Barbell Shrugged - FIT2FAT2FIT to Optimal Health w/ Drew Manning, Anders Varner, Doug Larson and Travis Mash #800

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

Drew Manning is The NY Times Best Selling Author of the book, Fit2Fat2Fit, and creator of the hit TV show, Fit To Fat To Fit on A&E. He’s been featured on many TV shows such as Dr. Oz, The Tonight Show, CNN, The View, GMA and many more. With over 1 million social media followers, Drew continues on his mission to reshape the fitness industry with an empathy first approach helping people with not only their physical health, but also their mental health. Drew is also a certified breath work practitioner and resides in Hawai’i with his two teenage daughters and is currently enrolled in a Master’s program in psychology. Work With Us: Arétē by RAPID Health Optimization Links: Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram

Shrug Family this week on Barbell Shrug, Drew Manning is coming into the podcast. Many of you may know him from the TV show or the ridiculously crazy experiment he did on himself twice. There's a reason the show is called Fit to Fat to Fit because that is the journey that he went on and he is going to be talking about going from

a super shredded human to intentionally gaining 60 pounds, which makes me feel very, very anxious just even thinking about, I actually tell the story in here in this podcast, but I had somebody, one of the casting people when I lived in the SoCal area reach out to me to be on his show and I just couldn't do it. I couldn't find, I couldn't understand

how I was gonna actually gain 60 pounds. It totally freaked me out. So it's kind of, it's very fun having him on here so I can actually tell that story and talk to him about how impressive and scary that journey is for him. But also, Drew is now on our team in that he has been looking for something

that takes fit to fat to fit into the next phase that kind of all of us go through when we're on this. We're always interested in getting strong, having a body that looks like we work out. Then we get into nutrition to figure out, abs are made in the kitchen and you hear all these things. But once we came across him and he came across us, it was a great fit.

And bringing him on board with his platform as well as taking things to the next level of what we do here with all the lab testing and lifestyle tracking, et cetera, when it comes to working at Rapid Health Optimization. So we're stoked to have him on board. As always friends, if you want to check out a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis, you can head over to rapidhealthreport.com. That is where Dan Garner and Dr. Andy Galpin are doing their analysis.

You can see exactly how deep we go in working with us in rapid health optimization. You can access that at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, let's get into the show. A little ball off the rug, Dom Anders, Martin, Doug Larson, Drew Manning. Coach Travis Mattis is gonna be hanging out here in a little bit too, but Drew Manning,

welcome to the show, man. You- What's up, guys? You're like rapid health optimization, fit to fat to fit. Dude, I wanna know, if you guys haven't, we're gonna hear one of the craziest stories of all time. I actually have like some fun pieces to add to this. Usually I'm just a question guy, opinion guy.

I have some real experience with your specific product. But the, dude, I wanna dig in. You went on a giant weight gaining and then losing and then gaining and then losing experiment and got very, very famous because it's so extreme how far you went, which I wanna dig into all the pieces. But dude, I want to know that day that you were like, yeah, I'm going to go gain 60 pounds on purpose.

Most people get there like half a pound at a time and then 60 of them. But you were like, I'm going to go all the way. What in the world is going through your mind saying I'm going to do that? So let me give you a little of the backstory, first of all. So before that, it has to do with how I was raised. So I was born in a family of 11 brothers and sisters and we all played sports. Yeah, my parents had 11 kids, no twins, no adoptions. What's that? Do you live on a farm?

What is that? Eleven. That's so fair. I know I did grow up in a Mormon family. And yeah, that's a discussion for another day. But yeah, it was my parents had 11 kids and I was one of eight boys and we all played sports. So I grew up playing American football and wrestling from a very young age. And as a byproduct of that, obviously, I was in shape for most of my life, because those were the

sports that I played. And then fast forward 2009, I became certified as a personal trainer. So here was someone who had never been overweight a day in my life, trying to help people who were pretty much overweight every day of their life. And so I could tell there's a disconnect right off the bat, because in my mind, I was like, it's so easy. You follow this meal plan, you eat this food, you don't eat that food, you go to the gym, boom, you get results. Like what's

the issue? Why do people struggle? And I had a brother a lot of the time who I was training, I would get so frustrated with him because he would, I would give him a meal plan and I'd be like, okay, how'd you do this weekend? He's like, oh man, I tried really hard, but like this happened and that happened. Or I would see him at family functions and he would be eating all the pizza and the cake at the family function. I'm like, dude, what are you doing? Like, I'm your trainer.

Like, you know, you're not supposed to be eating that food. He's like, yeah, I know, but this and that, I'm like, these are excuses. And then one day he kind of told me, he's like, you know, Drew, you don't understand what it's like for me or for people like me, because for you, it's always been easy, but for me and for us, it's really hard.

And I kind of like thought about that. I'm like, you know what, you're absolutely right. Like, I don't understand why is it so hard? It seems so simple. Like you just do it, right? That was my mentality going into this. And so I was like, maybe there's something I could learn. And then I remember I was driving to work one day and this idea just boom, popped up in my head. Like, what if you got fat on purpose and documented the whole thing? Maybe that would give you a different understanding. And so that was kind of the genesis of fit to fit to fit 1.0.

Dude, I love it. Is that, was that prior? Was that prior to having any ideas about making it like a public famous thing? Or is that just like, I'm just going to do this on my own. And well, here's the thing. I didn't know it would become a popular famous viral thing I just had the idea of doing it and documenting it and I didn't know anything about social media this is back in 2011 you guys so there was no live streaming or insta stories or

tiktok or any of that it was just Facebook and YouTube for the most part and so I was like you know research how to start a YouTube channel how to create a website and I had my wife at the time she was like my videographer who like documented this whole journey I was like, you know, resource how to start a YouTube channel, how to create a website. And I had my wife at the time, she was like my videographer who like documented this whole journey. I was like, okay, for six months, I'm going to stop exercising. I'm going to eat a standard American diet. I'm going to document my journey of going from fit to fat. And so that was kind of like, and so I didn't know it would become a thing, Doug.

So it was like, it kind of just happened organically that it went viral. Yeah. It kind of just happened organically that it went viral. Yeah, yeah, I have been in the exact same place. Make that decision, because when you got your TV show, they called me and I thought I hit the jackpot. I was like, I'm going to L.A. I'm going to be famous. I'm going to be on TV. These people think I'm a great trainer.

I'm so excited. And then as I was talking to that casting person They I was like, what do I need to do? I'm on my way and they go you need to put on 50 pounds and I went All of the stages and then went I just don't think I can do that. Like it was so, it was, it was so scary. One of the biggest things I remember about that decision, like it, it wasn't even a hard decision. Like by the end of the phone calls, like this one just isn't for me guys. Like you need like the trainer guy, I'm your guy, but I can't, I can't put on the weight. Like I'll freak out. I will have like a full breakdown after putting on

15 pounds of bad weight. It will just like, I feel all the things. But I remember just being like, I don't know if I would be able to come back. Like that part that really freaked me out was once created an environment that allows you to put that kind of weight on, an environment that allows you to put that kind of weight on, it's, you have to go engineer your whole life again to take it off. And that was tough. I don't blame you. I don't blame you at all.

It was very hard. If you look at the show, the people that were on the show, every single trainer went through the exact same thing that I went through. There was like an identity crisis that happened where at first it was fun. Like the first chapter of the first month is like, Oh, it's freedom. I can go eat all the cereal, all the junk food.

Like it is a sense of fun. I will kind of like admit that because cinnamon toast crunch tastes freaking good. Right. And I had that every day, but it gets old really quick. And then an identity crisis happens because a lot of us, like you, you guys, and me, like we've been in shape for so long. Our body image becomes our self image kind kind of and in that situation when your body image isn't what

you're used to it being like in shape and fit you kind of lose yourself and I kind of had a freak out moment where I was like who am I I wanted to go up to strangers and explain to them I'm not really overweight you guys this is just an experiment I wanted to go show them my before pictures so that they understood that it wasn't this overweight person because I was so uncomfortable In my own skin being overweight for the first time in my life. Did you notice people? Is there a difference in how people talk to you or I Don't even know like when they like when you're meeting someone,

when you have like a tight shirt on and biceps and you're in shape and like their shoulders and then 16 pounds later are people like, like a different vibe when someone meets you? That's a good question. And I think it's interesting the way I perceived the change is I think most of it was way I perceived the change is, I think most of it was in my head of how people looked at me.

No one like mistreated me or fat shamed me or anything like that. And I would just want to throw this out there. I think it's different in society for men and for women. I think men, it's more socially acceptable to be chubby or, you know, husky or whatever you want to call it versus women I think are judged more harshly with their body image and if they're overweight.

So no one was rude or mean because I still had my mask. You guys have to understand I still had like my muscle mass underneath it all. So I was obese, overweight, but it wasn't like morbidly obese and it wasn't like I lost all my muscle. So there was that. And so no one was mean to me, but I did feel judged in certain moments, but I was like, it was more so of how people were looking at me, whether I was at the grocery store. I remember one time there was these

three ladies behind me. I had my grocery cart full of like all the cereal, all the cookies, all the chips and crackers and all the sodas. And I wanted to say to them like, hey ladies, like normally I buy organic like kale and spinach and I was like unloading all this junk food and I just I could feel the stares like happening but whether that was in the head or real. I'm a terrible starrer, like I can't help it. If I'm in the Costco I'm like, oh that's how we got there, like I can't help it. I just it's like even like kids eat bad food I'm like what are you doing yeah and I eat bad food and I still look in the mirror and go you idiots that you didn't need that like yeah it's so like we can talk about that because I don't like look at food and think oh that's so tasty I think yeah protein that's the carb. I wish I chose a better carb.

Chocolate chips don't count. And there's like, you know, like, it's never like too far off, but I do it to myself. I do it to my kids, like everything. Like if you can count, if you can like look at a plate of food and like roughly count your macros of what you're eating, you've lost the subjective part of eating and now it's just like energy that you're eating, you've lost the subjective part of eating. And now it's just

like energy that you're taking into your body. Dr. Andy Galpin here. As a listener of the show, you've probably heard us talking about the RTA program, which we're all incredibly proud of. It's a culmination of everything Dan Garner and I have learned over more than two decades of working with some of the world's most elite performers, award-winning athletes, billionaires, musicians, executives, and frankly, anyone who just wanted to be at their absolute best. Arate is not a normal coaching program. It's not just macros and a workout plan.

It's not physique transformation and pre and post pictures. Arate is something completely different. Arate is incredibly comprehensive and designed to uncover your unique molecular signature, find your performance anchors, and solve them permanently. You'll be working with not one person, but rather a full team of elite professionals, each with their own special expertise, to maximize precision, accuracy, and effectiveness of your analysis and optimization plan.

Arate isn't about treating symptoms or quick fixes. It's about unlocking your full potential and looking, feeling, and performing at your absolute best, physically and mentally, when the stakes are the highest. To learn more, visit aratelab.com. That's A-R-E-T-E lab.com. Now, back to the show.

I can totally see, like, you're like, no, stop. I'm good. I know how to do this. I'm smart. Yeah. Yeah. And we can talk about that perspective because I think that's a good perspective to have, but I want to talk about why everyone doesn't have that perspective when it comes to food.

And so I think it's really important to dive into that because I learned so much about the psychology of emotional eating and self-sabotage and how food has become this coping mechanism, I would say unhealthy coping mechanism when it comes to the stresses of life which I'm sure we'll dive into but yeah I appreciate you bringing that up because that was kind of how I used to see food as well. Yeah dig in I'd love to understand like environmentally and kind of the mindset around where you since you've been there like where what what is the struggle with just going with like cutting the bad decisions yeah why is that so hard that's a good question so this is all describe my journey of like how this

experience or this experiment which i've done twice now um it changed my whole perspective on on food addiction and emotional eating. Because just like you guys used to think, it's so simple. You just change your perspective, you eat this food, food is fuel, and it's so simple. Once you figure it out, everyone should be able to do this,

and I'm gonna judge people about why they don't see it the way I see it. So I was truly humbled from this experience, just so you guys know. It was one of the hardest, most humbling things I've ever done. I think truly humbled from this experience, just so you guys know, it was one of the hardest, most humbling things I've ever done. I think that's why people resonated with it because I wasn't making fun of people. I wasn't like shaming people and saying, oh, no excuses. It's so easy. If I can do it, you can do it. And you know, you shouldn't have any excuses. It was more, it humbled me to the point where I'm like,

I was so much more empathetic and had so much more respect for people that struggle with transformation or body image issues. Because for me, this is what I learned from this experience is that, you know, food is, like I said, has become this coping mechanism. And if you grew up from a very young age and you, you develop a pattern of behavior when it comes to dealing with stresses. So let's say you have, we all have traumas, we all have like emotional challenges in life. And some of us will gravitate towards healthier coping mechanisms, exercise, you know, you know, getting out in nature, meditating, journaling, therapy, you know, community, these things that help us regulate our nervous system in a healthy way.

Unfortunately in our society, we have so much access to certain substances that will do the same thing, but in a quicker, more desirable, more fun way. And that's junk food, that's drugs, that's alcohol, that's smoking, that's, you know, porn, you know, social media scrolling. There's all these other unhealthier coping mechanisms. And so if you start from a very young age developing these coping mechanisms when it comes to high stress situations. So let's say you had an abusive parent

or you grew up in a very traumatic environment in your youth, you have these stressors. And if you gravitate towards food or vaping or drugs or something from a very young age, your brain is learning these patterns of how to deal with stress. And so if you've been doing that the first three decades of your life and now all of a sudden you're like, I'm going to quit sugar and alcohol this year and this is my year,

I'm just going to change my habits. It's like a drug addict getting off of drugs. Like, oh, I'm just going to willpower my way out of this and it's just going to be easy. And then for the first week or two, their willpower battery is exhausted. And then what happens, those patterns or behaviors are so embedded in their mind that when those triggers come up again, the brain is doing what it's been wired to do now.

It's gonna go towards the path of least resistance and go towards those unhealthy recoping mechanisms. And that's what's so hard when it comes to transformation is people think, I'll just willpower my way out of it. And I'm a big fan of the book called Willpower Doesn't Work by Benjamin Hardy. If any of you guys struggle with willpower, go read that book to understand that it's not about your ability to willpower your way out of it. I know that

there's like, David Goggins of the world and these people that can do these amazing things. But let's be honest, that's not your normal person like your average person is not gonna be able to willpower their way out of something like this. And so when people have like these hard and comfortable emotions, we don't like to sit in pain as humans. So what do we try and do?

We try and escape the pain. We try and numb the pain or distract ourselves from the pain so we don't have to feel it. And with junk food, highly processed junk food that we have here in America, it does the job so good that you can literally have this food multiple times per day and you know never have to feel those uncomfortable emotions of life because you can numb it with ice cream and alcohol

and you know cinnamon toast, crunch, whatever it is. It's just really hard to break that pattern and that's why emotional eating, self-sabotage with food or food addiction, I have so much empathy for people that struggle with that. And my whole messaging is about helping people overcome the psychological challenges of transformation. More so than just, hey, follow these macros, do this diet, and it'll all work out for you. Yeah.

So what are the suggestions in that book about if willpower doesn't work, then what are they suggesting is actually the answer? Good question. So he talks about how we are, as humans, the ultimate adaptation machines where we can adapt to new environments. So setting your environment up for success so that as a byproduct change happens that you're seeking, but you have to learn how to shape your environment. So if your environment is one that's set up for comfort, it's gonna

be super hard to see the changes that you wanna see. So if I have cinnamon toast crunched in the fridge and ice cream in the freezer and all these snack foods that I know are there to kinda help me deal with my emotions, it's so convenient and easy just to go over there. But if we can reshape our environment and adapt to that new environment in a healthier way, then that's how you're gonna achieve

the change that you're seeking, is by setting up a new environment. And that's what we have to learn how to do is like, okay, how can I reshape my environment to adapt so I can see the changes? So change becomes a byproduct. It's not the focus or the end goal like people think it is. So it's a smarter way of, you know,

seeking the or achieving the change that you're seeking. Does that make sense? I actually had a call with one of our clients last week. This fits like perfectly. She's had a phenomenal, phenomenal success here and she's getting her like started and all this. And she was like, what do I expect in like the second round of this? Like I've come so far since day one to here, but what is what is, you know, the next six

to eight months look like? And my answer came back to there's really like two things that solidify the experience of pretty much anything you're doing, but specifically when it comes to health, performance, et cetera, is the identity and your environment. And I'd love to hear after going through this experience and working with so many other people that have gone through this experience,

do those two move together? Like you can't create the identity until you reshape your environment, or does the identity come first environmentally? Does that need to change first? Like how do you kind of balance those two? Because if you change the identity of who you are, now there's a new standard that you live to, and then reshaping the environment that you live in actually

allows you to not have the temptations of old. But how do you, how do you fix those two in that transformation? I think both are going to happen. Oh, Travis Mash. What's up Travis? Big old beard today. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Is he, huh? Well, I was at Sore Neck so I was trying to fit in. I know. It's like not even this is kind of like shaving. Yeah. Yeah. You got a chance. He's going for the salmon. Yeah. Yeah. So I think both can happen simultaneously. Identity and environment are happening at the same time because ultimately what you're trying to achieve is a new identity when it comes to transformation. So anytime you're changing your environment, you're kind of creating this new identity. And I really, when it comes to identity and changing your identity,

I think an excellent book is Atomic Habits. And the reason I love that book when it comes to identity change is because he talks about it from a perspective of, it's not like all of a sudden one day you wake up this new person and then you're never gonna touch alcohol and sugar ever again. He kind of shows it's not like all of a sudden one day you wake up this new person and then you're never going to touch alcohol and sugar ever again. He kind of shows it as you're casting ballots every single day.

Like one day you're casting a ballot for this new identity and maybe some days there's like old patterns or behaviors that come up and you're casting, you know, a ballot for that old identity and its majority wins. So don't beat yourself up if you're not perfect. Like if you're not following this new identity, this new environment, 100%, that's okay. All you need to do is have the majority of those days kind of build up to where this eventually the new identity kind of becomes to comes to the forefront. So I think those two things happen at the same

time. And I think that's a good way of looking at it because what will happen as people will try and jump into this new identity and will part their way into it. And then they make a mistake or they mess up and then they shame themselves and they feel all this guilt about it. And then like, no, I'm never see I'm never going to be able to change. Thinking it's just going to be black and white like that. But it's so gray. And there's like, I like that perspective of, hey, every single day you're casting a

ballot. So this is why becoming more self aware, think, is a really important part of transformation. And a lot of people in the fitness industry talk about this, the importance of self-awareness. Go ahead, Travis. I love his systematic approach, too. You know, like James Clear in Atomic Habits, the way he gives you, you know, like pairing current habits with a future new habit. And like, that's worked so well for me. So like, you know,

you know, you're gonna brush your teeth. So what else can you pair, you know, brush your teeth, go get sunlight, you know, as an example. Yeah. Habit stacking, I think is what he calls it. Right. Yeah, yeah, really good analogy. I love that approach. So yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's, you know, create learning how to create a that approach. So yeah, I think at the end of the day, it's, you know, create learning how to create a new environment, you know, casting ballots for this new identity and realize that it's going to be a process, it's going to take time. And so I think having a good support system. But that self awareness piece for me is kind of what, like I said, not a lot of people are talking about in the fitness industry. I love the quote by his name is Anthony de Mello. He wrote a book called awareness and he

says what you're aware of, you're in control of but what you're not aware of is in control of you. And I think a lot of people are still unaware of why they are the way they are and why they do what they do and why they're stuck. They don't really realize why I'm you know, behaving this way. Why do I turn to food in times of high stress or why do I turn to alcohol in times of high stress? And self-awareness is the first step of like, oh, I do this thing because it's a trigger for me and you know, this response or this coping mechanism has been embedded in my brain for decades now.

And I'm just trying to deal with this dysregulated nervous system. And I think, you know think building that self-awareness is the first step from there. You have to learn self-respect and even, I would say, self-love to then change yourself. Because I don't think you can use shame to transform yourself. I've tried using shame and self-hate, and it does work temporarily.

But I think in the long term, turning to self-respect and some form of self-love is what's really going to transform that identity from that old version of you to that new version of you. And we can dive really going to transform that identity from that old version of you to that new version of you. And we can dive into how to do that if you guys want to, but that's kind of my approach nowadays. Yeah, dig in, man. Take it away. Yeah. So, you know, like I said, the first step is self-awareness, become aware of why you do what you do. There's another really good book that I would recommend to people and it's actually

by Oprah. It's called What Happened to You? And it just reframes the question of like, instead of saying what's wrong with you, or what's wrong with me, or what's wrong with that person, you kind of go from a place of judgment to a place of curiosity. What happened to me? What kind of led to me being the way I am? What are the stepping stones? How can I connect the dots from like, you know, and I know it sounds weird to go back into your childhood, but this is why therapy is so important, is it helps you connect the dots to understand why you are the way you are. And then as you become more aware in the moment of the trigger, let's say you're

triggered, you get into a fight with your spouse, and you're about to drink alcohol, you pause and you build space between stimulus and your reaction or response. And Victor Frankel talks about this in his book, Man's Search for Meaning. He says between... It's like a... Stimulus... It's like the reading list that everyone in their life should read. Yes, yes, exactly. They're really good books. So Viktor Frankl talks about between stimulus and response there's space and in that space, the more space you create, the more power you have to

choose. So learning how to pause, and this is why I'm a big fan of breathwork, because it does create space of just breathing intentionally and consciously helps you pause before you just react to that trigger. And now with that space, you can thoughtfully respond and you can say, okay, I'm triggered. I'm emotionally heightened. I'm about to, you know, react with food or drugs or alcohol or sex or porn or whatever it is. And I know that's a form of self-sabotage. And then as you rewire your brain, you cast these new balance for this new identity, you

can start to thoughtfully respond in those situations instead of just being reactive. So people that struggle with addiction or people that struggle with just being reactive all the time, the ability to create space is going to be the key to success in the long run. So learning how to create space is going to be the key to success in the long run. So learning how to create space. And for you, for some people, you know, breath work works, meditation works, journaling works, getting out nature works, exercise works. There's some healthier coping mechanisms to create that space. But once you find what works for you, keep doing that.

And then cast those new ballots for this new identity and you get better at pausing. Your triggers don't ever go away, I don't think, but they become more manageable over time. It's like repetitions. Does that make sense? Yeah. So, and I think as you, as you develop more self-love or self-respect, you start to realize what you're worthy of. You start to realize, okay, I'm self-sabotaging again. I'm tired of self-sabotaging. I'm tired of, you know, choosing this path of feeling like a failure and, you know, throwing my physical health away

or my mental health away on purpose. As you become aware of that, you can start to realize your own self-worth and you're like, I'm worthy of so much more. I'm worthy as a dad or as a mom to take care of my physical health. I'm worthy as a business owner or employee or a sibling, whatever it is, whatever your purpose is,

I'm worthy to show up for myself, take care of my physical health, my mental health, because I'm a better version of me when I do that. And eventually you'll get tired of self-sabotaging. So it takes time, but that's kind of how I work with my clients nowadays, instead of just like, hey, here's your meal plan, here's your workouts, here's your supplements,

just do this and then it'll fix it. That's kind of my approach nowadays, which has evolved because of Fit2Fat2Fit 1.0 and Fit2Fat2Fit 2.0. Yeah. I always actually, I think this is one of the reasons I would have had such a hard time and why I immediately back out of fasting side of things

was because- I would have loved to see fat Anders though, that would have been awesome. I could see some of the milking phases to see where it would have gone. There was a fat Anders? 1998 was like January in the cross-fed season. I mean, your fat is to most people their dream body. Yeah. Let's be real. Your fat is to most people their dream body. Yeah. Yeah. Let's be real.

One of the pieces and I, you, you touched on this and that anytime things in my life start to feel chaotic, the very first thing that I do is like start counting macros. It's like the baseline of getting feeling right, getting control, finding like a, just like some place that I can go to where it's like, I know if I'm eating this every single day, I'm going to feel good. I probably need to lose five pounds just because mentally I'm chaotic and it's not planned.

But that is like layer one of like, you called it like self-respect, but I feel like a lot of times when you get into those chaotic times, that really is what it feels like is you're like, I'm just not respecting my body at all. And how do I get some homeopathy where I feel good, where I can like enter the world

and like just actually feel like a productive person that's capable of achieving like whatever that whatever the uh the status is that I I feel my own self-worth side of it. Um when you were turning your journey around did had you gotten to that place where you were like I know I'm doing this for an experiment but yeah your mindset also had changed. Yeah, that's a really good question. So my journey of transforming once I gained the 76 pounds the first time to then losing that weight was different because my homeostasis was similar to yours

or my programming was similar to yours where I knew how to, I had the discipline, I had the knowledge and the willpower to you know Go from eating cinnamon toast crunch and zingers and Mountain Dew every day to then eating, you know The whole real whole foods lots of protein vegetables things like that So for me it was different and that's why I want to be totally transparent about is I don't want to pretend to know What it's like for someone who grew up their entire life obese because it's not the same thing I was only overweight for six months. I had muscle memory, the knowledge, the discipline, the willpower as a trainer. But there was temptations, cravings, challenges, plateaus along the way that really humbled me as I lost the weight. Because I don't want to make

it sound like I just, oh, I got fat and then I got fit, boom, end of story. There were definitely some struggles in the weight loss journey side of things. But yes, I think part of that was my ability to have those things already programmed into me and that was my homeostasis, similar to you. And that's what I want to make a point is like, not everyone out there has made it a priority or has programmed their brain to deal with the stresses of life like the way that you and I have. And that's why I think empathy is so important to understand like, hey, my journey of getting to where I'm at is different than this person, how they've dealt with the stresses and

triggers of their life. And we've just been programmed differently because of our, you know, I would say our environments that we grew up in. And so that's kind of what's really important to me. So yes, I was able to use my, you know, knowledge and my discipline to get me back to fit both times. And luckily my body responded really well. Like I was able to lose the fat, you know, there's a little bit of loose skin that no one's really gonna notice except for me.

But at the end of the day, it was worth it because it totally changed my perspective and opened up, you know know my mind to just how complex transformation can be for the for humans because we're emotional creatures we're not robots I wish we were because it'd be so simple you know. To what degree was it kind of a linear process to lose the 76 did you lose 25 pounds and then there was two weeks where like you didn't lose any weight or you gained five pounds back and you're like oh shit this is harder than I thought it would be. Yeah, really good question. It was not linear

It was definitely there was definitely some plateaus the first month I did lose a lot because you I went from like 5,000 plus calories of Highly-presses junk food to 2,000 calories of like real whole food and the first month was pretty simple Like my body responded really well, but then after that That's where your body is this amazing machine that adapts and adjusts. So it figures out what you're doing. And then the progress and then change starts to slow down. I think month two through five is where a lot of people get stuck because the chain

you're fighting for minimal changes on the scale. Even though I as myself as a trainer knew I was following this protocol, I was following this meal plan, these workouts, it should be linear, but the human body is, is a little bit more complex than that. And there was definitely some weeks where I didn't lose any weight, even though I was following my macros and doing everything right. And there's other way, uh, other weeks where I lost inches, but not in, or I gained weight and I had no explanation on online

to explain that other than like, hey, like transformation is a journey. It's a process. It's not going to be perfect all the time. The goal or the key is to stay consistent through it all and lean into the discomfort, become comfortable being uncomfortable and realize that, you know, your current situation is not your final destination. So if you gain weight one week, it's not like, oh, I'm going to give up and just like sabba self sabotage and start eating the junk food again, which is I think sometimes what people do is they're like, I'm putting in all this effort. Where's the results? Why should I keep going? Right? Yeah. Don't you think it's important to have people go? They lose it is they put on the three pounds and then they just go,

oh, well what a waste of time. And then they're right back in that trigger. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is hard. Go ahead. I was going to say, don't you think it's important to have more than just weight loss as your goal?

Because like, if that's your only goal, it can lose your damn mind. Like, you know, but, but if you take like, you say Andy's like, was it mind. Like, you know, but, but if you take like, you say Andy's like, it was it like 11 physical, you know, physical fitness attributes and like concentrate on all of them. So even though you might've gained half a pound or whatever, you know, your movement is better, maybe got a little stronger, your power gone.

There's other things to look at that are important to health than just, even though that's very important. That's a good point. And I think the problem that I see is in the industry, it's all about weight loss. And if something is working, like we only show transformations of people's weight loss, right? And sometimes we'll do non-scale victories. This person is off their meds and those things, which are way more important than the scale weight. But for some reason our society is so fixated on scale weight as the end all be all of progress. And that's what's

so hard is I've worked with a lot of women, especially who to break and disrupt that pattern is so hard to do because it's been so ingrained in their brain that it's about weight loss as the end all be all. And it's just about unlearning that behavior and like learning a new behavior of like oh success isn't about weight loss success is about the whole picture it's a more holistic approach of my mental health you know blood markers other non-scale victories that you just mentioned trevis that i think are way overlooked but are just as important if not more important yeah no when i used to have more general pop people, which I don't anymore, nearly as many.

But one thing I did, especially with the women is give, you know, we started getting them competing in powerlifting. Now none of them are trying to be world champions. But all of a sudden they got so into that. And then they shifted their mindset to I want to get down to this weight class to perform. It was like the biggest shift in how they there was a I think right when I met you guys Doug, there was Lisa Gnevich was her name Lisa G. She was like, I've never had many girls that I would consider best friends, but she I consider one of my best friends. But she unfortunately,

she got like, it was, unfortunately she got lung. It was terrible. She got cancer and died, but I watched her go through a transformation. When she came to me, she was a nurse, RN, she's way overweight. She couldn't squat. I mean, literally she did an air squat and got in the bottom and fell over. She couldn't come up from an air squat. I got that lady down.

She was like, she was like 141. She was in the two hundreds down to 141 50. She could do snatch clean and jerk. She could, she could deliver over 300 pounds. I mean, she was a boss at a 40 some year old mother too. But it just giving her something else to think about other than just the dang scale. There you go.

There you go. And the stuff, I think that's where we're gonna have to like, you know, create a new approach to helping women realize that like, hey, it's not about being skinny and, you know, the number on the scale going down. Yes, that's part of the process. But I think there's so much there's so many healthier ways of of of transforming of measuring progress and transformation other than the skills. I'm glad that you guys brought that up. Yeah, big size, same size too, right?

There you go. Put that on a t-shirt, buddy. I would imagine a lot of this, you are currently going back to school for psychology. Yeah. That's awesome. I would imagine you also could have gone back for nutrition or exercise science or kind of like a host of other things that play into this transformation to think that you would go and do this twice and then be back in school for psychology that those are

mutually exclusive is not a real thing. Why was the like, psychology of it, the mindset side of it such the the or so much of the, like the piece of the puzzle that you dug into? Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's because of where this journey has led me like I've realized with my clients over the years, it's I've slowly turned into more of a therapist role where, you know, the beginning was so focused on the physical side of weight loss, right? Their macros, their

calories, their workout, their supplements, all the physical things that are a big piece of the puzzle when it comes to success and transformation. What I was missing and I didn't realize it at the time, I wasn't as aware, is the mental and emotional side of transformation. Because like I said, humans are emotional creatures. They're not these robots.

And so it didn't always work out. I'm like, why don't you just follow the meal plan? And they didn't realize why their, you know, their relationships and the stresses of their relationships or their kids or their jobs or finances or whatever it is, the stresses of the modern world create these triggers that they just don't know how to overcome. And so I couldn't really deal with or help people with the psychological side. And so over the years, it's kind of, I was becoming this therapist where I started to dive into the mental and emotional side,

which also has to do with my own personal journey. And I won't get into that too much other than just mentioning going through a divorce, leaving my religion, which I did, like I mentioned, I grew up Mormon, left that religion, left my marriage and went, hit this rock bottom, and started to dive into the world of therapy, personal development, self-help,

all those tools that I didn't acknowledge before, think I needed, and that kind of really opened up my eyes to this world of inner healing. So working out, but also working in, and dealing with doing the inner work at the same time as you're doing the outer work. And that's kind of what really opened my eyes to like, oh, this is why transformation is so hard for people. And so all of that combined together led to this path of like, I pulled the trigger a couple months ago to

go back to school full time to get my master's in psychology, step away from fit to fat to fit as my full-time gig. And that opened up the door for more opportunities, which honestly has led me to you guys. So I know that people that follow you know about rapid health optimization and just so happened that this path of this new journey of going back to school, getting or looking for new jobs, led me to you guys. And that's why we're here today on this podcast. But for me, I'm so interested now in why people are the way they are. And it's totally shifted my perception of how I look at people through that lens of like, okay, what happened to you? I want

to know your story. Because Brené Brown, I love her books, but she says something that's really important that says, it's really hard to hate someone up close. Meaning it's so easy to judge and hate someone if you see, you know, a hat that they wear or a political statement that they make and we put them into a box, label them. For me, I don't like to look at people that way because it dehumanizes them where I don't really get to know their story of why they are the way they are. And this journey of going into psychology really helps me to look at people through that lens of like, man, what happened to you? Like, why are you so angry today? It's like, I know you're projecting your anger onto me, but what is it about your life

that's making you project that anger onto me? And so anyways, all these things that really open my eyes to how important the psychological side of transformation is. And that's what I want to dive into. Take the knowledge that I have from nutrition and exercise and supplementation and all the stuff that you talked about and bring those two worlds together. That's kind of what I want to do. I think about that every time someone honks at me and they have road rage. Buddy, I don't know what you got going on, but I'm not there. Yeah, I'll pull over. Yeah, I just do. Yeah. I'll pull over. Yeah. Whatever. Don't shoot me. Yeah, there you go.

But you know, it's funny, when I was going back to school and I took, you know, we had to take support psych as part of the master's program. OK. I went into that with such a negative, you know, I was like, this is a real science. It's like this is like so arbitrary, it's subjective. You know, who is Freud? He was crazy. He was on cocaine.

What does he, you know, it's so- It was very interesting. It was very interesting. And like, but I left that realizing that I lacked the most as a coach in that area. It's like, you know, everything we would go over, I'd be like, oh my God, I have so much room to grow in this area of being's like, you know, everything we would go over, I'd be like, Oh my God, I have so much room to grow in this area of being able to, you know, if, if certain athletes

connected with me, they, you know, the, and as you can see, they'll be with me forever. Like I had that type of, but there's certain athletes I could never get through to. And I'm pretty confident had I known a few other skills like it, maybe we wouldn't have been perfect together. But I think I could have made their experience with me better and like maybe giving them a whole different outlook, not just on weightlifting, but on fitness. And maybe they would have enjoyed their time in weightlifting more had I known.

But that's interesting you say that. Yeah, it's interesting you say that one last quote because I've quoted so many people but Teddy Roosevelt had a good quote He says no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care And I think for me as a coach people that are doctors any kind of coach out there I think that is so important to understand that if you don't know how to connect with people on a deeper level, a lot of them don't really care how much knowledge you have or like care that you're this expert in this field because that doesn't really connect with them or speak to them and so knowing how to connect with people and letting them know that you care about them and

that's why I think empathy is so important in the fitness industry because you know you don't know what you don't know so if you don't know how to connect with people, it's nothing against you, it's just that's just where your journey's at know so if you don't know how to connect with people it's nothing against you it's just that's just where your journey's at right now but if you can learn how to connect with people and let them know that you actually care about them then they're gonna be like oh I'm actually gonna listen to this guy because he actually I actually feel like he cares about me and that's kind of what my brand Fit to Fit to Fit has evolved into and that's kind of why I'm kind of in this world of more of a conscious

approach to fitness instead of just fitness and just like doing it the way we've been doing it the past like, you know, four or five decades. Yeah, I actually want to dig in, man, you're on our team now, which is super cool. Yes. I want to, you know, in this transition,

I think that there isn't a fitness trainer in the world whose first job isn't to get people to lose weight. And then over time, you kind of start to grow out of that. Maybe that is like at the core responsibility for many of your clients, but you're kind of chasing something more. I'd love to hear just kind of the journey in where you are in reaching out and wanting to be a part of this team,

but also like what drew you to the program and being here. Yeah, and it has to do with that quote that I just mentioned of no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And that's where I love rapid is you guys, your approach to transformation is so in depth on so many, in so many ways, right? The physical side, you guys got that nailed down, but the science, the lab work you guys

do, how extensive that is, that right there is so much more than just like a cookie cutter meal plan, workout program and supplementation protocol. Like Dr. Andy Galpin and Dan Garner and the team that you guys have at Rapid Health is superb and phenomenal. But the thing that really sold me on it was the behavioral side, like the cognitive behavioral therapy approach, if you will, with having these behavioral coaches as part of the routine instead of like, hey, here's your sleep coach, here's your nutrition coach, here's your exercise coach. All that's good. But I love the fact that you guys have these behavioral coaches as well to help your clients understand themselves on a deeper level, more psychological level,

so they can understand like, okay, why do I struggle with food or why can't I stay consistent in the gym and how can I regulate my nervous system so I'm not triggered all the time? Because a lot of these performers that you guys deal with, whether they're high level executives or Olympic athletes, for them to understand their emotional side is just know, for them to understand their emotional side is just as important as them to understand the physical side. And that's what I love, this more holistic approach with rapid health. That's what really sold me on being a part of your team.

And that's why I'm so excited. It's because that's kind of similar to my approach, although I didn't have the knowledge, you know, like Dr. Andy has, of course, on the physical side, but to bring those two worlds together is magic. And I think that's why you guys can charge what you charge for your services. I wish that we had this company when you were doing Fit to Fit to Fit, because how rad would it have been?

Yes. What was the movie Super Size Me? Or he was like basic blood work and they were like 30 days into it, like man, McDonald's is really gonna kill you, you have to stop this. And I actually wonder anytime I'm watching a movie, how much was that like played up for the movie, or was he about to die 30 days later? But he also gained 60 plus pounds.

Like he was probably in like the 20 pound weight gain in a month, which is absurd, but he was probably in like the 20 pound weight gain in a month, which is absurd, but it was nearly as extreme as you were to actually see just what your labs looked like. Um, and then I know like six months after the journey going and losing another 60 pounds. Uh, and then even doing it after 40 to see like, kind of like the aging side of it and gaining and losing the weight again. It would have been wild to have like, you know, a decade of blood work just to see how bad it really gets.

Yeah. Blood, urine, hair, stool, saliva like we do here. But did you did you do any pre and post testing? Do you have any objective markers to go along with before and after? Yeah, I did do blood work on during both my journeys. The second journey was a little bit more extensive, but like, just to give a brief overview of like what I remember as the most drastic changes was my first journey, my blood pressure at its highest was 167 over 113. That's not good. My testosterone was 210, 220 when I was at my heaviest, which was not a good number, very, very low. Um, and then of course all my lipids were, you know, in the red. But here's what's interesting is that all that happened again on my second

journey, by the way, was my ability to, um, you know, bounce back pretty quickly because of my homeostasis and because of how long I've been in shape for. Everything went back into the green. I would say within a few months of eating healthy and exercising again. The second time though, what was interesting was having these new healthier coping mechanisms like meditation and breathwork implemented into my journey, which made a big difference

with my ability to stay more consistent instead of just using willpower like I did the first time. I was able to use these other healthier coping strategies, which I think is important for any client that's looking to transform, is how can you learn how to regulate your nervous system? What works for you? Is it walking out in nature? Is it going for a run?

Is it swimming? Is it dancing? Is works for you? Is it walking out in nature? Is it going for a run? Is it swimming? Is it dancing? Is it, you know, breath work? Is it meditation? Is it like hanging out with friends or therapy or journaling, whatever it is. Figuring out those healthier coping mechanisms, that made a big difference as well.

On top of, you know, I did keto intermittent fasting the second time, which I think also helped me at my age of 40 when I did it. Now, don't't knock on wood. I'm knocking on wood right now. Anders said this, cause you mentioned this, hopefully you're not manifesting this happens again when I turned 50, 50 to 50, that would be, I have no intentions of doing that.

Let me just say that. So I'm going to throw that out there. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a good point. Like you lost all this weight when you were 40, you didn't, you didn't do this when you were 25 and then you're, you know, you're in your late 20s, you're 26 or whatever and you're losing weight and everyone's like, well, yeah, you're still in your 20s. So no shit.

Yeah. Like, but you did it when you were 40. That was the second time, right? Because you're 45 now? Yeah, 31 the first time and then 40 the second time. I'm 44. I'll be 45 in December. So yeah, I don't plan on doing it again. I

don't perceive myself doing it. But from a scientific perspective, I think that like, I see where Anders head is going with that. That would be cool to like have the types of testing that you guys do and like, you know, really dive into the science behind it. Because I think it is interesting to kind of show not just like, because of course, like the weight gaining process I'll be honest with you. That's what gets the most clicks The most engagement is watching this super fit guy become obese, but I love the scientific approach to it Which I did not have, you know, the the types of testing that you guys do. So

We'll see I might have to clone myself AI is coming out soon There'll be a clone of me some at some point we can do some experiments on AI is coming out soon. There'll be a clone of me at some point that we can do some experiments on. I'd love to know kind of the long, maybe like the best transformation, also kind of understanding like what the success rate on, how long did these things stick around? I think the biggest loser is kind of comes up and the the long game of that one and we know some of those trainers, they're awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I tried really, really hard. We love them. Yeah. I want to say hi to some of them if they were if they were here. I'd totally hang out with them. But they you're in environmentally,

you're in a place where losing weight is very easy for those people. And then you have to go home. Yeah, it's very, very true. Things get tough. I'd love to hear just kind of like, what were some of the best success stories you had? Do you follow up with any of the people from the show or anything? Yeah, from the show, you know, obviously, most people from the show, the clients that were on the show, because there's the trainers that gained the weight, from the show, you know, I would say most people from the show, the clients that

were on the show, because there's the trainers that gained the weight, then lost the weight. All those trainers went back to fit and stayed fit. None of them stayed overweight. But the clients, I do know that there's a few that have maintained their transformations. But you have to understand the way the TV show wasn't this holistic approach. It was about weight loss. It was a TV show and it did, you know, when TV show happens, it's the TV gods that are in control and it's all about, you know, how to get more clicks and more, you know, views

when it comes to each episode. So it's all dramatic and crazy. They don't really, they didn't really care the the mental and emotional approach to be honest with you Because that's not sexy if I sell a 30-day, you know Shredded abs program that's gonna sell way more than 30 days like love yourself a program as a dude Just because that's the way that's what like what sells right? So But where I'm at now with my clients is a lot of people think, okay, success is keeping the weight off.

For me, it's like a therapist approach where they don't need therapy anymore, they don't need a coach anymore. They're able to self-regulate, they're able to understand themselves on a deeper level so that well, the next time they're triggered, they're not just reactive and, you know, creating, or they're able to cast these new balance for this new identity like we talked about earlier. And I think that for me is really the key to success, whether their weight goes up or down throughout the years, it's about them becoming

self-aware, developing some self-respect. And at the end of the day, having that self love, which I think in the long term, if you love yourself, if you respect yourself, you're going to show up for yourself and that includes physical health, mental health, emotional health, spiritual health, where you start self-sabotaging. You create that space between stimulus and response, and you start showing up for yourself in a way that looks different,

where you're like, I'm gonna take care of my physical health today. I'm gonna take care of my sleep, manage my stress, eat my food that I know is good for me, because I deserve those things. And you stop those patterns and behaviors of self-sabotage or addiction. And I think that's really the long-term success that every client, you know, should, it deserves

to have. But I think it's a lifelong battle dealing with those patterns and behaviors that are so hard to overcome. But it's having the tools to and healthier coping mechanisms. That for me is success. It's someone's ability to then then use these new tools or coping mechanisms instead of the old ones that no longer serve them, if that makes sense. I love it, man. Now that you're here, where can people find online to reach out? And then just a little bit about what you're doing here. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm still, I still have my social media accounts, Fit to Fit to Fit, they're all out there. I'm just not as active on them. And then I think we can put a link in the show notes for rapidhealthoptimization.com, forward slash Drew. If people want to book a call with me to understand more about this holistic approach that we've created with rapid health optimization. But yeah, you can reach out to me at Fit to Fit to Fit

with the number two. And yeah, I'm I love connecting with people. So feel free to reach out still even though I'm not 100% on social media. There you go. Coach Travis Mash, buddy. I just want to say. I know I'm good now. You need a whole show to go over your life for the last six weeks. It has been awesome. I the the most of the strength and conditioning programs in America. And I said a holistic approach. I feel like, you know, with our athletes, we're always talking about, you know, programming, technique, oh, weightlifting, powerlifting. Honestly, that's all such bullshit,

because it really, if you wanna create better athletes, you need to get in their brain. How are they sleeping? What's their lifestyle? You know, are they mentally healthy? Are they having a good time? There's so many other things. They're so much more important than the bullshit we argue about online. So this was a good show. I love that. Thanks, Travis. To that point, I feel like anytime you're watching a sports documentary or like real interviews with coaches and athletes and things along those lines.

I think that the interesting thing that I hear more than like we have great practices and our strength coach is great and our nutritionist is great. It's like the coach knows my parents. The coach, knows what's going on in my life. And I think that those pieces of like the trust side are the pieces where that player and I didn't play very high level sports, but like I remember my coaches in high school and stuff like talking to my parents, knowing when they were traveling up and like that's what really makes like a 21 year old super athletes, super freak want to run through a wall for you and actually be willing to go take their body to that level.

Amen. That piece of it really is, I think getting talked about significantly more. Like, I'm going to pump your tires, buddy. I think that's why so many people love you coaching them. Like you pick them up when they're like 11 years old and next thing you know, you have 25 year olds that are still around you, still coaching underneath you. Like it's crazy. That was part of what made it so good this weekend because I had so many of them around

me and they were just in like to see Ryan go from this little boy to see him. the like, I was strong again. I was 550, 550 squat and deadlift. I haven't even back squatted in a decade. And just jumped in and squatted 550. It was a great time. Oh, yeah. Oh, Travis, where are the people to find you? Nationality.com. Yeah, man. There you go.

Douglas E. Larson. Yeah, you bet. Douglas E. Larson. Yeah, you bet. That actually was what I've said this on the show many times, but that was one of the first perceptions I had of you, Travis. When I first met you many years ago, I was like, man, I have to fucking really cares about his athletes. Like a lot of people say it, but he really does.

You always had a great connection with your athletes. I really admire that about you. I love my boys and my girls. I only have like really one girl right now I'm coaching, but I love my boys and my girl. Nice. have like really one girl right now. I'm coaching, but I love my boys and my girl Ruby. There you go. Yeah. And I've been on personal note for myself. Like my strength coach that I met when I was 14 is still one of my

like closest friends to this day. Like actually he is like the longest standing close friend that I have Andy's number two, but but Mark is his number one. I met him when I was 14 man and the reason that I hung out with that dude and I'm still friends with him to this day is because I knew him when I was 14, man. And the reason that I hung out with that dude, and I'm still friends to this day is because I knew that dude fucking actually cared about me. And do anything for me. So I'm in this industry because of that man. 100%

Yo, Drew, dude, I feel like through all those experiences, like you just have such a mature and professional perspective on the whole world of health and fitness. Uh, and just like I said, I'm travel psyched and I just really, uh, to use the same word, I really admire that about you and have a lot of respect for you. So I'm stoked that you're on the team. Uh, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me guys.

Yeah. Yep. And appreciate you being on the show. I really appreciate that. Even if we met and did the show and business and all the things together, that you let me know that I did have body dysmorphia, even though I would not have fully digested before. Like I can't go and do it.

I have to maintain this version of myself. And then just for you Drew, we Photoshopped Anders' face onto Fat Bastard. I'm gonna send it your way. Good story. So that's what he would look like. There you go. I'm Anders Varder, Anders Varder and we barbell shrugged, the barbell underscore shrugged.

Make sure you get over to rapidhealthreport.com where Dr. Andy Gallup, Andy Gallup and Dan Garner are doing a free lab lifestyle and performance analysis and you can access that free report at rapidhealthreport.com. Friends, see you guys next week.