Barbell Shrugged - 84- CrossFit, Freestyle, and Gymnastics with Movement Expert Carl Paoli

Episode Date: October 9, 2013

The Shrugged crew joins freestyle movement expert and former gymnast at his home gym San Francisco CrossFit and talks about how to make your movement sexy.

This week on Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Barber, Welcome to Barbell Struggle. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Chris Moore and Doug Larson at San Francisco CrossFit. We're hanging out with Carl Powley. Good pronunciation. Gymnastics. Very good. He's known as the gymnastics dude in CrossFit. One of the gymnastics dudes. One of the gymnastics.

It's funny. You know, everyone knows me as the gymnastics guy when I actually don't even care about gymnastics that much anymore. Oh, yeah? I know. It's funny. Have you transcended the gymnastics it's funny you know everyone knows me as the gymnastics guy when i actually don't even care about gymnastics that much anymore oh yeah i know it's funny but uh have you transcended the gymnastics no i mean i did gymnastics growing up and i used gymnastics as an excuse to talk about certain things in the world of strength conditioning but the world of artistic gymnastics as you see it in competition is no longer there and the stuff that we do in the world of crossfit or strength conditioning uh gymnastics wise doesn't even look like gymnastics so i pay very little attention to gymnastics but it's cool it's a good term to have at least

people say it's calisthenics or something like that i hate that yeah i hear calisthenics i think like jumping jacks and maybe push-ups and that's about it nothing fancy i know it goes back to that pe time and you're just like oh that's boring but if you go online and you actually google calisthenics right now you get all those bar stars guys that are in the park doing crazy stuff like those russian guys who do crazy shit and the guys like in brooklyn who do the crazy things yes the bartenders so that calisthenics looks pretty badass to me but i hear calisthenics too and i think like punishment i know it's kind of boring so cool calisthenics looks pretty badass to me I hear calisthenics too and I think like punishment I know Gymnastics sounds so cool

Calisthenics sounds like I got in trouble So I guess you're on to something new then New and sexy It is definitely sexy It's a new space It's not what you knew to be gymnastics It's not like what you did in gym class It's a new thing that applies to your life

It means something for you and helps you be better At everything you do No doubt I think you know when i quit gymnastics the big thing was this is how you do it period there's this straight line you just follow this is the plan and they had the solution this is how you do it and when i quit gymnastics i quit gymnastics because well i injured myself a little bit as well but you competed in Spain. I competed in Spain. That's true. The slight accent is probably effective with

the ladies. There you go. A little slight accent works well. It works sometimes. Sometimes they think I'm just dumb. It happens. Handsome dumb, that's to your advantage. There you go. That's what I'm trying to read up. They think they're taking advantage of you. Yes, they probably do That's what I'm trying to read up. That's right. They think they're taking the band to you.

Yes. They probably do. Yeah, I got this guy. But anyways, just gymnastics is one of those things. It's like, this is the lane. This is how you do it. This is how you make it happen. And it didn't really happen for me.

So I felt a little disappointed. I was like, the system is wrong. This is dumb. But I found wakeboarding. I found snowboarding afterwards. And that's a freestyle sport where it's just anything goes. And I happened to get pretty good quickly.

And people were like, oh shit, how do you do that? I trained hard all my whole life to move well. Exactly. Exactly. But it was very cool to be able to see that, oh, the foundation of gymnastics actually carried over. And it wasn't about the big, hard level skills or tricks. It was actually about just the foundation of gymnastics actually carried over and it wasn't about the big hard

level skills or tricks it was actually about just the foundation can you walk can you jump can you land can you do a handstand do you understand where your body is in space that's it and then fundamentals yeah fundamentals and that carried over and i think being able to see that uh across disciplines is something that i guess I was doing early on, but it wasn't until CrossFit that I really realized that, oh yeah, that's what I do. I jump from one modality to another. I may be a specialist in gymnastics or whatever, but I can see why Olympic weightlifters do what they do. I can understand why the endurance athletes do what they do, and then my job is to just cross them over. So I call it freestyle movement, but you understand movement from the fundamentals

of gymnastics and everything else just makes sense. Exactly. I think, I think a lot of weight lifting coaches kind of, and athletes kind of see it the same way too. Yes. It's very similar. I think so. I mean, I run into a lot of egos and I have an ego myself, of course. You think you have the solution to the problem. And I think there's a lot of stubbornness, especially in those specific disciplines. And my job is to break down those walls and say, dude, it's not about that. It's about this bigger picture. It's about this team. It's about, you know, the road to win the olympics or whatever

thing you want to accomplish and if you understand that and you can share that with people now you're setting a benchmark that's going to really change the game and i that's what i say all the time i'm like i want to make history and i want to change the game so jumping jumping from one discipline to another that's that's the. You were talking about freestyle. I was doing some further searching because before today, last week, I was like, well, I know that Carl's a former gymnast and he has gymnastics wide, but then I found a NACA. Is it N-A-K-A?

Yeah, N-A-K-A, NACA Athletics. That was my first little company that I started here in the U.S. in 2004, and the goal was to train action sports athletes. That was my first little company that I started here in the U.S. in 2004. And the goal was to train action sports athletes. And I was thinking, you know what? I'm going to do some gymnastics, strength and conditioning that I know, and a lot of trampoline work. And then I'm going to have a... Scariness.

Yeah, scariness. I'm so terrified of trampoline. They're awesome. They're awesome. If you know how to use them. I don't. Gravity rides me too hard for these things. No, you'll love it.

You'll love it you'll love it anyone that gets on a trampoline smiles it's amazing seriously it's like trying to skip and frown

at the same time it's impossible that's right I've never tried to do that you ever get into parkour career run type stuff I have

it just hurts a lot does it it does you're not landing on a soft mat all the time this dude's like an elite level gymnast.

He's like, no, it hurts. This has to be the thing where when you see the YouTube video, all these great moves back to back, there's got to be a hundred that the guy just runs right to the fucking wall. We take, we take. Let me roll back and do that again. Exactly. Well, you know what's funny is that the first time I think people started

seeing me in the CrossFit world was because there was this Ninja Warrior audition tape that I put up. I made it to the show and I fell on the first obstacle. Terrible. What was the first obstacle? Just some sidestepping. I slipped before I

even crossed the line. With the slanted things that you have to hop from? You would think it's easy, right? Yeah, it looks easy on TV. When you're watching it, when I watch it, I'm like, I can't believe those guys can't make it across. No, these guys are dumb. I could do that snatch.

That's the same thing. Exactly. Well, it's not like things that you've practiced on before. You don't know what it feels like. You don't know how soft the padding is going to be or how much grip you're going to have. You've got to just go out there and just kind of make it happen. I got extremely nervous, actually. There was a guy in front of me that supposedly was good

and he fell on the first obstacle as well. I'm like, how did he fall on this thing? And then they had all the cameras came up to him and it was at least a 10 minute wait for me. And the guy's like, okay, once we count you down, it's ready to go. And I was just waiting and waiting and waiting. I got so nervous. My hands went numb. And as soon as I crossed the line, I slipped. And I was just like, I'm in the water. This is pathetic.

The only way you can do that kind of shit is to do it and miss that jump like 100 times. Then you've got to get the feel for it. It's the only way. You've got to jump in and get the feel. Yeah. There's nothing like jumping. That damn salmon ladder is the nastiest thing I think I've seen. Well, that's the whole thing.

It's about jumping in and just getting it done. And I think people are so picky about, oh, yeah, this is the best way to train. This is the best thing you should be thinking about. Or this is the technique. This is exactly what you should be doing. And it's not about that. It's about just jumping in and let your body take over. And your story is so, I say you are, all of our individual stories will be so unique and all

the variables are so different. You must jump in. All these great minds can guide you and be your educators, but you got to fucking jump, man. Right. It's you. Right. That's exactly what it is.

You're saying before we got started, you were working on a book. I am. It's called Freestyle. Doesn't it suck? Now that you put it out there, you have to finish it now. To write a book Is like the biggest pain in your ass It's the biggest pain in the ass

And it's so hard And I I'm a terrible writer But as you said If I just write like I speak Hopefully it'll come out nice I wanna I think if you just

Present what you are now On the page Then it has to be good I think Like me You probably just Bust your own balls With the writing People probably Fucking love the writing Maybe they do Maybe they do That's what's bad About being a page, then it has to be good. I think, like me, you probably bust your own balls with the writing. People probably

fucking love the writing. Maybe they do. That's what's bad about being a writer is that you say to yourself, like, every word I've ever put on a page, you go, this fucking sucks. This is stupid. And even when people say, no, man, I found that to be really great, you go, yeah, but what's your motive? What do you want from me? You would just give me kindness.

Well, I think one of the things that is going to make it successful is that I have an awesome co-author. His is tony sherbondy he's a former uh well he's done a lot of things he's an engineer and he's done capoeira and he's a neuroscientist and phd freaking smart guy oh shit and i sense man yeah so very smart guy and what he's done is he hasn't really helped me write it. He's helped me organize ideas. And he's asked the hard questions. Like, people are going to ask you this. People are going to want to read it this way.

These are your compelling stories. Bring that out. And he's been awesome. So without him, I don't think it would ever really work as well as I think it's going to go. Making it easier for other people to get through. Making the content easier to follow. He's helping with the layout and the outline. Yes, exactly.

So he's really been a key part of that, and I was just thinking about it this morning. I'm like, I'm so glad I have him around because he's just been awesome, and I can't wait to share it. It's called Freestyle, and it's basically maximize sport and life performance with four basic movements, and those four movements you already know probably. You'll discover them. What are they? Oh, shit. the audience might be asking that question they're actually pretty simple um first one is a burpee be able to get on and off the ground second one is squatting but i talk

about the pistol just because it's a pretty advanced body weight movement but it also really relates well to things like locomotion anything anything that has to do with walking, running, jumping and landing with one leg, anything that has rotation involved. Then pushing mechanics, which leads up into the handstand push-up. And then pulling mechanics and being able to get over an obstacle, which is a muscle-up. These are all my fundamentals. That's right. You look exactly like a person that would do those four first thing in the morning. If you could teach me how to do a handstand, I would just give you all the money I have because I don't know how you did that.

Dude, let's make it happen right after this. I'm ready. I need a check. Oh, God. I need to pay rent soon. I just felt CTP's smile. So are you publishing small pieces of that online, like blog posts and then getting feedback? That way you can do little updates? Yes. So starting, think uh next week we're starting to film a series of videos and we're going to film nine videos on the outline and

start posting that i believe in december and then we're going to be posting every two weeks and then after that we'll probably post a little bit of an intro and then a couple of chapters uh leading up into june and then if june uh works out the way i want it to, the book will be published and we'll be happy. Nice. It's quite a timeline. I know. Structured. Yeah.

Did you set the structure? Or was this the organized person? We're constantly talking about these things. He brought the coffee. He did. He did bring it. Ivan, we love you. This guy falls through.

Thank you. We're going to pay you with much love. He just got a handjob single. He did. Love the pants, H.J. thank you we're gonna pay you with much love I can maybe be talked into it for lots of in the kitchen later on so where are you gonna publish those we're gonna publish the videos you were talking about this is on freestyle the book calm right now it's just a little subscription page that just has the book on it. But making that official before the end of the year and then just pushing it hard until the book actually comes out. So if you want to get those updates, you can go there right now and put your name and email in the box or something like that. That way when all of it comes out, you'll be notified.

Exactly. Perfect. So freestylethebook.com. Put your little name in there. I'll be notified exactly perfect so freestyle the book.com put your little name in there i'll be hunting you down as people as people might know i i uh i'm a social media hound i follow you on instagram yes you do and i uh saw some uh dancing stuff in europe what was that all about well let's see let's see it goes back to actually when I was doing gymnastics I had some breakdancing friends and I would go watch these guys I'll be like ah he's just a bunch of

knuckleheads they don't know what they're doing yeah and uh in 2006 I met a guy at a place called Acro Sports where I was working that was a b-boy breakdancer and he was a professional and I really didn't know what that meant but he's like you know what you should come with me to korea and check this thing out and i was like korea for a dance-off sounds like a movie i know it's weird but i'd have a hard time just going downtown korea dance-off i know it's just strange so but i got on this plane traveled for 15 hours to get to korea but when we got off off in Korea, all of a sudden there's buses picking us up, a bunch of people, fans, the whole thing. And I was thinking, what is this?

But all of a sudden there was this huge event, awesome competition, just super talent around. And I was like, this is it. This is the ultimate expression of freestyle, community, there's music, just awesome. And you see the guys spin around like 15 times in her head without their hands touching what what are you is this fucking computer animation humans are capable of this yes it's crazy it's crazy but these guys are just awesome

so i decided you know i really want to get into the community i'm a terrible dancer don't have any rhythm so i organized an event and we called the event down and dirty no routines no commandos uh it was awesome it was awesome and we actually had the second edition happened just two weekends ago here in san francisco which is fantastic this is pure break dancing type stuff like you just were talking about yes have you ever seen that dog i've seen the guys spin on their heads. You should watch like a battle, like a grinding battle

where these guys just fucking throw down. It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen. Have you ever seen me battle on the dance floor before? Yes, yes, yes. Every time Mike battles

on the dance floor, he thinks he won. The only reason he thinks he won is because he's drunk enough to actually be out there dancing in the first place. These guys dance sober.

That's the thing. I know. That's impossible. It's Mike breaking it down on the dance floor. Heavy, heavy quotations. Well, yeah, so dancing has been a big, big part of this thing. And just 10 months ago or so, I started just officially practicing. So every Friday at 10 with a teacher that that i have his name is milestone b-boy

milestone and he also actually runs a website called milestone breaks i'm just going to drop that in there milestonebreaks.com and he has a bunch of tutorials he does crossfit here with us and he trains and he's just been phenomenal so me and coach nate over here nate helming that you guys met earlier he uh has been dancing with me and it's been a great, great time. Nate has? Yes. Oh, we met him right before we got here, yeah. Yes.

So this guy has beginner breakdancing videos on his site? Yes. So if you want to learn to spin on your head, you know where to start? I'll get on that. Yeah. Yes. I'm going to start practicing. I've got a big hardwood floor open in my house.

CTP camp. It's the best. I'll put out my TV. I'll drive my wife crazy. She will love it. Yeah. First thing in the morning before breakfast. You will definitely get lucky after it.

Looks like we can do that for the video intro. No, that's actually not a very slippery one. I've got a couple of splinters from that one already. But anyways, yeah, it's dancing has been a huge part of what I do right now. And it's really helped me with my thinking and bringing it into just basic strength and conditioning has been huge. Would you consider even like a little bit of a meditation practice on this? Cause it's hard to, it's so foreign to you. It's so challenging. It's so fun that I'm sure it washes out the concerns you might be having every other part of your life. It's probably another good reason to do it. Definitely. You're not embarrassed about

anything after that. Shed your shame, man. Shake your ass. Shed the shame. It's basically, you know, three 30-year-old guys in a room, 10 in the morning, getting down. So, it's kind of funny. You know what, man? We don't even care. It's awesome. We get fired up. We're like, yeah, dude, that was amazing. So, we get

really fired up. Awesome. Alright, we're going to take a break real quick. When we come back, we're going to talk about... Make something up. I can't think of anything. Keeping it sexy. Keeping it sexy. How Carl keeps it sexy. I like it.

Hey, guys. Welcome to the break. Mike Bledsoe here. Just a reminder to go over to barbellshrug.com. There's a video version of this podcast which you probably picked up on and you can go and view that and a lot of times we make references or we're showing a movement or something like that and if you're watching the video you you can see what's going

on there um what's everything ctp what am i going to tell those folks oh yeah uh if you're watching video version there's a technique wad uh you'll learn something new about how to do a snatch or a clean and jerk or a muscle up or something like that. We'll usually put that in the middle of the show, so make sure to check that out. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the rest of the show. We're back here at San Francisco CrossFit here with Carl

Powley. I said it right a second time on the microphone. You said it so well. That was really good. So how are you keeping it sexy? Dude, that's a good question. I said it right the second time on the microphone. You said it so well. You set kind of a record, dude. Yeah. That was really good. So how are you keeping it sexy? Dude, that's a good question. I've been training lately as much as I can.

All the travel was not good for me. Makes it tough. Oh, seriously. I was in the worst shape of my life for the past three years. Airport food. Have you ever lost your six pack? I already lost it. Oh, it's gone.

Yeah, it's gone. Who picked it up? I think Jason it. Oh, it's gone. Yeah, it's gone. Who ripped it up? I think Jason added to his with yours. Seriously, he is so ripped. Every time I'm in these CrossFit gyms, I'm just like, guys, are you getting... Jesus Christ. What are you on? We talked to him the other day. He only eats like twice a day, but he's like 215 pounds of pure muscle.

Insane. Just shredded. Insane. Insane. But I'm trying to get my sexy back, training as much as I can. CrossFit has been awesome for that. And then a little break dancing when I can. Excellent.

I do the awkward wobble. One of the things that I've been really trying to learn more about lately is gymnastics progressions. And I feel like we have pretty good progressions in CrossFit for barbell work. And, you know, just the very basic gymnastics movement, like an air squat. Yeah. Maybe there's some good progressions out there for pistols and stuff like that. But what are some things you think that most CrossFit coaches would benefit from hearing as far as, like, teaching people progressions to, like, a handstand pushup? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned the squat. I think CrossFit does a great job at teaching squatting. And I think they've come up with some pretty unique solutions to fix basic, just no bar, just squat. And I think it's pretty good. Now, the evolution of that is interesting because everything we do, squatting happens to have a barbell on it.

And we're always loaded and what's happened is that because of this concept of barbell work or just something with dumbbells or kettlebells has forced us into certain positions that we think we have to adopt all the time and it's actually taken away from some of the basic motor pattern that the squatting has, which is just being able to hip hinge. When I wake up in the morning, I don't really squat out of bed with my chest up. I usually bend over and I put my nose almost by my toes. I put my hands on my knees and I stand up. It's almost like I'm dead lifting more than squatting.

And it's interesting because I think that's one of the things that's been really missed. It's like, okay, we're going to do this thing called squat therapy. We're going to put you against the wall, chest against the wall, arms up in this really weird position. You're going to try to squat there. And so natural. It's awful. And I look at him just like, what are you doing? First of all, your guy looks weird. He probably hates you already. I read this on the blog I assumed it was really great to do Seriously, it is a good thing to do once in a while It's probably not bad if you're trying to teach people barbell stuff

but you're talking about more natural movement What does it look like when you get up in the morning? I was thinking about this because of my dad and I was like, my dad and my mom they need to squat and my mom's like I have really bad hip pain. And she does yoga and stuff

and she feels pretty good. But they're scared of getting into CrossFit. I'm like, don't be scared. But they're teaching all these things. I've tried that stuff. It feels uncomfortable.

I hate it. CrossFit is dumb. Basically, that's what they're saying. And, you know, it was as simple as just telling my dad, hey, can you bend over and touch your toes?

And he's like, oh, no, no, I'm too stiff. I'm like, hey, you can bend your legs. No one tells you that you can't bend hey, can you bend over and touch your toes? And he's like, oh, no, no, I'm too stiff. I'm like, hey, you can bend your legs. No one tells you that you can't bend your legs when you bend over. You know, these concepts are like, I should keep my legs straight. Someone has told him. He did gymnastics, of course.

So he's like, straight legs as you bend over. Who cares about straight legs? I am with you. You know what I mean? I hate not bending my knees. I feel the same way. I'm like, whatever. So I said, you know, just bend your legs, touch your toes.

He's like, oh, yeah, that worked. And it's funny because as he does that, his background, and if someone in the strength and conditioning community saw that in the room here as we're working, they'd be like, hey, no, no, no, rounded back is bad. Don't do that. If you've got 500 pounds on top of it. Exactly. Exactly.

So you have this preconceived notion that rounded back is bad. Don't do that. If you got 500 pounds on top of it. Exactly. So it's just, you have this preconceived notion that rounded back is bad. Bent knees. If I do, the spine does do this pretty well, you know, exactly. So it's being able to see movement for what it is in the moment and why that movement is being performed. And then being able to say, Hey, as a strength and conditioning coach, as crossfit coach as a gymnastics coach my job is to go up and optimize how that movement in particular should be done so you can do it many times for long periods of time whatever and then be able to say hey i'm going to describe it back at you but in the form of a progression meaning in a development a roadmap into the next thing so if you were just bending over with your back rounded and bent knees,

now I'm going to say, hey, I'm going to give you a progression that's going to build up to that, but it's going to allow you to load it up later on. It's going to allow you to do it fast. It's going to allow you to translate it into other movements. And that's where the excitement should be coming, not by saying, hey, that's bad. Not this concept of yes or no or this is good, this is bad.

That doesn't exist. It's just movement, period. And if they're doing it, and they're doing it without pain, it's probably not that bad. Could we optimize it? For sure. And that's where you just have to know

a little bit more about the human body, like biomechanics and all these things that no one really cares about. But you're not saying someone would someone pick up 500 pounds off the ground with a rounded back. No, that's obvious. It's obvious to you. Exactly.

He is recommending something I don't believe in. Bring the haters. I'm down with them. I love them actually. I've got to learn to love them. I hate their guts. Don't worry. They're just a little scared. You hate learn to love them. He's still working on it. I hate their guts. Don't worry. They're just, they're just a little scared.

You hate me? Fuck you. So I feel like I've heard you say this before where you try to get people during your progressions to get like 80% the way there

and then kick them up to the next notch. And then 80% they wear it the way there and then kick them up to the next notch. That way when they go back and start over

at the beginning of the progression again, now they can get 100% there without getting discouraged that they're never going to get to that next level exactly so it's i call it the 60 rule if you're 60 there move on 60 there move on but then every time you come in you need to start from the beginning so every time you go you should start from the beginning of that progression it doesn't matter how advanced you are warm up with the basics that's what i'm talking about it's like if you're an olympic weightlifter and you snatch 100 kilos,

you're not going to come in the next day and just snatch 100 kilos. You go warm up, grab the barbell, do some movements, and then you build up to your 100 kilo, whatever it is, the purpose of the day. So maybe do some ring rows before you climb a rope. Something like that. Something basic. The strongest guys in the world, what do they start with? A bunch of reps With an empty barbell

The guy who squats A thousand pounds does that Right I have to explain that a lot You know People were like They walk in the gym Put the bar in

Start throwing 45s on What are you doing? Right Chris over here Who has squatted Like a thousand pounds This dude warms up With the barbell

Well I warm up With a lot of emotional instability And the crying I go why do I do this still? I go well I guess I feel in the mood now And I play some love music with the barbell. Well, I warm up with a lot of emotional instability. Why do I do this still? Well, I guess I feel in the mood now. And I play some love music. Life's worth living.

And then I warm up. Exactly. I feel the same way. What are some progressions you'd like to see in CrossFit in regard to maybe more advanced gymnastic stuff and maybe what you'd like to see in the sport? You know, I think it's naturally evolving. I talk about this all the time. There are three types of progression. There's a natural progression just happens over time. So,

for example, if I ask you to do a pull-up from hanging with your arms straight to getting your chin over the bar, and then I say, okay, we're going to do 100 repetitions, and I need you to finish within the next 10 minutes, your body's going to naturally adapt into this kipping motion. That's why kipping kind of is okay, right? It's just a natural adaptation. And it's a natural progression. Then as a coach, I can go back and look at this natural progression and be like, oh, I see the steps and the movements that you did to accomplish that. So I can now teach that.

So I have the natural progression and then I have the formal progression. And that's just formalizing what happened naturally to the body, that natural adaptation. And then is the creative adaptation. And that creative progression or creative adaptation comes with you saying, hey, you know what, we're going to change the equipment. Or I would like to see you go with your hands wide. Or I would like to see your hands a little closer together. Or maybe let's go one arm.

Maybe let's flip the hand around. Maybe let's bend the legs here or keep the legs straight here. Whatever it is you want. But then that creative progression, what that does is that's the game changer. But it's funny because that creative progression is usually part of a natural progression. And that's the concept of freestyle. It's like just go and do it. Jump in.

Let the body take over. And then the body takes over and it turns into this signature movement. And that signature movement is the one that we gravitate towards because like, hey, that's what we want to optimize because that was the fastest for you today. Yeah.

And that's what I'm all about. There's some guy hogging a camera from us in our background. I know, he's always there. He's very sexy too. Look at it. Oh, gosh. Looking supple.

He's very supple, actually. He's very sexy, too. Look at it. Oh, gosh. Looking supple. He's very supple, actually. It's crazy. But take, for example, the muscle-up. Getting over an obstacle. Just the rings. And the way the muscle-up is done in CrossFit for time or whatever, the efficient muscle-up that we see in CrossFit is not done in any other sport the way it's done in CrossFit.

It doesn't exist. So it's a signature movement of crossfit if you watch the muscle up and done by a gymnast it doesn't look anything no they're not doing it for speed specifically they're doing it so they can get into their routine call any gymnast yeah call any gymnast and ask them to do it the way you know someone like camille or rich froning does it uh they will not be them to do it the way someone like Camille or Rich Froning does it, they will not be able to do it that way because they have not trained it that way. It's a natural adaptation of CrossFit exposure, and it's a signature movement that now we teach.

Same thing with butterfly pull-ups. You see butterfly pull-ups from the outside, and you're just like, that is the dumbest thing I ever saw. That's what everybody in the country says. They don't understand what you're saying. I got a question specifically about the butterfly. Because I would say the butterfly pull-up, I used to think that the snatch was the toughest thing to teach somebody. But now

I completely disagree. I think it might be the butterfly. For me anyways, to teach. And do you have like a good progression for that? I just posted a progression last month with like four steps on it. So yeah, it's perfect timing. It's actually not that hard. And I think that's where studying movement is important. I talk about this high level framework of movement is just general. Purpose of why you're doing that movement is what makes it specific. And then there are positions

that you study within that movement. And those positions, usually the transition position is the position where we see the athlete breaking down or that defines the movement. An example of that would be squatting versus deadlifting. Squatting, hip crease below the knee, just to say something. Deadlifting, hip creases above the knee. But you're still bending in the hip, you're still bending in the knee, you're still bending in the ankle.

Same movement patterns, just different ranges of motion. But it happens in the transition that you in the knee. You're still bending in the ankle. Same movement patterns, just different ranges of motion. But it happens in the transition that you see the difference. So in order to teach a butterfly pull-up, for example, you have to start from the transition. And the transition, well, it happens at the top. So you start from the top and you build your way out. I have seen that. I won't call it a trick, but, you know, that progression where you start at the top and then kind of let yourself down from there.

Is that your favorite way to go? That's one of my favorite ways to go. And you can do that with your feet on the ground just to get the movement. Or you can do it from the top. And when you do it from the top without your feet touching, that's when you realize you're stiff as hell. And you have to go talk to Kelly. There you go. Is that the same as Gray Cook's concept of reverse patterning?

Are you familiar with that? Yes, yes. That's exactly what we're talking about. And that's kind of the concept of, hey, we are born to push. If your car breaks down, you don't pull your car to the gas station. You push it. And most of the movements we see, even Olympic weightlifting, is a pushing movement where pulling is just for positioning. So by reversing the movement, now you're working on exaggerating pulling. And that's why, you know, old school strength and conditioning was like, oh, yeah, two pulls, one push.

Two pulls, you may have heard that before. Oh, yeah. Something like that. Everyone's like, yeah, I live by that. And it's because in the strength and conditioning world, our job is to exaggerate movement patterns and train where position, and this is what Kelly talks about all the time, Kelly Starrett, he's always talking about position being number one. We train it from a pulling perspective.

We could geek out on that all day, but that's kind of what we're talking about. I also thought it was because most people bench press four times a week, or six times a week, as you said yesterday. There was a time when I did that kind of stupid shit, yes. I think it's one of those things where, like, I remember coaching some wrestlers,

and I was like, never had them bench press. And they're always like, because you're going to do it on your own. Right. It's like, it's a good movement, just I don't have to put it in the program because I know you're going to do it. Right.

Same with curls. Right. Same with stupid crunches. For all the people that already can do muscle-ups very well and they can do butterfly pull-ups very well, and they can do deficit handstand push-ups and what have you, where do they go after that? What are the advanced movements, the next step in the progression

for those guys that are already there, they've arrived in the CrossFit world? Right. Well, muscle-up to handstand is definitely a key one. And it's funny. On Instagram the other day, I posted a video of me doing a handstand pushup on the rings without my feet touching the straps.

And I was shaking like a leaf. And it was actually, it sounds fancy, but if a gymnast were to see it, it would be like, this guy's an idiot that can barely do anything. But the CrossFit community

was like, oh my God, dude, that's amazing. And it was viewed, I think, 200,000 times. And I was like, how is that possible? So it's all about perspective right but let's say that would be a next goal hey can you do a handstand push-up without your feet touching the trap the straps can you do a muscle-up hand stand and then hold without touching the straps are you able to do that strict can you do strict

muscle-up press to handstand and now it's kind of playing with that concept of, oh what are strength movements in body weight terms, and what are dynamic movements in body weight terms, and then how do we implement stuff like conjugate programming into that, where now we're just addressing it through body weight. And then we can say, hey let's challenge it even further, let's go for long periods of time, or let's load it up.

So to put the gymnastics skills in perspective, like in gymnastics, everything has a rating, right? Like a letter rating. Exactly. Muscle-ups almost like a basic skill doesn't even have a rating. Is that correct? Yes. Level difficulty, there's like A, B, C, D, E, super E, F.

Isn't the Iron Cross like a B skill? It's a B skill. And there's like E's and F's? Yes. Like what would be, what's a crazy E type skill? Actually, someone posted yesterday a video on my facebook page of this guy doing it's an Egyptian guy I don't follow it's almost like a front lever which is if you've ever seen it's hanging under the rings with your body pretty much projecting out in front of you.

Just holding yourself flat to the ground. But this one, his hands are actually by his hips, which is the reverse movement of a Maltese. It just sounds crazy. Is it a Victorian cross or is that different? That's a different thing. I can't keep up with any of it. I can't keep up with it either. At that point, it's like Formula One racing. It's like like no way i can conceptualize what you're doing right now but that's the whole point no way i can conceptualize

what you're doing no one gives a crap about that right it's awesome to watch but if i show that to my mom she'll be like great and then she'll forget about it five minutes later. How could she even relate to that? She can't. It's impossible. But what if I told you that that movement comes from a ring row? And that's a basic way of you getting yourself off the ground if you fall and there's something you can grab and you pull yourself up. Now it's something that's interesting to someone like my mom. And then what if I talk to someone like Annie Thorisotter, who's won the games twice and I've worked with her, and she's always trying to challenge me,

and I'm trying to find ways of challenging her. I can say, you know what, you think you're very me and I'm trying to find ways of challenging her I can say you know what you think you're very good at pulling let's challenge you in this motion of pulling and you'll see where you're breaking and let's take whatever broke there and apply it to your pull up and now we'll make you even more solid and I think that's being able to see movement as a continuum because the truth is no one cares about very specific sport stuff that seems intangible and impossible for people to achieve. You're an assistant coach to Annie Thor's daughter.

What exactly is your role? Moral support, wipe up the tears, massage the feet. Supplemental sexiness added to the room. No, what I do is, Yami Tikkanen is her head coach. They've been together now for four years, I believe. And I was called in three years ago just to help a little bit with handstand push-ups

and some basics, and we started working, and I started realizing that this girl naturally adapts into the most efficient movement patterns I've ever seen. Might be why she could win the games. She's gonna win it again. Good job, that's a great insight. Yeah.

But this girl needs training the same way all these other girls need training. But we're gonna take advantage of this natural ability that she has to create these very efficient movement patterns. And from there, create signatures that she can apply to the CrossFit Games and kill it. So my job is to say, hey, I like what you're training. I just want you to look at it a little bigger. I like what you're training. I like to look at it a little bigger. I like how you're programming. This is how we

address strength. This is how we address dynamic movement for speed and application of this movement. And I think that's where I come in as an assistant. I'm just helping guide. Very cool. In regard to getting better at gymnastics and adding, so when you think about adding strength with a barbell,

you think about adding weight. When you're thinking about gymnastics, a lot of times people think about adding reps. Right. What's your perspective on that? Well, strength, this is kind of like the discussion about what is intensity. And who knows, right? But with a barbell, it's very,

it's very simple. It's like you add another pound, another kilo, you know, you got better. Right. And gymnastics, once you hit 20 reps, who wants to go more than 20 reps? That's boring. Not me. I don't want to go longer than 10 seconds on anything. Me neither. Me neither. I think it's boring. So it's about saying, okay, let's, let's set a standard that forces you to have to work harder to achieve the movement. And that can be simply changing how you're grabbing the bar. Or it can be, say, something like, I think they do that at the CrossFit Gymnastics certification. I haven't been there yet, but I think they do a lot of very slow movement patterns, like it's Cirque du Soleil trying to showcase strength.

And what they're doing is showing that every millimeter of the movement has control and this is something that's very artistic gymnastics driven so that's another way of showcasing strength but then if you can't take that slow movement and add speed to it because that's life right yeah you're not that strong and the truth is uh there are a lot of gymnasts that are very high level that I personally know that you think are very strong, but then you put them in other scenarios and you're like, oh, you're like a little leaf, like just me.

Well, that's what makes really good weightlifters, really good weightlifters, because when you have 500 pounds across your chest and you dip and drive really fast, you don't get pushed around by the weight. You push back into the weight. It's the same thing. At high speeds, I'm still forceful and in position. That's why Ilya jerks 550 pounds

every set or whatever it is. You're saying once you get to about 20 reps, then you make the progression more difficult. Yeah. I don't know if it's 20 or 5. Everyone's talking about prerequisite strength and you should be able to do 5 before you do kipping. That's bullshit. That doesn't exist. Arbitrary. Because I know a lot of people that do a lot prerequisite strength and you should be able to do five before you do kipping that's that

doesn't exist arbitrary because i know a lot of people that do a lot of kipping pull-ups can't do one pull-up strict and are still fine is that a good thing can i make them better by increasing their strength for sure and i that's something i discuss all the time but it's this preconceived notion once again that you need to be number strong in order to be movement strong. It's not the same thing. Silence. Wow, man. That's a new perspective.

That's a different perspective than what you're hearing from most coaches. I think everybody in the audience also went, whoa. Whoa. Well, you know, it pisses me off, to be honest with you, because when I was a gymnast, they told me this is how you should be doing it. And I didn honest with you Because when I was a gymnast They told me

This is how you should be doing it And I didn't make it Maybe I wasn't that talented Who knows But I felt like the system Was broken

You're so punk rock dude I know You're so fucking punk rock I know Man Get your leather jacket man I know But it's

It's true And I was You know I've been I've been Watching some advanced gymnasts lately, and I hear the coaches telling them, hey, change this, change this.

And they're like, coach, I'm trying. And the truth is, it comes from they can't even run. There's something about your run that's not allowing you to do this thing. There's something about your handstand that's not allowing you to do something. There's something about your push-up that's not allowing you to do that element of strength. And they're missing the whole point. But it's not because they to do something. There's something about your pushup that's not allowing you to do that element of strength. And they're missing the whole point. But it's not because they don't know, it's because they're so far and deep into the game

that they miss the foundation. I think that's what we need to come back to. What does strong really mean and how do you define that? Boom. So for an advanced athlete that has some, you can see there's some type of movement issue or there's some type of weakness and they break down on said movement

more than other movements. How do you dig in and find out what the real problem is, like the weakest link in the chain? Well, it's like anything, if you're a scientist who's always testing different things and you make all these errors and mistakes, and it comes down to just experimenting, trial and error. But after testing with a lot of people, which I've done,

and I know a lot of strength and conditioning have done as well, you discover that there are certain universal truths. You're like, oh, yeah, the spine has to be stable. In order for the spine to be stable, I need to have my pelvis neutral. I don't even know what pelvis neutral is because I can't really see it because I don't have x-ray vision, but I know you have to squeeze your butt. If you squeeze your butt, now you're going to have a more neutral pelvis, which means a little bit of a hip

extension. Once you have hip extension, now we can stack up the spine. It's really boring. What? Were you talking? But that's what I'm talking about. It's like you don't care. Tinker. And here's one of the things I say.

I say, look look it's simple if it looks good it's probably good right simple it's as sexy you want it to be sexy the second thing is you want to be mechanically sound I don't know what that really means all the time but can you do it pain-free discomfort it's good pain bad and then does it match a rule of a game or a standard of a sport? And those are things that we can play with a lot. It's like CrossFit. It says go from under the bar to over the bar when you do your pull-up.

Now do it as fast as you can. It eventually turns into butterfly pull-up. If that butterfly pull-up looks shitty, it's probably shitty. Now let's fix it. Let's try to make it look good. It's intuition. Excellent. I think it's about time to wrap it up because we've to make it look good. It's intuition. Excellent.

I think it's about time to wrap it up because we got to kill it next. We got to do part two and three now. CTP was giving me the signal earlier. We got to go. Thank you for having me, guys. This has been awesome. You bet. Thank you.

One more time, what was the name of the book you're coming out with soon and where can we find more information? The book is called Freestyle, Maximize Sport and Life Performance for Basic Movements and the website is freestylethebook.com.

You can subscribe there. In the next two months, we'll be posting some videos. And then there'll be some intro and chapters coming. Excellent. And make sure to go ahead. I was going to say, do you have anyone you want to thank or any sponsors or anything like that? Well, definitely Nutraforce Sport helping me out all the time. Reebok has been supporting me all this time as well.

They've been awesome. And, yeah, my co-author, Tony Scherbondi, is amazing. out all the time. Reebok has been supporting me all this time as well. They've been awesome. And yeah, my co-author Tony Scherbondi is amazing. My business partner Wyatt Wong and the girl that makes it happen is my future

wife, Tanya White. Very cool. There you go. All right, guys. Make sure to hit up barbellstrug.com, sign up for the newsletter so we can send you

updates that we will not mention here. Thanks, Carl. Thank you. Awesome, guys. Thank you very much. That was really good. Was that good? Yeah, Carl. Thank you. Awesome, guys. Thank you very much. That was really good. Was that good?

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you.