Barbell Shrugged - Every Day is Max Effort, Reps in Reserve, RPE, and Time Under Tension w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged— Barbell Shrugged #435

Episode Date: January 22, 2020

In this episode of Barbell Shrugged, Anders, Doug, and Travis discuss:   A culture of pushing each other in training sessions. Training hard in the gym transferring to every aspect of your life. How to train reps in reserve Hypertrophy and muscle growth Training muscle splits The best exercise for everyone in the world - hill sprints. And more…   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Travis Mash on Instagram   TRAINING PROGRAMS   One Ton Strong - 8 Weeks to PR your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, and bench press   20 REP BACK SQUAT PROGRAM - Giant Legs and a Barrell Core   One Ton Challenge    8 Week Snatch Cycle - 8 Weeks to PR you Snatch   Aerobic Monster - 12 week conditioning, long metcons, and pacing strategy   Please Support Our Sponsors   “Save $20 on High Quality Sleep Aid at Momentous livemomentous.com/shrugged us code “SHRUGGED20” at checkout.   US Air Force Special Operations - http://airforce.com/specialops   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   ------------------------------------------------------------------ Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs-ep435 ------------------------------------------------------------------ ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Shrug family, another Wednesday. That means Barbell Shrug. How exciting is that? This week, you get to listen to Coach Travis Mash, myself, Doug Larson, as we talk about our training, how it's going, where we're coming from, a lot of the methodology behind what we're doing in the gym these days, and how we structure our training, which is a conversation that we love because we take our training very seriously and a lot of the goals and motives behind why we do what we do um and how we come to the conclusions on what we're going to do for the next eight weeks 12 weeks um six months in a year um and just what it looks like when we sit down and actually put our brains together of taking all the information we have and structuring it into a plan that we put together um Make sure you get over to the store. We have Shredded Nutrition Up, our 12-module nutrition fat loss course. It's up meal plans,

macro calculators, and tons of resources in there. It's really crazy how awesome this resource is for understanding how to lose fat, gain muscle, and get shredded. Everybody loves that. And if you head over to the store right now, you can save by using the coupon code SHRUGGED at checkout. So use the coupon code SHRUGGED. You can head over to shruggcollective.com. Also this weekend, make sure you are doing the One Ton Challenge Qualifier. Online qualifier, head over to OneTonChallenge.com forward slash qualify. We're choosing people to go into the One Ton

World Championships. Super cool that we even had the opportunity to be at the NorCal Classic. Appreciate Ben and Blair and Jed over there. Can't believe we get to make this thing a reality and have a world championship. So cool. So OneTonChallenge.com

forward slash qualify. Can't wait to see the big numbers come in and find out how high we can push these strength levels. Enjoy the show. Stoked for it. Cold brew? You got space, dude. Love that.

Cold brew so I can chug it faster. Dude, we just got back from... You were all fired up. Oh, thank you, bud. Getting back from Sweden. You just went on a program. Yes. I want to hear about this program. I want to hear what, when you get fired up, what does it look like? You know.

Time for MASH to get back under the bar in a structured way. How do you make this thing happen? Here's what happened. You beat me in a clean. You lit a fire under. I played it off like it didn't bother me, but inside I'm like, that's it. Just so the world knows, we spent way too many days in an airplane, way too many hours in an airplane,

and 286 was the winning clean amongst Fisher, Doug, Travis, and I. I clarked. If I had to wage a bet, if I had to put all the money in the world down on who I thought would win that battle, and would the winning number be well under 300 pounds, there's no way. I was so disgusted. I was so, in a way, disgusted that with all those people around, I couldn't get fired up enough to hit 300 pounds. Because I feel like.

I couldn't Clark 286. I was like, all right, that's an all-time low. I was like, you have let this thing go too far is what I said to myself. Yeah. This is time. There's always such a funny feeling when, like, something that's like 80% or or whatever like and you miss it and you're like what the fuck just happened what just happened how did i miss that i was disgusted

yeah it's embarrassing like you drop something like that's 80 80 percent every percent that's to be honest but like 80 or 90 you're like you're looking around the room people looking at you like fuck i feel like i need to explain myself i just need to let that one just fade into the past. My wife saw it, too, and I'm just like, I was so embarrassed. Yeah, that embarrassed me. The Clark embarrassed me more than the fact you beat me is that I Clarked 130. Then I got home, and I tried lifting sporadically, and I went on a terrible tear of just not going well, Clarking. And then I sat down that weekend and wrote my first program in years.

And now it's back to normal. I love it. It's on its way back to normal. Wait, what's that? What's that program looking like? Like, what are the goals? It's the goal is to, you know, obviously get strong again. But, you know, fitness, too.

It's like about movement, strength. And then, you know, like to have some sort of fitness, you're just going to have, you know, I have a nine month old daughter. So, yeah, I'm 46. To have some sort of fitness, you're just going to have a nine-month-old daughter. Yeah. And I'm 46, so I'm like, I want to try to live to be at least 70 or so so I can be around for her. Do you have goals in your head of things that, like, way down the line you'd like to be able to do? Like, is cleaning 140 at, like, 80 years old, like, a goal of yours? I never thought about that. But, you know, I definitely, you know, that's a good goal to have.

Like I don't want to ever be normal. I want to be like Louie. I don't want to ever feel like I have to compete with Masters. And I'm not hating on anyone who does Masters stuff. That's fine. It's just like I want to be able to lift with like the young kids. So, like now my goal is to get back in shape to where I could go to the senior nationals with Morgan and Ryan if I want to. like the young kids. So now my goal is to get back in shape to where I could go to the senior

nationals with Morgan and Ryan if I want to. So that's more important to me than like. I want to squad 315 when I'm 80. That would be a good goal too. I feel like if I just do it every week of my life, I won't have to worry about it. One day I'll just be 80 and it will just happen to be 315 on the bar. But I also have a goal that I want to know.

What is the last year? I actually saw Josh Everett. He's the CrossFit one, right? Josh Everett. He's the CrossFit guy. He is a CrossFit. I get him and Greg Everett mixed up. Yes, Greg Everett is the weightlifting.

Versus Greg Everett? Greg is weightlifting. Josh is more CrossFit. I feel like I mess those up all the time i don't want to put josh all the way in the crossfit box yeah now i know yeah yeah um he made a post the other day on facebook that this is the first year in his life he hasn't cleaned 300 so he's got like six weeks to clean 300 and i feel like that's another one i just want to know what what year in my life will be the last year that i can't snatch 100 and and more than 100 actually 225 and clean 300 yeah i you know i would like to think i could do that well we'll see i mean i thought it was

going to be like the year after i quit crossfit yeah and i thought it would just like all just go away like it's not lifting inside 90 percent if you stop crossing it got so much easier actually and then it was really just like a mental check-in once i stood over the bar of like okay it's time let's do this and then um 225 is i'd love to i don't ever not want to be able to do it but I feel like I'll be able to get besides two and a quarter going into your 40s

that's a good deal you're smashing it you know I love the way that you have you have really good movement and so that that is a big goal of mine too now is to

get my movement back you know I don't expect to like lift like I did when I was at the limit training center but you know I'd like to be able to

you know it was only like I was 42 when I still snatched you know i'd like to be able to you know it was only like it was i was 42 when i still snatched you know 135 kilos so i can snatch 297 when i was you know 42 so i would like to see if i can get back to that yeah dude you're pulling cleans yesterday you look good yeah just timing is off is that's that's what's really messing me up is like it's not like i'm you know like the clogging has nothing to do with being afraid it just feels like you know i'll pull it and when it gets to a certain weight like i don't know where i am in space yeah and so like i get like lost but now it's coming back yesterday

i didn't do any of that mess and yeah i feel like my strength really depends upon like my mental emotional state at the time where like am i just really excited to lift weights yes because there's like periods nowadays you've been doing this shit for 20 something years where it's like i'm just putting the grind in i'm here because this is the thing that makes me move forward in life yeah sometimes i go on like these three month stretches maybe a little bit longer i'm kind of in them right now like i just i'm just eating weights i feel really good yesterday when we started cleaning i was already like 90 minutes deep into a training session. That was not fair.

You've been lifting a long time. I'm like really fired up when I go into the gym because I know that I'm capable of being strong right now. And it's the best because I just – there's nothing I feel like I can't do. That's the worst part is when you let yourself go and like – I try to – honestly, here's what I do. Like if I say I take a month or two and I don't lift, I'm embarrassed because I know I'm going to be super weak, so I don't want my athletes to see me.

So I go to, like, the secret gym they don't know about. I start training there. I don't take any videos. I get back to a certain level, and then I'll come back in. This last time, though, I just did it here. I just put my pride aside. Are you good at writing programs for yourself? i think the older i get the better well i mean i've always done it so i would say obviously i was a world champion pretty good so you wrote all your programming i wrote i did my own oh gotcha i took uh advice from louis simmons

but i still did my own and um but looking back i think i would have been better off with a coach then because it was a little too aggressive i think i would have been better off with a coach then because it was a little too aggressive i think i could have been at the top longer had i not been so crazy like it was basically bulgarian powerlifting is all i did i'm awful at following programs because i'm not playing enough you know i'll do like when i did powerlifting i would write the program and uh i would follow it but then and then some so like you know i do dynamic squats i would do the you know the nine or ten sets of two and then keep going yeah you know then i'd max out with a blue band then i take the blue band off

then i max out with straight weight like it was every day it was max effort that's what i was trying to get uh the 16 year old that I was training with yesterday when we were doing the five-second eccentrics snatches. And we're doing eight of them. And it's at 80%, something like that. We should be able to go forever and never miss. And I kept trying to talk. Do you want to just go until you miss? Do you want to just go until you miss?

Do you want to go until you miss? He stuck to the program. He stuck to the program. I was like, we wouldn't be training partners. Because by the time I'm done chirping in your ear, you'd be so fucked up that we would be snatching for an hour and a half until one of our shoulders fell off. He just stayed right to the program.

He's like, nope, coach told me to do this, so I'm going to do this. And I'm going to go represent Team USA, and you're going to be old. He's a 15-year-old. That's Tim. Tim Olips, he's a 15-year-old. That's Tim. Tim Olyps. He's a 15-year-old stud. Yeah. He's on that level of Morgan.

He's tall and lanky. You never guess it. And then he clean jerks 150 kilos. You're like, how in the world? That's something that I really liked about the West Side movie is that on any given day, those guys are ready to go. And it's like, just put 20 bucks in the chalk bucket and let's see who the strongest person in the world is today 100 was like that like i was not gonna allow

i'll tell you a story i was not gonna allow anyone to beat me anything in my gym and like um one day i did zurcher squats and then i moved on i did it was like it was a lot it was like 5 15 and i moved on to something else and then then Chris, my business partner now, and beat me. He did like 520. So then I came back and went 600. I was like, do you want to keep going? And that was it. Yeah, like, yeah, I just, yeah.

That's a big part of training that no one talks about is like having that culture where you push each other. Yeah. I would have snatched with that kid for like two hours yesterday if he if he had said yes yeah like well we're gonna find out how long we take this thing from two inches off the floor there needs to be a time and a place i think matt you know right before he's going to argentina probably isn't the time friday when he's going max effort yeah you know if i would have held it to just max effort and kept dynamic dynamic or like you know repetition method whatever you call it if i would have held it to just max effort and kept dynamic dynamic or like you know repetition method whatever you call it if i would have done volume one day and i would

have done heavy one day that would have been fun that's how the dynamic day started like they did max effort too often and lou was like fuck like how can we how can we still squat heavy full full effort into the bar yeah without beating ourselves up oh we'll do dynamic effort because you kept breaking people right and i would have been much better off to to have done what yeah so how do you structure how do you structure your program going into like getting back in shape now now it'd be like more of the repetition method like well i mean it's such a funny way of just saying volume right now and I still have max effort days you know I use

the conjugate method meaning like you know I'll do off blocks off hangs yesterday I went off program because you were there and like

I was wanting my rematch but we'll do the rematch Friday for sure yeah okay so like when I'm my ass working yesterday

and tomorrow every day pick a bent over row and get after it but like not knowing where i'm at like as far as my max so i don't use a lot of percentages more rep max and so yeah how often are you training off of just pure feel almost every day because you know that five the best thing about doing like a rep max versus percentage it like takes into account your day so yeah if uh like lately i've

been writing this new book and it's killing me and i've learned a lesson from that this is it's a learning process like i'm not going to write i'm not going to like give myself three weeks to write a you know 400 page book like this one is yeah it's killed me it's killed a lot why are you writing a 400 page book it just ended up being it just evolved it's the same one you were writing in sweden a month and a half ago is the is when I started there. Now I'm finally, I'll be finished this weekend, but it's killed me. And so now through this process I've decided I'll write two books per year, one every six months.

I will decide what they're going to be now, so I can start the research. What's the new book again? It's The MASH Evolution. It's just about over the last two years, I wrote the book MASH System. The program has so evolved because of so many different things.

It's going to talk about the new elements we use and the changes of the program. I've written powerlifting, weightlifting, super total, strength and conditioning. I can't say CrossFit because they'll get mad, but like functional fitness and a general fitness, like a bodybuilding type workout. So there's one of each, and then I explain it. I go through each of those and explain it.

They're each 20-week workouts, and here's why I do this. What are some of the newer things you've been working on that are part of the MASH evolution? All right, so now we use the reps in reserve. We do a lot of AMRAP sets. We use RPE now. It's a great way to express intent. It's hard for them to read my mind.

When you write a program for someone, and someone in Sweden is using my program, they don't know what I'm really thinking. But the closer I can get with RPE and RIR, and someone in Sweden is using my program, they don't know what I'm really thinking. But the closer I can get with RPE and RIR, it lets them know what I'm really wanting to happen. So that would be one. I feel like a lot of that stuff is really difficult in an accumulation phase where it's so easy to max out.

It's like, no, dude, I just you to like be under load for a long period of time and just like we don't need to kill ourselves but we're going high volume like just i want you to accumulate a lot of reps and put your muscles under a ton of tension and not go crazy wake up tomorrow and feel good right do you ever do you know build to a max and then just do five sets 80 amrap every set like that type of thing we don't do amrap a max and then just do five sets of 80% AMRAP every set? That type of thing? We don't do AMRAP every set, but we do definitely what you said. We'll build to a rep max and then down sets.

I think, honestly, if someone out there wanted the most simple program in the world, it would be to do that. Start out by doing some five RMs with two down sets and the maybe the third one being an amrap and then the next week you'll do that for two or three weeks then go to threes then go to one start all over that's the most basic i just gave you the most basic workout that will definitely work yeah so it's like built to a five rm and then take off ten percent and then do two sets of five and then on the last set do five as many as do. Yeah, maybe drop it five more percent. That Wendler guy knew what he was doing. Yeah. Yeah, definitely, like, you know, it was a good scheme.

So I think a little bit more variable would help to make that. I think that program works for anybody brand new for, you know, nine weeks or 12 weeks. But then you need more variance for it to continue. Yeah. Eventually that body figures that out. nine weeks or 12 weeks, but then you need more variance for it to continue. Eventually that body figures that out. You're going to get the law of accommodation. You just get used to it. You need something

to change it up. To keep from adapting. As soon as you adapt, that's the wrap. When are we putting out the Meathead Metabolics e-book? I'm ready. Probably in six months. I know you probably weren't the first person to say that, but putting an actual program to Meathead Metabolics,

what are you thinking when you start putting those conditioning pieces together? I don't want it to be boring. Honestly, it just crushes my reputation too. You come in, you see me doing 30 minutes on a rower, you're like, what has happened here? It crushes my reputation too if you come in you see me doing 30 minutes on a rower you're like what has happened here yeah it crushes my reputation yeah so i have to be doing some lifting or something heavy you know so like you know being able to um like for example when it all started i wanted to do like and i might eventually evolve to this like do one major movement like a clean squat whatever it is

and then take the other movement. So if my goal is one-ton challenge, super total, what I could do is one movement is my focus of the strength day. And then I could do the other movements in my conditioning, like two or three of them, along with some carries, along with maybe a few seconds of a sprint on rows. And now you have conditioning. That's cool so you see you do a

front squat and then you do uh a deadlift a carry in you know in a row for 60 seconds all out yeah and then it's fun and cool it's like you're lifting heavy weights and you know you're still getting conditioning your heart rate's gonna you know you're gonna get up to the fat burning you know rate that needs to be with your heart so So, like, it's still the same thing. It's just not as boring and sissified, you know. Yeah, and sissified. If I'm lifting weights, I feel, or carrying something, I feel manly, you know, fun. You know, riding a spin bike, I don't, you know. Not to hate on anyone who spins, but I'm just being, for myself, this is for me, you know.

Right. I mean, that could be potentially a component where like I like the idea of having a model where it's like something strength, something volume oriented, and then something more conditioning oriented. So you're like five reps on front squat, and then you're doing like sets of 12 on bent rows, and then you're doing like a 30-second airdyne sprint. Perfect. Or like a heavy farmer's carry for 30 seconds down and back. Carries are my favorite. They're definitely going to be in all my metabolics two to three times a week just because they're so good you know everyone talks about core which is they so abuse that word but like if you want your core to be strong carry something heavy

this is impossible that every muscle in your body is not working yeah if you're carrying you know 400 pounds try to it has to engage yeah to support the skeletal system. We used to like, when I was in high school, our strength coach liked us to carry light kegs, but carry them horizontally. So you're pulling them into you like you're doing a row with your elbows out like fully at 90 degrees to your body. It's great posture. Yeah, like a super good posture drill for high school kids especially that have like to your body. It's great posture. Yeah, like a super good posture drill. For high school kids especially, they have really poor posture. You're trying to work on posture, strength, endurance type of thing. I might do that.

Carrying a keg was the highlight of my strength training career in college. I was like, when you were the only one that could fully, you take it out of the car and sit down and be like, can we get help? You're like, step aside, guys. I got this. I got this. I got this. I'm going to carry it up the stairs if you want me to. That reminds me.

Have you guys ever been to South Beach in Miami? Yeah. There's a monster tire that's in the sand that nobody can – everyone tries to flip and they can't flip it. Yeah. I was there with my wife once and I watched it happening. It was tempting, tempting. I'm like, man, if I go over there and I can't flip it, I'm going to be so embarrassed.

And finally, I went over there. You had to do it. And I flipped it. I waited. I flipped it again. So now I got a crowd around me. So then I'm like, Drew, get a video. Get a video.

I didn't want a video of me missing. So then she starts a video. And I go. And I almost popped my bicep. I'm like, there will never be a video of it. So I go and I feel it start to go. And I let go immediately. And I'm like, dang it. be a video of it, you know. So I go and I feel it, like, you know, start to go and I let go immediately. And I'm like, dang it. Done.

Not doing it. What have you been doing in the gym, dude? For me, dude, my number one goal is just to be able to go to jiu-jitsu as often as possible. I was going one time a week and then I bumped it twice a week. And now I've been trying to do three times a week and go one time on the weekend. So at least half of my training right now is jiu-jitsu which is totally fantastic um it's I feel like jiu-jitsu is such a deep rabbit hole of learning I've been doing jiu-jitsu since 2004 and there's still like whole categories of jiu-jitsu that I don't have any real handle on yeah so there's there's still

so much to learn there for me um that i it's really like an enjoyable thing not just from a i'm uh from a fitness standpoint but just like i'm very mentally engaged and always trying to learn new things with jiu-jitsu but then of course you you definitely want to be strong and conditioned if you're wrestling with full-grown men and you don't want to get fucking choked out all the time uh so half my training really is just these days and i lift another you know two or three days a week. But most of it's just staying strong and healthy so I can keep going to jiu-jitsu

and don't have to take days off because I'm banged up or hurt. But that mostly means lifting weights, of course. And then I trail run maybe one or two days a week, mostly just to get outside. That way I'm not just only inside all day long. It's nice to be able to go for a trail run once a week at Shelby Farms in Memphis and run through the woods just purely for fun. It's a good mental break as well.

And then there's a conditioning aspect to it. But for the most part, it's kind of a depending on how long it's been since i train you know if it's been like more than two or three or four days um from lifting weights specifically like if i did jiu-jitsu on on friday and saturday and monday uh then i'll do like a total body thing on tuesday but if i'm if i'm lifting weights consistently then it's usually kind of more like an upper lower split yeah um very very conjugate looking um although i might throw like power cleans at the beginning of it like power clean speed squats for dynamic effort and then it's all assistance work after that and then on more of a heavy day um might be some type of like uh sprints or jumps and then some type of heavy you know

build to a max and then do downsets and then then all assistance work after that. Yeah. That's perfect. I really want to get into fighting. I would like to go to – there's a good gym here for fighting called Combat Fitness. Yeah. I'd like to go there just to – I'm scared of it. Not that I want to fight. Not the fighting part.

Yeah. I'm scared of the rabbit hole that you can go down. I feel like I would. I've been scared of the rabbit hole for, like, multiple years. Well, dude, now that I don't fight, like, I don't fight MMA, so I don't do as much boxing and kickboxing anymore, and I just do i just do jujitsu and i'm just trying to stay healthy because i just enjoy training i'm not competing right now um i roll jujitsu pretty relaxed most of the time and so i'm not moving really fast at jujitsu and then um if i'm if i'm in a crossfit gym and there's

nowhere to run sprints or do agility or like a lifetime fitness or something like that. Like I'm not playing football anymore like I did years ago or I'm not doing anything fast. Yeah. And so I've really made an effort lately to do more like short sprints and jumps and things like that. So now I kind of set a rule for myself where whenever I do something heavy, I always follow it up with jumps. So if I do heavy squats or if I do cleans, I always do complex sets where if I do something heavy, I always follow it up with jumps. So if I do heavy squats or if I do cleans,

I always do complex sets where if I do a double on heavy, I do a double for max speed. So double on max height box jumps or triple jumps. You might need that. Standing broad jumps. That's awesome. I'm trying to do more speed work. I can tell if I just Metcon and do jiu-jitsu

and just do heavy kind of slow grinding lifts, like my 100% full speed is starting to decline. Totally. And that stuff declines faster than strength as you get older. So I want to keep my speed and my power as high as I can for as long as I can. That way I don't start looking like an old man. That is one area of fitness that everybody loses because sprinting is so hard. Yeah. Like 400 meters in the middle of a CrossFit workout is really like a 65% effort.

You're not really sprinting 100. You're jogging that. Yeah. Most of the guys are. I always can tell the difference in how hard I'm running if I wake up the next morning and like all of my intra-abdominal muscles are just shredded like if you're bracing your core as tight as your as you possibly can because you're sprinting as hard as you can and trying to breathe at the same time and you're breathing like in out

and out really fast you will wake up the next day and you will just like you'll sneeze and feel like your life ended oh yeah all that dynamic hip flexion too is going to like it's going your core is going to be a part of that too yeah i really find that i don't sprint that much anymore and it bought like i love going on the long trail run it's so nice it's so relaxing you're getting like the long cardio piece yeah but i don't really do that's why i love still having olympic lifting in my in my system but if i just take off on a sprint it feels awkward for a little while because i just don't do it as much as i'd like to yeah well now that now that i'm sitting here thinking about my

training so i used to have a rule where i'd run hill sprints yeah once a week but then a killer hill next to my house oh your hill is great yeah uh but yeah i think i think it's a really good practice for anyone to run i mean hill sprints are very conservative like you're probably not going to hurt yourself on hill sprints you're not you're not going to tell your hands your hamstring you're not going to you're probably not going to sprain your ankle if you're running in a straight line like it's it's pretty conservative you're not going to get you're not probably going to get hurt yeah like you're going uphill and so you're actually going you know like a little bit slower than you would if you're on flat ground or of course running downhill but i ended up with a hamstring issue um not from running hill sprints

but from running sprints on just like on a flat soccer field and uh not like an injury injury but like i could feel it was kind of in there a little bit and i didn't want to make it worse and so i started just doing trail running but now my hamstring's actually better and so as i'm saying this i'm like fuck i need to get back to running more hill sprints because um i think they're awesome for power development and and they're really fun they're it's great for conditioning like hillspring athletic hillsprings check a lot of boxes yeah i feel like i when you hear like those athlete stories like everyone's got a hill or they've got like some some thing that they just have to go conquer but every time they conquer it and they ring the bell at the top.

Jerry Rice has this hill that he used to bring people out to and just shred them. There's countless athletes that have their hill that's straight up, and every day I've got to go run it five times. It's really funny. Smart. When I owned the gym and we were all competing, we would put tally marks at the end of regionals. Like, how many times can we go would put tally marks at the end of regionals.

Like, how many times can we go run that nasty hill down at the beach? It was, like, straight up. It was brutal. And Pitts and I would actually go out and run it all the time. And we'd get to, you'd have, like, the five. Like, you'd have to hit it five times. If you don't hit it five times, you didn't do anything. And then we'd get to the top.

And we were, like, very competitive with CrossFit Invictus down the street because they had their big competition team and we were always finishing like they were always one we were always like three in california and we get to the top and we'd be done with five we look at each other be like we done be like ah fuck it we got to beat invictus this year like we're gonna go run two more and there's something that has to keep you going doing one or two more, one or two more. And it's just, dude, it is so brutal running hills. I would definitely recommend any adult out there who's listening to this, like, hill sprints would be much safer than going out and doing, like, a 40-yard dash. If you haven't been running, definitely start for, I would say,

four to six weeks of hill sprints before you wanted to turn it into a full sprint. Because that pawing motion is a great way to tear a hamstring. Yeah. Like, just if, yeah. On that note, like, if you don't have a hill or stairs or whatever, but you do want to run sprints, like, once you get up to full speed, I feel like that's when you're kind of in the danger zone. So, if you're, once you're beyond, like, for someone who's not a real sprinter, like, once you're beyond, like, 20 yards, then you're at mostly full speed. So don't go try and run full speed 100s or 40s or whatever it is because you're probably going to fucking tear your hamstring. Like, go run 10s.

Or if that kind of sounds silly to you, then do agility drills because you're not going to get to full speed running agility drills. So if you're running, like, an eye test, you know, you run out 5 yards, 10 yards back, and then back to the middle or something like that, doing cone drills or ladder drills. You're moving full speed, but you're probably not going to tear your hamstring out. You're just not in that maximal speed where your torso is vertical and you're pawing and pulling back on the hamstring. That's where it goes wrong right there. And don't go zero to 100.

Have like a rolling start helps a lot. You get like a little jog in. You're like, I'm going to start. This is like my favorite way to run sprints actually is like in my neighborhood. I just pick mailboxes. I do that too. When I run. Yeah.

You take the mailbox. You're like, ah, that one's about 20 yards in front of me. You get a little jog going. You hit the mailbox. Gone. And then where am I going to stop? Just find a mailbox up the street. And then you're done.

And you slow down. But it's basically you can go run two miles or whatever it is, get 10 sprints in, and you're running like between a 400 and 800, maybe a 200 if you're really getting after it. But that's like the impossible way to write in a program, but like the way that I get the majority of my sprinting in is I just take off in the neighborhood, pick mailboxes, pick streetlights, pick stop signs, and I'm the guy that's running through your neighborhood at 100%, going balls to the walls. The biggest benefit of all this is like feeling athletic.

Yeah. You know, I mean, there's nothing better than that feeling like when I was playing college football and you just felt like able you know to do whatever you want i could i could play back and jump as high as i could jump you know i could you know i could run if i someone to run i could do anything you know there's something so empowering about that that i think we lose you know like you know as you get older that you you pick a sport like i pick powerlifting so you lose a lot of that like your vertical leap is not the same your sprinting is not the same. Your sprinting is not the same.

You know, you just don't do it. But like, you know, I recommend, if you want to, you know, everybody talks about,

I want to look and feel like I did when I was, you know, in high school or college. Be the two. And like, well then you got to do the same things that you did

when you were in high school and college. So you look at what you're doing fitness wise, are you doing the same things? If you're not, and you want to look like that, it makes no sense. So like, do those things. But what you said earlier, be wise about it doing the same things? If you're not and you want to look like that, it makes no sense.

So like do those things, but what you said earlier, be wise about it. Like don't just go out there and say, okay, time my 40 yard dash. Yeah. You're going to get hurt.

Yeah. Ease back into it. But then I would recommend getting back to doing what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the volume is a little different. Maybe the weights are a little different, but,

but fundamentally categorically it should look similar. Yeah. Jumping, running, you know, I know Martin Rooney is a little different, but fundamentally, categorically, it should look similar. Yeah, jumping, running. I know Martin Rooney is a big proponent of continuing to sprint. He thinks that everyone should sprint because it's such a natural movement. That's the way we were built. We were built to sprint, to go catch animals or whatever, to hunt and gather.

And so he's really – that's his big thing with training for warriors is sprinting, you know, jumping, lifting. I think all the things that are, like, so good for you to do become very difficult because it has you standing out in the crowd. So most people don't go sprint because you're moving really fast. Yeah. And it feels weird because everybody else is going on a long, slow jog. Right. So if you, like, blow by somebody and you're running a wind sprint in your neighborhood, like, you're in a way, you're standing out from the crowd of the 10 people that are going at 40% and sludging through the neighborhood. Like, that stuff took me.

It didn't take me a long time, but it became very apparent as i got older we're like when you're hanging out with a bunch of kids and athletes and you're in a gym where people are training really hard everybody's pushing the limits on not moving slowly i'm trying to move as fast as possible like let's go race in in the alley like i'll race you to the mailbox let's go yeah and that stuff happens daily so it's part of your general culture it's part of your it's just your environment is built around speed competition athleticism like you're doing this stuff every day not because you're training but because i want to kick your ass and i want to get better and i want to be faster and then you enter into adulthood or whatever that is and you

like move into my mayberry normal neighborhood and like now i'm the guy running a hundred percent through my neighborhood and there's cars passing and they're like what the fuck is that kid doing like why is he moving like that like i think about i'm building a home gym and I like, I want to push a sled in my court so badly. We're going to take a quick break to thank our sponsors over at Momentous. If you follow me on social media, you might have noticed that I've been testing the Momentous sleep product. This thing is awesome. And I can't wait to tell you what I'm noticing. First of all, comes in a pill form and you just take one pill about 30 minutes before you want to go to sleep. The formula only has three ingredients, including melatonin and a special kind of magnesium that can actually reach your brain.

This is really like the key to the magic pill. It's when the ingredients reach your brain. That's when you get all the calming effect as you're trying to fall asleep. But I'm liking this because it helps me fall asleep, stay asleep. I was nervous that it was going to make me wake up feeling groggy. But that's not the case at all. I'm waking up feeling fresh and recovered. The best part, in my opinion, is that I can actually see what it's doing

to my sleep quality using my Whoop. So get over to Momentous, offering $20 off for Shrugged listeners using the coupon code Shrugged20 at livemomentous.com, L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com, forward slash Shrugged, saving you $20. And our friends over at iOptimizers, you can save on P3OM. Did you know that 99% of the over-the-counter products out there don't colonize in your gut as claimed? Well, it's true. In fact, studies have proven that most probiotics just pass through your system and do nothing.

Still, we need good bacteria to fight the bad guys. That's where the P3OM comes in. You can get the Navy Seal of gut bacteria. It is the strain that doubles every 20 minutes. Getting rid of the bad guys, keeping the good guys. And once it's done its job, it's in and out. Out of your body within three to four days. It uses just one proven probiotic strain that's so effective it's been patented.

So head over to P3OM.com forward slash shrugged free. That's www.p3om.com forward slash shrugged free. That's p3om.com forward slash shrugged free. All one word and you will automatically get access to your unique coupon code to claim your free bottle. Limit one per household. Off alice pause ice we're just gonna go back to talk about meathead stuff let's go but there's like a weird thing that goes on in my head like man if i load a sled up and i'm fucking dying in front of my neighbors they're gonna think i'm nuts like but it not only will they think i'm crazy but if they walk out and they're like hey what are you up to it'd be really hard for me to explain to them how much i enjoy feeling

that way yeah and now you're like that dude that's trying to explain to the guy that goes and runs his daily 5k for the past 20 years at like a 28 minute pace yeah and you're just like well when you run like that i like to feel like this this is the way that i get off yeah when it comes to training now i'm totally with you both like billy does dug a little bit on the whole doing the jiu-jitsu because i want to yeah do some fighting but so dude jiu-jitsu is good for everybody yeah i'm with you i totally agree i want to, I think what will happen to soon, I'm going to have rock do jujitsu just cause I want to,

I want all my kids to like, I'm getting Adelaide to do it for sure. So I'll probably do it with them. You know, like I'll share in that experience with them. I really like the physicality that you have with your sons too. Like, like being,

I want, and Rogan's been talking about a lot lately of how he just has his daughters like he's they're allowed to just t off and kick the shit out of him like i think that that's really important i mean that's it's like a piece kind of like we're talking about just in a different element of like even when you're sparring you're not really trying to hurt that person so like you never practice. You never practice. I'm like, you're not. You're sure. I got you.

How about in a life or death scenario, there's a different attitude towards your practice. Yeah. You're trying to win. And that involves putting some pressure on somebody. But you're not trying to actually injure them for real. Like having a daughter, it'd be very beneficial for her to know what it's like to say,

we're going to turn this thing on and I have to protect myself. Yes. I definitely want my daughter to do some form of martial arts. Yeah. I think jiu-jitsu is probably the best one because you don't have to be super strong.

You know, it was Gracie who dominated forever and he's a little skinny guy. Yeah. You just slip up and now you're in an arm bar. You're like, yeah wait how did this little guy just break my arm yeah you definitely can get by if the other person doesn't know what they're doing and you're not as strong as that other person but you know what you're doing then you definitely get by but like even in the case of hoist gracie like once everyone else learned jujitsu and then then it was like okay there's there's real olympic caliber wrestlers and athletes that know jiu-jitsu, and then there's some guy who's not actually in very good physical strength shape,

then it's much harder to compete at that point. So they definitely both matter. You know, when the wrestlers entered the MMA, it changed everything. Like Mark Kerr, you guys remember him? Sure. The animal. And so that changed the whole face of MMA. No longer could a guy, like, yeah, you've got to be jacked, strong, powerful, fast, and know all those

things. I remember Mark Kerr said, when they outlawed headbutting, I didn't know what to do. He was like, I'm out of moves. You take them down, you fucking headbutt them until they give up. Man, here's a great story. I remember watching Mark Kerr. That dude was totally addicted to painkillers. Yeah. what i ruined his career so like uh by the way yeah it's easier it's easier when you don't feel pain yes so i saw him fight this dude uh some dude it was a uh it

was a special forces guy and they do the pre-fight interviews and the guy and the one dude was like yeah i've invented the most special martial art ever. It can't be beat. It's unbeatable. I'm unbeatable. You know, super cocky. I'm not saying that he happened to be a special forces guy. Not that everyone's like

that. This guy was. Mark Kerr's just you know, I just pray that we'll both be alright. He's super humble. And they go out there and they're like, oh, let's get it on. Five seconds. Mark Kerr steps out, kicks him right in the face, and the dude drops. No. After all that, I mean, in his pre-fight interview,

he went on and on about how special of a deadly martial art he had invented. And in five seconds, he just straight front kick. Nothing sexy. Walks out, right in the face, done. Dropped him. I mean, the dude, the whole stiffen up like a board where he was knocked out.

Lights out. I laughed so hard because I was praying. I was praying that would happen because the dude talked so much shit. Yeah, that's the crazy part about striking is like you, you can just, the whole concept of a lucky punch. Like you just throw some shit in the air and it happens to hit someone in the chin and they happen to go to sleep.

That can't happen. In jiu-jitsu, there's no such thing as a lucky submission. That does not happen. You've worked that magic. If you are wrestling or grappling with someone who is a black belt in jiu-jitsu and you don't know jiu-jitsu, there's no chance you're accidentally winning.

You are so fucked. You're beat that day. You're just hoping to learn something, but you're getting beat. Yeah, it's like some kid accidentally snatching more than Morgan. You just aren't going to do it. He just accidentally snatched more than Morgan. You're not going to slip, trip, and snatch. Whatever he snatches.

That's funny. What, he's like 350-ish? Morgan? What's he at? No, he's only at 308. He's done a 418 cleaning jerk. His cleaning jerk is right below the world record. But it's snatching now.

We're hoping at the American Open 145, which is like 319. Yeah, what's the deal with that, you think? Because his clean is very high, and it snatches a low percentage of his clean. Yeah, because what we're assuming is that they were pretty even for the longest time they were both going up together and then he had two big growth spurts and each time he had that growth spurt he put his his snatch went way backwards and so um then we had to now he stopped growing and now no he just messed up his leverages on puberty yeah and so now it's like and then we we just did this whole like six months of going

backwards and working back up and so now it's now it's on a good path now it's clean jerk is kind of like you know steady and then snatching is coming up so we're hoping to get to that 145 190 i'm okay with that you know because a lot of people that's just the way it is you know so yeah at that point i hope they both continue to rise together 95 50 200 you know, so. Yeah. At that point, I hope they both continue to rise together. 95, 50, 200, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Dude, you got, when you started to go back on a program that you got me all fired up, I started to go back and, and I didn't write a full program, but structured training sessions out. Yeah.

Got me super, super amped. It got me amped i was tired of getting like crushed things were different man it was great i felt old yeah but it was uh i started like two weeks ago and very concentrated um snatch pulls squat. But it's been really, really cool to actually be back on somewhat of a program. It's been so long. And knowing that I can have the flexibility that goes into it. Yeah.

It's been probably the most fun I've had just actually thinking about programming for myself, where usually I just kind of throw it together. And I feel like I created a lot of fun ways for me to train over the last two years of not being specifically on a program. Right. But having just like a general template for like what three days a week of focus looks like and then adding one day of cross-fittiness or trail running or sprinting,

something like that, adding that in has been really rad. Yeah, I definitely like the way that I've done the conditioning. It makes it fun. Yeah. But it's so important. It's the first thing that I will normally cut out because, you know. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard.

It's like it's not what I'm good at. You ever thought about going full bore in the other direction? Like you've been doing strength for so long, you ever thought about like trying to see. Can a match run a marathon if you can maybe not like specifically doing like triathlon now the business partners yeah you should at least do that every year thought about like seeing like like how lean i can get or like yeah how to go vegan yeah like yeah like focusing on on on body fat levels or on – like we did the 20-rep back squat program, doing like a higher rep back squat thing or seeing what you can do with your VO2 max.

Definitely some of that. But I still enjoy – I do enjoy going heavy. So I don't think I can enjoy that stuff. But there's aspects I want to delve into and learn to enjoy it more and i think the more i learn to enjoy that the more i might you know make a switch but right now so i created i shouldn't say i created i started playing with a lot of ways to incorporate what we like to do right lifting really heavy into what i consider to be like 60 like over the past two years i've probably tinkered with how to structure stuff like that more than i ever have in my life um one of the ways and doug and i did

it a couple times when he was in san diego we were all in san diego but adding like uh you're joking about rowing but building in a long conditioning session that just is basically all the meathead metabolics you were talking about so you would just go three rounds but it every round starts with like a 12 minute row buy-in and then you go and do full full body strength training and you just pick a full body you know pull up something off the floor, some sort of squat, and you structure that in, and you go three rounds of that. So you're getting somewhere in like, I mean, if you grab two kettlebells, and you just did a complex of double kettlebell front squats, you're going

to shred your core. Now you're doing, then you go right into some sort of thruster. Now you've got your vertical push, and then push-ups, super simple until you're waxed, and then push-ups become very hard. And you can just walk through each of the movement patterns. But then as soon as you get through with that, now you're back on the 12-minute row. Heart rate's through the roof. And you're just playing that game of like, okay, heart rate is at X percent of max. And then you go straight into can I move 60 to 70 percent in a fun structured way that'd be fun

so you're just your whole 60 ish minutes is a three round workout that just the buy-in is a 12 minute row so you're 36 minutes of rowing by the end of the day and then you've got 20 minutes of steady state cardio yeah and i do believe i definitely see the benefits i think a lot of powerlifters you know miss the boat and weightlifters by not doing any you know cardio you guys ever talked to like alex vieta um he wrote hybrid he is all about concurrent training and uh he talked about you know i've he used to live in north carolina and i moved to california but we had a lot of talks about the importances of like having a really good oxidative system and how important the better you are,

the better your oxidative system is, you know, the less you'll have to use it. Yeah. So your stores will last longer. Right. And the more efficient you'll be, like, for CrossFitters, you know, it totally makes sense because, you going to use the oxygen way more conservatively and not redline so quickly. There's this thing in MMA where some people think they've got to get in shape for their fights, and those people don't do as well as people that realize that they need to be in shape so they can train for their fight. Right, exactly. If that makes sense.

So I think there's a component of being in really good shape just allows you to train harder for your competitions. Same. So if you had a better oxidative system, you could do weightlifting more efficiently. You could do powerlifting more efficiently, recover much faster. So, yeah, you should be in shape to be able to do more of your sport. In MMA, you need to fight to be able to do more of your sport yeah in mma you need to you need to fight you know you need to do mma and so you do your cardio just to be able to do more of that so yeah so another way that i've structured and i think that you'd

actually really like this because it keeps you lifting weights um and off of the erg um i kind of i call it just like finding an anchor movement so i pick like just a single thing it could be like a relatively light deadlift um if i want to do like a bunch of pulling i'll just pick like a relatively light uh like barbell row dumbbell row just some compound movement that i have heavy-ish weight. Nothing crazy. Nothing that's going to make me ever lose form, kind of like snatching 185.

It's never really that heavy, but also you've got to think about doing it well. Right. And instead of doing the rowing piece, I'll have a weightlifting piece, and I'll just pick a number. Say it's like a 135-pound row for eight reps. And I'll do a full set of like four by eight at that. But then as I move through that,

that just becomes the superset for everything else I do. So if I go from I start out with a horizontal row, and then I move into call it pull-ups. Now I'll do a set of five pull-ups. But instead of just sitting there and waiting for my next set to come up i have to go back and hit 135 for eight and then i'll move on to some sort of squatting movement and say i'm doing front squats at two and a quarter for triples right now every time i re-rack the bar i owe myself eight barbell rows so now you're just

taking relatively lightweight or heavy-ish weight, whatever the kind of rep set or rep scheme you set up, and now you're automatically incorporating a superset into everything you're doing with a very large focus on one specific piece of the movement. So you're going, you can do an entire full body movement, but you're overloading horizontal pulling. Right, right. Or you're overloading, it could be pull-ups for five.

Finding something that there's no way you're ever going to miss. Right. But throughout that training session, you're going to do 60, 70 reps of that specific thing because you've done 12 total sets. But in those 12 total sets, you've done 12 total sets but in those 12 total sets you've done 8 by 12 basically wow of the horizontal row at or like a barbell row a dumbbell row whatever it is you only do like one set of those accessory movements so you know you do your row then a pull-up row then a squat yeah so you just do once yeah that'd be cool so you keep

coming back to it you're getting tons of volume tons of hypertrophy and you're staying very strong yeah but you don't have to just like when you aren't on program or you aren't like specifically building to a a end goal playing with those reps and sets has been so much fun. Just because when you're building towards a structured thing, you have to follow these exact protocols, basically, to get there. But to be able to play with the movements and play with supersets has been a blast. That sounds fun. Dude, I've never actually gotten around to writing this program

and putting it out to the world, but I did a program in 2006 where all I did was dynamic effort everything. I remember you actually talking about that. Dude, it was so fun. I felt so good all the time. I fucking smashed all of my PRs on everything. So I was just doing between three and five reps at a 70, 80% just like speed reps as fast as I possibly could,

all velocity based. Do you use bands or chains? Only on the big core, heavy squats and no deadlifts back then. Did you measure the speed? I didn't have a 10-0 unit or anything like that. That was just in college, in the college weight room. I remember you talking about that and how you smashed all your PRs with it. Dude, yeah.

Makes me curious. All the velocity-based stuff worked really incredibly well for me. So since then, I've done many things very similar to that. I've taken three movements and done dynamic effort with all of them. So if I do speed triples on front squats and then I do three clap push-ups and I do three very fast hanging leg raises, strict toes to bar as powerfully as I can, none of that stuff's to failure, obviously. But doing three moves back to back to back and then resting for 45 seconds or a minute and doing 10 sets like that like i get the volume in i move really really fast and athletically i walk out of the gym and like i feel i feel fresh and light like i'm still ready to train and show up the next day i'm not too sore but i'm a little bit sore and i'm fucking

motivated and pumped to train again because i'm not too beat up but like i really noticed that like speed on the bar and being powerful like increased very very quickly on all my lifts yeah and then then still throwing like a few a few heavy sets not like zero heavy sets but um but heavyset might be just for the first movement of the day you know do a you know front squat heavy and then dynamic effort everything else and man i just smashed on that program it was so good that a couple times and i really liked the part uh where we did a lot of the accessory stuff like when you're moving those lighter weights fast or just doing everything fast you do walk out feeling like you actually are more athletic the number of times i've squatted like 315 in my life, and I'm just like grinding through it.

You're like, am I really doing what I'm supposed to be doing right now? I mean, it depends. I mean, you definitely need that aspect. When you don't feel great, and you're just in the gym pushing through because you feel like you need to. But when you have to move fast and you have to check in and do it, you feel much more athletic. I love doing the dynamic ever.

I remember it feels cool, too. I like doing the benches and squats with bands because it's so fast. I love moving that quickly. I just wish I could have stopped and not kept going. I have no self-control. Me neither. Zero.

What's going to be the most fun? I would watch videos. They put out videos of Chuck. Deep down, if Westside told the truth, not many of their people follow what you guys think is Westside either. I'm sure

your boy told you too. I totally mic'd out. AJ? Sure, he told you. But like Hoff, he doesn't do any of that stuff. Speed day turns into max every day. It's always a competition. Chuck would do, I would see him have like 600 pounds,

two blue bands and chains or something. So I would try 620 with two blues. Every time I see something he would do, I would try to beat it. It would just drive me insane. How crazy would you have been with social media when you were trying to be the strongest man in the world? Absurd. I don't know what would have happened. It fucking killed me in CrossFit when Instagram hit.

I hated people. Yeah. I remember Aaron Gardner. What's up, dude? Hope you're listening. I really like you. You're awesome. But he showed up, and he Hope you're listening. I really like you. You're awesome. But he showed up

and he was like, came out of nowhere. He was like, he was deployed and competed at like the Asia Regional. And nobody was on Instagram. Very few people were doing like the self promotion thing through Facebook. It just isn't like the

most, it isn't the best platform for that. Instagram's a much better self-promotion platform. And then I got on Instagram, and he moved to SoCal. So you get on seeing who's doing what. And I just remember thinking, who are these fuckers? Do I have to really go compete against all these kids right now? And then everything you do, someone will hit like

some radical snatch complex like 245 and you're like well i wonder what i can do that at like i gotta beat them every single day i gotta go out and do this snatch balance times four plus hang snatch plus overhead squat times six and you just like every single day i would get online and then that started to dominate my training and i just had had to be like, okay, back away from the phone. It would have driven me crazy. Oh, it was brutal just because you always – there's always somebody to beat, and then you beat them or you don't beat them. You feel like crap.

And then when you do beat them, you're like, what did I just do? And then there's somebody you don't know about right now that's watching both of you. Yeah. And the next thing you know, they pop up and they are beating you. And you're like, whoa. Yeah. It was not, you know, what little bit of social media we had back then drove me crazy. Like, you know, Chris would tell you, like, almost literally crazy.

If I'd had Instagram, I would have needed mental help. It was brutal when it showed up because it was just like you can't. There's always somebody out there doing the thing that they are the best at. And you're like. Crushing it. They might not even post for another week. You might not see anything. But then you go, they do that thing.

And the next day you're like, well, I got to go fight them. I got to go beat them up. I should have asked to see Chuck's bench press. And then I would have been so worried then. Because he was so far behind me in the bench press. I'd be like, looking back, I should have said, you can have the squat because I'm going to beat you by 200 on the bench. It's not going to matter.

How long has Chuck been training at Westside? Is he still there? He's back now. Yeah, I've seen them posting videos of him lately. I mean, he's been there forever. Ever since I started watching their videos like in the 90s and he was there so like forever he's like he's like part of the walls basically his blood on the you know yeah he got his blood ingrained in the floor of the place but he's always been there and like that you know when

um it was in 2007 um he's when louis simmons invited me to come up there to it when it was in 2007, that's when Louie Simmons invited me to come up there. It was a great deal, too. That was when he was getting beat by the big Iron Gym in Nebraska. They were down the street. So then he went after all the best guys because he wanted to recruit us so he could beat them. And I almost went there. You know, it's part of me wishes I had, but I think I'd be dead.

You know, if I'd gone there, like, I think I'd be one. There's a reason it didn't. I would be one of the guys that would be dead because I would be the one who would not let Chuck beat me. You know, those other dudes bowed to him, and I would not bow to him. You know, I beat him. Like, I don't need to bow to him. You'd probably be in a fight every day, too. You would have.

But fighting is allowed in the gym. Oh, yeah. Louis said that. You know, because there was a time I was going to go visit, and he's like, I don't know if I'd come right now. He's like, Chuck really hates you at this moment. I'm like, I don't care. You know, like, visit, and he's like, I don't know if I'd come right now. He's like, Chuck really hates you at this moment. I'm like, I don't care. You know, like, you know, he's like, yeah, but it'll be bad. You know, he's like, nothing good will come of this visit.

So, yeah, like we would have fought. How did you not make it into the documentary? That's a good question because, you know, he talked a lot about Chuck, but at that moment when they were talking about it, I was beating him. Yeah, if he's second best in the world and you're beating him. Yeah, they were showing a video of him in the back room. I know that documentary. I was competing against him.

I beat him by 100 pounds that day. In the movie, they're showing Chuck. That day, I beat him by 100 pounds. Yeah, they built him to be the big thing, but he was second best. Yeah, by far. 100 pounds is a huge margin. Did they ever interview you for it? Yeah, we talked a little bit.

We're friends now on the West Side. No, no, no. Well, the documentary makers. Yeah, we talked. Yeah, the guy who made the West Side documentary. So he's a pretty nice guy. We've talked since, but it was too late. Once we met each other, he'd already made it.

Wait, who was that guy? Who made that documentary? He's been on my show. That's terrible. I'm blanking out. It's all good. Yeah, he's been on our podcast. Yeah, because you guys promoted the doc.

Yeah, the documentary. So it was a good documentary, but definitely it was a little bit of me. I was like, man, I beat that guy. I'd love to see you at the premiere. And he's got that, he misses the squat and then comes back and hits it on the third one. You're like, second place. Good job. Great job.

Thanks for showing up. I beat him. I beat. We competed against each other at one, two. See, he flat. We tied. The very first time I competed against him, we tied. I tied him.

But he won because he was lighter than me at the time. Yeah. Then the next time we competed, he bombed out and I won. Then the next time we competed, I got hurt and he won. And then the next two, I won. So, basically, you know, he never beat me straight up. But he tied me, I bombed out, got hurt, and then I beat him straight up twice. Nice.

It was a fun battle. He was the legend, and everybody was like, but I was not as impressed as everyone else. Someone's got to say, fuck you. I'm not going to bow down to anyone. Yeah, I'm just not that guy. I'm not bowing to anyone. That's what to do it. Yeah, I'm just not that guy. I'm not bowing to anyone. That's what it takes to be the best in the world. Yeah.

So that's why my athletes, I want the same athletes around me. I don't – I just not – you know, a lot of – I'm sure Matt Frazier didn't show up. He's like, ah, man, Rich is very good. He's like, I want to crush Rich. Yeah, he's like, no, I'm going to – I don't – I'll live near him, but I can't train with him. No.

I'll try and kill him every day. Every day. Right. That's like bringing MMA back into the conversation. Like when George St. Pierre fought Matt Hughes for the very first time for the title. I totally remember that. Yeah, yeah. And at the time, it was the opposite.

Like George St. Pierre idolized Matt Hughes, and now he's fighting him. And they went out to the center of the octagon know touch gloves and then get ready to fight and george saint pierre who's now widely considered to be the best one of the best fighters ever ever ever of any weight class um he walked out and matt hughes you know walks toward him toward the center of the octagon and he's like staring up into the rafters like into the crowd like couldn't even look matt hughes in the eye in the eyes and like end up losing that fight. And then finally got his shit together. It was like he's a fucking human being. He's beatable.

And came back and beat him the second time and then went on, you know, many-year tear as the champion. But if you're trying to be the best in the world and you don't already think that fuck this guy, like everyone thinks he's the best, like you're not going to be the best yourself. You're not. You're idolizing the other person. You have to believe that you're the best. That's the mistake that's the mistake in that moment he didn't believe he was the best

he thought he was really really good but matt hughes is matt hughes i can't beat matt hughes and he lost that's why tia and matt train together yeah but froning does not train with them yeah froning wins in his gym every day yeah no one beats him in cookville well not in the city but like nobody beats froning at the froning the froning farm right any day any workout there's no way right but frazier trains down the street there's no way that they hang out together you can't put those alpha mindsets in the same room without there being a collision every single day on their team now matt frazier's on no he's about to break Froning's record this year, five in a row. Why is he living?

They're both tied for four right now. They both live in Cookville, Tennessee? I'm confused. They both live down the street from each other. Why did he move to Cookville, Tennessee? Because he's a millionaire and there's no fucking taxes. Oh, yeah. He'd go buy a farm that's the size of North Carolina and not have to pay taxes on it, whatever it is.

I don't know that I would move right down the street from my – Well, all the coaches have moved there. Like, Froning has created an entire hub of badass. Cookville, Tennessee. Yeah, like everybody has moved to Cookville. It's like the hub. It's like Columbus, Ohio. Dude, Chris Henshaw moved from Orange County in California to Cookville.

To Cookville. Rory McKernan's moved out there. The number of athletes that have moved there is insane. And they all just hang out. He's creating the West Side Barbell of CrossFit in Cookville. Who would have thought that Columbus, Ohio has the best powerlifting in the world? You go to that city, it's always dreary and it's cloudy. The best powerlifting ever.

But Tia and Matt can train together. Because they don't have to compete. And they can still be the best in the world. Yeah, girl and a boy. And it's still that level of intensity every day. And they can still bring it. And they probably beat each other in the world. Yeah, girl and a boy, yeah. And it's still that level of intensity every day, and they can still bring it, and they probably beat each other in specific things. Tia's my favorite as a girl, because obviously she was an Olympian, weightlifter.

That's impressive. To me, she's one of the most impressive strength athletes ever, because to make the Olympics, normally it's just so different. A person who's going to win the CrossFit Games is not goingics because like you gotta your absolute strength has to be so high and like yeah normally their energy systems are centered on that one thing absolute strength but to be able to flip back to like no i can do all these other energy systems too better than everyone i'm like that blows my mind like matt fraser was a good way to be he was never gonna go to the olympics yeah like you know if he came back he would be an average weightlifter at best, no matter how hard he trained.

But Tia does both. That's impressive. Yeah. Well, do you think it's easier to go from CrossFit to Olympic weightlifting or powerlifting to Olympic weightlifting? Because you're probably one of the only people that have gone powerlifting to Olympic weightlifting. Just because of the mobility and movement. And the movement patterns are way, as much as they're both called squatting, it's way different.

You want to find that CrossFitter who's really good but not great. Because you get the great ones, that means they have an amazing aerobic system, which is probably not. Yeah. Probably means they don't have a great, you know, like. Totally. Absolute strength system. And so, like, you know, that's the guys I've found.

You know, morgan was from crossfit rhymes you know ryan was right on the cusp of making the teenage crossfit games but he was just he was never going to be great because he did not have that great aerobic system and so but he makes for an unbelievable so the people now there's a lot of his competitors coming back you know coming to weightlifting because when a boy crosses over from teenage to you know going to against the men it's going boy crosses over from teenage to, you know, going to against the men, it's going to take a minute. Nobody, no young boys are going to go from 18 to competing against, you know,

Froning to Fraser and make the games probably. So they're going to, so they normally, a lot of them take three, four years, and they, you know, do weightlifting, you know, while they're developing. But, you know, the people coming now going against Ryan can't even even they're not even come close to him and weightlifting yeah but in crossfit he gets beat because he does not have that amazing ability to you know that oh what do y'all call it the uh you know the where you feel like you're dead pain cave the pain yeah does not uh last very long in the pain cave. Whereas, like, you know, I have another boy who does. He actually, this other kid, Nathan Clifton from Missouri,

he got fourth at the Teenage CrossFit Games. And he's that guy. He can just, like, he can be half dead for 30 minutes. You know, like, the minute I'm half dead, I'm done. Like, he can just be like half dead and keep going. I don't understand that. That's my, that's,

CrossFit is, they are breeding athletes that's never, like I didn't even know existed. It'll be very, very cool to see what CrossFit, the highest level of CrossFit looks like in 10 years.

Because now you've got kids like Morgan that are going to be at it for 20 years yeah Olympic weightlifting not but they won't take it in his path but they'll be doing the gymnastics the conditioning all of it just playing in the gym for the last decade and now you've got a decade of becoming a man yeah and and like really developing and the women are going to be freaks for a long time. Because they just stick around. Jen Ryan is just fucking on a tear right now.

She finished third in the world. She's been doing this shit for fucking 15, 20 years now. Just like, God. She's been doing CrossFit specifically for 15 years. I think it's incredible that a girl like Haley Adams rolls right in. She's a teenage. Now she immediately makes CrossFit Games

her very first open year. She did pretty well, too. Yeah, she did really well. She made it all the way to the end of Sunday. Yeah. Did the last workout, top 10.

She's already made it again for this year. That's a girl, though. She's not that big. No. No. She's just, I guess, for CrossFit, is just perfect. She's not too big, not little. She's not that big. No. No. No. She's just, like, I guess, like, for CrossFit, it's just, like, perfect.

She's not too big, not little. She's not super strong. She's not weak. She's, like. Do you think if you had convinced her to not go the CrossFit route, she could have been one of the best weightlifters in the country? No, she'd be good. And, like, you know, I think she could probably, you know, have made that young Team USA, probably. Yeah. Maybe, you know. But, no teen team usa probably yeah maybe you know but no she was she's not going to olympics that's the perfect crossfit thing that's actually why i fell

in love with crossfit right away because i have no chance genetically of being in the top quarter percent of anything yeah but i can out athleticism most people she's like i can just go play games she doesn't move as well as you know like even her room is good obviously but it's not perfect yeah you know ryan moves you see him moves like a deer it's like yeah you know it's funny i wonder if you were to take because um who were we jason phillips mentioned it i think hinshaw mentioned it and and when we interviewed him, of like if you could get these people, and it would be terrible for their careers almost, but as far as athletic development,

if you could get them to look at almost not on a four-year quad, but like on a two-year thing, you're like, look, you're just not going to go to the games next year. You're not going to go to the games next year because we're going to go on a six-month hypertrophy phase. And then we're going to go on a massive Olympic lifting phase. And while you're doing all that, you're going to spend like two hours a day on a rower and doing tons of long intervals. And we're just going to build this system so that you're untouchable in two years.

But you just have to take a year off and just let the coach do the coaching thing. And let the body just adapt to this massive like longer training period because right now i think that the way that the open and the sanctional thing is set up right now you're going to see a lot of broken individuals this year just because it's like the grid season when the grid showed up everybody broke yeah because it went from open regional games grid open regional games grid and all of a sudden everybody was just banging heavy barbells no off season trying to maintain yeah so if you gave somebody an additional 18 month off season from games skip a year and then you put them into a heavy peak phase, like going into the next season, whatever it is.

It would be a massive improvement. Yeah, and someone like Haley, I mean, she's crushing right now. She's, like, 18, 19 years old. That would be great for her to win. So she goes into the 2021 games at 21 years old with a two-year, like, just letting her body catch up. Perfect aerobic system with, you know, with unbelievable skills now and a little bit way lifting.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a great idea. You know, you've got to find an athlete who is willing to, you know, step back from Instagram and be like. She's making it rain right now, though. I know, she is. And, like, so it's tough. It's like, you know, to say that to her would be, like,

probably talking to the wall. But, like, if you talk about. It's like, you know, to say that to her would be like probably talking to the wall. But like if you talk about – It's like, have you seen my back pockets lately? Yeah. If athletics is all that's important. I'm currently 19, and it is raining right now. It would be tough. Yeah.

But like if all you cared about was your sport. Well, it's an interesting thing because the Olympians, when there isn't the year-to-year financial piece, and you get a quad with them, you actually get to set it all up. That's what you should do, yeah. So a lot of really good weightlifters take that very first year of the quad and it's like they're doing our parts for you

or they're doing whatever their weakness is and they don't even care about what happens at the world. I really want to see some of the numbers too because if you start to calculate an NBA player and the total number of minutes that they're on the court, you can really start to see a decline in their performance later in their career. Or it's not even the number of years. It's the number of hours and minutes they've played at the highest level yes so i would love to see if somebody was actually calculating the number of times you do a loaded squat at game speed not even game speed but like at training maxes

because that number on your joints has to be sure there's got to be a a spot where it's like you just can't do it anymore yeah your body i mean we are just one awesome machine it's like a car eventually if you drive your car 300 000 miles it's going to start to break down yeah and you drive it 400 000 it's going to break down yeah his body's the same yeah i believe we all have x amount of capacity i think you taught it you know stewart mcgill what you got have you ever had him on your show? I have never been on the show. You really would love to have him. He's got to go to Canada.

He's amazing. Anyway, so, you know, Stuart McGill would tell you that there's going to be a biological tipping point for everybody on everything. And once you reach that tipping point, that's a wrap. Yeah. So, you know, the reason he said that was talking about bilateral versus unilateral squatting. He says it really doesn't matter. It's like you're going to reach your biological tipping point on either one you do, and then The reason he said that was talking about bilateral versus unilateral squatting.

He says it really doesn't matter. You're going to reach your biological tipping point on either one you do, and then there's going to be injury. Yeah. And that's just it. And that's just the bottom line. Right on. Let's go get some food.

All right. Talk more about business. Talk more about training. Mash, where can I find you? Oh, mashelite.com, Instagram, masheliteperformance. Doug Larson. I'm just promoting Instagram today. No, do TikTok. No TikTok. No, do TikTok. Okay, I, MassElitePerformance. Doug Larson. I'm just promoting Instagram today. No, do TikTok. No TikTok.

No, do TikTok. Okay, I'll do TikTok. I like TikTok. Follow me on TikTok. I might have a poster, too. At Doug underscore Larson. And on Instagram, of course, at Douglas E. Larson. You have a poster, too, with some hardcore house music going on.

Dude, I only post. Will you guys help me do my first TikTok post? I would love to. We'd love to. We'll do it at breakfast. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We're the Shrug Collective at the Shrug Collective. OneTonChallenge.com.

Snatch, clean, jerk, squat, deadlift, bench. Get over to OneTonChallenge.com forward slash stronger. Download the 97-page e-book on making strong people stronger. That's you. You're in the 1,200 to 1,800 range, when you find your one-ton total, this book is written for you. OneTonChallenge.com forward slash stronger. We'll see you guys next week.

That's a wrap, friends. Online qualifier, OneTonChallenge.com forward slash qualify. Also, make sure you get over to ShruggedCollective.com forward slash get a part of the shredded nutrition. lose the body fat, get stronger, come hang out. I want to thank our sponsors over at Bioptimizers, p3om.com forward slash shrugged, as well as LibMomentous, L-I-B-E-M-O-N-T-O-U-S.com forward slash shrugged using the coupon code shrugged20 to save $20. We'll see you guys next week.