Barbell Shrugged - Building a Transformative Mindset w/ Dr. Kasey Jo Orvidas, Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #623

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

Kasey holds a Ph.D. in Psychology and is a certified health and fitness coach, her expertise is in mindset and health behavior change. She has transformed hundreds of lives (and minds) in her coaching career, while also being published in multiple peer-reviewed scientific journals for her research exploring the relationship between our mindset and our health and fitness behaviors. Kasey places a strong emphasis on the importance of not just what we say to our clients, but how – and uses her unique background to efficiently and effectively communicate with clients to help them create sustainable lifestyle changes. She teaches other coaches how to do this too, via the Health Mindset Coaching Certification and other mentorship opportunities. In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged: Why so many people sabotage their results before even getting started Developing a growth mindset for long term results Why a positive mindset can help you overcome obstacles The foundation of a growth mindset Why transformations start with building a growth mindset   Connect with our guests:   Dr. Kasey Jo Orvidas on Instagram   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

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code shrugged to save 10 shrugged family some very cool news coming out of walmart you didn't expect to hear that i bet uh hs male protein was selected as one of the very few products in the entire performance nutrition category. So the entire shelf with all of the supplements, ageless male protein, the zone, the pump, and the shred were chosen to have rollback pricing to begin the new year. What that means is Walmart pretty much never does sales, but they do these things called rollbacks and they select a very, very few products in each category. Pretty much the ones that they think are going to absolutely crush in the new year and the hot time. And they chose us, which is super, super cool. So 2,200 stores, Walmart nationwide, the Walmart near me, I don't

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He's probably getting 19-year-olds world-class strong. Today on the show, we're going to be talking about the mindset of transformation. We are joined by Casey Orvitas, and you have a PhD in the mindset of transformation. You have to be like kind of a meathead. You have to be kind of into academia. How did you get into the mindset of transformation? It's like one of the PhDs you feel like you don't know you can do until you meet someone that's gone and done it. There you go. There you go. Yeah. So truly on my diploma, it says I have a PhD in psychology because I do. So ultimately at the end of the day, it boils down to psychology. But what I spent my PhD researching was mindset for health behavior change. So transformation, there we go. So it's easier enough to just say, yeah, my PhD is in mindset because that's what I spent my entire PhD career actually focusing on. Although the

overarching like theme is psychology. So getting into this space, I it's interesting because I was not aware that mindset was a science. I think a lot of people aren't aware. I was that person who didn't understand that, you know, mindset was very different from like manifestation or, you know, positive thinking and things like that. I was more so interested in answering the question, like, how do we get more people to exercise and take care of themselves and realize like how powerful and strong they can be? Because clearly, knowledge on the fact that these things are beneficial is not enough to actually get people to do it. So there was some sort of like psychological component behind it. So I went to grad school trying to essentially answer that question and fell upon the mindset lab at NC State. They were doing a lot of different research

in a lot of different areas, including things like entrepreneurship, relationships, and things like obesity and behavior change. So I was very much so interested in the obesity side of things, or more or less just like health and fitness behaviors. So that's what I kind of like spearheaded in that lab during my PhD. And that's I kind of like fell into it was like, I don't really know about this mindset stuff. But it looks like it's super powerful. And it really helps people make the best decisions for themselves and be successful. So maybe this will answer my question, at least to some degree. So yeah, that's how I kind of came into the mindset world. How much of it is really just you trying to convince people or maybe that's not the right

word, you can correct me on that, to get people to take on new healthy habits versus and or thinking about themselves as being a different kind of person. If someone's never been an athlete before, and they're wanting to get into work now, you're getting them to think about themselves as I am an athlete, they take on the identity versus versus just, I'm going to make some changes, I'm going to eat breakfast, I'm going to drink water, whatever it is. Yeah, that's a really good question. And it works really well. And what we know about mindset. So for instance, I actually have a published paper of my own. So this is some of my own research on exercise frequency and mindset. And what we learned in that study was that having a

growth mindset, so believing that you can change, that you can become a more fit individual, that you can, you know, increase your exercise skills, your capabilities, that sort of thing. So believing that having a growth mindset about fitness actually can lead to an increased identity around being like an exerciser or like a fit person. And that in turn is what leads to more frequent exercise. So I'm not sure at this moment in time, if there's research that kind of like shows the other direction to that, like identifying yourself as an exerciser leads to a stronger growth mindset, although I would believe and assume that it would. So those things are very much so intertwined. There's actually an entire theory that encompasses this idea. It's called the

expectancy value theory. And it's something that's been very, very long standing in kind of determining how people get motivated to do something. So I think it makes sense at face value, right? Like if you like totally identify as something like you super value it because of that, like who you are is part of this thing, like you're going to be more likely to do it. And if you have some sort of like positive expectation around what you're doing, you're also going to be more likely to do it. And having a growth mindset happens to increase all of those lovely things that leads to more success and increased behavior change over time. How do we start to get people to value health and wellness more? Like one, that's like probably like a global question. It's definitely like a national problem that we have, but

on an individual level, like there's social capital that goes into specific things, right? Like if you hang out with a lot of people that brew beer in their garage, your ability to brew beer now is like the social capital, like that guy's the best at what he does in his garage. Yet it leads you to a path where you have to drink every single night and get really good at being unhealthy. How do we get people to start to conceptualize health and wellness and build social capital around that so that they want to become like a leader, whether it's in their household, around their friends and start to like for all of us, it's kind of simple because we're only surrounded by fitness people or we're only surrounded by people trying to excel at this skill of being healthy and being strong, but so many people really don't have that social system built in where if you were to step outside of that social structure, they go, well, he's just like the healthy guy now and we don't drink beer with him anymore. So we don't really even, we're not even friends. We don't even share the same core values. Yeah, totally. There's

a lot of different directions we could go with that. I think obviously using maybe, yeah, like us as an example, it's like, oh, who do you surround yourself with and how does that make an impact in your like health and fitness? And yes, it is. It's because it's kind of embedded in our social fabric that it makes it like, quote unquote, easy for us to do. So thinking about that as an example, for those of you who are listening, you're like, yeah, like all of my guy friends, you know, they just want to drink beer all the time. And if that's what is like required to be part of that social circle, and it's something that I'm trying to do less of, like that makes it very difficult to still have friends and still feel like I'm included and I belong, which are some like very basic psychological needs that we have is feel like we belong to

like some sort of tribe. So with that said, I think obviously maybe chat with the guy who's at the gym with you or, you know, try to make friends who are in that space. You know, social media has actually been awesome for me in order to do that. All of my closest friends, especially within like the health and fitness world came from Instagram at this point. No way. Really? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So on the outside of the toxicity of the world. I know, using Instagram for good. Gosh, how dare you not just sit there and hit the explore button, wish you could be other places and look different. Exactly, exactly. So you can see the tools that are used.

You see that? I just got douged so good, we almost had coffee spit up all over the computer screen. That was way too accurate. I tell Anders all the time, I think the primary emotion that drives Instagram is envy. And like, he basically just laid that out the way he said that. Yeah, that's totally fair. Oh my gosh. That could be like a whole podcast episode in and of itself

is like social media impacts. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But yeah, for sure. I mean, those people are out there, you know, and I think a lot of that when I was really starting to get into health and fitness myself, like prior to having a business prior to having a PhD, all of this stuff, just getting into it for myself. I felt that I felt all of the people around me being that like, okay, they're the binge drinkers in college, you know, Thursday through Sunday. And I didn't want to do that anymore. I didn't want to feel that way anymore. I wanted to take care of myself and put my body first, all those raising my hand if you can't see it on your podcast app right now. Yeah. Me too. But so I became the black sheep and I totally get that. So when I finished my undergraduate degree and I knew I'd be moving to North Carolina and like

essentially having an opportunity to find my people who are like me, I took full advantage of that. And I mean, I did use Instagram. I was like, okay, these people are at these gyms, maybe I'll reach out with them know that I'm moving. I mean, I was very proactive. I was like, I know those people exist, because I do scroll through my explore page, and I see them all of the time. So it's just a matter of finding them. And I'm moving to a new city. So like, what better time to do that. So I did that and then continue to kind of make connections through like the business realm too, especially now owning a health and fitness business. It makes it a little bit easier to find people who are also in that space. But yeah, so I leveraged that a lot.

And to be honest, it just like, it makes your life easier. Like people talk about self-control all of the time. The reality is like, you don't necessarily need more self-control. You just need an environment that doesn't require as much self-control. It doesn't like make you need to exert self-control all of the time. So yeah, social circles are a big one. And I know it can feel weird to be like, oh, I don't want to divorce my friends or no new friends type of feelings, especially if you've had the same friend group for decades potentially. But the flip side of that too is like, have you ever actually sat down

and had a conversation with those friends? The number of times I have chatted with clients of ours around this kind of idea of, you know, my friends, my family, they're always getting in the way. They're always pushing me to drink more and eat more and do all these things. And I say, you know, well, have you actually talked to them about your health and fitness goals? Well, I mean, they know I go to the gym. Do they know you're working with a coach? I think I've maybe mentioned it before. It's like, okay, well, let's start there. Maybe like having a legitimate conversation, especially if these people have been in your life forever, and they're there to support you, like they're going to listen to what your goals are. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if they change, but if they're at least a little

bit more supportive in your changing, like that's what really is going to be helpful to you too. So like don't forget like the power of just like basic communication and like sharing your goals with your people. And if they're really your people, then they'll like support you. I'd actually like to send you something that we send to our clients. We give them a template to send to the most important people in their life for the people that joined the Diesel dad mentorship. And it basically just says like, I joined this program. I'm doing, I'm doing it for these reasons. It's really, really important to me because I'd like, I'd like to stay on track. You can help me stay on track by doing X, Y, and Z. Um, you know, please support me in this. It's really important to me. You're important person in my life.

I care about you. You care about me. Thank you so much. And then go have the conversation after you've like laid out this like very comprehensive, um, um, letter to them that, that tells them exactly why you're doing what you're doing. Oh my God. I love that you guys do that. I'm like, why don't I do that? For anybody? I think in, uh, in Doug and I both owned gyms for, uh, like five, six, seven years. And, um, I don't even know. It seems so long ago now. Um, and in a real life, like example of that, the number of people that would join my CrossFit gym and they would be out of shape and not really know how to get in shape. And then they would start to get in shape and then they would start to really prioritize being in shape. And then all of their friends would change. And the next thing, you know, they had like a new girlfriend or a new boyfriend. And then next, like their entire life

just disappeared of the person they were. And it happens in like six months because they have nothing in common. Once you start to get the ball rolling, it's just that, that initial step of getting the ball rolling, I think is so hard. And I think I'd love to hear your opinion on like kind of the idea of just being stuck where you're at. That's so much of who we deal with, especially getting just people over the edge of committing to a program of like, they feel stuck. They feel negative about their current space. They're living in this world of scarcity of like, I just can't do anything. There's just no time, no energy, no space, no anything to move forward. How do we get them to open up to just see that, hey, it's just these little steps because in six months, you're going to be radically different, but we just need you to commit to

step one. Yeah, absolutely. Fixed mindset can get in the way of getting more customers for sure. So it's hard to get them to see themselves six months down the road. Like it's a challenging thing to go, well, you've been living 30 pounds overweight for the last five years. Why is tomorrow different? We just kind of have to start to believe it is, but is there a process that we can, that helps kind of open people's eyes to that? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So when it comes to this is like very, very basics of like fixed mindset. So when I did research on mindset, and like what I know a lot about, you can talk about mindset from like the basic definition of it just being like the lens

that you take to kind of like see the world through and make sense of things and assign meaning to things. And then breaking that down further, okay, it's now we have growth mindset, and we have fixed mindset. And that basic definition is essentially like, do you believe that you can change, improve, like develop new skills, like do things differently. So if you don't feel like you can, or if there's just like that nagging thing in the back of your head, you're going to sign up for like the Diesel Dad mentorship, and you're like, but nothing has worked for me in the past. You know, am I just going to be like wasting my time and my money again?

Like I always start things and give up on them. So like maybe I won't. And then they're like gone for a little bit again. And then maybe they come back again. So that is very much like fixed mindset oriented thinking. And sometimes it's not super clear either. Like I'm making a very like clear example of thoughts that might be going on, but it could be something like we were talking about Instagram, right? You're scrolling through the explore page and seeing other people who have been successful. They are like lean and shredded

in the way that you want to be. They seem like they really got their shit together. And you think to yourself, like they must just have something that I don't have, or they got lucky or, you know, I could never be that type of person. And you just like keep scrolling, like those are that's indicative of a fixed mindset, too. Because having a growth mindset in those situations, you would see it as like, okay, someone else was able to do it. Like, why can't I I wonder, like, how they were able to get there, like, maybe I should reach out to him and see if I can learn something from the way things that he has done in the past and see if I can apply it to my life. So with that said, I think all of like having these fixed mindset sort of thoughts can really hold you back. And the first, first, first thing is to become more aware of where that's

showing up in the first place. So you can begin to tackle them, but also recognize like, as far as like specific, tangible things that you can do with this actually have like a specific exercise you can work through that's actually based in cognitive behavioral therapy so it's essentially working through this process of like finding what that negative thought so finding that fixed mindset negative thought that is going through your head of like maybe it's as basic as like I just can never keep up with things you know know, I start things and I always, I always fall off the wagon or whatever it may be. So if that's your thought process, kind of going through this exercise, you can think to yourself, okay, well, what's the evidence that I actually have for this thought? Like, why am I having this thought in the first place? Like,

what evidence do I have? Like, you probably have some, otherwise you wouldn't be thinking it in the first place. So in this case, maybe it's like, oh, I've tried so many other programs in the past. I've done other diets. I've tried to do other things and none of them ever seem to work out. So like, that's the evidence for it. Like, okay, that's fair. But then what's the evidence against that thought? And then you can think to yourself like, okay, well, I've tried all these other things before and I wasn't necessarily successful, but I definitely still learned some stuff from it. I've gotten better at deciding, you know, what types of strategies are going to work for me. And just like because I wasn't super successful in the past doesn't always mean I'm going to be for sure a failure in the future. And working through that, a lot of times what people notice right away is that that evidence against is a much longer list than the evidence for. So then now kind of

working through like we have our weighing the evidence for and the evidence against, what is a more accurate depiction of this thought? And that might look like instead of like, I always fall off the wagon, I can never stick to things I start can be like, in the past, I've tried things that didn't work for me in my lifestyle, but that isn't necessarily indicative that this program is going to do the same thing. And I will never know unless I try. So that like, okay, that feels so much better, doesn't it? Like I feel so much better just working through that example. So noticing how it makes you feel too is super important. You keep saying in those examples, words that when I hear them, it's like nails on chalkboard. It's like, I always do X or I never accomplish Y. And as soon as someone says that, the shit talker in me just

wants to go always? Like how always? Like 99% of the time, because there's 1% left over, we should really define what always and never really mean. And you know what? That gets me in my household in a lot of trouble. But when we're working with our – like how much does language play a role into these things? Because if you sit there and you go, I always fall off the wagon. Well, I'm pretty sure I could find a few things that you've actually been able to change and be consistent with. And we just have to change the framework to the way that you view eating or, and align those things. How much does language and self-talk play into this? So much. And I love that you picked up on that because that is something that I share with people all of the time. And they're like,

okay, I almost like cut you off because I hate those words so much. Like, please don't bring that. Please don't bring that in here. We are going to attack you for that. It is absolutely purposeful because that's an example of what I use when I'm like explaining to people, okay, you want to shift your mindset. Like you need to figure out where the fixed mindset thoughts are coming from in the first place. And that's a really easy way to just start to pay attention to like those specific words, like always, never, like, I just can't, you know, things like that. Those types of words, like nails on the chalkboard type of words, like you, that's where you go like, okay, there's my fixed mindset. How do I start to reframe this differently? So absolutely. Something I say all of the time is that it's not always what we're saying. It's how we're saying it.

And I said, I mean, I have an entire certification for health and fitness coaches, health and fitness professionals, rather, that people go through. And a massive chunk of that certification is just talking about like how we communicate these things to our clients, because that matters so much. And absolutely, same thing goes for like how we speak to ourselves. And if we're caught, you're constantly running this, like like play by play in your head of like, I always do this. I can't do this. You know, I never am able to do this. Like those types of things, it will show up in your life. Like what comes into your mind

will come into your life essentially. Yeah. Cause we always want to be bright. We always want to know that we, it's like the self-fulfilling prophecy of, I always fall off the wagon. Well, nobody wants to be wrong. So you make sure that you, it's like the self-fulfilling prophecy of, I always fall off the wagon. Well, nobody wants to be wrong. So you make sure that you do it the next time. Exactly. Rewriting that tape is really hard though. How do we do it? You just start truly. It's one of those things where that's what people ask, like, okay, well, how do I do it then? How do I do it? It's like, okay, first identify where it's showing up in

your life. Like what's triggering you, you know, become more aware, I'm sure you guys talk about self awareness all of the time, like becoming more aware of that, and where it's showing up in your life. And then once you can do that, like you have to like you can, you absolutely can. I mean, neuroplasticity is a thing, right? Like our brains are constantly changing all the time, based on the information we're taking in and the information we're putting out and the things that we're doing and experiencing and the conversations we're having. So when this stuff comes up, if you can catch yourself, like that's already, you're already like light years ahead of a lot of people. So if you can catch yourself having those thoughts or like doing those things, then actively in the

moment thinking like, okay, what would be essentially like the growth mindset oriented response instead? So instead of like, I always do this, like, here I go again. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, just because it's happened before doesn't mean it needs to go the same trajectory again. Like, what can you do differently this time? You can catch yourself like that's amazing. And just like start to do that. You're not gonna be able to do it every time. You're not gonna be successful every time. You're not gonna believe yourself every time for sure. But the more often you do it, just like the more often you were doing that previous tape in your head all of the time, the easier it's going to get. And the more often you do it, just like the more often you were doing that previous tape in

your head all of the time, the easier it's going to get. And the more just like salient it will be in your brain. And the more likely you are to like go that direction first without having to like take a true like deliberate pause to reframe. Yeah. I always felt like Carol Dweck kind of rebranded the whole nature nurture thing with fixing growth mindsets where it doesn't really have to be all one or all the other, like no matter who you are in any category like you are who you are your genetics are just what they are you can't you can't necessarily change them or at least not to any any appreciable immediate degree like if you are a person who just naturally can I could just always bench press 300 pounds from, from 13 years old, you're in the 95th percentile

for strength. Well, you're just that guy. And if you, you train really hard, maybe you can get to world championship level. But if you're the guy that just like you, you can always only bench press, you know, half your body weight and you train really, really hard. Now you can bench press like one and a half times your body weight. Cause you started in the 20th percentile. Like in both cases, you have a starting point and you have a range you can get to depending on your behaviors i kind of feel like the fixed growth mindset is like that too like like no matter who you are like you're going to have some set point and then depending on how you choose to go about your life you can you can improve or regress right absolutely and carol deweck is she is actually a

co-worker of my phd advisor So I'm basically everything like her philosophies and strategies are exactly what I was taught. So love her. I'd love that you brought her up. And that's where that, yeah, the fixed versus growth mindset, that's all Carol Dewex kind of work. And she put that into place. But with that said, yeah, absolutely. I mean, every single extremely talented or extremely successful, be it like an athlete or a business person, whatever, like sure, they may have been quote unquote like born with some of that stuff that makes them so successful and so talented today. But if they would have just left it at that and not put tons of effort and time and found

resources and people in order to get there, like that talent or like inbred like success was not going to show up the way that it did. So thinking about it from that way, it's like, sure, they may have like a little bit of a leg up. But that doesn't mean that they didn't have to be extremely dedicated and still find like the resources and strategies and things that work for them and their lifestyle. So I think keeping that in mind can be really helpful just for everyone, because we can it's so easy to get caught up in like, oh, well those people, I didn't have to put as much work in, or they were just like, they were set up for success from like day one. It's like, okay, not really though, because there's so much more that goes into that. Yeah. Do you know who Mark England is? We should, we should introduce you to our friend marking he runs a company a language coaching

company called procabulary and uh like as an example he has a product called the core language upgrade and there's there's a couple of rules basically that this that this program follows and one of them very simply is just to always frame things in a positive way talk about what you want what you do like why things are going well etc etc like people that if that's your self-talk and your external talk with other people in conversation, you're always talking about what you like and what's going well and where you want to go in the future and why it's a good thing. And even if you have negative thoughts, you just, you don't voice them or you reframe how you say them. Instead of saying like, I don't like how you do that. You say, oh, you know, I would prefer that you do it this way. And that goes a long way. Andrew's just talking about getting in trouble at his house. You know what I mean? Like if you, if you

go to your wife and you're always talking about how she's doing things wrong and how what you don't like, et cetera, like you're in a fight immediately. But if you're saying, Hey, I have a preference. I think this could, this could be done in a better way that I I'd like it. If this happened, then they're like, okay, I'll listen. Cause I'm not being blamed, shamed or accused of something, et cetera. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, the difference in how you present something, whether it can come up as, here's the thing, there are people who will feel like they're always being attacked, no matter what. And a lot of times that does also stem from having a fixed mindset, because you feel like personally, there's something wrong with you versus something wrong

with like your methods or your strategies. But how you present that information a lot of times, like leading with like how you feel, right? When you said that it made me feel this way. So coming from that place versus like you did something incorrectly can make all the difference for sure. I imagine you being a female, many females are attracted to working with you. And when you start to get into like more of the disordered behaviors whether it's like orthorexia uh anorexia bulimia um when when you're dealing with kind of like some more serious the more serious side of this transformation getting people from like a very unhealthy state and a very um it's like a challenged capacity to really move out of something that is very dangerous. Are there additional steps you take with people?

Like we work with dads that kind of like need to just have some accountability to align their goals and their lifestyle along with, and work with somebody that understands kind of what they're going through. I would imagine when you start to get into some more like clinical, like disordered places, that the complexity gets very difficult to deal with when you're dealing with those things. Is that, am I right in that? Yeah, absolutely. To the point where it's still like, I mean, it's out of my focus and out of my scope for sure. So the, because we talk about like psychology and mindset so much on like, so my business is sort of half and half. I know I had mentioned the, um, health and fitness professional certification that I do. I also still do some one-on-one

coaching and have a team who helps me with that. So that's more of like gen pop and exactly the type of women that you're talking about that might come to us. So because we speak to mindset and psychology, and that's really kind of like our unique pillar, I asked, you know, well, why are you interested in working with us? It's like, oh, because you guys care about the mind and the body and the connections and mindset and all these things. The issue with that is a lot of times we do have folks come to us and say like, Oh, well, you know, I suffer from bulimia, or I also just recovered from an eating disorder. And that becomes difficult because I'm a psychologist, but I'm not that type of psychologist. So I'm not a clinical psychologist. And I can't necessarily like help those people with those things. And especially like the other

coaches on my team, like they don't even have the level of education that I do in psychology either. So unfortunately, a lot of times in those cases, and it's not, it's not frequently that we do end up with these people coming through our applications. But a lot of times it is folks who like, oh, I had an eating disorder, you know, five or six years ago, I feel fully recovered. But like, I still deal with negative thoughts every once in a while, which like, hello, who doesn't, right? Like, that's pretty freaking normal. So with those folks, absolutely, we can still help them work through things. It is it does become just a lot more work on the mindset side of things and like reframing thought processes, discovering like core beliefs and working through some of that stuff and awareness versus like,

here are your macros. And here's your training plan, like see you next week, like there's a lot more in depth kind of like discussion and relationship and connection that needs to happen in order to really continue to work through those things. But otherwise, if someone does come through and they're like, I'm orthorexic, I'm like, I'm sorry that this is out of our scope of practice, but I can direct you to someone who can help you. Yeah. And it's not just females. We actually have, uh, male clients that have come through our program that deal with a lot of this. I think likely with you being female, somebody would kind of be attracted to that. There's not a lot of girls reaching out to me for eating disorder things. It's just, I'm not in their wheelhouse. Go ahead, Doug. Sorry, I just didn't want to pigeonhole all females into a hole there. I'm wondering if you have like a process or any advice on how to uncover your core beliefs.

Especially core limiting beliefs. Yeah, that's a really good question. I think a lot of times, especially like in a coaching relationship, it can kind of just like come about naturally as you ask like the right questions and ask the good questions to kind of get at it. But something that can be helpful is again, kind of like taking some of those like basic thoughts, whether they're positive or negative, and kind of like working your way down. So there's actually like a very basic technique that exists. And it's often like termed the five whys. So you essentially are asking yourself like, okay, again, so if we use that same negative thought from last time, like I can never finish what I started essentially,

like, okay, well, why do you think that? It's like, well, in the past, I haven't been able to do that. It's like, okay, well, why did it not work in the past? Oh, because, you know, it just, it didn't fit with my lifestyle. I don't think I was motivated enough. You know, I had too many distractions, like, okay, well, why was that? And if you kind of just kind of continue to work yourself down with essentially like five whys or sometimes even more, you might get to the final like core belief that maybe something along the lines of like, I just don't think I'm like good enough to do this. Or again, kind of going back to what we talked about at the beginning with value and identifying who we are. It's like, well, I just don't think that I could be that

person who can do those things. So identifying and like unraveling those core beliefs. And like, that was a very simple way to describe it. Sometimes it's a lot messier or uncomfortable or not as easy to figure out, like, where is this actually coming from? But if you can do that, it can hit you like a freight train and you're like, oh my God, wow, this is what I really think about myself deep down. And then being able to understand that can like unlock like an entire new world for you moving forward and thinking like, okay, do, am I not signing up for the Diesel Dad program because I just don't think that I can be like those guys who do it? Like, is that what, like, is that really what's holding me back?

And then maybe that person can have a conversation with one of you guys or someone else who's gone through the mentorship and like actually be able to chat and be like, okay, well, this is how I'm feeling. Assuming right, that someone is willing to like open up in that way and become self aware enough to begin with to uncover some of those things. How do you start to kind of break down the the ego piece of just asking for help one and then being willing to take other people's advice uh i'd like to say that i'm better at that now but also i know that when i was like 25 28 years old yeah right you want to try and tell me what to do i'm just going to ram my head into this wall as long as i can and try and break through like it's a there's a

there's a lot of growth that goes into it, but asking for help is a really challenging thing for people. Yeah, absolutely. And I, definitely not to be stereotypical on my front this time, but I do think for men, it's often a lot more difficult just because there's this, like, it is a stereotypical thing, right? That women are just like more open and honest and like kind of in their like feminine energy versus masculine energy, which is a little bit like, don't worry and like kind of in their like feminine energy versus masculine energy which is a little bit like don't worry like I got this like I don't need help like I can figure it out like feelings are whatever like I'll just push through it type of thing when in reality like wouldn't you rather have like the fast track wouldn't you rather like the most

efficient and effective route which is being open and honest and like sharing these things and figuring out like what's going on deep down. So you don't continue to sign up for thing after thing and then not pan out. Like, do you want to keep doing that? Do you want to keep wasting time, energy, money, all of these things? Or would you rather just like actually get to the core of the issue, work through it with someone or maybe multiple people and with yourself. So the next time you sign up for something, you can actually fucking do it. Yeah. I struggle, me personally, I would say, sure, I still struggle asking for help in some places,

but there's a real characteristic that I notice in the clients that actually get in and succeed on the program of almost like letting go. And I think that's something that's super cool about really good coaching programs. It's like when you get in there, you just go, maybe I know nothing. It's hard to admit that you may not have the skills to actually advance at the speed that you want to and somebody else may have the answers. In your kind of coaching program, whether it's with other coaches, have you noticed that being like a consistent trait of the people that do really well in your programs? And is there like a process of that self-development or personal development that people can kind

of go through to make that easier? Ooh, that is so good. And you know what? Surprisingly, I don't spend a lot of time thinking like, what makes like the most successful people successful? And whether that is like our one-on-one clients or coaches that go through my certification program, but it actually rings very true what you're saying based on a specific example that literally happened yesterday. So I had a coach reach out who I just just opened or closed rather the

enrollment for my certification for the fall. So we just got started at our first call this week. And she went to the introductory call. So it's essentially like, Hey, this is how things are going to happen. Ask some of your basic questions and sent me and my team an email saying like, is there like a more advanced option for this program? Because I feel like I already know all of this stuff. And we're looking at each other like it's week one. You haven't seen anything else yet. We only went through the introductory week, but it's like this idea that you already have all of the information after already signing up for this massive program that will get in the way of you actually getting stuff

out of the program. So part of me is almost like, let's just refund her now because like, she's already in this place of I'm better than this. Right. So going into opportunities like that, especially when you, you really don't know all of the content yet or everything that is going to be presented to you coming from a place of almost trying to force yourself to be a little bit more naive, even if you're like, oh, we'll see. I may not be impressed by this. It's like, but there's always going to be something you can learn. I still feel that way about like mindset and behavior change.

Like I'm still reading books that are like how to change. Like I literally have a book sitting over here that's called that. So even though I have a PhD in this area. So that's a really big part of being growth minded and seeing success is thinking like, there's always more for me to absorb and learn. And so I love that you've seen that. And it makes a lot of sense to me. Your, your example actually made me really think of like the, the ideal realistic expectations to like, I've, I've had clients kind of like email and like, I don't think the program's working for me. And then you look at their tracking sheets and you look at all this and they go, you're down like nine pounds in three

weeks. Like, what do you, what did you expect? Like that. And I feel like that's not even an objective view of what they're doing and the success they're having. It's kind of that mindset of like, nothing's going to work for me. I'm broken. I, there's no way this thing's working at the speed it's supposed to. I have to be either, I must be at the bottom of the list at all times. I find that to be like a, that has to be a mindset issue that it's kind of our responsibility to work to. And you know, once, once we bring those things to the surface and go, you're actually like in the top 5% of people that are succeeding in this program right now. Like you're absolutely crushing it. Like, why do you think that you're not succeeding? You typically don't get an email back.

Yeah, that's fair. The objective you, but you know, for us, like in seeing some things like that, how do we communicate better with the clients on how well they're doing? Because that, in seeing some things like that, how, how do we communicate better with the clients on how well they're doing? Because that, it, in a way that's our responsibility of coaches to inform people of how well they're doing. And we sometimes take it for granted that they're going to look at it and be like, I'm smashing it. Like we're so proud and they're not, there's a miscommunication in between there that, and to, to just take responsibility for it, we should be doing. Yeah, definitely to just take responsibility for it, we

should be doing. Yeah, definitely. And this is, it's so funny. I feel like all of the topics you guys have brought up. I'm like, yep, just had this conversation or yep, we talked about this all the time. That's because humans are involved. Those damn humans, they all, they all have the things. Absolutely.

Yeah. I know expectation setting is, those words expectation setting, or it's something I say probably 9 billion times throughout the certification process for the coaches that go through it. It's something that we highlight, like very strongly, like in our intake forms for one on one coaching, you know, we run run the gamut of like, what are you expecting to get out of this program? What are you expecting from your coach? What can we expect from you as a client? So like laying that out, like first and foremost, before we even dive into the coaching program is so, so crucial because then in situations like that, when you're getting emails, like, um, I don't feel like I'm doing as well,

or should I be doing more? I don't know if this is working for me. You can refer back to that original intake form and say like, okay, well, this is what you're expecting to get out of it. You've already done all those things and more. So like, where's this coming from? You know, you can better identify that discrepancy with the client. And same just goes for in general, when it comes to like success of your programs, whether that's like one-on-one coaching or something else, like being able to make sure that expectation is laid out at the beginning number. I mean, hi, less like customer service emails, right? That's always good. But also like these people are like, know what they're getting into and you know what you can expect from

them and vice versa. So there's just a little bit less of like uncertainty around things. But at the same time, you're still going to absolutely run into high achievers who are like, okay, I've lost nine pounds in three weeks. Like, shouldn't I be doing more, you know, so sometimes absolutely, people just don't know. And we have to remember to that, like, people don't know what we know, otherwise, they would be doing what we're doing and not like purchasing from us in order to do those things. So keeping that in mind, too, that they just like truly are like, I saw some other people in the forum say that they lost, you know, 10 pounds in the first two weeks. I'm only on nine pounds in three weeks. Like, what am I doing wrong? It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like you're still,

like you said, like top 5% of like where people are at. So like, so like a little bit of that. And something you had mentioned too, is like, how do we get people to realize themselves that they're being successful? Because like, truly that that's the secret sauce. Like, we don't want to have to be emailing people being like, I'm so proud of you. I see so much of your success. I can see like, what you're doing is so great. We want them to come to us being like, Oh my god, I'm so proud of myself. I can't believe I've done this. Like that is so much more powerful than hearing it from a coach all the time. So setting up expectations in that way and trying to guide people to coming to these solutions and realizations themselves, like that really is the special stuff. Yeah.

Do you guys do anything as far as quantifying subjective measures of how people feel about X, Y, or Z? Like in the DieselVap mentorship, every week when we have our call, we have a subjective rating scale of one to 10 about how people feel about their body, which like their, their appearance, their, their physical fitness, their, their strength, et cetera. And also their mindset, like level of motivation, hope, optimism, this will work for me, et cetera. That way, week over week over week, we can see that they went from a three to a three and a half to a four to a four and a half and et cetera. And then when they come back at week eight and they say, I don't, I don't think this program's working, which basically

never happens if they're at week eight. Uh, but they, we could come back and say, Oh, like, look, look at your graph of your subjective ratings of how you feel about your body. It's up and up and up. And same thing for your mindset. It's up and up and up. We have all the objective body fat percentage, body weight, et cetera, stuff. But then we also have the subjectives. Here's what you said. You, this is, this is how you said that you feel. Oh yeah. That's so good. I like want to do your program. Come on in. Come right. No, that's perfect.

And that's exactly how we actually set up things for one-on-one coaching too, is that we have, you know, the spreadsheet that houses the objective like quantitative data. And then we have the form that houses more of the subjective, more qualitative type of stuff. But we will still use scales for that very reason. So scale of one to five, one to six, one to seven, one to 10, that sort of thing. So right where you're at, because I think so many times we get so stuck in our thoughts in our heads, like they turn into like, they have babies of like gremlin thoughts. And it just turns into this, like, what am I even i even thinking about anymore when every week if you have a second to like sit down and reflect

on your past week and like how do i feel on this like how did this make me feel where am i at here like to actually give it a number and assign meaning to it you can see where your mindset's going to come out too so what's really great too is that we can do with those in addition julia looking back and be like wow i went from a three to a seven like that's actually pretty epic so never mind um it's nice to be able to see that because sometimes we are have such a strong negativity bias that we miss those positive changes um the other thing that you can do with it too is spend some time thinking like all right so if you guys do calls every week or something like that you're looking at this and like okay so Jim, you said you're a

six out of 10 on like your feelings of ability to do this. Like, what would it take to get you to a seven? You know, what would be required to get you to that next step? And then he can like run through maybe some ideas, some options together, like maybe other people have some ideas for him. And then maybe he'll for sure be a seven or an eight next time. You can also go the other direction. You can say like, okay, six is not freaking terrible. Like, why are you not like a five? You know, what was good enough to get you to a six instead of a five? And that's where you can like really like highlight some strengths and like focus on

some positive aspects of things as well instead of, because we don't always want to be in a place of like, how do we fix where you're currently at? Because like six isn't all that bad. You know, it could be a one, two, three, or four or five. So like trying to focus on that as well can be really, really helpful. Yeah, I always like that technique of especially if somebody has a particularly low number, if it's a three, you say, just as you just said, why not a one? Why not a zero? That way, that way they can talk themselves into why something is good versus focusing on why it's not a nine or a 10. And something is bad. You mentioned cognitive behavioral's not a nine or a 10 and something is bad.

You mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy earlier. I read a bunch of David Burns's books, Feeling Good, Feeling Great, and Feeling Good Together, all phenomenal books. A big part of those books are recognizing automatic negative thoughts and then countering with why those automatic negative thoughts aren't true. And in the Deezer Dot Mentorship, we used to do daily, but we switched it to weekly recently of just like, you know, the positive, why things are working. I mentioned Mark England and that whole thing earlier, why things are working and what's going well,

why you're proud of yourself, et cetera. And I've, I've, I've thought about asking for their automatic negative thoughts and then had them go through a process for countering their automatic negative thoughts. But I kind of don't want them even really, I don't want to focus on that and emphasize the negative thoughts. We don't, we don't have a whole lot of time to spend with each other in the first place, but I just want to get your thoughts on that. Like, should, should we just stick to the positive or you think that there's value in, in countering the automatic negative thoughts with, with our clients? What are your thoughts? Yeah. Yeah. That's such a good question. Um, cause I do think

sometimes there can be a level of like toxic positivity, right? Like where we're always just focusing on like, oh, don't worry about that. Let's just, you know, pretend they're not there. Like it can become a real issue and you're not necessarily going to continue to progress if you keep like running into these walls or again, going back to like some sort of some realm of like expectation. Like if you're not ready for the quote unquote, like bad stuff, like what are you going to do when it shows up? You know, this stuff is not linear, like sunshine and rainbows all of the time. Like there's going to be situations where, yeah, you go to a tailgate and people are like forcing you to drink more. Like the wings are like calling your name and things like that.

And it's like, okay, well, I'm just supposed to think about like the things I've done so far. Like that's not really going to help you so much in those situations. So I'm a really big fan of doing a little bit of work with the negative and trying to like, to some degree, like acceptance commitment therapy

is under kind of like the umbrella of CBT. And a lot of that just focuses on like accepting that some of this stuff is going to happen, accepting like where you're at right now without necessarily feeling guilty or like you're doing something wrong. Like that's just part of the process. And then it can make it a little bit easier for you to be like, all right, if this is what's going to happen, how do we tackle it? You know, how do we plan for this tailgate party that I'm going into? And there's like all of these like, things that are going to be pulling me in different directions and away from my goals, like spend some time beforehand, it's a lot easier, a lot easier to just be like, Oh, yeah, things will be fine, because I'm super driven. And I'm

excited about my goals. And I just signed up for this new program, like, that feels better than having to be like, okay, what happens, you know, when Mike is like tossing me another beer, and I'm super driven and I'm excited about my goals. And I just signed up for this new program. Like that feels better than having to be like, okay, what happens? You know, when Mike is like tossing me another beer and I'm trying to say no. And what's going to happen when like his wife brings out the, my favorite boneless wings and things like that. Like, what are you going to do in those situations? When all you're like, Oh, I just nailed the tailgate lifestyle. Right. Dang.

Like I like to hook it up with way it up with the wind. Way too many NC State games. I love that. Way too many tailgates. Exactly. So with that said, you're not going to be prepared, essentially, is the long story short here.

You're not going to be prepared for life's inevitable bad shit if you're always focusing on the sunshine and the rainbows. So there's definitely some true benefits to spending time with the negative. I think obviously we don't want to stay there all of the time and we do want to do our best to like reframe things. But if we don't prepare for like barriers and challenges and setbacks and

things of that nature, you're not going to be prepared. I also think when people join coaching programs, like ours is either 16 or 32 weeks. And when they commit to that 16 weeks, it's like they've paid for it. They're so committed. Everyone in their life is kind of like the biggest loser scenario. It's like they're all in. They get all the results.

And then it's over. They think they've healed themselves forever. And then like, man, now you got to go back to your real world and do it all by yourself without a coaching check in on Monday. And, you know, like the people on The Biggest Loser, it's like, well, now you got to go back to your neighborhood. That was kind of like this social place that didn't allow you to be healthy in the first place. How do we like, what is like the balancing act? And almost like the mindset of the balancing act that people need to have to understand like, this thing's forever. Like 16 weeks is like the bootcamp to get you to where you need to be. And then for the rest of time, you need to kind of live in this like 90-10 world where it's okay to screw up. But

so many, it's so easy to fall back into those habits. How do we create that ability and that structure so people can just not be all in or all out or fall back into the same things just because they did this super hardcore 16 or 32 week program? Yeah, that's like, that's one of the golden questions, right? You know, is how do we get people to make this a lifestyle change and not just like the 21 day fix this or the 30 day that and I know you guys have a much more comprehensive program that should help set them up for success, very much so following the 16 or 32 weeks. And I would hope that that's kind of what we do for our clients as well. But like, that's the appeal, right? It's like, oh, I only have to do this for a short period of time. And then it's like, okay, but then what happens after you finish the whole 30? You know, what are you gonna do?

You know, you go back to the tailgate and like, you're screwed. And those are like, because they're like, so strict. It's like, exactly. You can't keep that going forever. Right? Yeah. So for sure. The first thing to do is like, okay, if I'm going to sign up for some program, it needs to like fit my lifestyle, I don't need to be like fitting my lifestyle around it. Like that's for sure step one. So if you're going to try to find something to give you like that foundational piece, and like really get your get you going in the direction of changing your lifestyle for good, make sure you're signing up for something that you feel like is actually something you could potentially do long term, right? So that's the whole 30. Great. But for most people, it's not. So doing that first is definitely really important. I think focusing a lot on actual behavior change,

mindset, a lot of this, like the softer stuff is truly like what's going to help you long term, you'd like, like I said, at the beginning, like we all have the education that we're supposed to eat vegetables and like, lift, you know, we all know the education that we're supposed to eat vegetables and like lift you know we all know this but ultimately when it comes to our day-to-day lives and our lifestyle and we run into things like what do we do you know so getting to a place where again we talked about identity a lot like maybe where you feel like after 16 to 32 weeks you identify a little bit more as someone who does these behaviors and thinks this way and does these things like that's really crucial so So working towards that is important. Spending some time like thinking, what does your ideal self and your ideal life really look like and reverse engineering from there. And a lot of

times, yes, things like the Diesel Dad program can really help you start to do that. So when you finish, you get to a place of like, okay, keep that person in that lifestyle in mind, for sure. And then lastly, the thing I'll touch on too is I'd like to make the parallels to like recidivism. So people who are in prison, a lot of times they come out, right? Unless they're licenses, like people are there for a period of time and then they go right back into the same communities, the same neighborhoods, the same people, everything that got them there in the first place. So like, we have great like reentry programs, people can get their GEDs while they're in jail, they can do all of these things. But that's because they're in that environment. And they have that opportunity. But then you put them back in a place where they don't and they're back

in their previous environment. It's very hard to keep up with those things. So also, I love that you guys like have that letter to give to people in your life to say, like, I'm going through this program and things like that. I don't know if it says this, but it could like PS at the end of the 16 weeks, like I want to keep doing this stuff. Like letting people know that it's not like for you and for them. This is not a short term thing. I'd really like your support, like going forward is really important. And of course, just like basic like environmental, like how do you make it a little bit easier for you to get to the gym?

How do you make it a little bit easier to meal prep and eat healthy and do all of these things and set yourself up for success long term. And I love when things are like, a little bit longer than like 21 days, 30 days, things like that, like 16 to 32 weeks is a really solid like foundation to actually get started. But then also having those conversations as things come to a close like kind of like a um essentially like off-boarding thing like how do we get you to a place now do you feel comfortable doing this stuff on your own or like what does it what is what needs to change what needs to happen how does this need to look yeah i i also um kind of finding the way people learn i feel like

education although might not be like the sexiest term for for what people are doing but giving people in those in the programs as much information to like just arm them with the ability to do it um or to do it after they have the accountability each week like the number of people that still don't understand macros or the number of people that still don't understand that you don't have to train for 90 minutes a day to get good results or don't understand what their metabolism is. And in conversations, being able to be as just to simplify general concepts so that people have to know what it is and being able to repeat yourself, being able to meet their lives, um, you know, kind of like where they're at. Once you, once you've

learned it, you can't forget it. I think that that's like a really important piece. If someone walks into a 21 day program, they go, I'm just going to do exactly what's at this thing, but I, I'm probably not going to learn all of it. I'm just going to follow this macro structure and I'm going to be in a deficit for 21 days and look great. But you don't learn anything. It's kind of – it does not arm you with the tools that you need to be able to succeed over a long period of time. And I think that is our responsibility as coaches really is to like consistently lead through the education side of things. And I guess in your experience, do many people, can they speak? When you talk about growth mindsets, I feel like I'm like, yeah, I've heard that before. I'm glad I'm talking to somebody that really understands it. Now I can learn. But do people, when they come to you about,

do they have like a general understanding of what in your brain is like this basic concept of fixed and growth mindsets? No. It's so crazy to me, right? Like I feel like that's like, in 2021, I feel like that should be a basic concept to so many of us. But it's not. Yeah, no, for sure. For sure. So I do think what's been great, but also bad at the same time is that mindset, this

idea of mindset has become so popular in the last few years that like, it's hard to like come across like a health and fitness coach who doesn't have like, oh, I also happen to be a mindset coach, like in their bio, you know, on Instagram and things like that. So it's all over the place, which I love, because I think people are just understanding how important like what you think and like, what like impacts what you do. And, you know, why your mindset is important. But ultimately, like I kind of, I kind of mentioned at the beginning, it falls into this like very like woo-woo space. It's like mindset, manifestation, hashtag positive vibes, like all of these things.

And it becomes very much just like that. Hashtag positive vibes. I love it. I'm so in. We totally understand. We met each other in California, in SoCal. Have you been to North County, San Diego? That's like woo-woo capital.

I've been to San woo capital i love being there but it's it's a lot of that going around there's more life coaches at every single coffee shop than per capita than any other place on this planet i'm sure oh that's so funny so do you guys have like peace sign tattoos matching ones no we should get them we should if we still live there we'd be like a week and a half away from the peace sign matching tattoo. Yeah. You can't live there for over a decade without the matching tattoo. Exactly.

There you go. We'll put that on the docket to do before you die. If you have like your favorite yoga teacher, you've been there too long. It's time to go. Time to move on. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. But yeah, absolutely. So that's that kind of vibe

because all of those life coaches you've seen at those coffee shops are probably like, oh yeah, we're mindset coaches too. And I'm over here like, did you spend five years in the mindset lab? Of course you don't need a PhD to understand these concepts and help people.

What's been really great actually going through the certification and kind of promoting this, I've, I think, at this point, now we're over 300 coaches who have been registered for this certification, which is really cool. What I've noticed is like, so I'll see people like, oh, this person already calls him a mindset coach, and they're going through my program, like, let's see like what they actually know. And I have been pleasantly surprised, you know, like, oh, wow, actually, what you doing is evidence-based in some capacity, but like, also you should add this and like tweak it a little bit this way. And this is what you can do once your client responds to kind of like

keep the momentum going. So a lot of times people are doing things that truly do like work, but they don't understand the science well enough to apply it in a, with everybody, with all of their clients in different scenarios and situations, and they don't know where to go next with it after they've like asked that one specific question and things like that. So I've definitely been pleasantly surprised, but I think a lot of times, especially like one of the biggest misconceptions I see all the time is that you just have a growth mindset or you have a fixed mindset, like the end. When in reality, we know from the research that mindset

is very domain specific, which essentially just means you can have a fixed mindset, let's say, in your beer making abilities. And you're like, I can't get any better. Like my beer always tastes like shit, like whatever. But you can have a growth mindset when it comes to like strength training. You're like, oh yeah, like I know exactly how to use progressive overload to get stronger and get better at this. But in that case, it's like, okay, what does this person have? A growth or fixed mindset? The reality is both. So that is absolutely possible. And what I see a lot of the time is essentially just mindset and growth mindset specifically, just getting very like dumb down as if just like, oh, just think positively about your life and you'll have a growth mindset.

It's like, no, there's like so much more to it. So I see that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Tell the people where they can find you. This has been fantastic. I love all this talk. It makes me miss SoCal so much. Like we used to have these conversations, I feel like like 10 times a day, like everyone you meet is like, have you meditated today to bring awareness to the feelings that are coming up when you're confronted with this? Like, huh? What? Sure. I'll go to the beach. You want me to sit there? I'll do that. That used to be called tanning and now it's called meditating. What? We can do that. I can get behind that. That's funny. Where do people find you? Tell us about your program. I want to know, give us, give us the rundown on, on your exact coaching program. Absolutely. So yeah, as I kind of like looped in maybe half an hour earlier, my business is very

much split at this point. So I do some like coaching of other coaches and that's mainly through my health mindset coaching certification. So I've been kind of mentioning, um, I also do a little bit of like one-on-one mentorship with coaches in their businesses as well, once they've gone through that program. And then the other half is one on one coaching. So we mainly work with women. Yes, you were correct on that. Profiling over here. I'm profiling. good. So with those women, they're all coming to us, like I kind of mentioned, because they see that they are missing this other aspect in their health and fitness journey too, which is mindset and behavior change, personal development, giving these busy professional women a little bit more structure to their lifestyle to help them work through some of these things. So that's basically what I do. I do a lot of other little things. It's amazing how much time I spend on all the

other little things. But for the most part time I spend on all the other little things. But for the most part, you can find me on Instagram. That's kind of like my main social media spot. I'm Coach Casey Jo. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. How much time do you spend on Instagram a day?

I try not to spend that much time. I mean, if I took all those pictures and made it look so pretty, I wouldn't even know what to do with myself. I will say I do have some lovely people that work with me that help that come together. So it's not all me for sure. But yes, yeah, definitely. So Coach Casey Jo is my Instagram handle. Otherwise, if you want to learn more about my programs, more about me, you can go to my website and that's just KJOPoaching.com.

Fantastic. Doug Larson. You bet. I'm also on Instagram. I don't use it nearly as much these days. I very consciously tried to get off Instagram, especially since the beginning of COVID. I was like, I got to get the fuck out of here. I'm stuck in my house all day long. He's not using the explore page in the same way. Yep. I try to stay off there.

It is kind of the way of the world though so I am on there it's Douglas E. Larson Casey this was really super fun I like this topic I like talking about this type of thing and I really enjoyed it so next time I'm out in Raleigh we got to snag Sam

and go grab a drink and go hang out there you go we can get tattoos yes tattoos for everybody look at that I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore shrug. Make sure you get over to Diesel Dad

Mentorship. We're all the busy dads getting strongly in an athletic and you starting in November. I don't know when the show is going to air, but starting in November, if you are near Walmart, that means you need to get into the performance nutrition section that is in the pharmacy because my face is on three boxes in the pharmacy right now performance nutrition get over there if you're not if you're in a walmart that doesn't have it you should leave that walmart you should leave it right now and go to the one next to it because we're in 2200 of that that means at least half probably more than half of all the walmarts in this country my face is in them so go to one. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.