Barbell Shrugged - Dr. Sean Pastuch: Building (3 Pillars) A Bigger And Better Coaching Business — Barbell Shrugged #375

Episode Date: January 30, 2019

Dr. Sean Pastuch (@drseanpastuch) is a doctor, coach, educator, coach to athletes, and founder of Active Life Rx, which he founded with a belief that the world deserves better solutions than the current modern medical model. Active Life Rx is the only company in the world helping thousands of people to get out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym. They also educate health care providers and fitness professionals on how to provide solutions to their clients the way we do for ours. In this episode of Barbell Shrugged,  we talk to Dr. Sean Pastuch about developing professional coaches, why clarity of vision is the most important conversation you will have in any relationship, finding your niche, and how to create space for mentorship both for yourself and those you are developing.   Enjoy!   - Anders and Doug   Episode Breakdown:   ⚡️0-10: Why the fitness industry is failing coaches ⚡️11-20: The system Dr. Pastuch has created to develop better coaches and why you should have a target audience ⚡️21-30: How to understand what people really want and use that to communicate effectively with your clients ⚡️31-40: Meeting your clients where they are at and taking action on your clients deepest emotions ⚡️ 41-50: Why clarity of vision is the most important conversation to have in any relationship ⚡️51-60: How to find your niche and why it is the path to success ⚡️61-70: Be remarkable, authentic, and ready to deliver the truth to your clients through social media ⚡️71-80: Why you’ll sell things the same way you buy things ⚡️81-90: How to be an awesome intern and create space for mentorship ⚡️91-100: Look for opportunities to learn at all times in all spaces ⚡️101-110: How to gain people's trust on purpose and Dr. Sean’s mission statement ⚡️111-117: Expressing gratitude while critically evaluating your life   ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs-pastuch ----------------------------------------------------------------------- @organifi - www.organifi.com/shrugged to save 20% ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shrugged family, we're back. Another Wednesday, another Shrugged. Life is good. Hanging out with Dr. Sean Pastuch today. He took the train from Long Island to Manhattan to hang out with us at Solace New York at Kenny Santucci's Strong New York event. We had a blast. One of the relationships that I've been super stoked to gain over the last 14 months of hanging out with barbell shrugged is with dr sean pastuch he's gone from guy i knew about to guy we had on the show to guy i get to talk to a lot to guy i call a friend now really respect all the things he puts out um i've been a big fan of his programs and a big fan of his business and even bigger fan of his work ethic and grind and just the true commitment and passion that he puts into his clients and into his business I am really stoked to get this interview out because the first time we talked to him

we were talking about all the rehab and movement pieces. And I could just tell that he was not 100% in on that interview. Like he knew all of the pieces of the things that he was supposed to say, but there just wasn't that fire and that passion to what he was talking about. As I became better friends with him, I realized that personal development, professional development, creating professional coaches is a massive piece of his business and what he is truly passionate about, which is awesome because we see eye to eye. He has his programs. We have the strong coach. The strong coach is crushing. His programs are crushing. And it seems like all the people that are really operating on a really high level right now are really trying to

help coaches make more money get more clients turn this training thing that we all love into a real profession very very excited to have him on the show and get the 100% true passionate dr. Sean Pastuch out to the world today. I want to thank our sponsors for today's show, Organifi. You can get over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. Use the coupon code shrugged to save 20%. And if you get a hold of the gold drink with the pumpkin spice in it, gah, gah, unbelievable, unbelievable.

I drink it all the time now. It's like fall in my mouth. I also love the green drink, but right now I'm on a huge pumpkin spice kick. I feel like a sorority girl at Starbucks getting the pumpkin spice latte. Makes me feel good, though. Makes me feel good. Get over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. And make sure, as always, take a screenshot of the show.

Tag me at Anders Varner. Hit me with the hashtag go long. We're going long today with Dr. Sean Pastuch. Let's make it happen. I understand your question. Do you listen to music or are you just like pure podcast and nothing else? No, I definitely listen to music. I'm music.

We're going to bring you a little bit tighter. There you go. This is why we do the pre-show. There you go. I'm making out with it. Yeah. This is usually where I answer my Brett Contreras joke that no one ever gets. We're coming to the tail end of that. I haven't used it in a couple shows now.

Go ahead. So I listen to music. I have like times in the day. So I'll listen to music while I'm cooking breakfast. I listen to music while I'm making short drives. I listen to music

when I'm exercising at any kind of intensity. I listen to podcasts the rest of the time I'm listening to something. How do you engage in music when you're working? Yes.

So I love hip-hop beats with no words. No words. There it is. I am a one song, like 10 straight hours, maybe even a month of consistent days in a row of one song. And my most recent song is I Would Do Anything for Love by Meatloaf. Just on repeat. On repeat. Really? And I would do

anything for love. That was really good. That's not distracting for you? Right? How could it be distracting? It turns into nothing. I mean, how could Meatloaf be distracting? I can't answer that. Run right into hell and back. Have you guys played around with these binaural beats while you concentrate?

Wait, are you biohacking my system here? I'm sorry. I'm trying to squeeze it in without you noticing. You pay attention to this biohacking thing. Well, I find that stuff really effective because it's kind of soothing. It's called study hop. Yeah, and they've got ones for like relaxation or focus i also can like i'll throw on some like mild um you know classical music or whatever but the binaural thing it's like it's meant to help you kind of grease the groove so it does help you yeah i do

yeah i use it when i'm like when i need to write um and when i need to not be distracted um still an article a month of magazine no i'm writing probably like two or three per issue for Paleo Magazine, and then from month to month I might write three or four for the different publications around here that I'm doing freelance stuff for, and I'm writing on Medium a little bit for sort of my own personal. I'm a hustler, baby. Yeah, you know, I do a little here and there. Just want you to know.

Welcome to Barbell Thug i'm andrew varner doug larson ashley van houten we're at solace new york strong new york what a killer event what this has been really is great dr sean past you back in the house and we brought you back well one because we like hanging out with you but thanks two we hang out with you at the crossfit games and i can always tell when we're interviewing people that they're like going they're like telling you the thing that they know but they're not really stoked on it and I was dying to find the thing that you were stoked on and then I like really started digging into all the content you're putting out and all the the messaging going out and I was like oh this is the thing you really

want to talk about yeah you like doing the rehab thing, but there's some bigger things going on in your life right now. And we post on Instagram, like, we're going to the Northeast, and who should we interview? And the whole fucking world asked for you. The people want you. Worst things have happened. Were you like, oh, my God, this is incredible?

That day had to have been pretty. Sean was calling all his friends, tag me on Instagram, tag me on Trump. Some people did that, and they're not on the show. It was a nice little dopamine drop, for sure. You're tagged again, you're tagged again, you're tagged again. Yeah. It was cool. For those of you that, for some odd reason, haven't listened to the first show,

what's a little bit of your history, background? And we're going to do that really short because that's. Yeah, history and background. We've got a lot of things to talk about. Started a company. Out of being a chiropractor, personal trainer, CrossFit gym owner, realized that people didn't want to be in the office. They didn't want to be paying for it to get out of pain.

The two questions you always get asked are, what's this going to cost and how long is it going to take? Which means I don't want to be here and I don't want to spend my money on this. So can I stop? And that sucked. That was always a really crappy way to start relationships with people. Because you get to help them while they're down, and then they become a happy person who can do things,

and they're like, all right, peace. I just want to see you again. And that sucked. So the question we would ask is, where would you rather be? And the answer was always in the gym. So we looked for a solution that could get people out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym. And we're here now.

I love it. But that has also now led into this bigger piece, I guess, bigger piece. But your next evolution, you're really, do we say you're clearly helping coaches kind of find a way to become professionals in this industry, which is not the easiest. But when did you start to realize how much of a hole there is in kind of the professional, personal, self-development piece to this? And one of the coolest quotes, I'm going to botch it, even though I love the quotes, like, how do you make a better business, become a better person? A lot of this stuff that you're working on now, how did you start to see kind of the holes of why this industry is failing a lot of coaches and starting to put the pieces together?

Yeah, so sadly, I started to see those holes in 2005 when I first started really doing personal training as a career. I wasn't valuable enough to plug any of them until maybe early 2017. So that's the, I mean, that that is a damn that that hurts to say out loud but it's the truth you know it's like 12 years of me looking at what other people were doing and saying this is what they're doing wrong this is what other people are doing wrong is what other people are doing wrong instead of spending all of this time trying to figure out what i could do right and when i made that little mental switch i immediately became more valuable to other people they how long were your personal trainer for before opening the gym or was that all the same time no so i was a personal trainer for six years before i opened my first crossfit

gym nice getting go is that so is that maybe a first piece of advice you'd give to somebody who's looking to become a personal trainer is sort yourself out first like before you you go out there and try to fix other people like well that was the jordan peterson coming out and you he's canadian you know if i if you call me the female jordan peterson we got a problem on our hands like this is a whole different topic. You're not liking it? There are definitely worse things he can call you.

For sure. For sure. Yeah. Okay. That's another subject. Anyway. We've got to try. The answer to that, it doesn't have to be personal training.

It could be anything. I was talking to Doug earlier about a post that we made. There was this high school kid who jumped on the post and was tearing it apart. I'm like, whoa. I said, listen, you're in high school and I want to give you some advice because everything else that I would tell you I've already said in the feed. You have two choices every time that you face a situation. Option A is look for what's not valuable.

Option B is look for what is. And the more time that you spend trying to tear other people down and detract from other people's value, the harder it's going to be for you to expand your own value and to add to that. I know that because I did it

long enough. I never got to the point of trolling people's Instagram accounts and putting negative comments. Not yet. It didn't exist. You would have. Idiot. It did. But, you know, that is a lesson that in my own head I had to learn.

So it was like, look, yeah, I disagree with what that guy's doing over there, but he's got 20 people who say he's doing a great job. So who the fuck am I to say he's doing it wrong? This is a really trickier lesson to learn than you think, though, because it seems like common sense that before you want to teach other people, you need to kind of understand yourself and be sorted out. Right. But it's it's a pretty common thing that people who, for example, go into psychology or go into social work, often they go into these areas because they have some either inner demons or they have some struggles or some issues that maybe they're trying to, maybe they're trying to understand, but oftentimes trying to avoid, right? Like I, I have in my own personal life, I know people who have gone into psychology to be able to more effectively put up walls so that they don't have to deal with their own problems. They can deal with other people's problems instead. And again, so this could get pretty deep, but that's why guys

universally know in college that if you're dating a girl that has a major in psychology, she might be crazy. But people go into social work because they have, you know, if you're dating a girl that has a major in psychology, she might be crazy. But people go into social work because they have, you know, they've had issues with their home life or their family or whatever. So it's, I guess what I'm saying is it's not always, it may be simple but not easy for people to be that introspective and reflective and be like, oh, shit, I got to deal with my own problems. I just want to go help these people get fit. Yeah. I mean, look, part of the reason why I got into what I got into is because I wasn't able to do some of these things. You know, the expression if you can't do coach, like it's real. You know, if I was if I could be a pro baseball player, I probably wouldn't be on this show right now talking about the things that we're talking about. Maybe about pro baseball, but I would have been developing a different part of my life yeah i couldn't do it and i was annoyed that

i couldn't do it and there were things about that experience that made me say okay why didn't i make it well they always said you're too small well why was i too small i didn't know how to exercise i didn't have the right genetics all these. What things could I learn that would have maybe fixed that for me? And that's absolutely the path that it started me on. I feel like we, I mean, I know we interviewed Mike Boyle, and I've been in a few internet debates with him calling him an idiot. Like, I'm qualified to call him an idiot when I'm 30 years old. Like, he's got me.

And his quote, I think, somewhere along the lines of like you the less you know the more like adamantly you are going to defend your position and all of this stuff and I don't I assume it's in every industry but in the fitness industry where we're in man these people with our these lovely level one certifications, or you go and get your, your first degree and you've got a little bit of success behind you. Then we start to realize like there's a big world out there. We have to really get better at becoming a professional in this thing. Yeah. The day of my life when I was the smartest I've ever been was graduation from chiropractic school. Never been smarter in my life. I got it all figured out.

Yeah. I was already a personal trainer now for, for what? Four years. And now I'm a doctor too. Like who's smarter than me? Fucking nobody. I'm the man.

Well, don't, don't a lot of medical schools, dental, medical or medicine rather like have a black and white party when they graduate? You know what that is? No, I don't know what that is. Maybe it's not something everyone does.

But I dated a girl who was a dentist, and they had a black and white party at the end of dental school where everything in school is black and white. It's easy to figure out yes or no, what's the right answer, wrong answer. But then once you're out in the real world, black and white's over. It's all gray in the real world. There's no right answers at all. It depends.

It's all context dependent. There's a variety of ways you can take care of something and it's not black and white like it is in school so maybe coming out of school as well like all the examples things you dealt with in school were easier because like they were presented as examples then you got in real world there's no one there to like make these really easy distinctions between this or that for sure now it's just open yeah it's that and also, oh, I see that chiropractor over there, and he doesn't know anything about exercise. And I see that personal trainer over there,

and he doesn't know anything about what a disc is. So I'm obviously smarter than both. Maybe. Yeah, totally. So I guess getting into a little bit of, like, the process you're doing to take people from this know-it-all trainer and then actually you've gotten their attention to say, hey, there's a better process to this. Where does that start for you?

And, I mean, really, like what is this system that you've kind of started to put in place with a lot of coaches that you're using for helping them out? So I think what you're talking about is our Coach's Immersion Program, which is where we actually teach someone the hard skills of how to solve a very specific problem set and what we do is we just we literally teach them that you can know a little bit about everything and then you can say that you solve all problems for all people or you can know a lot about this one thing and you can solve one problem for a few people in a really deep way yeah and you know by no means will that program take somebody from you know nothing or you know a lot and now you know more so you're going to be wealthy and professional yeah what it does is it gives you the thing that you can specialize in in the gym and the value that you can bring to the people in your facility that is unique you know most people

walk around the gym and they're like oh you know who who can you help doesn't matter grandma teenager professional athlete wheelchair bound i can help them all it's like cool cool, man. That guy said he can only help people who are exactly like me, so I'm going to go work with him. Yeah. I didn't learn that for a long time. It took me a really hard thing. Especially, I think CrossFit coaches struggle with that because we make our impact on broad time and modal domains.

We have to know how to coach all the gymnastics and all of the Olympic lifting and all like energy system experts. And you're coming out of the CrossFit space. Did that kind of like drive a little bit of this? I need to help these people understand that it's important to actually have a message so they know how to find clients. So I got that from a coach I hired to help me find that. You know, when we first started with this coach, his name was Dirk. Dirk said, you know, why did you open this clinic and why did you open this gym? And it was like, oh, to make people's lives better, to help people move better, to help them feel better, all that, you know, all that good stuff. And he's like, that's cool. That's why you got into this field. Yeah. Why did you

open these businesses? I said, oh, because that was a modality to do those things and to help people and did it again. And he's like, no, you open these businesses to make money. Yeah. You could have done all of those things for free. Or you could have gone and worked at somebody else's place and done it for them for pay. But so then he said, okay, so the business solves the problem of not having money. Then what problem does the business solve? When we're in the fitness industry, we're all driven to help people.

So talking about money starts to be a real hang-up for a lot of people because they want to lead from their soul. Like, I want to help all the people. I would do this job for free. That's like the thing people and coaches say. I just want to be here and help them. Who's stopping you? Go tell your boss who would be happy to have more money that you're going to work for free now. Why don't all my coaches work for free? They loved it so much. But that's not what we should have as a message in our industry. No. And I talk about this

at our coach workshop in person where we talk about how to take the knowledge that you're gaining and turn it into money that people are more happy to pay you than not for the value that you're going to provide. And I start off by reading my mission statement to them that talks about being a husband to my wife, being a father to my kids, teaching them to be valuable adults and all this nice stuff. Right. It's a nice mission statement. I wrote it. Took me like a month to write.

And I explained to them that if I didn't have money to be able to take the day off to go do my daughter's Father's Day event at her school because I have to go somewhere else. What am I teaching my kid? Right? If I don't have enough money to take my kids with me when I go places, what am I teaching my kids? That work is more important than them. Even if that's not true, even if work is so that I can take care of them,

they're learning. He prioritizes work before me. So for me, it was, how can I make enough money to be able to spend enough time with the things that are important to me and the people who are important to me? You have a third kid coming on the way, right? Dude.

What are you going to do? I have a phenomenal neck. Doug's got an e-book out on it because he's got three kids. I should buy it. I'm the only one here who doesn't have kids, so feel free to terrify me all you want. Do you babysit? What are you going to do?

What are you going to do? Make fun of us with all that free time you have? Pretty much, yeah. I have a lot. I'm not at the age, obviously. We're all 30-somethings. Pretty much everybody I know has a kid or two at this point. And I love children.

And I spend a lot of time around babies and kids. But I can, of course, and I can babysit. But I can also give them back after a few hours. So I only have enough. I hear the horror stories and I see the cute baby and that's the that's the extent of my um involvement and understanding and I come from a very big family so I have a lot of siblings which I think is what has terrified me for having children because I grew up with around so many of them streamline things a little bit oh my goodness

but yeah I mean chop out all the things that you love right now I feel like I hear way more of the this is how it's going to change your life and how it's going to change your relationship which is a big scary point for me and how much it irreversibly changes the way your brain works and the way you think about the world and all of these things because I guess the way the love and the happiness and the joy can't be communicated maybe as clearly I don't know i just i don't hear the good stuff as much as i hear the like terrifying so i would say that outside of like catastrophic events i didn't cry for like 15 years now i cry when i watch movies about and and it's it's sad maybe but it's true and um the other you know the thing that kids have taught me is that i had a bcba board certified behavior analyst who's a good friend of mine so when my

daughter would throw tantrums early on i was like what do i do she's throwing her head against the wall i can't let her do that and i would intervene when that happened and she was like if you intervene when she throws her head against the wall what you're't let her do that. And I would intervene when that happened. And she was like, if you intervene when she throws her head against the wall, what you're teaching her is that if you want my attention, throw your head against the wall. She's like, you have to be totally calm, let her do it, and then when

she's ready to calm down, have the calm communication with her, and then she's going to flip out again and repeat. So I was like, you've got to come over and show me how to do this. I don't understand what you're talking about. So my daughter was having a thing where she didn't want to walk downstairs without anybody carrying her down the stairs and she was like one and a half two maybe whatever it was at the time and i was like i don't want to hurt herself and i also don't want to teach her that like she can do this three hours to get her down the stairs twice and we've never

had a problem with it since and it was she's like look let her throw herself on the ground and when she's calm say hey do you want a sticker do you want a toy want to come down the stairs so incredible patience is what you're learning well it was it's i learned that do you do the incentive thing very often you do this and i'll give you this like you want a sticker you want a toy like you just said in extreme cases like that we do yeah um what i've what i've found and what i was really more getting at i don't think i did a good job was that when when i lose my temper or when i answer things shortly when i don't do a good job and i'm angry it's not because of something that she did it's because of something

that i wasn't able to influence effectively so I've learned that now when my daughter cries, so in an example nowadays, instead of being like, hey, stop crying. It's not helping anything. Or being like, hey, I'm just going to leave you alone. Okay, when you're ready to stop. None of that. I'll walk over and I'll go right to

what's the emotion that you're feeling. So I'll ask her, hey, are you scared? If she just fell down and is crying because she fell. And she says yes and then the tears stop and now she'll talk about what she's scared of and then we can have a conversation about a rational thought instead of an emotional thought and it's amazing because next time that happens she doesn't cry and when she's calm now we can have conversations like i said hey sometimes when we fall we don't need to. She's like, cry it all.

And now she repeats that. The other day she fell in ballet class and she didn't cry. And I looked at her and she's like, daddy, I didn't cry, but my vagina hurt. It's a tough little girl. You've done this a couple times. People that focus on the way that they're talking to themselves or speaking to other people, when did you have to have started to realize that language plays a big part in the way you think and the way you perceive things?

When did that kind of start for you? I wish I knew the answer to that. It was definitely, again, that same first coach that I had. He talked about the idea that you don't treat people the way that you want to be treated. Because they don't want to be treated like you do. Treat them the way that they want to be treated. And then it became the whole experiment about learning, well, how do people want to be treated, and

how do I make sure that I'm doing it like that? You know... Was this a coach at your gym or someone you guys hired outside? He was a member of my gym who had done really well in business, and I just wanted help, like, how do I find leads and close them and he was like you gotta be a better person like oh fuck this

I knew you were gonna say that I hate it when I already do but so we started with learning how to understand what people really want out of a situation so that I can better demonstrate my intent to reduce relationship tension and earn trust and then I just started diving into it and learning my intent to reduce relationship tension and earn trust.

And then I just started diving into it and learning on purpose how to actually communicate better. So Mark England, you know Mark. Actually, right before I interviewed Mike Boyle, or we interviewed Mike Boyle on Thursday, I had like an hour and a half with Mark England. If you want to know how to prepare for the podcast of a lifetime with the legend himself, Mike Boyle, have about an hour and a half with Mark England.

Get your language right. You get everything right. And then you go in there and you're like, I'm confident. I feel good about things. Mark England gave me a high five. Yeah, that guy's the man. I'm buying the whole pro-cabulary course for all of our staff members. We've got a coupon code for you. Perfect.

Me and my wife watch it together, which is really valuable, by the way. Yeah, I believe that. I believe that. Even going back, though, to the conversation, I'm sorry to derail, but just back to the conversation you had with your daughter, because that kind of gave me chills a little bit, because communication, again, is sort of my thing, and it's what I've studied and what I try to do and everything that I do for work and the fact that

that kind of rational conversation and sincerely trying to understand how another person is feeling again it sounds very simple but that's kind of revolutionary and that that kind of conversation that you can have with a toddler is something that we should all be trying to apply I think more to our adult conversations too right for sure I mean it's it's a conversation I have with a toddler is something that we should all be trying to apply, I think, more to our adult conversations too, right? For sure. I mean, it's a conversation I have with my wife about the way that we communicate. She's pregnant now and she hasn't been into fitness her whole life. And she wanted to do one of those beach body programs while she was pregnant because they market it well. And I was like, look, babe, I don't think that's going to work. I think you're wasting your time.

And she's like, well, this, this, this, this, this, and this. And I was like, okay, fine, fucking buy it. Like, I don't care then, buy it. And then she got upset. I'm like, what are you upset about? I told you this is what I thought, this is why I thought it, and you decided you still wanted it? What am I supposed to do?

And then I started you know giving some thought to why that happens because i don't want to make my wife upset and what i landed on was when i become frustrated i become dismissive so when i become dismissive she feels dismissed and that doesn't make her feel good so i apologized to her and I said, this is, this is how I feel when these things happen. And when I feel that way, I have a harder time controlling my language and my emotions. And if possible, I'm going to try it myself, but I would appreciate it also if you could point it out to me in the moment so that I can take a step back and look at it and change it right away.

Yeah. That's so much patience with yourself. Well, I've been the asshole for so long. Yeah. I know about that one, too. Me and my wife, as a process, we're talking through things. We always go from objective facts to how it makes us feel to what was the unmet need that caused the negative feelings to arise to brainstorming potential solutions and then picking one of the solutions. Can you repeat that? Damn.

Yeah. Objective facts to what negative feelings arise from those objective facts to what is the unmet need that caused the negative emotion to what are potential solutions to fix the unmet need. That's cool. That's our process. I like that. It works really well.

How often does that happen? How often do you hold the phone? We're in the middle of friction. Let's talk about this. Well, a lot of times, if we're right in the middle of an argument, we typically don't try to jump into it right then. We'll try and take a break and come back to it. But isn't it kind of easier to have these like super civilized um you know well thought out conversations when you aren't in the heat of

an actual disagreement like it's one thing to to sit down and we're sitting down to dinner and it's like okay let's have a conversation about something that we generally have friction over but you're not feeling emotional it's almost like it's a different uh thing entirely right it's because you don't have you're not charged the same way. I'm right there with you. Like my wife wants to do it on Friday night date nights. I don't always want to do it. That kind of throws a wrench in the date night.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm like, no, like I don't want to like bring up at the beginning of the date night. But like, but yeah, I think you're right. Like having, having it like scheduled,

like, hey, there's a thing I want to talk about. Like after kids go to bed, let's talk about this thing. Then you can do it because you're not like in the heat of the moment. In the heat of the moment,

I don't think works as well. You certainly could, but I choose not to. But ideally, would you want to get to the point where you can, I mean, I guess we're all human and that we can minimize the friction and the hurt feelings and the issues? I think it depends on who you're talking to. So for me, yeah, I want to know right away. And you can tell me as straightforward as you possibly can because that's how I want to hear it. For my wife, for example, she needs a second. And she'd rather be asked questions than told facts. So I think it depends on who you're talking to and when.

I think where people fall short is like the feeling component that I just mentioned. People always say you got to talk about your feelings. Well, if you're angry, you want to say like, I'm angry for all these reasons. I feel bad, bad, bad, bad, negative, negative, negative. You're talking about your feelings because you're angry in that moment. And they don't shift to the unmet need piece. Once you can discover what the unmet need is, then now you're framing things in the positive. How do I get this need for connection or this need for excitement or whatever it is? How do I get that need solved?

And then that's where your brainstorming solution is based on how do I fix this thing framed in the positive rather than how do i not be angry yeah i think it's also i mean these are just universal principles though like when you talk to coaches or you talk to people that are in the gym even if they're athletes every it's easier to focus on that negative emotion right off the bat it's like well why aren't you charging your clients more uh they don't really want to pay for that it's like oh you don't value your own services, and it's costing you money, and now you're unhappy about this. They value the price you're charging, not the value you provide. And have you ever heard the four agreements? Yeah.

I've heard of it. I don't really know it, though. So there's – I mean, it's an easy read. It's like a day or two. Do you ever, like, when someone names a book and you haven't read it, you're like, maybe that was, like, the one. That was the book I missed. Is that, like, the core book that I needed? Yeah. It's like a j names a book and you haven't read it, you're like, maybe that was like the one. That was the book I missed. Is that like the core book that I needed? Yeah.

It's like a jillion self-help books in my shelf. I'm like, oh, I forgot that one. I've never had that thought. How many pages is that? Is it on audio? But so The Four Agreements is a chapter where he talks about never taking things personally. Because if you do, it essentially means that you find truth in it and that you have no choice to change it.

And it's the idea that if you think you're handsome and you're walking on the sidewalk and some stranger was like, you're ugly, man. You'd be like, okay, cool. Have a great night. Where if someone was like, hey, you're ugly.

And you were like, you know what? I let myself go a little bit and I don't like the way I looked. And maybe you take it personally in that moment because you find truth in it. Yeah. I think coaches really struggle with this. And I think one of the hardest things that they get into when they're trying to take that next step in their career or really turn this thing into, they have a hard time finding the people that they actually want

to be working with and i think one of the reasons is they don't actually know what they want to do or who they want to help and if you were to ask them they're like oh i just want to be a coach well okay and i think part of you want to help? What are you doing? And they don't actually, they can't answer these basic questions of, if you have this framework, I'd like to help this person. Well, then we can find somebody that actually has enough money to help you get there. So another book, and I'm not a big reader. I'm coming across like a big reader, but you know. Audiobooks make you sound. But I've read these two. What a week.

We don't need to say, just let people believe it. Yeah. Blue Ocean Strategy. Yes, I have that one. So the idea of that book was profound to me. It changed everything. And the idea is you don't want to compete. You want to find a space that's not being played in and play there. So the four questions that come out of that become,

what problem do you solve? How do you solve it what is your process why are you uniquely fit to solve that problem and then all you need to know is who has it so you can go get them and solve it for them and i think that the the reason why so many coaches have a hard time with that is three reasons actually one they don't know that they're supposed to be doing that and and they think that when they say, you know what, you want to be an Olympic swimmer? I don't really know anything about swimming. I probably can't help you.

They don't want to pass up that opportunity and that client. Two is you have to be really good. You have to really be good at solving that one problem. You can't just say, okay, I'm the geriatric guyiatric guy like cool well what makes you suited to be the geriatric i like old people that doesn't work you have to you have to have something to back it with and the last thing about it is i think that too many people in coaching it's a it seems like they feel like it's a young space yeah right like you look around and most coaches are like 20 to 30, in CrossFit especially.

And the problem with that becomes that, have you ever heard the expression, learn it in your 20s, master it in your 30s and 40s, enjoy it in your 50s? Yeah. So I hope to enjoy it sooner than that. But everyone is trying to master, enjoy, and learn at the same time in their 20s yeah and

i think that's that's well a lot of the people get into coaching mainly just because they're athletes and they want a free gym membership right they bought a job and then the gym owner says who's the most qualified and who moves the best and who actually is studying these lifts to keep people safe and they go well we'll hire that person so whose fault is it that the gym owner is hiring somebody that doesn't really want to be a professional coach or whatever it is or is it are we blaming the the coach because all they really want to do is work four classes a day and go train three hours no i think we blame the industry as a whole we blame the people who are willing to pay for that we blame the people i mean we blame ourselves you know we whole. We blame the people who are willing to pay for that. We blame the people. I mean, we blame ourselves.

You know, we've all been a part of it. At least I've been a part of it. Yeah. I hired multiple of those people. The problem is, you know, if you can get perceived fitness for $25, why would you ever pay $100? Yeah. We're talking a lot about coaches and how they can um differentiate themselves and how they can start to kind of figure out their place in this space but from an individual who

wants to find a coach and we just started kind of talking about that what are some tips or some ways for people to seek out somebody who's going to be quality and informed and thoughtful and specific to what my goals are? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think that the way to best do that is to first and foremost know what your goals are. And what I mean by that is if you walk into a gym and they're like, what are you looking to do? And you're like, I'm looking to lose 20 pounds. And they say, cool, we can help you with that. They've already started by asking, they haven't asked any questions. They don't know why you want't asked any questions. They don't know why you want to lose 20 pounds. You don't know why you want to lose 20 pounds. And how did you choose 20?

Why not 19 or 21? So to me, it's really do some deep diving on yourself and discover what problem you actually want solved. If you want to lose 20 pounds, is it because you want to look better for the beach so that you can be more secure walking around town is it because you're i had a patient one time who literally said she you know she gets back pain when she runs i said okay why do you want to be able to run well i i want to lose 20 pounds cool why do you want to lose 20 pounds well because you know i looked different when i was 20 pounds lighter just felt better about myself like okay but why 20 why not 19 why not 21 why not 30 why not 10 i don't know i never really thought about it okay well why lose weight at all like i think you're a beautiful woman why lose weight at all and we got to the place where she started to cry and she said the beach is

coming you know we live in a beach town and every year i wear a big t-shirt when i go to the beach is coming. We live in a beach town. And every year I wear a big t-shirt when I go to the beach and I've been telling my daughter that mommy's just cold. And my daughter's getting too old to believe that. And I don't want her to model her behavior after mine. I want to look the way I want to look for the summertime. And I said, great.

That I can help you with. It's like the five whys, right? It's like keep digging, keep digging, keep asking why until they give you the real answer. Yeah, but also be ready to meet them there. I can help you with. It's like the five whys, right? It's like keep digging, keep digging, keep asking why until they give you the real answer. Yeah, but also be ready to meet them there. You know, I've heard that done

by people who have no idea how to have the conversation once we reach the deep one and then it's just awkward. Yeah. Like if you just start saying why. I just bared my soul

and you have nowhere to take this. Right. Like if she starts crying and she's like, I want to be better for my daughter. You're like, oh shit, I can't deal with this.

Or it's like, cool, well, we can help you with that. And then you never do anything related back to that innate need. Then you're not solving the problem. Then this though also gets into the territory of how much of personal training and coaching seems to be like psychology and mental health support. And that's a tricky area too, because of course coaches oftentimes are a source of support and sometimes a shoulder to lean on and someone who can kind of be objective about whatever your issues are. But how do you, how do

you balance that line between I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and I can't speak to some of these like deep rooted insecurity issues, but also it's's a it's a huge part of the coaching process like how do you balance that so at this point I'm probably in the bottom 50 percent in terms of ability as a coach on my own staff in terms of dealing with clients and taking care of them on a day-to-day basis I'm probably in the top one percent of communication and that's happened on purpose because what I find coaches try to do and anyone really tries to do in their profession is gain expertise, gain expertise, gain expertise, gain expertise, gain expertise. Instead of gain expertise, learn how to communicate that expertise. Gain expertise, learn how to communicate that expertise.

Gain expertise, learn how to communicate it. And expertise learn how to communicate it and what happens is you just end up being the smartest person who nobody wants to hear from yeah or or you're really smart and and you you physically don't know how to do anything else except that thing and now you're one of those savants yeah it's cool but like probably not gonna be where you want to be it's very true i can think of a number of very, very smart experts that I kind of wouldn't want to have on a podcast because I think everything would go directly over my head and it wouldn't be helpful.

So there's a concept that Seth Godin, I think, kind of coined, and it was just be remarkable. And when he said be remarkable, he didn't mean be outstanding. He meant be remarkable, be worth discussing. So when we have calls with new clients like if you want to be a one-on-one client with us we still turn away about 35 percent of people because we can't help them we get them to a physical therapist a chiropractor a coach wherever they need to be a doctor so when someone will say something to us like i have a bad

knee i was talking to doug about this a little bit before, they're used to people saying, oh, that sucks. And the first thing that I'll ask them is not to say that ever again. Because if you say it over and over and over to yourself, you begin to believe it. And if people said, you know, if you went to the dinner and you were reading a menu and you were like, ah, I'm so stupid, Ashley, you're so stupid. You can't even read.

Eventually, your friends would be like, dude, you got to change that or I can't be around you anymore. But they tolerate I have a bad knee because it's just societally accepted. If you flip that to I haven't figured out how to solve my knee problem yet, all of a sudden you're where Doug was talking about in that emotional conversation with your wife where you're being constructive and you're looking for solutions in a positive way so when you're working with your coaches are you kind of on these group calls and really focused on the language that they're using in there and are you when that happens if somebody is kind of being the downer or bringing negativity and is not changing are you asking them to remove themselves from your kind of that circle because that i have noticed anytime that somebody is constantly bringing that negativity it is like a cancer in your life like it will just ruin

everything like anytime they show up or come into the gym it's not just like oh you're having a bad day nobody wants to take that class nobody wants to be around that person and it really like Anytime they show up or come into the gym, it's not just like, oh, you're having a bad day. Nobody wants to take that class. Nobody wants to be around that person. And it really smashes the culture of your gym or wherever you're at, whatever business it is. So there's a few. It gets a little bit more complicated than that for me because the first thing I look at is what could I do better to have that person want more to be in that call, on that job? Are they in the right seat?

You know, we have people on our staff. I actually let go our busiest coach. Like he had the most clients of anybody on our staff. But we had the magic wand talk with my staff. Where would you like to be if you could be anywhere from this career. And I didn't feel confident that I could get him to where he wanted to be and do it doing the kind of work that he wanted to do for the company. So instead of waiting until that resentment formed, instead of waiting until there was a situation that had to be solved,

we just agreed not to continue at all. And that's a conversation I have with all of my staff members every year. Then we talk every month as a group, and I talk to them individually almost weekly. Yeah. And the idea is, yeah, look, if we've discussed why you're being the negative person and I haven't been able to make the change that you need in the company

and it's now costing me too much energy and taking away from other things, then you've got to go. When you had your gym, was this a big part of it? No. If I could go back in time. Oh, stop it. We all, yeah. But I believe if I could go back in time, I would have hired differently. I would have messaged differently.

The gym didn't really solve any problems in particular. It was just a place to come get fit. I would like the opportunity to go back and say, listen, this is the kind of person that we want to help. This is the process we're going to go through to help them. We're not going to take

the wrong person. I don't think I ever turned somebody away from the gym. I know you sold your gym and you left and kind of had a partner and all that fun stuff. And then you're kind of like in this, it was a really weird space for me when I sold mine because then I had to decide what the hell I wanted to do. I felt like opening a gym for me was like,

I'm supposed to do this. I love working out. There's no CrossFit gyms near me. I'm the only one in the space that really knows anything about it. I've been doing it longer than everyone. Of course I'm going to open a gym. And then I left.

And then I had to figure out what the hell I wanted to do. How did that process go for you in leaving the gym and then kind of like where we're at now? Sean Clear's over there filming all this kind of stuff and we're at now. Yeah, so, you know, I mean, Sean Clear's over there filming all this kind of stuff, and he's been front row seat for... He's been documenting it?

I mean, no, thank God. Breakdown? Essentially, though, for me, railroading three separate distinct partnerships. You know, the first one was with one of my good friends growing up. He's a groomsman at my wedding. I was a groomsman at his, and we no longer speak because we, we just, we didn't see eye to eye about the way the gym should go. And that spilled over into our personal lives. Now I've since called and apologized to him for not communicating well when we were in

business together, but we're not going to be friends in the future. It's just not going to happen. That's okay. The second time was we had an event company. And I, again, I wasn't seeing eye to eye with my business partner and it was, there's too much tension here. It just doesn't work. We still get along. We still talk, but that business didn't work for me. Then in the clinic, in the gym, it was, you know, Dr. Jeremy who helped me build all this stuff out. And, you know, it didn't work out for us because the things I wanted were not the things out for us because the things i wanted were not the things that he wanted and the things i wanted were not the things that i wanted so anytime that i would do something in my direction it was a an invasion on the direction he wanted to go if you

will you know any any step i took in the direction i felt like the company needed to go without even necessarily realizing it until i was out of it was literally offensive to the way he wanted to go. Do you think that starting a business, uh, with a friend or maybe, I don't know, a part, you know, a life partner or whatever, like, do you think that that's kind of setting yourself up for additional difficulties in general? Maybe. So, so I'll answer that when I, I'll finish that and I'll I'll finish that and I'll come back to that. I had a lot of clarity when I left the gym. Yeah. It wasn't, you know, that was not a, I knew exactly what I wanted to do because I knew that when I wasn't doing it, I felt like

I was trying to swim wearing cement boots to get the company where I felt like the company needed to go. And I knew that when I was in the clinic, I felt like I had just driven a Ferrari into a river, you know, as opposed to driving at 200 miles an hour on the highway when I worked on this company. So it was really clear to me. I knew exactly what I felt like I needed to do. To answer your question. Well, what was that? Grow this thing.

Gotcha. And take massive action and take massive chances. And I wasn't willing to do that. It would have offended my partners previously too much for me to do that. When you go through three relationships like that and they don't work out, do you oddly come out of that with more confidence in your own vision? Yeah. I came out of that with a ton of

confidence in my vision because what I kept on saying was, God, they don't see it the way that I see it. And that means that a lot of people don't. And that means there's a lot of opportunity. Now, that being said, I wouldn't be where I am without any one of them. They all were extremely helpful to get me where I am. And the fear that I had coming out of it was actually the relationship with my wife, which was good. I'm like, all these relationships were good once, and I've blown them all. I don't want to blow this one. That one's important. So what I found, to answer your question, Ashley, is clarity of vision is the most important thing to

discuss with any kind of a partner in any kind of a relationship because now it's okay. Do you want to take these chances with me that we can do this thing together? Yes. Awesome. We can keep going back to that. If that ever changes, let's talk about it. So my wife and I talk about what kind of a life we want to live. What kind of, how much time do we want to spend together? What do we want to be doing during that time? What chances are we willing to take financially and socially with our lives? And this way there isn't the overstepping of baby, no, I have to do this for the business. And she's like, but it's ruining our life at home. We've discussed this stuff. I am taking a note of the time because i'm

coming back to this and listening to this when i sit down and have a conversation with my husband about whether or not we're gonna have kids i mean that's that's the kind of conversation what are you what are you willing to risk to do together to what kind of journey are you willing to go on together be clear well so what we're working on now is everyone's got well most people who have successful businesses have a mission statement for the business. What I learned back in April from my mentor is I need a mission statement for my life, my personal life. What I learned even more recently, I hired, my wife and I hired a relationship therapist just so that we don't end up in a bad place. Things are good and we want to keep things good.

We want to get them better. We need a mission statement for our relationship like what are we going to do and we put all that stuff together now we have what our life is supposed to look like i've done that with my wife before as well what we did was we both independently wrote our own separate visions and then line by line we created we called it a shared relationship vision so line by line, we created, we called it a shared relationship vision. So line by line for mine, I read a line, said, do you like that one? Yes, no. If it was yes, we'd put it in the shared relationship vision. If it was no, it would stay on mine.

And then we did the same thing with hers. And then we had only the lines from each of our independent visions that were on the shared relationship vision. Then we kind of wordsmithed it and then went back through all the ones that were left on each of our independent visions and said are these deal breakers if we wordsmith then could we put them in and then we ended up with a shared relationship vision that where both sides me and her both felt like 100 completely heard where it wasn't just like discussing our vision and that that process worked really really well for us to get completely on the same page and it was night and day with our relationship before and after doing that process.

Do you have like a rubric that you followed for that? Because I'll be honest with you. Our struggle is, okay, well, where do I start? Like do I start by throwing the house on the water on my side of the board? Do I start with throwing like having a live-in nanny and a chef? Like where does that start start so do you have a rubric that you used to develop like a template yeah yeah uh we we do we we broke it down by category so it wasn't like super in-depth it was it was like lifestyle um sexuality finances um

you know health etc and i don't remember the the exact ones but there's about eight of them in the in those types of categories just so we made sure that that vision was comprehensive on both sides. And then, and then we pieced it together. I would love it. If you would share that with me, I totally can. You guys are really impressive.

The, the amount of like proactive relationship work, you guys like all of hearing all this, I'm like, I, me and my husband give each other a lot of high fives. I don't know. I don't think you,

I don't know. I mean, I'm only a five months into the kid thing, but yeah, I don't feel like any of it was necessary until I had kids. And when we were non-kid, it was like, what are you doing today? I'm going to do this. What are you doing today?

See you later. I'm going to do this. Cool. Let's do this together later. Awesome. I'm going to the beach. We're going to go surf. I got all this free time.

That is basically. It doesn't exist anymore. So you have to go back. And I feel like these are just core principles of what makes things successful. Like, why are we doing it? That's a mission statement. Where's it going? That's a vision. Okay. What are the principles that we're going to get to this thing? And how are we going to start implementing some sort of operations into our house? It's all a business plan. I think that people don't, one of the most beautiful things about going into business or having a business,

maybe one that's successful is that you start to understand how all the pieces start to flow together. There's not much different than your business and your marriage. Kids are going to add a ton of stress to it, just like competition. There's a gym opening down the street. Are we really solid in our gym's mission statement

and how are we providing value to this thing? The kids just add, the kids, just the new widget that showed up so you realized, oh shit, there's a lot of holes and now I've got a lot of stress and now I've got a lot of lack of sleep. My sex life just changed a lot because a kid just came

and no one's sleeping and now we've got some things to really talk about. But it seems to me what you're telling me is that it would be pretty smart on our behalf to start doing this stuff before the widgets

come in and take up all of our time. If you can start it before you need it, 100%. It's like exercising before you end up being radically unhealthy. I think it's just hard to understand what is coming. You can listen to us talk about this as three dudes and be like, what the fuck happened to my life? But you don't

really know. But if you can have like a, just an idea of like, what are the, what are the core values of our family? And sitting down and doing that stuff is really cool. I love your idea. Like I'm totally on board. I think that's a great idea. If you're, if you're digging the process piece, like the, the first model that I laid out of the objective facts, the feelings, the unmet need, and then the solutions, there's,

there's a piece in between the unmet needs and the solutions that I think is really key. And you can use this with business partners or anyone else. So I lay out the objective facts, whatever happened. Like, oh, I slept with half the women's soccer team. Objective fact. Check. Right? And that made me feel really bad.

Dr. Nick, it sounds like an expert quote right now. I feel so bad about that. It felt good, but it also felt bad. So in between, after you say the unmet need, you've laid out the facts. You've laid out your feelings. You've laid out the unmet need. Then the other person who isn't talking while you're explaining all this stuff repeats back to you exactly what you said in your words. Not what they think, like not with their perception of it or they're not paraphrasing.

Like just like here's what you said just to make sure that they heard exactly what you said. And then you can say, yes, that's what I said or no, that's not actually what I said. I don't think you heard me quite correctly. And then after you say, yes, that's what I said, then the other person says, okay, anything else. And then you get to go through the whole thing again if you want to until the person who started with the facts, the feelings, the unmet needs says, that's it. I have said everything I want to say. I'm 100% complete. Then you can brainstorm solutions. You can't sell something to someone if they don't trust you. And if they don't feel understood because you're not listening to them, they're not buying anything. Whether it's like an idea,

let's go watch a movie together, or whether it's like buy this Porsche or whatever it is, no one's going to buy from you if they don't feel heard and understood. So by getting all the way complete, that's the only way you're really going to get to a solution. There's also a piece when you do these things and you're putting it and you're writing it down, it takes the emotion out of it because you've talked to it. You can only be angry or mad for like X amount of times until you have to turn it into a complete thought. And then it's a complete thought. And now it's almost like external of you. Now it's just your idea of what happened. And now

you're staring at that idea, which is over there and out of your brain. And now you can objectively start to analyze like, why did this happen? And I think that that's the part that so many coaches so many business owners whatever it is have a really hard time with is my results and then they they are unable to objectively view their own actions to change them modify them to actually move forward to get where they want to be well I think that to not be proactive is to be reactive and to be reactive takes away all of your control you know if if somebody comes at you in a bar and throws a punch at you you have to react you you you're not in control of the situation somebody else is already pissed off enough that they're going to come and get you yeah if you sense that you might have done something to piss somebody off

maybe going over and apologizing for pissing them off, even if you didn't do it on purpose is a bigger win than beating them up in the bar and getting arrested. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's,

it's like, I don't know. But to make this real for a coach, you know, there's, there's the person in your gym who you just think is not coachable. You know, you think about it and you're like, like oh my god that person in the corner is so annoying she's still doing single unders four years later and she hasn't snatched a barbell right ever she's so uncoachable and the question you need to be asking yourself is why have you had a hard time

communicating with that person the importance of doing the things that you need her to do? Is it possible that she doesn't value what you value, isn't there for the reasons that you like her to be there? Now you can stop being frustrated with her and recognize that this isn't going to work because we were never meant to work together. Shrug family, make sure you get over to 30daysofcoaching.com. T-H-I-R-T-Y, daysofcoaching.com.

I have compiled six years of content into 30 days. The best interviews, the best articles, the best content creators we've ever had on the show, giving you the best advice, technique wads, Olympic lifting, weight loss, muscle gain. You name it, it's in there. 30 days delivered right to your inbox. 30daysofcoaching.com, the number one source for getting all of the education you need. And 30 days delivered right to your email, 30daysofcoaching.com. Also, make sure you get over to The Strong Coach.

All of you coaches out there looking to take your job and your career to the next level. We have the program for you. We are launching the strong coach. We've been in beta testing for the last six months with coaches. The results are phenomenal. You're going to make more money. You're going to be a better person. People are going to be attracted to you. You're no longer going to be in survival mode wondering when you're going to get your next client, how you're going to make sure you keep that client. People will be attracted to you versus having to force yourself to go out

and seek the people and hope that they pay you. You will become the coach and trainer that you have always wanted to be. Get over to thestrongcoach.com. Schedule a call with our head coach, Danny Rios. He's been through the program himself. He's got hundreds of people that have gone through this program and people love it. The strongcoach.com. Back to the show. Her problem though, was that she was huge and awesome before uh we're talking about it oh yeah hold on accepted women so she was a gangster muay thai fighter her problem was really really good yeah she was she was good and she was hot and then chris cyborg kind of murdered everyone once

you got into mma yeah has continued to murder everyone since your story though how did you meet her? Well, no, back before women's MMA was really big, she was, like, one of the first, like, people that they were trying to use to, like, skyrocket women's MMA. And so, like, one of the first, like, I think it was Showtime. It was the Lead XC event that was in South Haven, Mississippi. And it was, like, the first, like, primetime, you know,

7 o'clock in the evening Showtime live women's MMA event. And it was a really first like prime time, you know, 7 o'clock in the evening, showtime, live women's MMA event. And it was a really, really good fight. But the day before, she was in town because I was living in Memphis, which is really close to South Haven, Mississippi, and she was training at the place that I train for MMA. And there was a bunch of famous people there. Randall Couture was there, and Forrest Griffin was there, and Brandon Vera was there, and all these really awesome people.

But Gina was there. And I have no idea why this happened, but me and Andy, as we were walking out that night, like we walked out out and then right when we walked out gina carano like just like like flashes us her she had a sports problem but like but i don't know why she did it like like she's like she's super hot we walked out and she just like flashes for no apparent reason and we were just like like why did she want to make your day made my day a lot better though she did yeah i hope she can't hear us right now because we don't want to talk about her. She's super awesome.

But is there any doubt as to why Jen Widerstrom is Jen Widerstrom? Like, she comes over here and just smashes. Like, four minutes, smashes. I'm going to go back to my life over here. No big deal. Yeah. It's impressive. I love when people come over and you're like, oh, I get it.

I totally get it. That's why they picked you right off the bat. I saw it. Not everybody has a personality. Everyone's got it. She just found what made her special and made it hot. We're going to take it right back to the conversation that we were having. But I wonder, do you think that there's unlimited capacity and market for coaching and personal training?

And maybe this is just, again, maybe I spent too much time on Instagram, but I feel like everybody wants to be a coach now. Everybody wants to be a personal trainer. Do you think that there's enough room for everybody? There's not. There's enough room for everybody to do something. And I think that the reason why there's not enough room is because everybody does something. If the profession had to become professional, there would be enough room for everyone to be professional. The problem is right now if you want to charge $150 an hour or $3,000 for a case, for example.

And when I say a case, I mean we're going to achieve this outcome goal and then choose a new one. You can pay for that. That is unheard of because there's too many people who are willing to do it for 20 bucks an hour. So you have to be really good at what you do, really good at communicating what you do, and really good at selling what you communicate, which are three totally different skill sets. Yes. And ideally, swimming in a blue ocean, as you said earlier. Yes.

That's where there becomes room. As you can create new categories to go into, if you start with just fitness, and everyone was just selling fitness, there's a lot of people. But then, okay, now I do bodybuilding. There's only so many people in bodybuilding. I do CrossFit. There's only so many people in CrossFit. Then you can keep going more niche, niching further and further and further down.

I'm the CrossFit guy that deals with people with shoulder pain. Okay, well, now that's even a smaller subset. I'm the CrossFit person that deals with people that have low back injuries. Now that's another subset. So the more you can niche down, the easier it is to find a target market. Yeah, well, I mean, look at Aaron Horschug. You know, squat university. Only squats.

How much is there to cover in a squat that 600 and something thousand people care about it? Crushed it. Six years worth. Yeah. I mean, every day. And he does a great job. And he's delivering really high quality information. And it's because he niched down and he breaks down one movement in the most impressive way

possible that people go nuts for it. I think one of the things that's interesting about something like that is if you were to ask your regular coach, well, how do you teach a squat? They would give you their playbook, like hips back, knees out, squeeze your butt, nice, now you're good. And they've got like three things in their checklist. And you could substitute squat for any movement or anything, really. It's just the widget.

And he's done it for six years every single day. You become very creative, like just focusing on that one thing. You have to force, there's like a learning curve to the creativity and how you present it and the number of ways in which you can coach that specific movement. And I think that that is something that people get really scared of. They're like, oh, well, I already covered that. Well, how do we present it to maybe a mom? Well, that's a different story. How do we present it to a CrossFitter? That's a different story. How do we present it to a powerlifter? And that's, if you can just take the squat and present it a million different ways to a million different people you become the master

of that thing for an entire group but nobody really thinks that they're like i need to be great at all of the fitnesses well why don't you just master one thing and be able to tell that story how it can help all the people and you need to be comfortable just repeating yourself yeah saying the same thing over and over in the the case of Aaron, say 600,000 followers. Well, if he says the same thing that he said today that he said last year, well, maybe he has 200,000 extra people that are hearing that that didn't see it last time. So it's okay to repeat yourself as well. Well, and the other thing is if you asked his 600,000-something followers, hey, what did Aaron post about last year? They don't remember.

And it's not because they're not paying attention. It's because we don't retain all the information that we see. It would be impossible. It's valuable to say the same thing over and over again. You want to know what I know about Dr. Sean Pastuch? He is the owner and founder of the only company

helping thousands of people train without doctors. Is that right? Only company helping thousands of people train without doctors. Is that right? Only company helping thousands of people to get out of pain without going to the doctor. They're so close. You should say it more. Can you talk a little bit about how once a coach does have their specialty and they can communicate it and understand it well, how they can market it?

Because I feel like there are people out there that are gaining following and gaining attention for maybe cheaper, less sincere way of marketing. And then there are people who have a lot of value that just don't know how to communicate it out into the world. So besides just knowing your thing and being sincere and genuine about it, what else can you do to get your message out there to the people who need it? I mean, one of the most valuable things that we did and not to get his head big was make sure that Clearoo is with us full time. You know, we have media who is covering everything that we do. If you can't find somebody who believes in what you're going to do enough to create some kind of a partnership early on, and you can't afford to pay what it would cost to

have somebody good do the job, spend at least 50 50 of your time making sure that the way you document it tells the story you if you're not documenting it it didn't happen it's the old joke of if you're if you didn't pr it on instagram pictures or it didn't happen yeah and and and it seems crazy but i learned something um one of the coaches who i hired to help me one time is a guy named Vince Del Monte. And Vince talked about if you call it social media, it's going to use you. If you call it business media, you're going to use it. And the concept that I got out of that when I looked into more in-depth stuff was your feed when you're on social media, that's the windows to the store. People come and look at the window. Oh, I like what's there. That's cool. That's a nice shirt.

Nobody buys at the window. That's the story. If you want them to walk inside the store and talk to the salesperson, that's your story. That's where you need to be approachable. That's where you need to show the process, to do the things that are less professional looking that explain to people this is what's happening day to day that makes them feel like they know like and trust you then you can sell people the solutions that they need well then what's the next step if they're just looking in the window and how are they actually going to like what what is your message or what how do the coaches take that and get to the next step of clicking the link in the bio to find out where they can find you or whatever that process? Yeah, it's, in my opinion, the way we've done it is it's being remarkable in the feed.

As Seth Godin would say, just be remarkable. And then in the story, being really honest and providing real value about what you're doing on a day-to-day basis. And then ask people if they want to come on the ride. You know, Craig Ballantyne has a great schedule. He talks about if you're a business coach, on Mondays you talk about motivation. You motivate people, inspire people on Monday. Tuesday you make it tactical, which you give them something that they can actually do today. On Wednesdays you give them something that they can actually do today. On Wednesdays, you give them some wisdom.

On Thursdays, you give them something that you wish you knew in the past. A throwback Thursday, I wish I knew this five years ago. On Friday, you talk about the freedom that you have. On Saturday, you talk about the status that you have. And on Sunday, you give them forgiveness for not hitting their goals during the week. And you give them plans for next week. And every day, Monday through Saturday, you're looking for calls to action.

Those calls to action don't have to be, hey, buy now, hey, buy now. And I've heard you talk about, and I love it, I have four spots available, awesome. I have a million spots available, and you're right. It's not about saying I have spots available. It's about saying things like, one of the things I like to do is is the most successful sequence that I've ever seen in the Instagram is I get DMs all the time of people who say,

Hey, you turned me down as a client. You sent me to this doctor's office. I got these results. Thank you so much. Screenshot. Put it in the story. We turn away 35% of people who come to us. Everybody talks to us first.

Are you interested in finding out if you'd be a good candidate to get out of pain without going to the doctor or missing the gym? Yeah. Vote in the poll. Click yes or yes, and we'll reach out to you. And then 300 people will vote yes. And then all I got to do is go through and write, hi, Anders. I saw that you voted yes in the poll. What problem are you trying to solve?

Wow. Did everybody write that down? Yeah. We got to listen to this back. We recorded it. We're good. It'll come back. But it's such a safe way for people to do it.

And if I send it out to 300 people, maybe 200 of them respond to the message that I sent to them. Because 100 of them just voted in a poll because it's like the reaction. But if I go through and I see that there's all these people who voted yes, you know, our company is now big enough where I don't have to do that. Yeah. I still do it. So if you're a personal trainer or if you're writing program people online, you're certainly not above that. Do it once a week. Yeah.

I mean, one of the hardest things people. Do it once a week. Yeah. One of the hardest things people do is actually finding real leads. Yes. So here's the thing. One of the bigger problems is people don't even know what a lead is. That's true. If you're running an Instagram account that you want to generate business

for you, you have to be a trustworthy person about what it is that you sell on your Instagram account. You can't look at my kids, look at this dog, look at how much I drank last night, buy my program. Like that doesn't work. You also can't be just super fit and be like, buy my program, get fit like me. You didn't teach me anything, dude. You just have nice pecs. So it comes down to giving that value over and over and over and over again, creating, I love the Craig Ballantyne talks about creating that people getting used to having a call to action, which could be voting in a poll. And you, he didn't teach me the poll thing afterwards,

but now it's, oh, they're used to voting. Why wouldn't they vote when they see my poll? I'm not going to be the one who they're looking at on the toilet who they're just like swipe right swipe right swipe right swipe right you know you you set people up to be comfortable enough to interact with you you make it so that they have a lose win which means that if you can't help them you still help them in a different way than they want to do they have nothing to lose yeah i man social media is so wild because well one i think the pr people not the public relations the the people that are out there with the shirts off deadlifting a lot of weight um i immediately thought about the people deadlifting i thought i didn't think i thought public relations did you're talking to me i'm glad i can i'm glad i handled that um

that works for some people, doesn't it? But then sometimes when I'm like, so our cameraman back in San Diego, he runs also a teacher company. And he's like, you'd be amazed at how many of these influencers convert zero of their people. Well, because the other thing is it's laziness. It's I have a following. I'm going to say buy this. And they're going to. Hopefully 1% happens. And it doesn't. craziness it's i have a following i'm gonna say buy this and they're going hopefully one percent

happens and it doesn't and and the thing is it's about being willing to have the conversation without asking for a sale when there's not a sale to be asked for yeah it's it's it's you can't only interact when you're selling something and if you just say yes to everybody who wants it then you're not actually doing the investigations of your problem solving. Did you see the latest kind of piece about social media that influencers are over now and it's back onto micro influencers? So people aren't, companies aren't trying to get the people who have 250,000 followers that are just posting pictures of their pretty bodies and saying, sell my skinny T. Now they're going to people who have, you know, 500 to 1,000 followers, but maybe those followers are real people that they're interacting with

that maybe are in their community and they're, you know, starting smaller. It does, but I think they're going to take a bath too because what's going to happen is those people don't know how to sell. One of the things that we're planning to do next year, and I'll let the cat out of the bag, is we're going to launch an ambassador program. And part of it is going to be, first of all, you have to have done our stuff.

You can't just buy this when you know nothing about it. And we're going to invite all of them for free to come to where it'll either be in New York or in Idaho. What's in Idaho? My partner. So they'll come to one of the two places in new york or in idaho um what's in idaho my partner okay so they'll

they'll come they'll come to one of the two places caught everyone off guard they'll come to new york or boise and we're gonna book that trip we'll spend two days teaching them how to use their social media to sell so that these people will actually have the opportunity not to make 50 bucks a month 100 bucks a month where it's like an afterthought and they're just bombarding people with here click my link because we're not giving them a discount code we don't need to discount it it works um so we're going to teach them how to sell we're going to turn them into professional sales people as much as we can in two days that's cool that's wild i why is sales especially in our industry i mean i think i kind of got to it a

little bit uh at the before before the break at the early beginning of the show in fitness sales feels like a really bad word like every business runs on sales but it's almost like as soon as you ask somebody for help or you want to hire a personal trainer, how many people come up to you and they're like, hey, can you just tell me how to like fix my elbow? A lot of people. And you're like, wait a second. I spent my whole life trying to fix your elbow or like learning how to fix it. And now you just want me to just sell you.

There's a few things to that. One is that's unique, I think, to CrossFit. It's not – like if you go work at Equinox, no one's like, hey, can you coach me for free, man? No, that doesn't happen. I'm $120 an hour and you're going to go buy 24 right now. That's what happens there. Now, there are still people who are uncomfortable asking for it because they perceive, in my opinion, the perception is I'm asking you to do something

that you really don't want to do you really don't want to part with that money that comes from a position of not having money of selling yourself and most personal trainers when they start off it's out of high school out of college they don't have any money so the thought of paying somebody three hundred dollars a week for two or three sessions is like, you're out of your fucking mind. That is my livelihood for people who are going to be buying that. That is not their livelihood. And you don't, by the way, have to be wealthy to do that. You don't have to be wealthy to pay $300 a month for one-on-one coaching remotely. It's, it has to be a priority. You have to believe that the value is greater than the cost so i think that it comes down to if you're uncomfortable

asking for the money you're you have to look at if your value that you're creating is worth it because if if you were saving people's lives every time you did something i'm not talking about proverbially i'm talking about that person was dying you shook their arm the way you shake somebody's arm to save their life and they lived and you saw somebody dying they had some time yeah right just enough time to pay and you were and you were like look it's gonna be 10 grand i'm gonna shake your arm you're gonna live another 20 years and they're like oh no dude can you bring it down it's like good i'm definitely i'm going to save your life totally saving you right like i'm going to shake your arm and you're going to live yeah you don't feel so bad about asking for it anymore yeah you lit some kid up on call in college the other day on online and

made me laugh um he wrote you and he was like i'd love to work with you i'd love to learn this system but you know i'm in college and i don't really have the money. And you were like, dude, you could go get a job. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could, like, go deliver pizza and $1,000 wouldn't be a big deal to you. But you're not doing shit but drinking. You are using your money to do a bunch of shit that doesn't serve what you'd like to be doing. I was like, oh, God. I'm glad I didn't reach out to him in college i didn't jump all the way there i went to you know hey do you

have a job no get one yeah um i'll go even further with that though we had a guy who came to one of our coaches courses our live in-person workshops cost him a thousand dollars,000. Then he bought our coach's immersion course, which is the course we were talking about earlier. He paid $2,000. He's a college kid. $3,000 in the hole now. And I think he was using his student loans. So it's not like he was asking mommy and daddy for money or he was

independently wealthy. He's a college kid who prioritized this. He ends up, in part because of the education that he got from us, landing a job as I want to say a GA at the school he's working at in the strength department. Awesome. Really, really, really cool. Remember, he's also bought a year of one-on-one coaching from us as a client, as a one-on-one athlete client, another $2,200 at the time. He sends me a message. Hey man, I know I'm six months into my program, but I just got this job and I'm not going to have the time to do that, to,

to prioritize this kind of training anymore. Could you prorate me a refund? And I said, got it. I said, no. And I'm going to tell you why. If I prororate you a refund you're going to allow the people who you want to serve to give you bullshit excuses for why they can't do what they need to do to get where they want to get and you're gonna let them off the hook so if i give you a refund right now i set you up to fail for the rest of your life. And he just wrote back, point taken, okay. Yeah. Well, what is like – yeah, man, it's tough. Mic drop.

The thing about the language thing, you're really good at like communicating to people. Well, not just you. Like when you learn language, people that accept like this is the normal way people are talking and then they learn or like the person that's better at communicating can always find a way to turn like what you did into a a we'll just call it a positive for no other for no other word but when you are really good at language, you find a way to shape things like that. Like that guy could talk to himself the way you let him know what his issue was. But so many people just get stuck in the way that they think.

And they can't break out of that. And why is it so hard for people to kind of just like find that next step? Like why can't they just break out of who the hell they are today to become like that next? I don't know if it was language so much as he was in it. That was him. He needed somebody who was objective to tell him like, look, dude, I'm not letting you off the hook,

so you can go let other people off the hook. I think it's all of that. It's language. It's also actually having the experience of both sides of that to be able to speak to it. It's understanding that it's not about you. Yeah. Right?

Like, why does this guy actually want out? And what is he going to lose if he leaves? It's all of those things. And the biggest thing, I think, and this wasn't the case for him, is I learned this from, I don't remember which coach it was but i've hired a multitude of coaches to help to shape my mind so i could be more successful and it was we all sell the same way that we buy and what that means is if if you allow somebody to say to you cool thanks for thanks for talking to me about that. I'm going to go talk to my wife and see if we can do it. And you let them leave. It's because you would want the opportunity to go talk to your wife. Now, there's nothing wrong with going and talking to your wife.

What I ask you to do is talk to your wife before you come and discuss what is this going to be worth or bring your wife with you. Be ready to make a commitment when it's time to talk. When people look to sign up with us, we send them our pricing before they even get on the phone. This is what it's going to cost. Please talk to your significant other or if there's someone else included in the buying decision so that you're prepared to make a commitment on the phone.

Yeah. You said you sell or you buy things the same way. Say that again. So you'll sell things the same way you buy things. So, for example. That's interesting. Well, the reason I wanted to say that is because I feel like I'm really hard. I don't want to buy anything.

When someone starts talking to me about it, I'm like, please, I'm going to slowly walk away from you. I don't think that's true. I think it's true about things you don't want or things you don't perceive that you need. Yeah, totally. But when I find the thing or the person that I want to buy something from, I'm like the first person to get upsold because I want everything that person is giving me. You start – you're buying that person's thing and you're like, you know what? Just give me all of it. I'll buy the upsell right away well so and how did so now when someone's looking to buy something from you do you not feel I mean

do you not feel comfortable selling the upsell I mean it's all automated online so I assume but but yeah like I'm totally cool with people but yeah so that's the we built it because we know we want people to buy it save the money yeah commit to the program do the whole year that's the point to make sense you should want to be a, do the whole year. That's the point. It's going to make sense. You should want to be a part of the program if we think they're great. Yeah, and that's exactly the point. You know, it's, again, you go back to the whole, you know, you're going to die if you don't do it.

If someone walked into your gym coach and they were pre-diabetic or they were diabetic and their doctor told them, look, you have to exercise or you're going to die, and they show up at your gym and you're like, look, our gym membership is 250 bucks a month. And I know for those of you listening, your gym membership is not $250 a month, but it should be. So let's say that your gym membership is $250 a month. And the person says to you, okay, I'm going to go home and ask my wife if it's okay. Are you going to let that person leave? Because what's going to happen is they're never coming back. Yeah.

And if they never come back and they don't end up finding another place to get fit, they're going to die just like their doctor told them they would. It's tough. But you're not doing them any favors. And the person you are doing the favor to is yourself because you're uncomfortable having that conversation. And now you get to avoid it. All this just comes like a lot of it is like getting comfortable having that hard conversation it's really hard for people that to be like you owe me 250 dollars for that gym membership it takes a lot of practice a lot of confidence in your product like i don't think a lot of people

have that because like that's a big step like I remember the very first time I asked somebody for $100 an hour for personal training, and in my gut I was like, man, I don't know if this is going to go well. But you do it, and then you get a yes, and you're like, I'm going to be rich. I'm so good. I am so good at this. I'm going to sell all of my time. Yeah. I'm going to sell all of my time. Yeah. I'm going to have eight of these people.

I remember being there too. When I was at Equinox, I was a Tier 1 trainer to start, and I would sell six packs at $65 a session because I didn't have the balls to ask for a 12 or a 24. By the time I was done, I was a Tier 3 trainer who wouldn't sell you anything less than a 12 or a 24. And it definitely took mentorship from my boss at the time. His name was Joshua Harrison.

It was great. He would talk about the idea that if this person really needs three sessions a week for eight weeks, for example, to get to their goal, and you allow them to train with you once a week because it's more comfortable for them financially what you're doing is you're stealing their money and not giving them the result that they want yeah so are you really being the nice guy or are you being the dick yeah well yeah i mean it's a really i remember the very first time you start doing this and finding people. How did you find or, I mean, you've mentioned multiple times the number of coaches that you've had.

The mentorship thing to me has been, like, probably one of the largest, like, things that has happened in my life. But how do you start looking for coaches and um i guess maybe like the the role that mentors have played in just you becoming confident in one selling them like memberships and personal training packages but now being one of those to other people okay that's a massive like just tell me everything yeah well well first of all as far as you know i know there's part of what we live what we left out before when i say we i mean i left it out even if you know you I know there's part of what we left out before when I say we, I mean I left it out. Even if you know you can provide the value, the idea of, well, why wouldn't you just shake that guy's arm for free if you can save his life? You're going to lose enthusiasm around doing things if your life sucks.

Yeah. Because you can't afford to have the freedom that you want in your life. So recognize that. I just want to get that out there. Now, as far as finding a mentor, one of my most valuable staff members, his name is Larry Geyer. Larry found me in a coffee shop in town. He was like, hey, you own that gym in town.

You're a chiropractor, right? I said, yes. He goes, I want to be more like you. I will do anything to intern for you. What do you want? And I was like, I don't really want an intern right now. Like, I don't even know what I would do with you. I don't know how I would use you, and it's just going to be more work.

He's like, well, how about if I figure out a way to make it so that it's less work? I'm like, sure, go to town. I was like, read this book, man. Start by reading this book. And I gave him a book to read read The Cell by Frederick Eklund and he read it and two days later he sees me in the coffee shop again

and he's like there's a chapter in the book that says find a superstar you want to be more like and do anything you can to be around them and now we're back where we started

because it's you and I want to spend more time with you I'm like fuck it's not going to go away what am I going to do I'm too awesome so I was like listen

that's fine I'm happy to have you around What am I going to do? I'm too awesome. So I was like, listen, that's fine. I'm happy to have you around. I just can't provide you any – like I'm not going to build a curriculum for you. I can't set time aside for you. You just have to gain knowledge by being in the room. Yeah. He's like, sure. So he started coming to the clinic every Friday in the morning for two and a half hours.

He's like, we're going to do this for eight weeks. I was like, cool. It's been four years. I talk to him every single day. Wow. And he's on my staff. It's his job to make sure that all of our one-on-one clients are happy and getting – he's calling every one-on-one client right now to ask them on a scale of one to five, where are we?

Yeah. And then to ask how on a scale of one to five where are we and then to ask how could we be an 11 which would mean that you're calling everybody who you know who could use us and telling them to sign up with us and being relentless about getting them to sign up what would we have to do what's the unrealistic problem that you want us to solve um and it all came from him being like hey how can i make your life better? Yeah. All I've ever wanted was people, and I actually found one recently, but all I've really ever wanted as an employer

is to have employees that just wanted to be really good at something. And most of the time, they would be in the gym, and I'd be like, can you just find a hole? What makes you unhappy about what we're doing here? And can we talk about how to solve it? And let's have that be your job. But instead it's like, tell me what to do. Tell me what to do. It could literally be, Hey, if it's cool with you, I'd like to come to your office every day and take out the trash in exchange for sitting in the room that you're in for an hour a day.

And it starts with something that simple. You're taking out the trash. You're already there. Why don't you clean the bathroom while you're at it? You know, like, you don't have to be told. Why don't you make the person who owns the place's life better and easier? Yeah. Our super awesome social media girl, she was like,

do you mind if I move to San diego to be closer to you guys and i was like you're gonna uproot your life after college and move to san diego to do what she's like intern with you it's like oh god what do i do now it sounds like common sense though like you know make that person's life easier offer something to the potential mentor but it isn't something that comes to a lot of people's minds they're thinking thinking, I need a mentor. I'm going to reach out to this impressive person and be like, here's an opportunity for you to teach me the next wave of successful people. They don't even think this has to be a give and take. Yes, I want to learn from you, but I have to give you something too. People don't think about that. Well, and even when they do, they don't realize that the give that they're providing

is I need to create a job description for you. And I need to figure out what in my company I want to take from someone who's being paid to do it really well and give it to you and take a chance with it. And that's something that people who want to intern for people can really learn and take to heart is you don't have to be interning doing the thing that you want to ultimately be doing. Be in the presence. And over time, you'll gain the trust if you're trustworthy and you're gaining it on purpose. You'll gain the trust and then you can learn more practice.

How do you even see yourself anymore? Because you're clearly not really. I mean, you are a chiropractor by trade. You're like a gym owner, personal trainer. But none of this we've talked about. I mean, in the last showiropractor by trade. You're like a gym owner, personal trainer. But none of this we've talked about. I mean, in the last show we talked about getting healthy and all that stuff. But you're really just kind of like motivator, inspirer. Be a better person.

Yeah, like what is – Vision. So my job is playing this visionary. Helping people clear shit out of their lives to actually accomplish something. What is that title or what is that role? My primary role is vision and strategy for active life. Now, I've gained some skills in learning how to do that effectively that are also effective at helping people who are not working for me

or buying our programs and our coaching and things like that. My first priority is mentoring my staff to make sure that they're the kind of people who can deliver the kind of service that our company needs to be able to deliver. That's step one. Number two, in order to do that, I have to be that person, which is extreme. I have to be 120% of that person so that when staff comes through with 80%, they're 99% of the way there.

Then I just have to teach those habits to people and help them develop them. Teach those habits to the people. This is really distracting. There's like four people's worth of abs on two people. There's four men's worth of abs on two men. That's what's happening right now.

It's very distracting. Fisher has the most legit eight pack out of anyone I've ever seen in real life. It looks fake. Is he airbrushed? Is he airbrushed in real life? It's three-dimensional turtle shell. I also noticed he had an Instagram post the other day talking about his butt, and now that I'm seeing it in real life, I'm like, that thing is pretty serious. We don't have to totally derail for Fisher,

but I thought when I met him eight years ago, I thought I was a very athletic person. And like my first career as a hockey player, I was like, I was just too small to play that game and everyone else is way bigger, but I might have had the genetic capabilities, skill wise to play at a higher level, but I was too small and then i found

crossfit and there weren't many people playing crossfit so i was like i'm totally gonna be good at this game and then fisher walked in and i was like oh that's that's what strong looks like dude fish doesn't even compete anymore and this morning at 7 a.m we walk in no warm-up just starts doing 225 pound cleans and muscle ups for a metcon zero warm-up no that's necessarily a good idea but that's just like how fish is yeah different kind of person he is dude he's a fucking friend and when he i don't know if i've told you the story if you haven't heard this on shrugged you should listen more when the very first day we trained together we were in the middle of like a 20 rep back squat cycle. And I hit 305 for 20 and I thought I was going to die.

Like my lifetime, everything was like, I just want to hit 315 for 20 on the back squat. I can't wait. Like I'm two weeks out, five pounds a week. I'm on this program. I'm going to smash it. Fisher walks in. He's like, what are you doing? It's like, this really hard like thing, like 20 rep back squats.

They suck. You got to take the breath at the top. Your ribs expand, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, cool, this really hard, like, thing, like 20 rep back squats, they suck. You got to take the breath at the top. Your ribs expand, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, cool, can I jump in? Okay. I finished 305. I'm, like, dying. He throws on 10s on the outside of the bar.

And I'm like, dude, I don't know, like, fully if you know what's about to happen to you, if you've never done this. He's like, I think I'll be all right. If not, I'll just drop it. 27 reps at 325 later he literally just like stopped and looked at me and was like should i should i keep going or should i what should i do and i was like yeah i i should walk out of my own gym right now is what i should do and then uh like two or three 20 rep cycles i watched him hit like 395 or 400 for 20, and I was just like, there's a reason why you are Ryan Fisher and I am Anders Varner.

Being humbled is good. And then when he walked out onto the regionals, he took fifth like two or three years in a row at regionals and looked so average. And I was like, holy shit, there's a lot of you out there, and nobody's afraid of Ryan Fisher like I am. That's freaky. Speaking of back squats, we were talking before we started recording about the back squat step-up thing that you guys posted the other day.

Dig into that a little bit. Oh, man. So we make a post the other day that was essentially we have this coach immersion program that we've talked about a few times now. And there was a gym that bought it privately. Believe it or not, a lot of gyms do that. They spend, it's $12,000 and we do it for your gym, which is about 50% of what it would cost if they all bought it individually. Yeah.

So we started this gym called PR Star CrossFit or CrossFit PR Star in Virginia. I know them. Hold on. What's the guy's name? Never Sleeveless. Talking about Ryan? Yeah. I went to high school or college with a bunch of his friends.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, Ryan Cage. I believe that's his last name. I know it's his last name. He's a good guy. He seems like a good guy. PR star. When he opened his gym, I was like, PR star?

It's a beautiful spot. Did they take all the names? Yeah. Six years later, he's still in business. Yeah, it's a nice spot. Did they take all the names? Yeah. Six years later, he's still in business. Yeah, it's a nice spot, man. Yeah, it must be really hard to get a CrossFit name these days. So, you know, one of the things that you learn in the program is the value of unilateral work. And I don't need to go any deeper than that.

We don't replace bilateral work with unilateral work. We just value both. So when their program was over, they ran a squat cycle in their gym and they basically said, okay, we're going to measure everybody's one rep max. I think it was a one rep max. It could be bastardizing it now. And then we're going to divide the gym in half. This half is going to do step ups instead of squatting for the next cycle. This half is going to do squats instead of step ups for the same cycle. And in the end of that cycle, we're going to remeasure your back squat. The group of people who did back squats improved their back squat by like an average of 3%.

And the group of people who did step-ups improved their back squat by 9.8%. So we make a post. They made the post. We just reposted it. And I said, here's some research for you because you guys are always asking us for research. Here's something. People lost their fucking minds. Lost their minds.

Attacked my integrity. Attacked my ethics. Said we're stupid. Someone actually, one of the good comments, it was funny, was, do you have any more snake oil for sale? And I'm like, you guys are good. This is good stuff. Thank you for boosting the post on top of everyone's feed with all your hate. One guy writes something along the lines of,

I've squatted 700 pounds for two and I've never done a step up. This is anecdotal and bullshit. Oh, and retarded is the word he used. And my comment, my response to that was, I didn't even want to justify it with like your response was anecdotal. So I just wrote, oh, shit, Mike Dexter just got to the party. You know, he can beat the shit out of everyone in this room. That's a can't really wait reference for anybody.

That's an old one. It's a good one. That is a good one. But I mean, like there were 500 comments and about half of them were more like that than like, oh, cool, step-ups might do something. And it's wild because we're not teaching people that step-ups are better than squats to develop the squat. What we were doing was saying this audience in this gym for this amount of time did this thing and these were their results. Without stating an opinion about it. thing, and these were their results. Without stating an opinion about it. No.

And these were the results. And my extrapolation of that data is, first of all, it wasn't a scientifically executed study that had control groups. Yeah. It wasn't. And that makes the data unreliable. Without question. There was no abstract process you know that stuff was an

instagram post it was instagram and there was no science look the only the only valuable thing for you to take from this post from my perspective is that if you've overdosed on squats you might find value doing something else to improve the squat yeah step up is one of the things that you could do probably maybe that was the point of the post people lost their fucking minds and when i really gave a lot of thought like why did people go so crazy about this and i think it comes down to identity and dogma and it's's, well, I've always squatted and I got really strong. And if you're right, that makes me wrong. And if I'm wrong, that makes you the person who pointed it out to me.

And if I feel bad about that, it makes you an asshole. And if you're an asshole, I'm so mad I'm going to post nonsense in your Instagram feed. Like that's where I feel like it had to go. People go crazy in there. They have to, right? The back squat is the best one to piss all the people off. Yeah. There's a lot you can do to piss people off if you really want to.

Anytime that we make a post that gives numerical ratios, people lose their mind. Where did you get that from? I've got it. Go for it. Step Up University. Step Up University. Go for it.

Perfect. If you do that for the next six years, you'll have 100,000 people. I would get so bored. But that's the thing. Even when we put that in our programs for our clients and we test it, the people out there who are looking to doubt, who are looking to contract the information that's out there from other people are like,

where's your data on that? And I'm like, dude, is the water in your shower wet? Yeah. Well, how do you know? Did you fucking test it?

Yeah. Did you have somebody come and measure the water? Did they make sure that your armpits smell less smelly after your shower? Is your grass green? Like shut the fuck up yeah if somebody has two step ups on the left and 20 on the right at the same height with the same weight and you don't think it's a problem we just have different ways of solving for people and that's okay how can we get over that like knee-jerk reaction where if if something you're

saying is right that must mean that everything that i've thought is wrong, and so I'm going to freak the fuck out. How do we get over that? I think it's looking for what you can learn at all times. If what you're doing is working, and what you're doing is probably working, because you've talked about it before. What's the best way to exercise? I don't know.

Get out and move. Do something. Do something. Everything works. It's a question of, oh, is there something in this that I can gain? I'll give you a quick example. I can tell you wanted to say something. Yeah, go ahead.

Okay. So I'm big on LinkedIn now. I'm enjoying using LinkedIn because you can kind of ask people for what you really want without having to pretend that you don't want anything. And I get on the phone with a guy and I'm like, hey, I'm looking for this guy to connect me to somebody who can give us mass appeal in a totally different sport. You know, he's a snowboarder. And I'm like, I would love for this guy to connect me to himself, his colleagues, the

companies who sponsor him for corporate deals, whatever we can do to grow the reach. On this phone conversation, absolutely nothing came out of it from a positive perspective. It was, I don't really need that right now. I can see what other people might. I'll try to connect you to them, but I'm not sure how financially solvent they will be to take it up. The companies don't care about the athletes enough. They're too dispensable. They're not going to pay for it. And the agents aren't making enough money in this sport to really care either.

So I don't know if you're going the right way with it. And I'm like, okay. That was extremely valuable. I don't have to now reach out to Burton. I don't have to reach out to whoever else makes snowboarding stuff and ask them to do this with us and come up with this elaborate scheme how we can help the company by helping the athletes who they're not invested in helping yeah i think that's a real skill though one of the things that

i really struggle with when i hear people talking is it's like that's good or that's bad like wait it has to be bad or good? Like, isn't there some sort of like we learned something? Well, this is the theme that's been coming up over and over again this whole weekend is that fixed versus growth mindset and not thinking that, you know, you know everything or you learn something so you don't need to learn anything else. Or, you know, it's being willing to be open and hear all sides and learn and experiment and try things and keep your mind open. Look, I used to root my entire treatment around the idea that everybody needs to get adjusted.

That's where I started. Yeah. Your problem is in your spine because your nervous system controls everything. And if I can correct your nervous system through chiropractic adjustments, you will have a better life. I no longer feel that way. I think there's value to them, but I no longer feel that way. So I don't do that with everybody.

Then I was, you need chiropractic adjustments, and you need soft tissue work. I am the best at giving soft tissue. You need to come and get this. I no longer feel that way, so I don't do it all the time. You know, and I used to have assessments that we used with our one-on-one clients, and I was like, this is a really important assessment.

I no longer think those assessments are extremely valuable, and we no longer use them. You have to evolve yourself or your own. You're going to get smashed. You're going to get smashed in the business world. The people that get really hung up on stuff like that, you can really tell. Like they go and defend that.

Like those are the people defending the back squat, your comments. Asshole! You suck! This is the only thing I know, and I'm not willing to learn anything else. I don't imagine if those results were reversed, and the back squat won, and the step-ups didn't win, that you would have people that were saying things like, that's not a real study.

Told you! Told you! Idiot! Fucking's not a real study right i told you told you idiot fucking moron dork but i told you now it's legit and the crazy thing is you know we we've had the people who those people are like who they worship yeah because if you of course i spend a few extra minutes being a human and trolling them without commenting but I want to see like who are they following who are they like really impressed with those are our clients the people whose accounts you

are praising and whose research you are holding up are literally paying us to solve their problems right now yeah and it's wild. Yeah. Dude, we smashed.

I like hanging out. I like hanging out too. Do you got anything else you want to let rip here? That's a dangerous question. Yeah, let's get after it. I'm down. I could talk to you endlessly. What do you want to talk about?

I feel like we got it all out. We did. We talked about a lot of good stuff. I feel like this is honestly a podcast we've talked about this before and i have a bad habit of not listening back to a lot of my podcasts because i just can't stand listening to my own voice i think i'm getting better at this job and it's getting less painful you gotta break that habit i know i need to do that and i do still listen back but i just i try not to if i can help it i feel like this is one that i'm gonna want to listen to over and over again well i

appreciate that yeah if i can leave people with one thing, it would be that the same four questions that are going to get you there in business are going to get you there in life for yourself. And that is, what problem do you solve? How do you solve it? Why are you uniquely fit to solve it? And who has it? Answer those questions in business and then turn them around in life and say, what problem do you need solved? Why do you need it solved? Why are you unique? Why doesn't everyone need it solved and who can solve it? What do you think about like the, I mean, you lay that system out, but I think that there's even a more, maybe not a more, but an underlying idea of trust that people have to build with clientele. And that's a really, really big piece of maybe solving that puzzle, but then communicating

to people like why, even if you know all the answers to that, like how are you building trust with people? Well, that's part of your process. It's how you do it. So we end every workshop that we give our coach workshops they come to learn how to assess people's movement my hope is that they leave better people than they came in yeah and we end the whole thing with so you learned all this really cool stuff if you go back to the gym and you're like johnny i was in a workshop this weekend i'm gonna fix your shoulder it's 50 bucks be at the gym tomorrow at 12 p. You need it. And Johnny's like, ah, dude, I'm not really into that. You're like, Johnny's an asshole. He doesn't want to shoulder help. Johnny didn't come because Johnny believes

that you did that for yourself, not for Johnny. If you talk to him in a way that says, Hey, Johnny, I was in a workshop this weekend and the whole time I was there and they're talking about these shoulder assessments, I kept thinking about you and about that time that you were frustrated when we did this, this workout in the gym the other day and go on and on and on and on. And I would love to see if the stuff that I learned can help you. Would you mind being one of the first experiment clients when I get back to the gym? Yeah. Great. One's good for you. So we end every workshop teaching them how to gain people's trust on purpose. That it's not like, yes, it happens by accident, but trust is looking the part, finding commonality, having credibility,

and then demonstrating intent. And we go into all four of those different categories to end the workshop. Yeah. Just because I was tagged on your Instagram post today on the train, somebody talked about a letter you wrote at the Brute Strength. I want to hear this story. All right. I need my phone for this because I don't want to get in the way.

So you're talking about Danielle McGinnis. She was at the Brute Strength athlete camp. And one of the questions that she asked in the end, because we let people ask questions, is what's the first thing that you guys do in the morning like how do you keep yourself going every morning and as soon as she said that i had like this not like a sinking feeling in my gut but i had like this oh fuck here we go because i didn't want to lie i don't want to make something up but my morning is very vulnerable i read my personal

mission statement right like i i write down my morning routine is vulnerable. I read my personal mission statement. I write down. My morning routine is write down what you're appreciative from yesterday and one thing that you're excited about for today. That's it. Write that down and then pull out your phone and read your mission statement out loud in the mirror. That's my morning routine. It's not like Himalayan sea salt. And then the kids blow up. And then the craziness happens. Oh, yeah. For sure. So that's my morning routine. It's not like Himalayan sea salt. And then the kids blow up.

And then the craziness happens. Oh, yeah. For sure. So that's my morning routine. And I'm like, I'm going to have to read my mission statement to this group. So I pull my phone out because I was like, I don't want to mess it up. Yeah. And it was so valuable that I've done it at every single workshop I've been at since.

And I've cried like a little baby every time I've done it. Oh, here we go. I don't know if I'll cry here because it's not like a big – You're not exposing – Yeah, like when there's 40 people sitting in front of you looking at you and you just taught them all weekend and you're the alpha in the room. Now it's like, all right, let me get really vulnerable. Now there's 40,000 listening, so here you go.

Let's do it. Bring it in. So I'll read the mission statement. So my mission statement, and I do tell everyone they should write one because it's a guiding light, is through my actions, my words, and my patience, I will deliberately coach my children to be valuable adults. With empathy and effort, I will demonstrate intentionally my love for my wife. I will influence positive change in this world so that others will find success they otherwise might not have. And through the execution

of my process, I will leave a legacy that my children and future generations can be proud of. So I read that at the Brute Camp and it got a nice little ovation. I like that. It's amazing. Do you do this stuff? You mean... I feel like that happened and you kind of like earlier when we were talking about this weird thing that we've done.

I respond to it because I feel like I should be doing more of it. Like the journaling and the kind of writing things that you're grateful for, things you're looking forward to in the morning, that's something I've kind of played with and that I haven't done enough of. And I think for a while my excuse was that I'm a writer for work. I don't want to write anymore. I don't want to write anymore. I don't want to write for myself or write in a way that no one's going to see it, which is stupid. And I've grown up when I was a teenager,

I journaled all the time before that was a hot thing for people to do. I just did it because it felt good. And I had things in my head that I wanted to write down. But that, the clarity that you have there and how every day you're reaffirming that for yourself and for your family and for the people who are looking up to you that's incredibly valuable and it's something that makes me feel like i'm like i'm an asshole i need to do this i feel like i've said it to you like a couple times of like the self-editing thing yeah i don't want to be your coach i could like but

it's it's a fun thing to be my coach either yeah i'm not trying what i'm saying like when when i'm not yeah i'm not trying to give you life lessons right now. Self-editing is the coolest process. And trying to find a core value. I think when I was on your show, I talked about the core values of our family. That we've mutually agreed to this faith, love, and freedom. And what that means to our family. It's just a cool thing to write it down and be like oh shit every day like faith we wake up and

you're doing your best for me and i'm doing my best for you yeah like can we just agree that that's what how like the basis of our family we're waking up and committing to be the best we can be like love what if we just lead from a place of love it'll be a friendlier conversation are we gonna freak out and have stress and fights and all that yeah but we love each other and our goal is to have this and then freedom might want to live in our own matrix and if you can like create like a structure if everybody can just do the like journaling and edit that down. Do more journaling. Edit it down.

Find out, man, what does it actually mean? The foundational piece to why you get up every day and do it with the people that you're around. There really is just such a strength and clarity. When you're reading that, I'm like, you know what the fuck you're about. You know what I mean? A lot of people don't. So there's reasons why people don't do it. And I think that the reasons I didn't do it is the mission statement feels really final.

And it doesn't have to be. You know, I look at it all the time. And the reason I read it is because if one day I'm like, no, I'll change it. Yeah. And that's okay. It has to change. Yeah. It has to get bigger. Yes. Like a purpose has to it. Yeah. It has to change. Yeah. It has to get bigger.

Yes. Like a purpose has to grow. Yes. Everything has to grow. Yes. And the journaling in the morning, it's two minutes. Yeah. Like I'm not writing myself a love letter every day.

This morning, I think I wrote down that I appreciate that yesterday I got punched in the face less than I did on Wednesday because I'm now training mixed martial arts for the first time in my life. And it was better. And today, I wrote, I'm excited to crush it on Shrug Later today. And that was it. Crushed it. Crushed it. You accomplished that. You have a thing that you do every night, though.

We've done it together a couple times. This sounds interesting. I know, right? Yeah. That's why we share a full bed last night. Sure did. Fisher stole the other bed. The smallest guy got his own bed.

I feel better sleeping with Doug. Smallest hike. Totally. I actually do two things. So 5-Minute Journal app is really, really easy. It's very similar to what you're talking about. I actually thought it was the same thing because it's kind of the same same process yeah it's it's it's really similar it's like you pull up the app and it says there's a morning thing an evening thing uh the morning

thing is i am grateful for dot dot dot and you have three spots you can fill out and then is what would make today great dot dot dot and then the evening one let me pull it up and can you go back and look at days past totally yeah. And you can repeat two actions. It tracks it all. And then the evening one is three amazing things that happened today and what could have made today better. Yeah. Easy.

What's that app called? It's the 5-Minute Journal app. Yeah. Cool. There's, like, something in there, too. Like, how do you feel about those actions? Is that one of them? Not on the 5-Minute Journal thing.

So was that the thing you two did together last night? Well we're driving in the car we're not telling you the whole thing it's like after what happens under the covers stays under the covers the majority of time when we're on the road doing shows there's like a big where we're luckily we're walking distance to our hotel but usually there's a two-hour three-hour car ride wherever we're going, and we like to talk about things, and it's like, man, how'd today go? Like, how could those shows have been better? What's your vibe on what we learned? Like, how do we improve Shrugged? Like, what do you objectively look?

I mean, fuck, we woke up at 5.30 yesterday morning and had, like, the most intense conversation on what, the direction of where our show's going at 6 a.m. I hadn't even had coffee and I was like, fuck, we've got to talk about everything all the time. But it's self-editing of what, like objectively viewing everything that's happening and viewing it from as an external piece and not this emotional thing that's super connected to you of like i have to be so passionate about like exactly my way it's like no like let's observe the result of what happened that didn't go that well we were trying

to do this it didn't really go great the numbers didn't really work out we probably don't need to do that again maybe we can not touch the edges. I have something for everyone. You can steal this. You can do it for any situation. For me and my wife, it's specifically related to our sex life, but now we use it for many other things. We call it a romp recap.

Okay, so after having sex, the next day we look back and we say, what did we like? And how could have been better? We call that even better if thing. So what do you like? How can it be better? You could use that for anything. Yeah. Right. You don't do that every time you have sex. No, not every single time. But, but if we want to, if we want to talk about, I think that's a good model. It's not like, what'd you think about it? What didn't you like? It's just, no. What did you like? How could it

have been better? It's all framed in the the positive so you could do that with anything though like how this podcast what what did you guys like how could it have been better do you want to do it go ahead dude okay we'll do it all right no i'll do it right now okay let's do it yeah let's do it right now i like that sean is so easy to talk to i don't even i don't have to say anything those are the best podcasts when the guests can just go and go and go and go and go and I don't say anything, that's when I think the guest is fucking smashing. I just don't think that makes my life really, really easy.

Even better if. Here, let's see what we liked first. I liked that the three of you taught me a lot about how I can communicate and be more honest and present in my relationships because I was not expecting that not to say anything you know but i didn't see it coming you guys taught me a lot today i liked

that i feel like i've had a complete conversation like a full thought about what you are interested in yeah i liked that we had that conversation instead of the how do I fix a broke down shoulder conversation. Yeah. Even better if. Well, we got here 11 hours ago. So I'm more tired than I probably normally am on a podcast. I'm totally ready to go eat dinner. So if we could have done this earlier in the day for me as an introvert toward the end of the day, I tend to slow down on wanting to talk to people.

And I always do better in the morning. So I tend to like to do shows earlier in the day when I have more energy, and then toward the end of the day I can be a little more chill and I'll be on, so to speak. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Even better if I had a full night's sleep last night, which is on me. But that's my struggle. Even better if I felt like I was rushed coming in here.

I don't mind the lateness, but I had a friend show up from a long time ago that I haven't seen in like 12 years, and I really felt like I left you guys hanging for a little bit, and I was a little late, even if you don't care. I don't like rushing from one thing to the other and being pulled, feeling overextended. I felt like the one thing that could have been better is if I had more communication with Doug ahead of time

about what kinds of things I would enjoy talking about so that he could have thought about maybe things that came out in the conversation that would have come out easier for you without having to think about it. And I'm not suggesting you didn't do a good job, by the way. I enjoyed the talk. That's a cool recap.

I know, right? Self-editing time. Self-editing time. We should do a romp recap at the way. I enjoyed the talk. That's a cool recap. I know, right? Self-editing talk. That was good, right? Self-editing talk. We should do a romp recap at the end of every show. I like that, actually. I like the name too. But it's valuable, right?

Because now the next time, like the first time we were on, I didn't have Cleary here. This time, we're going to have really cool media stuff that we can give to you for you to use to put it out, which will improve listenership. And we can put it out and improve listenership with that too. Next time, if we ever did another one, I would reach out to Doug beforehand

the same way I've been talking to you, and if there's going to be a third person in the room, I would talk to them, too. And now I can do a better job next time. I think we'll definitely do this again. It's nice having a third person in the house. She's cool. And you don't have to deal with Kenny Santucci

this time. You know what I really liked about this? Kenny, totes. She's cool. And you don't have to deal with Kenny Santucci this time. Thank God. Thank God. You know what I really liked about this? Kenny wasn't here. You're a better ref. Thanks, dude. Thanks for inviting us.

Word up, dude. Where can people find you? Let's do this. If you Google... If you made it all two hours and 15 minutes, well, whatever I add to this thing at the beginning and end. You challenged me on my show. You were like, look, if you can only jam, if you have your hour stick, then. Look, here's the thing.

Podcasting, how many people are doing an hour? Most. Most. Most? 99%. 99%. If I just gave you a like, hey, can you tell me about your career? Could you do an hour?

Yeah. Of course. You don't even need me. No. Not at all, right? And the wave of a long conversation how many times you actually sit down in your real life talk to somebody for two hours about something you care about and actually have to like in the first hour we talk about all the things you know

in the second hour we've gotten past all that it's like this is the this is now we're now we're figuring things out we're talking in uh we're thinking out loud in a really elevated way in which our ideas have to be you have to add something to them yeah and it's uh i think that going long is really important like one to what we do like nobody's really you can get people outside their comfort zone and find out like where that conversation gets weird you just wear them down until they say something weird. I think it's just like the first time you've done two-hour shows, right?

We went an hour and a half on your show, an hour and 40 minutes, something like that. Yeah, we could have gone for another two hours. For sure. I love long form. I enjoy it too. To answer your question, ActiveLifeRx anywhere. ActiveLifeRx.com I was ready to go on hour three. ActiveLifeRx.com, ActiveLifeRx anywhere. ActiveLifeRx.com. I forgot I was going to ask you a question. I was ready to go on hour three. ActiveLifeRx.com,

ActiveLifeRx on Instagram, ActiveLifeRx on Facebook, and if they want me personally more of the kind of conversation that we had today, because this happens less on ActiveLifeRx, they can go straight to Sean Pastuch on Instagram. Yep. Actually watch all of the ideas come to fruition. That's right.

How they're implemented. Yep. Muscle Maven, tell me about yourself. That's it. You can say hi to me on Instagram at TheMuscleMaven. You can also check me out at AshleyVanHouten.com. You can see some of that writing I'm talking about. Maybe I'll put some of my private journal entries up there. Probably not.

See what else I'm up to. I love it. Doug Larson. If you want to read my romp recaps, you can go to romprecap.com. Oh, God, I hope that exists. Oh, my God, I just got so excited. I don't know. We should Google that later.

That's probably a real website. Oh, yeah. Obviously not my website. Maybe we should Google it. Don't Google it. You can watch me on Instagram, of course, Douglas E. Larson. I also have my own site, DougWatsonFitness.com. Shrug Collective at Shrug Collective. Is warner at andrews warner six days a week

six podcasts million downloads a month four youtube shows going out every week that's like 10 gigantic productions and uh shrug collective smashing yeah we'll see you guys on Wednesday. Bye. Bye. Shrug family, we did it. Another two hours down. This going long thing is so radical. Lots of me, lots of Doug, lots of the Muscle Maven who's coming to the Shrugged Collective on February 7th.

The Muscle Maven Radio. Unbelievable. So stoked to have her on board. Thank you to Dr. Sean Pastuch. Man, can't wait to get out to the Active Life RX seminar you have in Atlanta. It's going to be so killer. And make sure you get over and follow me at Anders Varner.

Hit me with the hashtag. Go long. Take a screenshot of the show. I appreciate the hell out of all of you listening to this. Man, never thought I'd be the host of Barbell Shrug. Never thought this microphone would come my way. And I'm so stoked and so grateful for everybody tuning in

sharing the show, telling your friends we're growing it makes me feel so good and I love this I love being here and I love talking to you guys the more we do it, the better everyone's life is so, shoot me a message at Anders Varner, screenshot hashtag go long, all the things

we will see you guys next week