Barbell Shrugged - Certifications: Do You Need Them, Which Ones Are The Best, and How Do You Use Them Once You Get The Piece Of Paper w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash- Barbell Shrugged #497

Episode Date: August 24, 2020

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   Why do you need to get a training certification? What options are available for certification Do you actually need to get a certification What are the next steps after certifications to become a trainer Do Certifications make you smart? What are the drawbacks of certifications   Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa ———————————————— Please Support Our Sponsors   Shadow Creative Studios - Save $200 + Free Consult to start you podcast using code” “Shrugged” at podcast.shadowstud.io   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   www.masszymes.com/shruggedfree  - for FREE bottle of BiOptimizers Masszymes   Purchase our favorite Supplements here and use code “Shrugged” to save 20% on your order: https://bit.ly/2K2Qlq4

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, one of the most asked questions by trainers or aspiring trainers or just people that want to learn more is what is the best certification to go get so you can either become a fitness professional, get certifications, as well as some of the certifications you might not need, or ways that you can go about increasing your education like Barbell Shrugged without actually going and paying all the money to get certified in anything. But before we get started, I want to remind you that High Intensity Hypertrophy is on sale right now, 50% off. Get over to barbellshrug.com forward slash store. That is where you are going to get a monthly program from us as well as bonuses all over the place.

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Save your 20%. Get the pumpkin spice. Get the green. Get the red. Get the gold. The juices red, get the gold, the juices. You need your micros, vitamins and minerals to keep you healthy. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. Let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. My name is Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we are talking about what certifications you need. I think between all of us, we have a whole slew of training certifications. And I think one of the coolest parts, you always take a little bit away from all of them, but

kind of starting at the highest level, the things that are going to get you the biggest bang for your buck. And then backing down to some of the specialty certifications that we have gotten. And just a lot of the information that you can take from them, use, and maybe some of the stuff that you can throw out that won't actually apply to your coaching career. Tuck, where did you start your training certifications? What was your very first one that you got? Well, I was super fortunate that I had a strength coach since I was about 14 or 15. And he was big into going to conferences and seminars and all that.

So I was kind of like brought up, so to speak, with a coach that really emphasized all the continuing education that I could do, plus reading books and all that, which that put me on the track that I'm on today to enter this. And so he actually, he would fly for work. He worked for a hill of Packard and he would fly to Asia like once a month for work. And so he had, he had a ton of frequent flyer miles. And so he would, he would go to strength coaching conferences and he would just, he would just ask me if I wanted to go with him and I would, I would fly around and go to

those conferences with him. So I went, I went to. So I started going to NSCA national conferences when I was in my teens. And then it just made sense at that point to do NSCA CPT and to do the CSCS once I – you need to have a college degree to do CSCS. So I had to wait until the end of my senior year to go take that test. And then once I graduated, then I was CSCS certified, which happened, you know, 2005, 2006. So I kind of started in the NSCA world, which was a great place to start. You know, CSCS is, you know, still to this day, highly respected, and it's kind of the gold standard. You know, there's pros and cons to how the testing is done. I've heard people complain, you know, multiple choice

tests or just watching videos is not actually coaching people. So it's hard to how the testing is done. I've heard people complain, you know, multiple choice tests or just watching videos is not actually coaching people. So it's hard to be the gold standard when you're, there's no practical side to it, but maybe, maybe some of that's changed. I actually have really looked into it in the, in recent years, but yeah, I started in the NSCA world and then kind of, kind of went from there. Bash, where'd you start yours? Which one, what was the first one you got?

NSCA back in 1999. And then I kind of let it slip because I just didn't feel like I needed it. So now I'm retaking it. Here's like, what is this, 20 years, 21 years later. Ooh, yeah, you're in the middle of it right now. Are you learning things? Do you feel like you read it and you're like, oh, shit, I forgot that. That's like a very basic thing that I just took for granted.

I think it's just helping me remember things. I don i just took for granted i think i'm it's just helping me remember things i don't know if i'm learning as much as it's a big review so far you know but i mean it's good it's like bringing back everything i've learned you know because it's going through all the systems and so then you know you're like oh yeah oh yeah so it's like a very small review of all the different organ systems at first. Yeah. And then the biomechanics are pretty good. So, yeah, I guess maybe I'm learning a little bit. But mainly it's a review.

I like it. See, that's the part. I remember I went and got my CSCS. I entered this whole world only because CrossFit existed. So anything outside of CrossFit, like, I just really wasn't interested in. I didn't even – how about this? Even worse, I didn't even, how about this even worse? I didn't even know it existed. I just lifted weights cause it was fun with my friends.

And then CrossFit showed up and I was only interested in being an athlete. And in order to open a gym, they told me that I had to go, uh, get my level one. So I never even went to go get the CScs which in hindsight i really wish i had because of what you're talking about the the biomechanics side of it um like the systems all of that i learned and i wouldn't even say i i like am even remotely an expert on or you know, I wish that part I was much more solid in, even in my current knowledge. Just because at the time, I didn't need it to open a gym. And I just wanted to start coaching people and start training. And CrossFit gave us the avenue that we didn't have to do it.

We just had to go to the level one. Do you feel like CrossFit, or maybe not. Have you done the CrossFit level one? No, I have not. You haven't? I have not. Nice. We owned a CrossFit for a while.

Yeah. I didn't do that, no. It would be interesting to talk about that in a little bit. The CSCS, though, really is like the gold standard. You have to really have like a really good understanding of kind of of the exercise phys biomechanics side of things um physics yeah all three uh that's probably the most complete especially in comparing it to where i got my start in the crossfit level one space um none of that stuff was needed to pass the level one in CrossFit. It was kind of like methodology and some movement. I say some movement.

Day one is a lot of theory and understanding what CrossFit is. Day two is a lot more movement, which is kind of where I think the seminar breaks down. But yeah, how does the CSCS get laid out? What's kind of the studying parameters? And do you think coaches all need to start in that place to really have a good grasp on coaching people? I always say that if they're not going to, you know, say that you're not going to major

in like exercise science or something like that. I would say, yeah, because you need to know the basics of science so you don't get, you know, fooled. I see a lot of science so you don't get fooled. I see a lot of people making decisions they wouldn't make if they just knew the basics of energy systems, for example. If everyone knew the science behind the anaerobic systems, then they would know, well, this is completely crazy. This is actually smart. Because you have so much information on internet which is a good thing obviously but it's also a bad thing so they could like start to you

know weed through the garbage and keep the good that would be the main thing i would say yeah um doug when you i guess started coaching people do you feel like actually having a going to a seminar or having a certification makes a big difference in being a coach I mean the answer is yes and no I know that's why I asked it having having certifications doesn't necessarily mean anything but it doesn't mean nothing at the same time like if you have a single certification say you're gonna hire somebody you look at their resume and they have one personal training certification. You go, okay, well, this person, you know, they've done something, I guess. But if they have like a whole slew of them, if they're, you know, CrossFit level one, level two, and they have the CSCS and their persistent nutrition, and they have like a kettlebell certification and maybe like a crossfit weightlifting certification or whatever it's like if they said there's like this big long

list and at least at that point you can you can say okay this person is like passionate about learning and getting better and so they're that probably speaks to how they're going to operate you know in the years moving forward they're going to continue to want to get better because they're really interested in the topic they're not just like well i don't want i don to want to get better because they're really interested in the topic. They're not just like, well, I don't want to get a real job, so I'm going to be a personal trainer. That type of thing where this just seems easy and there's no barriers to entry. So yeah, I think looking at kind of the quantity people have can be effective in some ways of judging whether someone's truly truly interested in the in the field but yeah in and of itself getting a certification doesn't mean anything but it can

be something to anchor some study habits on like if you are signed up to do cscs this summer then yeah man now you're going to go read and research and and do the work to pass that test if it's a hard test which you you need to you need to have studied to pass the CSCS. Yeah. But at the same time, in order to take the CSCS, you have to have a four-year degree in exercise physiology or something related to the field. So many parts of it, hopefully at that point, are pretty easy for you

if you have years of study. Is that really a minimum buy-in to getting a CSCS? You have to have a degree? I don't think so, man. I think it's just a degree. Yeah, I think that's what they're moving towards. Oh, just any degree versus a specific? Any degree, yeah.

I got you. Yeah, because you have a lot of people in the strength and conditioning world who do not major in exercise science, which is, I mean, boy, when I say this, people get so mad. I do believe you need that background because, once again, for the same reason, the CSCS is a good thing. Having at least four years of understanding the science of exercise, I think you need that before you start training world-class athletes.

If you're going to be a strength coach at Wake Forest, you need to know what you're doing. More than just, well, I've been in the gym. Or I know somebody was hired because they were hired at a major university because they had been a good football player. I mean, that doesn't matter. You might suck. There's a good chance that person sucks as a coach. So, like, yeah, I do, which is coming though.

Like the next step for the CSCS is like, is making you have to major in exercise science or something of the sorts. Mash, you would have been so bothered by me a decade ago when I opened my gym. Woo! Because I was that guy. I was like, man, this is the thing I love.

I just want people to do it with me. How do I do it and not have to go back to work? It depends as long as you're moving correctly. I would say as long as – I think if people use common sense, like CrossFit, it definitely does not bother me because it helped all of us. Everyone on this show right now helped us a ton. So I can't say it bothers me, but, like, I would say this. It's like when I see a CrossFit coach, you know,

taking a 40-year-old man who's been at a desk for all his whole working career and they have him doing snatches in a workout, then I'm like, you know, that bothers me because I'm just like, you obviously haven't thought this through, man. Like, no, if you think about the guys coming to me because he wants to be healthy. He's probably not coming to you because he loves CrossFit. You just heard that CrossFit will help you get healthy. CrossFit's good for you. He goes to you as the expert, and then you have him do this,

and then his shoulder's hurting, and he's like, I wonder why my shoulder's hurting. And the coach did that. So that bothers me. It bothers me just like I just wish that people would understand to keep learning and to keep educating themselves. Yeah, anytime someone asks what certification they should get to start coaching people, my answer is always – it always comes back to you're learning a way of thinking the reason i kind of wish i had taken the cscs is because that way of thinking is very important to right everyone great point like to go and learn exercise phys is very important the physics side of it the

movement mechanic side of it all that stuff is very important no matter what methodology you're teaching. When I went and did the CrossFit level one, I was specifically interested and I was only really interested in it because I wanted to open a CrossFit specific gym to teaching the CrossFit methodology. And at the time, there was nobody else teaching CrossFit really anywhere in the country or world for that matter. And you're kind of like – you're in a way just learning the sales pitch for when somebody comes into the gym to know exactly what to say to them to get them to sign up for a membership. So I would imagine if you're doing the CSCS, you probably need to back that down when you're speaking to your first client. Sure. Absolutely. And the thing that made CrossFit so easy and they made it so digestible from the certification side

is when somebody walked in, you could break down what is CrossFit when they go, what is this? So easily just by going to that seminar and your sales pitch was like done. It's like, oh, well, it's constantly varied functional movements done at high intensity. And because of that, we're going to be super healthy. And it's like everything that goes along with it. So going to the CrossFit level one, you just learned – you didn't learn, you didn't learn about the science behind exercise. You didn't learn about energy systems. You didn't learn about any of that stuff. But what you learned was a methodology to teach somebody how to be healthier. And they laid out every single step along the way. If you went to that seminar and thought about it in that

way, they lay out every single piece of that puzzle to make that person a client and then how to do the nine foundational movements. And you can run a training business by just preaching that seminar. I imagine, and I don't know because I haven't done the CSCS, but if you take the CSCS, you probably don't get much of that information. You probably walk out of there going, okay, now I understand the body, but I don't understand humans. They teach, I mean,

part of it is teaching how to lay out a program, you know, a program. So you do know a little bit, but like that's okay. So that's the downside of the cs is no practical yeah so you don't actually go train anybody or coach anybody whereas with usa weightlifting that cert to me is i think i'm biased obviously but that cert to me is the creme de la creme of like practicality yeah they teach you know the very each step of teaching like

not only the snatch and clean and the jerk but squatting pulling when you leave there you could really teach almost any movement in any class and so uh and they teach some science not like they not like cscs but but they teach enough science to where that's cool. But if there was a cert, which is what I'm trying to do, that would put the science with the practical. So if you combine CSCS with USA Way, you have a perfect cert. And then if we went one step past that, if then somebody was offered a mentorship or apprenticeship, then you change our industry. And so my goal before I die is to like, see that that's the way you have to go is you have to go, you know, like, like something like a CSCS,

you have to stay away from the combined into an apprenticeship into now do what you want. Like it would just, you see so much stuff on the internet that makes you cringe. It's like, you know, especially when youth athletes and you see you're like, you're going to hurt this young person. And like that makes me mad. That makes me mad. And so tell the people that's what you're doing with Strength University. Yeah, that's the goal is to like we create a university.

So it's like a video curriculum of like everything you need to know to be a coach. Even some practical, you know, it shows you the practical steps, but then our next thing is to add in more of a, you know, here's, let's take this test. And then you have to do an apprenticeship with, you know, somebody who would be qualified for up to a year and then move on. And they get paid. I don't want any free, you know, like the thing that the csca well the strength coach world is known for is like you know poverty like wages and like basically enslaving

people like you know like they go work for a coach for a year for free and they get treated like you know crap and then then they might get lucky and get the job or they might not and then they're now they just spent a year of their life for nothing. So like that goes to do with that too. But yeah, friendship is a good idea. I think. Yeah. I don't think that many people really go into gyms looking for a mentorship.

Like I think that's one thing that I think the CrossFit world kind of, you know, it made it very easy for me to open a gym and start training people right away. I mean, so easy that my first marketing tactic was soap on the window saying, we open in 30 days. I'll train you for free.

Let's go. And we had 200 people show up in 30 days. It was fantastic. That is fantastic. But I think that the CSCS, when I think about those two, in a way, CrossFit was like so perfect for me at the time because I was so not an academic person. And when I look at those two certs, like the CSCS is so academic. It feels academic. It's like rooted in academics. And that just is so not

the way, especially a decade ago, the way that my brain was operating on training. I just wanted to go train. And I just needed a cert that checked the box that said, you can look at movement patterns and make people better. And CrossFit made it so simple. But yeah, the USAW one I thought was a really really uh what up dog the dog made it into the zoom call today um uh i really enjoyed the usa w cert um and it hit me like at the perfect time too because i was i was really struggling with some of the olympic lifts specifically like uh the jerk there was such an i had so many imbalances that i just never

understood why they existed like the ability to clean 300 pounds and only jerk 255 for like a year and a half was one of the most frustrating times in my entire lifting career so it's just like i i don't ever need to clean i'm just stuck at these numbers and then going to that cert and having one of the top like weightlifting coaches in the country which is so cool that usaw has you guys come out and do it um who are like relatable coaches like that's that's one thing that's super important about like who you choose to go learn from, specifically at USA Weightlifting.

It's like finding a coach that you really want to learn from because then you're going to be so engaged at that seminar or at that certification for the two days that you're just stoked to have. Basically, you're learning how to do the lifts, and you're learning how to coach the lifts, but you're also having somebody with a really really good eye and tons of experience come in and watch you lift and and that's kind of like one of the most practical easiest ways to get better at coaching too is just having somebody

come in and break down because until you know you like you don't know what you don't know until you get in there and have somebody actually break down all of the bad patterns that you have. Then you can start to go in and diagnose other people so much easier because you see the flaws in yourself. And then you look around the gym and now everybody's got the same thing. And that was one of the best parts about the USA weightlifting one was that I just had such a high-level coach in the room to teach weightlifting. Like, it's just, it was, I want to say I got my USA Weightlifting one like eight years ago, seven years ago. And that was, it just, there just weren't that many great weightlifting coaches because it was like such on the rise at the time. So, the ability to find

a weightlifting coach locally to you that was actually very knowledgeable was just really hard. And the USA Weightlifting one just brings those coaches to you. It's phenomenal. It's fun, man. When I go to do those things, the first thing I do is go around the room and let them introduce themselves. But then tell me what's their background. So do I have a room filled with CrossFit coaches, a room filled with, you know, strength conditioning or a room filled with, you know,

people wanting to become weightlifting coaches. And then I, you know, the good thing about USA Weightlifting, it's more of an outline. And so you can kind of like, you can like guide the certification based on the room. And then I like, we do this huge Q&A. That's my favorite because USA Way of Living, they give

the people taking the test what they think that they want to hear. They also give them what they need to hear. Then you do Q&A, you give them exactly what they want. I don't know what someone's coming to learn. Are they wanting to know the progressions of the jerk? Are they wanting to know programming? Are they wanting to know the progressions of the jerk?

Or are they wanting to know programming? Are they wanting to know how do you start youth kids? And so then I can tailor it to exactly what they want. It is fun. I think all of us that teach it, you know, all the coaches that teach it, like I think we really enjoy it because, you know, most weightlifting coaches love what they do, and they want to spread the word of weightlifting to the world. It's a good way to do that.

I love it. Yeah, all the CrossFit coaches really, in my opinion, need to go take USA Weightlifting, at least the level one. What are the big things about the CrossFit level one? I've taken the level one twice for CrossFit. I took the level two like right when it came out, and I kind of don't even want to talk about it because it was so bad at the time. And my assumption is that it's gotten significantly better. But I thought that it was like one of the worst certifications. I couldn't believe that I actually went and paid for it.

It was so bad at the time. What was it? The CrossFit level two. Oh it it was so bad at the time but i think what was it the crossfit level two um but i was i was inside probably the first six months of them actually having it so it just it went terrible and i i would but i was so excited that they came out with one to like separate myself from the pack like i had my level two. I thought that it was going to matter. I paid for my entire coaching staff to go on this long road trip. We hit a bunch of gyms on the way up to hang out with people. Then we got there and it was just like terrible. It just wasn't pretty. I couldn't believe it.

I want to say Chris Spieler was there. He's an awesome guy. We've interviewed him. It's not really Spieler's fault. I think that we just were so – we jumped so early, and it just hadn't – they recognized that there was a – CrossFit recognized after however many years and however many people with level ones and however many gyms had opened that there was a need to take the idea of coaching and programming to the next level. And there probably at the time was like a – there was probably a need to have a more academic approach to the CrossFit methodology, which should go into the level two, and I hope it does now. Something that is very similar to the CSCS in that you're not just teaching CrossFit methodology, but you're actually getting in and like teaching energy systems you're teaching programming basics like yeah because the level one is just it's such a theory-based um weekend like in my opinion like if you just went and did the crossfit level one and you walked into day, like even going through CrossFit for 12 years,

when I went and listened to the day one of the CrossFit level one, when I had to re-up my cert, I was like, this is awesome. There's no doubt that this company has their shit together. Like they totally understand how to talk to people. They know how to sell this theory of fitness to people. It just like, the whole thing rolls so smoothly. And I was going in, the second time I took it, looking for a reason to think that it wasn't a great cert. Because I had been in it so long, I was kind of like realizing there was other methodologies.

I just, there was just, I needed, I was looking for other things, but I needed to get it re-upped. So when I went in, I was like, there's got to be holes in this thing. Like I know there's holes in this thing. I know that CrossFit is not the only way to do this. And I had been hanging out in chat rooms with Boyle and talking to him and arguing with him at times, which is really smart on the internet. But really, like, I went in there thinking, I am going to find a way, find a reason to not like the level one. Like I was, I went in with a negative attitude, almost a finding a reason not to like it. And day one smashesashes like when they lay out what is crossfit

and then they get into like each of the systems they get into the hopper and then they go and teach you how to squat it's fantastic like day one crushes and then day two shows up and they teach you snatch and clean and jerk and you go whoa stop it stop that's the day that i was i was like oh i totally get there's there's another need for this um and that's why i think that everybody it has nothing to do with bergner but bergner's the guy that i i feel like it back in the day wrote the playbook for coaches to learn olympic lifting and usa weightlifting teaches the snatch and clean and jerk very different than the way Bergner teaches the Bergner warm-up. And there's nothing wrong with the Bergner warm-up.

We talked about this. Bergner's awesome. He's one of our favorite people. Mine too, yeah. There's just a different way to do it. And jump and shrug is just a weird thing. When you see some people that don't have rhythm and timing in their life and then there you see them with their shoulders and their ears

doing weird stuff and you kind of look around the room and you go what's happening here like there's just some some basic things that i really like the way that usaw teaches the snatch and clean and jerk and i i really feel like all crossfit coaches because olympic lifting is such a big piece of crossfit especially when you're if you're even an intermediate to maybe an advanced athlete and you're trying to get better at the sport not just learning the movements it's a really important thing because you've got people in there doing a bunch of barbell cycling and you just you should go get you should go learn from the people that actually 100 only teach weightlifting just to understand how they think and what they look at when they're when they're coaching

weightlifting i would say the only if i could if i could change one thing about crossfit the world of crossfit it would be like if people people would stop throwing their hips to the bar. Is this the one common thing you see in America? I don't know what the CrossFit is. Isn't that John Norse fault? No. I think it is. I saw that video.

I saw that video. You've got to give the context to all that. There was no context to that video. He specifically put that video out. We all know the video. He specifically put that video out. We all know the video. He was just banging the bar into his hips. The hit and catch.

Right. So, like, well, I mean, the bar and the hips meet, but they meet in the middle, and it's more of an uppercut, more of a lift than it is a bat. Yeah. Didn't look like that in the video. That's probably not a wise video to make but so even though like a lot of times i will uh when i first learned weightlifting they taught i was taught the hit and catch by wes barnett but it was quickly moved into what you're trying to learn is where the bar like when you do that the body starts to learn, okay, that's where I need to meet the bar. And then you go roll right into, okay, now, don't do that.

Don't. Like Piros Dimas, after being in America for a year, they're like, all right. They asked him, they're like, so, Piros, what do you notice is a common theme in America that we need to fix? And he says, I just don't like the way you guys, I'm quoting now, so if my wife watches this, I'm quoting. I don't like the way you guys

have fucked the bar. Yeah, let me agree. We don't either. So yeah, yeah. It's a problem that, you know,

because you have so many CrossFitters end up being our better weightlifters, so it starts to get into the CrossFit world too because, you know, when someone does it two, three years in CrossFit, it becomes very hard to break the habit.

I know why that happens because it makes the noise. Everybody wants to make the noise. They don't realize. Yeah, the clang. The clang means you're doing it right. It's like the Pavlov dogs thing. You ring the bell. When you hit the bar with your hips really hard, you ring the bell and you go, even if I'm doing it wrong, it sounds cool as shit.

Super awesome sounding. It's not cool though. Well, they don't realize that. It's a very tangible cue for beginners. If you say, now you've got to push your knees under and get a good lift on the bar. Like that, like this, like that. But did you slam your hips into the bar did you make contact with the bars like a very very tangible yes no i did it so slam your hips yeah kind of like kind of like saying like when you first start lifting weights you can you can say like you're jumping with a bar in your hands

but then once you get even kind of good you're like well you're you are kind of but not not really let's back it down it's's just an easy way to conceptualize it when you don't know what's going on and then you can move on past it. Just use it as a stepping stone. Friends, I want to take a quick break to thank our sponsors. Over at Shadow Creative Studios,

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I love CrossFit. The only thing I would say, as a whole, it'd be cool to work on that one thing, but like if it doesn't want to change, I still love it because most of my athletes were former CrossFitters, so like Ryan Morgan, I mean all, every one of my top athletes

were like former CrossFitters, so Well I think there's a little piece of it to how it's taught in those seminars too like if you're a coach, or if you're somebody that just loves CrossFit and you're just an average Joe intermediate level athlete and you go, I want to go get my level one. Well, when you show up – and again, I love Coach Bergener. He's one of our favorite humans. Actually, Coach Bergener's garage is one of the coolest places I've ever lifted weights in my entire life. It's the best. is one of the coolest places I've ever lifted weights in my entire life.

It overlooks all of the mountains in California and you know that all of his kids and Olympians and everyone has been in that garage and it's just tight. Osha never showed up to Bergener's Garage

because there's way too many barbells and way too many people and it's not safe. But we all make it work because it's so awesome. But when you show up to the level one and the way that they teach

from basically I guess they sort of teach the power position. But the jump and shrug right off the bat, when you have a PVC pipe, you just can't help it. The only, there's not enough weight to, to like feel the bar in the hang and then get it to your hips with a PVC pipe. You're just raising it. Like it doesn't make sense when you teach it from that position, which is what I love about the USA weightlifting when they go into snatch balances and the press first. It's an interesting way to maybe teach overhead position straight off the bat. cert to USA Weightlifting was that they teach snatch and clean and jerk completely different

in a completely different order than they do. And if USAW is doing it... Yeah, all the individual pieces of it. I've even used some of that stuff now as a coach. Travis, what are all the different weightlifting certifications out there

right now? I mean, USAW doesn't just have one, right? I did the sports performance coach certification like 10 years ago. Is that still around? Yeah. Well, they switched it back to club coach now. So it's like level one, club coach. And then now it's level two.

And then it's – here's my favorite part about USAW weightlifting. From that point on, you cannot buy anything. You have to earn it. So, like, national coach, you have to have X amount of athletes in the national championships. That's awesome. And then it goes international coach. Then you have to have created X amount of Team USA athletes. And then senior international, which is what I am, you have to have produced a lot of Team USA athletes.

And so you can't – I don't have to worry about somebody buying my certification saying, well, I'm senior international too. Hell no, you're not. No, you're not. I didn't see you in – Yeah. I actually always wished that they would do that in CrossFit too. Yeah, they should.

Everyone gets their level one. Everyone gets their level two. And then now it's just what kind of athlete can you produce. Yeah. Like everyone gets to level one, everyone gets to level two. And then now it's just, what kind of athlete can you produce? Right. Like there is a sport there. Yeah. Like,

are you actually capable of creating, but then it would have highlighted the sport way too much. But, uh, I, I always wish that they had done that. Well, it would also,

I would, it might highlight the sport, but it's also going to say like you know if if you can create this many crossfit games athletes you sure as hell know what you're doing as far as like programming as you you know the energy systems you know how to teach the movement patterns so that's the person you also want coaching if i'm going to decide to do crossfit i would want you even if it's for general health because i know you know what you're doing so yeah so i like coaching beginners you know like um it was oh courtney is one of my favorite athletes and she's like i mean she'll probably end up

eventually making the american open but that would be probably the cap of it and so uh but she's she's the best she's one of my favorite athletes of all time. Just because you coach this great team of athletes doesn't mean you don't like to coach regular people. Some people might not, but I love coaching people like Courtney. Doug, you

took the Precision Nutrition course. Tell me about that one. That's like the gold standard in eating. I thought it was a great course. I me about that one. That's like the gold standard in eating, learning how to eat. I thought it was a great course. I think John Berardi is just an amazing person. I think he really has his act together, both on the physiological side of things and on the psychological side of things. He has a heavy emphasis on obviously knowing what to eat, how much to eat, when to eat, what nutrients are in the foods, etc. But then he realizes that once you know the basics of what to eat and what to tell people,

like as far as like the actual macros and whatever, then the real challenge becomes, can you actually get them to follow your advice? Can you get them to change their behavior when you're not around? And that really becomes the majority of the game because unlike being a weightlifting coach where you have somebody in front of you, they're lifting weights for the hour that you're there or whatever it is. And then you're there to give them feedback in real time as they're doing something. Nutrition is an all-day job. And so you're not going to be there to coach them through when they're having their meals and when they're out eating with their friends and when they're at parties and whatever it is. And so he has a very strong emphasis on behavior change.

So I actually feel like the psychological side of the persistent nutrition cert and studying for it, et cetera, is the most valuable part. Like, again, I had a lot of experience going into that certain. So the like the physiology nutrition stuff was, was very familiar to me. And the psychological side of things, I, I quickly realized that that's where the, the, I have a bigger gap in my knowledge on the behavior change side of things. Yeah. Yeah. I need to take that test, man.

Like I always, you know, if someone asked me what I thought was my weak spot as a coach it would definitely be nutrition you know like uh not that i'm i mean i'm pretty good but like i would like to really solidify things you know more in that area are you and there's are you precision nutrition certified no they're pretty much like the gold standard though uh we always had a nutritionist in the gym like multiple of them that if you wanted to be a go down the athlete route we had one of those if you wanted to just kind of learn how to eat better we had one of those we actually had um like somebody that worked in the hospital setting we had somebody on like not on staff but someone that we could refer out to that was a vegan if someone like that popped up um we always had those resources. So I never really had to, anytime we did like the nutrition challenges or stuff like that, like I had written an ebook,

I actually sell like two of them on Amazon a month. It's like my favorite $6 check that shows up every month from Amazon. I'm like, where did the $6 deposit come from? Because I wrote an ebook and put it on there for like $8 or something like that. Go buy it. It'll change your life. I don't even know where it is on Amazon. I know. We used

to put it when I first started co-hosting, our web guy used to put it on show notes all the time as like this is my thing what i was really just trying to figure out how to load a product to amazon to figure out how to sell something on there just because i was interested so i had this pdf and i was like now you know what i should have done is I should have picked some random category. Like this is how you eat if you're a 5'8 bald man that weighs roughly 195 pounds.

And then I could have been a bestseller in that category. Good idea. Doug's chuckling right now. He loves my bestseller on Amazon. Yeah. Like we wrote like the high high level understanding of nutrition. And I think what Doug's talking about, the behavior side of things is really the biggest thing. And we're going to do a show on how to find the right coach. But I think that that is the most important part of nutrition is that

you want to find a nutrition coach and a weightlifting coach as well that you really want to impress almost like you want to make your coach be proud of the way you live your life because nutrition like you don't have to there is no checking into the gym you don't have it's not like i showed up and ate well three days a week. Okay, great. You did nothing. You've literally done nothing. So a nutrition coach is like a really challenging one. You have to be like very – you have to really want your coach to be proud of you. You have to really want to change the way you live so that your coach becomes proud of you and you become one of their like trophies because you have to do it three to five times a day.

You got to get a certain amount of calories and however those calories come in. So we wrote like here's – and it comes out in all of our e-books. It's basically the same information of like how do you find relative maintenance calories? How do you – if you wanted to lose weight, what's like a great approach? What are whole food quality sources to get your calories? And then from there, like it's really hard to – getting into the nuances of things is just – it's tough at this stage, 20-something years into this where you just look at it and you go, you just got to eat less or you got to eat a little bit more and you got to train and i'm so i wish it was i i have tried many times to find a better way but if you are going to get bigger you got to eat more and if you're going to get smaller you got to eat less and i you know, outside of that, if you hire a nutrition coach, just hire somebody

that you really want to make proud, them to be proud of you. Like you're, you're, you're seeking their advice and you're seeking them being proud of you because that, if you eat a little less, you're going to lose some weight. Yeah. I wish there was more. I really do. Like, I want there to – it's like when we interviewed Lane and Galpin. And it's like, well, yeah, there's things we could learn. But for the most part, you should eat a little less and do it consistently. We're going to interview Spencer Ndolse later this week. And he's – that's a big part of his whole MMO

it's not complicated all the diets are the same they're just reducing putting you in a caloric deficit one way or another there's many different methods there and he likes to make funny memes to make fun of people that think otherwise oh yeah best friends

they're totally buddies and we used to run challenges in the gym like the paleo challenge and all that stuff um but again like it's a 30-day thing or 60-day thing and uh they work really well because people do because they want to win something so that that becomes i just i i i struggle with nutrition not because – and we did an entire show on the 80-20 thing. It's just I struggle with the nutrition thing because people don't have a hard time showing up to the gym three to five days a week and working their ass off. It's just you have to figure out almost a more challenging why and and a lot of times finding a coach that you want to be proud of you is the biggest thing just got to go find somebody that alex macklin does a really good job

you know yeah with nutrition i think uh he's he really cares about he's such an empathetic type person like uh he does a really good job at like checking on people and, you know, and like caring if they're not getting it, you know, like he's going to really invest. That's the key, man, is getting a coach. I think we have two good coaches, I think, that works for Ashley who do nutrition, Crystal and Jackie. But like they both, like if it's not working, you know, if like they're, you know, client, athlete or whatever is not seeing results, it, it bothers them.

And so they take it personally and then they really, you know, work hard at like encouraging that person and trying to figure out what's going wrong. But you got to ask someone like that. I think if you get, you know, if you, if you don't, if you get a nutrition coach that's just trying to get a ton of people and like don't, don't really care about what happens. That's probably not going to work because they're not going to invest emotionally. That's not going to be the person that you're trying to make proud because you're not going to make them proud. They don't care about you.

So like find somebody who actually, who actually cares, checks on you, wants to know, like if you're, if you call them or if you text, email them, whatever,

and say, I've gained a pound and you're trying to lose. And they should respond with like, let's talk about this. What happened? How's your emotions? And that's the important thing. I think also the nutrition side, I struggle with people and the coaching stuff. And it became much smarter for me to either just hand them an e-book and say, this is the basics.

Or you're a more complicated person because you're a high-level athlete, go talk to Jen Ryan. You are vegan, so go talk to this person. You are general health and would like to live your life and all that, go talk to this person. Because I typically, when it comes to stuff like that, come across as a huge asshole, and it sucks, but I just, it's so basic, and it's so, like, people would as a huge asshole and it sucks but i just it's so basic and it's so like people would just come to me and go well i gained a pound i'm like who cares let's just go get stronger like i i can't get wrapped up in all that right now like i'm not the nutrition guy i'm i want you to be strong so i would like you to eat more i don't care about your abs that much

i just want you to get jacked and in way, that's very insensitive to that person's needs. So I just got better at saying like, here's the deal. I'm going to give you this ebook, super free. You can't beat the price. And I'd love you to read it. And it's going to tell you the highest level order things that you need to work on. It's going to talk about how much you eat. It's going to talk about the quality of food you eat. And it's going to talk about how you kind of time carbohydrates around your workouts so that you can burn tons of fuel and it's going to be fantastic and you're going to learn about energy sources a little bit and you know like it you're going to get it but if you really want somebody i'm not your person because every time i'm just going to

go back to well i'd like you to be stronger so you should stop being in a deficit all the time uh it's just you need to have somebody that has that frame of mind and is actually like really good at, as Doug was talking about the behavior change side of it, because that's, that's a tough one. It was, it was really cool last year.

The positives of last year were we had two athletes who dropped down in weight classes and at top, like we had Hunter when she went down, she could have to now she, in weight classes. We had Hunter when she went down two. She dropped the weight class and then she made the world team and she set a PR total. Then she went down another time

and she did really well. It was interesting to see people losing weight, getting leaner, and then still hitting big numbers. We have a girl in Denmark right now who dropped. This is it. Is this the piglet or is this Lulu?

Strong piglet. Yeah, Sandra. She dropped to 49s. That's tiny. Yeah. She did it with the help of Andy. Andy helped her. I told you, Andy and Lane, they're my only two.

Yeah. So, but, like, she's dropped down to 49s, and that's her chance to make the Olympics. So, it's been really cool to see how people can actually either maintain or sometimes get stronger when they drop. With weightlifting, you can do that because it's, like, an efficiency thing. Yeah. You know, as long as you're, like, practicing the movement enough you can you can it's just really more of a movement than it is being super strong most of them have excess strength so you can lose a little bit of like absolute strength and still stats and cleanser it well yeah so it's been

that was my favorite part of last year yeah it's two moves i think though getting back to the precision nutrition actual cert that turns out to be like the gold standard i feel like everybody i want to do that yeah everybody that does nutrition they may go at it from multiple angles there's there's plenty of nutrition certifications that you can go to but precision always seems to be the one that everything else is built off of and if it's like you take one as an entry point and then you dig a little deeper and then you dig a little deeper and sooner or later, if you dig deep enough, you always end up back at Berardi's work over the past. How long has he been doing that for? It's like two decades now or so, right?

It's a long – he's been at it a long time. Is it really two decades? I mean I feel like I've never not heard his name as the go-to source. I'm not sure when the certification specifically started, but I remember he had products that I was attempting to sell online when I first got started online back in 2006, 2007. He had some stuff up that he already had affiliate programs for it, and I was already trying to sell it using blogging and things like that.

But I'm not sure when his actual certifications had started, but he's been doing it for a while. Yeah. I want to get that. One of my coaches, Crystal, she's more than just a coach. She's definitely like a partner for Master League. But that woman, she's got Precision Nutrition, CSCS, CrossFit Level 1, CrossFit Level 2, USA Weightlifting.

Oh, is she a national or international? She's either USAW. She's definitely a USA Weightlifting national coach. She might be international. If not, she will be soon. And so that girl cares about her education. That's the coaches. If you're a coach out there who has a business or an online business, you want

coaches like her to be on your team for sure. She's a savage. She actually really cares. I feel like you can always tell coaches like that because they're just in the gym all the time when they don't have to be. All the time. When they do their programming in the gym. In fact, Crystal, i hope you're not listening to this sometimes when i go to mash

elite i hope you're not there because i know i'm gonna end up talking to you for like two hours yeah she'll just take your time not take it i enjoy being around her and hanging out but she's always got she's so happy to be there and what am i supposed to do when you meet somebody that's super happy to talk weightlifting with you i'm somebody that's super happy to talk weightlifting with you I'm screwed I'm super happy to talk weightlifting too so let's just not work for the rest of the day I know

I gotta go talk about weightlifting on the microphone she's always got a big smile on her face she's always just down to talk talk about getting strong I recruited her son obviously and then I had no idea is just down to talk. Talk about getting strong. You know what? I recruited her son, obviously.

That's who I wanted. And then I had no idea that it came with a brilliant mom and then an awesome dad who flies Apache helicopters. It was a really cool deal. He's got good stories, I bet. Oh, yeah. He's been on our podcast before, and it was awesome. Talking about flying on Apache.

He was in several war battles. So he's been getting shot at. Hanging off the back. Blowing stuff up. I just want to know what that gun feels like. The one where you hold it like it's a race car driving wheel, but it's like. You know what he said? I'll get right back I gotta tell you, he said

that when he goes into battle, he says, he says, God, I pray that our enemies have a change of heart, but if they don't, I pray for accuracy. Oh my God, I'm scared of you now. Like, God,

that is so savage. He was being real. He really did. He's like, Lord, I pray they have a change of heart. But if not, I pray for accuracy. Maybe I'm going to blow their ass up is what he's saying. Wow. Oh, that's funny.

Dude, the last one that I want to do, we've got to talk about your boy Boyle. His certified strength coach., certified functional strength coach. Um, if, uh, if people, I don't know how many people actually in the CrossFit world follow Boyle. Uh, he was kind of somebody that I followed for a long time, but, uh, on my way out of CrossFit, probably the last two years of owning the gym, became really interested in his work just because I was training a lot of youth athletes in lacrosse and ice hockey, which is weird in San Diego, but I had a lot of ice hockey players. So you can't go too far in youth ice hockey training without landing on Boyle's site

and realizing he's pretty much, yeah, he's the resource. But when I went to that cert, I thought that that was actually incredibly well done. It was the first time that I had done a cert where day one was all done online. And it took all of the methodology stuff, basically what the crossfit level one stuff does and and put that piece online so that when you show up and then the very weak part which is the movement part of the crossfit cert they basically only do like assessments and the certified functional strength coach so you do there's no like foundational movements where we just like move right into teaching squatting and snatching clean and jerk. The entire movement assessment of the functional strength coach is assessment basically and learning how to screen athletes and then more or less picking one of the templates that he's put together to fix and help people that are deficient in specific

movement patterns. I thought it was a really interesting take. That's cool. And it really changed a lot of the ways that I was coaching the youth athletes. Just because when I originally started coaching them, there wasn't a need for me to have specific measurements to be able to talk to the coaches about how their athletes are getting better. It was just, hey, we're here to get strong, and I'm a guy that can do it. But as the business side grew of it, the coaches and the parents specifically, like when you're doing personal training, I had a girl sign with an Ivy League school as a sophomore, which I didn't even know was legal. Then their parents are dropping all this money

into personal training with you, and they want to know if their kid's getting better. I was like, yeah, of course she is. She's getting way stronger. can't you see how much better she's moving can't you tell like it's so obvious to me but they didn't speak the same language as me and it wasn't like they were super cool parents but they really just wanted to know like is she getting better and i wasn't capable of answering that question until i went to uh boyleERT in which he gave me a lot of like really good assessment ideas and strength numbers and things to like communicate with parents about training youth athletes because he's been through that so many times of like the parent walking in and being like, okay, you have a D1 athlete and she's going to an Ivy League school and she's a sophomore. She's still on track, right? You go, yeah. athlete and she's going to an ivy league school and she's a sophomore she's still on track right you go yeah but i don't have on a piece of paper that says this was good that got better there was no like log sheet i was just coaching her to get strong um so if if you are looking for something like that i i really do recommend boyle's um certification i do too his his assessment side

is really really cool and the fact that he hangs out with great cook and like dan john and all those guys like the influence that has gone into boyle's life is just he's he's one of the greats he's one of the best that perform better that whole circuit been, it's cool how they put so many awesome people together. Martin Rooney. Yeah. You know, great cook. And,

uh, Oh, Stu McGill, Dan, John, like I say, heck of a, that's powerful.

Not only for the people attending, but those guys, because they get together and they learn about each other. And they're like, Oh, this is what I've been learning. And then this person was like, Oh,

this is what I've been learning. So I'm sure. I feel like, yeah, I think you should try been learning. And this person's like, oh, this is what I've been learning. So I'm sure every time they hang out, it's insane. I think you should try it. I feel like you have to get jumped. You have to get jumped into the gang to be able to speak at that conference. I was asked to two years ago. And so I think I might maybe, you know, after I get my PhD, then I'd like to do that.

Mainly for my own self so I can hang around those dudes more often and get to ask them loads of questions. It'd be good marketing, too. I feel like there's some CrossFitters out there that have only heard negative things about Mike Boyle, which I think is totally insane. He has a couple of controversial topics. You guys have both been in online debates with him about about those things like we're arguing over like one or two topics yeah but if you if you read any of his books you go to his certification like 99 of what he says is like great advice i've learned a ton from him overall like and that goes for any experts in in any field like most of what you think you agree on, and then you argue over the nuance.

That's where big rivalries are usually built over some little detail. Like Travis is having. Travis has zero big rivalries with anyone that still teaches step aerobics. Because the gap is too large.

But you might argue against another weightlifting coach who thinks banging their hips into the bars is a really good idea. And you're going to argue over that forever. So that's kind of how it is with Boyle. People argue over these nuanced things with him. But overall, if you zoom out and just look at the totality of the advice and experience that he has and what he says out to the world, like most of it is good. If you can not get too, too caught up in the one thing that you disagree with.

And then, then you, you spread that disagreement kind of over the rest of everything that he says. And you go, Oh, I'm going to discredit all of his advice because of this one or these one or two little things.

Most of what he says is fantastic. Yeah. Waxman hates Boyle. Yeah. And Boyle hates him too I mean, you know he and I debated on unilateral versus bilateral squatting and we actually did an online, there was a debate

that we, Stronger Experts hosted the two of us, but at the end of the day I like him, I've actually paid to go to his seminars that perform better but, you know, just he thinks that it's not that fact that he just does unilateral squatting. It's the fact that he says that bilateral squatting is bad for you. It's all these things.

That is the absolute statement that drives me crazy. But besides that, the dude is awesome. Yeah. I think he's great. I think I've learned a ton from him. And he's built an incredible business both online and in person like nobody has a better training business than that guy you know especially in-person training business mash i have never walked

into a gym and been so impressed as when we walked into MBSC. Dude, that guy has from like 4 to 8 o'clock in the afternoon. I mean, Doug, he maybe had like 200 kids in there. Each time we went in. Yeah, from Madhouse. Well organized, though. Perfect thing. He's got kids running the 40. So he's got the 40 lane set up, teaching them sprint mechanics.

He's got foam rolling. So he's teaching the 40 lane set up, teaching them sprint mechanics. He's got foam rolling. So he's teaching movement, mobility. All the coaches are educating young kids throughout the entire warm-up session. And then kettlebell front squats, single leg or rear foot elevated split squats. Everything you expect Boyle to be putting together. But it was incredible to see that many kids, to think that that many parents trust that system, that you would go in there on multiple occasions and there would be just hundreds of kids on a random Tuesday or whatever day we got up there, just crushing it. Like it was crazy.

With kids, if you get in, that's the key. Like when I, you know, when I had my sports performance business, the key is when you get in and they see you producing, you know, a couple of awesome athletes, then it just spreads like wildfire. And as long as you stay focused in the one area, like you kill it. And my problem is like, I get bored with teaching, you know,

the same thing. And then I got, I would get bored because I didn't like necessarily having to coach everybody, you know, like says the guy who teaches snatch and clean and jerk. Yeah. Two movements forever.

Yeah. I know. But they're incredible athletes. Take it from the ground and put it over your head. Why do you think I'm about to become a professor? I got to mix in something new. I know. I know.

But, like, the sports performance got to – I hated coaching people I didn't want to coach. You know, there was kids that didn't want to be there. Their parents were bringing them because they wanted me to make them this Division I athlete. It was not going to happen. You know, I'm like, I just wanted so badly to tell the truth, to be like, look, mom and dad, look in the mirror. You gave this child the genetics. That child has zero chance because of you. You know?

That's your fault. Like, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit man gotta have something to work with uh i want to be a fly on the wall for those conversations i that's one that's one thing uh after just being around athletes my whole life that i'm terrified slash insanely excited about is talking to other parents at sporting their kids sporting events like i'm gonna have to go play dad but i'm just gonna sit there and like you know what athletes look like yeah so their kids their parents are gonna be sitting in the stands talking to you like oh like little little suzy over there's just really you know she's doing great you go oh okay that's that's great in the back of your head you're like she can't walk yes

why are her toes pointed out like those are the those are the asshole comments i'm going to end up saying like just snarky like oh yeah why do why do you think her toes are pointed out while she stands that's weird you should maybe you should get that straightened out, and they'll have no idea what you're talking about. My wife is going to be so mad at me when I do stuff like that. I just can't help it. It's going to be too good. Why every time she lands, do her knees knock together?

Yeah. Are her knees supposed to touch? That's weird. Maybe she gets more power when she swings the bat that way. How does she stand with zero muscles? It's amazing. Are you guys from America? Are you from Mars?

I can't wait. Oh, it's going to be so bad. It's weird. Do you see what her arm does when she runs? I've never seen that before. I bet it gives her more power. You should keep working on that. Yeah, they taught her to flail when she runs? I've never seen that before. I bet it gives her more power. You should keep working on that. Yeah, who taught her to flail when she runs?

That's cool. I could just see Ashton's eye roll right now. Like, shut up. Stop talking to them. Speaking of you, did anyone see Rock's overhead squat? Crushed it. I did. Crushed it.

Man, Obi keeps loving this sport. I love coaching him. it. Crushed it. Man, Obi keeps loving this sport. I love coaching him. Not only he has to ask me, he's like, Dad, can we go get jacked? He'll say, that's the best. Can we go get jacked right now? Sure, buddy. You're five years

old. Let's go get jacked. We do 15, maybe 30 minutes sometimes, and then he plays, and that's it. Perfect. It's my favorite thing having a five-year-old that sounds like a long time to keep to keep him focused on one activity yeah he is not normal bear i'm just curious how that'll ever work but like with rock he's just like when he did max out friday on friday with us and he sat right there waiting his turn i'm like rock it's your turn he'd walk walk up. He'd slam the bar.

I was like, this is awesome. That's awesome. That's awesome. You got to teach attitude first, right? He's got plenty of that. Like, he loves it. And he always, he gets, he's setting up, and he's looking over to make sure everyone's watching. He wants everyone to be watching him.

I'm like, God, you are my son. It's terrible. I love that. He's got to have a little attitude in there. Oh, man, I love it. Yeah, I love that. I can't wait till we talk about that, about coaching youth. I put a little –

That's basically going to – when we do that show, we'll do that on Wednesday. That's basically going to be a show of us talking about being dads and training our kids yeah yeah our kids are gonna be stronger than all of them and like go back i dude i told my i told my mother-in-law that we were talking about it the other day when i was talking about how i pushed adelaide from like the day she was born while just constantly pushing her so she could develop a thicker core so bad. Let me just tell you this one sentence I put

in the post I did last night. I said, FYI, if you come at me with any growth plate nonsense with zero research to back up your outdated, illogical opinion, I'm going to block you and chalk you up to a Darwinism thing.

Please, if someone comments, I'm going to go see the... It took me everything not to go just write something. Just because. Just because. For no reason. Just to say something. Where can they find you, my man?

Coach Bash, where can they find you? Bashlead.com or go to Instagram and read that post on MSC performance. Doug Larson. Find me on Instagram. Douglas E. Larson. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We're Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shr're barbellshrugged at barbellshrugged. You can find us at barbellshrugged.com

forward slash store for all the programs, e-books, nutrition, and online courses. We will see you guys next Wednesday. That's a wrap, friends. Make sure you get over to barbellshrugged.com forward slash store. That's where we're having the sale. High intensity hypertrophy, $49 a month on sale,

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