Barbell Shrugged - BS INTERVIEW SERIES - EP1 w/Matt Baird

Episode Date: March 20, 2013

Mike interview CrossFit Games hopeful Matt Baird who is currently (at time of posting) ranked 2nd in the 2013 CrossFit Open right behind Rich Froning.

Hey guys, this is CTP and you're listening to the Barbell Shrugged interview series. If you're friends with us on Facebook or Twitter, then you're going to know when we go live for one of these interviews. This is going to be something brand new that we're doing where we have more access to more people to get cool interviews for you guys. So it's separate from the podcast. We're still going to have one of those every Wednesday. You can go to barbellshrugged.com for the video version and then the audio version

as always is on iTunes. Once we do this interview, after it is live, we will post this interview on our iTunes account as well. So stay tuned. Who knows what's in store? Tater tots. What's up guys? This is Mike Bledsoe here with Matt Baird. This is Barbell Shrug Interview Series. Something we're trying new, trying to go live and seeing if this Spreaker thing works. I learned about this from Mr. John North, and it seems to be serving him pretty well. He's a lot better guest than me. I don't know about that. As far as interest goes, y'all are pretty close.

Real quick, make sure if this is the first time you're listening to Barbell Shrugged, this is just a quick interview. If you want to see the whole show with me, Doug, and Chris more, then you ought to check out barbellshrugged.com. We have a newsletter there. You can go sign up for that, and we'll notify you anytime we post anything new. All right? So we're sitting down with Matt Baird right now,

and we're doing our first remote interview with him. So we're stepping off into new territory. And the reason we're talking about him uh first is he is one of the coaches that you can hire on barbell shrug.com if you go to the shop and if you want someone to program for you and tell you not how not to screw yourself up uh he's a good guy for that. But in addition to that, he's ranked number two in the world for, uh, for, uh, the CrossFit Games Open. We're in week two. So can you tell us a little about that, Matt?

Yeah, man. First of all, thanks for having me on. I'm trying to be cordial because this is a phone interview and I can't look at you strange when I, when I compliment you in the show. Um, but, uh for having me on. I'm trying to be cordial because this is a phone interview and I can't look at you strange when I compliment you in the show. But, yeah, man, this is an interesting concept. Like I said, I'm sure the listeners would have rather heard John Norris and him talking about big weight rather than competitive exercise for time and reps. But I guess I'm the only person you can get a hold of. So thanks for having me.

But, dude, yeah, man, pretty excited. Kind of been talking to some different people over the last few days based on result, and, you know, I'll tell you the same thing kind of I've told them, and it's that, you know, obviously I'm very happy getting off to a good start. But by no means does this mean anything in terms of placement for the regional or the games. All it does is really provide a bit of confidence moving forward, right? You know, it's a competition. And I think that competitors that say that the Open doesn't matter,

I think that's more of an ego thing because we're competitors and we're competitors and we're in a competitive sport. And any time that you can compare against your peers, whether in your region or in the world, it's going to serve a positive purpose. It's either going to, you know, humble you and sort of force you to recognize that maybe you need to change your training strategy based on, you know, kind of what you interpret that HQ is

going to be throwing at you for later competitions, or it's going to serve as kind of like a, Hey, we're on a good track, but I don't have any, any kind of delusion of, you know, this means that I'm going to win this or win that. It's just, it's kind of one of those things where you take it week to week. And if you do well on that week, you know, you're able to sort of assess and be in a positive position, and it serves as kind of, you know, kind of just a confidence platform, you know. But the biggest thing I've been talking about most, man, is just, if anything, it forces you to be more mentally tough because, you know, dude, I would be lying if I said I didn't like seeing my name

next to, you know, guys like Dan Bailey and Rich and Josh. And these are guys that not only I admire as men, but as competitors. And so it's one of those things where, you know, I obviously don't want to see my name drop, but at the same time, CrossFit is a very humbling sport, and it's, you know, you could do great, do great week one, and all of a sudden, a burpee wad come up, and you, you know, are a bigger guy, and you get, you know, four less burpees than the guys at 5'6", and you're 6'2", or something, and all of a sudden, you don't, you know,

you are no longer talked about, so it's one of those things where it provides a good feeling moving forward, but by no means has this cemented me or anything about the upcoming season. Now, some people don't think that it matters how they do in the Open as long as they get to regionals, but it does matter about what heat you're going to be in uh do you see a lot of benefit from being you know holding those first you know five to ten spots so that you can be in that particular heat oh dude i you know here's the deal you know i have been pretty you know in terms of the average person i guess i've been pretty, you know, in terms of the average person, I guess I've been pretty successful, right?

I've gotten top eight or nine in the Open the last two years in my region. And, you know, in 2011, I finished, you know, in seventh, and I was in third place going into the second day and kind of lost my podium position and had one finish on the side of the top ten. And in 2012, you know, I was in third and kind of tweaked my back and fought my way through and had to withdraw, I think, in eighth place. So in terms of, you know, I don't view it as success, but, you know, you could view it as, you know, I've been decently successful in the sport.

And I completely think that being in a top heat, for me at least, is important. And that's just from a mental side of, dude, you know, CrossFitters are very good at score topping. And I don't mean by cheating or by, you know, missing reps. I mean, dude, if you do a 10-minute AMRAP and you perceive that the top rounds are going to be 11 and then you see someone do 12 well now your brain can comprehend that you know what 12 is humanly possible and and and we're very good at that and i don't just mean top level competitors i mean anyone dude and if you look across competitions

i mean i'm sure there's some outliers but dude is there it's kind of like a chicken before the egg does the last team always have the best times because it's the best athletes? Or do they have the best times because they've had a chance to watch the workout and watch athletes' strategies play out and watch where they struggle and where they need to speed up and slow down

and watch where, you know, kind of develop a strategy by observation, dude. So, yeah, I think that placement matters. And like I said, man, you know, the Open is a competition. And anyone that doesn't think it's important, I mean, I understand, you know, guys saying things like, look, the only thing that matters is you just got to get to regionals. And that's a good strategy for someone if you just are able to keep your head down and stay mentally tough and mentally focused, not worry about things around you, and you create the pace or you set the pace.

But I definitely don't think he can hurt being in the last heat, man. I'll tell you right now that I was talking to somebody today, and I don't think I go faster necessarily around people. I think I go faster when I know that it counts. Like, you know what I mean? Like training speed and game speed is different. And I think for me, game speed is different because there's something on the line there. It's important. It's not just another training session. And there's a, there's a result that happens from this.

There's a, there's a play thing that happens from there. So, um, but at the same time, dude, I mean, you can feel when people are passing you and you're going to say, shit, I need to speed up, or you can feel when you're out ahead of the pack, you know what I mean? So that's kind of, that's kind of where I'm at with, with that. But yeah, man, I do. And just in short, yes, I think it's important. And I think, you know, I don't think there's been many people who started in the last heat and ended up, excuse who started in the last heat and ended up, excuse me, in the first heat and ended up in the last so much of the games.

You know what I mean? So you've done pretty well in the past during the Open. But so how did you place last year in the Open? I think I've either placed eighth or ninth both years in a row. And I've kind of had like one bad workout where you can play a numbers game. You're like, oh, if I had gotten, you know, like four more snaps last year, I would have been in the top three in my region. And the year before that, I think if I had done like, you know, like a round or a half a round more on the 11.1, I would have been like top four.

But, you know, I think everyone can say that, man. But, yes, I do think it's important, man. And, you know, I could be, you know, talk to some person who's been more successful than me and they could show me a different perspective that might make me think different. But for me and kind of the way I like to do things, I like to position myself in a manner or at least do the best I can

to position myself in a manner that, you know, will hopefully, you know, give me a better chance of winning. You know what I mean? And, you know, sometimes, you know, you need a little bit of luck, too, man. It's just a very strange sport. But, yeah, I think positioning does matter, man. So since you've been, it appears that you're doing, you're better this year than maybe last year. Are you, were you like peaking for the Open

or are you seeing this as just another training session? I say no to both answers. No, first of all, I think I'm better this year. And I kind of just, I had a pretty cool article written about me from this guy, from HQ, Jerry Ruggiero. And I alluded to him and Pat Sherwood yesterday that the biggest difference in my game is two things.

Number one, I am more mentally there. You know, and with respect to humility, I think I've had the physical tools to, to, to go to the games the last two years, but I have not been good enough. And the reason I haven't been good enough is because it's just not about the physical tools. It's about the mental approach and it's about dealing with adversity, mid workout or mid competition.

And it's about getting the snakes out of your own head and trusting your fitness and letting your body determine your outcome and your will determine your outcome, not your mind. And so I think that that's the biggest change in my game. And I can't go without saying that. I did, for the first year this year, hire a coach in CJ Martin,. Martin, a prospect and victus,

and I've made tremendous physical gains. But the biggest thing I can attribute to hiring C.J. specifically is that C.J. demands his athletes to be mentally tough. And when I say demands, I mean that he is as focused on your approach and your attitude and your perception of your fitness and your ability to deal with adversity in, during competition, mid-workout, before workout, after workout,

as he is your physical result. And if you look at his athletes across the board, yes, he coaches some of the best athletes in the world in Charles Ferguson, Camille LeBlanc, and Jenny LeBall, and Asia Borto, and to name a few. But, dude, if you look at all of these people, they're not just all extremely physically gifted. They're all extremely physically gifted and extremely mentally tough. And I think that CJ plays a huge role in that, man.

And if you talk to him, you know, he's going to, you're going to get that from him. You know, his normal members in his gym, you know, have, there's a different, there's a different feel over there at Invictus and they're, they're doing it a little bit different, man. And, and the feel is that, you know, whether you're a games caliber athlete or whether you're a person that's just looking to use fitness as a vehicle for health and longevity, everyone over there is mentally tough. And I think that that is built in inherently in his program.

And I think that some of it is due to kind of just being around TJ and interacting with him and hearing some of his better athletes and Josh Burgess kind of echo his approach. But it's also seeing his training sessions in the sense that, you know, I fail more often in training than I ever have before. And I don't mean like fail on workouts necessarily, but we do things that force your body to either break down and figure out a way through it it or you adapt and break through the wall. And I've never really had that in training before. I've never had to come to decisions mid-workout

where my body physically can't pull anymore. Or, you know what I mean? And I think there's merit to that, man. I think that it's not blasting yourself every day because by all means, CJ has forgotten more exercise than I think most people will ever learn. But there's an intelligence to his program coupled with a bit of mental brutality that really elicits a pretty cool stimulus, man. stimulus man and I think that you know CJ has forced me to eliminate you know some negativity in in myself in terms of you know my past performances and struggles and has and has

really forced me to kind of it's kind of like you know mid-workout dude you know you've got a choice you can either you know you can either fucking fail or succeed to put it simply you know and it's and it's going to be up to you. No one else is going to be out there with you. So I just, I think that that's the biggest difference, man. It's just, you know, that's why my game is, has, has risen. And I think that, you know, I, you know, I'm sure there's going to be adversity during the open and I'm sure I'll be able to look back at a workout where gold is my final placing that I can look at and say, man, you know, I kind of broke there mentally. And I'm sure the same is going to happen in regionals,

but I think that I'm prepared for that. And I don't think I could ever honestly say that. And in terms of training, no, we're not peaking for the Open. But I would also be lying to you if I said that we didn't prepare for it. You know, we've been doing doubles and triples since August. But those doubles and triples have been leading up to May 17th through 19th in West Palm Beach, not for the Open. But, you know, we've prepared ourselves to be ready for the Open

and do well in the Open and let our fitness show in the Open and kind of not for anyone else but kind of prove to ourselves that, you know, we can play with the big boys. And, you know, it's a, you know, it's a, it's a gratifying thing when you're successful, but if adversity comes, you know, you also have to be willing to accept it and fucking be strong enough to continue to perform, you know?

Yeah. Do you, do you think that the most of the mental toughness is coming through the programming or has there been like, I know that CJ is out in California and you're in Atlanta, Georgia. Are there phone conversations? Is there things that he's saying? I know you've been out to training camps with him.

Is there stuff that's happening in person that can only happen through interaction with CJ? Or is it purely through the programming that you feel the mental toughness is really being built? It's a bit of both. CJ is a pretty awesome coach in the sense that, and I don't want to give away a lot of his secrets because he'll probably text me if he hears this and be like, oh, he's the one, you know, what the fuck. But he is really, really good at, you know, I write him notes, you know, every week about my program.

And it's not just my result. It's how I was feeling. It's what happened to me mid-wad. And he wants those notes detailed, man. And I kind of demand the same things out of my clients. Dude, these notes that you're providing because I'm all the way on the other coast, they're going to personalize my program more than any result. You know, CJ's not going to get a lot from, hey, man, you know,

I cleaned 350 today. That's an eight-pound PR. He's going to say, that's great. What he really wants to hear is, you know, hey, man, legs kind of blew up during that fourth 800, breathing got high. You know what I mean? And he's going to be able to use his intelligence and his background and his experience to tweak his template based on my notes

and based on what he sees as far as my successes or failures within those notes. And, dude, he's going to respond back to me with honesty. You know, he's not scared to say, hey, dude, this was a bad day at the gym, or, hey, man, you need to fucking step up to the plate. You know, we just did a, you know, a pretty brutal, you know, like three-part session of our third session of the day, and it was one of those things where I figured out really quickly that I am not very good at cycling heavy hang power cleans.

And, you know, within that, i shot video of myself when i did my workout and i'll be able to send that to him and kind of tell him you know what went through my head mentally when i started to get frustrated and and he'll be able to kind of assess it on a on a coach's level but also probably tell me you know what dude it doesn't fucking matter that you're not good at that there should have been a point where you needed to speed up on this or do that to make up for it so he's really good at being honest. And sometimes that honesty hurts, you know what I mean? But that's all part of that mental toughness. And I think that that's what creates is our interaction. And the fact that, you know, I can shoot him a text, even if

I'm not, I know I'm not going to see his notes before the end of the week, I'm shooting a text and like, dude, you know, fucking blew up today, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or, hey man, you know, you've got me doing, you know, five by 800, dude, I'm really smoked and I feel a little bit under recovered. I'm just going to come and chill and ride the airdyne and he'll provide, you know, an even better solution or say, hey brother, go with it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So how do you think your interaction with CJ has affected your ability to coach other

people? Are you like learning from him and using those methods or do you think your interaction with CJ has affected your ability to coach other people? Are you learning from him and using those methods, or do you kind of have your own style? Well, I think, dude, I think the thing about coaching, right, is that even if you have your own stance and your own style on coaching, you have to continue your education, and you can't be closed-minded. And you can't be closed-minded the more successful you get, you know. And I think that CJ does a great job of that in the sense that he's a pretty successful coach in this area, in this arena. And he's got great athletes and his teams.

You know, I think he's got two teams in the top ten in his regional right now out of his gym. And they've gone to the games. His teams have gone to the games his teams have gone to the games not to mention his individual athletes every year and done well man and he's got a great gym and he runs a great operation and i think what cj does a great job of man is the fact that you know he continues his education and it's funny my training partner zach anderson and i uh and you know you guys should talk to zach right now, like, 18th in the world and third in our region.

I think I train with him every single day. You know, we went out to Invictus for a training camp, and one of the most gratifying things that we saw with CJ was when we walked into his office, he didn't have pictures of all his athletes. He had fucking walls full of books. You know what I mean? And I think that, and, Mike, you know, I've said the same thing to you, dude, and walking into your office, a think that I'm saying, Mike, you know, I've said the same thing to you, dude, and walking into your office.

We'll plug for you there, buddy. Is that is that, dude, you know, that's a good sign, right? You don't want to fucking walk into your coach's office and see nothing but, you know, electronics and fucking cool, you know, like pictures of people. You want to see that he's continuing his education and trying to take as many avenues to learn as many things as possible, even if he doesn't agree with them. He wants to expose himself to as many things as possible. And I'm not trying to plug CJ's programming. can about the sport or the sports in which are covered in crossfit so that he can use it and and and evaluate whether he thinks it works with his athletes and i think that's why you know not only does he have great athletes but i think that's why his athletes are successful man very cool i think we're gonna have to get your friend on here uh sometime in the near future and i know you and i you you and i were talking the other day or yesterday on the phone,

and we were talking about some coaches maybe overanalyzing the way they program and maybe kind of hamstringing the success of their athletes by maybe being too conservative and overthinking movement selection and whatnot. What's your opinion on that? Well, I've always maintained, and this is something I've said to you, and I think you agree with it, is that, first of all, you know, the best, who is my best coach? If you're an athlete and you're on a program and you think wholeheartedly

that the program you're on is the best program for you it doesn't fucking matter whether it's whether you know an accomplished exercise scientist could look at it and say and say dude this is bullshit if your athletes believe wholeheartedly your program it doesn't matter whether a monkey's fucking slapping paint on the wall dude if you're seeing you're seeing benefits from it and the athletes believe in it and they're continuing to progress, well, dude, that is the best program for that athlete, right? And I think that to answer your question, you know, I do think that there are some coaches out there that I don't want to say are too smart, but I think they let their knowledge

hinder them and they try to be too perfect, right? And chasing that type of perfection is, in my opinion, not going to really, you know, really get you anywhere. You know what I mean? I mean, there is no such thing as a perfect training program, man, because there's too many variables of human beings. And within the variability of human beings, there's too many variables with human beings. And within the variability of human beings, there's too many variables with the individual. You know, you might have fucking slept with you last night. You might be, you know, it might be the end of the week versus the beginning of the week.

You might just be better on two things than you are on one day because that's how the fucking God needs you. You know what I mean? So it's like, you kind of, I think that, and this is something I'm learning as a coach, is that, dude, you kind of have to just, you kind of have to realize that, dude, this is science. And it's an experience.

And the worst thing that I don't think coaches tell clients is that, dude, this is a science experiment. And the worst thing about science experiments is sometimes they fail. And that doesn't mean that the person that made it is a bad coach it just means that dude the experiment failed right yeah not every not every cycle can be the success they hope it to be yeah man and it's one of the things go ahead you know you you gotta i i, I'm speaking just based on a little bit of experience in coaching, but a lot of speculation as well, and you can probably answer this better than I can, is that, dude, you have to educate yourself the best you can and consume yourself with information and sort and experiment and see which you think works. But for every athlete that you could sit there and show me that, you know, this is fine exercise law, you know, you could find five mothers or 10 others that could disprove your theory. You know? So at the end of the day, it's like,

it seems as if sometimes these are shots in the dark, you know, and I can tell you, I'm not going to name names, but I think that there are coaches in this game that don't have as much intelligence as others, but they still have successful athletes just because they kind of have their formula and it kind of continues to work. And that's kind of what they're going with. You know what I mean? Yeah.

I mean, hey, go with the result. Don't worry about, I think a lot of times so many people get caught up with what somebody is saying rather than the results they're producing. What do you think? I mean, I'm going to change the subject just a little bit here, but, you know, CrossFit is a sport and we're doing strength and, you know, it's kind of a strength and conditioning sport, but there are times when you need to be practicing the sport of CrossFit, and there are times where you need to be doing, like, strength and conditioning for the sport. What do you think the right ratio of, like, smart strength and conditioning programming versus practicing CrossFit, what do you think that right ratio is, and does it change throughout the year? I think it changes throughout the year i think it changes throughout the year i think it has to and i think you know rich is an anomaly in the sense that in

a positive way you know i think rich is an anomaly in a positive way in the sense that you know he doesn't believe from what i understand in periodization and he kind of does go by the crossfit method of prepared for anything at any time. But I think that, you know, for the rest of us mortals, that it's one of those things where, you know, if you know when the competition is going to be, then it's smart to periodize. Now, with that being said, I think it also differs athlete to athlete. And I think that you've got some athletes based on, you know,

what they need to work on and skills and strengths and level of fitness where you might be able to get, you know, pure conditioning later on in the season, closer to competition. And some people might have a baseline condition that's just not up to par, and they might need to work on that earlier. You know, with that being said, you know, I'm talking to my tech buddy, Mike McGorvick. You know, we, just last night, kind of sent each other through our two days of programming, you know, and Mike is a phenomenal athlete, you know what I mean? And our programs, you know, Mike and I are kind of built the same, but our programs are completely different, dude. And I'll tell you right now that,

you know, I think that, you know, in terms of what I do, you know, I snatch heavy twice a week for load or for reps or for both, and I squat at least heavy at least two times a week, if not three, and I clean heavy at least two times a week for load or reps or both, and I go overhead in a bloated fashion or in a gymnastic fashion almost every day, if not every day. And, you know, it's one of those things where, you know, you might have another athlete and their program might look completely different, you know? Right.

Yeah, I personally have athletes that are all on very different looking programs. I mean, there's going to be maybe three or four different styles that you might end up with depending on what day you're preparing for, how far out you are from competition, and then, you know, what kind of experience you have as an athlete and what you need to shore up. You know, are you weak? Do you have a lot of endurance? Are you strong?

Like, you know, those are all things that need to be addressed yeah exactly man and it's interesting to use mike as an example versus myself you know mike and i have competed kind of friendly rivalry for the last three years now right and mike's been just as successful in the sport as i have and he's been on the precipice of the games just like I have the last two years, right? Especially 2011 when we both were in podium position and then we both ended up kind of fudging for workout and losing it. And, you know, Mike trains under James Fitzgerald, and Mike, you know, I guess from what I understand on Mike's program,

you know, OPT views Mike's strength, his strength base, is that Mike is stronger than most athletes, but Mike needs to work on his movement and his engine a little bit more. I'm like, so, you know, Mike doesn't really lift as much, you know what I mean? And, you know, Mike told me the other day that he has a front squat in like, you know, however long, like a significant amount of time. He front squatted 390. And I said in my program, I do not front squat heavy like twice a week.

Yeah, and that's, and just to note, that's a big PR for Mike. So he hasn't been doing a lot of squatting, but he's hitting big PRs nonetheless. And that's actually a good example of programming differences. Mike is one of those guys who doesn't have to lift heavy all the time in order to keep improving on strength and speed. So different athletes are going to respond differently yeah and i'll tell you for a fact that you know um you know i when before mike and i qualified with opt uh excuse me with cj and mike before my show with opt we were about equal on strength you know i had him on some things he had me on some things. He had me on some things. He was still a better front squatter than me. I'm now a better back squatter than him.

We cleaned, you know, within 10 pounds of each other, five pounds of each other. So we had a similar strength base. I'm smaller, but it's kind of funny in the sense that in using that scenario that we just listed, you know, Mike barely does any lifting, and I lift, you know, I feel like hamburger meat right now because I've done so much

barbell lifting. Matt, real quick, I'm going to have to cut you off because we actually have to go. Anything you want to promote real quick? Real quick, about 10 seconds. I want to promote Barbell Shrug and how great they are. Go ahead and listen to that podcast and learn something. Cool. Alright.

Thanks, Matt. Everyone, make sure to go to barbellshrug.com and sign up for the newsletter. And check out the full video podcast on YouTube. Thanks, guys.