Barbell Shrugged - Building a Strength and Conditioning Certification w/ Nate Palin, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #533

Episode Date: December 23, 2020

Nate Palin is the Director of Education at the FitOps Foundation, an organization that equips veterans who are passionate about fitness, health, and wellness to find success after the military.    Using fitness and the leadership skills that they gained during their time in the service, veterans are equipped with a new mission: to help improve the lives of others. Focusing on professional and personal development, veterans who graduate from FitOps are experts in fitness coaching, and are awarded a fitness industry professional certification and designated as Certified Veteran Fitness Operatives (CVFO), which gives them the tools necessary to launch a career in fitness and leadership.   Nate Palin served as a leader in the 2nd Ranger Battalion for seven years prior to his transition to strength and conditioning. Over the course of five combat deployments in support of Operations Enduring and Iraqi Freedom, Nate experienced the military’s performance shortcomings and observed the need for enhanced physical training to better support mission critical tasks.    He began his coaching career in 2010, narrowed his focus to tactical strength and conditioning as a Performance Specialist for EXOS in Washington, D.C. in 2012, and coached Special Operations Forces at Joint Base Lewis-McChord from 2015 to 2018.   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged: Incorporating mental health into a strength certification  How to build a certification and the hierarchy of needs for trainers Fundamentals to coaching and tactics to get coaches there. The future for FitOps in a Covid-19 world   Nate Palin on Instagram Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram ———————————————— Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   PowerDot - Save 20% using code BBS at http://PowerDot.com/BBS    InsideTracker: insidetracker.com use code “shrugged25” to save 25%   Fittogether - Fitness ONLY Social Media App   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   www.masszymes.com/shruggedfree  - for FREE bottle of BiOptimizers Masszymes   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://bit.ly/3b6GZFj Save 5% using the coupon code “Shrugged”

Shrugged family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, Nate Palin, Director of Education at the FitOps Foundation. If you've been paying attention, this entire year we've been hanging out with the crew down at FitOps doing amazing work, helping veterans with PTSD transition from their military life into civilian life with PTSD, getting them into the fitness profession, certifying them and the person that is designing that certification process we have on the show today. We're talking about how to build a certification, how he prioritizes specific things in those certifications, and it's just a really cool conversation.

Such top-notch human beings that are a part of the FitOps Foundation doing great work down there, all the way from the top with Matt Hesse, who we just had on the show again last week. We'll be releasing that one here shortly. Sina, he's a big part of it and just an amazing human being that does so much good in the world. Harrison, Johnny Martin, and now Nate Palin, you can add to that crew of just really awesome people involved in the FitOps Foundation. So if you know any military vets looking to get into the training industry,

their camps are starting back up. So make sure you get over to fitops.org. And if you have not been a part or do not know anybody that is looking to get into it but would like to learn more about the FitOps Foundation and maybe even be a part of donating some money to help raise funds so they can build more and more and do better and better and do just amazing things for veterans that need help and want to get into the fitness industry. Get over to fitops.org and check out everything that they have on their site. Before we get into

it, we got to pay the bills. We got to talk about PowerDot. I actually love my PowerDot so much. I use it almost daily. It's been phenomenal in recovery from my separated shoulder. I needed like four, eight weeks to really heal. And then the final touches, I've just had the PowerDot on every single day. And it's made a massive difference in the amount of pain that I'm feeling every day. It's increased recovery. I'm reading all of this off script and giving you my honest opinion of how awesome this unit is. It's increased recovery. I'm reading all of this off script and giving you the honest, my honest opinion of how awesome this unit is. It's, uh, travels with me, uh, when I'm on the road because it comes in a very compact little easy carrying case. It hooks up to your phone.

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This is like day one of on the job. You were the old program manager at TSAC, Tactical Strength and Conditioning for the NSCA, and you are now heading up the FitOps program with Matt Hesse and crew down in Bentonville, Arkansas, which I'll let you do it. Tell me about FitOps before we get into your whole career. What does FitOps mean to you before I say my piece about how awesome it is? Yeah, I think for me, FitOps is kind of the final arch and come in

full circle. So as somebody who 10 years ago was getting out of the military, no real clue as to next steps had already walked a little bit down the marketing path and decided it wasn't for me, I sort of happened into the personal training world, as I like to say a way to make some money while I decided what to do with my life. Yeah kicked me off on a professional path of, you know, coaching and then NSCA tactical. And now, 10 years later, essentially the opportunity to lend that experience to fit ops in order to empower veterans to become personal trainers and, you know, professionalize that craft as part of a much, much bigger continuum that can hopefully lead into some professional coaching. And of course, the main

component of all of that is also battling suicide along the way by providing a renewed, you know, purpose to these folks much in the way that I was fortunate enough to receive that renewed purpose years ago. Yeah. Doug and I went down and spoke at Camp 10, Class 10 down at Camp War Eagle, right? I believe. The old location. Good question. I haven't been fortunate enough to attend a camp yet. Well, tell Matt to get it going because we're going down on Monday.

We're bringing a cameraman. We're going to go check out the brand new 450 acre property. We're going to carve our name in a tree and call it ours. We're really excited about it. The number of opportunities that have presented themselves from that day that we got to go down and speak and interview some of the, I did a lot of crying that week. I had a lot of just like gut check moments talking to people that have lived a life that I never even knew people lived and hearing their stories coming out of service and transitioning into civilian life. Just the fact that they're there taking action is beyond incredible. And then just some of the stuff that they've had to overcome is just wild to me.

Um, but how, how did it transition into the NSCA and becoming like a pro program manager for them? Because that's, you kind of skipped a lot of stages along the way. Most people are like baseball coach or strength coaches at baseball teams or football teams. How did you land that position? Well, two things. You know, one, I say my history is a long and colorful one, and I don't typically recommend the path I took because it's pretty jagged, I guess.

And the other part of that is it certainly is not a convenient straight line. Like I think a lot of coaches kind of flow through. So I'm also not known for my brevity. So I tried to give you the brief version and I actually succeeded, which is extremely rare. So I tried to dive a touch deeper. So personal trained for a couple of years, running my own business, kind of figuring out what next steps were. And I heard that there were going to be coaching positions within special operations. So I actually came from a special operations background in second Ranger

battalion. We did not at that time have the luxury of coaches. So of course we went, you know, full speed into the wall, whether the direction was the right direction or not with no real, you know, consideration for professional training and, or at least, you know, obviously, ignorantly, so we didn't know. So at the time, we thought we were, we're doing all the right things. So, you know, even just seeing the little bit of strength training and incorporating that into a more endurance dominant approach, and seeing how much that really propelled my fitness level. I figured that it would be

phenomenal to kind of learn the craft and bring that back to special operations. So within a couple years, really didn't deserve it to be honest, but I got offered a role out in Washington, DC. Really, I just made some of the right connects along the way. And truth is, it's because I could get the right level clearance pretty easily, even if my resume really didn't necessarily prepare me. I guess they felt I had some of the intangibles. And fortunately for me, there's a phenomenal crew out there that could really get me up to speed on the coaching side of the house pretty quick. So kind of thrown into the deep end out there with Department of Defense. Ran that for a couple of years. And, you know, DC is an expensive place. Wife at the time had trouble finding a position for herself out there. So

kind of living on a small coaching, you know, income in a one bedroom apartment in DC just wasn't cutting it. So she started the surge, found something great in Seattle. I always say she's much, much more employable than I am. So we moved back that way. I reopened the business, did that for a year. Kind of the irony of all this is when I was moving back to Seattle, I heard there was a position opening up with First Special Forces Group. So I applied for that position. They wouldn't even really look over my resume, even though I was really doing the exact same thing already within the same community. So it would have been an easy plug and play, but they were looking for somebody with the prerequisites

of five years at a high level, you know, which is pretty much the standard within special operations. And I can respect that. So even with a few, what I'd call heavy hitters calling on my behalf, it fell short. So I reopened that business for a year. During that year, I jumped on an Exos presents video and did a little bit of like tactical training presenting for them. And in doing that, I did it with Coach Rob Hartman, who was one of the coaches at First Group. And so I got to know him, and he said, hey, we have a new opening. Why don't you apply? So, of course, one year after my resume not even really making it all the way across the desk without being rejected, you know, I go down there to First Group.

And actually, I just got invited down to train. So it's kind of like, hey, come lift, hang out. And so went down there, lifted for a couple hours, really hit it off the staff, just a phenomenal, phenomenal crew there. And next thing I know, you know, soaked in sweat, step into the office, they close the door behind me and they're like, take a seat, it's interview time. And was like interview time though fortunately you're all jazzed up from working out you feel like a monster I wish all of the interviews I've ever had came immediately like did you see what I did in there how could you not hire me I'm so jacked look at me I just wanted everything you've obviously never seen me live no but so I guess it went well because afterwards I got hugs from two of the coaches it's just that

kind of crew really a close-knit family there and next thing I know getting a call to start there about a week later and uh so three years at first group, absolutely amazing experience. I'll say this. I was not ready to leave. I felt like I was just getting started in coaching. During that time, I also got a little bit caught up and finished a master's in kinesiology because that was one thing I was short of was a degree in that field. My degree was in marketing and management.

And so really just have kind of spent my entire coaching career trying to get caught up to my peers and get a random call in December from somebody saying, hey, there's this position open at NSCA, you know, you should apply for it. And I didn't really know what the position entailed. And what I knew at the NSCA was, you know, somewhere that I sent some membership dues and they certified me and I attended some conferences. I really didn't know a ton about the organization. And so I kind of ignored that truth told and was kind of stepping foot on a little short vacation on a Island office off of Seattle. So another person hit me up with the same advice and kind of turned them down in the same way. And next thing I

know, I got a call from the previous program manager, Tyler Christensen, and he said, Hey, I'm on my way out. You've been identified for from a few people as kind of the next to take over. So I talked to him a little bit more in depth about what it entailed, decided, wow, this is a random collection of a lot of what makes up who I am, which is there is a marketing component or a business component to it. There is obviously a very strong tactical component to it and then a coaching component to it. So, you know, I'd kind of always hated the path I took because it felt like it made me behind everything. And then they sort of randomly all integrated into this position. So even though I wasn't ready to stop coaching, I went ahead,

took that position as a program manager. And that's where I've been the last two and a half years prior to a random text on a Tuesday from Matt Hesse. I think a lot of people think of the NSCA and they immediately think strength and conditioning coaches in college and pro sports. How did the military and tactical athletes kind of fall into that realm? It doesn't completely align, yet I kind of always consider operators to be professional athletes that may just die at the end of the day. The consequences are much greater than just getting tackled on the field. Just a little, little bit more. Yeah, right. You know, performance isn't, you know, success not measured in wins and losses, of course, you know, so much as things a lot more serious than that. But in the same time,

while they're not out on a field, certainly what, you know, comprises what they need to do has a very strong um you know physical support structure so i like to talk often and people are maybe sick of hearing me talk about it but something called the tactical animal which is basically the idea that like the physiology of an operator is not really any different than any other person walking the planet and honestly from like a physical specimen perspective you know some are beasts but on the average I mean you know I was a buck 50 and not super strong not super fast but kind of strong enough fast enough and so there's not a whole lot that's outside of the norm there really what makes them special is on the psychological and the cognitive side of the

house. And so I think the best thing that coaches can do in that environment, and the reason coaches were really brought in, was to give them a better physical platform on which they can display their more cognitive skill set, right? So high pressure decision making, marksmanship, communication, land navigation. I mean, you could go all day with the different things that comprise what they do, but none of those things are uniquely physical in nature. It's just that they're very, very cognitively demanding, and if you can reduce the effects of physical fatigue on the operator,

they can better display those cognitive skills. Now, everything that you're working on at the NSCA in that program manager role has to do with being on the battlefield or preparing for the battlefield. And now you're transitioning into a role at FitOps where you're dealing with the transition from battlefield to real life and civilian life outside of kind of this ecosystem that is its own thing. Like the military operates very independently from civilian life. And that transition by itself without the PTSD and the struggles that go along with that, that all of those athletes and coaches have, what do you see some of the big struggles that you need to address kind of in your own skill set

to be able to handle some of those larger, less tangible problems? Yeah, I actually had a great call yesterday with Johnny Martin who heads up a lot. Love that guy. Oh my gosh. Love that guy. That guy loves life, doesn life doesn't he i literally i got off that call and i texted matt like right away i was like i love johnny love that guy yes he is awesome he's the real john martin um yeah he's all fired up he's the best but you know he's got such a great handle on a lot of that transitional and that mental component. And, you know, the way I see it is I don't need, I don't ever need to be the guy that knows everything. I need to be the guy that knows the guy that knows everything. And fortunately for me, at NSCA Tactical, my network, you know, absolutely exploded out of the last couple years and is going to continue to do so. I'm still in the community, still in that family. And I keep telling everybody, everyone's like, Hey, congrats. I'm like,

don't congratulate me yet. Cause I'm going to be blowing you up to help us out. Um, there's just so many great minds to handle that kind of stuff. And so there's my first exposure to Johnny within fit ops. And of course he's going to handle a lot of that side of the house. And so I can stick a little bit more to my specialty while also, of course, leaning on him to get me up to speed on what I need to know. Cause you know, I don't need it again. I don't need to know everything, but I need to know enough to, to be smart, not be dangerous. The other thing that I kind of caution myself on is relying on my personal experience. Cause I can say, well, I transitioned out 10 years ago and this was my experience and therefore it's everybody's

and that will quickly get you in hot water quite frankly too I've seen it with veteran coaches in the military so you think of being a veteran as an advantage and it certainly can be but I think that it could be a detriment if you start assuming that you know everything about the guys you train just because you serve and for example for me I served in second ranger batt. I'm sure if I went back there today, it'd be very different, but it was especially different training green berets. That's a whole other component of special operations. And so I never led with, Hey, I'm, you know, a ranger and I know everything about you. In fact, I preferred for the other coaches to not even tell anybody that, um, let me be a coach first. Let me learn

about that community. And I think that's the best way to approach it. And certainly at FitOps, I'm going to take that same approach as there are other people who know this population and the best way to transition them a lot more intimately than I do. You know, kind of stay in my lane and at the same time look to expand it. Yeah. For anybody that's listening to and keeps hearing us say FitOps and we get excited when you say some of these names please go back and listen to some of the shows um i want to say that those shows are somewhere around the 450 number uh episode 450 ish it was in february of 2020 um that they all posted we had seven shows in a row so johnny martin harrison johnson start at the top and listen to the one with matt hesse of the overall program that they all posted. We had seven shows in a row. So Johnny Martin, Harrison Johnson,

start at the top and listen to the one with Matt Hesse of the overall program, what they're doing to help military vets with PTSD transition into the civilian life and then get into the fitness industry. So you can see kind of the big why behind everything. And then hearing some of the stories from like Bobby Sommers and Lloyd.

I mean, they're incredibly inspiring to just see kind of the where people have been and where they're going and how this program is radically shifting the landscape of PTSD and the kind of the research and giving people a purpose behind that transition. When you are going in to take this role, one thing that I was super, when we were down there, I was very interested in just the overall program itself. But now that we've been down there and we've been able to see how great it runs, the community, the energy, how excited everyone is to be there, you're stepping in and handling the actual curriculum that is going to be there so how does that look um just in in a basic structure of writing a three-week long program to get somebody

from relatively zero or a passion and love for fitness and understanding the military to now you're capable of passing a test and learning how to go train somebody. Yeah. I wish I had my dry erase board that, you know, had these insane diagram that I, that I texted Matt kind of when we had first talked, you know, I was like, I'm never leaving Colorado Springs or the NSCA. And then two minutes later, I can't sleep and I'm drafted all over this thing. So I've got all kinds of ideas and how can you not be passionate about the mission? It's incredible. So I think the biggest thing is to kind of,

to almost back out of what you just said, which is it's not three weeks. You know, it's truly a continuum. And so what I kind of looked to do was, hey, can we get further ahead of this? And then can we also push further into the future with it so that it's not just this one-stop shop camp kind of situation it's really a continuation of professionalism and so the you know the first part of that is right now and I'm speaking a little bit out of turn

probably but camp is in super super high demand a, a lot of people want to be there. Obviously, it's got a ton to offer in itself. That said, there are study prerequisites to camp currently. What I would like to do is have there be a study prerequisite to even have your application considered for camp. So again, because we are trying to get people who are really serious about this and because demand is so high, that affords us the opportunity to be a little bit more selective. So in being selective, we can kind of say, Hey,

here's the foundational sciences. You can learn these at your own speed. Here's certain things you need to complete along the way via, you know, our learning management software. We'll have support. We'll have other outreach and things like that for you as well. And then sort of, okay, once you've checked that that block, now we can look at your application as a whole and, you know, accept you to a camp. Once you're accepted to a camp, that kind of starts like a new mindset of, OK, let's shift out of the, you know, these scientific foundations and start to look more at applications, start to look more at camp expectations. And then also let's start to, these are kind of Matt Hesse's words, but let's start to build a community before people even show up to camp.

So now what we can do, let's just call it arbitrarily four weeks out. Four weeks out from camp, we can take people who already have kind of gone through these prereqs and put them all in a class together so they can start building community. They can start understanding that, hey, all this kind of abstract, scientific foundational knowledge that you've been exposed to is going to be applied in a real world setting once you hit the ground on camp. Because what I would not like camp to be is a regurgitation of what they were supposed to complete prior to, but instead makes you rebuild on.

And so of course there's going to be some reviews. We can't pretend that, you know, however long it takes somebody, but we can't pretend that that's going to get them everything they need to know. They could at least give us a good foundation. And so then on camp, be a lot more focused on, you know, what I would call what you actually need to know to be a coach and start taking those abstract concepts, implementing them in real life. And then of course, integrating all of that stuff with the resilience type of things, the mental component, the business component, all of the other, you know, the things that made you cry, right? Like all of the other value of the camp and make sure that we wrap the training inside of all of that

type of thing. And then of course, at some point we need to certify them. I know we prefer to do that prior to them leaving camp. And so we'll make sure that that happens as well. Before that, they'll probably need to be some type of specific review for whatever certification we roll with. Because I'm anyway looking to make the foundational stuff a little bit more certification agnostic and just sort of like good information is good information and it's going to apply to everything then of course whatever certification you go with they're going to have some of their specific kind of niche components so after that following camp I know right now we work to to place people in different roles and kind of help build and provide opportunities for them moving forward but

we want to create a whole post-camp curriculum that provides a lot of reach back and also kind of empowers them to continue building their coaching career. Some of that's going to be training X's and O's. Some of that is going to be business X's and O's. And we want to, of course, bring in as many professionals as we can to contribute to that. And, you know, sometimes the solution might be built by FitOps and reside within FitOps. Sometimes the solution might be somebody outside of the organization that we partner with in a different way.

But we just want to make sure that we continue to give them the opportunity to professionalize their craft. I would love to ultimately then kind of like take that up another step and lead to a CSCS certification and have some folks go on to be professional coaches and ideally professional coaches in the tactical setting. Shrug family, I am so excited to talk to you about the Diesel Dad 30-Day Challenge that we are launching on Saturday for busy dads to get strong, lean, and athletic without sacrificing family, fatherhood, or fitness.

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that are just overwhelmed with the lack of time and they only know that they need to be in the gym. 60 to 90 minutes. That's the only way that they know how to train. And we're totally reshaping all this so on saturday get to barbell shrug.com forward slash diesel dad challenge sign up 30 days commit do it strongly in an athletic without sacrificing family fatherhood or fitness it's coming and we're stoked we'll see you guys let's get back to the show so you're guys pushing them any one,

any one direction where they're either going to work for someone else or they're going to start their own, their own business. And if they are being pushed in the, um, the solopreneur route, like you teach them lead gen and how to get clients. Anyone that's ever had any start tried to start any service business and inevitably finds out that doing the work is the easy part. Getting clients tends to be the new challenge for those people. Yeah, so that is a big part of the course is some of the entrepreneurial endeavors. And even if you go work for someone else in the training world, you still need a lot of those entrepreneurial skills. And heck, I was fortunate enough in my marketing degree,

they kind of teach you like be your own business, even when you're an employee. And so you're continuing to market yourself and kind of look for your next opportunities and those types of things. And those are being formalized and structured and because they already do exist on camp, but it'll be formalized, structured and then integrated with the training component and then same thing post camp. So kind of to your point, what I'd love to see, for example, is let's say somebody gets out, goes, works for a big box gym and is successful there, but says, okay, it's time for me to take this, you know, kind of on my own,

open my own facility, whatever it is that we still provide that type of support down the road as well. So that we continue to be there for their growth and never let them kind of outgrow fit ops, you know, at large. Yeah. I think the ecosystem that you guys have built and or are building currently is especially with kind of the stuff that Johnny's been working on and bringing people back and building that support community. I remember one of the things that Matt was so excited about was the 0% suicide rate in the program so far. And they've run 10, 11 classes. And I mean,

I think most people are aware, either through like the 22 pushups a day challenge that the suicide rate for vets is insanely high. And the thing that many of them, when we were down there, we're talking about is just feeling lonely and not having a community of people and and doing that around training and strength is just it's the best way to do it um i think it's a push-up a day thing is because there's if i remember correctly it's because there's 22 suicides per day for veterans and so it's like it's like the daily reminder that hey we need to fucking do something about this. Yeah. But community building and building a strength and conditioning program, that's not always the same person.

How do you see that unrolling and kind of keeping that unity and that community going all while realizing that your main goal or the highest level goal is to be able to teach them to be business owners or trainers and keep that education level high. Yeah, I mean, you just kind of hit the nail on the head with that not always being the same person. So I think part of it is helping them identify what kind of person they are and then allowing that to steer a little bit of the path of where they go on the continuum. You know, another part of the, like, it might not even

make sense for them to stay specifically within strength and conditioning. Like, there's plenty of administrative roles within human performance. There's plenty of, you know, sister professions within human performance that could be a better path to lead them on. And so, is it even, you know, do we keep them strictly in strength conditioning, or do so is it even, you know, do we keep them strictly in strength conditioning or do we push them toward, you know, being cognitive performance specialists or athletic trainers or physical therapists or, you know, what does that further future professionalization mean? Or maybe they even head up a facility. I mean, heck, maybe they're a terrible coach, but a phenomenal business owner. And so how do we help them to do that? I think part of what you see on this staff as it, you know, slowly builds is really a kind of a diversification of professionals that can support those different initiatives. And then, of course, you know, we're fortunate enough to have such a phenomenal cause that everybody wants to lend their expertise to it. And so of course, we're

going to, we're going to find ways to include them. So yeah, kind of like I spoke to before, I don't know that we'll always be or have that answer. But we will know who does and we'll make sure to make those connections as needed along the way. Matt has did a great job of finding himself a media channel and a podcast that likes putting his people on. I know that, that resourceful man. He sure knows how to do things. As the numbers grow inside FitOps and as you're at class 11 coming up, when is the next class? I know COVID shut down two or three classes. When is the next one? Is it 2021? The hope is January. Beautiful. I'll be there. Let's do it. You know, as class 11 turns into class 35 and class 100, you know, there's going to be a massive pool of people that are, as you kind of talk about,

branching off in a zillion different ways. Do you see strength and conditioning really still being at the heart of fit ops? Or is that kind of just the buy in basic training that they all share and that then they can kind of explore? Like I know lawyers that are in fitness, they don't know how to coach anybody, but they love fitness and they love the law. And that's what they end up doing. Or people that love numbers and people that like so many people think that you have to go and be a personal trainer, even though that thing, that, that job, that role specifically doesn't even work for the person that is attempted to do it. Do you see that being a big opportunity to kind of expand people's horizon while they're at camp and say, hey, here's 20 different options and we've got a leader in every single one that can show you the way? I'll tell you what, ultimately, I think that'd be a phenomenal place to be.

You know, my early thoughts are there's a variety of people that attend the camp, right? And so one is, there might be somebody who just wants to go to the camp for camp sake, never has any aspiration of training as much as we kind of would prefer to vet some people out. And they leave the camp and it's over and they take with them what they take with them and they don't take some components, right? And so to me, that's somebody who, you know, eventually, if we had 20 different paths for them to follow, maybe they find one of those other paths while on camp. I think you're always going to have strength and conditioning or fitness as the gateway because that's what people are comfortable with. It's a common language. It gets people excited. It'll get people on camp. The next is somebody who does get personal training certified, does take that with them and coach, but they just coach as, you know, not really

as a profession, but more of something to do to make some money while they go to school to do something else or something to buy some time, you know, kind of like I did. And I just haven't quit yet, I guess, but don't quit. Not planning any time. You're always just getting started. That's the problem. You can't quit if you're always just getting started. That's the problem. You can't quit if you're always just getting started. Very true. You know, and then the third is someone who actually takes it and runs with it and they become a strength conditioning professional of some kind, whether that's the best trainer at an LA fitness or that's opening their own business or, you know, eventually kind of following the path I did where they lead into a profession in coaching, whether it's sport or tactical. So, you know,

you kind of have the camp serves a lot of different people in a lot of different ways. And while we're going to create a continuum, we don't know that everybody's going to take advantage of it. But of course, if that continuum includes more and more outcomes on the other side and more and more professional opportunities, then I think we're going to keep more and more outcomes on the other side and more and more professional opportunities, then I think we're going to keep more and more people a part of it and in the system. And then two, now you've created your own professionals to come and give back, you know, much in the way that former, you know, camp attendees come back as squad leaders. And if we keep up in the game and increasing the value of the education that we give them,

they're only going to come back stronger and more successful in their businesses. So the ultimate goal, right, is that it just continues to feed itself. I would love to talk about the actual structure of the program that you're putting together. We have a ton of people that are coaches. I mean, athletes always love hearing what's in a coach's brain of why they write the programs and workouts that they write. And then gym owners that may be wanting to scale into seminars or, um, but when you start to look at that, that prerequisite course, what are some of the big bullets that you're, you're outlining on, you know, need to know before you show up at

camp, uh, just as like a buy-in to being able to have the conversation that you're going to have at camp? Yeah. So, you know, I literally was working on that prior to this call. So, I can pull it up and cheat a little bit. There you go. Cheating. But I can also claim that it's a work in progress, right? Yeah. Basically, there's an obvious intro, right? So just given an overview of fit ops and sort of the preview of all the content. And then, you know, I think the backbone of anything exercise science, if we're just talking science specific, it's going to be the physiology component. And so I kind of break that into structure and function. So you know,

structures like, hey, what is this muscle? What is this bone? And then function is more the application of those, you know, through, you know, motor development, biomechanics, bioenergetics, that kind of thing. And then, of course, supportive components of all that. So nutrition, psychology, and then that kind of leads into what I would say is going to be really reiterated and probably a heavy component of the on-camp stuff would say is going to be really reiterated and probably a heavy component of the on-camp stuff, which is going to be, but again, we'll give them a little bit of an initial dose enough probably to scare them, but also get them excited because it's really the reason that they're getting into this stuff. So your assessment component, your program design,

and then of course, you know, applying those to different populations, whether it's special populations, and then certainly knowing your scope of practice. What I think the scope of practice part will also do is just an initial glimpse at some of the other professions. So kind of understanding where strength and conditioning rubs up against things like mental performance, and just start to give them an idea that there's other human performance professions out there. And that would kind of be just the prerequisite. So again, I mean, it's kind of dry, but it's scientific foundations. And of course, within that, we want to make sure to do it in a way that's, that's pretty darn engaging, and kind of show what, but I don't want them to feel like as they're

just reading words on a page, we want to show them a little bit of that application component right away so that they know that like, hey, I'm just learning right now about, you know, joint actions. Well, bring that to life just enough to let them know that, hey, this is actually going to be important when you start coaching down the road. So that way they're not just learning it in a vacuum and sort of words for words sake, but we start to build towards something that has meaning to them. And so of course, tying it in pretty early to meaning. So they would go through that process. Again, this isn't a perfect world.

None of this is approved yet, but they would go through that process, and that would kind of earn them the right to a pre-camp thing. And then once we get into that pre-camp community that I talked about earlier, let's, again, arbitrarily call it four weeks. So if we've got four weeks leading up to camp, we can start to build community within that we can take, you know, for example, part of what I was talking to Johnny about yesterday is like, hey, if you had one thing to start sharing with them four weeks prior to camp, so that it didn't hit him in the face on day one of camp, what would

it be? And so we talked a little bit about the concept of like, hey, empowerment over entitlement, like, this is an opportunity for you to leverage things that you've learned and learn new things. This is not us giving you stuff. And I would do, of course, the same thing with, you know, the training side of the house is, okay, now we can really rev it up a little bit, not necessarily give them a ton more information, but just start to set the stage for what we're going to do at camp. And then, of course, Wade Olson who runs the, uh, training on camp. Love that guy too.

He was on barbell truck. Go check out Devin Levesque, uh, episode. He co-hosted. Oh, we know all these people. I feel so good right now.

You're on it. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry. I just got so excited when you said Wade's name. Me too. because I think about him and I crushing some tacos right before I left pretty sweet yeah so of course you know what what how Wade wants to run some of the camp stuff and want what he wants to make sure people know and

of course Jen too so just getting the whole team's input on hey when someone shows up day one what do you want to make sure that they know and that they're excited about? And just kind of continue that build up, build that community prior to camp. So, again, get them away from some of the drier scientific foundational type of stuff. I mean, we're going to make it as sexy as possible. But we also know that that might weed a few people out. And it is a little bit of a preliminary test of commitment is them at their own pace, working through a course curriculum that checks all the blocks for the underpinnings of what you need to know to be a successful coach.

Yeah. I think one thing that's really cool about the in-person stuff and the fact that people actually get to spend three weeks at camp. I mean, the majority of certifications, I think when I did, uh, when I did boils, we had a prereq, like eight videos to watch, but then it was only a one day in person. And we basically went through like FMS and some single leg stuff. And then they kind of gave us a certain said you you're good. And three weeks is a great time because you have to dig into a lot of the actual coaching and people get to spend time on the floor in front of people finding their own voice. Is that, you know, that part of it is a lot of, it's almost like the entertainment factor and being able to tell somebody to push their hips back, but not do it in the driest, most

boring way possible so that you can actually maintain having a business and getting clients and making it fun. So if someone wants to come back, do you get into or have interest in kind of that side of getting to understand that this thing's got to be fun and coaching is supposed to be like a really good part of someone's day. Oh, yes, absolutely. So, you know, there's a huge communication component. There's going to be definitely a buying component, you know. I'm, of course, a big fan of Brett Bartholomew. And I think he's got a lot of great stuff on really, you know,

quantifying something that's really been looked at as qualitative. And, of course, Nick Winkleman's got his new book on the language of coaching. It's got some phenomenal stuff in it. And, you know, a lot of that isn't just about, hey, effective queuing, it's effective communication, which creates an environment where people succeed and people are happy. And people are also, you know, talking back as there's a full feedback system. So a temptation of new coaches, myself included, is sort of like, here's me regurgitating the book and giving you an anatomy lesson while you squat. And while, you know, never a bad thing for somebody new, because they're kind of learning as they do that, not necessarily effective for the athlete or effective for creating a, you know, what we call a fun training environment and so another piece of that is I don't kind of know what's been standard up to date but I would guess that there's a good amount of guests that come by the camp and guest coaching you know we want to bring in people from a course outside of the fit ops community

to sort of like got a whole list give them the stage let them show what it means to be a professional coach on the floor because I think sometimes it's hard to explain that. And then somebody sees it and goes like, oh, whoa, that's my future. This is fun. Like I actually enjoy training right now. I'm not joking. I've got a whole list. I talked to Harrison yesterday.

I said, Harrison, I'm coming down. We're bringing Travis Mash. That's the strongest man that's ever walked on the face of this earth, pound for pound, bringing him. He's going to come down to Camp 11. We've got a whole bunch of people. Corey Gregory wants to come to come hang out with the whole list of shrugged people we're bringing them i love it uh yeah one of the one of the interesting things that's um about the actual population that you're going to be certifying there is they have this mental emotional ptsd

they've got stories that are going on in their brain. And I think one of the hardest barriers for many of them is the idea of trust and really thinking that everybody in that camp has their back and the coaches are genuinely there to make them better. I mean, when we were there, there was immediately a guy that got kicked out of camp and it wasn't, I just want to say like, it just felt like he didn't trust anybody that was there. He just showed up and it was all, well, I need this. I need that. This is my thing. And it was like, no, we're all in this thing together. And if you don't want to buy

into this culture, this isn't going to be the place for you. How do you feel as far as, you know, building trust with the, with the crew and immediately making the impact so that they know that you are there for them. And it's, it's all of us in this thing together. Yeah, that's funny. My first presentation with the NSCA at Tactical, I don't know, five or so years ago, I did a presentation on evolving the culture of military strength and conditioning and I called it Culture, Shock, and Awe.

And basically I told everyone in the audience, put down your pen and your paper after you write one word and that one word is trust and you know afterwards I had several people walk up to me with their notebook and it just had that word trust you know just to show me I guess that they were listening but all I really did was I relayed a lot of success and failures of coaches in the tactical setting over kind of the first, let's call it seven years of coaching in the military. And, you know, the one commonality between everything was, of course, that component of trust, you have to build trust. And there's a lot of different ways

to do that. So the biggest thing is, of course, to be absolutely genuine, true to yourself and true to them. And then also true to your craft. So like I talked to Johnny yesterday, for example, and he's kind of like, first thing is like, Hey, I didn't serve, you know? And, and I think that that is, is kind of a powerful way to start. Cause it's like, you recognize what you are, but you also recognize what you're not. Um, but to go back to the first part, you also got to recognize what you are and veterans absolutely, you know, over time anyway, will build trust with somebody who is good at their craft because they'll reckon, unique, I think anyway, in the military setting than in civilian populations is definitely that people will not just ask why, but they'll look up the answer you give to make sure that you're actually giving them the right answer. And so

if you don't know, just admit you don't know. But when you know something like be pretty unapologetically you and be like, hey, this is my craft. I know this stuff. Trust me. And they'll also respect that. So I think that, you know, there's no magic like formula and other than get genuine people involved, who truly care and care through their actions, not their words. And then, you know, make sure that those people stay true to who they are along the path. And I think as long as you do those, those two things, you're going to be okay. It's all about people. To backtrack a touch, there was a, somewhere I worked where there was like a sponsorship opportunity or something along

those lines. And somebody said like, well, the product's good and the people aren't. but you know, as long as the product's good, that's what matters. And I was like, holy shit. Like, what did I just hear? Because I'll take a shit product any day with the right people behind it, um, versus the opposite of that. And so, you know, I think with regard to fit ops, the one thing that I was exposed to right away is the quality of the people involved, both those that actually work for the organization, those that attend the camp, those like yourself that are helping promote it and be involved in other ways and bring more good people to the camp. And that starts to build that kind of referent trust. And then of course, to not being afraid to, like you said,

like boot somebody day one, if they don't belong, of course course we don't want that to be the case but if that's what it takes you you can't sacrifice the community for one person um that was actually the message that i remember the most overhearing johnny and matt you know talking about it and and their communications with us of what was going on because you can clearly see there's some like stress and they're worrying about specific people of, we can't have people here that aren't a hundred percent committed to it. And that was the thing that struck me the most. I mean, to say that I got, it was almost like I got beat down. I got like jumped into the brutal honesty of the,

of the reality of these people's lives and their stories. And if you aren't fully committed to learning and being a part of it, they're either going to beat it out of you because everyone there is so brutally honest and committed to fit ops, or you're going to leave because it's too much for you to handle. And I, we came in with microphones thinking, Oh,

we're just going to interview these people. By the time I stood in front of everybody to give my talk, it had just been beaten out of me that I have to, it was, it was like a full release. Like the, the, what's the little pad that they give you to go stand on in the middle of the room. And I just broke down because the, the reality of everybody's stories and the honesty that comes out of that crew and it starts with Matt all the way down to Johnny and and

everyone Harrison all of those stories were just so powerful and the why behind everything that's going on there was just it's impossible not to get sucked in and just want to be there and want to help and want to be a part of it by the the way, if someone's hearing you say all this right now, like we're talking about fit ops because it's like the greatest thing ever for veterans that have had some traumatic past either in the military and or before the military and they have potentially having suicidal thoughts, suicidal ideation, et cetera. If a person just wants to have the support of other people who understand what they're going through, et cetera, but they don't actually really want to be in the fitness industry or have or be coached to be a personal trainer or whatever it is, are they still welcome in FitOps or do they have to be going through the fitness track as well?

Well, I know that we would prefer the fitness track, but kind of like I talked about earlier, I think we know there's going to be different levels of commitment to that, you know, especially long term. You know, one thing Johnny's doing is in advance of camp already providing a lot of resources that are going to help them. So whether or not they even attend camp, that's because that's another thing I was actually going to bring up is just because someone leaves camp doesn't necessarily they leave our mean they leave our reach, right. And so we still want to make sure that we're trying to provide them with whatever resources they need to be successful you know in their endeavor even if say the camp isn't for them or even if the fitness industry isn't for them so it's sort of like if you got a pool of 100 and you can only take one you want to take the one that's the most committed but same token we also want to we want to take as many as we can possibly help and we

know we can help them in a lot more ways than just certifying them as personal trainers. So certainly we are not looking to turn anybody away because the ultimate goal of the organization is not creating personal trainers. It's providing purpose to eradicate veteran suicide, and that doesn't always come with a personal training certification. We can do that a lot of different ways. Do you have any firsthand experience either with yourself or working with people with PTSD? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'll give a short answer. Not that you have to give like the entire thing. I mean, it'd be awesome. But just in having like some firsthand experience and knowing kind of like, just a piece of what you're walking into.

Yeah, no, absolutely. It's something that I've seen firsthand. I've actually coached operators who have committed suicide. You know, I've had my own struggles and successes over the years and, and, you know, have my own community also that helps in that way. And a large part of that are veterans, a large part of that are coaches. And to be, you know, helping create a community that's both veterans and coaches, with all those considerations in mind is just an incredible opportunity and definitely something I'm intimately familiar with. Yeah. As far as building out a program and say, you know, test number one is January's courses, how long does that process take before and in iterations and kind of testing each step along

the way before you roll it out? Or is that going to be live and on the fly? And we're just gonna, we're gonna be adjusting as we go to, to dial it in. So something we're working on now is sort of a, Hey, what's the interim strategy while we build up the ideal. So obviously there's a little bit of building a plane in flight, but at the same time, they, you know, they have run 10 camps and done so successfully. So while we are looking to make some major upgrades, I can't pretend that those upgrades are going keep in the meantime? And then how do we phase that out? That was a lot of day zero. So a lot of yesterday's discussion, you know, and a big part of it for me is, even though I'm working on the curriculum, a lot of those components involve everybody in the organization in different ways. And so it's not just like, Hey, I've made this great exercise

science course. There's a lot, a lot more to it. And so I want to make sure that everybody has their input and that it's something that satisfies everyone's expectations to make sure that we're successful from the pre-camp, during camp, post-camp, all the components of, you know, fit ops. So in terms of, you know, timeline, a little bit to be determined. But we're just going to take, you know, one step at a time, progress is progress. I am, I am impatient, and I am terrible about sharing something that isn't complete. But I realized that those are two things I'm just going to have to get over. And we will, you know, we'll, I don't want to say settle, but we will be happy with taking small steps along the way until we ultimately

get it where we want it to be, which quite frankly, we're never going to get it where we want to be. Cause we're just going to keep elevating it. Are you guys looking in the future, 2021, 2022, of going down the actual accreditation, um, route and what is the ASNI that does accreditation? I'm sure there's a bunch of different bodies. Um, is that something you guys are looking into?

There's a, you know, there's a few different bodies. I am probably more along the lines typically of there's already like 30 personal training certifications out there. You know, certainly to create something that truly competes with like a CSCS, you know, I know we have like CSCCA, but in terms of scale, it's still nowhere close to it. So, you know, do I think we could do it? Absolutely. Is it something that I am seeing as a priority? I honestly do not. I think the best thing we can do a certification is just that, right? It's kind of like that badge that gets you in the door, but it doesn't actually say that like, Hey, once I'm in the door to this club,

I can throw down some serious moves on the dance floor. So, you know, instead, I think what we want to focus on is like the dance moves. Let's get these guys actually able to be good coaches rather than necessarily create our own certification. So it's certainly not off the table. But in the same breath, it's not a priority. The priority is giving them skills that are really going to translate to them being successful. And if we see a place to kind of like take that curriculum and get it accredited, then certainly we can look to do that, but it's not the priority. Yeah. I feel like that whole process turns into a legal thing more than a, uh, a practical necessity for, for you don't really, you could just go learn on YouTube the best way to get someone to squat. You don't have to go through that whole accreditation process.

It just seems like a lot. Man, when are you going to be back down in Arkansas? Hopefully soon. I don't have a date yet. I will certainly be there at the next camp that goes. How's next Tuesday sound? Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

Let me just tell Mr. Hesse to put you on the same flight he's on and come down and hang out with us. All right. We're going mountain biking. We're going to do shows. We're going to go check out the new camp. I'm so excited.

Let's do this. That's why it's the best thing. I said all of our friends down there that we have now because of fit ops they keep saying we have to go mountain biking so we're gonna go mountain biking on tuesday perfect that's how i spent my my week of vacation between jobs was uh mountain biking in tucson there it is um where can people find you fit ops uh just more information on everything that you guys are building down there yeah fitops.org is going to be absolutely your best uh one-stop shop for all things fit ops um people are certainly welcome to to email me directly and palin at fitops.org

um we are not that difficult to get a hold of. Of course, you can find us on all the social medias and all that good stuff. But, you know, I would just say this. If you're at all interested in, you know, being a part of this fight to end veteran suicide, we certainly have opportunities for you. So stop by the site, take a look, see what we're all about and see if there isn't a way that you way that you can help, particularly if you're somebody in the human performance setting. Yeah. And as far as fundraising goes, is there places on the site? I haven't been to the site in a little while. Are there places for people to be able to donate, run fundraisers, and actually be a part of it? I believe so. I couldn't tell you exactly, but I'd say stop by and see. And of course there's points of contact on there. So if the answer isn't there directly, just reach out

and we'll certainly let you know. That guy on the front, Mr. Cena, he's good at fundraising. I know. Yeah, just slightly. He knows people. One or two. Speaking of which, I don't know if he listens to this podcast, but I believe I've seen him rap. What's that? He better. All right. So I believe I've seen him rap a time or two, so him and I got a battle coming.

Oh, yeah. Your time is up. His time is now. You can't see me. My time is now. The most embarrassing, he was – him and I trained together for a while. And the only time I was genuinely embarrassed having the gym, we had a playlist and he was on it.

And he walked in, he was tying his shoes, getting ready to train. And his WWE intro song came on and he looked at me and he goes really and i was like i i'm gonna run as fast as i can over and cut this off just oh man and then harrison told me that the first time he came down to camp he got out of the car and harrison cranked the wwe intro it's, your time is up. My time is now. And Hesse looked at it and was like, no, no. Get it off.

Oh, man. I was like, dude, I know that feeling. It just comes on like he's about to kick his shirt off or something. He goes sprint into the ring. Ah, so funny. Doug Larson, where can they find you? You bet. Nate, thanks for coming on the show. I really enjoyed hearing about everything that you're up to. I'm looking forward to

hanging out in person one of these days. You can find me on Instagram at DouglasyLarson. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrug. Barbell underscore shrug. For everybody in San Diego, LA, and Vegas, get into Walmart. Performance, nutrition, three programs for fat loss, cardio, and building muscle on the shelves at Walmart.

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