Barbell Shrugged - Deloads: Overrated, Underutilized, or Feel It Out w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #530

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

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Shrugged Family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, we are talking about deloads, in which I am the middle of a massive, seven-day-long deload right now, hanging out at my in-laws, and I don't have a gym in the entire state of Maryland that I can go to. They're all closed right now. I've got a new person in charge, and he just shut down all the fun. He said, no more strong people allowed to go to gyms and make things happen, so that's me. I'm on the road, running, doing push-ups, doing some sit-ups, doing air squats in the middle of living rooms. That's exciting. That's as exciting as it gets. That's

as deload as it gets. Check it out, friends. Today, we're talking about deloads and when you need them, why you need them, or do you even really need them? That's an interesting question that we dig into as well. I want to let everybody know this week you can head over to shruggedcollective.com forward slash vault. That's shruggedcollective.com forward slash vault. You can save $200 on the very last sale of the year. The program vault is on sale right now. Use the code vault200. That's V-A-U-L-T 200 to save $200 on 23 training programs.

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now I got the green, I got the red and the gold. I'm getting the full slew of micronutrients and you can too by getting over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged to save 20%. That's Organifi.com forward slash shrugged to save 20% on all of the juices. Friends, I also want to talk to you about our friends over at Fit Together. Right now is mobility month. Mobility month in December, they hired a super badass yoga teacher who's in there teaching you to get stretchy joint health everything that you need to know there's a pose of the day you get on there you take a picture of yourself doing that pose you're entered to win in mobility month and

that's super cool they just passed 20 000 users 20 000 users is an insane number of people for a brand new startup app. And I'm super stoked for everybody over at Fit Together. They're really, really cool people. I enjoy hanging out with people on Fit Together. It's just an awesome platform for people that are trying to get healthy and don't want to deal with all the pandemics and politics and whatever else is going on in the world that shows up all over social media. This is fitness only. So get over to your app store. It's available on all your devices, no matter what operating system you have. Android, check. iPhone, check. I don't even know if there's anything else that matters, but it's in the app store. F-I-T-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R, fit together. Friends, let's talk about some deloads. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mast. Today on Barbell

Shrugged, we're talking about deload weeks, which is super important because if you're like me, you've been trapped in your house for the last four months. You might not have a home gym. You might have been doing some bodyweight workouts, but I'm going to let you know that it's okay if your training has been a little bit slower. We don't typically want to be doing deloads over four months. This quarantine thing is a little different, but we're going to be talking about deloads and why you need them, what you should be working on when you have them, signs of, we're not going to use the word overtraining, but we're going to talk about you being very tired and maybe needing a little bit of a break what you should be doing during your deloads and how you can come back to training

make sure you are continuing all the gains getting stronger um dougarson, when you think of how often are you taking some deloads? And it's kind of like the highest level. How would you describe to people that taking deloads, because most people don't want to take time off, they just want to train as hard as they possibly can. So how do we how do we we, uh, bring some, bring some intelligent conversation and some higher level thinking about why our body needs a rest periodically to continue getting stronger? Well, first off, I don't, I don't think we should think about it as taking time off. If you're, if you're taking time off, then you're, you're deloading too much. You're just on vacation. That's not what we're talking about here. Yeah. You're, you're just lowering your training volume a little bit. You're not, you're not stopping're on vacation that's not what we're talking about here yeah you're just lowering

your training volume a little bit you're not you're not stopping training at all like you can be on a deload we can still train five days a week and still and still be in the gym for a significant period of time you're just switching up what you're doing while you're there and as a result the your longevity for training for training for years or decades is um i think it's going to be improved like you're you're gonna have less joint pain you're gonna have less just um you know internal um demotivation because you're just not so fucking tired all the time like if you just smash yourself every week and you never fluctuate your volume and you never periodize anything and you never take deload weeks then i think you'll get burnt out quicker than if you didn't, than if you did do that. So if you're, if you're super motivated and you've been training

hard for years and years, you know, great. That's, that's, that's a good thing that you have that, that level of motivation and that, that level of drive and determination. Those, those are all very high quality character traits, et cetera. Um, but even for you, you know, the super dedicated, um, I think you will train longer if you're looking at the life cycle of a person who's, um, you know, learns to lift weights in their teens and they want to be fit and well into their, you know, their senior years, you know, their, their 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, et cetera. If you're, if you're looking at it on the order of decades, uh, I think that if you just smash yourself every week, eventually you're going to burn out. A lot of people burn out and then they just, they just go, ah, I'm out.

And they just leave. They leave the world of fitness and weightlifting because it's just been too much. But I think if you, if you have some deload weeks along the way and you're strategically cycling your volume where you have, you have weeks that are way too high where and you're strategically cycling your volume where you have you have weeks that are way too high where like you're intentionally overreaching and then you have deload deload weeks afterward you know that that can spur a lot of um a lot of progress that you wouldn't have gotten otherwise yeah mash i actually wrote uh all these notes because i just saw morgan and basically your whole team. I think Crystal was even talking about,

uh, about two weeks ago, uh, that your whole team was on a, a deload week. And I was like, we need to talk about that. Um,

cause there is some, there it's, it's, it's really like a great opportunity for people to get healthy, uh, and work on a lot of the skills just with you when you're putting stuff together for your team how often are you are you putting the deloads what's what's a little bit of the the mindset that you have as a coach going in and programming that stuff well the way we do it

now normally it's very it can be very individual too and it should be individual and to a point but like you know on average where we do like it's like one week one is like let's say that you were looking at philippus chart which is a chart that prescribes intensities and and volumes and so uh you know you would week one average. Week two would be we're pushing the spectrum. We're actually trying to overreach on week two. Week three, we deload on week three because, you know, week four is when we go higher intensities. So you overreach.

It kind of rolls that way every block to a degree. But then you got to ask yourself, when you deload, you know, how do you deload? Like you can do volume you can do intensity a little bit of each some people if you deload you know intensity they can really mess them up you know some people you know like uh if you do the volume too much it can mess them up so you just got to uh figure out what which works you just need all you got to do is just back it enough to where the you know the body can keep up it can go back to some degree of like homeostasis then yeah do you notice uh even with

you know kind of training elite level athletes that they are uh as uh doug used the word so perfectly like demotivated after week two where they're overreaching. Do you find that they need that or are they just 17 to 20 years old and always ready to go smash barbells? I think if they're like – if you're deloading and they're really not wanting to, then probably you're not overreaching quite enough. And maybe you're wasting time. Yeah. So that's the key key you want them to want a deload is the key and so but not too bad i mean obviously you don't want to crush them to the point they can't recover but yeah you want to overreach to a degree and they they should be anticipating that deload you know like a they should be looking at like a oasis in the middle of the desert.

Yeah. Yeah. Coming from like the CrossFit world, I feel like this is the one piece that people miss so much. And it leads to so much just that sluggish feeling where you just can't seem to get that extra push and conditioning. Or you get under the bar and it feels so heavy. You have people that sit there and they're chasing that high instead of thinking about training their body. And that high is so awesome when you're in the middle of some Metcon that you've done five days in a row for five weeks straight.

Yeah. And you keep chasing the high versus training. And when you're chasing the high, it's like you just have to run into the wall as hard as you can every single time where you feel like you're not doing anything. And when you're training, there actually has to be like a stimulus, some sort of response, giving your body enough time to repair, recover. And that was probably one of the biggest lessons I learned in the gym when I would see the general population come in is we would have to find ways to trick them into doing them. Not maybe trick, but we'd have to program ways for them not to be able to move fast because you would have these people that came in and it was like, you

could just see the motivation. You could see the intensity, everything after two, three weeks, which is kind of like slow down and people would not be able to hit times or they would miss weights. Um, and you just, you would as a whole realize like, okay, it's time. And, and over time you start to see kind of that cyclical, every three to four weeks, people just needing a little bit of downtime. And when you're when you're writing workouts and programming for that many people, it's actually a really creative time because there's so many movements and so many ways I think that what I want to talk about next is like, when you talk about all the different variables that you can use, so it can, you can, you can tailor volume down, you can bring intensity down, you can bring

frequency down, um, exercise selection. You know, there's a lot of things. Those are the big ones that we used to use a lot because it's, it's really hard when somebody walks into the gym to be like, Hey, today we're going to do less volume. Yeah. They're like, huh? No way. I want more volume. I just got out of my desk i was sitting on my butt all day and you're gonna tell me i now i'm gonna do less like nobody wants to hear that but exercise selection is a really good one you start throwing a bunch of like movements that you just can't do fast yeah they're really tricky and you have to think about them and uh that that becomes like the,

the real creative fun part to make training really fun, but sneaking, sneaking that stuff in. Movement is low eccentric, you know, like there's not a lot of eccentric contraction going on. Just something they can recover from. So like carries,

you know, let's do some carries today. Everybody likes to carry, but like it's, it's easy to recover. Yeah. Yeah yeah i like adding pauses as well you know if you if you take someone that normally does heavy snatches on mondays but then this time they're doing heavy snatches but they're doing a three second pause mid shin and

they're a three second pause above the knee and then they're pulling snatches naturally they're going to lift probably just a little bit lighter because it's a more difficult movement and so they're they're still using 100% effort. I feel like this is key for a deload week. Whatever you program for them, they still should be allowed to use 100% effort. The way that you structure the workouts is such that even with 100% effort, their training volume and intensity has been reduced somehow, some way. So adding pauses, like doing a front squat, a 1RM front squat

versus a 1RM front squat with a 7- front squat with a seven second pause at the bottom. They're just different. One is a little bit lighter than the other. They're still stressful. You can still get a great response out of doing, you know, pause work, but you're not going to use the same amount of weight because you're wondering at max with a, with a pause is not the same as you're wondering at max without a pause with a pause. Dude, yesterday, Mash, you posted a video of Jordan Cantrell front squatting from like a dead stop,

which is actually something we used to do all the time during these weeks to like slow people down, was just hang the bar on the clips. On the bottom, yeah, yeah. And be like, okay, now we're not doing eccentric at all, and we're just going to try and see what we can do. And you can even max that out. But then I watched Jordan do it, and I'm like, that's not a deload. That's a giant front squat that he did not. What was the weight on that?

I think it was like 200 kilos, like 440. So, yeah, he's got a lot stronger. That boy is thick now. He is really primed for something big. You know, I'm trying to like, you know, I'm trying to keep it on the dollar slide. I just said it to everyone. But, yeah, he's primed for something really big. And so hopefully when we get out of this stupid quarantine thing or whatever, Brent,

he's going to do something amazing. I can see him hitting 170, 200, 89. It would be. So that used to be like one one of the you know what i i use i'm always trying to search for ways to make training more fun especially when i'm in a group of people like that was that's real like if you were to do if you were to just like write strength training out on paper it kind of looks so. So you got to kind of make it a little bit more fun. And that was, that was a lot of the stuff that I used to try to do in the gym and like

having like a heavy double where you have to take it off the pens from the bottom of front squat. It's like the most fun thing that you can do in a gym setting. Cause nobody's ever really done it. Nobody has any idea what they're going to hit for the day. And you still are able to get basically all of the like lower volume, different exercise selection. So you're getting this new training response.

The weight can't be that heavy because one, it's the first time they've done it to, you know, you're taking it from a terrible position. Most people don't even know how to set the bar up. And, and then I saw Jordan do it, and I was like, yep, he's going to need a break after that tomorrow. That's not how I used to use that exercise at all. Yeah.

With him, you've got to be creative because he's got some back issues where a back squat really messes him up. So we have to really work hard to make sure we keep progressing his leg strength. But, I mean, we've been able to do it. So we just get all the very, every front squat variation you can think of. We use.

Yeah. You don't need to worry about his legs, his shoulders. He doesn't miss. It's the overhead is like the best in America. Yeah. He's at 200 kilo. He almost got 205.

Did you guys see that? He literally stood up and then went behind so it's like you know it's a training mate it's crazy yeah 450 over his squad i think in my mind the the easiest way to fluctuate volume is just to alter the number of sets like if if one week you're doing three sets and the next week you're doing five and then you're doing four and then you're doing six and then you're back to three and five and four and six like you kind of have like this this like low high medium very high structure where like it's a four week cycle and it's alternating every week up down up down up down um that that seems to me that'd be one of the easiest ways to do it because you don't have to change intensities you have to change rep ranges you have to worry about what weight to use you just instead of doing five sets you're doing three sets and so you're doing 60

percent of the volume it's less volume but you're doing the same workouts i think that's the easiest way to do it there's many ways you could do it but that's that's very very simple in my mind is it yeah a bunch of simple ways if you do rep maxes like sometimes we'll do like a rep max we do like a 3rm or 1rm at a certain rp then you have your down sets you can just eliminate down sets or you can like totally skip the rm and just do down sets of last week's you know rm you know it's just you just gotta the key is knowing your people it's like some people like i said if you don't have intensity high enough they will have it'll be a drastic decrease in performance but same thing uh and that happens tends will be a drastic decrease in performance.

But same thing, it tends to be a lot of males. And then females, if you drop the volume too much, there will be a drastic drop in performance. You've got to know your people. Yeah, when you're reducing the total sets or the volume what is like how much how much do you like reduce that before becomes kind of like a negative week and that people don't aren't able to stay you know tuned up and and able to get back to training the following week have you have you noticed any different where you just over overdone the the you know yeah the amount of volume that

people aren't doing now yes especially like in the ultimate deload which is the taber week yeah that's a yeah you can definitely overshoot that and then uh we have found for the most part for the like let's say the taber week which is the ultimate yeah deload week is um the way we we keep the intensity fairly high because they're about to feel you know about to max out so really all we decrease is like the volume i mean yeah it's the total volume and like you know we eliminate most the assistance work yeah but keep the big lifts kind of the same yeah but so like what we do is like we work up to um i'll tell you exactly for on average monday let's say this is weightlifting we're talking about monday um the snatches they work

up to their opener and possibly the second attempt let's say there could be on saturday um and the the cleanser is just opener then uh they might do a squat, but that's lower. But now we started looking at velocity. So we're trying to – we're going to cut it down to 88% for maybe three doubles, but we're going to look at how fast they're going to do it. So then Tuesdays normally powers, power stats, power clean, and power jerk, maybe some carries. So we don't go completely no assistance.

We just don't do any assistance that would create a lot of muscle damage. So we still – and we've done, like, lateral raises. We've done, you know, a lot of, like, bodybuilding stuff that's low. And, you know, they don't have that stretching component. Like, we don't do RDLs, obviously, because you're going to get sore and create damage. But then Wednesday, we're going to normally work up to your last warm-up in the snatch, last warm-up, clean and jerk. And then in the even lower squat, 80%.

Thursday would be 70% to 75% of stats clean the jerk friday off saturday we compete that's that that's pretty much exactly what we do you know give or take individual approaches when you talk about velocity for for this are you trying to get people moving faster or slower faster Faster, faster. Yeah, so it's still moving as fast as possible, especially going into like a taper week where you don't want to practice going slow. Yeah, we're trying to excite the nervous system. Yeah, we're trying to be firing at peak contractions. Another friend sent me the study.

I think it was the same one you were talking about, Al. They tested this in monkeys about the nervous system firing and then strength coming many weeks later. I think it was with you that I was talking. I haven't heard this yet, but you brought up, brought up on a show. Um, now it's true. Yeah. I didn't, I, maybe it was from the book spark that you were reading and you, you brought it into me, but it's true. Yeah. I didn't, I, maybe it was from the book spark that you were reading and you, you brought it into me, but that's what I think about when, when you, you mentioned that you have to keep the speed as high as possible to excite the nervous system because the muscles follow the nervous system in the study. It was basically, if they tested on monkeys, which

I'm sorry, every time I see a picture of a study and a monkey is the one that they train, I feel always awful for the monkey. Like why didn't they just, why didn't they, they should have just called me for the study. Leave the monkey alone. The monkey doesn't know. I know that they're trying to test my nervous system to see when the muscles start to grow, but the monkey doesn't know. And they got it in like a check uh like a like a neck holder and it's like pulling this thing i don't even know if it was the real study but it just man the picture that they drew just killed me i was like if you need a monkey just call me i'll go i'll go there um but yeah but they were saying so they they had the monkey start lifting weights

and what they noticed was that the brain has to fire, obviously, through the spinal cord to get the body, get the muscles all turned on. But it takes, you know, like multiple weeks. I wish I could remember the exact number right now. It takes, but before you start lifting weights, you have to excite the nervous system to get the brain to tell the body that it needs to grow. And all of the muscle mass that you build happens significantly later than you would assume it does when you start lifting weights. Like everybody is on, you take a 30-day program or something like that, and they think like, oh, I'm going to get jacked now. It's like, well, it probably takes that long just for your brain

to be able to signal to your body that it's time to move. Yeah, 30 days is not going to cut hypertrophy. But it is also like the neural adaptations is what people, you know, often overlook is like, you know, is the rate of recruitment and then, you know, motor unit recruitment in general. So, like, you want to fire fast because the goal the goal is like to recruit those fibers quickly in weightlifting. Powerlifting, you know, you want to still want to be as quick as you can, but it's not as imperative. Weightlifting is absolutely imperative that, you know, that the rate of recruitment is super fast.

And, you know, and that you're recruiting as many motor units as possible, of course. So you definitely want to keep those things up there. So come Saturday, you're recruiting as many fibers as fast as possible. Yeah. I feel like with the velocity stuff, if you can just move as fast as possible during weeks where the volume isn't so high you still pretty much i mean maybe not you're still getting the maximum amount of probably the most important thing which

is good movement and moving fast yeah if you can keep your brain in the game and and be working on speed and connection to the barbell. Cause I think that that's like where a lot of coaches go wrong in, in thinking about deloads because, and I've done this plenty of times where you just, Hey, we're taking a really slow week. And then you're pro you look at the program and it's got nothing but 50,

60% written on there. And it just isn't enough. Instead of taking like one variable, you just lower all the variables and then you get back to the gym then the following week. And it's like training week, your body feels slow, your body feels sluggish. You're just kind of like not physically, everything just isn't firing the way that it should. You don't feel athletic, which is by far the worst feeling in the world. But to be able to put decent weight on the bar and bring your nervous system into it and be athletic, that – there's no better – I can always mentally check in, I feel, to get myself feeling stronger.

But you can't overpower the, like the, the athleticism, your body's either wired up and it feels connected or it isn't always. I feel like you can mentally, and you can get aggressive enough and take enough pre-workout that you're just fired up to go lift weights. But if you're not moving well, especially for me, when it gets into like anything overhead, if my body isn't pushing onto the bar, I know it, whether there's 135 pounds on the bar or the most I've ever done. If you put 300 pounds plus on the bar, like if, if I'm not pushing onto the bar, I can feel it as soon as I jump on the very first one. And that's typically because I just haven't been practicing being athletic. I took too much time off. The weight didn't feel right. I wasn't practicing being fast. And then you go back and you think that

everything's going to be better because you took such a slow week. You rested, you did everything you were supposed to, but you forgot to be athletic for a whole week. And now you've got a couple extra days of just re-greasing the groove and getting back to having to be athletic again. Do you guys happen to see – this is kind of cool, and I'll make a point too. But my girl from Denmark, she's a 49 kilo. She went down from 55 to 49. I feel like I'm a part of team denmark yeah strong piglet yeah i don't ever want to know her real name she hit 80 kilos on the snatch going down a weight class and so shout out to andy too for helping us by the way so he uh

helped us with the cut told you i'm. I'm actually a much bigger fan. Not that I'm not. You have like two completely different sized humans in Denmark that you coach. And Sandra. She's giant. Yeah. That's a strong, fast human being. Is she like 5'11", 6'0"? 6'0".

In America, she's definitely not weightlifting. She's going to be volleyball or basketball or something. She is so athletic. She's still got four years. You could bring her to Lenore Rhine. Yeah, I would love that. No, I think she's aged out. You know, they're both police officers in Denmark.

Can you believe that? So. Yeah. Can you imagine Sandra pulling you over? I'd be like, I don't know i was like sandra i was like you weigh 49 kilograms you know like but this you'd be like but i would love uh like an in-car cam with them going out on patrol together and all they're talking about is weightlifting i swear i'd be like a cop car that I would love to get put in. Yeah.

Yeah, boy. Arrest me. Yeah, totally. I'm getting arrested, and all I got to do is talk about weightlifting from the backseat? Yeah. My boy. Keep the handcuffs off. It was Sanders.

We've, you know, with both of them, we've done a very good job this time. You know, because, you know, we had this quarantine this quarantine thing and delayed the Olympics. They both have very good shots of making the Olympics for Denmark. Anyways, we've used this time to experiment with deloads, with volume,

with extra selection. I feel like we've used it wisely. We have made significant gains. Normally when you go down, think about this. If you're normally a 55 kilo and you're dropping to, you know, 49, like what's the odds of you hitting a lifetime, you know, PR and a snatch. So we've done a good job.

Deloading being one of it, like, you know, getting that volume just right. We've communicated better. So I'm just bragging right now. I'm just proud of her. She killed it. I mean, even Louise, she doubled 97, and her all-time best is 100. So we're looking for a monster snatch from her, too.

101, she's done 101. When you're already that small, and then you drop a weight class, that's not easy. No, and then you PR. How long does it take to get her down? It wasn't too bad. We had her ready. When was it?

It was in Rome, I think, is when she competed at 49 for the first time. And it took 12 weeks. So it was pretty dramatic. We looked at the world rankings. And so for her to make the Olympics, that was the best shot. So it was a risk, and now, thanks to COVID, it's going to pay off because we got extended a little bit as far as the qualifications. So it might have worked out to our advantage. We're going to take a quick break.

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their circumstances like you know lately in the senior you know the senior age people like you couldn't because you know they had to compete you know every what they had to do two you know two meets every like six months and so like it's been insane man and man. Doug Varsity showed up with a giant breakfast. Most are getting two or three days, but then Jordan Cantrell, we take anywhere from ten to two weeks. That's the most.

He takes the most, but it works for him, so it's very individual. During the last 18 months before, well, it should be the Olympics? What are we in July yet? Almost to be in July. The Olympics are supposed to happen in about a month.

But, like, we haven't been able to take off because it's been meet, got to compete, got to compete, got to compete. So, like, even though I'm glad that it really helped to, like, you know, drop the doping around the world. But, man man it's been really tough on athletes both physically and mentally um yeah i told you guys once i saw in thailand i saw a couple people lose their minds literally like freaked out started crying quit the sport and uh it's been insane so wait what were they what Wait, what were they quitting about?

What was the big stressor? Yeah, just because you've got to compete, got to compete. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the new schedule, that's right. Yeah, so one lady, she's super sweet. I'm not going to say her name, but yeah, she just quit right then and there. She's like, somebody said, are you going to do the American Open or something? And she's like, oh, no, I quit. And she just, like, flipped out because it's been so much stress.

So you do have to watch, like, in bringing it back to delos, you know, you got to consider, like, stress, like, not just, you know, how much are you training, but, like, what's the outside world doing are you training but like what's the outside world doing to you like what is the stress of weight lifting like um you know even though you should be doing all this volume but man if you're stressing out all the time you're gonna have to dial it back because your body is the same as as a training stress yo Yo, when I was, whenever we had athletes or I was talking to them about, especially like coming right out of competition

where you should be taking some time and like really moving slow, you don't need to be peaked out for any reason, especially, you know, the first, if you're lucky and you're able to have like an off season, that's super rad where I used to just go and take classes and hang out with the gym and all the people.

But athletes are really, really good along the spectrum of extreme recovery, maybe like the yin yoga side of life and meditation and extreme slow. They're really good at the opposite end, which is just pushing through pain, training as hard as you possibly can, and just go, go, go. They want to lift all the time, which is great. That's why they're great at lifting weights. But they really struggle, many of them, to find the opposite end of the spectrum. And I found that to be something that almost all higher level athletes

and people that are really pushing hard can do during these times. It's like, go take a yoga class, which is like the exact opposite of what all the meatheads want to do because they want to just keep running through the wall and working as hard as they possibly can. But I found more like happiness in my training when I was actually able to figure out a way to go and practice slowing down and like intentionally going to slow down where your normal life is already pretty stressful and that like we all have to do some sort of work we're all trying to get better we're we're all managing families and life and just the general stressors so instead of that hour where

you get to train and work on your health being going to the gym and working really hard and then you hit a deload and now you're you're still like that that block of time is still focused on training even though it's a little bit less or a little bit lower volume or a little bit different movements but instead taking that that hour or 90 minutes, whatever it is, and going to do like a hot yoga class. Yeah. Or going and doing like a yin yoga class or finding a way to intentionally go and force your body to slow down. It made my life so much better when I knew that I needed some time. And I also just, I didn't know the answer to like, okay, well, how am I supposed to slow down?

I had to go find that. Lucky I was in San Diego where it's like there's three yoga studios on every single block. So I was clearly, it was like staring me in the face all the time. But anytime somebody is actually, you know, some of the best athletes that we used to work with, you would see them just, we've talked about a lot of the physical side and the programming side, but I think what, you know, this goes from gen pop all the way to the highest level of athlete is the pressure that we all put on ourselves to be great at something. I mean, even if your goal is to lose 20 pounds, you're trying to be the greatest version of yourself and lose that weight so you can put on that face for your family, for whoever's important to you, for yourself when you look

in the mirror. And if you are continually carrying that pressure, it's a massive stress in your life. So if you're carrying the stress of that, and now all of a sudden your coach or your trainer or whoever it is is saying like, hey, we're going to take a really slow week. This is going to help your body. It adds more pressure thinking you're slowing down progress towards your goal. And now you have this like additional stressor in your life. And you're in a way beating your body down in a non-physical way, but you're doing it mentally and emotionally and finding a way to practice to relieve that stress to me turns out to be one of the most important parts in that you're still actively going to do something.

You're still training extremely hard because it's really hard, especially when you first start doing that stuff. Yeah, it kills me. Yeah. Yeah. And slowing down is so hard, but you're, it's so challenging that you kind of get your fix. It makes you feel really uncomfortable, but you're also like expanding the spectrum of intensities that you train on and that you're really good at going hard in the paint every single day. But you probably really suck at sitting still for an hour.

Yeah. the stress in your life and relieving the pressure that you put on yourself and all of the extra stuff going on with hitting your goals and getting where you want to go. And there's some real value in just, you know, yes, you want to go to the gym. Yes, you want to keep your athleticism, but find a way to go sit still for half an hour and practice the opposite end of the spectrum and slowing your training down. Totally. I think, I'm sorry, Doug. I think with a lot of people that they're, they're so motivated that they hear deload week and they roll their eyes like, oh, like why am I being subjected to this? Like you're wasting my time, that type of thing. I think if you're, especially if you're training a team or, or a large group of of people you're a crossfit gym owner and crossfit coach etc uh rebranding the deload week as something else i think is valuable you could

call it the functional bodybuilding week and so now it's the functional bodybuilding week and we're doing a lot of assistance work and that's the week you do bicep curls and lateral raises and yeah hamstring curls and whatever else like people think it's cool now they're doing something different than what they were doing last week and the week before um but it's not like uh this is like the week we're like we're all we all just we all just wimp out and and don't lift weights yeah it turns into something else where now maybe it's the maybe it's cardio week or or fat loss week or however you want to brand it for whoever your population is to make it sound like it's something very obviously different so everyone knows it's going to be different but you're branding it in a way where people go oh we're doing this different thing but it sounds really cool

yeah it's a great idea man uh especially younger athletes get you know really upset you know they don't want to deal because they think they're you know that means they're going backwards they just don't get it yet but if you rebrand it, you wouldn't even call it that big. It's a great idea. I did read in that same article that I was talking about before we got on this. I was talking about icing. But the article was talking about how important active recovery is and how it speeds up the recovery process.

Instead of just like, you know, you could do your training and go home and just lay down, or you could do active recovery like you were saying, Anders. There's a definite research that says that will speed up recovery quite a lot more than just like resting. Yeah. Well, there's like the non-negotiables that you have to do every single day just to be a human, like getting out and going walking. If you see Deload written on your program and you just like sit in front of your TV, you're going way too far backwards. Yeah. Not like Doug said at the beginning.

It's not a week off. You still need to be doing the basics. Um, when, if, if we're to kick nutrition into this, because this is going to be, you know, when the majority of people are showing up to the gym, they're trying to lose X amount of body fat, get leaner. And now we're taking all of their high intensity interval training away from them and, and telling them that they have, uh week coming or a week to get healthy, how do we adjust nutrition in that week? I imagine it's obviously goal-dependent, but do you think that that week matters that much,

or is it time for everyone to kind of just let off the gas pedal and the pressure on that and just get healthy for a week? That's a good idea. I don't think you want to be on a calorie deficit probably that week. I think you want to at best eat the appropriate amount of calories for your body weight. You want to recover. You don't want there to be –

so you want all the nutrition there available to to recover you'll probably want to sleep more too i would say that week you know i when i tell people when we do our house called active recovery week instead of deload week um that they more than ever they focus on you know sleep more than ever focus on nutrition even though i should be doing it all the time but use that week to yeah yeah, recenter your focus on those things. More important than anything, people neglect it all the time. It's crazy, but it's the most important. I think it matters a lot whether you're in a weight class sport or not.

Like if you're a CrossFit competitor and you don't have like a body fat issue, say you're a regionals athlete and you're already pretty lean and you're just trying to recover, but you have competition that's many weeks or months out where you're not peaking for something then i think it's totally fine to be definitely be at maintenance is totally fine um but out of being at a caloric surplus i think you know 250 to 500 calories over your you know your normal maintenance calories um for purposes, even on when you're doing less volume, because you're, you're already an advanced athlete in this example, and you don't have a body fat issue to worry about. Um, I think it's just going to help your recovery. On the

other hand, if you're a weight class athlete and, and you don't want to get too far away from your competition way, especially if you have a competition coming up in the very near future, then they need to be a little tighter on it uh yeah you know focusing on food quality and and volume but not calories specifically so you're getting enough micronutrients but your your caloric load is is as low as it needs to be to maintain body weight or even potentially lose a little bit of weight in that week depending on how much time you have to to make weight yeah i think it would nobody really or few people think about nutrition as like a stressor on the body, as like just general stress load that you're carrying.

And being in a deficit is really hard on your body. Like your body doesn't really want to be not eating enough. I actually really notice because the last month of my life, I've been very not in control of, it hasn't been bad. It's actually been way better than the majority of vacations because not vacation trips because we, we were gone for so long that we had to have like a real life when I was at my in-laws.

So we're eating pretty well, but I had more IPAs this month than I probably had in the entire year prior because you get out to the lake and what does everyone, everyone want to do at four o'clock when the sun is like perfect, they go, you want to, you want to make up some guacamole and, uh, do you want to have, you want to have a drink? You're like, yes, yes. It's actually the only thing I want to have you want to have a drink like yes yes it's actually the only thing i want to do right now yeah and then you have two or three of those and you feel so so fantastic now you now it's dinner time and i have no idea how much food's going in my mouth i'm just happy and eating dinner with my family fat and happy baby yes that was my deload month training but

not really but uh actually on that on that note about like that was your deload month it's like you had a planned deload month specifically you just happen to be on vacation you're on a family trip and so you just weren't training normal and i i think that's that that is a totally legit way to go about doing deloads um you know there's there are times where you wouldn't want to do this where you have specific competitions coming up and whatnot but if you're just a regular athlete and you don't you don't not competing at all or you're competing infrequently or whatever it is um and you travel a lot just making your travel time your automatic deload week which is what i've done for many many

years you know prior to covid we you know minimum we're traveling you know for five days out of the month you know once a month we go on a trip but usually more like twice a month and when i'm on trips i don't worry about training the same way that i do when i'm at home yeah certainly we train while we're on the road we just you know we're in gyms all the time and we like training so we just we happen to train but when i'm on the road i We just, you know, we're in gyms all the time and we like training. So we just, we happen to train. But when I'm on the road, I'm not quite as concerned about it because what we're doing on the road, we can only do when we're on the road.

And so I tend to stay focused on work and shooting shows and networking and having fun with the people that we're hanging out with. And training isn't, it's kind of on the back burner, even though it's always still around. But you can just do that,

you know, every couple of weeks, like, you know, you're of weeks, like, you know, you're going to be visiting someone or whatever. Just don't stress out about trying to like make it to the gym when you're visiting your aunt, just, just hang out and have those couple of days off. And then when you get back home, now you're rested and you can, you can get back at it.

That's a good time to try something new too. But that's what I was going to say. Yeah. I actually, so with the last month being a good example um my training was a lot of band works uh band work and you know bands are super effective but they're not my number one go-to like i'm not gonna i like barbells a lot and i'm not gonna be doing banded rows on a tree as like my, my main source of strength training for the rest of my life. Is that what you did up there bands when you were in New Hampshire?

There's the, uh, so, uh, I did a lot of band stuff of just, yeah, there's only so much you could do. And I brought, um, a set of bands with me because it fits in my backpack and super easy. Um, and the more I use them, I actually really enjoy some of the stuff. Um, as far as like, um,

single joint things. Yeah. You don't really want to be doing, uh, you know, like I would say that for some of the bigger lifts like a a banded type deadlift or row there just isn't enough tension in the lower half of the movements um to like to feel what i enjoy feeling in a deadlift. However, when I use them with the bar or if I have a dumbbell

or I have something else, I've been, I have noticed, um, my form is much better. I get, cause it forces me to move throughout the entire range of motion in a better way. So I've been using the bands a lot, but the gyms were closed. So there's nothing I can do. It's not like my, you know, I have this gym here as everything. Well, not everything, because I always want to keep toys to it,

but it's got pretty much everything I need. I've got sandbags. I've got enough bumpers here. I've got a squat rack, a platform. Everything's great. But when you leave that, there's my favorite. This pull-ups and then I'd come back and I'd push her 20 times. And then I do nine pull-ups and work all the way from 10 to one doing pull-ups with your daughter. It's so funny. Yeah.

Pushing her on the tree swing. Um, and then there was a couple Hills. So Hill sprints, I'd hit that every week. And then I'd go for a long run. And assuming a rooster didn't throw me in a ditch, it was super peaceful because I was like out in rural America and trees are everywhere. And it was fantastic. But that was like, it wasn't like I took any time off.

I still trained five days a week. And even when I got to the lake, there was an erg out there, which I brought home. It's over there. Woo-hoo-hoo! Yeah. I got a rowing machine in my garage now. I feel like a gangster. I was doing a lot of, like, rowing intervals and working really hard.

And when you're – I'm sure you have all felt this before. When you work – when your family exercises and they think they're exercising and then you exercise in front of them and they don't realize how strong travis mash is and you go like oh no no we're just we're just squatting this is normal yeah yeah when you're when you're on an erg doing intervals and like each stroke, I'm like grunting and screaming to maintain specific paces. They came up and it was like, are you okay? It's like, oh, yeah, no, this is super fun. Do we need to do an intervention?

Like pools of sweat because it's 95 degrees outside. It's like going down the deck. It's like, are you okay? Do you need water? Like, no, this is just like Tuesday. Where did you get that rowing machine? You found it? No, so I have no actual relation.

But Ashton's cousin, both of his daughters row in high school. Yeah. So they have two rowers, but because of COVID, one of the, they're basically their final season got canceled. So now they just have two rowers at their house and they're like,

we don't need two of these. And I was like, I need one so badly because you can't buy equipment anywhere right now. I could probably sell that thing for like three times the cost, but it has too much value to me. So when I saw that they had two, and I was like, well, I'll definitely take one of those home.

We just cleared some room in the car, and now I have a rower. It's so rad. That's awesome. Yeah. I get tired of running. Yeah. I get super tired of it. That's why you got your Peloton.

I need a rower. We weren't even thinking about getting a Peloton because you just have some sort of different conditioning stimulus besides running. Yeah. I like to i like to separate you know like i like to when i'm bodybuilding i like to be bodybuilding and like when i'm cardio and i like to do cardio i don't like try to mix it together i like lifting heavy too i mean it's just a thing so doing like light circuits i can't go as heavy as i want

i should so really i should do circuits i wouldn't go so heavy but yeah well then the gym opened back up and i realized how much i love lifting weights i could not contain myself we did it at a whole show on how to get back to strength training appropriately it's like take your time slow down day one's gonna be tough day one's gonna be hard you're going to be excited. I went all in. I went sauna, 10 by 10, multiple, multiple different exercises. I just sat on the cable row machine and just pulled away. It made me so happy. I was back. Do you have a cable?

Yeah, go ahead. Travis, I feel like you could rebrand your your deload weeks as as like speed weeks like speed under the bar weeks something like that like yeah all weight lifters want to be faster under the bar you know faster pulls etc etc like branding it as a speed week you know or and or like a skill week technique week especially for the any of your newer lifters that still have you know little little flaws they're working on they're not just perfecting a basically perfect movement but they're they're still learning i feel like i feel like focusing on technique and speed those things kind of go

hand in hand the better your technique is the more you can actually be fast under the bar you could have a deload week rebranded as that and i think it would be accepted by weightlifters i do too it's a great idea because they they definitely the young ones definitely do not like to see deload week bodybuilding week too get pump on so yeah get me no nobody likes to do less brian man you know he would say that that should be that bodybuilding should be your focus especially if you've really pushed it you know so like um say you're getting near competition and you're like really hammering it, especially if you've really pushed it. Say you're getting near a competition and you're really hammering it.

If you notice a 10% decrease in performance, bodybuilding would be the way to get yourself out of that. That's what he would say. He would say no snatch clean and jerk is what he said. Just bodybuild and try to recover and get your

endocrine system firing again. What know what he said on it when we did a round table about oh oh it leaves you oh yeah what was the last thing i said something about brian man oh yeah just you know brian was he just said that like he thinks the bodybuilding is is the way you should go it's like you know no stats clean jerk on deload just bodybuild you know I'm not going to be that extreme but definitely going to start looking into that more because he said it helps to get your inner system like primed and like um you know firing better so um well the the final piece that i want to talk about is kind of getting people back from a deload week and back into their training how do you structure

their their training to kind of ramp them back up assuming they're not at you know going into a competition but during a normal training block um you know and getting those volumes and intensities back is it more of a progression or do we just say time you're back let's it's pretty intense we deload to reload so we like give so like we go you know moderate volume highest volume deload high intensity so yeah when they get back it's time to go heavy so that's the thing you can't just you know you couldn't just do bodybuilding because you do have to be pushing enough intensity so that they don't go backwards with their neuromuscular system so yeah when they get back it's like it's on like uh they know that that's when they're going to go the heaviest

it won't be as it won't be as quite as much volume, but they're definitely going to go heavy. So a higher intensity, but a little bit lower on the total volume side? Yeah, it'll be maybe the same or less, even than the week one. It won't be anywhere near week two, but it'll be going heavy for sure. Performance, it's time to

look at performance. Travis Mash. Where can the people find you? Mashly.com. I'm about to go on vacation. Take us out. We're going to just leave.

Where are you going? Thursday we're going to go to Hickory. To where Little Orion is. We're just going to look around for some homes how'd it go out there with him last weekend it was great yeah it's fun I love that facility me too man it was fun I just

walked around I'm pumped then we're going to like literally like spin a bottle and like we're going to explore beautiful zero plan we're both very spontaneous so it's perfect beautiful we did that one time or like we've done it multiple times with the best adventure after we got engaged we went to portland and spin the bottle it's like you just we had no hotels yeah stated cool little

airbnbs that we just found along the way the pacific the coast so interesting when you go and do stuff like that because if you had told me like we're going to go to the ocean the ocean the pacific northwest is not what i would have ever considered the ocean it's like there's like rocks in the middle of it yeah it's just windy and but it was rad. Was it nice? It was gorgeous. I mean, it's like – You've seen whales? I can't remember. And then we went out to Mount Hood, which was rad.

Yeah. Dude, I ate in Portland. What's the name of that donut shop? Voodoo Donuts? I went. I had not just like one overly aggressive donut. That was like the only place that we were guaranteed to go was to that donut shop because it's so famous. And I ate, I went into like a coma for like four hours.

It like almost ruined vacation. Isn't Mount Hood a volcano? No, the donut shop, it's Voodoo Donuts in Portland. But you said you went to Mount Hood. Oh, yeah. It's a volcano, isn't it? Doug? I don't think so.

I think multiple mountains on that whole Cascade Mountain range are volcanoes. Obviously, St. Helens was like the famous one that blew up in 1980. But I think Hood technically is, but it's completely inactive. Nobody's worried about it. That's my guess. I grew up there. I haven't talked about any of that in a long time, but I think that's the case. You just said a volcano

went off in 1980 and it was like a giant one. We haven't had one of those happen in 40 years. There's no way we're not going to have a volcano erupt soon, like a big one. Just think about that. The whole fucking earth is about to just blow the top off of a giant mountain, spew a bunch of ash into the world.

Yeah, it's actually active. Yeah, it's like Malahut is a potentially active stratovolcano. Potentially. Who knows? You could be skiing. You could be windsurfing in the lake right next to it, which is like the best windsurfing in the world. Or you could die. The top of this

earth is just going to get blown off by magma and you're going to melt in place. That's insane. Volcanoes are insane yeah oh i love it every time i think about crazy shit like that i just the dave matthews band song it's like all the little ants go marching we all think we like no shit we're just a bunch of little ants running in circles we don't know anything. We're so vulnerable.

So soft. But we have the internet. We know shit for sure. Yeah. Doug Larson. When the volcano goes off, you don't know anything. When the volcano goes off, don't come to get me. I'll be there for the cleanup crew.

I'll be the strongest worker you got shoveling hot lava. God. That was probably the dumbest comment you can make shoveling lava no one shovels lava that was awesome I was thinking it but I was like like a little spade shovel like millions of gallons of

hot lava and I'm shoveling away with a snow shovel yeah right it'll be like nothing happening just melts right out of my hand shoveling away with a snow shovel yeah right melt it'll be like you know nothing happening just melts right out of my hand all right doug larson bring some sense to this you're actually real quick i i read i sorry i listened to uh a story of a guy who was on the mountain when mount st helens erupted and he was far enough away where it was like it was on the mountain when Mount St. Helens erupted. And he was far enough away where it was like the perfect medium

where he wasn't so close where he just like instantly died. He wasn't so far away where he was safe. He was like right in that no man's land where he got heavily affected but didn't die. So he was just like, you're like a big something going on in the background. And then all of a sudden just, you know, the blast is going many hundreds of miles per hour right and so he just got like hit in the back and got thrown

face down and just got stapled to the ground and then his entire back got got burned by hot and gases over him but no lava and like lived to tell the tale of what it was like to like be in a whoa be in a volcanic eruption. Like all the trees, like, you know, they blew it. That, that whole eruption didn't blow up.

It blew out the side of the mountain. You can go look at videos online of this happening. And it just flattened all the trees. All the trees just went straight over to the side. Um, and he like got, got in that whole mess where all the trees got flat next to him, but he just somehow survived and didn't die.

But his whole back got burned wow wow there's gotta be someone to live to tell the tale there's all like there's so many humans there's one person that's right in no man's land where you're gonna like half your body gets burnt because half of it was in the destruction zone there's a geologist on the mountain. He was by himself. He was camping. The funny thing is they knew. The people had told them it was an abbey. They're like, why? I'm not one of those dudes.

When someone says there's a hurricane coming, I'm like, oh, really? I'm out. If someone says it is a volcano that could erupt, 10% chance. Really? I'm out. I'm not going to be out. That's not going to happen. No way.

Would you ever just go to Yellowstone Park then? Because it could erupt. It depends on what the odds are. If it's like one in a billion, yeah. But if it's like there's a 20% chance it's going to erupt, no way. I actually, if Yellowstone erupts, I want to be standing right on Old Faithful. billion yeah but if it's like there's a 20 chance it's going to erupt no way hell i actually if yellowstone erupts i want to be standing right on old faithful because i do not want to be part of the cleanup crew when 25 of our country just explodes out of the core of the earth and just

no one even knows what would happen if you just swallowed 25 of our country super volcanoes just where does it go does it just sink back down into the core of the earth does it stay up there and just make it hot like what what happens when that much stuff just blows up probably the dinosaurs that's it yeah jesus would we all imagine it would mess up you know the heat all right my two-year-old staring at me i gotta go everybody now realizes that we actually know what we're talking about we're actually know what we're talking about when we talk about deloads and have nothing no we have no clue when we're talking about natural disasters. I don't want to be near him.

That's what I know. All right. I'm Anders Wagner at Anders Wagner. We're Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shrugged. Make sure you get over to Barbell Shrugged.com forward slash store. Use the code Shrugged to save 10% programs, eBooks, nutrition,

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