Barbell Shrugged - Breaking Mr. Olympia w/ 7x Mr. Olympia Winner Phil Heath, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Travis Mash, and Dan Garner #740

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Phil Heath is a renowned American bodybuilder. He gained widespread recognition in the world of professional bodybuilding, particularly for his impressive physique and numerous accolades. Heath's journey into bodybuilding began during his college years at the University of Denver, where he initially pursued basketball. However, he soon redirected his focus towards bodybuilding and started competing in NPC (National Physique Committee) competitions. In 2005, Heath won the NPC USA Championships, earning his IFBB (International Federation of Bodybuilding and Fitness) Pro Card, which allowed him to compete at the professional level. He quickly rose through the ranks, showcasing his remarkable genetics, dedication, and work ethic. Heath's competitive career reached its pinnacle when he won the prestigious Mr. Olympia title for the first time in 2011, succeeding bodybuilding legend Jay Cutler. Phil Heath went on to dominate the bodybuilding scene, securing a total of seven Mr. Olympia titles between 2011 and 2017. His reign solidified his status as one of the greatest bodybuilders of his generation. Known for his dense muscle mass, symmetrical proportions, and attention to detail, Heath's physique set a high standard in the sport. Universal Pictures Content Group (UPCG) will release Breaking Olympia: The Phil Heath Story, from director Brett Harvey, on VOD from March 26, 2024. The revelatory documentary unveils the extraordinary life story of the 7-time Mr. Olympia champion, as he rises through the ranks and battles both the top bodybuilders and the scrutiny of the media, in his attempt to cement his legacy and become the greatest Mr. Olympia champion to ever walk the earth. The trailer for Breaking Olympia can be found here. The documentary is the definitive, never-before-told told story of Phil Heath – perhaps the greatest bodybuilder of all time. Featuring interviews with Dwayne Johnson, Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, Kai Greene, Brandon Curry, Dexter Jackson, and many more, Breaking Olympia tracks the pivotal point in Heath’s career when, despite being plagued by injuries that come with 18 years of physical and mental sacrifice, Heath stands on the edge of altering the face of bodybuilding history. Phil Heath on Instagram Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram Dan Garner of Instagram

Shrugged Family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, Phil Heath is coming on the show seven times as an Olympia winner. That means he's tied Arnold Schwarzenegger for the most jacked human being on this planet. Because Arnold won it seven times, he's won it seven times. You could consider him one of the greatest of all time, which is a very cool thing. Super cool conversation. I've watched many documentaries on Phil Heath. He has a brand new one coming out this week called Breaking Olympia. Kind of like tracking his rise, his seven wins, going for number eight, some injuries, some setbacks. And really enjoyed this conversation. And really, I'll watch any documentary in which lifting weights, awesome montages, and a good story about a meathead,

like I'll watch people like eat lots of food and be entertained. So if you like watching meathead documentaries, this is a phenomenal one to dig into. As always, friends, make sure you get over to rapidhealthreport.com. That is where Dr. Andy Galbitt and Dan Garner are doing a free lab style, lab lifestyle and performance analysis. You can access that free report over at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Bash, Dan Garner.

After a big win this weekend. Bill Heath. I can't believe we have a seven-time Mr. Olympia on the show today. This is fantastic. You got a brand-new documentary coming out, March 26th show today. This is fantastic. You got a brand new documentary coming out March 26. Yeah. I enjoy it. If there's a single person on this earth that will watch countless hours of meatheads lifting weights with good music in the background, sign me up. I'm your huckleberry. Dude, I want to start off though. There's one moment in the show or in the movie

when you are transitioning from basketball to bodybuilding. And there's a picture of you when you're like 22, 21 with your shirt off. And I go, well, that guy hasn't even started yet. And he's going to be Mr. Olympia for sure. You are like super jacked at that age. Did you find bodybuilding in the, in the transition or had lifting weights been part of your like basketball career as well? Bodybuilding pretty much found me, you know, growing up in Seattle, Washington, playing hoops,

then getting that division one scholarship at the university of Denver, playing all four years. And then when you're talking about that photo um that pretty much came from me being into a uh i was in the it class sitting next to another guy and um you know he had ronnie coleman on his laptop i had brooke burke on my laptop i'm like what's that about yeah what's What's going on? If you look like Ronnie Coleman, you get Brooke Burke. See, there you go. Sounds like math to me. So I'm thinking, well, let me go ahead and learn more about this sport. Went to a couple of shows and then just said, well, what's the worst thing that can happen by competing at a bodybuilding show?

I get ripped, you know, during the summertime. So I ended up doing that. And, man, my whole life changed, you know, like being able to see my body transform. But yeah, in college, I was always that guy that was, you know, looking like a bodybuilder, but never really did. You know, all we did in college was see, I'm looking at your bumper plates in the background. I'm looking at, you know, power clean, hang clean, overhead squats, you know, stuff like that. It was really more about those lifts, 45 degree lunges, you know, RDLs, a little bit of bench. But, you know, there was no curls, no, you know, side lateral raises, nothing like

that playing hoop. So I did have an introduction into college, you know, with weightlifting, but it was more like you know functional strength training power lifting and stuff like that which definitely helped out with the uh the vertical you know i was already i was already able to dunk you know in high school and then it you know it actually got me believe it or not i tested in as a freshman at 30 uh 33 inches and i tested in as a junior no, tested out as a junior going into senior year at a 40 inch standstill. So lifting weights really did help, you know, with my athletic ability. Yeah. I think the first time I saw you or learned that you played basketball was in one of the

previous documentaries, like the generation iron ones yeah and you looked good shooting a basketball and i went that doesn't make any sense a man that size should not have that clean of a shot uh i'm actually super curious transitioning from being d1 to basketball player you're a badass top one percent athlete in the world playing college basketball like very few people are able to do that. And then going and standing on stage in that little amount of clothing and flexing in front of people, there's gotta be kind of a, an ego check and then a rebuilding the ego to be able to stand up there and own a crowd of that size. I'd love to hear a little bit about

that process because I've never done it before. So I can imagine the first time you walk out, you go, Whoa, this is different. Man, I was freaking terrified. I was terrified, man. You know, I was actually, while you're saying this, I was looking at Travis. He was like, man. And I tell you you what it was just like that brother like you know everybody can flex in the mirror and do all that cool stuff and you know there was really no tutorial on like how to have stage presence you literally have to train and you know put yourself out there and what's wild is that you're at your most vulnerable state. And then you go into an extremely vulnerable state, meaning you're already vulnerable as hell. Like you're dieting, you know, you're depleted.

You're just not feeling right. And, you know, going from basketball, not having those, you know, when you're running all the time and not having a whole lot of water breaks and stuff like that starts playing with your mind. In bodybuilding, you know, you have to deplete the water and stuff like that starts playing with your mind um in bodybuilding you know you have to deplete the water and stuff like that and still train so that didn't really bother me that much the problem was the eating you know while you're depleted um the depletion of water understanding that you know the the chemistry just within the body and then man i gotta put on this fucking tan spraying you down right in my first show man we didn't have money for all that like we were just like let's go ahead and get a bottle of little uh pro tan and then they had like this little brush that went with it it was literally like a small little painter's brush type it was rough as hell

and it literally like cuts you because you's brush type it was rough as hell and it literally like cuts you because you're not doing it right so then you're looking at like do i get like a painter's roller like so imagine i'm in the basement of my college house because i'm still the basketball team and the guys are coming home from practice and they're like what what the hell is he doing down in the basement and i'm rolling my stuff and i'm like hey can you hit my back real quick they're like they're like pause bro like we're not doing this that's a wrap right there pick this man out of the house yeah let's get him out of here and then um but yeah that day of the show i was like i said i was terrified because

you know you're you're extremely vulnerable. You really can't bring a mirror onto that stage. So you can't really know what you look like right away. So you kind of have to go by feel. And obviously the practice that I didn't have because I wasn't doing it very long, you know, it made it very, very difficult. But I was able to win. Needless to say, I was able to win, which was dope. People were laughing when I walked out on stage and I didn't know what the hell they were laughing at. I thought they were laughing at me. So your insecurities are like, you were like,

they're laughing at my ass. Man, this is so stupid. I, I shouldn't have done this. Like, this is so dumb. And then they're telling you, you know, front double bicep. They're telling you all these other movements. So you just got to keep moving. And then I realized, man, they're laughing at the other dude. Yeah, right. I done whooped his ass, you know what I mean? You know, you start coming into your own a little bit,

and there was a lady in the audience that was screaming. She was like, smile, you're beautiful, because she could tell like how tense I was. And I was not having out there at all. It was it was wild, brother. But I tell a little anxious you still you know it takes a while to get over that stage fright you know dan i know you work with fighters and stuff so it's kind of like you know i've seen i've gone to ufc fights where a guy will you can see in their eyes before they walk out like man this may not be good man he done did this a thousand times in his head but he he done he done he done effed it up right here. So you got to be locked in. But every time, you know, you're jumping up and down and you're dealing with a lot of false bravado, I would say. So you have to try to control that.

And it's tough, man. Even as I'm talking about it, I'm like, man, like, you know but i i have to remind myself or i would remind myself that as you're going through that you are alive you're alive man and you you have made it like no matter what happens you've made it here now give them a show yeah initially it was very nerve-wracking but then eventually especially after you started winning you got more comfortable with it did it eventually turn into like the most fun thing you could do, being on that stage? Especially when you're winning and everyone's fucking cheering for you. Did that eventually turn into the exact opposite of an anxiety-ridden thing?

Eventually this phenomenally exciting, enjoyable experience? There was excitement for each win, whether it be amateur or pro, they all meant something different, right? But you're always dealing with some battle inside. You're always dealing with some turmoil. Like for me, it was always something like it could have been, you know, a bad relationship. It could be, you know, someone died. It could be bad business. You know, there's always something. So it's just I didn't really have like a big brother to be like, hey, man, you're going to go through this, this, this. It's not like God said, like, hey, listen, you're going to go through all this crap, but you're going to be OK. You just got to keep it together. Right.

This stuff's going to hit you really hard. OK. You know, mouth like really hard and you're going to get embarrassed. But no, I mean, I enjoyed all of them. But as soon as you're, you know, having your hand held in victory, I was already thinking about the next one. So there was times where I would be like a victory party. And I'm already looking at my coach like, man, we should have did this.

We should have did this. We should have did this. And he's like, I know. And then everybody's like, guys, you should be celebrating. I'm like, yeah, whatever. You know, you kind of look at it like, I mean. But then there were times where I would say there were some wins that were very memorable. I remember obviously winning my pro card.

That was huge. When I was 2005 Mr. USA, I was my pro card. That was huge. When I was 2005 Mr. USA, I was like, man, this is dope. Winning my pro debut. That was awesome because it was in my, I would say, my second hometown of Denver, Colorado. So that was dope. And then, of course, your first Olympia win. And I would say that one was wild because you're going through, you know, every why in the road, like in your mind, like it's like flashbacks, like all these synapses,

like you went through this, you went through this, you were told that you were nothing. She told you were nothing. You had no money. You had money. You had nothing. And it was just like, and then you had something and your life, everything. Yeah. Shark family, I want to take a quick break. If you are enjoying today's conversation, I want to invite you to come over to rapidhealthreport.com. When you get to rapidhealthreport.com, you will see an area for you to opt in, in which you can see Dan Garner read through my lab work. Now, you know that we've

been working at Rapid Health Optimization on programs for optimizing health. Now, what does that actually mean? It means in three parts, we're going to be doing a ton of deep dive into your labs. That means the inside out approach. So we're not going to be guessing your macros. We're not going to be guessing the total calories that you need. We're actually going to be guessing your macros. We're not going to be guessing the total calories that you need. We're actually going to be doing all the work to uncover everything that you have going on inside you. Nutrition, supplementation, sleep. And then we're going to go through and analyze your lifestyle. Dr. Andy Galpin is going to build out a lifestyle protocol based on the severity of your concerns. And then we're going to also build out all the programs that go into that based on the most severe things first.

This truly is a world-class program. And we invite you to see step one of this process by going over to rapidhealthreport.com. You can see Dan reading my labs, the nutrition and supplementation that he has recommended that has radically shifted the way that I sleep, the energy that I have during the day, my total testosterone level, and it's my ability to trust and have confidence in my health going forward. I really, really hope that you're able to go over to rapidhealthreport.com, watch the video of my labs, and see what is possible. And if it is something that you are interested in, please schedule a call with me on that page. Once again, it's rapidhealthreport.com, and let's get back to the show. I was just curious about rivalries in bodybuilding

like you and Jay Cutler. And like, is it serious? Are you guys really like, you know, because like then the day you can't beat him up, you can't outscore him. It's just like, you're going by what this, these guys in front of you think. Like, what is it like? Do you really, like, you know, think about him when you're training? Or what is it like? You know, the cool thing about Jay and I was that when I did my first amateur show, he was the guest poser at it. So he was, like, my first, like, image, you know, physical image. I was like, holy crap. That's a heck of an image yeah yeah you know you're you're going up to this guy and i'm like how much do you weigh and he's like 290

and i'm like yeah fuck you man i weigh 190 but uh we we were able to establish a really good friendship so i believe that made it difficult to compete against each other. I guess it would be like two fighters coming out of the same camp and be like, man, I mean, we got to get it on. So there's got to be some honor and respect going on. I wasn't like that with everybody else. You know, one of the guys that I competed against a lot was Kai green and he was out of

New York and he just brought that that fire you know that you know i'm from the west coast he's from the east and it was just like two worlds collided and yeah no we did not like each other and it was more like our camp our camps didn't like each other our fans didn't like each other and it became something where like you know when you're in high school or grade school you know lunchtime someone someone's talking trash and it's not even from that person. So by the end of the day, you're like getting ready to fight some dude and you don't even know why you have to do it. You know, so, you know, we kind of had that going on. But no, you can't. You have to do your best as to not steal your own joy by comparing yourself to somebody else all the time. I think, you know, that's something that I had to learn. But I was always able to also keep a narrow focus and say, Phil, what do you look like right now? What can you control right now? Because it isn't fighting. It isn't anything like that. There is like a way of imposing your own will on someone by doing the work. So then when they see you in the i did you know i thought i was the man you know but you know kai and i i know for a fact i mean we we did not like each other

um if he walked in this house right now i'd probably man like he and i'd probably be scrapping wow we're just but you know it's funny because like we're friends but like we're frenemies like we're just it's just some things you just can't explain. I guess it's like Red Sox, Yankees or, you know, Colorado abs and you know, the red wings, you know, like, like real, like let's DC and John Jones, like, like, you know, like you ain't going to kick it with these dudes for that long. Like you just, just something's about to pop up.

Yeah. kick it with these dudes for that long like you just just something's about to pop up yeah yes i mean would you guys argue in the back room i mean or is it just this energy or vibe where you can it's just a vibe bro like it's um because there really is no talk like what's someone gonna say like i'm gonna whoop your ass on this stage it's like you guys almost got there that's true it almost that's exactly what almost happened well that oh let's hear this yeah that was um so 20 okay so by by 2013 okay generation aaron came out came out in 2013 with the best line ever right hard work beats talent until talent works hard. There you go. That was a nail in the coffin right there. Yeah, but they say that, you know, like, hard work beats talent when talent don't work hard. I said, well, talent works hard is fucking over.

You know, like, and that's just the truth, right? So he had, like, a lot of, you know, angst, you know, getting ready for 2014. And, you know, those press conferences, you know, angst, you know, getting ready for 2014. And, you know, those press conferences, you know, you would think that bodybuilders would just be like, yeah, you know, I'm just here to be, you know, here to go up on stage. I ate all the chicken breasts. I did all the cardio, blah, blah, blah. There's some people that are like, nah, man, I don't like him. I want to beat him. I'm here to win.

Screw this. And he brought that energy on stage and you know when you're doing these poses and whatnot and you're able to see it like and feel it in breaking olympia you know we're like moving each other around a little bit so when they stand you next to each other you're in each other's space and i remember you, you're jockeying for a position in certain poses, right? Because you know that the judges are there, but also this thing called the internet is there. So if you got two guys that are rivals this far apart from each other,

that frame don't look right. You want to be as close as possible. So then, you know, I'm not saying that the judges don't go back to their hotel rooms and watch the, the, the Instagram or the Facebook. you know i'm not saying that the judges don't go back to their hotel rooms and watch the the instagram or the facebook you just never know human right you just never know so let's just do that so when i'm hitting a side shot and he's like nudging up i mean this fool threw his hair on me he wears oh yeah so i'm like what the hell is going on here this is a little this is a little strange and then he has something to say and then i had something to say back and i and i think

right then and there he realized the bully is now getting bullied because i'm not here for that bullshit but then i realized too and i think he did also, man, we're too old up, black dudes on a fucking stage with these posing trunks. This don't look right. What are we about to do here? Like, really, what are we about to do here? Nothing good can happen. This isn't good.

And what's funny, guys, is when that happened, I think we both realized we got to calm the hell down. This isn't good. when that happened, I think we both realized we got to calm the hell down. Yeah, we got to calm down. This isn't good.

And then the body, and then the body, here's the craziest part. The body needed to calm down. The body went from this huge adrenaline rush to an adrenaline dump, which in our sport,

you cannot have. We're holding a water in our sport, you cannot have. We're holding a water in our body after this. And luckily, he and I were so good to separate ourselves from third, fourth, and fifth that someone else didn't come up and snatch that title because our bodies were not good. It was not crying at that moment. So, you know, you learn stuff even in the sport of bodybuilding, like you got to really have a controlled aggression with everything you do. You got to be zenned out. You have to be just within yourself at all times.

Yeah, man, that that hadn't happened again in my career as far as like someone like running their mouth or like doing something i've heard plenty of stories where people would you know like take water and throw it on someone's back or something like that because it has like a streak of their tanning coming right off and what they can't do anything um you know you saw the old pump and iron uh movie where they took the dude's t-shirt, you know, that he was in. I mean, there's always someone willing to go there, but that is the extent of it, right? I have not seen any pros really get after it. There's been some pros on tour I've seen like you know talk a little trash like um after the

show but nothing like where we got to break them up and they ain't they ain't get hurt like that most of them can't fight anyway so they ain't none of them really got any hands there you go they're just gonna tear a bicep. You know, like, I'm not saying that, you know, wimp. I'm not saying that at all because I know a lot of people be like, oh, man, those muscles don't make you tough. And I'm like, hmm, have you ever got to get there somehow? With one hand. All right. Dan, you should teach some of us how to do some do some things

don't actually don't because we all be in jail like we all i did well a huge part like a big correlation between um uh the fighting world and bodybuilding and i guess suppose sports in general is a lot of it comes down to mindset. You do have to deplete yourself just like in fight camp. You are depleting yourself for an extended period of time in order to make a weight class, but you still have to train hard and you still need to work on the weaknesses that you have so that you can tie those up so you can enter the octagon a lot more confident version of yourself. Just like in bodybuilding, you do want to assess your competition. You do want to objectively assess your own physique so that you a lot more confident version of yourself just like in bodybuilding you do want to assess your competition you do want to objectively assess your own physique so that you can become more confident and present your physique on stage the way that you want to because

that energy matters now you were one of the first bodybuilders really the first where like social media started to really take over i've been following bodybuilding for like over 20 years it was like Jay and Ronnie's feud is what I love. And then your and Kai's feud is what I loved right after that. Those were two beautiful back to back feuds. But a big part of mindset and social media taking over is people analyzing your physique that aren't professional judges. Now, it's been so rare in my entire time, being a fan of bodybuilding that somebody was able to turn their weakness into one of their strongest weapons. And there's no better

example of that than when you had a critique regarding your back and then you came back and made it one of your most powerful weapons of all time. What did you what was like the biggest thing that you were able to do to bring up your back? And then what did that do for your confidence on stage? No, thanks. I recognize the fact that number one, I turned pro very quick. And when you turn pro, I believe that it's all about like, one strength, like if a guy has great, great legs, you know, great back or great chest, it may just be one body part, right? They're going to get the pro card.

When you're winning pro shows, it's the one that has the least amount of weaknesses. So I think what they were doing is they were pointing out, you know, an obvious thing where they're saying, well, oh, oh he's great but he doesn't have this type of back and i just looked at it as did you guys not realize i was playing hoops before this you guys been training for bodybuilding since you're 13 like and then for me i had to really stay disciplined because you know when you're hearing this, especially in social media, because it was like magazines and then magazines and then social media. So we're like right here. So you're getting hit in print. You're getting hit online.

And I just looked at it as a big challenge. I was like, they don't really know who they're talking about. Let me just go ahead and do my job. And is it true? I think sometimes, you know, especially with athletes, like we get very insecure, which I think can be a great problem, but also a great strength because it keeps us on our toes and it keeps us humble. And I say, well, even if it's an armchair quarterback, if he's saying something that is 70% real, then it's real you know like hey you know so i just went ahead went to that gym i was training back twice a week because i

felt like more frequency the better um i'm not a guy that's going to deadlift 800 pounds nor did i feel like it was necessary i wanted to be be able to, you know, stay healthy throughout. And I felt like it just worked out that way where the high volume and me training by myself really played a key role in all of that. And then next thing you know, I'm realizing, wait a minute, it's working. Can I get a little heavier? Okay, just a little bit, just a little bit. It was just building momentum like a locomotive. It's just before you know it, I'm running through these guys. And the confidence definitely came, I would say, more 2008

because the year 2007, I did my first honor classic. I placed fifth. And then that following year, I just, I was like relentless. I just said, you know, I'm, I'm in this gym day in and day out. I was doing two a days. I was doing whatever it took. I was doing like more unconventional methods. Like people would say, you're doing two a day workouts.

I'm like, yeah, I'm going to the gym, hitting back twice a week, a.m. and p.m. sessions. I'm just trying to kill this thing. They're saying, well, you know, overtraining and this. Now I'm like. Overtraining got me seven sandals on me like it worked for me. So, yeah, I mean, that's what bodybuilding really is, is being able to take that critique, ask yourself how real it is. Don't have delusion. I think a lot of people have delusion, especially with social media, because you've got your fan base, you've got your crew, everybody rooting you on. You've got to have some level of discernment and be like, wait a minute.

Let's look at the game tape. I'm not perfect. Is it real? What can I do to solve it myself? Then I can be coachable. But if you ain't in reality, you ain't going to listen to a damn thing your coach saying.

You're not going to listen to a damn thing. You're a nutritionist, nothing. So it really became a level of mental toughness that I was able to always exhibit. And look, I would always tell myself, like, if you were to make this a strength, then they can't say nothing else. Now they're going to nitpick something else. And they only pick the best and all sports. We all see it. You know, we always see it like there it's hard for someone to say he's perfect or she's perfect, but we're in that pursuit of perfection and bodybuilding and other things as well. So you got to deal with the criticism. You always have to just be mindful that when you're average, people kind of pat you on the back more because they don't expect a whole lot.

Everybody's like, oh, yeah, keep going. They're not telling you that when you're the best or when they see you on the back more because they don't expect a whole lot you know what i'm saying like everybody's like oh yeah keep going this and that they're not telling you that when you're the best or when they see you on that ascension so yeah the back was something and uh i'm very i'm very happy that i grew that back the way i did because i was being outweighed by like 30 to sometimes 50 pounds by other competitors. And yeah, that illusion on that stage that I needed because of the tight waist and the roundness. So that's something that I can carry with me, you know, because they do these, you know, everybody's going to do a comparison of eras and stuff like that, which is dope. But if I hadn't done the work on that back, oh, man, I wouldn't be in that conversation at all. you know, everybody's going to do a comparison of eras and stuff like that, which is dope. But if I hadn't done the work on that back, oh man, I wouldn't be in that conversation at all,

at all. Yeah. Your back, the transformation of your back was one of the most wild things in bodybuilding history, man. And you, you being able to stand beside someone like who's say 280 dry, 275 dry, and you still look bubblier and rounder in the shape. It didn't matter because you were able to add weight without losing any type of structure or aesthetics or anything along the way. But sometimes like when you are that good at something, is there a tendency toward judges not always just looking on stage and looking just at what they see? Or do they also have a tendency to compare you to like 2011? Like say, like, do they have that natural inclination to not just objectively look at someone what's there right now? Or do they always say, well, it's not the same as this year? Does that happen? Absolutely. I think it happens repeatedly. It's just human nature. And I think that takes a lot of discipline out of the, you know, with the judges, you know, right? Like they have to be extremely disciplined to just be like, okay, I didn't see this. I know this existed in 2011, 2012, 2013, but this is what I see right now. And I'm able to adjudicate this person from what is appearing on that stage today.

Look, I was just thinking, man, I still adjudicate myself the first time I had sex. That was terrible. That was horrible. and then you think like that one time we all hey guys we all know that one time we were like the champion of champions but what does that do it makes you feel like you haven't done anything so you so yeah for the you know i know it's a weird you know turn but it's just something where you look at a Ferrari and stuff and, yeah, it's still a Ferrari, man. It's still dope. And especially when you're next to a Honda Civic, especially when you're next to even a BMW or Mercedes, it's still a Ferrari, man. What are we talking about?

So that just pushes you further. And for me, I was able to to really look at how this is something I don't know if I said this before, but I was able to look at guys like Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler and see how the judges to really look at that and be like, okay, so they over here judging Ronnie based off of 99 or 98 or 01 Arnold, this and that. They ain't really judging what I'm seeing right here. You know what I'm saying? And same with Jay. They did the same thing to him. And it's tough. It's tough on everyone, man.

It's tough on the judges. It's tough on the athletes. But as an athlete, you have to expect them to raise the bar. So your job is to raise the bar even higher so that you already have achieved something that they haven't even thought about yet. So that's how I train. That's how I always try to go into a show of thinking, if they're expecting 2011, well, I'm not going to give them 2011.

I'm going to get a better version, and that's 2012. And then 2013 was a version of the dryness, you know, the crisp, you know, muscle, the separation of 11, but with the density of 2012, that's when you got 2013. We like, you know, did the freaking bragging ball fusion shit. You know, we did that. And then there was years of who i knew i was going to go against as a front runner and and realize like okay it's a two-day

comp i knew i was able to present more than one package on friday and then on saturday so they didn't know who they were going against and it kind of kept the judges on their toes too so it's kind of like fighters like okay you could you could take away one guy's jab or his grappling and stuff but he still finds a way to go do this this guy normally fights southpaw and he's able to move and switch and do everything he's got to do to get the dub um that's how i how i prepped i knew all the competition i knew their strengths i knew their weaknesses weaknesses. I trained for it. And then I knew like, okay, I might want to come in a little tighter on Friday because this joker always comes in soft on Friday. And then on Saturday, he's going to try to like, you know, reverse. He's going to try to come in even bigger. I'm not going to be bigger, you know, that one year I'm going to make him

think that I'm going to eat up because I came in, you know, too hard. So then I actually on scale, they'll say, what are you going to weigh tomorrow? I'm like, I don't know. And then they ask you again, what are you going to weigh? What are you weighing right now? I'm like three pounds less than yesterday. And someone tells him like, oh man, it feels, it feels going to be smaller. And in fact, all that did was just make me look bigger because now you can see more of the definition. So a lot of these things just it's a it's a mess, dude. And your job is just to stay calm. But yet in that controlled aggression environment, you know, and obviously have fun, right? Like you do not want to go on that stage like unhappy.

You want to be in gratitude for, you know, first of all, thanking your body for getting yourself through the damn prep, you know, being healthy. And then also just realizing then in 10, 20, 30 years, you know, you would hope to, to be proud of your accomplishment. Yeah. Go ahead and finish up. I was just going to kind of end like that kind of same thing towards that mindset in coming back. That comeback that you had, you didn't necessarily have like a chai there anymore to feud against and stay fired up against and strategize against it.

So the comeback was essentially almost you still needing to be the 2011, 2012, 2013 version of yourself. When you did that, were you essentially training by yourself, purely trying to beat yourself within this comeback? Was that your primary fuel source? Or did you feel as motivated in that comeback, not having an enemy to go against yeah i would say once kai is um once he was no longer going at the olympia i think that was after 2014 yeah i think there was almost like some hollow victories like where i felt like man like it was fun um so i had to make it make make sense you know like start looking at the other guys. But then, you know, going for the comeback, it was more time to say, you know what? I'm just going to do

this for me. I got to do this one. Like this one, I got to do it for myself because we're going through COVID. We got restrictions. I'm training in a gym where I ain't supposed to be there. I'm walking around with my iPhone light. Like, yeah, you know, it's like crazy. It's like 10 PM at night. It's pitch black. I can't't turn on the lights can you imagine like how stupid that shit was i couldn't even in an empty ass gym i'm about to go ahead and just infect the world you know so you know and and yeah those i swear like those those damn officials and those damn sheriffs and cops that they they would tap on the glass and they were like, you got to leave. And I'm like, it's just me.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So I would say COVID kind of became my antagonist. I was like, man, like I really have to because I chose to compete during COVID. So it was one of those things where you can't bitch, you can't moan. You just have to say, you know what? This is my adversary. This is going to teach me how bad I do. I really want it. You know, when I mentioned like training in the, you know, freaking dark.

That just makes for a better story, in my opinion. So it let me realize, like, if you're willing to go through this, that means that the Olympia means everything to you. That means competing means everything to you. That means competing means everything to you. That means, you know, being able to go on stage, win, lose, or draw, like the fans being able

to see you again. That means something. So you had to go through something different. So yeah, you're right. I feel like God was just like, all right, I ain't got no collie green for you,

but I can throw coke at you. You're going gonna train for the olympia during this time and yeah the the cops they ain't gonna want you to train in here but you're gonna do it you're gonna find a way and i really embraced all of it with a smile and just like you know like that like that i don't know it's like an angry chuckle you're just like hey but you know the the the olympia you know like the, the, the Olympia, you know, like it's, it's the greatest show in the world. So it requires you to be great. And I'm just glad that I, I was able to do it without having to have a certain person like in mind, because I always

knew that as long as I was peaked, I would win. But obviously that didn't happen. That was one of the rare misses of my career. But all in all with that, I was actually cool with it because I knew that I went through a ton of adversity. And I never wanted to give myself a pat on the back for moral victories. But for this one, I was like, look, man, like you went through a lot. Like you went through, you know, two hernia surgeries, 26, 27 month layoff from competition. You were going to retire. But I decided to, you know, get my battle armor on. And not everybody wants to do that, you know, especially with social media. Right. Like it would have been easy for me after number seven. I had people telling me after number seven, hey, you can retire. Just go ahead and do movies, do other things, you know, go out on top. And it's like and this is, you know, right after I had my first hernia surgery, right after I won number seven.

And a week later, I had to go to Ohio, get get that done. And I was like like that's not what champions do champions keep going like champions die on their sword in every film you know like in every film like gladiator 300 like stuff like that you you go out there you don't just punk out like that just because it sounds cool and i just i'm i'm even as I speak about it, I'm glad. I have no regrets with that decision. I'm glad that I did it because I would be sitting back with seven thinking, damn, I should at least try to get eight.

And then seeing Ronnie Coleman and Lee Haney and them kind of looking at me like, man, you big wimp. Like, you should at least try it, bro. You know, you big wimp. Like you should at least try it. You know what I'm saying? Like you should at least. So did you, did you know kind of after number one, that there was going to be like the Phil Heath era in bodybuilding, um, coming after Coleman and Cutler. And then all of a sudden there's this, there's this void.

Did you know after number one, like you still had a long ways to go to be at your best and that this thing was just getting started yeah I knew that there was a big high possibility that I would go after the record um because I was so young winning it and just the way that I beat these guys it wasn't like I barely did it. Um, the, the, the wildest part was, you know, I won the Olympia in 2011 and we had to, we all like the top seven guys, we all flew to India the week later to compete again. And I was like, if I can handle that, because that's a lot of stress on the body and, and, and these guys are veterans. So they know how to travel, you know, overseas and compete from week to week then i then i'll make a run um it wasn't until that third i'd say that third mr olympia title

in 2013 when i literally did one call out which was like unheard of um they bring me out there like phil go back in line that's a first, like seven second knockout. Like, that's what that is. That's when I was like, you know what? I'm going to win 10 of these motherfuckers and you guys can't say nothing about it. And then that's when a lot of people were like, oh, he think he all that. So that's when like the media, they just ate it up. And I'm just, is it real or is it fake?

I mean, is it, do i have the potential or not and at that point i had to realize that once you declare something out loud to the general public be ready for the scrutiny be ready for the criticism be ready for people to misunderstand you and remind yourself that it doesn't matter what they think as long as i put in the work um they're not the best in the world. They don't know what it took. They're not even the best trash man, the best salesman of their company. Who would tell you what to do? So you just have to be the best you can be. And then barring any injury, you're going to achieve all that. Yeah. How did you handle that nickname? I feel like as a

professional athlete, someone starts calling you the gift. They're not calling you like the hard work, the grind. Like they're just saying you were born this way and welcome to the stage. And here's like that's got to maybe not sting, but it almost puts this path in front of you where like they're not talking about how hard you work at 10 o'clock at night in the dark. They're talking about you were just born this way. Of course, you're going to win seven of these. Did that eat at you when you were younger? It did because it wasn't, it was given to me by an old roommate that's from Cyprus, from Greece. And he had a totally different definition for the gift. He was like, the gift is your ability, not just with the muscles, but the fact that you know how to speak and you're able to, you know, connect with people on a different level that people normally don't see in bodybuilders.

Like when we start this conversation, talk about meatheads and this and that, it's like, yeah, Phil got some meat on his bones, but he't no meathead you know i'm saying like he he has a brain you know like he knows how to communicate he knows how to defeat all these negative stereotypes and that's what he was saying and then i remember telling him i was like andreas ain't nobody gonna think of that shit like you're just too philosophical with this they're gonna think they're gonna think exactly what you just said bro so yeah like when i started you know calling myself that you know people just can't you know it's just something that makes people feel uncomfortable but then as i you know went around and i do even now i do you know seminars and motivational speaking i tell people we all have a gift we all have one yeah and every superhero film that person is like walking around and then

someone sees that gift within them and then they have to see it then they have to you know work at it they have to defeat themselves and then they get to show it and you know that was my thing of saying like yeah i'm the gift yeah so are you, you're just probably stuck in your own way, you know, worried about what other people have to say about you. You know, you're, you're unwilling to, you know, really declare what you want in this world when it's right there in front of you, because you're, you're afraid of this joker over here. Who's a punk is going to talk shit about you. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I remember, you know, it's like being a kid, like you don't want to sit in the front of the class and answer all the questions,

even though you're smarter because you're afraid to get made fun of. Why? Because you're smart? That's stupid. Like that doesn't make any sense. You're worried about what other people have to say when you're really the man. So then be the man. So I was like, I'll roll with it. And if that makes them feel bad, then take the title from me. Like, you know, do something about it. And very few people were able to say that. And I'm very happy about it. But yeah, I was able to, I was, it was very rare where I could take a nickname and then like twist it, like turn it around to allow them to see themselves and then ask them, are you answering that call to greatness? Are you answering that call right now?

Because right now it looks like your gift is being unutilized, and here's the best part. We all know when their gift is being underutilized, and then someone else gets the win. Someone else gets the dub. That's the worst. Someone that you know good and damn well, you were, man, I was supposed damn well you were man i was supposed to

get that job i was supposed to man shit i was supposed to get the girl i just i just didn't ask her you know like all those things i was supposed to man i was really supposed to beat this dude's ass and and i went in there just yeah man it's a it's an opportunity and we and we act like in this world like it's going to keep coming it's like nah you have the skill set you have everything but you you need the timing and you gotta seize it when it's available yeah did you struggle at all uh coming from a basketball background being on a team sport to kind of um bodybuilding it's you on a stage you got to go build the team around you where everyone's

eyeballs are pointed right at you. Did you struggle with that transition from like the team sport aspect where your role on that team is to help the unit and then going into bodybuilding where now you got to go build a unit where everybody's focused solely on you from, and I know you had kind of the same trainer the wife did a ton of help like but was that a was that shifting that mindset from me for the team from to the team now everyone has to be focused on me I think yes and no like you know growing up as an only child I mean you realize like you got to get yourself up in the morning to go to school. You got to do everything. You know, both my parents worked. So, and then they both sometimes work night shifts. So like, you know, you didn't really have, you know, people to like help you all the time. You had

to help yourself. You had to, you know, you know, make your own meals. You had to still do your own chores. And, you know, anyone that's raised as an only child, like if the dishes ain't done, there ain't no one else to blame. You know, so you have to be a go getter. Everything you do. Good thing is that you also get to take the credit playing on a team sport. Yeah, you're responsible to know when the place, especially being a guard. You have to know everybody's strengths and weaknesses, where they need to be out on the floor. I didn't play a whole lot in college, but I do know the game enough to say like, yeah, I'm responsible. Like if I'm in that game, I'm responsible for everyone, you know, you know, scoring rebound, like playing defense. Like I got to know everything that coach knows.

The best part is with bodybuilding is that coming from a basketball background, knowing how to communicate, you have to communicate with your team. You know, I think a lot of athletes athletes they become very introverted and stuff and for me i was like i was like that a little bit but then i feel like once you know what the hell you're supposed to be doing then you can pull your you know your girl to the side and say hey listen and i didn't get this right the first time that's why i'm married twice so like you you you pull them aside and say hey look like this is this is what i do um these are the meals that, like this is what I do. These are the meals that I have. This is how I'm going to act probably.

I'm going to try to be mindful of my emotions during these stressful moments. This is my travel schedule. It's tough. Like it's grueling. But this is where I feel like you could help. You know, you could, you know, if I'm coming home from a long trip, can you have a meal for me? I'll try not to be a pig, but I ain't going to lie, I kind of like that. Can you help me with my laundry?

But more importantly, grabbing my core nucleus of friends and getting them on board. Hey, we're like 30 days out. The last thing I ever need from any of you guys to ask me this one question. Are you ready to win, dude? Like, I don't want to hear that. I didn't go through all this sacrifice and pain to hear, like, am I ready? Or, you know, it's more like, hey, how can I be there for you? But you learn really quick that you have to teach people how you want to be treated. And that's really how you should be acting about like in your day-to-day life. It's just having that emotional intelligence that, you know, bodybuilding, you know, it really required me to do those things.

And I wasn't perfect at it, but you know, when you're able to kind of position, if you got an entourage, you got to have like, Hey, your job is to make sure the car is ready. Your job is to make sure the dry clean is ready. You got to make sure the tickets, you know what I'm saying? You got to work with, with that. Hey, you got to make sure the car is ready. Your job is to make sure the dry clean is ready. You got to make sure the tickets, you know what I'm saying? You got to work with that. Hey, you got to make sure the food prep, all that stuff is good. You got to make sure my wife's okay and like her best friend is good because if she ain't good, I ain't good. You know, those are the things, you know, that you really learn are very, very important

because that makes the machine really work. I don't have to think about anything or anyone, but just whooping their ass. That's it. So, you know, it's very, I would say it takes a level of maturity, I'm sure. You know, a lot of athletes learn that later. If they can learn that sooner of being able to communicate and then communicating with their coach, like, hey, I ain't being a wimp right now, bro, but I got to, something not right. You know, something not right.

Can we look at this instead of like yelling and being like, man, what the hell man? Like, you know, like you got to calm down and realize like, Hey, can I, can I holler at you for a second? Hey, last fight, we were doing this and this leading up into the, into the fight. Like, you know, we did a hard cut and I don't think my body's responded man can we bring in somebody else can we we can we call phil heath yeah but you know like you just have to communicate the best most honest way and and with that sometimes you gotta you gotta trim fat from your own camp like you gotta be

like look man let's do like, I don't like him anymore. Like, he's doing this, this, and this. But I don't know how to break it to him. But we just got to keep it cool. And after this is over, like, he's got to go. You know, stuff like that. I mean, it happens. Yeah.

Yeah. You're talking about your close friends and family. You mentioned your parents a moment ago. I know your dad was a significant part of your life and a part of the documentary as well. What were the core lessons that you learned from your dad that helped you be the champion that you became? Hard-ass work, man. Like, hard. Don't matter if you're injured either.

Having real grit and remembering who the hell you are. Like even when my father, when he was, I remember he was on it, like literally on his deathbed. And I remember it was like August. It was like about five weeks out before. I think it was 2013, Mr. Olympia. I get the call. I'm in Denverver he's in seattle i fly up and they're like yeah it's not looking good this and that i remember grabbing

the damn doctor and i was like you don't know who i was like arrested i remember that because he was like you can't be touching me and he was like i told him i said that's that's my dad like we share the same bloodline like he's a Heath. I'm a Heath. I don't know what you're talking about. So I remember going up in there and I was like, what's going on about you not eating? And he looked at me, he didn't want to say anything. I walked out and next thing you know, three days later, I get a call there like, man, he's eating everything. And I was like, whoa. So I realized like there's a level level of resiliency in him that I share too. Sometimes you just need a little nudge, but then you become,

you can have that alter ego and just nudge yourself. So my dad, even though he was given a month and he lasted about a year, so I say that he's a fighter, and I carry that with me all the time, especially when life ain't perfect. It throws you curveballs, but like I said, you step in the batter's especially when, you know, life ain't perfect. It throws you curveballs. But like I said, you know, you step in the batter's box, you take a swing at that damn thing. You know, you swing as hard as you can, as smart as you can, and you make them pay.

You know, life is here to kind of whip your ass. And that's what I learned from my dad. It's like, it's going to whip your ass a little bit. But what you can learn from it is some valuable lessons on how you can not just help yourself but help a lot of other people in the process and you know me having this platform he told me he's like you know you you you can help a lot of people and you're helping a lot of people and he's most proud for that so i know he's up there you know like you know gosh like i know he's up there like

just remember that belt i used to use on you you know it didn't take too many times trust me i only remember twice i was like but but sometimes you gotta put the ass in in life you gotta put foot to your own ass in life and and you can't be afraid of hard work. You can't be afraid of, oh, this ain't working out for me. Yes, it is. It is working out for you. how you got out of it. So I feel like, you know, with Breaking Olympia, people are able to see, you know, my mindset, like my thoughts, my emotions, something I never really shared before. And I'm so thankful for, you know, everyone involved, you know, Brett Harvey, Adam Scorgiagey scourgey productions of course danny garcia she is a beast like i i can't thank her enough you know um and of course the big guy you know dj duane johnson um he gave me a lot of you know really good advice he was he was the one really

encouraged me to do that 2020 olympia for me because he obviously knows what it feels like to be pulled in different directions and to do WrestleMania again and and realize like it ain't always going to be like how you initially had thought about it sometimes you got to let the fans love you and there's times where you got to just let them hate you too you know you got it you just got to let it happen but in the process you're living and you just got to give everything, you know, you know, honor and respect to the craft and that craft is your life story. Yeah. Are you stronger than the rock?

All of this other stuff we've been talking about for the last hour, I'd like to finish it with the deepest question of the day. Well, I was privileged to be able to train at Iron Paradise. That was freaking awesome. And it's funny because we're both lifting and we're kind of like looking at each other. Like who's going to go up and wait first? You mind if I just add this? Five pounds to the bar. Is that cool with you?

Right, exactly. Oh, you're grabbing those dumbbells. Oh, okay. I'm going to grab these. We had a little bit of that going on. I'll tell you what, though. He is fucking strong, dude. That's a big boy. I think his training style has changed because

he realizes if he gets hurt, that's a billion-dollar brand, man. He can't get injured. He can't get no bicep. Yeah, there's no torn pec. No, you're not on screen doing all that. So we didn't go at it like that.

It was kind of like sparring a little bit, so to speak, you know, just making sure that, all right, we, we both, you know, we both athletes, but, um, I give him a lot of credit because he he's put that body through a lot. And he is, when they say he's the hardest work in the room, he pretty much is. I mean, he's in there, you know, lifting heavy when he wants to light when he wants to. And he's very methodical with it, which I can respect because, because you know he wouldn't be as durable as he is right now you know we seeing him you know back in the ring doing stuff he wouldn't be as durable if he was you know lifting stupid yeah so you know yeah it was a i expect another training session with him and um i would like to push him a little bit i would like to some like just for me but of course that's never going to be aired so it'll just be under wraps if you guys if you guys film that and put it on the internet i'm 100 sure i'll watch it so you'll get at least one one download

one for sure yeah one view so dan garner tell the the people where they can find you, man. All right. Thanks so much for the time, Phil. I've been a huge fan for a long time. Your batter's box Olympia speech was one of the best speeches ever. I freaking loved it, dude. You're the man. And if anybody wants to follow me, I'm at Dan Garner Nutrition on Instagram.

There you go. Doug Larson. You bet. On my Instagram, Doug Larson. Phil, dude, really enjoyed watching you throughout your career. Enjoy you coming on the show. You seem like you're in a great spot mentally and emotionally. So happy for you, brother.

Good to see you. There you go. Thank you. Breaking Olympia, man. I love watching people lift weights. Really good music behind it. A good storyline. Seven-time Mr. Olympian.

That's really, really awesome. And really enjoyed having you on the show. So it's coming out March 26th. Make sure it's on all the streaming platforms and all the places. And dude, we got to have you back on. There's, there's a lot to, a lot to dig into here still that questions remaining. So I appreciate you coming on today. That's great. No, thank you guys so much for your support and the conversation. I really enjoyed it and look forward to doing it again soon. Awesome, bud. It's great meeting you.