Barbell Shrugged - 97- Lessons Learned From Barbell Training w/ Former World Champion Powerlifter Travis Mash from Weightlifting Talk

Episode Date: January 1, 2014

This week on Barbell Shrugged, we interview Travis Mash, powerlifting world champion and former weightlifter. Hey, this is Rich Froning. You're listening to Barbell Shrugged. For the video version, go to barbellshrugged.com. All right, welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bletzer here with my co-hosts, Doug Larson and Christopher Moore. Hi, everybody. CTP behind the camera with our guest, Travis Mash. Glad to be here. World champion powerlifter, owner of Mash Elite Performance. Where we are right now.

Runs Mash, Mafia, weightlifting, and powerlifting. Good job. Boom, boom, boom. You recited that three or four times. I was hoping it would come out okay. Well, I recited it three or four times in my head. I recited it out loud once. Hey, in all fairness to you, I really think you're-

I'm almost a professional. I really think you're getting better at this. I think you're really getting good now. He is getting better at it. If he does the next part- Are you ready? I'm ready. Oh, yeah.

All right, make sure to go over to barbellshrug.com, sign up for the newsletter, and you'll learn the eight snatch mistakes that you're probably making that are keeping you from hitting giant PRs. Did that work well? That's all right. See, he's doing better. Awesome.

Practice. Well done, Michael. All right, Travis, we're here because you're awesome, pretty much. One of the strongest guys of all time. Not to oversell you, man. Please don't let our listeners down. I don't take myself that seriously.

It's cool. I mean, thanks. So in what, 04 and 05, you were world champion powerlifter? Yes, I was. You went to school, and we just learned that you were a student of Dr. Stone. I was. Which we referenced in the show every once in a while. Dr. Michael Stone, currently at Eastern Tennessee.

Yeah. Eastern Tennessee State? Eastern Tennessee State. East Tennessee State. Him and his wife, Meg. Meg. Meg, who is the baddest chick to ever live. Probably.

Dude, wasn't she capable of power cleaning like 315 and shit when her pride? Oh, yeah. I'm not joking. The audience may think we're joking about that.

That was the real thing. That's for real. She was a world-class thrower. She was a thrower, not a weightlifter. No. She could have been a great you know weightlifter too best conversation i ever had with meg was that we were driving in dr stone's little um like his jeep right going back to his house i was trying to go to school there for a while she's talking about how you know useful things do like he's like at the end of your workout

that thick scottish action she's like yeah let's do a couple of light like deadlift sets like you know maybe i would do like 300, a couple sets of five or something, stuff like deadlifts. That's why he's doing deadlifts. I was like, what are you talking about? You can do that shit now. Yeah.

You know, I realized how awesome Dr. Stone was when I first went to Colorado Springs to the OTC and they referenced him there all the time. And I'm like, boom, App State, baby.

But of course, now he's not there anymore, so we're not so cool anymore. He went from there to University of Edinburgh, was it? I think, to start Exercise Science. He came back to get involved in the U.S. scene. I think that's when he went to Eastern Tennessee. For the audience, if you want to study

the science of getting strong as shit, Dr. Stone's your man. I totally agree. I'll plug him right now. Yes, he's the man. It's hard to read any textbook or research article without seeing something he's done in the references somewhere. Absolutely. Just PubMed, Stone, Garhammer. Right.

Get to reading. For real. So not only were you a powerlifter. Right. You were a weightlifter first, which is unusual. I mean, I've seen some powerlifters go to weightlifting a little bit, but to see it go the other way around, why'd you do that? Well, actually, I dabbled in powerlifting. I played college football at App State first.

Okay. Then I went into a little bit of powerlifting, where I actually ended up going to the Junior Nationals, and I won right away out of the gate. And then back then, there was not like a thousand federations. There was like maybe three. Here comes someone trying to make a smoothie. Sorry, too bad. Is it really? there was like maybe three here comes someone trying to make a smoothie before the show chose like what the hell that's actually one of my coaches so it's cool okay yes it's so um but so I started in powerlifting and it was a very different

scene then it was a different it wasn't you know equipment weak equipment supersuits basically looked like the old school version, like CrossFit leotards. Right. Glorified spandex you put on yourself and do your squats. Right. And so then I did that, and I went to the Junior Worlds and got a silver medal. Nice. But then, really, my strength coach, Mike Kent, I don't know if you ever heard of him.

Yeah. Yeah. So he was awesome. And he told me, you know, I mean, I'm a 5'7 wide guy. He's like, you're not going to go to the NFL, which I already knew. Let me be clear. I was not that great a football player. But I have a dream. I believe in myself.

That's good, son. That's real good. Stop believing. Get real in your dreams. Yeah. So he told me to go to Colorado Springs, you know, and maybe try weightlifting. So after I went to the Junior Worlds and, you know, and maybe try weightlifting. So, um, after I went to the junior worlds and did really well, I just really packed up my car. I had $200 in my pocket, literally, and drove to Colorado Springs where I'd heard about Wes Barnett, the two, uh,

was the two time Olympian. Fuck was Wes strong, man. Oh my gosh, dude. The best thing ever do ever in my career. My highlight that you were asking about was being with Wes Barnett. Oh, wow. So I drove there, 200 bucks. My mom was like, good luck. I'll see you in a month. There's no way you're going to survive it. You had a whole lot of encouragement.

You had a whole lot of heroes. I know. It's for real. So I drove to Colorado Springs. It's probably good you got out of town. Yeah. And then went straight, before I unpacked my car, I went straight to the gym where he was training. It was World Gym in 8th Street, off of 8th Street in Colorado Springs.

Went there and met him. He happened to be there. So before I went to my apartment or anything and saw him, I was like, look, man, I just drove thousands of miles. You've got to train me. You know, I had to look like crazy. I drove 23 hours straight. So I was like, I bet my hair was all wild out. Young, got to train me. You know, I had to look like crazy. I drove 23 hours straight. So I was like, I bet my hair was all wild out.

Young, dumb, and passionate. You had to talk to this guy on the phone before you showed up? You just drove 24 hours for no reason? I just drove there.

That's what it takes, man. That's balls. That's what it takes. I just drove there and then he was like, calm down, son. I'll train you. Too easy, man.

Yeah, and then I met the owner of the gym and he's like, do you need a job I'm like yes and so the universe rewarded you kindly for the risk

the pieces just fell in place within 30 minutes I had my coach I had a job and I was off and running what was the most impressive lift you ever saw I just want to say this real quick

if you show up in my gym and don't call first and looking for a job you're not getting one I will I will shit on your dream. It's not happening. I will shit all over your dream.

You should probably just keep driving to the next town. Just so the audience has some context, what's the most impressive thing you ever saw Wes do? But with a barbell. Well, you know. Or one of them, you know. He was phenomenal with like snatch grip push presses. I mean, if I'm not mistaken, he gets snatch grip push press

220 kilos or more. He battled Mark Henry. You guys know who that is? Yeah, Mark was, everybody thinks Mark next to Shane is like the strongest American to live. Yes, yes. He's legit. I mean, Mark was the strongest guy I've ever, like Stone said, I think one time, he looked at his wrist and he realized he was just not like you.

Right. His joint structure and everything. He said that about Shane, too. Shane, hips and knees weren't human hips and knees. It's totally true. But he beat Mark Henry. You know, Wes beat Mark Henry at that movement. And he was like a, was he like a 105? 108 back then.

Yeah, 108. Okay. So he wasn't a very huge guy. No. Like Mark was like 380 pounds or 350 pounds or something. Maybe 400. Yeah. And I think Wes had ridiculous squat strength, too.

Everything was just freaky. Oh, he's a freakish athlete. You know, whereas Mark and Shane, well, Shane's a great athlete, too, but Mark Henry was just big and strong. Wes was super athletic. You know, he was all-state in Missouri and actually got Mr. Basketball in the state of Missouri. So he had college scholarships for basketball.

And so he's like, no, I want to weightlift. Wow. Did he take a draft? I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah. I've never heard anyone say that. I don't think he ever medaled in the Olympics. He took sixth.

Yeah, that's really good. He was in the heat of it. It's still a really heavy drug culture and international competition. He he was in the heat of it like it's still really heavy drug culture and international competition he's right in the mix dude you know a lot of people used to say even the europeans would say he has to be taking you know like i don't believe you yeah they're like they didn't think it was possible that a man could at 108 could clean jerk 220 um but he i mean he did it but i know he wasn't like you know became close friends with him, and we actually talked about it. Because, you know, I mean, let's be serious.

I came from the powerlifting world, and so that was a big thing, drugs. I was used to a lot of the... It's just common. It would be weird if you didn't do it. It's ubiquitous and ever-present. But with Wes, I was like, have you ever even considered? And he's like, you know, I'm not going to lie. I've thought about it.

Because obviously he would have meddled, if not gold meddled. And he's like, but all these young kids that look up to me, he's like, if I take that, I won't be able to look them in the eye. And say work hard. Right. Well, not that those guys aren't working really hard. But you're dealing with kids to be doing that and know it and then tell them something else.

You can live with it good for you, but would never do that right me too I know I know Kendrick must share that same frustration now because Kendrick's another guy's like I tell him I told him at the party we were at that couple months ago like you you're fucking strong man he's frustrated to know that if you were on the same playing field wink wink with these dudes you just fucking beat all their asses yeah you know it it's probably true. He would just crush them, probably. I mean, he would definitely. He's super athletic, man. I don't know about crush them, but he.

Well, he'd be right in the mix. I'm getting a little excited. I like Kendrick so much, and I believe in him. Right, me too. But he would be right in the mix, man. Yes. He would definitely 100% metal. Seeing him squat and lift, I'm like, yeah, you would be there.

Yes. That sucks, because he's giving it all he's got. You know, it's not the fairest thing in the world, but it is what it is. I'm happy that we have guys who are getting there anyway, despite that huge got. You know, it's not, it's the fairest thing in the world, but it is what it is. I'm happy that we have guys who are getting there anyway, despite that huge disadvantage of getting there anyway. What is his top,

what is his top place in the Olympics? Does anybody know? Eight, I think. Eight, I think, yeah. Yeah, so he's right there in that pocket. So he's moving up to 94 now, so I'm interested. I think if he can get his snatch up,

that'll be a game changer for him. If he had a John North snatch with that cleaning jerk. Exactly. Now you have a battle right there. Strength wise, though, he's not inferior to anybody in the world in his weight class, I don't think. Without a doubt. Yeah, when you put, say, John versus Kendrick just being strong, there's no match.

Kendrick's one of those guys, when you look at Kendrick, you're like, that guy's not built like a normal human being No Genetically different He goes up a weight class Yeah And he's shredded Shredded

Who goes up a weight class And then like As soon as they They hit that Next weight class You can still see their abs Or their sink I know

You know what I love about Kendrick These are making me sad And Jared You know that crew Pancakes Louisiana State You know I mean

Shreveport Yeah They're jacked. They do a lot of strength training. Under Dr. Kyle, man. A Stone student. Yeah. Shout out to Stone, man.

Is this the Stone show or what? It should be. We need to get him on a show eventually. We can easily make that happen. We could probably make that happen. Oh, he's really cool. All right, mark your calendars, folks. I guess we're committing to that kind of.

East Tennessee State, yes. Another road trip. East Tennessee State is an awesome little community. Have you guys been there in Johnson City? Been there a couple times. Went to a competition not too long ago. He's got a whole complex there. Yeah, University Nationals was there this past year.

We had some athletes go. It was a great time. It was a great meet. Yeah, I actually got to interview Kendrick Ferris while we were there. Oh, really? Yeah. For the very first time. It was cool. we were up in the stadium we had like all the weightlifting going on down below us in the background for context next to at that university

episode 55 at that university next to the medical school i think dr stone's department and his resource is the biggest department in that whole school it's unbelievable i mean i'm so jealous for young students who want to learn Whale, who want to learn exercise science, you should go there. Just go. Do what Trav did. Pack your fucking shitty little Buick. Take $200, tell your mom, thanks for shitting on my dreams, and get

out of here. For real. I remember calling my mom. I'm sure your mom was a nice lady. No, she's super nice. But let me think about it. What are the odds of a guy taking 200 bucks and surviving in Colorado Springs, thousands of miles away from North Carolina, where they're from? So, I mean, in her defense, I was just being realistic. On the flip side of that, you were showing what people need to realize,

what I'm only now learning coming up on the age of 33, and you guys all agree now. The fear and the perceived risk on the forefront, if you're feeling that, if you're a young lifter who's like, should I pull a trigger on this? The risk is actually way lower than you think. It really is. Just jump on the other side of the fence. Get out there.

Be smart. Educate yourself, but go for it, man. Nothing wrong is going to happen. Yeah. Just go for it. You just have to leave everything behind. I think that it's actually not that big of a deal. It's really not.

Is that why you're buying an Airstream? Are you pulling a Matt Chan soon? Yeah, yeah. No, but I'm a big fan of like, what's going on here? I have no idea. It sounds like there's a thunderstorm rolling in. It does. It sounds like it all of a sudden got windy.

Whatever. Yeah, whatever. Was that an earthquake? I think we just experienced the first North Carolina earthquake. We had a big earthquake last year. Really? Yeah, we really did. Oh, really? Big-ish. Like, it shook the house. Oh We had a big earthquake last year. Really? Yeah, we really did. Oh, really?

Big-ish. Like, it shook the house. Oh, wow. Yeah. No idea. Yeah, it was crazy. Is there an earthquake going on, or have I had too many fingers of scotch? I can't tell.

Yeah, but I don't think it's that big of it. You know, I think every young person should get out of their hometown. You know, I did it. I went in the Navy. Yeah. And look how you turned out. I turned out just fine A little weird

But good, you pay your bills on time But I think If you just pick up and go It can change your life for the better You don't know who you are until you leave town What do you have to lose really So it doesn't work out and go back home And if you wake up one day and you find yourself like

Wow, I'm feeling really optimistic, like I believe in myself Good for you, first of all And if you wake up one day and you find yourself like, wow, I'm feeling really optimistic. Like I believe in myself. Good for you, first of all. And if you find yourself going, all my friends and family seem to be really shitting on me right now. Like they don't really feel like they want me to succeed at this. You got to be able to say, you know, moving on to greener pastures. I totally agree.

Not leaving your family behind, but you got to surround yourself with people who go out, you know, you can be a great fucking lifter. You can be a great businessman. You can be a great anything. Come hang out with us. Most 18 year olds don't have somebody depending on them. And that's the perfect time to, you know, you can be a great fucking lifter. You can be a great businessman. You can be a great anything. Come hang out with us. Most 18 year olds don't have somebody depending on them. And that's the perfect time to, you know, take your chance. Go find the people who you want to be like.

At that one time, just go to them and learn from them. Immerse yourself in them. How long were you in Colorado Springs? About three years the first time. You know, I spent about a year and a half under West. And then I was invited to Olympicit Training Center by Dragon Mayor. And then my father got lung cancer, and so I moved home. Yeah, and so it was terminal, and so I wanted to be with him.

And so, you know, that's the only could've, should've in my life. I can honestly say I will die with no could'ves or should'ves but that one. But really, it's a could've or should've that I'm okay with. Because, you know, my dad and I spent those last few months of his life communicating for the first time openly does that make sense yeah yeah like there was no bullcrap between us it was just here's the way i feel it was the way he felt you know my my mother was married three times and so you know i think there was a lot of you know i had certain stepdads come into my life that were you know had lots of money and they're very influential.

And my dad was just a blue collar, hardworking dude. So I think there was times where I might have been intrigued by these new guys more. Right. And it might have hurt my dad's feelings. But then I just wanted to tell him, the hardest thing, guys, it took me months to say, look, dad, I love you. You were the best dad in the world. And none of these dudes mattered at all man

you're actually hitting home pretty close because my dad passed away on Thanksgiving and I didn't really get that it's weird that once you're for all those people listening

if you got your parents who are if you kind of know there's not much time you got to have that moment with them because I didn't get that I mean my dad was

like you're a hard working dude so he actually lived what most people if you call yourself a Christian he's actually doing it he's stripped down bare if you call yourself a christian he's actually doing it he's stripped down bare bones he's living my tattoo he's living like a like a like a zen hobbit right uh but i always hold on zen hermit hermit okay yeah somebody's gonna make that a hashtag sorry whatever you know what i'm saying like he's always been the role of dad. I gotta do my best for my kids.

So he never opened up the emotion and his fears and what he was missing and wanting. And I only saw that after he was gone, unfortunately. So I got to go through the pages of my mom. Then goes, well, he always hopes, fears, and wishes, and dreams and stuff. And I go, fuck. You want that conversation. So if you got that, it was worth that, dude. It was. That's priceless. The Olympics, I mean, obviously a lot of people that are doing weightlifting you know that seems like the

pinnacle of your life would be the olympics but getting to say that your dad to me was the pinnacle you know being able to say you did your job and so he could go out thinking smiling you know cool i am smiling about he was a great dad i look back i used to think and here's something for your listeners to think about. My dad was real chill. He would go work his job, come home, cut wood, do whatever around the house, but lived a super chill life, you know?

And never had any worries, no stress. And I used to think, you know, I used to think, why aren't you more aggressive? Like my mother is very aggressive. Owns her own business, you know. Is that why they worked? They bounced. They didn't work. See, that's the thing. Is that why they worked? They bounced. No, it didn't work.

See, that's the thing. Oh, shit. Dude, how bad is my memory? You just said that all five minutes ago. I had to break up the intense moment with a weird off-put. Yeah, my mom needed, you know, she's very A-type, and the dudes that she was, you know, found more appealing were, you know, like big-time entrepreneurs.

And so my dad was nothing like that. So the poor guy never had a shot with my we're you know like big time entrepreneurs and so my dad was nothing like that so the poor guy never had a shot with my mother you know and so but i look back and i think you know who had it right and who had it it's called silent bro sorry bro you got in trouble you got in trouble so even when you know and i'm very a type obviously so even in this life of a type go go go there should be times we all should find for defragging, as you said, Mike.

Yeah. Not unfragging. Not on this show. Previous conversation. Travis and I met a couple weeks ago at the American Open. We had some really nice, deep conversations at the party

that night. Talked about defragging. Kind of taking time to yourself to get all the stuff in your life behind you so that you can move forward. Right. Yeah. So we used to have a lot of meetings here where people shoot out a thousand ideas, and that was the most unproductive thing ever. Because we never would stop to say, all right, let's pick these and attack them.

We never defragged. But now we've kind of like roped that in and so now we pick something we target it and conquer it and then move forward they say less is more who is they do say that is they speaking of speaking of less is more so in all your years of experience like what were like like the one or two key things that like really led to your success were for the all people that are brand new to training that really need to focus on just a few things like what suggestions would you give those people oh it would be easy it would be like finding the right group to train with you know no matter what whether it's weightlifting and powerlifting

like uh finding the right group and like you know not being afraid to go train with people that are going to beat you but you know what i did is i targeted those people like in north carolina when i came back to powerlifting i would target people like there was a guy named grant bits it was this super oh you know talking about huge like huge 25 inch not real arms like beast yeah so i would literally go train with him he was a jerk too and like but i was looking like you know i was a rookie at that time because i moved back to you know to north carolina so there was not a lot of weightlifting and there was no there wasn't crossfit and so you didn't have all these opportunities you guys who go to crossfit consider yourself lucky because you know we didn't have those opportunities so i started powerlifting any gym you can squat bench and deadlift so i would seek this guy i you know grant pitts out

he was such a jerk but I was like you know what I'm gonna put up with his mouth until I can beat him and so there came a time where I could beat him and then I was done with his mouth

you know yeah who was his coach he trained under that guy they used to have articles in Powerlifting USA all the time

oh yeah Tamara Grimwood her husband yeah she died I think she killed herself but oh shit

they were crazy the whole crew was crazy. Yeah. I had to put up with that dude. The cocktails weren't helping the situation, probably. No. Because Grant was... You don't look at a guy like Grant Pitts and go, Google it, folks.

You don't look at that guy and go, man, he takes all his fish oil, doesn't he? That doesn't come to your mind, man. No, dude. So for the sake of... Let me make 2.1. What were your best lifts? I don't think we mentioned that in powerlifting. No, dude. So for the sake of, let me make 2.1. What were your best lifts? I don't think we mentioned that in powerlifting.

Well, in powerlifting, I had an in-competition 970 squat, 704 bench, and an 804 deadlift. For some reason, I don't think I had a 220, right? 220. 220. I don't think your bench was that high. Do you know anyone that's 220 pounds and lifts that much weight? Ed Cohen. No.

I mean, I'm talking about people at home and their home gym. Your buddy. Your buddy doesn't do that. Your buddy doesn't do that shit. I want to make that point because here's why you should also take this advice really close to heart because it's a good lift to tell on you. My second point was, do you think to that point about getting to where the good lifters are, wouldn't you agree? I'm kind of begging the question a bit, but do you think that was way more important than any specific program? The belief is really where it's at

don't people overvalue programming yes you know my programming was simply go heavy all the time that's all I did you know I would say

I was west side but at the end of the day I never did a true dynamic workout it was always you know I would do the speed bench with the bands

and I'd always be like put more weight on put more weight until I was maxing out with bands aren't I a power lifter aren't I a power lifter who's lifting heavy or but yeah yeah but I say it's not necessarily sustainable but if you want that you want to go beyond yourself and reach new heights you got to be where those people are that's all and despite osmosis you rise to a level

right you can't keep it up for long maybe but you can that's how you get there a big piece of what I did too is I would write over 100 different goals that I planned on breaking during the training cycle. And I was OCD. Way to prioritize. So much for less is more. I don't do this. I'm not good.

But let me give you an example. Like, you know, max off a three board, max off a two board, you know, like the chain squat. All kinds of special exercises. I i believe in that with with louis and then so i realized if i would break 70 of those i would be unbeatable you know and it was true that i mean so that little i don't know if anyone else has ever done that but like i really if i broke most of those goals at that point in my life there was no way no one could beat me you're trying to break one of those once a week how did that work all the time so that's why dynamic you know dynamic days never ended up dynamic because

you're always trying to break a record on your dynamic days it kept that way for me too man i got to where i would do like a heavy squat or whatever on day one and i realized that you get good results just by squatting heavier more often it's so funny man i slowly took off all the bands you know i only use bands occasionally because i think really the only benefit to them is that they make things fun. It's a fun change if you're tired of squatting. You pick up a textbook and you've got, I mean, I overthink program design myself all the time.

I mean, I think that's a thing. And when we talk to the best athletes in the world, they may be doing dynamic days, but they're not overthinking the dynamic day. Everything with a barbell is dynamic. It's interesting. I feel like people swing back and forth between programming doesn't really matter when they're first starting to it matters a lot.

It's the only thing. Back to it doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, yeah. That's my experience with every good lifter. It's a pendulum. Every lifter. Pendulum. Right.

The pendulum is swinging. Always swinging. Right. Getting programming is what you need to do. You just need to work hard and just. Maybe it's the same when everybody's life appeared across the board. There's this acceleration and you think, I need more and more and more and more.

And you get some of this stuff and you realize, well, fuck. I need less, less, less, less. I either go on with this or I go backwards. And you go backwards, you realize, okay, back to the starting point. That's where I wanted to be. And I was smiling. The philosopher over I go backwards. And you go backwards, you realize, okay, back to the starting point. That's where I wanted to be. And I was smiling.

The philosopher over here. Yeah. For sure. I totally agree with that. When we just started just getting bare bones, just lifting heavy, I mean, that's what worked. So what would a typical day in the gym look like for you? Power lifting or weight lifting? Let's do both.

Power lifting first. Power lifting would be you know typical day like a squat day would be you know I would do used bands but at the end of it it would end up

maxing out either with bands or I'd take the bands off so I would do the speed stuff. Were you box squatting? No. No I did box squatting

one or like a couple times and it ended up my entire career the only thing that ever hurt my back was box squats oh really

so I mean it wasn't for you it wasn't for me I'm not yeah obviously I'm a Louie Simmons fan so I'm not knocking Louie's box squats

as we are too yeah were you trying to get a lot of variety like different band tension every day different bars different width stands

yeah but the closer the meet came the more specific I would be like then it would be a squat bar did you learn that in school no I learned like basics and that I mean anatomy kinesiology is about all I really apply sure but you know otherwise I learned from traveling to meetings like you guys do like traveling

to Louis the best educational model man I don't learn shit about lifting in school no you can lifting part of it. Because you can't. I mean, what's a 200-pound washed-up guy? All he does is talk about training. He hasn't really trained. I'm being a little aggressive. I'm sorry.

But in the classroom, man, there was never really anything that I could take out and really. The exception would be when I went to school with guys like Brian Schilling and Dr. Lauren Shue. Yeah. These guys were training for weightlifting at full speed and researching all this shit. Yeah, that's perfect right there. Yeah, that's a good Dr. Lauren Shue. These guys were training for weightlifting full speed and researching all the shit. That's perfect right there. That's a good combination. That's rare. Most of the time, it's the guy who's like, don't lift so much. Also, what's really important is endurance training.

None of that learning happened in class, though. It was training doing actual weightlifting with Schilling that really slingshotted us forward. I learned about weightlifting at school, just not in a classroom. After school is over. When the classes were over, we all met up and trained with Schilling. We were doing things like that really slingshotted us forward. Yeah, I learned about weightlifting at school, just not in a classroom. After school is over at school. Yeah, when the classes were over,

we all met up and trained with showing. Yeah, we were doing things, like we'd all train like at three, four, five, whatever it was, work in a lab all morning, take a break, train, work in a lab all evening. But like we're in there,

like you do a lift, stop, talk research, talk science, talk real application of some study you're thinking and go, yeah, maybe that works. And you go back to lifting hard. Like it was really integrated in everything you were doing right all right so we didn't we didn't actually get a day in the yeah we gotta get back off track like you know a squat day and then we you know i i would end up with um reverse hypers glute hands i did a lot of posterior chain work i still do my, my weightlifters do, we have several glute hams in there. And so,

but, and then, I would do a lot of single leg work too, just to, you know, I didn't want to get any imbalances, so I would do, you know, lunges or like, you know, rear leg elevated, you know, squats. Took me years to find the value

in single leg work. It's boring, man. It's only after repeated injuries that it's like, oh. Yeah, it's a break from the barbell. That's a good idea. Let's try not to get hurt, so. a break from the Little bit today would be like on a dynamic day. It was start with bands You know, you know speed like a minute between sets working up heavy, you know on a max ever day

It would be like a lot to use a lot of boards on bench I will say that but I always ended up with a rep to my chest heavy Mm-hmm So I never just did a two board or a three board it always ended up being a full rep you feel like that save your shoulders over time yeah you know using the boards I don't know no no I think I think you know no I think full range of motion is actually better for you I think what really ended up hurting my shoulders was doing it crazy bands you know that was the one thing in my career I wish I would have chilled out on.

You did a lot of crazy bands? Oh, man. I would have. This is a true story. You're going to start selling them like that. Crazy bands. Green bands. I would double a green band and do a real green band.

Not a medium. Yeah, an average band. Yeah. You would double that over the bench. I would double it and then do benches with that. And it was insane. The most I ever did. How much tension is that?

Like with no weight on the bar? It's too much. I used to squat that the bar i used to be a couple hundred pounds i would do my board presses with um maybe like 200 to 300 pounds in the bar and i would use a light band doubled right and that was like that was like an extra 250 pounds of band tension yeah and it's really extreme because you take that thing off now you're taking the exercise we're taking the one exercise you can die on and making it four times as deadly because now it's like fucking because you take that thing off. Now you're taking the exercise. You're taking the one exercise you can die on and making it four times as deadly. Because now it's like fucking guillotine. Yeah, seriously. Pay attention guillotine with all this weight in your hand.

You can die. Yeah. That would be the one, even though it skyrocketed my bench, it did do that. It shot it up. But looking back, I could have like, I think we all have genetic potential. And you're going to reach it. It's how quick you reach it. So I could have still reached that potential without getting hurt

if I would have just been more patient. The patience game. Nobody has it. I don't have it at all. So what about weightlifting? What did your weightlifting workouts look like? And how long were you in Colorado Springs doing that before you transitioned to powerlifting?

Not even quite a year because I had maybe a year at the OTC. So you didn't weightlift very long. No, I only weightlifted, you know, from, let's see, like the end of 1996 to like 1999. You know, like right before they really started training for 2000. Okay. So, yeah, and then I moved back. So, but a typical day of weightlifting would be, you know, we did a lot of percentage work back then.

There was not, we didn't do Bulgarian very much. And so, but we were squat heavy. You know, we did, there was a lot more assistance work, I think, than they do necessarily.

It seemed like nowadays or like with, say, Glen Penlay. You know, we did lots of pull, we did pulls. It depends on,

yeah, it depends on what school you're at, who's your coach. Right. Some coaches are, you know, very Bulgarian-ish.

And there's definitely some coaches that are very Russian. I would be more, I would lean towards what Kyle did at Streetport. They do lots of

strength training. It's almost bodybuilder-ish over there. It really is. Those dudes look it. They look cool too. Let's be serious. When you're at the beach

you want to look cool, right? Yeah, I wish I would've done more of Pierce's program when I was younger. I would be much more Jack today. I'm sure of it. I mean like John.

John just looks like a good athlete. When you look at kids you're like, you're like wow brick beast you look at him to go brick shithouse right absolutely fucking shithouse absolutely yeah but you know it would just be like we did lots of assistance and then when we when we were within six weeks of a competition that was like called the red zone by jagameer and then we were given the green light at any time to go heavy so just anytime you felt good just go for it just to dial in your nervous system and hit it and certain people would use that and certain people wouldn't like pete kelly you know the olympian he would always stick to the percentages to the t shane

hammonds would normally stick to the percentages to the t and i was an idiot and i would always always like red zone to me maxed out every day whether i felt it or not you know and so i think the ones who stuck to the percentages uh more closely did better so did you ever train with shane oh yeah yeah that's who was there i was with shane yeah he was there i guess you podcasted with him yeah we podcasted with him yeah like shane was if you don't know travis smash uh is on with john north on the weightlifting talk so if you want to hear more of travis go to weightlifting talk yes and y'all shane hammond on the other day is that what you said yeah so we're friends because you know we power lifted you know

when i told you i powered for first we power lifted together you know really yeah he was a b he said so you power lift with him and then went and did weightlifting then came back yeah his record still might his junior ipf record may still stand i'm sure a thousand eight a thousand eight or a thousand thirteen or something it was a thousand eight thousand eight junior yeah junior squat right junior super heavy squat uh single was it single ply or is that single ply man single ply briefs high bar us it was no briefs no briefs single ply suit that he was not even tight he could put his own straps i saw it yeah there's no doubt about his strength so then what's really impressive about him man i just somebody posted his highlight

reel somebody made a video of his best lifts and like from 2004 to maybe two two to four in that range dude he was doing easy cleaning jerks like 250 yeah at least in training he was doing good he was so good to spend all the time whale thing And to be such an athlete To make a Or paddle thing And make a good run At whale thing Get close to actually Like making a run At like

You know Getting in the top five Or something Or top ten He was close He got seventh You know It was his highest

But I think If he could have We could have started A guy like You know Shane Early You've got You've got a medalist

That's your Rezaza day U.S. Rezaza day Oh yeah You've got a medalist I mean a guy likezaza day. U.S. Rezaza day. You've got a medalist. A guy like him doesn't need steroids to be strong. He is strong. Period. He can dunk a basketball too, right? 5'9", I think he is 5'9 or 10,

380 pounds. I didn't realize he wasn't that tall. He's not. I feel like when I look at him on my computer, I was like, oh, that guy's got to be bigger. The first time I saw him at the Arnold, he walked by me and he just walks by like this tall and I was like, computer? I was like, oh, that guy's got to be bigger. The first time I saw him at the Arnold, he walked by me and he just walks by like this tall and I was like, holy shit, he looks way

bigger on film. It's because usually the camera's down here and the stage is up there. I want to say round, that's endearing. I wouldn't call that guy fat. I mean, look at his legs. You're like, his legs are, from a muscular perspective, as wide as they are tall. Yeah

this fucking quadriceps looked like looked like the Basketball he looked he looked like a little bit of a chubbier version of that that cow they fucked with its genetics tomorrow Yeah, the myostatin gene regulator whatever up right whatever is he looks like that. He looked like that I want to know when they're gonna get that for me. I want that. I want them to fuck with that myostatin gene. It'll be wasted on you. It would be wasted. Would you volunteer for that study?

No. Not now. Maybe 10 years ago. 10 years ago, I would have done anything. You'd blow a dude for gas money two years ago, wouldn't you? Did you all hear the story he was talking, Shane? He made me feel so inferior. Not many people on earth. It made me feel so inferior, as Shane story He was talking Shane He made me feel so Not many people on earth

It made me feel So inferior As Shane Hammonds Was talking about doing It was 793 pounds He did it 10 times Back squat Oh my god

He said It felt so easy He felt like it kept going Maybe 20 times I'm like What? What the fuck you talking about? Yeah

The only thing more impressive Than that maybe Is what Just recently happened The Russian Who got caught on death He took a raw squat attempt like a thousand three a melon shove or whatever whoa yeah a raw knee wraps he took about my stack and look he he goes down bounces and shoots up what and i go you could have just taken that one inch deeper and gotten

three whites a raw 1 000 pound squat which maybe shane could have done that that one inch deeper and gotten three whites, a raw 1,000-pound squat. Which maybe Shane could have done that, too, in his prime. But you're talking about strength that is, you're talking about like Hercules shit. Yeah, these dudes are like, I think Shane could have easily taken, you know, in his prime. Remember, he was a 23-year-old kid, and so true strength doesn't, you know, tap out until way after that. Literally, I was at my strongest until I was in my 30s. So if he could have gone back in his 30s and just went for, you know,

powerlifting, you're talking about easily over 1,000 pounds. How old were you when you peaked on your strength? I was 33. All right,

so one more year. But then it was a steep decline. Like I was, you know, 33, I was set and by 35 and a half

or 36, it was a huge cliff. Well, damn, now you're making me oh shit we're staring down the cliff Travis shit

yeah two more years and I'm done it's like a steepest rollercoaster of your life man you go oh I'm so strong nope

alright interview's over alright so I'm thoroughly depressed yeah let's take a break real quick when we come back Travis is gonna tell you

about how what the bar taught him about real quick when we come back Travis is gonna tell you about how what the bar taught him about life perfect and we're back alright you're listening to Barbell Shrug

or maybe you're watching it maybe both not watching without listening maybe you got your ears your earplugs in and you're just watching us move I'm sure it happens. You really believe that people just watch it and don't listen to the words?

I mean, look at this face. Come on now. Good point. My fault. All right, Travis, when we were at the American Open, we got in some really good conversation about... Deep. Yes, it was very deep. We had a good time.

Yeah. And you were talking about what the bar taught you about life. Right. Well, you asked me the question, like, if I had 45 minutes to deliver exactly what I wanted to, the exact people I wanted to deliver to. She had one shot. One shot. And it freaked me out for some reason. And then it just came to me as like, you know, the barbell, I really believe, teaches us who we are.

Like, you know, are you fearless? Are you going to go under it? Let's say you don't go under it. Will you try it again? You miss it this day. Will you try it the next day? Will you just quit? Like, it will teach you who you're about to be.

You know, will you drive thousands of miles away with, you know, who knows what's going to happen at the end with $200 in your pocket you know it taught me a lot about you know who I was to become and like the business person the husband you know the father and taught me all of that yeah so shit I was gonna say also I think another thing I would say is if when you do get under fiercely and you do have a good lift that also exposes because some people that builds the wrong kind of qualities they they take that confidence and they they start getting a little cocky they abuse the barbell their relationship starts going the other way they can't they don't really appreciate what it teaches them you know there's a period in my life too that where i definitely like let that get to my brain like you know arrogance and so but then i think

the barbell you know i got hurt And so it taught me, chill out. You know, you're not that cool. The big moment in my life came when I realized, you know, holy shit. I am not in a competition with a barbell. Because that's stupid. Because the barbell is kind of like the world. I mean, if you want to rise up against it, it will always be bigger than you. Yeah.

It's not there to be defeated. It's not something you slam and scream at. Right. Necessarily. Not that it's funny to go, yeah, fucking nail that. You do it respectfully, John. to be defeated. It's not something you slam and scream at necessarily. Not that it's funny to go, yeah, fucking nail that. You do it respectfully, John. I'm not saying John is an asshole for slamming bars. I'm saying I grew up in a world where the gym was fostering animosity and anger and hyper-competitive nature between people

and people I was friends. We had to destroy the barbell. We had to talk shit to each other. I realized there's one way of doing it. All just realize the barbell is your greatest your greatest friend and unrelenting like it's a teacher that will never leave you it's there it always calibrates you it's a calibration tool it's not something to be defeated because you can't defeat it what were you guys saying you talked about as far as like how you lift is like a good indicator of how you are in every aspect of life you can tell like who's like who's kind of wild who's like very conservative and like it all comes out on the platform yeah

when he when he uh threw that out at me i actually thought about mine and doug's lifting styles uh and even though we were lifting in the same gym same coach and we lifted side by side every day yeah when we showed up at a competition our our attempts were very different so Doug would probably not attempt something in a competition that he hadn't hit in the in the gym right and I would feel like I left something out on the floor if I didn't go for a PR me too and so like you know for me like my first lift is like something I can hit in training second lift is what I my best I've ever done and the third lift is... Go for broke.

Yeah, like let's fucking crush something. So like... In all fairness though, was Doug more successful than you, Doug? Well, that's the thing. Can you comment on how many... What strategy in your view was the best? I actually think I opened too light.

I think it worked against me because I was super consistent in training all the time. I fucking never missed lifts. Like if it was something that I knew I could hit, I could hit every time. I never like accidentally dropped 95%. It wouldn't happen. It was either I was trying to hit a PR and it was a hundred percent and I would, and I would maybe miss it like part of the time. And if I went up for one-on-one, you know, I'd probably get it. Like if it was like right there at the brink of my ability, then maybe I drop it. But if it's 98%

or below, no chance I'm dropping it. But then in competition, if I get a little nervous and I go, I'm going to open it at like 95% or like 94%, I would always throw it over my head, snatching.

My opener on snatches, I missed that in competition a couple times, like lifts that I never miss in practice. So I think opening too light actually worked against me specifically because

it would. It would be too light and I'd fucking over pull. I think, I mean, you got to just do what's right for you though. But that tells like so in life doug has been a little more methodical and conservative and that's been good for him and it's good for you i've been it's

good for me he's a he's a business partner and friend so he's he's good for me who's a little more wild and ready to jump two feet in and want to hit PRs in life. Andy's more like you, too. I remember Andy, he hit a PR on his second lift one time, and then he goes, I think he hit like a 102 on a snatch or something like that. Andy weighs like 155 or so. Yeah, he was a 69 kilo lifter. Yeah, and so he hit a PR, like 102 or something like that, and he goes, what do you think I should hit? And I was like, 104?

And he's like, put 112 on the bar. I was like, what are you talking about? He missed that. He did miss it, but that's Andy's style. He's like, fuck it, I'm going to go big and just see what happens. Did he Clark it? Did he Clark it? What was that?

He just made it to the hips. I don't remember what happened, but it was actually much closer than I thought it was going to be. Andy's one of the most aggressive athletes I've ever met. Like, you wouldn't,

well, you would know if you talked to him in daily life, but he's very professional in a professional environment, but as soon as you get him out of that,

he's a little nutty, man. Don't take that guy to Vegas unless you want to have a hangover. That's for sure. The advantage of that strategy is you go

home and tell your buddies, how'd the meet go? Well, yeah, I saw an opener. Second was good. Went for a big third, but missed it. If I would have made it, I would have fucking won. You go for something you never would have gotten.

You know, I was always, unless the bar could potentially hurt me or kill me, I wasn't even alive. I never even took it seriously. It was right where, like in powerlifting, when the bar was inching close to 1,000 is when I was the most alive. Capable of killing you. Yes. And then that's what got me going.

You know, it's that fear thing, like jumping off a cliff. We talked about cliff diving or skydiving. That is what's not in weightlifting, right? Weightlifting is beautiful in so many awesome ways, but I guess that one thing i still like about powerlifting is it's so extreme it is extreme well you look at weightlifting though when you're throwing 300 plus pounds over your head if it drops in your head it could kill you you know i mean yeah i love that you know i remember that feeling a good video of that happened to me 289 it's on youtube if you want to hit it if you're on the top of the head awesome but i remember those remember those days of like. Then I went out and got it.

I'm going to live. I just remember those days like you slam a couple of ephedra because that was the thing to do, man. Ephedra. I remember those days. You strap on that squat suit. You strap on the belt. The wraps are tight.

Your blood pressure is spiking. You unrack. Anything over 900 pounds. It's just such a different kind of feeling, man. It is. It's so extreme. And you go down to the bottom of the hole and your head's going to pop. You stand up and you don't even know what happened. And you get white lights. It's a certain kind of feeling. It is. It's so extreme. You go down the bottom of a hole and your head's going to pop. You stand up and you don't even know what happened.

You get white lights. It's a certain kind of addiction. I love it. There was a time, it was in 2003, where I was squatting. It was in the nines. On the way down, I felt something rip. I thought it was just my suit had ripped a little bit. No problem.

I got to the bottom of the squat and went to push up. I immediately realized that was my leg that had ripped. It was my quad that had ripped. It was my quad. Yeah. And look, it took, I'm sure it was only a few seconds, but it really seemed like an eternity for them to get, cause I mean, there was no helping my, you know, my quad was 22. There's nowhere to go when you got that happening. No.

Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure it was like 930 on my back. So there's no chance of you going up. They had to come save you. Oh yeah. Yeah. There was no pushing. There's nothing you can do. There's no, there's no chance of you going up They had to come save you Oh yeah There's no contractile That's too much weighing happening in your leg

You can't just like scoop him back in the rack casually I thought it was going to be some miraculous story Where he was like but I didn't give a shit I stood up anyway He was like no no no That's what I meant to say Yeah my quad tore off and I still got it So fuck you Yeah exactly That's what I meant to say. Yeah, my quad tore off and I still got it.

So fuck you. Yeah, exactly. I do what I want, right? Yeah, it did. But the next time that I went to that same weight, when my leg healed, was just like the best feeling in the world. It was like, here we go again. Let's try this one more time. You know what I mean?

It's a sick dance we dance. It is a sick dance. But it taught me I'm that way in life like you know I take risks in business you know and I'm not afraid actually I think but luckily my wife is more like you are you know like she's conservative so I'll be risky and she'll bring me down we meet in the middle you know if it were up to me I'd be like let's just go big you know yeah chips all in but she'll be like let let's just go big, you know? Chips all in.

She'll be like, let's put half the chips in. You know what I mean? Fuck, I guess. We'll save some of those chips. I've been legitimately injured by a barbell. Where Doug, I mean, he did have that one hit his head, but I don't know, have you had any major, like mess up a knee or a hamstring or a hip?

Yeah, probably constantly my whole life for like 15 i can't remember the last time i wasn't being conservative didn't help you out i think that's why i think that's why i was so conservative because i was hurt all the time always always in pain fighting fighting doesn't help i don't know maybe the fighting is what made you hurt and the barbell just compounded that you took a hard road which sport did you like the most not that we're interviewing you but fighting you did it's the most? Not that we're interviewing you. Fighting. You did?

It's the most fun. If you're winning, it's the most fun. I didn't like it. Aside from the punch in the face thing. That part fucking blows. When you got beat, how was that? When I got beat, I didn't get beat up. I just lost the fight.

That's all right. I don't know what all right means. It wasn't fun. It was depressing mean, I don't know what all right means, but it wasn't fun. It was depressing, but I didn't walk out hurt. I just, I got submitted and I got in a bad spot and he was cranking my surgery shoulder. And I literally almost tapped out before it started hurting. So I was like, I do not want another fucking surgery. I almost didn't take that fight because I was hurt, very hurt going in. And I was like, I don't know if I want to do this right i got neck pain and shoulder pain

elbow pain and back pain knee pain like i was i was fucked up when i started that fight that's a bad decision yeah it was i was in a bad spot leading up to that fight like i wasn't thinking about winning i was hoping that i wasn't going to go to the hospital afterward oh yeah that's the wrong mentality it was a bad mentality whether it be weightlifting or fighting or whatever, you can't be like that. You can't be trying to survive it. That's when you get really hurt. I almost dropped out twice.

My shoulder was getting cranked, and I was like, fuck, I'm done for. Have you ever been beaten up big time? Not really, really bad, but definitely a little bit all the time, but never hospitalized from getting beat up. I had my hip dislocated that one time, but I didn't i didn't feel beat up that was a um but it felt shocking thing to witness oh you saw that yeah well you bounced back he was there he was there

i just remember seeing like the after effects like you did what oh did you scream when it happened yeah yeah no i was screaming i was screaming stop, stop, because I could feel it Being tore out Stop, stop, stop, stop, and I land on the ground I was just like, fuck fetal position And I couldn't move at all, I couldn't roll my back I couldn't roll over, I couldn't do anything I could tell he was in so much pain If I was by myself in the woods, I probably would have died

Yeah, I could tell that he was in so much pain That he was about to pass out I was like, I could just tell by the look on his face I was like, he's gonna pass out from pain You had a toss or something face. I was like, he was going to pass out from head toss or something. You landed on a, I wonder if your listeners know that they're talking about his hip getting ripped out of joint. Yeah.

That's the femur. That's the femur coming like out. That's not a common thing out of here. That's not common. No. Usually happen to car accidents. It takes so much force. You get it.

Is it car accident or trauma incident or under surgery where a surgeon's opening up all the tissues, releasing them manually, releasing the joint I mean or like Bo Jackson I mean what really happened in an NFL game perfect the strongest guys in the world running as fast as they could yeah but like see dysplastic you have a hip dysplasia though hip replaced I think I don't know I think I'm working that sector I think I remember hearing that but god that guy's gonna have me but yeah getting to the point where like i got beat up so bad that i got cuts all over my face and two black

eyes and whatnot i definitely had black eyes busted up nose stuff like that but never like so beat up or like or like my whole face is just destroyed and you don't have cauliflower ears either you're still pretty handsome doug i got i got lucky on the cauliflower ears i wrestled for 10 or 15 years now, and I got nothing. I don't know how that doesn't happen. You guys know Randy Couture? Yeah. I started training MMA at his gym in Oregon.

That's how I first started. I met him in Colorado Springs. He was obviously an Olympic caliber wrestler. He was out there, and I met him. This is the greatest story. We go out to this bar in Colorado Springs called The Ritz. They're real busy. He looks like not human.

You met him? Yeah, we've met him a couple times. We've all met him, yeah. His head kind of looks like maybe he's not human. Cro-Magnon or something. Right. So we're in there. We're starting to have a few drinks.

And I'm like, dude, show me something. That's when he just got into MMA. He was already on the scene. And within maybe a second, I was fading out. Oh, no. Yeah, I was like, come on, man. Show me some stuff. And he put me in some kind of headlock.

He neutralized you. He put me in some kind of headlock. And within seconds, I knew to tap. It just made sense. Oh, man. And it's so casual. What's really scary is with him, you realize he's a kind guy. He's just showing me something.

But if I made him mad, if he needed to attack me, I'd stand no chance under any circumstances. No chance. No. Under no circumstance. Even if I had a bat. He's a big guy. He's not small. Like when you look at him, he's just like he could just run me over. He's a world class wrestler. He's a world class fighter. You think about a guy who's a big guy. He's not small. No. Like when you look at him, he's just like, he can just run me over. And his hands.

He's a world-class wrestler, world-class fighter. You think about a guy who's a world-class power lifter, power lifting against a guy who's never power lifted before. Right. There's no chance.

You can't compete. The strength that they have, you fighters, I mean, I know we're kind of going to a different place, but like the grip strength, the special strengths

that fighters have, I find fascinating. Do you guys think it can be trained? You know when a wrestler grabs your wrist and it feels like your radius and ulna are going to snap in half? What is that? It's the most functional man strength I know of.

Actually, a friend, Dr. Andy Galpin, he's been doing some tests with some UFC fighters at Cal State Fullerton and with Ryan Parsons. And that's one of the things they're testing. They have like,

you know, they're testing some like cardio type tests and they have like grip strength, but grip strength is one of the big ones. And, you know,

some of those guys, he sent us some numbers and it was phenomenal, extremely impressive. And then there was actually a couple of guys where I was a some numbers, and it was extremely impressive. And then there was actually a couple guys where I was a little surprised that their numbers weren't bigger. Oh, really? But they have heavy hands.

But they also have cardio of an Olympic cyclist or something. So it's kind of a... That's the interesting thing with some fighters, like what you're talking about. They feel so strong, but then when you put them in the weight room, they don't look weightlifting strong or powerlifting strong but then if you go wrestle with them they'll just fucking toss you around oh yeah so weak like so i wonder if like you know if

there's any correlation with like grip strength like oh there i think there is yeah like if someone has this amazing crazy grip strength that no one can explain are they more apt to be like a george saint pierre or i think they've actually done studies on that specifically on grip strength and fighting success that's why they're testing it right because they're trying to help these ufc fighters shore up their weaknesses so this one guy might have killer cardio but his grip strength's lacking so he doesn't really need to go run miles and miles and miles he needs to work on his grip strength you know maybe maybe do some deadlifts and then the other guy who has incredible grip strength, you know, he tends to gas out

fairly quickly. He's like, well, this guy really doesn't need to work on. This guy loves to deadlift twice a week. This guy needs to be out there, you know, doing the stair climber or something, you know. Even in the fighting, I think you'll learn, like, who you are. Like, you know, you could even go beyond the barbell. You could be, like like whatever you compete at.

It's like what kind of, you know, what kind of personality that you display in that sport is who you're going to be. And you know what you need to do, like, you know,

Mike and I, just embrace it and surround yourself with opposite personalities. And so like, you know, you're kind of more conservative. Well, perfect.

Well, operations is going to be your thing. I love it. I learned, I think last at the American Open, I learned more that weekend than probably my entire life from talking to two people. Like it'd be Mike and it would be talking to Christmas, like Abbott. Like, I mean, it was just phenomenal. And you know, the conversations that Mike and I had were like, it made me actually think

and rethink who I am and like where I want to go and so holy shit statement yeah so but don't talk to me anybody it really is a lot of pressure now I know but like we were having lunch and um you know I was just like it was cool I knew it was barbell shrugged and I was just eating. And then he started talking, you know, and I started listening. And then before I knew it, I put my utensils down and started listening. And we started talking. I was done eating. God was like, this dude has got something to say to the world, I think, you know.

And it really, you know, I mean. Oh, God. Not to be unquestionable. Look at that smile on his face. He's like, yeah, you're right. You're right. We all love you. The way that he thinks and talks that smile on his face. He's like, yeah, you're right. You're right. We all love you. The way that he thinks and talks, you know, the way he makes you like kind of look deep

into who you are and like, you know, don't just get caught up in the daily activities of what you're doing. Like really rethink like who you are, where you want to go, you know, like is this where you want to be, you know? And that's the kind of conversations that we had. So yeah. What you want to do in the world. Like you're, you're always talking about, I talking about this is kind of a crazy thing for most people

to talk about changing the world but yes that's something you talk about all the time like providing enough value to the world where you change the world and the way people think like on a global scale and that's that's not a normal thing for most regular people mouth breathers i got that from uncle henry henry Henry Rollins refers to people as like, hey, you're going through someone. All you hear is the mouth breathing, man. Some people just don't get it. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the real thing.

Like they have nothing to say. Well, yeah, there's people who are, I've come to see it as, in a Socratic sense, sorry to throw out a word that makes me sound smart in reference to Socrates. I'm impressed. He's not that smart, folks. Socrates' point of view

comes down to like, your head is above or below the fray. Below you think all the things like, which program's the best? Is weightlifting better than CrossFit or vice versa?

Politics, red versus blue, all this fucking bullshit is all illusion. And sooner or later you wake up and go, I'm just being fucking misled on every front.

And all these conversations that even seem real are completely, you know, sugarcoating and off the fucking deep. They don't really matter. You lift your head up and go, I'm just being fucking misled on every front. And all these conversations that even seem real are completely sugarcoating and off the fucking deep. They don't really matter. You lift your head up and go, oh, there's all this world that I see the relationship. I see how everything ties together. I see how the way this song is written

that makes it so great. The motivation, the passion behind the artist's work is what makes me a better fucking lifter. Everything's connected. See, this makes me want to go hang out with you guys all the time. I see how this dynamic works, man.

Yeah, this guy, that was exactly, you know, when you can look up and say, you know, like society will start to lead you a certain way and be like,

all right, this is what you should be shooting for. Like the, the house, the two kids, blah, blah, blah.

Well, the kids are, the kids are great, but the big house, but I come to a gym like this, this gym, like it looks in many ways, like all the, you know, the, the rugged, but the big ass. But I come to a gym like this. This gym, like it looks in many ways like all the, you know, the rugged places where I grew up. I don't think stuff. But what's different is the feel.

Right. And one thing I, you guys are talking about jujitsu and stuff. But one thing I was coming to, I've been thinking about a lot over the years. So it's what does jujitsu teach you initially? You go in there raw. And what happens? You go, I'm going to fucking wrestle this guy. And you go, and you struggle. and you're holding on to this guy,

and you're trying to submit him. And you realize all of a sudden you're wiped, and you're missing the whole point. This guy is casual, almost in a way sleepy, relaxed, and instantly turns you into nothing. And I realize, holy shit, man, fucking lifting weights is no different than that. I can be strong as shit, and we can have a good team. We can do that by having fun, encouraging each other,

showing compassion, enjoying ourselves, playing music that's not yelling and screaming. We can have a good fucking time and be a family in here, and that's what gets you strong. That is, you know, I think at Master Elite, that's exactly what we do, man. We try to have a really good family atmosphere. We hang out.

You know, we don't have, like, a lot of people, like, you know, trying to, like, battle to see who's the strongest. I joke around about being the 40-year-old that's stronger than everybody. But at the end of the day, my total goal is to make everybody here, you know, stronger than me. So I put my numbers on. In all the ways that you can be strong. In all the ways. Not just with barbells. Not just with, I know.

I want to raise my kids up. you know you saw easy you know he's walking around the black guy here yeah is it not that we're you know we'd like to get more diversity but that's how what we have and so you're you're in a small town north carolina small town north carolina and that's what i get so but um you know i want to raise them up right and try not to make the same mistakes like to be a world champion you do not have to be a jerk to the world. You do not have to walk around like you're Billy, you know, badass. And you just got to, you know, what you should do. This is the point I'm trying to make.

Is when you get to that, you know, popularity or you're doing really well, is like say to yourself, now, how can i affect the most people in the best way how can i change the world i look back and when i was winning all those competitions you know i i was getting hundreds of emails every day like you know how do i get my bench up how do i get my squad up and i had such an opportunity to affect people you know to to make their lives better and all i did was want to stroke my own ego over and over and over. And want to, you know, I would literally, this is terrible,

I would literally go on the forums just to see what they were saying about me. And I wanted, if there's anything negative, I would get super pissed. That's the route to suffering, man, in a very Buddhist sense. It's like you grasping for all that, holding on to that.

Not you, all of us. That's where the unhappiness and unsatisfaction comes from. And that's what keeps you pushing that shit into your 50 years old you go wow i don't have hips and shoulders anymore i ground myself down to nothing over what over shitty trophies but if you use it to affect lives it's awesome you know if i would use the popularity to say all right now don't do these mistakes or like here you know don't sacrifice your family or don't do these mistakes or like here, you know, don't sacrifice your family or don't, you know, leave your wife or don't neglect their kids. If I had done that, you know, I could have changed lives, but, but you changed lives now.

I can't say, is that kind of what you're saying right now then? That's what I'm doing. Travis on a hot day, uh, you may have this thought. Uh, if you find yourself without shade, the best time to have planted a tree is 30 years ago. The next best time right have planted a tree is 30 years ago. The next best time, right fucking now. Right?

You can do good right now. Right now, man. I'm moving to Memphis, man. I'm going seriously. So, yeah. So, I mean, that is, I guess now we've gone full circle and you see, you know, what it's taught me. It's taught me, good and bad things about me. It makes me aware of when I start to get that old self in me, I try to keep it down. You do what you want, and you want to do good.

Right. I think sometimes if you get those emails about how to get your bench or deadlift up, sometimes it's good to address that direct question that someone wants to answer to and then give them also an answer they might need. They don't know that they need. And I think that's really important. Yes. I try to really answer all these questions.

Like it's so hard, you know, with podcasting. As you guys know, you get a few people that listen to you and want to learn more about things that you talk about. So I really do my best to answer all the Twitter and the Facebook and the emails that I get. And not just with some short bull crap answer. You know what he said the most too about really empathizing with people and trying to care when I answer a question now. Instead of just giving them an answer and being like, here you go.

Is literally think about what I'm about to say to this human being. And be like, how can I affect them the most? And so, uh, that was the second, that's the, the, maybe the best thing that he talked about,

how, when he learned about empathizing and he wrote an article and I reposted it, but, um, about when you really care about what this person thinks and you really try to put yourself in their shoes. Well, then not only are you changing their lives,

but that's the best way to get what you want out of life too. Because when you can go to bed at night and be like, man, I really affected lives. Well, what else do you want? Yeah. All right, so we're going to wrap this up. We could go on for another five fucking hours. I think we could.

We'll have to do another episode for sure. Yeah. So what do you want to promote? What's your Twitter? We could go on for another five fucking hours. I think we could. We'll have to do another episode for sure. So what do you want to promote? What's your Twitter? What's your website? If people want to learn more about you, where do they go? Twitter, at Mash Elite. My website is masheliteperformance.com, M-A-S-H.

Why do people misspell my name? Mash. Isn't that simple? It sounds easy. How else would you spell it? Marsh, Nash, anything but mashel you spell it? Marsh. Nash. Anything but masheliteperformance.com. M-A-S-H. And then, you know, listen to, if you get a chance, check out Weightlifting Talk.

You know, I got to plug my man, John North, Attitude Nation. Oh, yeah. AttitudeNation.com. There you go. All right, guys. See you next time. Cheers, friends. Great time.