Barbell Shrugged - Breaking Through Diet Dogma W/ Stephanie Gaudreau of Stupid Easy Paleo

Episode Date: March 1, 2017

  This week on Barbell Shrugged we interview Stephanie Gaudreau and talk about how to break through diet dogma. Stephanie is the founder of Stupid Easy Paleo, and has been helping hundreds of thousands of people change their relationship and habits with food. Unlike most food bloggers, Stephanie is not trying to convert you to her version of eating. On the contrary, she is actually quite fed up with the dogmatic rules that many of the people in the Paleo community project on others.  When we hear the word "Paleo" we automatically think of a set of rules around the foods we can and cannot eat. Although there is value around starting with a template, the truth of matter is, we are all different. We each have unique biochemistry, different preferences, and personalized goals. With that said "eating like a caveman" does not explain much about how to eat, and it often leaves people confused, and influences others to create false assumptions around what it means to adopt Paleo principles. We brought Stephanie on the show to break through the noise, and talk about how to develop your own unique version of eating that will help you thrive and reach your lifestyle and performance goals. Ladies, after the show be sure to check out the Stephanie's Women's Strength Summit. Get access to an extensive collection of over 30 interviews with some of the top female experts in the fitness and nutrition community, including interviews with pasts guests of Barbell Shrugged like Diane Fu, Dr.Theresa Larson and Julie Foucher.    Learn more about the Women's Strength Summit here at: barbellshrugged.com/stephanie  

This week on Barbell Shrugged. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson, hanging out here at Physical Culture. And we have our guest, Stephanie Goudreau. Hey. Of Stupid Easy Paleo. And I think the whole world wants to know is, why is it normally hard to do paleo? People just overcomplicate things.

I don't know what's hard to do paleo. I like the name, though, Stupid Easy Paleo. You wrote my wife in early on. Yeah. Years ago, she was like, Stupid Easy Paleo. There you my wife in early on. Yeah. Years ago, she was like, Stupid Easy Paleo. There you go. Got all the cookbooks. Got the recipes. Doing all the recipes.

Yeah. Well, that's good. That Paleo for Athletes book was one of the first Paleo books that I actually looked through. Oh, my goodness. I'm honored. You were the one that put us on our path. That's good to know. I mean, I hope you enjoy food food because that's what's really important. Cool.

So what's your background? How did you get into this? How long is this show? We got plenty of time. Yeah, so I started off as a high school chemistry and biology teacher, taught for 12 years, and did the grind and, you know, had my summers off and all that good stuff but in about 2011 I had started this blog because I found out about paleo in 2009 and I started eating this way and I was putting recipes on my personal blog and people were like

oh that's all that's great but you should start a food blog. Of course, as one does, you're like, oh, okay, I'll just start a blog. I mean, I don't know, I don't know fuck all about blogging, but I'll just do it anyway. So I started the blog and I was blogging just on the weekend and for fun. And so it was like a virtual recipe box. So I didn't lose my recipes and I could just go back and refer to them at any time. But eventually what happened was in 2011, in the fall, just a month or two after I started the blog, I did a master or did like a mastermind group online for CrossFit athletes who wanted to improve their mental game because that's, I was competing and I wanted to get better at the sport, but I knew that my mindset was just, just totally fucking with me. I would get really in my own head. So I did this program and long story short was we had to do this

sort of life inventory. And I had never done anything like this before. And you had to rank all these different things like your health and your career and your finances and your relationships. And I thought for sure that I was going to rank something else lower than I did my career, but no, my career was the thing I was least satisfied with. So that sort of, and I was going through a divorce at the time. So that can, that tells you how unsatisfied I really was. And so I ended up thinking, all right, well, if I'm not happy teaching, what else am I going to, so you have that revelation of like, all right, well, if I'm not happy teaching, what else am I going to, so you have that revelation of like, all right, I'm really not happy doing this. And then what,

what do I do? I mean, I'd only ever known education. I started teaching at the age of 21, had a master's degree and all this experience. And so I thought, all right, well, I'm just going to keep doing this until I figure it out. And so long story short was in 2013, I made the leap and I was super scared and, and petrified as one is to sort of just walk away from this long career and try to do something new. And I think at the time I probably had like a hundred blog readers and you just kind of say, well, I'm going to do it and try it. I was able to take a leave of absence from my district. So at the very worst, if I was a spectacular failure at the end of a year, I could go back.

And so that was nice to have that sort of reassurance. But, yeah, I left in June of 2013, and I was like, all right, sink or swim. And the rest is history, and I haven't gone back. I like hearing those stories, hearing the thing that flipped the switch for people. Yeah. You know, we work with a lot of entrepreneurs, and it is interesting because it's almost always different. It's not predictable. Yeah.

You're like, oh, how do you get someone to, like, see the light and this and that? And it's like, it seems different for everybody. And for some people, they're already doing the thing they're supposed to be doing. So there's no light to see. But yeah, so you were it is a mindset thing and just ended up ranking really low. So, yeah, it's interesting how once you get your thoughts on paper and you can see what you're actually thinking and feeling. Yeah. What how that can transform your life? Well, it's interesting.

People write to me all the time and they're like, I don't know. You know, I have this side thing and I really love it. It's my passion, but I don't know if I should go to doing it full time. And should I and shouldn't I? And like, what's the right time? And I'm like, well, first of all, I don't want the responsibility of telling you what to do and then being responsible for that. But, you know, it really is different for everyone. And everyone has such a different tolerance for that sort of stuff. That's true. Yeah, there's definitely different tolerance levels for making a leap into something like that. Yeah. I think it's funny.

This happens a lot is people are looking for permission from somebody else. Oh, yeah. They're used to not taking the responsibility. It's like, okay, someone else has got the responsibility, so you go to school. And, well, you're a school teacher, so you know this. The kids are all being trained from your youth that I need to have permission from this teacher to go take a piss. So, like, the idea of taking, moving away from one job and doing something

on my own, I could definitely understand why we would be looking outside of ourselves or something like that, which you don't need to look outside of yourself. Yeah. Oh, I was sitting in the car right before I walked in here and they did a little Instagram live. And I was like, Hey, this coaching point, I want to talk to you guys about today. Like stop giving away your power. You know, you're like, you're, you're like, this person made me feel bad. This person's judging me and everybody's judging all the time, but you know, no, it's up to you to really decide how you're going to take that. And I think Mark Manson in, in the subtle art of not giving a fucks, does it really well. He's like, something might not be your, you might not be to blame for it, but now it's your responsibility, how you're going to react, you know, and that goes

with, uh, doing and saying crappy things to yourself, too, which people do. But yeah, I'm really big on this like non-victimhood sort of self-responsibility train lately. I think it's really important for people to realize. I know a ton of people that have read that book lately. And every single person like starts reading it or starts listening to it if it's on an audiobook. And they like can't stop. It's like it just sucks you in. You're like, this book is fucking awesome. awesome like everybody likes it so if you haven't read

that book the subtle art not giving a fuck is a totally awesome book that dude gets it yeah awesome book i loved it cool so with regard to paleo it seems uh this is just my opinion i'd love to hear yours uh it seems like the the concept of paleo you know if they didn't have it 10 000 years ago you probably shouldn't need it that that type of thing, if we oversimplify the whole paleo mindset. It works really, really well for someone who's brand new just to give them a good idea of kind of what's good for you and what's not good for you, that type of thing. But most people, once they get that and they make some changes to their nutrition, they have some success, they eventually gravitate away from that rigid ideology. And they start refining, um, kind of the paleo diet for themselves, which means that it's not really paleo anymore. They just have

figured out how to eat for themselves. So, um, with, with that concept for, for a new person, like how, how in your mind should a new person think about paleo and how do people in your mind think about paleo after a couple of years of trying it yeah that's such a great question and first of all i can we like kill the cake can we kill the caveman thing please because it's not helping like the caveman meme and sort of the this way of like explaining what paleo is is just really fucking everything up so let's just off the caveman deal but you're saying you know if the caveman didn't have it, we shouldn't be doing it. Yes. Except for the brownies.

I love the caveman brownies. They're so good. Yeah. A guy tweeted me randomly last week and he was like, paleo, eat like a caveman. And I was like, no, can we stop doing that? And he's like, what do you mean? And so we had this big discussion about this whole idea. But yeah, this is such an interesting question. And recently I was sort of wrestling with, do I keep building my personal website and brand and or keep putting energy into Stupid Easy Paleo?

And I was really conflicted about it for a bunch of different reasons. Firstly, because the word paleo is a huge turnoff for a lot of people and they think they know what it is or they've had a friend or relative that's that's done it and they're like it's a super strict diet and it gets misconstrued and and part of that isn't anyone's fault other than we use heuristics to explain things right so we're like okay you generally will eat meat seafood eggs veggies and fruit and healthy fats okay that sounds easy enough but we're all different. We have unique biochemistry. We have unique needs. We come with a shit ton of health and other baggage, right? Emotional baggage, fitness baggage, whatever it is. So we are all different and we need to understand that like, it's a great entry point for people, but if we're going to live and die like ride or die by strict paleo, it turns into any other diet.

I'm frankly not interested in helping people get on diets anymore. I'm fucking stick to it. And at the end you're like, all right, I'm just going to sit on the couch for a whole weekend and just like Netflix and pizza my, my face off. Cause I can't deal with like diet rules anymore. Like I'm not interested in helping people with that. So let's get down to that. We need the Netflix and pizza diet.

It would sell like crazy. So this leads me to my next question, which is better macros or paleo. That's a joke. Yeah, you know, like people love to get. You're going to start a fist fight. They're different. People are arguing about this right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so when you first are trying to wrap your brain around like, okay, I'm eating a standard American diet.

I'm eating processed food all the time. I'm feeling like crap because of what I eat. I need an entry point, right? That's when a list of sort of like yes or no foods to start with can be helpful because you have to wrap your brain around it, right? If I'm going to sit here and give you a three-hour lecture about the nuances of nutrition, you're going to stop listening to me when you're first getting into this. So it's a great place to start, but it is not the be all end all. And I think that's where people get really stuck. And I will post things like potatoes on my Instagram and I always get, and I have an article on my blog. I'm like, just read this, you know, but potatoes aren't paleo. And I'm like, look, I'm constantly stressing that context

is more important than dogma. And I'll give you an example. My husband was paleo long before I was, before we even met each other, and ate really well, cut out all the shit out of his diet. And even though he was eating a really clean diet, so he'd get itched ear on his elbows and had a customer facing job and would get, you know, we call it sad panda eyes. So his eyes would get super red and flared up. And as you can imagine, one does not feel like going and facing the public when you're like that. So it took a couple of years of sort of experimentation and trying to figure it out and going to doctors and having them say there's nothing wrong with you and you're fine to narrow it down to a histamine intolerance. Now, he was eating, quote, paleo foods, right? But it just so happens that real whole foods, perishable foods, tend to be high in histamine.

So figured it out. It's much better now. Long story short is like in a case like that, just saying, Hey, go paleo. A lot of people go paleo and it makes whatever symptoms they're dealing with worse because of whatever they're dealing with underlying hormonal issues, gut problems, you name it. So it's a good place to start. But I tell people this all the time, like after seven, I've been paleo for seven years. I don't eat strict paleo. I've figured out what's worked for me. What I've eaten at certain times has been different than others, but I still stick to that kind of generally real whole foods

that make me feel really good. And, um, you know, a food might make me feel good and make you feel like shit. So ultimately, if you want to stick to a healthy way of eating, like a lifestyle, it can't be just a strict yes or no food list. And that's where people fall down. I'm like, seven years on, I don't just have more willpower than you. Right. I've just figured out what works. Yeah. A lot of times people ask me how long I was paleo or when I made the switch or whatever.

And then people also just assume I'm paleo. Like, I don't know why. We talk about it. I mean, it's a great place to start, and we're proponents of it. But I remember when I tried paleo, I think I cut out bread and oats. But everything else was exactly the same. And it was a very small change, but I'd already figured out what was working for me. And when I cut out the oats, I remember it felt good for a month.

And I also cut out post-workout shakes that had sugar in them. And I felt great for a month and then started tanking in my workouts. And I was like, oh, the oats and having some dextrose or Gatorade in my post-workout shake was beneficial. We were doing Gatorade because we didn't know any better. I mean, it's not bad, but you could do something like dextrose. I do think there's some value in being what people would call strict paleo for a while, where you're really just focusing on food quality, eating the highest quality food possible.

And then on the other end of the spectrum, there is some – you're joking about doing paleo versus macros. There is some value in measuring and figuring out the exact quantities of all the macronutrients that you're eating. And so having a period of time, a couple months where you're doing each one and you're really focusing on quality, you're really focusing on quantity, doing both of those things can really help you dial in what could potentially work for you in the future

when you're hopefully blending the two and you're focusing on the right amounts of high quality food. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, back in the day when was it macros was the big, they didn't call it that. So back when. It was like zone first and the macros took over. Well, before that, I mean, like I was like 15 years old picking up the magazines at the

grocery store and muscle and fitness and like, oh yeah, you eat this many grams of this, this many grams of this, and this many grams of this. I was like, cool. I just started measuring everything. Right. There wasn't a name for it. They didn't call it macros, but, I mean, it's an old thing. And I was doing that. And then over time refined it with like higher quality stuff, which was like more paleo.

So, yeah, by the time paleo came along, I was already like thinking, okay, macros and paleo mixed together. And that's why it wasn't that big of a swing really. And yeah, that's true. Like it's good to come from that perspective. I find that it's good every once in a while I still pull out the scale and I put some food on it. And just to like remind myself, it's more of a calibration. It's like, oh yeah, this is about what six ounces of meat looks like. This is what, you know, 12 ounces of veggies looks like. This is just kind of what this looks like and feels like. Just remind me, you know, just to know what I'm doing. Yeah.

I feel like people are really afraid of it. And I think it's true of guys, too. But I'm not a guy, so I don't really know. But I've worked with some guys who are like. You can pretend to be a guy. Yeah. They struggle with this, too. But women, especially, who are, like, like making these lifestyle changes they're eating better they're

working out um or and whatever else they're doing um they're really afraid of overeating and so what i find is um you know this story plays out in gyms across the whole world practically is you know you'll get people who are they're cutting a bunch of food groups out of their diet. They're trying to eat better. They're calorically really low on calories, probably pretty low on protein. And if they're working out pretty hard or trying to lose body fat, that can be counterproductive. And so, whereas a lot of people are like, okay, I'm eating too much. Oftentimes I will recommend people start tracking what they're doing just to get a sense of like, no, actually six ounces, four to six ounces of meat looks like this much. And they're like, oh, I thought it was just like a little piece, you know? Yeah.

I was told in sixth grade that a four, sorry, I believe it was a serving, like all you needed, not a serving. It was all you needed in a day was a serving, like all you needed, not a serving, it was all you needed in a day was a piece of meat the size of your palm. And our teacher said, so that's just a piece of bologna as big as your palm. And I remember being like 12 years old, being like, really? That's like nothing. That's like, I have like five of those on my sandwich at lunchtime. And they're, they're actually bigger than my palm. Like, that can't be right. Yeah. But, like, I didn't know why it wasn't right.

I just knew that shit couldn't be right. Yeah. So, you know, that can definitely be helpful for a lot of people. Long-term stuff, it just gets a little bit obsessive. But it's a tool, right? It's a tool just like anything else. And tools, as you know, like I could use, I could take a hammer and, like like hit this nail into the side of this box and that's a good use for this tool. Or it could hit you in the head and that's not a good use for that tool.

Depending on who you ask, I guess. You know, you can't blame the tool. Doug's wife's like, yeah, that's exactly it. I need a hammer. Stat. You know, you can't necessarily blame the tool. It's usually in the user. And so that stuff can be used

for good or for not so good purposes. Coming back to personal responsibility. Yeah. Oh, no. Let's take a break real quick. I want to come back and talk about where am I supposed to get my carbs? And we're back with Stephanie Goudreau. I like saying your last

name. Sounds fancy. It's got a lot of vowels in it. Sounds French and high-end, doesn't it? Goudreau. like saying your last name yeah sounds fancy it's got a lot of vowels in it yeah it sounds french and high-end as it doesn't it good row until i say it then it's like the american version of french word sorry you did well you did thank you thank you um so uh we were like oh what are we gonna talk about there in the second half immediately started started talking about, well, first I went on Instagram Live. And if you're not following us on Instagram, what the hell? And you should, I could be popping on Instagram Live moments notice. You could have a real-life conversation with me.

You could text and I could talk. It would be amazing. But a lot of people were asking, do you, you know, what do you do for carbs? You know, and everyone immediately just gravitates to potatoes. And on the first, you were saying, but potatoes aren't even paleo. I know we were talking about let's not be dogmatic about this,

but if we are going to try to get some carbohydrates, especially for athletes who are doing a lot of working out, what are some of the more favorable things? We don't want to go get the hamburger buns from McDonald's for our carbs. Well, I mean, you could.

It's delicious. You could. No, no, it's not, actually. It's so gross. This is what people think. Not in my front row. I'll tell you what. On that note, all this food I used to like when I was younger,

I've actually tried to go back and eat it at times. It's disgusting. Perfect example, Chick-fil-A breakfast sandwich. I'm from the South. And I used to love those things. And I tried one out maybe a year and a half ago. I was like, oh, yeah, got my Chick-fil-A coffee and the sandwich, put it in my mouth. Nothing like I remember.

Nothing like I remember. It was like I have gotten really spoiled with high-quality food. Your taste buds change. Everything's changed. I can't eat hardly anything. I'm sorry, Mom, if you're watching this, but there's even stuff my mom used to make. If she were to make it again,

it doesn't have the same oomph. I think a lot of people would think that'd be sad. They're like, oh, you've changed. But it is a good thing. Anyways, sorry. I took too many nootropics today. I'm just like, blah. This is my second show. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I took too many no tropics today. I'm just like, this is my second show. I'm just going nuts.

Wow. All right. Well, on that note. Yeah. I think carbs are, man, fat used to be the devil. And then everybody's like, but you need to be skinny and start to be skinny and be lean. You need to like cut your carb intake. And somewhere along the way, like a bad game of telephone, right? to be skinny and so to be skinny and be lean you need to like cut your carb intake and somewhere

along the way like a bad game of telephone right we're talking about cutting out really refined carbohydrates that have been stripped of their fiber and nutrition and water and whatever and have had to be re-fortified chemically right so in a in a factory basically to add nutrition back to them so somewhere along the way that became just cut out all the carbs from your diet now before anybody hates on me for like saying i'm talking shit about keto like ketogenic diets do you have a place um know what you're getting into before you do that sort of stuff but like we're talking about sort of the general population right so somewhere along the way like a bad game of telephone, it was like, don't eat any carbs.

And so what we see in, and women are a little bit more susceptible to this than guys, just because of our hormonal fluctuations, like we normally have in, in our cycle. But what I see and what you guys see and what we like coaches and people that have gyms and different facilities sees athletes are coming in they're training pretty hard they are generally not eating enough food overall but their carb intake is really low and they're like but i just can't figure out why like i feel like crap i'm not performing well like i have no sex drive i'm always moody um and and they always look to external factors

right they're all like oh maybe I need to sleep more like maybe I'm not whatever like I need to have room darkening shades and it's never like let's start with the most obvious stuff first so I'll say like carb intake is going to vary widely for different people. And if you're overweight, meaning you're – because I'm actually overweight according to BMI. Damn BMI. Yeah, so I'm overweight, right? But I mean like you have a body composition that you're carrying too much body fat for your body size. You're dealing with insulin mismanagement, stuff like that. You've got some gut health

issues. The way you are going to eat is probably different from somebody who's coming in and smashing five wads a week and pushing themselves really hard. So we kind of have to understand that first and foremost. And it's really interesting. So Rob Wolf has a new book coming out next month. It's called Wired to Eat. And he talks a lot about sort of personalizing your carb intake. So for me, I know I can eat corn and it doesn't really bother me. Like corn's not paleo, but, um, it's a food that I eat on occasion and I don't really seem to suffer any ill effects from it. You're talking about eating actual corn, um, Corn or corn products. How else are you going to get the meat in your mouth? I know. Without a tortilla.

Yeah, exactly. Tacos are life. In SoCal, I mean, we need to eat tacos. That's just part of the code. I've been eating a taco at least 45 minutes. In fact, when we walked in, I walked in and you were eating tacos. Yeah, I know. Don't tell anyone.

For me, corn is kind of like a whatever i know if i eat oats i don't feel so great you know so um one of the things you could do is get really nerdy and like get a little glue glucometer and test your blood glucose after you eat certain foods and like you'll see some variation from person to person of how those carbs affect that person but in general like we're just talking about carb intake. And the thing that's really interesting is the, the more paleo, like traditional paleo forms of carbohydrate are going to be things like sweet potatoes and starchy veggies, root veggies, um, you know, plantains, fruit, stuff like that. That's much more fibrous. And so it's pretty filling. And, you know, you're like,

yeah, I'm going to crush this sweet potato. And like, I'm going to get my post-workout carbs. And you see somebody that comes in, they have half a sweet potato. It's about as big as my fist. And they're like, yeah, I had my carbs for the day. And I'm like, that's not even, you know, 20 grams of carbohydrate. So they're think they, they forget that the volume of food is going to change depending on how much fibers in it. If it's a vegetable source versus something that's more dense like rice. You know, so for some people having some rice post workout is like an easy way to take advantage of your insulin sensitivity. Number one, and like get a good dose of carbs in you without having to eat five sweet potatoes. So there is some, again, personal responsibility, like you have to have some, some savvy about that. And luckily, there are books and stuff and websites and people who

can help with that. But I think it, it helps for people to get a sense of what they are eating. And if you're relying on more veggie sources of carbohydrates, like you've got to sit down and figure out how much carbohydrate you're getting in a day especially if you're doing lots of you know you're doing training you're training hard or you have a physical job you're on your feet all day um i just find you know people are coming in and they're getting like 50 grams of carbs a day and they're smashing themselves working out you They're on the floor writhing and puking and just really going all out, and they're really not replenishing that glycogen. This is somewhere where I do feel like macros, especially if you're brand new to eating well,

does a really good job of making you change your behavior and getting enough of carbs, getting enough protein, getting enough fat, whatever you're not getting, getting enough calories in general, for the record. Where a lot of people, if they're not getting enough carbohydrates and then they look, okay, I got to, it's post-workout, I got to get 40 grams or 60 grams or whatever I'm supposed to get based on my macros. And then they measure it out. They go, whoa, that's like way more than I would have self-selected.

For sure. And then now they have a better idea of how much they're supposed to get in the future because they had that period of time where they actually measured, you know, a 60-gram amount of rice or they go, well, I'm supposed to get 60 grams and I don't want to have rice or sweet potatoes and I'm going to try and do it with carrots. Well, shit. Now, I could eat like a four-pound bag of carrots to figure that out. So that's when looking at something that is denser, like rice or sweet potatoes or quinoa or oats or what have you, um, can come into play where you realize, wow,

if I want to get enough calories and enough carbs, then, you know, these denser sources, the only, their only avenue that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I think again, like a lot of people are coming at, um, this way of eating from a weight loss perspective. We like, first of all, we know that exercise is not the best way to, you know, affect weight loss. And I get it. Like, first of all, we know that exercise is not the best way to, you know, affect weight loss. And I get it. Like, you know, it's a stress outlet. It's you do it to strengthen your body and whatever. And that's fine.

But if you're like, OK, I'm going to like I'm going to work out really hard. I'm like changing my life. But in the back of my mind, I'm still focused on weight loss. I find with people, my clients, like that drives their behavior. So they will do things like skip out on post-workout or they'll give themselves a smaller portion because they've heard that going lower carb is going to help them lose body fat. Whereas in a lot of people, they're already dealing with a significant cortisol load as it is just because of life and other stuff um that's that further spikes their

cortisol load and they're like well i'm getting fat around my belly button like i don't know what's happening and you know so we sit down and take a look and they're like oh well i'm eating you know whatever it is you know an inadequate amount of carbohydrate really and the first thing is like add some carbs back in they're like oh well you know i don't know that sounds really scary um and then the ones that do are like wow i feel a lot better you know like i have my energy back i i can um you know like i if you're a woman like you still have your period like if you're you have your sex drive like you aren't gonna tear someone's head off all the time because you're fucking hangry like i don't know't know. It just, people have to be willing to play around with that sort of stuff.

But people are really, really paranoid about getting fat. I was looking at a study a couple of years ago. I don't remember all the details, but here's the rough idea. They basically took large groups of people to study. So they have, you know, 20 or 30 or 40 people on, on, uh, in two different groups. And what they did was they had each group work out. And some people have the belief that like, well, I just, especially people that want to lose weight,

well, it just worked out. I don't want to ruin it by eating right afterward. I just burned all these calories. Now I'm just going to go eat a bunch of calories. And then it's like, I'm going to neutralize all the effort that I just put in. Especially if you don't like working out already, you feel like, fuck, I just did this thing I don't like.

And then I ate a bunch of food and then it was worthless. So if you think like that And then I ate a bunch of food and then it was worthless. So if you think like that, then this is for you. So basically what the study was showing was group A worked out and then immediately had some type of post-workout drink or meal, you know, zero minutes post-workout right away. And then the other group was basically working out and then they were just allowed to freely eat the way they normally would throughout the day. And what they basically found was that both groups ended up eating the same total amount of calories throughout the day. So the group that was forced to drink a post-workout shake actually ate a little bit less the rest of the day. And the group that didn't eat a post-workout shake or have that

post-workout meal, they actually made up for it by eating a little bit more later in the day. And so the group that had the post-workout shake right away, since they have a higher insulin sensitivity and it's more likely that the calories that they did eat would be partitioned towards refueling and replenishing lost muscle glycogen or repairing any type of muscular damage, it's going into their muscles essentially and, by default, not going into body fat. The other group, since they missed that golden window or the window of gains,

we did the window of gains, go look up that episode a while back, those calories were more likely to be stored as body fat. So they ended up eating the same rough amount of calories each and one group got stronger and gained less body fat because they ate the calories at the best time, which is, you know, right around the workout or immediately after the workout. And the other group gained more body fat just simply because they waited and had those calories later. So it does matter when you eat what you eat. And so if you're going to eat some carbohydrates, getting them as close to your workout as possible

is going to be the most beneficial, the most likely to help you recover, and the least likely to be stored as body fat. Boom. Boom. Knowledge bombs dropping everywhere. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. the least likely to be stored as body fat boom boom knowledge bombs drop in everywhere yeah absolutely yeah um what do you think about i i've seen this a bit um i'm not coaching athletes on daily basis uh like i once was but uh and what i've learned about just human behavior in general has shaped this is how many people and i know I used to be in this camp so

I'm speaking from uh personal experiences it's easier for someone who's a weight loss you know they're looking for weight loss it's easy to train because it's a form of self-punishment and it's like oh I can I can show up to the gym five days a week and I can punish myself for not being good enough. And then I can punish myself even more by not eating the thing I really want to eat when I leave the gym and so on and so forth. And so there's this really big cloud of negativity that's following them around, which is going to produce that cortisol like you were talking about. It's like, oh, I don't know why I can't lose weight. I'm just completely hating myself and punishing myself all the time.

So you have like this negative cloud and it's going to make it a lot more difficult than if you're living in a positive place. Like just being positive as you walk around is going to change your hormones and allow you to just, I've known a lot of people that their perspective on everything kind of changes. Sometimes there's a different trigger for different people where they start appreciating everything and having gratitude and they're showing at the gym because they love their body and all of a sudden all this weight they were fighting to get off for years

just falls right off, like within weeks. And it's like a mystery. And it's like's like oh it's interesting to watch happen yeah well i had a similar experience too i mean i used food and exercise as punishment um self-medication you know i used to go out and ride race endurance um mountain bikes and just go out for hours and hours at a time and suffer right and so i i totally get that point of view, and that was my life. And it's really interesting. Happiness is both a cause and an effect of being successful, and motivation is both a cause and an effect.

So I think it was in The Happiness Project, Gretchen Rubin wrote something like, I act the way I want to feel rather than I feel like I feel the way I want to, like I want to act. So the gist of that is like, if I am not feeling happy, then know, my life sucks and I'm just waiting for this like meteor to come out of the sky and hit me in the head coaching and they're like, I can't eat these, this list of things, right? Like maybe I have to do, maybe I have an autoimmune issue. I have a, I have a pseudo autoimmune issue. I have endometriosis. So like, there's a bunch of food that's probably not going to help me feel good on a, on a monthly basis, just because of the sort of like pseudo autoimmunity that's in my body. And I could walk around and be like, oh, but I can't eat this.

And I can't eat that. And I'm like, oh, my life sucks. Or like I can't do this thing that I really like. And can't, can't, can't. And so the way I try to approach it with people is I'm trying to get them to see things differently. Because there's nothing different about, you know, let's say I'm a miserable person and you're a happy person. And we can be both experiencing the same situation. And there's absolutely nothing different than how we choose to see that thing, right?

So I try to get people to understand. It's like instead of saying you can't do all these things, it's not even I can have other things. It's I choose to have them. So it's like when you say you can't do something or you can't have something, that is moving the locus of control away from you, right? That's very much a victimhood mentality. It's very much a disempowering type of situation. And so instead, I try to get people to focus on what do you choose to have? Like what do you choose to add to your life that's going to bring it value and nourishment and strength and vulnerability and like however you want to express those things? But I think we really have to we really have to understand how our sort of like self-talk and how what we choose to buy into.

You know, if I choose to walk around and be like, I can't do all these things and life is just against me and I'm having a really hard time. And yeah, I'm going to use food as punishment. Cause I'm a, I'm, you know, my parents didn't love me enough. And like, there's absolutely nothing different about me as a person really, right. I still have the same past. I can past I can't erase that I'm still pretty much made up of the same parts but there is an aspect of you know how food again like it's like happiness happiness is a cause and an effect like fixing your hormonal issues okay well that can that is going to affect your mood and so it's all very cyclical.

And I think humans want, we want to think everything's very linear. Yep. Right. We'd like, we have input X and like it spits out Y and we are very complex. We're very, we were built on cycles. We have to understand that like what I do here is going to affect something downstream. But all we can do is really be here in the moment and just think about that stuff. I think talking about we want things to be linear and we want things to be cause and effect, right? We want to say, if I do this, then this will happen. And that's not necessarily the case like the the old like newtonian physics versus say einstein's physics and and you start looking at quantum physics and

you go oh do you do you do i need to like the western outlook at things like i have to i have to do this thing to have this thing i have to do this or to be happy. Or could you be happy and then that thing just happens? Yeah. It's like be the thing first and then all of a sudden order starts lining up in your life versus a lot of people think they need to get all these things lined up in their life and then they can get there. You're not going to get there if you're going to wait for, you know, putting conditions of happiness or conditions of like i'll be i'll be happy with my body when i get here and everybody i know that says oh i'll be happy with my body when i get down 130 pounds nobody's ever happy if that's the condition however people who go you know what

i love my body and i like it just the way it is all of a sudden they'll slide right under 130 pounds. Yeah. But they got to, you know, it's like I've been reading some stuff by Joe Dispenza. I think you'd like it. He's talking about like an old way of thinking is you've got to do, you've got to do, have the experience, and then you can be. And that's how we tend to look at it. Or you could be, and then things how we tend to look at it or you could be and then things that you want to do just kind of happen because if you're being that person you do the things that a person like that does and then and then your thought was it goes thinking

doing being he's like why don't you just start being and then the doing and thinking will take care of itself yeah i think um people really focus on all the things they don't have. Yeah. Like I'm not successful enough. I'm not sexy enough. I'm not strong enough. I'm not popular enough, whatever. Like I, you know, I don't have enough money. Um, and I think that really puts us at a disadvantage. You know, it puts us at this mindset of seeing everything as a lack and, and that is certainly going to affect your stress levels, you know, on this sort of outcome right and and and so i coach my folks a lot too on like process oriented versus outcome oriented goals like the more you're focused on the outcome and that's a very future oriented event right it's you it's probably really complex like let's say your goal is to lose 50 pounds there's a lot of stuff that's going to

have to happen and if you put a time on that fucking that's a lot of pounds. There's a lot of stuff that's going to have to happen. And if you put a time on that, fucking, that's a lot of, I mean, that's a lot of pressure, you know, instead of just saying, okay, what can I control right now in the process that's going to make me a healthier person. And I like to talk about gaining health instead of losing weight. Cause I think weight loss is a, is a side effect of good health. Um, and so it's like, well, what can I positively affect? Okay. Well, I'm going to go and take a walk today at lunch. I'm going to put an extra vegetable on my plate when I go to bed at eight o'clock or whatever, nine o'clock. I don't know. You know? And so like, those are, so those are things, those are things I can, I can control right now. Yeah. Right. And so when you're more invested in that process and you don't

see health as an end goal, right. You know, that like health is going to be something you're going to do for your whole life. If, if that's a priority and a value to you. And I think a lot of people expect that happiness is going to be this big, amazing fucking crazy explosion of cool shit that's happening to them. Like, you know, they're like, I'm walking around. I'm so happy. Like, everyone's so happy around me. Like, oh, this is great shit that's going on all the time. Whereas, and social media and I think technology plays that up hugely.

I only post the good shit. Yeah, right? It's all very curated and very filtered. If you notice, there's, like, days where I don't post anything and then it's, like, it's all very curated and very filtered if you notice there's like days where i don't post anything and then it's like really cool shit yeah there was not cool shit happening on the other days i was saying this to mike the other day when when i look at social media at some level i think my life is a little bit worse because i look i look at what is the best part of all the people who i'm following because i'm only following people that i think

are super cool and so it's the best part of people who I think are cool's lives, and I'm comparing all aspects of my life subconsciously to the best parts of the cool people's lives. Yeah. And that, at some level, subconsciously makes me feel just a little bit worse about my life. Absolutely. And I think that's probably happening for everybody,

or at least a lot of people, 24 hours a day looking at social media. Yeah, well, and people are like. Not me, Doug. Not everybody. You're the person I was thinking about when I was like, oh, not everybody. The exception to the rule. So, you know, I think if we can get a little bit more comfortable with the fact that life is going to suck sometimes, right? We're going to have just as many negative things happen to us as super positive things.

It's part of the human experience. I think people are like, oh, you know, these tough times are happening to me. Like, that's not fair. And that stuff just happens. But if we can get comfortable with a more low-key type of contentment, right, I think contentment and happiness are two different shades of sort of the same thing.

But contentment is like that low-key feeling where, like, things are good right now. Like I'm good. I'm safe. I'm, you know, I'm taken care of. I'm doing things that are creative and gratifying. And that's where that gratitude comes in, right? That like constantly reminding yourself of like it's a good day. Right now I'm not sitting in a cube farm like typing on a computer.

I'm standing here in SoCal with you guys talking. Like, that's awesome. Except for this fog. Jeez. Yeah. Worst day ever. Worst day ever. 65 degrees and foggy.

For sure. For sure. No problem. I like the concept that you brought up about how you really don't have control over the outcome of a situation. You really only have control over your behavior. So whenever you're setting goals, you set the goal with something that you actually have control over your behavior. So whenever you're setting goals, you set the goal with something that you actually have control over. Because you don't have control over

whether you actually lose 50 pounds in the next six months or a year or whatever your timeline is. You have control over whether you go to bed at 8 o'clock or whether you put another vegetable on your plate. So keep that in mind when you're setting goals, dear listener. Set a goal that you have control over.

Yeah. Control is such an interesting concept. I got an email from a girl who you have control over. Yeah. You know, control is such a, such an interesting concept. I got an email from a, a, a girl who follows me on Instagram and she was talking about, you know, um, and this is a very similar situation. I'm sure people listening and you guys have felt this way. We're talking about joking about family earlier. You know, she's like, I've got this person in my life. Um, she's, she's doing a lot of destructive things to herself you know like like this this girl kind of knows better and she's so upset that her friend is doing all these self-destructive behaviors like we talked about right punishment food and exercise and

and the whole thing and um i was like right but the challenge is is for you to sort of be able to sit there and think, if I want her to change, that is me trying to control who she is. You know, and that's actually a really hard thing for people to grasp and then to sit with. It's like every time I get upset that somebody's not doing something the way I want them to, I'm trying to control them. And so the question becomes, can I love that person for who they are right now? Like, can I accept them for all of their shit that bothers me? Can I accept them even though I see them eating foods that are going to cause them diabetes or whatever, or that they're, you know, they're exercising themselves into hypothalamic amenorrhea or whatever it is, can you still just love that person the way they are?

And if the answer is no and it makes you stressed out to shit every day, then I don't know, is it better that you sort of minimize that contact? I don't know what the answer to that question is, but I think control, like human beings, we want to control every single thing and and the stuff that we do want to control like that 50 pound weight loss you know we always want to move it away from us like it's always somebody else doing something that's bothering us and they should just stop it or you know that 50 pounds I should just be able to make it happen magically instead of oh actually I decided I was going to,

you know, go on a week-long pizza bender. That's my fault, right? That was my choice. Do you have a thing for pizza? That's the second time you mentioned pizza. I don't, but I wrote about pizza today, and so it's on my brain. Pandora Pizza is right down the street. It's like the best ever.

All right. We got tacos, we'll go get pizza. So, sorry, I have a question. So regarding control, you know, earlier you were talking about, well, if they don't have control, then it's hard to set goals. Some people, they would love to eat healthy and they would love to eat really well, but they just simply don't know how to cook. Like they think healthy and they think, well, I'll eat a salad. Okay, well, I ate a salad yesterday. Well, now what am I going to eat?

Well, I guess I'll eat another salad. Just because it's like the default thing that they don't actually have to know how to cook. They just throw a bunch of stuff in a bowl and it's done. Sardines. So do you have any advice for easy ways to cook lots of healthy food? That way it's just available and prepared. That way when someone goes into their kitchen, it's not like, well, there's nothing available. So I guess I'll eat the snacks that are in the pantry.

I'll eat the pizza. Yeah. I mean, that's not like, well, there's nothing available. So I guess I'll eat the snacks that are in the pantry. I'll eat the pizza. Yeah. I mean, that's how, that's how people end up. Like if it's available, they'll eat bad food and there's no good food available. Then they, they won't. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I've, I've noticed lately, um, and this is sort of in my coaching and other experiences with people. Oftentimes it's the analogy I'll give is like, I get a lot of women who are like, I don't want to strength train because it's going to make me bulky. Right. And when you really get down to it with that lady, it's almost never really about bulk. It's about she doesn't understand how to do it.

She doesn't know how to get started. She's intimidated. And the same thing happens with cooking. And particularly certain types of food like meat people are like i just don't i just don't do meat or and it's not because they have certain ethical objections or sustainability issues that they're they're just like i just don't cook it on a daily basis i don't like it and i'm like oh wait a second. Let's unpack that a little bit. And it's almost always that they don't know how to cook it. And so it's just easier to put yourself, to wall yourself off and just go, I just don't like it.

I don't like strength training. It's going to make me bulky. I don't like eating what acts food. And it's usually because they don't know how to make it taste good. That makes sense. Yeah, people eat a lot more vegetables if they know how to actually make them taste good. I grilled some zucchini yesterday. That makes sense. Yeah. So. Yeah. People eat a lot more vegetables if they know how to actually make them taste good. Yeah. Like I grilled some zucchini yesterday.

That was ridiculous. Like zucchini is really good if you know how to cook it. Yeah. Yeah. Or if you just put bacon on your Brussels sprouts, problem solved. Yeah. You know. Adding bacon to all vegetables.

90% bacon, some vegetables. The vegetables will taste great. A sprinkling of vegetables with your bacon. Yeah. You know, I think. If it weren't for bacon and blenders, I would eat no veggies. Blend your bacon with your vegetables. A bacon smoothie?

Oh, shit. I know what's happening in the morning. So I think, you know, there's some first of all, you have to take the pressure off yourself. Like, no one has time to make a complicated meal that looks like it came from Pinterest

on a daily basis like stop it unless you're hunter he's hunter are you good at that stuff yeah hunter's crazy just taking pictures of it speaking of speaking of beautiful food like you're pretty good at taking photos of beautiful food you gotta you gotta throw that in there too how do you make your food so beautiful but i well Well, I just fuss with it. But I also lately have been posting on Instagram stories. I call it like real life whatever. Real life breakfast, real life lunch, real life dinner.

And it's like here's what an iPhone photo of this thing really looks like when I have it styled it and the right angle of the light and the right stuff and the editing. But I think people have to lower the bar they're like lower their expectations just a little bit there's a there's there's a happy medium right there's a happy medium between food that's approachable but not so simple and boring that you don't want to eat it like there's in that middle ground is where i exist and i want to teach people and people are like what do you eat, Steph? And I'm like, the food that's on the blog. That picture of that salad actually was our lunch that day.

So I think there's an interesting middle ground that people can find, which is food that still tastes awesome and is satisfying. Because steamed broccoli and plain chicken breast is just not appetizing after the 10th time you've had it. But it's not so complicated that you can't actually do it. There are things that can help, like get a crock pot. Totally. It cooks the food for you.

You don't even have to do anything. You just put it in. It's like that set it and forget it. Well, you have the crock pot. Bronco. Yeah. The other like that set it and forget it. Well, you have the Crock-Pot. Bronco. Yeah. The other thing is just use your spice rack. Just go buy a bunch of spices.

That's something that we use. I don't know. I feel like we're dumping in like five different spices every time we cook anything. And if all I did was throw salt on it, it would be boring as hell. But throwing in all the other stuff that I actually don't know what the fuck I'm doing when it comes to that. That's Ashley. Ashley puts all the cool spices in the food and makes it

taste amazing, but I can tell the difference between if she's out of town and I'm just doing it. I'm just throwing some salt on there. I'm just like, ah. I'm just eating for calories, but if I actually want to enjoy my food, she does it. But she's, like, I know that if she were gone for longer, 10 days, I would freak out.

But I would start using the spice rack myself and just throwing different stuff in. But that makes a huge difference. It does. And simple things. Like, when you go to your favorite restaurant, like, you go out for a really nice meal. And you have your favorite dish. And somebody asks you, well, what do you really love about it you're like i don't know like it just tastes so good right it's because the chef understands how to make flavors work together so stuff isn't just one note so like if you just dumped in like a tablespoon of oregano into your chicken it's only going to taste like oregano. But how do you sort of, how do you balance that out, right?

You add a squeeze of lemon, right? So you're sort of learning how salt and acid and spices can work together. And I mean, that's the really basic stuff. I mean, that's not even touching other things. But, you know, I think humble food, simple food is the best. But you've got to know how to like make it like you got to be nice to it you got to sort of mold it a little bit or it's kind of it's not going to work out so it's like keep the food simple learn a few simple techniques get yourself a crock pot

get yourself a dutch oven and a cast iron skillet and you can make so many great things just by you know get it get some meat get some veg switch it up add some avocado or whatever other fat you like press repeat like just just find what you like it's okay to use that as a template and then change up the flavors until you're more comfortable but i feel like you have to be okay with failing and you had right like if you're so afraid of fucking up your food that you don't even want to get in the kitchen and try something then you're never going to learn and you're never going to even come close to enjoying it and so if you do mess up like have a contingency there are so many meal services now you can get meals and freeze them

right you can order i don't know order out like if you really mess it up but i've i've messed up meals and just like just ate it anyway all right i'm not i know not to do that again i'll change it up back to punishing yourself that's right i deserve this good thing i learned how to cook before i went into that phase of my life yeah i think while you're learning to cook, having some type of pre-made ordered food. I used to do Pete's Paleo here in San Diego, which was totally awesome. That's nice on many levels. If I come home from being out late and I get home and I'm just tired and I just want to go to bed,

I can just heat it up, eat it, and go to bed. I don't have to spend 45 minutes making this ridiculous meal but but yeah if you if you you know make some type of bulk meal and doesn't turn out then well you you still have in the freezer like a bunch of great meals that you can just heat up and eat for a few days while you're you know why you got to go shopping again and then redo the whole process over again yeah yeah i feel like um you know stew anything like that soup um you know take a you get like a big hunk of like pork shoulder or some kind of beef and like put it in the slow cooker, shred it up. You can freeze that. I mean, like you could dress it up a million ways, right?

Guacamole, salsa, like any kind of veggies. I mean, just I like to keep things kind of simple when I'm cooking them. I won't usually overly spice it if I'm making a big batch. And that way I can portion it out and I can change up the flavors, right? Different spices and sauces and stuff like that. And I don't get tired of that one flavor. Because if I'm going to make, I don't know, some kind of curry something and I've got a vat of it that's this big, I'm probably going to get to the end and not want to have that for another month or something like that.

Never get tired of curry. Yeah. So keep it, you know, keep it a little bit more plain when you're prepping your food. And then when you portion it out or you sort of eat it throughout the week, you can change up the flavors and you don't get bored. Oh, that's likely to screw that up too. I like that. Yeah.

I like doing things like soups and stews and chilies. And I had frittatas today for lunch. Oh, yeah. Like, I like things where it's just one thing. Like, if you have soup, you take the soup and you put the soup in the bowl and then you're done. You heat it up and you go eat. And in that case, for me, like, I'm a person who I gravitate towards wanting meat and starch. Like, that's, like, what I kind I grew up having. That's my baseline,

my natural baseline. Still to this day, even though I like vegetables, that's the thing I have to actively think about, consciously be like, oh, I got to put vegetables on my plate. If I have soups, stews, chilies, frittatas, things like that, it's all one thing. I don't have to think to add or subtract anything. It just is all right there. And so, you know, if I make frittatas like I had today for lunch, there's zucchini and sweet potato and onions and bell peppers and broccoli. And then there's some, you know, feta cheese or whatever else I put in there. And it's all just in there. And so I automatically get the vegetables because I don't have to think about putting them in there because they're just already there. Auto-veg.

Mm-hmm. Auto-veg. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Auto-vegged. So that's a good way to go about making sure you get all the things that you want to get. Sneak it in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's awesome. I like it.

Cool. Where can people find your stuff? StupidEasyPaleo.com and literally any social media account that you can type in Stupid Easy Paleo. Boom. Yeah. All right. Instagram. Very cool.

And you have a couple of books. What books do you have? Uh, performance paleo cookbook. That one was, uh, came out in 2015 and the paleo athlete, which is just sort of more a general guide for people to learn how to get

started with different types of sports and how to, you know, massage their, um, macro intake and stuff like that. Yep. Excellent. Both very cool books.

Thanks. Thank you for coming on the show today. Thanks, guys. You bet.