Barbell Shrugged - Barbell Shrugged  — Health for High Performance w/ Mike Salemi — 332

Episode Date: August 22, 2018

Mike Salemi (@mike.salemi) is a Kettlebell World Champion, Kettlebell Master of Sport, Bulgarian Bag Pro Trainer, and a CHEK Practitioner Level I & Holistic Lifestyle Coach II. Mike's journey in strength & conditioning started at the age of 15 as a competitive Powerlifter. At 19, Mike became a WABDL World Champion in the Bench Press and Deadlift. While working as a D1 collegiate strength & conditioning coach, Mike was introduced to the power of the kettlebell, and the work of respected Holistic Health Practitioner Paul Chek. Both have had large influences on Mike's development as a more well-rounded athlete and person in the years that followed. Currently, as an avid Kettlebell Sport competitor, Mike has achieved the ranking of Master of Sport (Long Cycle & Biathlon), and became the 2017 WAKSC World Champion in Long Cycle. Through his unique approach, Mike has been able to integrate a high performance form of athletic training using a holistic model. His dream is to continue creating educational materials and programs that support a more balanced athlete. In this episode, we talk about competing in kettlebells, suples Bulgarian bags, Mike's experience working with Paul Chek, becoming a world champion in kettlebells, holistic practices for high performance, and more.   Enjoy! - Doug and Anders   Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs_salemi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please support our partners! @organifi - www.organifi.com/shrugged to save 20% @thrivemarket - www.thrivemarket.com/shrugged for a free 30 days trial and $60 in free groceries @OMAX - www.tryomax.com/shrugged and get a box FREE with your first purchase @Onnit - www.onnit.com/shrugged for a free 14 pill bottle of the leading nootropic Alpha Brain and 10% savings on all purchases. @foursigmatic - www.foursigmatic.com/shrugged  to save 15% on your first purchase @mikesalemi- www.mikesalemi.io/shrugged for 15% off everything ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shrugged Family, it's Anders Varner. We are back this week with Mike Salemi. I had never heard of Mike Salemi until we interviewed him, let's be honest. But it turns out this kid is like a really gangster athlete coach. He's like Paul Cech level 50 certified, which if you're that high and Paul Cech is signing off on you, you're super badass. On top of that, I learned about some new training methodologies in this interview that I had never heard of.

I knew that kettlebells were a sport, but I've never really competed in kettlebells. And Salemi's like world champ kettlebell gangster. So I learned a lot. And there's some like bag stuff. I still don't even really know what the name of him is. But if you follow him on the social medias, you can see him doing some really, really cool bag work. We've got some tour dates coming up in September.

We've been to Paleo FX, went to the CrossFit Games. We are going to be at the Granite Games coming up in early September, which I'm really stoked about. We're going to be getting in there on Thursday night. The guys at the Granite Games have done a phenomenal job growing this event over the years. They started back when the local competition thing was just kind of kicking off, and there was a few local competitions around that were dreaming bigger, thinking bigger. Not many of them made it, but the granite games really have made it and um it's a product to or a testament to what

these guys are building out there and i'm really really stoked i remember the very first time that i realized like oh crossfitters are super diesel these days. They had a max snatch event like four years ago, maybe five years ago, probably four years ago. And if you used to snatch 275 pounds, you were like the strongest person in all of CrossFit. And turns out at this competition, at the Granite Games four years ago, 275 was like a 12, and like 10 people did it, which was really just day one of like, man, I need to get out of this sport. This is terrifying. And also, holy shit, the real athletes showed up.

So I'm really stoked to get out there. They're having a big, like, get-together gathering of all the minds and influencers on Thursday night, which I highly recommend getting to. But if you're going to be at the Granite Games, please stop by, say hello, take a picture, shake some hands, tell us all the cool stuff that you have going on in your life. We'd love to hear you. We're going to be doing some live shows out there, so pull up a seat, come listen to us

before the whole world finds out about the podcast. We are also going to be in Tahoe at the end of September for the Spartan World Championships. They're having a podfest out there. We are going to be a part of it. We're going to be hanging out with the kids over at FitAid again because they're awesome. And I'm just really, really stoked to get to these events and keep this the shrugged world tour going um want to thank our sponsors make sure you're getting over to omaxcbd.com slash oh i have a super funny story thank you to the person that reached out and told me that i've

been doing these reads all wrong i always say backslash because I'm a gym person. Some people are internet people. The internet people told me, the gym person, that it's no longer a backslash. It's just a slash or a forward slash. So I'm going forward slash from here on out because I like to have some direction in where I'm telling you to go. Omax, CBD.com, forward slash shrug, saving 50% off your first month's supply of CBD oils. Let's face it, we're all stressed. It's 2018, and we're expected to be masters at doing a million different things at once, which is just flat out stressful.

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Get over to omaxcbd.com forward slash shrug for 50% off one month. Also, make sure you're getting into the program vault. Program vault's on fire these days. Let's face it. You want to get strong? Check. Got it. You want to get fast? Check. check got it you want a better breathing check got it mobility check we got all the things in there there's 12 programs in there now get over to shrug collective.com backslash vault man i'm ready to get into some mike slimmy shrug collective.com backslash vault

and uh we've got 12 programs in there let's get into the show Get into some Mike Salemi. Shortcollector.com backslash vault. And we've got 12 programs in there. Let's get into the show. Awesome. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner hanging out at Paleo FX in Austin, Texas. Doug Larson in the house. What's up, bro? Good to be here. Yo. And our boy, Mr. Strong Coffee, Adam Von Rothfelder.

Killing it, right? Dude, I told you you're getting 100% today. Here we go. We are joined by a really, really awesome guest today. I'm super intrigued to talk to you, not just because kettlebell champion, but there's some weird bag stuff going on. You said the word of it. I forgot it.

Can't wait to dig into this bag thing that I saw on your Instagram. Super interesting. And you're doing a couple of movement seminars, kettlebell things at Paleo FX. We're going to dig into this. Mike Salemi. What's up, y'all?

Give us a little background on kind of how you got into the kettle bell thing because that is kind of where you've made your name and where you're the kettle bell champ. I love kettle bells. The sport of kettle bells is a little bit beyond me. I don't really have much of a history and so

I really want to dig into kind of where your background is and then how'd you get into the sport of kettlebells? It's not like, that's like the NFL. Not a lot of people are like really involved in it. Um, it's like the least, the world's least known sport, but it's getting more popular now because of you. I hope so. I hope so. You know, but my background really started as an athlete. I've been pretty much an athlete my whole life. I started as a gymnast from a young age. And gymnastics, I always say, gave me the foundation to appreciate movement and awareness at every level.

No matter what sport I've competed in, it started in gymnastics, and then it transitioned to competitive powerlifting for almost two years, then Olympic weightlifting, then kettlebell sport, and now it's kind of a combination of everything. But I've been super, super fortunate at every level in every sport that I've competed at to have amazing coaches and amazing mentors so when I was a gymnast my coach was Krasimir Dunev he was the silver medalist in 96 he also went to to Barcelona and he was a high bar specialist so that was my coach growing up and like the dude looked like an adonis so from a young age like that was my role model and you know he grew up in the soviet system and so training methodology i mean he was taken almost like he was taken from his home into the training

facilities that's what he eats sleep slept and breathed and so you know i remember from a young age maybe like when i started with him he was my second coach maybe around 10 11 years old he was like if you want to look like me if you want to be like me if you want to move like me first thing you got to do is no fast food so i remember coming home right away and that's when i went to my mom i said mom no more mcdonald's we had mcdonald's carl's jr taco bell and pizza hut literally right down my street uh and it's actually the same home that i live in right now which is pretty special but we uh you know she's like what i was like no krasimir says no and you know and and that's that was my first exposure to movement and and through gymnastics but due to injury you know it's interesting because at every single level of every sport that i've competed at

the transition from one sport to the next all happened due to injury yeah so injury took me out i had a growth spurt and then i realized one i'm getting tall so uh it's not really conducive to being a gymnast but But two, I was never, never nearly at the level that I would say I compete at a high level in gymnastics. So from gymnastics, I had a chiropractor who at that time was the drug-free bench press champion of the world in one of the major federations. And so he was like, you know what, you're pretty strong, you can move well, why don't you come down, why don't you train with me? And he was a part of a very, very small, close-knit powerlifting team. So he brought me in and it was a part of a very very small close-knit powerlifting team so he brought me in and it was a key club so members only and there was maybe like 16 or so of us in there and very intense

very focused but it was an amazing experience so the mentor that i had from krasimir from gymnastics then turned into the owner of this gym and a lot of the principles as i was getting into powerlifting was modeled after louis principles um I know you guys are super familiar with Louie. And so, you know, I started there as a young age, had a young age, had a very good foundation of strength and really, really took to all the power lifts so much so that, you know, I've always loved being an athlete, but I think even more so as a coach. So I was fortunate enough to travel to Ohio, spend about a month when I was 18 with Louie and train over there. And, you know, the owner of that gym, his name was Steve Yugi took me under his wing, really kind of taught me

the ropes for the first eight to 10 years. And then, uh, you know, Louie kind of took it to a whole nother level. Um, so then, and then Olympic weightlifting, uh, fortunately we have Jim Schmitz at home. So I spent a year or so with Jim Schmitz, just trying to get a little bit more familiar with the, with the Olympic weightlifting movements. And then actually the first time your question, answer your question, how did I get into kettlebells? It was first at Westside. So at Westside, you know, we're talking when I was 18, 19. So we're talking like 12, 13 years ago.

You know, at that time, I think right before Pavlo, Pavlo or Cotter, I think it was Pavlo, I'd come out there, worked with those guys maybe in the few years prior. And at least when I was there, I don't know what they're doing now, but at least when I was there, they were just using they're doing now but at least when i was there they were just using basic movements swings primarily we were just using swings and just like tricep extensions and all that stuff but so i first used that to supplement and help the power lifts and i effing loved them and so i always so right when i got home louis connected me with someone that i could buy bells from and at that

time i still own them they're like the worst bells in the world. We're not only, I mean, I have nothing against all bells, but not only were, you know, handles misshaped and, you know, all sorts of crazy stuff, but those are my first bells. And, um, you probably still get a lot done with, with the shitty kettlebells. Oh, you can get just like a bad barbell. Like you can still get brutally strong. Even if your equipment isn't like best in the world, if you're just like putting forth 100 putting forth 100 effort oh absolutely when i was training in russia and out there they uh you know all the kettlebells were all the handles were all misshapen so here now i'm used to like like kettlebell kings is the the bells that i use amazing quality bells that help those guys kind of give them feedback to make better and better bells and all the

handles are precise 35 millimeter standard window size is exactly bell size is exactly balance is excellent single cast you name it but when we were in russia the handles themselves like some of them were like divots you know like these and so you can imagine we're getting really narrow well actually still round but at the bottom think like it was a poorly poor poor weld or poor construction so you're grabbing like a point almost? You're grabbing like a point, and imagine lifting that. For kettlebell sport, we lift for 10-minute long events consistently. Which just sounds fucking brutal, by the way. Every time I think of kettlebell sport, I'm like,

those guys are fucking tough as nails. You have to have a ton of grit to be a fucking kettlebell competitor. To cycle like 270s for 10 minutes straight, you have to be mentally fucking strong as shit. Can you set them down? No. Well, you can set them down, but the to be mentally fucking strong as shit. Can you set him down? No. Well, you can set him down, but the set's over. Oh.

Yeah. 10 minutes is a long time. That's a part of the sport. It's like sitting here and just being like, okay, can I do more? Yeah. We always say it's out. What does that event look like, just for people that don't know? Yeah, so you're embracing the suck, as we call it.

So it's either here or here's your rest period. If you stop here, like, you can't – your set's over. Like, you can't do a double swing. But if you're just listening, he can rack the kettlebells at shoulder height or he can hold them locked out overhead. But you can't, like, hang – like, you can't just, like, you know, like a farmer's walk. You can't just, like, stand there with them in your hands.

No, no, that's too easy. That's not Russian enough. I want to dig into, though though kind of that gymnastics background. I feel like gymnastics really is like just this basic movement sport that makes everything else in your life easier. There's so many good athletes that come out of a gymnastics background and how just understanding how to organize your spine and move in space will transfer over into everything else you do. Did you find that as you, I mean, what was the injury that you had? And then when you got into powerlifting, were you able to see some of the

connections and how those sports play together? Certainly. Like I mentioned earlier, like I wasn't even a high-level, you know, gymnast at all, but just laying in, you know, six days a week of practice, sometimes double days. It's like for years. Double days, six days a week. No big deal. It's like a hobby. Double days. I dabb a week it's okay that you didn't go to the olympics you're still pretty good no no not not at all

but just that level of awareness that level of body control certainly has served me so well over the years and also you know outside of the physical you know every single time like i remember being you know being so afraid to go to practices because you're learning a new skill, right? You'd be faced with your fears every single day. And I think if we look at the developmental theme behind that, it's like, you know, those are all light. You know, everything that I've learned in the weight room has served me so well in other areas of my life. So getting comfortable with failure, going up against your fears. And so that was just routine.

And so even, you know, what might seem not scary for someone else is could petrify, you know, myself. So, you know, having to do that, but also having the support of a good coach, someone who you trust, you know, was amazing for me. So I've been able to take that into different endeavors. Like even being here, like, I'm just like, you know, this is, this is a big deal event, or even, you know, sharing this podcast with you guys. I feel so honored to be here, but it's like, you you know sometimes there's those fears rise up but you just say you know what you got to go through it because on the other side the celebration you just know it's going to be so much more beautiful what is it like in um and you're in ohio louis not a normal human being what is wrong with that guy why is he so smart like what what are you what's what's going on

why did you go there well so when i was so when i first started at steve gym which is the palace gym i'd been there for about four or five years and the gym was amazing it is amazing but i really wanted to be a coach um and at that time the highest level and i think still the highest level hands down in competitive powerlifting is louis and so i always knew like if you want to be the best you have to surround yourself with the best if you want to be the best athlete you also have to train with the best athletes and so he was the highest level of education i have dude i have like closets full of vhs's from way back when and i remember being at the i was like 18 yeah still in high school and just watching you know the dynamic effort method videos like over and over and over

and i used to watch him so many times I couldn't understand a word he was saying. He was talking so fast. That's part of his marketing. You have to confuse your shit out of everyone. Now come here and pay me money to learn. Come to the middle of nowhere. Train in this place that has no air. You'll be stronger than everyone else in the world.

Yeah, totally, totally. He's an interesting guy. So I got to watch his stuff, and I was like, man, I don't understand too much of this stuff. be stronger than everyone else in the world yeah totally totally and he's an interesting guy so i got to you know watch his stuff i was like man i don't understand too much of this stuff you know i'm 18 this is 10 plus years 13 years ago whatever it was and i was like but this shit works so i started using the principles with my team and then i went out there for a month and actually it started i gave him a call i gave him a call like hey this is somebody you know he's in ohio i'm in california norcal i call him up out of the blue i'm like you know my he's in Ohio. I'm in California, NorCal. I call him up out of the blue. I'm like, you know, my name is Mike Salemi.

I'm a competitive powerlifter. I told him two sentences about me. I said, I would love the opportunity to come and just sit in a training session, whatever it is, anything that I can do to be around you, I would just love to be there. And this was like a few months before I went out. It was the summer when I was 18. And he goes, come on out. Just come on out.

Book a flight and i was like what really and so i called him again like a few days before like a week before i said louis this is me you know mike again i don't know if you remember me but uh i got my flight booked i'm coming out he's like okay great i'll see you then something like that every time i've ever pulled up the west side louis is always there he's always standing in the parking lot with his shirt off and someone's like someone has like 300 pounds in a wheelbarrow and they're just like they're just walking around and we're like hey Louis he's like all right guys okay come on in we're squatting over here he just brings us in we've never signed any waivers we've never like asked him to show up he just like

everyone can just come in and train and he's happy to coach you he's amazing as long as you're working hard he'll love you that stand around and watch not so much you gotta try yeah and you know i haven't kept in touch with him since then and i would love to connect with him because i was only there for a month but he's left such such an impression for my whole life because you know when i was there i didn't even have a car i didn't even have a license or anything and so the hotel i booked i was like oh walker i'll ride a bike and so i got there i actually went to like one of the local i don't know like their version of costco or whatever it was bought a bike and And so I got there. I actually went to like one of the local, I don't know, like their version of Costco or whatever it was, bought a bike.

And then I tried to go to Westside. I was like, well, it's dangerous over here trying to make it from the hotel to the gym. I was staying in not a great hotel. It was okay, it was safe. But I was like, man, this isn't the smartest idea. And then Louie goes, how are you getting here? I was gonna ride my bike.

He's like, well, it's not a great idea. You know, I'll pick you up. And so he was kind enough, never knowing me before, just having talked to me on the phone for whatever it was, one to three months before, said I'll pick you up once, twice a day. And we were training four days a week, sometimes five days a week. Picked me up for a kid he never knew, brought me in, threw me right into the rotation.

You could get thrown into a pack of wolves right away. And I remember dead lifting right into the squat flight i i remember i'll never forget being thrown into you guys were called chuck bogopol oh yeah yeah so i i remember doing rack pulls with chuck in the morning and literally they were going up in 100 you know uh 50 kilo plates right and so at that time my deadlift actually right when i left there was 615 and so we were doing rack pulls below the knee and i literally got three attempts in so it's like the warm-up you know and then 50 50 kilo 50 kilo 50 kilo and i was like well i'm out of the rotation

so i got three part of getting strong is like oh fuck i got no one to hang out with anyone being forced on the bench being forced on the bench makes you want to be stronger and then vogel went up to like mid nines i think in think, in the rack, and I was just like, wow. Was AJ there then? AJ Roberts? Not that I recall. John Stafford was there, a few other guys, but I don't believe AJ Roberts, not one I recall.

What were you weighing with a 600-plus pound deadlift? 176. I was in the 181 class. So I was, yeah, 615 dead, 605 squat, and 470 bench. Baller. Killer. When you, you know, going back to kind of in your gymnastics background, at what age did you start that at?

I think I started around 8-ish, give or take. 8-ish? Yeah. And then in between that and your experience at Westside, you know, 10 years later, what was the, like, the curve of your athleticism going forward? Was it always gymnastics? Did you, were you, I mean, were you supplementing

strength training in your gymnastics already you know like at a young age did that like start later on where you're like oh i should be stronger whatever it is you know that's funny like you know i feel super blessed that i had krasimir as my gymnastic coach because we used to have fridays at strength days and looking back i probably wouldn't put a kid through it but it was no joke three hours of conditioning straight conditioning and i remember being the first time i did it when i went to his gym i was literally sore for almost like two weeks and uh so i was first i would say exposed to like body weight intense strength conditioning back then so at a young age so when i went with krasmer i think i was like 11 or so

years old but then once i injured my back and i met up with this guy mike ludovico the powerlifter there was a rehab phase. So firstly, you know, definitely it was rehab. But at that time, I was also competing or playing football at high school. Got it. And our high school was super competitive. We had I went to the high school with like Barry Bonds, Tom Brady, Lynn Swan. So super athletic high school.

And I remember when we were playing football, like I was a freshman and, you know, I was OK. But I remember never wanting to leave the weight room. I would like always like put me a third string. Like I don't even need to go out there. I just want to hang out and just hang out in the weight room. And that's really where I would say I found weightlifting was like, man, I really love this stuff. And I want to see about how I can continue with it. So at the end of my freshman year, I was talking to Dr. Mike.

And I was like, you know, I want to stick with this this i want to see where i can go with it so started in gymnastics with krasmer on those friday conditioning days and then just those little weightlifting workouts and football uh and then i was like dude i want to be in the gym did you find yourself to be uh stronger than a lot of the kids that you were of equal proportion just because of the gymnastics training you know because gymnastics has such a a great isolation component, and that's a strength that a lot of people are missing in today's culture with, like, constant movement and that being able to isolate. Did you feel that? Absolutely.

Yeah, I think I was one of the stronger guys on the team. Definitely we have guys that were much bigger than me, because at that point freshman year in high school, as I was coming out of gymnastics, I was on the skinnier side, on the smaller side. So I wasn't, you know, one of the bigger guys, but I definitely could push a good amount of weight and then i had the awareness to you know self-correct and different things so i had more awareness when there was some olympic

movements taught even though we didn't have too much teaching in them but i was able to kind of learn a little bit quicker than maybe some of the guys i find that gymnasts have a better ability to correct like their head and neck alignment head and neck alignment because they're like finishing like looking a certain way. And it's almost like something that they snap to very well. So that's awesome. That's an interesting observation, yeah. Did your lower body lag behind your upper body for any period of time since gymnastics,

especially strength-wise, is so upper body dominant? You know, that's interesting. I never would have thought of that, but I would say that that's definitely an accurate statement for sure. But it's interesting because I gravitateditated like the deadlift for so long now i would say probably the squat but the deadlift for so long was my favorite lift hands down and so i think it was because like we never really did that you know in gymnastics or anything like that so yeah you always want to you always want to learn what hopefully you're not very good at so it's like i suck at this i want to learn and i want to put my reps in and so i love lower by train so i would definitely say there was a definite discrepancy because your deadlift is really really high

compared to your squat most power lifters squat a little bit more than they deadlift but you were like six and six right and something yeah 615 a little higher dead than i was the squat so 10 pounds yeah i mean world records for squatter in the 12s the very recent world record for deadlift just hit 11 1100 so squat typically is a little bit more were you were you wearing gear like i was wearing a squat suit and all that i was wearing gear yeah yeah even with a squat suit like oftentimes squat suits help the squat more than the deadlift and so that's part of the reason that people squat more than they deadlift but that's really interesting that you're you're more balanced between those two movements yeah i found that's i would say that's totally accurate like what i found on the deadlift even though i definitely did straps up

suits like i was most comfortable just deadlifting in groove briefs, and then I would just throw a singlet over it just because I had more freedom to get down. But I found for sure on the squat, being totally wrapped up, cinched up, it definitely helped. But the deadlift, for me, a lot of times it was more of just getting in the proper positioning made it a little bit more tougher to be in the gear. So a lot of my best pulls happen just in groove briefs. Did you wrap 615? Were you raw or were you fixed to the bar were you

using hand straps no i was not using hand straps yeah yeah no that was grip that's awesome yeah raw grip yes it's interesting that you went from that power lifting piece though i feel like a lot of power lifters they just really lacked the mobility to be able to get into certain positions and then transferring that into olympic lifting um in San Francisco for like three months and had no car, no money, no anything. And all I really wanted to do in that three month period, and it never happened, was like take the nine buses that it was going to take me to get to Schmitz's gym so I could just be in that room with that guy. What is that experience like?

When I moved there, I was just learning about Olympic weightlifting,lifting and i was just like i have to go to find this guy he has answers for me like how do i get a unicorn yeah but i literally like there was it was like one of those things where i had i was living in the studio apartment that cost me way more money than any tiny studio should ever cost anybody no car like it was like four or five buses just to get there and it was like i i just can't do this right now but what is that experience like that place is incredible was this when he was at physique menu feet downstairs in the basement uh yeah yeah yeah i know it's like yeah yeah because then the old days he was in the sports palace weightlifting had not taken off at all it was still like a pretty underground like strength sport and that's

why it was like impossible to get to where he was i don't even know where he is now but um it was it was far enough away that it was just like i couldn't justify literally the 45 hour whatever the hell it was to get there i remember just being like i can't do this right now like um but what is that what is that experience like he's a he's a master like he's incredible he's amazing and i only stayed with him for about a year mainly because like i mean i really my whole objective from working with him was just to get i had no introduction really a little bit in football but not much at all especially because i only did football for a year freshman year high school so i just really wanted to learn the olympic lifts a little bit better get an introduction so that i could feel more

comfortable teaching them so i my whole goal was like i'm going to work with i want to work with the best of the best that i can get access to for something reasonable where you go through a legit training cycle. That's why I went to Louis for a month. Like I wanted to do a full, at least three weeks, you know, sequence there. So with Jim, I was like, I think I was with him for about 10 months. And I said, you know what, I'm going to stick with this for at least as long, you know, six to nine months until I compete.

And so, you know, I didn't do anything crazy whatsoever in Olympic weightlifting, but it was an amazing experience to, to work with Jim. And what I will say, what I was so amazed at, you know, the trainings were very good, but one of the things that really blew me away is when I just did that one competition with Jim was just working and being, being handled by an amazing coach. You know, like I was so, that's, you know, coming from Westside or coming from still competing for a number of years before that, you know, I'd been handled by different coaches. And I was so amazed and so interested at, like, you know,

how he would keep you calm or how he would, you know, call your reps or just the subtle things that you notice about a coach when he's coaching a lifter. I was, I just felt so taken care of. And so, yeah, I never went far enough to really do anything legitimate with it or in terms of big numbers or anything like that, but in terms of having that experience of learning some of the basics and then feeling like a true master coach is in Olympic weightlifting,

it was incredible. Did you have trouble learning the lifts, or was your time just around barbells enough? Because you've seen a lot of strong people, and all of a sudden you give them an Olympic lifting movement, and all of a sudden snatching is like this arm movement. They don't understand their hips. They don't understand pulling under the bar.

Did you struggle with any of that stuff? I definitely did. I think the gymnastics, honestly, you know, powerlifting hands down made that foundation of strength for sure. So that's the base, right? But in terms of, like, understanding the movement of the Olympic lifts, honestly, I think gymnastics served me better than anything else. So there was a first, like, you know, honestly, three-ish months was awkward.

You know, just very, very awkward feeling the groove and finding where it is. And it's still, like, I can improve so much, you know, even though I practice the Olympic lifts a little bit now. But there's so much more that I can improve. But there was a definite struggle there in the beginning. You said all of these kind of transitions have stemmed from some sort of injury. How did that lead into kind of the kettlebell piece that you're more known for? Absolutely. So I left gymnastics due to a lower spine injury, so I had a

pinched nerve right around L5-S1. So that was the first thing, and I didn't quite know what it was, but I got relief working with the chiropractor. But in terms of, you know, kettlebell sports, so we discussed, you know, to your question, Doug, earlier, like what is kettlebell sport for the listeners who aren't familiar with it? So classically, it's a sport based out of Russia, and it's the primary way in which they condition and train the Russian military. So what we use classically, now there's different events now but classically there's two main events you can compete in the one that i've been competing in for almost nine years which i would say is like quote unquote my bread and butter that i really love is called long cycle so long cycle is two

kettlebells one in each hand the professional division is uh 232 kilo kettlebells so 72 ish pounds each and then we also have amateur division, 224 kilos or 216 kilos for men as well, but professionals, 232 kilos. So you swing two bells through the legs behind the body, clean them up to chest level, jerk overhead, pause, fixate. So that means the bell has to stop and the body has to stop moving. Then you lower the bells down, swing through the legs, and you repeat as many times as possible via judging making sure what's a legal rep in 10 minutes you can't set the bell down otherwise the set's over and so that's long cycle sounds awesome

i dare you to try it really interesting about that and people listening in their car right now wherever you're listening to the podcast get into the YouTube because the way you move, like if I were to do that event, I don't even know if the strength would break down. But just in you practicing that shoulder positioning, I can see that your movement probably from some of those gymnastics days and understanding just like body awareness probably gives you a massive advantage in the sport. I would absolutely say, yeah, that body control, that body awareness probably gives you a massive advantage in the sport i would absolutely say yeah that body control that body awareness even again just those few years as a young athlete has served me so well yeah so well i can't do a handstand that well so i'm probably gonna suck at going overhead for 10 straight minutes with 72 pound kettlebells

you'd be pretty shaky yeah i mean it's interesting because so much of gymnastics is, you know, getting that pelvis to, you know, finish forward. And so many things you do, whether it's a flip, you know, getting the knees up, keeping the chest straight. And when you get that kettlebell, that all carries through very nicely and protecting that lower back. When you're sitting in that position in the rack, you kind of sink in, right? So you're sitting in here. You demonstrate. You're the pro at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what you're demonstrating is I would say? So you're sitting in here. You demonstrate.

You're the pro at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what you're demonstrating is I would say like – You're doing it good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so nervous. Am I doing it right? I've done a little bit of it.

You know, I've done a little bit. I've worked under Pavel when I was like 21. Oh, right. Yeah, so I mean – but I mean I have never competed. But I know that, you know, with that jerk-like position, a lot of people will kind of get into their lower back, and that actually becomes the fatiguing aspect where a lot of the guys can't get back into this tucked position anymore,

and they're like holding on to it here, and they start losing it. Absolutely. So essentially the rack position that we use in kettlebell sports, so we have a few strategies. So let's maybe talk about if people are familiar with hard style, more of like the Pavel type of training, that would be more of a hinge-based type movement in terms of the lower body. What's the lower body doing? The main qualities that it's expressing is primarily power and power endurance, right? So it's a hinge-based movement that's derived from a deadlift.

The breathing pattern that's used is more of a stabilization type breath, right? Usually a pressurized exhale. When you compare that to strategies that we use in kettlebell sport, it's a little bit different because now the goal is how much can we maximize both movement and energetic efficiency? And I would say there's three to four primary ways. One is through the trajectory or the pattern that the bell in the body follows. So as opposed to a hinge pattern movement, we use more of a pendulum-based movement that would resemble more of a scooping pattern. So when you use a scooping pattern, what happens is essentially you're recycling the energy back into every single repetition.

So the bell will fall as the body falls, and you can see my knees are migrating forward. Then from here, as the bell goes back, my hips and my body goes back. And then there's, in fact, a re-raising of everything else. So what happens is the bell is raised to a higher point, so now you can ride the wave of momentum down, and you can essentially scoop on the way down as if you were doing a vertical jump. Because what will happen is, you know, I'll ask you guys, and I always ask this in my workshops, is when you're doing a hard style swing,

and I use that time and place hands down, it's amazing, what's the main direction of force, or what's the main direction that the bell's going when you're doing a hard style swing? Forward. Forward, exactly. But in a jerk, or let's say in a snatch, where does the bell need to finish? Up. Overhead, right? So what we learn in kettlebell sport is to not only accelerate, decelerate, control, how do we work with momentum, but how can we use our body against the weight as opposed to having to use muscular effort? So what'll happen is as the bell swings through, we'll in fact counterbalance our body back as if we're leaning.

And if the timing is right, essentially it almost feels effortless. So we almost, we scoop the weight up into the rack position. And now just by redirecting our body and leaning back against it, what was a primarily horizontal or forward force vector, now we combine vertical and horizontal. So think about like the second pull in Olympic. What does that serve, right? And that's why in my experience, why a lot of the Olympic coaches that I've worked with,

like a lot of them don't like kettlebells. It's because a lot of the people shoot the bar forward, you know, when they're coming from it. So time and place. So like I work on a swing, I just call it the Olympic swing. And essentially it combines the power expression of a hinge-based swing or let's say a hard style type swing.

It involves the mechanics of a pendulum-based swing. So we incorporate the horizontal and force vectors. And then we incorporate a triple extension position at the top to essentially dynamically balance the weight and the body. So you can use just the body and the trajectory to redirect the bell in a vertical position. So when you scoop back, are you looking to get up on the heels at times? Like where you'll see, like I've seen Cotter, you know, I see some guys get into the heel a little bit and they get that little rot and then pop. Is that something that you practice during this competition, that heel kick? You will see some people do that, but at least in my experience, what I found is, I mean,

the feet as the main platform for, you know, everything comes from the feet up. I like keeping my feet flat to the floor, especially through the big toe so I can push and accelerate through, especially like even once I really, you know, it was interesting, you know, we always hear root through the floor, right? Root through the floor when you're lifting. And it wasn't honestly until I took a course in barefoot rehabilitation that I really understood what that means and how important are the feet. And actually, once I started getting my feet and my toes to actually start working, no joke, within I think like two workouts, I had an 18 rep PR on my lifts just by getting the feet and being able to transfer that force from the ground into the body on up. So I would say going back to that, it would be the mechanics of the movement,

so the pendulum-based swing, right, that redirects the bell into a vertical position, and we can ride that wave of momentum and contraction. Then I would say we can talk about breathing after, but the breathing is very different, right? But then definitely the rack position. So the rack position is a compensation strategy of what we use because when I was, you know,

what got me into kettlebell sport, or actually what the injury I me into kettlebell sport or actually what what into the injury i sustained in kettlebell sport was a compartment syndrome in my arm that no one could figure out except for uh you guys know paul check super well he loves you guys so he we maybe touch on him a little bit after i'd love to share my experience with him because he's been such a great teacher for me and such a great help over the years but the rack position is essentially a compensation strategy that we use in order to get some position of energetic rest.

So in a good solid rack position, kettlebell sport specific, to compete at a high level, the legs are completely straight to which we actually turn off the quads and you can shake the quads. So the legs get an energetic rest more or less. Then the elbows are tucked in and you're actually resting the elbows on the iliac crest. So from this position, we turn off the shoulders. So we've turned off the quads, we turn off the shoulders. And then from here, when you dip down in the jerk,

you maintain that level of connection, and then you come up. So actually, the arms only come up, honestly, just like an Olympic barbell. It should be you duck underneath the weight. So you're almost driving the bell off the hip and the lat, in a sense. Exactly. Versus like a pressing, sitting high up, where so many people are used to with, say, like a front squat using kettlebells.

Yeah, you're definitely not doing the elbows up because the more you can use the legs to drive the power from the earth into the arms, into the bell, the more – we call it the bump. So it almost looks like a wave-like fashion where, boom, and then you drive underneath it and jerk. That's sexy. Yeah. What is a 10-minute world champ doing with 72-pound kettlebells?

Well, it depends what weight class. Obviously weight class and stuff like that. But at least the organization that I compete in, which is the WAKSC. So that organization, so I weighed, I was in that one, which was two years ago in 2017. I think I was in the 160-pound-ish class. So I was doing 232-kilo bells, and I was 51 reps. And then I also competed in the five-minute category for 240-kilo weights, 240-kilo bells as well. I'm going to do 10 sets of five on that hey um we're gonna take a quick break but to be honest with you i can see that you're like a real

student of the barbell and movement and this is freaking awesome when we get back i want to get into some of the new stuff because when i scroll through your instagram account the stuff you're talking about i've never seen some of it awesome let's hope you're enjoying the show. See, I told you, Salimi's a gangster. We're just barely getting into it. We're just scratching the surface. Second half, we get to take a really big deep dive. I want to remind you to get over to MuscleGainChallenge.com. This isn't the real name of the e-book, but I didn't name the e-book.

And this is what they should have named it. How to Get Super Yoked. That's the name of the e-book, right? Everyone wants that, right? MuscleGainChallenge.com. Make sure you get over there. Download the free e-book, How to Get Strong Now. MuscleGainChallenge.com.

MuscleGainChallenge.com. It's a long one. If you are interested in a mass gain program that is a part of the Shrugged Collective Vault, make sure you get over there, download the free e-book, and learn how to get super yoked. I want to thank our friends over at Thrive Market. They are savage. It's an online grocery store. If you go to thrivemarket.com backslash shrugged, you're going to get $60 in free organic groceries.

You're going to get free shipping on those groceries and you're going to get a free 30 day membership to Thrive Market. You know, there's all kinds of cool stuff going on in there. I love Thrive Market's website because I can just go in, search for my specific nutritional needs, which is usually meat, the vegetables. They have some meat over there. They've got the vegetables over there. And peanut butter.

Yep, peanut butter. Make sure you get into thrivemarket.com backslash drug. I love getting this box showing up every month to the door. Delicious food, friendly people. It's just so hard to come by really good, organic, delicious food. And Thrive Market is making it happen over there. It's really awesome. So thrivemarket.com backslash shrug.

$60 and free organic groceries. A free 30-day trial and free shipping on those groceries. thrivemarket.com backslash shrug. Also, our friends at Organifi, they're the coolest of all time. Love Organifi. I just had a brand new baby. They sent me a green onesie. And on that onesie, it says Organifi. Let me tell you something. I don't know where my baby came from because she's got red hair. I don't have red hair. Well, I don't have any hair, but I definitely never had red hair. My wife don't have red hair. Well, I don't have any hair. But I definitely never had red hair.

My wife doesn't have red hair. But let me tell you something. The red hair. Welcome back to More Real Shrugged. I'm Anders Warner, AVR, Doug Larson, Mike Salemi. Yo, this new piece of movement that you're getting into, some sandbags, some throwing this thing around your body with long straps, which I'd never seen before.

But you mentioned Paul Cech before the break, and we got to interview him. I'm still not really sure how much he came into my soul in that interview, but I feel him. And his name comes up a lot, and I don't know if I'm projecting him through me, but what was your relationship with him? How did you guys find each other? And, yo, what is this shaman up to when he's fixing your arm? No one else can do it. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, I've been studying Paul's work since pretty much right near when I was at the highest level of powerlifting for me. So right before I went to Westside. So when I was 18 years old, I was working as an S&C coach at a holistic lifestyle center. So I was so blessed, and i feel incredibly grateful because that center essentially was modeled all after his teachings so at a fairly young age i was exposed to paul check's work how to eat move and be healthy and then later i wanted just to take my coaching to a whole nother level and so i started enrolling in some of his classes and i wrote you know at that point when i was studying his work i mean paul's really made his name off of he's really solved medical failures

whether it's been professional sports teams cancer you name it the cases that no one would want to take or could take when someone's been through 10 or 20 doctors they would go see him right so i remember being in his holistic lifestyle level coach two class and at the end we do uh essentially a commitment for a meditation practice to do 100 days straight of consecutive medication meditation and he would sign this this wooden stick that we use in a gong practice we call it and i remember being in a long line of people from all over the world and like i didn't have essentially i'd just come off of a kettlebell sport comp and at that time i was trying to reach one of the highest levels in the sport and almost four years consistently if i recall correctly every single competition i would get

close but fail get close but fall short get close but fall short and it was such a self-destructive process that it was just it was to the it just destroyed me and i remember being in tears and i was just like who do i go to what do i do and i had hlc2 at that time lined up a few weeks after one this this one competition and i was like you know i'm just gonna ask i'm gonna ask does he take clients or what because at that time you you know to me especially as a student in studying for years i was like you know I'm just gonna ask I'm gonna ask does he take clients or what because at that time you you know to me especially as a student and studying for years I was like well Paul checks up here you know he'll never you know doesn't work with the common man and I remember being in class and I was just like in the line I just within five minutes with a whole line of people behind me I was like you know Paul I have this issue with my arm no one can

figure it out I've been trying for two and a half years I've seen nine different practitioners all good people great people but I just can't figure out what's going on and he asked me like two questions at the time felt around and he goes i think i know what it is but i can't i can't be for sure i can't promise you anything i need to get you down to san diego get you on a table and assess you it's going to take one to two days at least to assess you and write a program i'm this much an hour and uh you know write our assistant vidya at that time and uh let me know and so i wrote almost i think it was all because they were moving the institute at that point to where they are now in carlsbad and uh

it took them almost three months to respond back and i was i think i did another competition before that failed again and i was just like you know what what can I do and within a few days after I got a response email saying hey we received your request we'd love to have you come down come on down to San Diego so I booked a trip to to work with Paul and you know after a whole day of assessments and all sorts of stuff essentially I mean it was a number of different things but the main thing that was being expressed was a compartment syndrome in my arm so essentially at every challenging attempt whether it was duration whether it was load you name it my forearm would fill up with blood i'd kind of lose feeling in my hand i'd be forced to

drop the bells but i didn't know exactly what the root cause was and so with him because he views the body as a system of systems he looked at obviously diet lifestyle he has a whole totem pro approach i'm sure he shared with you guys so what we found that i had a few of the things was an atlas axilis subluxation uh that was causing a bunch of shifts down chain i had an anatomical short leg which was causing me essentially almost like i was lifting in a hole so usually if i recall correctly about five millimeters or so if you're within five millimeters it's not so significant if it's above five millimeters if i recall correctly that's when it's significant and i had between eight or nine millimeter conferred by x-ray uh disparity between the left and the right foot so anatomical short leg uh atlas axis subluxation

and also to your question earlier i had a huge imbalance between the mover system and the stabilizer system so the tonic and the phasic system so what would happen is is i think from power lifting and having like a really strong motor like i was very strong for the weights that i was lifting and even now like i will always say that i'm way more strength athlete than i am an endurance athlete which is why i like the challenge of kettlebell sport still anything more than three reps is high rep for me like like yeah but um too much louis simmons in you there too too much Louis Simmons in you there. Too much Louis Simmons. So going back to your question, what I noticed was and what Paul really identified was there was such relatively speed.

I mean, 10-minute set is really tough. So to be able to maintain alignment and maintain structural integrity overhead and not essentially hang off your ligaments and compensate through excessive anterior tilt or drifting the arms back is almost impossible and what I found is that was happening so much earlier and essentially as the bells would come up I would do whatever I could do to get him in the into into the rack position but I didn't have the stabilization to maintain good technique as the later reps went on so when you look at the best lifters in the world so my main kettlebell sport coach right now is Denis Vasiliev. So he's eight-time world champion. The dude weighs, I think he's 185, give or take,

101 reps with double 32s in 10 minutes. Yeah, like insane, insane. But the amazing thing is when you look at him on rep 101 compared to rep number one, they almost look identical. Obviously he's sweating. Obviously he's sweating obviously he's working facial expressions will show but it's so amazing to see a technician like that and so whether it's an olympic weightlifting whether it's 40 you know whatever whether it's

just the bar 200 kilos it should look close to the same right and so paul identified that and he's like wow we really got to do some some serious corrective work to bring up your your ability to maintain postural endurance. And so that was a big thing from a conditioning standpoint. So, you know, fast forward two and a half years. So what I would do is pretty much every single month I would fly down to San Diego, spend one to two days with Paul. We would do a check-in in the morning. All during that time, pretty much we would track all of my markers of musculoskeletal system stress, limbic emotional stress, and hormonal stress on a daily basis.

It was on essentially the Google Docs that I created. He would be able to check it on real time and really, in addition to his four-doctor system, really start correlating all the lifestyle factors, whether it was I was under relationship stress or I was under family stress, and exactly how that was affecting my training and everything else in my performance. So two and a half years of once a month traveling down and really assessing, checking in, writing a program, it was just an amazing experience, absolutely amazing. And you had mentioned, you know, what does the shaman do? And I remember the first time I went to his office, which is in a beautiful place. It's gorgeous. You guys have been there.

Yeah. It is fun. And you look at the table and there's so many herbs. It's a legit view. It's like at the peak of a mountain, more or less, where there's big cliffs on each side of his house. It's like 270 out of the 360 degrees around his house is a fucking big drop off over a canyon.

It looks fucking amazing. Like if you were to find a way to become Paul Cech, you have to go to a top of a mountain to be able to understand the insights that he would have into movement and health. I imagine he just lived in a cave in a mountain. One or the other. He didn't have like a normal house. Wait, he's got a house?

That's his office. It's like a multi-million dollar office with like a library, the books that are in there from like 1900s, like strength and conditioning, which they had it all figured out back then anyways, and now it's just regurgitated. Stones outside. Totally. So a water charger.

Did you stack rocks? Yeah, that was a good deal. I had to stack rocks. It's like chess for strong people, we always say. I actually got to meet Paul Cech here for the first time. Oh, cool. But very early on during my MMA career, like 22, I saw this, not an ad, but an article on him in Muscle & Fitness.

And I'm like, I turn it open in the grocery store, and the first thing that catches my eye is this kind of older dude standing on a BOSU ball, on a stability ball with two 32-pound kettlebells in his hand, like doing a shoulder press. And I'm like, who's that guy? I need to buy this magazine and figure this out. And now, I mean, it's incredible seeing all the information he's put together and all these books and the holistic programs. How long ago was that that then you got the HL Holistic Lifestyle Coaching and you went through this, you know, treatment with him?

We started working together, if I recall, somewhere in like 2013 maybe. Oh, so not, I mean, not too far. No, very recent. I would say, yeah, and then we did two and a half years of very, I mean, he's still my, you know, I still consult with him for sure if I can't figure something out. But really, it was two and a half years of once a month going down every single month, going through the whole rehabilitative process and then building me back up as a, you know, decently high level competitor. Wow, that's an awesome resource. Yeah. So you're still competing in kettlebell sport? I am. Right now I'm going to take a little bit of a break because I want to focus on some of the other things that I'm really into and starting to build my brand and really get out there a little bit more because, you know, it takes, I mean,

to compete at a high level, it's your life. And training is still my life, but I really want to, one of the messages for me right now that I've been getting is for me to really grow to the next level, it has to be about everyone else. And so developing more programs, doing what I can do to travel, teach, and really just share what I love, whether it's a combination of Paul's stuff, kettlebells, Bulgarian bags, Aldoas, you name it. Hold on. Slow down.

We've got to get into all that. I'm just going to glam pretty much all this stuff. I shocked everybody. It's a Bulgarian bag. Yeah, Bulgarian bags. Let's just break them down. Talk about them. What do we got?

Bulgarian bags. Go. So Bulgarian bags developed by Coach Ivan Ivanov. So a Bulgarian Olympian. I believe he was actually at the year that Krasimir was at the Olympics in 96. So Bulgarian Olympian, but also one of the former U.S. Olympic coaches. And a Bulgarian bag, if anyone listening to the show is looking one up online, it almost looks like a sandbag that's kind of like in a horseshoe shape.

And essentially what he was looking for was a tool that he created. Now the Bulgarian bag is only one out of five tools in his whole conditioning system he was looking for a tool that would mimic all specifically wrestling but it would have it has applications hands down to all grappling sports uh which i'll kind of get into in a little bit but every single movement that he used and created with the bulgarian bag all mimic sports specific movements whether it's throws you you name it and the most iconic movement is what we call the suplex spin. So his company is Suplex, and it's the Suplex Bulgarian bag.

How's that spelled? S-U-P-L-E-S. Boom. There it is. Right on the shirt. There we go. But an incredibly fun tool. And if I were to say, so you may have seen me, I don't know if you could see me,

but the ball that I was swinging around yesterday. We see everything. You see everything from up here. We're on clouds. The supless ball uses very similar movements to the Bulgarian bag. So the spin-type movement where essentially the Bulgarian bag is primarily designed for strength and power, especially grip and cardiovascular conditioning. But if I were to say the most, would be grip strength and power and when you compare that to the suplex ball you're really

really working speed and endurance and you're learning how to accelerate force how you're learning how to decelerate force through rotation all the movements all mimic fight movements especially in the sport of wrestling so it's an incredibly fun tool and every single person that i put have gotten their hands on the bag has fell in love like especially for the jiu-jitsu athletes we make jiu-jitsu sleeves out of gi material and so i mean the main training bag that i use personally is a 37 pound bag when i was first using the gi sleeve coming from a 37 pound bag i was literally using a 17 pound bag and the increments between bags you could kind of think of it like kettlebells like a four kilo increment on a bell

Yeah, it's a lot of weight. That's actually something I wanted to talk about a little bit with the kettlebell stuff is like yeah when You look at kettlebells. It's like I've got 16 32 53 72 100 There are ones in between some people just don't buy them There isn't like these small progressions that you can take in these sports. So from a 17-pound bag to a 34-pound bag, how long is that progression in that people can learn these things? So it's a great question. Well, now when you've got companies like Kettlebell Kings, for example, so it used to be with bells at least four kilo increments.

But now they manufacture two kilo increments in all. They sell both cast iron type bells but also competition bells. And the competition for sure in two kilo increments, but now they manufacture two kilo increments in all. They sell both cast iron type bells, but also competition bells. And the competition for sure in two kilo increments. So it makes the developmental progression so much easier. And even like usually you can even kind of a Jimmy rig like a one kilo increment too. Or like sometimes you'll see maybe my Instagram like I've got plate mates that I've taped on and, you know.

I've seen the fraction plate like duct taped on the bottom of the bell. Doesn't anyone have it with a big magnet, like a one-pound magnet or something? They do. There are companies, yeah, that will for sure do that. Just make sure that the magnet is strong enough so it doesn't fly off. Someone goes blind for the kettlebell swing. So we're super fortunate now to have smaller increments, so it makes the training process much, much easier. But in the bags, I mean, once someone – because the bags,

there's four main dynamic movements that you use with the bag that we teach in certifications. Number one is the spin, which is more of a rotational-based movement. Number two is the snatch. So all the way through the legs, kind of like a kettlebell swing, up, punch overhead, repeating that. The third is an arm throw. And then the fourth is we call a swing squat,

where essentially pull the bag through the legs, squat, almost like a swing squat with a kettlebell But different implement. So those are the four main movements, but there's just like kettlebells There's hundreds of movements that you can use and they're all different patterns How do we change angles from one position to the next? How do we train levels from high to low? How do we rotate? How do we do all these things? Seamlessly and rhythmically from one movement to the next I think it's really easy to get lost in the kettlebell world too because everyone just thinks swing, snatch, clean and the flowing stuff that you're doing and piecing all this stuff together and like

continuous movement and you talked about how you're running a seminar here on the the flowing warm-up Is that just bringing all these pieces of your training life together, and kind of where does that come from, and how do you structure those? I guess the purpose of flow is not to be structured, but yeah, like especially in teaching it to people. Yeah, I think, you know, I was really fortunate, you know, my background at first started off quote-unquote hard style, so developing, you know, movements that stem from the deadlift or powerlifting-based movement, grinding-based movement, strength-based movements, and then i love that but then when i wanted that challenge for kettlebell sport then i learned okay i can take this base this this

this power strength structural integrity type system but now i got to learn how to breathe i got to learn how to be more rhythmic i got to learn how to conserve my energy and essentially be a little bit more athletic right it's more more Olympic-based movements that you have to do for 10 minutes. So being very, very, like, fully, fully immersed as a hardstyle practitioner, kettlebell sport practitioner, and then just wanting, honestly, in recent years, and it was so funny, you know, in Paul's program, I'll always remember, he focuses a lot on play. You know, I'm a very serious athlete.

You know, I do everything to the best of my ability, everything I can to reach the next level. And he was like, you lot on play. You know, I'm a very serious athlete. You know, I do everything to the best of my ability, everything I can to reach the next level. And he was like, you need to play. Like, I never had a coach legitimately write in your program on a day, play. In the water, water play, 20 minutes. So, essentially, I had to schedule time to get out there and play. And where I'm at right now. Did you find it hard to play?

Yeah, like, wait, how do I play? How i not compete right how do i how do i not turn this into a workout yes right so unbound play was very something something very hard for me in the beginning but over time you kind of just you just kind of fall into a groove and you get within you start enjoying it a little bit more so i think that like a time of like planned experimentation time where you can where you're playing, but really you're trying out new things, you're innovating, you're seeing what new things might feel good that you can incorporate into your workout later?

Is that the point? The play for me in that situation, the play was actually something that was incorporated in all cycles, so it wasn't like a testing. But we definitely did on the offseason, let's say, okay, we're going to try and gain a little bit more mass here. We're going to play with some different strategies. But the play was more, just uh just to balance my life stressors and just to have a more well-rounded approach to lifting it in life because you know

what had happened was is for for most of my life i was the all or nothing athlete and so if i lost it was mentally and emotionally destructive but i didn't really have this concept of what is a process goal how do we enjoy the journey how do we get more enjoyment so that whatever happens or even if my life doesn't you know if I stop being a competitive athlete that I can still be happy and love myself at the end of the day essentially and so that play I think was such a huge part one two from a physical perspective like doing unbound play in the water to decompress and just move after some double days is amazing for the body but then what I found it's like there's no rules like no one's judging me and yeah what i've gotten you know and even right now i really kind of want to break from the sport just for a little bit is

honestly and that's why i love the bulgarian bag and some of these tools man like and flows with bells like i just want to play like i don't want to have the pressure to go out like i just want to move feel good and just play it kind of reminds me of a there was a uh you know like a study done on children and when they were in kindergarten they were like who here can sing everybody puts their hands up who here can dance everybody puts their hands up and then they asked you know third graders and it was down like 60 because now they're being judged and graded on their ability to do those things. Singing class, art class, right? So it's like for someone like you, you built everything up to be, you know, for a function of strong and this and that.

And you lost the ability to just move without this context. Yes. So doing this, did you even feel like that helped your injuries? I mean, was that something that kind of assisted in you staying injury-free was the play? Was that one of the aspects or one of the thoughts behind play? I would say so. I would say so. And one thing, I mean, when you're competing at a high level, I mean, injuries are going to happen.

Like, it just comes with the territory. But at least you have more tools in your toolbox to like, okay, if things do get out of hand, like, what do I do? And so that's what I really learned is, okay, getting in the ocean and playing ice cold water after training, going to the beach, Half Moon Bay, if you guys ever been is like ice cold water. But really dangerous. Half Moon Bay.

Beautiful place. I was at Mavericks last year when it was 25 foot. Yeah. So pretty. Frightening. So that's a real thing? Oh, it's terrifying. Literally you'll step like three feet out in the water.

You're like, okay, there's a drop off right there. Like, I'm cool right here. And it was was like you can't really like see the wave but it's coming in and you can see this just like monster and it's so far out it's so menacing and there's rocks in front of it i don't mean it's fucking terrifying i just derailed this conversation hafoon bay go ahead it go ahead. It's cold water. It's cold water. Sorry. Different healing therapies, play, movement.

But yeah, and that's where the flows came in. So in the first day of the workshop that I taught here was an introduction to kettlebell sport. But more than that, it was more just teaching people the principles of movement and energetic efficiency that they can take through any movement practice. And then yesterday was essentially, it was warming up with kettlebells,

so just a different perspective. And then we did primarily all Bulgarian bags, and then I did a little ball demo at the end just to give people that experience. And what does this ball look like? You explained the other thing quite well. What does the ball look like? So the ball looks like, let's just say, a black medicine ball. It's awesome.

Yeah, black medicine ball with straps on both sides. So where the Bulgarian bag is very grip intensive, the ball you don't really have to deal with that because we essentially have just these wooden rungs that you hold on to. And literally the testing protocol that we run at certifications is almost like a 10-minute more or less unbroken protocol. So you have to be able to go one movement to the next and not set it down, where if you use a different, like a legit-sized Bulgarian bag,

and you were doing dynamic movements, there's no way you'd be able to last. So much more speed focus. If you check out my Instagram, you'll just see some of the transitions and some of the neat combinations and coordination movements. There's so much that we do. We do slams with them. We do lateral walking, forward walking, back. So any plane, any movement,

you can really have fun with it. Does it have like a ball, like more of a buoyant structure, or is it more like a slam ball, like a deads on the ground? No, no. It'll actually slam, and then it'll bounce back. You learn to catch it in different positions and drop down and move.

That sounds cool. A lot of times when we think about core training, everyone really tries to – I don't even want to say the sit-up thing because I think we've all kind of gotten past that. But nobody really understands. Work your core, bro. Work your core. But when I see you do these things, it's incredible how much core stability has to go into creating power and maintaining neutral spine and how has that kind of affected the kettlebell side of thing or your performance goals or

just in general i feel like nobody knows about these training methods but when i see you do them like uh we all need to do that why why is that under a rock and no one knows about it it's awesome that you're talking about it and bringing it to the public because i feel like it's very very important that people understand what you're doing especially with you know classically most kettlebell movements are primarily sagittal there's now there's more people doing circular movements and stuff like that and we could say the snatch a single arm snatch there is some element of rotation but not too much but with the bag, I mean,

I would say it makes rotation training fun again, because there's so much rotational effort, and you have to learn. You can't be rigid and stiff the whole time. You know, when you're learning, even just a kettlebell swing, first you start with the deadlift and you progress up, or Romanians or whatever, and you could start slow. With

the bag, definitely you have to be technical, and you have to hit all your positions but if you try And muscle it it'll bang like you have to learn how to be fluid and time that breath stabilization sequence So when you accelerate that's the moment that you breath hold and then you expel air through your lips very much Stu McGill and you could probably speak on this a little bit I went to one of his seminars and he was talking about how like when people kick or they punch the breathing and then having that like whip in the middle and i see a lot of that

and and what you're what you're doing and what you're talking about with that rotational stuff yeah i mean what's what's interesting too with that i mean what you're saying that everything's so sagittal and frontal with so much so much of our movement and so much power is in the transverse i mean like ken griffey jr's swing i mean it was effortless and that thing that was all hips i mean like his hip was like call right there we all just wait do i get one of those jr made it to the podcast god that's awesome buzzword and uh i mean i think that that trans that transverse movement is lacking and it's cool to see uh like somebody like on it or or supless being able to kind of show these transverse movements as so many people actually create injuries when they go to the side

of any sort you know just picking up something or any of that have you with like do you apply this to general people and like what are the results that they see as like you're someone who's on this upper crust right like where it's like oh i'm i'm a very high performer versus someone that's walking into the gym you know i'm a i'm a nine to fer and I come here three days a week. What am I going to expect from transverse movement and a little bit more flow in my life with strength? Well, I think at least in my experience, I mean, even before, when someone first comes in the door, whether they're an elite athlete, general pop, you name it, like the first thing that I'm looking at is

do they have the prerequisites to meet whatever the exercise is, right? Done safely or at least done with good movement mechanics, there's no bad exercise, right? And if they can meet the prerequisite they can even on a kettlebell movement like if they can get their arms overhead without compensation then obviously they meet the prerequisites for overhead like we're looking at the shoulder the spine etc so if someone can meet the prerequisites and they've been cleared then i know at least they're safe to move forward in that and then within that person depending where they are level wise conditioning wise movement wise and conditioning wise, movement wise,

and coordination wise, because the Bulgarian bag incorporates a tremendous amount of coordination effort. We essentially like for the suplex spin, I think in our testing protocol or our education system, we have almost like 12 progressive movements leading up to it. So before even someone spins, they've literally like,

I'll just spend even just an open arm swing. I'll just spend as much time as I need there. And once they've mastered that then you move them so they may take longer and especially depending on the athlete like when i've worked with let's say runners compared to a gymnast so their movement vocabulary is going to be much less than let's say a gymnast a runner compared because they're they've just been conditioned in this one movement so they may take longer whether it's progression-wise or even their program may be much longer. So I've got one swimmer that I was working with for a number of years,

and she's a very good athlete. How were they for coordination, side to side? They were actually okay. Actually, she was actually not bad. But one of the things that I remember was the programs that I would put her on would be two to three times longer than someone, let's say who had a wrestling background or gymnastics background or jujitsu, you name it. So even myself, like I remember I was changing programs, even when I was at, uh, working

around that time of when I was at Westside, almost at once a week, once a week, once it was two, two week, two week cycles because I needed that changing of stimulus, and that's even when Paul would program for me, it would always change, right? But with her, you know, she needed even just the first two weeks, she was just learning how to, the nervous system was just learning how to coordinate these movements. So possibly staying on a program longer

or just spending more time working through the progressions, provided they meet the prerequisites for every stage in that process. Fish out of water. Fish out of water, yeah. What does all of this look like in five years from you? I feel like you're already so far ahead in this kind of like understanding movement culture and implementing, you know, different implements or objects. Like where do you go with this?

Yeah, I'm honestly, I still feel like I've got so much to learn and there's still so many coaches that i want to work with and learn like in june i'll be spending a few weeks in boise with ivan training with his wrestlers and just learning more so even just in his system the bag is one tool the ball is another tool he's got something called the gladiator wall the hertz fighter and dummies throw dummies and every single one of those there's education systems built around it. So just like we have a level one and level two Bulgarian bag, although I think it's only the ball we have level one, the other ones he will develop educational systems.

So there's so much that I don't know. And so even what I do know, I want to just keep learning as much as I can get that out there. I want the Salemi system. I'm working. So right now, I'm definitely developing a bunch of content and online especially because I want to see how many people I can reach. And so I'm working

on a bunch of stuff and hopefully in the next few months, I've got one project I'm really excited about. Kettlebell related primarily. So definitely if listeners want to, best place to find me is social media on Instagram. What's this program all about? I want to say, I can't really divulge this so it's a pro i will say it's a program for anyone who truly is interested for coaches it's not for everyone one thing i've

realized the hard way teaching workshops is uh you know i'm a people pleaser by my nature and one of the things i was teaching a workshop and it was almost 30 people and uh i was teaching this workshop and the result it was almost three hours and most all the people there like 90 of the people absolutely loved it like the feedback was he's passionate uh he's form focus he's technique focus wow i love the instruction and then maybe five percent it was interesting because it was a donation based workshop that I did for a new gym opening up. There was, I think, like a handful of five or six people that showed up drunk. And I was like, or showed up from partying the night before.

And some of the comments were, he's boring, he's bossy. And one of the things I realized was the same content, the same delivery of information that I go into whatever seminars give my whole heart all, this is my, this has been my life since I can remember the same information presented to the wrong people could do actually harm to your business. And so what I realized is, I mean, I'll work with anyone, but I gravitate most towards athletes and especially coaches. So what I realized is even though like this program will definitely be for anyone who wants to learn bells at a foundational level, it will be primarily geared towards coaches,

geared towards a non-dogmatic approach, let's say, to learning kettle bells. And it will be accessible for all people. So how to coach, how to spot things, and essentially just go through a basic developmental process of hopefully what it takes to be, in my eyes, a good coach through a learn by doing program. So there'll be breaks practicing and stuff like that because, you know, at any skill,

you know, to be a master of any skill or come close to mastering any skill, you have to practice it. Right. So what I found as a coach is especially, you know, right now I'm either traveling, teaching or working on some educational content for online.

And what I found over the years, and I've had this conversation with Paul, is, you know, he shared with me once. He goes, you know, Mike, you've taken all these classes with me. And we were talking about, you know, we'll do some online stuff in the future together. He was like, you've taken all these classes. And, you know, after you've sat in my classes for five days, what was the experience like? And I was like, shit, man. And exercise coach, which is the base level of his practitioner side, amazing. Changed the game for me in terms of learning how to be a more well-rounded personal trainer

and learn the body as a system of systems. And he goes, after five days, how much mastery did you have of the information? I was like, dude, I probably retained 2%. And so what he shared and showed to me is like, well, one thing, if you really want to master any craft you have to practice it and so even though the online medium is not perfect what it can allow for someone to review rewind and stick with it if there's some live component even better but the main thing is that we practice these skills otherwise there's no especially kettlebells you know or any of these olympic movements bulgarian bags you have to get your

hands on the equipment put put on the reps, and just put in the work and just know that it ain't going to happen overnight. And that's why, even working with Paul, I chose, like, I want to work with him until, and I could still learn so much from him, but I felt very good, and he gave me his blessing after two and a half years. He goes, dude, you're ready to write your own program or work with other coaches, and you're ready. So that's what it was like.

That's a huge blessing. Where can people find you? So best place to find me is on Instagram, mike.selemi. I've got a website, www.mikeselemi.io, that I'm currently building up. But Instagram is the best place to find me. And if there's any questions, educational material, anything, I'm always down, always willing to share as much as I can with people. Very cool.

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Go to strongcoffeecompany.com. Doug Larson. And it mixes incredibly well. It does. It does. You can follow me on Instagram at Douglas E. Larson. Come and find me at Anders Varner. Even more important, get into the Shrug Collective

at Shrug Collective on all the things. Like, subscribe, find us on iTunes, leave a nice comment, tell Mike Salemi he's a gangster. I would like to thank you a lot. I really, really, really enjoy being around people that are really experts in all kinds of fields, like living somewhere in between practitioner, strength coach, and experimenting in everything they do

because you're able to take all the principles and combine them into something that is truly Mike Salemi. And I really appreciate you being here. It was very cool. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you guys so much. Thank you. Shrug family, hope you enjoyed that one.

I just want to remind you of all the cool things happening around here we're going to be at the Granite Games in Minnesota coming up early September at the end of September we're going to be in Tahoe at the Spartan World Championships hanging out with the FitAid kids make sure you get over to the

ShrugCollective.com backslash vault we've got 12 programs in there. All your strength, conditioning, mobility, and nutrition needs. Also, get over to omaxcbd.com forward slash shrugged. I think I did the backslash thing again in the mid-roll. What an idiot. omaxcbd., forward slash shrugged. Save 50% on one month's supply of CBD, fish oil combo, stress relief.

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We'll see you guys on Saturday.