Barbell Shrugged - 164- Interview w/ UFC Fighter Pat "Durkin" Cummins

Episode Date: February 12, 2015

This week on Barbell Shrugged, we interview UFC fighter Pat Cummins, aka Durkin. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. I am like a little girl. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe, standing here with Chris Moore. I got shot. Chris Moore and Doug Larson, we are hanging out at Pat Cummins' house, a.k.a. Durkin, UFC fighter.

Yes, welcome. Yeah, thanks for having us over. You fed us. Gave us coffee and cheeses. We talked you into letting us do a show with you, and then you feed us food and give us drinks. I'm a gracious host. Yeah.

I just want to kick it off with just this because the story is amazing. Can you tell us about the phone call? You've been fighting in the UFC for one year now. Yes. What was that first phone call? Tell us that story. I'll give you a little back story first. Okay. My road to the UFC was kind of different.

I think a lot of people don't understand that it's a struggle. There's no minor leagues. If you would consider something a minor league in the UFC, it's just you're fighting at the Indian Casino and you're just trying to get wins under your belt to to get noticed or to you know to get into the into the big fights are for attention they're not it's not like a system it's not like it's like here's eight hundred dollars good job yeah right if that three times a year well yeah it got to the point where you know I come from a good college wrestling background and that's like like the kiss of death for guys trying to get into fighting.

They don't want to wrestle. They want to have a stand-up fight or whatever they're good at. There was a point where... No one wants to fight wrestlers? Is that what you just said? Yeah. I fought four times before making it to the UFC. And my last two opponents, I think I had to give my purse to them. Wow.

So I'm fighting for free, you know. Is that because nobody wants to fight wrestlers because they think you're just going to take them down and hold them on the ground? It's going to be a boring fight and then they're not going to get fights in the future? No, it's just, it's all about your record. You know, everybody's trying to do the same thing. You know, everybody wants to get to 10 and 0. Right. And then,

you know, have Dana White call him up and say, hey, you know, we noticed you're doing great. Yeah, that's the dream. Yeah,

exactly. So, you know, if you don't come from a wrestling background, or even if you do, you know, and you run up, you know,

you say, yeah, sure, I'll go fight this college wrestler that, you know, it's a couple of time All-American. It's kind of like, I don't know.

I don't know if that's such a good idea. It's not going to be good for your record. Yeah, exactly. When you have the option to go fight somebody who doesn't have that type of a background. Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly.

So, I mean, it was, so that's kind of the story. It was like scraping by, trying to get fights. It's hustling, man. Yeah, and like there was no, there's really, you can't really do anything else you know if you want if you want to do something you got to be all in you know it's like i you know a lot of guys are doing privates at the gym or you know running kickboxing classes or you know whatever it is but i was like you know i had i had a goal in mind and you know obviously i'm i'm old to being to be just starting into the game.

You're 34. Yeah, I'm 34 now. Most guys getting in are probably early 20s. Yeah, exactly. I've noticed that most of the people in our audience come from CrossFit or weightlifting. Those sports are just now getting to the point where you have young guys in it too. Yeah. Especially CrossFit.

Before, it was like you could be 30 and successful. But now enough people have found at a young enough age. The boundaries moving earlier and earlier. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's the same thing

that's happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I always kick myself for not getting into it earlier. Right, right. You know, I was like,

man, I spent way too much time wrestling internationally. But you made a good point. Once you're in, you committed full though. Yeah. Is that because you were trying to go to the Olympics? Yeah. Right? Yeah. Is that because you were trying to go to the Olympics?

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Spent too much time trying to go to the Olympics. I know. What a waste of time. Yeah.

I was making that $12,000 a year. Couldn't say no to that. At least you're chasing something that is worthwhile. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what it was about.

It wasn't about. And it sets you up for now. This is not all wasted time. This hustle's got you to where you are now. So you were having a hard time. You weren't getting that phone call from Dana White. No, yeah.

And from what I was told, you were kind of on the edge. You were like, maybe I should just give this up. Oh, yeah. I mean, I got to the point where my bills were starting to take me over. And I was lucky enough. I'm living at my manager's place. He's like, just stay with me. We'll see what we can do.

And he believed in you. Yeah. I mean, it took a great amount of belief in me for him to make that kind of sacrifice. You're missing teeth, for God's sakes. Yeah, right? That's a good point. Stay in his house. It really helps if you can find somebody who – because sometimes you're not going to believe it yourself.

And have somebody who really believes and can see things from a little bit higher level and say, look, man, just keep going. You're like this close. Just keep yourself. Yeah. And have somebody who really believes and can see things from a little bit higher level and say, look, man, just keep going. You're like this close. Just keep going. Yeah. And Ryan,

you know, Ryan Parsons, he's my manager and he's, he's, you know, sometimes he would be, he'd be that voice

in my head that would say, you know, oh man, he did so many things great today. You know, there's,

there's a, such a small percentage of guys that can do what you do. Yeah. You know, it would kind of fuel me a little bit. Yeah. Keep me going. But like, yeah, yeah i mean i got to the point where i was like you know i

really i don't have any i didn't really have any bills i didn't have a car like i sold my car i refuse to sell my bike though a man's got to draw the line yeah so i'm like you know i'm living in orange county california and i'm riding everywhere on my bike. It's like it's just not – it just didn't work. Things are a little spread out compared to some places. Yeah, and it was like, you know, I was just watching my bank account just dwindle away, and I'm just like, man, you know, maybe there's something better. You know, maybe it's not going to happen. Right. Meanwhile, you can't get any money because nobody will fight you?

Is that what was happening well why couldn't you get a fight it's not like i was getting paid you know big money to fight but um so even if you got a fight didn't matter it just wasn't enough money yeah i mean it was yeah um but yeah don't just just because of a wrestling background you know everybody's kind of like i don't think i want to mess with you know coming up through um so nobody wants to lose to a guy who's what two, 2-0 or something like that. It looks bad to lose to somebody who's brand new, but you're not brand new. You've been wrestling for 15 or 20 years.

So you're good, but nobody knows that because you're not a big name yet. So it's like you lose to a guy who's good, but that doesn't have a big name, and it looks bad. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's the formula. You win those. Maybe you're like, okay, I'm 8-0, and my last two fights, I need to beat somebody that's got a decent record,

so it looks good for me. So I'm picking fights with everybody, everybody in my weight class from every state. We got a list from every commission, from every state of all the 205-pound fighters. And just slowly we just started ticking them off the list. We would call someone we call, or we call if they had management or there we call their gym you call them names you know I mean and it was like it was such an unbelievable struggle. We had easy 50 guys say, no, no thanks.

Yeah. And it just became this whole thing. And I was like, okay, at some point I've got to think, this is not meant to be right now. Right. But towards the end, I ended up getting a job at a coffee shop because I'm so broke. And I need to start the little bills that I had. You know,

I got to feed myself. I got to, you know. It slows the bleeding. A little bit of cash can slow the bleeding. Yeah, exactly. So, and, I mean, working a minimum wage job

at the coffee shop down the street isn't, you know, it's not. And it's got to be really tough because you're sitting around making some guy fucking macchiato,

whatever, caramel this, that, soy free. Yeah, they pull through and they're pouring. They're going, come on, man. The goal is to be on UFC and I'm pouring this fucking asshole coffee. How do you keep focused through this time? I know. Yeah, it started to make me feel like, you know, I'm seriously working a drive-thru window for minimum wage.

And, like, you know, I'm just like. College degree. Yeah, like, yeah. You went to Penn State? Yeah. Yeah, and I'm just like, college degree. Yeah, like, yeah, college degree. You went to Penn State? Yeah, yeah, and I'm just like,

I should be doing something better with my life. What did you major in college? I was a fine art major. Yes. So,

maybe I didn't have that big career path That's the type of major that gets you the big bucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You go over job interviews, well, I majored in art, I like to fight and punch people, I make a hell of a latte. What do you got for me? Not many offers there.

Maybe UFC is where you should be focused on. But it's a good lesson. If you want to get the goal, fuck man, you'll do whatever it takes to keep things going in the right direction. This was the last shot. So what was the breakthrough? I had this job at the coffee shop, and it fit my schedule perfectly.

Well, I mean, some people might argue that. I started work at 3.30 in the morning, and I was done by 9 o'clock. So my first session of training is 10, so I could make it to training. And then I'd take a nap during the day, train at night. So it worked well, you know. But, you know, not for a sane person. Nobody was always like, yeah, sure, I'll get up at 3 and go down, jump on my bike and ride down to the coffee shop and put in a shift,

bake some croissants and serve some people some coffee through a drive-thru window. But I think I probably did that for about a month. I remember one night before going to bed, I found out that Daniel Cormier is fighting. I forget who he's fighting. Oh, Rashad Evans. That's the big fight. And really, really late minute,

I think it was 10 days out at that point, they said Rashad pulled out with a knee injury. And I think he tore his ACL or something. And a big unknown opportunity you could never have seen coming. But here it is. Yeah. And, you know, I didn't think anything of it. And Ryan's, you know, we're kind of talking back and forth.

He's like, you know, maybe he's like, would you would you fight Daniel? Because, you know, I have a history with Daniel. I wrestled with him. And, you know, We trained together at the Olympic Training Center quite a bit. We had the same goals in mind. He obviously made the cut, made it to the Olympics. But we were in the same crowd of people. So we're friendly with each other. I was like, yeah, I'll fight that guy.

And I was completely dead serious. Like, yeah, I'll fight that guy. And I was completely dead serious. Like, yeah, I would take that fight. And not thinking, oh, this could be my shot or this is what's going to make it happen. Just jumping on the opportunity. Yeah, yeah. So I sent out a little innocent tweet. It was like nothing.

I heard it wasn't innocent. Andy's laughing. From your view, I thought it was fine. Yeah, it wasn't innocent. Andy's laughing. From your view, I thought it was fine. Yeah, it was all right. No, because he's, the whole thing, the reason why he came down to 205 from heavyweight

is because he didn't want to fight his buddy or his brother, Kane Velasquez, who's the UFC champ at heavyweight. So, you know, I just said, hey, you know, I'm friends with Daniel. I'm friends with DC, but, you know, we're not brothers. I'll fight the guy, you know, whatever. It's just hey, you know, I'm friends with Daniel. I'm friends with DC, but, you know, we're not brothers. I'll fight the guy, you know, whatever.

It's just like, you know, something that, and at the time I have like 300 Twitter followers and like, you know, like. And somebody tweets back, ooh, snap. And I get excited like, ooh, I got a favorite on that tweet. Yeah, like I'm doing something right. That was like a thousand retweets? Yeah.

Oh, shit. So, you know the next morning I'm going to I go to work super early in the morning and um get the croissants out

get the croissants out everything's normal yeah yeah put them in the proofing oven and uh it's like all of a sudden

you know and I'm like you know I'm working away I'm not really you know I keep feeling my phone kind of vibrating and you know I'm just like I was way too busy sudden, you know, and I'm like, you know, I'm working away. I'm not really, you know, I keep feeling my phone kind of vibrating. Yeah.

You know, I'm just like, I was way too busy at work. You know, I'm like seriously working the bread and shit. Yeah. I gotta get the muffins done. And you know,

the boss is going to take, take money out of my sweet paycheck. If I burn the muffins. So, uh, you know, my phone's ringing in my pocket I'm I'm at the drive-thru window serve you know serving coffee to people and um you know I think I think I got

you know I went on break and I see like wow like my my twitter's kind of blowing up right now and like I you know I didn't realize what was going on but you know I had 15 minutes I'm flipping through it and um you know it's like but I didn't have enough time going on, but I had 15 minutes. I'm flipping through it. But I didn't have enough time to really look into it and be like, oh, this is why my Twitter's blowing up. I just kind of was like, oh, a couple people retweeted what I tweeted. Whatever. No big deal. So back to work.

My manager keeps calling me. I keep looking at my phone. I'm like, you know I'm at work like what are you doing it's quitting yeah you know I'll be done I'm done he's probably losing his fucking mind yeah he's like answer your phone answer your phone yeah so I'm like I'm done in a half hour bro you know like I'll call you back just chill so next thing I know this he he busts through the the door of the coffee shop and like, you guys all know Ryan, he comes busting through, he's in like, he's basically in his jammies, you

know, he's like, he's got sweatpants on and like his like t-shirt that looks like, you know, if he had hair, it'd be all like matted down. And he's just like, he's like, do you, do you want to take this fight or not? You know? And I'm like, Oh, I'm like, you know, I told you, you know, whatever. And he's like, it it could it could happen he's like you need you need you know he's like he's kind of shaking and i'm just like what's up man like relax like i got i got 15 more minutes of work just chill we'll handle this later you know like my boss is looking at me like really angry and um

so he's you know he busts through the door and does his whole thing. And he's like, if you're serious about this, you've got to take this call right now. And like, no introduction. It's like, just take the call. And I'm like. Life is presenting you the opportunity. You don't quite know, but you've got to jump on it or not jump on it. Yeah, exactly. you don't quite know but you gotta jump on it or not jump on it yeah exactly so I look over my boss

and she's like you know what just just punch out and get out of here you know like we don't need you anymore and I was like

did I just get fired you know I was like what but I'm like you know whatever I gotta so I grab the phone from my manager

I meet him outside and I all of a sudden I'm talking to Dana White on the phone. It's like that call came. It was so weird. And he's like, hey. CEO of, is that the title? CEO of UFC?

I think the president. President of UFC. Yeah. So he's like, tell me about this, man. He's like, and he knew the whole back story. Apparently, while I was at work, my manager's feeding these stories to you know all the media you know ariel hawani is is like doing a manager's job yeah and he's so he's creating this whole backstory i'm like and at first i'm like wow that tweet i sent was really something you know but no like he's

he's on the backside you know like feeding like feeding stories. And, you know, so, you know, Dana White's all of a sudden is like, hey, you know, I heard you made Daniel Cormier cry in training. You know, what's that all about? And, you know, I'm like, hell yeah, dude. So he's like, you know, you willing to tell that story and run with this? I'm like, yeah, man, let's do it. Can we run some gladiator music over the story? Yeah, yeah, yeah. let's do it. Can we run some gladiator music over the story? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cue the theme music.

So yeah, I talked to him really quick and he's like, all right, we'll send over a contract. And like, that's nine days out

from the fight. Well, how life can change quick, man. It was crazy. That night, I was on live Fox Sports Live like talking trash.

So the morning you're making croissants, the same day, and then that evening you're talking shit to the champ on TV. Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's quite sweet. You fought nine days later. Yeah. How'd that go?

Well, it could have gone better, you know. By the way, nine days notice. Most fighters are at least eight weeks of of notice and and have this big preparation strategy so nine days is super short notice there's a lot to do before yeah in that case you're not fighting the same guy that you wrestled years ago right yeah exactly but also you know i i was kind of naive to the whole thing i didn't realize what a training camp could do because at that time you know i know, I'd be getting ready for a fight or I'd be training, but, you know, I never had a full camp

because I never actually knew if the opponent was going to bail on me or not. So I didn't really understand. I'm like, what are these guys talking about fight camps for, you know? Well, can you describe to us? Just stay healthy, you know? Most people have no idea what a training camp is. So what does a training camp look like? You obviously, I'm guessing you did a nine-day training camp.

Yeah, it was. Okay, just don't do anything to make weight. You've had three fights since then. What do the training camps look like? Well, it's, I mean, a training camp then, it was nothing. It was just kind of like just maintaining our training and kind of ramp things up and then pull back before the fight so you're fresh but you know a training camp now is you know you do six to eight weeks of you know you train hard training and it's kind of all it's all sequenced you know you're like you're doing you're doing your your big

cardio stuff in the beginning build that base and then And then, you know, as, as you get closer and closer to a fight, you know, it's, everything's fast and short. So it's kind of, you know, there's a whole, you know, there's a method to all the madness, you know, you, you go through this thing and, and, you know, you pull back at certain times and you push hard at certain times. And then, you know, probably the last week to 10 days, you really start tapering hard. Yeah. And, you know, you focus on getting your weight down and just feeling fresh. Feeling speedy and snappy and fresh.

Good spirits, good mood. Yeah. And have timing. That's the approach you take with lifting. It's that same basic approach. Establish the base, widen your ability to do work, get more specific, turn up the volume, and then back off and get refreshed and go smash, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, I mean, that's the recipe to peak. Yeah. get more specific turn up the volume and then back off and get refreshed and go smash yeah

that's the recipe to peak you're at your absolute best what's training look like outside of a training camp so training camp

six to eight weeks your life revolves around fighting right how's your life look outside of the training camp does it still revolve

around fighting or to what degree yeah I mean I don't know. It's hard to say because I'm a guy that really, I like to stay in the room and keep training and learning, you know, because I'm young in the sport.

So, you know, I need all the technique I can get. And, you know, I have a real hunger to be in there. Stay surrounded by these people who are giving you the good influence. Yeah, exactly. So I think for other people it it's different i think a lot of people take a decent amount of time off you know they'll have a fight and they'll take a couple months and be like oh you know i just don't want to be in the gym at all i'm just going to kind of do my own thing and i do that to a certain degree but you know i'm kind of i'm a very active person you know like i love to go out ride my mountain bike and you know but at active person, you know, like I love to go out, ride my mountain bike and,

you know, but at the same time, you know, I do that stuff and I love lifting weights, you know, so I'll get back in and do that kind of stuff, you know, work on my strength and work on my cardio and, but mostly, you know, I'm outside having fun, you know, cause in a training camp, you know, I can't ride, I can't go ride my bike. During that eight weeks, all your training is. Yeah, like I don't want to go crash my bike and get all beat up. I'm no good in training today. You kind of have to give up certain things, and then I'll go out.

I kind of want to say this. You've had three more fights. We talked about you took one fight and you lost. You've been in the UFC for a year, but we didn't mention you had three fights since then. So you've had four fights in one year, and you won the last three. Yeah. So you're not bad.

You're actually a pretty good fighter. I don't know why, but they just ranked me 15th in my weight class. A lot of people are like, oh, man, congratulations. I'm like, that's not where I want to be. But, okay, thanks. Like, it shows improvement. But, you know, I believe that I should have went out there and won that first fight, no matter what the situation was.

Yeah. So is that something you're looking forward to, having a rematch with Cormier down the line? Yeah. Always smiling wide. No, definitely. I mean, that's the story we want to sell. You know, like it was an underdog story,

but now let's make it a comeback story. When you can have a real training camp for it. Exactly. He's coming for you. What does your weight training look like during the camp? Or just in general, like what do you do for training in the gym? I train with Maren Sorelli. I actually met her years and years ago at the Olympic Training Center.

And she was a female weightlifter. And she's got plenty of credentials to her name. She's legit. And it's just like a friendly relationship you have with all different athletes at that place. You just kind of make friends and whatever. We would never really stay in touch, but sometimes we'd bump into each other. And then she ended up starting to work with a couple of the guys that I trained with. Some of my buddies would come in and be like, hey, do you know, uh, you know, this girl named Marin? I'm like,

yeah. I mean, there's only one girl that, you know, named Marin that I know of. Only one Marin in Orange County. Yeah. Yeah. He's also an awesome weightlifter. Yeah. Yeah. So we kind of, we got reconnected and, um, you know, so I, I really, at that point I really started amping up my Olympic weightlifting. And also, I like to add an element, like a speed element. And I also like to add, depending on who my opponent is,

a more muscle endurance type of lifting as well. You've had a lot of muscular endurance type of training with a wrestling background that's the traditional approach for resistance training you get a lot of reps yeah you're focusing more on the being explosive now yeah so more of your training has explosive in nature just because of you have so much background in the muscular endurance yeah yeah and so much of what we do is you know it's that long grind you know it's 15 minutes of you know of basically touching somebody or you know feeling resistance and you know it's that long grind you know it's 15 minutes of uh you know of basically touching somebody or you know feeling resistance and you know all that stuff so so what we want

to focus on is is quickness speed and quickness the weightlifting was a recent introduction to your your training right that yeah that style yeah how do you think it's influenced your fighting i think it's not me not not everybody in ufc is doing snatches and clean i mean this is a new introduction yeah yeah and i i was you know all along you know back in my in my days where you know i couldn't afford a gym membership or couldn't afford a strength coach you know i was you know i would just kind of do do my own thing you know but i enjoyed lifting weights but it wasn't quite you know i'd just be like getting creative i'll do a one-arm press and lay on a ball and you know do something weird and just to make myself sore but um i think all that thing all that has a place it's experiment yeah yeah there's no value to that experimental years no but but um but yeah, I mean, through college, I was never –

Penn State wasn't a big Olympic weightlifting program, you know, through all of their sports. You know, their football team, I thought, really suffered from that. Yeah. You know, they did all that high-intensity – H-I-I-T stuff. Yeah, yeah. They didn't have a strength coach specifically at the time?

Yeah, we had a strength coach. We actually – I think after my freshman year, we hired a strength coach. Actually, for the audience, if you didn't know, college strength coaches are actually a relatively new development. That was not the way it's been until the last 10 years. A lot of colleges still don't even have one. Maybe the D1 school do, but the D2, D3 schools, they don't necessarily have a strength coach. Most high schools don't still. And making the d1 school do but the the d2 d3 schools they don't necessarily have

a strength coach yeah and most high schools don't still and making things sports specific too you know like at the at the time when i was in school like there were strength coaches but it was kind of like this is the program we're handing out to every student athlete and it's you know this is our this is what we do and this is what you're gonna do and then so um yeah i think i did that for a year and was just like you know i, I didn't see a benefit from, you know, the, the strength coaches were kind of like, they just want to see you puke or, you know what I mean? It wasn't like, it was just more like, no pain, no gain. Yeah. Yeah. It's that old school attitude. And so we hired, we hired a guy that he, you know, he was all American at Penn state, you know, back in the day. And he also is, you know,

really, really great strength coach. So we hired him on, and I think I was like his experiment because at the time I was really undersized and I was wrestling heavyweight. And so, you know, he was like feeding me diets. You know, he's like, all right, you need to be eating like a maniac all the time. And, you know, here's your weightlifting plan this is everybody else's right but this is this is for you mass on what was different about yours

um it was just much more uh much more heavy you know lower reps i mean at times you know like he he was good about changing things up and and but he was anytime i was lifting he would be there you know because because I was kind of like his experiment, like, all right, if I can, if I can turn this guy into, you know, if I can put 40 pounds on this guy and, you know, do, you know, do something, do something with him, you know, it's going to prove, you know, why I'm here. Yeah. And, you know, he, he did that.

You know, I, I walked into school 200, you know, 200 pounds maybe. And, uh, my senior year I was 265, like, you know, just like, you know, i walked into school 200 you know 200 pounds maybe and uh my senior year i was 265 like you know just like totally maxed out i mean my i don't have like the the biggest frame you know i'm a big guy but not like that no and i just man i'm gonna imagine you're that big i'm like 225 225. yes you went a little past what's optimal, but you settled in. That probably laid. You probably came away with a bigger structure. The muscle is probably still lingering.

It's a good thing to go through. Not optimal for body maybe, but great for setting you up for the success. Yeah, getting that big and then cutting back. Yeah. Kind of set you up for success. It taught me a lot about my body and what I react well to,

you know, as far as nutrition and, you know, everything involved in that. And, and it just, it just kind of forced me, you know, I'm like religious with drinking water and, you know, and I basically do that just cause I'm like stepping in the scale, you know, in front of my coach before practice. And, uh, you know, he's like expecting me to be, you know, a couple of pounds heavier than I was last week, so I'm just constantly chugging water.

That's good. See, coach, I'm lifting hard this week. Yeah, good habit. All the while, he's just like, I'm getting a pee. He's so bad. He gets harder and harder every week. Yeah, there's a chunk even more water than last week. It's an awesome space to go to because strength is such an enduring,

lasting adaptation. Even in the future, if you go through a phase where you get a little skinny, you can't train as much, whatever, as soon as you touch the barbell again, the strength comes back. Oh, yeah. Well, that's what I noticed when I started going back to my, you know, that Olympic-style weightlifting with Maren. You know, I noticed, like, all the little pains I had, you know, like I had, you know,

my shoulder be a little banged up, and I, you know, I was like, man, I can't even do like a real bench press, but you know, and she's like, well, just do it really light and see how it feels. And like, man, it just kind of like, I don't know what it was, but it like strengthened my bones back up. And like, you know, I just felt like all around way healthier than I, than I had been, you know, doing all this, all this other stuff that I was just kind of making up. You know, it was like, wow, I can't believe that. You know, you don't think of like, okay, do a snatch, do some squats, you know, do these kind of what people might call dangerous free weight exercises. Like, man, all of a sudden I feel great.

I feel so much better. You were feeling beat up from the other training. Yeah, exactly. You're doing the big complex movements and all of a sudden it's kind of coming together. Yeah, my rest periods are starting to increase a little bit. I'm not trying to get. And you also said you used to train really frequently and hard. I could say probably

maximum. I get no pain, no gain. More is better. Don't be a pussy. Keep lifting. Keep running. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the school that I came from. So I was like, alright, I got to apply that to what I'm doing. You know, I'm my own strength coach. So super typical wrestling. Super typical wrestling.

Yeah. Make the practice hard all the time. Make the practice hard as possible and the fight feels easy. It makes wrestlers like the toughest athletes, maybe the toughest athletes on earth, but at the same time not exactly the healthiest or the performing optimally. I mean, you may be you may be

so mentally tough that you can push and grind through anything but if you just back down on the training sometimes your performance can be much better oh yeah i'll say that you know like 10 years ago i was way tougher than i am now you know just i mean the shit i did was ridiculous i think we were all tougher 10 i mean yeah obviously but like i mean i just look back at all the all the crazy amount you know just the just the sheer volume of what we did not to mention we're pushing to like breaking point almost every you know twice a day i mean it was that was pretty ridiculous you know i look back at that and i'm just like whoa like i could i could put two days of wrestling together in a row, but

man, I'm going to need two days off right after that. You know, nowadays. But I mean, part of that's obviously aging, getting older. How often do you train now? Let's take a break and then we'll look at how your training used to be compared to now. What does it take to kick

so much ass in the UFC? Up next. This is Tim Ferriss, and you are listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. Barbell Shrugged is brought to you by you. To learn more about how you can support the show, go to barbellshrugged.com and sign up for the newsletter. And we're back.

With Durkin. Hey. So we're getting into, Doug was starting to ask and I said, no, we must take a break. We must break. Uh,

yeah. What is, uh, what's your training look like now compared to, I guess you went from wrestling and now you're in UFC and when you're wrestling,

you didn't have control over your strength coaches and your coaches. Now, now that you're in UFC, you know, you've got Ryan Pars have control over your strength coaches and your coaches. It's all a bit tense. Now that you're in the UFC, you know, you've got Ryan Parsons kind of managing a lot of your training. Yeah. You're working somewhere with Andy Galpin.

Yeah. There's Dr. Andy. That's how we found you. Yeah. And, yeah, so what's it look like now, and how do you feel about it? Well, you know, I think an important part of MMA training now, well, mistakes that people make is, you know i think i think an important part of of mma training now a lot well mistakes that people make is you know since there's so many different aspects that you need to that you need to train you know i gotta do my jiu-jitsu i gotta wrestle i gotta do my kickboxing you know

or muay thai i gotta do my boxing you know there's like so much i gotta do my strength training i gotta you know i gotta make sure i'm getting my running in or whatever it is. It's like, okay, you can't fit all that into one day. And also all those specific things are controlled by a different person. So if all those people aren't communicating, you're going to be overtrained. Your coaches have to talk. They're all trying to give you the best possible experience. They all might be pushing you to the limit when you're with them, not knowing that the other guy's trying to do the same thing, eventually wearing you out. Yeah, like your boxing coach isn't going to bring you in and say, you know what? You don't look fresh today.

Why don't you just, you know, let's just do a round and we'll send you on your way. Yeah. Because, you know, they want to say, oh, you know, I did a great, I had a great workout with Pat today and, you know, whatever else. Because becoming tired

is more likely to hit you harder and push you harder, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like, if they do that too, like, they might be like,

oh, you look kind of tired. Why don't you just go home? You might walk away thinking like, was he actually just tired and he just wanted me to leave? Now he's taking a nap

and what am I paying that guy for? Is he fucking with me? Do I say, no, I'm going to fight. What's going on? Is he playing head games with me? And that's taking a nap, and what am I paying that guy for? Is he fucking with me? Do I say, no, I'm going to fight? What's going on? Is he playing head games with me? And that's one of the many important things that Ryan Parsons does for me.

He acts as a head coach. So he oversees everybody, communicates with everybody, and he'll say, hey, I was with Pat this morning. He's not moving his feet real well. Why don't you, you know, ease back on him? And it's kind of without me knowing it. Yeah. So I think, you know, in a certain way, ignorance is bliss for me.

You know, if I don't. Well, it takes a burden away. You can focus on the training. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to worry about what the coach is thinking about you. Yeah. You don't have to worry about that communication. That's all taken care of.

You just show up and do what you're supposed to do. And that's what the most successful athletes have just believe in what they're doing and attack it and hopefully the head coach is in charge the whole time and leading you and Ryan is that guy and we've known each other long enough he knows me as well as I know myself

when it comes to training I would say he almost knows me better than I know myself because I'll kind of get stubborn and, you know, be like, I'm going to work through this, you know. Right. And he's learning, not just physically, but he's learning as a person, like what's going on in your life,

what are you struggling with, what are you sitting at. Yeah, exactly. He's weighing all that and how the tweaks need to be made, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he, yeah. So he knows every, you know, he has a 360 view of what's going on in my life and, you know, in my training. And I think that's a super valuable thing, and I think a lot of guys don't do that. Yeah, and for anyone listening to this, if you're a CrossFit athlete,

you should be using this as an example of how you can, you know, alter your training as a CrossFit athlete, where if you have a gymnastics coach and a weightlifting coach and a running coach and any other coaches, you still should have one central head coach that's communicating with all the rest of those coaches to have the best possible training experience. So this isn't just about MMA necessarily. No, yeah.

This will be about being an athlete. Anytime you're trying to get good at a lot of disparate things, a lot of things that are competing for your resource and your attention, somebody's got to manage that, and it can't be you. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, my inclination coming into it is like, I got wrestling kind of locked up here. I need to learn how to punch somebody or, you know, I need to learn how to kick.

And, you know, initially that was kind of let's introduce that and, you know, kind of be heavy on, you know, obviously you've got to learn, you know, some combinations. You've got to learn how to throw a punch. I learned earlier today that you can throw a punch. You got punched in the liver. No, that was a solar plexus. Solar plexus.

We changed it up. I took a liver shot and a solar plexus. You're going to bite my shoulder. Yeah, watch the intro to Ryan Parsons' episode. He's going to bite my shoulder. Oh! Yeah, watch the intro to Ryan Parsons' episode. Three seconds in, you'll be glad you pulled up the episode. I got caught off guard. By design.

We didn't tell you that. We totally said, hey, dude, when he gets to two and a half, punch him as hard as you can. I thought I was going to get punched like 10 seconds into it, but I got punched like two seconds into it. I thought I was still talking. And then you tried to justify why it was a good thing afterward. You're like, it's good to get punched in the stomach every once in a while.

I think it's good for you. I feel more alive now than I did before the punch. It was invigorating. It's like any time a human faces death, they never felt more alive. Exactly, yeah. I think I had to pat you on the back so are you spitting up

green bile now are you okay buddy it's good punch yeah so what do you think so what do you got coming up next

um no uh nothing really I'm just kind of like in uh in chill mode a little bit you know

just kind of getting back into training I banged up my knee just a little bit in the fight so just kind of getting back into training. I banged up my knee just a little bit in the fight. So, but kind of, you know, normally... When was your last fight? December 20th.

This hasn't been that long. No, it's been about a month. So this is basically kind of like an off season. That's a month ago for the audience. Yeah, so you're taking stock of what went good

and bad in the fight. You're saying, what needs to be, like, where am I slipping and maybe my general work capacity needs to be widened again before I get back into a training camp. So you're just taking time to see what you need to do?

Yeah. I mean, yeah, at this point, it's good to be super critical and say, you know, how could I improve on what I did? Being 15th in the world, I guess, 15th in your weight class in UFC, how long does it typically take for someone in your position to try to get that title fight? I mean, you don't have to climb 15 spots because that's shifting all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. It kind of depends. There's no set recipe. But I think if you go up there and beat up two or three top ten guys and do it impressively, that's worth the conversation. How many more hasn't been has not been embraced in the crossfit community is watching uh recordings of themselves in competition some people definitely do do it but by and large as a group or as a community it's not really like like something that you're just expected to do like how much of that do you guys do quite a bit yeah yeah i mean

after after every fight i mean that's that's really all you have to to go off of you know you don't you don't know who your next opponent is you can't watch any film on that guy you know it's it's kind of like all right work on work on getting yourself better and i mean that's the easiest way to do it is okay i'm gonna to watch what I did in this fight and see what I like, see what I don't like. So, yeah, do you guys formally sit down? How often after the fight would you do that? I guess Ryan will sit down with you, analyze what happened, of course.

Yeah. Then maybe do you set action items and spot weaknesses and things that will sort of guide and loosely shape the next four months, six months of preparations, what have you? Yeah. Yeah, to a certain degree. And then, you know, you kind of throw a monkey wrench into it when you say, all right, now you're fighting this guy who's good at this,

you know, or this is his specialty. So it's kind of like, all right, we've got to tailor our training towards this. Like my last fight, I knew I'd be grappling quite a bit. So it was kind of get that endurance back up. I did a lot of gymnastic training, did a lot of circuit stuff, rope climbs. Just kind of get your forearms ready for

you're trying to control somebody's wrists and you're wrestling around with somebody on the ground for 15 minutes. Yeah, grip strength and endurance. I was highly qualified to a good wrestler. Andy said you had, grip strength and endurance is highly correlated to like a good wrestler. Just talking, man. Andy said you had amazing grip strength.

And also said, what, eight liter lung volume on this guy? What's normal, Andy? You said something like four or four? Yeah. Damn! Double the lung volume of average person. He has the largest lung volume he's ever seen. He was like, you should be seven feet tall.

So if you can move. If you can move. Then it's probably good that, was like, you should be seven feet tall. So if you can move... If you can move... It's probably good that you're not seven. You got the lungs of a seven-footer. If you got strong, healthy hands and you can move air, you're a bad motherfucker, I guess. I remember the first wrestling match I ever had when I was in seventh grade, maybe.

I walked off after four minutes when you're in junior high or something like that. It wasn't very long. I walked off and I couldn't close my hands. I was just like, what's wrong with my hands? I think I broke my hands. I just couldn't close my hands. My grip strength when I did jiu-jitsu was definitely a lot better than it is now.

That's one thing you don't see. You don't see a ton maybe in CrossFit. I guess there's not a whole lot of talk of how important it is to have strong hands. I don't think it's talked about, but a lot of people are focused on it, just being able to hang on to bars for kipping pull-ups

and then turn around and be able to pull deadlifts and stuff. Oh, yeah. So it's something that manifests. Yeah. I've had to work with athletes specifically for grip strength,

but it's one of those things you can't have them, you don't want them hanging overhead for too long because then you're going to tear up the shoulders, so then you've got to go to farmer's carries.

There's other ways to train grip strength but and then you can do like top holds with a dead uh you know deadlift and then like you know five second hold at top go down come up so it's more of a grip you're still doing deadlifts but you're working on your grip and there's definitely ways to do that i don't know what are some ways you do to i mean have you ever focused on grip or are you just naturally strong grip strength? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of one of those things that's transferred from just wrestling for so long. Yeah. You know, you leave a practice, you know, like a two-hour practice

where you're doing long, hard live goes. And, you know, you feel that – you know, like you said, four minutes. You know, my first match I got off the mat, I couldn't move my hands. You know, it's like you said, four minutes. My first match, I got off the mat. I couldn't move my hands. It's like you want to get to that point, I guess, and that built your strength. It was never like you fight. Okay, rest.

My hands are totally destroyed, and I can barely close them. That's like, okay, ready, three, two, one, another round. After doing that for a couple years, and maybe in your case all your youth, your just gonna be tough as nails yeah yeah i mean we would okay you know occasionally you know like you you do the wrist rollers or you know whatever that yeah back in the day yeah way back most impressive things you do in the high school gym man yelling screaming all you gotta do is get a wooden dowel, just cut off the end of a broomstick,

drill a hole through it, tie a rope, hang a weight. Oh, we do. It works really well. It's a PVC pipe because it's, you know, that big.

Oh, yeah. You can get varying sizes. You can do all sorts of stuff. I totally forgot about that. It's probably a super great one before you train, like to have a better grip on the barbell.

It's a good thing to do a couple times. I don't know if it was, if it actually was beneficial, but for baseball. Oh, yeah, man. Those guys swing that bat. You know what I mean? You flick that wrist a little bit harder when you throw. Yeah, when you go to the music.

When they catch you for the high school photo, you want a huge Ripley arm. Mark McGuire had giant forearms. Fuck it. Just doing forearms all day. I'm doing my wrist curls. I'm popping Andrastina Dion. I'm doing my wrist curls. I'm popping Androstenedione. I'm doing my facial hair red. He's saying creatine and Andro.

Done. Your GNC is like behind the glass. I want everything behind the glass that you have to unlock. You brush your teeth next morning. You brush your teeth. My nipples are super puffy. What is this shit?

My mom said it was just puberty. I was getting puberty when I was like 17 again. Yeah, but mom, is it normal for a little boy to go through puberty twice? Shit, son. Yeah, it's fucked. What are you taking in? My balls are really small. Mom, can I talk to you about something?

Oh, fuck. That's all you want to you about something? Oh, fuck. That's what we all talk about now. Officially derailed. We're just talking about how little our balls are. I was about to say, what do you project the next fight to be? Is it this year? Later in the summer? What are you eyeing?

For sure. I want to shoot to to uh hopefully hopefully a fight in april yeah so not not too you know i don't like to take much time off i'm not you know some of those guys really really like oh yeah i want to take some time get fat and you know for me it's always you know i'm always thinking i want to get to get to the top as quickly as i can and you know i I think doing that, staying active is the most important thing. But also the one thing that I lack when it comes to fighting is experience in the cage. Yeah.

You know, I've had – Do you think it's because you're 34 that you're wanting to take fights so frequently? You really don't have another decade. I mean, yeah, exactly. To a certain degree, my clock's ticking. You don't have another decade. Yeah, exactly. To a certain degree, my clock's ticking. You should have another decade, but a lot of these guys are 24. Yeah.

I think it's a matter of, in order to get good enough to really seriously contend for a title, in terms of the skills in jiu-jitsu and boxing and every other discipline, Muay Thai and everything else, is it generally accepted, like in lifting, a guy who squats a certain amount of weight

has just accumulated so much work over the years. Is there a certain amount of work that's got to get done? Some people just get to these high skill levels just so quick. Can you be an all-natural at some of these things and just breeze through? Or does everybody have to put in a certain amount of work to achieve enough mastery to be seriously competitive? Yeah, I think that's why it's so good to have a wrestling background amount of work to achieve enough mastery to be seriously competitive yeah i think i think um

i think that's why it's so good to have a wrestling background because that's something that is it's very difficult to pick up in a couple years or you know i kind of kind of randomly like oh yeah i'm just gonna see how good i am at wrestling there's i mean you look across the the mma board and george saint pierre was able to pick up wrestling. One of a few. He's never wrestled and Jose Aldo. Those are the only guys that I know that don't have a wrestling background that can still wrestle guys that are

at the highest caliber of wrestlers in MMA. So there are genetic freaks. Freaks in nature. Yeah, there are, but I think when it comes to boxing... I think the wrestler has that work ethic that's just phenomenal. And a lot of that's built in. Kids self-select themselves to be wrestlers who happen to have great work ethic.

And then if you're not self-selecting, that's probably being bred into you. Because you're not going to show up to wrestling practice day after day and not become tough as nails. I also think that it's a little easier. If you're an athlete, I think it's easy to pick up boxing.

It's easy to pick up learn how to kick. Those kind of things. Maybe you're not as savvy in a fight with those things. There are guys, you're not as savvy in a fight with those things. You know, there are guys, I mean, you,

you can watch the glory kickboxing fights and, you know, you see those guys that are just so comfortable and they have so much experience and they're like, they're pinpointing liver shots and doing things that like, you know, I'm, I'm not going to go out there and,

and, you know, just kind of bob and weave and throw, you know, throw a little, a couple of combinations and just watch the guy fall down. Anderson Silva. But one of them. But I can do enough and mix in what I'm good at.

You know what I mean? Because it's not a straight, I'm going to stand here and box with you. There's so many different elements to it. And I think being able to wrestle is super important. Super fundamental, right? Yeah, I mean, it evens the playing field a lot. Do you think the fact that boxing and kickboxing aren't like junior high, high school, college sports

makes it where the level of boxing and kickboxing, especially kickboxing, boxing is more popular in America than kickboxing is. Like just the fact that not that many kids do it compared to wrestling makes the the standard of excellence in wrestling a little bit higher yeah i mean you think about oh yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna join the kickboxing team like it's just i mean you really need to seek that out you know it's like it takes us and it also takes uh you know a special parent you know that's gonna be like sure a son like let's let's introduce you to this you know there's gonna be like sure a son like let's introduce you to this you know

too much today johnny yeah here's your lunchbox i'd like to be the national champion in kickboxing in america like i have no idea what the numbers are but say you got to compete against 10 000 people versus the national champion in wrestling it's like you're competing against hundreds of thousands of people right or something like that like there's just many many more layers of difficulty to go through to be a champion yeah for. It doesn't mean that the champs in kickboxing are bad or anything like that. No, definitely not. There's just more competition in wrestling. Yeah.

It's like to be a CrossFit champ, you know, two years ago when it was brand spanking new, there's just less people to compete against than to be a wrestling champ. It's kind of the same thing. There's just less people to go up against. I got a question for you, man. I asked Ryan this question. He said, I don't know, I guess you should ask an actual fighter

who'd been in a ring. But we described how his role was to orchestrate all these competing things, keep you dialed in, kind of ramp up and bring all the energy and tension of the training camp to a fever pitch and then control it and hold it.

Now, obviously, the idea is to have that be a peak and release in the ring. But in my mind, I imagine this is an emotional moment. You're walking to the ring. You're getting in the octagon. The people drop the bands behind you. You're dancing and prancing in front of another guy. What do you do?

Like, this is an intense moment. What do you do to prepare yourself mentally? What are your little steps walking from, you know, the locker room to the ring? How do you get yourself ready to actually execute the plan and actually fight? I mean, you know, I think if anything, is there clear, like, four to five things you always do? I'd love to hear about it. Well, I think the most important thing for me,

and I'm sure it's different for everybody, is I don't want to get myself too fired up. You know, I want complete calm, you know, like I have a little zen moment and not think about, okay, there's, you know, I'm in front of a big crowd. The lights are on. This is, you know, the cameras are rolling. You know, I don't want to think about that. I want to just focus on me and how I performed in the past at my best and that's that's super calm but also at the same time you know like relaxed but ready

ready to to move when i need to and and so staying warm you know i think that's a big deal it's like timing your timing your warm-up perfectly is is kind of difficult you know you don't want to you don't want to do too much but at the same time you don't want to do that's the temptation yeah yeah dance around back there too much we see that in competitions all the time people warm up usually too much yeah yeah i don't want to be hopping around and and i'll say you see that weightlifting but in crossfit i think it's too little it's different in fighting too like you might have three fights before you all go the full three five minute rounds or it might be three two minute knockouts and so is it an hour away or is it 10 minutes

away i really don't know exactly yeah yeah yeah yeah and then yeah and then there's like there's three, five-minute rounds, or it might be three two-minute knockouts. And so is it an hour away or is it ten minutes away? I really don't know. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's a TV schedule too, so sometimes they're going to hold you. You're ready to go. You see, oh, that was a quick fight. I'm up.

And it kind of gets you worked up a little more. And then they say, oh, hold. We've got ten more minutes to waste. And that will physically exhaust you if you're not right on top of the middle game. What do you say the fear level is, 1 to 10, when you step in the octagon? I don't feel any at all. No fear? Yeah, because it's just I'm not focused on what this guy is doing.

Nothing negative. You're focused on. I'm focused on all of me. This is what I need to do to go win. guy's doing or nothing negative you're focused on i'm focusing all on me you know it's just this is what i need to do to to go win and it's not like we feel like if you started focusing on the other guy that's when fear might creep in and negative negative ideas yeah well they say absolutely rule number one anything that is definitely outside of your control if you obsess about that it's going to eat you away and distract your performance things you cannot control you cannot concern

yourself you gotta fucking prepare work, come up with a plan, and believe in that you can do your best. That's about all you can do. Do you think that's a natural inclination you have, and that's why you've kind of been successful this whole time, because you're always just kind of focused on what you can control? Or is that something that you learned over time? Yeah, it was definitely learned.

I remember in high school getting ready for a wrestling match and just being like amping myself up to like the point of no return. You know, I'm just like, you know, I got that high school testosterone running through me hard. And I'm just like trying to be mortal. Yeah. Man, you anybody you can keep that up for two minutes max. And then you're just like, whoa. I just lost everything. And that's usually, you don't want that moment coming, right,

when a guy's like throwing fists to your face as you pin down. Like, oh, jeez, I warmed up too hard. I was too psyched. Now my face is hamburger meat. Yeah, yeah. So I think a lot of people's perception is like, man, these two guys are angry with each other. There's so much heated emotion coming's perception is like, man, these two guys are angry with each other. You know, there, there's,

there's so much heated emotion coming to, you know, it's like, no, you just, you're, you're out there to execute. And it's, it's,

um, you know, how do you do that best in anything? You're calm. You know, if you're, if you're letting your emotions run wild, you're,

you know, you're not going to also when you give yourself permission to say, I'm having a good time doing this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think you start overthinking things or you start having thoughts in your head

during a fight, you're not focused. Right. Right. And my first fight in the UFC, I remember thinking, wow, I'm standing here with this guy and I think I'm actually winning. I just landed a wow, you know, I'm standing here with this guy, and, like, I think I'm actually winning. Like, I just landed a couple kicks, and, like, shit, this feels good.

Holy fuck, I'm winning. That was the best beginning of the end. Yeah, I mean, it was all down over there. It was like, whoa. Yeah. I mean, it was that thought, like, you know, that I attribute to, like, all right, you're just not focused. That thought was the beginning of the, all right, you're just not focused. That thought was the beginning of the end.

Yeah, you're not focused anymore. It always happens like in football. As soon, and you'll know, your precious Seahawks never make this mistake, do they? Where if you take your fucking foot off the brake, and you go, okay, now we're just going to try to keep the win. We've kicked ass. We've got some progress.

Let's not lose the thing. And then you lose the thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. How do you keep yourself from having those thoughts now like i mean it's obviously just maintaining focus but yeah well those thoughts start to come in you're like whoa whoa get back in the fight yeah well

i mean i have my mental cues you know what i mean it's like i'm focused on on my job at hand i know everything almost everything that this guy is gonna is, is going to do. But, you know, I'm, I'm not concerned with that. I'm concerned with what I'm going to do first, you know, and this, but this is what could, you know, when I do this, this is what could happen. So it's just kind of like, I mean, it's almost like you confuse yourself a little bit. You're just like, you know, you have all these, all these scenarios in your head, but you're just, you're super focused on, on what you need to do and how you're going to win the fight that, you know, those, those other thoughts just, there's not even, you know, I don't feel like, oh man, I got to keep myself from thinking, you

know, this guy, cause I'm freaking. Don't think so much. You're thinking too much. Oh shit. I'm thinking too much. I'm not thinking too much. Yeah. Yeah.

And we work with a guy, um, at, at Andy's school, uh, Lenny, Lenny Wurzma, he's, he's the sports psychologist and he, man, he is like, he's legit. You know, he, he helps us focus on, on those things that, you know, will calm us down. We're in that situation or, you know, any, maybe any distraction that could come into your head or, you know, any doubt you have, he's, you know, he's like, well, let's discuss that. And, you know, here are some things that you can do to keep those things from coming into your head. I think that'd be a practical thing for people to take away. Because they're going to have competitions.

They're going to have tough training sessions. They're going to start freaking out. To have some go-to simple things to calm themselves would be really valuable, I think. Yeah. Well, one of the things that I used to do, um, and this, this goes back to like my wrestling days, um, where, where I also, I also worked with the sports psychologist quite a bit, you know, because I think a lot of people don't realize that it's so much a mental game, you know, everything that it's your state of mind is so important. And, um, you know, I think, I think that's neglected a lot, but, um, you know, one of

the things I remember I used to, I used to be a slow starter in college, you know, I think that's neglected a lot. Yeah. But, you know, one of the things, I remember I used to be a slow starter in college. You know, I would go out there and first period I'd just kind of like, you know, it would take me a while to kind of rev my engine up. And then by the third period I'm doing whatever I want to this guy. And it's like, why didn't you do that in the beginning? You know, like make this impressive. Well, I wanted to get to know the guy, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We gotta be friends first. So, um, no, so I used to, you know, when I would wrestle somebody, somebody good, um,

okay. You know, I'd be a slow, I'd be slow starting. And, and I would, I would, I remember getting to a point where, you know, I'm, I'm like losing the takedown battle. I'd get taken down first, and it was like, this guy has no business taking me down right now. What am I doing? I need to kind of stop all those thoughts and focus. So I just, you know, you go out of bounds or whatever it is,

and you feel like you need to refocus, I would just, I would, and this was kind of my mental cue, is I would look down at my shoelaces and just kind of, you know, do it for like a long second or two. Right. And it would just, you know, and that was my cue to kind of, all right, you know, like let's, let's bring it. Yeah. Let's like, let's, let's bring everything back in and just, okay, you know what you

need to do. Right. Go out there and execute. And, and I mean, it's, it's super power. I mean, that sounds like nothing, but it's like, it was very powerful.

It's like a teacher coming to a cloudy, like a noisy classroom. Hey, all right. And you go, Oh, Oh, and you kind of get your shit together.

Yeah. That little action type. Okay. This is my reminder. Time to say, yeah, but it's, I mean,

it's something that, you know, I wouldn't say, Hey, you're, you know, if you're doing this event to make sure you look at your shoe, you know,

when you start your work for everybody, it's something you need to it's not it's not the shoe it's the yeah yeah people are gonna listen to this and they're gonna start looking at their shoes and people are gonna be running right past them and look at my shoe i still got crushed that guy's full of shit so a big part of that really is just like like in that moment you're letting the past be the past everything's already happened it's already happened don't fucking worry about you're starting off right now in this moment zero zero and you're letting the past be the past. Everything that's already happened has already happened. Don't fucking worry about it. You're starting off right now in this moment, zero, zero, and you're moving forward. There's nothing I can do about that but move forward and do what I know how to do.

And it is something that's learned. That's my cue to, okay, get things going. No one's going to have this as a natural skill probably in a very stressful stressful situation at least most people won't where they naturally just keep cool now this is a learned skill this is something if you work on it and you drill it'll come right yeah exactly i mean same same as throwing a punch you know like i if i have no no one teaching me how to do it i mean what the hell is it going to look like but you know you have you have someone helping you focus on okay this is these are the mechanics throwing a punch this is quickest way to get it out you know whatever it is it's the same exact thing for your brain you know, you have someone helping you focus on, okay, these are the mechanics of throwing a punch. This is the quickest way to get it out. You know, whatever it is, it's the same exact thing for your brain.

You know, you need to work on that. And I think a lot of people neglect that as well. Yeah. We got one more question before we go. Don't make it a silly question. Are you going to make it a silly question? No, it's a two-part question. I saw the twinkle in your eye.

Let's have it. How'd you lose your toot the first time? How'd you lose it the same toot the second time? The first story's not that exciting, but I think it was the year I graduated school. Andy's breaking stuff in the corner. He's got a PhD, but he can't plug his phone in no

so yeah the year I graduated school I competed it was 2004 so I competed in the Olympic trials that year and I think it was my very first match I was you know wrestling a guy that I ended up beating handily

but it was a guy that you know my warmup match. And he was just, he was like super strong. He's like super strong, stiff guy. So I was just like, eh,

all right, I got this. So, you know, I'm hitting a duck under and, you know, for people that don't know what that is, I can't,

you know, I'm duck, I'm going around behind them. And he was so stiff and like, just like moved very awkwardly. you know, I'm going around behind them. And he was so stiff and, like, just, like, moved very awkwardly. You know, as soon as I did it, he was, like, turned and was just kind of like, wink. And my teeth happened to be right there, like, right in line with his elbow. So I was like, doink. My tooth, the whole thing didn't break off initially.

It was, like, kind of three quarters, like, at an angle. Yeah, like a dumb and dumber, like, Jim Carrey didn't break off initially. It was like kind of three quarters at an angle. Yeah, like a dumb and dumber, like Jim Carrey's chipped tooth thing. I did that to somebody once. I knocked out like three quarters of their tooth. They had to have, you know. It wasn't something that you can just bond. So they had to have the whole thing done. I was like, yeah.

Oh, hey, it looks okay, man. I can't hardly notice that. I know, but actually the. That would make you feel bad. It was the first, you know, it was my first match in the trial. So there was – you know, if I'm going to go win the trials, I have like four more matches to go. And I don't know if you've ever had like nerve pain in your – from a tooth.

Like you hurt as bad. I've heard it's back to a cool popsicle or something. Yeah, exactly. Or like, you know, a cool breeze coming by your open tooth hole. It's like, ooh. Like you don't want to breathe. I've heard it hurts to breathe. I know some of these have like their forefront teeth like knocked out like that.

And they have just exposed nerves the whole time. Yeah. Hi, Derek. So the rest of the tournament, I'm warming up. And, you know, you guys all see me with my water bottle. I'm all constantly drinking water and, you know, warming up, staying hydrated for my matches. And I can't get water into my mouth without it hitting that tooth hole

and, like, you know, striking that nerve. So I'm just like, oh, I don't know what to do. So I think in between rounds I went out and had lunch or something. I took a straw and, like like a cup from the restaurant and like, I'm warming up in the back and I'm like very carefully, you know, I'm warm. I'm bouncing around,

warming up with drilling with somebody or whatever. And then I stopped very carefully, put the straw in my mouth and I'm like, suck it back. And then I was like, tilt my head back. There's no way water is getting in this area. So it was so it was

it was pretty brutal but you know like when you're when you're out there wrestling it's kind of like yeah you're breathing heavy and that's gonna

that's gonna hurt but you know your adrenaline's pumping enough that you're not gonna feel it so how'd you lose it the second time so

so I heard that was the first story is not that good the second story is what's supposed to be funny this is the better one so you know eventually my tooth gets all cut out and I have to have a flipper, which is a retainer with a little fake tooth stuck on the front of it. So, you know, that's what I wear to look handsome.

We're not laughing at you. No, no. With you. With you. We don't get punched, so we're not laughing at you no no with you with you so we don't get punched so we're laughing together as a friendly family

yeah so I just I just I just competed overseas I think I'm maybe in like Azerbaijan some you know

some place where you wouldn't be like wait that's a country yes it's a eastern European country and it's a great place to vacation i recommend it to

anyone um no not really it's a little gray it's a lot gray yeah so uh i'm on my way back and i'm i'm coaching at the time you know to supplement your income when you're competing as you know in wrestling is you know you're a coach at a university or whatever and you know it gives you opportunity to train with with the guys in your team or you know whatever so i ended up i visited my my family up in pennsylvania and i was coaching at virginia tech at the time and uh so i drove up flew out of philadelphia to go overseas and when i came back um um, I flew into Philadelphia and had to drive back down to Virginia Tech. So I, you know, my sleep is so jacked up at this point. I came, you know, came back overseas and it was just kind of like, Ooh, and I went to bed

and, you know, slept like two hours and I'm wide awake in the middle of the night. And, you know, the next day, my, my head coach calls and he's like, Hey man, we really need to get back here. What are you doing? You know, I'm like, well, man, we really need to get back here. What are you doing? I'm like, well, I'm kind of trying to adjust to the time. And I was thinking about coming back tomorrow. And he's like, man, it would be really nice to have you today or whatever it was. He wanted me to come before I was really ready. And so, of course, I'm driving back.

And I start to like – it's not like, oh, yeah, I was dozing off. It was like, man, I would just, like, the lights would just shut out, and I would be like. Wake up. And I'd wake up like, oh. Exit down the road or something? Yeah, like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like hitting the road. We're almost tripping on the side of the thing. Those junk bumps are there to keep you awake.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's what I tell my wife all the time is, you know, If I'm hitting them, they're there so I don't run off the road. I can take naps. It's a friendly reminder. So I ended up actually, I think I was only like, it's probably about a six and a half hour drive. And I was like maybe 20 minutes from my house. So I'm like almost there. I felt, I pulled over once and like kind of like got myself I'm like hey

you know smack myself in the face you know quit falling asleep what's wrong with you you know like you're tougher than this you're gonna fucking die dude yeah yeah so I'm all windows down it's kind it's cold out you know it's like the fall or something and when the the music's cranked all the way up yep and just completely, completely like out to nothing's going to wake me up. And I'm just like, and so, uh, I, I come to, and I noticed, I'm like, something doesn't feel right. I'm S I'm in the grass.

Like there's a big section in between the highway. I'm in the middle, like the middle middle i'm in the grass sliding around i wake up and immediately i'm scared so i just stomp on the stomp on the brakes and man i start like my my rear end starts coming around i'm just like okay like let off the let off the brakes for a second let's slowly come to a stop and i'm just like starting i'm like oh man i'm really thankful i woke up and i'm like i didn didn't smash into somebody or whatever it is. And so I don't realize this at the time, but coming up in this grassy area, there's a slight hill forming. And so I'm trying my best to slow down and not slide out of control and trying to veer towards the road. And as I do that, I hit this, this, you know,

hill in the middle of the road. And I'm, I'm probably at this point going like 35, like I'm not going fast at all. And it was like super slow motion. I just like hit this hill, started like teetering sideways and like, boom, just like landing on the top of my roof. It's like a little Dukes of Hazzard maneuver. Yeah.

So I'm like, so now I'm upside down, and like my seatbelt's holding me in place, and I'm like, at this point you go, fuck. Shit, man. You know, like this is, I was so disappointed in myself, you know, like I have that like, I don't know, it's like when you take in the groceries from home, you want to get them all in one trip, you know?

Same thing. Yeah, like get them all on one trip. Same thing. I really just let myself down. I left that bag in the trunk. You sissy. You sick of the sleepiness. Yeah. I wasn't mad that my car was crashed.

I was mad that I didn't make it the next 20 minutes. Meanwhile, you fighters are weird, man. Yeah. Way too many shots to the head. Yeah. I'd be like, I'm alive. Thank God.

Yeah. I'm upset. I'm mad. So, uh, sit, you know, sitting on, on the seat next to me as I'm traveling, I, you know, I take out my tooth because, you know, I don't have anybody to impress on the road. So yeah, yeah. Let's breathe a little bit. Yeah.

Let it breathe. So I'm, you know, I, I, I crawl out of the car and I realized, Oh, you know,

I left my wallet, my phone and my tooth in the car. Like I gotta, I gotta climb back in here and get it. You know, there's like broken glass everywhere and I'm like fishing around through. Where's my tooth? Yeah.

So I, you know, I, I find everything except my tooth. I'm just like, where is this thing? And I remember like asking the cop, I'm like, you know, you have a flashlight. You like help me, help me search around the area. You know, cause I, and, and like he just had, I'm like, yeah, I lost my tooth somewhere. He's like, have you been drinking tonight, son? I'm like, listen, you know, I had, that's a long story, but I lost my tooth.

So I end up not finding it, you know, and tow truck comes. I get a ride with him and make it back to my place. And my car was totaled. Surprise. Yeah, surprise. So I'm like, first, I don't have have a car and i also don't have a tooth so i'm like running i'm running around the hills of virginia like a toothless hillbilly you know and i'm just like man i can't i can't be this stereotype you know and at the you know like you

go to the dentist and you get a get a new tooth made it's like 500 bucks and i'm just like it's a practical bummer yeah this is not good so i'm you know i'm like all right i should probably do that but i also really need to go buy a car so um two-third car yeah yeah it's like which is more important right now um so i i ended up i'm i'm driving up to uh you know like a half hour outside of town to go car shopping with a friend of mine. And on the way back, I'm like, this looks familiar. I'm like, I think this is where I crashed my car. So I'm like, you know what?

Pull over a second right here. So you see like broken glass and, you know, there's like pennies and stuff. Like my change is everywhere. And I'm just like, yeah, this is right where I crashed. This is so weird, you know? Because it was like the middle of the night when I crashed. And so I'm walking around kicking stuff. And then all of a sudden I'm like, what is that under that leaf?

And man, sure enough, I go, bend down. I'm like, my tooth. My tooth. And I like brush it off, stick it back in my mouth. And the guy's like, uh, what the? That's been exposed to the elements for quite some time. You sure you don't want to wash that off a little bit? I'm like, nah, man.

I miss this guy. It's been a couple weeks. And now you know the fighters are an interesting community of human beings. Yeah, and now I just choose not to wear it. I don't care. That's kind of human beings. Yeah, and now I just choose not to wear it. I don't care. You guys got a sweet t-shirt. Oh, yeah. So, on your Instagram, you have

Toothless Tuesday. No Tooth Tuesday. No Tooth Tuesday. But Toothless Tuesday. Yeah. I'll incorporate that, too. I can make two posts in one day yeah that's my thing so follow

follow Durkin on on official official Durkin so you can see his no tooth slash toothless Tuesday and we'll link it all up

we'll link it all up including that sweet video you squirting fluids through the tooth hole into your mouth put that up on the show notes.

I can drink without opening my mouth guys. Yeah. Not to brag. All the ladies are swooning. So yeah. Official Durkin. Yeah. For Instagram.

Or you can also hashtag adventure tooth. Adventure tooth. That's the other entity. Man, I don't know if we keep up all these tooth hashtags, man. Does your tooth hole have its own Instagram account? Yeah, yeah. That's the next step. We're working on that.

That's the next step. Anything else you want to promote before we go? No, no. I mean. Any products? Maybe t-shirts? Yeah. I have a pretty funny t-shirt.

It's my favorite t-shirt in my wardrobe right now. A lot of people say that. They've seen it on the show. I've worn it a couple times, but I've never explained why I'm wearing it. If you see me on the show with a green-ish, tan-ish shirt.

A giant toothless head. Yeah, with a guy with no tooth. Hey, that's me is his shirt you just got dirked for the record it is the most comfortable t-shirt I've ever worn can people buy these or are you they can but I only have extra large right now and I'm kind of like do I restock it no because

I probably had like 25 sales but now people don't want that tooth man yeah yeah I only have extra large and I just at officialdurkin.com you can pick up your sweet t-shirt if you're extra large

yeah if you happen to be an extra large and also in all seriousness do that and help support the guy on his road like we can't wait to see what you do next man I've been fortunate with people helping me along the way you know i've i've uh i did just my last fight i got a nice uh a mountain bike sponsor which i thought i was like man i finally made it you know i mean the company those bikes are sweet yeah and i'm a niner niner is a company and they're man they're just like a bunch of awesome

people they were you know they they support um like a bunch of awesome people. They were, you know, they, they support, um, athletes, but, but, you know, obviously not, they've never really done an MMA athlete sponsorship before. So it was kind of unique for them. But, you know, for me it was like, man, this is, this is the, you know, and you said you felt that, you know, the first time you ever rode one of their bikes, you were like, Whoa, this is so different and awesome. Yeah. And I'm not a big cyclist, but I've, I've ridden my, my fair one of their bikes you were like whoa this is so different and awesome yeah and you know i'm not a big cyclist but i've i've ridden my my fair share of mountain bikes yeah

and i they uh i was given one for a race and it was i was pleasantly surprised how good the ride was yeah exactly you know and like you know i've i've always ridden ridden bikes and uh you know this has been part of my life and you know know, part of, I don't know, staying healthy and staying in shape. Yeah. And, yeah, as soon as I, as soon as I, it was the same reaction I had. As soon as I rode that bike, I was like, wow, this is different. This is why people pay thousands of dollars for a bike, you know. You see a giant, you see a giant toothless man with giant hands and unbelievably voluminous lungs.

Besides you on a car in Orange County on the freeway, go, holy fuck, man, it's Durkin. Nice Niner bike, bro. Good job, Barbell Shrug, bro. Q. Another fucking weirdo, man. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, guys.

That was awesome, dude. Thanks. Now, you know, I said I kind of officially made it with getting some sweet sponsors, but now, being on the Barbell Shrug podcast, that is what – Now you've made it. Now I'm here. Now you've made it.

He's trying to get in our pants now. You're at the top. Plenty of time left in the day. All right. Thanks, dude. Cheers, everyone. Thanks, guys.