Barbell Shrugged - Doesn’t Matter How Many Followers You Have — Real Chalk #101

Episode Date: November 12, 2019

If you’re into learning how to promote yourself on social media then this is the show for you. I’ll just leave it at that. There’s some serious value in this one.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/rc-followers ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/ barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

All right, guys, we're back. It's time for another episode of Real Chalk. Super excited for this one because Mr. Max Anderson is the husband of Nancy Anderson, who I had on about a year ago, maybe a little bit more. And since I met her, we've gone back and forth and shared ideas and done a lot of stuff in the space, particularly like with running ads

and promoting our programs. And she's just, she's been a great resource for me. And recently her husband has taken over kind of the management side of what she does. So he runs all of her ads. He, you know, helps, you know, put everything together and put it out there into the world and make it money. So I thought, you know, let's, let's have them on the podcast. Let's talk about it, but not only talk about what they're doing, but talk about what everybody else is doing. Talk a little bit of shit and chat back and forth about some of our favorite things that we like to do, some of the things that people are stressing out about that you don't need to stress about,

like how many followers do you have, how many likes do you have, all these different things that are going on right now. And I just think this is an insanely, insanely valuable episode. If you guys liked my last episode that was how to make money as a millennial, I think you guys are really going to like this one because now I'm bouncing ideas off of someone else who actually runs the ads and actually does a lot of these things. So this episode to me is worth a couple thousand dollars for you guys, in my opinion. This is some educational shit here. So you guys are really going to dig it. There's some good little knee

slapper jokes in there as well. And before we get into the show, the sponsors for this show, you guys have heard me talk many times about Organifi. And Organifi is making all the greens, the reds, and the golds, and all these fruits and vegetables and stuff that we don't really eat in our typical diet. And they're blending them all down into a powder and making it very accessible and easy for us to get in these days. So a lot of us are busy like myself. I used to love eating vegetables, man. Like I used to love having a huge bowl of vegetables, you know, and it would just make me feel full. And when you're someone like me who has a very particularly low carbohydrate diet, it's nice to have a huge bowl of veggies because it makes you feel full.

But I just like don't – when I'm in the store, I just like don't want to grab veggies. Like I just don't – I don't want them. Fruit always sounds good because it's like refreshing. And I live in California and it's hot. But those vegetables, fuck, they just don't sound fun. I don't feel like making a salad. I love – for those of you who follow me, I love my dude meals. I like making little wraps, little tacos, and just like very, very basic stuff. Meat cereal, which is basically just meat in a bowl and a spoon. So that's my style. You know, I'm a dude.

But you know, you can't be a dude forever. You got to like legitimately eat your vegetables. So their greens and reds and all that get me through for sure. I don't typically like the green flavor of almost any company out there. So I do like to mix different colors together. So I like mixing greens with reds. I like mixing the gold with some of the greens or the red with the gold or just mix all three of them together and just feel like a boss that day. No matter what you do, as long as you mix them together, it always tastes good. I don't think there's any combination that doesn't taste good. However, the greens, they do taste, for their company particularly, like I think they're probably the best greens I've tasted. I just don't ever really taste greens solely anymore. I like to mix all of them together. So yeah, and I've said

this a couple times too. If it's your first time listening to this particular part of the podcast, if you have some protein in the cabinet that you've just been sitting there forever because you don't like the way it tastes, it's like it's an older protein, or you're just like you're over it, you know? It's just like it's there. You don't want to throw it out because you wasted money on it. So if you throw the reds into any protein, it takes over the flavor of the protein, and it just tastes like reds.

So you can really just kind of recycle any of those things that you have that are just kind of laying around. You want to just finish it, just put some reds in it and it automatically just tastes like the reds. So you guys can get rid of those protein powders that are just sitting around. So that's our Organifi. You guys go to Organifi, O-R-G-A-N-I-F-Y.com slash shrugged, S-H-R-U-G-G-E-D. So Organifi slash shrugged. You guys get 20% off. You know, 20% off is a solid, solid discount. There's a, you know, the 10s and the 15s don't really get me too excited.

Once I hit the 20, that 2 is in front of me, I'm ready to go. You know, I'm ready to give it a try. So I hope you guys give it a try. Another discount code for you guys is on Jiman.com, which is my personal website, g-y-m-r-y-a-n.com. You guys can check out all of the e-books that I have on there. I have a CrossFit program on there. I have my sweat program on there, as well as my daily app, if that's something that you're interested in. The daily app now has the Daily D every single day, which is a daily dumbbell workout. I have dumbbell e-books you could buy.

I have all my challenges now. But what I think is really interesting, not interesting, but it's exciting for you guys is the carb cycle challenge that I was throwing for the last like year is now available as just an a la carte item. So you can just go buy it. It's not a challenge anymore, but it's not $100 anymore either. It's just $80 now. And you guys can start and end and use the information and do whatever you want with

it. You also get a free month of Chalk Online. You get access to the online group where I go in and do live Q&As. It's great. It's a really cool community and you get Excel spreadsheets to make all your numbers.

It's cool. And then now the new Earn Your Carbs Challenge is just solely a challenge. And that's going to be that way for quite a ways. And the next challenge won't be until January. So if you guys are looking forward to signing up for that, during Black Friday, I'm going to do like a pre-sign up where people can sign up for it. So there's all my, all my challenges. I've used code REALCHALK, R-E-A-L-C-H-A-L-K,

like my podcast, all capital letters, and you guys get discounts on everything in the store. Also, the Dark Horse program is in there with Mr. Diaz. He's doing a testing right now with a whole bunch of athletes testing out the program and it's doing amazingly well. You guys can follow DiazHP on Instagram and see all the stuff he's got going on and all the crazy like experiments and shit that they're doing. It's awesome. As far as other discounts go that I just really love and companies that I love, they're not sponsors of the show, but I just love them. So Whoop, they make the watch that monitors all of your workout progress and your sleep and all that. Code Fish, F-I-S-C-H. You guys get a big discount on all of their watches and products that they have. And then 7 Points CBD, my friend Mike. He's a member of my gym. Makes, in my opinion, probably some of the

most honest CBD out there. A lot of people are just trying to make a lot of money and he has a great story with his company and he works out in my gym every day. So I respect him for that. I also mountain bike with him. He's a great dude. So if you guys go to 7pointscbd.com, use code REALCHOCK, all capital letters, you guys get 20% off of CBD products. And I love the cream. If I had to recommend anything, I just like putting the cream on stuff. It definitely makes a difference. So, all right, without any further ado, let's get into the show. If you guys love it, make sure you tag me. Make sure you tag Max. And his Instagram is in there.

His Instagram is actually very funny. Wait for it. And, of course, guys, I will see you next week. I love you guys. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Let's go. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it's Monday for us. It is Tuesday for you guys.

And I'm sitting down. Actually, I'm standing up with Max Anderson. And really, actually, first and foremost, I'm in my new house, which I've never been inside yet with a podcast. I actually haven't even lived here yet. But we're here right now because the coffee shop outlet didn't work. And it's right next to my house. That's pretty dope so um we've we've established that having usb chargers are making women at least 10 times hornier so just just a side note study show that we talked about before the show started but a big

reason i wanted to have max on the air here is because his wife nancy anderson if you guys remember that podcast i had probably a year ago now. Yeah, that's about right. She was like one of the original OGs that I originally started talking to about just like promoting my programs and then bouncing ideas back and forth. So I think all of us at some point meet somebody who winds up just being like, you know, the deciding factor of whether or not they're going to do something. Someone tells you to do something and you do it, or, you know, you keep hearing it, keep hearing it, keep hearing it. And then someone else tells you, and then you do it.

AKA like if your girlfriend tells you to do something, you never do it. And then someone else, your buddy tells you and you're like, Oh, okay. That's a good idea. Your girlfriend freaks out. So, um, I was like already doing stuff, but then Nancy, I think was the first person that really pushed me over the edge to kind of like do more. Because she had a smaller following than I did at the time. And she was doing really great with her products. And I was like, wow, this is like so cool. Like I love knowing the information.

And she was the first person I had ever talked to who was even doing ads. Like I didn't understand that part of it. Yeah. And, you know, we just chatted back and forth. Because like I was doing online programming for my gym. She was doing ads for Like I didn't, I didn't understand that part of it. And you know, we just chatted back and forth because like I was doing online programming for my gym. She was doing ads for eBooks. And then we talked about how much we hated the space because everybody that we knew who was doing well, didn't actually know what they were talking about. And I was like, man, this is so, this is so just like frustrating because if you don't have the huge following, you can't get to

the people you want to get to. And the people who, you can't get to the people you want to get to. And the people who have the big following are not the people you want to take information from. But now, the other day, what really sparked the conversation I wanted to have with you was we were talking about running the ads and then, you know, how Instagram is becoming more of like a pay-to-play type of a space. Yeah. And another reason that Max is on the show is Max over the last two years has taken over kind of the marketing side of Nancy's stuff, correct? Yeah. So what does that look like?

So when you first started, you were like in real estate. Yeah. And then you start doing social media marketing. Sure. Yeah. Selling, you know, eBooks about pregnancy recovery. Yeah.

That was not part of my life uh, uh, life plan when I went to business school. Um, but yeah, so, so our probably about three years ago, kind of to set the stages that we were, I had switched into commercial real estate and I was getting my MBA and I was bartending on nights. It was just like, my life was like just madness. Cause I had switched to commercial real estate, a hundred percent commission making no money and not going to make any money like in the immediate future. I remember Nancy telling me about this.

Yeah. She was not thrilled. And it's like super iris, but back to the thing we kind of chatted before. It's like, you know, if you know you're an entrepreneur, you can't go back,

right. You got to burn your boats and, you know, kind of pull the plug and just grind. And yeah, so we sat in my office or my cubicle and I was like, hey, let's, you know, because she had three years ago,

she was like, hey, I think I'm going to, you know, start selling programs online because you can either raise your prices or train more people at once. Well, the big thing for her was she was one of the highest paid trainers at Barry's Bootcamp. For those of you who don't know, she was making like $200 a class.

Yeah. Which was nuts. And I remember that was like my whole conversation with her was she decided to tell me that she was going to quit her job and start doing just online stuff. And I was like, what? Yeah. Like how could you do that? Yeah. Like I was doing well, I was making good money on some stuff, but I was still keeping everything else. I still had personal clients. I still was coaching classes. Like, and then I remember she was like one of the first people to tell me like, dude, you are wasting so much time. And I was like, I know that I am, but I hadn't like heard it from somebody yet. And then like, it was, it's, it was very apparent to me. I was like, fuck, I need to start dropping

some of these things, even though like they're very important to me. Like my gym is very important to me, but I can't, there's no amount of, um, like work I can put into that gym. That's going to make me what I can make online. No. So then I was like, all right, well I'll coach less classes. I mean, the trainers need the, need the hours anyway. So it's benefiting both of us really. But it was hard because like, that was like, that was like my baby. Like the gym was like my thing. And it's almost like, no matter how much money you give me, if that's, if that's not working, even to this day, still like, I like to have nice shit in there. That's my home.

I walk in there and I want the barbells to be nice. I want the floor to be clean. It's always important to me. Even if the gym started losing money, I'd be like, I don't care. I still want all these things like this because when people think of Ryan Fisher, they think of my programs. They think of everything. I want them to walk into that gym and be like, this place is dope. It's a labor of love.

You can tell in the community you've created and just the setup. to think of everything. I want them to walk into that gym and be like, this place is dope. Well, it's a labor of love, you know? And you can tell in the community you've created and just the setup. And that's a tough... Oh yeah, you guys work out there now. Yeah,

well, I mean, I'm a huge, yeah. We've been, you and I have been friends for three years but we just recently now

started talking. I know you through Nancy very well. But no, I mean, that's a tough thing. Like, I remember when she was like, you were training her and I'm like, why is he like mean, that's a, that's a tough thing. Like I remember when she was like, you were training her and I'm like,

like, why is he like doing personal clients? Like, doesn't he have like more stuff to do that would generate a better impact per like hour worked. But that's a tough, that's a huge step to make because it's, it's one thing to be like a top trainer at a CrossFit gym or at a thing.

And it's another thing to like pull the plug or like start a side hustle. And like, cause you're going to not make a ton of money at first, most likely everything. Anytime you pull the plug on something is a temporary decline in everything. And you have to take those steps back to take a step forward. Right. They're so scary. It's, it's, it's, it's terrible. Dude, I was making great money, had full autonomy, had a newborn son at home, and I could do whatever I wanted. I had great insurance, everything. And I trashed it all to like cold call in 2018 for a living. And it's like the dumbest, craziest, stupid thing you'll hear.

But like if you have a vision, you know, that's kind of step one, right? You have a vision and you're willing to work hard and not give up you'll make it and like some people make it really quickly others takes a lot longer but like eventually that's it dude like you just got to you know keep grinding because you know think look at every step right because i will say there's one secret sauce to all this and it's personality oh yeah so like there's a lot of people who are like this is what i want to do and i'm like well every time i talk to you i literally want to shoot myself so like you need to figure out how to you know you need to figure out how to get yourself out there where you're like relatable to people you know you can't be monotone you can't not be excited you can't like

there's got to be something about you that's got a little extra character yeah and at least that will speed the process up there's people who like weird people too. Sure. But it's going to take them longer. For sure. Way longer. Well, and it's funny because you shoot a ton of content, dude. People think shooting content is easy.

It's not. It is for me now. Well, yeah, but you've been doing it for a while. But I was going to say it was very hard in the beginning. I remember people would be like, all right, just go ahead and say what you want to say. And I'm like, and then like 400 takes later, 3000 takes later. And it's like, dude, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, fuck, man, I just wanted to be so good.

And I'm fucking it up. It's a learned skill. Like, you know, it's people think like people who don't do it. Right. Well, look at your Instagram. Be like, oh, God, Ryan just like fucking picks his phone up and shoots it. And, you know, it's people think like people who don't do it, right? Well, look at your Instagram. Be like, oh, God, Ryan just like fucking picks his phone up and shoots it. And, you know, it's money. It's like, dude, you didn't start there.

No one starts there. And it's time consuming. Dude, we had to. You take a video. You add a swipe up. You add an emoji. You do this. You do that.

You got to link it. You got to do this. And it's like, yeah, maybe I made five little photos, but it took me like forever. And then I had to make a post for me and the gym and make something cool that people want to read. And then focus them, drive them somewhere. And it's like, it's a lot. Not only top of that, but back to the ad thing is like, it is a lot. And then you have to slate it right.

You have to be thinking about where is it going? Right. What's the objective of this campaign? What's the budget? What kind of allocation am I putting in? Like, dude, there's, there's just so much, like one of the things I think about when going forward is like the platforms will all be pay to play, right? Cause everyone, everything that starts out is fully organic, right? Cause they want to have the most users, the most activity, and then just kind

of grow as fast as they can without charging. It scares me because every time someone does the pay to play, the platform breaks down and a new platform happens. Yeah. And it, and I have such a hard time believing that something's going to outdo Instagram, especially because it's owned by Facebook and they're like the second richest. Oh, maybe the third. It's like Apple, Amazon, and then Facebook. Yeah. Um, and I want to say in that order and basically like I just feel like anytime someone threatens Facebook in any way they just buy them yeah you know so for sure I feel like Instagram has the ability to stay on top for a really long time at least yes but they are doing what they're doing right now is pretty shitty yeah it's and it's literally been like the last six months I feel

like is where it's really been hitting like if you're a new person in the space it's almost impossible to grow i don't know how you would i don't know how you would well so here's the the challenge i don't know how you would grow without doing the most like audacious like off the wall shit right like you know what i mean like there's this dude who's on my feet who's like just fucking swings he's like lifting and he's just like throwing stuff in the most like irresponsible way and it's like aesthetically pleasing but like he's not gonna write program it's in like sell like yeah shit that's like oh yeah here's how you throw a kettlebell fucking 100 feet in the air and do 10 swings and catch it like you know but it's gonna look pleasing but like he'll get five million followers and make

five dollars dude yeah it's that's the thing it's like so like and you see that play out like politically too right if you complain the loudest or you whatever it's like you get the most attention it's like okay great but like that doesn't get you or us anywhere um but yeah no it's you know especially not when you start out right and you're creating content you just the cost is just your time but now it's like going to be time and money and it's going to get super expensive. And, but to be honest, people that are already in the business, right. It's like, that's a, I look at it as a, as a headwind, right? Like if it's harder to entry enter right now, that means we'll face fewer competitors kind of longterm. Um, and it, you know, it'll, it'll deter people from starting now, which I don't think, you know, it's not impossible to start now. It's

just that the playbook is just kind of changing every month. Do you know what's interesting though, is a lot of people like to think that, you know, you know, there's going to be a new platform and like, don't put all your eggs in one basket and all this. And I agree with that. However, a lot of people don't realize that a lot of the sales that I'm making your wife, Nancy's making is coming through Facebook. Old school fucking Facebook. And like, I feel like we still haven't reached the peak of what the sales can be through Instagram yet, in my opinion. Nowhere close. Yeah.

Because there's, I think the peak is still in the Facebook realm, which is crazy. Yeah. Well, especially from a paid traffic perspective, right? And Facebook's been dead for how long to us? Like it's been dead for forever. Yeah. I haven't wanted to be on Facebook in years. So the next time something else comes out and you haven't wanted to be on Instagram for years, we're still going to make crazy money on Instagram.

Yeah, for sure. Because you look at, you know, it's always a balance, right? Because anytime, you know, anytime someone's, your content gets in front of someone and then you sell a product without having to pay there like pay to that placement they're losing money like air quotes like they're not you know so like their algorithms always trying to solve for how do they serve more ads and keep users on longer right because if it was 100 ads no one would ever go on but if it was zero percent ads everyone would go on and they would make no money so it's a constant balance that they're looking at and yeah yeah, I mean, Instagram, I think is still, I think it's still majority of discovery platform, which is like, so I'm a Facebook, I get on Facebook, but like I get on to see the ads.

Like I don't get on to see what somebody from my hometown, like name their dog or like, I don't give a fuck. Like, and, but I I'm served more ads. Right. And I'm okay with that. So I'll see it. And it's, you know, but for Facebook, when an ad comes in, it's more like, Oh, or sorry, an Instagram, it's kind of a little bit more out of place. Cause I'm like, you know, on IGTV, I'm like, you know, still using it to discover, but I'm, I'm, I'm with you a hundred, 10%, like, and you see that from an ad spend perspective too, cause the traffic's always cheaper on Facebook. So my questions for you would be whose ads do you like right now in the fitness space? When you look at them, you're like, those are good ads, man. That's, that's a tough question. I don't have a, I don't have a knee jerk answer. I would say it could be mine. Yeah.

Yours are pretty good. Um, I don't know, to me, I don't get excited about people's ads because I look at it from us and if it's marketing campaign, if there's anybody that you you see you're like, this guy's doing a good job? Well, here's the thing. I told you this the other day. I'll try to frame this in a way that didn't seem like you just threw me a beach ball and I just paid you a compliment back. Because when I see people's ads, I immediately go to their profile. And to use your term the other day, which I thought was really a good way of putting it is verify. Right.

Like so like every time I see an ad that's appealing, I'll click on it and realize, oh, they just spent a ton of money putting this thing in front of me. Like there's not much there there. But like if you think it more like an omni channel perspective where it's like you're running really competitive ads that almost look identical to what you're doing organically. That's what I think you, you need to be doing. Like the whole, our whole strategy for next year is kind of copying a little bit of what you're doing already is this, is the sense of like the stuff that I'm putting out from an organic standpoint is also getting a bunch of dollars put behind it because if it works organically, it'll also work from a paid perspective. So when you say you marketing something organically, it will just be an a paid perspective. So when you say you're marketing something organically,

will it just be an organic photo to technically just get more followers? Well, not more followers. See, I'm of the, I'm of the, maybe the minority opinion here where I think follower count is the most useless fucking metric you could possibly look at. So that was the next thing I wanted to get into. Okay, yeah. So common, like people are like freaking out that Instagram's

taking off likes and face whatever it is. Like, dude, so common, like people are like freaking out that Instagram's taken off likes and face, whatever it is like, Hey, do the fuck cares? Like, like if you, if you care about likes, you're either not making any money or you're really dumb or you're both like, and like, I get it. It's like, that's like what your scoreboard looks like. But if you like no business and no, like want to make money, right? Like that's never a reflection of how well you're doing. Um, so that's to me always been like the funny, like thing. It's like, Oh, like your follower counts. Who the fuck cares? Well, that was what we were talking about off air was basically the people that I know, the people that I would always assume are making the most money are like hurting. Yeah.

And like, they're about to go get a waitress job, you know? And then the people that I think that, you know, aren't just strong, like, like, you know, Ben the people that i think that you know aren't destroyed like like you know ben greenfield yeah ben greenfield dude i just found out from another friend that he's making like millions every year off of his like supplement brand and all this stuff he has like 130 000 followers maybe and he's weird like yeah you know like i'm not i mean i'm not a huge fan of him like i've met him he just like has a weird vibe like i would never think that he was somebody who's just murdering you know nor would i yeah and i'm just like wow like that that's you know that's just the numbers don't mean anything and i and i remember when nancy

was saying when she started making like five digits a month and it was she had less than 10 000 followers yeah dude i i tell her all time, I would put our revenue per follower against anyone in the industry. Not that that's a real metric, but like, that's like what people would think. Right. Cause what, to your point, you're like, oh, like this person's got, but the thing, but back to my original point, like they're going to take that from you. Right.

Right. They see people with big followings and they're like, great, let's serve them some fucking ads. Like, let's not like give them 90% reach. Like, so, you know, it, you wouldn't, the thing is like, people don't think that way. Cause it's the same as like, you look at email open rates, right. Are you, you know, but like email open rates have really fallen down. So you, people see people go to text message, right. They're always looking forward to like the move first into the new thing. And you can't, I mean,

the biggest thing you can learn right now is how to run ads on Facebook. And when I say Facebook, it's, it's, they are the same company, right? That's like the number one skill you can try to master, um, to get really good. Cause it's going to be the same stuff you're putting out organically. You're going to put traffic behind it just the same way you get much more, a better paid reach and better placement. If you boost posts and you can add more text, like knowing those, it's kind of like cheating on your taxes, right? Who do you want to hire as your cpa the guy who's going to bend the most rules or some like fucking turbo tax dipshit yeah like no you want the guy who knows the most

about how to you know skirt around the system and you also don't want to break the law right you want to like be you know you want to bend right on the line yeah exactly right life lives the best lived in the gray area i'm excited just thinking about being on the line. Makes you feel alive. Yeah. It's like a USP highlight on our phone. So what are some of the things that you've learned while taking over this new job for yourself, basically? Sure.

Or new heading for yourself? Yeah, man. So it's like when you went into it, actually, let's fast forward to when you started getting good at it. And then when you started getting like really good at it. So like when you were good, you thought X. And then as you got really good, you realized X. So like one of those things that you realize is obviously don't get too hung up on like followers and likes and all that. Totally. Totally.

And don't. Yeah. So that's the biggest thing, right? It's like to further that original point is like only compete against yourself like the comparison is the thief of joy like if you're comparing yourself to like someone's follower count someone's revenue like you're looking at the wrong thing and any time or money or energy you spend on that is just like you might as well just like light it on fire um because you know we're not competing like we don't compete against you right like? Like we're not looking at it. It's like when you do well, like Nancy, we're genuinely

like pump for you. Right. Like it's, but the, but the other point is like, what we've learned is that no one knows what they're talking about. Like present company included, like we have our experiences that shape our opinions, but like did when it like comes to experts on the platform, if it was super, super tough to advertise on the world's largest ad platforms, do you think that they would, they make it so you need to pay somebody $2,000 a month or five grand to like teach you or run your ads for you? It's insanely easy. I can't tell you how many people, the, our biggest loss these past like probably 18 months are from people that I hired because I was too busy to learn something or do something that I thought I could outsource is the biggest mistake. Like whether it's page building, whether it's

coding, whether it's, uh, our CRM CRM, building landing pages, running advertisements, no one's going to know you. No one knows your business better than you. And I'm not saying you need to become an expert and be like God's gift to paid advertising. But when you learn a little bit more about it, you'll do two things really well. One, you could hire people much better and you can hold them accountable much better. Like it's, it's insanely easy to advertise and put your money, like anyone with a credit card right now can open up an ad account and put some traffic behind whatever they want to. Um, but you know, I think where it gets tricky is when, I mean, there's probably times where I have 50 to a hundred ads going and I'm trying

to figure out which one is the best, which wording the best which photo is the best which you know every single little piece is the best and like that's like something that like i don't ever want to have to deal with yeah that's why i fucking i mean i have my my whole little side company now so it's like i don't have to i don't have to worry about spending too much on it but basically like that it could be a lot of work. Like it is, it's a ton of work. It's a full time job. Oh, it may or may not be hard, but it's,

it's full time. No, it is. And well, to do it properly, it needs to be full time. Right. Like,

and that's the thing is you look at like it, but the thing is, and I've realized it's not from like a cost saving perspective, like, because your time is the, is the CEO of your company. Your time is the most valuable. Right.

So, but, but the thing is, if you're looking in terms of like, how do you grow something longterm, like those skillsets and those traits are going to become even easier to learn because that's every, everything that Facebook, they want to make it easier for you to just like you're, when you're selling your programs, you're like, how do I make this as easy as possible? Like I'm going to give away a bunch of free content, get hooked and then here's my here's my

number one thing every time i do something i'm like how do i just want this to be easier that's what dude meals are all about yes but like everyone's thinking that way right it's all about user experience right because then you can then if it's super easy you'll get people who are kind of on the fence and they're like oh yeah wow this wow, this is pretty easy. Let me give this a try. Um, but yeah, dude, I mean, I think it's, you're such a, you've been such a master at organic and just natural stuff and you're super marketable that like that is, so here's where you run into a lot where people get a lot of bad, like idea of like the paid marketing is if you don't have that, you just can't like, like buy your way into being huge. You know what I mean?

You can't be this dipshit who posts no content organically and be like, hey, I'm rich, dude. I'm going to shell out 10 Gs here and see what I can do. No. That's not going to work. Because people want to verify. It's just like one avenue. It's not like an ATM where you're going to go and put your card in and get money back. You know, it's a, it's a skill, right? But you look at Google, you look at, you know, text messaging. I know you hammer your email list. Like, dude, you have to hit people on

all fronts. It's not just like a, you know, Hey, I'm going to post a bunch and maybe people like my stuff. It's a, it's a full-time job. Like, and you can't be like the one messing around with it. Like, Oh, like I'm going to go in here and create all these ads like no dude understand it hire someone who's competent and you know crank it i always wonder too like if if if we're all just like especially like you and me and nancy like if we're all just like in this bubble that like people just don't understand like if we're just in such a small because like i can't imagine coming out of college right now and just being like i want to go be a nurse and make 70, 80K in a year. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Or, you know, even like I remember if you told me I was going to make $200,000 like at any job, like whatever. I mean, like I'd be like, what? Like just craziness. But, like, I mean, dude, I have, like, 16-year-old girls that I know that are making, like, you know, five figures in a month, six figures in a month. You know, and it's like there's no job that's going to do that for you. No. No, not even close. It's hard to explain.

And it's really all because of what we're talking about right now. Yeah. No, it is. It's figuring it out and, you know, figuring out what your niche is. And it's still hard, even all everybody thinks that I have it all figured out. And like, I feel like I do at in on some level, but who I am as a person and what I show on my Instagram is like, I'm still not a hundred percent satisfied on it.

It's like, yes, I love showing new ways to work out high intensity interval, bodybuilding, bodybuilding. You know, I love talking about earning your carbs and making dieting easy and all that stuff. But I also love to do cool shit. I love going surfing, and I want to post that, and I want to post all this adventure stuff, but people don't really care. And it's like, but I want to post it. But I think even though I don't have a huge following, the numbers that I'm able to generate,

I think is because I'm a genuine person. Yeah. And I think people kind of care about that stuff. Yeah. And I mean I think that as much as I want to just go 1,000% just the fitness route. I'm like, all right, these are just my before and after photos. These are just the workouts that I do. And here's this and here's that.

It just doesn't seem fun to me. Yeah. Even though I feel like it might be more beneficial. Yeah. But at the same time, I've, I'm starting to feel like the number that you have in followers really doesn't mean anything.

And this is something that I'm like, I'm trying, it's very hard for me to like rationalize my brain. I'm like, right. It doesn't matter. It's like, are you sure?

Like even to myself, I'm like looking in the mirror, like, are you sure? It's easy for me to say, it's easy for me to get on here and be like, fuck your follower count. I don't have a following. Right.

And like you do. And like, like, so it's, it's going to seem easy for you to be the face of it. Right. But like that comes with a whole host of other stressors, like being the face of the machine that people don't really understand either. Right. Cause like, then it becomes you, the business is like run through you. If you have a bad day, sales might be down or whatever it is. Like, so then you become like, and it's hard to kind of separate that because like I get on stuff and it's, it's hard not to like pay more attention to the stuff that you're involved in. Right. Like if you see a picture of myself and like, Oh, how

many likes did this thing get compared to like my kids or like whatever it is, but it's a, it's a human, it's a totally a human element, but it's, it's, you know, same as like eating sugar. Right. Like it's, you know, it's easy to do the things that are like not really great for you. Right. So when you're running these ads yourself and you have a thousand followers and you put a thousand dollars behind an ad that day and let's say it reaches a million people. If you have a million followers and you put a thousand dollars behind an ad that day yeah and let's say it reaches a million people if you have a million followers and you put a thousand dollars behind that ad what is that reaching i would reach the same amount they they're i mean to my knowledge they're not going to give you preferential treatment based off how many followers you had

because you're setting up an audience right so of like everything you're setting you know you're looking at so you're hitting your audience plus the extra audience that you paid for. No, you're not hitting your audience. So, so if you're looking, if you're thinking, but I mean like if you do the post, oh, you're hitting, oh, well hold on. Yeah. The ads don't actually go on your page anyway. So, well, so if you're talking about a boosted post, so two things to talk about, I'm trying to give people the knowledge that it doesn't matter how many you have. Correct. Because you're going to reach the same.

And I'm just trying to figure out how we're going to say that. So you're going to say it this way. So to your point about, this is something we talk about all the time. So when I talk about something organic, the best thing about that is it's organic. It's you. If you think of it, marketing in like an earned paid owned, like channel, right? Those are the three kind of big categories that people like to, to, you know, channel

things in the problem with your organic thing is it's the most, the great thing is it's super engaging. It's like, Ryan, this is his account. He can do whatever he wants. No one can kind of touch him. It's just him being him, right? There's no segmentation. So like somebody who's like super into fitness or super into nutrition or whatever it is, gets the same thing. And someone who's super into nutrition

be like, I don't fucking care how much weight he's lifting. Like that, that I don't, I want like, what's he eating? Right. And people would be like, ah, he's always posting about his meals. Like I just want to see him work out, like whatever it is. But you can do that from a paid marketing standpoint. So the bad thing is you have to pay for it. The second is you can get super, super granular in what you target for, right? What their age is, gender, income, all these other things, right? So you're taking a message and we think of things in funnels, right? So if somebody is, you know, I talk all the time about a customer journey, right? If someone's scrolling through Facebook, they're seeing something, what is going to get their attention, right? And then what, well, first start with a product, right? What product are you selling? Is it a subscription? Is an ebook? Is it lifting? Is

it nutrition? Right? And then you start from there and you say, okay, well, you know, how are they, how are they finding me? Is it through a podcast? Is it through a video view ad? Is it through a traffic ad lead form, right? There's all these tools that you can use that are like, I think of everything in interest generation and conversion, right? That's the only thing. And in the conversion side with your, anybody's platform organic, that's always bottom funnel stuff, man. Those people are warm. They're invested in you. They're following what you're eating for lunch or what you're doing all day, right? Those people don't need to see an ad, right? They, they do see ads ads but like they don't need right you can get on your email list and blast a new product out and people would buy

it um but like how are they finding because if you can grow and you can scale which is kind of thing i think where are both of our businesses are right now we're trying to like scale our existing operations um is you know that then that requires a journey right because like they'll just see you and they'll be like oh look at this meat dude. Like this guy has got to be a dipshit. No one can look like this and be, and know what he's talking about. But then you're like, okay, well, do I serve that person a testimonial page? Right. So they don't need to hear it from me. What if they want to hear it from my past, like a hundred best, you know, before and afters. Right. And then it's like, how do you craft that? Um, but yeah, it's, it's dude, it's, it's the wild West, man. It is,

it is the wild West. No one knows anything, not because they it's, it's dude, it's, it's the wild West, man. It is, it is the wild West. No one knows anything, not because they're dumb because it's changing. Like you mentioned with Instagram and what specifically are you kind of talking about though, I guess with you just talking about organic reach, kind of taking a hit or like, how do you think it's changed? Yeah. Like, I just feel like, you know, my followers have taken like a dead stop recently. Yeah, for sure. And it's like, I've also had this thing happen to me once before. And I feel like my followers have taken a dead stop recently. Yeah, for sure. And it's like I've also had this thing happen to me once before, and I feel like it might be happening a little bit right now, unless it's more of the ad thing where you get shadow banned.

Oh, dude. Have you heard of this? Have I heard of it, dude? Dude, I got it so bad one time. I was literally growing like 500 followers a day for a while. It was nuts. And I was like, wow, this is insane. And then all of a sudden, just like, boom, my engagement got stripped in half, dude.

Like a post that would get at the time when this is happening to me, I was getting like four or 5,000 likes. It went down to like one, maybe two. And then all of a sudden, like my views on videos were like i was like i was like should i take this down and post it later like this is horrible like what is happening and then my story views everything was just like getting hammered yeah and then i was actually like losing followers yeah and i was frozen dude this happened this was this was going on for like five months i was like dude i don't know what to do.

This is insane. Is your ad account frozen? Or did that stop? Well, I was looking into what to do, and they were like, you need to switch back to a personal account. Don't post anything for a week. Stop using hashtags. All these different things. And I was like, what the fuck?

Dude, I went back and deleted every hashtag off every photo of all all time i switched accounts i did this i did that i did so many things and none of it none of it worked just one day it just went away yeah and someone told me to just write them a message on on on the contact oh yeah and just keep sending it like a thousand times just keep just murdering them with messages just copy paste send copy paste send copy paste send and i kept doing that like every day and once i started doing that it actually went away fairly quick oh yeah that's so funny so i did that again like yesterday but it's it's i mean it's that's we deal with every everything you mentioned we've we struggle and deal with too it's funny uh but so but funny. But did you notice like – I mean I'm guessing sales didn't go down though.

Sales didn't really go down. Yeah, so I'm guessing people in your DMs, people were still like hitting you up. I'm guessing the same rate. So it's – no one sees your sales, right? No one sees how many people share your posts, how many people save it, right? They see what led the likes and the views. And you know, it's, it's interesting, you know, it's, it's an outward measure that means nothing. Like you're like, you're high, right. Right. The most important measurement on someone's body is their heart, right? Like,

like figuratively, not the little, right. But you can't measure that shit. Like, but like, that's the most important thing. Right. And the same thing with all this other stuff, like revenue, it's like, so it is, it's, it's funny, but yeah, but you got to think about this way. They're not in the business of, of letting you reach your followers. Like they're not like you're not their customer. Like, I mean, yeah, if you are, if you spend ads, but like, you're not spending enough money that like, right. It's, it's a, there's a bunch of small to medium and large-sized businesses. They're a huge ad giant, and they will be for a very long time. I look at it this way.

I think you do two stages, which you have an algorithm hacking, quote-unquote, for lack of a better term, or growth hacking, where it's like, hey, these are the things that I'm going to talk about. For us, it's pregnancy fitness. No one's really focusing on that, right? You know, postpartum recovery, right? These are areas that we know really, really, really well and that we can post that we're not going to, like on the before and after space, you, us, every single trainer, intelligent or, you know, an idiot

has before and afters, right? They don't let you market them though. No, they don't, which is a huge issue, right? They don't let us't let us they don't let we get shut down so we had a pre-order ad account was turned off probably five times in like six months because we had shots of nancy in a sports brawl working out like think about that like and you got to realize machines are making these decisions like because like we'd write them be like hey like these are like provocative whatever i'm like dude she's like holding our two-year-old son talking about like you know umbilical hernias like right there's like we're not like trying to like skirt around the system here um like oh my god dude our ads got turned off yesterday because we put make running

great again because they were political they get get shut down and I'm like, oh, what the fuck? This thing's been running for like three months. Like it was like one of our best performing ads. And I go in to look at it and it's like, Hey, this is a special ad category. It's a political ad. You need to flag it as a political ad. I'm like, do you fucking kid? It says make running great again. What are you talking about? But then you look at like, there's just i don't know what other way to describe it other than it's the wild west so you can learn it and understand it and not like use it as a crutch or like say i'm not going to run any organic stuff

but it will be a pay-to-play platform for the foreseeable future and forever because they're an advertising company they're not a hey let's let ryan make this whole following for free company so he gets really big and makes a bunch of money not on our like if you if you look five years down the road you're gonna have your your credit card probably not even five years you're gonna have your credit card linked to your instagram account you'll be able to buy things with one click so like oh those are cool those are cool shoes one button like that that will be the future like yeah you know and then you know on the flip side with one click. So like, oh, those are cool. Those are cool shoes. Boop. One button. Like that will be the future. Like, you know,

and then, you know, on the flip side, with the Facebook creators and all this AR stuff that I kind of just listen to and learn to, like they'll create creator accounts, right?

So then you'll be able to have other people run ads on your account and like, you know, generate another revenue stream. So it'll change a lot. I mean, it changes

every week, right? We get stuff turned off that didn't get turned off and there's no rhyme or reason to it. And they're never going to give us an explanation, right? Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, they're just going to do it. Actually, they are getting better with explanations telling you why

they turn stuff off, but like a year ago or two years ago they'd just turn it off and be like, hey, the terms of service i'm like okay let me look at this 20 page document that says a million different things and figure out why you turn this particular ad off like so when someone has a million followers for instance the only difference between that person with a million followers and a person with 10,000 followers is they're organic, without paying for ads, what they're able to generate in income. Yeah. But if they start using ads and the 10,000 person and the million dollar person, million follower person, they both spend the same amount of money on ads, they're still getting the same amount of rates. Same.

It's the great equalizer. And that's why people are freaking out about organic traffic going down. It's because most people, unlike you, don't have a business behind it. They're trading clicks. You look at the network of bloggers or influencers, right? I can't tell anymore who has real followers. I'm just like, I'll look at somebody with a million, and they have 10,000 likes on their post. And I'm like, well, sometimes I get 10,000, so there's no way that they really have a million.

And then I see people who have like 7 million, and they have like 20,000 likes on their posts and I'm like, well, sometimes I get 10,000. So there's no way that they really have a million. And then I see people who have like 7 million and they have like 20,000 and I'm like, wait, are like 5 million of those fake? Or is there, is there reaches that far down? Like is Instagram doing this? Like what the fuck is happening? This was, this was our secret sauce to creating a like, so in 2000, so it was 2019 this year. So 2017 was our first year of like an actual online business. We spent $0 on like traditional paid advertising and a hundred percent of our marketing budget was spent on influencers. Like, and it crushed, like absolutely crushed, but it was super volatile. Like, like, so some people you thought were like super engaging and have, you know, say fake followers

or like just like people like their stuff and like they had no rapport with their audience, right? Like would do terrible. And they'd be just as expensive as people that would have, you know, or not, like the more expensive have no engagement, but people who are smaller, like on the micro side would fucking crush. And Nancy was like so good at like picking out who's who and like because they're all priced the same they'll have

like agents are like oh well they have 100 000 followers like it's five grand for a post it's like why are you coming up with that number like this makes no sense yeah um and like the same people who would do like you pay like because we paid a bunch of youtuber i mean we we didn't have we didn't you just ask them to shout you guys out or something. Yeah. We'd be like, Hey, like, like, you know, Hey, do you like our people that always did best were the people that actually did the programs. Um, but we just got burned a lot. And you know, people are just, they're, they're, they're capitalizing on the moment in time, right? They're not creating something that's going to be around for a long time, which is, you know, what I think would make us different is like,

like we look at those people who were like the flash in the pan who are crushing it like a year or two ago. And we're like, Oh man, like I thought you were doing a little bit better. Like you're like one algorithm change away from like going back and getting a job. Like seriously, like one algorithm change. It's kind of funny to think of it that way, but it's serious. It's so true, but it's so true. And that when they they kind of panic, and that's why you saw everybody, you know, think about it this way. Instagram is moving you like a puppet, right? Because like, what happens? Like they launch stories and then they crush your grid reach. So everyone goes to stories, right? Like, it's not like they didn't like, oh, we didn't see this happening. Like a lot of smart people work there. You know, They're really good at what they do because they have all this data and they pull all the strings.

Yeah. How important do you think stories are on Instagram? Super important. I feel like my stories murder my posts. Yeah. But that's where the real person is too. It is. And the challenging part from a content perspective

is that stories take a lot of time and they only live for 24 hours so like it's a huge like i nancy's all the time like she's always in her stories and it's like a full-time job putting up stories to like for something that only lasts that long and then when that like you know it's different than a grid post if you get a grid post and put it up and it like bombs you're like fuck it it's like you know it's up didn't take that much time post picture caption but if you like work really hard on your stories and they bomb you're like damn it like they're only alive for this short window like i feel like it just comes down to if people feel like watching your story that day totally because i'll have days where i'll have double the numbers just and i'll have great shit in there on

the days it's half but it's like i think people just, it was Saturday and they had shit to do and they didn't see it. And I'm like, I get so bummed. And stories are an investment. You know what I mean? Like I say this all the time. I'll like look at, cause I'll follow. That's like a day trading investment.

It's really volatile. Huge dude. It is. Because you think about it, it's like, I'm like, I like, I like, you know, say you get on and there's like 20 lines up top and I'm like damn dude i'm gonna have to really like ryan to like spend this next two minutes i get turned off and i have no idea what you're talking about right like there's not like a you know there's almost needs to be like an espn uh like uh what's it part of the interruption where it's like what is he talking about let me flip to the point where like i know it's like i

give a shit and like i going to read that story. My friend's in Nepal right now hiking all these mountains. And I really want to just like – I wish I was there type of deal. It's like a little bit of FOMO and I'm just looking at it. And she has like literally a hundred dots. And I'm still like – I'm in it enough to where I might want to watch them. But even still, it goes on and I'm like, okay, next, next, next, next, next. It's like, bro, you want to be here. Watch the fucking videos. And I might want to watch them, but even still it goes on and I'm like, okay, next, next, next, next, next. It's like, bro, you want to be here, watch the fucking videos. And I still can't watch. Yeah. You're still, I told my wife, I'm like, Nancy, you're the wife,

the mother of my kids. I don't want to watch like, like this is a big investment for me for my day. Like, and which is why it's funny. Cause I think about podcasting, right? Like you got to really enjoy someone's content to listen to an hour, two hours, three hours of uninterrupted like stuff. Like it's a, you know, there's always, everything's a dual edged sword, right? Stories most engaging, but it's like, ah, it's a commitment, dude. I can just scroll through your feed as long or as short as I want. Um, which is why I try to get like 10 videos for the day. Yeah. That's, that's smart. If it's, if it's more, I more i i do i think of myself on the other end and i'm like i don't think i'd watch it yeah i wouldn't it doesn't

matter how cool it is i wouldn't like watch it because it's all it's all the unknown right but you do great i mean they think you got to have multiple you have to turn it into a machine and you've done that beautifully because you've got the gym and you've got your life and you've got the paid with your programs and it's it's a's a, we look at that as like, that's a, that's one area not having a studio or not having a content kitchen, if you will. Um, cause a lot of people are just kind of, you know, them, uh, you know, shooting with their hand or like following their lives. And it's like, that's cool. But like, you know, it looks a little bit lonely, like a certain extent, right. You know, it's like, you know, cause, and then we talked about this the other day. It's like, it's like nothing will

like your, your gym will never go out of like a gyms will never go out of business. Like we like to like have these headlines of like, Oh, like we're just going to shop online forever. And like, or in like never get out of our underwear. And it's like, dude, you like what? Like the sense of community, like didn't get squashed by Amazon being better at selling stuff than your neighborhood store. Like we still want to get out and engage with individuals on like a personal level. That's not, we just happen to do it online more than it's never been something we've done in the past. Um, and that's a really cool thing.

Like think about how many lives you've touched of people that you've never – will never meet, right? That's a – what an amazing tool. Like it's just – it's crazy. I get messages every day. I just posted one the other day about the guy who got married. It's on my page. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, and he's like took his shirt off like on his wedding day.

And I was like, dude, this is fucking he's like dude i literally could not have done this without you and i was like oh my god this is so cool so dude we i get those all the time because we're not to me obviously but to nancy like you know talking about how you've changed this person's life through the internet right like what what did it like and that's why i think that people like the older generation like doesn't under it's hard to explain to someone. Because I'll talk to my parents, for example, and they had a restaurant. And it's like, oh, well, you get on social media.

And it's like, well, I don't know what to post. I'm like, no, no, no. It doesn't matter what you post. It's like running an ad, like driving a coupon to come into the store. No one's going to follow you because you're slinging great cheesesteaks all day. You know what I mean? Like you, but when they see the platform, I still believe that Facebook's the smallest or sorry, um, is the best kept secret in terms of small, like for small businesses, because people see it, they consume it. The way you run ads from a paid

perspective is different than you would consume it. The goals are different. The strategy is different. You know, all this other stuff, like it's just the same as like putting an ad in the paper, except no one reads papers. Everyone reads Facebook or Instagram. Um, but you know, people weren't, you know, they didn't grow up with it. Right. Like, you know, I look at, I, it cracks me up. And I was like, we spent, you know, called a, you know, a quarter million dollars last year on the same platform that I used to poke girls in my freshman dorm in 2007. That's great. That's 12 years later.

And it's an ad giant. Where is it going to be in the next 12 years, the next five years? I made this point the other day. We're talking about Black Friday, right? And that's a huge – I have dreams about it every night that I forgot to do something, we're talking about like a black Friday, right? And that's like a huge, you know, I, I'm like, I like have dreams about it. Like every night that I forgot to do something and we're like still three weeks away. But it's like, if you look at pressing your foot on the gas and how cheap traffic is now through like a five-year window, cause there's only going to be more competition. Like, right. There's only going to be more people entering

the space with more money, more competition, whatever it is. Right now, it's like a land grab. I know I keep saying this. It's like the Wild West, dude. It's like you're mining for gold. That's what I was going to say was what's your opinion on spending just outrageous amounts of money? Does it really matter? Because I've talked to people that are saying, you know, you could spend, like me, for instance,

I'm spending typically between, I think like $7,000 to $10,000 a month. Yeah. $6,000 to $10,000 a month. Just on my personal ads. But let's just say I bumped it up to $50,000 a month. Am I going to exponentially increase my return or is the ratio going to, because like I've been told that my ratio will be the same. So like, what's the point of spending it? But I think I'm getting a bigger reach, but then how long can I get that reach for? Like,

that's kind of like, those are some of my questions for you, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, it does. So I would think of it in terms of so there's there is a period of diminishing returns right so like the less because there's there's more volatility i have some friends spending two to three thousand dollars a day yeah and that's that's a so what that but they get a two to one return yeah but so that number is really indicative or really so here's where i get so if you i live in like the internet marketing guru like freaking i don't know why i just get targeted for every single digital marketing course or ad or whatever but so like people always like they're like oh like like i just spent fifty

thousand dollars or scaled a hundred grand spend profitably i'm like what the fuck does that mean like that literally means nothing yeah because like you can make a hundred and thousand dollars and $1 and that would be profitable. Like, right. Like it's, it's all near just like to the likes thing. It's like, great. Like that's cool. But like, there's more to the story than just your, like your return on ad spend. Right. So we always kind of target like a 20 to 35% total cost of sale. Right? So I'm looking at, you know, if I can bring leads in, right? So you're looking at building the top of funnel and that you're not looking at sales because you're saying, okay, how many people are seeing Ryan Fisher's post or Ryan Fisher's workout for the first time, right?

And how expensive is it to put that image, to put that video, to put that podcast, whatever it is, how, what's the price it takes to put in front of that person, right? Cause that's top of funnel, right? Cost per engagement, cost per video view, cost per click, right? Boom. And then you're going to take that person. And it's always a, it's always like a one, two punch, right? Cause it's always interest generation and conversion. So if you're filling the top of the funnel and you're saying, okay, what am I pitching to these people from a conversion standpoint? Like, what am I trying to get them to look at next? And it could be like, hey, look at this video workout and then download this and then you opt in, right?

And then you're saying, okay, then I get the free offer and then I get a text message that gives me this discount promo code. Like what am I filling that up with? And then you measure. I'm just a huge – I'm a huge metrics guy. Cause I think like, you know, kind of like Matt, right. What gets measured gets managed. And if you're not, if you're measuring the wrong things or not measuring at all, you have no clue why you're doing well or poorly or what's doing well or poorly. So, you know, from, from that standpoint, it's like looking in terms of like, you know, you, you, it's like a binary code, right? So I'm going to say, I'm going to, you know, market, get you in the top of funnel for X. And then I'm going to convert you through conversion ads for Y, but it doesn't like, so people are like, Oh, I'm spending 20 grand.

I'm like, all right, cool. Like what's your return on ad spend? What's your cost per new view? Like, what are these things that like would, would make your, like would point to it being sustainable, right? Cause you're putting in three grand a day. Great dude. That's like a, what's like a, it's like a million dollars a year. Yeah. Like, so, so if you do a million dollars a year in ads and your company top line does 1.5, you're spending 65% roughly of your dollars on paid advertising. Like what? Like, like really? Like, so like, so like right so you know that's how people go from having businesses to like and right the algorithm changes right so traffic will get more expensive right there i don't i don't understand what world we would live in where it would get cheaper

so as you as it creeps from like 65 to 70 to 80 like you're fucked that you you you'll be out of a job like i look at that i look at you be out of a job. Like I look at that and I look at, you have a high paying job. If somebody told me like that was their setup, I'd be like, wow, that's, that's cool dude.

Like I would save a lot of that money if I were you and I would figure out how do I raise the average order value? Right. We talk about like high ticket a little bit. You can either sell more of your existing products or you can sell products at higher price points. It's really it. It's not a very complicated equation, but, but yeah, you wouldn't experience answer your question. You wouldn't experience this probably the same.

If you did, if you experience better return on ad spend, if you like tripled your budget, like you should be spending even more than that. Um, but the thing is like, dude, I think it's a, I think it's a land grab right now. Like, I think if you've got something that works, now is the time to put your foot on the gas because a lot of people don't have something that works or aren't going to get in because it's too difficult right now. Yeah, it is hard. It's super hard because it takes so much – people don't see you six years ago. They don't see you three years ago. They don't see all the work that it took to get to this point.

They just see like, oh, dude ryan's got a sick pad man like i know that really must be nice like i literally just am like so bummed on that i'm like fuck i just like i wish there was like a one minute instagram video that i could just put out that like summarize my whole life and you're like oh damn he is dope yeah and then it's like but it's like i probably lose you in 10 seconds anyway you know what i mean yeah well the truth is hard to sell yeah like you know what i mean? Yeah. Well, the truth is hard to sell. Like, you know what I mean? Like it, but what was it? Instagram is like literally the sex you want to have every day. You want it to just be like, it is terrible. I say this all the time. I feel terrible for girls or for women. Like, because

you know, it's just, it's like soft core porn. It's like, there's just so much out there and it's like, Oh wow. Like, and you got guys like Dan Bilzer, those guys, it's like there's just so much out there and it's like oh wow like and you got guys like dan bilzer those guys it's like they're like live their lives on instagram it's like dude i would just be if you're 18 year old guy like you just like it's i don't i don't know i see the chicks naked now and i'm like all right cool yeah like back in the day i'd be like oh my god titties you know now it's like you'd have to get it's like dude i could find some titties right now dude yeah you used to have to go like plan with your buddies. There was one kid. One of your four friends found a hustler to death.

You had to plan six months from now. We're going to meet up and go in the woods. Like the one day we don't have school to like get a few peeks. Seriously. Like that's the amount of planning. You had to like, I'm going to take the Space Jam DVD cover and put it on there. I remember just getting all ready for dial-up internet to jerk off on some website. I'm like, all right, as soon as this shit goes through, I'm going to fucking beat my dick like it owes me money. You're like putting a big comforter over your modem to keep the dial-up sound down.

Kids don't understand, man. As soon as it turned on, it froze. I was like, fuck. Mom's like, what are you doing? We have dinner. I'm like, Mom, I'll be fucking right out. Leave me alone. In the middle of something.

I'm not hungry anymore. Where's my Victoria's Secret magazine? I don't know. Oh, the Sports Illustrated Swim Suit Edition, dude. Shit. But it's true, right? You look all these things at our fingertips. I mean, that's what we look at yourself and dude, the way you look breaks the algorithm because people want to look like you. Like that's the, you're, and I always said the best thing about CrossFit is like, people want to look like the guys who play, compete in the games. Right. And like when

I worked at Under Armour, like people wanted to look like none of our consumers people who like bought 90 of our stuff didn't look anything like the athletes that i know i remember used to walk in the under armor store and i'd see like the black mannequins and it's like eric yeah biggie yeah it's like giant and i was like yeah i'm gonna buy that i'm gonna look just like that and then like i put it on, I'd be like, I don't fucking like this shit. You know, like, it don't look the same.

But no, it's, it's such a dude. Everyone loves to be aspirational. So if you can be aspirational like you, like Nancy is like you are, and also back it up, that's the recipe for success,

dude. I don't really know that many people that are actually like, they look really good currently maybe they did at some point and they're selling shit but like they look good currently and sell a bunch of stuff it is actually it's more rare than i ever really thought about like when we talk about it now i'm like yeah i don't know that many people that actually look that good right now yep the greg o'gallagher guy that we've that we've and i've had him on my I mean, my opinion with him is really that I feel like a lot of his stuff after talking to him. And he's cool.

I don't have anything negative to say about him. I just feel like there's a lot more behind his stuff that people don't see. Like I feel like people are really helping him like with a lot of his stuff. Yeah. In terms of like how it's written, how it's marketed. I feel like a lot of it's not really him. Yeah. Which is fine like that's part of his business thing is like maybe he hires people to help him with marketing because he's not super great at it on his own yeah um but yeah like truly or like truly

fucking real human beings who really look good who aren't like fucking drugged out to the gills a lot of people look at me and they're like he's probably like got drugs and i'm like well you meet me in person i'm not nearly as big as i look in the photos but yeah i am i am that lean i do yeah pretty good yeah um but i'm you know i'm not i don't look anything like the guy that's on drugs like he's exponentially more jacked and ripped than i am yeah well i think i always laugh because like i said i always started following you more i'm you know you tell my wife and I started following you more recently. But my favorite picture of you is the you with the – like I challenge anyone who thinks you're on drugs to look at that picture of you. It's a throwback picture of you in like a police outfit or something. Oh, yeah.

Like how old are you in that picture? 17, 18. I'm 210 times. You're qu quads you're thicker like you know and like your quads are just massive and it's like yeah you kind of always look like this just maybe not in this lean form i'm 208 in that photo dude and what do you walk around now uh like 180 okay yeah dude it's like it's like i would if i'd be like it like, yeah, I mean, he's like freakishly jacked. I take it back. I wasn't 18.

That was when I was on the bobsled team. Okay. Yeah. So that was when I was training for the Olympic team, and I needed to be at least 190. Okay. But 200 was better, and I got up to 210. That's a great picture. Oh, man.

Dude, that was a miserable time in my life. Miserable time. I didn't do anything. I thought everything was going to make me lose weight. You know? Like I didn't go on hikes life. Miserable time. I didn't do anything. I thought everything was going to make me lose weight. I didn't go on hikes. I didn't have fun. I didn't do anything. And, like, I mean, that's something that I really appreciate.

Now, we were just talking the other day because, for those of you who don't know, Max and his wife Nancy moved to Texas. Yeah. And they wanted to get more for their money and raise their kids and this and that. And now they're here right now. Yeah. you know get more for their money and raise their kids and this and that and now they're here right now yeah and i didn't even really appreciate where i lived for such a long time because i wasn't doing anything but like working grinding away and grinding away and i realized now that i would actually take less money to live a little bit more and i do it all the time like people see me on my trips like we were just talking about like some of my last couple of trips and it's like, oh man, that sounds really cool.

And it's like, yeah, I probably gave up to go on one of those trips. I might've given up like 10 grand worth of like sales or like energy and time I could have put into something that would have generated X amount of dollars or whatever, but I have to do it. And I'll, I mean, there's definitely days where it's like, Hey, if I post all day today, I'm going to make, you know, some cup, I can make a couple grand or something like that. But it's like, Hey, like, why don't you just fucking be on vacation and chill? And it's, it's a mind fuck.

I didn't realize that, man. Like I started riding my bike around. I started walking. I started going surfing. I started going to the beach, like on my downtimes and I'm like, Holy fuck. Like, it's not that I hated where I lived I hated myself yeah no it's dude it's a that's a very and I got to where I wanted to be and it it was cool it's cool like we're standing in the kitchen of my dream house yeah and it's like pretty dope it's

super dope but like if I was in the gym like I used to be 18 hours a day like I would yeah I would come home and sleep and I'd leave and I wouldn't get to enjoy any of it and it wouldn't really matter yeah and I feel like you know as much as Gary Vee is super rad I don't think he has to enjoy anything yeah I don't yeah listen it's that's a very it's that's a very I hate to say it millennial attitude or thing of you to say but like it's true like life is about making trade-offs, right? And like very few people have the capacity for pain as someone who competed in the games or, you know, whatever. But the thing is like, you don't need to prove to yourself that you can lift as much

weight or make as much money or whatever it is. Like, you know, you can do that, right? Like it's about your quality of life and your health span, right? Like you can make all this money or whatever it is like you know you can do that right like it's about your quality of life and your health span right like you can make all this money and be fucking miserable every person i knew that i grew up with who had more money than my family or middle class i wouldn't trade places with any of them never like ever literally my entire childhood growing up everybody i know had a lot of money sucked dude yeah it's a that's a tough it's tough to grow up with means right people everyone thinks it's like oh if you're a rich parent you're set for life like no dude like that's not you have a whole host of other problems you have to deal with that you know somebody who's poor from a not as fortunate background doesn't have to deal with but dude i say this all the time it was we moved to texas

to lower our cost of living improve our quality of life i mean mean, we did, we got everything we wanted, but we also said, we don't want this anymore. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and it's, it's a, we, oh man, I talk about it all the time. It's amazing that people go through their lives trying to please people other than themselves, like majority of them. And we just look around, we're like, dude, everyone's asleep. Like talk about this world that we live in. Like people are sleeping, man. Like they don't want to like, it's this, it's this other hand of like, Oh, I have to work really hard. And the other hand is like, Oh, like it's like, you know, I'm just like gonna, I'm happy with where I'm at. Or I'm like, you know, whatever it is, you make an excuse for like why you don't go out and live the life you

want to live, which is honestly part of the reason why you have success and why Nancy has success. Cause they look at like, I say, dude, it's not cool to be rich anymore. It's cool to be healthy. Like it's, and on top of that, it's cool to live how you want to live and do what you want to do. And that doesn't, that's irrespective of like what, like the answer of what is like, whether it's traveling, whether it's surfing, you know, it doesn't matter. It's just doing it when you want to do it. Like, dude, we're sitting here, like you, like we're sitting here in your house shooting this podcast. Like we didn't have to ask anybody. It's a beautiful day outside, had coffee outside. We didn't have

to ask a single person if it was okay. We didn't have to work, book a studio. We didn't have to, we just, we just we just like hey let's do let's do it yeah right and there's that's how people want to live right i say whatever i want to do in life my dad was able to if if we wanted to go golfing because we played sports growing up and stuff he didn't have to ask he didn't have to like call and be like hey is it okay if i like take my son to go like play golf at 2 p.m on a friday or a monday like he just did it and i i told myself whatever i that's the whatever we do like i don't care if it's selling like cold calling people whether it's selling ebooks or whatever it is like that's your time is your most precious

asset and it makes me laugh because you see all this shit about millennials being lazy or overeducated or whatever the fuck and it's like no having no retirement it's like dude can's like, dude, can you like, just think I had to laugh. Like I almost wanted to create an account and just make fun of all these dumb articles that like of people that don't understand like us. Right. And like how we view time. Um, it's like, dude, come on. Can you imagine like saying, Hey, you're going to put this money away every month. And like, maybe when you're 63 and you're 401k you can access it no dude like i care about the today like what am i doing today to invest in myself and and fitness is a huge fitness nutrition the two biggest things we can work longer now too like totally be more productive like i don't i'm not gonna retire at 60 anymore you know but but retiring isn't the goal right

like like we're not working these factory jobs where it's like hey you know i got a great job at ge and like uh my family my wife can stay at home and like raise two kids like dude that world doesn't fucking exist it doesn't exist from a job perspective and it doesn't exist from like a uh where the jobs are and like affordability perspective like whether you're here in san francisco like um dude it's like if you spent more time like focusing on like what you could do now versus like putting shit aside like to like Like whether you're here in San Francisco, like, um, dude, it's like, if you spent more time, like focusing on like what you could do now versus like putting shit aside, like to like for whatever, like, dude, it just doesn't, you know, it's just, it's kind of sad to be honest with you.

And like the way we live is just very different, right? We have, you know, all this software at our fingertips and, um, all this stuff. Like you can, I mean, you can access 100,000 people from your phone. Right now. Right this second. Yeah. Like, think, that's never, the great thing is, we were talking about, who's the, I forget her name,

one of the general girls who's like the youngest self-made billionaire or whatever. And people were like, oh, that's amazing. Like, how'd you do that? And I'm like, well, I can tell you how. Like, she private labels cosmetics, which are like supplements, the highest margin fucking business you could think of. And she has no marketing budget because everything she does is for free. Like, so you're eliminating two of the top three, call it cost centers of traditional

business, and you've eliminated them. And on top of that, you can scale it. Like, that's how you. She has tens of millions of followers. Dude, I don't even know. She doesn't even have to make an ad. It's just free. It's just organic right so like like it's it's just like fuck dude like that's never existed it's never existed in the history of human i mean i'm sure it's never

existed but like yeah you know and like that's where it's like all these things that people like oh these people are so vain they're posting on themselves or they're like oh they're doing this stuff and it's like no you don't get it like i i'm glad that you don't get it it's going to be hard for me to sit here and explain it to you because i myself don't understand it's like, no, you don't get it. Like, I, I'm glad that you don't get it. It's going to be hard for me to sit here and explain it to you because I myself don't understand it. Yeah. Like on some days. But it works.

It works, man. But it's, but it's about living. People follow you because you're living how they wish they could live. Most people. Right. And that's not saying like, you know, that's the reason why I like, you know, Joe Rogan, you know, the David Goggins, like all these motivational guys of the world who like, i'm not talking about like the like the tony robbins of the world i'm talking about like the motherfuckers who are a savages in real life yeah and like and on their instagram

like those people are what make that's just a cool thing everyone wants everyone needs to be especially me because i'm a team sports guy like i really struggle with like you know this whole solopreneur kind of thing. I just want to be part of a team. I want to run with a bunch of alphas. I'm not an individual. I could never compete in the game. Not that I could physically, but I was always a football guy.

I just needed other guys around me to lean on them and vice versa. Camaraderie. Yeah, dude. But that's life. It's just cool to be able to establish those like i don't even get to talk to people about the shit that i'm doing with online sales and it's fun just to talk to you about it because like it's another person i can like relate to there's a camaraderie just in that yeah and like it's like a secret yeah i don't want to actually get any more successful without bringing the other people with me and like talking to other people about it.

And like, that's what I love about the podcast now. It's like, hey, I'm not on here to brag to you guys about like, hey, like I just started making a bunch of money and I'm stoked. And look at me. In fact, I actually haven't done any of that ever yet. And I still drive. Well, you need to. I still drive a Toyota Tacoma. It's just not really my style. But like, but I do want people to get out of this podcast is like, I'm fucking telling

you what to do. Yeah. You should go do this because it's cool. And like, you don't have to sit behind your desk right now because you're probably working right now at a desk job and you're listening to this and you should be working. Yeah. No, it's like, if there's ever a thought in your mind, like, you know, I really have been thinking about this. Like, I hope that this podcast and the things that we're

saying, things that Max is saying is, is giving you that extra little nudge. Um, because if you look at your Instagram right now and you don't have a lot of followers, like we've said, it doesn't really mean anything now, but learning how to market yourself does. Dude, look at your life. Like we, you know, I don't even know if when like lifestyle design became a real term that we use, but like, that's all I think about is like designing a business or a product line around your life. Like if you could like, no matter what it is, like that's the gift of our generation is that you can build a business

around what you want to do. Yeah. Right. And it's going to come with, and if it's like a lavish lifestyle or like it requires a lot of money or whatever it is, like even if it doesn't, it's going to require sacrifices. Yeah. Like it's the, it's the trade-offs we talked about, right? Like, so like for us, we could texas and be happy as a clam and nothing against texas but we lived there for a year and we said listen we'd rather be on the beach like and we'll do whatever it takes to sacrifice to be on the beach there's something about that fucking water dude just go look at it and you're like i feel good it doesn't matter it just doesn't it's just a great thing it is it's amazing and it's like you can feel good. It doesn't matter. It just, it doesn't, it's just a great

thing. It is. It's amazing. And it's like, you can't explain, you have to experience it just like a lot of things in life. Like we're all about experiences because you talk about your travel, dude. It's like, like people are going to say like, you know, the whole, like the only thing that drives college right now is like the fear of missing out. Like the number one, like statistically show like, Oh, you should go to college. It's like, Oh, the people that went to college make more money. Right. It's like, Oh, but it doesn't show like the outliers, like statistically show, like, Oh, you should go to college. It's like, Oh, the people that went to college make more money. Right. It's like,

Oh, but it doesn't show like the outliers, people who didn't go to college and started their own business, whatever it is, make exponentially more money than the average person who went to college. And it's like, you know, we talked about the high ticket stuff.

Like dude, like there is college is a, it is a ticket to network. It's a very expensive ticket to network. But it used to be, right? It's, it still is now,

but like it used to be more valuable when it was harder to network. Right? Yeah. I think it's, I don't think it's, I don't want to say this right now, but like, I almost want to make a whole podcast separately,

but like, I don't think you should go to college anymore. Dude, I'm okay. I need to be on that podcast because I don't think you should get an MBA anymore. Like I, I spent a ton of money nights and weekends. Everybody I know has an MBA is all working for themselves right now, and they're like, fuck.

Dude, it's – And they're expensive. They're so expensive. And you actually learn – yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. I hate to be critical because people here are probably getting their MBA or going to college. But it's not that I think they're a bad idea. It's just that if you want to be an entrepreneur,

like if you want to start your own thing or you know that – You need to get experience. Yeah, and you don't need to go to school. Like you'll never learn it there. Like when I went to Anderson, got my MBA from UCLA, like all my classmates were way smarter than me, some of the smartest people I'll ever have the privilege to be around. I'll make more money and will be more successful than all of them because they're, they're

looking at it. And I had this conversation because it's like, it's like, Hey, um, you know, how are you going to spend $120,000 on school, buy a home in Los Angeles and raise two kids? Like, just explain to me and you're going to make $120,000 coming out of call out of grad school. That's a lot of money. It's just explaining to me, right? Just shoot economics.

Even if you make $250,000 out of school, you can't do shit with that hair. You can't. Just explain. And they're like, oh, well, but if you didn't go, you wouldn't make $250,000 or whatever it is. I'm like, what the fuck does that even mean? It's all this fear of missing out. We talked about this yesterday.

So you say a four-year degree is $120,000, call it on average. People are going to understand that you could buy 12 $10,000 courses and learn more about shit that will make you more money now or in the future than going to school for four years. And getting fucked up and doing all this stuff that's a lot of fun. But like it's just – it can't move fast enough. It's four years of you being on hold. But it's four outdated years. You know what I mean? years of you being on hold but yeah and it's but it's for outdated years you know what i mean like like they can't change if you and i created a high ticket course we could change that motherfucker by shooting a video putting it up online if the algorithm changed tomorrow we can say hey we didn't see and that's what makes gary i mean i'm not a

the biggest gary v fan like i just think that know, these self-help people say the most vague shit and people think they're like, they're like these savants. Like, I just, I can't stand that. But like his thing is like, but he can change fast and that's what's required in the marketing. It's, it's funny. That's almost like what's not required in like fitness and nutrition is like, it's like discipline, right? It's like, dude, that like, right. It's like, it's like discipline, right? It's like, dude, like, right. It's like, it's like, there are no shortcuts. Um, but yeah, it just drives me, you know, I just think that like, if you're listening to this and you're like, you know, what are you thinking like going out on your own? You're like, Hey, what are these skills that I can learn? Right? Like, first of all, I've never met anyone that looks the way you do, or kind of like, you know, just say that is in really good shape.

That's fucking lazy or unsuccessful. They might not have a great personality, right, to your original point. But, like, dude, like, get your, like, it starts with you. Like, it's your mindset, like, and it's your attitude. Like, and if you could harness that through fitness and nutrition, dude, the fucking world is your oyster, man. You can run the best Facebook ads. You could become the best video editor. There's so many best website builder, coder.

There's so many other skill sets that are so much more important than whatever your boss is fucking telling you to do right now, dude. I'm smiling over here because my old boss, right when I got done being homeless, it was my first job. It was in Los Angeles working for this guy named Ronnie Teasdale who's completely out of his mind now and a lot of people who are listening they know who he is and I'll never forget he had had an accountant for three years he had never met this person did a really good job for him you know no problems his accountant I mean I was there when this happened his account was like hey I'm gonna come to the gym I need you to sign some things blah blah blah and he's like oh well you know yeah come to the gym the guy comes there and he's fat dude ronnie fires him on the spot and the guy's like brutal like literally the guy gets there

like hey like well use your papers whatever and i'm your tax guy and ronnie's like oh my god you're overweight like literally this guy had just met him and he's like what do you mean he's like, oh my God, you're overweight. Like literally this guy had just met him and he's like, what do you mean? And he's like, I mean, you're fat. Dude, I'll never, I can't forget this. And the guy's just looking at him like, okay. And he's like, and then it's like this weird, awkward silence. And he's like, I no longer feel good about you being my tax guy. I can't, I can't do this anymore.

And the guy's like, I've been your tax guy for three years. Everything's fine. And he's like, well, now all I can think about is that you're lazy. And I attribute fat people to being lazy. Dude, he fucking fired him that day. Never saw him again. Never talked to him again. And I literally, that was like one of the most

piercing memories of my whole life i was like whoa and like now i can't get over it now if i see anybody who's fat i'm like nope next next like i mean like i immediately think even though it's it's not accurate like yeah no across the board at least it's like i just i'm like oh yeah he's probably lazy you know yeah i mean it's not like you Yeah. I mean, it's not like, you're right. It's not, it's not a hundred percent accurate. Yeah. Right. Like, but you know, we don't have time in life to be a hundred percent accurate about anything. Yeah. Maybe other than your spouse, but like, you know what I mean? Like, so like it's, it's, we have these, you know, I, you know, I, that, that's a, that's a really actually great story, but it's funny. Cause it makes me, what it makes me think of what story in business school was we had an economics professor who said,

listen, let me tell you why you can come to Anderson. You could not learn a single thing, but it would still be a good return on your time. And he goes – and then he goes into like signaling theory, right? Like you can signal to the marketplace or to your partner or whatever it is about who you are before even meeting them. I think college did that for me. It does. It gave me a little extra height that I needed.

I got screwed. I was like, I'm 5'9". It's cool. But it's so true though it signals to the market it's not saying every person who's a little bit overweight is lazy but on average they're probably not going to light the world on fire

compared to somebody who takes their fitness and nutrition very seriously it's just probably true I'm going to light a pizza on fire burn it in front of their face. Well, fuck. Well, how I would like to end the show

is basically we've given them a nice solid summary of things they should be kind of looking into when it comes to marketing themselves, especially in the space. I think in this particular podcast, we're part of the Shrug Collective here, and I think we have 83% males. Okay.

And, like, more than half of them, like, own some sort of fitness business. Oh, nice. Own a gym, something like that. There's a lot of people that are, you know, this is valuable information for them. So let's just reiterate, like, maybe your top three things when going into business for yourself. Like if you were to shut this podcast off right now, don't forget these three things. Yeah. Um, three things I would say do one is never give up. Like don't compare yourself. Don't get discouraged. Like to me, that's number one because that's, and that's a huge key piece is because the moment people like

don't see that light at the end of the tunnel, it makes you question everything you're doing. Like, you know, if you're like, I'm not going to shoot this video cause no one's fucking watching it. Like you're like at that point you're so close to kind of, you know, breaking through it. Right. And that, that those forks in the road, it's like, so you can't, you can't stop. You can't give up. Um, two is I would just be like, you know, make it so you can't give up.

Like when I, when I, I mean, these are all going to be able to not giving up. So I just get to take your notepad out. Um, if, if you believe in something so much, you'll do whatever it takes. Like that's, you just, it's, it's, it's more about not giving up than anything because you'll find a way to make it happen. Like, and you'll trade and you'll trade things that you don't, right. You'll, you'll spend time. I know I stole stuff and you'll steal, right. You'll steal things way to make it happen. And you'll trade things that you don't. You'll spend time. I stole stuff.

Yeah, you'll steal things. I slept on couches. I did a bunch of fucked up stuff. Almost became a stripper. Yeah, you'll do whatever it takes. But that's what makes it. So first step is not give up. And the second is, to the counterpoint,

is if you can not give up,, you got to enjoy the journey. Like, you have to. Like, no matter what level of success you'll have, you'll always look back and say, dude, those were the good old days. Like, remember when I was like, because ignorance is bliss. Like, you don't want to be so overly analytical that, like, you can't move. Like, for me, I'm super cerebral. So I suffer from like analysis paralysis where like Nancy just fucking shoots off her hip 24 seven, like never thinks twice about anything, but that's what makes her really good. And like, that's what makes me really good about what I, about my side

of it is like, so just like, you have to like play to your strengths, man. And like to that last point is like, build a team. You gotta, you gotta build a team like there's not a single person who's a super successful like solopreneur like they might crush it in like one year or two years or five whatever it is but like they're not going to build anything lasting and like that's the thing is like you got to think about each step that you make it you'll look back and be like oh fuck like like it was like there was there was beauty about like not like needing to hit this number every month and like not not spending money to like you know there's beauty about not needing to hit this number every month and not spending money. There was beauty in just posting it. Our moment was we would go to Palm Springs,

and we first launched our site. The Shopify store would ring as a cash register every time. So it would be like six sales in a weekend. We'd be like, dude, we just got paid like 360 bucks to like vacation here for the weekend like this is like so sick like you know that there's beauty in that right we've never like right like we'll be like oh we had this like a month it was like our best month ever we're like oh shit there's like still meat on the bone to like like really grow this thing and then you know ignorance is bliss but it's like you have to enjoy the journey or it'll fucking eat you up

either because there's so many people that don't make it or who give up or have something adverse that like there's so many different like talking about your life coming in there's so many different ways your life could have turned out than being in this dope ass house having this podcast right this second and like and they're all small things dude they're tiny for me they were just like i was at a road and it was left right like multiple times and like any time i went the other direction it would have been totally different and those are just the ones you remember yeah right like think about all the shit like did the how think about how and that's the thing is you realize how lucky we are like all these things and that's why my favorite thing is like jocko williams like good thing is like all

this negative shit it's like an opportunity like every time, and I fundamentally believe this about our business. I'm living it right now. Dude, dude. Torn bicep. And I can't imagine, I'd be crying in my room for a week, dude, if like that happened to me. I'm such a pussy when it comes to injuries. Like, but that's just a testament to your mindset, dude. Like you're, like I always say when I look at you, the strongest thing on your body is your fucking brain.

Like it might not look that way for your body because you're fucking jacked. But you know what I mean? Like that's, that's what people, that's what people don't understand is like that like anywhere right like you gotta have like none of this shit's free and like everyone like there's so much luck that goes involved to it but the biggest thing combatant against luck is just fucking keep swinging um and it's only gonna get harder like it's it's only it's never gonna get easier like your problems now you have or the problems you dream of having like five years ago, but there's still fucking problems.

Yeah. Like there's still, it still keeps you up at night or, you know, it's still on your mind. Like they never go away. I read a quote that, that luck doesn't actually exist. It's just preparation meets opportunity. It's so fucking true. So like I, ever since I read that, I'm like, holy fucking shit.

That's like so, like I did all of this for this luck to happen. And I was like, I was just really fucking prepared. Yep. Well, I always think the harder you work, the luckier you're getting. That's kind of my version of it. So it's all kind of the same. It's the same, dude. That's cool.

You know, it's easy to look back and be like, oh, yeah. But like Ryan, like peek at the games. Like before it was the games it is now. It's like, so fuck what? Like you can't take, you know, like people, you can't be like, there's no train for the Olympics before that. I mean, I did a lot of things before that. That's what I'm saying. But people don't like, they like, you know, your story, but like the millions of people only know one version of it.

Right. And like, they're not going to, people aren't going to care to listen, but you also can't give a fuck about what they think. Like, you know what I mean? Like you just live your life unapologetically and like people will continue to gravitate towards that no matter what the algorithm does, no matter how good you are at paid traffic, none of this shit. Like the thing is, it's like, none of it matters. Like, so you, you got to enjoy the process. Like you've got, you've got to sit there and be like, listen, like I'm going to keep grinding this ax and like, whether I, you know, make it to the games or I don't even like fucking get to make it to the open.

Like I'm just going to embrace, you know, like this because that's the only, it's just a struggle, dude. No one gets, it's not free for anyone. And I'll just add to not worry about your followers and your likes. Damn, see there. Just because that's a big one that you said during the podcast, which I think is going to resonate

with a lot of people because it just, it gives them more hope. People want to, people love hope. It's actually one of the biggest things that sells is giving people hope is actually one of your biggest selling features. So, um, what are, where are some of the places that people can find you and Nancy? Me? On Nancy's Instagram. Um, so yeah, so, so Nancy is on a Nancy Anderson fit. Uh, I'm on Max Anderson fat, so that's pretty easy. Is it really? Yeah. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. Well, I don't, like, post or anything. That is all time. I actually posted my first story the other day of Dude Meals. Oh, really?

Yeah, you probably didn't see it. Oh, man. I was, uh, because I was, I was, because it was funny because I knew something was wrong because I don't normally work out at four

and, like, it was, like, packed for the open because I don't normally work out at 4. And, like, it was, like, packed for the open. And I'm not, like, in the open. So I'm just, like, you know. But I saw Jack running around with the camera. And I was, like, all right, let me get on the gram and see if they got shots of your boy on there. And, like, no, like, you didn't post anything. And you're always so good about posting everything.

And then when you came on and said about your bicep, I was, like, oh, fuck, dude. That's a huge fuck. That would make sense on why they didn't post the normal stuff yeah um but yeah so that night i went home and i got two fillets because i was fucking starving and i grilled them up and put them in a cereal bowl and i was like i hope i'm doing this right oh that's so awesome but uh i can't wait to make dude meals like so big dude feels so it's we got we got to collaborate on um some stuff because i always tell nancy i'm like dude i'm like the dad version of like – you know what I mean? I see all the stuff you're doing and I'm like – I can't really relate to her stuff because it's – I'm just not – that's not me, right? But I've like started to see yourself.

I'm like, dude, yeah, it's fucking less is more, dude. Meat and cereal, fucking brilliant. Like buddy building, fucking brilliant. I'm like, I'm happy for you. And on the other hand, I'm'm like why did i think of that it's so funny i have a friend he's the he's the official chef for dan and shay florida georgia line all these people and i hit him up recently and i was like hey man i need you to make my dude meals like even cooler you know what i mean like can you make them like super fucking dope

and like you know yeah just like just make them like just even dope and like, you know, I just like, just make them like just even better, you know? And he's like, well, what can I do? I'm like, well, you can't use more than like three and four ingredients. It can't take more than five minutes. He's like, dude, I can't fucking do anything with this. And then I was like, well, just try for me. And he like, he'll make me some stuff.

And I'm like, bro, that looks like it takes way too long. I'm already out. He's like, this took me seven minutes. I'm like two minutes too long. like it takes way too long. I'm already out. He's like, this took me seven minutes. I'm like, two minutes too long. And we're just like arguing over it. And like, I'm just like, dude, you're fired. He's like one of the best chefs in the world. I'm like, I can't have you.

Not at Dude Meals? Yeah. Under what classification? But this kitchen's like perfect. You can do like a chopped version of Dude Meals. I can't wait to do videos in here. Dude can do like a chopped version of dude meals. I can't wait to do videos in here. This is killer. But yeah, just to add to this whole thing too, even the dude meals that we're joking about, imagine I could sell a menu that doesn't actually have a restaurant. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. We're living in a time now where you could

sell a menu at a restaurant without a restaurant, without servers, without food. Yeah. And someone, you could make more money on that than you could on a restaurant. Dude, it's, the more, just think about what you, like what you sound, like if you would have said that like a year ago or two years ago. I'm going to make a menu that you can buy. People would have, more than your restaurant. Seriously. People would have thought you were the craziest, dumbest person.

Like, think about like, and that's what we, like, this stuff that sounds crazy, like, once you get in this world that we're in, it's like, oh, shit, dude, like, how far can we take this thing? Yeah. Like, you look at the targeting options. Like, you know, I always say this. You have to, like, preface your way of thinking about things because people think, like, oh, they make all these companies

and it's capitalism and all this stuff. They're making things for, like, our enjoyment. And it's like, oh, they make all these companies and it's capitalism. They're making things for like our enjoyment. And it's like, oh, like Apple puts a camera on so they can take selfies easier. It's like, no, they do it so they can like see where your eyes are going. It's like they're not thinking the way that we're thinking.

And it's like, you look at what's going to be possible because I look at like how well we can target now and like, I'm like, oh, fuck dude. Like we're going to like, it's going to be down to like, you know, it's like a drone, like dropping an ad or like a package on you.

Get the girl that has like the freckle on her inner thigh. Oh, I thought I recognized you. Like the future is, it's going to be, it's going to be a weird one, dude. And it's like,

but yeah, like you say something like that would sound like it sounds – wouldn't even be plausible. And now you're like, yeah, that actually makes perfect sense. We should do that. We should do that. And I hope this podcast is at the forefront of your next knowledge base. Dude. So, all right.

Nancy Anderson fit. Max Anderson fat. I actually didn't do it as a joke it's all time the funniest part is like I did it and I was like I was like

oh like that's just like I would like didn't think it'd be funny but that's apparently people find it's funny yeah I think you might get a lot of followers

out of that there you go man I gotta post something it's too perfect and there's a website for Nancy Anderson yeah yeah so we

yeah so our three business line our three companies are nancyandersonfit.com and we also started this year Move Your Bump, which is pregnancy fitness and conception,

conception, pregnancy fitness and then postpartum recovery and then Tread Thrill, which is our online, we call it, we call it, so I like what you did

with Hib, we call it Shit, which is choreographed high intensity interval training. So we have a bunch of shit jokes. Oh, that's fucking awesome. Yeah, so we always do that, like take a shit, which is choreographed, high-intensity interval training. So we have a bunch of shit jokes. Oh, that's fucking awesome.

We always do that, like take a shit. We have some funny videos. But yeah, those are our stuff. Awesome. Yeah, dude. Thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate it. It's been awesome. I'm stoked. I hope you guys love the episode. Make sure that when you do love the episode that you don't just tag me, but you also tag Max Anderson Fett.

Maybe tag his wife, Nancy Anderson-Fett. We'll all get a good kick out of it. I'll see you guys next week. Thanks for hanging out. Over and out.