Barbell Shrugged - 155- Part 1 - Why The Waffle Plays a Role In Your Strength Gains

Episode Date: December 19, 2014

Part 1 of 3

Hey, what's up everybody? This is Chris. This week on Barbell Shrugged, it's not your typical episode, baby. Get on over to barbellshrugged.com, queue up the video version, get your friends over, make some food, turn on the HDTV, and enjoy the show. But, if you are listening to the audio version, we broke this episode into three parts. This is part one of three, where we sit down with Aleko's CEO, Eric Blomberg, talk about what it takes to make the world's finest barbell and why a humble waffle iron made it all possible. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrug. For the video version, go to barbellshrug.com.

Welcome to Barbell Shrug. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson, Chris Moore. We have CTP behind the camera, and we also have Charlotte Miles. We have two camera people, so we're actually changing the show right now. Maybe forever. Improving the show. A big upgrade, right? It's not changing. We're not changing it.

We're making it better. That's right. We actually traveled to Sweden, believe it or not. We're hanging out with the CEO of Aleko Eric Blomberg and we're going to be talking you know what we've all known that Aleko barbells are the best

and we've always wanted more of them in our gyms and all that kind of stuff and we got talking to them at some events I met your brother Ricard at a couple events events this year. And he was like, oh, you should come to Sweden. I'm like, I'll come to Sweden.

I will take you up on that. As soon as that was a possibility. Seriously, we said, we have to go. You won't enjoy us being there at all. We will crash your party. Excited. Now you're here. And now we're here.

And we found out, we're in the process of finding out more about Aleko, and it's really fascinating. Chris Moore is actually going to be serving us waffles. So the most fascinating thing I've learned is that you guys started off as, you weren't a company that was manufacturing barbells. That's right, that's right, yeah. Actually, the company goes back all the way to 1927. And in the beginning, it was producing waffle irons and toasters.

And waffles are like a national delicacy. There's a waffle day in Sweden. It's a waffle day. We have a special waffle day, exactly. And we usually celebrate that respectfully at the company because of the history. Yeah. We walked in the front door and there's the full disc set and barbells from the 2012 London Olympics. And then right in front of it, a waffle iron, I got a picture of it,

that has the Eleiko old school logo stamped on top. Exactly. Yeah. And actually, if you look at the logo, Eleiko stands for, in Swedish, electrical installations, limited company. So it really has not much to do with weightlifting at all. And it didn't start off with waffle irons either. That's so fast. Or it did.

That type of electrical type of equipment. So it was waffle irons and toasters and little kitchen electrical gadgets. Yeah, exactly. Portable ovens and stuff like that. You say the original grip on the barbell was made because they knew how to make the grid for the waffles? Yeah. Well, actually, it was actually a weightlifter working in the factory. The resident meathead

was in the factory. Yeah. And he competed and he saw that at that time you couldn't run a complete competition with just one bar. So they had to use

several bars to... I think we forget that. Even some of the bad bars now, you would never expect just routinely for a barbell to break. They do break. Some of the cheaper barbells will break. But apparently when weightlifting was emerging as a sport, you couldn't go a whole competition without maybe exchanging a bar multiple, numerous times because of cracking or shattering. It never occurred to people that it needed to be more than just metal or what have you exactly so he he wanted to to to do something about this and

and and also at the time it was it was a a woman who was the ceo of the business uh she was the widow uh from the from the from the the person who started it and so she was running the company uh and when extraordinary and yeah these women's ceo exactly that's quite unique as well that was unique for Sweden. In the United States, that would have been really unique, but it wasn't like Sweden was way more

progressive at the time. Yeah, no, no, no. And we have some beautiful pictures of this woman. She's a tiny, tiny woman and she was running this business

and then got this proposal put forward to her about making a barbell, a weightlifting barbell from doing waffle irons and she thought okay let's uh let's uh let's go what an amazing woman why not try something new how popular was weightlifting back then well actually back in those those days weightlifting weightlifting has always been quite quite uh quite popular in in sweden uh strength training overall has been quite popular in Sweden.

Strength training overall has been quite popular. We're not as strong now as we used to be. So we were probably stronger in those days. Is he doing it right? What does that mean? So for the audience at home, I'm pouring authentic Swedish waffles here. I'm trying my best to not burn or scorch. I've never made a Swedish waffle. But I'm an awesome...

Oh, we need a little more batter here I think that's going to be perfect Eric am I doing okay am I shaming your country no no it's good

I mean the US is not that bad with waffles if you guys smell like this week on Barbell Shrug horrible scorching

burning smells let me know I'm burning this waffle I think it oh it's overflowing oh jeez just ignore this exactly so it's good. Oh, it's overflowing. Oh, geez. Just ignore this.

Exactly. So the actual, people think when they grab a barbell, the knurling just sort of, oh, well, you need a grip. And so we assumed that somebody had an idea just to put this on a barbell. But no, it was an ingenious solution where the most natural thing they could have been thinking at the time was that, what kind of pattern can we put on the barbell? Well, we know waffles really well. We know waffle pattern.

I guess it reminds me of the first Nike tennis shoes where, what was the developer of the Nike shoe? I can't remember the guy who was the track coach. I'm just kidding. Well, no. The original, he would pour rubber, I guess, into a waffle maker. Oh, yeah? And it would sort of cook and solidify.

They call those waffles. He would trim those and put that on the bottom of his shoes for the grip, I guess was the first. It's very similar how much waffles are responsible for physical culture and development.

And also, they're delicious. I mean, we should all be eating way more waffles, I guess, in honor of what they've contributed to society.

But do you know if that was an illegal waffle iron? If it was an illegal waffle iron, that would be fantastic. I think it was the cheap American, probably inferior waffle

to your very Swedish, innovative, high quality, well-designed machines. an Aliko waffle iron, that would be fantastic. I think it was the cheap American, probably inferior waffle maker to your very Swedish, innovative, high quality, well designed machines. Yeah, but I think that kind of legacy, from the 60s to now, your pursuit, the central pride, one thing that came out

with visiting your facility is that the marketing and the facilities guys, these are guys who take so much pride in the construction of this barbell. I knew you guys were proud of it, I guess. But to see that, no, we really do value the fact that we make the best barbell in the world. And it made me almost emotional because I recognize that this is like, I see the barbell as an evolving organism almost. It's a tool to develop, you said, it brings out the best strength in human beings.

It has evolved alongside us in recent years to help us be better. So I treat the barbell with reverence. And to hear you say, well, we would never, do not drop our bar, these bars. It's a reverential attitude towards the steel. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think you do feel, and I you hope you feel that when you when you when you meet the company that that that the barber is really at the heart of the company and it is the hero product for us and it it defines us as well and uh we we it's i mean a

lot of the people lift themselves of course but, but it's also because we see how the athletes, the professional athletes, appreciate it, how it helps them to really achieve what they want to achieve in the big competitions. So you guys, the first barbell was developed in, what, 1957? Yeah, exactly. And then it was launched at the World Championship in Stockholm. And how did it differ from the barbells that were being used before?

Well, I mean, I think the main difference in the beginning was that they worked to find a very special type of steel, a really reliable and very, very pure type of steel. And this is still the case. And we've made, of course, improvements over the years. But the steel is of very, very high quality. They just happen to have that kind of high quality steel already back in 1957 or they they saw that they worked with a steel mill up in up in the northern part of sweden which which who thought it was a really fun thing to do to do as well because your company

already was was a lego already working with that steel company and it was like we already have like the highest quality still we'll just use the same stuff or did you seek out something new uh it was part of this this development project once once this uh this weight lift i got got the got the got the green light okay so he was like i'm gonna go find the best steel around exactly and uh um and it's a it's a big part of and that's also why we why we we just got back a bar from 1963. Oh, yeah. You told us about that. Yeah, that's stored in archives in a safe somewhere. Yeah, we have it in our... We're going to make a little museum including that.

Somebody brought back a barbell from 1963. Yeah. It still spins. Yeah, it still spins. Why'd they bring it back, though? Because it was a precious thing for this person. Actually, he just mentioned it and we thought we have to see this one. Right.

So we traded it for, we gave him a new one. You gave him a new barbell. And he allowed us to put this one in. It's a pretty good trade. That's one thing, I was having this discussion with your brother, Ricard, back in the States. I met him, and we were talking about how people treat Aleko barbells like jewelry. And I am just as at fault as anybody else because I don't want anyone touching my damn Aleko barbell. If not me.

No, no, no. Don't touch my bar. You're going to hurt it. I like the weightlifters use it, but sometimes like, say with CrossFitters or something, I was like, because some people just don't know how to treat the barbell. And so I would prefer they use something

that doesn't cost as much. Yeah. But a lot of people use it, kind of treat it as jewelry when it's really the most robust barbell you can buy. Like, it's not, you're probably not going to damage it yeah no no exactly i mean these are things we hear we hear all the time when we go out and speak to lifters and we just had uh things are so nice people yeah yeah we had after our card of here uh the russian world champion uh he's a good friend of the company and and and and we did

some work together and he explained how he grew up doing weightlifting. And then they had to start from one part of the room, and they had to run to get the bars. And they had one Eleko bar. Everyone ran for the Eleko bar. And when they got the Eleko bar, they felt, okay, this is going to be a good workout. Oh, they had to redo it every

day yeah yeah so that these are fantastic uh stories to to hear i remember you guys saying yesterday that when people say that they bent their eliko bar you don't believe them because when you were stress testing that bar yesterday you were putting uh what was it 1500 kilos kilos on the bars you have to be doing and And it would bend way more than you could ever possibly bend it in the weight room. And it would come back perfectly straight. Exactly. It was amazing to see.

So yeah. And it's really amazing, amazing material. So from the time the barbell was introduced, this was a big risk for a Leica 163. I guess, well, experiment. We're going to try something new and see how it goes how did it transition to like when the decision made when was the decision made to to get rid of the toaster ovens and to switch the focus to be a physical culture company because now your culture and your your educational focus and the innovation that's that's that's occurred

from 63 to now yeah the steady evolution of the products in your scope. That's a radical transition for this company. Was it the moment when they went to the meet? Was it a mind-blowing event where they go to that competition in 63 and everybody realizes, wow, you've blown our minds? It'll put new possibilities, and maybe at that point a new industry unfolds? Yeah. I think gradually over the years,

the sports business developed more favorably than the other business, of course. People already had all the waffle irons they needed. Yeah, exactly. But actually, for many years, Eleiko was just a very niche company focusing on the international competitions. And over the years, we've been at 40 world championships since the first one in Stockholm. And over a thousand world records have been broken with the Leica bar. So it built a very strong position in the professional weightlifting and powerlifting market.

Well just a couple of weeks ago or last week there were several world records set and reset with your barbells. We were in Kazakhstan in Almaty for the world championship and supplied the whole competition. And those were just amazing, amazing performances. I think that's one thing, aside from the quality and all that, the one thing that really stood out to me was that the equipment is what you do really well. But you also do so many other things really well like the over the last 50 years i guess you've become masters of knowing how a meet the competition should be run and how how you guys come into these competitions and also fully support uh and help organize and help with execution help make sure these athletes are taken care of i guess that's been a very big factor in helping the

sport progress from where it was in the 60s to where it is now, which is, I'm assuming it's at its strongest point since its inception. Yeah, exactly. Weightlifting is now exploding. Yeah. I couldn't be more overjoyed by that. Yeah. Because I just didn't think that, I thought it might be a sport that was slowly dying

when I was studying it in the early 2000s as a grad school student. Yeah. But to see it revitalized now, I mean, I'm sort of really respectful of what you guys have contributed to it. It looks like it began with this organization. Yeah. No, I think that's, I mean, we worked, we were the first company to be certified by the International Weightlifting Federation.

And we worked with them very, very closely over the years and supporting and trying to really grow the sport and professionalize it. And I think you're right. Vi har jobbat med dem väldigt, väldigt nära under åren. Vi stödjer och försöker växa sporten och professionalisera den. Jag tror att du är rätt. Den här områdena med projektmanagering och service som vi ger kompetensen- –är en viktig del, för det här är stora projekt- –och inget kan gå fel med det här med utrustning och annat. big big projects and nothing nothing is uh is allowed to to go wrong with it with the equipment and other things as well so it's i think that's that that's an important part as well really being there for for the federations and the organizing committees can you tell us about how the barbell has progressed since was it 1957 was the first one yeah right So how has it changed over the years? I mean, the barbell we have now is probably a lot different

than maybe the 70s or 80s. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we do make still gradual improvements on the bars and the construction and the components. And we constantly just try to optimize the performance of the bar. Sandor, who has been with the company for more than 20 years, he's the main craftsman for. We met that man, and he looked like he was,

he was, command respect for that man. He had seen so many barbells, and you could tell, this is what he took seriously, above everything else in his life he's like he was this was these were his babies it seemed yeah what was what was really uh interesting for me was i knew that i'd be excited to see like the manufacturing process i knew that it would be exciting and fun yeah and i was like okay this would be great and then when i got in there, it was almost a, an emotional moment. Not almost, it was like an emotional moment. Like meeting the guy that like made my barbell. I was like, this is like, you know, the barbell that I use to train on that I, that I put all my work on. Like, this is, this is what

I use to get better. This is what I use to get stronger. This is, I spent hours, uh, hours and hours and hours every week with this barbell. I got to meet the guy who's like, he's in charge of making this. Yeah, exactly. It's gone through his hands. Yeah. It was weird. It was like meeting your wife's father or something.

I don't want to brag. Let me interrupt this conversation. Thank you so much. This waffle, I nailed. Way more satisfying. No, I'm just kidding. I nailed the waffle, by the way. I'm excited, too. Eric, why don't you try it and tell me if I either sh Thank you so much. This waffle, I nailed. Way more satisfying. No, I'm just kidding. I nailed the waffle, by the way. I'm excited, too.

Eric, why don't you try it and tell me if I've either shamed you or brought great pride to your culture. He may slap you in the face. You deserve it. I tried. The keto waffle, everybody, is al dente, tender, chewy, center, but you've got to have the crispiness on the outside. Yeah, thank you. You heard him. It was really good.

An actual Swedish man said I made a perfect waffle. We want everybody to take note. Yeah, but I got the same effect. The people who are working there making these barbells, I think you could see

how proud they were that they know, even the guy making the rubber discs, the people welding together the collars and putting the shine, applying the knurling.

Everybody knows that these barbells go out into the world, and for, it's like a normal job where you make a, let's say you make a toaster oven, it goes out into the wild. Somebody uses it to make waffles for a little bit of toast for a couple months. I could just see somebody out in the wild using a toaster oven. But when you make a barbell like this,

you're a craftsman who makes a barbell like this, it goes out into the world, it's there for the next 100 years helping young athletes become champions. Yeah, exactly. And that ties into your culture where you said, we are here to help the champions of the day, and then the thing that almost made me cry

was the champions of tomorrow. So to know that your craft and the steel and the legacy and that original meathead who was working in your facilities in the 50s, that decision, that action, that craft has had a monstrous effect in this world. And that's only now beginning. Like now more and more people, especially in the United States, are taking up the craft of weightlifting. Yeah. And it's changing their life. I mean, it's changed our lives.

I mean, Doug and I and Mike wouldn't be who we are without barbells we would be i would i don't know where i would be i i do not want to really consider what i'll be doing and who i would be without that i mean i'm sure it was a lucky break to stumble into my friend's backyard yeah and to find the cheapest that if there's a leak over here, department store concrete weights and a pipe, which I had when I was a kid, are way over there in terms of quality.

But it was a start and there's something very special, profoundly special about a barbell. I mean, it is a tool not just for you

to express your ego, not for you to prove how strong you are, but it's how you will personally refine yourself. Yeah. And that's why I think now, like I tell you about it, if you really want that transformation to really kickstart,

invest in it. Really treat your tools like they aren't just ways for you to get stronger. That's how you get better as a person. Exactly. And I think that's also something that is part of the culture of our company. We talk a lot about celebrating strength and the type of strength that we believe in. Det är en del av vårt företagskultur. Vi pratar mycket om att fejla kraft.

Den typen av kraft som vi tror på är den du beskriver. Det är i det mesta, för vi tror att lyftning är en typ av krafttraining- –som skapar bra funktionsnedsättning, häftiga och bra utbildning. Det gör också något annat för folk. and well-performing bodies. And it also makes something else to people. It's a process as well. It's an inner process where you become stronger as a person and you become self-reliant. So there's a lot of aspects that you don't really see

with weightlifting when you just observe it. You have to do it. You have to get inside it. Absolutely. And once you spend time with a barbell, like really, I think CrossFit has discovered this now, the year-by-year stepwise progression

teaches you that there are no real shortcuts. That if you want to be the best you can be, you will take that barbell and you will progressively work, diligently, sequentially, progressively, with purpose,

with a plan. And there'll be good times. There'll be really bad times. This is a life lesson. Every time you walk into a gym and touch that bar, you know. That bar will not lie to you. Like Henry Rollins said with my heroes, he said, 200 pounds, let's say, is always 200 pounds. You have to engage it.

It's a great calibrating force. You cannot shortcut barbells. He says, they will kick will kick you the real deal like they're not going to lie to you like maybe sometimes friends will coddle you or whatever but the barbell will tell you the truth yeah no that's what i said no i agree that's one of the things i really appreciate about strength and really just fitness in general is that it can't be given to you you have to earn it there's no way around it you can't be you can't be in school and write a paper and turn it in. And the teacher goes, well, maybe that's not quite good enough. Good rough draft, but bring it back. And that teacher knows you worked really hard. Maybe it's actually

a C level paper. She gives you an A anyway, because you worked really hard, but it doesn't work like that with strength. You have to do the things that cause your body to get stronger, or you simply don't get stronger. There's no amount of effort you can put in that if it's the wrong type of effort or you just don't do it right your body goes well you worked hard here you go and just gives it to you anyway you have to you have to earn it yourself and on the flip side when that's not happening you know you're making mistakes so you should you should be the first person to recognize that i need to search out what it is i'm doing that is not quite as efficient so even that encourages you if you're the wise athlete you will get to great uh you'll come

if you're awake without come to legal i'll pick your brain so hard and pull every bit of this knowledge out i will go to every single lifter and try to learn as much as possible because i need the data to know what mistakes i'm making so this all these effects, if you think of the cumulative effect this has, this process of training, it's got really nothing to do with how big your muscles are or what your jerk is. It's very nice. That's awesome.

Press the girls with a 250-kilo jerk if you can, but what you get out of it is much more than that. Yeah, I agree. And I think this is also what you see happening now in the sports and fitness market. It's really changing. You said it's an incredibly exciting time for weightlifting,

and it truly is. We see it now. Especially if you're manufacturing weightlifting equipment. I know. You guys have to be growing really fast right now. You're smiling for multiple reasons.

And if you love to lift as well, because we work a lot as well to really promote lifting as a way of training. And we've done it. We've been forced to do it because we see that it's an obstacle for some people to just get into this mindset. And we worked a lot with education to really educate people on the benefits with lifting and then also the basics on how to. That was one of the things I was surprised about as we came in.

I was thinking, okay, these guys make barbells, but they also have... We're going to be talking to some people today yeah where you have a huge educational component yeah exactly so we we've been running courses in olympic lifting and and also partnering with different different institutions and and educators and you you'll you'll be taking taking part in one one one of those this afternoon excellent aren't you excited michael i am oh one of the things i want to bring up uh before we get much further is uh doug was talking to me he was telling me about uh how he grew up yeah and he

grew up on the lake of barbells oh doug you have to tell that story right now this is the moment i did uh i was super fortunate growing up uh yeah i lifted weights and did some some things in kind of the world of fitness before i started actually doing weightlifting but when i actually started weightlifting when i was about 15 i was very fortunate and i don't think i told you this yet necessarily uh that i was able to lift pretty much on all elico everything and i had elico bars we had elico bumpers um and then eventually we bought an illegal platform. Wow. So I had kind of the best of the best from day one.

And the guy I grew up with, he basically had a philosophy that he wanted to ensure that no matter what, he had the best equipment. That way, if there was ever any lack of progress or a plateau or if anything went wrong, he knew he could blame it on himself. This is my fault. It's not because I don't have the best shoes or the best equipment or the best training program or anything. You always want to make sure you have the best everything. That way, if anything was not the way it should be, he could say, this is my fault and so I have to fix it. It's a lack of effort or something that I'm doing. And in the case of barbells and bump and bumpers, he, he thought Lico was the best in the world. And so that's what he chose to get for, for everything. So, so I was really fortunate growing up to, to have a Lico for every training session back when I was in high school and then a lot of it in college too. And then

on top of that, he, he was very, you know, he had a lot of extra frequent flyer miles and whatnot. So he would fly me to NSCA conferences on his flyer miles. And then we would go to the LECO booths like, you know, back when I was like 19 and 20. And I remember learning at the LECO booth, you know, like to push my elbows up when I jerked and to widen my grip a little bit. And like Bud was there, Bud Charnaga. Oh, Bud Charnaga.

Lou DeMarco and Todd Lyons. Like why do I remember the names of these guys from a booth that I went to at a couple of conferences when I was like 12 or 13 years ago when I was like 18, 19, 20. Wow. I don't remember the names of anyone else at any booth I ever went to at any conferences I went to. This says a lot about how impactful that experience was.

But I remember like multiple from the Alico booth. Like Tommy Kona was there showing us how to do stuff. It was always the Alico booth. That was like the hub we always went to this says a lot about how impactful i remember like multiple from the elico booth like tommy kona was there showing us how to do stuff it was always the elico booth was like that was like the hub we always went to when we went to conferences and i always knew that i was going to come back with like you know another couple sets of bumper plates or i bought my first set of uh of adidas weightlifting shoes from bud at at a at a an nsa conference at the elico booth like elico was like a big part of my my upbringing really so for me to be here is is incredibly cool for me well you wouldn't be here without that experience probably no i really would not be that cement that probably you went there and that did not say well maybe i'll go back to this you came to memphis to study with us because there's these

experiences well this is cool i wanted more of this that's how this all started that's right yeah not a lot of people know that i so uhed so I guess we have to thank you yeah thank you for everything you've done that's incredible you have to send me some pictures yeah I'm going to those bumper plates

we have especially are like the old old old school version they're like 30 years old and he still uses them to this day the black inner with white

and the colored outside was it that's right yeah yeah I'll take some photos for sure and I'll send them you know what's crazy

those plates are in the wild being used by champions right now That's right. I'll take some photos for sure. You know what's crazy? Those plates are in the wild being used by champions right now. Especially some of the older training halls where some countries don't have the resource for the new stuff. But to know that they still think a Lico. A Lico. A Lico plate. It's a Lico. A Lico.

And a Lico plate. They don't complain if you say it wrong. Well, these plates that were manufactured, let's say, in the 80s, some might be a little bit cracked, but they're still functional now and being used by world-class athletes now, which is extraordinary. Can you say that about any other training tool that professional athletes would use? What other sport would you consider using 30-year-old equipment and it's still as good as what you can get from comparable manufacturers today? Does that exist athletes would use? What other sport would you consider using 30-year-old equipment and it's still as good as what you can get from comparable manufacturers

today? Does that exist in other sports? Basketball, football, NASCAR? That equipment from like two years ago is gone. Like the legacy of these supplements is extraordinary. I can't think of another example where, except maybe old race cars, the older they get the better they are maybe or something.

But when you really are pushing the craftsmanship, is what you get yeah this kind of effect that's a that's a swedish thing it was kind of what we found here is uh not it's like the the amount of precision and this is something that didn't occur to me but when i got here i was like oh everybody here i was like oh yeah there's so many swedish products all over the world not just in training that there's a high degree of design and innovation. High degree seems like not even good enough praise. Pretty much set the standard a lot of times in a lot of industries, not just this, but

a lot of industries, the Swedes are kind of setting the bar for precision and innovation. Yeah. I think that's right. It's always been a big part of the country. We have a lot of big companies as well which were built on innovations.

We talked about SKF yesterday, about the bearings. Yeah, the needle bearing was developed in Sweden. And Sweden, this fact touched my heart, Sweden is number two consumer of coffee in the world. Right behind the Finns, I guess you guys have a vicious coffee competition. Supposedly there's someone on Wikipedia going back and forth, fighting for... Who drinks the most coffee in the world?

That's what I love about Europe. You cannot come here and not get a great cup of coffee. You like the coffee? Yes. Oh, come on. Coffee and waffles. What else do I need in this life? That's good to hear.

Yeah, and also music. I guess Sweden's pumping out more music than just about anybody. So there's, like I said, to Mike's point, you're driving through the neighborhoods, every home you can see, well-decorated, everything manufactured. And you're, I guess, the place where the discs are manufactured, which is not,

I guess they're a partner of Lightguard. But the precision in that, every level of the culture is focused on what can we do better and prettier. Not just functioning perfectly, but also making it better, better pleasing to the eye, and in the design sense it gets better as well. It's extraordinary.

Yeah, let's wrap this up. Thanks for joining us, Eric. I think we're going to move on over and talk to some other folks. Maybe use some more about some other stuff. I'm enjoying it. We're going to run over to Aleko, over to

the, I guess the factory, right? Yeah. CTP is trying to Are we going to have our waffles? We got to finish your perfectly executed

Swedish waffle. Oh, yeah. Made by master Swedish chef. All right, thanks, Eric. Thank you. Cheers.

This is Andrea Ager, and you're listening to Barbell Shrug. For the video version, go to Ager, and you're listening to Barbell Shrug. For the video version, go to barbellshrug.com. Barbell Shrug is brought to you by you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrug.com and sign up for the newsletter.