Barbell Shrugged - 168- 5/3/1: The Simplest and Most Effective Training System for Raw Strength w/ Jim Wendler

Episode Date: March 11, 2015

Creator of 5/3/1 Jim Wendler joins the show.  Scotch is involved.

This week on Barbell Shrug, we're going to interview Jim Windler, elite powerlifter and author of 5-3-1. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrug. For the video version, go to barbellshrug.com. Me and fucking Hemingway. Fucking Burroughs and Hemingway. It's fucking perfect. We're going to destroy what we create. Welcome to Barbell Shark. I'm Mike Bledsoe.

Get really drunk, hang out in the Keys, and fucking write some books. That's how we roll, dude. Sitting here with Chris Moore. We got Jim Wendler. Hello. Matt Vincent. We are in this luxurious hotel gym. It is nice.

I'm rethinking all my training goals. Yeah, there's no peck deck in here, but you could probably get the job done. You probably could. Judging by the fact that I rolled off this ball, I need to do some stability work. It's just core work. If you do enough core work or go to the Lamaze class, you'll fucking be set. By the way, Matt, if you check out the dudes, you can see their packages better. No, I'm super stoked on it.

I'm rocking a halfie and I wore a rubber the whole day at the Arnold today. Who's got a bigger package, Mike? Me or you? Obviously white dudes. This podcast is out of control before you even get started. Let me just date this. I don't know what month it is or whatever.

So 2012. The year of our Lord, 2015, Jim. What year is it? 2015. Year of your Lord. Don't fucking start with that shit with me.

All right, so. Just so everyone knows, we're all liquored up. A bit. This is another Scotch episode. This is water now, but I had a scotch earlier. Jim, if you'd give me that drink, I'd have one.

You fucking take it, dude. I don't give a shit. Fuck yes. All right. Can I put this down for five seconds? All right, so Jim Windler wrote 531, and I know most of you have picked that book up at some point. And you're probably illegally.

Good move. Because I constantly get hounded Because I constantly get hounded. I constantly get hounded like, how do I use 531? It's not very clear. I know. I didn't see any fucking charts in there. This is what's funny. People want to change it.

They want to go, I want this program, and I want to add a dozen things to it. Listen, your 30 years of experience mean nothing to my four months. This doesn't work. I made it through half of a cycle. I nothing to my four months. She doesn't work. I made it through half of a cycle. I need to switch it up. No games anymore. I got 531.

I want to add some speed work. I also want to add some Fran work. How do I do that? How do I take your program and change it all? You made a CrossFit reference. I just got that. You get it. Fran.

He actually picked it up. I'm impressed. Make your fucking workouts. What's your friend's name? I'll be honest with you. I just don't know any of that shit. I don't. So I hate to be like, Matt is my good friend here, just so you guys know. Good.

I know. I got that. Few people know that I am hopelessly out of touch with half the shit that goes on. He calls me the, the poor Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes is a strength sport. We're actually excited. We're like,

we're gonna be the only guys to get Jim Wendler on camera. Yeah, if we'd have gone to his house, we'd have to clear up piss jugs from his basement. Those are mugs bottles

filled with lemonade as far as you know. I'm saving those. Don't you touch them. Don't you clone me. Still highly anabolic. Dude, my piss gets people pregnant. Even men.

Oh, no. Oh, Jesus. All right, Jim. Jesus. Oh, no. All right, you trained at Westside. Oh, Jesus. I got the scotch sweats.

Can you tell, can you, I think a lot of people have heard of 531. I know most of our audience has heard about 531. They know that you've written it, but they don't know probably much about you. Well, they know the sexy Jim Wendler, but they never put a face to a name. The, well, there's plenty of videos, I guess, but. They're too lazy to look it up, probably. Yeah. It's hard to type in Jim Wendler on YouTube, right?

Too much goddamn work. It's not going to get you anywhere.ler on YouTube, right? Too much goddamn work. Give me results. The shortest story I can give you is I started training. I badgered my dad forever to lift. I grew up in a different time than there is now where Schwarzenegger was the stud.

That was the action movies. Things were a little bit different back then. To me, strength was the answer to everything, you know. And as a young kid, I mean, everyone loves the T-Rex, right? And the bulldozer. It's not because that for any other reason, no one tells a T-Rex when they go to sleep, right? Nothing stops a goddamn bulldozer. They eat Jeff Goldblum.

Yeah. Not even Jeff Goldblum can stop a T-Rex. Facts. I've seen it. I a T-Rex. Facts. I've seen it. I got that. Jurassic Park, it's a new movie. Yes. Well, as Matt knows, I'm a movie snob beyond belief.

We had dinner tonight, and I schooled there. That's all I talked about was movies and TV shows. Anyway, so I think it was the summer before my eighth grade year I started training. And my dad looked at me and said, you know, if you start this, you can't quit. And I was like, all right, you know, whatever. And fortunately for my dad, I haven't quit, you know, because I don't think he thought I'd take it this far. I showed him. I showed him.

Everything hurts. So it started like that. I showed him let's say I showed him everything hurts but so it started like that and then obviously my train was all built for sport yeah because I was you know played

a number of different sports I just wanted to be a great athlete and you know you reach I came from the land of Walter Payton you know he ran hills

and was always in phenomenal shape Roger Craig was a huge influence. Tom Rathman was my hero. And then obviously there's Mike Allstott who was at Juliet Catholic when I was

he was a little bit older than I was. And of course the famous Tony Mandridge who everyone doesn't like. When you saw him, well the funny thing is people say he was a bust. And in the world of the NFL, yes. But were you picked in the draft, Matt? I wasn't recently.

No, any of you guys picked in the NFL draft? So he's done more than most of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, to make a long story short, so everything was done for sport, and I was very, very, very lucky to have a, I guess you'd call him a mentor, a teacher, a friend, Darren Llewellyn, who took me under his wing. The important thing I learned from Darren, other than some of the basic training stuff like squat, clean, deadlift, jump, run, sprint, do stuff dynamically, stuff like that, was for the first year I was in the weight room.

I was in my high school weight room. Even though I was in eighth grade, my dad was a teacher at the high school, so he let me in. I trained. Well, Darren was in there, and Darren didn't speak a word to me for a year. I'm intimidated as shit. I'm a young kid. I'm around all these high school kids.

Second big moment? Yeah. And Darren doesn't say a word to me. This guy was strong as shit, fast, everything. And then he gave me some advice. You should start doing some straight leg deadlifts. And that was it. And then I worked my ass off for another six months.

And he finally started talking to me. And I asked him, why didn't you talk to me at all yeah he's like well you had to prove it yeah right on you know you didn't get to earn advice because as you guys probably well know you guys give advice when you're like and then people take it for two weeks and they fucking leave yeah and uh I learned a very important lesson there that you know you have to earn your right to be accepted or to, you know, to be part of the group. You have to show that you're willing to put forth the effort. Put some skin in.

Yeah. Well, that's honest advice. Like, I get a lot of kids that will ask questions and be like, you know, what do I need to get stronger? And the honest answer is like, squat heavy once a week for the next decade. Yeah. Like, man, it's going to be time under tension that you've just got to build up. And there's no other way around it. You don't get to cheat a program.

You don't get to do anything. Just screw the X's and O's, man, and squat heavy and bust your ass really hard for the next decade. You'll be strong. We'll figure it out. So then after that, high school, I did okay in high school. Darren was also my discus coach. And if you can tell by my massive long wingspan.

You've got this really long wingspan. I threw, I think, 164-ish in that range, which is not great, but, you know... That's better than I threw in high school. I was going to say, I can't tell you that. The first time I tried to shop, it was so fucking embarrassing. Yeah, it's super bummer. It's a lot of shit.

But the discus itself taught me a lot about being patient and just learning how to relax under tension. And that was a huge thing for me because it translated into everything I did for the rest of my life physically. The best way to describe it is you have to be methodical, fast, and slow at the same time. Right, right, right. It's the relaxed part of it. And when you throw a disc or a shot.

No, I lift it, right? Well, the thing about this, the discus is very much like a barbell. Any energy that's dissipated from that motion gets wasted. Right. Okay? And so everything has to be concentrated into that discus. And so I learned that. And I also learned that to be fast,

you have to be under control. Like a lot of guys, when they lift, like I'm going to do a, you know, this set really fast and go crazy. And all that energy is dissipated. If you just learn how to,

I'm not saying relax, but learn how to control and then push all that into the bar. And it's like, you should, I always tell my wife, I, if I have to try, I have failed.

Yeah. When I left, if I have to try, I have failed when I lift. If I have to try at all, it should. Bruce Lee talks about it in Enter the Dragon. I quote it in the new book I'm writing right now, but the best technique is to have no technique, meaning it just comes. It happens, yeah. It just happens, but that's, you know. I actually got that from the great band cattle press i actually

have a sound clip and enter the dragon if anyone wants to listen to some great music this is a uh a metal band oh they're beyond a little amazing amazing and probably one of the best names for an album ever is called hordes to abolish the divine. Anyway, to make a long, hold on, then I ended up getting a scholarship or an appointment, I should say, to the Air Force Academy,

believe it or not. Wow. If you couldn't believe. And you can probably believe that I didn't have a very good time with the authority there. Wow.

I would imagine not. Yeah. But it was a great lesson now that I look back on it. So then I eventually – Those kids have a hard fucking road, man. Like, how the fuck do you play football and also do that shit? Yeah, it's a –

It's brutal. It's not easy. And, you know, I was clearly not cut out for that lifestyle. And, you know, not everyone is. And I found – I eventually left there and – To Arizona, yeah? Went to – walked on at University of Arizona. Walked to Hansco. Yeah. left there and walked on at University of Arizona. Wildcats go.

And it was a tough road because I was not a preferred walk-on or anything. I just showed up on trials day. I did the same in Memphis. It's like a rough road, man. It sucks. Walk-on is a brutal, brutal path. You are lower than low.

The problem that people don't understand when you play college football is everyone that is on the team is a star. Prior. Yeah, right. No one came there sucking. Right. And you don't really realize how bad you suck until you show up.

I remember how fucking fast it seemed the first day of practice. Well, the same step goes to the guys who make it to the NFL. Yeah. I remember my brother Andy talking about that. Like, the second that he got, you know got picked up by a team and went to play football there, he said he remember being in Detroit and this was a terrible team. They were losing every game of the season at that point.

He said he remembers watching one of the guys. No offense, Lyons. But you sucked for a little while. You weren't great. That's your fault. You had Matt Millen as a GM. Dude, he remembers telling me they were at practice one day and there's got like a There's a rookie DB lined up

On one of their veteran receivers And the guy's not great No one knows his name Like runs down the sideline Just Down in this This New rookie DB

During practice Just raping this guy He's all over him The guy reaches back This way And just palms this ball Pulls it in And just starts laughing

And he's just like That ain't gonna work bud Just that different level and just palms this ball, pulls it in, and just starts laughing. He's just like, that ain't going to work, bud. It's just that different level of talent. It's just you're not there. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, I'm trying to make this as soon as possible, but we, we. I ended up getting grave disease, and that is a hyperactive thyroid. And so I ended up, you know. Yeah, like it radiatedated didn't you yeah i had to take it out via radiation so i don't have a thyroid anymore so

anyone that complains about thyroid problems fuck you just don't have one yeah so uh so now you know i have to have another uphill climb because I had lost so much muscle and so much weight due to the thyroid condition. It was horrible. And so I eventually got on track a little bit. And I always tell people this story. I wrote about it in an article. And you talk about everyone has a time that comes in their life, and you have to be able to take advantage of it. And sometimes people don't see it, and they, you know, oh, I wish the coach was this or this or whatever.

Whatever their story is, we played coach was this or this or whatever. Right. Whatever their story is, we played what was known as a scout bowl, and this was on Thursdays. For those of you that are not familiar with college football, on Thursdays is a pretty light day of practice. Yeah, shells and shit. Yeah, all the guys that do play, you know, they run through their drills and do all the other stuff. Take it easy.

The rest of us are in full pads, and we play a big full scrimmage. Now, everyone on the – spitting out ice. That's a party foul on the radio. Yeah. I'm so uncouth, dude. I don't want to ruin this thing. Can't take me anywhere. We played – I just burped.

So we played the scout bowl, and I was scheduled to maybe play because we had all these scholarship guys in front of me and all of them bailed two of them got hurt yeah right some one other guy just left because he didn't want to play so i was like the only running back and dino babers was the oc i believe at the time offensive coordinator and he's like when they're just go in there see what's up. And so I ran all the plays. And just so you guys know. There's a lot of pressure on that moment. Well, the problem is there's two things you have to understand. One, during a scout bowl, there's no passing going on because there's no timing between the receivers.

Right. And two, there's no offense for the other team. You're just running plays against each other the whole time. Super hard, fast. So I ran my ass off. All offense. You know, obviously didn't, you know, did well enough that from that day on, I traveled and played in every game since then.

Oh, nice. And Dick Tomey, the head coach, told the offensive corner that we will, you know, told Dino. Actually, Babers wasn't the OC. He was the running back coach. But anyway, he said, you know, we got to get him on the field OC he was the running back coach but anyway he said you know we gotta get him on the field no matter what he does because he showed that he cared and so I took advantage of that opportunity I had no idea it was coming that day until the minute

you know but I think of something like that like what you're saying though it's not just the fact that you worked really hard it's the fact that you'd worked hard long enough that as soon as the opportunity showed, you were still prepared to take advantage of it to put yourself in a better situation. If you don't do the work,

you take advantage of the opportunity and you don't fucking fail. Yeah. And there goes your opportunity. You said you walked on too? Yeah, Memphis. University of Memphis.

Yeah, I wrote the whole article about this, but you have to understand when you're a walk-on, we had our own fucking locker room. We didn't evenon we had our own fucking locker room. We didn't even get to go in the other locker room.

Oh, shit. And it's depressing, man. And how bad was the hazing your freshman year? There was no hazing. There was no hazing. No hazing? Because they just didn't

recognize you. They have to give a fuck for them to decide to haze you. I will say this. Chris has some great hazing stories. I'll tell it now. Fuck it.

I don't know the whole thing but I got taped up like three other dudes naked. Three other freshmen. That just sounds sexy. Hey, Jim. Here's the thing. I'll tell it now. Fuck it. I don't know the whole thing, but I got taped up to like three other dudes naked. Three other freshmen. Well, that just sounds sexy. Hey, Jim, here's the thing. I'm laying up in my bed.

No, I hate that. That would be awful. Here's what's happening. He calls it hazing. He paid 50 fucking dollars. I've been waiting all day to be taped naked to these dudes.

Just drove downtown to Beale Street. You know, because like, he had a week of camp and then two weeks when everybody else showed up. So three weeks until the camp.

That's a mind fuck. The last day, I'm laying in bed. My feet arches are now convex with swelling and fucking blood and hands, tears and shit. And I hear a knock on the door. I'm laying up in a thing going, fuck me. Fuck me in the ass. Kill me right now. Well, they were going to.

They were going to. And I hear a knock on the door. And the door slowly opens. And I see just like shadowy figures filling the whole fucking like six guys And in their hands, I've got like They have duct tape. They have duct tape. Don't look at me in the eye. They have like a, they have skin cream and shit and all this weird fucking shit. Skin cream?

And I go, it's happening. I go, what's happening? So I had a scene where I'm literally like, they're like, we're stripped.

It's very bizarre. I was taped, I was taped from, with three of the dudes. Like he wasn't stripped before. Three of the roommates. No. I sleep nude with a collar.

Yeah, I've been stripped. I was taped from neck to ankle with like 15 rolls of athletic tape, and they threw us in the hallway, and we're laying there for like an hour. Sexy. And then the special teams coach for the University of Memphis, I could hear him knock it up. His job's coming up.

All these assholes are in bed because it's 94510, and we're going to come around with rubber hammers and knock the fucking doors at 6 a.m., which is pleasant. Three weeks into camp. And he comes is pleasant. Yeah, it's good. Three weeks in the camp. And he comes around the corner. He sees us there. And there's this long, dramatic pose.

He goes, God damn it. What's going on here? They're like, you got a knife, coach? But that kind of experience, walking on, fucking proving yourself, earning your shit, when everybody there is like, fuck you. So walking on was like y'all's name. By the end, it's great.

I just need shit, man. I got two things. I got my fucking leather jacket being a short, slow, nothing, fat nobody.

I was fucking proud of that. And then at the end of it, I ran into a guy I played football with in a fucking airport in Houston. Hadn't seen this guy in a decade.

And he goes, man, is that Sluggo? It was my fucking nickname because they stuck right around the track. And he goes, man, is that Sluggo? It was my fucking nickname because they stuck right around that track. It stuck the first time. That's Sluggo.

In fucking four years I could hear Sluggo. Those guys remember me. You fuck one goat, you know? You're the goat by your goat. I'm really proud of it.

It was like, I survived that and those guys remember as being a guy who fucking survived and stood with that shit. And no matter what kind of crazy shit

they threw at you, you fucking hung in there. Dude, why give your letter jacket to you like you're second to last year? How about give it to you freshman year

so I can enjoy that fucker for three years before I'm out of college and then it's worthless. Yeah, but I mean, that experience is priceless, man. Going through a fucking trial and fire.

It sucks. Just to be clear, I walked on for track and field and none of this happened. You get born right by it. Smooth sailing. Yeah, this happened. We didn't get blown on the race. Smooth sailing. Yeah, smooth sailing. We wore shorts and got to drink water whenever we wanted to at practice,

and we just kind of hung out. You know, the important thing, the one big thing I learned was if you don't matter, you don't contribute, then you don't get to have a say. You don't get to – here's the best way to say it is when you're the starting quarterback and you contribute, you can fuck up a little bit. Yeah. Just like in real life.

Like if you're the head of IBM or you're the guy that brings all the talent in or you're the guy with the $50 million idea, you can show up, work a little late. When you're not that guy, it doesn't work like that. And you have to prove yourself over and over again until you have a purpose. And that was a huge thing with me because I always thought, you know, you grow up

and it's a great idea, like everyone's the same, everyone's blah, blah, blah. It doesn't work like that in the real world. You know, you have to prove yourself and show that you – my dad always said, make it hard for you to not play. There's a great – my senior year, we had a very – we were 12-1 the year prior.

Senior year, we were – I actually had a petition in the NCAA for an extra year of eligibility, but my second senior year, we were 6-6, I believe. And we were running some plays and stuff during practice and i caught a pass much like matt you know i'll go over my head like this yeah nice dino babers was my favorite all-time coach um and i can still hear chills him yelling at me because he was a motherfucker in the best possible way i said and i'll tell you a story about babers real quick here. But Babers, after I caught this ball, just ridiculous.

Right, right. Just got it. He throws his fucking clipboard down. I was like, God damn it, Wendler. You make it impossible for me to fucking play you. Exactly. So I told some Babers stories over the years through my years at EFS and stuff like that. And some of the coaches at Baylor at the time, strength coaches,

were reading it and saw it. And Babers was at Baylor at the time. And so they relayed the message. Hey, you know, Wendler's talking about you. So I get a phone call at EFS and you know it gets transferred to me and I'm like hello he's like Wendler shoot my asshole fucking puckered goddamn fucking sled for an hour. Goddamn. The Ray Crowther sled, you know? Oh, God, dude. Form shiver.

It's funny because, you know, when you're growing up, they tell you sports is life, blah, blah, blah, and it's not when you're a kid because it's just what you're doing that day. Yeah. And it's not for a lot of people when they're done with it, but if you can actually look back and think about things in a broader, bigger perspective,

if you have that ability. There's a huge bunch of lessons to learn. And especially in this day and age when there's not a lot of manual labor or physical work to prove yourself. It's all sitting down, being a lazy son of a bitch. That training and sports is one of the few ways that we can, you know, I always tell people we've become kind of, we've kind of de-evolved as a species. Yeah, for sure. You know.

Soften it. Yeah. And it's obviously, you know, our bodies. We're domesticated, dude. Yeah. Our bodies have changed because of that. We're domesticated. That's fine.

But you lose a lot, you know, A lot of people don't realize this, but when you're doing some of these workouts and stuff like that and you're really pushing yourself hard, it allows you to tap in mentally to a lot of things that people don't have the ability to do anymore. And you can really kind of build some character that way. It doesn't work for everyone like that. It can.

Man, I talk about that with a bunch of people. Training in my garage. You're a garage, you know, training in my garage, you know, you're a garage guy. And so training in my garage by myself, you know, I really rarely have

training partners. And so I get a lot of that. It's like, dude, how do you feel motivated and this and that? And like fucking at the end of the day,

man, like my life, let's just be clear that my life is so soft that I have to make up fake work by lifting weights so that I can hang out with the same decent respect

that my ancestors had physically. That's true. And so I'm not going to listen to my own bullshit of like, I'm tired. I got to sit in my leather-seated truck and drive around today, and I'm just too tired from that with my heated seats. Get in the fucking garage and do your goddamn work. That's what you're supposed to do.

It's funny because my remote starter on my truck is out. heated seats. Like, you get in the fucking garage and do your goddamn work. That's what you're supposed to do. It's funny, because my remote starter on my truck is out. So you just don't leave anymore. The truck doesn't work. Truck's busted, dude. Just burn it in the driveway. I'm out.

I can't go anywhere. But, you know, it's, even beyond training, I still think people need to train for a bigger purpose, like an athletic purpose.

Yeah. You know, I'm trying to... Sign up for something? Yeah, competing's huge, man. Put yourself in that line. Fucking challenge yourself. I have two sons, and I'm old enough to realize that

I want them to be who they are and not what I want them to be. I've come to that realization. I don't want them to be what I want. I just want them to find themselves and find peace. I know I sound like I'm old now because a lot of people are like, I want my kids to lift

weights. I don't fucking care. I don't care. I want them to find some peace. I don't know where I'm going with this. You're going great. You're going just fine. I don't know where I'm going with this. You're going great. You're going just fine. I don't know where I'm going with this. I've totally lost track of the alcohol. The business has served us well so far. You know, I mean, it's just not so important that what your kids do.

Here's what I'll say. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, you're good. I was just firing off. I would really like them to take up wrestling. Yeah. Because, and I love team sports because I think team sports matter,

but there's something about wrestling that it takes some fucking guts to go out there and lose. And because you are going mano a mano and you can't hide. You can't say, oh, my tight end didn't block or exactly this and this. And it's hard because winning is great, but losing teaches a whole lot more too. And I know it sounds old too, but there is something about going out there and getting your ass kicked and stepping back up, shaking the guy's hand. I'm not a guy who's like, you should be a good sport.

You should shake his hand, but you should be fucking mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser. Yeah. You don't have to show it emotionally, although it's very tough for some people. But anyway, it's stuff like that. I think more people should do. Um, and unfortunately at our, you know, when you, once you get out of high school or college, it's not very feasible, but you can still, you know, I always sell people.

And there's still submission wrestling has gotten very big. Yeah. That's, that's, I love that stuff. And I love that there's a, uh, that, you know, the teamwork I think is very important because the one thing I love that teamwork, I think, is very important. Because the one thing I learned about teamwork when I was at the Air Force Academy was teamwork is not doing really well and then blaming someone else. Teamwork is taking the guy who fucking sloughed off and putting it on you. Yeah. And taking that heat, let him go. Right. That's a good way of saying it. That's what teamwork is. And taking that heat, let him go. Right.

That's a good way of saying it. That's what teamwork is. Teamwork is not about, you know, making everyone better. It is about that, of course, but it is also about, you know, taking the weak link and taking the fucking heat. Yeah. But that's what I loved about track, is track was an individual sport. Yes.

But now you look at, well, take something for like the American government and, you know, the old joke, you know, the buck stops here. Well, everyone's pointing the fucking finger. If you're the head of a company and that company goes under, it's no one's fault but yours and it should be yours. But everyone's like, well, you know, this guy or Congress, blah, blah, blah. Dude, you're the president or you're the CEO or whatever. Take the fucking heat. That's why you're the man.

That's why you've got the risk and you've got the reward. Steve Kerr. You guys remember Steve Kerr? Yeah. Three-point shooter. Great guy. Arizona. Well, he made a great comment one time.

Some of the guys on his team were getting some unfair pressure, you know, media bullshit and rumors, you know, gossip queens are. Fuck, man. And they said, you guys make the big money not because you shoot well or dribble well, it's because you have to handle that shit. Right.

But anyway, that's a whole other thing with teamwork. You see it all the time when you work for it. I'm sure, you know, you guys,

if you ever work with a company or whatever or work in a grocery store, everyone's looking out for themselves. Yeah. You can't really blame them because some people don't feel connected. But it's not about turning your buddy in.

It's about taking care of shit in-house so that everything's taken care of. Jim, did you get appreciation for the singular sports? Like, power is a singular sport. Did you get appreciation for that because you went from college football and got involved in strength and conditioning

and eventually became an excellent powerlifter? How did powerlifting change your approach to training and everything? You know what was funny is it didn't really change much. Playing college football was very difficult for me because football was such a big thing for me and uh i love lifting i loved all that and i i still love it but there was something about going out there and legally just hitting people right and i i talked to my oldest son when i uh last spoke to him we're talking about football and stuff and i he just he's like dad what's what's

going on my eyes just light i'm like'm like, dude, you don't understand. You can just fucking lay into some dude, hold his neck down, just fucking kill him. That's sick. And I'm like, dude, it doesn't hurt because you got all these pads on. It doesn't matter. It'll hurt 10 years down the road.

Not now. Yeah, 20. It'll shape him. But there's something about it. But I'll never forget, I was training one time, and someone yelled at me, you know, are you nervous or talking shit? And I'd step back and said, dude, I've played in front of more people than you have ever lifted in front of your life in one game.

So don't talk to me about fucking pressure. We used to step out in front of, you get handed a ball in front of 40,000 people. It's a fucking intense thing. Yeah, for sure. And I don't want to discredit that, but you step out in front of, you get handed a ball in front of 40,000 people, it's a fucking intense thing. Yeah, for sure. And I don't want to discredit that, but you have to understand like when you, you know,

put yourself in situations that are very nervous, then when you start doing some of this other stuff, it's not that big of a deal. It's people's main fucking problem, Jim, is they just take lifting way too fucking seriously.

Oh, man. No, because I think people need to have passion in something. Yeah. You know, whatever it is um and i don't think you can take anything you know if you love it you should love it you know i

think the problem is i think i don't think people take a lot anything too seriously everything is just like whatever and i i you know some people like look down and other people like oh you know he's like that guy in Mark Bell, Chris Bell's movie. Yeah. The guy lived in his van. Yeah, the guy in the van.

People laughed at him. Not giving up on the dream. Yeah, and it's like, you know, why do you give a shit? Right, right,

right. He's happy. Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. Like, why do you, why do you project your shit on this guy?

At the end of the day, we're all on the fucking ground and none of it matters anyway. So this guy did what he wanted to do and fucking free his strings. I just wish more people would have love and passion for, I don't care what it is.

I don't care if some guy's 400 pounds and is the best, you know, Call of Duty programmer in the world. Dude, that's what he loves.

Yeah, that's what you and I have talked about a lot though is passion is what makes a difference. And people get so concerned with this other stuff of like, you know, what can I do to drop body fat or what can I do to this? And it's like, man, is passion is what makes a difference. And people get so concerned with this other stuff of like, you know, what can I do to drop body fat?

Or what can I do to this? And it's like, man, follow a passion. Find something you're really fucking into and be passionate about. And that's what people are attracted to. Yeah. My wife didn't marry me for my looks. Trust me. My wife is beyond fucking hot.

With that, let's take a break real quick. When we come back back we'll find out why you hate even numbers this is tim ferris and you were listening to barbell shrugged for the video version go to barbell shrugged.com barbell shrugged is brought to you by you to learn more about how you can support the show go to barbell shrugug.com and sign up for the newsletter. I could talk music all day, man. And we're back. And what you did miss during

the break is I learned a lot about metal. I'm personally not a big metal fan, but these guys just informed me. What I did learn is you have to go see Neurosis.

Neurosis? Go see Neurosis. Neurosis? Neurosis, yes. Go see Neurosis. Go see Portal from Australia. And go see Ghost. I'll put those bands in the show notes. We're going to put them

in the show notes. Jim's going to write a playlist that just plays along with the podcast. If you don't like these bands, fuck you. Piss off. You ever hear the song

Hair of the Dog by Nazareth? Yeah, of course. That's the song that if you don't like it, then I don't like you. Yeah. Piss off. You ever hear the song Hair of the Dog by Nazareth? Yeah, of course. That's the song that like, if you don't like it, then I don't like you. Because everyone can get behind, you know, Hair of the Dog.

There's movies like that for me. We're just going to agree that this movie's great. If you don't like that, you're a heartless bastard. If you don't like Usual Suspects, fuck you.

You don't like A Life of Quater, maybe you can eat a dick. Bill Murray's fucking great. I want him to be my dad. Anybody ever talk shit about Bill Murray, I'm going to punch him right in the fucking face. Make sense. You ever hear this great Bill Murray story?

Which one? Ready for this? Yeah. Did you have a fucking Bill Murray story? No, I'm not personally. I'm about to say it. I'm a jealous as fuck. Although he grew up in Chicago and a friend of mine went to school.

My friend of mine's dad went to school with him and said the teacher used to give him 10 minutes in one of the classes to do his gig and get it all out. Oh, wow. And then just, if he promised to be quiet. I don't think that worked very well. But anyway, a good Bill Murray story is he walked up behind people and covered their eyes

and said, guess who? And they turn around like, what the fuck? He's like, it's Bill Murray, but no one will ever believe you. Urban legend. I heard the same story. He does it, man. In a restaurant in Brooklyn or wherever he's kind of living at this point, like New York, he'll walk up and just steal fries off of somebody's plate and look at them him dead and he's like no one will ever believe this is true i've heard that

one i've heard he's gone to like hipster parties and shit like that like in brooklyn and just like start washing dishes and hanging out and like giving advice and then just like he was in a bar and uh he served drinks but he only served one drink so no matter what you ask for you're like there you go. Did you see the RZA video with him and Bill Murray? RZA from the fucking Wu-Tang Clan? Yo, bro, is that motherfucking Bill Murray? That's motherfucking Bill Murray.

Like, right in the table. We could watch fucking Bill Murray all day. I don't know who RZA was. RZA's in Wu-Tang Clan. Wu-Tang Clan is a rap group from the 90s. They wrote a song called Cream. Cash rules everything around me. Dollar bill y'all.

Ghostface Killa. It's an artistic Hemingway style. Not familiar. Red Man. I was busy doing stuff with my wiener. Jim, what got you into powerlifting? It was chicks. Yeah, it was definitely for the money.

Money and the chicks. That's number one. I started getting fat and I was like, go with it. You know what? The main reason was I needed a competitive outlet after football. And that just seemed like the thing to do. I wanted, you know, it's always a really, people always, you know, I was a good squatter, but I would always say I was a dedicated squatter because that was what was, you know, Barry Sanders squatted. So I squatted, you know, and that was always drilled squatter, but I would always say I was a dedicated squatter because that was what Barry Sanders squatted, so I squatted. And that was always drilled into me right when I started. You have to squat. So unfortunately, my upper body, I didn't do anything.

I did push presses and jerks and stuff, but I didn't do much bench pressing. Bench helps rich women off the floor. Yes. But that's what got me started. I needed a competitive outlet. I needed something to do, and I needed something to channel my competitive energy and aggression or whatever else you want to call it. And I thought,

you know, what better way to do it? And fortunately, and I got my first, first, sorry, first issue of powerlifting USA. And I think I turned back to the top 100,

I think, I think it was the two twenties or something or whatever. And I'm looking at the numbers. I'm like, holy shit. Like, I am fucking weak. I had no idea there was anything called equipment. You didn't know there was gear. No, I had no idea.

This is the best. This guy squats 800 pounds. Yeah, I'm like, Jesus, I am so, you know, because I thought I was fairly strong, but I was like, God, I'm so out of my league. You've got like a mid-five squat, and you're looking at dudes like mid-eight. I did 6'18

or 6'22 or something. As a college fullback, it's pretty sufficient. I did that for two reps and I thought I was pretty good. We didn't really deadlift at all. No, same. My bench was 3.85 or something like that, 3.75. Those are fucking fantastic football numbers.

Yeah, and I did a vertical jump of 39 inches and I did some my clean wasn't very good and I did three I did a power clean of 330. I got you on one. And I did

a hang clean like 300 for five, stuff like that. Jeez, that's a good bet. And these were football technique too. Hang clean, like 300 for five, stuff like that. Jeez, that's a good bet. Well, there's a football technique, too. No matter, you got it to your chest. Who gives a shit? We're just arguing details at that point. The funny thing is, the worse form you have, the stronger you are. Yeah, right.

I saw it. If you can fucking get 300 to your chest, five, what does it matter? Yeah, some asshole you see from, like, middle of nowhere university, just, like, 400 clean, you're just like. It's just disgusting. You're like, Jesus Christ, that guy's crazy. You saw what strength was. We had a guy at University of Kentucky when I was there who,

he was a first-round draft pick, defensive tackle, Dwayne Robertson, and he was testing on the clean. And he picked up, there was 374 on the bar because we had the kilos, three blues and a yellow, I believe. Right? Is that? Yeah. I'm not a mathematician. 374 on the bar because we had the kilos three blues and a yellow I believe right? is it? yeah I'm not a mathematician he takes

he's got football gloves on no hook grip like fucking gross slimy ass football gloves yeah so he gets up to the bar and he picks it up

like with just his forearms and throws it down he's like just need to feel the weight first coach and then and I was like fuck me

he gets up and he just fucking straight leg deadlifts and just pulls it up and he's like, fuck me. He gets up and he just fucking straight leg deadlifts and just pulls it up and he's like, is that all I gotta do? Just throws it down. I was like,

Jesus Christ. I guess that works, bud. You're sweet. And I started thinking, you know, everyone talks about technique,

technique on the Olympic lifts and like, that guy's just fucking strong. Right. Like, there's no way to clean 400 unless you're strong. Like,

you can't fucking fake it. You can't do anything else. There's no bullshit technique to use to say, like, well, he did this. Fuck that. You get 400 to your chest or 375, you're fucking strong. We had a guy on the football team who was a, you guys remember Christian Akoye from the Chiefs?

Fuck yes. He was his cousin, and he cleaned a shit you're not cleaning, jerked for two reps 411. You have any idea how strong that is? What, 20? At 20 years old? Yeah, it's 21. And not training for an Olympic lifting.

There's a guy who said, I'm going to put this over my head. We're going to give this a go. Yeah. It was the most amazing thing. And it's funny because I was like, oh, you know what? Clean this. And I'm like, eh. Yeah, I get confused.

And he didn't drop down. People are confused. Picked it up and boom. They'll say, American Way of this, that. All our athletes, you should go into any fucking Division I college football. Go to the University of Alabama

and see the fucking freaks in nature there. If you got any of those guys for a year, they'd set a record. But powerlifting can feel the same way. If you go in and see guys that are going to be first or second round draft picks like defensive linemen, those dudes are squatting seven.

Fucking John Wellborn. I mean, if he wanted the power, he'd fucking do anything he wanted with it. He'd fucking monster man. See, the interesting thing about when you, for example, an offensive tackle, you know, people always criticize, like, the 225 numbers. Like, oh, I can do more. But you can't shuffle backwards and keep a very angry 300-pound man away from the quarterback for 70 plays a game.

And bench press to 25 to 30. People know how intense that is. But that's the reason that you don't see guys like Hapthor, the guy doing strongman, 6'10", 400 pounds, he's got abs. The Mountain. Everyone says, like, why don't somebody pick him up to play football? It's because that motherfucker's never played football before. He's a hell of an athlete. It's a whole other skill set.

That would take a decade to develop. Or two. Yeah. That skill to be an NFL-level guy? Oh, an NFL-level, yeah. Some dude six inches shorter who's played football his entire life will just embarrass people. But they're motherfuckers like Tony Allen, the famous Cowboys guy.

He got benched apparently like six or seven. They're freaks. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're freaks on there. And you're strong, yeah, but they're fucking guys who, this is what they do, man. They fucking train wreck people for a living.

Right. They pay millions of dollars a year. How did you come across 531? What gave you that idea? How did you develop it? What got you to write it? The best way to put it is, after I squatted 1,000,

I just wanted to be, I wasatted 1,000, I just wanted to be – I was embarrassed. That's what I wanted to do from the time I was a little kid. How long did it take you to get to 1,000? You got out of football. You saw the numbers in the powerlifting magazine. You go, hey, I need to get stronger. I'm weak.

What was your steps to getting to that 1,000-pound squat? I'm trying to think when I squatted 1,000. I don't even know what year it was. It was at the Zanesville. It was Zanesville meet. You just had your kid. I remember you sitting in there. Mason was.

You squatted. You sat down with Mason. He was like born a fucking week or whatever. I think he's in the background of the video. I'm in the background looking very fat. God, I'm embarrassed. Well, both of you were. Let's just be fair.

I was way fatter than Jim, man. Fucking twice as fat. Four years? Four years? Yeah. Maybe four years. twice as fat. Four years. Four years? Yeah. Maybe four years. So it took you four years. After you'd been playing college football, you had a 600-plus squat,

and then it took you another four years to get to 1,000. Yeah. Learn the gear and get strong. Yeah, learn the gear and stuff like that. I mean, before I even put any gear on, before I even started all the box squats, I squatted 725 with knee wraps. Fuck, man.

Walked out. Wow. So, you know, I had a good piece of strength. You know, and then, but, you know, after I did all that, and that's what I wanted to do, because I saw Fred Halffield. I used to get all the, you know, some of the books, and I saw Fred Halffield squat 1,003 or whatever it was. Holy shit. And so I always thought, you know, hell, I mean, and I always wanted to do that.

So I set a goal, and I said, as soon as I get and uh I always want to do that so I set a goal and I said as soon as I get this I'm going to try something different I didn't want to I don't like how do I put this I don't live in the past at all I hate that that just drives me nuts so when I accomplished the goal I'm like well time for something else right so I wanted to lose some weight I wanted to you know kind of feel better know, feel healthier or whatever you want to say. And then it got to the point where I'm like, you know what, I don't even want to think anymore. Because I just had Mason, my oldest, and, you know, he was working and all this stuff. And I was like, you know, I just want to go in and just do and just train how I used to train.

That's 5-3-1 is pretty much how I used to train. I used to just work up to a heavy set and try. And I would just total focus for days on that one set. I'd be like, I just want to break a PR. And I love training like that. So after about, it took me about two years, believe it or not, it looks very simple, right? The simplest things are the most elegant things.

Yeah, you know, it's called the Beavis and Butthead effect. You know, I could have done that, well, you didn't do it. You could have broke that. You could have broke that. Yeah, and so that's, and I started having really good success with it. And so I started, some of my friends were like asking some questions and I was like, just try this.

And, you know, it was screwed up a lot. And we eventually came, you know, we started coming up with the basic principles. At least I did. I found out that you got to work, you know, about 90% to even 85% of your max, even, even lower for some higher-end guys. And that just went off. I saw so many of my friends. You do a training max.

You back off intentionally to sort of pull back with some focus. Yeah, so you can have some success. You can focus on bar speed. You can focus on some PRs and stuff like this. You're always going to have success, and that just builds and builds and builds. Yeah, but you're not getting buried in training. No, you don't. You know, I always tell people you should leave a workout hard,

feeling like you worked out, but you shouldn't be drained. You know, you see these people like – You've got to pay back the drainage. You've got to fucking put the work back in. John Meadows once said, you know, training is digging a hole, and recovery is filling that hole back up. Right. Most people just keep on digging and digging, and they're like,

oh, why am I hurt? Why am I not making gains? Well, you're doing too much. You know, life is an accumulation of stress and it's not just what you do in the weight room. It's everything else in your life and all that affects your recovery. So if you have a high stress job,

you got a couple of kids at home and your wife's nagging the shit out of you, whatever the fuck. Tell me about it, brother. True that. He's not going to listen to this shit, I don't think. I can't do it. I was like, you've got to shut your mouth right now.

You're about to be in big trouble, Chris. Jay will be like, he's just fucking telling dick jokes again. Fuck it, I'm not listening to this shit. She'll never catch the reference. We zoned her out in the first half. Yeah, our wives don't watch this. Thanks to Christ. So it's just, you know,

then people end up thinking that they can do the same shit they did when they were 18 or 16 and they think they can still make gains it doesn't work like that when you get

a little bit older so that's pretty much how it started and I didn't really think much of it

you know and then I started getting stronger and stronger and I couldn't believe it and actually

you're just trying to be in shape yeah I just wanted to lift and have fun again and just not

worry about anything enjoy training the power of the paddle will drive you in the ground but you forget why you love lifting weights because you chase numbers Trying to be in shape. Yeah, I just wanted to lift and have fun again. Yeah. And just not worry about anything. Yeah, enjoy training. Look, the power of the paddle will drive you in the ground. But you forget why you love lifting weights. Yeah. Because you chase numbers so much. Yeah, right.

And so I just wanted to have fun again and do whatever. And I started really light. Like, really light. Like, I'd go in the weight room with the flu and do all my workouts. And then after, like, three or four months, I ended up pulling, like, 615 or 610 or something like that for a double or triple. And I was like, dude, I haven't even trained over 450. What the fuck is going on here? You know, and I hadn't been taking anything.

The accumulation of work, man, it just adds up. Something happened here. What is this? Yeah, and I was so confused. I remember when I pulled it, a friend of mine was there, John, and he miscounted the weight on the bar. He's like, dude, that's only 500 pounds. He thought it was five plates and some change, but it was six plates and some change.

He's like, dude, that was horrible. I'm like, dude, that's 6'10". He's like, holy shit, what happened? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, and so he was one of my first. I wish that would happen to me one day. I wish that would happen to me. I've never been like, all right, I accidentally put a plate on.

One of these guys, you should just fucking do 531. It's very, you know, doing stupid fucking weightlifting shit, breaking yourself. It's a new program. Not a lot of people have heard about 531. It works great.

You can add in friends. You can fucking put bands to it. You can change everything, Jim. You can make it whatever you want. That is my problem, is I'm a weightlifter, and I'm not going to bastardize your program yeah no it's fine it's the the whole point is like it just it set up the the program

originally and we've morphed it uh to a lot of different stuff over the years is essentially someone who is very highly competitive with themselves and doesn't want to bullshit around and it's really good for you know the average everyday joe 53 51 around. And it's really good for the average, everyday Joe. 531 for Powell was really fucking excellent. Yeah, wait until you see this new shit I got coming out. You can tease us a little bit. Yeah, I wrote a program. It's a 30-week program.

And it institutes. No one's going to be able to stick with that. I don't give a shit. They're going to make it past week two, and they'll be like, I'm not getting any results. I'm in double, but I'm out. It periodizes everything from your conditioning to your assistance work to your actual training. Fucking right. Everything.

It's just perfect. And it took me a long time because I had a lot of fuck-ups. People are like, oh, you just made this up. I'm like, dude, this is two years. It's not like you sat down for a week and read it all out. It's your whole life. It's your whole life, really. It's not about writing the program.

It's about writing the program, doing it, seeing the results, doing it again, changing things. I had a lot of screw-ups come with this one. And fortunately, I had a lot of, well, fortunately for me, it was other people's screw-ups, too, that I work with. And I'm always like, okay, that doesn't work very well. Or we see a guy burn out. We're like, okay, we have to tailor this back another three weeks. Yeah, he can do this, but he can't do the conditioning or that doesn't work very well. Or, you know, we see a guy burn out and like, okay, we got to tailor this, this back another three weeks. He can do this, but he can't do the condition.

He can't do the accessories. We can't only, we can only do this. That's your problem. Mike, a couple of weeks of good progress than burning out is not so good. Yeah. Right.

Michael. Patience. I don't burn out. Oh, you break yourself. Well, I break, I break around month five every,

every, every year, every time, every year around the Arnold. They, uh, they announce the totals for nationals. And I go, oh, I can hit that. And then I start training. I hit the numbers I need to hit in competition. And then I get hurt right before nationals.

Just power clean every time. Just power clean and push jokes. So I train hard five out of 12 months of the year. It's working pretty good. The last three or four years it's worked out. Seven months. You might be surprised at what you can do with submaximal work. Oh, yeah.

I think the current trend, I always laugh because if you're around this world long enough, you're long enough to see the diet trends. Yeah, right. It's heroin. It's like it's heroin so god you guys still fucking I remember this when it was this

yeah and you know the new at least from my point of view the new thing is everyone wants to squat all the time

yeah like Olympic lifters do and stuff like that sure yeah and that's great if you can handle it but not everyone can handle it

not everyone has again they have all their shit going on in their lives and it doesn't work like that you know yeah if you can get away with it that's fine but everyone can handle it. Not everyone has, again, they have all their shit going on in their lives and it doesn't work like that. You know?

Yeah. If you can get away with it, that's fine. But if you're a guy who's like, I've been cross-painting for two years, I'm kind of interested in doing a pound of meat,

what do you think of like Shaco or what the fuck if kids will try, break themselves and have to learn these lessons the fucking hard way, man?

Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna, like for example, if you're squatting twice a week and you're trying to go seven days a week, the common sense thing is to go three days a week for a couple months and then four days a week for three or four months. You know what I'm saying?

They're just like, ah, fuck it. I'm just jumping in. Push all my chips in. Now I got a rap, though. Rap, though. I got one, two. I will say this, though. It's easier from

as a coach to go oh you should dial it back but when you're when you're handling yourself it's like it's so easy to like tell someone oh you should you should definitely

go sub maximum or something like that and when you're training yourself you're like that's why that's why I recommend people having a I call them like

you know like lifting axioms or whatever you want to call it like I have a list of things that always keep me on track so whenever i get pulled into another direction i'm like oh you know what i'm like fuck it i just look at the list i'm like all right let's get myself back on track you know what does that look like what are you talking about uh well for example like uh if i like my shoulders have taken a beating from the motorcycle accident and from football and stuff like that. So every time my shoulder feels good, I'm like,

ah, you know, let's fucking start doing other shit. I'm like, wait a minute. I know that one. So I have a list of things I, you know,

I have to do. Um, and then like with assistance work and stuff, I always use a right now, like my, because I'm coming back from a really big surgery. Uh, my assistance work is always done with a weighted vest. So, weighted vest to get extra strength in my back and my stomach.

And so if I can't do a movement or an exercise that doesn't compromise my back or I can't do with a weighted vest, I just don't do it. So right now my big assistant stuff is very slow step-ups and tons of chins and tons of pushups. And that's the only assistant stuff I do. And it sounds ridiculous, but I need to strengthen my ass, you know, for my back and the extra work, you know,

it's cause I spent 30, 40 minutes a day with a weight vest on, you know, it's going to do nothing but positive stuff for my torso. Yeah. Right. So for my situation, that's what I need.

So everyone needs to write down some basic things when they're level headed. Like don't go to the grocery store when you're starving. torso. Yeah, right. So for my situation, that's what I need. So everyone needs to write down some basic things when they're level-headed. Like, don't go to the grocery store when you're starving. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And don't write down these training things unless you have a clear mind and understand, you know, what you're doing or why you're doing it or something like that. And then refer to it.

You just post it up and just tack it up. And it's going to change throughout your life. You know, right now it's snowing out right now obviously in in ohio and we can't really push the prowler so all my conditioning is done on the airdyne which is great because it's less stress on my back right now yeah but conditioning conditioning hard work short amount of time push it yeah but with conditioning even and i think one of the big things is people fuck that up because they train smart in the weight room. And they go out and do crazy conditioning shit and don't understand that. Punish themselves.

That affects your training, asshole. Right. And you might be surprised. Like I did on my 34th birthday, I did 34 prowler pushes of 40 yards with a low handle. Two weeks. Ruined. Oh, man. It was tough.

But all my training up to that was maybe 10 prowler pushes a day, you know, for three days a week. So you don't need to kill yourself on conditioning to be in great condition. Right. You just need to chop at the block a little bit because, you know, again, you're digging that hole. You've got to fill that back up and everything, you know, has a price to pay.

So that's, you know, people, and I love hard conditioning stuff because I do think that it's very important because you can still, you can test yourself a little bit, but it comes with a price. So for the most part, it doesn't take a lot to be in great shape. It takes no talent to be in great shape, right?

Like it doesn't take you to, you know, all you have to do is work, right? Yeah, of course. Now, not everyone's going to pull 800 or squat 900 or whatever, bench 400 or 500. Yeah, but I can push a parallel

or I can throw a weight based on and climb some stairs. Yeah, but you can work hard, you know, and work smart. You don't have to drown yourself. I see these people

doing these crazy conditioning shit and they're like falling on the ground. That's a sign. Why is my deadlift sucker? Why am I cleaning it? And I understand like you still need to tap

into the primal, but you've got to be fucking smart. Like, it's just stupid training. Your bag of meat has fine, fine limits. You can't do all this shit. It doesn't impress anyone other than people who don't train. Like, I mean, if you're out there to impress, you know, your mom or something, that's fine.

But if you want to get better, it's stupid. Yeah. You know, people always ask, you know, my opinion on this and that. It's like, dude, I don't have an opinion because I don't give it any time. It's just not worth it. And I think you guys can understand that a little bit. It's like asking, like I'm a huge music fan, right? Like, what do you think of this?

It's like some garage band at 13. Like, I'm glad they're doing it, but it's not very good. Right. I'm happy they're doing it, but this is weight. Keep going. Keep going. Just keep on progressing

a little bit. Yeah, but you don't get to just say, day one, I'm going to be the fucking next big thing. Like, there's a fucking

10 or 20 year progress that got you where you are. Like, that's back to that thing of like, what do I need to do to get strong? Like,

fucking squat consistently heavy once a week for the next decade. That's back to that thing of, what do I need to do to get strong? Fucking squat consistently heavy once a week for the next decade. That'll cure more problems than anything else. You're doing it because it's important and you love it, not because you're chasing after something or trying to prove something to somebody.

It does sound like that's what's happening. What's happening with you is it's very intrinsically motivated. Most people, it's the extrinsic motivation that gets them into trouble. Yes. They're they, they, they're worried about what someone else is going to think about them. And that's when trouble sets in and bad decisions are made. There's, there's the, uh, the outside influence.

And there's also that, that, uh, they don't understand that it's, it's a bigger picture, bigger life, uh, or even a bigger training picture. The training day is only one part of a training decade. Right. So just chip away. Ten-year goals, ten-year, you know. And I wish more people would see that. The fucking power of a habit, man. The habit of just approaching the bar more every time, you know.

But if you would have told me that, I thought that at a young age, but I didn't really believe it. And it got me you know you stall out quick and you get frustrated and stuff i just would have just plugged away slowly shit who knows what would happen yeah just make five pound gains consistently man and not get hurt yeah that's that's a big thing i see people do is they they make this big rush and they're like oh i'm gonna make this game i'm gonna make this game and i'm gonna push i'm gonna do this i'll pinch 500 next year the next thing you you know, like, oh, man, you got fucking really hurt.

And then you took six months off. That's a way worse setback than if you had just been consistent and made five pounds every cycle forever without getting fucking hurt. The best thing you can do as a lifter trying to make progress is not get hurt. And especially if you're an athlete that competes in something that isn't necessarily dependent on your total and you get hurt in the weight room, you're an athlete that competes in something that isn't necessary, dependent on your total, and you get hurt in the weight room, you're an asshole. Yeah, you're playing a field sport or something like that.

You're not in a strength sport. Man, don't be the fucking strongest guy in there that sucks on the football field or sucks throwing stuff. Be good competing, and then make sure that that's transferring into whatever your sport is. That's what some of Kelly says. Don't forget you're training to foster athleticism. That's what's important. You can't get the tail is wagging the dog and shit.

You're so focused on the barbell. Your goal is to perform. At the same time, though, dude, you've got to get a little stronger. Well, sure. I'm not saying don't get stronger, but I'm saying don't be stupid and then all of a sudden you blew a shoulder out in the weight room and you can't now compete for six months. I that you know there's a very select few people that probably really has that happen to um i see the most part people taking it probably way too easy and that

doesn't mean that they're not training hard i don't think they're just not trained with their brain and what's funny too is i don't understand this and maybe that's just because of me it's when i something comes up in training that sucks like I like it like fuck yeah dude I gotta figure this shit out rather than me I'm just gonna fucking quit I love that I love the challenge like listen my shoulder press sucks

what can I do and then you start looking at it from different angles and that's where all the magic is discovered yeah what's the point of that I like the challenge and maybe that's what's the point of that i just don't i like the challenge and maybe maybe that's what's why i'm doing what i'm doing and uh you know you learn to think a little bit you know but i don't understand i understand being frustrated but not being like discouraged right like frustrated for motivation but uh not frustrated the point

of like just giving everything up or right this. That goes back to the intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. It's got to be involved with you and what your goals are and fuck anything else. But everyone trains a guest technically for whatever reason they want, whether it be external motivation or they want to look a certain way. But it's been my experience that performance goals are something you can be so proud of. If you're always chasing a look,

you're never going to get there. That's tough. I mean, people that usually have like, you know, they want to look a certain way. If they get there, they're not going to be happy with it. And what's very funny is think about this every picture you see of someone

is fake it's fucking fake it's like when women see models it blows my mind that people get upset about that shit they're representing this who doesn't know that it's not real

how dumb can you be you don't understand this is airbrushed and this is shaped differently it's like it's really right right no it's ridiculous yeah you know what if you fall for that you deserve it because there's no way in this day and time it's like when people don't understand what eating healthy is if you're 20 years old and you don't know a big mac probably probably not the best thing for you. I don't know what to tell you. Your parents fucking blew it. They dropped them all. We've laughed about that, talking and stuff like that.

Diet-wise, how about just try to be less of a piece of shit than you were yesterday? Just ask yourself, these food choices make me a piece of shit. If you're looking at a plate in front of you that's like two Whoppers and a fucking large fry, that's a yes. That makes me a piece of shit. If you're looking at a plate in front of you that's like two Whoppers and a fucking large fry, that's a yes. That makes me a piece of shit.

Unless you've had good food over the last fucking ten weeks, man. Let loose. The funny thing is I don't have to diet and Matt gets all mad at me. Well, because you're cute. You're naturally cute. I still have that

huge background in sports yeah yeah so all I did was run and run and run you have that huge training volume behind you

I have to tell my wife the same thing yeah and it's funny because my wife my wife my wife is always fucking lean like fucking six pack

she had a kid and a great story is she was out pushing a prowler and my son was in a carriage and he was like I don't know

four months old or two months old or something like that. Don't tape to the prowler. Some lady came by. She's like, oh, my God. Is that your son? He's like, yeah. How old is he? He's two months old.

She's like, you look great. My wife's like, dude, it's been like three months. There's no excuse. And then she realized, like, shit, I have this huge training background. So you can get away with a little bit more. three months. There's no excuse. Then she realized like shit, I have this huge training background so you can get away with a little bit more. But you got to fucking pay the price. Yeah, you couldn't have just been a piece of shit

and spit a kid out and then said we're not going to run for all our fucking five times a week. That's a good point though. People look at someone and go, oh, they may have gotten out. They look like they got out of shape and all of a sudden they're back in shape three months later. It's like, well, you have to consider they had a decade of being. That counts for something, man.

And training really hard, your body is going to bounce back to that form really fast. Your body will return to whatever you consider normalcy. Yeah. And with training stuff, you know, you talk about 10 weeks, you can talk about 10 years talk about 20 years but it's like

when people come in like normal people who aren't involved in the industry or something and they're 35 40 years old and they want results

in six weeks it's like dude you got yourself out of shape for 30 years so let's get let's take this this idea of like

the total balance of time what did you spend doing yeah and so let's you know let's now always tell you know it's like well now let's get right let's take this this idea like the total balance of time what did you spend doing yeah and so let's you know let's now I always tell you know it's like well now let's add that

just get another 30 years and then they get all discouraged but it doesn't take 30 years it may take 5 right but imagine if they would have started earlier yep

you know so yeah that's the same advice I give to friends of mine right now who just blew off like the decade of 20 to 30, and now they're just gross and shitty. What I recommend I do is you don't get to eat anything

that didn't have a face for the next forever. Until you're thin, until you can't lose any more weight. The funny thing is I just don't have any patience anymore for this. Because it's nothing. Now, there's some people, obviously, with eating disorders that I'm not talking about just overeat for a psychological issue.

It's called American. But a lot of people, they just don't have the simple discipline not to do some stuff or to do other things, whatever you want to say. Tell yourself no ever. I just don't have the patience for that anymore because I can't care

if you don't care right right so you know what it's like what darren taught me you know you come in here for a year and a half and you show me that you work every day then maybe we'll talk you know so uh it might be a hard like people john welborn and i were talking to he's like and you're you know people say you're kind of mean when answering questions. I'm not fucking mean. I'm honest and I'm direct. And Welborn's like, I'm like, John, you know what I'm talking about because, man, coaches are brutal.

I mean, brutal. You guys think answering a guy with a simple sentence is mean? I mean, John Welborn told a story where a guy, they're watching tape of a scrimmage. A guy missed a block or missed an assignment or whatever, and the coach pointed it out, and the guy came back with the excuse, and the coach said, get the fuck out of here. Take your book and go upstairs.

You're off the fucking team. You want to talk about hard shit? Yeah, right. There goes everything you've worked for because you just couldn't, you know, you didn't have the discipline to shut up. Yeah, we're talking about like big salary. That was your job. Yeah, yeah.

Not bullshit like a scholarship or any of that stuff. We're talking about a real fucking job like in a fell shit yeah so you know i grew up my dad was a coach uh i grew up you know with coaches and that's just how it was you know you got told really quickly i mean babers was brutal he called him uh if you fucked up a drill twice you're a coach killer and you're out you didn't get to do the drill anymore you're out So you learn real quick to do things right and do them the way they're intended. Step up where you don't. Yeah. Yeah.

And. It works like that too. Like, you know. Well, that's called life. Yeah. Shit. Dude, you screw up. Yeah, stop fucking around, man.

It's going to matter. Yeah. So, but that's. That's what that is. I don't know. All right. I'm losing my buzz. We're going to.

Oh, that's one that we definitely have to wrap this up, man. We got to go get more booze. Yeah. As long as I don't know alright I'm losing my buzz we're gonna oh that's one we definitely have to wrap this up we gotta go get more booze yeah let's do it alright guys thanks for joining us yeah

thank you for having me I appreciate it it was fantastic thank you Matt you got anything you want to promote plug madvinson.net

thehate.net hviii.com and madvinson.net I'll link it to it so people just push a button at the bottom of the show

Jim what do you want people to do I want people to work hard and I want people to give a shit about something that matters to them yeah I just

you know I'm not a big I'm the worst marketer in the world my last book I put a Facebook post out so we will post some stuff

great Jim we'll sell some books for you jimwindler.com is a great site he's got a great I'll help him out he's got a great forum there's a great group

of people on it and those people actually sit there and work each other there's no troll bullshit and it's a great forum to be a part of and uh

you want honest feedback you want help go there's well there's a new book we'll have out and shortly it's 99% finished

I have to tweak a few things. It'll be – And pictures. Yeah. I have a picture of Jimmy Bauer from I Hate God. I suppose. But the book is tentatively titled The Lifer, and it's a nod to the band Down

and to understanding how to train in the bigger picture. So it's a 30-week program, and then I'll tell you how to, once you see the program, go through the program, how to tweak things your own way and understand the bigger picture of stuff. After that, the NOV book is coming, and what that is is a book to my two sons about life. Oh, man, got to fucking get that one. Right on.

And it is, I will not, I will leave out the public section on religion and politics because I don't discuss that. I don't discuss any of that shit. I try not to publicly. Just a wreck.

But it's simple life lessons I've learned through training, through life, and things, you know, just so everyone knows, I was in a motorcycle accident.

It was horrible. About, shit. it actually happened on 530 almost 531 what two or three years ago it was 2011

no shit four years ago yeah and it fucking I thought I was gonna die I almost died you should've

and I I wanna leave my son something to remember you you know, and not just me fucking talking about lifting weights because there's more to life than that. But anyway, that's something kind of cool. I think it'll sell probably 30 copies because it's not train related.

We'll hopefully have more than that. But it's something I really feel strongly about and something I think a lot of people can learn from. Better than that, you still ride? Still what? You still ride?

Yeah. You know, it's funny, as soon as I got the bike back, my wife's like, get back on the fucking bike. Yeah.

She's like, you will never have, I don't want to live with a man with fear. And I'm like, all right, just don't fucking wreck. Don't wreck it.

Jesus Christ, Jim. Don't do it again. My wife was six months pregnant at the time. Oh, wow. And you imagine getting that fucking phone call. No kidding.

It happened around 11 o'clock at night. Wow. My buddy Will called. He's like, dude, I got, you know, because they, you know, they ambulance me off

and I was in a, you know, they didn't know if I was going to make it or whatever and yeah it's a horrible phone call for a pregnant woman to get

no kidding so she had to hustle there and but whatever I'm fucking healthy you're here I feel good I feel as good as I have

in the past 15 years you can hang out in a hotel weight room and have a couple drinks fuck yes dude well you're buttoned all the way up

you look so classy. Yeah, well, it's like 13 degrees outside. Well, thanks for joining us. Hey, I really appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it's a pleasure,

man. It's a pleasure, brother. Mike, this guy holding the camera. It's a pleasure. Thanks, man. There's a bunch of dudes outside jerking off.

They're trying to come in here and they're going to get a fucking mean bicep pump right around midnight. It's their anabolic window. If they fucking miss it, they're done. Just add carbs. Make sure to go to barbellshrug.com,

sign up for the newsletter, go over to iTunes, give us a five-star review and positive comments only. Gym stars. Or Jim will come and knock down your door. All right. Thanks, guys. As long as you live in London, Ohio, he'll come right to your door. All right. Thanks, guys.

As long as you live in London, Ohio, he'll come right to your house. I'll hire someone. Shut your mouth.