Barbell Shrugged - Emily Abbott Opens Up About Crossfit Ban

Episode Date: July 21, 2018

Exclusive interview with Athlete Emily Abbott.  She talks about her recent 4 year ban from Crossfit. 

Shrug family, Anders Varner here. We find ourselves in an interesting place again. A couple weeks ago, we had Russell Berger on after his firing departure from CrossFit headquarters. This week, we find ourselves at Stratum CrossFit, Stratum Fitness, talking to Emily Abbott after her recent four-year ban from CrossFit for a failed drug test for performance-enhancing drugs. Once again, Doug was unable to be on the show.

Unfortunately, I think he would have brought a ton of depth and really good insight into this conversation. So it's unfortunate, but location and timing and the urgency of this interview, we were unable to get him in the room to be a part of it. Um, instead of focusing on how these drugs entered into her system, one of my main goals of this was just taking this from the fact that she failed the drug test. She 100% failed a drug test. There is no doubt about it. And when she signed up to play CrossFit this season,

she told everybody by checking that box and agreeing to CrossFit's terms that she would not test positive for these banned substances. She tested positive for the banned substances. It's a fact. How it happened, the amount that was in her system, all these things get into a gray area of what's right and wrong. And personally, I try and stay away from right and wrong and just keep it centered around the facts, which is she 100% tested positive. Most importantly, though, I think this is just a really small chapter in Emily Abbott's life. I think she has a beautiful soul.

There's a little thing that happens, and it's really important that we do all of our interviews in person because when you're in that room, there's a little thing that goes off in your brain. It's like the bullshit meter. And in interviewing her and being around her before and after the interview, I didn't have that bullshit meter go off. I thought she was really authentic. I thought she was really genuine. I thought she was telling the truth. Um, and that's all I can really hope for is for her to tell her story in the best possible way she can. Nobody asked my opinion, so I'm not giving it.

And the only thing I care about is the facts. And the fact is that she failed her drug test. She is banned for four years. She will not be competing at the CrossFit Games. And everything else is her story to tell. I'm really stoked that we have this platform to share ideas, share stories, and give people a little bit of a voice. However you see this situation is 100% up to you, and I think that you're entitled to it.

You should have your opinion, and you're entitled to it. You should have your opinion and you should talk about it. I think it's great. It rallies up a whole bunch of conversations with people, but this is her story. This is the way she wants to tell it and I think it's important that we give her a platform to tell it. I appreciate you tuning in. I hope you love hanging out at the Shrug Collective, and I appreciate you listening to my voice every Wednesday and randomly when we get to have these controversial slash more difficult conversations. So enjoy the show, and we'll see you next Wednesday.

Ready to rock? Yeah. Ready to rock? Yeah. Ready to rock? Yes, sir. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. Super special episode coming to you today from Stratum Fitness, hanging out with Adam von Rothfelder and our good friend Emily Abbott, twice on the show this year.

Yes, sir. Exciting stuff. Less exciting times, but exciting things to talk about. We left you. Depends what side of the yeah well i guess exciting is an interesting thing it's a good conversation we're about to have um we left you at the fitness business summit when we first met you we watched you do some fitness in the open and the last thing that i said to you was maybe the most important thing is that we're all realizing that we are on a journey.

Correct. Your journey has been quite interesting over the last two months since we last talked. Maybe we can start this thing a little bit further back, though. We can go back to the last time we talked because you had just finished, what was it, 18.3? Handstand push-ups, deadlifts? That's right. Handstand walks? Yeah, where I first met this guy.

Yeah. Where were you in your CrossFit season? How were you feeling? What was training leading up to that? And, like, going into the Open, where was your brain? And then kind of just walk us through the Open and your goals and anticipation for this CrossFit season? Right. So, I mean, there have been a lot of upheaval in my life up to that point.

I had just moved to a new place. I had just gotten engaged. And I was in a new gym and just training and totally enjoying not being in cold-ass Canada and enjoying, you know, being able to go to the beach after training. And I was having a total blast and I was training around some great people at a CrossFit Invictus and met a lot of amazing people. And basically I just, this whole season, it was CrossFit wasn't as much of a concern for me. It was more about, okay, what's my bigger picture plan? I was starting to think about what I was going to be doing after CrossFit.

I started thinking about possible business ventures. Some travel. Travel. I wanted to travel a lot and just, yeah, kind of explore the next avenue of my life. And so I went and just had fun with the Open. It was, you know, my fiancé and I started filming things and just having fun on YouTube and kind of getting out my message, my credo, and, yeah, I was just having fun with it.

Yeah. Where did you finish the Open? I think, was it 20th? It's pretty gangster in the world. No, no, no. 20th in my region. Gotcha. 111th in the world.

So it actually wasn't even, it wasn't my best finish. But, you know, I was like, okay, I'll just, I had no expectations. I had no expectations because I was just having so much fun living in the moment and enjoying San Diego, enjoying my new love, my engagement. So that was where I was at. Yeah. So Regionals is coming up. What do you have, like two months in between to get ready?

Yeah. So going from 20th in the region to winning the West, you're the fittest girl in the West. That's pretty gangster. It was completely unexpected. I did not. What does training look like and just going into regionals? Like where's your head at?

And, I mean, you fucking smash people. And to add to that, you came to Invictus when? And was that your first time that you started training with them? Were you training with them? So I come to Invictus in September and was training there. I was still doing my programming from back home. Or I switched back to my original programming from Calgary, my Calgary coaches, in January.

But I was around those people. They allowed me to come train in their gym and uh they were amazing to me like such good people so I was training around lots of different athletes yeah did you do the programming at Invictus or you stayed with your coach the entire time uh from September to December I did do Invictus programming but then I made a decision after December um to go back to my original programmers. Why did you do that? I just honestly, I could not handle Invictus programming. As much as I love those guys, I think they're brilliant coaches.

And they're one of the... Volume? Is it like the volume? The volume. And I just was like, you know, I'm about to turn 29. And it's just like, I don't, I can't handle this volume. So I went back to my original programmers where I do a ton of running, a lot of monostructural stuff, and very little lifting because if I lift a bunch,

I just get too heavy. So I just went back to that. Very cool. Getting into regionals, did you stay on the same program? Going to regionals? Correct. And then regionalsals that's a pretty awesome weekend for you you're probably whatever cloud nine is one one higher than that it was

unreal it felt like it was so good because it was for maybe in the first time in my life that i competed with like absolute presence i didn't compete out of fear and i just showed up and i was just like whatever happens this weekend will happen and I wasn't a result-based weekend for me it was just more like being perfectly in the moment and being accepting my uncomfortableness in each moment yeah and uh just being I was so present I was like fuck yeah Emily like you finally reached that. Like I've done athletics my entire life. Yeah. And even when I played basketball, I maybe had two years where I was like that,

where I was just like in the zone. And it's just like it was so cool for me and so self-actualizing to reach that moment in CrossFit. Is a lot of that coming from like work you're putting in, like the self-work you're putting in or are you having coaches come in and talk to you about that stuff um like i think that the that what you're talking about is really the hardest part of athletics is accepting that you might be good at something and performing at your best it's a really challenging thing for people to go into

competition and actually perform that the way they're supposed to and feel great about themselves doing it like there's a there's a huge process that goes into that yeah so actually my coach um back home jen swagger sent me a lot of um mental homework to do and so i started going through that um just basically more positive affirmations and then two weeks before regionals, I had started listening to The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, and it like completely floored me and like transcended me into this space where I was like, whatever is, is. And when I was, I remember competing at regionals,

I was like taking in everything, like the crowd, like what the space looked like. I was just like really in my moment and not to mention those events were just super good events for me and I had been running on the assault uh the assault runner like disgust like disgusting amount so it was great to see that I actually had made ground in that and was able to like hold on to a seventh place finish I think in that in that that first triple three event. I mean, getting back to even the night of 18-3,

when I met you, you were talking to me, and you were very present. You were very collected. And then you kind of looked at your watch, and you're like, oh, I think I've got to get going. We're going to be competing soon. Where everybody else is neurotically warming up and stuff. And you were focused in a different way where I even said to these guys, like how impressed I was at the focus you had to the fact

that you could have a conversation completely about nothing about what's going to happen. And you went in there and did as well as you did. It was like a certain type of presence that it does take a lot of work to get to and it's something that I recognized in you and you know as you're talking about the idea of you know you're looking on to bigger things I mean in our last podcast we even talked about and since then you and I have talked about it a lot too of where you want to go and like this might even have been your last year of CrossFit you know and that's even like kind of was in the conversations totally and that's what's so for me so tragic about the events

that just occurred is that I was constantly looking at the bigger picture and CrossFit for me was always just something that it was amazing because I met amazing people and I had amazing experiences and it's like that was what CrossFit was about for me it wasn't about results just what I did over the past weekend or the few weekends ago at regionals that was just a cherry on top like it wouldn't have mattered if I had finished 20th or first because I was at that point in my life where I was like I just I just know who I am it was just like it was super empowering the other thing I changed leading up to regionals I actually remember um talking to Brooke Wells because she was out in San Diego

and I was like you know I've been like with my diet I've been eating a lot of high fat low carb I just don't know if it's working for me I don't feel very good. She suggested that I start working with a D, a team wag. And I did, and I started counting macros, and I felt incredible on that. So that is one thing I changed. I mean, it's not even like all the stars align because you started putting all the pieces into place on your own to create that regionals weekend. I think a lot of that came out too in your interview at the end where not even the i'm a fucking boss part the part that i was really interested in was when you were talking you were like i'm just standing here talking to

this lady with blonde hair and all these people are here watching me work out like this is so weird um like i think that that is a very very cool thing that I think a lot of athletes need to get better at in understanding the moment and being present in it. Was that, were you able to carry that into your training and leading up to the games? Like, what does it look like the week after the games or after regionals as you start to prepare? Because this is kind of, like, leading into where we are now. So the week after the games, like, honestly, like, I just ate a lot. And I slept.

And I, like, I ate ramen. I ate pizza. Yeah. All the good things. Everything. Ice cream. I didn't go to bed on time. And then.

Naughty girl. Yeah, very naughty. And then, yeah, And then I just, you know, you slowly, you get back into it. The first few days are pretty brutal. Like you just don't feel awesome, but yeah,

then you get back into it and you realize, you know, I was talking to Patrick Vellner recently, like the, the training between regionals and the games is not fun. And like in years past, I've cried a lot because it's just, it's fun,

but it's also like, okay, I'm over doing fitness so much. And then – but you realize that it's, like, such a short period, such a short turnaround, so you just get it done. And I think Patrick Vellner is, like, such a good example of that. He's just such a grinder. So it's like – I was like, yeah, you're right. It's just – you just got to grind. Where were you training at um i went back home to calgary i stayed for two weeks after

regionals here and then maybe one more week i forget and then i left the 24th back to calgary alberta canada which was a brutal transition because the altitude there is that was probably better for you make it harder oh it made it harder all right i felt like my lungs were bleeding i don't even know what's gonna happen in wisconsin i'm scared to go there it's like north it might be cold and there's no elevation but the humidity is a motherfucker yeah it was cold last year too so it was cold because cold and rainy yeah yeah i mean it is wisconsin you never know what you're gonna get it once snowed on my birthday, and my birthday is April 28th.

Oh, 26. Look at that. Look at that. Yeah. So you go back to Canada. So, I mean, you compete in the regionals, right? And then you're going back to Canada to continue training after your pizza and your ramen binge.

Yeah. And now you're back in Canada and you're with your coaches and this is kind of where things start, your reality starts shifting. Actually, it was even before I went back to Calgary. So I was notified on, well, I was really notified June 17th, but officially I was notified June 18th of my my failed drug test so it was a month ago yeah cool so and that would have been it was a failed drug test at uh on may 27th at regionals so there was a month in between you took the test at the end of regionals they make everybody pee blood test we were we had a urine test and blood test.

Got it. It's pretty heavy duty. It's an expensive test. Yeah. So then you've got a month until you find out. Results come back. Is that a month? I think that's less.

That's like three weeks. Cool. Somewhere around there. Cool. And so you find out. Now, is this the first time that you're hearing about this? Is this the first time that you're like, when you get this call, is this like what's going on in your mind? Like what is, is this the first time you're hearing this news really? Or is this something that's like you may have heard?

So I actually was just like having a sweet Sunday, you know, I was walking my dog and then a friend of mine calls me and says, I have like some terrible news. I heard from a friend of a friend who was talking to great or who was talking to Greg Glassman that you have failed a drug test. And I felt like I had just been punched in the duodenum like i was absolutely floored like what the flying fuck and and he's like and i was like do you have any more information and he's like no just that you you failed your drug test and so like right now like what's racing through your mind so initially i was like what the fuck? Like what could it be?

Because I've never taken anything. I don't do anything like that. So I ran back to my place and I started looking at like what it could potentially be. I'm an asthmatic. So I take salbutamol. And this has never been a problem in the past, but I was like, maybe this is a problem now. So I was prepared to be like, you know, okay, I'm an asthmatic.

Like, I have been my entire life, and I take salbutamol over the weekend because otherwise, like... My throat will close up. Yeah, like having an asthma attack is, like, terrifying. Totally. And I take Advair and Ventolin. Ventolin is salbutamol. So I was just like completely stressed about that and pretty, I mean, it was just like the worst news ever. And I just couldn't believe that.

I was just hoping to God that it was misinformation. Yeah. And between that time of this person that you know that contacts you with second, third, fourth party news of hearing, you know, Glassman talk about it, then where is, like, what's, between that and you hearing it from CrossFit HQ, what's, like, the time ofFit HQ, what's the length there? What's the time? So I heard about that Sunday night. Went to sleep.

Terrible sleep, obviously. Woke up Monday morning and just I was like, you know what? I'm going to go train because I show up and I train. That's what I do. I'm not going to take a day off. And then I was just constantly checking my emails, like praying, like, okay, maybe this isn't me. Like maybe somebody got it wrong. And then at, I think, 1.30 or 2 p.m.,

I received an email saying you failed a drug test and the substance that was found in your system was ibutamorin. And I was like, ibuta what? You didn't even know what it was? you didn't even know what it was i don't didn't even know what it was and uh so then i pick up all my shit from the gym i walk outside and i immediately call my fiance and tell him what's going on and uh after that conversation i told him what it was he informed me that he had been taking Ibutamorin for months. Is there a street name for Ibutamorin? Well, do they call it – I know the other name is MK677.

667. 667? I mean, the Ibutamorin is more of the real name. MK667 is more of the real name, and the Ibutamin is more of the the the product name like the shelf name what what is what is like the the purpose of taking this or what like if whoever would be taking it what is is it like an estrogen blocker testosterone no so under my understanding and more of the research i've done and from the expert that i hired um it is and i actually have like exactly what it is right here when I pull it up. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a GH secreteague. So what it does is it actually has a GH precursor

that is in like mice studies, right? As they always say, mice studies, they find that at a certain dose, it can potentiate more growth hormone. it's a selective antagonist of the growth so mk677 is a long-acting potent non-peptidic and selective antagonist of the growth hormone secretagogue receptor also known as the ghrelin receptor so in other words it helps in building muscle mass gotcha by repairing muscle mass faster and it By repairing muscle mass faster. And it says so. Muscle damage, I should say. For athletes, some advantages of using ibutamoron has been described. It helps building muscle mass, increases IGF-1 and growth hormone levels,

which then leads to increased muscle strength and increased muscle mass. It also increases bone density. Makes you stronger, makes you bigger. Right. Cool. All right. Can't they just come up with a cooler name so that I can remember it?

BFS. Bigger, faster, stronger. I want to, I'm interested, like I've been around the CrossFit world for quite some time. Call it 12 years. Before we even jump to that though like your boyfriend's taking this your fiance is taking this yeah right i think this is an important aspect right so this

is in your home with your boyfriend and how is it that he's taking this and you're testing positive for this i think this is like the gap that needs to be closed so then uh i he informed me that he had been taking ibutamorin for months. Which you didn't know he was consuming this stuff. I had no idea. And after we started investigating this, I was like, well, how the fuck did this get into my system? I've never taken Ibutamorin. I don't even know what it is. So we started investigating

this and possible how this could have happened. I immediately retained an attorney because I was like, I need help proving my innocence. I called up my family. My family got me in touch with a lawyer and he had to put in an injunction right away for CrossFit to get my appeal going. And so that they wouldn't announce it the next day, which would be the June 19th. Well, everyone gets an appeal process, right? Because there's more people that have not been announced that are in their appeal process right now. Are they? Yeah. Oh, okay.

I mean, that's what they said on, when they released your information that there's a group of people that have not, that are in the middle of their appeal process, but have not been released yet. Okay. So I think every athlete gets an appeal process upon request. Yeah. Um, so, uh, and then also my lawyer requested the lab results to see what exactly was going on and how much was this in my system. So. Then after that. I put together all of my supplements. That I was taking that weekend. Or even leading up to it. And I submitted it to my lawyer.

To get them all tested. To rule that there was any cross contamination out. To like which cost a lot of money. I think it's $500 per substance. So, but at this point I was like, well, I don't care. I need to know, I need to know how this could have even possibly got into my system. So, um, after that, we, uh, after that, uh, I spoke with the lawyer and we started compiling, um, evidence to how this could,

or investigating basically how this could have gotten into my system. And I of course told my lawyer that my fiance was taking a sublingual liquid Ibutamide and supplement and had been for months. So it was, and sublingual for anybody listening, it's a liquid that obviously is under your tongue. Right. Right.

And you keep it in your mouth for a period of time so it actually can absorb through the bloodstream faster. Right. Because the tongue is such, has more capillaries and has that ability. Okay. It's almost like the equivalent of giving yourself a subcutaneous shot. Okay.

So. And then, of course, I was absolutely beside myself and I, I was in shock for maybe two to three days. Like I couldn't move. I was so torn, um, that someone I love and trusted, um, had been taking this and that it could have possibly transferred to me. I couldn't even look at him and, uh, you know, but I just had to have faith that my innocence, that the truth would prevail, and, you know, I just, I just, a lot of prayer, and, you know, they say

that faith is only a theory until it's tested, and so I really, I really had to dig deep and try to be strong, and so it turns out that my fiance was taking this supplement at night um he would typically brush his teeth or drink water um and so I was like okay so maybe um it was through like kissing or something like I don't know uh then my lab results came back. At this point, I was back in Calgary because I had to go back home. And my lab results came back and it turned out that I had 0.02 nanograms per milliliter in my system. So really that's 20 picograms per milliliter,

which is 20 trillionths of a gram was in my system. You can't even see that. Would we consider trace amounts? When you're dealing with any things on the inside of your body, especially when it gets into hormones and stuff, if I was to be fully juiced to the gills, what would my number be? Do you know? I don't know.

Like 400 NG. Like 700 NG, right? And then so yours was 0. Zero two NG per milliliters. So it's a very small amount that they found. Yeah, like very, very small. So I was like, okay, so like somehow there's an inverted transfer here because otherwise I don't know how this got into my system. And so then we, my lawyer and I discussed it and we started talking to toxicologists and we hired a European toxicologist by the name of Professor Klintz, Pascal Klintz. And he's a toxicologist.

He was, I have all his qualifications here, but very well-renowned man. He's an expert in toxicology. He's the president of Society in Hair Testing. He's a professor of legal medicine at the University of Strasbourg. And he's a professor of legal medicine at the university of university of strasbourg and uh he's expert for justice for the french courts of chemistry toxicology doping and blood alcohol determination so sounds pretty damn credible he's a very credible individual

to school in class many more times than me yeah he's been around so we uh explained what happened and the story and and what was going on and he's an expert in ibutam the chemical ibutamorin and so he determined that with my fiancee taking a sublingual dropper at night um that the oral cavity, saliva, becomes the drug reservoir within a two-hour period. So at some point on May 26th, which was Saturday night, there was a kiss. Sana and I kissed, made out, whatever we do usually on a Saturday night. And somewhere in that time frame, a transfer occurred. Wow.

Yeah, that's – I mean, what's going on with Scrampy? Like, what's his thought process? I mean, like, where is he sitting? That's your fiancé. And that's your fiancé. Sorry if I use his slang name. I can't remember.

That's his IT handle. Yeah, his it handle yeah his it um he obviously uh is going through a whole gamut of emotions like he's just was felt sick that uh you know he has potentially destroyed my life and my career everything that i've worked so hard for over the past five years. And this has been like unimaginable strain on our relationship. Like obviously I couldn't even look at him. The resentment I feel is like so deep, but I also know that like, that's, it's misplaced blame. He is not part of this CrossFit world until I came into his life and you know he was just doing what he does and uh I we both never imagined that there would be some kind of transfer like this so and why is

he taking this like what why is it why is it something that he's taking not a competitor not a competitor he you know he's not applicable to any kind of testing um he's taking it because he basically his body's broken and uh you know he was taking something to make himself feel better sauna takes a lot of different supplements and tinctures and i just never thought to go investigate each one to see how it would affect my life. I just did my thing, you know. It's an interesting thing because I go back to Cherie Chan from two years ago. Do you remember her story? Yes.

It's very similar. The Asian, was that the Asian weightlifter? Yeah. So she made it to the Games, and she tested positive, and her story was virtually the same in that her boyfriend was taking – I wish I could remember exactly what she got popped for, but taking the exact – it was either saliva, it was semen, it was something. Oh, she said it was from sucking his dick.

Yeah, that's what I – I mean, like, just be flat out, that's what it was. Well, I actually don't remember. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was I read the article after you told me about it previously but she virtually has it's a very similar story and

in Cross the Tide clearly they don't care they have rules and they have to play by them but I can see the devil's advocate of this saying like we have to know there's people that have done this before right um where where do you kind of stand on like what what is we're here to tell your story but like what is crossfit's role in this like i don't know i don't know what they're

supposed to do and it's an interesting question for you because what do you think they're supposed to do. And it's an interesting question for you because what do you think they're supposed to do? At this point, I'm still trying to figure this all out and process it. I just want my story to be heard. I want my truth to be respected. And that's a really hard one. Like, I don't know what they're supposed to do. But I compiled a comprehensive pre-hearing brief and i had an expert with witness and so i was hoping that this was going to go to a hearing where i could at least

be cross-examined where my expert witness could be cross-examined um so i just i was hoping for more of a process more of of more advocacy for myself. Yeah. I mean, were there red flags going on in your mind just to the fact that you heard about this from somebody and not even the organization first? Definitely. I mean, like, that would be a first red flag for me. Like, how are you knowing about this and people talking about this before I know about this? Well, I knew about it as well pretty early in the game.

And he knew about this. I didn't even hang out cross with gems yeah which to me is it's it's super hurtful because i mean i don't refute the fact that i failed a drug test i did yeah but i do refute how it got there and i refute the intent i am so against and i abhor the idea of putting synthetic chemicals into my body that I don't even take birth control. So this accusation goes against my entire nature as a being. And I chose CrossFit because I actively pursue, I actively seek hardship in my life because I know I can overcome it. And I guess maybe the situation is similar, but I chose CrossFit because I know how to work hard. I

grinded for five fucking years. I went through an entire process of just working hard to enter into the realm of cheating never even occurred to me. And so to this this for this to happen to me like why my question is why would i want an easy way out like it just so goes against everything that i that i am so well i think it's also across this in an interesting spot right like they last year had the very first big name person pop and they've clearly invested a lot of money into it because there's been 13 i think people that have been popped this year already which is more than i think the entire history of crossfit all combined right and it really begs the question to me of like i think steroids drugs you could call it whatever it is, performance-enhancing drugs,

were literally created in the gym to make people bigger, stronger, and faster. And now we have a sport of bigger, stronger, and faster. They go really well together. Yet we've all been living under this veil of clean everything and community and this beautiful little picture that everyone's painted. And now we've got 13 people that aren't showing up to the games this year because they have been in gyms trying to get bigger, stronger, and faster a little bit quicker than everyone else.

Is there maybe at the highest elite levels of CrossFit, do you think there is becoming a culture of this? Why is there 13 this year where there wasn't 13 total before i mean i think over the years crossfit's become more sophisticated with their drug testing system and rightly so um but i couldn't speak to the elite levels of what the culture is like to tell you the truth like i'm not as at that involved with like the top 10 i just kind of you are the top 10 you're the top quarter of one percent i guess that's true yeah from the outside looking in though i mean i'll say like you seem like you're kind of on

your own like you like from what i see like with like your Instagram and your social, how you do things, you're on the top 10 percentile, but you're not hanging out with them. That's not your culture. And I couldn't speak to that because I just kind of beat to my own drum and I kind of keep my head down. Because I think I have a really healthy relationship with what this all is or was now. Which is that there's a total bigger picture behind just competing at the games i like my fans my the people that follow me the people that support me like to me that is the bigger picture and which i i digress right now but the the outpouring of support i've had from people and the amazing messages I've had from people. It's been incredibly uplifting, even with all the negative shit out there. But yeah, I can't attest to what the culture has become. I think that CrossFit is trying to become

more serious and their drug testing is becoming more sophisticated, i think is fantastic the irony is is that i am now caught up in this absolute nightmare um of something that i didn't take so i just don't even know how to process that like i mean i'm not in crossfit but i was i was in professional fighting and you know when when i look at like the perversion of reality that these organizations can take or create based off of their own independent rules you know it's like you look at like somebody that broke a record in the 90s and track and field and then we try to compare ourself today and we try to do it naturally and yet everybody in in the late 90s early 90s like flojo and all these people will test positive

for for steroids right and then like we still want to see like a 10-1 100 from a girl right and it's like five years ago when they weren't testing for crossfit really you know you have girls that are now you know guys that are snatching 265 275 we know whatever the number is and then it's like okay now we're going to start sophisticating we're going to increase our sophistication of testing yet we want the same results so you like whether or not you're a clean athlete and you inadvertently took it like you're going to drive other people to the idea of taking a performance enhancing drug to even qualify for those types of numbers because those numbers can be unrealistic to those that can't even that aren't taking that right right and it's totally not my intention like right right well but and and and

and when i see like when i see you know crossfitters and i see like some i see some of the most jacked bodybuilders you know and i know they're i know their regimen and i look at these you know crossfitters and i'm like how many of you are actually natural right and like the grand reality of it right like and in professional fighting, there's so many people that get busted, but there's so many people that don't. And it feels like that all too often is like not as random as one would think. And I feel like so often that even the penalty itself is not as random as someone would think. Somebody could get popped for steroids and only be out of baseball for six months, you know, but then you're getting suspended for four years. Right. Well, for 20

trillions of, you know, whatever of a over the counter supplement. Like there's a lot of people who are misunderstood to the idea that this is an anabolic steroid or that this is a growth hormone. Like I got in a fight with somebody on Instagram about the idea that this is a growth hormone. I'm like, if you're dumb enough to think that you can just go buy growth hormone, like it's like a thousand plus dollars a month. You have to go get a doctor, like all these things. It's not that easy to come by growth hormone. Right. And so it's like what you potentially took inadvertently took all these things could have been through a tainted product.

Like many people have had through a tainted product uh like many people have had their products tainted like uh that one fighter who tested positive for ostron you know um you know so many other people i think emmanuel romero was is that the fighter's name he tested positive for ibutamorin and it turned out that it was like a chinese creatine company that he's taking and they're they're gonna pursue he was banned for six months six months yeah so um but again i'm not i'm not comparing the two you know i think that and i wanted to go back to something you said at the very beginning of what you were saying and it's not wrong that they want people to be world-class strong but i think that the idea of

crossfit in theory that glassman's laid out is that I want you to be world-class strong, but I also want you to be able to run a four and a half minute mile. And yes, the weights have continued to go up, and they continue, and Castro continues to push people to their limits, and people continue to meet those expectations. But the person that's winning, and

the person that's at the top of that game is, whether clean or not, excelling across that wide spectrum. That paradigm. Yeah. And I think that CrossFit, that's kind of like its tenant, if you can stop me wherever you would like.

But in comparing it to other sports, there isn't the funding. Like, you know, if you take ryan braun out of baseball millions and millions of dollars get lost um if you take track and field or whatever whatever the sports are crossfit's in a very weird spot and they're very very locked in and keyed in on their message and exactly what they want to do and i've seen it a jillion times like they are not afraid to whether it's right or wrong in people's opinions when they pick people out i mean castro just put his book out and started calling people out for drugs that have never tested positive that's weird that's a it's a very weird thing he's like jose

can say going his own sport uh in a way like yeah yeah, he's, you know, like Christian Lucero got drilled. Nicky Ranker got written up in the book. Like, those guys are getting called out. And I think the bigger question is, is four months the right ban? Is six months the right ban? Is two years? Is four years? When we sign that piece of paper to play the Open,

we have to sign up for their rules. And I don't... There's a piece of me that I don't know what's right and wrong. And I'd love to know just, like, where do you think that you being popped for such a small amount, if that's somebody else, what do we think of that like as completely completely objectively like where where does it fit into just kind of like man four years is aggressive for something

very very small but where do we draw the line outside of they've already drawn the line for us right i think where i'm i just wanted to be able to be heard more. Totally. And I was also thinking like counting my blessings that I was even able to hire an attorney to do this. And I was thinking about other athletes that were in my position that might not be able to. All of them. Yeah. There's no advocacy. And like, that's scary um i think and i i'm a someone who's very accountable and i accept if i do wrong i will stand up and say i did wrong in this situation i don't feel that i

did wrong i went into that weekend what you saw was pure presence pure emily abbott badassery and events that were so great for my body. Yeah. So I can't even, again, I'm still like, this is an evolving experience and an evolving journey. I don't know what is right, but I just know that my truth and the truth needs to be respected. And like I said,

like you can't, I cannot refute the fact that I failed a drug test, but I can refute how it got there. And I just want to be heard. And I want my expert witness to be heard. So if this was a different person, I don't know. I just, I don't know. I don't know what this.

That's a good answer. Yeah. That's a good answer. You don't know. I mean, I, it would be hard to judge anyone else in this position as you're the one being judged right now. Yeah. So it would be very challenging because you don't want to be like,

oh, I'd take it easy on the person. It's like, well, of course you would. You know what I mean? So I think that my completely, me not knowing CrossFit, which Anders always makes it very apparent that I don't know CrossFit. It's not that you don't know about it. No, no, no, it's not negative. You come from a world of fighting, which they have their own set of rules.

Totally. So it's – CrossFit's weird, dude. Yeah, yeah. It's super weird. Fighting was weird too. Yeah. 14 years ago when I started, hey, fuckhead, your time to fight. Get over here. my name's adam

yeah whatever dude you know and then you go out and make 200 bucks and like beat the fuck out of this dude yeah you know and it's like and if you get your face beat in you get no money yeah so i just beat that person's face in for 200 and like no drug testing no nothing right you know that was the start of our sport very raw and very raw yeah and i think that like that i was never once drug tested all of these sports started from basically that i mean the first time we went to sectionals it was literally in a parking lot i've seen those photos our 400 was running around the parking lot like eight times there was they didn't like let you go out into the street because there was a highway right next to us so like all of these things are growing and evolving and i think that's why the band went from two years to four years and now they're blood and urine tests right and i don't think that they

know the right answer they just have to kind of like stick to this thing but what so here's my question what are they sticking to well this is also interesting because i would when i went to regionals in 2014 was the last year that I thought I had a real shot and we all went team and made this big concentrated effort I stopped smoking weed I don't know if they test for weed I know it's in the books and it's a really interesting one but how many times are people getting popped for marijuana like they they say that that's illegal and um i i don't this is the thing to me is when you have leadership that is clearly not afraid to let the cat out of the bag to people that are not inside that inner circle and when you have a leader of the crossfit games that is very very very adamant about his opinion

and the way things should be you run into a really interesting scenario because as the book laid out there's some favoritism playing like he's friends with people that are at the top of the sport and i'm not saying that anything shady goes on but it allows a conversation to happen in which things don't feel right and if marijuana is supposed to be tested and nobody's gotten popped for weed try and tell me every single person at the regional cycle down off marijuana before shit after 30 minutes of working out as hard as i possibly could the best thing i could do at home is go fucking get all parasympathetic and take a hit, eat some food, go to sleep. And I don't know.

I think that they're constantly evolving, and they're trying to do it right. But it's like the fight game. You see it all the time. You see the favoritism in the testing all the time. I mean, come on, Dana White, somehow Brock Lesnar never gets tested. Right. You know, like little things like that. Like there are all these, there, you know, there are all these scenarios in the past where it's like, you're telling me Sammy Sosa and Mark McGuire were hitting home runs for two years like that, looking the way they did. And then they finally decided to test them. You know, it's like, how long were you going to let that go on and sell

tickets for? Right. You know, so tickets for? It's things like that. You're selling the tickets. You're making the sport a thing. And then you're like, oh, well, we got to get this person. We got to show that we test. We got to get 13 people. Here's my thing. Of course, after this happened and it was an inadvertent exposure i started

looking up other cases of this nature and there have been several and within the ioc itself so and it was like you know people kissing people people making out with their girlfriend and it was just like like holy shit like this is real And I guess maybe my hope is like, I guess athletes now have to be so much more hyper aware because drug testing is becoming so sophisticated. It's like, do I have to be in a hermetically sealed bubble? Um, is do I take, I do take responsibility that I should have known that this was happening, but I didn't was blindsided so i just don't know what the answer is where do we go from here and sometimes horrible this is a horrible tragic shit happens like this is fucking brutal it is brutal for me because i like i don't even know if i can continue

in my relationship because it's like how do i how do I get over this resentment? How do I, how do I move forward? And I'm going to try my best to, but it's like, man, like this is sometimes like, it's like, it feels like an act of God. Like, I can't even, I just don't understand. And so I just, I just hope that like, something good will come of this. And so I just, I just hope that like something good will come of this and maybe more athletes will have an understanding that, you know, anything can happen.

And initially when I heard that it was a beautiful morning, my system, I didn't even know what it was, but I was thinking, did someone fucking sabotage me? Yeah. Did someone like, I remember at,

uh, the regionals on sunday i accidentally grabbed a water bottle that wasn't mine that i thought was my coaches and i drank that and all that was going through my head i'm like whose water bottle was that i know it was like some dude in that back area which people sneak into all the time like of course my brain just started making all like all these possible scenarios until I found out that it was, you know, my own fiance. So, man, like I'd like, where do we go from here? I just don't understand it.

You spoke about hardships, right? And you like hardships, right? You thrive off them in some sense. Yeah. You know, and for me. I've just never been in a hardship where it's attacked my character. Totally. Yeah. And I mean, I could save just from like the person on the outside like hearing you talk and hearing your emotion like seeing it and feeling it is that this you know this this hardship might be this one that you know really gives you the ability

to rise up and like we all have these we we all face these moments in our life that everything seems against us and like the world is collapsing but that's when we form a new reality and we become the hero emerges right like that's where that person comes from totally the person that does change the world comes from a world that was taken away from them and destroyed right yeah you know you have to have faith in that because you're talking about faith yeah and this is that moment yeah it's just really hard to see right now and like and it's gonna take a while i'm sure yeah it's it's heartbreaking it's absolutely heartbreaking yeah the the have you been training since what tuesday Since, I mean, the last thing I did was I trained on last Friday.

And then I took two days off because I was feeling, obviously, trying to train through this stress has been brutal. I actually, like, lost my voice at one point, which was, like, such a metaphor um and uh the first thing i've last night i went and played like in this really hardcore five-on-five basketball game on base um which was like super fun but that's the only thing i've done yeah are you a professional crossfit athlete like do you have a job outside of fitness no no i don't so which was why i was looking yeah bigger picture um but yeah no i don't it's interesting there's man i um let's i mean let's talk about the bigger picture yeah i mean like let's just you know for instance put all this aside right like what what do you want now like you know when when i separated my shoulder 12 hours after signing a nice contract that said i was going to get x dollars to fight

these three fights and i knew i was never going to fight those fights because of what just happened to my shoulder it was like the scariest moment and then a revelation within days came and then months and then a year where i was like oh my god thank god that happened yeah like holy shit thank god i walked around from that away from that torturous activity and was able to now give myself to what it is that i truly love which is helping people and not hurting people right not winning, but helping others win. Like Rocky. Yeah. Rocky always shows up. I'll take that.

Fucking win. But that's you now. All this aside, none of this matters to you now. And in seven months, eight months, what are you doing? How are you going to take all this love, all this passion for what it is that you've done? You have the psychedelic gypsy fitness, like all this stuff. Like there's something amazing out there for you. That's so far beyond CrossFit.

I love your optimism. I think like right now, I mean, I've been running through everything. I feel victimized. I feel accountable. I feel angry. I feel. Sounds like the 12 steps, right? It sounds like you're going through them. Um, but then also there's acceptance, which is such a bitch is one thing I've been working on and accepting this situation as it is. And, uh, I have been completely humbled and struck down and, um, going forward, I have two two choices I can either let this make me become 20 years older and bitter and angry and just hating the world or I can rise from the ashes and be fearless and and move forward so I don't know what that looks like yet, but I know, even though it feels like I've been like robbed of my life force, I will not let that

happen. Like I'm going to continue to be like this radiant individual and I'll never stop being that because I know that I have a choice for life right now. And a lot of people don't. And a lot of people have messaged me being like, my Uber driver over here, he was like, in 2009, my dad killed himself. And it was the worst thing. He's like, but I got through it. And people have been messaging me like,

I just found out my husband, a non-smoker, has terminal lung cancer. You can do this. keep going who does with like just a an instagram person messaged me and you know and you know it's incredible messages like that where i'm like yeah you're right like it does put this in perspective it feels life-ending but there's also maybe a lot of freedom in that because I can go anywhere from here it's just I never wanted my crossfit career to end like this so um it's like so tragic because I feel like I've been such a steward for this sport and like I feel like I had such a good relationship with what competing meant to me and it never was take an easy way out.

It was hardship that formed me, that it elevated me to a new consciousness. So, yeah, it's just, we'll see, I guess. The great Asian philosopher of someone said, we'll see. We'll just see. If there's, when I realized that the, and not professional fitness by any means, but when my competitive career was over,

the things that I really held on to had very little to do with the competition and the performance and all of that it's it's the thing that actually made you good which is hard work perseverance resilience and you quickly realize once you step out of the CrossFit bubble that CrossFit's just a widget and you can apply the the core principles of your life that you may or may not have put the self-work into, like hammering down or realizing why you were good at CrossFit. But it has very little to do with, like, your snatch

and your clean and jerk and your friend time. Because you work hard. Yeah. And you were the person that a lot of really good training partners wanted to be around um yeah it's it's it's very sad when something is taken from you versus you letting it go right um but i think that the you talk about six seven months from now you'll probably have a very different outlook on things that you can be good at i think it's just it's a part of the process

of like oh I can apply me and who I am to everything you do definitely and I know this like five years five years ago after I was getting better from dengue fever I had a vision that I was like I can do so this amazing thing if I put all my energy into it. And I did that with basketball before that. So I know the next thing, whatever I put my energy into, whatever I envision, I can do. Have you ever not been Emily Abbott, the athlete? No. That's fucking frightening, huh?

It's scary. Yeah, it is scary. Do people introduce you, this is my friend Emily, the CrossFitter? Definitely. Right. I was Adam, the fighter. Right. And then all of a sudden you're not a fighter or crossfitter and you're like who am i yeah but but i also knew like even from my basketball days like i never identified with that or i had to learn how to not identify with basketball so maybe in a way i was getting in too deep and identifying myself as the CrossFit athlete. So this is like the universe's way of like ripping me out and like kicking me in the crotch and like doing a Spartan kick to the chest for me to like,

this is CrossFit. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's horribly tragic, but you know, this is how this happens.

Bad shit happens to people all the time. And it's again, my victimization brain wants to say like, you know, this is how this happens. Bad shit happens to people all the time. And it's, again, my victimization brain wants to say, like, you know, I've tried it so hard to be a good person. You are a good person. To be a loving person. I know, but I just, like, I can't. How can I justify what. None of anything that anybody is saying or anything that you did or did not do,

right, in the sense of, like, the eyes of people is you being a bad person. Yeah. I think it's really nothing about you is very important to realize um there's a set of rules that are in place and when you check that box you agree to those rules but none of them none of the rules in there say you have to be a good person yeah they all say that you're not allowed to do whatever that thing was that that we think is a bad for yeah And a lot of people associate that with bad. But at no point in any of that paperwork that you signed

does it say you have to be a good person. And that's actually the real thing. If you were to ask me, which no one has, you jerks. What do you think? I think that there should be one sport in the world in which we say, let's fucking roll the dice, and if you want to juice yourself up, let's find out what the real freak looks like. And I think CrossFit's a great sport to figure that out.

I don't give a fuck about steroids. I don't give a shit about what anybody wants to put in their body. It means nothing to me. Everyone makes choices every day. Boom. I like that. For me to think I know the difference between right and wrong for your life i that would be really fucking egotistical and really stupid of me um and i'd have to put

a lot of thought into what i think is right for you and i got shit to do today and whatever let's have one sport where let's throw it all out there and let's get after it um it's not like people are hitting each other in the sport. Like if it was baseball, I mean if it was football or fighting, you know, people punching each other, people, you know, that could become dangerous. But honestly, like I'm kind of with Anders on the idea of like, you know, and this isn't padding anything that, you know, you've tested positive for or accused of.

But like I just think that the reality of it is if we want to see what biggest, fastest, strongest looks like, well, you know you know i mean i just don't care like and the thing that i think that we're really up against is not right or wrong it's you we check the box i did the open i checked the box and the box said if you test for this and you're good at it we probably have to tell the whole world about it and you can't play the game anymore and that's just the rules of the game that we signed up for if we want to create the the fully juiced fitness league let's fucking do it but it's a good name it's pretty good um like it's just actually i did somebody did right um on my i saw one comment and it was like she's more juice than a tropicana factory so i was like fuck me and my it was like she's more juice than a tropicana factory fuck me and my mom was like

what does that mean but yeah i don't think that like i don't think crossfit's wrong and i don't think that you're wrong i think that something happened and because nobody knows what to do they have to put the rules out before something bad happens and when something bad happens the easiest thing to do is to go back and look at the rules and say okay now we have to implement the rules that we put that everybody checked the box um but it like i said at no point and checking that box doesn't mean you have to be a good person you're allowed to be a good person for the rest of your life yeah i'm i think i have more to say about that but i'm not going to talk about that now you totally can if you'd like no i'll wait that's good i like it um the journey continues

yes sir i super appreciate this this is awesome thanks this was actually a like it just i've had to stay quiet do you feel like you got everything out i want to make sure like yeah this is that moment i mean you you flew in from canada for this yeah i mean which we really appreciate in the sense being able to be given this platform and it does feel cathartic to be able to at least say my truth say the truth and and then you know it feels good i think people resonate with it like you're super honest just being in the room with you i don't feel any shadiness coming out of you. Usually that thing in the back of your brain happens when someone's lying and not being forthright. I don't know how it happens.

I don't know what happens when a tiny, tiny little amount shows up. But I don't get a vibe that you're doing anything weird from you and everything seems honest and forthright. Same here. Thanks, guys. When they follow your journey journey where are they going to see you um abbott the red and psychedelic gypsy fitness and i don't know what do you real quick what are you doing on psychedelic gypsy fitness yeah i i mentioned it before and i just want people to to know what you're doing over there uh basically like I feel like fitness is a catalyst to um basically like I said before elevate your consciousness if you allow it if you have a healthy relationship with it if you reorganize your value system and basically I want

to help women in particular understand that it's so much more about fitness is so much more about just getting a hot bod. Right. It's it's about reconnecting with your life force, which is what a woman has. It's reconnecting with your mental faculties and just elevating that. So that's kind of what I'm trying to do with psychedelic gypsy fitness. You are doing. Yes. You are doing. Thank you.

Are doing. You're not trying. Yeah. And just going to keep going with that. Cool. We're expecting big things. Yeah. Thank you, sir.

Keep being a good person. Hell yeah. Always. Von Rothfelder. Yes, sir. Where can people find you? Check me out at Von Rothfelder. That's V-O-N- H F E L D E R.

People seem to have a hard time with my last name. Yeah. And, uh, syllables. Yeah. A lot of syllables. People are like,

is there a space there? So at Von Rothfelder on Instagram, or if you'd like to give me a follow at strong coffee company, we have some delicious instant nutritional coffee that, uh, will rock your socks off. It's delicious. Uh, find me at Anders Marner at the Shrug Collective.

Five podcasts a week. Four YouTube shows going out weekly. You're doing all the things. Fucking crushing it. Proof on Mondays. Barbell Shrugged on Wednesdays. Everything else, make sure you follow. Make sure you're hanging out in the Shrug Collective.

See you guys on Wednesday.