tie them in anything and create an elastic load and you didn't need gravity. So that's a whole fascinating area of

research, like how you replicate a stimulus to the body to keep it a body. And that's what, so that's what Coach AJ really helped research. It's really cool. Like how you replicate a stimulus to the body to keep it a body. And that's what Coach AJ really helped me with too is like thinking about banding and thinking about reverse body weight stuff. So like, you know, I was always thinking about lifting weights, but I wasn't thinking about weights lifting me.

So I like made this little, I got one of those roofer harnesses from Home Depot. Yeah. And Coach AJ helped me rig up this thing on my squat rack at home. I got a five-gallon bucket full of water, and I frickin' put on this suit and strapped the, I did some steel cables and some rescue pulleys. Yeah. And I took that, and I strapped it to me,

and so it would pull me up, right? And I could stand and do squats. And my goal was reverse body weight, right? So then the goal was empty the bucket. So then it was three quarters of the bucket, then it was half the bucket, then it was a quarter of the bucket. What a beautiful definition of progress that is. It's not just about piling on load. For you, it was like removing water from a bucket was a sign of your strength.

That's exactly right. Think about guys and gals that come new into boxes and can't do a pull-up. You're using bands, right? Because you can't do it on your own. Slowly, you go from the black band to the blue band to the green band and the red band and you're done, right? Then your body weight. It's the same exact principle. And that's really,

see, and that's the beautiful thing about the CrossFit ideology is that it's so open source that it allows you to think in all these different ways. I'm amazed that you obviously were completely unbound in the creative solutions you were seeking.

Yeah. It's like to find a way, no matter fucking what, just to do the movements. It seems to have a huge benefit having gone through the steps of doing the movement. Even if you couldn't squat on your own, just having a rig help you squat was hugely beneficial. That's exactly right. Because I couldn't lift my body weight, but I could lift 60% of my body weight. Yeah. And I needed to strengthen the muscles.

So once you've got the nerves, then you've got to build the muscle. Yeah. Right. And so I, and I needed to strengthen the muscle. So once you got the nerves, then you got to, once you got the nerves, then you got to build the muscle. Yeah. Right. And that takes forever because like I said, you're, you're, you're dealing with, how many people, I don't want to, this is a powerful thought came like, how many people could do this, but no one was there to help them. You know, how many people were this close to Daniel Stan who never got the chance and they were always defeated. So I, you're a hundred percent right. Actually. So one of the things that happens with spinal cord injured men, we don't know why, is that 60% of us get catastrophically low testosterone. Like when I got tested, I'm on testosterone replacement therapy, which brings me up to the levels I would be a little higher, but not much, like a couple hundred milligrams per deciliter or whatever it is. But I was at, average woman of our age is is 350 i was at 150 so not only do you have this

neurological injury right but your muscles atrophy so much to the point that if you do get neurological return you don't have the hormone to help you build and recover so you're you're and you're you're breaking yourself down and you're never building yourself back up. So you're 100% right. I think that that, and nobody, you guys have no idea how many doctors I had to go to to find a doctor that would even listen to me about this, that would even test me. Yeah, I've had a lot of very serious frustrations in the medical field where hormones are treated like a goddamn mystery danger to society. Well, meanwhile, you know, I have a really good understanding of what hormones do. And we know how some people can really benefit from having a reasonable,

monitored restoration of their endogenous hormone levels. I mean, I've been part of a couple of studies about testosterone and spinal cord injuries now.

I've been on several news programs talking because it's really important that people know this because, yeah, you take the testosterone and you take some of this functional recovery

ideas, right? These negative weight things. And you, yeah, I think we would see a lot higher. Like, 1%? Maybe we could take it to 2%? Yeah. Or 5%? Think about that. This is your injuries. This is this is MMA,

where Joe talks a lot about these athletes are being train wrecked and huge amounts of head damage. One of the things that's happening is this hormonally hugely compromised, it's affecting the mood. NFL players having profound emotional distress from repeated concussive injuries and hormone levels off the fucking charts and they're ruined for life.

What you're digging into affects everybody who is aggressively using their body. Totally. The wear and tear. We in this room, like I've struggled myself with hormone issues just because over

the last five years I was pushing. Like the last 20 years, pushing athletically. Well, not only that, but when you were heavy. Training, training, training. Asking so much of my body,

being heavy, not understanding how to restore. Your testosterone is lower there. Yeah. Beating the shit out of my body with 1,000 pound weights. And also getting into a career

where most of the day while I'm doing it, I'm sitting in a fucking chair eight hours a day. I don't get sun sooner or later your body that says fuck you exactly what it shuts the story down like it shuts everything down like okay well now if we take your boner away will you listen that didn't happen to me but it's gonna happen a lot of people right no you're right it's like a big alarm your body's your body's saying look we can't do this shit anymore because that's excess expenditure this is too

expensive we're gonna back down all this and just try to keep you functional it's the canary in the coal mine man yeah yeah yeah once your boner's the canary in the coal mine, man. Yeah. Yeah. Once your burner's gone, you're in trouble. You tend to pay attention. That got my attention. You know, it's that old joke

about the mule and the two-by-four. First, you got to hit him upside the head of the two-by-four to get his attention, right? Yeah. So, okay. I hadn't heard that one. There's a joke.

I'm just nodding my head. There's a mule. Mules are stubborn. Mules are very stubborn. Do you know the joke? They're stubborn. There's a mule in the middle of the road. The guy goes, I can't move this mule.

The guy goes, give me five bucks. I'll move him for you. My parents are a bit of a mule folk. That's right. So I know a little bit more about mules in the common, man. By the way, my parents forced me to go to an event one time called fucking Mule Day. Mule Day?

Mule Day? I have a buddy whose nickname is The Mule. It's a whole day of mule events. And let me tell you how fun that was as a 13-year-old kid going to the fucking mule day. But yeah, so you're stubborn. I'm also very stubborn.

Tell the mule story. So anyways, the guy goes, give me five bucks, I'll get him out of the road. He gives him five bucks, he goes into the hardware store, buys a two-by-four,

comes out, says, what are you doing with a two-by-four? I thought you were going to move my mule. He says, yeah, but I first got to hit him upside the head

to get his attention. You know? The boner. The boner. The boner. It was probably, it was tangential. That was kind of Pluto orbit, right? It's more of what the joke represents, Mike. That's right.

So you started doing the PT. And you mentioned something about a rec center. And then we got going in your realm. There's a really good, like one of two in the country. There's one in Alabama. And there's one here in Phoenix. And I think they're building one in San Diego now, too. just a really good, like one of two in the country. There's one in Alabama and there's one here in Phoenix. And I think they're building one in San Diego now too. Oh, really?

For a disability gym, especially for folks that have spinal cord injuries, neurological injuries, traumatic brain injuries, et cetera. And it was really nice to have that to transition because between CrossFit and, you know, physical therapy was great, but I was doing that two hours a day, right? Three days a week. I needed more. So then I would do biking. I would do, like I said, once I could bike, I started doing five miles a day every day. And then I would always do my treadmill work, right? But I needed more, too.

So then I started adding weightlifting. And that was the thing about weightlifting is I was doing all these isolation exercises. Yeah. So I was, muscle was coming back, but i wasn't getting any better at functional movements your movement wasn't getting exactly yeah and that's a huge need for movement that's exactly and that's what brought me to crossfit that's what motor patterns are what that's exactly right it's you know kinetic chain engagement and posterior chain engagement and you know really learning about um moving my muscles in in as one it's really quite fascinating because you've looked at like

i think i've read, this is a bit geeky, but I remember reading nature articles on early evolutionary theories about where movement comes from and why creatures need a nervous system. I think one of the articles, the hypothesis presented in this article

was you need it to move. If a little sponge in the sea embeds in a rock and gets stable, it has very little need for nervous system. As things start moving and going through 3D space, to do that in a choreographed way, you need a huge amount of processing power. Like your brain's like, I don't think it really starts with like,

it doesn't start with emotion and memory and all this stuff. Those are all side effects of having hardware developed that allows you to move around. And because you have that, now you can do all kinds of other stuff. So I don't think people realize just to move, that's why a snatch is so, you don't see how much

more data is there compared to a leg press. They both have their space. But you're not using, with a snatch you're using every muscle in your body. I don't know why a snatch

is so hard because you are missing all that data that you don't see. You're not paying attention to all that. It's like dark matter in the universe.

90% of what you're missing you can't tell is missing. And we don't even know what it is. So if you don't know what you don't know. You're not paying attention to all that. It's like dark matter in the universe. 90% of what you're missing you can't tell is missing. And we don't even know what it is. If you don't know what you don't know. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, 100% with that.

Yeah. Do you know a lot of other guys that are in your same situation? You know, I don't know anybody else. I've heard of another guy that has my level of injury that can walk with a walker

and full, they're called KFOs, full leg braces. He's actually started out with full leg braces, right? That locked, right? And that's walk with a walker and full K they're called KFs, full leg braces. He's actually started out, started out with full leg braces, right? That locked, right? And that's how I'd walk like straight leg. Forrest Gump and shit. Yep. Exactly. Exactly. Like Forrest Gump. Then, um, one day one of my therapists was like, dude, I think you're locking your knees out. So we unlocked him and sure enough, I

wasn't locking my knees. And then I took the top as soon as I could, I took the top off. Right. You're like, fuck yeah. Yep. And I never, you know, I, I still haven't gotten my ankle dorsiflexion back, I probably won't, but, you know, so these keep my ankle from rolling, basically, right? Mm-hmm. So that I can walk, and this kind of acts, this little thing here, acts as my calf. Yeah, but you've got a carbon fiber rod going back behind you.

Yep, it's actually plastic, you know, this isn't carbon. Tell chicks it's carbon fiber. Yeah, well, I got the carbon fiber overlay, as you can see. You know, that was an add-on, but I figured what the hell. You went to dark. You went to Kmart and got that shit. People put on their bumpers. I went all in on that, you know.

So, yeah, that was the progression. So what got you into CrossFit Mesa? You know, CrossFit was, okay, I need more functional movement. And I started to look for stuff. And one of my other buddies who was injured just said, have you ever heard of CrossFit? I said, no. And so I looked it up. And I actually looked up CrossFit spinal cord injuries.

And there was a guy in California who had a cervical injury. And three years later doing CrossFit, he was wide and excellent, right? Yeah. And I was like i see i i totally see how and why that is he was you couldn't if you didn't know he was spinal cord injured and injured and saw the you saw the video yourself you'd be like do you see potential here for you for exploring modified like is there a place where crossfit and pt can come together to experiment because this is the you kevin's story and your story are very unique.

And a lot of unique data come out of this. Like no one's gotten their back broken and gone on CrossFit except you two guys. So I wonder if something profoundly different shows data that might help us. Yeah. Is there a lot of improvement that these current protocols can be, like is there a lot of fat to be trimmed? I will tell you, yeah. I mean, there's just not enough data. And, you know, I already had, I brought quite a bit to the, you know, I'd already gained quite a bit when I got to CrossFit, but I didn't have, what CrossFit gave me was using my body, not just, not just moving my muscles, but using my body, right?

Yeah. In a way that was functional. And yes, I think that there's a tremendous amount of help and a tremendous amount of benefit and data that we can get from this type of stuff. You know, I mean, look at, like, in our box, we've got folks that, you know, came in 67 years old that came in with, you know, arthritic backs and they're fine now. It doesn't always have to be catastrophic. It can be average wear and tear. Yeah, exactly. Again, it's relative. Pain, suffering, and improvement is relative. There's a few things. You can talk shit about CrossFit in a lot of ways.

They deserve it in a lot of things, but other things you can't argue. One is the positive benefits of sport of weightlifting. Another one is the reinforcement idea of scaling is so important. Scale it up for the strongest power lifter. But if it's good, if it's a good idea, like most ideas, if what you're doing is a good idea, it can be drilled down to something that applies to anybody. Even me.

Like, you know, I couldn't do full snatches, but I was doing kettlebell snatches, right? See, kettlebell snatches. You still do it. Which still helped me. I worked every single muscle in the snatch movement I could. I didn't have the legs, but I had everything else. You're broken and it's still a fundamental movement for you. That's exactly right.

That's really powerful. And that's what I was saying. Like, I didn't feel, I felt like an upper half and a lower half until I got to CrossFit. And then everything put me back together. I remember the day where I was like, I'm moving in one piece here. I'm not two pieces anymore. Right. Right. Tell me what you think about this. So, uh, Daniel Gilbert, he's a big time researcher in positive psychology and, uh, happiness research. Harvard university, right? I think

it's Harvard. Yeah. He went, he wrote a book called stumbling on happiness. And I think this is in that book, but he basically says that overall given, you know, six, maybe, maybe 12 months after anything really really good happens you or really really bad happens do you tend to regress toward the mean and come back to your previous level of happiness regardless of what happens to you whether you get whether you get paralyzed or whether you win you you win a gold medal like if something really really good or really really bad doesn't matter you're going to come back to right around where you were before eventually after like the initial like you know celebration or depression wears off most people come back to right around where you were before eventually. After the initial celebration or depression wears off,

most people get back to where they were. It seems like you're kind of on that track, but I wonder how accurate that is for people overall. I hear being paralyzed, I'm going to be back to my same level of happiness, and I'm like, fuck, I just can't see it. But that seems to be what happens in the research. Listen, man, yeah, I do agree with that. People that let themselves be beat get beat.

People that beat things beat. Winners win and losers lose. Go put that on Instagram. It's so simple, but it's true. Winners win, baby. And that's just it, right? I had the greatest discussion on that. Ron Parsons, who we're going to get maybe on the show and do some.

Ron's a sports physiologist and fight promoter and fighter himself, wrestler. This guy's bright. You can check him out on Rogan's podcast. I want to get him on here very soon on our blog. We talked about how it's like some people. He told a great story about him going to his wrestling team in college. Where he's like, I was always like a runt. My mindset from the beginning was I could hang with these guys.

Yeah. And I knew that because that was my attitude when I played college football. I was like, I was a walk-on, undersized, slow, getting smashed daily. But my attitude was, I'll survive this. And I did. Because it's exactly what I said I was going to do, was just to hang. And he said, I went to this big ass cool university where I was like, my definite success

is I will hang. And he did because that's what he said. If he walked in going, I will crush these fucking guys. I don't care how good they are. And he really believed it. Now, he may not get there,

but he's going to do a lot more than just hang. Your mindset going into something. It's not bad. It's not, the worst thing is you're exactly what, you got to be careful

what you pretend to be because you're exactly what you pretend to bad. It's not, the worst thing isn't to aim. It's a good quote, dude. You're exactly what, you got to be careful what you pretend to be because you're exactly what you pretend to be. And, you know, the dangerous thing isn't to aim high and miss. The danger is to aim low and hit. Right?

Because now you're happy. Oh, look, I got rewarded for that. That's the quote. Right? No, I mean, according to your point, it's... Damn, that was good.

You know, if you don't, if you don't see, look, if you don't see yourself as what you want to be first, no one ever is ever going to see you that way. Right? So you're right.

It starts with you. It starts with your attitude. You know, my brother's a great kid, but he's naturally kind of, naturally one of these kind of down guys. Right? I got the up, he got the down, I guess. Or like, you know. Yeah.

He's like, how do you get through it every day? And it's like, you know, dude, it's a choice. Right? Every day is a choice. Happiness and success are choices. Now, not saying that I don't have emotional setbacks and I don't have frustrations. We're all just angry primates underneath. I'll fling my poo just like everybody else. Yeah, we all see sugary shit go, ooh. But then once I fling my poo, I wipe my hands off, I get the soap out, and I clean it up, and I get moving again.

Yeah. Right? So what kind of shit are you going to sling next? I mean, you've got the Rush Club going. That's a rough transition, maybe. Yeah. But you've recovered. You've done it.

This is an amazing story. And I want to kind of get to where you're going because we're over an hour. I want to make sure I get to this mini bit because you've had this experience. You're successful in these ventures. Everything seems really cool. You're playing on the sky now. What are you going you gonna take a shot at what's your big goal now so my big goal is to be the first paraplegic to hike the grand canyon rim to rim that was okay that was that was actually what i was looking for before i got hurt now you can't use this this bullshit trike you've got over here can you no no i'm talking walk i'm talking i'll use hiking poles

right and i may use use some assistance like climbing, like a railing or something. AJ and I have been talking about ways to modify like a- Don't fall down again in that fucking canyon. I don't want to fall off the edge, right? I don't trust you anymore, dude. But yeah, man, that was my, I was working, it was on my life list before I got hurt.

And it was like the first thing I said in the hospital that was the thing that I regretted. You come out and like, we would tape you doing that. You hadn't done that yet. I was like,

God, the only thing I really can think, like the only thing that keeps popping in my head is I didn't get to hike the Grand Canyon. And my wife comes home one day, I'm laying in bed,

like this is three days after I get home from the hospital. Exhausted from Petiti and she's like, I have an idea. She said, you're going to hike

the Grand Canyon. And I was like, oh sweetie, that's so cute. And that's the thing about like, you know, just, She said, you're going to hike the Grand Canyon. So I got something to push for. And I was like, oh, sweetie, that's so cute. And that's the thing about like, you know, just if I can go with this for a second is, you know, a really big success factor, too, is a great support system. My wife is everything. I mean, you guys have no idea. Like when I couldn't move in the middle of the night, she would have to get up and reposition me five, 10, 15 times a night. Right. Depending on how much in pain I was. Like roll me five, 10, 15 times a night, right?

Depending on how much in pain I was. Like, roll me over, man. Like, you know, so it's not, it ain't just me. But the thing about like those successful partnerships and support systems are, like even when you're in the blackness, even when you think you can't, somebody sees something in you

that you don't yet see in yourself. And that kind of of and you want to rise to their okay you want to you want to be the person that they think you are right and so that that's what's really got me going on that and then you know piece by piece I started to get you know at first it was impossible and then maybe and now it ain't no doubt I got two I gave myself five years I got two more years left, and I'm at the end of my goals. I wanted to walk with canes.

That was my ultimate goal, and I can actually walk without canes now, but not real well, and I fall over a lot. I can't really walk well with canes. I heard you took some of your first steps in a CrossFit gym. I did, yep.

My very first steps were in a CrossFit box without canes. That's exactly right. CrossFit Mesa, just in case anybody was curious about that. Is that because out of all the places that you tend to go, the CrossFit gym has the highest expectations for you? Or is that just the first time you decided to try it?

Or how did that work? You know, a combination of the things. So one of the reasons why I stuck with it forever, like I love it, is because for my first day I was doing black band squats, right? And I could do three of them myself. And basically what I was doing is pulling back. It's like a big, heavy band. It's one of the biggest bands.

I think it's the 50 or 70 pounds or something like that, right? It's like ridiculous. So I'm pulling this thing, and I'm basically launching myself out of my wheelchair, right? To stand up. And I got three, and I fell. And no one came to help me. And I was like, this is my place. I had to get back up and get in my chair myself

and do it all over again. Yeah. So I felt, I felt, you know, I, they always let me fail, experiment and fail there. You know, physical therapy, they're so worried about, you know, you're, you're, you're fricking strapped into these with these gate belts and these, you know, you're like a puppet because they're walking you because God forbid you fall, you know? But you know, how do you get- Well, not on you because God forbid you fall, you know? Yeah. But you know, how do you get- Well, not on property anyway. Right.

You're going to fall somewhere else. Yeah, right. Exactly. But so, so how do you, like, if you're not pushing the envelope, you're not going to improve, right? And so that's what I see in physical therapy. Like physical therapy is incredibly important, but you need to step outside that. And that's what the CrossFit Box did for me.

Absolutely. That's awesome. It allowed me to push further than anybody else was comfortable letting me. And that's, you know to push further than anybody else was comfortable letting me yeah and that's you know and it worked yeah cross the gyms have done that for a lot of people where they've set some very unrealistic expectations that you never thought you could hit and then all of a sudden you hit them i call them b-hags big hairy audacious goals you know that's what i call this you know when you quit saying cool shit because i'm trying to think how am i gonna fit all this into the show notes like how am i gonna write all this into something that makes sense because it's all good shit and then once i you know i'm quit saying cool shit because I'm trying to think how am I going to fit all this into the show notes how am I going to write all this into something

that makes sense because it's all good shit and then once I you know I'm kind of already starting to think beyond that though you know

because Mount Whitney you can get to the top of without having to hand over hand climb it's the largest highest peak in the lower 48 that might be something

I might do after this after the one one dragon at a time right but once I yeah I've started already looked beyond the first dragon that's dope yep after this. One dragon at a time. After this podcast. Right. But once I,

yeah, I've started to already look beyond the first dragon. That's dope. Yep. Fantastic. Steve, thanks for joining us today. Do you have anything

you want to promote? Obviously Rush Club. Obviously Rush Club, you guys. We've got the live stream going on. We're in the green room now in case we didn't announce it.

Right. We're being very rock and roll. We're making pop off tonight, but yeah, Rush Club, check that out. Rush Club is kind of like the mix between

like fitness competitions and MMA it's like a fight yeah so like what we're trying to do is do head to head make it

make it intense raw bring it back to what it really should be which is a straight up competition and you know

make it a little bit more spectator friendly and it's a weight class sport it's weight class based just like fighting so we can bias it with you know to make sure that the challenges are geared towards the movements and biomechanics that the athletes have. You're looking to run the horses hard. That's right.

And put a little blood in the water and see what happens. Exactly. Throw that rabbit out there and see if anybody chases it. People don't realize, I'm interested to see how this goes down because one of the things people forget is like the big hidden, the X factor

in like how your strength training works out. Like people go and like focus on what they wear and what they eat and how they train. All good. You got to think

these things through. Yep. But if there's not somebody there willing to kick the shit out of you and make you stronger, you ain't going to get very strong.

Exactly. You got to get your ass beat. That's it. You got to get your ass kicked. That's it. Like you see, if you don't have a, dude, every superhero has a villain, right? If you don't going to get very strong. Exactly. You got to get your ass beat. That's it. You got to get your ass kicked. That's it. Like you see, if you don't have a,

dude, every superhero has a villain, right? If you don't, without a villain, there is no need for a hero, right? And so,

yeah, that's, that's, that's, that'd be Superman just sitting around while he's jerking off doing nothing.

That's right, man. You got no job to do. You know, it'd be Clark Kent freaking reporting on Republicans and Democrats in Congress.

He'd be in the lower chamber. Boring shit. Exactly. All right, so anything else you want to promote before we go? Twitters, Instagrams, or anything like that? Oh, we got Rush Club Nation, you know, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and, you know, listen,

Spinal Cord Injury Awareness, you know, there's some really good, Christopher Reeve Foundation, if anybody's looking to make any donations, is a really good spot to go I don't know how much jerking off he did he was literally superman yeah he was literally so that was interesting

his story was a magnificent wow that guy was attention if it wasn't for Chris Reeves there would be no Steve Heideman he's a hell of an example and he brought before spinal cord injury actually my quick quick quick story my uncle has a spinal cord injury he got hit by a

uh drunk driver running 20 years ago and i didn't really understand in the sea he's c level high high level so he's right but he walks and you know obviously you know laborededly, but he, he recovered. Um, and, uh, uh, he was in the hospital for a year, right? And basically was on his own. You, in those days you either did it or you didn't. Not with, when Christopher Ryu came along and started putting some of the exercise based therapies in and helping raise money for,

for research. It's all changed, man. I mean, yeah, he's, he was, he,

he lit a candle that, uh, still burns brightly today. So it's awesome. man I mean yeah he's he was he lit a candle that still burns brightly today so that's awesome yep well thanks for joining us thank you guys I really appreciate it

it was fun yeah thanks Steve rock and roll you bet