Barbell Shrugged - Business Strategy and Development with Dennis and Kelsey of HIITBurn — Real Chalk #57

Starting point is 00:00:00 In this episode today, I get to sit down with a couple, Kelsey and Dennis. They own a company called HitBurn. And when I say HitBurn, I mean high-intensity interval training. So you guys have heard this term before. I have my own thing called high-intensity interval bodybuilding. So this is the first one that everybody really started getting hyped on, and they're still pretty hyped on it. But Dennis and Kelsey have a unique story where instead of Instagram,

Starting point is 00:00:23 they started on Facebook back in the day and they used traditional emails and they built this really, really cool company from the ground up with literally nothing to really start with. And they had basic jobs and decided to quit one day and go all in. And I think what's really cool is Dennis even learned how to do all of the ads on his own and tried to find his market and try to figure out how much money to spend. And they started to figure out how to delegate tasks in different ways. And they wound up just creating this amazing company. And I had so many questions on my end to ask them to help me with my own stuff because they seem like they're in such a great place and they really have

Starting point is 00:01:01 everything down pat. Other than that, Kelsey dives into a little bit of her anorexia story. She got really, really, really skinny at one time and talks about overcoming that and how that's played into her programming and nutrition stuff and how she communicates with other people that are on her programs. And then Dennis also talks about what that was like to support her during that time. Not only that, we get into just so many other different type of entrepreneurial topics.

Starting point is 00:01:33 And I think this is just one of those things where if you ever wanted to own your own company online or you wanted to start a company and you're just looking for some really cool tips and you're looking for some really good motivation, this is gonna be a great, great show. You're also gonna get a lot of just valuable information. So like sometimes you listen to podcasts and it's just a good listen and you're done and you're happy about it. But this one, you're actually going to learn some things that I think would cost money to ask

Starting point is 00:01:57 somebody else. This is a really great, great podcast. I'm super stoked on it. So you can follow HitBurn on Instagram. It's just HitBurn, H-I-I-T-B-U-R-N. And you can check out the things that they do. And then you can also check them out on Facebook and on their website. And they have a whole bunch of different things going on. So let's get into this thing and hear all the things that we have to say. We're going to be sitting outside in Newport Beach. This is just great vibes.

Starting point is 00:02:22 All right, guys. I hope you love it. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Tuesday. It's time for another podcast with hopefully your favorite human on the earth, Mr. Ryan Fisher. Can I talk about myself in third person like that? I just did. All right. Well, anyway, of all the podcasts out there, I thoroughly thank you for tuning into mine because it makes me so happy.

Starting point is 00:02:43 And I hope that I make you as happy as you make me happy. And we're all just living in a happy world. All right. Anyway, moving on from being weird, I want to also thank BioOptimizers for making these awesome digestive enzymes. You guys have seen me on my Instagram post about them quite a bit. They make these things called masszymes. That does help you increase your protein absorption by like an almost unmeasurable amount.

Starting point is 00:03:07 It's like three to four times. So your boy Ryan here, I eat like a pound of meat in one sitting on the regular. I take these pills every time and I can definitely tell a difference between when I take them and when I don't take them because I haven't really taken them as much in the last couple weeks. And then I wind up getting that more of like a bloated gut, and I kind of feel a little bit slow. And my recovery is not exactly the same as when I take them. So I do feel like there is a very high level of absorption happening when I take them versus when I don't take them.

Starting point is 00:03:39 And I also think it'd be great for you guys out there who drink a lot of shakes. So if you're drinking a lot of shakes, you're probably having a super high protein intake going in each one of those shakes. And more than likely, you're not absorbing all that protein. It's not just me either. You guys listen to a lot of podcasts with Barbell Shrugged where we've had different scientists on to say you can only absorb so much or maybe you can only absorb this much or when you have too much, it's bad for you on some level. So I think it's the best thing you can do is just take a supplement like this and increase your absorption.

Starting point is 00:04:09 And mainly what you're looking for is something to have proteins in it. There's different enzymes for different macronutrients, but the Massime one has more of the proteins in it than any of the other ones because that one's specifically formulated for protein. So when you guys are looking for your digestive enzyme products, that's like the number one thing that you're looking for. And these guys just happen to have like more than double than any other company out there. There's also another factor that plays in the role of digestive enzymes is usually 80% of these companies are using enzymes that are dead. So that's why sometimes when you take these digestive enzymes,

Starting point is 00:04:45 you don't really feel anything. There's an 80% chance that what you're taking is absolutely garbage. I really feel that way about most supplements out there. So me and myself, me and myself, me and everybody over at Barbell Shrug, we like to mess around with these supplements for quite a while before we put them on the show because we don't want to leave you guys high and dry

Starting point is 00:05:04 and make you feel like we gave you something that wasn't really all that great so if it's on this show you can rest assured that it's an awesome product another thing that these guys have that is really cool and i've i've only used it once so far but it was pretty awesome is they have something called gluten guardian so basically when you're gonna make it rain and have this crazy cheat day you take this stuff called glutenuten Guardian and it like, I don't know what it is, but like you literally don't feel nearly as bad as when you don't take it. So like there could be a mental factor there because I always like mentally feel like a dog with the tail between my legs when I eat a bunch of bad food. But this stuff definitely breaks up something in there and it definitely makes you feel way better. It gives you that restful peace of mind. You're

Starting point is 00:05:48 like, all right, I'm going to eat like shit. I'm going to take my pill. It's going to be cool. So I do think that helps quite a bit. And then you, I mean, you feel way better the next day. I mean, there's so many things about it. It's not even the immediate feeling of like terribleness is even not even really there. So I would definitely check out the gluten guardian product as well. You guys can go to biooptimizers.com that's B I O P T I M I Z E R S.com and use chalk 20, all capital letters, C H A L K 20, the number. So Chalk20 will get you 20% off anything over there at BioOptimizers. Also, unless you guys have not really been on social media at all, because I'm all over that freaking thing right now, promoting my new product, the High Intensity Interval Bodybuilding,

Starting point is 00:06:38 those books are available on CrossFitChalk.com. I also just came out with a brand new dumbbell-only book. So if you're one of those people who either travels a lot or you don't have a lot of equipment, the dumbbell book has been killing it right now. A lot of people are picking that thing up. There's 30 days of workouts in there that are really, really awesome. And all you need is a set of 45s or a set of 50s.

Starting point is 00:07:00 And if you're a lady, all you need is a set of 30s or 35s. And you can get that whole book done. Other than that, I also have a kettlebell book. The kettlebell and dumbbell books are kind of similar. So I would just pick one or the other on that. And I have been running nutrition challenges on there. So there's a whole bunch of stuff kind of just funneling into that. And then beyond that, you guys know me as the man who makes all the programs. So I've been programming the CrossFit Chalk programming and the Chalk performance programming the CrossFit Chalk programming and the Chalk performance training on CrossFitChalk.com. We have the online membership. It's $20 a month.

Starting point is 00:07:31 There's no discount codes for that, but for the books, you can use capital real Chalk, R-E-A-L-C-H-A-L-K, all caps. It'll get you 25% off any of the eBooks in my store. All right. So without further ado, let's get into this thing. What's up, Chalk Nation? We're back. We're actually in Newport Beach right now. It's really, really nice outside. And we are outside, which I already said, with the HitBurn couple, Dennis and Kelsey.

Starting point is 00:08:01 If you guys don't know these guys, this couple actually, I should say, they have a really cool business online and they have e-books, they have subscriptions. It's a subscription too, right? Yep. And you have an app and you have all sorts of things

Starting point is 00:08:14 and they've been out for a while. You guys started on Facebook, I assume? Yes. Before Instagram. You had that before Instagram. Yes. Yeah. That's always interesting to me

Starting point is 00:08:22 because Facebook now to me is like, I don't even know what it is. I feel like I hate it. It just makes me so sad. I go on there. I'm like, I hate this. The only reason I do it is like for groups. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:32 I feel like it's a group thing. Anyway, so you guys started this company and it's been growing like out of control. And I always love to have good inspiring stories of how people came from X and went to X. So which is really great. And I actually don't know that part of the story. We've been here talking about stuff that should have been on the podcast potentially for the last 30 minutes. And then I was like, let's just put these headphones on and let's go.

Starting point is 00:08:55 So I actually don't know the story of how it started. So why don't you guys first introduce yourselves and then we'll talk about how the whole thing just kind of got going and where you guys started. And yeah, we'll start there how the whole thing just kind of got going and where you guys started and yeah we'll start there great all right my name is Kelsey Heenan and Dennis and I started this company back in around 2013 it was actually Dennis who started and he was it was your idea it was my idea I was doing personal training at the time and so I was working crazy amounts of hours hours. And then in the middle of the day, when I had the break, I was working on online stuff. Cause I was trying to figure out like not only how to reach more people, but also just, you know, I wanted to work online. I knew that's what I wanted to do. And so, yeah, that's how it kind of, kind of got started. I just started messing around with building websites and

Starting point is 00:09:42 building programs and things like that. I always knew I was good at programming workouts. And so that's kind of how, how it got started. What year was this? Uh, so I started doing personal training in 2010 and then I started messing around with online stuff in 2011. Okay. Yeah. That's a good time. Yeah. So Instagram wasn't even there yet. No, it was not. It was not. Yeah. So yeah, you, you were training and, you know, starting to do the online stuff, just kind of messing around with all of that. And we, we made it a goal that once he really started to dive in, he was like, you know what? I just want to do this full time. Let's figure out how to make it happen. So he was like, I'm going to quit my personal training job

Starting point is 00:10:22 and just go fully online. And I was like, all right, let's do it. But the part of the story that people don't know is that this was 2013 in May. And I went to her and I said that. And she immediately was like, okay, sounds good. Like, I had made, we had made like $250 the full year prior when I went to her instead of quitting and going online. She was like, all right, cool. But we set the goal of having her join me a year later and having her quit her job in 2014, which is exactly what happened.

Starting point is 00:10:52 That is so great when someone's so supportive of the whole subject. I mean, I can't tell you how many times people say that they want to do something and the other person's like, well, there's all these ifs and buts and stuff. And it really changes it right away. Because I really feel like you want your life partner to instantly person's like, well, like there's like all these ifs and buts and stuff. And it, it really changes it right away. Cause I really feel like you want your life partner to like instantly just be like, like no hesitation at all and just be like, yeah, let's do it. Totally. And that's really, really cool.

Starting point is 00:11:13 And I commend you for that. Thank you. You guys are lucky for sure. Um, that is like such a pivotal point. I feel like in everybody's life to when you are like, okay, I have to quit this now for this to work. And there's always that point of like, you fell, your eyes are closed, you're falling back and you have no idea. Well, actually there is no one there to catch you. You kind of have to catch yourself. So what was that like to just dive into that and what made you think at that point,

Starting point is 00:11:40 I'm going to be okay. I'm going to make enough to where it's going to work. Yeah. I mean, it was really intimidating at first, but you know, I was, I'm super driven, super motivated. And I was, I got a business coach to kind of help out with that. I was part of a mastermind group, um, that really helped. And so we launched our, our first product and, you know, picked up our first, I think it was like 500 customers, which was great. And so we, we kind of have the first product. Uh, it was actually, it was called superhero sprints. It was a sprinting program. So not even our brand.

Starting point is 00:12:06 Like everything previously was around like superheroes. So we had like Superhero Sprint, Superhero Body. Superhero Abs. Superhero Abs. And so that, because I was like the face of everything. Kelsey was kind of helping just, you know, when she could, because she was working full time. And then when she quit her job, HipBurn came about probably a year after that.

Starting point is 00:12:25 So yeah, the brand basically came about because we created a program called HipBurn. So it was just an interval training program. And we called it HipBurn. Oh, that was the name of a program. It was the name of a program. And then you're like, okay, this name is really good. Yeah. Well, and the people that were on our email list really seemed to like it. Yeah, it was our best selling program for sure. Yeah. So we said, well, there's got to be something to this. And we don't, I mean, now it's the two of us. And so we wanted to figure out how to make me a part of it as well and a part of the face of it.

Starting point is 00:12:54 Is this still 2011? No, this was, so when Dennis quit in 2013, so he had just like been dabbling in online stuff before that. And then he was like, he went gung ho in this mastermind group and started really learning everything in 2013. And then I joined him in May of 2014. Okay. And then is that when the name hit burn came? No, that was, uh, 2015, 2015. Yeah. So I'll say this like in 2014, kind of like you said, like the unknown portion of, of all of this. So, I mean, you quit a really good job. She's working for the Minneapolis public school district. And,

Starting point is 00:13:29 uh, we basically quit. I mean, everyone thought we were crazy. We went and traveled through Europe and it was one of those things where it was like, we weren't making a ton of money, but it was like, we're going to make this work and like nothing was going to stop us. And so we, we stayed at, you know, super cheap Airbnbs. We got to travel for four months and we made it work. I mean, when you put yourself kind of like up against that, you just figure things out. And that's when we started like really, uh, testing different things and seeing what works. And that's why I was asking you when, uh, that name came about specifically, because I would say right around 2013, 14 is when that word, the acronym hit was like, just killing it. Yeah. So like, I think when, as soon as you guys pick that name i think it made a huge transition for from super body to that yeah is massive especially on google search engine or

Starting point is 00:14:12 probably 97.9 of the females out there want to hear that word hit yeah it's like it's like a puppy yeah right oh yeah we were talking before and kelsey completely lost consciousness when she saw a puppy run by i. So I feel like if you, if you say hit training, I feel like some girls like on the treadmill and she's like, what? Yep. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:30 And like when we've released that, I mean, it's interesting cause we saw a switch within our audience. Like that was when we started, when we created hit burn the program, our audience at the time was probably 70% men, 30% women. But like we noticed all the buyers for the program were mainly women and so that's when

Starting point is 00:14:46 I started testing different Facebook stuff and that's when the page started growing and our audience now is 90% women 10% men just like complete flip-flop but yeah that's how it kind of kind of got started yeah my stuff right now I feel like is 80% men right now. But I have a lot of gay guys that like me a lot. Love it. I'm not exactly sure why. I love it so much. It could be the mixture of very odd photos I post on Instagram at times with little or no clothing.

Starting point is 00:15:15 Maybe that's something to do with it. All right, so now you have the brand. And now you're... Because at one point, you were really really skinny right yes yeah i just want to bring that up at some point yep because i feel like there's a story there there is okay so now you guys are 2014 things are cruising um you're starting to figure out how to build the business so what was your biggest obstacle in the beginning and then what was like the most beneficial thing that you did in that

Starting point is 00:15:45 time to overcome the obstacle biggest obstacle in the beginning was because everyone's scared to start a business for sure um and then when you start you're like all right this is cool but it can be cooler totally i think what what holds a lot of people up is just not taking action and trying to move forward i think a lot of people get stuck on, and it's easy to, it's like, you get stuck on like, Oh, I want the color of my website to be slightly different. And you know, like the, the very little things when, when the reality is when we started posting just more content and like really trying to find our voice and figuring, figuring out the message that we wanted to put out there, that's when things really started to take off. And, um, I mean, when you, when you say that? Totally. Yeah. A lot of people get stuck in needing to have the absolute perfectly buttoned

Starting point is 00:16:30 up business plan with the website that is absolutely flawless instead of just getting out there and having people fall in love with that. That is so great. Yeah. I absolutely love that. That was like the best comment I think you guys could have said. Cause I, I feel like in my own businesses, I was always like, Oh, I want it to be this way. I want it to be this way. And I'd see people that I think everybody sees someone that they're like, I'm better than that person. And that's fine to think that way. It's not relevant whether it's right or wrong. But sometimes you know that you have the capability inside of you to do something better than something else that you're looking at. And I'm just like, I remember one day I just was like, all right, I'm doing this. Yeah. And I did it.

Starting point is 00:17:03 And it wasn't perfect, but it gave me the opportunity to learn, gave me the opportunity to fail. And I think when you fail, you have like great success after. 100%. And it was like the biggest thing ever. Totally. So now you're just doing it. That was like the biggest one.

Starting point is 00:17:20 I think that's really, really good. Was there any like hard obstacles that came in the way? Yeah, for sure. I mean, we went through a lot of different phases, you know, when, like I mentioned, I got a coach back in 2013 when, when we got, when I went full time, um, much of the, what they did was a lot of affiliate stuff. So mailing to different people's products and things like that. And I still remember back then, like we had our own programs, but I'm like mailing to someone else's ad program, for example. And I'm like sitting there and I'm kind of thinking my program's better. Why am I sending to someone else's? And so our goal was always to kind of build like our own ecosystem and own community where we, you know,

Starting point is 00:17:55 if someone needs a strength workouts, we've got them. If you need to hit workouts, we've got them nutrition plans. And, um, so there was a lot of obstacles because it was trying to figure out how to generate revenue when in the beginning it was only affiliates. And that was, that was really tough. Like we were making money, but it was like a hard, I don't know, it was, it was hard for us to do that. And it's because we knew we wanted something more and to create that community. Um, and we went through a lot of different iterations of what the business kind of looked

Starting point is 00:18:21 like. We had, um, a membership site for a while that we thought was going to be the end all be all, um, ended up kind of like scrapping that and then kind of moving on to some other things. But, um, yeah. Yeah. We, we've gone through a lot of iterations and that's another piece that I think really holds people up is, is the, that the online world, your business model can change and it should change as the world changes. I think that's important to bring up too. It should change. Yeah. Don't be afraid of change. It's so true. If you are afraid of it, you're in trouble because it's going to change on you like that. And you're not even going to realize it. Being able to adapt quickly is really important. And so that's something that, uh, I believe that we have done well is being able to see, okay, we see a problem

Starting point is 00:19:02 here. How can we adapt and change to make this work and to be something that we actually enjoy doing? So not just what's working, but also what do we want our lives to be like and what do we want to be spending our time doing? And so, yeah, we started with affiliate marketing and that was a really important learning process. And we met a lot of amazing people through that. And so that was really cool. And then we did that for about a year ish, would you say? And then we wanted, we were like, okay, we want in 2015 to be able to figure out how can we be self-sufficient without if no one else mailed to our products, how could we be able to really stay afloat and be able to drive traffic and earn revenue and all of that stuff. And so that's when Dennis really started diving into Facebook and figuring out

Starting point is 00:19:46 like a more in-depth email marketing and things like that. Yeah. Do you guys use like MailChimp or something like that along with your? Yeah. So we've gone through a couple. We went, we started with a Weber and then we transitioned over to infusion soft. And then we've,

Starting point is 00:20:00 we're currently using a company called Maripost to send all of our emails. Yeah. I actually never heard of them, but yeah. So Maripost is like all of our emails. I've actually never heard of them. Yeah, so Maripost is like, I mean, if you send high volume, they're really good because they handle. They're really good with deliverability and things like that. Oh, that's cool. I've had MailChimp for like ever. Nice.

Starting point is 00:20:17 It does cost money. Does that cost money too? Oh, yeah. We spend a lot on email marketing. Pain in the butt. For sure. But it's cool. I mean, email marketing has been a spend a lot on email marketing. Pain in the butt. For sure. But it's cool.

Starting point is 00:20:27 I mean, email marketing has been a big piece of what we do. And so it's important even though it's expensive. Explain email marketing to people. I mean, Dennis, you're... So email marketing is essentially when you build an email list of either customers or leads or a combination of both. And you can send them emails to promote different products or stay in touch, send workouts, recipes. That's what we use it for. Also, like follow-up sequences. So if someone opts in for a free report of ours, the goal is to get them to purchase the program.

Starting point is 00:20:52 And so we have an email sequence of seven emails that we send out over the course of seven days. So we'll get one email per day. And it drip feeds. It goes out automatically. You don't think that's too much? We email every day. Really? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:04 Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So we kind of, I mean, there's... Do you feel like that had better results than like once a month or something like that? I mean, for us, definitely. Like Kel said, email is a huge part of what we do. And when people first get on our email list, we kind of tell them like, hey, we have information to share. It's going to be relevant information for whether it's workouts or nutrition's workouts or, um, uh, nutrition or whatever it is.

Starting point is 00:21:27 And so we, we provide a lot of content and we, you know, we have good responses from our email readers and we see great open rates with, with them and good engagement and things like that. So, oh, that's cool. I kind of like that. Um, what are some of the things that you do to get people to be on your email list that are free? Like, so for my eBooks and stuff like that, if you go to my Shopify account and you leave, it says like, so you've decided to be fat and slow. I have like, I have like a funny like thing. If you decide to not sign up for the newsletter, if you do sign up, it's like 20% off, I think the books or something like that. You have something similar to that. Yeah. So we, most of ours is,

Starting point is 00:22:01 uh, we send to, you know, our carb cycling quiz is an example. We have like a couple of different quizzes that we send people to. So if you come in, you have 20 or more pounds to lose, let's say you answer a few questions and you enter your name and email and we give you the information to, to show you kind of what to do to get to that goal. There's also the option to purchase the program where you get meals and all of that. And so that's one way. Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's a good way you can collect good information. You know, you collect whether they're male or female, their age range, because, and their goal. Because like if someone has, you know, 50 pounds to lose, you don't want to be like, hey, here's how to get

Starting point is 00:22:35 ripped. Like that's not their goal at that moment. It's, you want to be able to cater the language to them. And that's, that's what quizzes are really good for. Because then you can put them on different segments of your email list and then have that message be. It could be basically the same, like, meat of the email, but have the language be slightly catered. Because, yeah, we get lots of different types of people who come in the door. So being able to talk to them directly is important. That's good stuff. I like that.

Starting point is 00:23:00 Good stuff. Especially for gym owners out there. You guys should definitely make one of those emails, emails like when someone comes to your site that gives them like a discount on their first month of the gym or something like that a lot of people just completely bypass that yeah and i can't i can't even stress how many people will sign up for that just and then you all of a sudden you have their email it's a great thing um so where does the program like so majority of stuff you guys do now is body weight correct a lot of it we have one strong program called strong um but the majority of our stuff within the uh like within our app which you know has like a couple hundred uh follow-along workouts is either body weight or

Starting point is 00:23:34 just a pair of dumbbells okay yeah so very accessible is that kind of what compelled the europe trip because you guys wanted to figure it out on the trip? Yeah, I mean... Or did you guys just want to go to Europe? I mean, combination of both. Yeah, both and. Yeah, so part of the reason we scheduled the trip, like we literally booked our tickets in like, I think it was April. So, I mean, we were doing it for sure. And it was on that trip, though, that we discovered bodyweight training and really like the power of it, essentially,

Starting point is 00:24:04 because that's what we did. Like while we were traveling, we were just kind of um you know we're we're in super small airbnbs and we were just needed to work out and so that's where the our bodyweight programs kind of started coming from right and we just yeah we really enjoyed it and we found things that worked really well and we knew that our audience was starting to shift to being uh just wanting more accessible options and things that people could do at home and so we we just really figured that this would be a great way to obviously we this is what we do and it works for us and so we want to share that with the world yeah because i mean i'm definitely known for like super hardcore training

Starting point is 00:24:41 and like strength training and stuff like that and like like when I was an athlete, that was like my thing. And I recently came out with a dumbbell book because I travel so much and I was like, I'm going to make a book just on dumbbells. And I never imagined, I would have never imagined how well it actually did. There's not any people out there that are like, man, I just need dumbbells. And I was like, so excited that that worked out for so many people because I thought it was going to be kind of like, oh, it'll okay like it crushed it i couldn't believe it yeah i mean people i we we do feel like don't get me wrong like our our strong program which is a gym program barbell dumbbell that's our favorite program that's what we do when we're at home um but yeah i mean people love the accessibility because you can buy a pair of dumbbells for what 30 bucks and train right at

Starting point is 00:25:22 home and there you go you got your program but i actually thought that the world liked kettlebells more i just thought that like especially for women oh i guess my people are mostly men but like i feel like a kettlebell is like not very intimidating it's very cheap you can get away with one um it's just like a universal symbol of fitness yeah i feel like the dumbbell is so overplayed and then i had the dumb the kettlebell program I had up for a while and I put the dumbbell up program the dumbbell program up like months and months after and it way out beat the kettlebell one wow so I think there's more people looking for dumbbells than kettlebells which I think is crazy because I feel like I see kettlebells everywhere and I don't ever see anyone talking about dumbbell workouts yeah I think that's like I mean that going back to kind of what we were

Starting point is 00:26:03 talking about like just goes back to like testing different things, you know, like, I mean, I can't tell you how many times we've, yeah, we've, we thought, you know, oh my gosh, this program is going to absolutely crush it and it does terrible. And then we put something out, you know, we get an idea, we put it out in a day and it just does super, super well. It's like one of those things that sometimes it's the things you don't expect. Yeah. Being adaptable and just like putting something out there. And it's not like you want to rush through everything that you do, but testing ideas is really important to see, okay, do people actually want this before I spend all of this time and pour tons of money

Starting point is 00:26:35 and resources into making something that maybe people don't even want. Yeah. I think a big thing too, that is an obstacle for most people is they think that because you guys are out there, because there's people like me out there or whatever, and they're selling stuff, they're never going to sell anything because, like, why would someone want to buy from them? You know, and it's like in the reality of things, like you and I both have like 100 something thousand followers. We're not like million follower hitters. And there's people still buying a lot of this stuff and still getting inspired and still getting results and would probably follow us over the person with a million followers. So I think it's like really easy for people to get discouraged when it's just like extremely unnecessary. And if you just believe in yourself,

Starting point is 00:27:13 especially and just get going, like you guys said, like that's like number one thing for people out there that are listening to this podcast right now. And I'll say one thing with, with that is when I, when I first got started, um, and we were doing the affiliate stuff stuff i couldn't believe how many people they would buy my ab program and then you know then they'd go buy someone else's ab program and i'm like why like why did you just but people are unfortunately people are always looking for that next best thing and we cherry pickers yeah and they'll just look at both of them be like which one looks more fun totally whatever yeah and so there there's i mean you always say it all the time like there's tons of of people in the world that are looking for the solution that's going to fit them. And, you know, when people come through our systems, we're trying to show them like, hey, this is what we do.

Starting point is 00:27:54 And for a lot of people, like you're not going to get everybody. But there's people out there that are, you know, if you're scared to start, there are people out there that are going to gravitate towards you and your programs, your personality. And your body type. Yeah. And your body type. Totally. I saw you put a video up the other day and you're like, see this girl? Not going to gravitate towards you and your programs, your personality. And your body type. Yeah. And your body type. Totally. I saw you put a video up the other day and you're like, see this girl? Not going to look like her. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:12 See this girl? Not going to look like her. And I was like, that's a dope video because it's like so true. And it doesn't really matter if you look like that person or not. Right. But there is one person out there looking to look just like that one person. Yeah. It might be a million, it might be a hundred thousand, but there's definitely something out there for everybody. Yeah. Agreed. So let's talk about, since I actually came out and contacted you at some point about a friend

Starting point is 00:28:28 of mine who was having some eating problems. I know you had one at some point and does that flow into any of the things that you guys do now? Is that part of anything? It's like something that you concentrate on or you like to hit up with girl cause you have 90% women and I'm sure food comes up all the time and body image comes up all the time. It sure does. And body image comes up all the time. And disorders and different things. So let's talk about that. Yeah. So back in college, 2008, 2009, I became anorexic. And so I was a college.

Starting point is 00:28:56 Did you know you were anorexic? Not at first. Oh, absolutely not. No. So I was a college athlete. Dennis and I both played basketball in college. Shocker. You guys are super tall.

Starting point is 00:29:04 We are tall yeah so I'm both super driven people and love to work hard and everything and that's always been me I've been a type a person my whole life I like to work hard do things well not only well but perfectly and so as I went to college that just became even more exaggerated because I played on a team that was really, really good. And so it was a lot more competitive than anything I had ever experienced. And so I just wanted to be the best I could be. And so I just started trying to do a little bit more in all the areas. So work a little bit harder in my practices, eat more healthy, do better in school, just all of these different areas. And so just along

Starting point is 00:29:47 the way, it kind of started snowballing slowly, but I would start putting different rules in place for myself of, okay, I'm only going to eat these types of foods because this is what's healthy. And so I'm going to be as healthy as I possibly could be. And I'm going to do extra runs after practice because that's, what's going to give me a leg up on everyone else's if I just work a little bit harder. And so after months of that, um, it started, uh, basically going downhill super quickly. And, uh, there, there came a point where at least it was quick. Yes. And you know, honestly, like I am very thankful that I basically just fell off a cliff because I got help really quickly. And that made a huge difference in my life. So basically in 2009, I hit this point where I hated who I was.

Starting point is 00:30:38 I hated everything about myself. I started not only trying to eat healthy, but I started just restricting foods. And this wasn't necessarily a choice. It just was something that I felt compelled to do. And so that was really frustrating for me at points because I didn't understand why I felt so anxious and so terrified to eat certain things. But it's just what my mind was telling me. And so I eventually, within a pretty short period of time, I lost 30% of my body weight. Um, I didn't have any weight to lose. I I've always been a

Starting point is 00:31:10 fairly thin person. And so, uh, yeah, basically I, I hit this point where I'm like, I can't even like function. I had to quit the team because the doctor told me if I went on a run, I could go into cardiac arrest. I had, yeah, my body was deteriorating before my eyes. And so Dennis was a huge piece of being able to get me help because he was like, if you don't talk to your parents, I'm going to talk to them. So like, okay, whatever. And so we eventually talked to my family and we realized that I needed some serious help very quickly. And so I went to treatment at UCSD and went to an intensive family therapy program there. And, um, that was an, uh, an amazing experience. I mean, it was literally the worst week of my

Starting point is 00:31:56 life. It was absolute hell, but what came out of it was amazing because at that point, um, they, they started the refeeding process where I just had to be able to, uh, get weight restored in order for my brain to start functioning well again, and be able to start understanding like, oh my gosh, these habits are not healthy habits. And then at that point we, I learned a lot of the tools to be able to continue recovery after that. And so it was a lot of therapy, a lot of hard work, a lot of accountability from Dennis specifically and, uh, my family as well. And at that point, um, I, you know, about a year later, I didn't have symptoms after that. And so I just continued in, in my recovery and now it's, I mean, it's 2019

Starting point is 00:32:39 now. So coming up on 10 years in December. So in December of 2019 will be 10 years, which I'm so thankful. Cheesecake party? All the cheesecake, yeah. Yeah, so that's a very short version of my story. But that is such a huge piece of what we do now. And for a while in my recovery, I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want that to be my identity. And I didn't want that to be, like, I didn't want to be the person who used to be anorexic, you know? And

Starting point is 00:33:08 so that was something that was a little scary to me and I didn't want that to be who I was. But now as I'm almost 10 years recovered, it's like, oh my gosh, this is something that so many people struggle with. And I want to be an empowering voice for them. That's like a really big stripe on your uniform. Like if like you're in the military and you have like, if you had like pins, you'd want that one for sure. Like in the, in the world of fitness, like that's, I mean, you wouldn't want it, but like, you'd want to display that you had that experience. And I think it's huge for a lot of people, especially women. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's interesting, a lot of men too, and maybe not necessarily, uh, men or women who have, uh have an eating disorder, but there are so many

Starting point is 00:33:47 people that experience disordered eating habits and a disordered mindset or just have terrible body image and have had it for years. And so those, you know, I'm not a doctor, so I am not a person to treat someone with an eating disorder,, I know the resources to send people to you, but what I feel our message is now is to be able to help people who are teetering on that edge or really just have extreme or just any sort of body image, uh, issues to be able to speak life and truth into them and help them work through that in order to experience complete freedom with their nutrition and their exercise. Because I struggled with both. Are you emailing people about this like weekly? Is this like this happened quite a bit? Yeah. I mean, so we, yeah, I mean, we get a lot of questions, especially now since we started sharing her story more and more. And I mean, you know, because of what we, you know, you went

Starting point is 00:34:36 through and I went through with her, um, much of our message was kind of formed on that. Cause when I, when I got started, it's like, I needed to be careful, you know, cause I didn't want something to trigger her or, or things like that. So when we started creating like our nutrition plans, I was like, okay, it needs to be something that everyone can follow. That's super flexible. That's balanced, things like that. And, um, we just kind of over the years have just kind of like developed and that's where, you know, the strategies that we talk about are very, very flexible, very very balanced but can help people get results but also like feel good doing it um and it's not impossible to do right that's like the key totally like i've had i've had friends where it's like you can't eat out with them like you can't like it's just like can you please just try a bite of this it's super good and they're

Starting point is 00:35:19 just like no and it's not even like unhealthy stuff it's like yeah but it's yeah that that mindset of like i can't have that like food rules and that's ridiculous well and it it it does feel ridiculous but to a person who is struggling yeah that is completely normal and that is the way that it should be you know so being able to identify those differences has been huge for for us being able to communicate with people because it's like that those feelings used to be so real for me and so I understand where they're coming from and that you know what you don't have to feel that way forever and that here are some strategies you know that can help you be able to like if a person is generally healthy but they just struggle with some mindset stuff and want to work towards results like here are some strategies to do that

Starting point is 00:36:03 and here's how to help heal your mindset in the process. That's super important. Your mindset is, is massive. It is. It totally is. Yeah. Like, like going back, like when, whenever we post like the, I mean the before and after, like what she, where she was at to, you know, where she is now. I've seen that. Yeah. I mean, it's super crazy. I mean, we get tons of messages from people and, I mean, uh, well a couple months ago she has a course now called balance that kind of walks people through like the mindset piece of it. And while she was putting that together, it was crazy just like watching her. Cause I'd just be working. I'd look up and she'd just be like bawling her eyes out. Cause she had never put her story on paper. And so she was like

Starting point is 00:36:36 reliving all of that stuff. And I would just be like, Hey, what's going on? And she would just kind of be like, I had to go over and like read, read over her shoulder. And I mean, it's, it's powerful stuff, but when, like if she can get through it, like, I mean, anyone can, that's, I think your message to, to so many people, like you've been there and, and too, it's like, um, you know, a lot of people that struggle with like, that want to lose weight still go through those same emotions and same thought patterns as someone that's struggling on the other end of things. It doesn't matter if you have 30% body fat or 5%. The mentality could be exactly the same.

Starting point is 00:37:08 There are elements that no matter how much body fat or what your body looks like, if the mindset isn't right, it's still hard to live a healthy and balanced life. I've been there before with one other person. Um, probably listen to this podcast. I'm not gonna get into it, but you know, so, so many people struggle with it. And a lot of times it's silent and people experience that pain just within themselves. And that's, that's a really tough way to live. And you have to be at the point though, cause like I've, I've done enough research on it. Cause I really wanted to help this person where it's like if you're not ready to do it it's just not going to happen both and like because there there definitely is an

Starting point is 00:37:54 element of being ready but there's also an element of like depending on where that specific person or any person is individually like sometimes physiologically you have to be weight restored in order for your brain to start functioning well again i do believe that because this person like changed quite a bit like over time yeah and i would tell them i'd be like this you're like not the same person anymore and that's that's hard to hear as someone who's struggling and also um yeah it can be not only hard to hear but but hard to understand. Yeah, I mean, I imagine it's impossible. Yeah. It really is.

Starting point is 00:38:30 I mean, being on the other side of, like, watching her kind of deteriorate, I had no idea what was going on in the beginning. It was like, you know, her just saying, I don't want to eat pizza. No, I'm good. And for me, I'm like, okay, super good. You know, I didn't understand it. And obviously the week that we went into the family treatment, I, like, fully understood, I mean, not fully, I understood better what, you know, the mind goes through and how

Starting point is 00:38:51 you're not, they're not really like thinking for themselves really. Um, but yeah, I was like the, you kind of went downhill. I really had no idea until that certain point where I was like, like you said, you're different. Like there's some things off, like we need to call your parents. We need to get you help. But yeah. And it's weird too, because I, I have always been responsible. I have always been an overachiever. I've always been able to trust myself. And so it was super weird and uncomfortable to be like, I don't know if I can trust my mind right now.

Starting point is 00:39:20 I don't know if I can trust my intuition for what feels right and to be able to let go enough to, to feel like, okay, you know what? I do need to get some help. Uh, that's a strange and really difficult thing to experience. And, you know, it was, it was fascinating when I was actually in treatment. Uh, I was with, I was the oldest one. So I was 21 and I was with like two 16 year olds, a 14 year old and a seven year old and seven years old. Yeah. And this, this girl, I, it just honestly, like it broke my heart to, to see her. I mean, she was so young, but it's crazy because as we would talk about our experiences and our feelings and our behaviors, we understood each other more than anything else. I mean, I, we were in completely different life stages. I was engaged to be married. I was in

Starting point is 00:40:11 college, you know, all this stuff. And she was, I don't know, how old is a seventh grader, second grade. Um, but yeah, whatever that is, I'm sorry. What grade was she in? Seventh grader and second grade already was a problem. Right, right, right. But anyway, I mean, we understood each other completely in what we were experiencing. And so that was a really revolutionary thing to be like, okay, there is something to be healed here because that is like, yeah, I shouldn't have a lot in common with someone who's that age.

Starting point is 00:40:39 But yeah, so it was a really powerful moment for me to experience that. That is an amazing picture to be painted right there. So for those of you listening, that is pretty interesting. I can't imagine. It almost feels like Dr. Seuss' book. It's like this big old Grinch, like, talking to the little girl. Yes, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:55 That's, like, what I thought of just now. Well, that's the thing. It's, like, eating disorders do not discriminate against gender, age, socioeconomic status. It doesn't discriminate against anything. Anyone can struggle with eating disorders or these types of body image issues. And so that was a really powerful thing to experience. So what year is this? So that was in 2009.

Starting point is 00:41:17 Okay, so you guys haven't even started any of this stuff yet or even thought about it yet. No, no. All right, so now that you guys are fast-forwarded, you're good. You're good now. Everything's good. You guys are, we're back to the point where now you're like starting to figure out your audience on the HitBurn stuff. You guys are obviously seasoned in nutrition now.

Starting point is 00:41:36 Yep. And on your, on your workout stuff, because Superman was a big player in this in the beginning. So what has been like recently some of the like most helpful changes that you've made, if you've made any at all? Like, I remember I was telling you how I struggle because I do everything myself. What was it like kind of delegating tasks and trusting people and the hiring process? And yeah, I mean, I think for, for us, like, um, kind of like we mentioned before, testing a lot of different things, like we tested, you know, different messaging and things like that, that were still in line with like what we do. But it's finding that core message of,

Starting point is 00:42:10 you know, forgetting your stuff out there. In terms of learnings on like delegating tasks, it's a very intimidating process at first. Like we had no idea like where to even start. And actually our very first person that we hired lasted three days. And so we got to hire and fire someone very quickly. What did she do?

Starting point is 00:42:31 Nothing. He asked for a raise on day three. Wow. And we were both kind of like, wait, what? Yeah. It was pretty comical actually. But we learned a lot from that. We did. And, you know, it was pretty comical actually. But we learned a lot from that. And you know,

Starting point is 00:42:45 it's, it's important I think to go through some things that you don't expect and some things that feel really difficult and uncomfortable because we, we learned a lot now. And then the next time we did that, we're like, okay, we know so many more questions to ask. We know so many more things to explain differently.

Starting point is 00:43:03 And so it was ultimately helpful, as uncomfortable as it was. So how many employees do you have now? We have two employees and we have some contractors that help us with things like video. Okay. That's cool. So do you have, do the videos, are you, do you know the people who are editing the videos or no? Yes. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So sometimes people people put them out there and then someone edits it and you have no idea who they are. For sure. And I get nervous with stuff like that. Yeah, we work with a guy up in Portland.

Starting point is 00:43:32 Okay, that's cool. So he films and edits the majority of our stuff. Yeah, he's been great. He's awesome. Yeah. We love Matt. I think video is extremely underrated right now. There's a lot of people that don't realize how much the video can actually reach people.

Starting point is 00:43:47 I remember I was sponsored by a company called Bang. Yep. That was a learning experience. Sure. They were paying me quite a bit of money to just post for them. And I had this weird moment where I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And it was such a scary time because I really wanted the money and needed the money at the time. But I was like, I just can't, it's just like not who I am. And I started like marketing my own things. And it was the first

Starting point is 00:44:12 time I like wanted to really market my own things and I just needed to do it. And that was when I did it when I quit, quit that. And it like everything kind of took off after that, which thank God I did that. But I literally felt like I was losing who I was. Totally. But it is interesting. I mean, we had a similar experience. Like we had a membership for a while and we just didn't like the way people were getting into the membership and, and this is your online membership. Yeah. This was our online, uh, 2015 I think was when we started this and it was subscription. Yeah. It was subscription. So we had like three or 400 people paying, I think it was like $4,700 a month. And, um, I mean, so at the time, like we, that was great for us. And like one day we were both just like, I do not like this. Like it was so much stress, like just for multiple reasons. And we literally just canceled it, like canceled everyone in a day. Wow.

Starting point is 00:44:58 Just like boom. And, but then, like you said, everything, like the other things that we're working on slowly or just continue to grow. And that's what we do. Yeah. It gives you more mental clarity and energy to be able to focus on the things that you want to do. And then that just makes you more productive and create better things. Yeah. That's how I feel about my gym right now. It has to be open seven days a week.

Starting point is 00:45:21 Yep. And like on the seventh day of programming workouts, I'm like, this is dumb. I can't stand this. Like you guys need to go home yeah you know or like just make up a workout today or something like you don't need to be in a class setting we don't need to do this workout right now like it's a lot of work some people either want to work out seven days a week or for me as the person programming i'm like this doesn't make sense to me anymore and it's making all this so much harder to do but i wonder like what i wonder what the right answer is there like if i made it open gym where people came in and just made up a workout that they missed would they be okay with that or would i lose somebody because they're like oh i really like

Starting point is 00:45:55 going on sundays i can't make it during the week but in my eyes i hate it and i know it's bad for people like you shouldn't be there seven days in a week. Right. And then even whatever we do on Sunday is probably going to get repeated like pretty soon. Right. Because I make everything different Monday through Friday. And then Saturday is like team workouts. You work out with a buddy. Fun. And then Sunday is like – it's kind of like a lot of stuff.

Starting point is 00:46:20 Yeah. That could be your first delegating task. Yeah. Delegate someone to make Sundays work out. Oh, that could be a good – that could be good. Good start. That would be good first delegating task. Delegate someone to make Sunday's workout. That could be good. Good start. That would be good. There you go.

Starting point is 00:46:30 The only thing is that person doesn't know what I'm going to make for Monday. That's true. So, like, workout-wise. Team meetings. I've actually only been the only person to make workouts for my whole gym, like, for the last five years. Wow. Dang. No one's ever made one besides me.

Starting point is 00:46:46 Wow. And I have two different programs. So I've made like thousands of programs now. And then I have different books on different things. And I've made all those workouts too. Yeah, that can be tough to be like, okay, yeah, I can delegate that. Right now, I come here. That's so in your hands.

Starting point is 00:46:59 Right where we are right now. And I'm like, all right, here we go. And like six hours later, I'll have made six workouts it's awful because i'm trying so hard to make them creative yeah totally because i'm like i've already made that i already made that i already made that but it's like when did i make that i have no idea anymore yep but yeah that that is definitely something i would love to have help with at some point that is stuff i mean going translating that to online obviously you know having the gym i i feel like a lot of, you know, listeners want to do something online. Like one of the things that we did in the beginning was create tons of programs and

Starting point is 00:47:30 they're all different. Just, I mean, all kinds of stuff. When, if you create a program and you know, it's super good and it doesn't sell very well, just change the name. It's the same program. Just change the name. Like, like we spent hours and hours and hours creating new programs, new programs didn't sell, didn't sell, didn't sell. Yeah. And, and it's like, when we, I finally made one, I can't remember what I called it. Didn't sell. I was going to say,

Starting point is 00:47:53 I want to know. I changed it. I changed the name. It was probably to hit burn, to be honest. No, I don't know. But I changed the name and then it started selling. I'm like, what the heck? Well, that's the thing. Change the name, change the messaging, how you talk about it, the things that you highlight. Because if you are good at what you do and you know that your product is good and people aren't buying it, then there's something on the front end that you should probably be looking into. Maybe it's the price. Maybe it's the name.

Starting point is 00:48:17 Maybe it's the bullet points that you have underneath it or how you talk about it on Instagram or on Facebook Live or whatever it is. That's actually how Amazon is completely run. So your description on Amazon and the bill of points that you put is like literally what makes you or breaks you on Amazon. I believe it. There was somebody on a podcast recently with Tim Ferriss, like this, these kids are like 21 years old going to Dartmouth and they make like $20

Starting point is 00:48:39 million a year right now. Cause they, they made like this back support thing cause they were like getting all like jacked. They were getting all jacked up at school, like in the, thing because they were like getting all like jacked yeah they were getting all jacked up at school like in the in the library like compute they were computer science majors and they're like oh my back hurts and like they like this other guy was next i was like my back hurts too and then like literally it turned into this ridiculous thing and they read all these books about how to like you know captivate people like

Starting point is 00:49:01 in the caption like right away so like it's incredible that that was that was everything yep it is yeah i mean it's it's so interesting just like the the slight messaging can make all the difference i actually have a program called high intensity interval bodybuilding oh cool interesting it's i call it hib instead of hit love it just created a new category and uh that's actually my most like my highest selling thing that i have right now cool and it's like people like love it because it's like its own acronym no one does it it's like it's fresh it's new it's and it is really really rad yeah that's what i do on a daily basis so i think that the name thing is very very important totally so what's the next step for you guys right now so now everything is is going well uh what do you like foresee that you need to do to like get

Starting point is 00:49:41 to the next level or if there is the next level you want to get to yeah it's a great question right now we just want to build community and make things more efficient and then improve our products for our people so uh we want to make things more efficient that was a great answer well i've thought a lot about this so uh yeah so so basically we've like dennis was saying, we've tried so many different types of programs and ways of selling them and things like that. And so we really understand who we are. We understand our voice. We understand what we want to be about and the types of things that we want to do because, you know, it'd be great, you know, to make a gazillion dollars or whatever it is. But if you hate the work that you're doing, then a, you're

Starting point is 00:50:24 going to be miserable. Even if you have the quote-unquote dream lifestyle you know so i don't think people understand how true that is though yeah it honestly like i was always like i don't think it matters if you're making that much money and then like once i started making money i was like this could for sure because there's still sometimes i'm like ah like i like i don't know like if i'm like super busy i'm not enjoying my enjoying my life, I don't even care right now. I just want to go freaking snowboarding. I want to have a day where I'm not working and I can smile when I pick my head up instead of be dead or something like that. You could totally be unhappy so, so easily.

Starting point is 00:51:00 If you don't love what you do, when I walk in my gym, that is literally my favorite part of my day because i know everybody in there that's like my family of people and like i need that yeah or like i would be like super bummed out like just my online people it's not enough i need like a physical person that's cool and that's a beautiful thing to understand and to know about yourself because i think a lot of people don't fully know what that is yet especially if they're trying to start a new business or something they're trying to figure out like, what is my ideal? And, you know, we may have had like other ideas of what we thought we wanted. And then it's like, okay, you reach it. And it's like, you know what, this doesn't feel exactly the way that we want to. So how can we adjust to really accomplish what we'd like to? So, you know, going forward in this year, we, we know that we love our

Starting point is 00:51:40 challenges. We do four big challenges every year and it, you know, has workouts, nutrition, and a community that people can interact in. And those are so much fun because we don't have a physical gym space where we can hang out with people every day. So this is a place where we can really connect with people and we can really see a difference in people's lives on a day-to-day basis. So those are so much fun. So this year we're going to be really focusing on those and making those really fun and just continuing to grow that. And then we, we spend a lot of time developing an app last year. And so that's something that we want to continue because it's really nice to, to have a subscription membership where you can just

Starting point is 00:52:14 count on that every month. And that's, you know, if you have X amount of people, you have X amount of revenue, and then all of the other ebook sales will be kind of icing on top of that, where, you know, you, you understand after you're spending X kind of icing on top of that where you know you you understand after you're spending x amount of money on facebook that you'll make back about this amount you know you can have those types of patterns but after a while it'd be nice to just uh focus on the things that we really love doing i think we touched us a little bit like off air but have you had points where like you had such a big dive on ad campaigns because like for me like i just i was telling you like i've only been doing ad campaigns now for two months and it's mainly all my ebook stuff i actually really want to get

Starting point is 00:52:49 into like some ads for the gym cool i don't really uh i've done a little bit now but their the return is not very good like because my membership's 200 hours a month i try to get people for 100 bucks for their first month that's like the ad right now and like i've only had like i don't know i spent a couple grand on that, I've only had like, I don't know, I spent a couple of grand on that. And I've only had like three people walk through the door. Sure. Yeah. I know like in person online stuff, it's.

Starting point is 00:53:09 Yeah. So for online stuff, the biggest dip that we saw was when the GD, GDPR, GDRP stuff hit, which was like the European union privacy thing. That was like a, I think like everyone I talked to that was running Facebook ads were like, yeah, we, we took a hit too. It's gone back up since then. But in terms of the gym ads, just from the people I've talked to, it's a completely different ballgame. Because you're targeting such a small group of people.

Starting point is 00:53:39 I know challenges have worked in the past. I can hook you up with a guy that I know runs a gym in Seattle gym in, uh, Seattle, Luca post of our, I think it's how you say his last name. Uh, he's, he runs vigor ground and they do super well with their Facebook ads, uh, for the gym. Um, but yeah, in terms of that, like for the ebook side, yeah, it's, it's really just about knowing your numbers, like figuring out your numbers. Cause we know a lot of people that, you know, they won't make money until like day 30, day 60, day 90, because they know once they hit that point, they're going to crush it. Obviously they have a lot of money to spend up front. Um, but if you're just getting started, like when we got, when we got started on Facebook, I mean, you can test stuff for $5 a day.

Starting point is 00:54:15 And by day three, you spent 15 bucks. You'll know if it's working or not just based on, you know, the numbers that you're seeing. Um, but yeah so in terms of like the online stuff for for us like the biggest dip was that but back like in april or whatever it was with because i always get nervous i'm like well there's only so many people out there i mean no there's billions of people um but like i'm always like wondering like am i gonna like tap out at some point because i've heard some people say that they tap out like they all of a sudden it just like kind of dies out for them but is that just the person that you have running your ads like how skillful they are or are you

Starting point is 00:54:48 actually running out of people so i mean the companies that i mean we've we've talked to people that are spending like 25 000 a day on facebook and like yes they will they will hit their their limits and then so what they do is they just change up the images they change up the they have their team i mean they have if you spending that much, you need a very large team to be able to do this, but they change up their images. They change up their ad copy. They change up their landing page. Like I said, they maybe renamed the program because people have seen it.

Starting point is 00:55:14 Um, it's just kind of like a whole makeover. Like once you get an ad that converts, it's just kind of like if, if it starts like going down, you just kind of change the image, the copy, the messaging messaging on the page like where you're sending people to things like that um but in terms of like like we were i would say right around like two thousand dollars a day is when we started seeing like higher cost per click or cost per click going up um our cost per lead was going up cost per conversion all of that but if you're if you're under that like you can you can reach a lot of people because like i know like in terms of interest targeting, interest targeting in the United States for like women, 35 to 55 last I looked for people who are interested in physical fitness was

Starting point is 00:55:55 like 16 million or something. And that's, you, you can spend a lot to reach 16 million people. Yeah. So, I mean, you've got some, there's some audiences out there that are, that are big for sure. So you guys have been, you've been doing ads now for five years. Yeah. So we started, uh, 2016 was when we really started spending a lot more. Um, but basically like 2000, early 2015 was when we started like testing things out and you've just been doing well the whole time. Yeah. So in 2016 was when we started spending more like the previously we were kind of like up and down trying to figure out, you know, what works, what doesn't. Um, cause I mean, with Facebook, if you've ever been in there, it's like, there's so many different objectives, you know, audiences to choose from ads, all that crazy. Yeah. And, and so I learned all of that in

Starting point is 00:56:40 like 2015 and then just kind of like tried to hone in on what worked best. I love that you do it. It's so rad. Yeah. I mean, it's fun's fun i it's something that i that i enjoy so for the record listeners i i pay someone to do mine but because i don't know how to do it or nor have the time but that's why i'm asking these questions right now to them for sure um yeah so in 2016 was when uh it was funny because i we had like a decent decent sized page on facebook at the time i think it was we were around like 150,000, I think. And I posted something. I checked in one of our accounts and I was like, I didn't even know we had that program.

Starting point is 00:57:10 Like where did that come from? And that was our carb cycling program or someone else's carb cycling program. Affiliate. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, man, that made money today. Like what the heck? Where did I, where'd that come from?

Starting point is 00:57:19 And what came from Facebook? And that's when we created like our own, uh, we were working on it, created our own 21 day like carb cycle program. And then we started running more traffic that started getting traction. Carb cycling quiz was after that. So again, just kind of like figured out a couple of things that worked and just slowly increased ad spend over time. A lot of it, I feel is curiosity and just trying things and testing things because sometimes the things that you throw out there that you think will crush, don't do anything. And sometimes the things that you throw out there that you think will crush don't do anything and sometimes the things that like some of the videos that perform the best are of me when i look absolutely horrendous like i have no makeup that always works out it's so weird my

Starting point is 00:57:54 dopest videos yeah are and it's so bad i can't even like it's not even measurable yeah like 10 o'clock at night doing kettlebell swings like with like i don't know like pants on like i'm like like more dressed than normal yeah and that'll get like 200 000 views on my instagram yeah but like me like professional done video probably cost like somebody thousands of dollars to make for me or something like that like 3 000 views yep that's honestly how it is on it's so funny like we we filmed like multiple professionally shot videos i'm like the script is gonna kill it like this is gonna do so well it didn't do anything i was like what the heck i literally had my iphone vertical filming her like sitting on the couch and i mean that video has like five million views oh my god and it's like she like she said like she's not wearing

Starting point is 00:58:44 makeup it was like one of those situations where i was like, here, Kelsey, just read this really quick. Do I have to really do this? I'm like, yeah, I just do it really quick. I post it and boom, there you go. So that's the thing where just not being afraid to try different things and, and not being like, okay, I have to do what's working right now. Just, it's okay to be creative and, and try out things that you think may not work but do it anyway but that's what i mean going back to like what you said the hib right like you came up with a new acronym um just like came to you and like for us like with with carb cycling carb cycling feeling hasn't even hit like mainstream like people know what it is but still like even we've been running

Starting point is 00:59:17 carb cycling ads that i mean millions of people have seen our stuff like people still are like wait what is it i'm actually doing a carb cycling challenge for my gym. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like, I feel like there's still so many people to be reached with that. Um, but like we had a lady email in, like going back to like, um, like doing what you believe in. Right. And not like just jumping to one from one thing to the next, like keto has been super hot. Right. But like, we're not going to create a keto program. Cause that's not what we we do that's not what we believe in but this lady emailed in asked for a refund on one of our programs she's like hey the program looks great like i love the updated meals i love the updated information but the foundation and the principles

Starting point is 00:59:57 are the same thing that i bought like five years ago and we're like yeah because that's what works like that's what we've been doing for five years like we've been doing doing, you know, carb cycling and real food and incorporate intermittent fasting. And like, we kind of like gave a standing ovation to that refund. We were like, this is awesome. Like that's what we want to see. Yeah. Cause that's, that's who we are. That's what we believe in. And if that is a reason why someone doesn't want to be a part of it, cause they want the next best thing, then that's great. Like go do something else, but we want to see you back here. Yeah. Cause it's like, we know what a lifestyle really is. And so, yeah, that's what. Like go do something else. But we want to teach them. We'll see you back here. Yeah, because it's like we know what a lifestyle really is. And so, yeah, that's what we believe in.

Starting point is 01:00:30 Yeah, I think everyone right now is like trying extremely hard to reinvent the wheel. And I think everybody just looks dumb. Like I look at my Instagram, I'm like, you look dumb. Like I just keep swiping. I'm just like, what is happening right now? There's like someone doing like a backflip, one-legged freaking pistol squat on a bose ball and i'm like and and and that's like the the new program you know what i mean like it's like i mean it's not that ridiculous but it's really really ridiculous and people are trying to create their own diets that like i mean i want to make

Starting point is 01:01:00 fun of the carnivore diet because it's just like all meat all the time but like i mean i've done that before so i can't make fun of it um but like you know i mean like now they're they're trying to call it like different names it's already something that's been out and then like now they're trying to compare us to like the caveman and all that stuff which i agree but like we haven't been caveman in a long time um and and you need to be socially appropriate because like once you begin to be weird is when you've literally just now you're weird, you're the weird person you can't go out, you can't do anything

Starting point is 01:01:31 you can't have fun, don't call him because he sucks all of that is a real thing I remember when I was the most strict with my diet I had the least amount of friends and I'm not saying you need to be a little unhealthy to have friends, but like you should be like just a little bit more normal. Just build it in.

Starting point is 01:01:49 Yeah. And you can still be normal anywhere. That's the thing. Like I can order a salad like anywhere I go. Right. But like is the lettuce from like, you know, Jesus's backyard? I don't know. It may be.

Starting point is 01:01:59 It better be. It's okay. It's okay. Like if I eat the lettuce, that is not grown from like the freshest soil in the land. Totally. Yeah. I hear that.

Starting point is 01:02:08 So, all right. So now you're just want to build the program to be better. Is there anything out there right now that you think is like a great platform that like you think is going to be either like the new Instagram of platforms or like you do you just like apps on phones right now or you like want to optimize your website or anything special that you're looking into? So we're not really looking into any new apps to, to start posting on me where we do Instagram,

Starting point is 01:02:34 Facebook, YouTube. So I think just improving is Instagram doing well for you guys now. Cause I know that in the beginning I remember cause I'm friends with Rachel who is one of your employees and I've known her, I think since she started working with you guys um and I remember her telling me about you guys because I was looking into starting all these things and she was like they're like mainly just on Facebook and I was like what I was like have you told them to go to Instagram yeah like I

Starting point is 01:02:59 didn't even know you guys yet and I was like they need to be on Instagram like ASAP totally but uh has Instagram been converting pretty well for you guys now? Yeah. I mean, I mean, Facebook is, I think we're, yeah, it's still like, yeah. Cause I mean our, our pages, you know, I think it's close to 800,000 people now. And so a lot of our stuff, I mean, we can send a couple thousand clicks from a organic post on, on Facebook going directly to an article or a sales page or, you know, something like that. So you're shooting out over a million emails. Yeah, we send about 6 million emails a month.

Starting point is 01:03:33 Holy crap. How much are you sending in one shot? Oh, because you're doing daily emails. Yeah, daily emails, so whatever that is. A couple hundred thousand people on a click. Yeah, so Facebook is big in terms like driving traffic, especially even organically. Instagram is a different, you know, it's a different audience. It's, they want to be more personal.

Starting point is 01:03:53 And so that's why we're trying to put more focus around like stories and things like, especially as the Instagram algorithm has changed. You know, doing more stories, you get more interaction, you get more, you know, questions from people. My stories are insane. I bet. They do very, very well. I'm so surprised. I actually have this one right now. It's like an ongoing – it's like a nonfiction novel.

Starting point is 01:04:15 It's like me in Whole Foods. And I'm trying to find my wife in Whole Foods. So I'm going down every aisle and I'm always like, she's not here. And it'll keep going on and on and on and on. And I've been doing this for months now. And I have one where I'm down on my knee waiting for my wife to walk up in the aisle. And it's like every girl that walks by, I'm like, it's hysterical. And people are dying.

Starting point is 01:04:37 And I get the craziest amount of views. Yes. And I'll do different filters and I'll be like an old lady or I'll be like an old man or something on my knee in the aisle it's so funny but the thing is that people love stories yeah and that's why uh i mean we know we know someone who does really well with with stories and it's always that they're always like like you're basically leaving people on the edge of like wanting more and then it's your true personality yeah totally you're not filtered you're you're not posing for the camera. I mean, people do, like, really professional videos and throw them in there.

Starting point is 01:05:08 And I do all the time. Yep. But I think people love the realness factor, like, a lot. And I love that you can do the swipe up now, too. Because now if you want to direct them somewhere, you can go straight to it. But, yeah, my stories, like, an average post for me is probably, like, 5,000-ish likes. Like, my stories will get, like, 20,000 views. That's amazing.

Starting point is 01:05:28 That's really good. Which is super good. Yeah. I think that's, like, way better than, way better conversion. And if you think about, like, how easy the swipe up is for people to see your stuff instead of, like, in a post where it's like, hey, go to the link in the profile. Right. It's like, are people really going to take the time to, you know, click that and then go to the profile? It's, like, probably not. I feel like most of the time profile link is, is people visit your profile and they're

Starting point is 01:05:48 on there to check, check you out and see, see what you're about. Maybe they found you on like the popular page or the explore page. And then they're like, Oh, website, boom, you know, check that out. Whereas like a story. And that's the other thing with stories too. Like we're trying to do more of them. And it's probably why you get so many views is because when you get a new follower, like if you've ever followed someone, what's the very first thing you see watch their story their story like next

Starting point is 01:06:07 time you sign on their stories right there and then if you like it you always tune in totally i mean if you're on down on one knee and whole foods people are like what's going on oh there's so many girls that are like what time you're gonna be there like which aisle oh they're ready for you it's so it's so funny and it keeps going it's hilarious but um for me personally i've been in this space and i've talked to so many people ceos like this podcast has brought me in in front of just some amazing people um and personally what i've kind of picked up on what i think is going to be the next thing is i think in some shape or form youtube YouTube is going to take over everything. I think. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:47 I'm not sure when or how or whatever. I have heard that they're going to start doing like a story section. Yeah. Interesting. Or maybe like a posting type of a deal. Yeah. But they're just generating so much massive amounts of income right now from like even young kids that are doing like, I don't know. I've never seen this, but I heard that there's like these group of kids right now and they have like pop-up like fight clubs basically or something and like

Starting point is 01:07:11 it'll be thousands of people going to an area and he just drops like five thousand dollars down and he's like all right like the first two people to just like get after it you know like win five grand and then so they they pick people out of the crowd and they just fight like crazy and they're getting millions of views and these kids are like they're like 20 years old and they're all driving around like lamborghinis and stuff and it's like you could never get that type of engagement on instagram no or like the story of that or something like that but um yeah like there's just small things like that that are just exploding on youtube and they're getting hundreds of thousands of dollars a month off of, like, ads and such like that.

Starting point is 01:07:48 And everybody I know who's huge on YouTube, I mean, on Instagram, I have several friends that are, like, in the millions of followers, including Paige Hathaway. And she's like, YouTube is the thing, is the future. That's cool. So if you guys haven't started a YouTube, you guys have one? We do. Yeah. I mean, we started it last year, and we posted a video every day for a year wow yeah so just like to build up the base and like it did yeah i mean we hit i think we're just organically at like 20 000 followers now and

Starting point is 01:08:16 i mean for for what we've used it for it's been great yeah um i do feel like we can do a lot better on youtube because i mean the people that do really well, their audience is like, so they love them. Yeah. Like I know a lot of people in the fitness space as well. I think, you know, Paige Hathaway, uh, uh, Greg O'Gallagher from Kino body does a great job and all of their fans. Have you met him? Uh, no, I have not.

Starting point is 01:08:39 I'm so intrigued by him. Yeah. Cause I, I, I just, i feel like i don't like him he's a great guy but he crushes in marketing yeah he does and i i just feel i feel like he's very douchey because he'll he'll like say something and walk into like his like ridiculous palace thing but that's his thing at the same time you know that it is totally why people are attracted or drawn to him if you look at his comments there's hundreds of comments and it's all hate. But you know they all bought his stuff because they hate him so much.

Starting point is 01:09:09 They're like, I wonder what I look like. So I always appreciate haters all the time. For sure. I think it was Sam Ovens, if you follow him at all, he's like, if 50% of your comments are not hate, you're doing something wrong. You need to have those haters out there. I totally think that's probably correct. Well, yeah, it's like you can be about something then. If you believe in something, somebody you need to have those haters i totally think that's probably correct well yeah it's like you can be about something then you know if you believe in

Starting point is 01:09:27 something somebody's gonna disagree with you so yeah he pops up everywhere though the keno body guy oh yeah i mean i can't imagine how much money that guy spends an ad it has to be insane because he's like the only person i could even think of that i've seen yeah because he pops up so much i've just i mean just from watching some of the stuff some of his stuff like his his marketing team i know does like a crazy job just in terms of, you know, if you land on something of his, you're going to see him within like two minutes on some other website. Yeah. But, yeah, going back to like, I mean. He's only selling one thing, too, I think.

Starting point is 01:09:56 Yeah. He sends people to like the quiz, going back to the quiz. And then he has like different programs based on answers. Oh, I thought he just had one program. Yeah. But, yeah. There's a couple. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:05 It's insane how much I see. Because I think the biggest thing that bothered me is I was always like, he doesn't look that good. Like, for how much shit-talking he's doing, I'm like, you don't look that good. He's like, you want to be shredded like Brad Pitt from FICO? I'm like, do you want to be shredded like Brad Pitt from FICO?

Starting point is 01:10:19 Because right now you look like Brad Pitt in, like, I don't know, the vampire movie. What's that called? I don't know, the vampire movie. What's that called? I don't know. I don't even remember. Benjamin Button. Oh, my goodness.

Starting point is 01:10:31 That's not the vampire movie. Interview with the vampire. I was thinking of it. I'll go with Benjamin Button. Anyway, I don't know. I just always thought that he was just like a little more confident than he needed to be. But I mean, that confidence. It's working for him, man.

Starting point is 01:10:44 Confidence sells. I've definitely dated girls that are way hotter than I should have ever be. But I mean, that confidence. It's working for him, man. Confidence sells. I've definitely dated girls that are way hotter than I should have ever dated. But that's another podcast. We could do a whole segment on that. I'll be at Whole Foods aisle seven. Yep. I was telling you some weird things pop up on the podcast. That's one of them.

Starting point is 01:11:00 I love it. What happened just now? I blacked out. We were talking about YouTube. Yeah. And then Greg. I love it. What happened just now? I blacked out. We were talking about YouTube. Yes, YouTube. So YouTube, I think, is going to be the new platform for everybody. I think a lot of people are going to be trying to transfer over to that. You can post longer videos.

Starting point is 01:11:17 There's different ads right now and different companies that are giving people crazy money. So let's say right now this was being videoed, and you took a sip of Zevia. Zevia would give you like two grand for taking that drink during the video, not saying anything about it, just the visual of you drinking it. Yeah, just the placement. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to do anything special. Paige was telling me she made like 11 grand last month on her YouTube.

Starting point is 01:11:44 She has 100,000 followers too on YouTube it's not a lot she has 4.5 million on Instagram which shows you like the conversion to YouTube it's different it's hard I've heard it's the hardest one to get people to subscribe but she was saying though she's making thousands of dollars just like just having products

Starting point is 01:12:00 in there like very random products she'll wake up and use a sonic toothbrush. That's part of the video. It's part of her daily routine. She's getting paid just to have the toothbrush and not say anything about it at all. So YouTube is very interesting right now.

Starting point is 01:12:13 I mean, they are turning into TV, essentially, for especially the younger generations. That's what it's really turning into. I think that's pretty much what it is now. I'd much rather go to a YouTube video than anything else. Totally. I love the day and age that we live in. That's so cool. You can create your own

Starting point is 01:12:27 TV show. You can create the life that you want and we have the accessibility to do that. It's super cool. You can become a movie star if you really want to. That is insane. I actually never thought of it that way. I did say that I was slightly like Anchorman being on this podcast which is very cool too.

Starting point is 01:12:42 You can make your own podcast very easily. Put a burgundy suit on, and there you go. Wait, you are wearing the burgundy suit. I know, you're looking really good. The audience can't see you, but that's what he's wearing. I actually do have a pair of burgundy pants in my car, no lie. That's a real story. But if a dog like Banks ran by,

Starting point is 01:12:57 we would totally lose Kelsey off the show. That's true. We'd be gone. So actually next month, I actually am hiring a guy to come out three days a week I'm going to make YouTube videos that's awesome

Starting point is 01:13:07 that's going to be my next move I'm excited about it that'd be great you have a fun personality I think that it will work yeah and the vibe in the gym

Starting point is 01:13:15 is very interesting you guys got to come check it out one of these days yeah it's a very like it's a real TV type of a vibe

Starting point is 01:13:22 cool like I feel like it needs to be on a show and we're going to try to capture that for sure. So, um, besides all of this fitness stuff, like what do you guys like to do for fun?

Starting point is 01:13:34 Oh, a lot of things. Cause I know that you guys have been Iceland. Yeah. I don't know where else. I know you went to Europe now. Yeah. Uh,

Starting point is 01:13:38 anywhere else crazy or fun things you guys like to do? Anyone into like hang gliding for any weird reason or anything? Not hang gliding, but we do love traveling. Yeah, we love to travel, so we've gone to a few places. So we've gone to Iceland a few times. We went to Japan last year. Ooh, that's on my list.

Starting point is 01:13:53 It's so fun. It's so cool. You'll love it. Great food. Favorite things you saw? The food. Yeah, just the food. Really, huh?

Starting point is 01:14:00 Just looking at the food. Everyone talks about that. Yeah. I mean, it's really interesting. I loved the Harajuku neighborhood. That was just really cool. Is that where that orange thing is that you walk under? Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:10 It's not right there, but it's kind of close by. Okay. It's near there. Yeah. You can get some super cool photos there. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And was it Shinjuku?

Starting point is 01:14:18 The one that was like all of the arcades. I mean, it's like... Times Square. Times Square. Like times a gazillion it's insane this is in tokyo i assume yeah you need to go to like one of those float sensory deprivation spas after because it's just sensory overload i mean it's super cool but afterwards you're just like oh my gosh way too much stimulation but it's definitely worth going to it's amazing i want

Starting point is 01:14:40 to climb out fuji really bad you should do that so i usually i travel to climb mountains usually or to snowboard or something like that so that's's like on my list of, there's a hotel that our, our photographer from Tokyo who, who we did a photo shoot with, he just stayed there and he like woke up and it's just like this huge glass pane, uh, or this, yeah, the glass window and then a pool inside. And he's just looking out and you can see Mount Fuji just like, Oh, it's so cool. I'll send you the photo and you can, you can say that when you go. Yeah. Oh, that's cool.

Starting point is 01:15:07 I have a lot of friends that get like free vacations just off their Instagrams. They'll be like, I'll post that I'm here or whatever. And I'm like, damn, that's a really good idea. It is. Yeah. I mean, I mean, other than traveling, we love food and coffee. That's like what we like doing. I mean, I was, I mean, we eat out quite a bit in Portland just because it's such a great

Starting point is 01:15:24 food scene. And it is insane. Yeah. And then when we travel, it's like, what coffee shop are we going to? What food spot are we going to? We try not to waste a meal. We want really good food. Any particular sports you guys are into now?

Starting point is 01:15:39 Or do you guys still play basketball? We don't play really, but we love basketball. We go to a lot of blazer games which is super fun so we love watching basketball yeah i wouldn't say blazers is our team but it kind of is now because we've been to so many games this year but yeah that's like the one sport that we watch pretty consistently is nba basketball awesome yeah um what about kids i feel like when you're in the nutrition space like this and you're kind of cool on instagram i feel like and there's a female involved at any point i feel like the baby has to happen at some point.

Starting point is 01:16:08 Because then you have to do postpartum, yeah, all this partum stuff. Right. Is that in the plans? Well, we have a little dachshund, so she's kind of our kid. Okay. Okay. All right. All right.

Starting point is 01:16:17 All right. I could have guessed you had a dog. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Who would have thought? Yeah. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:16:23 I mean, we may someday. It's not something that we're currently planning on, but it's, you know, perhaps in the future. We're not thinking about it right now. We love the life that we're living and being able to hang out together and travel and do a business. How old are you guys right now? I just turned 30 in October. 31. 31. I'm 32. 30, 30, 31. Love it. I like it. Yeah, it's an amazing time right now. I feel like everyone gets nervous to. 30, 30, 31. Love it. I like it. Yeah, it's an amazing time right now.

Starting point is 01:16:49 I feel like everyone gets nervous to turn 30, and I think it's a great time. I've been thoroughly enjoyed it. Yeah, it's been good. I mean, I feel like a lot of people, I mean, they told you, too, whenever you turn 30, it's like, oh, it's downhill. And I was like, no, not really. No, I really feel like it's just starting. I feel for you it was, because you got that job, and you had to 8 to 5. But now it's like, I like the eighth i mean an eight

Starting point is 01:17:05 to five job now seems so far off yeah i can't imagine like i wonder what kids are thinking right now like and when they're in school like if they want a job that has something like that or if they all want to be on social media or something like that i wonder what the normal is yeah i don't know that's i mean that's an interesting question in the last five years even you know it's changed so much it it's kind of cool that I bet there is a lot more creativity in thinking about, okay, what do I want to do? What could I do? And, you know, kids starting super young with their, I mean, I maybe wouldn't recommend Fight Club YouTube channels. But, hey, anything's a possibility.

Starting point is 01:17:37 I mean, even just income. I remember just being like, I used to dream about like making $100,000 a year. Yeah. You know what I mean? And now you ask a kid, like, you know, what do like i'll make a hundred thousand dollars a month and i'm like damn like get after it i didn't know that was a thing when i was your age bro i think it is different though but especially with all the remote work like a lot of companies you can work from anywhere um you know we know a lot of people that work for i mean in portland nike's there and

Starting point is 01:18:01 obviously they have the campus and things like that but a lot of times it's like yeah we're just working from home and i so i think a lot of people are, are seeing that as possibilities. And I think that's why I feel like the younger generation does like to travel more, just go out and yeah. And just work from their laptop. But I think that's the ultimate dream is what people think. I think it is. I love that I'm outside right now, working right now. It's the greatest feeling ever. For sure. It is. It's fun. It's really, really cool. All right. Well, um, where can everybody find you guys right now? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:28 So we have Instagram. We have a website. Yep. We have Facebook. Yep. We have a YouTube. We do. Let's just go ahead and narrow those all down.

Starting point is 01:18:36 Yeah. Okay. So our main website is hitburden.com. And so you can find us a lot of different places across the internet. But if you just go there, you'll be able to find all of our main products. It's got like all your stuff on there? Yeah. Yep.

Starting point is 01:18:48 All right. And then, yeah. And our app is our newest thing. And that's, I mean, we personally just have, there's a couple hundred like follow along workouts. On demand. Yeah, on demand. And if you just search HipBurn in the app store or in the Google Play, I think it is. Yeah, you have an iPhone.

Starting point is 01:19:04 Yeah. You probably don't know what that is. Google Play. I don't think I do. Is that an Android thing? Yes. All those Android users out there. Do you have an Android?

Starting point is 01:19:11 No, iPhone. iPhone. Okay, right on. We're all iPhones. Just making sure. But if you have an Android, it's available for you too. Side note, I feel bad for you. Those green text messages.

Starting point is 01:19:24 Oh, yeah. messages keep coming through. Yeah. And then, um, our Instagram is just our name, hip burn, uh, H I I T B U R N. Um, same thing on Facebook to slash hip burn. And then, um, I have a personal, uh, brand page called the daily Kelsey. And so I talk a lot about mindset and health and fitness on there as well. Is that the one that I've messaged on? Yes. Okay. Just making sure. Is there another Kelsey too or no? Is that it? Well, yeah, that's really the only one.

Starting point is 01:19:50 Because some people have like a personal, personal one and then they have like a personal, personal, personal one. Yeah. Yeah. That is actually true. That's where I just post stuff that is just like me and my dog and my family and like all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Of course the dog is there. She's in many places though.

Starting point is 01:20:04 She's on HitBurn too. You can't miss her. Yeah. And then do you dog is there. She's in many places, though. She's on HipRun, too. She's everywhere. You can't miss her. Yeah. And then do you have any other social media links that you want to shout out? No, just HipRun. I mean, I'm not super active on my Instagram, just Denheen, if you want to follow that. No, I'm always on Facebook, though, on our page since I run that, and on Instagram as well.

Starting point is 01:20:23 So I think it's great you guys talked about the story that you guys, you know, eventually led you to where you guys are at now. You guys have a really great business, and you guys have obviously some great tips for everybody. When people go to your website and they do search for HitBurn, what type of program is they going to be looking for? What is like your specialty? Yeah, so we specialize in interval training.

Starting point is 01:20:42 So we have a couple different interval training programs. So we have one called HitBurn Method that is a 12-week guide around interval training. And then we also have our Strong by Hip Burn program, which also includes weight training with hip finishers. And so that's a really fun one. We love doing that as well. On the nutrition side, we do carb cycling. And then that's like the base of what we teach is carb cycling real food. And then we have an intermittent fasting program as well where we kind of teach the principles of that and how

Starting point is 01:21:08 people can incorporate that into their lifestyle we call that lean fast um that's cool you call it lean fast too fast yeah interesting yeah i like the name change thank you that's the name of that and and they do intertwine a little bit i think carb cycling and for sure i mean we basically use both of those as strategies to teach people how to eat intuitively. So, yeah, like eating as a lifestyle and using these simple kind of guidelines as a way to understand how to feel your body well and how to feel energized and also get the results that you want. That's good stuff.

Starting point is 01:21:37 So that's your bread and butter right there. That's what we do. All right, guys. Well, it's been great having you guys on the show. Thank you for having us. This has been awesome. We also got a tan at the same time. Right? Well, I probably got red, but that's fine. Right on great having you guys on the show thank you for having us it's been awesome we also got a tan at the same time

Starting point is 01:21:45 right well I probably got red but that's fine right on did you guys drink your coffee have C's all right time to finish it up

Starting point is 01:21:52 all right guys thank you so much for listening there's so many podcasts in the world but you guys decided to listen to me Real Chalk

Starting point is 01:21:59 on the Barbell Chalk channel I will see you guys next Tuesday and I will be in I will be in Miami and then I'll be in the Bahamas so if you guys next tuesday and i will be in i will be in miami um and then i'll be in the bahamas so if you guys want to know who i should talk to or if you guys have a recommendation on who you'd like to talk what is wrong with me right now i'm gonna be on a boat with like rich froning josh bridges brooke wells look it up wad on the waves.com everybody in the industry of

Starting point is 01:22:23 crossfit will be there I will be there whoever you want to listen to DM me or write me a message ryan at crossfitchalk.com and I'll get them on the show all right guys see you later

Barbell Shrugged - Business Strategy and Development with Dennis and Kelsey of HIITBurn — Real Chalk #57

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