Barbell Shrugged - Deadlifting Through The Decades with Doug Larson Travis Mash & Dr. Mike Lane #834

Episode Date: February 4, 2026

In this episode of Barbell Shrugged, Doug Larson, Travis Mash (powerlifting world champion), and Dr. Michael Lane break down how to deadlift across the entire lifespan, from kids learning to hinge to lifters in their 40s, 50s, and beyond chasing strength without paying for it later. They start with youth training principles that actually work: keep it simple, keep it safe, and keep it fun. Kettlebell deadlifts and goblet squats win early because they naturally put kids in solid positions with minimal coaching, while the real focus is learning a neutral spine, good mechanics, and building a positive relationship with training. Next, the conversation moves into the teen and peak-performance years, when athletes can build serious capacity and eventually push heavier weights. The guys lay out practical programming that prioritizes technique and volume tolerance over ego lifting, including linear periodization, conservative maxing through heavy triples, and velocity-based thresholds to keep athletes away from breakdown reps. They also dig into why deadlifting is not one-size-fits-all. Anthropometrics drive stance choices and sticking points, and the best assistance work depends on what is actually limiting you, whether that is front squats for getting the bar moving, RDL variations and bands for lockout strength, or staples like glute-ham raises and reverse hypers for posterior chain durability. Finally, they tackle the strength versus functional training debate and bring it back to real-world outcomes. Strength training builds the engine, sport practice is the most functional skill work, and instability training has a place but is not where max force gets built. From there, they map out how deadlifting evolves with age: more attention to stimulus-to-fatigue ratio, smarter variations like blocks, deficits, and trap bars with high handles, more respect for recovery, and more intentional periodization. The throughline is simple. Deadlifting can stay in your life forever, but the version of deadlifting you choose should match your body, goals, and season, not your pride. Links: Doug Larson on InstagramCoach Travis Mash on Instagram

Shrug family, I'm Doug Larson, and today on Barbell Strugged, we're digging into deadlifting through the decades with Travis Maff and Dr. Mike Lane. Between the three of us, we have over 70 years of deadlifting experience. In my peak performance years, as a welterweight MMA fighter, my best deadlift was 510 pounds, which is nothing compared to Travis and Mike. Travis was a powerlifting world champion, his best deadlift is well over 800 pounds, and Dr. Mike Lane, also incredibly strong, has deadlifted 750 pounds. And in this episode, We're going to break down how deadlifting should evolve from childhood to your teens, into your 20s, 30s, 40s, and beyond every decade of life is a little bit different. We're going to teach you how to teach kids to deadlift, how to hinge safely, why kettlebells and goblet squats are very powerful tools early on, how anthropometrics, which is your limb length ratios, etc., can influence deadlift style and weak points, programming for deadlift's, velocity-based training, as well as choosing deadlift variations that support longevity.

so you can stay strong for the rest of your life. So if you want to deadlift intelligently at any age and further optimize your long-term performance and health, this episode is for you. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Bobo Shug. Doug Larson here. My man, Travis Mash and Michael Lane.

Today, we're talking about deadlifting, which is, you know, as I announced when Dr. Mike Lane joined the show, I believe the title of that show was our new co-host, Deadlift's 750 pounds. So no stranger to deadlifting. with Michael Lane and then powerlifting world champion, Travis Mash, also no stranger to deadlifting. And then myself, I'm no powerlifting world champion, but I got long arms and a short torso, and deadlifting has always been one of my favorite movements by far. So we're going to dig into

deadlifting through the decades. What it's like to deadlift or to learn to deadlift more likely when you're a kid, you know, the benefits of deadlifting in your teens and 20s and 30s and kind of just how it changes, you know, throughout the decades. And all of us, we've been deadlifting for many, many decades each. So we have some experience here. Travis, when did you start doing heavy barbo movements and when did you start deadlifting? I mean, I started lifting when I was 11. And by the time I was 12, I was competing in power lifting. So it's been what's been 40 years. Yeah. It's been four decades of doing this. So yeah. I didn't realize you competed like right away like that. I did, you know, I jumped right. I was at a football camp and out.

Appalachian State and their coach was friends with the local coach at App State, the high school coach. And they were doing a weekend, a powerlifting competition. And they asked if anybody from the football camp wanted to jump in it and I jumped in it and I won. So right away, I was like, oh, I love this. I'm good at it. Yeah. Yeah, I had it in my mind that you were, and I think this is to a large degree true, like you were more of a weightlifter first and then moved into power lifting after you left the lymphed center because your dad and the whole you're more great there yeah so like in and then so like in

in high school we did a clean and jerk squat bedstead lift all throughout and so so i did in high school a kind of a combo of the two and then uh then i went to college and did certain conditioning but yes you're right as far as like when i really got into competitive lifting it was way lifting first because i went to the lumbit train center and then um um the town of the team the second so but you know you can say I did kind of both in high school, but you know, I didn't know what I was doing. But I just happened to be good at all of them right away. Yeah. You all love what we're good at.

So, Mike, when you started that, Lipson? So of all things, it was my dad had a set of weights in the house. And I think, you know, at one point, the bar was obviously on the ground and tried picking it up. And I was like, oh, this kind of sucks. And, you know, then, you know, from the same thing with good instruction in high school, it was actually the bigger, faster, stronger program.

Power clean, push press, and then, you know, and I realized that like, because of my also a very positive ape index, when they talk about the power position for cleans, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, you say getting the hang position and like, and then just jump. I'm like, I already am. Like, yeah, I have to move two inches to get to my knees. Like, this is not working. But go figure. Like, the first pull of the clean and or snatch, always been my friend because it's not there not very far but your guy who's going to have to bend their elbows if you're going to oh yes exactly people can just say what they want but you got point your arms you're going to have to binge your elbows and and i like we'll be talking

about that later of just the realities of anthropometrics and how that influences technique and then when i was in college i was exposed to the west side style training through the strength coaches that i worked with there and just go figure with my body type when people like you should build the squat the same amount you deadlift. I'm like, oh, shit, I stuck in swatting. Because I can deadlift hundreds of pounds more arbitrarily over that. And so, yeah, turns out I like deadlifting. So I keep doing it because it makes me, you know, feel like I'm.

Yeah, exactly. Like, I is strong. Stuart, you are strong. 750 is a monster. Yeah. That's a monster deadlift. It is. Yeah, I'm saying, like, I was deadlifted about 25% more than I squatted.

They were not, they were not the same at all. Granted, that was, like, totally raw in every way. I don't have to squat suit and all that to fill the gap. But I got a long arms and short torso. So the deadlifting was just always easy. Easier anyway. It's easy than that all. I was 804, 804, 804.

When it's all things the same when you're raw, I'm 804, 804. Oh, yeah. The deadlifting suits do not do the Lord's work that the bench shirt does, much less what a good canvas triple ply is going to do in the squad. They might very well mess a lot of people up, I think. I look at some of the straw men. I look at what it's doing. to them, a lot of them would be very, they would be better off just not having one.

You know, they get all rounded and contorted on like, if you can get a better position, you'd probably be better off. And just kind of to jump ahead there, when you think about the anthropometrics, one is, you know, some folks, their problem is the lockout. And the deadlift suit just helps the start. You're on your own locking that thing out. So hence, if you're somebody that has problems starting at the bar off the ground, it can maybe have some utility.

But then also when you talk about strong men, you get to the point where you might have a waist girth that requires you to be in a slightly flexed position in the spine to get into the start position. And so, and that's kind of, I know we're kind of jumping a little head there. That's why there's, I'm not going to hate on somebody pulling from blocks. If you got T-Rex arms and, you know,

long legs, because unless you've got incredible hamstring flexibility, like you're asking for it. Yeah, you're putting yourself in a bad position. I agree. Yeah. So one, go ahead.

I was going to transition to kind of the first decade of life here. I know, Travis, you got three kids that you're lifting with on a regular basis. Like, how have you approached, you know, of course, all lifting, but the deadlift specifically with your boys on the older side? Well, even with my six-year-old daughter, like right now there's zero, well, when you say zero flexion, that's silly, because everybody's fine, you know, and they looked at it and they the studies, everybody flexes somewhat when they deadlift. But I am looking for as neutral a spine as possible.

You know, when I start to seal a lot of, especially, well, even at this age, even, you know, thoracic, you know, flexion, I'd stop it. So I'm looking for a neutral spine. And plus, I'm looking for it to be more of a specific to weightlifting. You know, I want them to be really good at weight lifting first. And then I'll let them do whatever they want. And then as they get older, you know, if they say they want to love power, the thing then then at that point i'll let you know some thoracic flexion is fine i think but right now

i'm looking for as neutral spine as possible so yeah i mean my boys right now are our seven nine and ten and you know throughout the last couple of years any any real amount of deadlifting we've done together has been basically like kettlebell deadlifts yeah for the most part like we've done some barbell stuff and talk to you know do cleans and snatches with the training bar and you know you know a little bit of heavier weights uh but for the most part i'd say the vast majority of the rest have been kettlebells. It kind of automatically turns it into like a sumo without really trying because their feet are on the outside of the kettlebell and their hands are in the middle.

And that seems to be like the way that I've found that's just like automatically the easiest for them to do correctly. You don't have to really teach very much. Of course there is some instruction there, but teaching kettlebell deadlift to young kids seems to be an easy win in my experience. Doris, I agree with you too. Yeah, a kettlebell, you can do a lot of cool things, you know, like even teach them to squat, You know, like as soon as you have them hold a kettlebell out in front of them,

they're naturally going to squat perfectly. And I recommend any parents listening, the less teaching you can do, the better. If you can just, you know, find a movement that just automatically puts them in the right position, you can't lose there. You know, the more you have to say, the less it's going to be, you know, the less it's going in their brain, I think. Yeah, I fully agree. Yeah, to teach them goblin squats as the first squatting movement is like they're automatically going to do it right. if you're trying to teach them another movement and you have them to sit there and explain and critique and oh no like

no no no you're losing you're losing you're losing they don't want to talk about them they just want to do it right you've got 10 minutes to get their attention and to keep it and so if you if it's taking you 10 minutes to discuss it you've already lost yeah so you want to get in and get them doing something in about 15 minutes and then after that let them play so this is what yeah even then when you're thinking about that exercise selection there's something about you're teaching them to learn how to listen to their own internal cues. Yeah. Because a goblet squat, just like a deadlift, your body's going to figure out like, oh, that was stupid.

I probably shouldn't lift that again that way. That's why, you know, their squat posture looks great when they're, you know, just learning how to stand because it turns out there, if I remember correctly, if you were to duct tape a 45 pound plate to the top of your skull, that's the equivalent of what your head actually weighs relative to the body as a toddler. Yeah. No wonder they're like perfectly upright and they look so good. good you got no choice and so hence it corrects itself and the nice thing is the likelihood of a career ending injury for a four-year-old picking up a light kettlebell you know pretty damn low yeah but you know i love avery fakingbaum he's become

yeah yeah the guy's become the master some memes just like if it was it the lately he said um if if exercise is medicine then non-exercise is like cruelty or something like, you know, it was like, he's a dangerous disease state. I'm not going to discreet them. And you think about if they just have all those moving capacities down and they just learn how to intuitively move their body in space, like, you know, my daughter is only to the point now where she's walking. So I'm actually starting her off with medicine ball deadlifts.

Yeah. So by that, I mean, right now it's like ball pit balls. Like, go figure. Yeah. You know, she's got to put tacky on her forearms to do strongman stuff. My wife's not about that for some reason. You know, we'll get there. You know, we'll get there.

I believe my six-year-old is going to be the best of all. I mean, I hope they never hear this, but pretty sure Magnolia is going to be the best of the three when it comes to weightlifting. She just naturally gets it like, like she gets the day one I taught her to snatch it took me like 10 seconds. And she just started matching. And I'm like, oh, this girl's is natural, you know. The boys took a long, you know, it took a long time. I know you did. How old to Rock and Bear?

See, we got Magnolia is 6, Bear is 9, and Rock is 11. And Rock is going to be, he's competing at the youth nationals this year. So at 11, and he's going to do really well. Like, he's really good at weightlifting. Not to do my, you know, like, I'm just comparing it to people off coaches the past, but he's really good. Yeah. Bear is going to be, he's going to be a different level of strong.

And then Magnolia might be the best of the three. So it's crazy. I see them lifting on Instagram. I'm very impressed. I love it. I love that they're coming to get me to go downstairs. It's like I just don't want them to see how happy. I don't want them to know how happy makes it.

But like when they say, yeah, can we go work out? I mean, like every time I'm just like, oh, I'm so happy. What I always wanted. I did not want to have to say, hey, do you guys want to work out, try to encourage them? Because it'll turn it into something they don't like. So yeah. Yeah, you don't have to course your kids into training. No, no.

It's something we have fun on. I will say this for the parents listening. I do have to be careful, like bear because I see so much potential, and he's only nine. I'll push him too hard. And like, I catch myself all the time. And like, I'll stop and I apologize and be like, I'm sorry, man. It's like, I just want it to be fun.

But I just see that he's going to be so strong. It's just, I just innately want to, like, push him. And I'm like, I'm going to be careful, Sam. And I think that lends itself to another point, which is at the end of the day, you're laying the foundation. Both the enjoyment of exercise is a really good movement. Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the Artei program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garland and I have learned over more than two decades of working with some of the world's most elite performers, award-winning athletes, billionaires, musicians, executives,

and frankly, anyone who just wanted to be at their absolute best. Artae is not a normal coaching program. It's not just macros and a workout plan. It's not physique transformation and pre-imposed pictures. Aratee is something completely different. Aratee is incredibly comprehensive and designed to uncover your unique molecular signature, find your performance anchors, and solve them permanently. You'll be working with not one person, but rather a full team of elite professionals,

each with their own special expertise to maximize precision, accuracy, and effectiveness of your analysis and optimization plan. Artae isn't about treating symptoms or quick fixes. It's about unlocking your full potential and looking, feeling, and performing at your absolute best, physically and mentally, when the stakes are the highest. To learn more, visit Arteelab.com. That's A-R-E-T-E-Lab.com. Now, back to the show. you're laying the foundation both the enjoyment of exercise is really good movement so once they've got an adult skeleton you know once rock is his his bones are rocked up yeah you know those growth plates are fused let's let's go yeah same thing like i didn't finish puberty until i was a 20 year old my wife was full grown at 12 so like if my daughter's like hey i want to go for it and be a real powerlifter and she's saying that when she's 14 i'm gonna be like well uh uh you still got two inches taller last year.

So I'm just going to focus on you know how to do the movement really well. And if we do a competition, your max attempt is actually going to be what I think is really your 2RM. I don't care who's the best in junior power lifting. The compression for the epiphizio line

or the growth plate is actually good, you know, if done properly, you know, like, bingo. That's the key thing. It's the dose response because I love how it'll stunt your growth. If working and moving weight cause you to stunts you, growth, every kid that grew up on a farm just this angry

dwarf. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, dude, you moved hay bails a kid. How'd you know? Like, shit. There would be no, Brock Lester. Brock Lester would be like two foot tall. Yeah. Speaking of which, you guys need to look up the performance athletic that his daughter

has done. She is an insane shot putter. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, go figure apples and trees, right? And so it's just fascinating when you think about it looks and the opposite should be true that means every sedentary kid should be seven feet tall yeah because they've never put any pressure on their growth plates exactly and like it's exactly it falls on its face but yeah there are parents that are like I'm going to have my kid

max deadlift and he looks like my dog having a bowel movement in the back door I'll do it now I cut it immediately like I'll tell you set it down anytime I see the you know any amount of even in the thoracic spine I don't want any of it right now you so and later like you said when it's all done and then it's fine. But that's where it could, you know, the growth plate, when you start having, like, you know, different types of tension or like force. So I want just compression lined up, you know,

I don't want any kind of bending necessarily. Yeah, you're getting sheer no matter what. But the question is you're not trying to get asymmetrical sheer compression on one side of the disc, tension on the other because definitely don't want towards not stacked. That's where, you know, if people really care so much about the growth plates, then you better not be playing any type of soccer or football at that age because that's where you really can go wrong.

You have your foot, turn, and twist the pieces of a line. And then you have major problems. Yeah. It's a bit of a landmine field to navigate. But the reality is at the end of deadlifting, you had yourself set on the ground. Right. Object is stationary. Like there is no reason you can't focus on perfect technique.

That's a thing, like, don't get me wrong. As soon as my daughter wants to play ball sports, like, we're going and we're doing them. But the chaos of sport, the likelihood, that's the fun part of soccer. Like, it's not just kicking the ball from a stationary doing a PK, but the actual dribbling it down the field, you know, receiving a pass, passing someone else. Like, there's so much more chaos there. So like, this is why. Right. Technique should be as perfect as it gets.

Right. Because there's no excuse not to be. But then we get to the chaos of the field, you know, just like wrestling at MMA. I mean, how many, the Caroline toss, I love watching. watching videos of it. And that has to be like what I consider the most manly, manly deadlift you can do of exerting your will in another human being that doesn't want you to pick them up off the ground. You're going in final flexion. You know, you're definitely an unstable load. But obviously, he literally got a name moved after him. While he did that with super huge or super

heavyweight humans that did not want to be removed from the earth. Right. Elaine, you know, I do want to ask you a question. I just saw, because it relates to, you know, the deadlift. I saw where it was Lane Norton, was talking about the latest, studies about basic strength training was, you know, it was a study where they looked at like functional training as it compares to just basic strength, like squatting, deadlifting, and its effects on athletic performance. And even they even compared it to some ply metrics and jumping and the basic strength training far exceeded the benefits than functional training or even pliometric training. Did you see, are you familiar with? Yeah. Yeah, I was it with the soccer athletes,

I believe. Yeah, with soccer, exactly. It was that. And so, you know, with that context, it's just the simple reality of, so I think of a resistance training. What's it mostly doing? It's improving the torque the engine can produce into a certain amount the horsepower. If we're doing pliometrics, really we're just working on your transmission. Right. Like, however much horsepower you have, how much torque you're probably not making a big difference. And then if we're doing nothing but quasi and functional is such a giant umbrella that it's kind of ethereal. But the subpoenaality is

functional, like instability training. Instability training is really good for coming back from an injury where your problem is your stabilizer suck. But the problem is, is your body naturally is going to downregulate your ability to use your really powerful muscles because it's, right now it's icy

outside where I live. Like as soon as I'm on a patch of ice, all of a sudden I am very meek in taking small steps like a mole person because my body intuitively knows I don't want to shit. Yeah. You know, and so with that being said, you put us on solid terra firma with shoes that are linking up. You can produce maximal force and use those big muscles. And then you're doing the sport training, which is doing the functional training, sorry, ear quotes, that is going to get you better as your sport. So if you're in the gym, we don't need to, but it would actually be

fucking hilarious is if we were to have athletes practice kicking like weighted soccer balls so they can somehow get better. And then we wonder how they break a freaking toe. Oh, I've seen these crazy stuff. Yes. Yeah. Instead, we can focus on them using heavy barbell movements that, again, are really safe. And then in turn, now when they go to the sport, they've got a bigger, stronger,

and quite possibly more powerful body that's going to go and go over there. My anecdote I tell my students is if we test for steroids in the sport, being stronger is an advantage. And so. Amen. Amen. Like, if getting strong did not relate to athletic performance, then why did, you know, Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire start jacking home runs when they took steroids? When all that happened was their ability to produce force went up. And why are people trying to actively get weaker?

Yeah. Right. So, right. You know, it's, don't get high on your own supply. There's a certain amount of individuals that have motivated reasoning. and, you know, I will always remember whenever I was actually doing my master's degree and one of the guys I worked with as a personal trainer, Anheuser-Busch, was all up on the bosu ball training and everything like this.

So he was in a split squat. So one foot on the front, bozo ball, one foot on the back, bo-soo ball, and he had a medicine ball. He was like, just talks to me to the medicine ball. So because he was telling me how like power lifting is in functional, blah, blah, I'm like, okay, whatever. he was getting high on his own supply. She was like, okay, like, he just tossed me the medicine ball. I'm like, you know, so he just

meekly throw it over to him. He's like, see, look how I absorbed the force, look how. And then he throws back, look how I return the force. And he's like, I was like, do it again. I'm like, you sure? And he goes, yeah. And I rifled that sucker as hard as I could at his chest. Took him right off of the on there and had to do his side stuff. He's like, dude, that was too hard. You can't do that. I'm like, so you're telling me that's your functional

training. The second we go full speed in a sport, it falls apart. Sucks. And mind you, I was. young and being obviously inconsiderate to his ego in that moment. But the simple reality is. Well, time in a place. I saw the same thing happened in Westside Barbell when someone made the same mistake in front of Louis.

And that was another funny story and another time. I'm sure. I'm sorry, Louis wasn't concerned about the guy's ego at all. At all. Oh, no. It didn't give a shit. Yeah. Louis, but I mean, that's the simple reality.

Like if, you know, go back to weight class sports. If you tell me that I got to go fight Brock with Lesnar, like, no. I want to get strong, real strong. Yeah. I want to somehow find a way to also gain six inches and, you know, increase my type muscle fiber. And I want to have a pistol and I don't weigh him to have one. Yeah.

Well, you know, now we're getting to. I do think there's a time and place for both of those things. You don't have to pick one or the other. Like you can, for the moment, that's to say functional training is just like kind like coordination training. Like it's like skills training, coordination, training, balance, coordination, agility. Like, those are all important qualities to have. but you shouldn't choose that 100% over getting bigger and stronger,

especially if you are in a combat sport or you play football or something where it's like very obvious that being bigger and stronger is the answer. Right. But you can do both. But there doesn't have to be this like budding of heads like we're right, you're wrong. Like you can do both. Like if you're just a power lifter and you're kind of uncoordinated, if you're just a power lifter and it doesn't matter that you're uncorordinate

because nothing you do requires any more coordination. beyond being able to squat and delve off and bench very, very well. If you can do those things well, and now all you're doing is just getting stronger and your numbers are going up, then you're doing what you're supposed to do to advance in your sport. And so everything's fine. And there's no reason to worry about doing anything else because you're making progress like you're planning on making progress. I think West Side Barbell, a lot of problems they had is they never looked coordinated.

I mean, I remember watching them squat and like, number one, it was like, are they even going be able to get this thing out of the rack. You know, like, it would take, like, vocal pull like three attempts to, like, get the bar up, and then he might fall. And then finally, if he sets this perfect groove, he'll squat a world record. But it would look so awkward and, like, you're just waiting. As his competitor, I'm holding my breath to see, am I, is he going to be able to get one in?

Am I going to have a competition with him this time? You know, but then finally he would hit him to brew, all right, perfect. Now he's in the meet, so now I've got to compete against him. but like they never looked I never had a problem with that it's like I just picked it up and squat it's like well and to go to Doug's point even more with the problem and I'm not trying to make a strong man argument out of those things and that was a strong man example I used earlier there's nothing more functional than playing or practicing the sport plain and simple you know I am unequivocally a better deadlifter than I'm pretty confident to say probably most people that would be competing in jiu jiu jitsu and my body weight I however do not know how to do jujitsu. So if someone's my body weight and they know what they're doing, I'm going to feel the floor and or be tapped very quickly because raw strength is useful, but skill is the most important thing in the sport. So I think where people get lost in the sauce, so to speak, is they forget the sport itself is the functionality you're looking for.

And obviously when we think about function in life and going back to the deadlift, picking up an object off of the ground is something that's going to come up frequently in your day-to-day life. Now, don't get me wrong, the level of strength that I have is, yes, is really high and I like it because it's cool. But at the same point, if I got to pick up a heavy object off the ground, the likelihood that it has a perfectly neural handle that is going to be where I can set up. So my feet are directly underneath its center of gravity is not very high. you know so if anything debatably stone lifting is more functional

but of ears because the likelihood that'll have to you know stand the stride of something and then get my hands underneath it and pick it up is way higher so yeah yeah I think that there's pros and constant pros and constant time and place for all this stuff

it's a needs analysis it's like what is the constraint in the system if you are a super coordinated person already and you're going to get to other super coordinated people in a you just to match, you're both black belts and you're both coordinated and this other person is just fucking way stronger than you because you have equal skill and that person is just a better athlete at the same level of skill, then you got a problem on your hands. You need to go get stronger.

But like in your case, if you're already, you already bench press fucking 200 pounds more than the other guy and keeps beating you, then bench pressing 10 more pounds or 20 more pounds isn't going to solve the problem. So it's just what is what is the need? What is the constraints? Why are you losing and why are you not excelling at the pace that you could and go do that thing? do the thing that's going to actually make you better? Because there's a diminishing return on both sides. Absolutely. Totally agree.

So, yeah. All right. Wait, so we did the first decade of life. We're happy to do the show. We've gotten to age nine. Age 11. Okay, so first decade of life, very obviously play, enjoying training, and just getting some sense of what a quality movement pattern is,

is obviously kind of the first step here, probably very similar for the teen years, except now you can start to, you can start to load a little more. You can start to do a little bit more volume. You can start to be more of like a real lifter in your teens. See, I started with bigger, bigger faster,

stronger as well when I was 14. That's when I started doing heavy barbed moves. First time I ever cleaned and squatted and did deadlifts. And one of the first real experiences I remember from deadlifting was, I was doing trap bar deadlifts in my high school weight room. and I was probably 14 at this time, and I had 225 on a trap bar, so 2.45s per side, and I did a set of 20.

But my whole exposure to, the reason I was doing 20, because my whole exposure to squatting was 20-rupt back squats. That was like my initial exposure to squatting. Every Monday. And you sneak with it? Oh, yeah. Every Monday, add five pounds and, like, be nervous.

The whole school day, knowing I had to do 20-rep back squats with five more pounds in last week because last week was really hard. And I remember adding 100 pounds to my 20-rette back squat over the course of my sophomore year in high school. And I fucking put on like 20 pounds of body weight. I was doing another lift too. But yeah, but because of that, I did a set of 20 with 225.

And then my strength coach, Mark, at the time, like I just met him at that time. And he's still a great friend of mine to this day. He came over to me and he was probably 20. He's only 10 years older me. So he was like 24 or 25 at this point. He saw me do the 720, came over with a 45. in each hand and put them down in front of me and said, I don't think you're man enough. And I was like, all right.

So like slapped on 315 and it was able to rock out like with the high handles with good deadlift leverage like rock out of so 20 with with 315, but it was a fucking hard set. As you can imagine as a hundred and I was probably 180 pounds maybe at the most at the time, 175. And that was like my first, it was like the first deadlift set that I remember ever doing like hard set. And that that was like that was the beginning for me when it was 14. team. I did the I did the 20 rep, you know, the one by 20, a few. I did it even after I was the power of the team just because it was a friend of mine challenged me to do it. Like it's so terrible. It's so terrible, you know. I'm trying to squat 500 for 20 was my goal, which I did. But then I mean, I threw up so much. Like, I'm not sure anything good happened other than I did it. You know, like, like, I wonder if I, you know, might have had like, uh, uh, uh, rabda. eat Coca-Cola when you use the bathroom, you're okay. I'm pretty sure it would be brown, but, you know, I survived it.

I lived through it. Yeah, we'll get to the later on effects of age, but yeah. For teens, true. You know, and that's where you can establish that technique and it really start to progress the load a bit more. The key thing is, and this is just me, I'm naturally a very risk-averse person when it comes to things like that. It's just one-R-emming until we got that adult skeleton.

You know, it's like you've been around 15-year-old men and 18 year old boys, like really weird when you get into those teenagers. But if you know, you've got good technique and you're doing that for heavy triples, heavy sets of five, there's nothing wrong. And the only reason I don't say a 1RM is because of the sheer ego. If you do a 3RM and the third rep is where you start to lose your back, the likelihood of your hurting yourself is kind of low. But if you're chasing that 1RM, you don't have the good rep potentially unless you've got a good coach.

And even then, if I had you coaching my kid in the background, I'm not worried about you one arming my daughter. But if I've got, you know, obviously there's very big heterogeneity in your strength conditioning professionals in some chase weight. So making sure that you've got everything established. And I just love it for the fact of you show me somebody who's a good dead lefter. You have to have so many tissue or so many different parts of the body have to be strong. Because your hands are weak, you'll never get the bar off the ground.

If your back's weak, you know, we know obviously you're injurious. But how many guys have you met? They actually have a pretty strong core, but their legs, just aren't strong enough. Their hips, you know, their hamstrings just can't get the weight up. And it's nice because it immediately becomes its own little

showing up the weaknesses and you kind of a needs analysis. Like, oh, man, this kid doesn't understand they have hamstrings or their hamstrings are like both strings. It will let them get over. So we got to start off with RDLs just to get to where we can flirt with the ground, much less doing conventional deadlifting from the ground. What are your thoughts on straps with the deadlift?

So at the end of the day, it's what's the rate limiter. So if I'm working with somebody, and like Olympic lifting is a great example. If I'm going to be hook gripping in competition and I don't want to beat the crap out of my hands with hook gripping every single day in the gym, damn straight, strap up so you're not going to have that issue. If I'm working with a wrestler, then that's a situation where I kind of want to almost avoid straps for the most part because I want you to develop that hand strength to go with it. But even then there's nuance to it. So like if I know your limiter is your grip, I mean, that's where you can talk about fat bar deadlifting. which is real humbling.

And you're trying, or even, you know, or double overhand, non-hook. Exactly. Double overhand. I love that lifting like that. Now, that is where I will get into, and this is a conversation, and I'm dating myself,

and this is who I talked with. It was awesome. It was Brad Gillingham and Terry Todd. The man, both. And so, oh, absolutely. And we were talking about, like, literally, I think it's Mark Felix. His hands are so big.

They had to make it illegal to hook grip an axle. in competition because he can get his thumb around the freaking bar. Yes. If I remember correctly, it wasn't Mark Henry. It was Mark Felix that supposedly his hands are that big. The dude can hook grip a two inch axle. Like for those of you listeners at home, go when you're next time you're in a bar, you do this in a bar, that'd be weird. You're in a wait room and go to the sleeve of the barbell and try to hook grip the sleeve. That's how big his hands are. And so, but I do love double overhand because again, it's its own rate limit. And, And if you're going to do power lifting, nothing wrong with an over-under.

But after talking with Brad Gillingham, concerns about biceps, I am more of, because I've got big hands, I'm a hook grip guy, double over him. That's just how I pull now. Not that I've got a huge risk of tearing a bicep, but I'd rather just mitigate it. I did my best ellips, double-over-hand hook. You know, I never did the over-under. So as I came, you know, because I'd been power, you know, weightlifting. So, like, never made sense to do over-under.

I was like, that just looks like it's going to hurt me. You know, like. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and just the natural of, you know, turning one wrist over, you know, one hand supernatal, one hand pronated, you're naturally causing one arm to be shorter and the only longer. And so for some folks, that actually might be a solution because they have an asymmetry in their arm length and allows them to pull the bar evenly. For a lot of people, it's going to cause one side to be slightly higher than the other.

And this is just minuscule increases in risk. But if I'm dealing with a high schooler, I don't care what their max deadlift is. I just care that they deadlift well. Right. So I'd rather than go double overhand. chalk it up, probably not, definitely, probably not strap

and probably not even hook grip it because I'd rather their failure point be their hands, not their spine. Really their spinal erectors. Oh, yeah. So it's just a natural limiter.

Yeah, I like that. Yeah. But if I'm working with a track and field athlete, holding baton is not hard to do. If they got bigger, beefier hamstrings

because I can have them do heavier weights on RDLs, then yeah, we can strap up because I don't care that that's the way homeowner. So it's high reps too. You know, you're doing RDLs.

Most of the time you're thinking about six, eight reps and so that can be a punisher on the hands. Yeah, and they're getting grip endurance on top of that. So that's, yeah, that's a challenge. So yeah. So for an experienced high school kid, Massey, you put a lot of high school kids. You made a lot of kids strong over the years.

Yeah. What's like an example of sets and reps, volume, weekly volume, loading, percentages, all that stuff. Oh, you know, like I rarely for high school kids, you know, I'm going to do a traditional linear periodization starting with tens, you know, spend four weeks tens. It's like the block utilization, you know, then we go to fives. I have learned to spend more times. I feel like, you know, based on the latest research with hypertrophy, you know, sticking with fives longer than one set of four week block, like if I'm getting results, you know, I'll keep going to, you know, eight, you know, eight weeks. of fives, you know, because it's just, I feel like you get the bang of the biggest bang for your buck. Then I'm doing the traditional, then, you know, a set of threes and then let's see what happens, you know. And I will still max out even my high school kids, except I use velocity now. And like it just is the limiter will be based on a certain velocity.

So it keeps them from, you know. I love the idea of for velocity for high school kids for the teen years on things like that, from just for any movement, really. Any of the big lists, like velocity is fantastic. Totally. And just for people listening, like some good, you know, like if you're doing a squat, like point three is a good, you know, that's, they're going to fail around point three. So keeping it point three five or point four and above, you can't go wrong. You know, and then when it comes to like a benching or deadlifting, those are very similar when it comes to the, you know, the, the minimal velocity threshold, you know, so like you're going to get probably about point, you know, two five. When you're getting there, you're going to miss. 0.3, you can't go wrong. Yeah, he's talking meters per second for those that aren't familiar with velocity-based training. And with his communist units, the thing I would also suggest you use for home is that you go and if you've got a velocity-based position transducers or something else you can measure it, have them take a set to failure.

And you look at the rep speed as it goes down because then you've got an individual basis. Because some kids, they're real poppy, really type 2. And it's really, once they get under 0.4, that's when they can't move. You know, that's one that staples them. Other kids, you know, they're slow grinders, and they might be able to get away with something that's more like a 0.2 meters per second. So that way, you know, MASH is dead right in the dead center. It's usually about 0.3.

But then, of course, if you got 30 kids, you're going to have the kid that, by golly, they go as hard as they can and they still run a 5-240, and they're lean because they should be a long-distance runner. And then you got other kids that are just, I mean, MASH, you were one of those guys slightly, you've been around those weightlifters where you're like, oh, man, they got two more reps and they get stapled. You're like, you just move that so fast. Yeah.

It's like they're just type two. They're a bottle rocket. And you don't want to change that either, you know, like I think a lot of coaches mess up a weight lifter by trying to change that to try and get them to like, you know, a great power lifter can go to like point one meter per second on squats. I, you know, tank. He can go, he can grind so long that not even Jim Aware can read his squat, you know, because like as a, like, as a. It's like a, literally he's like a crane. But like Ryan, you know, Ryan, you know, he's going to miss. Once he's getting close to point three, he's about to miss.

Because, and I don't want to change that, you know, so I'm going to keep him right there. Because I want high threshold motor units. And I want to maintain that type two fiber relationship to the type of ones. Take is a lot of type one. And that's good. That's why you can squat 800 pounds as a kid. And you know, it doesn't you know why. Yeah, incredible.

Right on. Let's move into like the peak year. It's kind of about that 20 to like 30, 35-ish when you're just like at your, the strongest you're ever going to be, the most resilient you're ever going to be, highest testosterone, your maximum competitive years. Again, Travis, going back to you, you got a lot of high level weight lifters. He's mentioned tank. You mentioned Ryan.

How do you approach deadlifting? I know those guys are more on the weightlifting side of things, but like, how do you approach deadlifting with your highest level athletes? Oh, we still do it. Like, you know, even my weight lifters. And this is where a lot of weightlifting coaches disagree. But I feel like it's more and more starting to do pulls. But like I want excess strength on both the pulling and squatting.

And like, so Ryan is just finishing up, you know, a big block of like where we had some time, you know, which is rare in weight lifting. And we really pushed his squat numbers and his deadlift numbers. And so, but now, you know, what that gives me now. is we can snatch and clean and jerk a lot, yet it's a small percentage of his maximum mobility. And so like, but yet, if I'm someone, let me give an example, if I'm somebody who can clean drink 400 pounds, but my front squat is 420, or I'm someone who can clean drink 400 pounds, but my front squat is 500 pounds. The guy who can do 500 pounds can do a lot more volume and therefore has probably a better chance of moving from 400 to 420.

than the guy who is barely got 20 pounds over what he can clean drug if that makes sense. And so that's why we do it. And so same thing in the polls. You know, when he's when he's pulling 400 pounds, it's nothing because he can, that dude could probably deadlift if I really want to let him lose 700 pounds already. But I'm not going to. So that's why I do that. You know, their their percentage to their absolute strength is a lot, you know, is a lot less than the other people.

I don't want them to be like that. I've never really understood that. And that is the one thing Louis Simmons said, who I think he made the most sense when it comes to being strong for weight listers. So, yeah. Go ahead, Mike. No, so, I mean, I'm in agreement with MASH where you want to have a certain amount of functional reserve. You know, obviously, if you can front squat more than you can clean,

which is pretty much every human on the planet, you've got some ability to then recover and then jerk that weight overhead. Now, of course, at the same point, I like the idea of the disparity between those two lists to be as small as possible. So, you know, it's like anything else. If you've got somebody whose their clean number is their front squad 15 RM, they're either a slow twitch individual or they just really suck at cleaning. And we're talking about, again, kind of some more effect your functional point. We've got to get better at that movement. But at the same point, if you've got somebody that has that, there's still a disparity. It's like, well, we know maybe the issue is their clean pulse.

sucks. Maybe it's the how getting the bar up and then maybe it's their ability to get under the bar. There's something there where they have that leakage in the system. Because I know they use the anecdote of like your 3RM on your front squat should be your clean number. And I think that's a good kind of rule of thumb to work with. And that kind of be the thing to help you think about. And then of course you get those true, you know, amazing athletes that literally they can front squat what they can clean. But then that means the only way you're going to get that clean higher is you can create that front squat. And that is a way harder thing to do.

But the thing that a lot of people have missed in the past is like, is like, you know, relating it to arbitrary pulls or squats, it's really about force application. He's like, where is that athlete producing the most force? See, like, you know, if you're producing a ton of force off the ground and yet in that power position, you're lower than everyone else, but yet your total force is higher. You're still not going to get to what, like the guy who looks like they're deadlifting and all of a sudden they move quickly at the top, that guy's still going to beat you.

So it's about, you know, I think it was Dr. Sukamel, talked about force application and where that force is being applied is becoming more and more important, which is what we've, gosh, I always blank out. We had a chance to take our athletes to the school. And I always blank out. But they've been able to give us the feedback

of where are we producing the most force? And at what rate are we producing that force? And so we want it, obviously, to be in that power position. And you want the rate to really, in a perfect world, you want as little deceleration as possible. And then you want the maximum amount of force from mid-thion. Yeah. So to kind of go back to the original purpose, but what we're talking about with the deadlifting, the way that you pull for Olympic lifts is very different than the way you max.

maximum leadlift. Because maximal deadlift, your A and B is not as far. And there's not essentially the velocity that you needed on top of it so that bar is going to obviously go high enough unless you've got crazy great leverages. So when you're working with someone that just wants to get good at deadlifting, you're looking at they have the appropriate strength throughout the entire range. When I'm working with the Olympic lifter, I would rather than barely be able to break the bar off the ground as long as they can accelerate that bar in the last point. Make out. No inches. Bingo right before lockout.

But you've been to power lifting meets like I am, that some guys have a great start, but they can barely lock that weight out. And so therein lies, now we're talking about differences in upper back strength, glute strength. You know, there's a lot of muscles that are working in symphony,

but at certain points in the range of motion, certain muscles are being highlighted more. So if I'm trying to think west side barbell, I want to get somebody to be a better deadlifter. While I'm asking myself, you know, just real simple, back strength,

hip strength, ham strength, and quad strength. Which of those four is the thing that I think is leaving them back. So if they're weak off the floor, now we're talking deadlifts, now we're talking quads, now we're talking hamstrings if they can't lock it out. Well, maybe it's because they're starting in a rounded position. So it makes it easier start. But it's more spinal erectors, upper back for making it a bit more nebulous. Or is it straight up like their glutes suck and they can't finish it through,

which is more of a problem than sumo. Because I've seen a bunch of guys that can start that weight, but they just can't get their hips through at the very top. because they just don't have that little bit of glute max and gluten mead to pull themselves through at the top. So it's, you know, if you're trying to use the deadlift as a hypertrophy exercise, you're probably going to get more if you're just doing things like RDLs and refining what's best for them more than pedically. And like back to my orangutin status, I do pretty much all of my poles unless I'm prepping for a meat from at least a two inch deficit or more. and the reasoning for it is I get a perjury. Sure.

When I use a bigger range of motion. But obviously I can't load as heavy, which I do like because it doesn't put as much load through my connective tissues. So, but mind you, when I'm peeking for a meat, oh, yeah, they were pulling from the floor, and it feels like cheating. It feels like doing like two-board bench pressing when I go back to the ground. And part of it is neurological advantage. And so hence, you know, as you get to be older, then you got to start making choices

of like what style of deadlifting is taking more than it gives? right and you know there's certain folks that they have got you know you can look a very simple um versions on the internet where people are walking through hey if you've got long arms congratulations you can deadlift any style you won but if you got long torso and a short legs and short arms you should probably figure out of sumo that's probably going to feel a lot better than trying to go because you're going to feel like you're stiff like deadlifting everything from the ground you're going to keep running into it so you know yeah sorry go ahead do for me like it was always almost embarrassing especially in a meat where if i if i can't do it

it's because i can't get it off the ground and so i would walk out and pull on the bar and it doesn't go anywhere at all and it just looks like there's no fucking hope for me like like i just selected a weight that was 200 pounds too much so it's just like stapled or glued to the floor whereas five pounds five pounds less i just pick it right up and it'd be like once it's off the ground it's like Like, easy. Like, I could have a rack pole above the knee rack pool, like 200 pounds more than I could get off the ground. So whenever I increase quad strength, like front squats, make my deadlift go up more than deadlifting does. For me, for me, quad strength was like the key to deadlifting.

Like, Ruf, I always split squats and front squats always made my deadlift go up. I can get almost anything off the ground. I'm pretty sure I could get a thousand pounds to my knee. It's a, and then I'm always like, oh, that was so close. But deep down, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was. know we're close. I just can get anything moved me. I just couldn't finish everything.

And, you know, that's where I agree with Doug. I'm the same type of build where if I get at those first two inches, it's coming with me. It might be slow. It's coming. And that's where, and I think the other thing with the gem of the front squat is also, it's developing your spinal erectors as well because you have to hit more work through there because we're naturally so hip dominant that go figure that's me your missing piece of your puzzle.

So, yeah, just like, oh, gosh. And I can't remember who Louis was quoting, but he's like, yeah, pretty much whatever I do, it makes my deadlift go up. Like, there's just certain people that have got those body types that, like, if they get stronger at the squat, they'll deadlift more. But then, you know, that's not always true for everybody. I'll tell you that it was Jim Winler who told me this, that for a lot of people, I'm one of them. It's like the deadlift is like, it's pretending that you're at a rock quarry and like there's rocks everywhere. and under one of those rocks, there's a million dollars. And so you keep turning over rocks until you find the million bucks.

And that was me. It's like my deadlift would stay the same. And then I would discover something new. And then boom, I'm at 750. Then I look, turn over a bunch more rocks. So I'm at 750 for another year or two. Then boom, we're 800. It was just, it was like that.

It was like, you know, there was, there was specific times I can look at and say why. And I know exactly why my deadlift went up. Like, for example, like doing RDLs from a deficit. with lots of vans really helps, obviously, because it overloaded the lockout, which I was terrible at it. And I did that once, and it pushed my deadlift into the hundreds,

and I never did it again. I'm like, why did you never do it again? I just wish I had a coach back then to say it. Probably makes sense to keep doing that, but. Because it sucks. Why would you do it? It does suck, because it's not cool, because you're doing like, you know,

you're doing four to five sets of five or six reps. And it's like, you know, so you're not doing all that big weight. like showing off to your friends, but like it was a big payoff. I did have kept it. That's why I'm doing it now. To jump there as well. I think that's the big thing that a lot of young folks don't get when they transition

when they get to be older. They test strength every week in the gym. They rarely focus on building it. When you first start training, if I just do one heavy set, that's what you think of the old school starting strength. You know, one heavy set of five on the deadlift, but you're already doing the, you know, the three by five on the squat. that's going to help you be a better deadlifter.

But once you get to a certain point, it's like, no, dude, you got to go in there and you got to do three sets of five. You got to do a bunch of doubles, a bunch of triples, like whatever, to build the technique, to build the muscularity to do that movement. And so, yeah, for me, it was the back to Louis and the strength coach Rick Perry, who I worked with. It was the glute ham race and the reverse hyper. When I have better of both of those, aside from obviously different variations on debiless and otherwise, like, that's when I started first pulling six, is I could do glued ham raises, hold it on to, you know, plate at my chest, and I could go and do, you know, reverse hypers with, you know,

180 on there or otherwise. Like, it's like, yeah, bulletproofing that low back and that hamstrings, that's what I was missing. I would say at my age, the reverse hyper has been magic lately. It's like the one thing that has really, like, got my low back strong enough to where I felt confident to exert lots of force early on. You know, like, because right now I'm more like you guys, like, it's like, is it going to move? Because I'm afraid to exert maximum force because I feel, you know, I feel unstable, you know, in the lumbar spine.

So that's no fun. And I don't think my body allows me, you know, when you're not stable in the lumbar, your body, I'm sure. Nately. It's not regulates you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Anytime you've got some type of thing, you know, that just becomes the rate limiters, the injury. And that's the thing as you move forward is how can I still get a really good stimulus.

but now I don't have to use 500 pounds. Now I don't have to use, you know, whatever that big number is for you. So I'd rather do a bunch of work sets with a snatch grip RDR at like 300, you know, something pounds than be doing traditional, you know, RDLs from the ground. So I'm hamstring flexible enough I can hit the ground every single time with probably be 400 something. Like I'd rather put that muscle through that really long length position.

That's going to always transition over to shorter ranges of motion. and know that my tissues can go through a big range of motion. So, you know, whenever we get to, you know, the daddy daughter softball game, I'm not the dad running your first base and I get shot by the sniper. Because my hamstring rolls up like window blinds. And that's where I really like the knees over toes guy. I'm like, go out there, do bodyweight hands, you know, get good at that, get good glute ham raises.

I mean, think about how dumb you'd have to be to hurt yourself, aside from falling out of it with a glute ham raise. Like, you know, that, the idiot factor is really friendly, but it's going to build a hell out of your posterior. chain you know but yeah with a good morning you don't set those safeties up it's going to be a good night yeah it can be very you know that was another one the good morning though did really push my deadlift way up it was like step one you know it was it pushed my delift well into the sevens it was a bit and it really helped my squat too both of those movements you know when i really had a

strong good morning like it made me feel invincible but then i kept pushing too much you know that's someone you can, that is like optimal amount is going to push a long ways, anything above that can really end up on the negative side of things. Yeah. Yeah. So in your peak years, the stating the obvious here, you can have the most volume, most intensity, not necessarily at the same time, but definitely more than you came on your younger and more than you can when your older, middle age and beyond here, you can spend way more time above 90%, 95%, and actually, that's the time to actually hit true one-ret maxes and hit PR. and just, you know, get your lifetime peak numbers.

As we're coming off of those peak years, kind of middle age and then eventually older age, I feel like this is kind of a, you know, a bell-shaped curve here where it just kind of like unwinds itself the same way that it was built. Like you go back to velocity-based training, you go back to focusing on technique, you go back to shorter range of motion, you go back to being a little more conservative as you get into your 40s and 50s and beyond. You want to keep those movement patterns. You want to keep healthy.

You want to maintain your muscle mass, but you're not competing anymore. You don't need to do true one-wreck maxes anymore, at least definitely not as frequently as you would in your 20s when you're competing or trying to be your absolute strongest. But closing out the show here, Travis, you're in your 50s now. I'm in my 40s. Mike, how are you? I'm in my 40s as well. Yeah. 40s, yeah, we're all middle-age-ish over here.

How has deadlifting changed for you guys in the last decade? Definitely for me is like, like as I'm competing again, I mean, I think I'm much about. more Ed Conish now. Like, there's going to be six months where I'm like, right now I'm in the air where I'm not, I'm not going heavy at all. And so like, and I'm using hands because, you know, when you're at that in range of motion where you're, you know, where the hip and the knees are at the greatest range of motion, it's less, you know, it's less of a load.

It's been the big one right now. And I'm doing more reps. I'm trying to build like capacity and I'm not getting anywhere near. Like I'm not coming anywhere near 0.3 on the meters per cent. second on any kind of pull. It's definitely not on squats. It's more point four, point five, and above. So that's really one of that.

I'm just trying to build capacity. Really honestly, the truth is, I'm trying to look really good right now. I want my young wife to be happy when we're naked, you know. Yeah, priorities, man. Beauty is only a light switch away, mash. And at the same time, the two things that I want to throw out there is, one, peak strength, depending on, we will say, exogenous supplementation that people have used, can not happen until your 40s.

And if you never really manifest your genetic potential, you might hit your PR lifetime deadlift in your 50s or 60s. A guy like, you know, MASH, I'm not saying you're not going to hit eight again. I'm simply saying, I'm not going to hit eight again. Okay. You know, so like just keep that in mind, you listeners at home. Yeah. There's still, you know, the ceiling does come down when you get to be older,

but a few people ever get close to the ceiling. Right. Now, the second part. I saw the ceiling for sure. Yeah, exactly. Is the stimulus to fatigue ratio, you find the version of the deadlift that gives you the best stimulus. Like, F, my low back is sore, like my hamstrings are sore, my glutes are sore. But it's not like my actual spine feels crunchy.

You know, like my joints are bothering me. And that's where, you know, people can get to be very, like, I sumo deadlift or I conventional. Whichever one gives you that good soreness, you can do with good technique that's repeatable. That's the deadlift you keep going for as long. long as possible. Right. Because, you know, death wins eventually, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go down without a fight.

And so as long as you're still doing the pattern that doesn't beat you up too much in deleterious ways, you've got something that's sustainable for life. And the key thing is you got to figure out what's for you. And I think really once I get to be older, I'm still, I'm pulling sumo from the deficit because I suck at sumo. So I can't pull as much there so it naturally rate limits me. And then, but once I ever time. Exactly.

Once I get closer, like, viewers at home, I understand it's half a deadlift and I'm not a real man because I'm not pulling conventional. But when I ever choose to compete again, like it's conventional from the floor. That's where I'm at. So, you know, you have to figure out what works for you. And for some folks, because you got that body type, maybe it is trap bar with the high handles. Because it still gives you a good hinge, still keeps everything strong and allows you to use a very heavy load because that's great for bone mineral density. So, you know, it's just, it's pick your, pick what's a problem. appropriate for you. Don't get dogmatic. Be pragmatic.

Man, I got to go. I got some athletes waiting. Yeah. 100%. Let's shut it down. Travis Mass. Where can people find you? Matchedly.com. Thanks, everybody. Or come see me at Risendoor Sports, too, if you're local. 100%. Mike Lane. Yeah, Mike Lane, PhD on Instagram.

Then maybe I'll at some point, I'll actually start putting more out there. I probably should. You need to get you a website. Anyway. There you go. I'm Doug Larson. I'm on Instagram. Douglas E. Larson. We are Barbell Strug. barbell underscore shrugged on

Instagram. If you want to work with Dr. Mike Lane and Travis Match and Andy Goppin, the whole team at Rapid Health Optimization, you can go to R-Hat-A-L-A-B-com.com. Friends, we'll see you guys next week.