Barbell Shrugged - Fit Pregnancy with Functional Medicine Physician Dr. Gabrielle Lyon — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #11

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hey everyone, you're listening to Muscle Maven Radio and my guest today is Shrugged Collective's favorite functional medicine physician, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. You may remember her from a previous interview that we did. It was myself and the cool dudes at Barbell Shrugged back in, I believe we posted it in December. We did the interview at the Strong New York event and that's the first time Dr. G and I met, but we connected immediately. We're just absolutely kindred spirits in our mutual goals of being strong and fit, successful, badass women who are also probably a lot shorter in person than you'd imagine.

Starting point is 00:00:36 She's also obviously well known for her research and her work in functional medicine and having a very well-rounded protein and muscle centric approach to her, her medicine and her, um, recommendations for people. She works with a lot of really high performing, um, hard charging people. She works with athletes and CEOs and military operators and, you know, people like me too, because she's not only my friend, but also my doctor. And I'm so grateful to have her in my life and all of those capacities and, and people like me too, because she's not only my friend, but also my doctor. And I'm so grateful to have her in my life in all of those capacities and be able to get her to take the time out of her busy schedule to talk to me about her latest life project, which is growing a human being. Yes, Dr. Lyon is pregnant.

Starting point is 00:01:16 And as a very, very driven person who lives and breathes health and fitness and optimization, I had to sit her down and ask her how the whole pregnancy thing is going. So we talk about all of it, her lifestyle, her workouts, her diet, how all of that is changing and adjusting. We talk about her ideas for a birth plan and how she applies a growth mindset to everything in life, every challenge, not just pregnancy, how to do that and how to become adaptable when you're

Starting point is 00:01:45 somebody who, let's say, is very used to being in control and suddenly is thrust into a situation where you don't have control over everything. And that's applicable to all of us because we're all in situations like that sometimes. So we talk about all that. We talk about our work. We talk about protein because that's always an interesting topic for us. And you know, all that good stuff. So this one's great for women who are or may become pregnant, but anyone who follows Dr. Lyon already knows that she is an excellent resource for everyone. Even if we're talking about pregnancy specifically, we're also talking about how attitude drives success. We're talking about goal setting and approaching every aspect of your life in an educated and

Starting point is 00:02:25 thoughtful manner and that is applicable to all of us so that's my spiel please enjoy my chat with dr gabrielle lion and of course if you enjoy the episode please do share it with someone that you think can benefit that's what this is for that's what all of this is about is just sharing knowledge and uh and that's it post about it on social media tag us all at shrug collective tag me at the muscle maven tag dr g at dr gabrielle lion and that's it let's do it the air quality yes that's what i needed for yeah i need some like green stuff but i was just always concerned that i wouldn't be able to keep it alive but based on the conversation we're about to have today I feel like I need to at least start with keeping a plant alive if I want to maybe someday keep a human alive but it's not myself a plant

Starting point is 00:03:13 is a good place a good place to start I always disagreed with the um the idea that you like get a puppy first because I'm like they're they're very very fucking different yeah like first of all a baby will eventually grow up to be able to fully communicate with you with words. Um, you're not going to have to hopefully, um, you know, wipe their bums forever. They will grow to resent you, which a dog will not do these things that make it so much more complicated. Sit, lay down. I'm going to skip right past the dog. I love dogs. I'll play with other people's dogs but again it's like the travel situation i just feel like i couldn't keep a living plant or pet alive so and you get nine months to figure it out yeah that's true it's not all of a sudden right you get used to this idea

Starting point is 00:03:54 you've already gone through a series of morning sickness urination feet hurting all of these things so the trajectory and the end results, you're good. Okay. So you have the baby. It happens gradually enough. You have time to like, think about all of these things that are happening. So one of the reasons that I really wanted to talk to you about healthy pregnancy and just pregnancy in general is because obviously you are really influential in this world and people really respect what you have to say. You have established yourself as a legit person in this world that people trust and want to, because you're going to give it to us straight. Like what you found, it's research-based. We're sitting here in piles of like medical papers right now. I'm prepping. This is what I do on

Starting point is 00:04:39 my non-clinic days. Yeah. Yeah. It's intense. but people inherently just trust what you tell us because you don't talk a lot of bullshit. Like you're going to give it to a straight. And that's what I appreciate. And I always appreciate that with friends, with doctors, with whoever. So, and being a woman who may get pregnant, I'm going to keep it on it. I'm going to keep encouraging that you're the only person other than my partner who is like real into this idea. We're doing it. It's kind of funny. We're doing it. Let's get going. You, me and him are like working on this. Um, but anyway, so I really, and I knew that you would, you know, be obviously like forthcoming and kind of about your experience and how this is going. So you've got like the personal experience now, and also this, you know, high level medical

Starting point is 00:05:22 background that you can kind of mix together to tell me all the exciting things about being pregnant. I will tell you, I would have never expected my experience to be the way that it is. And what is so interesting about pregnancy is it's the one condition or experience that is so variable for everyone. Let me give you an example.

Starting point is 00:05:43 When an individual gets diabetes, we know that there is a certain expectation of the things that possibly happen, whether they get neuropathy or elevated glucose or frequent urination. There are things that we know are going to happen. Pregnancy, the variability from individual to individual is so intense.

Starting point is 00:06:02 Yeah, and you can't, and everyone says like, be as fit as you can, like eat well, like all of these things that are going to prep you for having a, I'm using air quotes here for our listeners, easier pregnancy. Yeah. I mean, these things don't, don't, you know, they're not indicators that you're going to have an easy pregnancy necessarily. How much do you, do you, are you aware of how much of your pregnancy experience is like hereditary like if your mother had a pregnancy sort of this way how much of that I have asked all these questions yeah I have an amazing sister with two beautiful children yeah

Starting point is 00:06:39 and she's a boy and a girl never had morning sickness very easy pregnancies my mother the same thing yeah okay because that was always the line that my mother gave me she said I have four kids I gave birth with no um right no drugs I felt great when I was pregnant I look great when I was pregnant I'm like first of all you were 21 when you had your first one I'm already an old lady and there's a lot to say for that like when you're having your kids in your early 20s versus. I don't know if that's true. I mean. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:07:10 Well, okay. I don't know. I mean, I feel like having your first. And the one thing that I've heard from all of my friends who I grill about their pregnancies is generally speaking, the second one's easier than the first one. Right? I'll buy it. So if I'm only, because I'm really just getting my head around, maybe I'll push out one. Maybe I'll have one. I come from a very big family and I'm like, not about having a ton of little humans running around. I saw what my mom went through. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:07:34 I'm not into it. Okay. I might be able to deal with one. Cause then it's just like me versus the kid in terms of sanity. That's how I'm approaching it already. Very healthy. Um, but yeah, so I'm having my first one I'm gonna be in my mid-30s like that is so I guess this is the question I can ask you is there any evidence that that is I'm setting myself up for a tougher road like I'm having one kid I'm having them older um it used to be you know when you're 35 past that like all kinds of shit right goes bad I think you bring up a really good point because people look at biological age yeah or they look at i'm sorry chronological age as opposed to

Starting point is 00:08:11 biological age right whereas a average 35 year old may be overweight not training maybe they smoked maybe they're drinking a lot you're looking at that person comparing it to someone who has eaten well, trained, taken really particular care of their body. You're looking at two totally different people. And you can see that with aging in general. While risks do increase based on egg age, I think that we can never make a blanket statement. Okay. All right, good.

Starting point is 00:08:48 That makes me feel better. Did you always know that you wanted to have kids or a kid? Did not decide until November of 2018. Really? So you were like me, like just living on the fence? No, I was absolutely not. I am not having children. I am career focused and I'll be a great aunt

Starting point is 00:09:08 and did you was it because you were buying into the uh I think that's something that a lot of us type a um ambitious women are told that you kind of can't pull off both you can't be like this hard charging um busy woman who's focused on her career and also be a good mom. Like, is that something you would internalized or you, you just kind of weren't. I've been like you, I travel all over. I've always been so independent. It was never a dream or a desire of mine. Yeah. Then I would say I started thinking about it two years ago okay started decided for one year I was thinking okay I'm really gonna have a baby and then I'm thinking oh gosh I don't know then November of 2018 I said Shane I'm ready pregnant what happened pregnant within that month what happened did

Starting point is 00:10:01 you have a weird dream did you like see a super cute baby? What happened? I had a life-changing moment. And it was, I was at one of the entrepreneurial groups that I am part of, JJ Virgin's group. And we were at this line. It was really interesting. It's kind of hard to explain, but it was a woman that does work with prison inmates. And it was to show the humanity. And there was this, you step up with it. It's a room full of people and you know them, right?

Starting point is 00:10:28 So it's my group. And they'll ask a question and they'll say, if you've ever lost someone, step forward. Right? And you go through all these questions. And one of the questions was about children. And it was at that moment that I realized if I didn't make this decision and really take a moment that by not making the decision that was going to be my life yeah it was at that moment I walked outside I called Shane I said honey we're getting pregnant he was like all right

Starting point is 00:10:59 he said finally so he because he was always on board. He was always excited. Of course, of course. Yeah. But it was really a moment. It was a very clear moment. And I happened to be fortunate that within that same month, we tried. That was it, pregnant. And there wasn't anything because obviously you live a very healthy life despite the fact that you're a super busy person and the stresses of that can be a detriment to your health. But in general, we're talking about like workout wise, food wise,

Starting point is 00:11:28 the way you take care of yourself, you're, you know, you're very on top of these things. So was there anything that you physically changed when you were like, yep, baby, it's happening. Did you do anything differently? I became much more introspective and I realized that if I was and this is more esoteric but I was so in a masculine space because that is how I operate and that's how I feel good someone would meet me and say wow well she's only five one yeah that's the first thing they would say is she may be really kind and caring, but I'm not necessarily feminine. Or traditionally, what people would traditionally consider a maternal kind of figure. Correct. And it was in that experience where I thought, wow, I really need to start thinking about the less masculine side of myself and the more feminine.

Starting point is 00:12:28 Interesting. So you had to start to get in touch with your feminine side. And it was really weird. Yeah. But you, do you like it now? That's amazing. But see now I'm still the same. I'm still have a, I would say more of a masculine way about me. Energy. Energy. energy yeah but with that creating a human definitely slowed down uh it's been a very challenging pregnancy up until this point and i'm in my well into my second trimester yeah i want to talk about all of these challenges but i like that you i like a little bit of this esoteric kind of conversation because this is something obviously as you're saying it i I'm relating to it too, because I never

Starting point is 00:13:08 considered myself, I wouldn't say like, I grew up, I was a tomboy or I always like preferred hanging out with dudes or any of that stuff. I don't think that at all, but I get that same kind of response to a lot of people. You know, you're a little bit. Which I think was one of the reasons that we met each other and we got along within a second. Immediately. We both, I mean, we both have so many similar interests and our partners are really similar in the world in which we are coming from. And the dynamic in the way in which we operate is very similar.

Starting point is 00:13:35 Yeah. But do you also find that sometimes that can cause problems? Like the reason why people are like, well, you can't have a partner that's too much like you because then you can kind of like have you ever dealt with any of that I guess you have because I mean you hang out with all alpha females too like yeah I feel like that must be like a you're you think you're an alpha female but you're actually just like a insecure jerk if you can't get along with other like strong women like that's on you that's not really right and I would say the women in my life help me through this they're they're right there we're we're a team yeah it's not anything other than that we all help each other become better

Starting point is 00:14:13 individuals I do think it's interesting though to think of a woman having to consciously sort of tap into her feminine side because again I don't think there's anything not feminine about you can have a strong masculine energy and it doesn't make you any less feminine and I've always felt that same way about myself I'm like just because I tend to like I want to do like sports that are for dudes or I like don't like watching like chick movies like none of that makes me less of a girl like I still like to put on makeup and be girly like there's a huge range and I don't think I think that our tendency to like to put on makeup and be girly. There's a huge range. And I don't think, I think that our tendency to want to put people and even ourselves into boxes is problematic anyway, because let's just be who we are and kind of accept what that is. But what,

Starting point is 00:14:54 what were some of the ways that you were like, okay, I'm, I'm going to get pregnant. I am pregnant. I'm growing a life now. This is the most womanly thing that I can do really when you get down to it. what are some ways besides you mentioned like I'm trying to slow down a little bit I'm trying to you know focus more on this than getting all my hard workouts in or like running around like a crazy person like I always do what are some other ways that you really kind of consciously were like I'm gonna be more into my body and introspective and really think about what this process means. I went from training six days a week to pretty, I mean, it was pretty high intensity training to every other day training max, really slowed it down, really started to listen to my body

Starting point is 00:15:38 because it was no longer just about me or hitting a PR or a row time. It was being softer, not training as hard, more focused on movement for the first time in my life. I wasn't focused on body composition or performance for the first time ever. That's pretty big deal. Yeah. What's the process like? I have so many questions. I'm going to be jumping all over the place, but you're talking about the body composition thing. Even people who don't have like bodybuilding backgrounds and things like that, where your body composition actually really matters to what you're doing. Most of us still always are thinking about body composition because we just want to look good. Right? So how, how do you deal with being a type A chick who usually has abs to the inevitability? I send you the before

Starting point is 00:16:23 and after picture. I love it. I love it. I'm likeability before and after I love it I love it I'm like that before and after picture kind of looks like me right now just because I've been eating too much but anyway but yeah like really funny you know it's fine to say like oh well I just I I'm growing up and so I'm not going to be vain for the nine months it takes me to like grow a baby like that's fine but like how do you really go you really you really reprioritize. Yeah. I truly don't feel bad. And I'm 25 pounds heavier. I started pretty lean and underweight. Yeah. I've gained 25 pounds. I swear to God within the first trimester, I must've gained 15. Mostly in the boobs. I was like, holy shit. Your perspective changes. You're so grateful that you're actually making a life. Yeah. There are no guarantees that everything works out well, right?

Starting point is 00:17:07 Also, I would have to say it definitely brings up fears I never had before. Like what? I mean, I have no control. I can plan for data analysis and research and speaking, and I can plan for being the best physician and taking care of people. This little fucking human I have no control over yeah how you're gonna feel tomorrow like how she's gonna do yeah I want her to be strong I mean um I'm hoping we've got some pretty good genetics I screen chained before of course

Starting point is 00:17:39 you did wait what were some things you were screening for i ran his opus 23 but so i got his ancestry is 23 and me put it through yeah a program called opus 23 looked at his genes determined he was okay so if you've done the 23 and me you can do you can take that information if you're a physician or a health care provider you can okay all right i'm gonna send you some information okay check your work you're that's good acceptable that makes sense yeah yeah we totally joke about that but you have no control over how the baby's growing literally it's a heartbeat okay and it's something that is so meaningful yet you have to completely surrender yeah and i would say it's the first time in my life where there has to be surrender. Yeah. Surrendering control is not something

Starting point is 00:18:25 that comes naturally to you. No. And I don't think for anybody. In fact, I don't, I think it's very few individuals that say, okay, this baby's going to be how it's going to be. And I'm going to trust in the process. Emily Kuyberg and I talk about that a lot. And same with Melissa Paris, who you met, uh, who I trained with and they listening to their perspective, they were able to surrender a lot and just allow. Yeah. That's so intense. It's very interesting when you, it's every ultrasound every month is the baby. Okay. You just, you don't, you don't know. And I'm sure every pregnant woman goes through it. Almost everyone. Yeah. So tell me about how your physical training has changed. And first first of all can we talk about you

Starting point is 00:19:05 said you're talking about rowing times I'm like only a very type a five foot one woman is volunteering for rowing because I hate rowing I'm good at rowing and I hate it I love the skier for some reason but rowing I'm like I would rather literally do like burpees and wall balls the time that you're rowing because it makes me angry that I can have better form than somebody who's six foot two and they're gonna have a better time than me because those stupid long legs no no no fucking rowing dude anyway all right love it so yeah tell me like what kind of like the level of kind of workouts that you did before and then how the nature of those things have changed since you become pregnant? I mean, before I had a really well laid out program in terms of what I was doing for endurance, then high intensity, then, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:50 we talked about road time skier. And where was that programming coming from? Either Kara Killian, who are Kara Lazowskis, you know, she was just on Titan games. She's really helped me for many years do that. And then I started training with Melissa Paris who happens to specialize in pregnancy which I started working with her right before I got pregnant okay which is interesting so that was almost but that was kind of a proactive thing like you knew that she focused that was her sort of area of expertise totally didn't connect the dots I was thinking it was going to take me a really long time to get pregnant oh all right I mean I didn't think I was gonna be pregnant within a month sure but you were still kind of like looking ahead like

Starting point is 00:20:24 this chick knows what she's talking about. Yeah, for sure. Training pregnant women. You know, knowing swats and knowing who to send me to, to assess the pelvic floor. So every time I sneeze, I don't pee on myself. That's something you all pregnant women get to look forward to if you have a under or overactive pelvic floor.

Starting point is 00:20:43 Yeah. Back to the question, how did my training change? I used to do two a days. Really? Kara, don't listen to that. Even when you weren't training for something specifically, you were working out twice a day? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:55 I mean, I wasn't really supposed to be doing that extra cardio. I mean, there's a pool in the building, right? You're like, it's right here. I'm just going to do it. What are you going to do? I've got some kettlebells here. Look, I've got some Indian clubs. That look that's in my gloves that's fine right okay and then you know the first when you get pregnant you legitimately think you are ill within the first six weeks like motherfucker i have the flu

Starting point is 00:21:19 i have the flu i cannot train really slows you down yeah and you know of course you haven't necessarily tested positive yet that is the beginning of how your training will slow down yeah continue to use kettlebells i am still working with a lot of injuries that i can't quite rehab they're really not rehabable i do need significant regenerative medicine you know stem cell PRP for my shoulder. But now it is more, it's almost all kettlebell work, squats, pressing, lunges, carries. Okay. And this is like a sort of stability, core strength kind of cardiovascular. Yeah. Core and prepping for birth. a lot of squatting knowing when to relax your pelvic floor and obviously you know I totally have coaching with this otherwise I would have no idea completely out of yeah my element I just the other week as you said I got to meet Melissa well I'd

Starting point is 00:22:20 met Melissa actually in person before because she came to the party, but I got to hang out with her at Neo U where she's doing her courses and her classes and stuff. And we had a chat and that's going to be on the podcast too, because I'm putting like a little kind of a series together. Like, you know, women's reproductive health and fit pregnancy and, you know, postnatal stuff. And because I think it's important. And I think it's something that a lot of these listeners, like some of you are women, I hope, like some of you are at the age where you may want to, or already are, or, you know, going to become pregnant. And if they're not women, the partner should know what the, the woman goes through. Absolutely. It is so much different than the guy could imagine. Absolutely. Yeah. The more information that both of you can

Starting point is 00:23:03 have access to and discuss together, the better for sure. Um, do you, and she talked about this, the pelvic floor situation, cause I was asking her about the, um, the ab separation thing, which is like terrifying to me. So do you know, and maybe this is a TMI question, but do you know if you have an over or under active pelvic floor? I'm about to find out at 3 PM.m today okay yeah that's your your appointment yeah i mean i'm just gonna i'm gonna bet you five dollars that it's over i agree totally agree i think my problem too because she's like yeah like if you're always just kind of like flexing your muscles and like tight like you know all the time like you know whatever you're probably overactive like that's probably your issue but i didn't realize that that was something

Starting point is 00:23:40 that could be a problem too because i'm like well shouldn't you just do your kegels you've got your strong muscles down there yeah apparently there's a lot more to it way more and in fact I'm not I don't know how looking forward to I am to this appointment because but because like what kind of I mean this is I guess what you're going to learn but if you have underactive you're working on like establishing that mind muscle connection and like knowing what a kegel is and like figuring out what's going on down there. I'm sure. I don't know what she's going to do. If you're overactive, how do you bring that back? No idea. I'm sure there's trigger points. Dude. Weird. I know. That's going to be like an upgraded OB appointment. All right. Um, so tell me besides the feeling like

Starting point is 00:24:18 you had the flu for the entire first trimester. This is a big deal. Yeah. Okay. So how did the nutrition change? I was largely carnivore, not by, it's just how I felt better. You know, I don't necessarily feel that everyone should be eating a largely carnivore diet. I tend to do really, really well. And then I was able to maintain my health, stay really lean. And I felt great when I got pregnant, meat and beef would make me vomit. Still to this day, we're talking maybe I can sneak it in. In fact, the way that I can get protein is if it's a gluten-free chicken tender. And you're like halfway through your second trimester now?

Starting point is 00:25:00 I'm midway through 18 weeks. So 18 and a half weeks. Okay. All right. Once I hit 20, I'll be halfway there. And you still are having issues with protein. Oh yeah. Still nauseous, still having issues. So what are you doing to get your protein? It's rough. I'll have maybe an egg. I'll go through phases. So if you, if I eat this something for three days, I'm done. I can't. Yeah. I just had some cheese. I haven't had cheese. I've been eating cheese in 20 years, gluten 20 years. You're like, you gotta do it. You gotta. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:32 What about you? So you, you can do some dairy, like some yogurt and stuff. Just started that. Yeah. Probably don't feel great. Definitely have, you know, they say one third of women, if they have an autoimmune issue, we'll go down. One third of women will get worse, and one third will stay the same. I did not have autoimmune issues. I definitely have had an increase in autoimmune symptoms. Getting a lot of joint pain, not just in my feet, but joint pain, hair loss, waiting to see about my thyroid antibodies coming back, things that I would have never expected. My inflammatory markers, some of them are up.

Starting point is 00:26:11 Right. And part of this is possibly, I don't know, is that I haven't eaten gluten. I mean, obviously I cut it back out, but there are times where if you, we've all been nauseous and sick where we get that watery mouth to do that for four months is a long time holy shit yeah especially when you have increased caloric needs because you are creating a human being like you have to eat something you can't you can't be like one of these cool like hashtag biohackers who's like oh i can't i don't feel like eating anything i just won't for five days like you can't really get away with that negative

Starting point is 00:26:43 houston doesn't happen yeah so are you eating do you think that you're eating still less in general than you would normally when you're like training properly and you can eat your protein and or are you kind of maintaining I'm probably more it's so hard to tell my carb has increased triple I mean it's more like macronutrient ratios are just way different. I mean, it's almost 90% carbohydrates. What about fat? Is fat like the idea of eating a half an avocado with some salt and pepper on it? I can get some of it down.

Starting point is 00:27:15 For the most, some of it. Not the whole thing. Half an avocado. So this morning I had some mozzarella cheese, organic mozzarella cheese, and papaya and that orange yeah okay and just the yogurt right so if i don't eat every hour i'm pretty sick right so you're just eating constantly whatever you can and you don't even end up not even like it's not even enjoyable no because you don't necessarily like the foods that you're eating yeah you just kind of but you need to

Starting point is 00:27:41 and so this then is a a real exercise in really intuitive eating because more than probably ever before, your body is giving you very strong signals about what it does and doesn't want at this point. Absolutely. And you're just trying to do the best you can with the information you're being given. It'll be interesting to see if you have massive food aversions

Starting point is 00:28:01 and smells when you get pregnant. Yeah, How hilarious that like, cause I'm similar to you. Like I will eat probably like mostly meat. So like that's just the diet. Yeah. A hundred percent. If I have to become like a pseudo vegetarian during pregnancy, it will like all, everyone in my family will love that. They will just like laugh their asses off at it. But I mean, but that's common. the it is and the reason they believe that that happens is the food aversions they believe happen because it helps protect the growing fetus from toxins i have you're eating bad meat or something yeah true and also strong vegetables i am trying to

Starting point is 00:28:38 think the last time i had a vegetable it's really hard for me i mean i maybe have some peppers but vegetables i i mean recently I've been able to add them back in, but otherwise they make me really sick. Yeah. Cause it's basically safety over everything at this point. So if you're eating something that has some kind of strong phytonutrients, if you're eating meat, that's a little off, like these are a big deal biologically for the safety. It's amazing. All right. So, um so um so trying to do i would say initially do the best you can and i would have never said that i would say get yourself together suck it off and eat the protein that you need exactly yeah i've completely changed my tune yeah it's not possible

Starting point is 00:29:18 it is literally not possible it will make you 10x sick so do the best you can and then begin to experiment try to add it in you'll know immediately yeah and what are you doing um you said you've got like you've got a meeting today pelvic health what what other stuff like you have a doctor that you're seeing regularly questionably i mean right now tell me about that it's been really hard to find an OB that I like. Yeah, that's on your level. I would imagine it would be kind of difficult. The last OB, I really do try to pick an individual based on experience. This OB that I picked, he's been in practice 30 years.

Starting point is 00:29:57 I appreciate that. If you've got really the OB is there to, they're surgeons. But when I walked in his office and he told me I shouldn't be exercising and I was wasting my money on supplements and it was really hard to understand him I just felt that this is it wasn't a good fit no so I'm still looking okay so you're still in the process all right but you're doing there's like um know, certain benchmarks that you have to hit. You have to go in and get everything checked. Right.

Starting point is 00:30:27 So Monday I'll do an ultrasound, which will be an anatomy ultrasound. Okay. Make sure everything is okay. Good. Yeah. Okay. Again, no guarantees. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:30:37 So here's another thing. So with this kind of uncertainty and you being a type A person, everybody that I've talked to has said that most of the time motherhood chills people like us out not a chance there's no way because people are telling me they're like you know you're somebody who's always just kind of like no it's gonna cheer you no no zero here's what it does makes your ass tired and you feel sick so you better be sleeping but as far as but it's not chills you out no maybe when the baby comes out feel sick. So you better be sleeping. But as far as... But it's not chilling you out. Chills you out?

Starting point is 00:31:06 No. Maybe when the baby comes out it will, though. Because you'll be like, oh, look at this baby. I no longer care. No. No. I shocked at that. I mean, listen, I could be wrong, but...

Starting point is 00:31:15 We'll see. I think that the priority will shift, but the capacity to do... I mean, I love my... I don't even consider it a job. I love my career. I love the people I take care of. I truly get to help the leaders of communities and, and movements be the best version of themselves. I cannot imagine ever not doing that for people. But you're now thinking about how it's going to have to, there's going to have to be some compromises made. Well, Shane is going to be on daddy duty.

Starting point is 00:31:53 Okay. And diaper duty. You hear that, honey? So yeah. So what's going to happen with him? Cause he is somebody who travels a lot for work. So he, so he's's been an active so he's an active duty seal he's been in for 10 years he's getting out in may okay and three weeks after the baby is scheduled to be born he is going to medical school yeah you guys don't uh you guys aren't ambitious at all it's like just chill for a bit guys hang out right no and he is but it But he's going to school here? He did get accepted in New York school, Rutgers. We would also love an acceptance. I don't know when this is coming out. We're on the wait list at San Diego.

Starting point is 00:32:33 Anyone listening? So wait, you're going to go to the West Coast? I will always have an office here. How can I... I could never leave my people. Okay, that just like immediately made me sad. I mean, I guess I need to spend more time on the West Coast, but don't move there forever. No, no. I mean, if I have a whole busy practice here. I would never,

Starting point is 00:32:47 I would never deserve my people. But are you thinking ahead? Like I'm going to take three months where it's just baby bonding time. And then I'm going to go back part time. Like, are you starting to, I have, I only have, I have three days a week of clinic now. I am my own entrepreneur, my own business. I'm a one-woman practice. I have an associate who I work with who's amazing, Peter Roth, and it's us. So we pick the hours and we pick the patients. It's a good position to be in.

Starting point is 00:33:17 Yeah, and that's how that works. And are you open to the idea of when the baby comes and you have this three full days that are jam-packed with clients and you're like maybe maybe I need to do two days for a little while or maybe these days for sure shorter like you can get your head around that idea okay do you have it sounds corny coming out of my mouth because again so much this conversation is like I don't have a kid and up until like maybe six months ago I didn't want I'm had the same kind of plan as you do you have a birth plan I love that you asked me that I have really been thinking about it I would say it will be at a hospital in case that there is anything that goes wrong okay Shane said that if I don't utilize drugs I'll probably never speak to him again

Starting point is 00:34:01 um we'll see how that goes well sometimes that's out of your control too, right? Sometimes you don't get the drugs whether you want them or not. Yeah, this is pretty much the birth plan so far. That's about it. As far as I'd love to get a doula. Hospital, drugs. Right. I'd love to get a doula.

Starting point is 00:34:14 We don't know where we're going to be yet. Right. It makes it really challenging. So we still won't know for another two months or so. Right. Okay. But you have a plan to have a general birth plan. Like you're not, you're not like one of these, like completely like, we're going to just see what happens. Like you have

Starting point is 00:34:30 a general idea. I'd love to be able to do it. Not on my back. Yeah. That is very unnatural. I'd love to be able to do a squatting position to have a woman land our back and give birth is absolutely doesn't make no sense to me. Okay. Can we please take a couple minutes to talk about this? This is one area of the birth process that gets me militant. And this is how little, I mean, I don't know what it's like to give birth, but holy shit. I've watched a few documentaries about women giving birth and that's probably a real bad idea. It's a bad idea. No one should ever do it ever, ever. Um, but like coming from the ancestral health kind of community that I come from too, I'm like, why the fuck would you lie down?

Starting point is 00:35:11 And when people say too that like, you know, pushing, it's like the act of pushing is sort of like you're going to the bathroom, right? Do you lie down to go to the bathroom? Does that make sense? Does that make a lot of sense? But, and like the idea that it's, it's basically a process that the medical establishment has created to make it easier for the doctor than it is for you. Not going to happen.

Starting point is 00:35:31 I say that. Not on my watch, my friend. It's not going to happen. And like, it's less, there's less risk of tearing. It's, I mean, they, there's a reason why they tell you to walk around until the last possible minute. Cause this gravity is like moving the baby down for you. Totally agree.

Starting point is 00:35:46 Why is that something that is still so common? Like get people on. And I've talked to friends too who are like, I ended up on my side. I ended up on all fours. I was kind of hugging something. Some people are standing right up. And these aren't like hippies who are doing it in their bedrooms. These are people in hospitals who want all of the medical care that is available to them.

Starting point is 00:36:03 But they want to give birth in a way that is actually in some respects natural couldn't agree couldn't agree so into it i'm so glad you told me that's literally again my only part of the birth plan that i'm already thinking of right i do not want to unless of course for whatever reason that's what feels right to you at the time no no just to be put on your back i'm not doing that and besides no and like people holding your legs back while you're trying to like do this completely unnatural movement? Chances of that? Zero.

Starting point is 00:36:29 Yeah. Good. Okay. So is that, but is that a conversation that you actually have to have with your doctor? Like you have to be like, hey, bro, like not lying on my back. So prep yourself for that. Get ready. Get ready for whatever position I end up in because it's not going to be on my back.

Starting point is 00:36:44 And if you think about it, gravity pulls the baby down. That's how we were designed to give birth. Yeah. A lot of the traditional cultures give birth in a squatting position. Yeah. I mean, there is the, you know, I think some women do it through, uh, they do like water births. That won't be happening, but it's probably a great idea. Yeah. Um, yeah. So that, that part I know. And then what's, what's the conversation about the drug situation here? Like, so i was thinking no i'm not gonna do it shane is like you absolutely need to do it otherwise you're gonna kill me i'll have to decide no come on yeah i mean and i guess there's conversations there's always like there's pros and cons to everything too because i have had friends who have had epidurals for because they asked for them or it was required and had a much more

Starting point is 00:37:25 difficult recovery period because they had complications from the epidural, which is a, yeah, which is actually a very, um, significant, um, I had no idea. I need to do, I need to do a little more. Yes. Because I mean, you know what an epidural is. It's a pretty intense, um, anesthetic and people have had like, um, yeah but very very bad like my friend was hospitalized for three days after giving birth increased intracranial pressure really bad and she actually says that she has never i'm like i'm not throwing her under the bus i'm not gonna say her name but she she has said she's never actually like a hundred percent fully recovered from that like she still has like lingering sort of like neck pain and how long a couple years she is

Starting point is 00:38:06 yeah so an epidural is a big deal and the same way like a c-section like i'm thinking like hey if you can like completely numb me and just yank that baby out so i don't have to push it out that sounds good but pretty much everybody i've spoken to who you know of course you're gonna be grateful for whatever way you can have a baby okay it's healthy but it's it's a lot more recovery because it's surgery right so i mean that's something you want to maybe i guess try to avoid and that's another thing that i think doctors sometimes yeah it's interesting encourage you towards in brazil right in brazil they encourage c-sections yeah well i mean even here too like for people who are busy or rich and they're like we'll just we'll just set this up for you so So you know what day you're going to go in. And you just have the surgery.

Starting point is 00:38:45 And then a baby comes out. Yeah. I cannot imagine that. No. It's scary. Okay. So, but the drug situation. I have to really think about that.

Starting point is 00:38:53 I mean, I feel like that's something that sort of almost has to be a game day decision for you. Right? Because some, you don't know. Like, you don't know how you're going to manage it or how it's going to go for you. But I think in terms of. A lot of the medication slows down the labor too right like that's another thing I'm not interested in that yeah possibly thinking about pain having experienced it really thinking about kind of as if it was a sporting event really educating myself will help me make that decision

Starting point is 00:39:23 yeah it's like the athlete approach. Like if you have an event, like you're going to sprint at the Olympics, you're like visualizing it in your head and like thinking about the ordeal that you're going to be going through. Women have been doing it without pain medicine since the beginning of time.

Starting point is 00:39:38 Yeah. Doesn't mean that we should, but when you think about what has been done and there is no free lunch, I mean, as a physician, I see that there's, you can't do something without paying the price. Yeah. Yeah. It's basically what kind of price do you want to pay? Do you want to have more pain? Do you want to have a longer recovery?

Starting point is 00:40:01 Do you want to have a longer labor? And like you said, sometimes this stuff is going to be out of your control. You might have a plan and it's not how it's going to go. So Shane's going to be in the room with you though. Yeah. Anybody else? Doula, if you have a doula. So a doula, and let's be clear about this too, because a lot of people, it's a little bit unclear. There's a difference between a midwife and a doula. A doula is more of a support system, right? And a midwife is someone who can actually deliver the baby for you. that yeah probably it'd probably be great to get both i think that they massage and turn the baby again just like you i had no concept of birth yeah really never really really

Starting point is 00:40:36 thought about the birthing process up until probably a month ago yeah when you're like oh this is actually coming up yeah i was thinking, I was laying in bed thinking about that last night, thinking, wow, I really need to get myself together and really begin to read. I mean, Emily, you know, Emily Kyber, a really good friend of mine. And she's also expecting, by the way, one month later than me or one month earlier. Oh, wow. She's giving me these amazing books that I need to read. Okay.

Starting point is 00:41:03 This is good. And Melissa Paris actually on Instagram the other day and I screenshotted it, which is how you know that I'm actually getting serious about this because her stories. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I'm thinking I did too.

Starting point is 00:41:12 I screenshotted the same thing. Great minds. Yeah. Get you knocked up. And I've read a couple of those books already because I've interviewed some of those people for, um, another podcast that I've done.

Starting point is 00:41:21 So, um, yeah. So what are some of these books? So they, so birthing within, and what are some of these books so they have so birthing within and what are some of the like again because so that talks about the way in which the birthing uh well I mean I haven't really gotten to the whole yeah you're like I haven't read it yet I just have an idea Emily I promise I'm reading it she gave me some great books so there's the trident canine warriors and right next to that book is the... Mike Verlin would really appreciate that book.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Yeah, I've got to take a picture of this bookshelf. Right next to, you see David Goggins' books, Willpower Doesn't Work. Then you've got Bountiful, Beautiful. Discipline Equals Freedom, obviously, is up there. Steven Pinker. And then The Wonder Weeks. So you have Wonder Weeks. The Way of the Seal.

Starting point is 00:42:01 This looks a lot like my bookshelf. But usually it's way more organized by color. But that just... Of course, yeah. It's just Way of the Seal. This looks a lot like my bookshelf. But usually it's way more organized by color, but that just has gone out the window. Tribe of Mentors is up there. The Wonder Weeks, Bountiful, Blissful, Beautiful, Blissful, Something. There's a baby there.

Starting point is 00:42:17 Some of these books are about babies. It's fine. No, no, really. I've been getting some good ones. And then the... But here's a question. What are the things that you want to educate yourself about? No, really, I've been getting some good ones. And then the birthing from within. What are the things that you want to educate yourself about? And the reason I ask this question is because if I go down a Google rabbit hole because I'm feeling it and I'm like, what are some things that I want to know to feel like I'm prepared about the idea of becoming pregnant, being pregnant?

Starting point is 00:42:39 And most of the stuff until you do a deep dive that comes up is stuff that again, we're already pretty on top of this shit. It's like, Hey, you should have some kind of like nice physical practice that your body's strong. You should eat real foods whenever you can. You should not be smoking. You should try to sleep. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, all right, well, if this is the case, then I guess I'm going to be a pro at this shit. Like I already know that stuff. So look, what are the things you're trying to, that's, I love that question.

Starting point is 00:43:04 The truth is I have, I don't google a lot of shit and i'm not you're better off for that stuff i do want to know why the fuck my feet hurt all the time and my joints hurt i want to know why i'm peeing every five minutes i'm interested in knowing why my dreams are crazy oh your dreams are crazy oh my god i had never had nightmares since i got pregnant do you know why have you figured that out yet? No, you need to crack one of these books. Do you think it has something to do with like, I don't know, melatonin production or something? Probably something like that. Interesting. I'm interested. And then I, and then I surround myself with the best people.

Starting point is 00:43:38 So I definitely want to remain fit, be active. I don't want to get gestational diabetes. So I know that I need to be moving my muscle. I'm very interested in the metabolic changes that happen just because of my education, just my history, my background of, of doing metabolism and learning nutritional sciences. I do want to know the markers that the baby's hitting. So I know right now the baby can hear me. So I'm trying to swear less. Okay. I should know that. baby's hitting. So I know right now the baby can hear me. So I'm trying to swear less. Okay. I should know that. Right. Less F-bombs in the house. Okay. So, I mean, I probably can't make sense of anything, but just really thinking about what is happening with the baby. I could do a lot of, a much better job reading about it. Tell me, cause we talked about this a little bit before we turned on the recording. Tell me about your feet problem right now.

Starting point is 00:44:30 Cause this is like special. I have, yes, I have bursitis. So the pads and the feet are all swollen and it's very hard to walk right now. People get that not being pregnant. They get that. The runners get it. Yeah. So it's almost like too much strain and force

Starting point is 00:44:46 and no idea right yeah interesting i mean i'm 25 pounds heavier yeah but still big deal i should be able to handle it yeah exactly it's not like you're 25 pounds on top of a large person no no person who's now like like honestly right now you wouldn't i I mean, again, no one, but no one would know. I mean, I don't want to say anything inflammatory here, but like the average person is walking around. Right. Like you could definitely pull off not being pregnant right now. Right. You could.

Starting point is 00:45:17 And you're 25 pounds heavier. I mean, again, the boobs, I mean, are a little bit out of control, but still, maybe that's just a thing that you have is ridiculously giant boobs. Okay. So what are you doing to deal with the foot thing? Icing. Lots of foot rubs. Yeah. Emily's helped tape my ankles and feet.

Starting point is 00:45:35 And there's not much that she's familiar with. No, she walked in. She said, I mean, it's not a common thing. Not super common. She's amazing at taping and doing regular sport injuries. But this is not. This is kind of a fluke thing i mean they're totally swollen and this could be something that lasts the rest of the time or could come and go or we don't know yet we have no idea interesting okay and what else you said joint pain you're

Starting point is 00:45:55 having some yeah that's actually gotten a little bit better since i've reduced the amount of gluten which is interesting so that's gotten a little bit better but that also comes from because you're you're sort of like tendons and ligaments and things are moving and adjusting to me right so you get increase in relaxin yeah the heartburn the heartburn action new thing yeah right that new little thing they say is sometimes that the progesterone relaxes that sphincter. Okay. Heartburn's the worst. It's a little new accessory that I've gotten, but it's great. You know, who cares? I mean, because you have that growth versus fixed mindset, right? So you have the growth mindset of every new discomfort that you're experiencing is sort of, you take it as a challenge instead of like a,

Starting point is 00:46:40 let's add this on to all the things. No, don't feel that way most of the time I would say 90% of the time I process through it and then the other 10% of the time I'll call Emily or Teresa or Shane and say listen I fucking I cannot I've slept the entire day I cannot believe I have mounds of work to do and I'm laying here doing, you know, being resting because resting. Yeah. Yeah. Resting's a hard one for you. And I would say that that you have to call someone and talk it through. Yeah. Right. Otherwise you think, wow, I'm really not doing enough. No one does this stuff alone. Like you didn't get pregnant alone. You're not going to be pregnant alone. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that like some sort of type a people

Starting point is 00:47:25 have a hard time with and we were talking about this offline too is even recognizing when to get help and that help can be literally like you said calling a girlfriend and just like talking about what's going on get a cleaning lady every week okay that's a good one yeah my place is pretty clean i don't care she's coming on monday yeah it's one less thing if something falls it's dead to me it's on the ground it is gone i love that it's there dead to me fucking pick that up i can't if it falls it's dead to me it's done i'm done that's amazing um yeah so getting help and also i have not yet been cooking for myself which is just makes me the shame. Does Shane cook?

Starting point is 00:48:06 Oh God, he's the worst. Yeah, he's like, I'll bring you some MREs. Oh God, no. Just add some water. He's the sweetest. He really, really tries. And so he'll order me prime now. Yeah. And I swear to God, if I get one more jar of tomato paste, I'm just thinking to myself,

Starting point is 00:48:25 I don't even understand this order, but I'm thinking to myself, what is, I don't even understand this order, but I'm so grateful. Okay, so do you guys, and I don't even know if this is something people still do,

Starting point is 00:48:33 but is there like breathing classes, Lamaze classes, like couples classes? Like are you guys planning on doing any of that kind of stuff so that he,

Starting point is 00:48:40 he's still active duty till May, so we are apart. Honey, here's all the work I'm doing knocked up and by myself but when he gets back after may you've still got some time to work on these things and like you can you can say about that look i i obviously trust his ability to deal

Starting point is 00:48:56 with stressful situations but this is a but this is a unique situation it'd be good so there's no there's no plan to like we're gonna practice i don't know like the visualization together like what's gonna happen the day of and like how we're gonna how he's gonna talk to you right like yes this is another thing i'm thinking about my partner i'm like he's great he's the most supportive person he's amazing sometimes the way that he approaches like problems or challenges if i'm in the middle of birthing i might tell him to fuck off right you know what i mean so maybe we have to have a conversation about how do you want him to support you on the day of that's a really good point he's gonna listen to this and he's gonna say honey okay I'm glad that I can I'm

Starting point is 00:49:32 saying something useful he's gonna be really all over it and say okay so here's gonna be our plan it's true because there are different you know you you communicate with your partner differently in different situations different situations call for different, you know, so right. No, no hand signals. Yeah, exactly. That's, I mean, but I don't, I wonder if that is still a thing. Cause I don't actually hear about it. Most of my friends, they talk about, they've got a doula, they've got somebody who just like knows what they're talking about, that they can ask questions. But yeah, that whole process, like talk that through, how do you want him to help you the day of? Cause you're the one doing the work. So how's he going to help you? I really should. We, well, we'll get to get on that program.

Starting point is 00:50:09 All right, good. That's the next thing. Okay. That'd be a good thing. So what, I guess let's kind of bring it full circle and then we'll kind of talk a little bit more like high level about some other stuff, but I don't think you, you probably haven't gone this deep dive into pregnancy on a podcast yet. No, I haven't really talked about it. And I also haven't had time to really think about it. Yeah. I did a podcast when I was 12 weeks with a really great friend of mine, Don Saladino. And the comparison to 12 weeks to now, it feels as if it wasn't that long ago. But it's six weeks.

Starting point is 00:50:44 You know, it's still so much different yeah so different so it's kind of cool this is almost kind of like forcing you to put your brain there in a way that maybe you don't have time to do otherwise absolutely yeah i mean the other thing is that the other things that we that is common that women may not expect is your gums get all inflamed so if you have that about it's who knows periodontal disease welcome to pregnancy seems like massive design flaws with this stuff right well i mean we we know the the again the sort of um evolutionary reason why it's harder for us to give birth than other animals because i i lament this all the time i'm like why how have we not

Starting point is 00:51:21 figured out how smart human beings are why it sucks so much for human women to give birth? Some women love it. Some women love being pregnant. But generally speaking, it's a much trickier physical experience than other mammals, right? Like other mammals kind of labor a little bit and the baby comes out and then they wander off and it's fine. For us, it's like a real thing. It's like a real process because their shoulders and their heads, their heads their heads are so much bigger right and our um our hips got smaller when we became bipedal and started walking upright and their heads got bigger to make room

Starting point is 00:51:54 for those giant brains because we eat so many organ meats and make fire and all that good stuff so the reason that we're smart and awesome is also the reason why giving birth sucks so much for us just one more way that women are getting screwed. And then I hear that they forget right after they pop it out and they forget how bad they have to, or else there'd be no more humans. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Yeah. I don't even know where we went with that. Why it hurts so much and why it's the worst. Oh, we're talking about teeth. So, you know, women definitely,

Starting point is 00:52:21 if you get pregnant, you should go to the dentist, get your teeth cleaned. And now I'm going every two months. For an actual like cleaning checkup. Yes. I use a water pick. I use a mechanical toothbrush.

Starting point is 00:52:33 I use a oral B. I think it's a genius. Water pick for sure. And then I rub this toothpaste called Revitin on my teeth. It has CoQ10 and has certain anti-inflammatory properties to lower that inflammation. That is not, that's important to make sure you don't continue to have gum disease. Did you, um, do you ever do that coconut oil pulling? Do you ever hear about, yeah. Do you like that? I do. I've done it a couple of times and I'm like, who's got time to do this for like

Starting point is 00:52:59 10 minutes. Don't give up. Who does it for 10 minutes? Do it for two minutes and you're done. I guess it's one of those like a little bit's better than nothing. Totally easy. All right. Okay. So like to bring this high level back again, what are your, at this point you're eight, about 18 weeks now, you said a little over 18 weeks. What are some thoughts that you have for friends and listeners like me who are thinking about it, are in the process and they look to you for sort of guidance and to feel better about what's going on. What are some sort of like high level thoughts about what you've learned, what you're taking from this experience that you can kind of like leave us with? What we'll say prior to getting pregnant is minimizing the stress of needing to make that happen. No matter what you do, you can augment the process.

Starting point is 00:53:47 So if you do IVF or you decide to freeze your eggs, but truly you cannot force the process if you are trying to do it naturally and to really relax into it as opposed to being so uptight about it and also making the decision. You're either going for it or if you're not. It's not about getting pregnant and then worrying about how your life is going to change. You made this decision. Go and be all in it. Yeah. Reframe.

Starting point is 00:54:16 I would. I would say that. I would say to try to be as healthy as you can prior to getting pregnant, as lean, as fit, as healthy as you can. And then really you have to ultimately surrender you should start taking a prenatal a couple months prior make sure you're getting b12 and folate you don't want any kind of neurological defect if you are going to be trying to get pregnant laying off the booze and the drugs will be key so you're starting to prep your body

Starting point is 00:54:43 and also prep your body. You know, I really prepped my mind for it. I slowed down a little bit. I wasn't, I tend to be kind of aggressive in nature. I really just shifted to a little more internal perspective, working with someone who specializes in pregnancy, doing your squats, doing your pelvic floor, getting that stuff taken care of, and then finding a good physician to make sure that you or your partner don't have happy metals, especially if they're deploying or going overseas. Really important things that you want to make sure of when you are thinking about conceiving. I think that that's all really essential. Okay. I like all all of that I like the concept of sort

Starting point is 00:55:25 of as we like to do anyway you make a decision and then you go with it but you also there it's that's on one hand then the other hand is well now that the decision is made of course you can do your research you can do your work and you can take care of yourself but you also have to just go with what is happening because this is such a unique experience that cannot be fully prepared for or understood so you need to just make the decision and then go you can't micromanage it you can do the best you can you can stop drinking not do drugs take your omegas take your b vitamins or your your prenatal and i haven't i can't tell you the amount of people that have said to me are you nervous about the change? I'm thinking to myself, I don't even think that way. No,

Starting point is 00:56:10 bring it. Yeah. This is a decision I made. I can't wait. Surrender to the adventure. Yeah. All of it. Your armpits smell the whole thing. It's great. Some of us are sweaty to begin with. I'm not naming any names sitting at this table right now, but that won't be a big issue for me. Right. Okay. But actually that touched on another specific question um and the reminder the take the prenatal vitamins like before you get pregnant is a good thing because the folate like folic acid and all that stuff you need okay but what about what general tests should people take if they're like all right we want to get pregnant in the next few months we want to make sure that we're both on point and we're both healthy what are some things that even again people who think they're healthy people who don't have any pre-existing conditions or issues or

Starting point is 00:56:52 reasons to be concerned what tests should we be looking at one you should do a general blood work you should do general blood work so this check your thyroid you did that i definitely would recommend that so she did an ion test yeah Yeah. You should screen for heavy metals. You should get your thyroid checked. You should get your iron levels checked, all of your inflammatory markers checked. Make sure that there's not something underlying that's brewing. Another really good thing to do is a 28-day cycle test to see when you're ovulating, even if you're getting your period, if you're ovulating, right?

Starting point is 00:57:20 So when you're ovulating, if you're ovulating, what your hormones are doing. So what does that mean? Does that mean that I could be having my period but not necessarily ovulating you might not be really seeing egg yeah really still shed the lining but it doesn't mean that you're so that that would be indicative of a much bigger issue because if that's happening then you you know you work with a fertility specialist probably take some medication you know you just so i guess that's what the what the point of that is you could be having regular periods and think that everything's working right and it may not necessarily like with pcos issue yeah so things like pcos you definitely want to you know definitely

Starting point is 00:57:54 get checked with your ob-gyn things like that 28 day cycle i would do a dutch test i would definitely test your hormones um those would all be really good places to start. And then the partner, so let's talk about the partner, definitely do the same blood work and also heavy metal screening. I definitely recommend that. And if there are any concerns, check their sperm count and motility. And that would be a urologist would check that or fertility specialist. Okay. All right. That all makes sense to me. Okay. I feel good about it. All right. So

Starting point is 00:58:31 let's, um, switch from baby talk for a second and just, let's just talk about what you're up to right now. Cause you're sitting here in a pile of papers. So you've got some travel going on. What are some things that you're working on right now that are exciting? Um, well I'm prepping for this next month. I have a couple of talks. I'm going to be talking here in New York at the assemblage and that will be April 18th. Okay. I think from seven to eight 30. Okay. I'm also that day doing Mark Hyman's podcast talking about how the importance of protein, there's all this misconception, protein causes cancer, it decreases longevity. This is a huge part of your message to your sort of general community, is this like protein. Well, I'm big into truth and I'm big into always trying to seek answers. And having been trained as a geriatrician, being at the bedside of hundreds of dying patients, and knowing that midlife muscle mass, the lower your muscle mass is, the higher your level,

Starting point is 00:59:31 you know, the higher increase in all-cause mortality, looking at the risk ratios where people say protein causes cancer, and then this huge push for vegan and vegetarianism, I am seeing it, and I have seen it, right, doing a fellowship at WashU, I've seen it destroy people's lives why is this still such a contentious issue among like scientists and researchers it's propaganda driven it is personal and propaganda driven you have a group of people that are very loud and no one speaks up for the animals or the higher protein nutrition which is essentially key. So it's just very, the conversation is very skewed. It's skewed. So you have no one going to bat and saying, listen, the RDA is a mistake.

Starting point is 01:00:12 If you really want to get healthy, your intake needs to be double the RDA. What really perpetuates cancer and inflammation is excess calories. It's not, it's not protein. It's excess calories, high levels of insulin over a period of time. How can average people like me, like I'm not a doctor, I'm not a researcher, I'm not a scientist, but I'm somebody who's very more interested than the average person in these kinds of studies and this kind of information and how to maximize my health and my diet and my nutrition and all these things how can i feel like i'm getting accurate information when there are so many special interests that are that are pushing research being done and then there's misinterpretation totally of actual valid research because people don't know how to interpret it or read it or communicated properly you have to find people you trust and you have to find sources you trust. And you have to believe that there are certain people that

Starting point is 01:01:08 don't seek, have a confirmation bias, right? If you told me protein was bad, I would say, okay, well just show me the data and let's work for it. I am not pro-protein because I'm pro-protein. I am pro-protein because I am for truth and empowerment of individuals. And I think that... And your research bears it out. It's not just... Yeah. And I look up to the people that have been doing it that have 30 years of research that are highly ethical and highly educated and say, okay, so let's break down the study. Let me show you how I did this one. You can't compare epidemiological data. If you really look at the risk ratios of smoking and cancer, it's at a 12. And for it to be significant, the number has to be greater than

Starting point is 01:01:51 two. When you look at protein and cancer, the risk ratio is 1.3. And then you've got people that talk about the China study and these things that are all hand selected, hand cherry picked information that affects individuals health. Yeah. And so I just am really an advocate for the people. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is, this is again, what it makes me feel so jaded because there is so much information out there and there's so much special interest that individuals can still almost seek out a quote unquote authority that will validate whatever your personal opinion is. So if you, for whatever moral reasons or your upbringing or whatever reason, think veganism is correct, you can find people who are very well respected, who can say,

Starting point is 01:02:37 I have scientific evidence to back this up because people can interpret data in a lot of, a lot of cases the way they want to. And's and there's biochemical individuality but i can tell you from my clinical experience vegans and vegetarians are the sickest group i see and it's not you know i i care about people and i care about their ability to be empowered so for some percentage you know two percent of the population can do great as a vegan a ketogenic style vegan there are people with individual by population can do great as a vegan, a ketogenic style vegan. There are people with individual by some individuals do great on a ketogenic diet. If you are not feeling amazing and your blood markers don't indicate that you're doing amazing, you should rethink it. And I feel very strongly and I try to be as neutral and evidence-based as I can. And I will

Starting point is 01:03:23 tell you if something is my opinion and I will tell you if something is my opinion. And I will tell you if something is some data that makes sense. I think that all of that is essential. So I'm working on these talks. You know, it's hard because you're so tired and sick. But, you know, I'll be speaking of paleo effects. And what are you speaking about there? How if you listen to the current protein guidelines, you're going to be sick.

Starting point is 01:03:49 Yeah. So what are the current protein guidelines you're gonna be sick yeah so what are the current protein guidelines 28 grams per kilogram right so i would be eating like should be eating 50 grams of protein that's like so if you time for me right so if you want to not protect your muscle or have enough protein for the rest of your body for your immune cells for your gi health for your immune cells, for your GI health, for your neurotransmitters, then stick with 50. And then if you don't do 50 or you do do 50, what is the replacement? The rest of your calories comes from fat or carbohydrates. Right. Is there a difference? Because you, you do advocate for a, what many people would consider a high protein or at least like a sort of protein forward diet, right? What would be the difference? Because one of the things I keep coming up against when I'm

Starting point is 01:04:30 talking to people for the show and the research that I'm doing is there tends to be like slightly different prescriptions for people who are maybe perhaps younger and chasing more of a performance goal versus people who are chasing more of a longevity goal. And it seems to be what I hear generally is that when you're more focused on longevity and just general health, not performance, you can be a little bit lower protein. Okay. So if I'm say I'm at an age where I could kind of go either way at this point, cause I'm not like 21 anymore, but I'm not 50 either. I can, I can be chasing both performance and longevity at this point. You want to chase longevity. You have to be calorie controlled. So you would not advocate for different protein levels for either of those situations?

Starting point is 01:05:09 Yeah, as you age, you need more protein. And that is very clear in the data. The concept of longevity is based on epidemiological data or ad libitum overfed rats. When you look at human data, those individuals with higher muscle mass through their life and as they age, those individuals are higher muscle mass through their life and as they age those individuals are the healthiest they're i mean and this is 30 plus years of randomized controlled trials well done research that is reproducible okay and if you look at individuals that age this the thin sarcopenic ones are the ones that fall and break the hip. When you are younger, you can get away

Starting point is 01:05:45 with less protein because you are driven by hormones. Insulin, testosterone, you are driven by growth hormone. You're driven by essentially growth hormones. As you age, you no longer grow taller. You're no longer, quote, growing, you then still need to maintain your muscle mass and continue to develop the tissue as long as you can in order to do that, because you are no longer dependent on insulin and growth hormone, or as it's not as high, you need to stimulate that muscle tissue by dietary protein and resistance training. So literally the opposite of what most people are told that as you get older, you don't need as much of that stuff. You actually need more. It is absolutely incorrect. And the data shows it. They have, there's a study, a protege study, and that is a position paper with all the

Starting point is 01:06:34 world-leading experts who came together to talk about the current recommendations for being, for protein, which by the way, are based on 18-year-old men. And then that number is still given to individuals who are chronically ill or who are 65 or COPD or chronic illnesses. It doesn't make sense. So just if we were to take a step back, logically, it makes no sense. Again, as you age, as those hormones decrease, say 35 and up, you begin to require more protein. And a good rule of thumb is whatever your ideal body weight is, is that in grams of protein. Yes. You do need to make sure the calories are under, you know, if you talk about longevity, be as strong and as fit as you can.

Starting point is 01:07:22 Be as active and as mentally in tune and exercise your brain. Get phytonutrients. Make sure that you have a good level of omegas in these things. And don't eat excess calories. Yeah, it's excess calories that's probably the biggest, people's biggest issues. Yeah, of course. It's not protein. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:40 Would you say, and you just said, you know, that obviously we allow for, for differences, um, depending on our biology and also our goals and where we are in life and all of these things. And some people do better on keto. Some people do better on a carnivore. Some people do better, more, um, plant forward kind of diets, whatever. But for you personally, generally, you're saying sort of protein first is important. And then decide how you do. So then that's where you can kind of personalize things a little bit. So you don't necessarily think like, once you get the protein sorted out, stick to fat first and then add in some carbs. Or if you're a highly active person, you should be more carbs. Like that's where you can play. Totally. But if you keep one thing consistent, get your protein in.

Starting point is 01:08:25 And just take a look around. When you think about cancer and you think about these diseases of a Western society, which you think about obesity, hypertension, diabetes, these are diseases largely or can be attributed to overconsumption. Alzheimer's disease is type 3 diabetes of the brain. Some of it is metabolic derangement. Of course, there's the genetic components. And when I say these things, I don't mean it in such a black and white term. But I will tell you you muscle is your currency. It is your metabolic currency. It is largely responsible for your resting metabolic rate. It is the largest site of

Starting point is 01:09:12 glucose disposal, fatty acid oxidation. It is also responsible for locomotion and protecting. When something goes wrong, muscle is the first thing to go or your body starts to break it down yeah cachexia that's what kills cancer patients is the wasting it's their body can no longer keep up they have completely wasted away so we focus on cancer and we talk about the tumors but what about the concomitant syndromes that happen that go along with it when individuals die is it's not go along with it? When individuals die, it's not often, I mean, they do die of, quote, the cancer, but typically they stopped eating and they wasted away. Yeah. And muscle is sexy and good for you and fun. So that part is important

Starting point is 01:10:00 too. Okay. All right. So that's probably one of the, like research-wise, that's what you're sort of focusing on right now. Yeah, right. So I have a whole stack of papers. Talk about mTOR signaling. Talk about the syndromes associated with cancer, cachexia, and actually the drivers, which is largely obesity and inflammation, things of that nature. We all, you know, so there's a whole bunch of stuff that I'm looking at. And then the other component of what I always am working on and in which I would love all the listeners to really pay attention to, is the work that I do with special operations.

Starting point is 01:10:30 The special forces community, they are largely underrepresented. And I work with a foundation called Task Force Dagger. I would love everyone to go and follow them and offer them support. There is multiple pillars to what they do. And the branch that I work with is for functional integrative medicine and taking care of the operators, pre-deployment, post-deployment. And these are people that have given their life, the SEALs, the assaulters. And this group will respond to their needs within two hours, say someone has lost a family member, but also the operators have very specific needs.

Starting point is 01:11:10 They've been exposed to blasts. They have head trauma. They have environmental toxins. They have exposures from all over the places that they've been, and they deserve the help. Yeah, absolutely. And so I work very closely with them, and obviously it's a large part of my passion and my practice.

Starting point is 01:11:32 And you're still taking clients from every walk of life, but including first responders, special forces, military members. Yes, so I do always make room in my schedule for them. I feel that it is my responsibility. If there are active military or retired combat, we're talking about combat military, they can reach out to me directly or they can reach out to Task Force Dagger. And those, they will cover the costs of my visit and cover the cost of travel. That's crazy. That's such a big deal. It is. Is that the, um,

Starting point is 01:12:05 the main bulk of what they do is they help provide, like connect these, um, individuals with people who can help serve them like you. They do. They have multiple domains. They have a healthcare initiative, which is one part. They have a rehabilitation aspect, which is those for therapy for PTSD. They work with the whole families. They also have an immediate need portion for if someone has gotten killed in action or needs immediate help within two hours, they will respond to any request. So supporting the family, supporting the family, supporting the operator. Let's say an operator has lost two limbs or lost a limb or has a really catastrophic event happen. They will respond within two hours.

Starting point is 01:12:46 These guys are always on call. It has been their mission in life and it's run by former operators and it's really incredible. I know that there's a lot of foundations out there that are really sexy and in the news, but I've dedicated my time to, I believe that this foundation is incredible. So I would love it if the listeners or people that follow me would listen and offer them support, however that, however they can help. Yeah. They're doing incredible work and that's, that's a way that you can thank people for their service. In addition to just thanking people for their service, that's like putting a little bit of your time and effort

Starting point is 01:13:23 and money where your mouth is and making sure that it's going to helping people who their service. That's like putting a little bit of your time and effort and money where your mouth is. Totally. Absolutely. Making sure that it's going to helping people who deserve it. And we will have, in New York City, I will have a event, a cocktail hour. Cool. Probably in May to raise awareness. We'll bring in some of the operators who've gone through the program to talk about it.

Starting point is 01:13:39 Yeah. I'm coming to that. Are you kidding? You should probably speak there. That's amazing. No, I mean, again, like, obviously, for my own personal reasons, I deeply, deeply appreciate the work that you're doing because it is something that obviously is incredibly important and we can't thank the people who are doing that kind of work enough and the people, what they're

Starting point is 01:13:59 sacrificing for us. And so to have somebody at your level and with your level of dedication, um, helping them, it's really, really important. And I thank you personally for that because that's a big deal. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, we need people like you in our, in our corner doing that kind of work. So I couldn't be happier to do it. It's really interesting. There's a lot of glamor that goes around. I mean, these guys are the highest level warriors there there is, and there's a lot of glamor around it. But the cost to their body and the cost to their mind and the cost to their livelihood is something that people will never see.

Starting point is 01:14:32 No, because they won't talk about it. They won't complain about it and bitch about it. And sometimes one of the challenges, too, is getting them to acknowledge getting the support and the help. You give them five minutes with me and I guarantee it. They're like, yeah, okay, she scares me. I'm going to let her help me. You know, I won't get punched in the face. So it's fine. It's true though. One aspect though, that I think people don't get as much like people hear about PTSD and people hear about catastrophic acute injuries. But one thing that people don't really consider is the kind of work that they do is basically like the stress

Starting point is 01:15:03 of a trauma surgeon with the physical stress of a professional athlete with add compound all of these things it's incredibly um tough on the body just over time you know so if you are lucky enough to get out of um active duty service without a catastrophic injury you have all your limbs you still are just a mess yeah i mean these people and there's a reason why these guys aren't doing this job when they're 65 70 years old because you you physically cannot i mean it takes years off your life it takes a massive massive physical toll but it's that kind of chronic like well my shoulder's just messed up now and i have this problem and i have that issue and i have that injury that kind of never really fully healed and

Starting point is 01:15:42 all of these things compound and it's well, this is just my life now. This is what I signed up for because that's their attitude. That is. But there's plenty that can be done to improve quality of life. And it's not just nutrition and diet. It's really advanced. We're talking about stellate ganglion blocks and regenerative medicine for their neck, back, and shoulders. Talking about really screening them for tropical illnesses from

Starting point is 01:16:05 the places that they've deployed as well. I learned that they bring back lots of, um, they bring back, what is it? Gross. Yeah. Yeah. For all you operator wives, give them to their spouses. For all you operator wives. I really never thought that that was a thing.

Starting point is 01:16:18 I did not know that someone could come back with a bug or something in their guts and give it to their partner. I thought that was i didn't realize and then when they come back from the the day so the shooting and any exposure the smokes yes smoke or any heavy metals and then they come back and they put in the washing machine great guys leave your stuff leave your fucking gear in at the unit at the base don't do your laundry at home just don't bring it home these are things I'm learning leave it in the locker so or in the equipment room oh man okay cool all right well

Starting point is 01:16:52 I'm gonna let you get back to work because those stacks are calling but it was so amazing to have well I mean it's not this isn't typical girl talk but still it was girl talk I got to do it and record it and I think that um you're gonna help, you are helping a lot of people, but this is going to help a different subset that maybe doesn't get, um, access to you all the time. And pregnant women who are like me already, like freaking out about the possibility of like what it's going to be like having somebody, having someone like you going through it and we get to watch and learn from you is amazing. So yeah. Thanks for putting it out there and like letting us, you know, learn from you. It's amazing.

Starting point is 01:17:29 Thanks for having me. All right. Thank you. All right. That's it for today, guys. As always hit me up on Instagram at the muscle Maven and give me feedback. Tell me what you liked about the episode. Tell me what you want to see in future episodes. Leave me a nice rating on iTunes so that my show can continue to exist. And if you want more muscle maven in your life, head to my website. It's ashleyvanhouten.com. And I'm going to put that in my show notes because no one spells my name right. This isn't on you.

Starting point is 01:17:57 It's my problem. So I'm going to put that in the show notes so that you can find it. But head to my website and you can sign up for my weekly newsletter. That's full of cool health and fitness articles, recommended reading recipes, workout ideas, and lots of other resources. It's all free. You only get one a week, so I won't spam you. I promise. I'm just trying to spread the knowledge. And on that note, join me next week. I'm talking to a pelvic health specialist about how pelvic health or the lack of it, I should say, can contribute to things like painful sex, peeing while you're doing double unders, poor digestion, and a ton of other issues

Starting point is 01:18:32 that you would never have guessed originate in the pelvis. They're complicated areas, people. So there's a lot to learn. And I hope you come back and learn with me next week. All right, that's it. Thanks for listening.

Barbell Shrugged - Fit Pregnancy with Functional Medicine Physician Dr. Gabrielle Lyon — Muscle Maven Radio Episode #11

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