Barbell Shrugged - Finding Your Authentic Self Through Physical Movement – What We Can Learn From Competitive CrossFitter, Surf instructor, Firefighter, and Coach Vanessa Lambert — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #16

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey everybody, welcome to Muscle Maven Radio. I'm your host, The Muscle Maven, no real name required. I hope you're all doing well and I hope today's interview is as inspiring for you as it was for me. I may be a little bit biased because she's my friend, but I think Vanessa Lambert could definitely be in the running for world's most interesting woman. She has a super crazy story. She's so full of energy and enthusiasm and curiosity and positivity. And she has tried and accomplished more things during her time on earth so far than many people twice her age. And I think that the very least maybe her story will inspire you to, I don't know, try that hobby you've been wanting to get into that you've been putting off or look into that job that you wanted to try out for or just put yourself

Starting point is 00:00:50 out there for something you care about. Because as she will tell you in this interview, she's done that many times over and challenged herself and taken risks. And it's really paid off for her in her personal life, her career and just her happiness. So Vanessa right now is a health and life coach. She runs a company with her husband, Adam, that also includes a number of sort of fancy, healthy adventure retreats all over the world. They go to places like Costa Rica and Peru. It's pretty sweet. I mean, they get to plan these amazing, super luxurious, but beautiful and challenging and fun retreats. And that's part of their job. Anyway, they've got a cool one in

Starting point is 00:01:33 Montana coming up in September that I'm actually going on. So you can stay tuned for that. But she has also been a competitive CrossFitter. She's been a competitive surfer and surfing instructor. She's been a firefighter. And that's kind of like the tip of the iceberg. So see what I mean about the world's most interesting woman? It's crazy. Anyway, you got to hear her story in her words, and just be inspired by her energy, maybe learn a thing or two about finding and developing your own passions and discovering who you are and what you care about through physicality. Because I think I speak for most of my listeners when I say that we're all into working out, we're all into being physical and strong, but there is more to it than just

Starting point is 00:02:16 looking good and spending time in the gym. So without further ado, here's my chat with the world's most interesting woman, Vanessa Lambert. Vanessa, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast and record our girl chat. I'm so happy too. This is like a long time coming and it's so cool to just be able to do you and me. Yeah, I'm very, I know. Yeah, because no Adam. You know, he's great too, but sometimes it's nice to just have girl chats.

Starting point is 00:02:42 It is. It is. We'll probably go into different topics than if he was in the conversation for sure. But yeah, it's really fun to do this together. I was actually thinking this on my walk home from the dentist this morning, because that's the way you want to start your day is going to the dentist. But I'm, you know, hey, I'm grateful that I can go to the dentist and they can check out my teeth. Anyway, on the way home, and I was thinking about having this chat with you,

Starting point is 00:03:10 I was thinking that it is like, it's a great, I'm very grateful. And it is kind of selfish that I get to have these opportunities to, this is a work thing, we're talking for work. And this is going to help people and expose you to a lot of different people who are going to hear your story. And that's great. But it's also me being able to talk to one of my friends and ask them questions and sort of call it work. And it made me think like, do you have a hard time with your work schedule and you're traveling so much and all that stuff? Do you have a hard time sometimes keeping in touch with good friends and like booking in that sort of time to connect with them and check in with them and stuff like that? Are you pretty good at that? You know, it has been a challenge and especially the bigger our community grows, the more connections I have, the more people I would love to stay in touch with and

Starting point is 00:03:53 the more people that I genuinely care about. So, you know, the bigger that circle becomes, the more difficult it does to have like those touch points with every single person. But, you know, for my personal relationships, I really try to set aside like actual dedicated time. So my BFF, my like soul sister bestie is Katie Cordoza. And if folks out there don't know her, she's on Instagram and does all kinds of awesome fitness and nutrition stuff. But her and I actually schedule time to talk every Wednesday because we could go literally weeks without actually touching it if we didn't have that scheduled in. So we make a time,

Starting point is 00:04:30 it's on the calendar and we set it up and we talk every week. And so for folks like that, especially if I'm not in the logistical physical space, the same space as them, then I really do try to make like actual appointments to just touch in, even if it's for 15 minutes, 20 minutes to chat. But for our bigger community, especially with our wellness program and with our fitness programs and all of that stuff, that's what I love our online community for. We have such a great way to stay connected. And it's almost like the positive side of Facebook where you see that, oh, your cousin went to a concert and they had fun and you kind of get a little joy out of seeing that they had a little moment of joy. Our online community does that for us as well, where I get to just kind of keep in touch with people and what they're doing day in and day out. So it's given me a really

Starting point is 00:05:17 great structure for being able to have more connection with more people. And so for that, I'm really grateful about that online environment. Yeah, that's cool. I like the booking, the sort of weekly time. I've actually sort of tried to varying degrees of success to do that with some friends too. I think I've been pretty good about it with my good friends just because I moved away right after college and I was living in Bermuda and then I was living in New York and kind of traveled all over the place. And now all of my best friends are kind of spread all over sort of North America. So we it was sort of a necessity. And even, you know, a decade ago, 10, 12 years ago, social media was not what it is now.

Starting point is 00:05:57 And even then it was sort of it was different. You didn't really communicate the same way that you do now electronically. So we had to like talk on the phone and make sure we did that. And I do sometimes feel like I'm letting it slip through the cracks, but like, like little things, like I have friends on WhatsApp. Do you use WhatsApp at all? I do actually. Yeah. We use it for all of our retreats. So yeah. Yeah. It's good for like international friends, right? Like if you're not like texting people, it's confusing. And like, I'll do with some of my good friends, like I'll do like video messages or audio messages instead of just texting. So like once a week, I'll be like, all right, friend, let me tell you like how my day is going. I mean, sort of maybe it's annoying

Starting point is 00:06:33 sometimes. Like get up, she's getting ready for work. And she'll kind of like listen to it in here. And it is a richer form than texting. And it's not as rich as being in the space with the person, but that's not an option. So I think, I guess it goes back to like mindful use of social media and those kinds of technologies. Like if your, if your best friend lives in the same city as you and you're texting her all day, every day, but not really getting together with her, then you're probably not using these things the best way that you can. However, if you have a best friend like I do that lives in San Francisco and I'm on the East coast, sometimes these like video chats are like the best you can do. And it's sort of like a richer way that you can observe what your friend's doing,

Starting point is 00:07:15 be a part of it, feel sort of the happiness that they're feeling or whatever. And yeah, I mean, I think that that's important, but it is, it is hard and you, you have, you take, take for granted that you have time, you know what I mean? So you're like, you know,'t feel like it. It's exhausting. I sound like an ungrateful asshole. No, it's just what's real for you. And the other thing that we really do and that has been a big sort of precipice for the way that we created our online communities and our retreats and such is that we really make it a huge importance to spend time with our friends in person. So we usually have one or two trips a year that we plan out and that we all come together and we take time and space. And one of those trips happens to be Burning Man, which is really cool because everybody's actually offline.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Like you put your phones for the week, you, um, sorry, did I say you put your phones up for the week? You put your phones away for the week. So you put your phones away, you're like really, really present and there's nothing to be done, but to be together. So, you know, we, we have made a huge priority to make sure that we get in physical space with the people we love. And it's been one of the things that's really catapulted the way we run our business because we know how important it is to have that physical time and connection and just space together. I want to talk about Burning Man a little bit later, but I feel like we need to get,

Starting point is 00:09:00 we need to talk a little bit about the backstory first. But I also just have to say that just to close off this topic about connection with people, this is one thing that I've also tried to expand with the work that I'm doing with these parties that I'm putting together these sort of like networking events that I want to either have near you or make you come to one at some point, because I think that, yeah, the human potential parties that I had one in New York in January, I've got one actually coming up very soon in Toronto. And it literally is exactly what we're talking about. It's like bringing together your community that you already have, that you mostly connect with online. And that's great. We learn from each other. We feel a sense of community. We feel supported and that's awesome. But because it's

Starting point is 00:09:44 so easy to have that sort of low level connection online, we don't often take the extra step to have the richer communication that happens in person. So I am kind of through these events, it's like I'm sort of gently, positively kind of forcing it to happen. Because as somebody who really does love to talk and learn and connect, but is also an introvert, like I have to make myself do this, just like a lot of people do. So I'm putting these events together that it's like, just come, there's going to be like delicious food and you can learn from people and you can hang out. But like, let's just get together in person and like look each other in the eye when we talk instead of just messaging on Instagram. You know what I mean? Just every once in a while, just try it. Totally. Totally. And I think people are longing for it. So you're responding to something inside of you, which is a reflection of what other people are feeling as well. So I think it's so awesome. I love that you're doing those and I can't wait to come to one. Yeah, I know. I got to have one on the West Coast. Yeah, let's do it. I'll help. That's going to be, that's on the short list. Okay. So before we go too far off the rails,

Starting point is 00:10:42 I would love for you to talk a little bit about, or a lot, we'll see how far this goes, just kind of introduce our listeners to who you are and a little bit about your background and then kind of tell us what you're doing right now. Cool. Awesome. So it really goes all the way back to childhood in the sense that I was the youngest of four, meaning two older cousins and then an older brother. So I kind of was bringing up the rear on my family, so to speak, or at least my closest family that I was in contact with on a regular basis. And all of them were very athletic. They were very outgoing. My brother was like an athletic superstar. So I was kind of like the runt of the family in a way. But I think that because my cousins were always leading the pack and always sort of like, they're a pretty wild bunch. I was always trying to keep up. So I was just kind of like, okay, I have to get over my fears. I have to get over my insecurities. I have to just like full speed ahead or else I'm getting left behind, you know?

Starting point is 00:11:51 So it really goes all the way back to just being kind of a shy, little skinny, tiny, you know, chipmunk of a girl and kind of having to step up and like be tough and, you know, become athletic and become more confident in my body and really step up into things that maybe I wasn't quite as prepared for as I'd like to be, but, you know, just wanted to be part of the gang and didn't want to get left behind. And, you know, that kind of translated into, you know, sort of teed off, like the way that my life would go. And I ended up, you know, playing soccer. I was in swimming. I did basketball and softball and volleyball. I was really into sports throughout my whole life. That was something that my parents were really

Starting point is 00:12:30 good about making sure that we had a lot of exposure to different athletics and different types of movement and really gave us a well-rounded physical education, so to speak. And that just created a lifelong passion and love for physical movement, for sport, for competition, for just really expressing myself through my body and having the sense of confidence and expression. It's almost like, and I'm sure you feel this, that your movement becomes your art. It becomes the way you tell your story about yourself and the way that you express who you are. And I've always found that movement and sport and physicalness has always been a way that I throughout the story, because I don't want to like lose fun things that I want to talk about or mention. But I just, I can relate very deeply to being, you know, having a lot of like siblings or other kids growing up. I was in the, I was a middle child, not the younger one, but like kind of being the runt and being like the little chipmunk, literally, I'm pretty sure that was a nickname of mine for

Starting point is 00:13:42 about 10 years, probably because of the cheeks, but also just being sort of the small one. But I kind of love that you, it seemed like it was sort of an intrinsic thing that you were like, all right, I've got these like athletic, high energy people that I love that I'm surrounded with. I'm this little munchkin, like I need to like, step my game up and like be sort of a force and like feel have that confidence. Was that was that something that you sort of always had from a young age or were you, did you, do you remember being younger and being, feeling like you needed to build up some confidence? Oh, I was painfully shy. And I mean, painfully, like when I say that, I mean it in the truest sense of the word. Like it hurt me

Starting point is 00:14:19 to interact with people. And I was such a mama's girl. I would hide behind my mom's legs. I was just so painfully nervous about my place in the world. And there's a really interesting story that we could get to later where I kind of had a very spiritual divine experience that gave me some insight around that. But I'll just say for now, I was really nervous about life. I didn't come out to the world like, yeah, I got this. I was like, whoa, it seems really sketchy out here. So I had to work at that. And lucky for me, my mom recognized at an early age that sport was a really great way to pull me out of that and to give me some of that physical competence and confidence that really helped me to transform that story. And one of those sports that you are pretty good at that

Starting point is 00:15:10 I think is pretty obvious, even just like looking at you and seeing the way you move, you were big into gymnastics for a while, right? Exactly. Yeah. So I would say that that's probably the most influential part of my athletic history because it translated into so many different things. And I always tell parents out there, if there's a few sports that you want to put your kids in to just give them a really well-rounded, make them very adept for a lot of physicality in their life, gymnastics, swimming, and soccer. Those three things were like the trifecta of physical competency for me that really translated into so many things in my life. Hey guys, quick interruption to tell you about my show sponsor, Highly. They make premium athletic

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Starting point is 00:17:27 And again, that code is Maven 15 at highlight.com. I did all three of those sports to high five electronic high five soccer though. I played like defense and I would just kind of like push people. So I would never be parted though. Cause I was like sneaky about it. I'm not a proud of this. You're like, but it works. I made that for my like lack of skill in soccer by kind of being like, sort of rough around the edges, which again, I was like, not big enough to really pull that off. I just anyway. Yeah, fake it till you make it, right?

Starting point is 00:17:58 Yeah, yeah. I would add to the physical competency growing up, and I don't have any kids. So I really, you know, whatever, take this with a grain of salt. But I do think that some form of sort of martial arts is really good too, because again, sort of like body awareness and also the confidence that you can build, like knowing how to defend yourself. And I've, you know, I've, I've done jujitsu and boxing and things like that. And I go to gyms where they have kids classes. And it's really kind of amazing to see because when you do teach kids when they're younger, it also teaches things like learning that it's okay to lose or that someone can kind of win this match, but you've got the next one and like, and taking a little bit of the personal upset out of winning and losing too, because it's a very personal thing when you lose. And especially when

Starting point is 00:18:45 it's like you versus one other person, but seeing the kids just sort of be super playful about it and positive about it. And like, they're just learning these incredible skills of like body awareness and self-defense. I feel like that's, that's huge. So anyway, that would just be cool. I totally agree. Yeah. I think that's a great addition for sure. So you were crushing gymnastics. What age were you doing that a lot? You know, it's funny. I was always kind of naturally a gymnast. So I was like the kid that was out on the playground, you know, doing cartwheels and

Starting point is 00:19:13 flips and things before I'd even enrolled in gymnastics. So I always kind of had a proclivity towards that kind of movement. And, you know, I was like, I know my aunts and uncles told stories about me like holding onto their hands and flipping, like walking up their body and flipping. And I was always just kind of like a little monkey, monkeying around. And so I lived in a small town at the time. So we didn't have a lot of really great advanced structured programs. So by the time that I joined, I think I was around maybe seven or so, eight. And so,

Starting point is 00:19:46 and I did that up until my early teen years. And that was just simply because I'd kind of maxed out on what was available in my community. And there wasn't really like a next level for me to go to, unless I wanted to move. And so I did have this sort of come to Jesus moment when I was in my early teens, where it was, you know, you're either like my mom was either going to relocate me to Santa Rosa, a neighboring town, or we could have actually commuted, but it would have been like a three hour commute each day. And so she was like, okay, you know, if you want to take it to this next level, this is the commitment. And we sort of both just decided that maybe it was time for me to focus on other

Starting point is 00:20:25 things and that maybe I didn't want to commit my whole world to gymnastics. But because of those formative years for doing that sport and being involved in it, it was just like gave me such a great foundation that I still carry to this day. Yeah, absolutely. What about the swimming? So yeah, swimming is actually another one that made a huge impact. And that's mostly because I just think there's no substitute for becoming comfortable with water. Like being able to manage yourself well in water is such a great skill just for fun, for playfulness. I mean, I'm sure, you know, living in Bermuda, like to know your body and to be comfortable in the water and to be able to navigate water and feel really like that's a second home, I think is such an irreplaceable

Starting point is 00:21:09 skill for folks. And for me, that translated later into becoming a surfer. And so, you know, when I was 17 or yeah, about 17, 18, no, sorry, 18, 19, I drove to Panama back and I learned to surf and I took nine months and literally surfed through the whole coast of Mexico and Central America and just committed to learning how to surf because it's like a high commitment sport. You have to like be in to actually, to actually gain the skillset to like really, really do the sport. So that translated into me, that swimming translated to me into like one of the great loves of my life, which became surfing later on. And, you know, I ended up moving to Hawaii. I competed a little bit. I was actually one of the first female surf

Starting point is 00:21:58 instructors in Maui where I lived. This is 20 years ago. So it's been a while and there's lots of women who are doing it now, but it was really cool. It was really something that gave me a whole new scope and a whole new world from just that swimming and understanding how to be active in water and how to be really in command of yourself in water. Okay. I love this surf story because I don't think I knew that actually about you. I was reading some bios earlier and I'm like, shit, I didn't know that you were one of the first female surf instructors in Hawaii. And you're like, I'm going to go commit myself to being super good at surfing.

Starting point is 00:22:32 And now I'm going to teach it to people. And that's super badass to me because I have a little bit of surfing experience, but it scares the shit out of me. And this is coming from someone who loves the water and loves to be in the water. And like you said, I feel very comfortable there. and surfing is scary, man. It's scary. Well, and you know, the ocean is just so unpredictable. You can learn, you know, about tides and you can learn about swell and direction and, you know, the landscape of the, you know, the seabed. So you can understand how waves work. But at the end of the

Starting point is 00:23:07 day, there's just always that sense of unknown. You don't know when there's going to be a sweeper set from the outside that just wipes out the whole lineup. You just don't ever really know. And so there is this sense of just kind of being very in flow, very in the moment because you have to be, there's no other choice. Like, and that's why I actually love surfing big waves because you are so present and everyone in the lineup is present, especially in LA where when it's a little bit smaller, everybody's a little grouchy and everyone's kind of fighting for waves. And there's just kind of this like yucky energy in the lineup. As soon as

Starting point is 00:23:45 the waves pick up and it's big, everyone's like, okay, game on, let's focus. All the bullshit leaves the water and it's just like, okay, let's do this. So for me, it's just always been a way that I can be deeply in the moment, deeply in flow state. And yeah, it's just, it's been such an amazing sport for me. And I guess it's a good reminder too of just how much is outside of your control and that's okay. And it's still just about, like you said, being present and doing what you can with the situation that's given to you.

Starting point is 00:24:15 Because I think oftentimes high performers, type A people and people who are in sports, it's like all about how good can you get and how proficient can you be and how many skills can you accrue and all that's great. But at the end of the day, like the ocean can still kick your ass. It doesn't matter how, it doesn't matter if you're Laird Hamilton or who you are, you know what I mean? Like this stuff can still get you. It will humble you every time. As soon as you think you have your shit together, it's like, ah, no. Yep. get any bad injuries? Um, no, you know, I've got a couple of pretty good

Starting point is 00:24:52 refreshes, obviously living in Hawaii, there's a lot of reef breaks. So you definitely get bounced off the reef, um, here and there. And so I definitely have my fair share of scars, like on my body overall that, um, you know, whatever, it's just part of the game. But, um, I definitely have my fair share of scars like on my body overall that, you know, whatever. It's just part of the game. But I have been held down a couple of times. One time in Maui, that was pretty scary where my leash actually got wrapped around a coral head. And the waves were so big that like the swell or like the momentum from the wave was pulling me away from where my leash was wrapped. And so I couldn't actually like my body was being pulled away from it so

Starting point is 00:25:32 forcefully that I couldn't like, I couldn't like crunch my abs up to like grab the leash and disconnect it. And, uh, I actually like started to lose consciousness just a little bit. And I was like, oh, my God, I had this thought. Oh, my God, if I die, my mom is going to be so upset. And so I just like had this one, you know, more push where I just kind of like gave it my all and was able to unhook my leash. And then I came untangled and popped up. And that was like a pretty scary moment. And it was actually one of the precursors to me leaving Maui. And, um, that was because I had been surfing out on the North shore at Ho'okipa, which, and on a pretty

Starting point is 00:26:14 big day, I think it was, you know, in Hawaii, they measure the waves differently. So they measure them from the back, but in California standards, you would say it was like a 15 foot, maybe 20 foot day on the face. And, um, this photographer actually had been on the shore taking photos and he, you know, came up to me afterwards and he was like, Hey, you know, it looks like you've got this aptitude for big waves. You know, I'd love to introduce you to Jeff Timponi, who is the shaper for the toe in boards that layered Hamilton and that whole crew uses out in Maui. He's like, I think you would do great at toe-in. Are you interested? And I was like, yeah, yeah,

Starting point is 00:26:50 that sounds cool. So he introduced me. We kind of started down the road. And then I had that day at Honolua Bay where I got held down. And I just had this moment where I was like, I'm going to get myself killed. I'm I'm just, I'm just crazy enough to actually put myself into that situation and to actually like, consider going out and, you know, toe in surfing and doing all that stuff. And I just had this moment where I was like, you know, at the end of the day, you're 5'3", you're 125 pounds. Like, you know, at the end of the day, that's real. You're not a dude. You're not Laird Hamilton. You're not one of these guys. And I just kind of had this moment where I was like, yeah, I loving surfing again and just surfing for fun. And now I still surf. I love, you know, bigger days, but I'm not about like trying to surf the biggest, baddest wave.

Starting point is 00:27:51 I'm not about trying to hurt myself anymore. Yeah, trying to push the limits. I love this again. Like you, you just like speak to me so much because I think you and I both have this like, I like to call it hate dysmorphia, because I think that I'm like a big, like giant, like, I don't know, intimidating force in the world. And I'm like, people don't even see me because they look over my head. Like, I think that I'm this like, big, solid, like tough thing. And I'm like, no, I'm actually, I'm short. And people kind of go

Starting point is 00:28:22 seriously sometimes because I'm smaller. And I'm like, well, I can prove them wrong, but I just kind of love that. You know, I mean, it's a good problem to have. It's better than, than, you know, the, I've a lot of people that I talked to a lot of women that I talked to who are really trying to work on their confidence and they do that by going to the gym, but like this fear of sort of taking up space. And I have like friends who are short or taller than me that I've, I've thought were the same height as me forever because of the way they hold themselves, right? I'm like you, I'm a swimmer, I'm a gymnast, I have these broad shoulders and I kind of like walk around like I like think I'm tough. And I have these like beautiful girlfriends of mine who are like 5'7 that kind of just sort of just, you know, hold themselves in a little bit. And they're like,

Starting point is 00:29:00 well, I don't want to, you know, be this big sort of space in the world. And I'm like, no, hold it, hold those shoulders up, do that. Because that's our problem is if anything, we have to like rein it back sometimes and remember that we're, but you know, I mean, I think it's less about you thinking like, I'm, I'm a little girl, like this isn't for me. And it's more about recognizing what you wanted to do with surfing. You wanted to have fun and learn and experience and be present and not necessarily just chase the scariest wave you can, right? Totally. And there are so many other ways to be in the challenge and in the process of perfecting surf without it having to be bigger and scarier waves. And so for me, it's like I've been surfing for over 20 years now. And I just like every time it's still a learning curve.

Starting point is 00:29:47 I'm still learning, you know, how to read the waves better, how to, you know, make a turn harder. And there's always new technology and new boards coming out. And it's just for me been one of the most beautiful love affairs of my life because it's just something that you can sink yourself into from so many different directions. And yeah, I've just been so grateful that I got the opportunity to actually have the time to dedicate to that sport to get that first start. So I could really, you know, know how to like actually know how to surf. And then from there, it's just about like everything else is just fun

Starting point is 00:30:20 and gravy. Yeah, that's awesome. When you were teaching, were you like teaching mostly women or was it mostly dudes who were interested in surfing? How did that work? It was all, yeah, it was all kinds of folks. And, you know, lots of people coming from middle America, obviously going on vacation in Hawaii who weren't super comfortable in the water. So, you know, you're trying to help people understand the dynamics of the water and also get them comfortable in their own skin. And I love teaching. And, you know, I've been a coach not because it was the path I necessarily chose for myself, but because it always chose me. And surfing was the same way.

Starting point is 00:30:57 You know, I was out surfing with one of my friends who owned a surf school. And he was like, you need to come teach with us. Like, it would be so fun. And, you know, so I was like, oh, okay, I could do that. And, you know, it's one of those things that like seeing someone catch their first wave or seeing somebody deadlift, you know, or like have their max deadlift or whatever it is, having that moment where you get to see somebody achieve something that maybe they didn't ever think they would do in their life is one of the coolest experiences. And so, yeah,

Starting point is 00:31:25 I just, I love that there was all different kinds of people. There were all different kinds of walks of life and ages and sizes. And, you know, sometimes it'd be grandmas and grandpas. It was just so cool. That's amazing. Okay. So when you decided that you didn't necessarily want to tempt death every day and surfing in Hawaii Hawaii was, as far as career goes, was kind of running its course. So what came next? So yeah, actually, so to backpedal just a little bit, when I was 18, I, you know, was trying to figure out how to put myself through college and how to, you know, make all that stuff happen. And so I actually became a firefighter for CAL FIRE.

Starting point is 00:32:07 And so I became a seasonal firefighter. And that means that primarily you focus on wildland firefighting. And as you know, California is a hotbed for fire. So when you enroll in that line of work, it's a pretty wild ride and a pretty crazy experience. And so for me, I had fought two seasons of fires, meaning I'd worked two summers in a row. Then I moved to Hawaii. Before I moved to Hawaii, I actually, at the end of our season party, it was like kind of a Halloween bash. I ended up running into Adam. And for folks out there who don't know, Adam's my husband and Adam and I actually were rookie firefighters together. So we started, I was 18, he was 20. We started the same year for Cal Fire. And so we knew each other through the fire department and through, you know, kind of

Starting point is 00:32:56 working in the same unit. We didn't work at the same station, but we worked around each other and sort of knew each other. And I happened to run into him at this party before I was permanently moving to Hawaii. So I'd actually shipped my car, I'd shipped all my stuff and I was like, okay, I'm going back and I'm going to like live there and give a run at this real surfing thing and go all the way. So I had run into him and he walked in the room at this party and all of a sudden I was like, oh my God, that's my person. And it just hit me like a lightning bolt. What was he dressed as? It was a Halloween party, right? What was he wearing?

Starting point is 00:33:29 So he was wearing like a, I don't know if you know it, but it's an old Clint Eastwood movie. And he was, it's called something Josie Wales. And so like he was dressed kind of like a, like a cowboy sort of, but like with a poncho on. I don't know. Yeah. He's a dreamboat too. He's like a nice, tall, you know, handsome dude. So that makes sense. Well, and that's what's so crazy about it because I'd known him for a few years and I'd never noticed that until this exact moment. And I was like, how did I never notice him? He's really hot.

Starting point is 00:33:59 And, uh, and so I don't know, but people talk about when you have that lightning bolt moment and when you just know somebody is your person. And I literally just had this moment and I walked over to him. He was sitting on the back of this couch. So he was facing away from me. And I kind of just came around. I was dressed as Catwoman. So I kind of Catwoman-ed around. And I actually just crawled up in his lap and I looked in his eyes and I was just like, I don't know. It was just like this spark, this moment. And, um, you know, we ended up hanging out a little bit. I went home. He went like he was at his home actually is at his house. So the next weekend, um, the reason I happened to be there for this party is that my little brother had eloped and he decided to get married. And so my parents were going to throw him a, like a shower, not a shower, but a reception. And so that's why I actually had stayed a week longer for my brother's reception. And so that's why I ended up running into Adam. That whole thing happened. And so I invited Adam to come to the party. He ended up meeting my whole family. Like it was just really weird. It was just like,

Starting point is 00:35:04 I don't know. It was just super meant, I don't know. It was just super meant. I don't know. It was just like meant to be somehow, but I had already sent all my stuff. I was moving to Hawaii. So like I left a week later for an entire year and we stayed in contact. We talked every week. We were like emailing back and forth. We just like didn't have any plan to be together, so to speak, but we just kept this line of connection and our friendship and our love and just our, I don't know, I guess connection really is the best word, just grew over the course of that year. So as I was sort of starting to wind down this surfing story, I'd come back to California to visit my parents for a week and

Starting point is 00:35:44 he came to see me. And pretty much as soon as I saw him, it was like, I'm moving back. We're going to be together. It's over. This is on. I can't fight fate anymore. So yeah, so I ended up moving back to California. And that's where Adam and I really started our relationship. And that started the whole next chapter. Clint Eastwood and Catwoman belong together. You guys are always good. You guys are always on point with your costumes because I see your Burning Man photos. I'm like, I'm into it.

Starting point is 00:36:11 And I appreciate that Adam is willing to like go all in on the costumes too, because I find sometimes dudes tend to be a little bit less fun in that regard. You know, they're like, they don't want to put themselves out there, but I like that. And I also like the demonstration of the confidence that you were building over time,

Starting point is 00:36:28 completely crystallizing in you literally crawling into his lap like a cat. I know. And it's so funny because like, it's just not something I would normally do either. Like, it was all so like out of character and out of this world that like there was nothing else that you could just say than like it was meant to be. And world that like there was nothing else that you could just say than like it was meant to be. And I do think it's super funny that our relationship started in costumes because we like love the costumes. We go all in at Burning Man for sure. It's totally on brand for you guys. Your mermaid costume is like my favorite. Like I would just wear that all day, every day. Technically I could, like I don't have to go to an office,

Starting point is 00:37:04 so I could dress up like a mermaid every day, but I loved it a lot. I mean, that's kind of why I live in Venice because I really like to keep the costumes going like year round and you could do it here. I'm into it. Okay. So now we have to talk about the fact that you were a firefighter because I'm just so obsessed with it. And I don't want to like, I don't want to like hammer home like, oh, you're a small girl and you're a firefighter. Like how crazy is that? But I mean, it kind of is.

Starting point is 00:37:29 It's kind of crazy though. It is impressive. And not even just from a female perspective, like we all know, you and I also come from a CrossFit background. Like we know that women are capable of being incredibly strong and physically competent. We may have to work a little bit harder

Starting point is 00:37:41 because we start out smaller and with less muscle, but that whole myth of like, women can't do pull ups, because your arms aren't strong enough. Like, we know that that's all bullshit. Now, however, like, we know firefighters, we know the kind of training you have to do the kind of like weights you have to lift the kind of you have to be able to move bodies, you have to do all this stuff. And being small, whether you're a man or a woman, like that's tough. You don't see a lot of five foot three firefighters, you know what I mean? Like, what, what made you decide to get into that line of work and what kind of training did you have to do to be competent in that? Yeah. I mean, and honestly, I will just say right up

Starting point is 00:38:14 front that it is the hardest thing I've ever done. And like you said, you know, I've competed in CrossFit, I've surfed big waves. I've done like a lot of stuff that's hard. There's nothing harder than carrying the equivalency to your own body weight on your back and hiking up a mountain at a fast pace, trying to like put a fire out. There's just like nothing that even comes close. So it was really hard. And honestly, to this day, I'm like, that is the hardest thing I've ever done. But the reason I got into it was again, you know, I was looking for a way that I could work part-time and put myself through school and not be saddled with this working 40 hours a week or 30 hours a week and also going to school and having that whole

Starting point is 00:38:57 paradigm because that just was such a miserable college experience. So I was like, okay, well, if I can work five months a year and then go to school in the off season, that's great. And so I just kind of got into it out of a means of necessity. But I did also have family friends who were in the fire service and who encouraged me to do it and said, you know, I think you're, you're quote unquote tough enough. Like you could, you could probably do this. And it's a great way to like support yourself and again, put yourself through school and maybe you end up loving it and making a career out of it, which Adam, my husband did. He was actually a firefighter. He just left the firefighting service this last July. So he ended up doing it for 22 years. But for me, it was really

Starting point is 00:39:39 a means to the end and just to get myself through school and to kind of make that financial scene work while I was getting through college. And so, yeah, that's sort of what spurred it on though, was just a family friend saying, Hey, I think you should do this. One of the things too, that, I mean, I know a couple of firefighters and also nurses and people who do shift work, because usually you guys do sort of like a couple of days on, couple of days off thing, right? One of the toughest parts about this besides the, obviously the physical part of it is that, um, that lifestyle, like that schedule is really hard for people. Cause you're working 24 hour shifts or you're working night shifts. And then a couple of days later you're

Starting point is 00:40:16 working day shifts. Like, how did you, how did you manage that? You know, it's funny you say that because it was actually the one reason. And like, I mean, there was a few reasons, but the one main reason I knew I would not make a career out of it is because of the sleep schedule. Because you could be up, you know, for 24 or 48 hours at a time and then have 24 hours off and then be back out on the fire line. And your sleep schedule and the level of exhaustion was, for me me intolerable. I was like, this is not something that I want to do for my lifetime. And I think some people cope better with less sleep or lack of sleep or different sleep schedules. I myself always knew before it was popular to know that sleep was good for you. I always knew I needed my sleep. And I was like, this lifestyle is not for me. So to be perfectly honest, I just sucked it up while I was doing it. There's no choice. That's the schedule. That's what it is. And you just do it. There's not really a lot of anything that you can do, but just get sleep when you can and make up for it in the off season, to be fair.

Starting point is 00:41:23 And it's been one of the main things for Adam over the course of his career that he's had to combat is dealing with that shift work. And, you know, dealing with the loss of sleep and the different sleep cycles. And it takes a serious toll on people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was going to ask them because Adam obviously did this job longer than you, like how he managed it. But I don't know. I mean, you can tell me, but I don't know if there longer than you, like how, how he managed it. But I don't know. I mean, you can tell me, but I don't know if there are any sort of like secrets, right? It's

Starting point is 00:41:49 like, you've got to do the best you can with your food and your stress management and hydration and trying to get your sleep as much as you can and blah, blah, blah. But like, we all know you can have pretty much every lifestyle factor, a hundred percent sorted out. And if your sleep is garbage, it almost doesn't matter. It starts with sleep, man. Yeah. Absolutely. It's just like, do you have the resiliency to kind of get through it rather than how can you hack your way into thriving despite the schedule? Because the schedule just isn't natural at all. 100%. And that's exactly what it is. You're buffering it the best you can. You are not

Starting point is 00:42:24 thriving no matter what. People who are used to it might think, oh, yeah, I'm fine. But it's just because they're used to it. It is not an optimal state for the body whatsoever. And, you know, Adam did a great job of doing the best he could. But this is why, you know, police and fire have the highest rates of cardiovascular disease because it just, it's not natural for your body to buffer this kind of stress and, you know, in interrupted sleep. Yeah. And it's so chronic. It's like, this isn't like something that happens once in a while. And then you kind of recover from it. It's like, that's your life. That's your life. Exactly. Okay. Tell me about when you guys got into CrossFit. Yeah. So it's a funny story because, you know, Adam actually working as a firefighter, Okay. Tell me about when you guys got into CrossFit. So he's always had a keen interest in health and fitness and that kind of physicality. Obviously, as a firefighter, like that's a big part of the job and there's a huge physical demand. So he was always trying to optimize that.

Starting point is 00:43:32 And this was kind of like the days of a lot of bodybuilding and sort of men's health type strength and conditioning. And, you know, that has its place. There's actually, you know, it depends on what your goals are. Like that's not I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it wasn't great for his performance goals and for being, you know, as optimized as he could be physically. So he started doing some Googling around in, um, Chico and happened to find this guy named Rob Wolf who had this small little garage gym in this, you know, sort of like industrial area in the outskirts of Chico. And it was called

Starting point is 00:44:07 CrossFit. And I think it was the second or third CrossFit at the time. It was, yeah, I think maybe the third CrossFit. So. Yeah, Rump was real OG. Oh, super OG. Yeah. So like, you know, we didn't, we'd never heard the term CrossFit. It was like, it wasn't even a thing. So, you know, he went out there and Adam tried a class and he's like, yeah, I think you should try this. You would really like it. So fast forward, you know, a couple years later, we just ended up being, you know, major parts of that gym and parts of that NorCal strength and conditioning. It was NorCal strength and conditioning or it was NorCal CrossFit depending on Rob's relationship with CrossFit at the time. But, you know, we ended up competing and going to the games and we, yeah, we just kind of ended up really going the whole route with that. And

Starting point is 00:44:50 it was super fun. It was like, it was in the infancy of CrossFit. So this was when like mere mortals were competing. Not like, you know, gods. All you have to do is watch the first documentary. I think it was every second counts or whatever the first one was where OPT won for the guys. And like, you can look and see what their bodies looked like. And I was like, oh, like those girls look like sort of tiny bit fair version of me. And now you look at it, you're like, they're all like cyborgs. Like those people don't even look like cyborgs anymore. They're gladiators now. Yeah, it's crazy too when you see like the numbers and how they've gone up. Like again, it's sort of like back. Well, I mean, again, when you get any, when you create a sport, obviously it's going to grow and professionalize and people are going to start like taking it more increasingly seriously and stuff. But yeah, in the first couple of years when you could compete, when you were a decent athlete who, you know, did this part time. And like, that's remarkable. Now,

Starting point is 00:45:45 it's just hilarious. Yeah, yeah, that was exactly what and for us, it was really, you know, to me, I actually have a lot of positive things to say about CrossFit, because I think it has done more good for the overall level of education and understanding about body awareness and, you know, using your body for sport and using your body for, you know, to understand how to be a physical person. You know, before that, everything was just kind of compartmentalized. And so if you were an athlete, you did this sport, and maybe you did some strength and conditioning, some Olympic lifting, but like everybody was very specialized. And I think it's done an amazing job at giving people a really high level of physical education and aptitude. So I actually love CrossFit. I have like really good things to say about it. But at that particular

Starting point is 00:46:38 time, I really loved it because it was truly about the smallest dose for the largest, or I guess they call it the minimum effective dose. And that was really the point of it back then. So we didn't overtrain, we didn't do three wads a day. We really were about how can we maximize, you know, whatever physiology changes that we want to get out of this in a small amount of time. And so it was a really special time of like us spending the other time playing in the gym, hanging on the bars, trying to learn how to do muscle ups, like just playing and having fun as a group in the community rather than trying to kill ourselves on every wad. So it was a really, really fun and special time. Yeah. I mean, CrossFit is a fantastic concept and better for some people than others.

Starting point is 00:47:26 But it's like pretty much like any sort of exercise methodology that it's like, it's how you use it. And you can use it or abuse it or overuse it. Or you can, you know, use it to do great things for yourself and for other people. So I don't think Yeah, I mean, I think to condemn anything, like whether it's CrossFit or bodybuilding or whatever to say across the board, like it's not good. I mean, that's kind of silly. I think that it's CrossFit has done some fantastic things for a lot of people. And I feel the same way as you, like I've always been into like being strong and having muscles and like being physical. And when I learned about CrossFit and was like, yeah, chicks are like crushing pull-ups and like deadlifting twice their body weight. Like sign me up for that. As someone who I'm not like the typical woman anyway,

Starting point is 00:48:11 because I've always been in this world where like it was okay and encouraged to be strong, where a lot of women don't get that kind of support, but even being like leveling it up again to CrossFit where it's like, no, you can be like real strong girl. Like this is like a whole level of strong. I'm like, yes, please. Okay. So when you guys were like competitive, so you guys were on a team together. Yep. What year was it? You remember? So this would have been 2009, I believe. So it would have been like 2007, 8, 9, like in that timeframe. And I think we went to the games, I want to say in 2008 or 2009. It was the last year that it was still at the ranch. So it was before they moved it to Southern California. So it was still at Dave's Ranch just outside of Gilroy. And it was like, I kind of think it was the end of an era in terms of it was like the last kind of family style of it. And so, yeah, we actually had

Starting point is 00:49:07 all tried out for the individuals and we ended up placing my, again, my bestie Katie and I, I think we came in like 11th and 12th. We came just outside of the top 10. And that was the first year that they were only taking the top 10 competitors and the individual. So, and I don't remember where the guys placed, but we ended up just having the affiliate team, doing the affiliate team. And so it was awesome because it was like our besties and we all trained together all the time anyway. And so, yeah, we ended up training for that affiliate, which we ended up taking third. And yeah, it was just really fun. It was like family style. And the people we trained with, the people in that community are to this day, still some of our closest and dearest friends. So we're so grateful for like that environment. And you know, you know how it is, if you suffer

Starting point is 00:49:53 together, you stay together, right? So like, those are literally our best friends, the people we suffered the most with. Yeah. What kind of like movements and workouts did you like the most? Because I wonder if you were like me, like when I got into it, I was like, yeah, I'm going to be one of the strong ones. Because again, my dysmorphia, like think that I'm like, like the Hulk when I'm actually not. Yeah, like, I'm gonna be strong. But actually, it was like the gymnastics background, like I was tended to be better at like bodyweight movements and like muscle ups and pull ups and things like that. What kind of stuff were you into? Yeah. And I was actually pretty strong. So like, um, you know, deadlifting thrusters, um, I did actually have pretty good clean and jerk and snatch. Like I was pretty decent at the O lifting stuff. Um, but yeah, you know, I could go for days on, um, on kipping pull-ups, which, you know, that was like back then we'd just started doing like the circular kipping pull-ups. So that was the big thing to master. And so, yeah, you know, I had definitely the things that I was not good at was definitely the endurance stuff. So like

Starting point is 00:50:56 anytime we had to run for distance, I'd die. Cause let's be real short people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if you've done it, short people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if you've done it, but I've had my genetic testing done and I have like all strength alleles and all speed alleles. You might be good at like lifting weights. I'm like, yeah, I am. Yep. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:51:17 You're good at lifting things and going really fast for a short amount of time. And that's about it. Yeah. Don't run any marathons. Totally. Totally. That's cool. All right. So, and then that was that something that sort of kind of just like ran its course too, or you like, obviously you still incorporate a lot of CrossFit stuff in your workouts as do I, but you know, that's not something you're, you're spending a ton of time

Starting point is 00:51:39 on. Is that just sort of like, all right, we've got what's next kind of situation? Yeah, exactly. I think we all just kind of ran out our time with CrossFit and just felt like, okay, you know, I've kind of done that kind of got to the level that I think I'm going to go to. And yeah, just didn't really want to train that way anymore. Honestly, just didn't like feel the need, quite frankly, to suffer and like try to kill myself at every single, you know, workout session. And, you know, not that you have to do that. Obviously you can have strength days and you can have gymnastics days and you can have that. But I've always just been interested in a whole breadth of movement and I've always

Starting point is 00:52:14 wanted to switch it up. That's just who I am. I love to learn new movement patterns. I love to like sink into new methodologies. And so for me, it was like, okay, I think I kind of got the education out of this that I want. And now it's for me, I really just like I train myself now because it's really like, I don't know that there's a coach out there that would train me the way I want to be trained, if that makes sense. And so yeah, Adam and I are pretty particular about like how we train and we just, we kind of don't want to be told what to do. I'm sure you could relate to that. Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's like a maturity thing, right? Like you said too,

Starting point is 00:52:54 you got what you needed out of CrossFit, which is great. It's all about sort of different phases in your life and the things that you have going on and you can take all of those things that you learned and apply it to the next phase. But yeah, I think once you, almost once you get to like a certain age, you're like, I got it now. Okay. I know what the body needs and what my body wants and what I feel like. And if I, you know, I, maybe when I was 22 and the gym said, you got to do like a hundred snatches today, I would have been like, Oh God. Okay, fine. Now I'm just like, now I'm good. No, I'm not going to do that. I don't need that anymore guys. But I do have a question, though.

Starting point is 00:53:26 And I feel like I asked you this maybe the last time we chatted. But when you, and we're going to have to get into, like, the actual work that you're doing, too, because that'll sort of explain what your, like, day-to-day life is like. But do you, you've got your sweet outdoor gym, right? That's, like, you get to work out in the sunshine. So super jealous, first of all. Somebody who you and I are the same that like physical movement and that kind of stuff is very important. And it's always going to be sort of entrenched in your life and your schedule no matter what. And that's like, it's a non-negotiable, non-negotiable. You're going to be working out in some capacity all

Starting point is 00:53:58 the time because that makes you feel good and it's important to your life. But do you feel like you need to have some kind of goal or something, some kind of physical thing to work towards? Or are you at this point sort of okay with like, I'm just going to work out and move my body the way it feels good. I don't really need to have any sort of plan. Like what's your kind of feeling on that right now? Yeah. I still go through phases with that. So sometimes I'm like, yeah, I really want to get focused. I really want to maybe get a little stronger or get a little leaner. Or for instance, we take groups to Machu Picchu every year. So we do a 10-day hike through the Salcanday Trail. And so it's like sometimes I'll be focused on getting stronger for that particular event or that particular activity. But for me, at this point, most of it

Starting point is 00:54:47 really comes down to just maintenance. I just really want to maintain the muscle mass that I've built and maintain the flexibility and the physical aptitude. And it's really a lot about maintenance. And so I still do a lot of yoga. I love Pilates. I've done Pilates for like 20 years. I still do a lot of things that are also just kind of like round out my physical practice. And I just play a lot. So I like to be able to go on big hikes and I like to go surfing. I like to do things that showcase or that utilize like what I've built over the years, this arsenal of fitness. And so for me, it's like, what's the point of having all of this if you don't use it for something? And to me, that something is different all the time. It could be a hike. It could be Burning

Starting point is 00:55:34 Man where we're just trying to look good. It could be different things at different times, but it's about just maintaining a certain base level. And then from there, sort of just picking a path here and there, depending on what I'm doing. Yeah. Okay. I love that. I think I need to hear it too, because I have, I'm the same as you. Like I go through phases where I'm like, I need to have a plan. I need to have a reason to come in because I'm going to come in anyway, but I'd really like to have, you know, to be working towards something. And then I have times where I'm like, you know, it's okay if I'm just moving my body for it feels good. I look pretty good. I'm happy with that. I don't need to constantly be striving for the next thing, but I do go back and forth. It is something I kind of struggle with.

Starting point is 00:56:11 Well, I think you need to know yourself because if you're the type of person that if you don't have a very succinct plan and goal and methodology that you don't follow your own intuition about things to work out and to stay physical, then I think it is important for those people to have very succinct plans. But if you're someone who works out every day because it's so intuitive and it's so who you are and you don't necessarily need to have a goal that you're striving for at all times, then I think that's okay too. I think it's really about knowing yourself and how you will thrive in your own practice. Yeah. And I think that's okay too. I think it's really about knowing yourself and like how you will thrive in that, in your own practice. Yeah. And I think it's also about how the goal or lack of goal makes you feel because you want to feel like you are doing something good for yourself or for the world or whatever. And if you work out all the time with no goal and it makes you feel

Starting point is 00:57:02 fulfilled and happy and in a better mood, then that's great. You don't need a goal. And conversely, if you always have to have a goal, like a bodybuilding show or a CrossFit competition, and it actually stresses you the hell out, maybe you shouldn't have a goal for a while. Maybe you can just move your body and feel good about it. But it's really, I think, just being purposeful in whichever direction you decide to take, just being purposeful about it and not just going through the motions because, you know. A hundred percent. Yeah, I totally agree. Okay. So let's move forward here because we can just keep... Yeah. There's a lot of rabbit holes, right? Yeah. It's so easy to go down rabbit holes. So at some point you guys get married, you decide to

Starting point is 00:57:40 start a business together that is coaching and then eventually going on these amazing retreats, bringing people on these retreats. Talk a little bit about that process, how you decided like, we're going to be partners and also start this company together. Yeah, totally. So we were really lucky in the sense that when we moved to LA, and initially we'd moved to LA because I'm a musician and I was really pursuing my music career. And so, you know, I've had like 50 lives, so that's just, you know, one episode. But while I was here, um, yeah, I know it's like, that's a whole nother rabbit hole, but we won't go down it. Um, but go ahead. Do you, do you play an instrument? Do you sing? What's the, what?

Starting point is 00:58:21 Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I play guitar and i write songs and um you can actually find me on spotify i go by nesta which is n-e-s-t-a with an exclamation mark of course um but yeah so i've got uh three albums and singles and all kinds of stuff out there yeah dude all right this afternoon okay that might have to be a whole other podcast, but amazing. I'd moved down here. We'd moved down here originally because I was really pursuing that. And that was always like a deep-seated goal and dream in my life to kind of see that through. And while we were here, Rob introduced me to Mark Sisson. So I started working with Mark and actually started the very first coaching program that he offered. It was, you know, sort of an executive coaching program. So I was the main coach. We had a couple other coaches and we, you know, offered coaching services through Primal Blueprint. And at some point I said to Mark, you know, what do you think about running some retreats? I would really love to have some live events for these people that we're coaching to come to where we could get some hands-on time with them and really train them in person.

Starting point is 00:59:28 And so Mark was like, yeah, let's do it. So we ended up – the very first iteration of all of this was the Primal Luxury Retreats that we did in Malibu with Mark. And that was about, gosh, eight years ago or something. And Adam and I loved it. We loved the retreats. We loved the dynamic of hosting those events, having those really intensive and in-person and commutal experiences. Mark, however, it wasn't his favorite. He's great and he's so good at so many things, but hosting events and kind of being in that world wasn't as much his favorite thing. And so at some point he said, why don't you guys keep doing this and I'll just refer people to you. You know, I trust you. Like,

Starting point is 01:00:10 obviously we've worked together. I feel good about that. Why don't you actually start running these retreats, you know, under your own brand and sort of encouraged us to branch out and, you know, was super supportive and amazing because he is a G and we love him. Yeah, he's everyone's favorite silver fox. We have parties with him. He is the best. I know. You and I got the chance to like have a little love obsession with him at Paleo Effects last

Starting point is 01:00:32 year. Yeah, he's the best. Okay, continue. Yeah. So anyhow, so then that's where Be The Wellness was formed. And I just had a moment like this kind of download where I was like, I want to call it Be The Wellness. And it's just Be The Wellness you wish to see in the world was like the initial

Starting point is 01:00:48 line that came into my head. And that's kind of a play off of Gandhi's line, be the change you wish to see in the world. And I just thought, you know, I want to just have this community where it's all about embodying the, the beauty and the power and the strength and the health and all this like glory that is available to us in the human experience. And so Be The Wellness is really just an expression of that, expression of us wanting to create a real community and sort of a real container for all the things that we believe in and that we love and that we know have made such a profound difference for us in our life. And that, you know, is the strength and conditioning that is mindfulness and meditation, that's sport, it's travel, it's good food. It's all of those things that create this whole

Starting point is 01:01:35 sort of embodied life. And so, yeah, we started doing our own retreats, I think about, um, yes, six or seven years ago, maybe eight years ago. And yeah, it's just been, it's been really fun. We love it so much. And so we have an online community where people can take strength and conditioning classes. We have pull-up challenges, handstand challenges, all kinds of mini challenges. We also have a super awesome Build a Better Booty program. So people out there who are into glute work, that's really my favorite program. And a lot of what I focus on these days is a lot of glute training and that sort of specific stuff. And then we also have another program that I offer called Authentic Self. And that's more of a spiritual development, personal development

Starting point is 01:02:20 program. And so there's this whole arsenal of programs and coaching that you can be part of. And then we also offer the experiences so people can come with us and join on one of these, you know, experiences of a lifetime as we like to refer to them and use, like I was talking about earlier, use all of those tools and things they've been building up, use all that health and nutrition and happiness in a real world setting to have amazing experiences. I have asked you this a couple different times, and I think I still have a hard time getting my head around how the two of you can do all of that. You're offering a lot. And I've spent some time with this. I'm going on a retreat with you guys in September in Montana. So pumped for that. You've got like these online courses and programs. You interact with people. And I know you had a

Starting point is 01:03:12 physical space, but I think not anymore, right? Where you were like actually physically training people? No, you know, actually we've never had a brick and mortar. So we've always just done them more in events. I mean, since we left CrossFit and left our days at Rob Wolf's gym, Adam did used to coach people there. But yeah, we've never actually had a proper brick and mortar. Okay. So you've got all these programs and I don't know, we can talk about how many people are taking all these different programs and a lot of them are connected or progressive and you can take one and then go on a retreat or not. And you can take this bigger one or you can just take the booty one, but there's so much going on. And then you've got these big retreats, a couple every

Starting point is 01:03:48 year, you've got your B-Fest every, that's going to be a yearly thing. Like how do you, and you don't have any other coaches or anybody else. Like it's just you two really for the most part. So how are you managing that on a day-to-day basis? Well, yeah, it's interesting. We don't have kids. I'll start with that because I think that that actually is a big one. It's just literally us taking care of ourselves and our baby is our business. And I think that that makes a big difference, honestly, for us is that we have the time and the energy to put into something like this, where I think a lot of people, if you have family and you have a lot of exterior responsibility, maybe you wouldn't have the resources energetically, financially, whatever to, you know, immerse yourself in, in this kind of level of work. But, um, I will say

Starting point is 01:04:35 that's a big benefit for us is that we just, we don't have anyone that is depending on us, you know? Um, so, but beyond that, um, you know, I think we have really good systems in place for managing it all. And Adam and I, luckily enough, when we've talked about this with you before, have a really amazing complimentary skillset. So the things that I'm good at are not his wheel wheelhouse and vice versa. And so although we're only two people, it's like the skillset that each of us have individually brings a lot of, it brings a lot of, I don't know, I guess like a lot of possibility to the table. And so we're able to accomplish a lot individually. And then when we put that together, it just really feeds off of each other and works really cohesively.

Starting point is 01:05:26 So we're really lucky that we just kind of happen to end up to be those kind of people that have those complementary skill sets. But other than that, I mean, it's just good old fashioned work. Like when it's work time, we just put it in, we put in the hours. And sometimes that does mean that we'll be spending 12 or 14 hours or 16 hours some days working because there's just stuff to get done and that's just the way it is. Sometimes that does mean that we'll be spending 12 or 14 hours or 16 hours some days working because there's just stuff to get done and that's just the way it is. But overall, we have learned to manage the systems well enough that we have a pretty

Starting point is 01:05:53 good flow. And we do have people that we outsource a lot of work to. So even though we don't have like full-time employees or anything like that, we do have a lot of people that we outsource things to, and that makes a huge difference. And you're going to outsource your first Be The Wellness Canada retreat to me when you find a place that isn't full. Exactly. Well, it's funny that you say that because, yeah, that is part of the growth model, so to speak, is that partnering up with other folks who want to create experiences. I mean, we have the know-how in terms of how to put events together and how to run them really smoothly and make sure that they're successful and they're amazing. But yeah, we are only two

Starting point is 01:06:33 people. So I mean, we can only run so many events. And so yeah, part of the growth model is to partner with people like yourself. And we are doing a retreat with Steph Gaudreau of Stupid Easy Paleo. And her and her husband Zee are going to run one of our hikes next year in Peru. So there is that model of like starting to bring other coaches in that have amazing skill sets and that we could, you know, partner and share that together. So, yeah, there is that part of it. in the process of hopefully, if it comes together, purchasing 25 acres in Joshua Tree to build out a real site, a real retreat center that we could have. Yeah. So there's lots of little things in the works, but for now it's like good old fashioned hard work for Adam and I. And we're

Starting point is 01:07:17 just kind of like taking one step after another to build this thing out. Okay. That's exciting. That's new news I hadn't heard, Vanessa. How long in that process are you? So I'd say we're about halfway through. We haven't actually broke ground. We haven't done any of that. We've just found the property. We have investors. We're going through the approval process of if we can do what we want to do in this particular site. So we're kind of still in the infancy, but it's looking really good. And I think that's why I'm comfortable saying something because like, it looks like it's possible. And even if it's not this property, that's still a long-term goal for us is to actually have a site where people can come. We can run, you know, retreats regularly,

Starting point is 01:07:58 or we can host other coaches and their events and the things that they're offering. So yeah, at some point it's just not going to be possible for us to run everything ourselves, but we want to create a space where we can have like a legitimate healing space on the planet. Like we are holding this space for people to come and vibrate at their highest level. That is so exciting. I'm going to come filled with crystals. Yeah. Let's charge them under the full moon together. It'll be awesome. Oh yeah. So exciting. Okay. All right. I wanted to talk a little bit more about your authentic self program and then the retreat sort of attached to it. Is the authentic self course, is that something that's sort of newer? That's more like just strictly your bag, right?

Starting point is 01:08:43 Versus you and Adam? Yeah. That's definitely my side of the house for sure. And, you know, again, another little rabbit hole. When I was living in Chico, I did a year-long internship in the Berkeley Psychic Institute method. So it was like a year-long focus on really looking at intuition and personal power and energy healing, chakras and all that yummy hippie stuff that I love. And so for me, that's always been something that's been really important to me. And that, you know, I've always been very physical, but I've always been very spiritual and very, have always really appreciated that side of my world. And it's always been something really

Starting point is 01:09:26 important to me. So Authentic Self was born out of that love and definitely was me putting sort of a stake in the ground saying, I want to help people find their most authentic, deepest, connected self. And so that program, I've actually been running it for, I want to say three years now. And it's a nine month program where we look at the past and how we can stop recreating the past in the future and really building up an arsenal of tools that we can learn to maintain our energy and stop stealing energy from other people and stop allowing people to steal our energy and really shoring up sort of the spiritual and emotional space that we take up in the world of that kind of work is so, so special. And it's so complimentary to the physical work because as you know, and as anyone who's coached anyone knows, if your mind isn't right about things, it doesn't matter how hard you

Starting point is 01:10:38 try to white knuckle or be disciplined or whatever about your food and your workouts and your sleep, if you don't love yourself, if you don't genuinely care for yourself, it's so hard to make those exterior things happen. So authentic self for me is a way to address that side of it and to help people, you know, live a more embodied and loving life. Is that program something that there's like start and end dates or is that ongoing? And what's what like how does it look like if I signed up for this authentic self program? How does it sort of like manifest in terms of connecting with you or the homework that I'm doing or, you know, how does it look? Yeah, totally. So in the past, I've offered it just one time a year,

Starting point is 01:11:25 and it would start in the beginning of the year and kind of run its course. And then we'd start again the next year. Last year, we had a really cool experience where we went to Rhythmia in Costa Rica and had a really beautiful plant medicine experience with ayahuasca. And I've actually done plant medicine throughout my life. So that's something that has been a big influence for me as a person. And I had this epiphany while I was there that I wanted to run a dedicated authentic self course for folks who wanted to do plant medicine with us at Rhythmia this coming year in December. So the next one coming up is actually dedicated to the folks who are going to do that additional plant medicine work. But there was a course that was offered without it in January, and that will be offered again next January.

Starting point is 01:12:11 So there's kind of two options for it this year. And then obviously, folks can also come to Rhythmia without doing the authentic self program, and that's an option as well. So it runs with or without the addition of plant medicine, basically, to answer your question. Okay. I don't want to perpetuate any stereotypes here, but with this program, do you find that it tends to be more women signing up for it? Because I asked that because it seems like this, you know, there's a lot of sub cultures and sub industries in the wellness sort of world. And it seems like a lot of this, there is like kind of a big subculture that's like, understanding your yourself and being

Starting point is 01:12:51 authentic and boundaries and, you know, confidence building and all of that stuff, as a part of wellness tends to be at least what I'm seeing, it's, it's, in some cases, it's a little bit gendered. I mean, you see like on it and Aubrey Marcus and those guys doing sort of like the dude side, and they do tend to market it like this is for dudes, like we need a special kind of approach for mass, like modern masculinity and what that means, etc. Is yours, do you find that women tend to gravitate more towards it or no? Yeah, 100%. They do. And the men who do actually do the program, they are actually some of my favorite and biggest transformations because it is, I think, so counterintuitive to a lot of the things that they naturally do. So when they do that work, it's actually so expansive and amazing.

Starting point is 01:13:39 But yeah, you're right. At the end of the day, women are more drawn to the hippie shit, right? They're kind of allowed to be more into it. Like, as I said, I almost sort of, like, I do respect the kind of the, that subset of, again, sort of like the Aubrey Marcus type environment where they're like, let's explore what it means to be a man and what it means to love and have emotions and connect with people and sort of be open to it. Of course, there's also, I mean, in some cases, it can be problematic. I don't know, we all have our own opinions of what's right or wrong or okay or not okay. But I don't know if like finding yourself and being authentic and being comfortable and loving yourself necessarily has to be a gendered thing. But I think maybe sometimes gravitate more towards like, this is for women, this is for men, that's fine.

Starting point is 01:14:30 But I do think that like men are definitely raised to, to think less about that and to think that that tends to be a sign of like weakness or a feminine trait to want to like feel good. I totally love yourself and connect with people in a loving way. And women are more encouraged to, to, to pursue that anyway. Yeah. And I actually think it does have something to do with the natural way we sort of think as female and male as well. I mean, I know for Adam and I, he's a little more analytical. So sometimes it's just hard for him to connect with the content of the more spiritual stuff. Like he's like, I kind of get what you're saying, but because of his analytical process or the way that he sort of looks at things methodologically,

Starting point is 01:15:13 however you say that, he has a methodology for things. I'm like, I don't know if that's a word, but it's harder for him to connect to more obtuse concepts. So I think that plays into it as well is that sometimes it's just hard for them to connect to the material. However, this is where I think the plant medicine is really awesome for men in particular, because I do think it opens up some of this pathway. And where women, I think, can be a little more fluid and they can sort of envision the concepts you're talking about, the plant medicine actually opens up the ability to really see these concepts. And it's kind of hard to explain if you haven't done plant medicine, like how that is possible, but it sort of takes

Starting point is 01:15:56 some of those filters away so that they're like, oh, actually they can almost widen out the way that they're looking at things a little bit more and see some of those concepts that might be a little hard to distinguish or hard to analyze if that's how your brain works. Well, one thing that I've heard over and over again from people with plant medicine experiences, it's like this idea of ego dissolution, which again, if we're talking about very general stereotypes, it tends to be when we're looking at connecting with other people or having compassion or empathy for either ourselves or other people. It's almost like with dudes, with women, it's almost like you have to build up that sort of ego to a certain extent. And with men, it's almost like you have to break it down a bit more because for whatever reason, whether it's partly instinctive, biological and partly how we raise people. It's like men are almost born just with like, I am great. I'm awesome. Yeah. I deserve it. I deserve whatever happens in life,

Starting point is 01:16:50 whereas women almost have to learn that, which I think is really interesting. And I wonder if that's almost why the plant medicine thing tends to be so revelatory for men in a way that women maybe connect with already sometimes without having to go that route. Yeah. And I think the beauty about plant medicine is that it's whatever you need, it's whatever is going to make the biggest impact for you. And it's one of the most incredible parts of it is it's so precise for who you are and what your needs are and where your blind spots are. And so I think it's one of the most magical things for me and why I'm so in love with it is that it's like your plant medicine is going to be different than my plant medicine. And Adam's experience is going to be different than everybody's in the room

Starting point is 01:17:34 because everyone has just a little bit different trawbers or blind spots again, or just things that they're not aware of that are keeping them away from being in full alignment with who they really are. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things we talked about last time that we chatted, which was really cool about the women kind of coming on these retreats and doing the courses and stuff is that it's just another element of sort of autonomy and independence and adventure is traveling and going and having adventures like this on their own. Like you, you definitely

Starting point is 01:18:11 encourage and welcome couples and people coming in with their friends and stuff like that. But I, you've said that you found time and again, that there are some women who are going on these retreats that are like, this is the first time I've done something like this by myself. And I feel like I have a space where I can do this and try things and like that I never really felt confident enough to do that before. And that's maybe something else that sometimes men don't even think about, like that it would be scary maybe to travel by yourself for a lot of reasons. Oh, totally. I mean, women, we're so much more vulnerable. I mean, and it's sad to say that, but we just physically are in the world. Like we

Starting point is 01:18:45 aren't as safe as men in the world. That is just a fact. I mean, it's one of the things that we have to think about as women when we're walking down a dark street or we're going somewhere new by ourselves or we're traveling to a foreign country. Am I safe here? Like that's just a real reality for most of us women. So yeah, for us, giving women especially a space to come on these retreats and just know they're totally taken care of, they can set all their fear and worry aside and they can just be completely present for the experience at hand is one of the coolest things. And we just actually, we just got back from New Zealand and we had a woman who came on her first retreat by herself. She came from Arkansas. She didn't

Starting point is 01:19:26 know anyone. She hadn't been in any of our programs before. She was like a complete newbie, so to speak. And she was like, yeah, I was a little nervous because obviously I'm coming by myself. I don't know anyone. She showed up and quite a few people had been on trips before, so they knew each other already. And she said, oh, I felt like people kind of knew each other. And she's like, but within a day or two, it was like I had 18 new friends. Like I literally had 18 new best friends. And I felt like I'm part of this group. I'm part of this community. And it's one of the things we really, really take a lot of pride in and really try to structure things in a way where people come and they are immediately part of it. They're part of the family. They're not an outsider coming in. They are part of what the experience is about and that they contribute to it just as much as anyone else in the group and just as much as we do. That's so cool. Okay. I don't want to keep you forever. I know you have stuff to do today. It's

Starting point is 01:20:21 Monday. I know, right? I have a big question that I sort of want to end off on. And I'm sorry to put you on the spot, but you're smart. So you'll be able to answer this. Just sort of like a big kind of closing question with all the work that you're doing, with all the experiences that you've had already in your life. First of all, are you the world's most interesting woman? I don't know. You've definitely done a lot. I don't know you've definitely

Starting point is 01:20:45 done a lot um I don't know there's some pretty interesting ones out there um but thank you sort of like evolution of creating these programs creating these courses from anything from like getting people to do pull-ups to um to understanding their own selves and their own inner selves and and becoming more confident and becoming more strong and becoming more compassionate and having better relationships and all of the stuff that you're helping and you're helping facilitate for people through the programs and the retreats. of this. Is there anything about the human condition in terms of how they learn, how they become introspective and become sort of happier people, like anything that you have noticed throughout the years of you being part of Be The Wellness? Is there anything that's sort of surprising or interesting? Or is there a common thread maybe that you've picked up about how people learn and be in the world? Like tell me something that I can kind of take with me about like becoming sort of a better

Starting point is 01:21:52 human being that you've picked up on through your work. I love that question. That's so cool. Well, you said the words human condition, and I actually want to go I want to use those words because I think the biggest thing is that many of us are trying to deny that we are in the human condition. We are trying to find our way around it, through it, over it. We are, whatever we can do to get around the fact that we are in the human experience, we will do it. And, you know, we see that with people who, you know, are unwilling to age or don't want to look death in the face or, you know, there's so many things that people do to avoid the mere fact that we are living in the human condition. And I think once you accept that you are, there's a sense of surrender and peace that floods into your space that actually gives you so much more power and understanding and diet or the perfect workout or the perfect this or that, the perfect outfit or man or woman or whatever. comes a lot of dichotomy and a lot of introspection and a lot of acceptance to just allowing yourself to be with that. And so I think the biggest thing that people can do is just be compassionate towards themselves. Just be compassionate towards the fact that if you have self-judgment or if you have judgment of others or you're

Starting point is 01:23:45 struggling with something or you've been trying to diet for 10 years but still haven't lost that 10 pounds, just having compassion for the fact that you are indeed in the human condition and this is what comes along with it can give you an inner sense of peace and an inner sense of perspective on it all that helps you just zoom out and say, okay, this is just life. It's going to be okay. Let's just zoom out. Let's take it as it comes. And let me just stop being so hard on myself. Let me stop being so hard on others. And let me just see if I could do this human condition the best I can today. And I think that if you do that, you'll find some pretty miraculous shifts in your heart and in your soul and

Starting point is 01:24:30 in the world around you. I knew you would crush that answer. It really resonated with me though. Cause the amount of gymnastics I've done to avoid coming to terms with being a human being in the world. I mean, we've all been there. We've all done. Everyone. Yeah. And that's comfortable in that too. Like, yeah, we're all doing those gymnastics all the time to try to avoid it. But if we maybe just maybe stop trying so hard and just like, as you've done literally and figuratively kind of ride the wave, you know,

Starting point is 01:25:00 like crazy life, just like ride the wave and have fun with it. Absolutely. And you know, like crazy life, just like ride the wave and have fun with it. Absolutely. And you know, I'm glad you said that have fun with it because at the end of the day, it is actually one of the things that we are most interested in cultivating in our community, in our events, in our own lives is fun. And if you underestimate the healing power of fun, then you're missing out on such an amazing, powerful force because joy, fun, laughter, it truly is the best medicine. It is truly the thing that will make you feel the happiest, the most loved, the most present in your space. And so I love to remind people like, okay, maybe you were sick.

Starting point is 01:25:42 Maybe you had to go paleo or you had to do this thing or you had an autoimmune disease or something happened in your life where you had to be strict for a while or all those things. But don't forget to heal. Don't forget that there should be another side of that. And at some point, there should be a now what. And that now what should hopefully include having amazing experiences and loving your life and having beautiful community and family and friends and food and just loving and loving the adventure of this human condition. And so yeah, I'm so glad you mentioned the word fun. We are like, we put the F you in fun all the way. Very seriously. Yeah, I like that. That's awesome. Well, I am so excited to have fun with you guys in September.

Starting point is 01:26:27 I'm so pumped for that. We'll have to make sure that we both of us post a lot about what's going on in that adventure so that people can see it and they can decide to man up and be a part of one themselves maybe in the future. But before I let you go, tell our listeners where they can go to find out more about what you guys are doing and the authentic self program that's coming up and all that good stuff. Awesome. So you can find everything at bethewellness.com and B is spelled like a honeybee. So it's B-E-E the wellness.com. You can find our Be The Wellness Instagram. And then personally, I'm Nesta Tunes, N-E-S-T-A-T-U-N-E-S

Starting point is 01:27:07 on Instagram. And yeah, you can find my music on Spotify and iTunes and YouTube and all those places under Nesta. And the authentic self programs on Be The Wellness, all that stuff's there, all the events and experiences and all that good stuff. And of course, if you have any questions, you can just reach out to me at info at bethewellness.com. And I'm always happy to hear from people. So excited. I'm going to spend all afternoon listening to your music and doing your booty workout. I love it. That's a good combo. And I just really quick, Ashley, before we get off, want to just tell you how proud I am of you and what a badass you are and how, what a sistership I feel with you.

Starting point is 01:27:49 And I just think the work you're doing and your ability to be vulnerable and open and create beautiful conversation and who you are and how you're expressing is just such an awesome delight to my heart and my soul. So it's right back at you. And I can't wait to see you in Montana. We're going to ride some horses and hike some mountains and just have an awesome time. I am so excited. Thank you so much for that. That makes my heart happy. And the feeling is mutual. I'm so glad that we met. I don't even remember how we did. It doesn't matter,

Starting point is 01:28:19 but I'm so glad that we did. And yeah, I'm just excited for more adventures together and more chats. And yeah, let's do it. Awesome. Let's do it. All right, babe. Well, virtual hugs and kisses. I love you. I'll see you soon. And thanks to everybody for tuning in today. All right. That's it for this week, everyone. Thanks for listening. I hope the episode lights a fire under your ass and you go out and crush some challenges this week, whether it's signing up for Shrug's One Ton Challenge, which I'm sure you're following along on our Instagram page, or maybe another challenge like finally signing up for a Spartan race or a CrossFit competition or a meditation practice or whatever crazy thing you're into. And speaking of people doing crazy things, next week's interview

Starting point is 01:29:01 is with ultra endurance racer Courtney DeWalter. She got her sort of mainstream fame when she won the Moab 240 in Utah recently, which required her to run 238 miles. And she did it in under 58 hours. So she basically ran for more than two days straight and ran 238 miles. Like, just get your head around that. She crushed the second place finisher, who was a man, by the way, by more than 10 hours. What? Okay, so I'm not even an endurance racer.

Starting point is 01:29:37 I've run a couple of marathons as a challenge, and they almost killed me, if I'm being real. But if you want to hear the muscle maven fangirl super hard, listen to my interview with this incredibly humble superhuman next week, because I'm asking Courtney about her races, her mindset, her training, her eating, all that fun stuff. And it's just so crazy to talk to somebody who is like the best in the world at something that is pretty much incomprehensible to the rest of us, like truly, like it's really hard to get your brain around the stuff that you can accomplish. So anyway, I had a lot of fun with that interview and I hope you join me next week to hear it. So that's it.

Starting point is 01:30:14 Have a great day.

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Barbell Shrugged - Finding Your Authentic Self Through Physical Movement – What We Can Learn From Competitive CrossFitter, Surf instructor, Firefighter, and Coach Vanessa Lambert — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #16

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