Barbell Shrugged - Build Muscle with Mindfulness: A Masterclass On Understanding Yourself and Your Goals with Ben Pakulski — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #8

Episode Date: March 28, 2019

Ben Pakulski (@bpakfitness) is an IFBB bodybuilding pro who’s competed in the Arnold Classic and Mr. Olympia, and now runs a successful muscle building program and gym in Tampa Florida called Mi40. He also offers business mentorship coaching, hosts the popular Muscle Intelligence Podcast, and travels the world speaking about the practical, scientific, and mental aspects of living a healthy, happy, and fit life.   Ashleigh sits down with IFBB pro bodybuilder, podcast host, and owner of a successful gym and coaching business, the bodybuilding yogi, Ben Pakulski for a deep dive about Ben’s work to change the paradigm of muscle building: to encourage fitness enthusiasts of all ages and backgrounds to approach their goals with as much introspection, mindfulness, and strategic thinking as possible. We cover topics like encouraging young people to find their own personalized approach to fitness; practical ways to reverse-engineer your goals in order to establish clear steps to achieve them; how pain and empathy helps you grow (both in the gym and the rest of your life); and some personal stories about how Ben became the muscle expert that he is—starting out as a skinny, vegetarian runner who was told repeatedly he would never find success in bodybuilding.   Minute Breakdown:   5 - 13 Intro to Ben’s background with and passion for bodybuilding, including the fact that he started as a vegetarian runner and gained 70 pounds in a year through food and training when he was 17   13 – 25 How Ben is trying to change the paradigm around muscle building through his work, including his plan to create resources for teenagers to learn the tools needed to develop their own personalized muscle building program. We discuss the importance of positive influence and direction for young people, and how he encourages his own kids to be fit and healthy   25 - 34  The limitations of our obsession with trying to quantify movements and exercises, and why most people need to focus on mastering the basics before worrying about details   34 - 39  The importance of sticking to the goals you set even when your plans change; knowing you can stick to your word is a base from which so much success and growth can happen. How to pinpoint what gives you joy and make time for those things and be intentional about creating joyful moments so you don’t crave quick fixes or seek comfort with distraction.   39 - 45 through a very personal story about Ben’s upbringing we discuss the importance of relationships, how to invest in them, how to communicate, and how this can inform your health. How pain can help you grow if you find gratitude in the learning experience and bring empathy and understanding to your interactions   45 - 58 – We discuss ways to reverse-engineer our goals by understanding and clarifying what value we bring to the table. A discussion of his work with business mentorship clients   58 -: In goal setting and achieving a happy, healthy, fulfilled life, we talk about how to “find your why” and identify not only what your goals are but why those are your goals, so you have a deep level of clarity when challenges arise   ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/mmr-pakulski ---------------------------------------------------------------------- @whoop: https://www.whoop.com - "Shrugged" for 15% off a WHOOP   ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Hey guys, welcome to Muscle Maven Radio. My name is Ashley Van Houten and I have a big guest today, both literally and figuratively. And I have a big question for you to start off this little intro. And the question is, why do you want to be strong? And I'm going to let you think on that for a bit while I give you an intro into today's guest. Because asking questions like that, I think it's crucial to success in anything. And it's a big part of the reason why people who meet with or work with or listen to my guest today, Ben Pakulski, they immediately want him to be their mentor or their coach or their big brother, because not only is he extremely successful and knowledgeable in muscle building and what he does, he's very thoughtful and methodical and honest, and he asks questions.

And he's willing to help people who are willing to put the work in. And I think that the thoughtful part that I touched on here is so important because so many of us so much of the time are on autopilot without even realizing it. And I'm speaking about myself here, and I know that many of you are going to resonate with this if you allow yourself to be honest, because we spend a lot of time filling ourselves up with distractions so that we don't have to be thoughtful and introspective because that shit is hard. So we're scrolling social media, we're following other people's stories, and it's not always useless stuff. We're doing tasks every day. We're cooking and cleaning and working and working out.

And we're doing things that we're so used to that we don't really have to put a lot of thought into performing them. And we also don't have to think about why. Why are we performing them? Should we switch it up? Should we do something different? What's the end game here? We don't take the time to ask why we're pursuing the goals that we're pursuing.

And I think we consider it a given that everybody wants to look fit, be as strong as possible, make as much money as possible. We often don't kind of drill down deeply into why, you know? So coming back to that original question, why do you want to be strong? Do you want to win a competition? Why do you want to win the competition? What will winning get you? Will it get you money? Why do you want more money? What are you going to do with that money? Why do you want more money? What are you going to do with that money? Do you want to look strong to other people?

Why do you want to do that? What does that recognition bring you? So you can see how we can go down a deep rabbit hole here. These are exploratory questions that don't have right or wrong answers, but they can help us clarify what we want to get out of life. And once you clarify that, you can start creating those steps that will get you there. And that's really what it's all about. So I think having a sense of your goals just helps you get there. And these goals can change. As Ben has told me, the steps that you take can get there, can change, but the steps are going to be wasted or at least half-hearted

if you don't at least spend some time thinking about what those end goals are. So Ben helped me start to think about this for myself. We caught up this weekend or this past weekend in New York, and I met up with him. We chatted. We talked. I kind of started going into some of my own questions and concerns about my career and my future and my goals and what I want to do. And really, it's about clarification and asking yourself questions and being honest with yourself and talking to yourself about what you want. And so as you can tell, it's obviously a bigger

internal conversation than maybe people think or maybe people are ready for. So I just hope that this is kind of a jumpstart inspiration for you. It's something that certainly was inspiring to me and has made me do a lot of focused, introspective thinking, writing some stuff down, trying to create a bit more strategy and clarity and focus around the things I want to accomplish. So I hope that's what it does for you too. But a little bit more about Ben real quick, in case you don't know, he is one of the world's best professional bodybuilders and IFBB pro. He currently runs his own gym with his own training and muscle building program that is world renowned. He's a business and lifestyle mentorship program that he's working on right now as well. He has a very

successful podcast that I listen to all the time called the Muscle Intelligence Podcast. He's writing a book. We get into that on the show. And that's kind of just the tip of the iceberg. But I've said it before. Ben is more than just a resource on muscle building. I think people come to him for the muscles and then you stay for the life-changing, thought-provoking conversation that he brings. So I feel intensely fortunate to know him and to be able to pick his brain and have access to his insight. And I hope you get a bit of that benefit from this chat too. So without further ado, here is my chat with Ben Pakulski. Over the computer, which isn't as good. It's never as good. A little bit of human dynamic is improved when you're in person, right? Yeah. Yeah, I feel very lucky.

Yeah. And I'm glad that you're in New York. We get to hang out in my favorite place. There's always lots going on here, like your trip down memory lane last night at Madison Square Garden. Can you talk about that? I didn't even think about that. Yeah, so we walk into the theater at Madison Square Garden, which is not the arena, but we walk into the theater,

which is a separate part. And I literally had a flashback of walking up when I was 17 years old, so just over 20 years ago. And going to my very first Mr. Olympia, I was 160 pounds, just started working out. And I walked in,

and I was just in awe of these superhuman athletes and I was walking watching them walk up the stairs and I was like wow I was literally I just started working out I've probably been working out for six months maybe a little longer than that but uh you know I asked my dad I was like hey can we go to Mr. Olympia sure let's drive down I was like okay so we drove down from Toronto and um seeing these guys and I said to my And I was like, okay. So we drove down from Toronto and I'm seeing these guys. And I said to my dad, I'm like, dad, I'm going to be on that stage one day. And I'm sure at 17 years old, he's like, whatever kid.

And we came back the next year to Vegas, to the Mandalay Bay. And I had put on 70 pounds of muscle. In a year. In a year, yeah. And I was 230 pounds. And it was completely natural. I just started training and eating. It's amazing what you can do when you're 17 years old too, right? Well, I'd gone from being a long distance runner and I was a vegetarian and basically lived on bagels.

Remember my diet? It was bagels, apples, yogurt, and muffins. I was basically... and raisin bread. Wow. I loved raisin bread. Just amazing healthy diet. That's a classic vegetarian diet right there. Bagels and bran cereal. Oh yeah. But somebody said, you know, meat's bad for you, man. Like don't eat that stuff.

And I was a kid and I just wanted to be healthy, whatever that meant. And, um, and a little, you know, 180 degree flip and started eating meat five times a day. Uh, you know, peanut butter when I couldn't eat meat. Perfect. Yeah. A.K.A. my current diet. Yeah, exactly.

Peanut butter and meat. Yeah. And I started training twice a day. I trained before school. I was still in high school. I trained before school and I trained after school. And all the sports went on the back burner. Prior to that, I was playing every sport possible, running every day, miles and miles. And I stopped that and my body shot up. And I went from, like I said, 160 to 230 and got relatively strong. And I probably went squatting 450, 500 pounds by the time I was 17, just like that quick turnaround, or quick count of 18. When you were doing that, did you have friends that were doing it too,

or did all of your friends, like, what the hell is going on here? I had no friends that did it at all um but i had these two guys at the gym who were brothers and i didn't know them but i i looked up to them they're like my big brothers my mentors and i literally wouldn't even talk to them but i was watching from across the gym and uh you know fast forward 20 years one of them's still my best friend and we've been best friends for 20 years and training partners for 15 of that. And he was probably the greatest contributing factor to my bodybuilding career. Because when I was 17, he was the avatar, right? He was the guy that, like, he taught me how to train.

He taught me how to train hard. He taught me what hard training really was. And still to this day, there's nobody that trained like that. Like, that mentality of of like, you're just going to crush yourself. And you know, like this story is, you know, stepping on my fingers and the leg breasts kind of thing when you try to close it. Uh, yeah, like just learning that mentality of what it really took to work hard. And I think that's really what's missing in a lot of people's training right now is it's more of a show based, uh, performance

like, Hey, I have to look onbased uh performance like hey look on instagram how do i look on my like i gotta i gotta take a video of this set like if i would take a video of a set i'm pretty confident he would have dropped 45 pound plate on my head so it's just different culture right like and i do that in my gym now too with some of my coaches and some of my athletes it's like like i actually get angry with them if they bring their phone and not from a perspective of actually getting angry, but just like you need to take this more seriously. Your phone is a distraction.

If you're thinking about anything other than how I'm going to work really hard, you're taking away from the end goal. And if you set an end goal to add muscle or be a great athlete, realize it's going to take a lot more than you think. Some people underestimate what it's going to take to actually build a great physique. It's not easy. There's a metaphor there in life, right? It's like if you're building a business or a relationship or really anything, most people underestimate what it's going to take. And you have to realize it takes so much more than you think. Yeah. And set your standard higher than what you've previously believed. Like, if you think it's going to take this, multiply that by two or four,

and that's what it actually takes. And also twice the amount of time, no matter how dedicated you are. Like, that's one thing that I tell people who are trying to get in shape or trying to do anything. I'm like, no matter how good you are at this, if you're trying to lose some, say, body fat, just know that it's going to take you at least twice as long as you think it's going to take. Yeah, and twice as much focus, and probably twice as much discipline, and I'm living that

life now, like, I'm under, we talked about this last night, is like, we're trying to do the least possible to stay in the greatest possible shape, and just that attitude itself is setting yourself up for failure. Like, how do I do the least amount worth possible and make the most money possible. That's our current culture. Right? And it's not an attitude of success. Like, you should be saying, I'm going to do whatever it takes to do this. And that's what got me to where I am. Not like minimum effective dose mentality, but now it's just a different part of my life. Yeah. I was looking up on uh and listeners please don't mind

the fact that we are in midtown manhattan right now so you're gonna hear half half sirens half us speaking but i was looking up the 1998 mr olympia and the the lineup there was like crazy stacked yeah the top 10 were crazy and yeah i remember seeing all those guys really for the first time like i'd seen them in magazines prior. It's a funny story with magazines, I tell this all the time. I was 15 years old when I saw my first Flex magazine and I was disgusted by it. I was like, most people were like, yeah, I don't want to look like that. Why would anyone ever want to look like that?

And then by 17, like just turning 17. 70 pounds later, you had a different idea. Even before that, before I came to Olympia, I picked up one of my first flex magazines, and I started to kind of, I was like, oh, that's interesting. I like that. And then it was like just opening it up, and there was an ad there for the Olympia, and I was like, yeah, can we go to this? And weeks later, we were driving down.

So it's this continuous evolution of fitness for me. So was it, when you were looking at these guys and you're 16, 17 years old, was it a desire to be strong or was it a desire to look like this crazy, strong human being? Yeah, I think so. When I first started working out, I was 15 and I was just wanting to get better for sports. I was a good baseball player, good volleyball, football player. So I was like, I just want to get better for sports. I want a good baseball player, good volleyball, football player. So I was like, I just want to get better for sports. I want to be faster. Like I probably had a pretty good chance to play professional baseball. You know, certainly I would have a scholarship or something like that.

So I wanted to be faster and stronger. And I said, go do this. So it started with that. And then it was like, oh, I'm actually responding well for this. Or I like the idea, like the way it felt, like the way we can feel, we can feel stronger feel stronger maybe look better um and then it was this constant desensitization to like you achieve one goal what's the next goal you know it's the idea of I just want to be 170 pounds of abs and you get it you know I just want to be 190 pounds of abs I just want to be 200 pounds and it's like eventually oh I just want to be the biggest human being on the planet was the eventual progression by the time I was probably 18 i made that actually was at the olympia that 98 one i was like dad i'm gonna do this and at that point you know people are like

holy man you're getting so big like the next year and i was like no man like i had a picture of flex wheeler five flex wheeler um dorian yates and lee priest on my wall and i was like man until i look like that i'm nothing and that was always my. And I think there's a lesson there too, right? It's, you know, don't compare yourself to the people in the gym. Don't compare yourself to the people around you. Compare yourself to the best people in the world, whether it be in business or life. Like, I don't just want to be okay at this. I want to be world class.

And if you hold yourself to that standard, you know, holding yourself to world class standards is what's going to allow you to achieve anything significant. I know we've been talking about this a little bit, um, since we were hanging out last night about, you know, I would like to talk to you about muscles forever because you are like the person to talk to about muscles, but you've been doing this for a long time. And so you're looking at some sort of ways to evolve your business and the way you interact with people and sort of the value that you're bringing to the world. So can you talk a little bit about what you're doing right now, like what you're up to business-wise, what's getting you excited? Sure. As we said as we walked in here, I still love muscle building but i think the paradigm around muscle building needs to shift because

the people that come to me to learn muscle are very single-tracked they're single-minded and like i just want to build muscle because i think it's going to make me more confident or like it's all about the vanity and i hate that i always have hated the vanity which sounds ridiculous coming from a guy who competed in his underwear for a living. Yeah, wasn't there a vanity aspect for you at some point? No, never. It was this, I mean, I shouldn't say never. I'm sure at some point there was a vanity aspect, but it was not my driving factor. It was like, I just want to be better and better.

It was like Arnold says, it's like crafting a statue. And for me, that happened in the gym. It wasn't like, hey, I'm going to take my shirt off and hope chicks look at me. It was never that. It never, it just was never this external pursuit of

gratification, external gratification. It just never was that. It was internal gratification. It was an internal battle with my demons. Right? An internal battle to become a better person eventually. I hate the vanity of it. And listen, I think it's certainly a side benefit that we talked about last night as well. It's like anywhere you go when you're a muscular fit person, you get twice as much recognition, twice as much respect.

There's a lot of side benefits. But if that's your primary driving factor, I think it's a problem. I think it needs to be this realization that training is a daily opportunity to explore your psyche, to explore your consciousness, to explore your discipline, like just explore your mind, right? So every time I get under a bar, am I going to stop or am I going to keep going? Like am I in control or am I going to quit whenever my brain says to stop? And I think that's the opportunity in training. It's this opportunity to connect with my body and my mind rather than disconnect from my body and my mind.

Most people go in the gym, they turn up the music full blast, they just mindlessly sling shit around with no objectives and no intent and just go and do whatever they do. Like, oh, I worked hard today. Awesome. And they wonder why they get fatter and they can't get results and they get inflamed and they feel like shit and the brain don't work and they get angry you know trying to train angry i think that's just the worst paradigm and i'm really the person that is trying to redirect people's attention toward this idea of like man you can

build a great body and you can love your body and you can connect with this amazing thing you've been given and become a better person. Use your training as a daily battleground to become the greatest version of yourself. Building self-confidence because you know you're sticking to a plan, you have discipline, etc., etc. You start building all these ultimate superpowers with your daily training. And whether it be yoga or running or weight training, it's all the same end result. It's all just like becoming a better version of yourself, no matter what it is. And, you know, my favorite, one of my favorite sayings,

if I can't, therefore I must, right? If I say that, hey, I can't sit down and meditate, chances are that's the very thing you must be doing. And if, hey, I can't do this, okay. If you hear yourself saying I can't, put that on the list of next in line things to do, right? Because, you know, everyone says, I can't, put that on the list of next in line things to do. Yeah. Because, you know, everyone says, I can't meditate. Chances are you're the person who needs it. Yeah.

Is there not, though, a certain level of sort of maturity and evolution that has to occur? Like, there's a reason why 16 to 22-year-olds were in the gym because we feel like it's going to make us better. We just want to look good. I love where your brain is us um yes and no right like imagine being empowered at 13 14 15 years old with the knowledge and the skill set to build a body that you love and that's not like hey this is how ben does it this is not hey this is how Ben does it. This is not how Ashley does it. It's like, hey, Frank, here's the blueprint for your body. And as much as that sounds a little bit vague, it's absolutely possible to teach people how to think about exercise so it fits their body. I can teach you how to do exercise for your body so that you feel like you're empowered to build your body, feel great about your body, love your body, not feel like, oh, I don't have the genetics.

Like, you know, this idea of internal versus external locus of control. You're in control of everything. You just don't have the skill set yet to do it. So, you know, you can lose fat. You can build muscle. You can climb a mountain. You can do whatever the hell you want. You can run a marathon.

But nobody's given you the blueprint yet, right? So imagine at 13 to 15 years old someone hands you a book and goes, here, for the rest of your whatever the hell you want. You can run a marathon. But nobody's given you the blueprint yet. Right? So imagine at 13 to 15 years old someone hands you a book and you go, here, for the rest of your life, anything you want to do is in that book. It's how to build muscle. It's how to burn fat. It's how to meditate. It's how to breathe. It's how to calm yourself down. How to control anxiety and

depressive thoughts. Like, all that stuff is, we have the skill set now. We have the knowledge in our culture. But nobody's put it together in like this blueprint for kids in high school make that high school curriculum like the fuck do we need to know about half the shit we do in high school is complete obscure bs right so make that a curriculum and that was actually something that i've set out to do is like the blueprint for your body for kids like make it a high school curriculum i think that would be a

very interesting thing to explore because imagine what you would do if i had a 13 years old i was like hey do this and anytime you want to build muscles it's almost like opening up that the almanac of your life okay you need to find the way to do this or any problems you hear yeah and so you're going to eliminate hopefully body image issues, maybe bullying because people are more confident, maybe depression, maybe eating disorders, like all these things, right? Um, is this a segue into a possible book that you're looking to create? I've got the whole plan. Yeah. I've got every chapter laid out, but it's like, how long do you need

to write that book? Yeah. You know, like I need, one year would be a miracle. Yeah. You know, two to three years would be likely. And

how do you write it so that people actually read it? Yeah. Because most people don't like to read. Yeah. So,

you know, how big would it be? Or how small could you make it? So you do one for men and do one for women. And you go, here is everything you need. But that's just the reality, right? Or if you you make it? So you do one for men and do one for women. And you go, well, here is everything you need.

That's just the reality, right? Or if you could work it so that you made it curriculum in high school, that's a powerful thing. And I actually talked to Arnold about that. So my idea was to rewrite the Arnold Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding for teenagers, but do it this way. Right? Because Arnold's got that power, right? If I brought it to Arnold in the next 12 months, he'd go, hey, this is what I got.

So we've talked about it. I'm answer to know but i think it would almost eliminate maybe it eliminates drug use in teenagers because like i feel the reason i didn't go down a shady path was because i found fitness like everyone in my family is overweight alcoholics drug addicts fucking name it yeah and like well i found fitness i found i found exercise i found discipline totally i had a goal and i knew that i could do it i believed i could do it like everyone said there's no way man like you don't stand a chance you know i heard that from everybody like if there's anything in the world you can't do it's that i was like okay so you smile and say thank you very much for your opinion and i'm going to go and do it and put two middle fingers in the air and say thank you when I get there. But yeah, imagine, I think you could really shift the paradigm of our youth with empowering them.

Because everything is grounded in your body. Like if you love your body and you feel connected with your body, you're not going to put drugs in your body. You're not going to put alcohol in your body. You're not going to put, and you're like, oh, now if i love my body i'm taking care of my body now i become more aware of my surroundings and my environment and the air i breathe and the water i drink and oh maybe i start caring about the environment a little bit more i'm like oh well geez why is somebody throwing plastic on the ground because i know that's going to go into my drinking water and maybe these companies putting glyphosate and pesticides and everything hey why are you guys doing that i don't want to put that into myself or my children.

Like, I think your body is the vehicle for... Accomplishing everything else. Everything. Yeah. And including your mind, right? Like, if your body is healthy and you're exercising, your mind evolves, your brain grows, your ability to learn new skills and new knowledge is expanded.

I think that it's the, it's the vehicle for everything. And this is maybe the, maybe this is my, my thing in life. My, the thing I need to check off most is like, if you're going to shift the world, you know, start with the young people. Yeah. Start before they have already fucked themselves up to get them early. That honestly happens between 12 and 14 for most people. Like I've got a 12 year old son and I'm starting to see how he's being influenced. They may even start younger than that. Right. So there's a great psychologist named Gabor Mate and he speaks about like how, at what point does a child start

to separate from his family and start to use his friends as his leaders. Right. So if parents disconnect from their kids at some point, probably very young. and I see this in my kids, like, if I'm not there all the time, in days, like, I have to go out of my way to spend excessive amounts of time with them so I reconnect with them and make sure that I'm the person they look up to and respect and love and admire. Like, I'm their superhero. It's not fucking Superman or Batman or whomever. Like, no, it's dad. Right? Or mom.

That's the goal, right? Like, I don't want my kids growing up and saying, oh, I love Superman. Well, to me, that's like, okay, well, where was your dad? Right? Yeah. And I think that's why superheroes are so successful in this world, because people don't have a role model to look up to, because dad is not there and mom is not there.

So I go back intentionally and I spend as much time as is necessary to make sure that when they wake up in the morning, the first person they think about is me, not Johnny down the road. He's going to go throw rocks at cars or ride the bicycle, you know, in places they shouldn't be. You know what I mean? I love the idea of this very practical kind of knowledge, putting it into schools. Right. And, you know, we're learning chemistry that we're never going to need to use or we're learning math that can all be done on our iPhones now. But we don't know how to, like, balance our bank accounts and we don't know how to breathe properly or, like, move our bodies and stuff.

So I am totally on board with that, something like that being in, like, a school curriculum. It also seems like it's kind of a hard sell considering that gym or physical fitness or athletics are like always the first thing to be cut out of school curriculum ignorance right like and parents think like oh a child to learn but they don't realize that learning is contingent on health yeah like if your brain isn't healthy and your stress is elevated you can't learn by definition why does my kid have a learning disability yeah because their home life is stressed and if you want to alleviate their home, their stress from home, they need them to move. Now, every, both of them, all three of my children will wake up

in the morning and first thing they do, like they, they know, they make their bed and they walk out the door, they go outside and they walk. So my 12 year old goes for runs every day and my five and seven year old go with us and we go for a walk and it's like 45 30 to 60 minutes like 45 minutes sometimes um and just like go outside get some sun on your face and have fun and it's it's this bilateral movement that they know is now correlated the growth of your brain with increased motivation increased dopamine improved learning ability like this is all substantiated in science you know through the military so everybody get up and walk and i say this to every one of my clients right they're like hey man how do i improve my thinking

how do i improve my my ability to learn and remember and build my body and the first thing i said everybody's two things is breathe and walk what like yeah like people are coming to me to look for some miraculous supplement protocol that's going to get them in shape i'm like okay for the first month we're going to do this you know we're going to breathe and we's going to get them in shape. I'm like, okay, for the first month, we're going to do this. We're going to breathe and we're going to walk. And I think about it in my mind, but it's literally the only thing that they need to do and everything will shift. Depression goes away.

Anxiety goes away. You feel better about yourself. Your ability to learn is better. Life just starts to go a little bit better. What's going on? That. It's so simple. And when people can kind of reframe and think

like, cause I think people, like you said, people want like a supplement stack or they want like some sexy, like magic set of reps and sets that's going to build the most muscle. And we don't want to hear the, you just have to get up and move your body and walk and it's easy. But I think if people can reframe and look at that and say like, yeah, that is the foundation and it's easy but I think if people can reframe and look at that and say like yeah that is the foundation and it's not it doesn't have to be this like scary overwhelming challenge just part of your daily life and that's gonna trickle out into everything else that's kind of it's a good thing that's an empowering thing sure it doesn't have to be complicated so do you have like manipulating sets and reps and volume and load those names I just you know

thing that comes to mind is it's like trying to write like a haiku poem or some type of abstract poem without ever learning the alphabet, without ever learning how to read or write. You know, like you need to have this foundational skill first. And that's what people miss in exercises. They're all like, I'm going to go in and work hard. I'm going to do more volume, less volume, more load. But you haven't done anything correctly. Like people negate the idea that exercise, every exercise in itself is a skill. And until you master that skill, the manipulation of all those intraset variables,

like sets and reps and volume load, do not matter because they're not, it's impossible to quantify them, right? So until I qualify the stimulus, I can't quantify the stimulus. And people miss that. And that's really what I'm teaching. I don't even get into quantification for the most part for most people because I've literally met 5% of the population of the entire fitness industry that can benefit

from quantification of sets, but yet everybody's barking at the tree of, hey man, write a good program for me. You don't need a program. You just spend three months learning the skill. I always frame it around 40 exercises. I try to make it the least number of exercises possible. Like so four to five exercises per body part. And even that is too much, right? Like do two, do one and master that and then do another one, right? It's like people go, how many

exercises should I do? How many can you do perfectly? Start with that one. Do six to eight sets of that. And then slowly add another one in. And then don't add any more until you've mastered the second one, right? So I try to master six exercises for a body part. How long is it going to take me to master those? A long time. If I try to master one, chances are I'm going to do it a lot faster.

And then once I've made it unconscious, like any skill, like writing your name, right? If you're writing your name, you don't think about it. You just write it down. You sign your name. And now if you say writing your name, you don't think about it. You just write it down. You sign your name. And now if you say, okay, go write it with the other hand. Slow, thoughtful, like probably pretty messy. Well, how long is it going to take you to master it? I don't know.

Like, it depends how often you do it. It depends how well you do it. It depends how much you, how specifically you do it. And that's how, that's how skill acquisition happens. And this is how people should frame exercise. Stop trying to do the fancy shit. Start trying to do the basic stuff and do it really, really well. If you want to build a body, you're fortunate that you obviously can kind of pick and choose your really even your clients and the work that you do at this point.

Like you don't have to, you're not a trainer that has to take whoever comes to you. That's willing to pay you money, right? Like you're in a trainer that has to take whoever comes to you that's willing to pay you money, right? Like you're in a good position when you have, as you said, sometimes you have people coming to you who are like, I just want to get jacked. I just want to get big and strong and you're the guy to do it. That's not really your area of interest and passion at this point. You want to be able to do more. I still want to help those people though, right? So how do you do that?

Well, I always look at their blind spot and I go, go do that. And I won't charge them. I'm like, hey man, you do that? Well, I always look at their blind spot and I go, go do that. And I won't charge them. I'm like, hey, man, go do that. And if they come back 30 days later and they say, hey, man, I've done it every day for the last 30 days, there's always a massive shift, both in their performance, in their recovery, in their cognitive ability. Like, there's always a massive shift because you just look at where they're weakest and you push it. You go, go do that. And it's always the simplest thing, right? It's always's always like well stop going to bed at two o'clock

in the morning or stop screwing on your phone after 9 p.m or stop being on your computer or walk every day or breathe every day or if you can't sit in a meditative pose for five minutes just sit there it doesn't matter what you do turn your your phone off, put it far away, and sit there. And learn to calm your autonomic nervous system. If you can't sit still for five minutes, think about that. That's absurd. Yep, it's the world we live in. Yeah, and so people don't quantify that because we live in a world that wants proof of everything. Okay, well, look at your heart rate variability.

Look at your HRV, which is an indication of the health of your nervous system, your autonomic nervous system. And I guarantee if you're really tight and if you can't sit on the floor with a straight spine and legs crossed, your HRV is probably zero, like no variance whatsoever. And a healthy nervous system has high variance. So look at it, and there's your quantification. And as you see your heart rate variability go up, increase, likelihood is you'll be able to sit in that position a little more freely because all of the tone that exists inside your muscle will start to alleviate, right?

All that hypertonicity, that excessive amount of tightness, that will start to alleviate just because we sat there and we breathe and we relax. And like all this muscle tone is, is this hypertonicity of the nervous system from stress. If we see something, like someone pulls a gun on you right now, what happens? And we tighten up. And then eventually that becomes our default because it happens so much. We're driving in cars. We're always in this hyper-stressed state.

So if you start to pay attention to that and start to breathe it out and release it, all of a sudden your default becomes less tone and less tightness. And all of a sudden, oh, I can move better. I feel better. My blood flow is better. I can build my body better. I can access those ranges of motion when I train to allow me to build the muscle I'm trying to build. Rather than being in these really restricted ranges and pain everywhere and your body's just in this hyper protective mode, like there's a lion sitting in the room that's trying to eat you, your body can actually relax and now respond and breathe. And now, oh, gosh, I'm not going to have a heart attack when I'm 45. Right?

And unfortunately, that's the life we live. But, you know, short of wanting to move to Costa Rica and live in a hut that I built myself. Wait until you read that book, dude. I'm telling you. Yeah. It's going to be, yeah. Yeah, if I didn't have kids, I'd probably be gone already.

Yeah. I'm just a guy, like, man, give me, I'm simple. and i grew up in toronto which is i grew up thinking like my dad owns a farm and i never wanted to go i don't ever want to farm it like i'm a city guy and now after having evolved a little bit and been exposed to it for too long that's all i want yeah i just want a farm i want to grow my own food and have my own animals and live there with my kids where they can play outside like it was 100 years ago and you know the world goes in cycles right i think everything goes in cycles i think eventually hopefully we will at least maybe i will get all back to you know simple slow yeah yeah but don't you feel like you kind of needed that period in

between where you are so there there again it's like there's a natural evolution here. Yeah, I think, and this may be, um, stereotypical of me, or maybe I'm being chauvinist and saying like men in particular have this innate desire to hunt and accumulate things.

Um, so I really believe that every man, and again, it could be women, uh, I'm not a woman, so I can't speak for it. Maybe you can,

has this innate desire to accumulate things. And whether it's money or material things or muscle we all have this like we have to prove ourself we have to go and show that i can do it and that's important that's an important part of becoming a man i think every man needs to do that and i was just blessed to kind of achieve the goal that i started out to achieve very young relatively young like when i retired 35, which is my goal when I started. And now I have massive amounts of time left in my life to realize that that wasn't all it was supposed to be. Like whether you're trying to accumulate, like how many people do you know who are,

you know, a hundred millionaires who are unhappy and unfulfilled and go, fuck, I have all this money, but I don't know what to do with it. Yeah. Well, that's me with muscle. I got the top five, top 10. Look at all this muscle. I don't know. What do I do now? I don't even know what the fuck I'm supposed to do with it. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I'm kind of uncomfortable in all this muscle. I got the top five, top ten. Look at all this muscle. What do I do now?

I don't even know what the fuck I'm supposed to do with it. I'm like, oh, I'm kind of uncomfortable in all this muscle. I don't really like it anymore. It's not really practical. What the hell am I doing? But the fact that I was able to achieve it is why I'm able to unwind it. And most people, unfortunately, don't ever achieve their dreams. They don't ever achieve their goals because they don't go all in on one thing, right?

We're like squirrels chasing a nut, right? We're like, I'm going to go over there. Oh, I don't want that. I'm going to go over there. And that's what I said to you. If you set a goal, no matter what it is, you finish. And we're all guilty of this, myself included now. Hey, guys, I'm going to interrupt the podcast for a hot minute to tell you about our show

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some insight that I was not aware of at all. So there's a lot of different ways you can use it. It's very helpful. You don't have to have it on all day forever. Like you don't have to be like, I'm one of those people who track stuff now and I can never take this off. You can use it for specific end goals. If you are training for something specifically, if you have something coming up and you're trying to peak and taper your training, it can be really, really helpful. And even just to give you some baseline testing to see where you're at. How is your sleep generally? How is your stress generally? How are your workouts affecting you? Um, I found it really helpful and I'm not a tech person,

so that's all I can say about that. And whoop is generously sponsoring this podcast by giving us a code, a discount code for you guys. So if you use the code shrugged, when you head to whoop.com, they'll give you 15% off. So worth a shot. If you have any questions, any specific questions about how I've been using it, send me a message on Instagram at the muscle Maven, or you can get through to me at a shrug collective. And, um, yeah, ask me questions or if you're using it, let me know what you think. And let's have a conversation. If you set a goal for three months and you get to four weeks and you go i don't really want to do this anymore it doesn't matter you finish right you say you sign a

contract with yourself and say i said i'm going to do this and i do it so like today i started my 30-day carnivore diet and that's all i'm going to do you are starting today okay all right ambitious being in new york and starting it but yeah i don't care like i'm not going to take you on like a cupcake tour of new york so you're fine last night i don't receive joy from food anymore we all have our different places where we look to gratify our internal sense of joy and literally everybody listening go create a list of all the things that bring you joy and then make a conscious decision to which one you want to use more than others because like that's all it is it's like we're so focused on uh achievement we're like i gotta do this and i gotta work and this and then you don't think about bringing joy into your life and your body was going to go hey man i'm lacking

this i need this you're going to go it's going to be sex or drugs or sugar or whatever so plan it and go what brings me joy well for, it's like meditation brings me joy. Reading brings me joy. My children bring me joy. You know, helping people brings me joy. So as long as I plan those things and like intentionally go every few hours, I want to bring that into my life. I don't usually crave junk. If I go for long periods of time without consciously bringing joy into my life, I will go out and eat that half a jar of peanut butter on the bed or something, right?

So you just have to be conscious. And again, that's maybe the hardest thing of all, is telling the listener or telling anybody, I need you to be aware. I need you to be present. And most people go through life so mindlessly. We get in the car, we turn on the radio, we get home, we turn on the TV, and it doesn't allow you to think, it doesn't allow you to feel,

it doesn't allow you to be present with your body. So it's almost impossible for people to start being aware of, what does my body need right now? I don't know. Why do I feel like my tank is empty? And that's the best metaphor. I use that with my kids all the time. Like, how's your tank?

Is your tank full or is your tank empty? Let me fill up your tank. But what can we do to fill up your joy tank, your love tank, your whatever, your happiness, right? Fill it up. And then once it's full, you've got a few hours or a few days before it dwindles back down fill it back up again and don't fill it up with donuts and doritos yeah there's a couple points in this conversation that i want to go back to so you were saying you know that you think it's it's a natural thing for men to kind of feel

like they have to go out and sort of acquire and conquer and achieve and i do think for women there's a similar vein there it might be a slightly different because men tend to be the providers and women tend to be the nurturers yeah but I agree with what you're saying and I do think women feel it too but there's an element of I think it's again it goes back to you're talking about mindfulness but also like self-actualization and early on it's like okay well how can we make other people look at us and approve and think that we're successful and we look good? Yeah, so I think that there's like, but it's interesting to me that, I mean, you were a 12, 13, 14-year-old that was already concerned with eating properly. There you go.

Super young. Like, most of us don't get there until we're like in our 30s or at least like after university. I had so much pain in my childhood that it made me aware of how do I alleviate this pain. And I think sometimes we all need pain, however that comes, to make us aware of things. And I think, you know, if you live a sheltered life, it's very easy to go through in this misguided belief

that the world is bliss, right? Like I had tremendous pain when I was a kid. I had a lot of abandonment issues like lack of love lack of self-worth so i just started looking around and why is that person happy and why is that person driving in his car and living where they want to live and you know they're fit and they look happy and they look like they're fulfilled and might me and my family over here doing this like as early as seven years old, I remember watching a girl in my class. I remember exactly what it was. I'm like, God, her family loves her.

They give her hugs and they say, I love you. And I'm like, why doesn't my family do that? And it's this really strange, obscure realization that I had super young. And I'm so blessed for that. Many people live their life being resentful of the people in their life who brought them that pain yeah um but i'm grateful for and i've learned to become that right i've had forgiveness become a very big part of my life and then i've realized that well in forgiveness the only way to truly forgive is to find the growth and find the gratitude

in the situation like i can say i forgive for that. But until I actually realized that like something in there helped me, it's impossible to actually let it go. So you have to find the gratitude in that. How was that, when did that journey kind of, you're saying you're seven years old and dealing with this kind of, I don't know, adversity. When did you have that approach where you're like, I'm going to take this and use it. And I'm going to be grateful for the unique opportunity that I have much later.

Yeah, it was. So my first kind of encounter with that was at 27 years old, where I was just starting to become kind of successful in bodybuilding. And I was at the point where I started to hear this this concept of like be very aware of who you surround yourself with and if you're not bringing value into your life they're stealing from you if they're not you know bringing positivity they're bringing you down and I started literally chopping away at the people in my life and the first person to go was my dad and how old were you when this happened? 27. Okay.

So I was, you know, evolved older. And I was like, all right, I've got to get rid of my dad. Because my dad was just this negative drain on my life. And he was the guy who, when I was younger, was just not a nice person. So I was like, all right, done. And literally the day that I was going to go say, hey, dad, I just never want to speak to you you again i went to a guy who was a good friend of mine and also ultimately a life coach and he said hey man let's talk about that for a second before i go do that i want to see if what do you think your involvement in that is like how do you come to that situation i said well i always come in

like with a sense of anxiety like it's going to happen like every time my dad and i would have an exchange, there was always both of us, like a bad relationship with anybody, you both come in with this degree of anxiety and fear and anticipation of the poor energy that's about to be exchanged. He goes, well, do you realize you contribute to that? What if you came in with an open heart, with joy and love, and you come and give him a hug? Maybe he felt that. Do you think he would shift? I go, I don't know. So he said, well, let's go into your unconscious mind and let's explore how that happened, when it came to be.

And maybe we can change your belief about why it happened. So I went back to this time when I was seven years old. This very specific incident where I was like, well, that's the moment I think my dad and I began to have massive amounts of discontent for each other. So I went back and changed it in my mind and told the seven-year-old Ben that, hey, it's going to be okay. You're going to turn out to be a great man, and your dad's coming at this with all he knows how to do. This is the best he's got.

He's not intentionally trying to hurt you. He's trying to love you, and that's all he knows. He just wasn't talking about it. So you go through this kind of forgiveness process, and I kind of went away from that situation with a plan on how I was going to next approach my dad. And so, you know, not that I don't throw my dad under the bus. Honestly, my dad is not a bad human being. We just had some discontent as a kid.

And, you know, he's very young and thrown into the position where he's taking care of two kids. But, you know, he'd never called me by my name. And he'd never said I love you. And so I went into this situation that day and I said, you know, Dad, I'm really not happy with our relationship. And, you know, you've never called me by my name. I really need that to change. And he goes, okay, what do you want me to call you? I said, well, how about Ben? And he goes, okay, man. And it just like that, it shifted

because I went in with an open heart and not with like this anger and like preconceived tension that was going to hurt. Um, but yeah, anyway, so like, I don't know. Having some empathy, I think. Yeah. So this is a, but this is a really valuable conversation because I, this is something that I have personally struggled with and I'm sure everybody listening has struggled with it at some point is, you know, you said this earlier and it's echoed everywhere that it's sort of like, you are kind of the, um, the, I don't know, whatever the five people that you hang out with, you know, and I've struggled at times thinking like, I have a lot of relationships that are bringing me no value that are taking from me more than they're giving to me.

But taking the time to think, okay, what's your place in this? If you are the average of the five people and you feel like those five people are shitty, there's a little bit of responsibility on your end too. Where do you find the balance between coming into these relationships with empathy and compassion and understanding and realizing that there are two people in this relationship and also knowing when it's time to cut loose? Sure. Well, when do you invest in a relationship versus like, it's okay to have people that are in your life, but you should be investing daily in the five people who mean the most to you, right? And like, you need to be conscious of that. And like, it's so easy to let the people who are important fade away. You know, like if there's, if it's your spouse, if it's your best friend, your business partner.

You take them for granted that they're always going to be there. If you're not constantly investing, like any relationship, it's going to fade away. And so I'm not always good at this, but I'm much more aware of it now than I've ever been because, yeah, we get busy and it's very easy to get focused on your own goals and not help other people with theirs. And, you know, it's, that's why five people is max, like maybe three, you know, like have people that are really, really important to you and you treat them that way. And they know that, they know that you value every minute you're with them and you need to invest in that you need to make their goals your goals and like hey if we

can help you with this let's go how do we make this better and uh yeah that's you know kind of how i approach it it's like anyone who is very important to me i'm i have my finger on the pulse of their life like i need to make sure that hey if we have anything going wrong or if i can help in any way or if we can promote something or like let let's go, let's go, let's go. Like, I'm at your back until you die. I really think that's a valuable thing for people to consider because one of the biggest changes in my life, becoming an adult, going from my late 20s into my early 30s was having that sort of really internal moment and thinking about what my responsibility was to the people in my life that were important to me.

And if I felt like I was surrounded by kind of subpar friends or family, that there's a responsibility that I have to either nurture those relationships or know when to cut them off. And I think that the group that I have right now and the people that I surround myself with and feeling like those are really sort of quality people that inspire me and make me better has been a real turning point in my own career, my own happiness, my own sense of my abilities and what I can do in the world is surrounding myself by with awesome people. And I think that that's a really important thing for people to understand because sometimes like you said we don't nurture the relationships that are the most important to us because we take them for granted so I just want that to be a part of this conversation that people really think about when they turn this podcast on I get this question

a lot like hey man I don't have great people in my life what do I do yeah and the question then needs to go what's not about anybody else it's you. And I always say this to my team and to anybody I meet. It's like, if it's fast forward, you know, to the dream day where you're sitting at the table with your five people and you're, you know, it could be anybody in life. Like the five people still alive who you want to have at the proverbial table. Well, what do you bring to the table like if i want i don't know who's who's like a great five people but like the five biggest influencers in the world right now like i want bezos at the table i don't want to robin for the table whoever right um but what do you bring to the table that invites has them invite you to the table

not you're inviting yourself so that's ultimately ultimately how I try to approach my life, is I want those people inviting me. I'm not going to go out and try to seek them. And Jordan and I had this conversation yesterday. It's like, he's like, well, how do you do that? I'm like, dude, I'm going to provide so much value that they're going to be calling and begging me to come. Begging may be not the right word, but I want them to be like,

you're the guy, you need to be here and contribute to this not the opposite way around i'm not trying to invite myself into somebody else's life if if i can provide value they'll know and if i can't that's fine you're not the right person for me yet or i'm not ready for you yet like if i'm not at your level i don't expect you to invite me into your home and have me down and sit and talk business or fitness or life or anything. So how do you do it? Well, reverse engineer it. Who do I want to be?

Or what table do I want to be at? Who do I want to be? And then reverse engineer what skills I need to have, what books do I need to read, where do I need to travel to, what do I need to learn, what are my blind spots, and how do I move forward? And this is basically what you and I talked about. It's like you've got to reverse engineer it.

You can't just be like, oh, I want to end up somewhere. No, no, what is the goal? And, and who do you want to be in the end? It's totally hard, right? This is a cool exercise though. Like think about the five people you want to sit around a table with and then think about what makes you worthy to be sitting at the table with them. Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing that. I'm going to do that today. I do with my mentorship clients. So we start off with some interesting stuff. Like, I think one of the things that's most powerful for me is starting with the eulogy, like you just died, and who is there and what are they saying about you? That's intense. Oh, yeah.

You got to do it, right? Like, how do you influence your team members? How do you influence your family? What do they say about you, your best friends, and even your worst enemies? Like, what do they say about you if they're speaking at your funeral tomorrow? And you need to write that out. And then, so that's kind of step one in my mentorship. And step two is, what's your 25-year plan?

And people go, I want a three-year plan or a five-year plan or a 10-year plan. Those are very important. And I think those happen as well. But a 25-year plan is a completely different thought. Like, if I know, fast forward 25 years... Just think about how old I'm going to be. So, why?

Because, let's say in 10 years, you achieve all of the material goods that you want to achieve. So, you've got your house, you've got your money, you've got your vacation home, maybe you've got your kids. So, what's next? Your kids are out of school,

your kids are off to university now, and you've got everything. What happens after that? to what's next. Your kids are out of school. Your kids are off to university now. And you've got everything. What happens after that? And for most people, the journey is one of two things. It's like, I'm either going to have an internal journey,

a spiritual journey, or I'm going to help people. Or both. And so that's where I think people need to go to identify who they truly are. And that will drive them. So like,

what are you going to do in 25 years? Well, I don't know. Okay know okay well let's figure that out let's at least get a vague idea of what you want to do because that will hopefully drive this or the previous decisions right like what i'm going to do in three years and five years and 10 years will be driven by the 25 year plan yeah so you just mentioned that you you kind of have another layer to the things that you offer people now, which is like a business mentorship program. And that's not something that I think you've really sort of like overtly advertised that you do. I don't want to be, I have this reservation with being like the douchey salesman telling you, hey, I'm going to grow your business.

Because everybody's like, hey, here's how to grow your business to six and seven figures. I have a lot of people that approach me who say, hey man, could you help me your business, because everybody's like, hey, here's how to grow your business to six and seven figures. I have a lot of people that approach me who say, hey, man, could you help me build a brand? Could you help me build a business? Could you help me scale my company? Whatever. And I'm a student of business even more than I am a student of fitness now. I read a lot more about business, and I've got a couple businesses, and I really enjoy it. And I think if I have any skill, it's learning how to see how pieces fit together

and learning how to fill in the gaps. You know, I don't have a particularly good memory. I'm not very well spoken for the most part, but my ability, if it does exist, is the ability to see, like, connect the dots, right? And so that's why I can often help people with business or let them see their blind spot in life. You know, I've been through some challenging times

and I'm continuing to grow through them. Again, by no stretch do I claim to be perfect or have solved all these problems in my life. I still have many things in my life that I need to work on or I choose to work on. I'm checking my life. I still have many things in my life that I need to work on or I choose to work on. I'm checking my language. But somebody who's been through this process and who's had some experience

and also somebody who can, as you said, sort of be objective and see people's blind spots in a way that they're never going to be able to see. Right? I'm usually pretty good at that. Yeah.

My team calls it my FBI interrogation skills. So like reading people's body language and reading their words and looking deeper into what you say. You know, my spiritual people call it my third eye. And my team calls it my FBI interrogation skills. FBI, I like it. Yeah. So one of my team members sent some person to me this week here in New York. And he's like, hey man, could you do your FBI stuff on me? I'm like, yep, no problem, man. I got it. Okay. It's just

like, what's the energy look like? What are they hiding? What are they talking about? What aren't they talking about? Yeah. So that's interesting. See, that must be super fun for you because it is kind of a whole different side of what you're doing, but it's like you're, you're learning, you're investigating, like you're figuring things out it's going to be kind of exciting yeah so i think everyone has that skill but we're also asleep when i use that term a lot but like we're not even aware of our own body and like our body language and subtleties and uh you know it says everything about you if you just learn to watch and pay attention and be mindful and be present and i'm certainly not present 100% of the time but working toward that and like somebody's sitting there and talking to watch and pay attention and be mindful and be present. And I'm certainly not present a hundred percent of the time, but working toward that. And if somebody's sitting there and talking to you and the words they choose and the body

language they have is all indicative of everything going on in their body and their mind. So like they're saying more with their body and the words they choose than they are actually verbally. What is the, if somebody is listening to this and is not completely terrified and wants to talk to you about building a business, what is like the intake process for that? Cause it's not just somebody coming to you being like, yeah, I want to grow a business. Like I want you to help. And you're like, all right, give me some money and let's do this. It's completely subjective and very much like my training athlete process. There's going to be

jumping through hoops. Like if I want it more than you do, or if I'm going to bring way more value to the situation than you are, it just doesn't make sense. Like it's, you're better off giving me your company and you can work for me. Right? Like I don't want that situation. I want someone who's actually doing well or actually want like prime example. I've got this one client right now who we've been working together for about a month and this guy's accomplished more in a month than most people will accomplish in a year just because like I'm giving him marching orders and he comes back three days later and goes, here, it's done. What's next?

I'm like, holy shit, this guy's a machine and he's like stressed. He's not doing enough. I'm like, dude, you need to take a day off. Like chill out. Breathe. Like he's crushing it. And that, those are the type of people that ultimately can have the greatest success, right? You know, he's paying me a lot, but I'm like, dude, I'm going to give you 20 extra turns on that. Probably more

than that. Like, because I tell you what to do and you execute, you're the perfect client. And so if there's someone out there who knows how to see or was willing to execute and just doesn't quite know what the next steps are or what their blind spot is, if it's an industry that I'm familiar with i can usually point you in the right direction and point you to someone who does know but again it's very subjective and it's just an interview process or i want to talk to you and tell me what your business tell what you're doing what you're not doing and yeah are the people who are coming to you for this kind of uh help all in the fitness wellness business yeah yeah cannabis um cannabis supplements fit all my fitness business

yeah yeah like anything in i'm not going to try to go and teach you how to build a financial advising business like i don't think about it sounds awful totally i don't think about it so but yeah within within like the supplement space and the fitness space and the muscle and stuff again i don't claim to know everything but if i don't i think the only thing that i bring to the table is if i actually don't know i'm not going to say you're not going to blow smoke up somebody's ass yeah i actually don't know but chances are someone who does and that's one of the great things i bring as well as the network of people is if you need a door opened chances like i love doing that i actually really like the idea of connecting people and i do it every day like hey you need to meet this person because like when you put two brilliant

people in the same place really good things happen yeah right um that's it so i and i think the world being such a small place now with the internet it's this beautiful opportunity to push everything further like if i connect two brilliant researchers or two brilliant businessmen or like gosh the possibilities are incredible. What could happen? And if they don't, that's okay. But, you know, I've made some really interesting connections lately. And I'm like, gosh, I can't wait to see what comes of this.

It's going to be so amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You also, one of the things you were telling me yesterday about this business kind of mentorship work that you're doing is the commitment part of it. And I want you to talk about that because I think that that's sort of a unique and frustrating part of any kind of coaching relationship is, yeah, again, if you're lucky enough to be able to basically interview for your clients and not just take whoever comes to you and is willing to pay you. But you still run into people who maybe are like a month in, actually, this isn't really what I want to do, or I'm just going to put it on hold for a bit, or they're starting to make excuses. And you kind of don't really allow for that so much.

Yeah. As I said briefly just a minute ago, you're going to sign a contract to yourself. And you're going to put it somewhere you can look at it. And I think that's very valuable, right? So we'll sit down and we'll say, what are your goals? What do you want to do? And we'll reverse engineer a plan. And you're committed to doing that plan.

And if you decide in six months that this isn't right for you, that's fine. But you're going to follow through with everything necessary to finish that plan. So you're committing to me and you're committing to yourself. And as we spoke about last night, there's so much power in your word in your commitment to yourself and if you are ever going to succeed in life it has to start there it's grounded there in honesty and your commitment to yourself um so that's you know part of the exclusion criteria for the the mentorship it's like you're going to finish what you started. Yeah, yeah.

And again, I'm with that. I'm like that with my kids too. And I sometimes kind of waver on how much I should do that with my kids. Because they're kids. And you're like, I don't really want to hold them to a pressure situation. But I really believe it may be the most important attribute of a human. It's like, say, do. And no matter how much pain and how much it sucks and how much you don't,

you've just proven to yourself, and nobody else gives a shit, but you've proven to your unconscious mind, to yourself, that if you say, you do. And that's just so powerful. Yeah. And we've all failed on that, myself included, right? But like, if, I think that may be where success is grounded. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Your word is your bond. And I've had some hard lessons on that, but I think that is where everyone, including myself, needs to commit themselves in the future. Yeah, yeah, the empowerment and sense of accomplishment you get from just doing what you say you're going to do bleeds into every other part of life. And no matter how much you dread it and how much it sucks. Like even, I learned that lesson competing in bodybuilding, right? It's like,

I just said it, I just said a goal and a date. Yep. And that shit needs to happen. Otherwise you're going on stage and people are going to go, what happened? Yep. So that,

that's the beauty of bodybuilding. If I learned anything, it was like, it's, it's tangible, objective goals, not subjective goals, right?

It's not like I want to lose fat. Yes. No, I want to lose 20 pounds by this date. Okay. Well, how do we do it? Well, let's reverse engineer it. So you're creating a process goal, right? An objective goal and then a process goal. And you break down the process into steps. Man, it's so simple

yet we all just choose not to do what's necessary. Things that are simple aren't always easy, though. Those are two different words. It's like med school, right? People school right people like oh you're a doctor you must be brilliant you're not necessarily smarter than anybody else you just are the person you're persistent you get shit done yeah you're willing to suffer through what was necessary to actually accomplish that goal yeah and you know it's important to realize your why we talk about that getting deeper well why do i want to do this goal so that's another part of the intake process is like

casually you know you're going to join my mentorship what's your goal okay here's my goal why is that your goal let's dig deeper is it insecurity is it like something bigger because if that's all it is and if it's an unstable foundation you're going to fail yeah so how do we find a deep level of why that you can identify and come back to every time that it gets hard right so i mean that's why i think maybe your bond of your word is the most powerful why of anything because it's always there it's like that's me like that's the foundation of who i am at my core and if you want to build that and make a strong foundation you must build your. You must build your belief in yourself that you will always fulfill your word. And you can all, anyone can do that. We can all

do that. Everyone. No matter what your goal is or what you want to achieve. And that's why goal setting is so important. If you want to be successful, set goals. But nobody ever talks about why. Right? It's because everyone's like, oh, you know, I want to achieve goals. Why? Yeah. Well, it's because you need to believe. Nobody else fucking gives a shit if you eat a Snickers bar. If you said I'm not going to eat a Snickers bar. Yeah. You know. That's like so powerful.

So powerful. Like, nobody knows if you sneak into your room and you eat a Snickers bar. Nobody knows. But you know. That's a big deal. Yeah. Okay. I'll end it there because that's nice and aspirational and hopeful and positive.

And I know you have to go. But we didn't even talk about muscles. Yeah. That's all I know for to go. We barely talked, we didn't talk about your carnivore thing, which I'm very interested in. So we're just gonna have to follow you on Instagram to follow along with that. But wait, I have one more parting question because I'm thinking about this as we talk. Have you always, cause I know that you're into sort of mindfulness and meditation and yoga and which is, you know, something that people might not think like looking at you the bodybuilding yogi have you from a young age were you always someone who had this sort of

calming thoughtful way of speaking and communicating or is this something that you cultivated because I said this the first time that we talked like I talk like I'm like a chipmunk on speed and I have to like purposefully try to like bring it down and be calm. And when you speak, when I'm getting excited, when you ask me a question and I get excited and I'm answering you like this and I'm like leading forward and talking really fast. And I hear you kind of just speaking calmly. And I feel like you almost speak more calmly in reaction to how I'm speaking than it makes me calm down and be more. Is that something that you have worked on or have you always kind of had that way about you? A thousand percent worked on. Okay. And that's a whole different podcast, right? Yeah.

So here's, here's a funny story in like 30 seconds or less. Yeah. As a child, I had a learning disability, a speech impediment, and I was obese. So talk about a guy who's a lot to overcome. Well, yeah. Talk about a guy who takes his weaknesses and makes it his strengths, right? Like, you know, obesity, you're making a living standing on stage in your underwear, and now you're a public speaker and motivational speaker and educator. Like, all the three things. Like, if you were to ask my first and second grade teacher, like, what has been most or least likely to do, those would have been at the bottom of the list.

So this idea of speaking became a very... so throughout my life I've always been, it's a strange skill that I don't often talk about. It's a skill. It's a strange reality that I don't often talk about. I often, I'm aware of your energy. I'm aware of your speech patterns. And I will adjust accordingly. And most of the time I'll just sit and take it in, right?

But I'll always kind of model what someone else is doing or balance it. Yeah. But that's definitely a skill that I'm aware of and try to be present for and pay attention to. And, um, most of the time I realized, so I grew up in a very explosive, like when I speak with that, he wasn't a bad person. He's just a very explosive temper. So my reaction was internal. So I just like, that's why I had a speech impediment, that's why I stuttered. Because it wasn't that I had a speech impediment, it's that any time I talked to an authority, I was scared, I was shaking. So I've learned to develop the ability to one, pay attention, two, calm myself down, bring down that level of anxiety

with anyone I'm talking to and then just respond rather than react. But yeah, totally something. I think I started to be aware of it when I was probably 16 in high school because I started to become more aware of this authority, relationship I had with authority where I was fearful because I thought I was going to be attacked or ridiculed or something. So yeah, that's kind of where that started. That's so fascinating to me because I, I am somebody that I think I pay attention to that stuff and I observe it and I notice it and I'm, I'm never going to be the like, I'm chill guys. I'm super, I'm never going to be that, but I'm working on, on trying to kind of be a little, at least a little bit more measured and

be able to sort of match the person that I'm talking to. Because again, if I had, if I had a penny for every time people were like, Whoa, you're intense, aren't you? Like you're, you know, and sometimes that's good. And sometimes it doesn't work. So being able to recognize and shift you. Yes. Why?

I'll be more chill or less. Really? Will I though? I don't know. All right. We'll be more chill. Really? Yeah. Will I, though? Yeah. I don't know. All right, we'll see. Stay tuned. Stay tuned.

You're aware of it, right? Yeah. If you're aware of the fact that your energy is going to be picked up by your baby. Right, right, right, right. It'll be more like, and they're just so grounding. They're so like, wow, this is real. Like, this is amazing. Yeah, I have a much better sense of what I should be getting excited over now, that i have a living creature that i'm taking care of don't get worked up over

the other stuff and and the overwhelming sense of gratitude every minute of your life just allows you to stop and breathe and go wow thank you you know yeah um and that in itself is like this grounding feeling of calming and soothing and love and like bringing down an object. And again, not to say that what you do isn't superpower. Like it's so important to be able to do that. And I turn that on sometimes. It's part of what I bring to the table. I mean, it is what it is.

And I turn that on sometimes. Like when I speak in front of a crowd, like I'm intentionally turning that on. But again, when I talk, if you've ever listened to my podcast, like there's certain times earlier on where I was like that. And I listened to it like a minute to take a breath. Because like most people listen to it on 1.5. I hope no one listens to my shit on 1.5 because that would be really anxiety inducing. I calm it down and hopefully it's still engaging enough for people.

Because I just, I'm conscious of being articulate and make sure, like Jordan's a good example, right? Dr. Jordan Shallow, we speak up so bright, but talk so fast that as a podcast host, most people are like, what did he just say? Like, I have no idea what he said. So I have to be aware of breathe, articulate, choose your words correctly, make sure you're conveying the right message. Yeah. I'm really glad I asked that last question and we're going to finish off on that because truly one of the things that I want to get at the top of a mountain, you're standing at the bottom, and some people think, I'm never going to get there. Holy shit, how could anyone do this? And they turn away, and some people look at it and think,

holy shit, and then they start climbing. And, you know, you're talking about being a kid who was overweight and had a speech impediment and all of these things, and now you're somebody whose job is to stand up on stage and speak. And you did that. You looked at the top of the mountain and you started climbing instead of turning away. But I didn't look at the top of the mountain, right? That's always the mistake because it's never about the top of the mountain.

Well, you looked a couple feet in front of you and took that step. It's just the next step. But that's an attitude that some people don't have or haven't cultivated yet, and that's the thing that I think people can benefit so much from is hearing stories from people like you and thinking, no, you don't just wake up at the top of the mountain. You have to. There are so many steps between here and there.

If I would have thought about the top of the mountain, I wouldn't have started. Yeah, yeah. That's just the reality. It's like, where do I have to go now? Maybe you start off with the top of the mountain in mind, but you go, well, okay. Like, if you've ever ever climbed a mountain you realize there's many summits right there's many passes that you have to go through you're like the first one like all right oh shit there's the next one it's way bigger yeah like and that's that's just life you expect that in life

and now you almost like I encourage it I'm like I'm seeking obstacles sometimes yeah I'm like okay how do I grow where's my blind spot where am I okay, how do I grow? Where's my blind spot? Where am I weak and how do I grow? That's just, and, you know, I guess lesson to take away from the conversation to your audience is like, learn to say thank you for your obstacles. The bigger the obstacle, the bigger the opportunity for growth. And no matter what it is, and there's many obstacles in front of us all. Smile and say thank you. And I'd say that when we're training. Like in the deepest depths of your hardest set, smile. Knowing that's your greatest opportunity to become your greatest self. So when putting people through the hardest leg workouts of their life,

it's like I make them smile when it sucks. Because imagine what you're doing to your brain. You're going, oh, this is good. I like this. Rather than, oh, my God, I dread this. It sucks. And I have a story around climbing a mountain. Again, going down another tangent.

But last year I climbed a mountain, a six-and-a-half, seven-hour climb. And the first hour I was dreading it. I was like, oh, my God, this is going to suck. I don't know why I'm doing this. I'm not going to be able to finish. And then I looked around. I was in Northern California. I looked around.

And I was like, God, it's beautiful. It's blue skies. It's a beautiful day. I'm with two of my best friends in the world. Thank you. In the next six hours, I think I floated up the mountain. I had no pain, no discomfort, no leg burning. Like, my lungs didn't feel like they were going to sear out of my chest.

Like, it's amazing. It's just that switch of your brain. So everyone just realized, like, every time you have an obstacle or a challenge, no matter how much it sucks or how much it seems to suck at that time, it's making you better. It's giving you a callus. Yeah. Right?

It's developing that callus and that wisdom you a callus, right? It's developing that callus and that wisdom ultimately. Like, oh, I can help people now. I can learn something new and I can help myself. Yeah. It's not about the obstacles. It's about your, your attitude towards them and how you approach it. Everybody's got shit. Everybody's got big, big stuff. That's okay. Like. How do you take it? With a smile. I'm not going to say anything else and fuck it up. That's a great place to end off. Thank you, Ben.

I appreciate it. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. I appreciate it. Thanks again to Ben for taking the time to have that chat with me. Such a great guy, such a knowledgeable guy. And this might be one of those podcasts that I actually listen back to, you know, cause I hate to hear my own voice, but sometimes it's worth it when the guest is just so good. So anyway, um, let me know what you think. Hit me up on Instagram at the muscle

Maven. Tell me what you thought of the podcast. If you liked it, please share it, share it with somebody who could benefit from it. Take a screenshot, post it on social media. It would make my day and, uh, leave a nice rating and review on iTunes if you like it so that we can keep doing what we're doing. I would appreciate that. Next week, I have the very successful and fit and photogenic Marcus Philly on the podcast, the founder of Revival Strength, which is a pretty epic training program for training and nutrition. I know a couple friends who are going through it and I mean, just take a look at Marcus Philly. He seems to know what he's, he's doing. So anyway, looking forward to chatting with him and I hope you join me next week. Thanks for listening.