Barbell Shrugged - Do Old School Strength Principles Still Hold Up? w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #609

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What defines old school strength training. What is the difference between old school and new school training. Why the information era killed old school strength What are essentials for building old school strength How to maintain strength and athleticism for a lifetime   Connect with our guests:   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”  

Shrugged family, this week on Barbell Shrugged, we are talking about old school strength principles. And do they still hold up? This show is near and dear to my heart because I feel like I've been through this massive progression in my life where I started in these like old school ways of lifting weights, reading the old school magazines, reading the old school books from guys before all the scientists showed up and before we had Instagram and endless information. And it was just about getting big and strong and lifting as much weight as possible and getting big. There was a big focus on just how brutally strong can you get? And I think there's been a weird turn in the industry in which we all try to be the smartest instead of maybe trying to figure out who's actually doing the work, who's putting the time in under the barbell.

And this show really gets to the heart of that. I feel like I became part of that who can be the smartest and who can have the nerdiest little tidbit and who can have the Instagram new exercise that looks so cool, even though it likely doesn't have a ROI that is really high enough for people to actually be doing that type of exercise or that variation. And what I've really returned to in having in having my personal training program, uh, just be as efficient and effective as possible is really getting back to doing the basics as well as I possibly can. And, and I think there's a ton of value in everybody just focusing on the basics, focusing on making your squat better, your deadlift better, your press better, your bench

press better, your row better, sticking to these very basic core exercises, the body weights from dips and pull ups and really mastering the basics and focusing on increasing muscle mass, strength and size. If we can do those core things, you have a problem that is very hard to solve. And movement capacity is really important. Your ability to train efficiently, effectively is really important. And we often start looking outside of those core lifts and outside as if there's some secret special sauce that is going to be delivered somewhere in some special, super awesome program.

And the reality is, I think that we should all be going back to those old school principles. We should all be focusing on the major lifts. We should all be focusing on the way that we move better, which is going to have the largest return on our time investment, our energy investment, our strength and size investment. Everything that we are trying to get can be done in a much simpler way. And you don't need all the information. But before we get into the show, I want to thank our sponsors. Buy Optimizers. At some point, we've all been sold a big lie, including yours truly. It's called the protein lie. Starting in the 1980s, supplement companies began pushing

massive protein consumption. We all believe that more protein equals more muscle growth. I'm here to tell you it's all a big fat lie. Let's say you eat an eight ounce chicken breast. You're consuming about 40 grams of protein. However, just because something contains 40 grams of protein, it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to absorb all 40 grams. Without enzymes, most of it ends up in your toilet bowl. This is because your small intestine can only absorb protein that is broken down into smaller building blocks called amino acids. It doesn't matter if you're consuming 30 grams of protein or 300 grams of protein.

If you don't have a sufficient supply of enzymes to digest the protein, your muscles will be starving for those vital building blocks. That is why it's crucial you take a high quality enzyme. Before you run out and buy a bottle of enzymes, you need to know exactly what to look for. The sad truth, though, is most enzymes are of little to no value if you want to build muscle. The hefty costs stop most companies from developing and stabilizing proteolytic enzymes. The one I trust is Masszymes from Bioptimizers. I actually really love this product. Masszymes is a full-spectrum enzyme formula with more protease than any other commercially available with five different kinds

of protease. Plus, it contains all the other key enzymes you need for optimal digestion. Lab tests show that Masszymes contains more than two times the protease than other leading enzyme formulas. It is by far the best value in the enzyme industry. And you can watch Masszymes rapidly dissolve raw steak when you go to masszymes.com forward slash shrugged, just like it sounds. M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash shrugged. And you can try it today, risk free. They're 365 day, full money back guarantee

is the gold standard in the industry. If you don't feel how Masszymes helps you upgrade 365-day full money-back guarantee is the gold standard in the industry. If you don't feel how Masszymes helps you upgrade your digestion and power through your food, their support team will give you a no-questions-asked refund. Oh, and one more thing. For a limited time, Bioptimizers is also giving away a free bottle of their best-selling products, P3OM and HCL, with select purchases. When you go to masszymes.com forward slash shrug, be sure to enter the code shrug to save 20% off your order.

Friends, I have to tell you about a company that has radically shifted my family and my fitness all at the exact same time. This company has combined family and fitness because they are not separate entities. Healthy habits are not taught, they are caught. Could there be a better way to instill healthy habits in your kids than combining your fitness with their fun? Insert the greatest invention for busy fitness-focused parents, Swing Sesh. Swing Sesh has taken your kid's favorite thing, a swing set playground, and built in a fully functional gym outfitted with a squat rack, two pull-up bars, dip stands, and box jumps. Instead of scrolling Instagram between sets, now you are pushing kids on swings. Instead

of checking emails, now you're playing tag. Rest periods are replaced by hopping on the slide. Yes, I'm telling you, this is the greatest thing in the world because all of this is true. A real life, fully decked out gym attached to the most epic swing set that fits perfectly in your backyard. You officially just became the coolest and most jacked mom and dad and best friend all at once. And because we love it so much,

we have hooked you up with a coupon code to save 5%. Head over to swing sesh.com. Use the code shrugged at checkout. People, if you have been following me on Instagram at all, you have seen tons of videos of me lifting weights outside in my backyard on a swing set with a squat rack. It is the most epic find. All of my friends come over with their kids,

and they play on the swing set while we lift weights. There is no better way to instill healthy habits in your children. There is no better way to bring your friends and make for a healthier neighborhood, and you get to be at the center of it all with Swing Sesh. Head over to SwingSesh.com right now. Use the code SHRged at checkout and you can become the coolest, most jacked parents with swing sesh.

We also need to thank our friends over at Organifi. Your body is an amazing organic machine. It turns food into energy, heals wounds, supports your consciousness, and so much more, but it needs the right fuel and signals to function at its best. Some of those signals include adaptogens. These are the compounds that balance hormones and help you deal with stress in a healthier way. If you're feeling tired, these compounds give you a boost of energy. If you're stressed, they help you return to a natural state of calm. They literally help you adapt to the stress of life. My favorite source

of adaptogens is Organifi. They create these delicious superfood blends that mix easily with water. They make it easy for me to get more adaptogens in my day like ashwagandha, reishi mushrooms, rhodiola, and more. If you're looking for an easy way to support your amazing body, I highly recommend trying Organifi. The green, the red, and the gold. Super easy, super delicious, loaded with micronutrients and adaptogens. Friends, get over to Organifi.com forward slash barbell shrugged forward slash shrugged where you can save 20%. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged save 20% on the green, red, and gold juices. Let's get into the show.

Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Vardner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mast. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we are talking about how well do old school strength training methodologies and the mindset behind old school strength stand up in today's world the reason uh this week we have um next week we're putting up a show with bert soren's dad pops richard soren and there's a picture in his office of that man at 242 pounds of just some man that you do not want to run into, uh, in a bar with him having a bad night while he was laying bricks all day. Um, and our conversation with him was super cool. And if there's like a single person that has seen weightlifting through all of its forms, uh, and, and how it has transformed not only his life,

but thousands and thousands of people's, and then all of the modalities that just lifting weights has taken over since he found it. I'd love to know what you guys' thoughts are in a cool discussion on, like, what do you think has made it through the test of time in lifting weights? But before we get into that, dude, Ryan Grimslandland 40409 is that what it was 430 418 190 kilograms i feel like um i have never seen a human being's core like if you look at ryan you don't think like oh that dude's thick of course his body wouldn't snap in half with 418 pounds over it dude somehow he saves that jerk i don't know and his

erectors like i i feel like if you wanted to like show what it looks like to contract your erectors that video is like maximum contraction in every aspect of your back that is physically possible by a human being because that's that's that's double body weight and change right it's like almost three times yeah i was about to say now that i say that and kind of do rough math that's a way more pushing three yeah like two eight something like that gosh yeah yeah he was two kilos under the senior world record the senior world record being anybody on the planet two kilos over the scene, sorry, sorry, sorry. Excuse me. Yes, over, over. Yeah. Higher than the world record. He jerks 190 kilos.

The world record is 188 kilos, right? Yeah, yes. And he's 19. College boy. I don't know, man. When he put it on, like, he did 180 really well. And it was so beautiful. It was crisp. And I I was like I just assumed

that would be it it was a massive jerk and I saw him put 190 on and we had a bunch of visitors yesterday and I looked I said are you going to jerk there because sometimes he'll do post activation potentiation it really works well for him so he'll go

like he'll put 190 on and then jerk 80 something. And he's like, nope, I'm jerking that. He says, this is going to be easy. I'm like, it wasn't easy. It's going to be easy. I was like, let's go. You know, I was like, he smashed it.

It didn't look easy, but that's understandable. No, it was the hardest grind I've ever witnessed. He got that in a low split too. He started sinking. I was like, fuck, he's going to go. He's going to crack in half. Literally, his back looks like he's going to snap

and it's like concave and then snap in half. You wouldn't expect your spine to be strong in that position, but it's literally like every muscle fiber in his back is so tight to be able to hold on to that. How far off is he from cleaning that?

Oh, you know, I think we're going to test just the clean on Friday, and then the way he works, he'll know he can jerk it, he'll know he can clean it, and then we'll try to clean and jerk it. Not far, because he's setting lots of – like he did 190 front squat really easily like last week, and he's setting lots of – like he did 190 front squat really easily like last week. And he's the guy that can do pretty much whatever front squats he can clean. And so, like, he'll be really close to it. But the world record is only 188.

So I think he could take a crack at that for sure, clean and jerk. Wait, what's his current best at the moment? 172. That was last year, you know, at the moment? 172. That was last year. It's the best he's done. Well, that was actually in June, early June. So, like, he's – back then when he did 172, his best front squat was 182. And so now his best front squat is 190.

So, like, he's the least in the 80s. That's insanity. So the world record for the snatch is 155 in that same weight class. What's his best? 140. 140. Yeah, man. He's only 19 years old to get 10 years to chase world records.

I know. It makes me like, see, okay, so here's the dilemma. He's like, you know, like I see that he's all over this.

So, you know, do we just jump on it and try to break these world records or do we like, I think you should get your ass off of Instagram, letting people know what's possible out there. You know, let that man be a savage. I love that.

He's going to show up one day. Like everyone saw that. Yeah. Nobody to show up one day. Like, everyone saw that. Nobody just passes by. If you have to go share a platform with that dude, nobody's just like, no, I'm not following Ryan and his training at all. He's already got a girlfriend. Get him off the internet. No, it is a girlfriend.

Oh, I broke up. Good. Good for him. That's why he's back moving bigger weights around. Exactly. Well, like, nobody that's got to compete with him didn't see that and just go, oh, that's possible. Now I got things to do. Like, that's the very real thing about sharing all that.

What are they going to do about it? Well, that's – What you're going to do. Knowing it's possible is also motivation. It's like the four-minute mile. Or it's, like, disheartening. It's definitely is also motivation. It's like the four-minute mile. Or it's like disheartening. It's definitely disheartening. I want to break the hearts of every 67 in the entire world. I want them all to quit.

That is also very true. I love that mindset as well. We're all playing for second place. Right. I'm like, what are you going to do about how strong I am? Nothing. Shoot for second. That's okay.

I think not only was the catch obviously wildly incredible, the thing I don't know – so my best jerk ever is 318. When I – and I clean and jerked it, so my best jerk ever is three 18 when I, and I, I clean and jerked it. And it was only because my cameraman, uh, was a very famous human being that I was like not missing a single lift ever

when we trained together. Yeah. Yeah. I, so you have like extra fire. I've only clean and jerked that one time in my life. I've only had three 18 over my head one time. I think I've had 315 over my head like maybe three times in my life. When you walk out 418 or when you roll 418 into your shoulders and stand it up off the blocks, it feels like a

trillion pounds. I couldn't even imagine it. The body weight that I did that at, I was probably like 190, 193. So that's not even close to double body weight, much less nearly triple body weight. It's like a 500 pound jerk for me rolling off of blocks. I would pass out so quick. I wouldn't be able to stand it up. I actually couldn't stand it up. I bet I couldn't quarter front squat 500 off of blocks. Let me tell you why he's phenomenal. It's like if you watch the 180, which is in the stories,

and you watch the 190, you will notice not one thing changed. He's like one in a million. Most people, when they get to that weight that they've never done, they're a little worried about, they'll hold it there a little bit longer or they'll do something different. He never ever changes a thing. Come watch him snatch. It doesn't matter if it's 70 or if it's a new record

at 42. It doesn't matter. He's going to do the exact same thing. It's going to look the exact same way. I actually, just even thinking about the normal do the exact same thing. It's going to look the exact same way. I actually, uh, just even thinking about what, like the normal chain of events,

when I would load over 300 pounds onto a bar to practice heavy jerks, I would hit like one or two, like sets one and two, where everything is like maximally tight. You've got all your energy. Your breathing is perfect. By the time, like set three and four, when I'm in the 300 pound range, and this was like peak training and peak aggression and peak everything, like real focused training, I would immediately

notice taking the bar off the blocks that my dip would turn into crap. I would get forward. Like my core was just shot just from like loading 300 more than one time into the front rack. Like you could just feel that your spine is just like, just things aren't as tight. So to think about triple body weight and being able to like breathe and stabilize in that position is truly incredible like just even doing the quarter squat to get into the front rack stand it up and be able to jerk like to have the proper depth on a jerk like every aspect of what we could dig into for like countless how hard it is because there's so many things that happen when you're at that level of, and I've never jerked that percentage of my body weight.

It's just so insane to think that, yeah, to be able to like to have pop at the bottom of the dip and feel that elasticity in your muscles is mind-blowing to me because I feel like anytime I did that, it was like so sluggish. Like I was just doing it because I needed to move a heavy weight versus like working on speed and timing and being snappy under the bar. Here's the thing I want to leave you all with on this topic is that before we worked out yesterday, we tested a lot of their RSI scores, reactive strength index.

And so that's where you take, um you know you do a depth jump and we chose 45 centimeters as the as the height and we look at the ground contact time and it's divided by the height that they go and it gives you a score and like uh is it ironic that his was number one by far which is elasticity shows, elasticity, neuromuscular coordination, and he crushed, you know. So, like, I feel like weightlifting coaches probably should look at that score. But I'll give you more. We're studying it, so I'll give you more information on it as we go.

But just a foreshadowing, if you're a weightlifting coach or even a CrossFit coach, if you want to know who's got the potential to do the best in Olympic weightlifting, the reactive strength index is something you should consider. This is such a rad segue into what we're going to talk about today. So the reason I've been thinking about this topic is in the last couple weeks, we've interviewed Richard Soren. We had, holy crap, the greatest of all time power lifter uh and and just being down at sorenix and seeing like when you walk into the museum and you realize like all of that stuff that he has there is 50 60 years old like before sorenix had built like the the the power rack before like Rogue was outfitting thousands of

gyms across the world before they figured out like perfect barbells and perfectly how to make them spin and all the stuff like we've been hanging out with some of those people and talking to those people in the last couple weeks and when you walk into that museum it's like here's the dumbbell well how much does that dumbbell weigh? 117 pounds. Well, that's weird because I've never picked up 117 pound dumbbell in my life. I've picked up the hundreds many of times. I've picked up the 90s, but I've never touched 106 pound dumbbell before. And it's like when people started lifting weights, they had to create systems without much knowledge and without – as Eddie Cohen was talking about, he just went by feel. It's like, dude, there's genius inside what you're talking about in that you're simplifying it to like, oh, it just feels right. Yeah. louis york barbell like there's some people that were around doing some really cool stuff but there

was no such thing as andy galpin no not in our world no unfortunately it was just louis would have been the as close to a scientist as any of us had and he's a mad scientist if anything you know like he's crazy but yeah we have r textbooks, but they probably weren't even... Or not textbooks, but those books weren't even translated, I would imagine, until well into Louis' career and when he found them. I feel like 90s, you know, but, you know, 90s, you know, that was Bud Charnegut in Michigan. But Louis read them in the 90s.

It's just like, but you have a guy who doesn't have a true grasp of science reading those books. So like what he thinks is a lot of it is really good. Like, you know, I've learned so much from him. Some of it, he just, you got to have a background to really understand what they're saying. And you got to say, you know, well, these dudes are on drugs. So how does it apply? So there's a lot of things you've got to take into consideration. Yeah, but that's really what I want to dig into

because I think there's a mindset. When I think about just old-school training, it's how – and this actually really surprised me when we talked to Ed. When I think about it, I think about how much weight can we put on the bar, how many times can we about it, I think about how much weight can we put on the bar? How many times can we squat it? And then how close to breaking ourselves every single day can you get there? You look at Arnold's days in the gym, and it's like, yeah, well, most of the time he was laying out at the beach. But when he was there, it was like every day to failure on every

single exercise and and pushing as hard as like if you read his books and watch the movies you realize like those guys were going so hard with very little information outside of like i know i'm growing that's that that's like the whole thing's like well now i need my arms to get bigger we're gonna do double the amount of arms now well that just depends on what you're after you know like i think they had it dead on for hypertrophy we've now that we've all talked to you know the best of the business when it comes to hypertrophy they all would agree that you know getting as close to failure as often as uh as often as possible and as high a frequency as possible is the way to do it. So they were dead on.

Yeah. And I think Ed Combs did. Travis, you've been around the longest. What do you consider to be old school training methods? You know, like the older I get, the more I come back to like not a lot has changed it's like um you know a lot of things that you know man like louis stuff came from uh the culver city barbell like uh there was a the west side was actually in california and he learned from them they were doing a lot of the conjugate stuff way back then you know so like i don't know that a lot has changed maybe the fact that like the only thing

that would separate maybe old school from new school would be velocity you know getting to look at that would be um bands and chains um you know because they didn't have bands and chains until i guess that started in the late 90s and so but really we're still like you know compensatory acceleration that was fred outfield way back in the day so i don't know that a lot of it is that new it's just um more people are getting more scientific yeah i think that that's kind of like what i what i when i when i look at where a coach like you that's that's literally got someone like ryan and morgan and you're tailoring these things so we're not just talking

about like people getting in shape where we're talking about like, what does literally the top of the mountain look like? Like what does that, that very peak performance look like? Um, how, how have you seen like Olympic weightlifting for somebody like you were at the training center and comparing your training program to someone like Ryan's, there has to be a massive, I shouldn't say massive, like maybe some of the principles look the same, but what, what looks different in what you're testing versus what they were testing, um, or what you're testing with Ryan now, like, I'm sure there wasn't some RSI score that you were looking at to know when to peak him. And then all the stuff that you're putting into athlete monitoring and HRV, like how much do you think that that, yeah.

Like when did you start to see a lot of that stuff come in? Cause I doubt it was like while you were at the training center. No, no. Louie talked about velocity kind of when he, you talked about the Tendo unit and the importance of speed. The problem is, is that what he didn't talk about is that, you know, you can't just do, you know, everybody can do a certain percentage at a certain speed, you know, because like some people did west side barbell they're like i don't get anything from the dynamic effort because they were already fast at that certain percentage it's so like what you know so profiling it what would have been the good idea and that didn't really start i think you know you got to give uh compliments to brian man you know he's the one who

did a lot of the research he's the one who talked, at least. And he's the one who has done a lot of the research to bring velocity-based training to the forefront. And then you have, when it comes to weightlifting, then you have people like Spencer, Arnold, me. You have Will Fleming would be the three that I know of who have really taken it and pushed it. Well, this has been something that I've been like, you could call it over the last

how about just sent in the last three years it's like really talking to a lot of these like people that are in the lab studying all of it like galpin still to this day is like one of the guys that i just um i think he's just the best in the business i respect his brain so much and then you get like lane on here talking about nutrition. And one of the things that always comes across when you're talking to them is the number of times that they say things like, well, we kind of have an idea that this is the thing. Or we really believe that this works. There's a lot of stuff.

It's like they're testing a single variable looking for some sort of hint into what's actually going on. And then we get online and all of the I think and we believe and a lot of like the indicators of specific success become, I read this paper and this is fact. And the thing that I struggle with is like when you talk to Ed and he goes, well, I would set up like nine month long training blocks. Well, all those studies that are done and all of that stuff, like how do you, how do you tell the three of us on, on a call that 25 to 35 years into your training, this is how you do it the best way. When all of the studies are done

on kids that are running 12-week programs so that there can be enough time in the last three weeks to write a paper on it. That's what I put a post on Twitter yesterday saying, you know, asking like, you know, what are your thoughts on research? Is it applicable? You know, like, what are some of the things that need to improve? And, like, you know, most people say it doesn't apply to me or it's done on nonathletes. And so, like, how can, you know, the normal college kid that's going out

drinking all the time with zero genetics, how can research on that kid apply to Ed Cohn? It probably doesn't. Yeah. So the point being is it's really cool to be in a situation where you know i have the athletes that are super good at my college like they're basically like super duper guinea pigs you know like yeah it's cool that we're going to find out some things that apply to and i'm going to do do – I have a control group of like – we have people on our team who are just doing it because they love weightlifting and they're kind of good, and they might never travel with us to a meet. But I'm going to do some of them as compared to Morgan.

You just called me recreational. No, you're definitely not. I'm talking about like, you know, you're actually, if you're, you know, clean jerking, you know, 317 pounds, you're definitely not recreational. I'm talking about people, you know, are nowhere near that. And so to know what happens with them is going to be the really cool S compared to Ryan. Then we start to learn the differences and then you can start to at least make assumptions like, look, this doesn't apply at all. The stuff done

on these guys doesn't apply at all to these guys. Or we'll say, yeah, it does. We'll find out. It's cool to have this opportunity because I think it's not been replicated. I actually feel like your PhD right now in athlete monitoring and the ability to have that carry out over a four-year period,

I'm not saying you're going to be like that it's the end-all, be-all, but I think it's a much more indicative story that can be told by having four years of data versus a 12-week study and now someone's got a week to go write a paper. Yeah, as Doug knows, like 12 weeks, I mean, you might see a little change. But, you know, this is another thing about research that drives me crazy. If they do something 12 weeks and you get like a two percent you know change and they're like this is not enough you know this is uh what is it what's the word wording the scientific wording but like because only two percent that's seen that's statistically insignificant and i'm

like bullshit and two percent times four because when i do four of those blocks it comes two four six eight eight. Eight percent is the difference in like, you know, damn, that could be the difference. Times four years. Yes. All of those blocks times four years. Super significant to someone like Ryan Morgan. I actually heard Jose Antonio. He's a nutrition guy, founder of ISSN.

He was on stage at NSCA talking specifically about that a number of years ago where he was talking about things that are statistically significant versus things that are practically significant. It just depends on the level of athlete you're coaching. Like if you're, if you're trying to do fat loss with like someone who's, who's never trains and they just want to lose some weight and they, they lose a couple pounds,

well they probably should have lost 50 pounds or whatever it is. And so it's not that big of a deal. But if you're, like, in the final stages of your bodybuilding show and you need to lose, like, three pounds and you lose those three pounds, it might be the difference between, you know, first place and not even being on the podium. Right. Right, man. So, like, there's a lot of holes in research.

I mean, definitely research is something to guide you at least you know something to to start to see where to look towards but like to say that it's law not not much of it is like law because like like for example like um in the 90s the research would have said that steroids do not work. Okay. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm like, boys, I have the data that says it does. And it works really, really well. So they lost a lot of credibility.

I'm taking this class on ergogenic A's right now. We all laughed. You heard that you're like come on it works you know i would watch someone at sorry someone at your university told you that no no is that what happened no no the professor was just saying you know we're going over ergogenic aids he was talking about in the 90s you know the uh and it was like the biggest it was like the biggest research group in the entire world. Their research was saying it doesn't work. But then you start to look deeper into it.

And, you know, they were using very small amounts. And, like, there was improvements, but significantly, in their eyes, significantly insignificant. I'm like, but then you start to, when they started to look at, like, what like 600 milligrams, nine day, you know, then it's like, it's a miracle. But they lost all the credibility at that point. You know, people like, you know, who are in that world just laugh at them and be like, all right, you think what you want. So now I'm going to listen to anything you say. So they lost a lot of i've had that happen on i've had that happen on multiple occasions where i've like read the methods of a research study where i see there's some some outcome like that that says like

it doesn't work and then i read the methods and i go oh well of course it's not going to work look at what they did like right who who decided this was the best way to test this thing and i understand there's limitations with with many many things that are outside the researcher's control with with with funding and or facilities and or scheduling. Like you're talking about doing like 12-week studies. You have to kind of like pack everything into a single semester. So there are practical limitations there. But if the limitations are so great that the results of the study are going to be meaningless, then you just shouldn't do that study.

Yeah. Why waste your time yeah i'm gonna see like as i do you know my thesis i'm gonna do one you know that the irb like passes and like lets me do it and i'm gonna make sure it's like something i can get you know an a on but i'm also going to be doing my own research that's going to be for everybody for like look yeah here's what i did for nine weeks but here's what i did for four years you know here's all I did for four years. You know, here's all the research. Let's make some changes. So, you know, but I just won't get the IRB. It won't be published. It'll be published on my website, but you know,

it won't be some fancy scientific journal, but it will be the real stuff. It'll be the stuff people should read and like draw conclusions and, you know, and maybe it doesn't work, you know, for everybody, but there's a lot of different populations within my group. And I'm going to separate it because you can use RSI and DSI's you know who's strong not the strongest but super elastic can jump super high can move you know there's another word about to do think about this um our goal is to uh measure rhythm and timing which is I don't think it's that hard but you know there's always been this debate between like um Don you know my old my old um mentor and guy who worked with us

so don mccauley and then sean waxman have always had this you know big argument you know don would say it's all about the timing at the top and you know uh sean would want to emphasize you know like follow through but like let's find out you know it's easy because you can with the velocity you can measure the time that you know they take at the tip top like how long do you stay in that you know finished position yeah and it's super obvious you know when i watch videos with ryan and morgan like morgan might be the fastest when it comes to that like i think his timing is like on the keys he weighs zero seconds which is why he can get up under 205 kilograms

when he was 17 on clean. So I want to measure that so we can set that to bed. His overhead is crazy. His speed and timing is like insane. He's fearless too. You've got to be fearless. If you have any doubts in your head, you'll never be going to weightlifting, unfortunately. any doubts in your head, you'll never be going to wait. Unfortunately. Have you ever had an athlete walk up to you where like the,

the program you're writing is, is actually more of a conversation of here's what I feel I need versus you sending the program. Like when we were talking to Ed and he was talking about how he would just realize where his weak link was and then feel out the exercise that would get that specific muscle group or part of his body stronger um but he never had like a real coach right like someone to write a program he just kind of found the spot that he thought needed improved and it was always a conversation of in a way like holding himself responsible really objectively viewing where he's at where he wants to go what he needs to improve on to get there but have you ever sat down and

had or had a an athlete that is so focused on like how movement feels that they get a say and and what the program looks like? It depends on how long they've been lifting. Like, you know, like, I feel like somebody wrote some pretty good articles about that very thing. Like, you know, like, say for the first three years, you know, just shut up and do what I say. Then from, like, three to seven, I want your feedback.

I want your input. However, I'm going to – it's going's gonna be i'll be the majority of the program then from you know like seven to ten it becomes the opposite it becomes the majority is the athlete and uh you're giving them guidance and then after 10 there you know they do their own thing yeah so um so i i definitely agree with that definitely i'm going to listen to morgan i'm going to listen to ryan um people who've been with me. People who have been with me, you know, who have been weightlifting and weightlifting with a good coach for five years, yeah, man, I want to hear what you have to say, and I'm going to listen.

Like, if Ryan says, hey, X, and he's – but here's the thing. Some people are very good at that, and some people cannot be honest with themselves. And so that velocity can help you discern who that is. We had an athlete tell me, oh, I think my pull is weak right now. And so I measured their pull, and it was faster than it's ever been, which I knew that. But now I can prove it and be like, look, it's not. And so you're out of position, and you need to work on your position.

So it helps you get buy-in and to help people understand in their own brain. Some people are very good at it. Ryan just naturally knows where his body is in space in Olympic lifting, and some people are not. And so it's a good way to teach them how to get it. I think a lot of what interests me about the old school tactics is I've come back to them so much in my current training. Really in that with a limited schedule, it's actually absolutely killing me right now. The gym that I'm going to is 20 minutes

away. Like it adds an additional hour plus just in commute time, like changing, showering. So I'm not sitting in a car all sweaty and gross. Yeah. I'm with my in-laws and it's, it's pretty rural out here. And like, you can go run sprints and go for runs and all that. But like, dude's got to go lift weights. Like I just got to go do it. And, but it, it literally adds an hour to an hour and 15 minutes or so of my day. Like it's an hour if I'm on the ball and like getting after it. And then I spent 45 minutes in actually training and then shower and get back and 20 minute community toy. And it's like, it's crazy.

It's crazy. But I, when things are ideal, I really feel like I, I, I have just gone back. And, and a lot of this is, you know, Aaron Horschig when he's on squat university, when he's on and he's like, look, you don't need to do all that extra crap. As long as you're doing the main stuff he's right really well and you're doing it um with a load that allows you to move heavy weights properly and when he said that on the show like that was sometimes like the most obvious things are like still just hit you upside the head and you're like oh of course like of course that's right. Like why, why have I been, why do I overthink it so much when I just need to front squat to full depth

and move really well. Like I can do it barefoot and add a little bit better, but it's those, those things of like how simplified it was before the lab showed up where like every day was like, well, I'm just going to try and move pretty heavy weight as much as I can, as fast as I can. And I'm going to let the cumulative effects of that mindset just grow over time and see what happens because when i was 13 through 18 years old and and that's what i did it was like we're gonna go to the gym and we're gonna squat heavy a lot right my dad was never like well check this out we've got this one study over here five by five is the best for growing muscle and for developing speed and power and

then we've got this other guy talking about 20 rep squats and how we only need volume and we need to be in a massive caloric uh surplus so that we're just getting like all of that's none of that existed it was like today is leg day and he went oh, Oh, so I might throw up. That's going to suck. That's going to be really hard. But then like in the CrossFit days where I felt like I really knew what I was doing. Um, now I feel even more confused and sometimes, but it's like, you've got energy systems, you've got strength training programs mixed with Olympic lifting programs, mixed with gymnastic skill programs. And like at some point you just confuse the shit out of yourself to, to the point where you go, well, what if I just got rid of all of, all of that? And I just front squatted really,

really well and then did RDLs really, really well. It sounds like I'm getting a lot of glutes, a lot of quads, a lot of hamstrings, and then I can go home, right? Yeah, yes. And for the most part, that's the reality of it. And then everything after that becomes just things you like. Like a bucket of like this stuff makes me feel like I'm getting closer to my goal, whether I am or not.

This stuff makes me feel good about being in the gym. Yes. Everything you're saying is 100% right. I would say, pick a move. If you did this, I'm going to lay out the perfect program for 90% of people. Come in,

pick a movement, a big movement, like squatting, pulling, you know, pressing, and do it to one to two reps in reserve, and do it as many times as you can, go home, the next time you come, do the exact same thing, just do a little bit more. Like, that would be it. Like, and then maybe every third or fourth week, take a little bit of a a deload like you can take a big deload

the researchers say then come back start the whole thing over if you did that you would get stronger you would get more muscle and you'd feel good that would be it and I think if people want to yeah when you add in the

Olympic lifting side of that, and this isn't necessarily for Ryan Grimland and Morgan, but like people are going to want to do that specifically kind of CrossFitters and stuff like, I feel like so much of, if you want to add that stuff in, because if you're going to play the game of weightlifting, you should find out what the best in the world are doing and and try and at least mimic the movements um to have a the highest level conversation you can um but staying in like doubles and triples and just moving lightish weights to get the full benefit of what's there

like i don't do much olymp Olympic lifting in my garage right now, mainly because I feel like I shake the whole house dropping bars, and nobody likes that. You need one of those Unico platforms. Yeah, when there's a sleeping baby in the room over, and mom will kill you if you wake it up, dropping snatches from overhead isn't a thing. But, man, I just really got into, when i was doing it a couple months back it was like

all of the weights that i would consider like final warm-up sets now they're just like fun movements but that's the training sets those are the ones that I like to do for doubles, triples. And just doing the movement under load but moving perfectly is likely in the long run the best way to go about having long-term success. For those movements, you're right. Like I don't know the benefit for like you know a 35 year old and older to do a max effort snatch or clean jerk like i don't you know i feel like you're going to get the movement the power development all these cool things you're going to get force absorption and the catches with some maximum weights and like yeah you know and like no one if they pick this if they pick

the sport up at 35 no one is going to look really, really good at any of those lifts. So just go light and really work on them so you look better. And have fun with, like, the movement. And don't ever get caught up in going heavy in those movements. You know, squat, bench and deadlift, like, yeah, you can. And, you know, even there, I'd stay submaximal. Like I said, one to two reps in reserve. But definitely a living lifting.

I don't know why anybody snatches you know if they've never snatched and they pick it up at 35 because you know how it's just rare you likely don't have the joints I did it the other day with 135 and I just in taking like months off of snatching I can feel my, like just putting them overhead in that position, like stacking a bar on over your spine with your like overhead was like, I could feel how tight my shoulders had gotten just because I hadn't done that movement. And that's like, like set one back in the day 135. It's like, you shouldn't even be thinking about it, it should only be like to loosen up. And then I was like, oh, that's janky.

Like, I don't think I need to go to 155 at all right now. No, just do the movement, man. If you can do snatch, like you can snatch beautifully. So, like, if you can do snatch, it's awesome just to be able to do the movement. And that's all. Just be thankful you can do the movement. It's when you start going heavy. Like, you see a lot of injuries as people get older in the Olympics in

particular, I guess the sheer velocity of them, you know, cause you know, as you get older, it's like, you know, the,

you lose some types of lubrication in our connective tissue. So like, you know, it's just not worth the risk. So just do them and have fun and be like proud that you can do it. If you take that mindset, then by all means do it. And if you can't,. If you take that mindset, then by all means do it. And if you can't, like if you're crazy like me, then don't do it.

It's cool. That's okay. I think a lot. You're going to lose many physical qualities as you get older, but like speed and power are some of those qualities that you lose faster than others. Like there's no such thing as old man speed. Right.

Like old man strength is a thing at some level. So doing, doing Olympic lifts, you know, like you're saying, you know, we'll say between, you know, 50 and maybe 80%, like you're doing sub max weights. It's still kind of heavy, but you're moving fast, explosive, very crisp. The technique's going to presumably be on point, you know, assuming you're doing, you know, like one to three reps, you're not doing Metcons and whatever else. but yeah the power lifts you know you i think as you get

older you can kind of transition more to power lifting and still keep your body in check if you do it well of course like doing heavy you know doing 80 plus percent doing doing 90s 90 for for fact fast singles i don't know if you need to go to 100% very often. As you get older, you certainly can. It's not like you can't do it, but I think it's wise to stick around 90% and do fast singles. And then even if you look at force time curves or force velocity curves for 90%,

a lot of people have peak force right around 90%. And then it kind of actually drops off just a tiny bit as far as force and power production. So I don't see the need if you're not competing if it doesn't matter what your one rep max is because you don't have to beat somebody you're just trying to train for your own health and wellness and and for fun and to feel good and not be banged up like i feel like 90 is plenty heavy for the vast majority of the regular people out there you know what you can do is use velocity. And if you really want to give yourself something to shoot for,

stay at 90% forever. And then every six weeks, see if you can get a velocity record and try to go faster. Then you know if you do the same way and the technique is the same and looks great, you're definitely stronger. So you can know it without actually doing it. So, like, I would definitely recommend it, which is what I'm doing right now. I've chosen some weights.

Even in the powerless, like, I've chosen weights, and I'm going to stick with them for a long time. And my goal is to go faster at them instead of, like, pushing myself to, you know, oh, it's front squat, 220 kilograms. Yeah. That was something that was super cool about Ed's training is that he said, he just spent basically all of his training time in 80 to 85%. Yeah.

For the majority. If you, if, if you were to ask most people, like somebody that said dozens of world records, like he's only beating his own world record every single year over a 20 year period. You would assume that their training program would have them going like super

heavy every single day. Not at all. When really it's like 80, 82%, 84%, 85, 80, 82,

85. Like nobody would really think that that person wouldn't be testing and trying to prepare their body for 1,000 pounds, you know, every 12 weeks. Well, he did that last three weeks. Yeah, but that's at the end of like a nine-month block. He's done all the body. He's spent the majority of his time bodybuilding. Yeah.

So he's probably even less than 80, 85. He's doing high bar squats. I've watched him do crazy incline bench presses. He trained like a bodybuilder until, you know, time to go. I totally went to the gym that day and did seated military press behind the neck. He's a beast. 5'5", 95 pounds. Only 305 pounds off of his total. Best ever 5'5".

I saw your text. You know, I didn't want to say this to him, but when I first met him, I remember the moment. It's like I remember the moment like I remember 9-11 or like I remember when President Reagan was shot, but like you guys were alive. But anyway, we were in Orlando. It was 2001 at the first WPO championships.

And I'm going to weigh-ins and there he was. And I literally had to leave and throw up. I was so nervous. I threw up in the bathroom. That's so funny. I was like kind of starstruck as well when he hopped on. There's like a very definitive neck of ed color yeah like it was like i had to make a comment because i've seen that neck

so many times in pictures and videos and everywhere and then he gets on and you're like oh his neck's real like holy shit it goes ear to shoulder he's so jacked how is that dude so jacked i wish you'd have seen him in his prime when I saw him there. He was so jacked. Not an ounce of fat. Abs, like, just chiseled. He looked like a bodybuilder that was a power lifter. And he's right.

Like, the one thing that maybe wasn't huge was his quads. I mean, they're bigger than most. But his hamstrings, his glutes, his abs, biceps, triceps, everything else was huge. His quads were bigger than most of everybody's, but it's not as big

as Dorian Yates'. That would be the only thing. The dude was a freak, and he was very smart. I think there's also a really difficult thing in 2021 and this is a hundred percent an outcome of social media and like quick hits it's like how many people are sitting down and reading like a a full book on a methodology of training i just don't think it exists.

And when we were in Bert's office, he had volumes. They have an entire library at Sorenx on all of the books. When we went into Paul Cech's house, dude, Paul Cech's library is stacked with hand-drawn anatomy of musculature, bone structures, how joints move, full range of motion of every joint in your body, like stuff that nobody would take the time to actually create

on social media in an Instagram post because it doesn't even fit in the world of social media because you would just scroll right by a diagram that doesn't make any sense to you. But somebody took the time in those old manuals to draw a knee and say, this is a 100% flexion. This is where we need to get for a perfect squat. This is how you build that squat. This is what the hip does while you're getting that knee to that specific place. And I'm not saying I've gone through and read all those books, but I've owned training books where you sit down and you have to like read and learn about a full methodology, not just a snippet on calorie reduction or a snippet on like, should we squat below parallel?

Like you, when you shorten the message to what the characters are, it's, it eliminates so much of that, like thirst for information because you don't get the full context of what's going on. Like when Mel Siff writes a book, like you just,

you don't, you don't get to sit down and do the whole methodology. Yes, unfortunately. There's too many strength coaches out there that – or even – or individual athletes or personal trainers that, yeah, they don't. They just – they'll watch a video, literally have seen people. I was debating with somebody the other day about, I can't remember. And so I sent the research. I dropped research, and they sent me an article.

I'm like, man, are you seriously comparing some article that a guy wrote to like, here's what really happened? It's just they don't even get – you need a background is my point. You need a background is my point. You need a background. I feel like I'm the least nerdy person when it comes to this. I really try to focus on just how much volume can I get in a specific amount of time with big exercises and hit 20 sets a week in those things. I mix it up only to have fun and feel different things. Um, but it's, it's eight to twelves. It's, you know, if, if I'm, it's front squat or back squat, uh, some

sort of RDL and then like maybe like a heel elevated dumbbell squat or something like that. Like there it's, it's super, super simple. I love actually training at the gym that I'm able to get to, even though it's so far away right now, because so many cool back exercises I don't get to do at my house, um, with the cables pull downs, um, like really heavy dumbbell rows. Like there's a lot of things that I just can't do that I'm able to do at, at a, a fully functioning gym that has lots of T-bar rows. Ooh, so much fun. Love them.

I love them. I want to do them every day. I want to do them every day. The problem is you get so sore. I like that. It's silly, but I know I've done something when I'm sore. It's not silly. Yesterday was when I was walking around that gym and that actually

uh was the reason i wanted to do this show today and and like pinpointing the specific thing because i was walking around i was like man i'm gonna be sore from these dumbbell rdls like i've done them back-to-back weeks they're super heavy like 100 pound things all the way tap the ground lightly so it's super controlled at the bottom. I bet you are sore. Brutal, right? It's not like day one of squatting sore, but like 25 years later and you feel tight hamstrings when you go for a morning walk, you know you did the right thing. It's my favorite thing about it.

When you go on Instagram, there's like this infographic of like why you don't need to be sore. I just want to be like, yo, shut up. Being sore is radical. Like it's so cool. I love being sore because I know that I'm like, I'm doing the thing. I don't care what the science says in the lab.

I don't care that it's not 100% right. Like I have an objective thing that says, you definitely worked your hamstrings yesterday. It's more than muscular signaling. It's like saying, oh, it's time to grow now. We've created an environment that allows your hamstrings to grow. Screw that. I want my shit to wake up sore tomorrow.

I mean, dude, I mean, here's the disconnect too uh one thing i meant to say a while ago when talking about research it's like if you've never done the thing i'm not even saying you need to be a world champion but if you've never done the thing you never lift the weights and you've never coached athletes and then you do your research there is a disconnect there are things you don't know that you need to know when it comes to your results that you're seeing. And so, like, if there wasn't a disconnect, then no researcher in their right mind would have ever said steroids don't work

because they would be like, it obviously works. Something about our research right here is flawed. Before they go and print it and look like fools to the whole world so there's a big disconnect in there and um there's another way you know that's a big reason why i want to go back to schools because i i wanted to i wanted the answers my dang self you know i did not want to go to this pencil neck guy in a white coat you know telling me that steroids don't work or telling me that, you know, here's the way to get really big. What do you know, sir, about being big?

You know, you weigh 130. And so, like, I wish more people that love this thing, that have lived their whole life would, you know, get into the actual science. Like Andy Galvin. We need more Andy Galvins and Lane Nortons to do the actual science like like andy galvin we need more andy galvin's and lane norton's uh to to do the actual research because they get it and they know you know they know what they're talking about yeah i you know it's um it's it we haven't even dug into the nutrition part of it which i also think is like super i i i love the mentality of like the way it used to like eat food go get a big steak

when ed when ed cohen wakes up and he goes i didn't really think about nutrition too much but i knew that i felt a lot better eating a massive steak for breakfast every day i i really needed that you're like uh no nutritionist is telling you to eat like a big fatty steak in the morning like there's too many calories in a big fatty steak in the morning. There's too many calories in that, but the strongest man in the world wakes up and eats a big chunk of cow. I think there's something to it. I think we found some sort of secret to this thing of we need to be eating like a carnivore should eat. Yes. Yeah, I mean it works.

I know. That's the thing. Like, uh, but when you have to, when you have to like, uh, when you have to talk about things and, and like dive into all of the extra stuff,

you just go, come on. Like Ed Cohen ate steak for breakfast every day for 30 years. He probably still does. Like, are you really going to say that it's not, that's too much fat and a breakfast? We don't need that.

Like, we need to be counting our macros better. Like, there's just a piece of it where you go, if you're in the gym and you're hitting, you know, 20 to 30 sets of a specific muscle group and pushing yourself to failure all the time to be as strong as you possibly can, let's just get rid of this shit. Let's get rid of it

and go back to the day where uh we just went to the gym and tried to turn into savages for an hour right there should be more i wish people would get back to like more common sense you know if you see something that makes total sense at it but like if you're doing something it's working like ed kuhn why would anybody have ever changed anything he was doing? He was the best in the whole world for 20 years. I don't know if anyone has ever done that but him. So, like, to say he was wrong, you would be an idiot. It would be the same as the guys who said steroids don't work.

You're a fool, man. And so, like, somehow we need to get more research, you know, more anti-galapagos. And also those anti-galapagos talking to people like Ed Cohn to see, like, what are you guys doing, and then going back and forth and having – if anti-gabant can have somebody like Ed Cohn talking to him while he's doing research, I feel like now we're going to change the world, and we're really going to find out. Because what we're all trying to find out is, like,

we're all trying to get, at the end of the day, that little bitty edge. Coaches like me who are coaching athletes, advanced athletes, you're just wanting a legal edge to beat people in the world because we're all so close. We're all within a percent. So we're looking for that one little thing that gives me just a little bit of a boost. So that's what it is.

It's a strive to get that last 1%. That's all it is. Everything that has worked in the past, you know, will get people pretty much to their, almost to their genetic limitations. So, you know, you can watch all of Louis, I mean, all of, yeah, all of Louis Simmons stuff. You can watch all of Arnold's, all of Ed's, and all of their stuff.

We get you almost there. So I only think size has that last edge. And I think that for exactly what you're saying, you have to be so dialed in and testing and optimizing and testing and optimizing and having the conversations and all that because that is the top X percent. But if you're in the Anders Varner range, I'm just trying to be jacked for a long time and take my shirt off and feel good.

Go get as much volume. Work really hard in a short amount of time. Just play the game forever. That's exactly right. Play the game as long as you can. Don't stress out about all the individual things. Like let the feel be the thing that you care about. Like have 15 exercises that you do for your whole life that you love doing

and then find tiny little variations of them and do them really well. And be honest with yourself though. Be honest. We all know early when we're starting to warm up, we know good and well that today's not a good day or we know good and darn well it is and so like yeah be honest with yourself and don't lie to yourself and don't push through you know that suck don't push this one of the one of the old school training methods wouldn't old school training methods be to just push through the suck like

you just you just grind every day no matter what you like you don't you don't be a pussy that's like it's all depends on who you're talking about are you talking about a guy trying to be an elite athlete or are you talking about like andrews who says he wants to be super healthy and strong for a long long time so like yeah like if you're trying to be an elite athlete you're going to compete the world's championships yeah push through the suck you know unless it's really bad then you're probably overstrained. And then Brian Mann would tell you, all right, take that day off. But, like, yeah. But, like, it just depends on who you are.

So if you just want to go to the gym and get strong and, like, feel good, then, yeah, just do, like, as I was saying. Come in. It's like the greatest day of your life is when you decide that you're no longer Gen Pop and that you're elite because now all of a sudden you get to like separate yourself and you feel so cool about it. But the second best day of your life was when you go, Oh, Oh, I just do normal shit and I'm normal and all the normal tactics and all the normal exercises and all the normal stuff is what I've been doing for the

longest time. And I'm just going to go do the normal thing. I don't need to carry around all the ego with it. I'm just going to go be strong. Right. Except when Andrew goes to a gym and tries to be the strongest guy in the gym. That's why you have to feel like a savage for that little amount of time where you get to go to the gym and stand next to the guy that's a lot bigger than you and just move the same weight with much better form let me give you guys one more correlation because this will be cool for our audience so in that rsi score where it's a death jump like um uh ryan was obviously was number one, but there was a guy visiting who is a power, really good power listener who has been injured a bunch and a lot of

tendon injuries. And it was interesting because he was probably, his ability to absorb that landing was like zero and he's super strong, which tells him he's, you know, his muscles are super strong, but his tendons are non-existent so anybody listening news that might be a test i feel like um this is early but based on you know early measurements i would say that's the score you guys should all look into because if you have somebody who's really bad at that score you should probably be very careful with them and like you

know look into keith Barr's stuff and really strengthen their tendons because this guy, he pops tendons left and right. He's young. I'm like, there's a problem. Sure enough, when he did that depth jump, it was non-existent. Anyway. We got to get...

I got to write that email today. Have we had Brian Mann on this show yet? We should get both. I'm going to email both those dudes because Yeah, I got to write that email today. Have we had Brian Mann on this show yet? No. We should get both. I want to email both of those dudes because I got to email them. I'm about to have a strength clinic in December. I was going to invite both of them to talk.

So I'll do the two from one on them. I love it. Coach Travis Mash, where can the people find you? Mashley.com. You can go to – if you're an athlete, probably check me out at Mashley Performance on Instagram. If you are a coach, I feel like Twitter or LinkedIn. But Twitter is at Mashley. There it is.

Doug Larson. You can find me on Instagram, Douglas C. Larson. And if you want to see me arguing with people on Twitter, you're going to have to keep waiting because I don't do that. It's not my thing. Not my thing. I'll leave it up to Travis. That's my thing.

The best outro. Travis got it covered. Yeah. That's why we got Travis to do all the arguing while he's in the hot tub. I love Travis people. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore shrugged. Get over to Diesel Dad

Mentorship, where all the busy dads lose from 20 to 40 pounds by supporting natural testosterone production without drugs, doctors, and destructive diets. And if you walk into a Walmart, head over to the pharmacy. Coming in November, three products on the shelf. Look for My Face.

That's right. My Face is on 2,200 times three boxes across the country. All you need to do, go to the pharmacy, go to your local Walmart. If you do not see MyFace, that's because you went to the janky Walmart. You need to go to the cool Walmart right next door because we're in over half of them. So that's a 50-50 chance of you finding me on the shelves. In the performance nutrition section, three supplements. There's a pre-workout, a fat burner, and a nootropic. You finding me on the shelves in the performance nutrition section, three supplements.

There's a pre-workout, a fat burner and a nootropic. And, uh, we've got tons of information coming out for the November launch. I think we're actually going to have products in our hands, uh, in the early October, which is rad.

I'm going to be on all the pre-workouts. So, uh, get into Walmart friends. We'll see you guys next week.