Barbell Shrugged - 5/3/1 Strength Training System w/ Jim Wendler - The Barbell Life

Episode Date: August 11, 2019

Jim Wendler is the creator and author of the 5/3/1 Training Program. This program has been used by millions of athletes and lifters of all ages and abilities. Jim played football and graduated from the University of Arizona where he was a three-time letter winner. He went on to squat 1000 pounds in competition and is an accomplished Elite Lifter with a 2,375 pound total. He has coached high school athletes, collegiate athletes, trained general populations and spoken globally on the topics of strength training, conditioning, fat-loss, performance and program design. However, his greatest success is his ability to simplify the complexities of strength training into program variations so that anyone can apply them and achieve their goals.   Minute Breakdown:   0-10 – How Jim found the barbell and strength training 11-20 – Battling Grave Disease  21-30 – Training at Westside Barbell w/ Dave Tate 31-40 - Equipment vs. Raw powerlifting and reshaping the sport of powerlifting 41 -50 - Totaling elite in his first powerlifting meet 51 -60 - Creating the 5/3/1 strength training system   Jim Wendler on Instagram   Travis Mash on Instagram   Please Support Our Sponsors   Savage Barbell Apparel - Save 25% on your first order using the code “BARLIFE”   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   Join the One Ton Challenge    Registration is LIVE   12 Month Strength training program to increase your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, dead, bench.    Add them up to find your One Ton Total.    The goal is 2,000 pounds for men and 1,200 for women.    http://onetonchallenge.com/join   “What is the One Ton Challenge”   “How Strong is Strong Enough”   “How do I Start the One Ton Challenge” --------------------------------------------------- Show notes: https://shruggedcollective.com/tbl-wendler --------------------------------------------------- ► Travel thru Europe with us on the  Shrugged Voyage, more info here: https://www.theshruggedvoyage.com/ ► What is the Shrugged Collective?  Click below for more info: https://youtu.be/iUELlwmn57o ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

How has it been a week already since we tore it down at the CrossFit Games? Good Lord was the One Ton Challenge live. So much fun. Wes Kitts in the house, Morgan King, all the coolest kids in the world. Lee Cassiano, Katie Cork. God, everybody was so cool. We lifted so much weights. CT Fletcher, good Lord, I got to stand on stage at the CrossFit Games in the middle of the floor.

All the people. Tell people about the one-ton challenge. So radical. This week on the Barbell of Life, Jim Windler, 5-3-1. If you haven't done this program, it's unbelievably cool. It's like one of the most foundational programs that every strength athlete goes through. At some point in their life, you'll see 5-3-1 pop up. It's a phenomenal program.

Jim Windler has an awesome story. And this is just part one of two with Jim Windler, Coach Travis Mash, and the Barbell Life. I want to let everybody know that we are in the middle of a launch for the One Ton Challenge. It is a 12-month strength training program. We're going to walk you through eight-week cycles of the squat, the snatch, the clean, the bench, the deadlift, and the jerk. You're going to do all six of those on an eight-week cycle. And then it wraps up with a four-week peak cycle in which you're going to PR all six of your lifts. We just got the first group through the squat cycle.

And every single person, literally 100% of the people PR their back squat in eight weeks. Anywhere from 20 to 100 pounds. Yeah, we had a 100-pound back squat PR, which is insane in eight weeks. So get over to OneTonChallenge.com forward slash join. OneTonChallenge.com forward slash join one ton challenge.com forward slash join. You can get in on the party. The back squat cycle starts next Monday. Cart closes on Wednesday. If you don't get in on it now, you're going to have to wait eight to 10 weeks until the next launch. By then you'll have already missed out on potentially a hundred pound back squat PR.

So I suggest you get in there right now, OneTonChallenge.com forward slash join. Get signed up. Let's go. And I definitely want to thank our sponsors, Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. Save 20% on the green, the red, the gold, the juices. They got the proteins. They got some gut bacteria.

Organifi is just a phenomenal company. There's a reason that they're on so many shows on the Shrugged Collective. It's because all of our audience loves them. You should love them. You should save the 20%. go to organifi.com forward slash shrug and then of course savage barbell savage barbell so radical they are the official clothing sponsor of the one ton challenge everybody the judges the athletes got the swag bags the judges got the t-shirts i got a whole closet full of savage barbell gear on top of really quality clothing guess what every shirt says savage right on the

front who doesn't want that when you walk in the room everybody looks at you and they know you're a savage it says it right on your shirt get over to savagebarbell.com use the code barlife bIFE, B-A-R-L-I-F-E, and you're going to save 25% on your first order. Savagebarbell.com. Use the coupon code BARLIFE. You're going to save 25% on your first purchase. Let's get into the show. You're listening to The Barbell Life. On this episode, we talk with the man, the myth, the legend, none other than Jim Wendler. Now, Jim is probably most well-known for creating the 5-3-1 system, but he also has a long history as a powerlifter at Westside Barbell and is one of the original employees at Elite FTS. So we talk about all of that.

We talk about the origins of 5-3-1 and also lots of solid lessons about success. And we wanted to let you know about something amazing that we're doing here at Mash Elite. As this podcast comes out, we're in the process of creating a massive video resource on technique, mobility, programming, coaching, all sorts of stuff. And for the next few days,

you can pre-order this video seminar. Not only will the pre-order let you save a ton of money off the full price, but you can actually help us make this resource something that will be amazing and that will help you. You can learn more about it at mashelite.com slash video seminar. That's mashelite.com slash video seminar. And if you happen to be listening to this podcast months or years after it's released, you can head on over there to actually purchase the finished product. But right now, as this podcast comes out, head on over there to pre-order, save some money, and help us craft an amazing product for coaches and athletes to learn all about technique and everything else. Again, that's over at mashelite.com slash video seminar.

And now I'm Loren Penalas joined by Crystal McCullough and Travis Mash as we talk with Jim Wendler. Hey, welcome back to the show, guys. Today, we have a friend of mine, definitely consider him a mentor and someone that every last one of you dudes knows. Needs no introduction. Yeah, seriously. And like, if you don't know him, stop listening to my show. That's what I'm saying right now.

But today we have on my friend, Jim Wendler. Thanks for being on, brother. Thank you, Travis. I hope things are well. It's great now that you're on the show with me so yeah are you still living in uh north carolina still in north carolina are you still in ohio yeah can you hear the dinosaurs in the background is it snowing or something is it dreary like what is it like maybe 50 degrees out here today it's been an amazing winter oh wow that's that's crazy just wait till the arnold then the winner will show up seriously every year it's dreary yeah it's like clockwork like that's why uh that's my excuse why

i don't go to the arnold because i don't want to walk for 10 minutes in cold yeah seriously well man you know today i mean i mean i want everyone to uh catch up like it's you know you're kind of this um i don't know you're this uh he's like the the guru on the mountain seriously every now and then he'll come down and like enlighten the people and then he goes back up go back up into the the temple yeah so my pants show everyone what's going on i guess let's start by just where you know give them your background and then we'll, you know, talk about it. Well, after, you know, I say this all the time. I started training when I was about 13.

It was between the summer between my seventh and eighth grade year. My dad, I've been bugging my dad for years to lift, you know. Travis, I assume you're about as old as I am. So you probably grew up with like Arnold Schwarzenegger. course and uh i'm more of a lou frigno guy but frigno guy yeah okay yeah uh well as long as you're not not a franco colombo guy all the short dudes were franco colombo guys i like him too but i love lou he just called you short he knows i'm sure I'm playing for 10, so I'm not. But the – and it was always for the betterment of football and stuff like that. You know, obviously I wanted to be strong.

And it wasn't so much Arnold the bodybuilder. It was Arnold the action hero and stuff like that. So there was just kind of this obsession even when I was a little kid. And obviously I picked up magazines on sports training. That was the biggest thing, like football players and track athletes. And I read about them well, that's, I knew from a very young age that I was an okay athlete, but I was not a very, you know, I wasn't going to make the NFL on talent, let alone, you know, great college football. So I knew I needed like an edge. And this seemed to give a lot of people the edge. So I pretty much up until I was 23 trained exclusively for football and, you know, track a little bit through high school. I ended up playing college football, you know, exceeding all my standards, exceeding my

talent level just because of my training, if that makes sense. Like, I should never have played as much as I did just on talent alone. So I realized how important training was. And after that, I started, I knew after I got done playing college football that I needed, I was going to train no matter what, but I needed kind of a new goal. And I remember I picked up a powerlifting USA and up until this point, I really had, I mean, I knew what powerlifting was, but I had no idea, no idea they wore suits and shirts. So my first first pile lifting USA ever picked up, I flipped it back, and I saw they had a top 100 list. And I think it was either the 220s or the 242s. And I was like, you know, guys, you know, benching 600.

I thought I was strong. I was benching like low 400, squatting around seven, you know, and I was like, my God, these guys are freaks. Yeah. And then you realize, you know and i was like my god nick these guys are freaks yeah and then you realize you know this was like a year later i was like oh they were so i was pretty ignorant to a lot of this stuff at the time uh and then i started reading up on powerlifting and i was kind of i found uh louis simmons through the old Deep Squatter website, Jason Burnell. Yeah. And I read some of his stuff.

And I was at that point in my life where I needed something different. I needed something new. And I was already very explosive. So it seemed like a natural fit that Louie – plus you get the max out every week, which was fun. Yeah. And so I started down that path. To me, all the West Side stuff was very easy to grasp. Like I spent, you know, 10 years of my life trying to explain it to people,

and I couldn't believe how complicated everyone made it to me. It was very, very easy. Yeah. It took me maybe two weeks to figure it out. Because it was pretty easy. You max out in one day and go real fast the next day. That was it. I mean,

really? Yeah, that's it. And so to make a long story short, I started, I power lifted for about four or five years. And I, when I was a kid,

my dad got me an old Fred Hatfield plyometric book. You know, it was way, way beyond my years of knowledge that I would ever be able to use any of this stuff. Then I looked up Fred Hatfield, or I read the bio on the back, and he squatted 1,000, more than 1,000. When I was a kid, I'm like, oh, that sounds like a great idea. That was my goal.

Always my goal was to squat 1,000. Then once I did that, I just didn't have the heart because I reached the goal. Does that make sense to you? 100% makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, and I just don't – once I reach something, I just don't care anymore. Like I'd rather go do something else. Me too.

It just – and, you know, there's a lot of little things in there. But the bottom line is, you know, I always make excuses. Like you could say, well, the reason why I didn't want want to do this because my son was just born or this and that but the reality is like you just don't want to do it because there was nothing this was never concerned before right you know i'm saying yeah and i'm so with you i mean the moment i broke ed cohn's record that was i mean yeah and it's part of it and i didn't want to hang on uh for someone else yeah i didn't care what other people thought. Not like everyone was thinking anything.

I'm not that narcissistic to believe that. But I just didn't want to do anything I didn't want to do. And that seems to be a prevailing theme in my life. I just think it's pointless to do something you don't want to do. Anyway, within reason. I still pay my taxes, IRS. Yeah. I hate to do that.

And then so from there, I just, you know, I was working at Elite FTS. As far as I remember, I was the first full-time employee there. And, you know, Dave and I, well, Dave by far started the company but i was at least a little bit on the ground floor and uh you know i don't know if travis if you've ever been to like the very original location no i've only been to the one they're at now okay uh well they're brand new one you mean they're brand new one well no i mean the last time i was there was three years ago three years okay they they just built the brand new place oh yeah so i haven't been to that one i went i went to one like three years ago so if that was the one like a house type of place

yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um so you know even well prior to that uh you, we were in a very small – Dave and I packaged items up. It was me and Dave back in the back. No air conditioning, just sweating our shirtless, taping boxes up. It was really cool because then now I see what it's built into. I see Elite FTS gear wherever I go. If I go out of state or something, it's just really strange. Yeah, it's crazy, man.

But from there, I branched off. I think I was there for about 10 years. And then I branched off and started my own business. And this is where I am today. All right. Now let me go back. I got a few questions for a lot of those stages of your life. So now I know that when you play, yeah, you play the Arizona State, right?

No, no. University of Arizona. My bad. Much better team. Much better team. We were ranked number four in the country in 1998, and I was part of that team. We just had our 20th anniversary, I guess.

Yeah. That's amazing. I didn't go to it, as you can imagine, but yeah. And you play fullback? Yes. I. That's amazing. I didn't go to it as you can imagine, but yeah. And you, you play fullback. Yes. I did get that right. And so,

but let's talk about like you, cause you, you walked on there and still earned lots of playing time. Correct. Yeah. I mean, for me, I,

you know, I probably played like 30, 20 to 30 plays a game, which for a walk on was pretty big. Yeah. During, like I originally went to the Air Force Academy, and I didn't like it at all because my whole goal in college was,

it was never academic because to me academics were a given. Right. I didn't really struggle with any of that stuff. And I just wanted to play football. And then I realized that when you go to an academy, football is like the third on the list of no matter how much you want to, how much you love it, it's still, you know, academics and military first. Right. Then when I was there, I lost a ton of weight.

And at first I just, you know, it's you don't eat as much and all that other stuff. But they found out like two years later I had Graves' disease. what when i was at arizona they found out oh my gosh because i couldn't gain weight for like six years i was pretty much the same weight and you know when you're young there was no real internet back then especially when i was young i just figured i just you know i'm always running i'm always lifting you know i didn just, but I couldn't sleep. And they finally, the team doctor diagnosed me. And the good thing was his dad had been diagnosed with that earlier in the year. So he kind of, he kind of knew what to look for, if that makes sense to

you. So he was already familiar with it because it's very rare for a guy to get that disease. It's generally females. So maybe I'm a girl or something. I'm gender fluid. So but once I got my thyroid checked, I was diagnosed in like August. And right before two-a-day started or right when two-a-day started. By November, I had gained 65 pounds there you go and uh it was just like every bit of uh food and lifting i had done for like six years just like let's do it yeah uh my strength as you obviously can imagine went through the roof because when you have graves disease your body just kind of eaten itself.

Right. But anyway, so once I got my health in check, it was just a matter of time. I finally got a chance. I made the most of one opportunity that I had. That was a practice. It's kind of hard to explain, but it was a practice. I've heard the story, but tell this. It was a practice game, and no one else wanted to play.

And Coach Babers, who is the current head coach at Syracuse, said, you know, Jimmy, when they get in there, and I was the only running back at the time. You know, everyone else, a bunch of kids sat out or didn't dress, didn't want to play. Like some of the bigger name scholarship kids didn't want to be part of it. So I said, I'll do it. And from that day on, I traveled every single game and played.

What happened? Was it the fact that you were not afraid to get in there? Or did you get in there and like – Yeah, I also ran very well. It's hard to explain, but when you play in a – we call it a scout bowl for the scout team members. When you do that, there's a lot of – it's very run heavy because passing takes a lot of practice and time,

and generally a scout team doesn't get time other than practicing the other offenses that you're playing that year. I remember I played at Appalachian Sun, and I'm well familiar. Yeah, you're pretty run heavy, and there's only one offense and one defense. So it's not like when we score a touchdown, we get off the field. You just start again. And I was – dude, I ran – I was – you know, I wasn't in game shape.

I was in scout team shape. And then I had cut my head open. I've had a cut on my head for like six years playing football. It just never healed, you know, big scar tissue. And so not only did I run very hard, but I was covered in blood and the coaches, you know, at least back in the day, these days you would have been thrown out and you would have been triggering someone or something. So anyway, the head coach, Dick Tomey, told, I later learned, he said, I don't care where Tomei, told – I later learned he said,

I don't care where you put them, but put them somewhere. That's so awesome. But you know, man, a lot of people listening to our show are like athletes or strength and conditioning coaches. It's just important for people to know that. I even – I still work with athletes, and they just – it's all about the attitude. When you go to play a college sport, whether know, whether you're a scholarship or not, it's the attitude you go with.

It's like if you're, you know, scared or timid, it's probably never going to work out. But if you go there with that attitude that, you know, when I get a shot, I'm going to – I don't care who I'm – Yeah, everyone in their life has a lot of chances to shine, and it's just a matter of chances to shine. And it's just a matter of, are you ready? You know, my job at EFS got the same thing. Was when I met Dave, someone had told him that I was an English major. And then Dave was like, do you have any articles?

And before that, I had written like 50 articles because I knew what I wanted to do. I just wasn't in the position to do anything. Does that make sense? Right, totally. So every day I had written something. I mean, every single day I had tried to write something or improve something. So I already had a backlog of articles.

I'm like, well, as a matter of fact, yes. And so your opportunities come if you're prepared. If you're not you're just you know if you just sit around and mope and even with the football thing I had that was my third year at Arizona and uh my yeah my third season there so you know it's easy and I'm not saying I was perfect but you know you get a little depressed and uh you know because everyone who walks on at a division one university was the star of their team i wrote an entire article for this on t nation but and you know it's most of that stuff was just perseverance there's not a lot of good times

there's probably like two like two like oh it was pretty cool everything else miserable it was yeah i totally didn't even get to go in the same locker room. We didn't get to eat. Nothing. You know, you barely, no one knows your name. Like, you're at the bottom of the trash heap. Yeah. I didn't forget that either, by the way.

No, I'm with you, man. No, I'm totally, it's the same at all schools. You know, when you're the red shirt freshman and walk on, like, yeah, it's rough. Yeah. And so. I got my revenge, living well i'm doing all right yeah yeah you're doing really well so now let's fast forward to you know i love for people who were actually you know at west side bar everybody talks about west side barbell you know i'm west side a conjugate but you know really i think you'd agree unless you've actually trained

there you're not west side and you're not conjugate but yeah let's talk about being there what was it what was it like well before i had officially moved up uh to ohio for the uh elite fts job i had made a couple trips i already knew lou by the time i had moved there because I had, you know, Dave introduced me to him and I got to train at the original Demarest Road one. And to me, and I know it doesn't, everyone doesn't think that, but the original Demarest Road was where Westside will always be for me. It was, for people that don't know, it was in a shopping, it was like a strip mall in the uh in columbus it louis had painted

the front window black yeah you couldn't look i've been there yeah yeah it's and it's you know probably the size of most i don't know most people's average house like maybe the kitchen in the living room like if you were benching no one could be doing anything else generally in that room. Maybe belt squatting. Like it was very small and crowded. So I made a couple of pilgrimages up there, which was only like three hours or something. And I got to train with, you know, like back then I, you know, I was with, and I still did train. But, you know, that's where I met Mike Ruggieria.

I met Rob Fusner. You know, you meet Chuck was still there, obviously. So, you know, Mike Ruggiero is like one of the biggest humans I've ever seen in my entire life. Me too. Yeah. And he's such a teddy bear. He's so nice, you know.

Chuck is very standoffish of anyone. But eventually when I got to know him, he was a great, very funny, very personal person. He just doesn't appear that way to outsiders. Even Rob Fosner was super nice to me. He's a good guy, you know. He's probably the strongest person I've ever seen in my life. Rob was?

Yeah, just generally strong. Just a strong dude you know uh you know he pulled 780 cold man you know just kind of looking around i mean his first powerlifting meet he total elite and the the story is uh when he got to the meet he asked asked Dave what lift they were doing first. Man. Wow. What did Lou say? I don't know. If you watch the, and I don't think Lou sells them anymore.

I wish he would. The old West Side Tapes. I think it was the second incantation of some of the West Side Bench. It was a West Side Bench video. He had fuzz in there. Okay. Like demonstrating some of the exercises and you know lou's got you know where do we do the cuban press you know and all this stuff no one ever did the cuban press so rob was the model does that make sense yeah for some of this stuff and rob had was looked at lou like he's like what are you talking about and he's trying to demonstrate the lift to fuzz on camera they didn't edit it out yeah no it was just very funny because like i said fuzzner was just naturally i was just a strong

just strong he didn't do a lot of you know fancy stuff at all and uh so anyway uh but yeah actually when i first started training there that's when they moved to their spot. Can't remember the road, but whatever. It's kind of where they are now, I think, but they've expanded it since then. Yeah, it's pretty big now. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, you know, I got the train in the morning because of my boss was Dave Tate.

You know, he trained in the morning, too. So we both trained in the morning on Monday, Wednesday, my, my boss was Dave Tate, you know, he trained in the morning too. So we both trained, uh, in the morning on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And I just stayed a little bit later for work because I got in a little bit later. Right. And, uh, so, but it was awesome, man. You know, it was, the thing is, is I had spent so much time training as it was. And, uh uh you know i don't know how many years from 13 to i don't know i was probably 28 so i already had a lot of years under my belt and i had already squatted 920 or something 900 920 so you're on your way. I wasn't going in there weak or anything. No, you were well on your way. When I was at Kentucky, we had a small group of guys that all total elite

in literally a one-car garage. That's where we trained. You want to talk about Titan. So, yeah, so by the time I got there, I'd already at least had a good strength base. And obviously playing sports all those years makes a huge difference at least it did for me oh yeah so yeah I mean it was you know I was used to it though I guess in the way I mean it's I think if you train in a commercial gym that would have been a big change but when you think just from how I trained if you know when you don't know how people like a west side gym or a hardcore gym trains you

just train very hard all the time and then a lot of times you eclipse what you think actually happens if that makes sense yeah i mean i'm totally with you i mean i don't you know i just don't know what it was like to be at west side but i know like you know with ox and me and what we had down here yeah i totally get it i remember chris and i pulled up to west side barbell you know in that original spot you're talking about with the blacked out windows i'm like yeah i'm like this is the address man i was like i don't see it in the window was a little Inzer sticker and I'm like it must be it it's still hard to find even though it's you know like I think that first time that we drove up there to the new location it was like is this where it's at

it's still but it's nothing like it was it was like in the strip mall almost abandoned blacked out windows and I'm like where is this place and then we go in and there's somebody like they had IVs in their arm and I was like I was just a pup and I'm like where what is this place and then we go in and there's somebody like yeah they had ivs in their arm and i was like i was just you know a pup and i'm like where what is this place did you train there uh no i just just hung out yeah i just wanted to see him no the uh you know the other thing that i think people get wrong is like from the moment you walk in there to the moment you leave, it's nothing but screaming and intensity.

It pretty much was a bunch of dudes making fun of each other until your lift came up, then you got serious. And then that's what it was. It was who could make fun of people the most and rattle their cage the most. And, uh, it was just like football.

Yeah. You know, I work with football players now and nothing's changed. Yeah. And I, when I occasionally I players now and nothing's changed. Yeah. And I, when I occasionally I'll do like some face pulls with the kids and I can just feel it come out of me. I'm like, like just start berating the kids and like, oh, you guys aren't used to this. Are you, you know, doing a face pull challenge?

So a face pull challenge, but it was fun, you know? And uh, plus I knew, you know, I, I didn't go there not knowing a lot of the guys. I knew Lou pretty well. You know, I wasn't like, you know, having his child or anything. But, you know, I knew I had talked to Lou for years. So, but yeah. Then, you know, I got to train with JL. JL was one of the new guys too.

So we were, you know, we were the new blood. And Louie, you know, because we tried to, we went over to, you know, Bill Crawford and Mike Miller's place and train with them to learn how to bench. And you remember like the metal militia, of course, I still follow him a little bit on Facebook now.

So those guys could bench man. Yeah. So we learned how to, you know, use the bench shirt better. And it was just, it was, I don't think people can realize how awesome of a time that was when you,

like Travis, you were at your top and stuff like that. It was just a very fun sport. There was tons of camaraderie. I loved it. It's so different now. It's just a different era. I'm not going to be the old guy that knocks on the new era. But I enjoyed that time.

I think Metal Militia changed the face of bench pressing. I think forever. I think now everyone still uses their. you know that time and i think metal militia changed the face of bench pressing i think uh forever i think now everyone still uses their i do like the stuff i teach you got you crystal is like straight from metal militia i didn't come up with that you know those dudes did so i mean it's it was uh i don't know it was it was a good i mean i probably my first meet, I think, was in 2001. And there was just an air of. I don't know how to really. There's an air of danger.

Yeah. And it wasn't like you're going to get stabbed or anything. But the guys were, you know, some of these guys were, you know how this was. Try and wait. You're like, well, we'll see what happens, man. Yeah. You know, there's nothing really terribly calculated. It was fun.

And it wasn't what it is today. And to be honest i don't really follow i haven't followed a meeting probably since really you know maybe a year or two uh after i stopped you know competitive lifting it just once i was done i was done but a friend of mine you know know, Vincent DeCenzo. Yeah, of course. Oh, he's Rip McGee now, but yeah. He did a meet. What's that? I said he's Rip now. Yeah. Yeah.

He did a meet, I want to say, maybe like around a year ago, and I'm like, well, how was it? He's like, oh, it was really run smooth and all this stuff, and I'm like, are things different? He's like, man man it's not even the same sport now i think his big thing was there wasn't it was it's i don't know this is gonna sound really narcissistic and uh elitist but generally speaking if you went to a meet in ohio there was a good chance that some of the west side guys were there or someone

uh very big was going to be there and legends were made you know yeah you go to these meets and you know i remember chuck squatting uh his first thousand that was my very first meet was chuck's first thousand at 220 and then the next meet which was in west virginia was chuck opened with 1,005. And people were like, that's your all-time PR plus five pounds. And it was just kind of, like I said, there was a massive amount of camaraderie and a massive amount of just never knew what was going to happen. I remember.

I remember seeing those and thinking, because he was my biggest competitor, and I remember being like, oh, my God just and so all it did to me was like all right well now i gotta i gotta somehow figure out how to squat a lot more so yeah i mean his first his first meet he squatted a thousand he squatted nine he opened up with his again his pr which was or five pound pr which was 905 And he dumped it on his head. So his next lift was 965. You know, it makes sense.

Nothing he did make sense. Then he, then he squatted it. And then he squatted a thousand the next lift. And the, there was, and I, you know, even, and you might've been at this meet because I remember some of the North Carolina guys there. It was in North. It was like the Adirondacks. Yeah.

Yeah, I wasn't. But Chris, my dad was sick. And so I didn't know, but Chris was there. And that's when Andy Bolton pulled 1,000. And that room, when Chuck Squire had 1,000 for the first time, when Andy pulled 1,000, and I saw the first nine-something bench by Gene. Dude electric man yeah like you couldn't and it like i'm not saying like i've been to ufc fights that's really electric but it was there was in our little world it was something else i remember and it was awesome so and however i remember him like

changing the face of bench pressing like He was doing stuff, and I was shaking my head. Well, he benched 683 at 198 at the Arnold. And I remember it was like a 100-pound record. And I was like, how is that possible? I was saying the same thing. And that's when they discovered open back bench shirts. That was, I think, I can't remember if it was George. No, it was Sonny Kirshner.

He ripped his bench shirt in back, and he just, by mistake, found it. He's like, oh, this works. You just pull it all the way down. It gets even tighter. Yeah. Yeah. Can't touch anything, but we'll see what happens. Yeah.

No, it was an interesting era. So what do you think about that? You know, I agree with the camaraderie thing. You know, I definitely don't you know the whole era of social media it's good because you know it helps me make a living but it changes like the athlete and like you know like all I was there you know I was competing was I was there to lift as much as weight as I could and beat anyone in the room but now it's about more than that now it's about I got to make sure I get videos of myself and I got to document my warm-ups and all this stuff.

Can you imagine, Travis? I don't spend a lot of time on social media. It just doesn't interest me. It's funny because one of the greatest things about when you were with Elite FTS, you would call up and there was, no one knew what was going to happen. Like you'd be like, listen, man, I've been doing this different thing with chains, man. We'll see if it works. Yeah. And I had no idea. Like, you know, you're like, you know,

you're trying to describe for, I'm just, this is just an example. I describe what you've been doing. And then by the time, you know, the, the Arnold came around or, you know, remember when you broke Ed Cohn's thing that was in Atlanta? Right. And the anticipation, here's the best way to put it, Travis, is years ago when KISS was huge, like in the 70s and 80s, especially the 70s, all you had was word of mouth of what the shows were going to be like. Does that make sense? Yeah.

And you know, so when like Pantera came to Illinois for the first time, when I got to see them, no, everyone was just like, man, I heard they're going to do this. And I heard that like this,

but you had no idea. So you went to the show and it was totally an awesome surprise. Now I had all that. As soon as an hour after the show, it's on YouTube. You know, I've already seen it and so there was uh i liked having that mystery i think it was fun you know i agree you

had no idea what you know and then you people were i don't know it was just a different thing so i'm with you i'm with you what about the change from you know the equipment back to the raw i don't think that has i I don't, what do I think? Yeah. Yeah. I just don't think it matters. You know, I, you still have some of the crazy guys, like the Dan greens.

I don't know if he's still relevant. I just think it just allows more people to do the sport, you know, because of it's squatting in suits and benches and shirts, even deadlifted in the suit. Remember how painful that the old marathon suits and the, because of, uh, it's squatting in suits and benches and shirts, even deadlifted in the suit. Remember how painful that the old marathon suits and the, and the, uh, I hate it all, man. I'm going to be honest. I love the raw because that was miserable. I remember my body, like, like, um, my hand and my forearms feeling like they

were going to, you know, snap and benching over seven. Well, we'll get back to the podcast in just a minute, but I did want to take this opportunity to say thank you. We want to thank our sponsors who are supporting our nonprofit weightlifting team, and we want to thank you for supporting those sponsors. Be sure to go pay them a visit and let them know that you appreciate them supporting a nonprofit weightlifting team. If you're in the market for barbells, plates, all sorts of equipment,

go check out Intek at www.intekstrength.com. That's www.intekstrength.com. And for the best pre-workout and post-workout supplements, give Hack Nutrition a visit. They can be found at www.haknutrition.com. And if you want to enjoy the recovery benefits of transdermal magnesium, it is amazing. Make sure that you get some MG12. You can find out more about them at mg12.com. That's MG, the number 12.com. Well, thanks for your support of these great companies.

And now back to the podcast. Like my hand in my forearms feeling like they were going to, you know, snap and benching over seven. So now those guys only have to go four or 500 pounds and it's awesome. It's like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, there's, there's there's you're still gonna have the freaks um and uh i just you know i think it's probably a little easier to get into the sport and i think uh

lifting has become more mainstream and that's you know that's fine i have no problems with that i think people should be healthier and stuff like that but i don't I wouldn't pay to see a guy run a 13 second under meter dash. No. And so that's kind of, and I'm not saying it, it means that his effort isn't worth it. I just don't care to see it. But there was definitely like, I felt like you're like a motorcycle gang back in the day.

You remember that. I mean, even before, you know, in the way before probably you even really started getting big, if you went to a meet and there was a bunch of dudes from Westside, everyone's like, dude, what's wrong with you? These guys are – Oh, yeah. Now, I remember the first time seeing them in person.

Like in 2001 was the first WPO in Orlando, and it was like that was my first really big meet um yeah and i remember seeing you guys and being like uh i mean i was just my heart was pounding like out of excitement like not you know more of this like there they are like you guys were like yeah motorcycle gang it was like seeing the hell's angels and you know they're all just you know you can tell that everything they've done had been you know there's all you guys were massive because you did so much bodybuilding stuff and like but it was all geared towards squatting benching and deadlifting so you're built you know

it's different kind of big and just it was awesome like it was a uh yeah and then you know i still uh you know when you talk to lou and I haven't talked to Lou in probably about a year or so. But, you know, when you talk to Lou, especially today, I always tell people this is, imagine if you had like all the words in War and Peace jumbled up. Okay. And you threw them against a wall all randomly in order to understand war and peace you'd have to learn how to decipher all the words right uh in the order and that's kind of when lou says something it's never what it is it's always what it what you interpret it the you know the correct interpretation so that's one of the things

i learned i know yeah i got, I see him every so often. Like, you know, and like he, I had him on this same podcast, maybe a couple of years ago, two years ago. So like,

um, you know, and hearing him talking, like, I totally know what you mean by trying to decipher. Talks like a weird riddle sometimes, you know? And,

uh, but I'll tell you, I don't know how many times you've talked with Lou, but that dude is hilarious. He's very funny. Like you could have a dinner with him. Your parents could have a dinner with him and they would laugh. Oh yeah. You know, he would do something to make, you know, and, uh, so as far as, you know, just being, you know, as far as I'm concerned,

he's one of the greatest minds to ever, uh, in any kind of strength training to ever walk this earth and to be able to talk to him and learn from him. And it's funny because it's everyone's like, well, did you learn how to box squat? I'm like, man, you think that's what I learned from Lewis Lewis Simmons was how to sit on a box. And so there's so much stuff that, you know, over the years I'm realizing, I'm like, oh, okay, I see now what he was saying. And it may not have a one-to-one influence on exactly what I'm doing with some of the athletes, but I'm like, ah, I see it now, you know. I know, man. Totally, like, the people, even the people who hate on Lou,

which, you know, there's a segment of the population. A lot of weightlifting coaches, you know, I coach a lot of Olympic weightlifting now, but a lot of the weightlifting coaches, you know, give him a hard time, mainly because he's bashed them so much. Yeah. I mean, he deserves, you know, he deserves the criticism. I get it.

But at the same time, there's a lot of, you know, there's a famous musician who has some not so reputable beliefs. And he also was a convicted murderer. Yes. He's one of the most reviled and revered musicians in some of the music I listen to. A lot of people won't listen to him because of his beliefs and what he's done. He said, if you don't separate your art from your politics, you're not going to have a lot.

You're not going to be listening or watching a lot of things. Does that make sense? No, I totally agree. It ends up limiting you. So even with, you know, some of the bands, like I think Rage Against the Machine has one of the, it's totally not my type of music, but I think their bassist and their drummer are some of the best I've ever heard in my life, the way that they work together.

I find their political beliefs horrid. I mean, disgusting. But I'm like, you know what? So do I find a lot of other things. I'm like, man, if that prevented me from learning from them, then I'm an idiot, not them. That's exactly what i said in my defending him i'm like like you know like a lot of really brilliant people have learned a lot from this guy so your guys are saying that you can't learn anything from him just because he

hurt his feelings i mean like you know do you do you use a glue hammer raise do you use reverse hyper you know do you do do you go heavy max effort i mean, there's so many things he's taught. And to say he offended me, so I'm not going to listen to anything he says, is being small-minded. It's like all that does is hurt your athletes. Yeah, it just makes you – yeah. So I learned – and I don't feel like that about Lou. I think he's a great coach.

But my current conundrum is uh for years i've been telling my oldest son how great uh of a movie usual suspects is okay i love that movie i think you need to be old enough to watch it because you have to understand like you know how you know it's a crazy movie right you never know who kaiser sose is and then you realize i love kevin kevin spacey and the director, Brian Singer, are pedophiles. And so what do I do? Do I throw away a movie I loved? And I can understand why people do that.

That's my big, it's kind of like my stopping point is Predators. But at the same time, I'm like, is me not watching it you know am i just becoming part of the problem that i complain about to people and so that's kind of my uh current i'm with you uh moral dilemma i'm going through i'm with you yeah the dude has done so much so let's talk about now um okay elite fts like what was it like know, being a part of the start of like now the most famous company in the world? When I, I had met Dave, uh, and I, I'm going to guess maybe around August. Okay. Of 2001. And we spent a couple of days together and we hit it off like greatly, you know? Uh, and then Dave told me, he's like, listen, I'm hosting the meet in November. Uh, there was the, And we spent a couple of days together and we hit it off greatly.

And then Dave told me, he's like, listen, I'm hosting the meet in November. There was the IPA or whatever. But Dave hosted the best meets you've ever seen. Three-day meets, run smooth. Everything was perfect. And so he convinced me to do it. So myself and my training partner, Kevin Deweese did the meets. And after the meet, uh, I had totaled, this was in a two 75 class with the old fronts, not the canvas, but the old fronts, you know, uh, you know, uh, what is it? Polyester suits. I ended up totally

1905 just under elite in my very first meet. And I, you know, I you know I had no idea what I was going to squat and I squatted 825 I think and uh anyway to make a long story short after that meet the next day or two days later Dave called me he's like dude you gotta you're on our website now you're on the Q&A you've earned it you know like you know you were I was a coach at the time and uh you know did a very good meet so i from that point on i had worked dave had uh hired me as kind of like a month-to-month basis kind of thing i worked from home right but i would do a lot of articles i would proofread stuff uh q a you know whatever needed to be done. You know, I did all the product descriptions, stuff like that. So I think I did that for about a year.

And then Dave offered me a job full time. And I moved up from Lexington, Kentucky to London, Ohio. And then from there, it was just every year, you know, for six years, it just got it doubled in size, you know, as far as money. And, you know, we outgrew this, we outgrew that. It was really kind of crazy. Why do you think, what made you guys so successful? Well, I think there's a couple of things. One, I think Dave is an awesome business guy. I think Dave was put on this earth, not to lift weights, but I think Dave was put on this earth to be a business person. I think he just, that's his love i think uh just like he loved lifting weights i think he loves that part if that makes sense i think and i did a whole seminar one time on the fitness

business and my opening line was you know the difference difference between Dave and I is I do a business so I don't have to do anything. So I can enjoy my life. Yeah, I just don't care. And I just want to hang out with my kids and do stuff and have free time, more free. Well, you know what I'm saying? I do know. And then Dave was put on this earth, like his business is his life. And I don't mean that in a negative way.

That's what he loves to do and uh so you have to decide which one you are you know all these great captains of industry uh they don't do the business for anything other than because they want to do the business they don't care about any of the other stuff i mean having money is nice but the guys work so hard it doesn't even matter uh is that, you know what I'm saying? Like your, your only thing is you do off, you do your work at a, at a nicer desk. That's it. They're not really enjoying it. So that's one. Number two, I think Dave has stayed true to his, his vision. And I think like any business, like, you know, he got off course,

but I think he gets right back on and that's not again not a detriment to dave i think because he had these uh uh what i can't remember what he called him but basically he had his compass points he wrote down like listen if i ever get off track i do this with training i call it my training rules if you get off track you just look at these you know these four or five ideas or you know, so to speak, and it kept him on track. And the other thing is I think he grew the business according to those. So he never went for the quick fix, if that makes sense. Yeah, I know.

He never kind of said, you know, and I think he trusts his judgment. You know, that's another thing that I've learned at a very early age to trust my gut. And whether or not people agree with it or, you know, if you try to do it for another reason other than what your gut tells you, I think you're screwed. So I think he's done a great job with that. And number three, I think he's hired good people. And I'm not just saying that because I was once hired. I think, you know, not every hire was great, but I think for the most part, you know, like Dave wanted after when he hired me, I was, I handled all the training, you know, I took over all the seminars, right. So Dave could do the business stuff. And that was a great decision because you can't do all the business stuff and all the training stuff.

It's impossible. You know, just like if you run a gym, you have to decide if you're going to be a business guy or a gym guy. Even with my business right now, my wife handles everything, all the business stuff. I just do all the, you know, I call myself the quote unquote, the talent, uh, the spoiled pampered talent that doesn't do anything. Uh, you know, the tortured artist. Uh, yeah. So tortured. Yeah. Uh, so I think that, uh, that made a big difference because it allowed him to concentrate on the business. But yeah, I mean, as smart as Dave is with training and as good of a lifter as Dave was, Dave's a better businessman. And I think he'd take that as a compliment. I'm going to tell you, he'll tell you too, Dave struggled. He went to business school, so to speak, this entire time.

And really, he put the work in to be a better. It's not by by mistake that it's big. Let's put it that way. Right. You know, the other thing is, you know, I still see Dave and we I did a seminar at Elite maybe about a year, less than a year ago. And Dave and I were out in the hallway and we're talking with a bunch of people and it got to the point where we were just talking in our usual weird code and we were laughing so hard.

And there was like five people around us who were just kind of looking and we had literally had tears in our eyes because we were laughing so hard and you know, no one got the joke and it was, it was an awesome time to be there. It was awesome relationship. I mean, I think about all the people I met, Travis. Yeah. Just through that.

I know how much it's done for me. And I was just barely on the Q&A. And like, yeah, I mean, my wife was on the Q&A. I mean, wow. So, yeah, it's it's it's weird because, you know, we had like the North Carolina guys. We had the South Carolina guys. We had Brian Schwab down in Florida. We had Joe DeFranco up in New Jersey.

Ironically, powerlifting on the West Coast really wasn't that big. But we still, you know, Chad Ikes was out in Vegas, you know. So you got to meet all these different people. Talk about a big dude. Yeah, Chad was huge. That dude was huge. And never slept. Remember that?

Yeah. He was huge. And I got to meet, you know, I still keep in touch. And people, some of my friends from Australia and England, I still kept in touch with. And they would come visit here and we'd hang out. I mean, it's a great time you know and then the crew uh from obviously from um uh sweden but uh finland yeah

yeah it's it's always interesting when the you know they speak much better english and i speak finnish yeah and uh yeah they had i mean hana was strong yeah i remember watching him pull the 880 you know like two in the morning in orlando it was like straight leg deadlift yeah it was insane yeah exactly all right so now let's talk about because uh we're about to go a little over today this is important let's talk about 531 man like how did you come up with that mess like how does it help me there uh once i got done competing in powerlifting i was obviously uh still gonna train and as i'm sure i know 100 sure uh when you were training or when i was trained everything revolved around training in the fact that you would think about it you'd think of maybe if I did this little thing or maybe I could tweak this. It became like a chess game in your head.

Does that make sense to you? Yeah, I do. Yeah, it's horrid. And I got to the point where I was like, man, I remember when I used to go in the weight room and pound weights and then leave. Like it was like I knew. So all I did was I'm like, I'm going to figure out a way to make it as easy as I possibly can and just train like I did prior to training at Westside. And even prior to that, I had, you know, benched 400, which my bench has always been my worst lift. And I squatted 625 for a double when I played football, which is very strong when you're running all the time. I weighed about 220.

Wait, did you say you benched 625 for a double? No, no. I benched like 400. Oh, I was like, that's not what you're saying. All right, all right. Yeah. And this was all when I was playing football. So all I did was I'm like, well, how did I train during football?

What did I do? And then I just kind of developed something from that. It was just I kind of worked backwards a little bit. And then it took me about, I don't know, maybe two years to get it down to exactly what it is today, maybe even a little bit longer. And then I started experimenting with some of my friends, you know, who were kind of in the same boat or just, you know,

guys that came to Elite that trained there every week. And, you know, who were kind of in the same boat or just, you know, guys that came to elite that train there every week. Right. You know, they just needed something very basic and they were my guinea pigs. And I, uh, so, you know, and I started, so, you know, we use a very light training max. Okay. And that I stumbled upon that two different times. And all of a sudden I pulled a PR deadlift, uh, even when I was at Westside and I was like, you know, what did I do?

And, uh, so then I was like, maybe there's something to all this stuff, you know? And I ended up having a stronger deadlift, a stronger press squat, not because uh i used gear and then i had a my bench pound for pound was way way better uh then now granted there's a lot of training that goes involved you know years of training but i was like man there's something to be had here so from that point on it was just about always uh i like dave did with his company i set down uh four and then eventually five principles that i believed in and it just took off from that then it just about manipulating the variables to uh without ever violating your principles and uh so you know from that the first book i think was published in 2009, I believe.

I'm not exactly sure when. And then, obviously, it did very well. And then it just started, you know, gaining steam. And it really hasn't stopped. It's crazy, man. How many copies of that have you sold? Yeah. For all the books, probably half a million.

That's awesome. Bro, that's so cool. I mean, like, you know, I love seeing, like, you know, like I met so many people in my lifetime. But just to see a person that really stuck to doing what they love doing and it worked and now they're successful. Man, that is like what all these young kids are in college right now dream of.

Like, you actually did it. Yeah. And, you know,ave will be the first one to tell you everything that happened happened organically like i didn't i never thought it would be like this you know and like uh after the success of the first book a lot of guys try to get on to elite fts's website because they saw you know I was doing very well. And Dave said to them, I was like, dude, you know, Jim's been doing this for eight years with no pay. Eight years. I answered, and I think we calculated something like a thousand to 1200 questions a month

for eight years. And all the time I spent on the phone with people, it's like, I organically built my, my, my customer base, so to speak. I had no idea I was going to write a book. You think in 2001 I had any idea? I was living hand, you know, literally not even paycheck to paycheck. I barely had any money. And if I tell you how much money I made, I made, you know, 700 or 800 bucks a month. How much was it?

700 to 800. I can't remember which one it was. A month. How much? Seven to 800. I can't remember which one it was a month, two years of my life. I mean, that's a sad, it's a whole nother podcast about this. Yeah. But you know what?

Uh, you know, I didn't have any kids. I didn't have any responsibilities other than lifting and coaching. It was, you know, you, you budget your money very well and you don't,

you know, I don't do anything, but it was fun. And I'd met some of my best friends in my life. Now it's very funny because nowadays when I fill up my truck, I just fill it up and walk away. Back then it was like, listen, I got six bucks. Yeah. I got to cut this pump off exactly when it's $6.

I don't have enough change to go over. I'm with you. I've been there. Yeah. And so everything kind of happened without me having a really big plan. I'm one of those people. And even at a very early age, I figured this out. I was never, I was goal oriented, but I never, I was more process oriented for even for my little kid. Like, listen, how am I going to play on the varsity as a sophomore? Well, listen, if I just run hills and squat a lot, you know, I'll give myself a shot.

Yeah. Instead of brooding about not playing or whatever. So even with all this, you know, the stuff that I, you know, happened for me, it was just like, listen, if I just immerse myself and always write and answer as many questions and, and try to learn from as many people as possible, uh, you know, something's going to happen. I don't know what. Well, it was an absolute honor having Jim on the podcast with us. Stay tuned for next week when we have part two of our interview with him.

And that one is amazing as well. So if you want to listen to more podcasts like this, you want to check out our free articles. Of course, we've got our eBooks and coaching for you as well. All of that can be found over at mashelite.com. That's mashelite.com. Well, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. That's a wrap, friends.

That is a wrap. Jim Windler, part one, 531 one system part two is coming up next week which is super exciting also we'll remind you we're going to remind you one ton challenge.com forward slash join 12 month program we're going to make you super strong the goal is to get in 2 000 pounds for males 1200 for women snatch clean jerk squat dead bench an eight week cycle dedicated to each of those with a four-week peak week cycle where you're going to pr every single lift starts with a back squat cycle and right now we're 100 in prs in eight weeks whatever you squat right now i guarantee you're going to squat at least 20 pounds more than that that's insane

20 weeks it happens 100 of the time so far. That's unreal. OneTonChallenge.com forward slash join. Also, thank our sponsors. Organifi.com forward slash drug. Save 20% on everything in the store. The greens, the reds, the golds, the juices, and then SavageBarbell.com

Use the coupon code BARLIFE B-A-R-L-I-F-E to save 25% on all orders. Friends, we'll see you on Wednesday.