Barbell Shrugged - Episode 10 - w/paleo pastry chef Brandi Marter

Episode Date: May 2, 2012

The Barbell Shrugged gang is joined by Paleo Pastry Chef Brandi Marter.

Hello iTunes listeners, this is CTP from Barbell Shrug. For the video version of this podcast, we actually have a cooking type show dealio thing at the end of it. So if you're just an iTunes listener, I recommend you go to our website, fitter.tv, check out the video version of this one, and check out the video versions of all of them, but this one in particular, get a little extra bonus bang Bang for your, well, you're not paying anything, but enjoy it. It's good and tasty and delicious. Mmm.

Can't get used to this shit. It looks really weird. You do look shockingly different. I thought it was somebody else. You could have went down to a one level, you know? I don't have the different size clippers, though. It's either burly or nothing. Yeah, I'm an extremist It's either eighth grade blood so or 45 year old homeless blood so

There's no in-between are we recording all right Yay, oh We can go ahead and get started with all that. Yeah, we can get started. Don't catch me on film. This is a cooking episode. Oh, you're totally going to film. We're talking cooking, so we can get drunk. And Della's going to be on the next cooking show.

So you got to get used to it. Those things are good. You got to get used to the limelight. You just want to come back to your house. Huh? You just want to come back to your house. Who wouldn't? I know.

All right, guys. This is Barbell Shrug. You just want to come back to your house. Huh? You just want to come back to your house. Who wouldn't? I know. All right, guys. This is Barbell Shrug. I'm Mike Bledsoe here with Doug Larson and Chris Moore. Who? With our guest, Brandi Marger. How are you? Great.

We are filming on location at Della and Richard's house. They've been so gracious to let us film here since they have an awesome kitchen. For those of you listening and watching at home, you will find out what the kitchen is for in the second half. We're going to cook in it. So I actually got to witness something pretty cool right before I left the gym.

We have a coaches course going on starting tonight and Paul Eich leads that. It's a six week course. They meet two hours a night once a week and it just really fine tunes everyone who wants to coach.

Their coaching abilities, all that kind of stuff. The first half hour night was basically everyone introducing themselves and why they came to coach you know why they were at the uh at the course it was really cool people coming from all uh different walks of life everyone uh you know the 50s and we had like firefighters and a police officer and students and it was really cool some fresh faces yeah there are fresh faces uh Over half the people there were not faction members, and it was really cool just to kind of see, like, this was like the new coaches in Memphis for CrossFit.

How long before we make CrossFit really mad at us? We're working on it right now. We're certifying coaches without their purview. We're not certifying. They're certified by our standard. We're educating. There. They're certified by our standard. We're educating. There's no certification happening here. It's not that what you're doing is bad, CrossFit.

We give them everything they need that you don't provide. Well, in all reality, the course is actually based off of nine fundamental movements that CrossFit teaches during their level one cert. So we're just taking the level one cert to a new kind of spending much more time on it. This sounds politically acceptable. We just, is this that we, well,

if they're already certified, it's just making them review the material and improve. And if they're not certified, then it's making them feel more confident about getting certified in the future. So I think it's a win win. Yeah. So wait, you know who else is certified? This guy.

That's right. I'm qualified to be a CrossFit coach. Well, before I left, I got to listen to nine stories of people discovering CrossFit and then loving it so much that they ended up saying, hey, I want to coach as well. That's cool. That makes me – so, Brand brandy where do you fit in that like how did you find crossfit what got you started and where do you stand now uh y'all

know von rolls i worked with speaking to your microphone i'm sorry i uh i worked with his mom for like 12 years and uh is his mom in the biz no no no no not at all um but uh like i saw him when he first had abby and uh he was heavier you know fat no he was fat he was not fat as a fat guy i can call other people fat i had the license to do that he was not fat anyway before he started crossfit and then i saw him you know like a while after he had done CrossFit. I don't know if it was a year into or later on. He had a commercial appeal article that was done on him. And I hadn't seen him in a while.

And I looked at the picture and it was ridiculous, like the change that he had made. But still, I didn't really think anything about CrossFit. I hadn't heard anything about CrossFit. I read the article but didn't think anything else about it. And another friend of mine, nick rice uh right before the grand opening it's like you you know just come to the grand opening don't don't be stupid just come yeah thanks nick but i had just uh signed a membership to a regular gym like the 39 months tanning included gym it's a good deal yes So I had just signed that membership like a month before.

We just got tanning beds at Faction. No, you didn't. So you get, for $39, you get full access to the gym plus a tanning service. Plus a tanning bed. And that was very important. And it is still very important. Now it is my tanning membership. It is not a gym membership.

It is my tanning membership. But anyway, so after that, like I came to the opening still thinking there's no way. Because, like, you know, people think that it's not cost effective when you originally hear the cost. Later on, you figure out that it is. But, you know, Nick told me how much he paid per month. And I was like, I'm not paying that. I'm not going to that gym. That's stupid.

But I went to the grand opening thinking, okay, I'll just go, whatever. And walked in. You know, it was, what was okay, I'll just go, whatever. And walked in. It was, what was it, in August? It was hot. I think it was mid-July. Everybody was sweaty. Music was blaring. I saw Vanessa.

I don't know what Vanessa's last name is. Do you know who I'm talking about? Yes. Yes. So I don't know what all the movements were. They were doing box jumps and sumo deadlift high pulls and pull-ups. And when I saw her doing her pull-ups and doing those high pulls just as fast and as nasty as the guys were, I immediately was like, I have to do this. I don't know what I have to do to get involved in this,

but it's going to have to happen immediately. Awesome. Yeah, I signed up for the next fundamentals course. I didn't know any of that. People either immediately get it or they don't. You intuitively see the value of it right from the get-go. I just look like so much fun. Because I've been going to the gym and running on treadmills.

You go to that $39 gym and you just don't see shit like that. They have TVs built into the treadmills. You see people just like animatronic robots just going. And just doing this on a treadmill like one mile per hour. Watching Oprah. I'm waiting for your treadmill walk to be wine all over the couch. Yeah, if you can read a magazine while you're walking on a treadmill, you ain't doing shit.

Most girls see what you're talking about and are intimidated. They're like, ah, I can't do that. No, I've never, ever been athletic. I've never done anything that has anything to do with that. But I always wanted to. You never played a sport in your whole life? No, not really. I played basketball for three weeks.

I was on the dance team. I was on the dance team. Was I athletic? For how long? No, for years. Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I ran track for like a week. I did a lot of sports for a very short period of time.

They put me on hurdles. That was wrong. Probably not the first thing you should start with. And I'm five foot tall. Basketball didn't make sense. It just didn't make sense. But yeah, I mean, honestly, I was never really great at any sports. And I had so many other things going on that it just wasn't anything that I was really all that interested in.

But did you always keep looking for the thing that could set off the competitive fire. You always wanted to compete. Well, and everybody that works out and everybody because I've worked out for a long time. Like I, I've worked out for years and years and years. And I thought it was intense. You know, I would work out for hours and hours. I mean, did you make progress? Uh, at times, depending on what I was doing, you know, when I would combine cardio and weightlifting, like I could see, you know, when I changed my diet, things would, sorry, I'm talking into my microphone now. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, of course, if you work out for four hours a day, you're going to find that there are changes in your body and things like that. But nothing with regards to like the increase in strength I've seen since I started CrossFit.

Thanks for the plug. Sorry. James keeps looking at me. Wait, so you actually were working out for four hours a day at one point? Yeah. That's crazy. Really?

Yeah. Was that your own programming? You were just in the gym walking around or you following somebody around? Do you have a friend helping you? Yes. The last one. You're just following people at the gym randomly?

She picks a personal trainer that's got a client and then just follows them around. Just follows them around. I dated a personal trainer for like five years. Okay. And so when he would go to the gym, I would go to the gym. And it was just a way to waste time

so you just continue to work out for a long period of time. Do you guys do back and bys then trust and chives? Yes. Yes. Then the dip and tears and the chicken.

Yes. But like I said, I think anybody that's worked out for a long time, you get to a point where you're just looking for something that will keep your interest because the treadmill is not going to keep your interest.

Doing bicep curls doesn't keep your interest. And so you're looking for a sport, something like a sport. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I agree.

It's weird. When you're just starting lifting weights, when you're in high school and middle school, even in college, like you can't wait to do bicep curls. It's like, it's just, you just can't leave the do bicep curls it's like just everything it's just you just can't leave the gym till you get it done you must do it and now it's like i

pick up i do like two sets i'm like fuck this sucks because sometimes i do it sort of just prophylactically the word like i do it to prevent bicep tendonitis is that the one word i think i think that might be a version of the correct word to use. Close enough. I use it to sort of take care of the issues I have from time to time with bicep tendonitis. But I do like three sets of like eight. I'm like, fuck this. This is stupid.

This is terrible. There's some people that's all they want to do in this life is do bicep curls. I don't get it, man. Chicks dig it, man. They want to do bicep curls and they want to drink some sort of supplement mixture of a big milk jug in the commercial. If you see a guy walk around with a milk jug full of anything,

that guy's an asshole. Get away from him. You had a milk jug full of goat's milk. Yeah, but it had goat's milk in it. And he's an asshole. You don't need a milk jug full of anything. You can always go back and get some more. Like a human being. Because odds are, if you walk around with that milk jug all day full of goat milk,

that shit is hot and gross before you get it down. I was working, and it's a contest to see how fast I can get it down that day. No, that's a jerk thing to do, to see how fast you can drink a gallon of milk. You're not 18, man. You're a grown man. You own a business. You can drink a glass of milk and then go back later out of the fridge and pour another glass of milk you still try to get studly for the ladies just because

i'm 30 doesn't mean i'm dead you did gain a lot of weight during that time nine pounds in nine days you were so huge bro you were vascular and shredded i wouldn't say that especially not then you should not then Robbie on that that workout you were trained in the dirt gown and goat milk so brandy now eat paleo all paleo 90 10 90 10 paleo I give myself one cheat meal a week. I like how it went from all to 90-10 about that fast. I'm 100%, 90% of the time. 80-20. 7-30, really. Don't be a dick.

We should make it clear that her paleo meals are maybe not like ours. How is that? How is that? Tell them what you had for breakfast. That comment on your Facebook status. Today or the other day?

The waffles and the such. Okay. They were paleo waffles. They were paleo waffles. They were paleo waffles. Chocolate waffles. All cavemen had waffles. Paleo chocolate waffles, but they were still paleo

with unsweetened chocolate and cocoa powder. They put the batter between two stones. No, what I'm saying is she's executing on a different level than what you're doing. Oh, yeah, for sure.

I had eggs and turnip hash. I had carbohydrates and fat and protein. I haven't had that. Sounds good. Turnip hash? It was really good. How do you make turnip hash. I had carbohydrates and fat and protein. I haven't had that. That sounds good. Turnip hash? That's really good. How do you make turnip hash?

I've never had it. It sounds easy. It is really easy. The way I make it is really easy. I want to know how to do it. Turnips, onions, bacon. Saute it all in coconut oil. Saute it and then make it in the patties once it gets cooking?

No, I don't do any patties. You just brown it like regular hash browns? Yeah, I cook the bacon first so that you've got some bacon fat and then add a little bit of coconut oil to it. Put the really, really small cubed turnips in there. You're getting scolded by James. I know, I know.

This is not shredded. This is not shredded. This is cubed. Dadgummit. He keeps making me talk into the microphone. You're on the radio. That was James as mad as i've ever seen him he was really upset talking to the mic you're like you're getting in trouble but yeah so

bacon you cook the bacon then you add the onions then you add the turnips and then it turns into ash and it's awesome sounds absolutely delicious it's is delicious. It's really good. But yeah. Marcia, I want that. Marcia. Soon. Make that happen. Yeah. Every off day has to have paleo waffles involved in some way. It has to. They're like an obsession.

Paleo waffles. What's your go-to quick? You woke up late for work. You got to get out the door. What's your go-to quick paleo breakfast? Do you do smoothie? No. I wait until I get to work and hard-boiled eggs.

And I'll just have hard-boiled eggs and some strawberries. I get a little bit of fat from the eggs. But the rest of the day you don't have much time to eat from what I understand. No, I don't have a lot of time to eat. I'm waiting to develop the egg allergy. Because it seems like that's all that I eat anymore for my protein. Just hard boiled eggs all day long. Because I'm at work and we have good eggs at work.

And so I'll hard boil eggs kind of all day. I'll end up eating hard boiled eggs. I get home at night. I do cook a big meal at night when I get home because, you know, y'all know that I go into work at 4 a.m., and so usually some days I'm out of there by noon. Hopefully I'm out of there by noon. So I don't have to pre-cook a whole lot of stuff

because I'm home and plenty of time for me to go ahead and cook a meal every night. So at night, like, I'll have something that is not eggs and is still protein. Anything as long as it's not eggs. And then, you know, just, you know, any kind of quick side, usually kale, something like that. So you're a pastry chef, so you have to get there super early to get stuff baked for the morning rush? Yeah, I try to.

I started going to the 9.30 classes, and so I try to get in there 4 or 4.30. Woo-woo. Yeah. 9.30 love. Yeah, so that I can get out By 9 Have the store stocked And then I go back afterwards And go ahead and finish

All the orders and things That don't actually have to be out Right then Is this like sharp contrast Between What you personally believe You should be eating And then all these jerks

Who come in and eat nothing But muffins For breakfast Well sorta Do you feel bad for like You're peddling What they don't need No

What I'm hoping is That they don't eat this on a daily basis. I'm hoping that they eat this. You've got to have a couple people you see like, dude, I saw you here like twice yesterday. Robbie Froman. Alan Strickland. The frozen yogurt is not such a big deal, but I'm sure there's people who go in there and buy crack cake like once a day probably. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have regular. That shit is good. You had to change the name and buy crack cake like once a day probably yeah i mean i definitely have regular that shit is good but i mean you had to change the name of the crack cake well the name is politically

correct the name is it is crack cake i don't care what anybody else says the name is crack cake but i did have to change it in shop because people were complaining what'd you change it to i don't want to say because it's stupid what do you have to say i didn't change the name somebody else in the shop changed the name to slap cake instead of what oh that doesn't sound really it's cool because it'll make you slap your mama no but a lot of times i still write on the board crack cake and then i hope that nobody sees it i'll just change the c to a k yeah it sounds like a rated r movie i never really saw the complaint but yeah i hate all this political crack shit.

You can't call crack cake. Oh, I mean like crack like drugs. That's not funny. It's a pastry shop. You're not coming in here for like life lessons. Everybody should be having fun. You're coming here for pastry. Yeah.

So I, yeah, that was stupid. But no, I like, I have people that come in on a regular basis, but they make their own choices. Obviously they're not going to a gym either.

Most of them don't look like they're going to a gym. But, but they make their own choices. Obviously, they're not going to a gym either. Most of them don't look like they're going to a gym. But what I'm saying is, like, they're always going to be those people. But they're making their own choices. I'm not there to make choices for them. I'm just there to put out products that I think is good. And I use, you know, we don't use extracts and things like that in the shop. Everything that we use, I use everything whole that I can.

I use good eggs. You know, if you get a strawberry cupcake, it's got strawberries in it. It's not fake strawberry. use everything whole that I can. I use good eggs. You know, if you get a strawberry cupcake, it's got strawberries in it. It's not fake strawberry. God bless you. Yeah, I do the best I can with that kind of stuff. But now when we're in shop,

I do use refined sugar. Is it YOLO.com? Is it a website? Yeah. People can go and see your creations? Yeah, I think we've got some pictures up there now.

We've just now started trying to put that stuff. Yeah, if you're in Memphis, it's the Midtown YOLO. Yoko Logert or whatever the hell. Yoko. Yoko Logert.

Yoko Logert. Yoko Logert. I think that's because YOLO. Yeah. Yogurt and local. That is insane. Midtown. Go.

But you never thought about that, huh? No. No, I never really thought about the name. Don't care. So even though you're eating paleo now It's gotta be hard Staring at delicious Looking pastries

All day long Yeah I hear people Complain all the time Like you don't understand My job I'm in sales You're around pastries All day long

I don't think you get it Cause She's around all day She's desensitized No I'm not desensitized to it. Okay. I'm trying to find an explanation for it. I'm not desensitized to it at all.

Chris, let me attack her at my own will. No, the, okay, we'll get into all this other stuff later. But growing up, like for breakfast, I would have a piece of toast with butter and Nestle's Quick on it. Or I'd have a toaster strudel with two packets of icing on it nestle's quick on toast it melts like the powder it melts into the butter oh that reminds me of that reminds me of the typical dutch breakfast which is bread butter and then fucking chocolate sprinkles really me yeah also good also lunch when i'm there in may we'll have that every morning chocolate Chocolate sprinkles on buttered bread.

Not paleo. Not paleo. That toast and Nutella. Never chocolate sprinkles. Chocolate sprinkles. Sounds amazing. It doesn't it? It's good.

It does. It sounds amazing. I'd eat like two bites and be like, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm fat. Yeah. But then like lunch, I'd go to the all cart line and get like an ice cream cone. For lunch? One of those pre-packaged Rice Krispie Treats. And I would dip the Rice Kris line and get like an ice cream cone and one of those pre-packaged rice krispy treats and I would dip the rice krispy treats into the ice cream cone if I was feeling

like something salty I'd get french fries and dip those into the ice cream cone awesome wait so when was this in high school yeah you just had like that young girl metabolism it didn't matter whatever you threw in the engine you just burned it off. When I was younger, everything was great, and then I turned 30. But before that. And then, like, my mom. I'm not going to show my mom this, so everything will be okay because she gets mad when I say this. But she didn't cook. And so, like, when we'd get home at night, we'd have a bowl of cereal for dinner. Or maybe you'd buy some of those. Not a gram of protein all day.

Yeah, you'd get those Otis Bunkmeyer cookies from the home ec classes. And you'd take those home, and I'd eat those for dinner or whatever. But Dad, who is now diabetic, of course, this all makes sense, would wake me up in the middle of the night, and we'd go eat frozen Snickers bars. I have a sweet tooth like nobody, nobody can compare to me in that. You have no idea. So I sit at work all day, and I look at brownies, and I look at cupcakes, and I have to say no to it.

So I understand. I understand better than anybody else. You sound like you're about to start crying. I know. This is like the most convincing thing I've ever heard in my life. You have no idea. Do you have the moments of weakness where you just fuck, I'm going to eat this whole tray of brownies.

10 o'clock at night, it was all closed up and you just crush the brownies does that ever happen uh only when i've had too much to drink no then it's okay no usually like you know a new category most of the time i've got something else that i can have that's not you know a brownie that i made at the shop like i've got some sort of paleo something that i can have that's going to satisfy that craving and it's going to keep me from eating a whole pan of brownies. Or if I eat a whole pan of brownies, it's paleo brownies. That's better.

Yes, it's better than regular brownies. Right. Outside of pastries, do you cook a lot? Yeah, I have to now. You just do a lot of, I mean, have you always been into cooking? Yeah, you know, and before paleo, I ate in a way that I thought was healthy. You know, now I have learned that it was not as healthy as I thought because I had whole grain pasta and whole grain bread. We enlightened you.

Yes. You know, I never, I never excluded gluten from my diet, but I didn't eat refined sugar. And so I was already used to not being able to have sweets. Like I've developed willpower over an amount of time. But I mean, yeah, there's still days when it's just like oh my god oh my god I'm gonna freak out if I don't have something sweet and so but like I said that's that's when you know paleo sweets and things like that come into play you know because it'll keep you from feeling like you need to have whatever's in front of you right at that moment because you

know you can have something else when you get home so it's all right yeah I want to talk about that I want to talk about some of the substitutions you've made and i know that you can find like paleo recipes like dessert recipes online but you've been taking recipes that you've already known or you find in books or something like that and you just you found really good substitutions yeah um the difference between a paleo recipe and a regular recipe is you have to understand that the different types of flour react differently and so it does take some play you know it takes you making something you know four and five times before you're going to get it right and that's fine or you can i'll post recipes and y'all can steal those and that's fine but like coconut flour coconut flour is fantastic for baked goods uh breads almond flour is great but when you use coconut flour you have to

understand that coconut flour soaks up a lot of moisture so you don't need as much of it as you would an all-purpose flour in a recipe and so it is something you have to play with uh refined sugar you can replace with honey i have found that honey is the best way to do it if you want to stay as close to paleo as possible coconut palm sugar works also uh maple syrup is all right sounds awesome yeah maple syrup is okay uh a lot of people use agave. I don't. Just because of what I've read, and I understand that I'm not an expert on it just yet. I read just like you guys do.

I look at studies and try to decipher what they're saying. But from what I've found with agave, the way that they refine it, the way that they process it the way that they process it increases the fructose by about 75 so although the glycemic index is really low do you know anything about this actually i'm not overly familiar with with agave specifically but if it's super high in fructose then it's going to have a super low glycemic index yeah but that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for you right it's just one way to measure how fast your blood sugar raises. Right. And so agave doesn't necessarily, it's, the glycemic index is low, but the fructose content is high, and so therefore it affects you negatively. Honey does not.

Because it's not, they don't process it. They don't really do anything to it. But you have to be careful, though. It's bee spit. You have to be careful, though, because they have, like, sham honey. They have fake honey. It is not honey. You have to get raw organic wildflower honey.

What is sham honey? If you turn it around and look at the ingredients, it's not honey. It says sham honey. You are being lied to. When the first ingredient is high fructose corn syrup in your honey, it might be a problem. That's probably a problem. Usually the darker the honey, the better

it's going to be. Darker the berry, the sweeter the juice. Tupac said this shit. Yep. Tupac, man. I get my honey at Easyway. It's a local produce place. Yeah.

It's got the stamp on it that says local and tells you like... You believe anything you read. Next county over. As long as it's raw honey, then you're safe and you're doing good. Because the glycemic index, the difference between the two, one is 30 and the other is 75. Really? It does make a huge difference. Huge difference.

I had no idea. Yeah. Honey being 30? Honey being real raw honey. Real raw local honey. That's good for your allergies and all that shit. Yeah. You can eat all you want, right?

No. Okay. But, you know, raw honey on its own, it still has vitamins. It has, you know, like minerals. Sugar has nothing. It has no nutritional value. When you just, like, dip a spoon in a thing of honey and just eat, like, a teaspoon of honey, it's the most amazing, flavorful experience you can possibly imagine.

That's got to be a correlation between all the awesomeness that it contains. Just sugar and agave and even maple syrup is just fucking boring sweetness, but honey is all this vibrancy. Vibrancy. Very creative. I think I ever just sat down and ate honey with a spoon.

You should. It's really good, but no, you probably should not just eat it with a spoon. That's probably bad. I used to catch my little brother getting honey out of the pantry and just, he'd just be pouring it into his mouth. What do you think, like, you know, picture like in the Discovery Channel, a bear like braving the nest and grabbing the honeycomb and running away with it and just eating it

and having this like orgasmic bear face on the whole time. But the, I was thinking about this the other day because like um i think it takes your it takes a minute for your palate to adjust to a paleo sweet because you're you know from when you're born you're fed artificial things and then you get to where that's what tastes good to you and i understand like i like candy bars too those are great but when you get to where you've eaten paleo for for a little while dark chocolate starts to taste better to you than a milk chocolate does dark chocolate i completely agree with that it has actual chocolate in it milk chocolate has a little bit of chocolate but mostly a bunch of other crap

i i do that that kroger brand not kroger brand i still like kroger i think the soda whole reason i was like 88 dark chocolate oh the animal it's awesome it's good it's awesome but now when i first started paleo, I thought it was crap. You thought it was bitter. I didn't like it. Right. Because when people first started coming to me and asking me to do paleo stuff, I would completely turn my nose up at it.

Same way I do with vegan stuff, which I still do with vegan stuff, because I like eggs. But I'm not scorning the way that they eat. I just don't want to cook that way. No, you can do that. Yeah. Scorn. Go ahead. Just scorn. Scorn go ahead scorn them but i just i had had things that were on the shelf that were advertised as paleo sweets

or treats or whatever and uh they tasted like cardboard to me i didn't like them and so you know being somebody that tries to always put out stuff that i feel like like if i want to eat it then i'll put it out and so the only way that I could find to be able to do this paleo thing is to put out stuff that I find appetizing. And so it took me some work and tweaking a whole bunch of recipes and doing things a different way for me to be at, like the stuff that they put out on the shelf, a lot of times I don't like the way that it's made, and it's made with agave, and I don't want to have agave,

and so I've had to do it my own way. And you'll see later the stuff that I made. I feel like it's a lot tastier than what you can find out like you know like what you find when you go to whole foods and you grab granola i'm sorry i probably should not have specifically said granola is that bad no they don't know this time you know it's all right hippies don't have computers but i mean like that a lot of the stuff is all right podcast man it's kind of like my hippie sister who's talking about how like money is bullshit and all this stuff money and then like a half hour okay I have out there without it well a half hour later with

the apple store and she's like I need a new charger for my computer I was like I'll buy you charger if you do some work for me shit well if you do some work for me well if you do some work for me she goes it's like that's how money works you think it's bullshit now she's like ah yeah uh 19 year old yeah semi-hippie you don't get it bro she she actually transcribes this podcast for me she's gonna hear this she's doing that for pay yeah okay well jesus was gonna shut down gloriously so you so you've now perfected a couple recipes through trial and error basically yeah and then uh also the uh like paleo doesn't really accept sweets they don't really accept any sugar sugar stuff like no honey no nothing so i say that it's primal but sometimes you can use the grass-fed butter

i mean okay stupid words you know this is what's funny uh it's awesome that you touched on that because i got a question just this week about what the difference between primal and paleo is and i'll let you finish but then we'll touch on that. Yeah. So in some of the stuff, I'll include grass-fed butter. But, you know, you have to make sure that people understand that there is grass-fed butter in there so that if they're trying to be super strictly paleo, they don't touch that. But if I'm going strictly paleo, I'll use either grapeseed oil, which, you know, you can research on it.

And it's not good to pan fry in. It's not good to have it super high temperatures, but it's fine if you're baking. And the baked goods come out a lot fluffier than if you use coconut oil. Or you can use coconut oil. You just have to understand that it'll be a little bit more dense. And so you just have to understand the way that things work so that when you start— What's the flavor of the grapeseed oil? It really doesn't have a flavor.

Good. It's a little buttery. I mean, it tastes— Well, I mean, coconut carries a heavy... If you don't want something to taste like coconut, you don't need to put coconut on it. No, the grapeseed oil,

it's a little buttery, but it's just a really... Not a bad thing? No, a really clean flavor. It's just something that's not going to affect the flavor of your sweets, which when you're using honey

and things like that, you have to be really careful what else you add because honey has a flavor. And so you don't want to tweak the flavor too much because then you're not going to taste the chocolate

or whatever else you've put into that baked good. I had someone ask, so they sent me, I was just out, you know, we accept general questions. And it was really interesting because I got a couple of nutrition questions shot to me this week when we were going to talk to you. So it was perfect timing. And one of the things they brought up was, you know, what's the difference between Primal and Paleo? And in my opinion, there's really not a difference. Self-prom what's the difference between primal and paleo and in my opinion there's really not a difference but mark mark system from mark's daily apple he did the primal

blueprint and all that kind of stuff so there's definitely like and and uh with his website and what he recommends he's a little bit looser and what he recommends so since he's been kind of the forefront of the primal movement, I really feel that's the case. A lot of people who follow his website, they're more into drinking organic red wine, and they'll eat the dark chocolate, and they're more into kind of sweet substitutes.

Living their lives. I've seen a lot of the people at our gym. Yeah, right. Well, a lot of the people at our gym. I can right. Well, a lot of the people at our gym. I can't say we're out on that. Caveman didn't have wine. They fucking did, dummy. People didn't drink alcohol forever.

Sure they did. Caveman didn't have honey. They fucking had honey. For as long as we got down from trees, found a fucking bee's nest, and ate the honey. What are you talking about? I think the argument on that is you might find honey once a month. It was a rare find.

It wasn't like an everyday in your coffee find. Yeah, it's not something you need to eat all the time. If you go to an argument, you can say you don't score meat every day. You don't score fresh vegetables every day. You spend a lot of the year if you're a caveman starving, fucking huddling in a cave. Where do the rationalizations have to stop and when you have to say i'm a modern person i have food all the time if i like it i can have it because i'm a grown-up i can have this a little bit i don't have to eat the whole fucking thing

oh you know primordial caveman didn't have this you don't you have no idea you don't know shit about caveman you read an ebook for 19 now you think you're a fucking master of anthropology you are not you have no idea the history of the world so shut up sometimes you just gotta say these things reading an ebook doesn't make you a master of anything five minutes of stating facts about caveman only to say no one knows anything about cavemen. Nobody knows anything about cavemen. Which is true.

They're all dead. They've all been dead a long time. But you probably agree. If you've looked at the difference between the two, most of it is going to be dairy and sugar. Yeah. And so the difference between the two. So a lot of people at the gym that say that they're paleo, they're really primal. But I just don't really see much difference between the two. So a lot of people at the gym that say that they're paleo, they're really primal. But I just don't really see much difference in the two.

There really isn't. I think the difference is like paleo is referring to a very specific era in time. And then primal is just like, we're just talking about early man in general. Yeah. But it's mostly a marketing thing. Like we all, you know, we all do our best. But, you know, people like me, I'm always going to have to have a little bit of something sweet in my diet.

Thank you. Richard Westbrookok ladies and gentlemen wine refill yeah that's a fancy word wish you had used my name because if they're driving i'm liable i mean oh i'm not drunk no no we're gonna barefoot run home if anybody crashes we won't post this episode. How often do you eat paleo treats, like something that's sweet, since you have that insane sweet tooth? Really, maybe twice a week I'll have something directly after my workout. Okay.

Within that 30-minute period where you're supposed to be allowed to have something that's a little bit bad for you, then I'll have something directly after my workout. Otherwise, I usually use a cheat meal on Sunday and cheat meal includes dessert. Cool. Yeah, right after you work out, that's probably the best time to eat something like that. Well, because I had somebody tell me. I like how she interpreted that.

Well, no, I had somebody tell me that, okay, you're allowed to have whatever you want to have after your workout for 30 minutes. And so, like, okay. For the record, I'm not the one who said that. You didn't say that. But no, I misinterpreted the way that they were saying it. If you're going to have it, that's probably the best time. Right. If you're going to have a piece of cheesecake,

if you need to have a piece of cheesecake, have it right after your workout. Well, so I took that very literally. I did, yeah. If it's got to happen. So for like two days in a row. I was thinking if we were going to eat like half a sweet potato, then like 30 minutes post-workout would be a good time to do it.

And somehow you got cheesecake out of it. So two days in a row. Sweet potato cheesecake. After my workout, I stopped at the gas station. Oh my God. And got like cookies and candy bars. 92. And it did really bad.

But this was because they said that. So anyway, continuing on. Shut up, Chris. So I thought about it for a minute. I like holy crap this makes no sense like if i'm trying to follow paleo and then every day after my workout i'm putting a bunch of man-made chemicals and crap into my body then obviously this is not the kind of treat they were talking about counterproductive yeah very counterproductive as are cigarettes, which I also have stopped. Thank you.

Thank you. It's been like a month. It's awful. It's great. By the way, folks, she's been eating Primal or Paleo for longer than she's been quitting cigarettes.

Cigarettes have only been about a month. Doug, what's your view on using a little like nicotine patch or gum as a, as a, been about a month. Doug, what's your view on using a little nicotine patch or gum as almost like a supplement? That's a pretty powerful ergogenic agent, right? I guess I never really thought about it. You're talking about for quitting smoking? No, no, no.

You're talking about for performance? Yeah, utilizing it for the kick it gives. Because, I mean, generally speaking, it's sort of like kind of the same vein of caffeine, right? It gives you a little bit of head buzz, focus, primes the body a bit. I think I've heard people using nicotine patches for performance. That's never even crossed my mind. I've actually read quite a bit about that. Kind of a brilliant idea. There's a lot of guys that actually...

Drugs like caffeine and stuff, I mean, they're full-fledged drugs, but they are marvelous. There's a lot of guys... actually drugs like caffeine and stuff i mean they're full-fledged drugs but they are marvelous there's a lot of start taking the patches i'm gonna have to start smoking to quit the patches i mean i think most of the addiction is the oral fixation get the get the gum a lot of guys do this they'll take a lot of caffeine on a daily basis for performance purposes well before they get too desensitized to the caffeine they switch to the nicotine they'll do like a nicotine gum. And you can just go buy that over the counter. And they take that for a while,

and they go back and forth between the caffeine and nicotine so they don't ever become too desensitized. Brian Schilling sent me a bunch of stuff on it a while back. And I would have sure thought that you were including that email. I don't think there's anything terribly overly wrong with just nicotine. Actually, it's kind of in there with uh caffeine there's i mean nothing really wrong it's it's the other stuff that you find in a cigarette that is so harmful or dipping uh yeah stupid shit you do tobacco yeah i just did a lot of that that was a mistake fyi audience go out get some nicotine gum all you're 18 or older

I don't know I've never really smoked or dipped so even though I know nicotine gives you a little bit of a buzz I've never really thought about it

as being performance enhancing in any way I used to smoke three cigarettes on the way to the gym at a girl amrap cigarettes driving to the gym

I wonder if there's like it just cancels itself out. I'm all hyped up, but I can't breathe either. Covered in flour, listening to Motley Crue, jamming. How long is that drive? For my house.

It was chain smoking. If I was coming from Arkansas, it was four. If I was coming from the shop, it was three. Just from Midtown? Yeah, just from Midtown. Was that 20 minutes? 20 minutes.

Man, you are sucking those down. Yeah, it was a pretty serious problem. That's almost like wearing a gas mask when you train. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah, pretty much. You know, it makes it harder to breathe, so it makes the training more effective, right? There you go.

Yeah. And this was very, it was fantastic during the winter because we didn't run. didn't run now we're back to running so i'm kind of glad i didn't we don't run a lot of faction i wonder how close to to to baking like how close baking is to like riding like usually the best riders are guys who are fucking one cigarette after another just the habit and the fueling the brain and the warm bath of nicotine and pounding some some booze it seems like certain lifestyles just yeah like anybody very well with anybody that elicit activities most people that cook smoke yeah usually most chefs that you meet good chefs are they they'll go outside and have a cigarette that's your shift like at 10 or 10

or 11 whatever then your your night like starts i't get that. They go out and party all night. Smoking will mess up your ability to taste. Yeah, I know. So how does that work with someone who makes a living on flavor? It's just one of those things that you completely ignore. You're like, yeah, I like cigarettes a lot. Are you going to stand up behind a stove for a busy service of a couple hours and covering 300 tables

or whatever and you're not going to be jazzed up on some sort of drug? No, it's just one of those things where if you cook. Cocaine is the natural choice.

Well, that too. You do coke and you smoke. Adderall. You got to mix everything you got. You got to keep it going. You got to spin

all those plates. One drug, not enough. I think maybe that's why it is. It's a high stress job and so a lot of times you get slammed. You get a whole bunch of stuff going on all at once and you get through all of that. It's a high-stress job. A lot of times you get slammed. You get a whole bunch of stuff going on all at once,

and you get through all of that. Have you ever read Kitchen Confidential? Yeah, Anthony Bourdain will tell you. I would love to read it because I love No Reservations. That's my favorite person in the world, besides my son and my wife. I'd like to hang out with Anthony Bourdain. Yeah, absolutely.

We should have him on the show. Hey, Tony, if you're listening maybe eventually maybe get more famous lots more famous so we talked a little bit about ingredients substitutions for paleo is there anything you think you may have left out no

if you look at a recipe it's going to have eggs, it's going to have sugar it pretty much, if you look at a recipe, it's going to have eggs, it's going to have sugar, it's going to have some sort of oil or fat, it's going to have flour. And so as long as you use those things that I've given you to substitute with and you understand that it's probably not going to come out right the first time,

then you're good to go. Like, just go and buy the stuff and play. You know, like tweak your recipes. And there are a lot of of paleo recipes online and just the way that i suggest to do it is just the same way that i did it try it once the way they wrote it try it one time the way they wrote it and say it doesn't come out sweet enough we'll add some more of whatever the sweetener is or say like if they use an oil that you don't like use a different one play with it you know you can play with it as much as you want to. You can add stuff to it.

There's no end to what you can do with the stuff that you can find online, and God knows there's a ridiculous amount of stuff that you can find. So, I mean, it's just something that you have to be willing to spend some time with. It's not as easy as putting some kale and some garlic and some coconut oil in a pan and cooking it up. It's going to take a little bit of work and you have to understand how things operate. What about other non-pastry related substitutions? Like I know a lot of people make cauliflower rice, for example.

Do you have any other little tricks like that you use to make like more dinner type meals that's not dessert related? Okay. My favorite meal ever on the planet. Paleo chicken and waffles. There go i'm so arkansas that makes me feel very southern um i thought chicken and waffles was a huge joke when i first moved to the south they were like we need chicken and waffles i was like man that's really funny no way like no you're looking at me and then he was totally serious he wants chicken and waffles he's looking confused i've never heard this in. He wanted chicken and waffles. I'm from here. He's looking confused. I've never heard this in my entire life.

Chicken and waffles? You've never had chicken and waffles? I've lived in Memphis for over a decade collectively. Oh, my God. I was recently heard about that. How does this happen? What? Oh, it's fantastic.

Well, it's also... Isn't there like a whole chain named after chicken and waffles? Yeah. It's also big in LA. Also big in any real urban area. Watch me go to California next week, and I'll eat it there. But waffle, big chunk of fried chicken, syrup poured all over. Oh, it's awesome.

It's so good. That actually does kind of sound pretty good. It is. Salty and sweet. And you can do that paleo super easy. How do you do that? Of course, I like fried food. Love fried food.

And so you can do this with any protein, really, any meat that you want to. Because I like fried pork chops. I like fried shrimp. I like all that stuff. So instead of using regular flour, use coconut flour. Do not use almond flour. It will burn immediately. It's awful.

But just coconut oil. Just put a little bit more in the pan. And then you're going to pan fry, so you need a little bit of oil in the pan. You roll the protein, whatever it may be, in an egg wash and then in coconut flour. What's an egg wash? Dummy. I don't know anything. Just some beaten eggs. Just beaten eggs.

The egg sticks to the protein. The flour sticks to the egg. Right. Perfect. I've never fried anything like that before. You can put on Tweetin. I don't know what I'm doing. Again, you're from Memphis. You've never fried anything like that before. So you can put on tweet and... I don't know what I'm doing. Again, you're from Memphis.

You've never fried anything. I know. God. He has women to do that for him. My mom's from the West. She's from out West. So she... I don't know.

I guess I just didn't get exposed properly. Clueless, man. You can... I will fry you chicken. Shut up, Chris. She told me. I know a lot of. Shut up, Chris. She told me. I know a lot of girls that just cheered while watching this. Snap.

They were like, woo, go Brandy. I didn't mean it, Chris. I didn't mean it. I'm sorry. But I was saying. I just laughed like a girl into the microphone. Hey, tell him to shut up, Brandy. He's talking too.

So if it's shrimp or something like that, you can add unsweetened coconut to the coconut flour and then you can have coconut fried shrimp or coconut fried chicken but you don't have to do that. Otherwise, it's just egg wash and then coconut flour and then you fry it in the pan and it's awesome. It is awesome. And then the waffle recipe is posted it's on the the faction paleo recipes page it's coconut flour waffles they're fantastic like when you cook them you can smell like you smell pancakes you smell

pancakes cooking in your house because coconut flour has kind of an innate sweetness without having to add any sugar to it and so so... You're a big old cockroach. Oh! Oh! Holy crap. Get that on the shot. You're going to embarrass the host. It's okay.

That didn't really happen. But no, so that's my biggest thing. It's like just having a way to be able to pan fry stuff. And so you still feel like you're getting the comfort of southern food like you can make meatloaf i said this before before i ever started paleo i feel like people that try to eat in a in a way that's healthy whether it be gluten-free or not they don't have a lot of options and so you uh you end up driving past mcdonald's and wendy's and all these places and you can't stop there. Even if you stop there and you get a salad with some grilled chicken on it, it's not chicken.

That's not chicken. You don't want to eat that. And so people that are trying to eat really good foods, they're so limited, and so you end up having to cook for yourself all the time. Well, the only way for me personally to make that something that I'm going to do is to make sure that when I'm at work at noon and I'm thinking about dinner, it's something I want to go home and eat. It's not tuna in a can with mustard on it, which I still do sometimes when I'm pressed for time.

I've done that in a long time. But, you know, like you want to make sure it's something you look forward to because, you know, although food is not something that you're really supposed to just have. Don't mind me. Okay. Not paying any attention. Good. So anyway. There you go.

Whoa. Be careful. He's just swinging that phallic thing around. We're good. We're all good. So anyway, like food is not necessarily something you're supposed to have in celebration. Food is something you're supposed to have to fuel your body.

But we're a culture that's conditioned to understand food is something that you use like it's a comfort it's something that you use for celebrations it's you know it's a fun thing and so you've got to make sure that you can continue to do that and be paleo at the same time because otherwise i don't think you're going to stick to the paleo diet we want to be able to go and go to a tailgate party and still eat paleo and there are plenty of ways to do that. And so you don't have to go home and feel like you're not satisfied. There are plenty of ways to have all the same foods that you've had and do them in a way that's paleo.

Sure. Potlucks and growing out like tailgating, that's when I get the best paleo food. Yeah. Grilling meat and vegetables, love it. Yeah, and I can go home and get a can of wild caught tuna and put some mustard on top of it and eat some kale I can do that it's fine it's alright

but at the very least I know that tomorrow night if I've got a little bit of extra time I can have paleo meatloaf and cauliflower mashed potatoes and maybe that doesn't sound great to somebody that doesn't eat paleo, but if you've had it. It's better than the alternative. It's better than the regular version.

That's what I'm saying. Like if you've actually had it. And like I was saying before, like how our palates are conditioned to appreciate unnatural foods. But once you start to eat paleo, you start to realize that dark chocolate tastes like chocolate. Honey tastes amazing. Like it just takes a second for your palate to adjust.

And so with these, like the paleo sweets that we're going to try later, it's a bridge. Yeah. It's like a bridge for people that, you know, have never eaten that kind of stuff. Their palates are not adjusted.

They still want milk chocolate. They still want things with a ton of refined sugar in them. You give them something that's in between the two. You give them something that tastes like what they're used to but i mean it's it's got all the paleo ingredients it's a shame too because when you're so used to eating like milk chocolate when you when you get beyond that and you go you move on to 70 or better and you realize all the the more complex flavor profiles in that dark chocolate you realize that your your life before was just a sham.

You had dirty glasses on. You had the veil drawn. You didn't realize just how great chocolate could be. So it's really changing people's perspective, getting beyond this old way of thinking. It's insane. People turn their nose up at it because it's just, they've got,

they like pixie sticks. If you like pixie sticks, you don't like food. But when you get used to it, when you have like, when you have like a big chunk of like high quality roasted pork and like Brussels sprouts

and cauliflower mash and then you go try to eat like a fucking Big Mac, you're like, what is this shit? Right. This is not food. This is nothing.

But, you know, people do it like three times a day eating this stuff. I go, this is shocking to me. Well, and you know, like I've said this before, like a lot of the paleo ingredients that you buy for sweets and things like that, they're not, they're not cheap there.

I mean, they're, they're not cheap. And so it's one of those things where, you know, say you don't want to buy an entire pound of coconut flour and you don't want to go and buy grapeseed oil and all this other crap that you have to buy in order to make paleo sweets. So we want to make sure that there are options for those people that they can just grab and take with them. It's like paleo, pre-made paleo, stuff like that,

for people that don't necessarily have a whole lot of time to cook. It is delicious. It's the first free plug you've gotten, Richard. Your product is fantastic. You son of a bitch. It is awesome. but it's because there's nothing that's convenient for paleo for people that are trying to eat paleo or gluten-free there's not a lot of stuff out there like roasting soup is not convenient yeah no i mean it takes a lot of time and so you know it's not like you can just you know run around the corner to whatever fast food place and grab you something to eat you can't

and so maybe one you're you're thinking about filling that market aren't you of course i am you're gonna you're gonna start selling some paleo treats here in town yes yes definitely maybe not call them paleo treats i think that's taken but we're gonna call them something else paleo we're gonna come up with a name for it goodies yeah definitely because like i think it's really important to have something that's convenient for people because maybe somebody like they want they're gonna go home they going to cook this big old paleo meal and they don't necessarily want to take the two hours it's going to take you know to make the cake that they need and so when they walk out of the gym or walk out of wherever they can grab a couple of pieces of cake and take it home with them and that's awesome that's fantastic watch

Grey's Anatomy and drink red wine of course not organic red wine yes what is what is this what is organic red wine I've this what is organic red wine I've had it once sounds like a way to put an extra $10 on the price of the bottle probably so it was alright brilliant business plan Caitlin Mills she tweeted me

she asked if you were going to ship to South Bend I'll ship to wherever she would like for me to ship to Caitlin has whatever she wants Caitlin get She asked if you were going to ship to South Bend. I'll ship to wherever she would like for me to ship to. Caitlin has whatever she wants. Caitlin get. She'll be excited about that. No, Caitlin needs to come to the shop.

Yes. She's one of the few people that will actually come in shop and sit down and eat something and not yell at me for bringing stuff to the gym. If you start up this bakery, we will go and we will tell ourselves that there's absolutely nothing wrong with eating this. I will crush a whole cake. We'll feel great about it and you will be rich. Well, and I'll say this also, like some of the stuff that's on the market now, um, I mean, we're not stupid, you know, of course, a lot of the paleo sweets that are out there are not necessarily balanced. You know, it's a lot of fat, it's a lot of, you know, sugars and stuff like that. And so something else that I've done, I'm trying to do is incorporate more protein into the baked goods that we

make. So like you can use protein powders, extra eggs, things like that. Just something to sort of work your, work your way into. It's never going to be completely balanced, but making it more balanced than the stuff that you can get on the shelves

and still making it taste better. You're going to try the new whey protein we got in. Sure. I will. do i get it for free if you bring me some from some paleo treats okay i will give you the whey protein what is dude they're on the counter what is this new uh protein powder you speak describe it uh defense nutrition you put it on facebook it's not a secret uh it's defense nutrition uh it's like cold press protein whey protein powder grass-fed cows uh you know because it's cold press it hasn't

ever been exposed to too much heat it actually shipped with like an ice pack um to help keep it cool uh but the idea is that it's you know non-denatured protein and stuff like that overall i guess the idea is that cheaper protein powdenatured protein and stuff like that. So I guess the idea is cheaper protein powders are byproducts of the dairy industry and have been processed and heated and denatured? Yeah, I'm not exactly sure what the other guys are doing. But after talking to Brad Pope and Chris Wark in previous shows, I was pretty convinced that we need to seek out maybe a small organization that was more transparent where we were.

And they were making claims, and it was easy to like, hey, really track them down and look at those claims. And this particular company specifically, Chris Wark already did a lot of the research. He vouches for them. Chris Wark vouches for the defense nutrition guys. So I've been using a protein powder for a little bit and now we're selling it in our facility we might we might even put a link up so you can buy

it have you tried it yet have you tried it what do you think i've been i've been using it for like three months i like it a lot so what i what i do is uh for during and after training i pour uh coconut water over about 30 grams of the whey protein and i get the vanilla flavor and it's not real strong because it doesn't have oh the other thing is it does not have sucralose in it so overly sweet yeah and i've tried other non-sucralose that was actually the driving factor for me going to this company is the fact that it did not have sucralose in it and uh i've tried some other proteins that didn't have sucralose, and it was disgusting. I didn't like it at all.

This stuff, very smooth. It's not gritty. And it tastes really good. And it's not overpowering like vanilla proteins are. Anyways, they also sell not just vanilla, but they sell like a plain. Yeah. It doesn't have very much flavor. So that might be a better shot for you. Yeah, what I've been using so far

has been the unflavored. Yeah. I mean, you can use vanilla. It's not really going to affect the flavor too much when it comes to sweets and stuff like that. But what I have bought and used has been the unflavored. And like I said,

it's just trying to find some way to sort of balance the profile of what I'm putting out. So that it's not all fat and all sugar. You've got some protein involved. What's the name of it? Warrior Way? Warrior Way? Warrior Way.

Why use Warrior? The guy who, it's actually the guy who started, who's involved with the supplement company. He's the one that wrote the Warrior Diet. And so that's why it's Warrior Way. It's just there's that association. The Warrior Diet,

I tried that. Oh really? Yeah, you came and talked to me about it. For a minute. I was like, that's silly. You're like, you came and talked to me about it. For a minute. I was like, that's silly. You're like, well, I'm going to try it. And I was like, okay. And then you came back to me the next day and was like, it's terrible.

No, I feel like it's a way for, I understand what they're saying and I get it. But I'm not one of those people. You have a four-hour window at night where you can eat as much as you want. Or not as much as you want. You're supposed to pack in as much as you can in those four hours and i would eat one big huge meal and then i would go back and i can't eat anymore binge on this diet yeah like i can't eat anymore and so i couldn't i couldn't eat as much protein as i was supposed to have throughout the period of the day in that four hour period and so it just it wasn't going

to work for me because i mean it would make me sick. I couldn't eat anymore. And so I don't know if it's for people that lift more weight and maybe have a bigger appetite than I do. Sounds a lot like what Art Devaney does. Art Devaney doesn't eat very much during the day. He has a crazy training session, and then he devours like five pounds of meat or something like that, and he's like 70-something years old and in fantastic shape. I have two chicken breasts and I cannot eat anymore.

I'm done. Let me, from a, I guess from a primal slash paleo perspective. You just said that we don't know. We don't know. Shut up and let me make my point. I would,

if I had to guess, if I had my druthers, that's probably more accurate that you would, you know, if you wouldn't find a steady stream of food throughout the day. You'd maybe find a big chunk of something and eat it.

And you'd eat it until it was gone. Our divinity's idea is that if you were going to eat meat, you probably had to work for it first. So he'll go out in his driveway and push his Land Rover around, and then he'll go eat. Very primal. This guy's struggling just like a caveman. I had to work by pushing my $90,000 SUV up my driveway.

I ate 10 pounds of fucking grass-fed meat. Golly. What is the deal? You were talking about it's loaded with fat and carbs, essentially. Another question I got was talking about zone and paleo zone why we don't see like zone used as much you're probably not as familiar but i want to touch on it since it was one of the questions that was shot to me this week and a little crossfit history zone was like the uh diet of choice for crossfit headquarters and it still is uh they brought in rob wolf for a

while who started doing paleo. And he actually started doing some seminars for CrossFit headquarters. And he was putting like a paleo spin on very serious stuff, which was cool. So he was calling it Paleo Zone. But since Rob Wolf and CrossFit headquarters don't exactly get along anymore, Rob kind of just went off and started calling it Paleo. And kind of got away from calling it paleo zone. And he always thought it was kind of silly that it was like very specific ratios. And it is kind of silly because a different, you talked about doing this, eating some of this stuff right after you work out. So the ratios that would be most ideal after you train

are different than the ratios right before you go to bed or when you wake up in the morning and stuff like that. So a lot of you that have heard about paleo zone and stuff like that, it's just, that's kind of the history of it. Um, most people who are highly competitive don't follow zone. And if they do say they follow zone, it's usually like I do zone, but four times fat and twice the protein. I'm like, no, no, you're just saying that you weigh and measure your food. That's not zone. So, um,

I just want to touch on that before we take a break. And what we're going to do now is we're going to go, you're going to show us some cooking stuff in the kitchen. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go ahead and do our plugs real quick. And then we'll finish off with brandy's uh

kitchen show so uh make sure to check out fitter.tv that's fitr.tv that's where we're hosting barbell shrug spelled differently spelled cool and uh that's where technique wad is being hosted now so both of them are hosted there and you'll see a variety of we actually have a nutrition seminar on the site that you can purchase if you'd like that's right i finally got the faction or excuse me the fitter store up that's right boom actually on that note we uh we have a new opt-in form on on the website so if you want to get our newsletter so you can stay up to date with all the um you know fitter upcoming events and all the products that we're putting on there and then links to

things like Brandy's new paleo treats. You can sign up for our newsletter and we'll periodically send you updates on anything and everything to do with fitter.

You'll be in the loop. Very much so. All right, let's take a break and then we can go get some good food from Brandy. Okay. Yay!

They don't get to plug anything? No. I guess not, bro. I feel doug just did the job for me oh okay yeah we're gonna go chris more blog.com chris more blog.com uh you ratchet up to massive quality quantities of omega omega-3s by fish oil is ratchet down your omega-6 intake. So fewer nuts, zero industrial seed oils. And so that's a more rational strategy if you're going for the long-term health effect.

And keep in mind, there's no certainty in any of that. You just have to make your best guess. And then as you're doing that, look for the signs and symptoms that you might be able to identify that would tell you you've improved your health in some way or another. For me, for example, I cannot, I have to be super careful about my intake of fish oil because I have a joint, you termed it once, tuna fish knee, but essentially it's where when I get too much fish oil, I get a little wrap on my knuckle or I do a couple of pull-ups that pulls across the knuckle of my index finger and the joint will swell enormously. In fact, if I get it on this finger, which I have several times, it'll swell so big, the ring will get trapped on my ring finger and I can't pull it off and it hurts like a mofro. So, you know, this is not a, this is not a characteristic of health for me. So I really

have to be careful for that specific reason. I think it has to do more with, you know, some individual genetic thing that I'm susceptible to. I've also heard increased bruising risk and bleedability, right? Sure. Well, and that goes with the concept of fish oil, which is that it tends to make your bloodstream slipperier, has an anticoagulant effect, which could be why it's helpful if you've got too much of an inflammatory effect. So this begs the question. So assuming you go, okay, look, I recognize that I'm not going to be frying

any catfish and vegetable oil. Fuck that. I'm moving towards cooking with coconut or I'm cooking with a little bit of olive oil at low temperature. Right. I'm trying to

minimize the oxidative effect. I don't always get pastured meat because I can't afford it. But most of the time I'm trying to eat grass-fed products or good quality products. So assuming that you got a good baseline handle on your diet, for the average person, how much fish oil should be necessary, sub-mite-wise?

One more caveat. This person, not me, doesn't really eat fish because fish is fucking gross. Like Jim Gaffigan said, I'm trying this whole vegetarian thing, but I do eat beef and I do eat chicken and pork, but not fish because fish is gross. Well, you know, you're you're you just have to take a swag at it. There's no certainty about it. But one to three grams a day, one to three caps a day, which is going to be up to a gram of fish oil. Seems to me like that's a rational preventative dose. Going to help you at least get enough that you don't have to, you're not going to be short of omega-3s.

And as long as you're not quaffing down massive, you know, large quantities of omega-6s, you should get the balanced ratio of the 3s to 6s. And where that comes in is there are populations that are healthy, paleolithic populations that are healthy, that have extremely low intakes of omega-6s and omega-3s, which indicates that it's not so much that you need a whole big quantity of omega-3s to be healthy, it's just you need the balance. Right, you just don't want a huge imbalance in ratio.

You don't want a 20 to 1 ratio like most people have. Right, and to be clear, some of these guys, like Rob was making pretty big prescriptions in that calculator about how many you should be taking. At one point, it was like with a high-quality supplement, taking like 20 plus pills a day. 10 or 15 grams of fish oil. I think one of the active ingredients.

It's a lot of fish oil. And I actually listened to the explanation on why they were prescribing that. And part of that was people were eating zone and were eating a lot higher carbohydrate. They were getting more inflammation. I think they were just trying to offset it with more good fats. Strongly counter, perhaps make up ground. Yeah, exactly. They were trying to increase the fat intake,

and they wanted to increase the fat intake with good fats. So the lesson is moderation is best. So as far as like, do you know why flaxseed would not be as effective as fish oils? Fish oils are what they call long branch chain amino or long branch chain essential fatty acids. So they're 18 carbon length or some such. So you take flaxseed and it is an omega-3 fatty acid, but it's a short chain of fatty acids. So it's probably good to keep you from, say, omega-3 starvation, but it's not good for making the, if you'll take the term, the land of omega-3 milk and honey.

It's a way of sort of scraping by. It's like if you're starving, well, freaking eat corn and grain, right? Because it's better it's a way of sort of scraping by it's like if you're starving well freaking eat corn and grain right right because it's better than starving right but it's not really nutritious the argument the argument that i've seen is that we have enough um our bodies will convert that flaxseed oil to the omega-3s that we need and no more so that so that that the concern is that our body will do the job of converting that short chain um to the long branch chain yeah as needed as needed so that we don't get too much and that may be true and this is where this is where i really think this has been my problem with a lot of the fish oil speculation from the beginning is it's great to speculate and it's

great to think about it and it's great to test it in a clinical environment and on yourself, but there's no certainty. And so, you know, until the science gets another hundred years down the road and can tell us the things that it certainly can't tell us up to now, you're, you're fishing around. You're just taking it. It's kind of like we were talking about programming. And I think the only thing that that would be wrong is to pretend that you really know the right answer when you're dealing with the people that are asking you for your help we talked about this a little bit with uh a couple weeks ago that think about like with this like we talk about with breast milk and trying to replicate what is in

this regular breast milk right there's all these things which we know that are in there we try to replicate it we do it badly yeah there's all the these things which we know that are in there. We try to replicate it. We do it badly. Yeah. There's all the things you don't know are in there. That's right. Yeah. The same thing about vitamin D supplementation

versus just getting it from the sun. So if you think about how... Right. Yeah. If you think about how plants and animals came to be and the long period of time it's taken you to get in your present form, we know that there has been a long series of fights

and battles that have given you the ability to fight off infection there has been a long series of fights and battles that have given you the ability to fight off infection or if it's given a plant the ability to fight off an invading plant you know these these plants do incredible battle with each other with their root structures and it can be you look at if you look at a forest they got as much as fucking stupid trees these trees like why are trees tall trees fight other trees it's slower and slower progress but plants are brutal with other plants they fight and fight

and fight if you look at your front lawn you're fighting a fight every time you mow your lawn because you're basically fighting on behalf of the grass

so the trees don't grow and block out the sun from the grass but you can take advantage of everything in a plant when you eat it you know the great history of the plant

but you don't have to understand it but if you try to duplicate what's in the plant with your current knowledge you would never the plant but you don't have to understand it but if you try to duplicate what's in the plant with your current knowledge you would never get close right you don't have to necessarily know to understand and trust in the the biological legacy of a pasture-raised chicken egg or a organically grown batch of baby spinach you know that that's good it doesn't matter so much that you understand so i try to get my food from you know a farm where you know there's not just one single thing being grown and yeah you know all the they've got a lot of different animals and they're all eating each other's shit you have to explain now when you say i get my food from a farm you have to define like

like it like a target amazing target like the farmer's choice? You know, farm. At Target, right? No, no. You got me on a... I mean, I go to a farm for food. What do you mean? Well, I go to some place where a group of people grow animals

with feed that they raise on the farm. Or the grass they grow. Chickens run around and cows run around or whatever. You have to say, no, not like injecting

chained up cows with biotoxins and shit, but you have to say, no, not like injecting chained up cows with biotoxins and shit, but you have to explain and define what a fucking three-year-old knows what a farmer is. But people forget what a farmer is. What's in the children's book version. Yeah, that E-I-E-I-O motherfuckers.

That kind of farmer. Well, in that line, at the risk of revealing what a true geek I am, if you go back and look at the Greeks, the overriding theme in the literature of the Greeks that we know of is the idea of hubris and the idea of men attempting to do those things which are truly the realm of the gods. So what I love about that is not that i really give a shit about the greeks it's just that i i think that the idea if once you glom onto it you see it

everywhere you see the hubris of trying to make baby formula you see the hubris of programmers saying they actually know their programming is better than somebody else's you see the hubris of anybody in the government saying they have any idea what's really going to happen when they change a law it's just everywhere it's it's ubiquitous it's part and parcel of the human experience only we don't think of it as hubris anymore we think of it as hey we're just that badass and so so we must so when somebody stands up and says yeah we're going to fix health care everybody goes oh great it's so great somebody we're going to fix health care, everybody goes, oh, great. It's so great. Somebody's finally going to take control of that thing and make it work.

Come on. It turns out it's kind of complicated. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it's really great that cliches are cliches for very good reasons. Like people keep saying over and over again, like, your money won't buy you happiness. People go, yeah, yeah, I understand. But I want my money, man.

I want a lot of money. Yeah. I want a lot of money. Yeah, but the things that are most obvious to you are most obvious to you because they're the things that you will struggle so much assimilating. Yeah. Like,

yeah, things are complicated. If anybody steps up and goes, I know exactly how everything works. Aren't I blessed? Aren't I the fortunate one? You should come over here and hang out with me.

Don't you realize how fucking complicated things are? If you're just taking two seconds from your pathetic life That's why the first time I hear Take two seconds from your pathetic life Just to go outside and look at the sky And go wow shit it's really complicated Earth's really small

My favorite politicians are the ones that go I really don't know I should probably let the free market decide Yeah That's why I like those politicians Same reason More people just need to admit, they just

say out loud, I don't know, and stop right there. Because it's okay. Because there's a lot of shit that you just don't know. There you go.

Yeah. There's no shame in that. Awesome. To answer your question, we circle back and close off the first thing you brought

up, which was the vegetable oil drinking. Are you ready for another one? The only way i could close off more on the whole fish oil thing is to do your own experimenting so if you if you could take if you can eat flax seeds which i never have and don't feel very tempted to and you feel like you're getting uh appropriate inflammatory response you know you fight off disease when you need to but you're not all uh inflamed and sore and feel like you need to take ibuprofen all the time. Well,

then you're probably doing all right. Yeah. I actually cover all my bases. First thing in the morning, two tablespoons of flax seed, coffee grinder in the smoothie, and then fish oil the rest of the day. If you,

I can't tell anything. If you're just take it all. If you've been participating in this discussion, that means you're probably one of like 2% of people who are better off than 98% of humanity who doesn't give a shit, doesn't even think about this ever. You're right. So just having a discussion is a good sign. If you're following this and participating, you're probably doing okay.

You're taking some fish oil. And if you see Chris, he'll probably give you a gold star. Yeah, I'll give you two gold stars. High fives. Paul was alluding to maybe the government not knowing everything and controlling. Shit. Sorry, Justin.

I had to hang up on you. And to be fair, that goes for all members of government because a lot of them are clueless. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Most of them are. So, in my opinion. But so this, what was it? Taco Bell.

No, it was McDonald's and their. Pink slime? The chicken nugget pink slime. I think we talked about this before. Anyways, they got, they were put on the news and they had to come out and say, hey, we'll never do that again. What was the news? I've seen it on the news before. I think it ran viral on Facebook.

Was it Facebook? It happened this time around. Facebook shook them up. I've seen that ten times on the news. It seems to be a running problem for the media. They're not doing a very not nearly as good of a job as

Facebook and stuff like that. If you want to know what's going on, you go to Reddit or BuzzFeed and you see what people are talking about. I just go on Twitter and I follow who I like. I guess the same pink slime that McDonald's got in a lot of shit over is now headed for the public school system. So they're going to implement it there.

And a million tons is what the news story says. Coming to a cafeteria in New York. So the first thing I think of is, okay, the shit storm went down. When did that story break? Let's just assume it's been at least like two months ago, right? Trying to bring it up right now. So it's been storm went down. When did that story break? Let's just assume it's been at least like two months ago, right? Trying to bring it up right now.

So it's been like at least two months since that story broke. Oh, you're talking about the McDonald's one. Like McDonald bailed on that like two months ago, right? Yep.

So one has to assume there's been a pile of pink slime stuff sitting somewhere frozen. So basically, McDonald's was going about their business of pureeing whole chickens

and then dousing it in the equivalent of bleach. And then packaging it up into little chicken-shaped morsels. Is that why it tasted so good? Deep frying it in fucking cheap vegetable oil. It tastes good when you dip it in honey and mustard. Coated in corn syrup solids. What the fuck?

And people were eating it, eating it, eating it. And I said, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa. People know what we're doing now. Big time now, bro. So we have to stop. They make a formal announcement. We're not doing this no more. So one battle is won.

The market eventually worked. One battle is won. But now there's this pile of shit in a warehouse. This cheap pink slime. Who are they going to sell it to? So now, like, two months later, the government says,

I know. We'll take that pureed chicken that's been sitting there for two months with bleach and we'll feed it to kids. That's why I tell people... Who also aren't learning shit in school, but now they're being fed shit in school little opposite situation there's pretty awesome yeah so i mean that i mean that goes more further into like the whole free market solution

yeah is that it people voted with their dollars with mcdonald's mcdonald's goes shit people about to vote with their dollars and we're going to lose a lot and then the government so we'll sell it to the government for 50 cents on the dollar humbling bureaucracy that to vote with their dollars and we're going to lose a lot. And then the government... So we'll sell it to the government for 50 cents on the dollar. This big, bumbling bureaucracy that they vote with your dollar. I think you're looking at it wrong. They can wait years to make any change because people get voted out

slowly and all that kind of stuff. So here's the actual... How much is chicken nuggets? Only 99 cents, maybe. No. Like a six pack? Like a 10 piece. I'm not talking about your dog.

You would know. I don't know. Probably like 399. 399. I hear you, brother. So now you're telling me I can get the same. Let's not make a mistake. They're fucking delicious.

Flat out awesome. I agree. If you eat them without the honey and mustard, it is not delicious. Come on. Close your mouth. Close your mouth. But the thing is, it's $3.99. We'll take that.

So now you're telling me I can get those same chicken nuggets for like $1.25 with the chocolate milk? Get out of town. You might have to shave the beard though, Chris. I don't know if they're going to let you in. The market has spoken. Nobody is starving, but everyone is malnourished. Next story. All right. Now, I actually want malnourished. Next story. All right.

Now, I actually want to read the story a little bit. McDonald's and Taco Bell have banned it, but now the United States Department of Agriculture is buying 7 million pounds of beef containing ammonia hydroxide treated ground. Beef, not chicken. Yeah, ground connective tissue and meat scraps and serving it up to America's school kids. Yummy. If you thought cafeteria food was gross before. I didn't.

The term pink slime was coined by microbiologist Gerald Zernstein, formerly of the USDA. That's a huge term. Pink slime. What's it look like? He first saw it being mixed into a burger meat when he was touring a Beef Products, Inc. facility in 2002. Salmonella, whatever.

That's the official name is pink slime. Here's an interesting side thought to that, which is that we're probably made to eat a reasonable amount of 2002 Salmonella, whatever. Yeah. So that's the official name is pink slime. Here's an interesting side thought to that, which is that we're probably made to eat a reasonable amount of connective tissue. So in that way, it might actually be more balanced nutrition than just eating the meat. I personally think people should be eating more organs. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know I try to suck the marrow out of the bones every chance I get. Most people don't do that.

They puree the whole chicken intestines and all. Does that count? Sure, man. Just drop it in the blender, I guess. That's right. I'm a little worried about the product they use to make it all stick together. That's what I'm more concerned with. I think it's cornstarch.

I don't mind eating chicken beak, but I don't want, yeah. I don't know if i could find the story right now but there's a i read a story a while back about like the actual product they use to make uh meat stick together like if you go to kroger and you buy a steak it was probably glued to it's like meat glue it's like a wood laminate but it's a big deal in australia but supposedly it's used worldwide so chris i know you had a know you had a little topic you wanted to bring up. Did I? Yeah.

It was about people getting too strong. Oh. It's an epidemic in America today. You know, I've heard recently that one gentleman's problem and his blessing was that he gets strong too quick. You've experienced this, right? Big problem. I hated the last time I got strong too quick. You've experienced this, right? Big problem. I hated the last time I got strong too quick.

It was terrible. I will comment on this. I won't mention his name. He was an acquaintance for a while. We trained together. He got too strong too quick. But he was a former collegiate athlete who started power lifting uh he was like a defensive end or something so naturally gifted an explosive so he he did what a lot of powders do

because they want to get to the level quickly of being able to lift very large amounts of weight and they want to settle for anything less than national level competitions and they don't want to sell for anything less than getting there within a year or so. So he went on a very robust regimen of chemical agents to help him get strong. Steroids. He was doing steroids, okay? But

this fucking guy went from like squatting maybe 650 or so to squatting 900 in a year. I think he was benching in a competitive setting like 725. And he went from pulling 60 or so

to maybe pulling 800. And then he... Did he pull all the tendons off the bone in one move? He exploded onto the scene. And then just as quickly as he was on, he was off

because he hurt a disc in his neck. Blew out a couple discs in his spine. Blew out a couple discs neck, blew out a couple discs in his spine. Blew out a couple discs. Blew out a couple discs in his spine. And I think also it tore a large chunk of muscle off his spine. Yeah.

And it was on the shelf. I didn't see him again until the Arnold Classic about a year and a half later. And at that point, it was quite clear and apparent to me he was off, whatever he was doing because he turned into a guy who looked like he was five six seven years removed from college football and now a little pudgy and out of shape but still probably plenty strong but he just had left it and then two years later i see him again at a competition now he's back competing and now he looks like bruce banner in a rage he had completely changed at two years back to what he was before

and pursuing the same course. Back on steroids. Yeah. I mean, again, completely changed physiologically. So the moral of the story is to juice, right? That's what I heard. So here's the point. If you take shortcuts to get strength, you may be able to do it,

but you will surely pay the price. But if you're a normal person training hard and reasonably in a gym like ours, and you're not doing that, I don't think you have the problem of getting strong too quickly. In other words, when people say powerlifting is dangerous, there are variables in making that assessment. So for me, I'm 31. Yes, it's true. I know I look 22. I was thinking 21.

I have a young son who soaks up more and more time daily. He's a joy and a pleasure, but five months old, started to get a little rowdy. Wife, I have a demanding corporate job. I do some writing on the side, so I stay pretty busy. But I train three days a week. I do it two max just about all the time. I train hard and heavy. I try to make myself better every time I go in the gym.

So I train to maximum weights every week for as long as I can remember with this occasional break. And I've never torn a muscle palatine. Never had a real injury palatine. My injuries came training under the guidance of a poor strength and conditioning coach in football. I've never injured myself training reasonably with limit heavy weights. So, yeah, it's when you introduce stupid things it becomes dangerous. I think the person Chris might be alluding to is somebody who's not strong and probably has never been very strong.

Yeah. But assumes that they put on muscle. This is not a problem. This is something I see all the time, people being like. This is a delusion. This is like the woman who thinks, I don't want to touch a weight and gain they put on muscle. This is not a problem. This is something I see all the time. People being like. This is a delusion. This is like the woman who thinks, I don't want to touch your weight and gain 20 pounds of muscle. Exactly. I don't know how to communicate that this is impossible.

Yeah. This is not possible. Not only do you have people who are fearful of like, I don't want to touch weights and then I'll get that 20 muscles. Or 20 muscles. 20 pounds of muscle. Anyway. I get new muscles. But you'll have people who work out for two weeks

and like dang it's like man I've been working out for like a year and I can hardly tell a difference and you're telling me

in two weeks you can already see you're freaking that's the thing people think that I'm going to touch weights get huge the people who touch weights

and get huge are doing things you can't do and aren't willing to do I think the real the truth on this one is a lot of people come in and do CrossFit.

It usually comes from women, but recently it's come from a guy. It's like, you know, I don't like to lift weights too much because I'll get too strong, too strong too fast, and that's a problem. I'm like, bullshit, dude. You're out of shape. And you've got some kind of delusion going on in your mind. I wrote a – And the person who says that is always the person who's out of shape. I've never

met anyone who's like amazing shape. He's like, yeah, man. It's just happening too fast. I started a post today about strength development on my blog and one of the lines I wrote was that being strong is like Harley's and pinup girls and authentic tequila

and John Coltrane music. More is always fucking better. It's bottom line. Awesome. You can't argue it. Being strong and stronger is fucking righteously awesome all the time. Yep. And with that, we're going to wrap things up.

All right. I think that was perfect. So, Paul, do you have anything? We'll go with Chris first so you can think about it because I know you've got a lot. All right. CTP, you got anything you want to plug? Yeah, we just kicked off our Kickstarter. Fuck it.

No, I don't have anything to plug. Check us out on Kickstarter. We're trying to get an Olympic weightlifting documentary made. And you can go to, what is it, kickstarter.com and then just search. If you just go to fitter.tv, you'll be able to find the weightlifting documentary. And once you go there, it'll be obvious where you should click to donate money. F-I-T-R.TV. That's right.

Spelled cleverly. Maybe we need a jingle. F-I-T-R.TV. Fitter.TV. TV. we need a jingle f-i-t-r dot tv fitter dot tv tv so uh just so you know even if we exceed our goal which is 36 000 you can still donate more and it will be very useful to us so just if give us your money oh yes give us your money if you're rich please give us some of that money come on man smashing's cool give us some money all right chris what do you got chris moore yeah just go to the chris moore blog.com send me rambo about shit paul i'll be appearing at a crossfit gym

near you and the next one is uh crossfit wolf, or probably Wolf River CrossFit is actually how you say it. March the 25th, where I'll give my That Stuff Will Kill You brief, and please come out and see me. And what is that? It is a template of the Paleolithic model of nutrition and how you can use that. So it's a nutrition talk? It is a nutrition talk. Good, good. Boom. And the second part I'd pitch is that June 9th CrossFit on a national scale

is partnering with St. Jude's for the first Fight Gone Bad for St. Jude's, which promises to be an incredibly powerful partnership for a cause that probably anybody could get excited about. And so for me, it's really exciting to see that coming and happening this close to something that's near and dear to us here in memphis yeah show yeah and i've seen uh paul's nutrition talk a couple times and it changes every time but it's it's excellent so thanks mike are they gonna do anything here at the saint jude uh anything locally because it is with them now or i don't know any details about that but like for like, for example, you probably got the email from HQ recently saying,

hey, let's have a chat and see if we can do something really special in Tennessee or in Memphis because it's close to St. Jude. So, you know, it would be kind of nice to see. Maybe team up the local gyms. I think I deleted that email. No, I'm just kidding. All right, so, Bledsoe, what would you like to plug? Yeah, besides the Kickstarter, plug TechniqueWad.com, of course.

Doug's not here, so I'm going to plug that for him. Not that I don't have any part of that. As always, check out FactionSC.com. Check out TechniqueWad, of course, and check out ThreadedTV. And iTunes. We are now on iTunes for this podcast. All right, guys. So now us and you two have something in common.

Wrap your head around that. See you next time. I'm lost.