Barbell Shrugged - Changing The Game with Richard Diaz — Real Chalk #82

Episode Date: July 2, 2019

In this episode, Richard Diaz and I talk about one of the most controversial subjects in Crossfit. How do I increase work capacity while training less?? With so many different ideologies circling the sport under so many different coaches — it’s really hard to land on one solid piece of information. Everyone has theories, however Rich has more data.    We talk a lot about battling fatigue. We talk a lot about what’s truly right by science. And we talk about a new training style that Rich has been working on since he heard about CrossFit. In my honest opinion, his newest theory is the missing piece we’ve all been looking for. Welcome to one of the moments in sport when everything changes. I’m so excited to be part of it and I’m more excited to drop this episode in your eardrums.    God speed.    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/rc-diaz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shark family, there's so many things going on that we're just going to put a little one and a half minute segment at the beginning of each show just to keep you in the know of everything that's happening. One Ton Challenge Live presented by FitAid. Friday night at the CrossFit Games in the FitAid Lounge from 5 to 8 p.m. We have Olympians, pro athletes, CrossFit Games athletes, and celebrity fitness trainers taking the stage to see how far we can push strength. Snatch, clean jerk, squat dead bench, the strongest people in the world coming to show up. Test how far we can push the limits of strength. To stay in the know on exclusive access to athletes, live streams, and leaderboards, go to live.onetonchallenge.com. That's live.onetonchallenge.com.

Also, starting next week, new shows coming to the Shrug Collective. The Business of Fitness with Jason Kalipa starting July 8th. Active Life RX. That's Active Life Radio with Dr. Sean Pastuch on Fridays and the Barbell Life with Coach Travis Mash on Sundays. So the weekly lineup is going to be Monday. the Business of Fitness with Jason Kalipa. Tuesday, Real Chalk with Ryan Fisher. Wednesday, Barbell Shrug with Doug Larson and myself. Thursday, Muscle Maven Radio with Ashley Van Houten. Friday, Active Life Radio with Dr. Sean Pastude. Saturday, we're going to try and start getting two Barbell Shrugs out a week. It's a heavy, heavy load, but we're going to try to get back to that schedule.

And then Sunday with Travis Mash, the barbell life. Also, I want to let everyone know we just launched our brand new store loaded with T-shirts, hats, one-ton nutrition, macro calculators, and more. So head over to shrugcollective.com forward slash store. That's shrugcollective.com forward slash store to get stocked up on all the shrug swag. Have a killer week, friends. All right, guys, I hope you're ready. This week, I am bringing on Mr. Richard Diaz on to The Real Chalk Show. So excited to have him on because I had him on my YouTube channel for a couple episodes. We did running mechanics and how to increase your work capacity. And all of those videos hit like 500,000 plus views. So at the time, I only had like 10,000 YouTube subscribers. And to hit a number like

that was like absolutely absurd. So people really, really, really, really, really, really want to hear him talk. So now you guys get to hear him talk on the podcast and not only hear him talk, but we dive into something that's like super controversial right now in the CrossFit scene. It's basically programming. So what is actually beneficial for you as an athlete to get better at anaerobic performance? Because right now there's a huge argument with some of the top coaches out there right now about doing aerobic performance to increase athletes' anaerobic performance. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, you're going to know a little bit more as you guys listen to this episode. But basically, Rich just breaks it all down. And I think what's really cool about Rich's

approach to everything is that he is data-driven for everything that he does. He loves numbers. He's a very science driven guy. He's been in the field for like 25 or 30 years. And pretty much everything he says, he doesn't really have much of an opinion on is kind of like a factual thing that he kind of proved over all of these years. So I've seen his little rig. I've been on his rig, been through all of his testing. I've seen all the numbers and I can understand now where he's getting everything from and where he's going with everything that he's going with. So he's an amazing man to listen to speak. I think you guys are going to really, really dig this episode. And a lot of the things that he touches on, there are things that are being touched on for the first time. And I think that in the sport of CrossFit, this is one of those moments where you're going to listen to something that you've never heard before.

Like you've just never heard it. It's going to be a new style of training. It's just new information. And, you know, we've had this happen several times throughout the career of CrossFit, throughout just the life of CrossFit. And whenever someone new comes on the scene, it, it, it changes the way everybody trains. And it's just like this huge, just pivotal moment. And I think that you guys are about to be part of one of those pivotal moments right now. And I just, I'm so excited that I'm part of it. You know what I mean? It's, it's, it's not all my doing. I have a very small part in it, but I'm just so excited to just be part of it.

All right, so I'm just so excited for this show to take off into your eardrum. Before we get started, I do want to talk about our sponsor, which is Wattify. And not only is it a sponsor, but it's someone that I've been with for five years. I've been part of Wattify since I opened the gym. They're an all-in-one platform. They manage all of the billing, the membership management, the scheduling, all the performance tracking that I have for the gym, all the online members. You can go back to five years and see every workout that I've ever made. And if you're a member of Chalk Online, you know what I'm talking about. And you can see all the

sweat workouts, all the crossfit workouts, all the daily D workouts. It just goes on and on and on. And they have a huge database for me that I can go back and look at everything. And not only me, but the athletes as well. They also have a couple of different templates, one with heart rate monitor capability. They have another one if you want to throw a competition. And they have a really cool point of sale system. As a gym owner, you can switch screens to point of sale and then just have a just totally separate screen up so people can buy stuff, which is kind of cool. But I know a lot of you are like, well, I don't own a gym. I don't really want to listen to this right now. And that's fine. If you want to be a personal trainer or you want to have your own brand of

programming or something like that, Wattify is still a great option for you because it's a mobile app that's not yours. So when you buy your own app, it's like $100,000, sometimes more. You're using their interface for a small monthly fee, and you don't have to deal with any of that back-end stuff. So that's what I think is really cool about piggybacking on one of these other app companies is you don't have that huge bill up front. You don't have that managing fee every single month. It's just a small fee that you invest into for your own investment purposes for your own company. And I think it's a great thing to have. Another thing that's great about Wattify is they get back to you pretty quick on just about everything. You can talk to them all the time, send messages all the time on whatever. Your clients can change credit cards on the app if it ever bounces,

which trust me, it happens a lot. I get hundreds of them every single month. on whatever. Your clients can change credit cards on the app if it ever bounces, which, trust me, it happens a lot. I get hundreds of them every single month. And the other thing that I like about Wattify is that it's very easy to use. So a lot of these other apps are just so freaking hard to use, you get to the point where you just kind of get over it before you even started it. There's so many apps that if I can't figure it out right away, I'm just instantly turned off and I can't stand it. And Wattify is 100% not like that. So they gave me a deal that I think is absolutely insane. I've never had a deal this good on my podcast ever, I promise you that. It's 20% off of your first year of Wattify. So if you're a trainer right now trying to get your programs out there

or you're a gym owner and you don't really have a system that's all-in-one for your gym right now, this is a great chance for you to get 20% off for the whole year. That's insane. So if you have another software right now that you're using,

the Wattify people, the customer support will take all of your information and just transfer it straight over. It's no big deal. And you get 20% off for the year. It's insane. So it's Wodify.com slash chalk. W-O-D-I-F-Y dot com slash chalk.

C-H-A-L-K. That's it. Wodify.com slash chalk. You guys get 20% off for your first year. It's insane. I want that deal so bad. All right, guys. Without any further ado, let's get into this episode,

the battle with fatigue, dark horse training, changing the game. All right, guys, it's Tuesday. Welcome again to the Real Talk podcast. I hope you guys enjoyed last week's episode with Travis Kennedy, the Navy SEAL. We had so much good stories going on in there and just always always always super excited to talk to somebody in the military service especially people are in the special ops and I think for a lot of us who are kids um it's that was like one of those careers that we all wish that we could do at some point in our lives so that was a great great podcast but moving on to this podcast we're going to be with Mr richard diaz you guys don't watch my youtube channel uh

he is the man who broke down all of the running for us in that one um video called how to increase your running performance and there was like three different videos actually all three of them went well over 100 000 views one of them got like half a million and a lot of people are really really interested in what that man has to say and all of the things that I've been doing with him. Every time I go down to Malibu to go see him on my Instagram, people are always asking me, you know, what are you guys doing over there and all this stuff.

So Rich and I have actually been secretly kind of working on a new program for everybody to get really, really good at their anaerobic performance, their aerobic performance, and just learn how to use their body in a way that hasn't really been outlined yet. So, Rich, go ahead and say hello. Hey, how are you guys? Did I introduce that well? You did amazing.

I don't know. You might do this for a living, right? Every once in a while. So I'm real excited about kind of like the little thing that we have kind of going on. But what I really want to get everybody to get really interested in is some of the things that you have figured out over your very, very long career, which is how long? Shit, I'm old. You know me, man. I'm so old that my microphone right here is made out of wood. Really? No, I've been in the business of human endurance, I want to refer to it as,

for dedicated for about 30 years now. Wow, 30 years. It's a long time. I mean, honestly, I catch myself sometimes just kind of taken back by the depth of information I've been able to obtain and the length of time I've spent in this business. So I always catch myself when I do work with people in the lab and I start talking about VO2 testing and such. And I've tested thousands and thousands of athletes. It's freaking crazy. And I mean, it's crazy to me to think in terms of how many people I've actually interacted with, trying to get a sense of the way their body's responding to the work they're doing or what their goals might be and what that Rubik's Cube path is to get them to that place where they're going to achieve that end.

So yeah, I've been at it a long time. So throughout these 30 years, who are like some of your most prized people that you've worked with? I think it's important to note some of these people. You've had Olympians, you've had champions, all sorts of stuff. Yeah, you know, and it's really kind of cool because I got into a habit where when people would seek me out and I don't, didn't know who they were, you know, realize there's a lot of really smart and cool and proficient athletes in the world that I've never heard of. Right. We, you know, he does like what that guy did, what?

And so when I get this like strange name or strange request, I Google. I go out and find out, okay, who is this guy, right? And part of it is just want to make sure that the questions and the circumstances they're looking for me were legit, right? And so I'll give you an example. I get a guy that gets a hold of me and says, look, we're going to make an IMAX film, and I am going to

attempt to climb the seven summits. So these are all of the tallest mountain ranges in the world and we're going to get it done in one year. And guess what? I am not a mountain climber. And actually what I am is I'm a race car driver. So what I really need to do is figure out what physically I need to prepare myself for this challenge. Now, this is not a world beater type of guy, but it's an interesting project, you know. So that gets me excited to be able to, like, okay, what do we got to do with this? What are the weaknesses? What are the strengths? What do we have to apply to this process? And then I've had, like, I used to do some work with ESPN Sports Science.

And they'd call me up and say, look, Richard, we need you to come down because we're going to do some assessments. Or we'd like you to conduct some assessments on, for example, Tatiana McFadden. Now, Tatiana McFadden is a challenged athlete. I guess that's probably not the appropriate term. She's a wheelchair athlete. And she was born with spinal bifida, but she is a badass. Okay. This girl won the London Marathon, the Berlin Marathon, the New York Marathon, the Chicago Marathon, and the Boston Marathon in the same year. Three consecutive years in a row in a wheelchair. Is everybody in her class in a wheelchair? Yeah.

She smoked everybody in the world in every one of those marathons, I think three consecutive years in a row. And so they're like, we want to, you know, get a sense of what makes her tick, whatever. So I go in and, you know, we set her up on this really interesting little cart situation so that she can get on that wheelchair while I do a VO2 test on her. And what's interesting about this is typically like, for example, you come into the lab and I need to plug in how tall you are and how much you weigh and try to get a sense of the machine that I'm about to assess. Well, with somebody that has spinal bifida, they really have no weight from the waist down to speak of. But from the waist up, she's a monster. She's just really, really muscled and fit. And so what you do is you got to look at

their arm span. So you measure their arm span and you factor that in and you put them on the cart and you go for it. So this girl can roll. I mean, you're a cyclist. You've been on a bike and you know what this is going to mean. She can hold like 24, 25 miles an hour on that wheelchair with her heart rate being about 123 beats per minute. Wow.

You know, so you know what I mean? That's really fast. So, I thought that was pretty impressive. And I've done other projects like that with these people, but I've also worked with boxers. You know, I've had like the featherweight champion of the world who came to me from Jakarta, Indonesia. Now, out of the blue, okay, these guys walk in the door to see me

and I, you know and I don't know this guy. I mean, their crew looked a little unsavory, kind of scary looking, to be honest. And this little dude, this little dude weighs about, you know, when he fights at 126 pounds, right? His walk-around weight's probably closer to 140, but he fights at 125, 126. And so they bring this guy, and he is 46-0. He's never lost a fight in his professional career. Never lost a fight. He's like one of the baddest fighters pound per pound in the world, clearly.

As a matter of fact, he's getting ready to fight on HBO. And it's a big deal. So why is he there to see that? Well, so here's what happens. Apparently, he'd been training with some guys in Oxnard, which is the mecca for boxing in California, incidentally. And somebody was convincing him to get into a hyperbaric chamber. They told him, oh, yeah, you're going to get your O2 up, get your oxygen up, get your endurance up,

get in this hyperbaric chamber three times a week and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they started noticing that when he was sparring that he was like 50% of what he normally is. And they couldn't figure it out. They didn't point towards this hyperbaric chamber. We don't know what's wrong with this guy. But we got a fight coming up on HBO for a world championship. And this guy sucks right now. We don't know what to do.

I mean, his sparring partners are pussies. And he's getting beat down by these guys. So they give him to me. And they're like, all right, take a look at him. And I do a VO2 on him, sure enough. His VO2 pretty well sucks. And I start doing some research. And I find that this guy has what's referred to as toxic oxygen syndrome.

He's very, very, his particular body type is very sensitive to the highly oxygenated environment that was in this hyperbaric chamber. And it was basically killing him. Yeah, it makes you breathe 100% oxygen in those hyperbaric chambers. So basically, in theory, should be helping you recover more and all these different things. They're actually real big right now for autism and things like that. Well, so I know that there's a lot of pluses to it. As a matter of fact, when I went into the camp, and I'm talking about this is like a major training camp in Oxnard

with some of the best boxers in the world traveling in and out of there, they couldn't for the life, I mean, these guys were all doing the same thing he was doing. And they couldn't figure out for the life, they thought, you know, there's something wrong, we're just looking for excuses. Well, I did some research and I found there were some hockey teams that every time they traveled, they win. Every time they played at home, they lost. And the only difference between the two circumstances were they were in these hyperbaric chambers when they were at home for recovery.

And they figured out that this team was, the better part of the team was affected by this particular disorder. And we were, I think we were six weeks shy of, maybe eight weeks shy of a world championship fight scheduled on HBO. They were advertising it on television for the longest time, this fight coming up. And I had to, I pulled him from the, they actually gave him to me and I started correcting the problem. And, you know, once we figured it out and I showed him what was going on,

first thing I did is pull him out of the hyperbaric chamber and then I set about doing some training with him. And the management team says, nobody's touching this guy but you until this fight, which was like, whoa. I mean, I'm not proficient in working with world-class boxers by any stretch, but it's an interesting problem, right? And they identified that so far nobody's had a solution for this guy but me. So I start working with this guy. And we started healing him and he started getting to a

better place. And after about three weeks, we retested him and his VO2 score was back up again. But we still didn't have the confidence that he was going to be 100%. I had to write a letter to Golden Boy Productions to pull him from the fight. And that... Oh, wow. Yeah, that went global. I mean, it was like in the Jakarta news on the other side of the world, Diaz Human Performance pulls, you know, his name was... God, what's his name?

John was his last name. I don't know much about fire. Yeah, anyway, it escapes me now. But the point of the matter was, is that you asked me about interesting projects and interesting athletes. I've worked with world-class boxers. I used to do all the preseason diagnostics and Wingate performance testing for the LA Kings, working with all those hockey players.

I've worked with boxers. I've worked with cyclists. I've worked with runners. I've worked with all sorts of soccer players. And to me, what's interesting about all of this is just looking at the human condition and trying to consider what it is that we need to do in order to get that particular individual to be where they need to be in this regard. Incidentally, we haven't talked about it, but I met you by working with Hunter McIntyre, who is, at the time when I worked with him, he was the number one OCR athlete in the world. And I got a lot of prominence in that particular field from that.

I've never done an OCR event in my life. But now you're pretty much specialized in OCR now, right? All the runners pretty much come to you from that field, correct? All over the world. Yeah, it's kind of nuts, really. Over the last five years, I've become considered to be one of the most recognized go-to coaches in the world for that sport. Yeah. Just to backtrack real quick on the hyperbaric chamber, did you happen to do any research on hypo-baric chambers?

Because there's a big difference between the two. Right. It's a polar opposite, right? It's extracting the oxygen. Yeah. Yeah, the hypo one is supposed to be like kind of simulating altitude and supposed to help increase red blood cells. Yeah, yeah.

I did that. I did work with that. So, yeah, obviously I have athletes that are working at altitude, right? So the first thing they think about is we need to operate in a less oxidative environment in order to improve red blood cell count and things like this yeah and i've worked with guys that were actually making these things called o2 scrubbers have you heard of these things yeah i've seen these okay so it's like and they also have those uh those breathing apparatuses that you breathe in what are those things called um yeah well that's for respiratory

strength development you're talking about like yeah what is that things called um well that's for respiratory strength development you're talking about like yeah what is that thing called there's a bunch of them you breathe it's like an elevation mask oh yeah that thing doesn't work that's stupid some sort of crazy breathing but what i was what i was trying to get at was um had he been in a hypo bear chambers of a hyper bear chamber where he's been in the same same position um I don't think it would have made any difference, to be honest with you. I think that, first of all, I'm not real keen on that process of trying to improve the red blood cell count. I mean, they go to all these boxers.

They'll go to Big Bear and train. And, you know, fights being in Las Vegas, they'll go up, spend the last six weeks of their training camp up there and then fly down day before to Vegas while hopefully the red blood cell counts up, their oxidative environment's in a better place and they have more endurance when they fight. But trying to supplement it through getting these deoxygenating tents and circumstance like that, I don't know that it's much bang for your buck. I think it's just what you really want to do is you want to develop the energy system to

be more complementary to the challenges that you're facing. So in essence, that's what we've done with this book that we created, right? You know, it's kind of like in my wheelhouse to take a look at the problem and try to come up with a plausible solution to the problem. And that's essentially the problem for everybody listening right now. The problem right now is, I mean, and I think I can speak pretty well since I was competing for the last 10 years in the sport is no matter where I researched, I couldn't really find a clear answer to how I was supposed to train, not only for CrossFit, but just to get better at these functional workouts that were much different than what I was used to doing.

So in the beginning, you know, myself and everybody at the time, we would, you know, throw on YouTube or, you know, watch Instagram or whatever, and there'd be some video of Rich Froning training, and it would be, you know, five workouts a day, or he, watch Instagram or whatever. And there'd be some video of Rich Froning training and it would be, you know, five workouts a day or he was doing this and he was doing that. And like, they're not following strength programs. They're not following like, you know, typical running protocols. They're just doing all these workouts all the time and doing as hard as they can. And before you know it, the sport starts getting more money. A lot of these athletes, they go from

just training in gyms and coaching and stuff like that to becoming full-time athletes. So now you have full-time athletes that are expecting to win either big paychecks or getting sponsored by companies that are giving them relatively big paychecks. So they're getting a little bit more savvy with what they're doing, and they're seeking out help to make sure that they're on the best program possible. And I think you're seeing a lot of the athletes now, they're training, like the best athletes are training less than they used to back in the day. They're training smarter, and they have people underneath them or above them

that are actually helping them do the actual right thing. So even right now, in my opinion, there's nobody really doing the right thing. And you and I have talked about some of the people out there that are marketing to the endurance world and trying to get some of the athletes a little bit better with their long distance stuff. And even that, on paper to you, someone who's been in the field for 30 years, doesn't make sense. So after all this trial and error and you are a great problem solver, we've come to the conclusion that you've figured out a way to make people better in that little pain cave and get them through a lot more efficiently and do it with less work. Right.

So what is, what is your taglineline that you like to say for less work? I don't know. You have a certain tagline for that. It's like low economy, low cost. Oh, okay. Yeah, all right. So I never refer to it as a tagline, but it's basically the essence of what I am and what I do.

My focus in my work is to try to eke out as much economy as possible, and it's done through efficiency. So the two things are become efficient, become more economical, perform better. It's really what it boils down to. And I almost don't care what sport that you're dealing in. The principal considerations are if you're inefficient, you're not going to be economical. It's going to cost you more to get it done. And I've said this before on another podcast is basically so many people spend so much time watching Olympic lifting videos or watching running videos like the one that we made on YouTube to fix your form. Like, you know, if your foot is landing on the ground at the right time in the right position, you're going to be better at running.

You're going to be, you know, economically a little bit less taxing. If you're lifting weights, you're doing snatches or clean and jerks, you can keep the bar close to your body, you're touching your hips, you're catching at the right point, you're going to be able to lift more weights more efficiently, faster, and over a longer period of time, you're going to be less tired than everybody else, which is part of the sport of CrossFit. But nobody tries to figure out how to train in a training window to make you better in that training window. They're just like,

oh, well, I didn't feel great today, so that was my time in that workout. Or, you know, I went too hard out the gate, and that was it. And I'll try again later, and I i'll just go harder but what you've actually figured out which i think is so cool is you've actually figured out a way to pace yourself throughout these workouts to give you the best end result and then you have somebody who's been making workouts for years like myself who just put together the perfect workouts to kind of give everybody the uh the recipe to make it work and so they can see their progress along the way. So what exactly does this new little style that you come up with,

like without giving too much away, what exactly is going on that you can explain? Obviously, I know, by the way, but tell them. So the first thing we have to take into account is that the challenge that CrossFitters face in their competition is fatigue. And the fatigue is brought about by the lift, by the endurance event, and the culmination of efforts that they put together. But at the end of the day, the enemy is fatigue. And so when you isolate the problem to that one consideration, that what can

I do to combat fatigue? There's a couple of things that you can do. Obviously enough, if you were working and you're fatigued, you could stop working and you can recover. And then you could hope to get back in the game soon so that you are competitive, right? So at the end of the day, there is essentially two pathways we're looking at. You're either doing something to be aerobic or you're doing something to be anaerobic. That's your energetic pathways. Can we define those two real quick? Yeah, yes.

A lot of people don't understand. Right. So aerobic suggests that what you're doing is supplemented by oxygen. So at low-intensity work, your body processes oxygen. When there's oxygen available in your system, your body goes after fat stores, but it also has the ability to clear waste from the working muscles much more efficiently.

It has time to do it. And the intensity is not so great, and the flushing of lactate production in the body is met with, let's call it a fan. You're able to clear the smoke out of the room quicker. Anaerobic metabolism suggests in the absence of oxygen. So this is a completely different pathway, and it's an efficient pathway if you develop it. And so anaerobic suggests that you are soliciting to sugar stores in your body for one.

And when the principal energy is sugar, that means you're producing a lot of, well, through burning carbohydrate, you produce lactate. So let's look at it from an intensity perspective. Let's say that at 140 beats per minute, you're pushing, I'm just throwing some random numbers out here, but let's just say you're creating 600 calories of debt. But because of the intensity, you are now 100% of your sugar stores. That production of those 600 calories that were coming from carbohydrate are going to create lactate. And too much lactate that's residing in the muscle becomes problematic.

So anybody that's done any kind of a, I mean, I know your audience knows what this feels like when they get that lactate burn, and that needs to be solved. You got to clear that lactate. So you can clear it by stopping for a while, slowing down dramatically for a while, and let your body just kind of turn the fan on and oxidize and aerobically push that waste out of the muscles. But the problem with that is it takes too long to do it. And you can actually develop the anaerobic pathways, develop the anaerobic system so that it doesn't require nearly as much time to solve that problem. The problem is that every time somebody gets into trouble and they start

to get taxed, they reach for that aerobic component, they reach for that big time recovery, and the clock's ticking and the circumstance causes you to lose. So it's a function of time. Obviously, these events are a function of how much work you can produce in a block of time. And the conundrum was that I identified with is that a lot of conversation was going on about developing this aerobic pathway, developing your stamina and endurance through this aerobic pathway. And it's not where you want to be shopping when you're trying to improve your ability to support high intensity work at this level of sport? I don't know if I completely confused everybody, but at the end of the day—

No, I think that's really, really important to definitely highlight that. And I think that a lot of people are under the assumption that if they want to get better at these long-distance things, that they have to be constantly doing long-distance things. And then if they do actually decide that's what they're going to do, they're going to get worse at the things that they're to be constantly doing long distance things. And then if they do actually decide that's what they're going to do, they're going to get worse at the things that they're already good at. And I think that a lot of the good coaches will tell you that and they'll say, you know, you got to concentrate on your strengths, but they're trying to get better at these other weaknesses. And what they're doing is they're making themselves bad at pretty much

everything. Correct? Yeah. When you look at, When you look at endurance sports, like running a marathon or cycling or any of these sports where there's long duration, endurance oriented types of activities, they'll talk about developing the aerobic system, which is a really important component of that. But they'll also talk about what they refer to as lactate tolerance.

So lactate tolerance means that you're now in that pain cave. You're now into that lactate production. And it's a function of how... That's the most important part for everybody to remember right now is lactate tolerance. That's what's really, really important because everyone is thinking anaerobic, anaerobic capacity, but they're forgetting about lactate. I want everyone to remember right now when you're listening to this podcast that that

is the important thing that we're trying to talk about right now is how to battle the lactate. Right. So we're doing it in a scientific way. Right. So go ahead. Right. So the point being is that from an energetic perspective, if you're aerobic and you're burning fat, that's amazing. But the problem in this sport isn't a function of having enough energy to produce the work. The problem in the sport is when you're intolerant to the lactate production, it shuts you down. So if you have 2,000 calories of energy available in your system, you could go as hard as you want to for an hour and you're still not going to burn 2,000 calories. So it's not an energy deficit that's causing you to fail. So it isn't a function of what energy you're accessing. It's a function

of the fact that when you get into the pain cave and you're into that lactate hard because you're into your carbohydrate hard, what do you do with that lactate? Because if you can't move it out of the working muscles quickly, you're screwed. And if you're waiting... That's a very good point. I like that. And if you're waiting for this oxidative metabolism to come in and vacate that working toxin in your muscles to reduce that toxicity in your muscles, you're screwed because it's going to take too long.

But there is a path and I've outlined it in the book, that there is a path and there's a system that you can develop and hopefully manipulate to your end, which it's going to shorten the length of time you need in order to stay at that intensity you need to produce and or recover from the effort that needs to be recovered from. So I've done these workouts, obviously, and we've put Hunter through them, which if you guys don't know Hunter, he's going to the CrossFit Games this year. And he was a world champion OCR racer. So we've had a few people

kind of do these so far. And they are really hard for one, if you do them right. But two, let's talk about what it looks like. So like, if we're looking at a graph of what's going on throughout this workout, because everyone right now is like, all right, I'm in, he sounds really smart. I like what he's talking about. But what does this thing look like? So if we're looking at it on a piece of paper, it looks kind of like an infinity ring, correct? Right. Well, and what we've done, and I thought was interesting is that we've, you know, I made the joke in the running video we did that we're like peanut butter and jelly, okay? You're

the peanut butter, I'm the jelly. You're the expert in the workouts. And so I asked you, show me the workouts, show me what the challenges are physically so that I better understand how I can marry the cardiovascular component to this, the training that's going to improve that lactate tolerance to improve the ability to clear that lactate from the working muscles. And so I look at the workout, I look at the duration of the workout, and then I said, okay, this is the way we need to approach it. But what we've done that's different, and it's going to be a little difficult, I think, for a lot of people to chew on initially is that most training processes are developed in linear patterns. You start at X expense, okay, effort. So I'm trying to avoid the term heart rate, but I can't.

So heart rate represents cost of work. And you start out and you're aerobic and everything's peachy and everything's going well. And then we start to drop the hammer and we go up and we start to get into the pain cave. So the training, as it's written for most athletes, if they're even taking the time to look at the cost of work rather than perceptively looking at the cost of work, it's going to be linear. So you start low, you go high, you recover. You start low, you go high, you recover.

So it's a linear path, up and down, up and down, up and down. The body doesn't like to operate that way. And if you really think it through, when they talk about the cardiovascular system, another term for that would be the circulatory system. This process in where fresh oxygenated blood is working its way to the muscle, it's feeding nutrients, and then at the return visit through the venous system, it's starting to evacuate heat, starting to evacuate metabolic waste. But it's a cyclical event. And so if you married your efforts in more of a cycle and cyclical fashion and conceptualize what that might look like, which you don't need to because I drew it out for you. But it works like an infinity pattern. So the reason I like the infinity pattern rather than just creating a circle is we want

an ebb and flow in the effort. But we don't want a beginning and an end. We want it to be cyclical. And we want it to be infinity. We want it to be traveling up into intensity, out of the intensity, guarding both, guarding the level of recovery, guarding the level of recovery, guarding the level of intensity, and being progressive on both ends of it. And so what I did is I created this pattern.

And so, and by the way, I've been passing this off not just to the CrossFit community. I just did a big clinic recently where I had a bunch of people come in, like 25 people that I tested. And, you know, they're waiting for me to create these periodized workouts for them where it's going to look like what they're traditionally seeing. And I just said, you know what? Damn the torpedoes. I'm throwing it at these people and I'll see how they digest it. And first thing I did is I got on the dry erase board and I created this big infinity symbol on the board. And rather than talking them through what I'm doing, I just kept following that pattern. So try to imagine my pen is on the board and I'm following this figure eight pattern over and over and over.

That's based off of your max heart rate, correct? It's based off of your threshold. And so working off max heart rate suggests that if you go there, it's enough or not enough or whatever. So everything works off the nucleus, which is basically your threshold. And what else we did, which I thought was pretty – I blame you for this. You caused me to take the time to go through my data and research. And I took like a sampling of a hundred different athletes. And I created this model on developing a way to, you know, the average person can read this book and develop a very systematic approach to what their heart rate responses should look

like when they're training. And it's different than pretty much everything else that I've seen so far. And which was really cool because, you know, we're always relying on what somebody else said, right? You know, so even in the scientific community, like, you know, Karvonen said this so many years ago, and this must be right. As a matter of fact, the American College of Sports Medicine uses Karvonen's method of heart rate reserve to determine training heart rates, where if you really do the research, Karvonen developed those theories based on six people he tested.

It's not a very in-depth research study that he did to come up with this equation. And I found time and time again it to be ineffective. So what I did is, well, I've got more data than that. I've got thousands of tests that I can glean information from. So I took a sampling. I took like 100 people, 50 women, 50 men, and just started doing the math. And I came up with a really easy to follow equation, which helps you to get into a better place and know what to do with your work as you do it.

And so the cool thing about all of this is that peanut butter and jelly got together. We combined the work with an approach to developing this tolerance system, not just tolerance, but clearance. We want to get that lactate out of the working muscles so the muscle can continue to function. And that was what I was charged with is how can I, I don't want to try to change the workouts. I think the workouts are standardized. People already know them. They're already doing them and working on the efficiency with them. What I needed to do is find the economy that's going to be associated with the efficiency of the work they're doing. And I think we nailed it. I think so.

And I think there is a very, like, low-key validity to what you did. worse without actually doing what we're doing is like if you watch people like rich froning or matt frazier or some of the top athletes work out you can literally watch them especially when you're watching the games they're almost never in front the entire event there's a point where they pull back and they're in such and such place and then the announcer goes crazy and he's here he's here go blah but if you're watching these people if you are really studying these people as much as you study, you know, all the physiology that you're into, a lot of these athletes right now who are listening to this, they watch athletes compete the same way that you get excited about all these numbers. And they're, they're watching them go through the workout in such a way that they know that so-and-so is going to come back.

Or so-and-so has this one area where he is going to be better than everybody else or whatever. But you can actually see these people, the top athletes, breathing. And they know when to slow down. They know when to speed up. They know how their body feels. And they might not have this all written down for them but they're naturally intuitive to the feeling and i think that that's why they are where they are i don't think that every athlete is the golden child and they've just you know they're just genetically to the point where they're just always going to be like that

but i think they figured it out and i think if more people had something like this thing that you just made, this continuum, and they had access to what it feels like and what their body should feel like during these times, they might be able to get just enormous increases in their performance. Well, so the interesting thing about what you said, in my mind, is that these athletes have intuition. They've developed intuition over time. You can't replicate intuition. You can't look at the way somebody's doing something and the amount of time they're recovering and try to replicate that and cause it to be successful for you because you are not the genetic machine that that individual was.

You don't have the same circumstances or capacities that that person has. And as a matter of fact, you could follow a different path and maybe being in a better place. So that's the interesting component of all this. That's rampant in sport commonly. You see the guy, whoever's doing the best is the guy I should follow. Well, the guy's doing really well because he's got some things going on that you don't have. So all anybody can ever hope for is developing their own bodies and their own system of approaches

so that it works most efficiently for them. And that's what I think we've got going here is that we're giving them the path to follow so that they can develop their own intuitions and develop the cause and effect relationships in the workouts that are going to start to glean the responses they're hoping for. The pattern is not like, well, because Rich Froning did this, you do this, you'll be good too. I call that the study of one. That's a losing proposition every freaking time.

I fucking love that. And also, like in the world of social media right now everybody sees so-and-so doing something and then they start to follow it and they realize really quick that they can't do it anymore because it's it's not for them i mean it might not be smart it might not be for them that you know their their body is completely different the way that they take on stress and this and that you could listen to all these crazy stories and go on Netflix and listen to the, you know, the best boxer in the world story or this story or that story.

And they're all different. Like they all had different stresses in their life. They all had a different scenario. Like things just worked out different. And I think that's what makes, you know, great movies and stuff like that. Because everybody is so different.

It's not the same story. And I think our bodies are the same. And as athletes, we we're all the same we don't have the same story going on inside of us right but we can all follow something that tells us how to create our own story and i think that's like kind of what you created you created this continuum that shows you who you are and what you're capable of and i think that's what's fucking rad it's going to take some it's going to take some leap of faith on many people's parts when they start taking this on, because it's not going to be instantaneous results. You're not going to do one of these workouts or a week of these workouts, and all

of a sudden you're going to become a rock star. It's not going to be like that. Because what you're doing is you're stimulating your body, and you're stimulating your musculature and the way your cardiovascular system works. And that takes chronic adaptation. You have to put the time in to get the work. So when we first started talking about doing this project, you say, well, so we want to do like a month? I said, no, I don't think so. We need to do at least eight weeks because it's going to take some time to see the reward that you're looking for. And quite frankly, if someone's not prepared to spend eight weeks to get better, then I don't know what to tell you.

They're not dedicated enough for anything, really. Yeah, there's drugstores, I suppose, that can help you out if you really got to go down that path. But I'm just saying that it takes time. So training effectively is not instantaneous gratification.

It takes time. It's just like, you know, we were talking about Hunter a little bit, you know. He's been in the pancake for the past year trying to learn how to lift weights. And he realized very quickly that his inefficiency is what is the barrier to his capacity to pick up heavy loads.

And he's been working on it. He's been going around the world looking at various guys and getting various feedback from professionals to help him get better at that. He didn't need anybody to show him how to be an endurance machine. He was already that, right? And that, by the way, probably comes to him genetically because, you know, a guy as big as he is that runs as fast as he does and has the endurance that he had, that doesn't happen overnight. I mean, you're either really, really going to have to put in the work years and years and years and years and or you had genetic capacities that predisposed you to be able

to do it. So I think giving this program eight weeks, just, you know, drop your ego, drop all this crap that you hear, and just give it a chance and see whether it works. Worst thing you could do is like, yeah, I tried that, didn't work. I'm going to go back to what I've been doing. But I'm going to bet you dollars to donuts. If you do what I ask you to do in this book, follow that process, follow your workouts in conjunction with the way I'm approaching the cardiovascular treatments, you're going to see results. I think so. And I've personally done them and I can definitely attest to them. Hunter's done a few of them. I think he can personally attest to them. And yeah, I'm real excited to get it out there and have people try it out and tag

me in it and tag you in it and see kind of like what's going on. I think with all the other books that I've already put out, everybody's been really excited. I've only had, you know, pretty much five-star reviews on everything. And I think this is going to be probably the biggest one, especially because everyone's been so interested in all of this running stuff with you since the YouTube videos. And I'm just, I'm actually just honored and excited to just even work with someone like you. So I think the longer you're in this field, it starts to get more exciting when you meet more and more people and you're not the only one kind of grinding. You meet other people who are grinding in their area and the best of

what they do. And I'm just happy to have met you in general. Yeah, well, thank you. Quite frankly, I feel the same way. It's like you guys opened up Pandora's box by bringing me into the fray. And it's been fun for me because I needed to move around a little bit. I mean, I've been kind of, like you suggested, I've been almost exclusively dedicated to obstacle course racing over the past four or five years. And it's been good to me. It's been very, very good to me. It's still good to me. And I still enjoy the athletes I work with and coach in the sport.

But that's not who I am. I mean, honestly, I'm more the guy that wants to sit back and deal with new stuff, new challenges and circumstance. So it's fun. What we haven't talked about... I was going to say, I've been like that my whole life too. Every couple of years, I had to switch it up. And lately, people have probably been seeing me climbing big ass mountains and bike riding all over the place and stuff like that and i crossed it for like 10 years before that i was on the bobsled team and every every like five or six years i feel like i just get excited about something new and i think when you get excited about something new your heart's in it and you're you're there for all the right reasons and you're giving out the best version of yourself best best information that you can. I think that's where

you're at right now, so I'm real excited for everybody to kind of see, you know, what you've stumbled upon, or not really stumbled upon, but have acquired the knowledge to even stumble upon over the last 30 years. Well, you know what we haven't talked about, and I think it's also critical to discuss, is that we created this tutorial for the running. Now, obviously enough, we had some massive success on social media with the little thing we did where we basically broke down running mechanics and showed what it is you need to do in order to become a better runner. And obviously enough, I'm way vested in that process. I've been working with athletes for years, developing proper running

mechanics. And when we spoke about efficiency and economy, obviously that's been my game with them is in order to get faster, you need to run efficiently. If you order to reduce the potential for injury, you need to run efficiently. And so we created what I believe is a pretty strong, I think it's going to be about an hour long running tutorial. An hour and 10 minutes. Yeah. I broke, I broke it down from the ground up and you know, you were obviously integral in that process. I mean, geez, we had 300,000 views of the Running Mechanic video inside the first couple weeks that we put it on YouTube. And that was with my following of only 10,000 YouTube subscribers. So that's really impressive. It was pretty nutty.

And so what was really funny about it is, not funny, but interesting about this was, I thought, wow, this Ryan is a really popular guy, man. Look at, he's got 300,000 people looking at what he's doing. And it never dawned on me that what they also were looking at is they were intrigued by the importance of getting that information. You know, I want to know how to run so I don't jack myself up every time I try. And I have another video that's very similar to the one that you and I did that I actually created because it was just easy to hand off to people I work with when I'm trying to explain

to them what it's supposed to look like when they run. And I did this with one of my athletes. Matter of fact, he's the number one athlete in the sport of OCR right now, a guy named Vijay Jones. And that video was years ago, right? No, we did it about a year ago. Yeah. And it had like 400 hits on my site up until the time that I did the video with you.

And now it's like wrestling with the numbers you have. It's over 300,000 on my YouTube. Oh, wow. Yeah. So it just said, wow, people are that interested in this particular element of knowledge. It's like, we want to know how to run, Richard. And, you know, you and I got together on this and what a cool way to do this. We'll just bundle the two.

We'll give them the option of like, you want to learn how to run too? You want to learn how to do the CrossFit? Here's the book. You want to learn how to run? It's part of your element in your training. Here's a way to run. So we put those two together. So again, peanut butter and jelly. I'm hoping it's going to be as successful as I think it deserves to be. I can't even tell you how many people, when I walked in my gym the day after that video went out, the couple days after that

video went out, weeks after that video went out, people in my gym all the time are like, hey, can I have that guy's phone number? I think like I want to bring my wife, my wife there to go meet this guy. Like that video was so good. Or like, can you guys do another video about this? Or I'd be in an airport and somebody would be like, oh, I watched that video on YouTube. I was in 24 hour fitness. Literally, I was in 24 hour fitness just a few weeks ago.

Like, dude, that YouTube video with that running guy was great. Like, it's just a mat it just had massive appeal and like even uh one of these guys that works for me right now was like dude that video i would have paid so much money just to watch it you know what i mean like that was an that was an amazing video and i told him recently i was like hey i did another video with him it's going to be better and then we're going to talk about how to be like more efficient in your workouts and like it's going to be like this whole thing that like i'm really excited for and he's like oh my god like he's like freaking out so i am like really really excited

for it and i think that the crossfit realm like we haven't really had anything you know like really groundbreaking pop up there is that one guy who does endurance stuff with everybody forget his name what's his name do you know what i'm talking about? Yeah, I think his name is Chris Henshaw. Henshaw. So people have been getting stoked about Henshaw for a while. There is some gymnastics coaches out there, but I haven't really heard their name in a while. They're just not popping up in my feed or anything. There's not a lot of people right now where they're sticking out in my mind. Um, obviously the chalk programming that I have in my gym, like I, I see everywhere, but it's probably because that's my Instagram and everybody's always

tagging me and stuff. But, uh, to have like something new and groundbreaking and for something for people to get excited about, it's been a long time. So I think regardless, people are just ready for something new. They're ready to try something new. And because it's going to work, we have, you know, between the two of us, 45 years of experience going into this thing. And you have 30, I have 15. So I'm excited for people to try it out. I just want people to get excited about something. It's cool.

Well, it got me excited about something. It's cool. Well, it got me excited about something. You know, at my age, getting excited is dangerous. You've got to be careful. I'm 66 years old. No, but I am. I'm pretty enthusiastic about the whole thing. I think that it did kind of hit me like a rock when I kind of concluded like, wow, this is the way this needs to look. I mean, I'm writing another book, and we've been discussing, I call it Training the Dark Side, where it's about living in that toxic environment, but for endurance athletes.

And when I kind of… That's like a 500-page book. Yeah. But when I stepped away from that for a minute to work with you on this project, that's when it all kind of came home. And I find it interesting is that when you can't seem to find the answer you're looking for, and it seems like the way you're trying to garner this information seems to be the right path to follow, sometimes just turning around and go complete 180, go completely in the other direction, you find the answer.

And I've done this with people that are having issues with injuries and things like this. And it seems like so obvious that this is probably what it is. This is the culprit. Where in fact, when you've exhausted all your opportunity to figure that out in one direction, you can't find the answer, just going polar opposite in the other direction, boom, all of a sudden the answer reveals itself. And I look at this scenario like that because I wasn't thinking about doing this for CrossFit. It just like, wow, it just, it was what I needed to have happen in my life to make the other thing work. And it's going to make the other thing powerful. But I think the revelation that I had with the CrossFit environment in this

CrossFit challenge, I'm excited about it. Yeah. No, yeah, of course. I could almost do a whole nother podcast on just business and having those moments like that. And those moments are pretty much everything. And I think when you feel those moments, that's when you know you're onto something really, really big. So I definitely excited for for for both of us to put this thing out there and see how people dig it and it's always exciting to have everybody tag it and get all excited and

it's just cool for right now there's gonna be people who listen to this and they're like oh that sounds really cool and like they're really excited about it and other people that are just like oh that was a good listen and they might never buy anything. So just regardless, I'd like to always give everybody as much value as possible. Can you think of like maybe five things that you could give right now as tips to everybody to become a better athlete, and training that battle of fatigue, just like five tips right now that I mean, they just learned a whole bunch, but some five take-home tips that you can add for them. I think the first thing that's on my list when you're talking about this is that I realize, and it may not be across the board, but I know that

for the most part in the CrossFit community, there's not much in the way of tracking heart rate during training. And I think they think in that regard as being kind of an endurance tool, not something that is necessary in a high-intensity environment like CrossFit. But you've got to realize that heart rate is an indication of cost of work. I think it's a critical bit of information that you can be tracking over the course of your workouts. And if you're not using a heart rate monitor, my first tip would be get a heart rate monitor, use it while you're training. Maybe not while you're competing, but definitely while you're training so you could

start to identify the cost of work. Start to identify the time it takes to recover during your workouts. I think that's a big, big deal. Agreed after going with all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. So the other thing I think that since we're talking about running mechanics, a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid. They saw Born to Run, and they're trying to get into zero drop shoes. And they're trying to figure all this out, trying to get on their forefoot. And a lot of times they go into this, and they're unsuccessful with it. They end up injuring themselves, and they start to identify with, no, I can't do that because my knees are bad or whatever.

You've got to slow down. Even when you look at, if you happen to get a hold of one of my videos, the first thing you need to do is slow down and take the time to learn the work. Get the skills first before you start throwing intensity at it. Because if you just like turn 180 and start changing the way you move, you're going to start implicating loads on parts of the body that are not accustomed to getting that load. And most of this audience is strong enough to hurt themselves, no doubt about it. Going to jack up a hamstring and pull your calves, stuff like that. So slow down. I would also suggest from a running perspective is that you don't have two different types of training shoes. Even the shoes that you wear in the gym training should be,

and I'm sure they probably already are, very low profile, very minimal shoes to speak of. But don't decide when you run that you need to be in a big padded shoe because that's a mistake as well. Because the confusion between being low to high, low to high will also set you up for injury. Okay.

You want five tips, huh? What else can I share? It doesn't have to be five. Those were three really solid ones. Yeah. You know, I'm also a very strong believer in training barefoot. I know a lot of athletes do that in the gym. Sometimes they don't. But you have to realize that grounding

yourself when you're training is going to improve the neural conductivity between the mechanoreceptors in your feet and your central nervous system. You will actually become better at and more proficient at your lifts. So we'll give that as a lifting tip. Spend some time barefoot with your training. If you have an environment that allows you to do it, definitely do it. As a matter of fact, if you're training at home, I would highly recommend that you do some of the workouts

outdoors and preferably barefoot on grass. Even your heavy lifts. Because that's going to improve your lifts as well. So that's another tip. I think I'm shy of tips. No, that's pretty good. Any input at all on diet at all? Do you think that anyone should be following more of a high-carb diet or a high-fat diet,

or does it not matter? It just kind of depends on their body's anatomy, or what do you think? Well, I know in this space that carbohydrate intake is bad juju. A lot of guys are into high protein and sometimes even high fats. I don't know that that's going to need to change that much. And I can't believe I'm even saying this, but knowing this industry, knowing how this market flies is because you're not really going to deplete your carbohydrate stores while you're training day after day after day because the intensity and the duration of the work just

doesn't really deplete your carb stores. But I would absolutely suggest that you get high quality carbohydrates in your system. I would venture to say that if you got, I want to say upwards of 50% for this particular segment of athlete carbohydrate, you're in a good place. And that does, that might seem like a lot for some people, especially when they're really, really high protein athletes. But you realize that what happens is when your body starts looking for that sugar and it's not available, you go into what's called gluconeogenesis and your body will start stripping muscle in order to create sugar to placate the demand for the sugar that you're not getting through your diet. So I would not go as far as saying that carbohydrate is the enemy in this sport.

It's just not as necessary as it is in endurance sport. But I would absolutely suggest if you're going to stay shy of carbs, make sure that the carbs you get are good ones. Complex carbs. Don't be afraid of potatoes. Don't be afraid of rice. I sure that the carbs you get are good ones. Complex carbs. Don't be afraid of potatoes. Don't be afraid of rice. I think that even sweet potatoes, I know that's pretty popular with those that do low-carb diets. But, yeah, that's my take.

All right. That's great stuff. That's a wealth of knowledge for the last hour for sure. Yeah. So if people are interested in this book, you guys can go on my website at jimryan.com, which is G-Y-M-R-Y-A-N. And I'm hoping I can probably get this baby out probably the same time that this podcast goes out. What do you think? Is that doable?

Well, my work is done, my friend. My work is done. That would be on Tuesday, which would be the day the guy's listening to this. And then for everything that is Richard Diaz, where can everybody find you? Well, Instagram is kind of novel for me. I've never really been that big in it, but I do post things there more often than not. So my Instagram handle is at D-I-A-Z-H-P. If they want to see some of the videos that I have on injuries and running and stuff that

are on YouTube, they can go to my name, Richard Diaz. They can find me there. And, or if they want to go to my website, they can go to Diaz human performance.com and find me there. By the way, my podcast, natural running network.com natural. And then if you guys want to just follow him directly, like I'll be posting all sorts of stuff about the show and the book and stuff coming up all over my Instagram. if you guys want to just follow him directly like I'll be posting all sorts of stuff about the show and the book and stuff coming up

all over my Instagram so you guys will be able to find him and it won't be won't be too hard is there anything else you guys that you want to add

to everybody else out there in the world thank you thank you for giving me the opportunity to share whatever little bit I could with you

and I'm really excited and looking forward to seeing how this all shakes out. And don't be afraid to, you know, reach out to me and offer your opinion, your comments and whatever. And, you know, if you don't like what I'm doing, I'll probably just hang up on you anyway. So, you know, no, it's been great. It's been great. And I'm really, really excited to, I mean, we've said excited how many times so far in this podcast? Enough where I've finished a few times. Well, the point of the matter is that our enthusiasm should speak of the fact that this isn't just trying to pitch something.

It's like a discovery. In my mind, it was a discovery in my mind it was a discovery and I think that you discovering me and me discovering you and us together discovering a path that will help to improve athletic performance in this sport is just I'll say it one more time and I promise I'll never do it again it's exciting

alright yeah I feel the same way well thanks again for having the time to be on my podcast. I'm always excited to have people on who are really knowledgeable in what they do. Not only that, we've collaborated on something. We've been friends ever since the YouTube video.

It's been a great talk. I'm sure I'll see you again soon. This baby will be up soon. I'm real excited for everybody to listen to it, share it with all your friends, let us know what you think. I will see you guys on Instagram, Facebook, CrossFit Chalk, all that stuff soon. Thanks again. Cool.