Barbell Shrugged - Bro Science with Dean Guedo — Real Chalk #99

Episode Date: October 29, 2019

I met Mr. Dean Guedo at the Spartan world championships in Lake Tahoe this year. I was interested to talk to him because himself and a partner started a new company called “Stronger Experts.” This company does a variety of testing on some of the best athletes in the world while simultaneously uploading the data and videos to a platform which qualifies for continuing education credits. Pretty awesome if you need those to keep your certification valid. It’s also great because you don’t have to travel.  Anyway, in this convo I try to bring up a ton of basic meathead-ish questions to shine some light on in his own words. It’s fun to geek out sometimes, but sometimes it’s more fun to chat the basics.  Hope you love it.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/rc-guedo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Ladies and gentlemen, it's Tuesday. Let's get after another episode here. I've got Mr. Dean Guido with me on this particular show, and he is part of a company called Stronger Experts. What I really like about the whole Stronger Experts deal is they create continuing education credits for people online, which I think is dope. Because a lot of people have their CSCS or some other sort of personal training certification, and you either have to pay to go to certain places to get these continuing education credits to keep your cert alive, or you can do something like this, which is online. And for us, they happen to be doing a lot of things that we probably would watch anyway

and probably want to be a part of anyway. Really, really cool stuff. They went to Jamaica recently, worked with Johan Blakes, who's the fastest man in the world, and a couple other athletes out there in Jamaica. And just a really, really, really cool organization, and all the stuff they do is really interesting to watch. And then amongst the stronger experts, they bring people on and create roundtable conversations. And I was actually on their last one.

So they're bringing in people from everywhere, the CrossFit realm, the bodybuilding realm, the Olympic lifting realm. They have everybody on this platform. They actually have Mr. Travis Mash, who I had on my podcast last. That was an amazing podcast, by the way. So they had all these people on, they bring them all together. And what I really wanted to talk to Dean about, because we happen to get along pretty well in the house, was just basic bro science. That's what I wanted to call the show, Bro Science. We basically just talked about what are your opinions on some basic dietary prescriptions? What is wrong with me right now? What's your suggestion on just certain types of weightlifting protocols, strength, hypertrophy, different things like that?

I mean it's just a very nice, mellow conversation that I'm stoked to have. And it's just cool to have these kind of just basic, basic level conversations. So you guys can just kind of have a nice little opinion and kind of just get basic information. Because a lot of times we geek out on these things. And it's just like too much, you kind of tune out a little bit. And you don't really care about all that super geeky stuff. And sometimes you do. But it's very rare that I bring someone on and we just do the basics. So I'm really excited for you guys to check this episode out this episode however is going to be brought to you by organifi who creates all the greens the reds the yellows and actually they call them gold but it's all these fruits and vegetables and all these things that we should have in our

diet that we typically don't with their products you're getting a massive dose of all these things. And for me in particular, I don't eat my vegetables all that much. So got a little bit of a little smirk going on there. So I mean, I'm a huge fan of my of my meat, and my supplements and all those different things. So getting these vegetables in is crucial not only for like just fiber intake, but for your micronutrients that need to be going on in your body. If you feel like you don't have enough vegetables, you should highly, highly recommend getting some sort of supplement.

It'll make you feel amazing. And for any of you out there who you decide to buy one and not the other, and you don't like the flavor, I always like to recommend that the reds of any brand out there, but I've had many of the Organifi's as well, is usually if you mix a red flavor in with a green or a gold or one of these other flavors that you don't particularly like, the red will take over and make it taste amazing. It'll just taste like the reds. So if you don't like that flavor, like let's say you want to have your greens, but you don't like the flavor, throw the reds. So if you don't like that flavor, like let's say you want to have your greens, but you don't like the flavor,

throw the reds in there. It'll taste amazing. If you have a protein powder sitting around the house that is just collecting dust because you bought it or someone gave it to you and it doesn't taste that great, and you're like, oh, I don't want to throw it out because it costs money, or I don't want to go buy a tub,

but someone gave it to me, but it tastes like crap and so forth, throw a little reds in there. I'm telling you to go buy a tub, but someone gave it to me, but it tastes like crap and so forth, throw a little Reds in there, I'm telling you, all of a sudden, that shitty protein will all of a sudden just taste like the Reds. So I mean, stuff like that, I think is a really great trick. So not only are you getting your micros in there, macros in there, all these different things, but you're also getting rid of all those things in your cabinet that you're probably going to throw out anyway while feeling better at the same time so if you guys go to organifi.com slash shrugged s-h-r-u-g-g-e-d you guys will get 20 off anything over there you guys have heard us talk about organifi for years now it's a great product we love promoting it we've loved we've

had them on the show i mean mean, they're a great company. So you guys are in good hands when it comes to Organifi. All right. Without any further ado, we're going to get into this episode. I hope you guys love it. Make sure that if you do love it, you tag myself and Mr. Dean Guido. His Instagram is going to be in the show. And I will see you on the other side.

All right, Chalk Nation, we are back. It's Tuesday and we're on the mountain, the side of the mountain in Lake Tahoe in Northern California. I'm sitting down with Dean Guido with Stronger Experts and Stronger You. And Stronger You. So they basically do a whole bunch of specialized stuff and you guys now have basically an online app where it's like continuing education yeah long story short is we got we rolled up like some just badass people in the industry like travis mash mike t nelson great knuckles christopher just like the

list goes on and oh nelson's part of it oh yeah like of course he is um but we have an online platform where we put out content every week. And then on top of that, so we do what's called a project. So it's kind of our way of changing the education game. You probably know just as much as anyone else that when you go to a seminar, you go listen. They present a bunch of shit and you go home and don't use any of it. Or you use all of it and change everything. For us, we wanted to create an experience where people come on the trip and we fuck around,

hang out with the coaches, drink beers, be in a house, do all that stuff and get people to actually know the experts because network is a huge thing that I think is lost in a lot of the training industry. So just try to change how that's distributed. I try to tell people that network is literally the most important thing you can do. It's the most important thing you can do.

Yeah, and if you think about yourself coming up, especially in the fitness industry, a lot of young young coaches they're introverts or don't know how to communicate with people so basically force them to come out of their shell because in a conference setting most people just either go home or don't say anything and that's like where the gold is i feel like for me in conferences the i'm looking just for like one nugget yeah and every single one it could be like a three-day thing or a three-hour thing and i'm just like i just want like one good piece. And I feel like I always get one good piece and I'm really excited about that one piece.

Yeah. And like, so take that concept and try to make the whole thing one piece. I don't, it isn't even a horrible metaphor, but like, like what I, everyone kind of goes to that experience. Once you started learning higher level shit or being exposed to higher level people, it kind of bursts your bubble and you see kind of where the level's at where most people are kind of still stuck in their gym. We're going to learn this training stuff. We read these

books. Once that bubble's burst, you kind of can continue on. Do we want to burst people's bubbles? Well, what I think is cool is you guys have little pieces. So like every year, you guys have about 70 hours of content. Yeah. And those are all divisible.

Just high-level dudes. A bunch of different people. Yeah. Which is cool. And you can just kind of learn all of it. Yeah. And then a big thing, too, is all our presentations and stuff, we just throw on the platform. So if you're a yearly subscriber, we had Mike T. Nelson, Dr. Pat Davidson out for a fucking two-day thing.

And if you didn't go to it, it's still on the platform. So you can still learn. So it's just kind of like, where was I when I was 18 years old and couldn't afford shit? Can we make that person's life easier? Yeah, I really like that concept. A lot of people,

but when you're trying to learn and be the best and do all this stuff, A, it's very hard to find and assimilate all the information, and B, it costs a lot of money. It costs a lot of money for someone who doesn't have a lot of money. And then on top of that, people are in school.

They get exposed to school stuff. But we both know that all the shit's outside of school. Like all the good stuff. When it comes to strength and conditioning, 100,000%. I remember, I mean, I went to school for exercise physiology. What did you do? I was a teacher. Oh, you were a teacher?

Yeah, I was in phys ed. But I learned about phys ed stuff. Yeah, so when you're in school, I remember everybody I was in class with was like, hey, what do you want to do? And we all wanted to be strength and conditioning coaches for NFL or college. Yeah. That's all we wanted to do, everybody. And the girls were like, they wanted to maybe go wind up getting their masters in dietetics

and then just be a registered dietitian. And then that was what everyone wanted to do. And then I realized when I graduated, I was like, fuck, the only way you're going to get that college or NFL job is if you know somebody, if you're connected in the pipeline. You'll still suck because you didn't learn shit. Yeah. So all the practical applications is what you need, one, and then you need that networking. So that's where all this comes into play.

So sometimes you go to an event not because you don't know somebody, but because you're there and you're excited to meet other people. Yeah, and sometimes it sounds horrible, but sometimes it doesn't even matter how good you are. It's like if you can channel and be a decent person. Sadly, it doesn't matter. But if they like you or if someone likes you, that goes a long way. So you can be the best trainer in the world, but if you can't communicate and everyone fucking hates your guts, sweet, you suck at networking and no one will hire you. Yeah, there's a lot of people that are like that too. Yeah.

I can think of a lot of people like that. So it's just a matter of we kind of filter that out by bringing the people that we like, but also bringing in coaches that want to structure that experience. So it's just kind of like that's the idea in the brain and we're in the process of doing it, but the first one was sweet. I wish I would have been to an experience like what we went to Jamaica.

Oh, the Jamaica experience? Yeah, that's on Barbell Shog. That's with your boys. There's a Doug. They talked about it. They had a few podcasts about it. That was the whole thing. We rented a mansion. We brought a bunch of attendees and we just chilled like we're doing right now. Right now we're in a kind of a mansion

for a podcast event. This is a huge place. But, like, we're all just learning and chatting and shooting the shit. And, like, that leads to other stuff. Like, whatever it does lead to, but it has nothing to do with our careers. Yeah. As trainers or coaches or whatever the fuck. A lot of the stuff that we've talked about the last couple of days has nothing to do with training.

Nothing to do. Our little roundtable conversation last night was ridiculous. Like, we just talked about Urban Dictionary. Like, we literally got schools on Urban Dictionary. We literally got schooled on Urban Dictionary. Yeah, that was funny. I don't know how much you can go into detail. So let's get into your exact position in all of this. So you're mainly a nutrition guy.

Is that like your specialty? I kind of accidentally became an online guy. I basically was a teacher. Long story short, college athlete, became a teacher, figured I liked fitness and I was powerlifting at the time. So I was like a high level powerlifter in Canada. And I just love training more than I like teaching or anything. Like it was just always like training, training, training, training, nutrition. So I've essentially left my career and just became a trainer, opened up my own studio and spent two years, like tons of money trying to just learn from the best people.

And then networking conferences, meeting people. I just kind of stumbled into opportunities like Stronger Experts. And I met the CEO of Stronger You Nutrition, Mike Dola. And basically asked me and my business partner to run their fitness company. So we opened up a company. And then we also worked with them online as nutrition coaches. Which was not in the plans. Like when I came into the fitness, like you get so narrow vision, like there's only you can only be trainer.

And like there's so much out there. Yeah, just in a different spot, just because I think I'm a nice dude and I know shit. Yeah, I just landed in things that I could capitalize on. But then also we have social media and all these different online networks. So like now a very small niche position could actually be way better than just being a trainer. Because everyone thinks the ultimate thing is just being a trainer. And it's really not anymore. And then the next best thing would be just being an online coach. And that has its own set of shittiness to it as well, depending on where you are.

The word coach really hits me the wrong way. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't like identifying with that. Like, I just kind of work with cool people and I make money on it and I'm comfortable, but it wasn't ever in the plan. Like, I wanted to be like... I wanted to work for like an NFL team and shit. Yeah.

Well, I'm in Canada. That wouldn't happen. But like, that is the dream. Like, I get to lift weights in the weight room where just strong dudes... Or be part of the Olympic team or something, like down in Calgary. Yeah, just somewhere where like high-level athletes are there and you learn real quickly like that's not the reality so what are some of the things that you do right now that are like your bread and butter that you're doing for athletes like because if you're doing nutrition stuff i'm sure you have

your own beliefs on that and what you like to implement well a lot of the time so like strong you they work with a lot of gen pop but we have tons of crossfit athletes and even like these spartan racers so it's a matter of a lot of ours if you look at a lot of nutrition companies or like a lot of the information about nutrition companies like they just do macros and like that's not true at all like you deal with that kind of shit but we're there as how do i best explain this we're coaches first and we don't give a shit about the fast fix and the macros. Like, the macros are there, but it's more about getting them from point A to point B, and that's all psychology, and getting them to kind of wake up

and not bias that process, if it makes sense. So, like, you can't tell people they're doing these things. You kind of have to work your way to that place. And so it's more of a coaching aspect. So how does that work? Let's just say I'm somebody who has a fucked up diet and I want to get more onto the track that you guys are trying to coach. What's the first step?

The first step is essentially getting them to track stuff. And that's totally normal, whatever. They have to be aware of what the hell. Did you point at me? Did I have something on my face? No, no, no. I was just wiping my own face. I was like, you're looking up.

You didn't tell me? I have a little itch right there but uh yeah go for it no so like basically getting them aware of their their human behavior and like the food environment there and like we can both agree like a lot of people are in very stressful situations there's so many outside factors coming in that they don't even know that shit is the way it is and so they fix things with food they don't know they're fixing things with food, but how do you get them to understand food as what they're actually eating and calories, but then on top of that, structure it in a way where they understand that things in their life are

their reasons for that, but you can't tell them that. And so it starts with awareness, so that would be tracking and macros and giving them advice and keeping them on board with, like, why am i not gaining why is this fluctuating why am i why is my week going up and why did it go down this much and kind of easing them into that process and then kind of sprinkling those nuggets and seeing if you can kind of bias the process a little bit so that they can kind of wake up like that's the best way to explain it but okay so you're saying more than just macros that the actual outside life

stress is part of this whole thing too yeah it's probably like the biggest it's probably one of the biggest things about it because like anyone again with athletes and like high level competitors it's easy like most people who want to be good at shit if they trust you well they have a very typical day ahead of them yeah and like and it's not realistic for most people like let's just say 95 of the people who need to lose weight and trying to change their life they're not not athletes. They don't like lifting. They don't like tracking their food and all that shit. Athletes are easy. You make no impact on them.

You're just giving them good, like eat more protein, have your fats in control, have this many carbs, whatever. Like that's easy. It's getting people that aren't athletes that don't give a fuck about that shit to kind of take that on themselves and understand it. Okay. And so like, yeah, like, and so I'm talking about about general population but that's a large percentage of what we work with like and i think that that makes a lot more sense to me is that that's the hard shit like it's

it's not easy to coach athletes but it kind of is well because the answer is like very oh like for the general pop is like the answer to you is so easy yeah and it's hard for you to like understand where they're coming yeah but you can't. So like imagine telling Sally with three kids and her husband works all the time and she drives her minivan. Like she ain't got time to fucking calculate her macros perfectly and have like five meals and exercise and like exercise. And like she's stressed out about the fact that her kid got beat up at school and like that stopped her from doing her shit.

So it's kind of like creating strategies so that they can live in this world where it's not as simple as what a lot of the higher level athletes because they think it's going to be this they think they're going to sign up for a program and they're going to get meal plans and they're going to be told they have to do these things but like we both know that that's not what's going to happen and so that's my job essentially is to wake people up and obviously moving them towards more exercise, moving them towards more muscle. But, like, telling someone that they need to go to the fucking gym and get more muscle so that they can handle carbs better and all this shit, like, that doesn't work for a lot of people. It works for us. Like, we like working out.

Like, oh, yeah, I'll put on more muscle. That fucking sounds awesome. Yeah. But that ain't the reality for a lot of people. And even athletes at some points. Like, there's athletes who are just good at shit there is for sure like and no matter what they do they're just gonna yeah you're not making an impact but you are you're helping them out but like that's fucking easy in my opinion

so you like to be a little bit more on the meathead side of things personally well that's where it's fucked up so i deal with like a lot of people in this realm and i totally identify as like i basically started as a football player then a power lifter. I like smashing weights and lifting heavy. So I just want to talk about stuff like that.

I really want to geek out on that stuff. You don't want to fucking ask about those. I'm excited. No, no, no. I wanted to get into what you guys do

and then I wanted to kind of specify what you do and then get into more of the fun conversations here. So let's just say a lot of people right now

they're struggling with should I eat carbs? Should I not eat carbs? Yeah. So like, let's just say a lot of people right now, they're struggling with like, should I eat carbs? Should I not eat carbs? Yeah. Do you think it's possible? It doesn't matter if I know the answer or not. I just want to know your opinion on it. Like,

do you think it, do you think it's possible for people to gain muscle on a high fat diet? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Calorie surplus. Like that's fucking the simple, just caloric surplus.

Right. So, and then obviously you can, you can gain muscle on a high carbohydrate diet. Absolutely. It's the same thing. So let's just say, do you believe that a calorie is a calorie? So let's say I'm in a caloric surplus, but all I'm eating is fat and carbs.

Do I think a calorie is a calorie? I think that that's when the other shit comes in. Like, can they pound away food? How much muscle do they have? All that shit. Because if someone's like fucking like us, like they can, homeboy can boy can handle carbs fucking smash it in hit the nose and like go lift weights for some reason i can't handle them really if you notice like what since i've been here i've like eaten like rarely any carbs i've eaten like cottage cheese eggs like you haven't really

seen me eat a carb yet i had a little bit of an apple but then that's the factor like so like you can't handle car like what why can't you handle carbs like what's not handling it i don't know i've tried like it's not that i can't handle it it's definitely a bulking option for me like as soon as i start eating carbs i instantly like within a week yeah and visibly like not lean yeah that's that's that's a you problem yeah that's how you yeah i mean it's not that i'm not lean it's just that like i can tell that if i keep going down this road and i've done it for like a month and i and like. So you can pound away food. Oh, yeah.

And then carbs set you off. So that's that whole thing of like that's that highly palatable option is like some people like me, I find it hard to gain weight and gain muscle because I have to be in a surplus and my maintenance is like 3,800 calories. So like I have to push it to like 4,400, 4,200. It like literally ups that equation of like my neat goes up. Everything goes up the second I add calories in. And then I literally lose weight if I get to 4,200.

But if I go to 4,400, I gain. But for me, I have to fucking smash carbs. Like try eating 4,400 calories with just fat. For you, you probably could put it away. You touch a carb and you're like, fuck, give me three Pop-Tarts and like pound some juice. And like so. Like for you, that's a bad option because you fucking can't control yourself. Like today I went on a big hike and I ate like half a jar of peanut butter and like

that to me is like super normal. Yeah. And as soon as I have a bunch of carbs, I'm like tired, exhausted, like, and I start like my body doesn't look as good. Would you like, I know your background and shit, but like, were you always like that? Were you, were you part of the equation when they fucking and crossfit and all that shit? I started paleo. So you started in that.

So you were probably biased with that, and that probably fucked you up. So, dude, I've been doing paleo now since 2010, 11. Yeah. Pretty strict. And to me, even though paleo is like fruits and vegetables and all this stuff, and you can have a decent amount of carbs, I just never did. Yeah, because it's fucking hard. Did you do the one where you couldn't have rice?

Like, you didn't do... Oh, I wasn't eating any... So, there's where, like... No rice, no bread. The diatribe is, like... So, like, if you, like, use your brain and solve things and problem solve, like, if you put someone on paleo and they, like... Good luck getting fucking carbs.

Like, you probably fucking... You know what I mean? Like, paleo is a weird thing because in a food environment where every, like, those easy carbs and fats and carbs, like, the highly palatable shit, it ain't paleo. So like you almost, I don't know, that's crazy. So people like you, it's like that sucks because you'd have to probably transition slowly. But you're so used to like the first time when you're like, I want to be lean, like you're the guy probably like you're one way or the other. I've tried really hard to eat carbs like recently and I'm just like more carbs carbs than normal yeah and i just can't do it it just really fucks me up

because you get too big not that i'm going to i just get too soft and i hate it like mentally i just can't do it though the longest i've tried to just like stick out the carbs was for um like five weeks and i was like i just kept like every week just getting softer and softer and i was eating the same amount of calories. Yeah. Just different type. Anything else change? I felt great working out. Yeah. But I just, I hated the way I looked, so I just changed it back.

That's interesting, because that would be, that would go to the, what kind of carbs are you eating? Basically, like, oatmeal. I ate oatmeal a lot. I would have, like, bananas bananas after workouts stuff like that but I wasn't eating a lot of bad carbs or anything like that you just hold on to more water and shit that's hard for some people you basically just have to get someone to tell you to over it

but that sucks but that's where is a calorie a calorie like yes and no there's that whole mental aspect of it to me I was very similar to that like i i but you're the other way you're on the carb side i under eight because like i was always trying to stay lean so i literally it took me almost and this is like recent because i was just i i just gave it because i was always in a weight control power lifting so i was always cutting to 198

but to stay at a certain point so i was always walking around lean at like 216 217 and for me to actually push to what i'm at now like 230 i had to literally because every time i pushed my calories on my body almost wanted to hold on to it because it was used to the same thing so like let's say for paleo but i was eating the same foods the same way at pretty much the same calories for four fucking years like to push your body to adapt it's not a five-week process like for me it was four months till i started getting weight and then it went up and i was still holding i was still under eating because i was like i'll just do 4 000 calories which was like whatever like a 200 calorie surplus because i was just like not

ready to actually gain it but it took like probably about three months at 4 400 calories for me to start putting it on because my body held on to that adaptation for so long because i was basically telling it stay at this weight you're going to cut you're going to cut every six months and you're lifting powerlifting. So like, that's what I told my body and that's what it was really good at. So I had to change everything. I had to increase my volume, everything. And it held onto it for so long. So another question I have is, what do you think about like when someone's eating relatively the same diet and they have relatively the same kind of training routine for years. Absolutely.

So this is someone like me, right? That's me, too. I've literally looked the same since 2010. I've always looked like this. I've always been about the same weight. Do you think in that time, even if I'm at the same calories the whole time, relatively same training style, am I putting on any muscle at all? Because I know they say you can't. Without the testing muscle biopsy,

the best proxy would be strength. And the problem is, is your program the same though? So this is where novelty comes into play. So it's hard to gauge proxy of muscle other than measurements if things are switching around. So a lot of people switch everything every four weeks.

For me, and for a lot of people that are trying to gauge proxy without actually knowing through strength, you need to almost follow the same shit. The bodybuilders had it right. Is my tricep extension going up five pounds this month? Yeah, I probably gained some muscle. After you kind of go through the acclimation period of like, I moved everything up, I'm used to the program,

I got the novelty out of the way, my body knows what I'm doing. Now is my whatever, tricep extension or bicep curl, is it going up with the calories? And that's where it's exactly the same as diet because it's cognitive oversight. But you can't have a cognitive oversight if you're not aware and have those factors. So it's shitty to say you have to track everything. But the answer would be, did you track everything? Did you keep everything the same? And did you get more muscle?

I'm just going to – I know everyone says that you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. Totally. I feel like over time you can. Yeah, I think that's where you go. I feel like you're gaining just a very, very small amount here and there. Yeah, that's where that's hard to know without measurement. But I mean, in novice lifters for sure. Like absolutely.

Oh yeah. Probably a little bit, but it would be like, it would be like in like six months time. So that's where like once you kind of get to an advanced level and you kind of know, you know how to count calories, you know all the shit, you know how to program. It's like, you're like every other person that you probably coach. Like tell, tell, tell yourself what you would tell the people you go yeah i'd be like dude you need to go in a bulking stage and like i just don't like that because i'm like i'm gonna commit for more than five weeks and you need to probably run the same program and like so like i'll use crossfit

for example but like novelty things change it's so hard to gauge projects and but that's also why they don't look like me like i look so big but i'm bigger because i'm doing the same fucking thing over and over again and that's not some people don't identify with that or don't like that so that's where like if you really want do you really want to get bigger do you want to do that that's kind of where choices will matter i was very interested because i went out to colorado recently and i trained at phil heat's gym yeah and he was training right alongside me and a couple other buddies who were, who were there training, getting some videos in and stuff. And I was like talking to his trainer and I was amazed to find out that, cause I was like, Hey,

what kind of like, you know, progressive overload stuff do you do? Or like, what kind of, what's the program look like? And he was like, dude, we literally just like do random shit every day. And I was like, really? Like you're not measuring strength at all. He's like, like, cause like one day, like the one day that we were there, we were doing hack squat. Yeah. Super set it with like RDLs,

super set it with like something, some other movement. And it was like three stations and it was like, boom, boom, boom. And it was super high rep, like 15 to 20 reps a pop, like three second eccentric, three to four second eccentrics and concentrics.

I mean, I was blown up. And then it was like next time they went, it was going to be some other sort of. See, that's where I think like that's where like obviously genetics. But like I wonder if they know the amount of sets they're doing per muscle group. And then on top of that, like guaranteed that dude knows what his RDL is. Like, you know what I mean? Like he can still proxy for strength, even though they're like, Oh,

we do random stuff. Like they know their shit, but that's interesting. Like, but that's where we're measuring anything. I was like, I was like, cause I asked his trainer,

I was like, you guys really don't measure anything. He's like, no, we just do different stuff all the time. I was like, wow, I didn't really think that it was like that.

I thought you guys were like to the T. I think, I think like there's probably, I don't know the bodybuilding world as much, but like, I think there's probably different camps for sure. Like, you look at that Generation Iron,

all, I think there's four or five of them, they were all doing different shit. Like, the one guy was in the farm smashing weights as hard as he could. I think Ben Pollock had like, shit hooked up to him

and they were doing super scientific. Fuck, who else do they have? Anyways, long story short is like, that's a whole different, they're at such a high level, like,

that's a different story, you know what I mean? And that's a different story you know and there's other things going on and there's steroids yeah i think if you don't think so then you're out of your mind but yeah some of them are probably natural but even at that level though i think people don't realize like when you've been doing it like a lot of those guys have been doing steroids for 10 20 years they're still only looking to gain a couple pounds of muscle a year yeah a lot no and it is a lot of work and i think like the reason why i think proxy strength is the best way it's like mike isertel said it on my podcast was like like dudes will ask him on instagram all the time like how do i get like shoulders like yours and stuff he's like motherfucker when you can like side lateral raise like 50 pounds you'll have shoulders that look like they can lateral

raise 50 pounds and so it's easy to say like if you factor in form and position all this stuff but like at the end of the day like you should probably get stronger at shit and the best way to get stronger at shit outside of like the neurological gains and the newbie gains right at the beginning is to do the same shit and get better at it but like that's that's the easy answer the the complicated answer is there's probably a lot of ways to get bigger. But for most people, they need to work harder, do more volume, get stronger, and probably do the same shit and stop program hopping every three weeks because

their juggernaut program didn't work. So they did 5-3-1 and then they're like, well, I want to do volume and hypertrophy and then they just follow this guy. That's usually the most meathead way to do things from 18 to 25 until you realize your bench is still 225 every day. Or just max out every day at the gym. That's a good one.

I see a lot. That one is interesting for sure. The classic 225, 275, 295 grinder. I could barely get 295 up. I'm going to do 315 and fail. I'm going to do that five times a week and it should work. And so when you kind of get past that stage,

then you actually have to work hard. And working hard is pretty much working hard, following your shit cognitive oversight like tracking stuff once you want to get past that novice stage you almost have to do that you don't have to but there's a lot of big guys like that do it but they're lucky like so the answer is complicated but simply usually work hard and do more work i've rarely ever followed anything in like yeah, 12 years at all.

I used to do bobsled and we followed a very strict regimen. And then after that, the only thing I would follow that was consistent was a squat program and everything else was kind of like free for all. Yeah, that's your brain. You're doing crazy shit like you've been mountain biking, hiking, paddle boarding. For you, the hard work would be literally probably sticking to the same shit. You even said it. So I mean like it's –

Yeah, for sure. But like that's where like what really matters. I know what I should do depending on what my goal is. But I literally have always just liked the way I've looked. And I'm like I don't really want to get bigger. I don't really want to get smaller. Yeah. I have like small little windows where I'm like I want to get a little bit leaner.

And then I'll just eat less carbs. And I'm like, cool. I'm where I'm at. And then I want to get a little bigger and I'll eat a little more carbs. But see, even that understanding is so advanced for like everyone we're dealing with. Like you have people that buy your programs and they probably have, they're not stupid questions, but it's like, it's a simple answer. Yeah.

But like, it's cool to be okay with where you're at, but it's most people that aren't okay with where they're at, where the answer is like, you got to do all this shit and you're not doing any of it. It's very overwhelming though right now because you follow somebody on social media yeah and what they're doing is not necessarily what you should be doing no and they may not be doing that yeah you know what i mean because a lot of things are easy sales like anything oh my god that is a big one so like there's a lot of people are like i only work out 10 minutes a day this is what i do and it's like no you don't they don't and you're on gear still like they're on gear they don't do that yeah they literally are on tons of gear like

yeah and they're on more gear yeah and they don't work out for 10 minutes but like a 10 minute program when you have 100 000 followers can make you a lot of fucking money so that's where like there's we're at an age where the information's awesome but there's a lot of awesome inspiration but there's a lot of information that's shit there's a lot of information that's shit. There's a lot of people that are shit, and it's hard to filter out that. Like, you look jacked, so people are going to trust that. But there's people who look jacked

that I wouldn't trust. But I only trust you because I know you. And I don't know these people. And there's people who aren't jacked who are trying to act like they know you. But this is where the world is like, I trust people that look like me for my goals, but they're also strong. If a dude's saying something like, you should do this, this, and this, and he has a 300-pound deadlift,

I don't want to learn about gaining muscle from you. But that's not the conversation most people have. He has a lot of Instagram followers and talked about keto. And that sounds like, I haven't done keto yet, so let's do that. I don't know. That's a whole different topic. have you tried keto before absolutely how'd it go it was awesome it worked like i i did keto for like five months are you in a cutting cycle or are you just maintaining i was literally trying to gain on it okay i end up losing weight because which is interesting now looking back at it but But the one thing was before I wasn't actually tracking much stuff, and then I started tracking when I went to keto.

But that was right before keto was cool. It was like right before people were talking about it. So I'm proudly not in the keto phase when it was a keto thing. How much protein were you eating at the time? If I was at 4,000 calories, fuck. Was it a gram per year? Yeah, I stayed pretty low. I stayed on like the 0.7-ish.

So I stayed on low because at that point the information was like obviously protein spikes your insulin or whatever and it can fucking pull you out of keto. So I was staying on the low side and I was just filling everything with fats. Like I had like 386 grams of fat. So I was like chugging MCT oil. Like it wasn't enjoyable but it was kind of enjoyable sometimes. Some of the keto shit's real good. But that was the only thing at the time was keep your protein low. Now I know that there's a lot of ways to do it, but they didn't even have the monitoring stuff back then.

So there was no idea if you were in ketosis or anything. Yeah, there's ketone strips and stuff they have now. Yeah, the breathing into it. But it was so much different back then because that's when it was bro science back then. And so it was kind of cool back then because it wasn't, like, a thing. And so when you did it, no one, like, now if you did it, it's actually kind of normal, sort of. There's fucking keto science everywhere now. But then, like, now, like, I was doing powerlifting at the time.

I didn't get weaker, but I also had my volume was so low it didn't matter. Now, if I did keto, I would have no juice. I would have it, but it wouldn't. That top end. That's something that I have experience with carbs. If I have high volume, you have a whole new level. But with the high volume and the high fat, no go. No.

A good thing is I was at Mike T. Nelson. We both know Mike T. Nelson. I was at one of the seminars and because we're friends he's like you're gonna do this test for me and it was a two-day test uh 2000 row each day the first day i was gonna be fasted and i smashed ketone esters which is like not ketone esters some crazy ketone thing that's 40 it like tastes like rocket fuel. And so like we tested my blood sugar and my ketones and it was fucking through the roof, um, in like 10 minutes. It was nuts. So I did a test 2000 test. And then we compared to the next day when I was fasted, um, and had carbs and it was night and day with keto and ketones. I could like go forever, but I had no six gear and i had a better time with carbs

probably because i did the test again but at the end like i had that six gear and i can go i'm like why i'd rather have the six gear because i'm a meathead and i want to lift as heavy as possible as much as possible for as much volume as possible and i don't think i'd have that with keto so it just doesn't fit but there is something to it it's crazy though because my entire crossover career when i was like at my height like my best ever I was eating like fucking no carbs at all yeah and I was so jacked and shredded and it was like my

best I ever looked and I was the best I ever competed at and then I never even tried consuming carbs really until after I was done competing yeah and I felt that gear like right away and I was like fuck I wonder what I would have been like if I did this back then well and because back then it was like it was a thing it wasn't like like it was new and exciting and like at that point crossfit was huge and like they grasped onto

it so hard i think a lot of people probably dummied their because it's it's been like proven at this point with science like you need carbs carbs is the nos like you can do it like you did it like they're like well but these guys compete at a high level yeah of course they're fucking genetic freaks and great athletes they would probably do good fasted like fucking hungover yeah but like

it's not the best like in the I don't even think anyone just that will do people disputed at this point I don't know I don't know I mean I just think everyone is like everything just changes

every couple months like every or every year or two it's like there's a new thing I can't imagine what the next thing is going to be but it's going to be something well they have like fucking carnivore keto and like they have like oh yeah now there's the carnivore diet where it's just meat yeah and like then they have like paleo is even like accepting of right like there's certain paleo diets that like you have rice and all this stuff it's like literally it's just a spectrum of like of whatever. Where do you identify with?

Are you in this tribe? If you're in that tribe, you need to fight this tribe. You need to just tell them they're wrong. Everyone's wrong. What diet do you hate the most? I hate keto. I like keto. Not personally.

No, I don't like keto people. Okay, perfect. Actually, I like the keto people I like, but I don't like the crazy keto people. Crazy crazy or the crazy vegans are pretty bad too crazy vegans i don't really like vegan people that much but i i think my my biggest pet peeve is the flexible dieting and so it's crazy that's my number one that's like where i fucking work is like but it's like not like flexible it's like there's flexible dieting like which is just like fitting food into your lifestyle and not being a fucking idiot. But true flexible dieting that people think

of is donuts fitting in and all this stuff. And they're literally just do any of them even get lean or are they fat? They all look the same. Maybe they're losing a little bit of weight because they're on a caloric deficit. And there's no way anyone that's identifying as a flexible dieter like the way I think of it

like Pop-Tarts and donuts. There's no way they're fucking actually that strong. They're big pussies. I just hate flexible dieting because I feel like it's just, like, it's like you're playing just the tip and eventually you're like, I'm fucking going to go all in. Like, yeah, like, you just want, like, don't, just admit it. Like, you want to eat, like, shit. Like, that's fine. Just, like, eat it.

It's going to force you to just want to eat, like, shit all the time. Yeah. You're just going to be craving donuts and stuff. And eventually, you're just going to eat a fucking box of donuts. And it's easy to do in this. It's an easy diet to do in this environment because food's, like, so accessible. And, like, it's fucking good. What?

Like, shitty food's more accessible than healthy food. Way easier. And, like, it basically just gives it a reason. Like, I just don't think it's a good long-term fix if you identify. But they were pretty crazy back in the day when it first came out. It was like, it just fits my macros. Fuck off. Well, it was that young kid who started it. And all of his photos

and videos and stuff was like Oreo cakes and all this stuff. And I remember we even watching it and being like, fuck, that looks not like... I want to do that diet. You know how easy it is to overeat when you just eat that shit? Like two Oreos. You could eat a package of Oreos, but, like, you would be so fucking hungry that you'll just eat more shit. Yeah, you just get insulin spikes and you're ready to go. Like, 3,000 calories in shit would be, like, extremely easy.

Like, that's how I feel. So, like, how did I get bigger was, like, I filled in the last 1,400 calories with shit because it was because I couldn't eat any more rice and chicken and vegetables. I notice here you're eating like cinnamon buns or something. Yeah, well, for here, for context, we're in a fucking place with no food. So it was like where do I go? But I heard you say like I just needed calories. I just needed calories. I just smashed up my protein, so I just have like high-protein stuff,

hit my like whatever, 200 grams. And then I'm not even counting calories because I'm like if I just eat these cinnamon buns and burritos and stuff like it'll probably hit it like is that how i would tell people do it no but like you gotta do you gotta do but that's where it's hard to eat a lot of like that's where the clean eating thing kind of falls off too because like if your goal is to get bigger and you have to eat these surpluses like good fucking luck like that's why the bodybuilders the way they are because they they're way more mentally tough yeah there's a whole mental aspect absolutely for sure especially the cutting phases even the i would say for me because i've done both i would say probably more

so for the bulking phases because they actually force food down like everyone's 6 000 calories even with the flexible dieting let's use that for example. Even if you did all that and you ate like shit, it's good for about two or three days. You're not going to continue it. You're going to feel like shit. You're going to feel like shit and it's not that good. It's good when you don't have it. If you tell someone to have a cookie, it's going to be the best fucking cookie after you have it. But you don't eat cookies all day.

There's no way your brain wants that. That's not true. So a lot of times people will be like, well, I just need to eat 200 grams of carbs today. But the carbs that they choose also have 100 grams of sugar in it. Yeah. So like what do you have to say to those people when it comes down to like choosing the style of carb? I think like it depends where you're at. I think –

Let's say it's not post-workout. It's like the middle of the day and you're just living your life. Just living your life. I think like at base level level it doesn't fucking matter like it does but like if you're someone who can't follow your diet anyways and like that's the way you're gonna get there like that's low-hanging fruit of my like get get hit your macros outside of that like is eating less sugar probably better than eating more sugar probably if you have a lot of muscle no like if you have like a big like if you have a lot of muscle and you can handle carbs and sugar you're probably fine like they've had research at that

point like people would if you have more muscle it's more protective like you can handle those spikes a little bit more but if you're not no like for like again sally with two kids like i would probably not recommend it even for the simple fact that putting in sugar sets that thing off in your brain where you want more sure it's highly pal palatable, especially if you smash it with fat. So that's where a calorie is not a calorie because it affects you differently, especially mentally. In a food environment where if you have one cookie, you know there's 10 in your cupboard. That 200 grams of sugar just fucked your whole day up. And I ate 300 grams now.

Dude, I tried. Why'd you do that? I tried so hard. I tried so hard not to have shit like that in my house. Because you're designed in a calorie. We were designed as humans and evolved that food was very sparse. So we had to run to get our food. We had to expend calories to get food. Well, if there was a mound of fucking cookies in the middle of the Sahara Desert,

you can trust they're going to eat that shit until they get fat because they don't know when food's coming again. So it's like you're designed to eat food when it's there because it's not it's hard to get food now we've just manufactured we made it so fucking easy on ourselves that like we we fucked ourselves like we made it so hard because we're now we have nothing to adapt to there's no stress in getting food it's so easy i had an old an old coach tell me one time because he was trying to tell me not to eat sugar and um he was like think about this he's like whenever the winter comes yeah you know like the type of food that's out for animals and such and then all of a sudden it's winter time and you can't get that type of stuff but now and like typically at that time what

you were trying to do is you were trying to bulk up and get fat for the winter so you could survive and now he's like we live in houses yeah and we fly that shit in from other countries, so no matter what, you always have access to sugar. And that was his way of telling me, stop eating fucking fruit and all this other stuff. Well, get this, put it on another layer, it's temperature control. So when you're cold or you expend more calories, you want more calories, all that stuff,

we live in a pretty sweet world where we get temperature control, so we have no reason to adapt to anything. In the summer, they found honey. Honey was the shit like if you had honey like you were you were good for a while because it's so highly calorie dense and it's just like you can't like you can tell people that and it makes logical sense but like we haven't evolved fast enough to deal with the environment we're in like i don't know what the next evolution is but like that's we we basically circumvented our machinery by just like giving us all the stuff we wanted which is a bad thing like we're designed to adapt to stress well if you take that

away like in the winter like you can just eat food in the winter so now people just get fat yeah and like now you get in your car you put your heated seat on well now you don't yeah well you don't even need to do that there's no stress uber eats man uber eats is gonna fuck everything because now you can have all the bad food you'd have to get up at your heat and drive to. You're less likely to go get fast food if you have to get up off your ass to get it. I would be very interested to see obesity in the world before Uber Eats and then obesity in the world now. I would almost guarantee. Five years of Uber Eats study.

Easily. People definitely got bigger. Because before, it was normal to eat pizza on delivery now it's like you can literally get tacos delivered to you you can get a goddamn mcdonald's coffee frozen yogurt frozen you can get everything everything yeah that is crazy to think about wow because we've just circumvented another thing that would have just helped us stay a little bit thinner which was we had to go out to get the shitty food now it can just come to us and like again naturally we're gonna like well make sense the famine's coming winter's coming like that's not what we think but like your brain or like

your genes are thinking like that if that makes sense yeah for sure that is a very interesting interesting way to think about it like that's the evolutionary argument like you can do whatever but like we're in a hostile environment essentially like like so and this is why it's hard for even you but like the people i deal with is like trying to tell them not to eat these things they're literally as an input it's everything's hostile food's hostile because it's it's it's going against what you're trying to do driving cars all this shit's all hostile stuff that causes stress and like you're right dab in the middle of it until you pull yourself out of it. That's why people like nature.

You pull yourself out of the environment. Things seem better. You feel more natural, all these things, because you just took yourself out of basically a city. And stress. As much as being in a car is not stressful, to your brain, there's things that can kill you everywhere.

Someone honks their horn. Holy fuck. Yeah. And that's stress. And then what helps stress? Well, eating helps stress. So does meditation. But like eating is a whole lot fucking easier than meditating or doing a puzzle.

How much do you think stress plays a role in like your metabolism and then your body's way to digest certain types of foods? I think like the way I look at it is just with the sleep stuff. And again, I don't know the specific studies, but people who don't sleep as much or have a bad sleep metabolize carbs so much more fucked, and they want them more fucked. So stress is kind of that same thing. So the more stress you have, it makes it more likely

that you're going to want to go for something easy and more palatable to kind of lower your cortisol down. So how does it affect it? I would say it affects it because you're more likely to you're going to want to go for something easy and more palatable to kind of lower your cortisol down so how does it affect it i would say it affects it because you're more likely to overeat okay you know what i mean like because not more like yeah there's a higher chance especially for like we'll say sally but even athletes like like when i had a stressful day at football again i was working out and stuff but like i would go smash like a fucking two liter of chocolate milk and a bag of doritos and then i would have like six pizza pops like there's no way if i didn't if i wasn't an athlete that that would be good but i was saying at the time you might have needed it like people do that oh yeah 100

all the time like i've been around people where like i'll watch them like oh my mom actually a great example it's like breakfast is like a croissant. And then like later on is like a piece of pound cake. And then like all day she's sipping on a latte that has like – it's not a regular latte. It's like a sweetened vanilla latte that has like 400 grams of sugar in it. It's a humongous Big Gulp version of it. She's just sipping on it all day. And then like for dinner it's like – She's like, I don't eat that much.

There's like a little piece of chicken and then like a piece of cake or something. I'm like, Mom, you literally just had bread all day. But like they don't know that and sugar yeah but like it's so calorie dense like they should is your mom super stressed who knows but like yeah a lot but a lot of people are and like i mean it's it's tough to tell people like it's really easy to say get more sleep stop being so stressed all these things because that's not reality that's where like even if we come back full circle to this stuff, and athletes are the same way, is, like, you have to inch them there,

because as much as stress does play a part, that ain't going anywhere. Like, people don't just stop everything, learn how to meditate, start to exercise, start to control their calories. It's, like, one thing at a time. You try to go all in on that shit, and, like, they're more likely to fail, unless you're, like, type A and all that stuff, but then interestingly enough i feel like as i've gotten older i've gotten more stress because i have like more things i'm trying to be successful in and like more things i'm trying to work towards yeah but i also have more like parts of my life that are stress-free than ever

so like now it's like i have moments that are twice stressful than that i have ever had before but i also have moments where i'm stressful than I have ever had before. But I also have moments where I'm stress-free, whereas before I never had moments like that. Yeah. So I'm kind of like wondering where my body's at right now. It's like – Well, it's kind of like – I hate you. I love you all day.

Well, it's kind of like it comes back to that whole philosophical – like we've heard a lot of like what's your why? But like at the end of the day, like what is the end? What's your goal? And sometimes for like let's say you would be super successful business for me. It's probably like more, more money, more problems. But like,

I would almost rather, that shit's real, but I would rather have a sweet life. Like we've done, like I basically cleared on, like I went to Ben houses thing and flow, but I was pulled out in the jungle and I realized how not shitty my life was, but how much stress was in my life that I didn't know.

Big house mortgage, like two new vehicles. I was working way too many hours i was always studying and all this shit and i was just like my life's fucked so like i sold my house we got into a place that was like half the mortgage um i went to online that was kind of all within that transition so i went from like 30 hours a week to i'm not gonna tell you how many hours but it, but it's less. But I have more time to spend with my dog, more time to spend with my wife. I can train more, but I can train more consistently in my diets.

So like everything kind of went toward trying to be less stressed, but I was happier than ever. And I know a lot of people that make a lot more money than me. I bought a boat this summer and I used my boat fucking all summer. All my friends that are busy with business stuff,

super rich, didn't use any of their money because they're too busy doing shit. And I'm almost at the point where I'm cool with where I'm at. But that's me trying to practice what I preach. But that was a process. That was like a year. And I'm a type A person who doesn't have kids and a stressful job.

My job is pretty fucking sweet. So that's not realistic for most people. So before you got into all this, what was your body type at the time? So you just got done playing football. Probably you're about to go become a teacher. I was just a lean muscle head. Like I was like a DB linebacker type. So like I was just always lean, always like look the way I do. Um, so you're pretty similar to you are now. I'm pretty similar to how I was now. Like I'm obviously bigger, but your nutrition is significantly different. Absolutely. I didn't even do anything nutrition until i was like way into powerlifting because i didn't need to and again that's not fucking normal so i mean like that's it was effortless until i need to get the next level and then for me right

now i was like how do i get bigger because i needed a goal that didn't fuck me up like powerlifting fucked me up i have like a knee surgery a hip surgery from football and i decided powerlifting was the best thing for that like obviously that wasn't yeah obviously um so what can i do to like not be so fucked and it's like well i'll just do like bodybuilding stuff but like i realized how hard it was to actually take steps up without having that stuff in line because once you get to a certain point it's hard like some people don't find it hard but i say the majority of people find that that's the next step once you have the basic rocks of like being good stuff if you want to go to the next level that's what i was going to say so whatever your body type was that then which sounds like it was very similar and then the knowledge that you have

now yeah and then like you selling your house going down lower and all of these things like were you like what are like probably like the three things that you wish you knew when you're like 10 years ago i wish you would have changed i would have done nutrition i probably would have ate way more like just even like having more protein, more carbs. And I kind of started that. I was in kind of the bodybuilding scene as a teenager, you know,

teenational and shit, but I would have actually, yeah, it was like my jam. Yeah. But like, what the fuck? I wanted anaconda.

I couldn't afford anaconda. Yeah. I don't want this shit. Like Christian Thibodeau uses it, but I would have done that. And I would have probably looked at, well, sleep for one. I wouldn't, I would have drank it. You would have still drank, is that what have probably looked at, well, sleep for one.

I wouldn't have. I would have drank. You would have still drank, is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's just so many good times with it. When you're young, you have to do it. I would have eaten more. I would have actually tried to sleep.

Oh, man, dude, my sleep was not good for a long time. I just didn't care. I don't know how I competed in college. We would drink all the time. I wouldn't sleep. I'd play MMOs on my computer with all our... I'd play Halo 2 and Halo 3 all night with the football team,

so I guess maybe that's why. And I ate like shit, and I was just good at stuff. So that was hard. I would have probably told myself to focus on some of the recovery stuff, and honestly not try so hard when I was in the gym. So I would have had better... This has nothing to do with food stuff, but I would have probably told myself to focus some of the recovery stuff and honestly not try so hard when i was like in the gym so i would have had better like this has nothing to do with food stuff but i would have knowing now i know about strength training and positional stuff and just how to lift i would have done it way differently because that's what ended up fucking me up the most was

injuries the food recovery maybe that all kind of played into it but i would have learned how to lift from someone who knows shit but like i got this 18-year-old kid to 23, you don't know shit. But when you say, don't take it so seriously, what does that mean? What I mean is I would have not tried to PR in the gym all the time.

It ended up putting me probably too big and too stiff in the sagittal plane because that's all we did was bilateral lifts and I was really good at them. So that's why I went right to powerlifting, but I think I would have been a better athlete had I not tried to just... But that's why I'm in this industry. I like lifting more than I like football. So would I change it?

No, but that's what I would tell. I would have done more athletic training and not west side fucking... It's funny. I was on an Olympic bobsled team and I remember my... So I did it for five years. My second year in, I was training with these two girls who won – they won the silver medal in Torino. Yeah.

And it's these two-girl bobsledders, two-girl team. And I remember right before we were getting ready to push the sled in the summer practice, they whipped out this, like, big foam roller. And I was like, what the fuck is that? They're like, you've never foam rolled before? I was like, no. I'd never even seen one. She starts foam rolling her IT band. She puts me on it.

I was like, I can't even touch this thing. Then she's like, you don't do anything for recovery? I was like, what's recovery? I didn't even know anything. Then it was just amazing to me. She's like like if you really want to have a good career yeah if you really want to be a good athlete start unlocking some things that you never knew you had you just started doing a couple things and like i went to her house like you know with like quite frequently after that and uh she was lesbian so i had no chance you tried though she was beautiful though good for her

um anyway like she would show me all these different things to do and i i found the lacrosse ball and i found the foam roller and i found all these things and i was like wow i was i've been fucking up for so long and it's crazy like like what the fuck were you doing it's crazy that's where like we're in a world now we're all all the stuff is available it's almost like there's too much because now there's the whole camp where you don't do that shit but like it like, it's kind of like you come up, it's like you just need to do shit better. And, like, at that point, like, none of us knew anything.

And even the coaches didn't. Like, the Bob said girl, like, not your coach. No, she wasn't my coach. Just some chick with the foam roller. Yep. And then you go read Supple Leopard. Like, you go on YouTube and Kelly Sturetz doing his thing. And, like, that was kind of the entry into it into it like that's probably where you went right after like

yeah i don't remember what i was looking up but at the time because i found crossfit later on and that was when i found kelly starrett and all that stuff okay which is crazy because now i say what's up to him and like shake his hand i saw him yesterday i was like i was almost starstruck i was like oh that's that's why does he have a beard but he's legitimately one of the most amazing humans ever, too. He's so funny, so witty. He has great stories. He just made a joke about me.

He was talking to someone. I'm like, just so you know, I'd rather just make an introduction. Just FYI, I'm not running that race with you. He's like, yeah, you are, bro. I don't think you know me. I ain't running that race. Dude, he's a maniac. But he could do it.

I was like, you're going to just do that race again? Yeah. And he's paddleboarded But he could do it. I was like, you're going to just do that race again? Yeah. And he's like paddle boarded from island to island in Hawaii and done huge canoe races. I mean, I've talked to him

about mountain bike races that I've done and he's done all of them. I'm like, Jesus, man, you've done everything. Both just love Kelly. So he's just a cool dude.

Maybe we should invite Kelly over to the house. I actually thought about getting him on and he said he always has time for his friends and I was like, oh,

I feel good about that. Was he implying that you were a friend or that he wasn't going to do it? No, no, and he said he always has time for his friends, and I was like, oh, I feel good about that. Was he implying that you were a friend or that he wasn't going to do it? No, no, that he would have time. So we'll see. I think that'd be cool. I might have him over at the house. I should get my book from the sign. Would that be weird?

No. I'll get him to sign my chest. Hunter McIntyre actually said that his head looked like a roasted potato. Thank you. The different indentations that he makes with his facial impressions. He's very bald. He actually kind of does. Now I can't get back. Oh, it's a baked potato.

Sorry. A baked potato? Yeah. So now I can't get past it. He looks like just a baked potato. So anyway. Anyways. Those are your big three things.

I like that. That's pretty good. Basically, don't be an idiot. Yeah. And like probably, yeah, yeah, don't be an idiot. But, like, it worked. So, like, I wouldn't change it, though. Like, I loved my, I loved, I think if I didn't go through that, that was, like, the whole,

like, doing things wrong to kind of get to the other side, I probably wouldn't be where I am. But, that being said, like, always, like, where would I have been if I ate carbs? You know what I mean? Like, with CrossFit. Like, who knows? That's everything, though. Like, where would you be in business if you didn't fucking fuck something up where would you be you have to be everything has to get fucked up i think most of the best people are fucking idiots like they were they totally were you can ask them a story but there

was always something because like the people that want to get better try shit and you get like at this point like you have to like dabble and learn and try to get better because there's a lot of people who just learn stuff, but they don't actually do anything about it. That's where the fucking gains are made. What type of education stuff are you doing right now? Obviously, you're part of this platform where you get to hear people speak all the time. Are you watching those videos? Are you doing any readings specifically that you like? No, my personal preference. Right now, I'm kind of on a PRI kick, but a lot of people

that I'm- What's PRI? PRI Postural Restoration Institute. It's just kind of like a medical model, clinical model, but I'm not into that. But like a lot of the people I learn from are just kind of showing people new ways to what position is and what the intention. So a lot of the stuff we've been doing is known to be true, isn't working the way it's working because of the way we think it's working and so it's just kind of categorizing things and making things easier to understand but also like coaching cues and what it feels for someone so long story short like putting well coaching better yeah we're using using a lot of modalities so like i've taken

ever see dns fuck it i've taken everything because i was in search to fix my knee but like just higher level stuff and then trying to create my own model and just show people what's up what's wrong with your knee oh fuck that that was uh because you know i have a really bad knee it's like the reason yeah yeah so i had a tumor on there but like i had a scope and then i had hip surgery um acetabulum remodel to cut out my half my labrum and fix my femur anyways long story short i say that a lot um when i was power lifting i decided to take a break to try to run a marathon squat 600 deadlift 600 and in the same weekend and so i was training for that with a fucked up i was fucked up because i was powerlifter i was super stiff at that time because

i got so strong in those lifts it was not good like i kind of got to like marathon pace and then my knee just started like it was probably tracking around the whole time but that's what the camel that broke the the straw that broke the camel yeah there you go so like just again being stupid yep yeah so yeah that's what's wrong with me dude i did a lot of dumb shit when i first started crossfit it's unbelievable yeah unbelievable it's what's wrong with me. Dude, I did a lot of dumb shit when I first started CrossFit. It's unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. It's like anything CrossFit-esque.

Like, so that would have been like CrossFit-esque in my world. It was like, you're going to run a marathon and squat and deadlift 600. Like, oh, that'd be sweet. But like, in my head, knowing I know now, I had no goddamn right trying that. Like, obviously, if it's something bad, it was going to happen. But like, it sounded cool. The coolest thing I'd done was I squatted 500 pounds and I ran a marathon in like 330 in the same day. Yeah. See, like, good thing we weren't friends because like i would have tried i would

have been like no trading like i that's like i'm in a better place and i did it in anders gym actually he was there he was there when i did it it was pretty pretty amazing time but see that's the stuff that fucks you up so it's one of those things where i'm in a place now where i kind of want to not like i don't know how you were back, but the way I was when I was a powerlifter and like, I was like at an elite levels, like I was a fucking dick. Like I was angry all the time. Like I was stressed probably from training and like the fact that like I had to go deadlift 700 in my training this weekend.

Like that's going to fucking scare you. Yeah. Because I'm thinking about it all week. And like I was smelling ammonia before my big lifts. Mike, my wife's fucking awesome that she dealt with me. Like, so anyways, like part of that is like, that was the shift away from that because it just wasn't healthy for my lifestyle like and a lot of people in crossword probably the same way until they're broken is that like they try really fucking hard and they'll put their head through a fucking wall but when you're trying

to like be better and like live longer and like be a little bit more happier like that just didn't fit in so like my circumvention for that was like just get bigger and don't do fucked up shit i'm still doing a little bit though i still do to like like i'm still dead lifting lots oh yeah for sure i saw your video i'm just like everything else is kind of in line because it definitely wasn't back then i get so bummed because i have so many friends that are athletes that are competing still and they're like they always ask me do you want to try it for another year i'm like dude i just like i literally i kept saying yes to like when people ask me that stuff for like three years too long and now like i there's a lot of things i like literally just cannot do anymore my body like it just tells me like right now it's like it'll be like no like you cannot do that movement when

your bucket's just full like like the stuff you're doing with your career and all that stuff like that is all acute stress and like doing crossfit just pushes you over the edge but what they think is they think that um they think they think that like nothing's going to happen to them and i'm like no it's going to happen because like you're you're like a lot of the people that you followed as you're starting in the sport they're getting older and they're all hurt yeah so like it's not that it's not going to happen to you. It's when is it going to happen to you? So like, why don't you do some of these things that we're talking about now and save your

fucking career or like save, like at least make it longer. Yeah. Just like, that's what I mean. Not try as hard. Yeah. Be like, save it for when it matters. Cause like you're probably the same way as like sometimes like in the gym lifts and like flexing some muscles is like, was more important sometimes.

And like, those are the times when I probably would have pulled back and like be smarter and that's all kind of coming to fruition now is like now nutrition is a thing now stress is a thing now sleep's a thing like it seems stupid but like it's like oh yeah sleep is a thing um training structure to have like even deloads and stuff that shit wasn't normal yeah and like it probably would have helped a lot of things don't like even with the sleep like don a lot of things. Don't like, even with the sleep, like don't be super stressed at work or like take a, like if you're going to be a high level athlete, you probably shouldn't be working as job where you're super stressed and you

don't sleep and all that stuff. Cause that's going to fuck your, the training is going to be the thing that pushes you over the edge. And then you're not going to be good at the thing you want to be good at. So like literally your life is fucking up the thing you want to be good at, but the thing you want to be good at is not coherent with your life. Yeah. So like you gotta, you gotta. So you've got to figure it out. So being part of the Stronger Experts now,

what are some of the things you're looking forward to at the moment? The biggest thing right now, and it'll kind of be on Barbell Shrugged, they'll be pushing it, but we have a project called Stronger Jamaica where we bring a few experts down, like Top Level Speed Guy and Olympic Lifting, and we go down there, we align with a gym down there, we bring a few experts down, like top-level speed guy and Olympic lifting, and we go down there. We align with a gym down there. We have a contact that is bringing up sprinters to kind of take the next step, and we go and teach the coaches and the sprinters our shit.

And then so we bring people down together, and it's kind of like a whole experience. So we're redoing that again, and this time, Johan Blake's going to be involved because he saw what we did last time. So we have like the badass sprinter in the world kind of part of it and again it's to make that experience for the people that are coming they're gonna watch some of the best coaches coach learn from them eat with them break bread with them yeah but like drink go in the pool like have all the things that we wanted as coming up and that's the next thing that's that's the next big thing we have some stuff planned planned in Switzerland and Poland, but that's not for sure yet.

And then just pushing the platform. So basically trying to just structure stuff so people can learn the way we wanted to learn as younger. That's really cool. I like it. But Jamaica's sweet. I haven't been. It's fucked, though. When we say Jamaica, we were literally in the heart of Kingston.

That's the gnarly area. Yeah, I was pretty scared when I first got there. But you're kind of with locals. Yeah. It's just chaos there. The cops pulled up beside us when we were in the van in the middle of Kingston. They had machine guns. They were tapping, like, are you okay?

No, we're not hostages. We're good. Oh, jeez. My wife's like, you're in the crime... There's a warning in there to travel there. Are you sure you're okay? I'm like, ah, we're with Jamaicans. We're good.

Yeah, that is nuts. Yeah. It's a different area for sure, and those guys are fast. They're fast. For a reason. They're literally – I'm not going to trash their training, but they're so fast for the shit they do. They don't even – They're not doing anything smart.

They're just fast. We're talking about diets. Just eat shit. Eat whatever. Yeah, and be fast. It's a pretty good training. So hopefully you guys have a large impact on it. That would be sweet. Yeah eat shit. Eat whatever. Yeah. And be fast. It's a pretty good trip. So hopefully you guys have a large impact on it. That'd be sweet.

Yeah, that's kind of our goal. They're really protected down there. So we went to Usain Bolt track, where he trained with, I think it's Gary Mills, and he was the most prolific track coach. And they didn't want to talk to us because we ended up talking to them because we paid off the security guard. And we made a joke about hockey, and then we're in. He wouldn't tell us anything. I'm like tell us anything we're just here to scout fucking hockey

players he's like but like they don't want to tell us anything they think we're going to steal their secrets i'm like listen bud like we don't want your secrets like we your secrets aren't even good like the secret is like genetics and like yeah it's awesome like obviously there's some coaching elements to it and stuff like they're not stupid but like we couldn't steal it if we tried because like what are you you tell us like just eat fucking plantains and like sugar drinks and like and spoke tons of weed like yeah that's that might work maybe that's what we bring back like you're in cal it's california like i don't think you can't so that's that's really the big project now yeah that's working with the jamaican team that's of the, that's the first step to a lot of the stuff

we're setting up because basically those events kind of set us up for the next one and the next one. Yeah, and you had people

like Johan that are like great. Yeah, and just started creating connections to build the business up but then also structure it so like the people

that are involved so like the Travis Match, Justin Cavanaugh, like the Barbell Shrugged and like whoever comes out is like, they like those things because it's sweet for them.

Like these are high level people and they're coming to help us out because it's an experience. So we just want to do more of that shit probably a little bit personally because it's sweet to go down there and do that shit. But it's also, that's where we see education going. We want to do education that way so we need to start

getting good at doing it that way. And no one's really doing it so we just need to basically set up connections and bring people along so that they buy in because i think anyone that went there bought in because it was sick but to tell people something sick and actually experience it that's kind of our goal is to make that normal and if they weren't there they could see it on on the online program yeah like and get the content so like our we haven't got the second video but like it's released on the platform so if you weren't there and you're a yearly subscriber, you just get that content. And that alone is worth the money of the yearly subscription.

It's like $365. So last year they did a thing with Mike Zertel and Dr. Pat Davidson in New York. That's filmed up there. And they get to go to a seminar. It costs $400 to go to for less than it costs to go to, which is fucked. I'm thinking of it, but yeah. Wait, so to go to that thing was $400? Yeah.

And they just get it as a yearly subscriber because it's like we already filmed it and like we got the content and we oh they get a year subscription with going uh

going to I think they got four months for free but if you're a yearly subscriber on Stronger Experts and you didn't go to the seminar which cost $400 you get that video uploaded

when we kind of edit it and put it on so it's like they were there oh that's cool it's one of those things where like when you're 18 years old like again shit's expensive and put it on. So it's like they were there. Oh, that's cool. It's one of those things where like when you're 18 years old, like again, shit's expensive. Like that's not our way. It's like, obviously it's a, it's a business model thing, but like it's.

Everybody's got to make money somehow. Everyone's got to make money somehow, but like we're okay with that. I feel good about that. Yeah. You guys are doing something really cool. So like the other guy, what was his name again? Phil. Phil.

So I was talking to Phil and he was telling me about it and I was like well why would I sign up for your thing? It sounds like a lot of like podcast stuff that is given out for free kind of but now they're in like a group where it's like a little bit

more specific and then he's like no no no check this out and he showed it to me for those of you who are listening. It sounds like a sales pitch and it's like really not. Like I kind of felt that way

a little bit right. I just like wanted to know the difference and then when he was showing it to me there's like PowerPoint slides that are up. You actually feel like you're learning something, which I think is cool. They're giving their good shit.

Obviously, part of it is a relationship. They give part of what they do so you go learn more about them. But that shit is better than the shit that most people are going to. We have way better shit. Obviously, we went to a Dr. Pat Davidson seminar, Rethinking Big Patterns. Anyways, he puts some of that stuff on there. Obviously, you're going to get way more if you pay someone $400 to go to their 20-hour seminar. But if you don't know this stuff exists or you don't know where you're going, it's kind of like we're giving them a roadmap.

We're literally saying, listen to these fucking dudes because they're all legit. And you're posting the nuggets. We're posting the nuggets. And there's a lot of not nuggets, if that makes sense. But again, we're saying we think that we have a good formula in terms of people that are going to build your career that we wish we would have known about instead of trying to fucking find things on T Nation and spending God knows how much money going to whatever fucking seminar. Here they are. Do what you will. You still have to be a good coach.

You still have to problem solve. You probably still have to go learn more, but we'll make it a little bit fucking easier. It's not that much money. Because most trainers pay a lot more fucking money to go to conferences where they listen to someone for an hour, five of them,

and then they don't network because they're introverted. So how does everyone find this platform? It's on www.strongerexperts.com. Super easy. Instagram is Stronger Experts. Stronger Experts. What's your Instagram?

My Instagram's at guido.power. G-U-E-D-O.power. Because when I made it, I was a power lifter. So naturally, last name, power. Yeah. Yeah. And when I put this up on the show, you guys will have his handle. I'll tag it.

Yeah. But yes, dude, thank you so much. I love having you on. It's a lot less dirtier than I anticipated. We just met for anyone that didn't know. Ryan likes to talk shit. That's the best thing. I say a lot of inappropriate things, as you guys know.

It just kind of depends on how the conversation goes. But this one was a little more serious for sure. But your partner, your buddy, was telling me he was going to give me a little membership code to check out the platform. So I'm excited to check out some stuff. I almost want you to come to Jamaica. I think I'm going to try to come on this next one just to like be there because like obviously you have an influence and stuff but like i got invited to the last one i just couldn't make it it's really hard to like explain to you there but it's it's kind of like

what we're experiencing this weekend just in jamaica with jamaicans yeah and like seeing sprinters it's just kind of fucking cool you can't see jamaican sprinters unless you go to jamaica and do they hang out with you guys after too it It ended up being like that because everyone liked the project coming back to the house and stuff. Johan came to the house. So it's one of those things where I don't know Johan, but I'm sitting there and I'm taking fucking pictures because he's on the podcast. I'm telling my friends, I'm like, fucking Johan Blake's here.

I just talked to Johan Blake and he shook my hand and he said, I look big. And I'm like, that's the nugget. Yeah, there you go. That's awesome. Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on the show look big and like that's the nugget yeah there you go that's awesome yeah man well dude thank you so much for having uh coming on the show and and uh and being on and i hope that uh the rest of this weekend goes great i'm excited to hear all the new people and meet new people and hope you guys check out his instagram check out stronger experts uh eventually i'm gonna be

making some posts let you guys know what i think of the program obviously i'm probably gonna like it but i know like i'm just excited. I've been beaking him on DM. I just post my lifts. Now I know it's pain point. I'm just going to post my lifts to you every day, probably.

I'm like, where are you, man? He went mountain biking instead of coming to deadlift, which is like, whatever. But I did work out that day. That's true. I still worked out.

Yeah, okay. Fair. You said you have a life. Good for you. I did say, you've got to figure it out. But now I don't know after this conversation we'll talk after all right guys see you guys next week and if you guys want to see some more information that's going on out here in lake tahoe you guys can follow the spartan race and check out the world championships not only is it

going to be a running event but they're also mixing together a crossfit event too so if you guys follow like jacob heppner or chandler smith Smith or Hunter McIntyre or any of those guys, a lot of them and a bunch of the other female athletes, I can't remember their name right now, they're all going to be competing out here and you guys should definitely check it out. And I'm going to have a lot more episodes coming up for you guys on the next upcoming Tuesdays that are going to be all from Lake Tahoe. See you guys next week. All right, guys, that is today's show. I hope that you loved it. Again, if you did love it, make sure you tag myself and Mr. Dean Guido on the gram. And then as far as everything else goes with me, I got the new earn your carbs challenge going down. It starts October 30th, which is

probably today if you're listening to this show. And I will have a one-week late sign-up for people who did not get in beforehand. The only thing is you only have three weeks to win that cash instead of four. And then as far as the other books go that I have on in my online store, you guys always get 25% off for being Real Chalk listeners. All you have to do is type in REALCHALK in all capital letters at the website jimryan.com. That's G-Y-M-R-Y-A-N.com. You guys get 25% off all the books, high intensity interval bodybuilding, dumbbell books, kettlebell books. I have so much stuff going on. I have the collaboration with Mr. Diaz on the dark horse

training, which is making people really, really, really good at CrossFit and interval workouts in general, or anyone who just really wants to be in that window of suck and wants to get really, really, really good at it. All right. There is a ton of stuff on there. And the old carb cycling challenge is now a guide that is no longer a challenge, but it is a purchasable guide. You also get a month of free talk online on there. You get a month of one of my 30 day books to go with it. And you're in a Facebook group for life where I do live Q and A's all the time. So there is just so much stuff going on there. It's literally my entire life.As all the time. So there is just so much stuff going on there. It's literally my entire life. It is the culmination of what is Ryan Fisher and I will not

let you down. I try to put the best content in there that I can and then in the live Q&As, I just answer questions all the time. Really, really good ones too that people have. Sometimes they're not even fitness related and I also do live Q&As sometimes in the Chalk Online groups. So for the Chalk Online groups, I program on my app. I have a crossfit workout, a sweat workout, and a daily D workout, which is dumbbell, jump rope, and a pull-up bar only. So it's great for people who are traveling or people who have limited equipment at home, stuff like that. And I do live Q&As in that group as well. A whole bunch of groups, a whole bunch of talks. But anyway, guys, yes, again, hope you guys love the show. That's all my stuff. Hope you guys, you know, check some of that stuff out at

some point. And I will see you guys next week. Thanks for listening to the show.