Barbell Shrugged - Focus on Outcome and Not Exercises with Spencer Arnold - The Barbell Life

Episode Date: September 22, 2019

Spencer Arnold is an Olympic Weightlifting coach for the top weightlifters on Team USA including 2016 Olympian Morghan King.   Spencer Arnold on Instagram   Travis Mash on Instagram -------------------------------------------- Please Support Our Sponsors Savage Barbell Apparel - Save 25% on your first order using the code “BARLIFE”   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged --------------------------------------------- Join the One Ton Challenge    Registration is LIVE   12 Month Strength training program to increase your snatch, clean, jerk, squat, dead, bench.    Add them up to find your One Ton Total.    The goal is 2,000 pounds for men and 1,200 for women.    http://onetonchallenge.com/join   “What is the One Ton Challenge”   “How Strong is Strong Enough”   “How do I Start the One Ton Challenge”   --------------------------------------------------- Show notes: https://shruggedcollective.com/tbl-arnold ---------------------------------------------------     ► Travel thru Europe with us on the  Shrugged Voyage, more info here: https://www.theshruggedvoyage.com/ ► What is the Shrugged Collective?  Click below for more info: https://youtu.be/iUELlwmn57o ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Truck family, I am in Houston International Airport. I just wrapped the One Ton Challenge at the grand opening for CrossFit Revoke here in Houston. And it was so awesome. We had our friends over at Savage Barbell sponsoring, giving t-shirts, giving swag to the winners. FitAid showed up with a whole bunch of delicious, delicious FidAids. RX FidAids, FidAid Zeros, FidAid RX Zeros. Just love how the One Ton Challenge is bringing these super awesome companies or super awesome companies to really cool people

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Love hanging out with them. They've been with us for a couple years now. And I just love their products. The green, the red, and the gold drinks. I talk about them every week. If you get over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged, you can save 20% on all of their products. Been using it for like two years now. I really get a lot of benefit out of the green.

It's a great product just because I'm on the road a lot and I don't get a ton of vegetables. So the ability to have a really good resource is very cool. So Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. And then, of course, make sure you hook up our friends over at Savage Barbell. Savagebarbell.com forward slash shrugged. Use the coupon code shrugged to save 25%. Spencer Arnold on the Barbell Life

today and it's a fantastic show. Travis Mash is the man. So many interesting things going on in his life right now. Spencer Arnold is just super OG in the game and has a ton of information on getting strong.

And he teaches more, or he coaches more than King Olympian. Badass. Enjoy the show. Friends. You're listening to the barbell life. on this episode we talked to our good friend and weightlifting coach extraordinaire spencer arnold now chavez and spencer recently spent some time together and they got to discussing the differences between the weightlifting world and the strength and conditioning world and they just knew they had to break it down for all of you on this podcast

so stay tuned but before we get to that we just wanted to give a huge thank you to you thank you thank you for listening thank you for reading the mash elite material on the blog for following us on social media watching us on youtube supporting us if you happen to get any of our e-books or our coaching. When we take a step back, you are the reason that we're doing this. So if you have a moment, just send us an email at info at mashalete.com. Let us know what you'd like us to talk about on these podcasts, what guests you want us to have on, what you'd like us to cover, and what we can do just to make this as good as possible for you. And now, I'm Loren Penelis with Rebecca Tilson and Travis Mash as we talk with Spencer Arnold.

Hey guys, welcome back. And the first thing we're going to do today is we're going to welcome to the mic the guy that's behind the camera. Charles Joseph IV. Charles Joseph Penel IV. Or we call him CJ IV. What's up, CJ? Hey, how's it going?

He's sitting here. He's so embarrassed. He doesn't want to be on the mic. Man, dude, he's so unassuming. I mean, how tall are you? 6'3". 6'3". What do you weigh?

Like 225. You know, so 6'3", athletic build, and then the dude pulls 650. Deadlift 650. And I remember him from the strength spectacular we did back in 2015. I was doing the powerlifting announcing, and I saw his squat. For being a tall guy, he has the prettiest squat. Like when he was squatting, Kevin Nason was judging it. And Kevin looked at me and was like, that is a deep squat.

That's right. That's because I'm his coach. That's right. Darn right. CJ Finley. Anyway, on the other mic, my not the white sheep of weightlifting. Yeah, baby. Spencer Arnold.

What's that? I'll take that. That's a good nickname. I'll take that. Yeah, you are definitely the white. I don't know how. I mean, you do hang out with me at every meet. I don't know why people don't label you as well. Why does it got to be a sheep? Why couldn't it be like, you got to come up with like the white lion don't know how i mean you do hang out with me at every meet i don't know why people don't label you as well why's it gotta be a sheep why couldn't it be like you gotta come

with like the white lion or something wasn't that a boxer i don't know man the white the white white lion i mean i'll take white lion that's cool black lion yeah i'll take anything as long as it's not uh well that was almost a terrible um yeah easy um yeah i'll take anything as long as it's not at well that was almost a terrible um yeah easy um yeah i'll stick anything as long as it says i can keep my nose clean i don't know how he does he's he's really good at i'm not really good at that like i'm not very politically correct ever so like well were you planning on talking dirt today were we going to talk about juicy i mean i think it's going to be the truth you know so like uh so see what we can get a spitzer to say that might incriminate him so i'm going to try to

pick my questions like truth or dare like have you i want to bring you down with me i don't want to go by myself that's like misery loves company though exactly you got such a good friend all right down it down if that if you're down travis that's a that's a good place to be. I'll take that. All right, cool. You're a man of conviction. That's right. So, Travis, what is on your mind? What are we going to be talking about? All right, so Spencer, a month or two ago, came for a visit.

We had the best day. We went to – started at Wake Forest. We went to Coach Horgan, who's the head swimming and conditioning coach for the football team. Then we went to Ryan Horn, which I didn't know at the time, but evidently Ryan knew me, but was blown away by how smart this guy is. Ryan, he's been on our show. Yeah, we've had both of Horgan and Horn.

Yeah, but Ryan is actually the head strength and conditioning coach for basketball. As you guys, if you listen to the show regularly, you already know. Then we finished the day down at the Carolina Panthers with my man, big house coach Joe Kinn, head strength coach for the Carolina Panthers. And the whole day was filled of just like sharing with each other and like learning from each other.

It was so good. I mean, my whole program is different because of that day. Oh, yeah. I learned from that day. Every time, though, I'm around, like, Coach Ken, you know, something changes. Coach Ken is much more like, you know, I'll go heavy in a minute. Like, what is it?

Spitzer always calls me, like, green light. Green light, Travis. Yeah. Green light, Travis. He's on green light. Doesn't matter. Give him the green light. Coach Ken is, you know, much more reserved, you know,

thinking long-term. Obviously, you know, his athletes are – they have a million-dollar price tag. A lot riding on those guys. Right. So, if he hurts them, like, you know, thinking long-term. Obviously, you know, his athletes are – they have a million-dollar price tag. Yeah, he's got a lot riding on those guys. Right. So if he hurts them, like, you know, he's fine. But, you know, I always learn from him. But, like, Ryan Horne blew me away. And we just – we walked in, and number one, Ryan was, you know,

Coach Horne, I guess you'd say. He, you know, welcomed us with open arms. And then we sat down literally for three hours and just talked. In his weight room, right in the middle of the weight room. Right in the middle. It was awesome. It was awesome. And we just kicked around ideas, you know.

He's all about this velocity-based training, which so is Spencer, you know. So, you know, what are some of the highlights you learned from that day? So, for me, it was really cool to meet a college strength coach who was not only working with just one sport, but just like just the men of that sport. And to see like how he how he implements like he'll pick up a new trick and then find a way to implement it into his program so that it doesn't change the principles of his program, but just gives him a better way to measure whether he's being successful so i i think i mean i have it written i'm in my office right now at the school i have it written right here in front of me it says be intent driven over exercise driven and he said that that day i don't know if you remember it that like everything he does is for the intention of a desired outcome rather than really designed around an exercise yeah and do and and i mean it's clear look i mean look at a weight room everywhere you look there's

like a hundred like a bunch of little different things that he uses to accomplish a certain intent it's i mean i it's changed everything how it's crazy it's crazy i know i mean i do um well we're about to get into like you know hopefully changing the culture some other things but that day definitely blew me away about the cool thing about Kurt Warren was that he definitely believes in the basics like some movement, some power movements

get strong stay mobile so he's all about the bare bones but then he takes all the bare bones stuff to a whole new level by monitoring velocity curves. What is that flywheel thing that he had? You can talk more about that. That was my first day of even knowing those things existed.

It's called a K-wheel, and it's a flywheel box that has an attachment. You can attach a harness or a handle and basically the harder you exert force eccentrically i guess it really depends on exercise the harder you reverse force invert exert force going upward away from the flywheel right the fat like more force it creates to pull the handle back down so if i yank hard like on an rdl it's gonna come yanking me back down and i have to brace it he loves like talking about eccentric bracing and and how that that is such a good developer for for strong tensile strong tendons and strong ligaments and how he uses it in his base program for his freshmen and i was like i gotta get one and then i looked up the price i was like i don't

have to get one how much are those things they're like 3600 bucks but they're in europe so you got to ship them. So it's not worth just getting one. You've got to go ahead and buy like four or five. So now you're talking about $13,000, $14,000 plus shipping. Yeah, exactly. But you said you were going to try to build one. Yeah, so I've got a mechanic friend of mine messing with one.

We haven't nailed it down. The thing that I'm worried about is if you get a flywheel that can do the right kind of force you've got a the structure around it has to be pretty substantial and so we almost say we're messing with it now we got we think we're gonna have to do metal i was gonna try and do wood and i think the wood the wood's gonna break under the pressure that's a lot especially like you know some of your like you know stronger olympic athletes exactly yeah so if i have i have a strong like you know some of your like you know stronger olympic athletes exactly yeah so if i have i have a strong like you know relatively heavy guy who yanks on that thing and creates that kind of force going upward that same force is going downward and so if you're not putting it in a structure

to support that force it's going to crack underneath you so what would you use that for practically like kind of an isometric exactly yeah exactly well not eccentric i would do eccentric bracing so in a in a off-season like hypertrophy phase with some of my athletes when really the emphasis is on like slower kind of slower tempo work when i'm really building their base i would use it there for for all kinds of different exercises remember the number one mechanism one not the number one one of the three top mechanisms for mechanisms for hypertrophy is the muscle damage. And so when you do that, when you really say you do a deadlift or RDL, especially did a lot of RDLs with it, like it yanks you back. So like that eccentric force is like sometimes tripled, you know. So like that, those ligaments, tendons and the muscle bellies are being damaged in a healthy way.

And if you give them like a very select – like, hey, I want you to take six seconds to get back to your original start position. So you've got to brace, triple the force at six seconds. Oh, my gosh, dude. You can only do three reps. Like forget having to do 20 reps to accomplish classic hypertrophy. I'm going to do it with a tempo on a flywheel and do it in three reps. Half a load. I mean it's so much better for the body.

Same effect without all the impact. I got to see a picture. That's what I would do. I'll take you over there. It's at Wake Forest. Oh, it's at Wake. Yeah, it's Coach Ryan Horne. So Greg is just now joining us.

He's late as usual. As usual? I'm just kidding. For the first time ever as usual. As usual. I'm just kidding. The first time ever. Yeah. I know. I'm just, I had to do that.

Now I have all these velocity machines now that I get to use. Cause I went, I went, I did go and buy some of those. And so we're using those on our weight room now because of him. And, um, you know,

he's at, he's been great. The best part, and we'll talk about this. I'm sure the best part is like when I have a question, I text him and I get an answer like within 24 hours he's so cool it's crazy so you're talking about you have some tindo you're like those things are at they're kind of like tindo units where they monitor like forces their gym aware their gym aware

unit so they can they Bluetooth to an iPad and I can check I can track height of the barbell peak force mean force peak velocity um you know peak velocity i can track and it records all this for me and then and i have all the data so i can i can load a workout in and hit start my my kids will run it by themselves now so they'll start their workout with this thing connected to the bar and so for instance right now i've got kids doing um accumulation phase and so they're doing sets of 10, and all of their reps have to be above a certain mean velocity in the squat. They're looking at this thing every time they squat.

And if they don't, you're going to see the data later. I'm actually about to publish a study that I'm accumulating rep count for for you that I think will be really awesome and make a lot of weightlifters mad awesome i'm not gonna agree with you so i can like you know i'm trying to flip the script with us so i'll be the one you won't be able to disagree with it it's all numbers i know man i don't have it in me to be like yeah like some of these other so see right there i did it you heard me just call people it's basically my like my chance to finally with substantive information attack all those um i'm gonna say weak-minded weightlifters who like to use straps yes so i mean i totally agree with the

whole strap i mean only time i would use straps is when the hands become you know damaged but other than that like i've got 10 athletes right now i've got to get to 20 and all 10 of them showed the same results that if i do a pull with straps versus a pull without straps i'm losing anywhere between 0.05 to 0.14 meters per second in velocity really wow you know you think that's a pull forget forget the real lift that's a pull you think it has to do with the fact that like you know there's so many nerve endings in the hand i mean i think there's a ton of nerve endings in the hand i also think that when we know this connected to my hand yeah that like it's going to yank me back down so we slow up at the top end almost like walking around barefoot i would think think. Yeah. So why use freaking straps?

Use your hands that God gave you. Put them around the bar and pull the daggum bar. I'm with you. I never use straps. But I did lift at 815 with a hook grip. Yeah, there you go. Well, I always use straps. And when I pull, and now I never use them.

I've got all this data. And so I've got to get really 20 or 25 different athletes with different, you know, with some experience in the weightlifting to be able to really say something. But I'm coming down the road. I've also measured the snatch and the clean. Like, does it change my velocity in the snatch and the clean as well? So I'm going to just publish all those numbers.

I would say that there would be one time to use it. You know, like if your hands are getting beat up, though, because your body, you know, your body, when your hands get destroyed, it perceives that as you being beat up because of the nerve endings. So like, you know, either take, you know, number one, I would take care of my hands. But, you know, they start to get, you know, split. You didn't need to use. Oh, yeah. And use stress.

Yeah. I prefer 95 percent of the time. Don't use straps is what I would say. I just know a lot of guys that hit new PRs in the gym and they're so excited or gosh man, I had a really good workout. That's great. You never used your hands. That's awesome. How's that going to relate to the platform?

Yeah. A lot of times as you and I both know, it does not relate to the platform. That's off left field. I didn't mean to get us off track. No, that's good. What we're i didn't mean to get us off track no it's good so um i you know what we're trying to get at i wanted him to explain is like the culture of strength conditioning is one of each each coach sharing information you go to i've never been to a strength coach where they did not share you know anything i wanted to know you know like

when i got to know charles pulligan you know after we we, you know, he's a little bit cocky, but so was I back then. But, like, once we got through, you know, past each other's egos, we became good buddies. He told me anything I wanted to know, you know. When I met Louie Simmons, he's continually told me anything I've ever asked, you know, wanted to know from him. You know, Coach Ken, once we became friends, that dude has given me, I mean, I can never repay him in a lifetime, what Coach Ken, once we became friends, that dude has given me...

I can never repay him in a lifetime what Coach Ken has given me. But the culture is like that. I was listening to a podcast with Mike Robertson. He was talking about... I don't remember who he was talking about, but it's somebody

I should know their name, and I'm going to be really criticized for not knowing this person's name. But he was talking about, but it's somebody I should know their name. And I'm going to be really, really criticized for not knowing this person's name. But he was talking about how he just like he just like went and visited some of the best strength coaches in the world. He mentioned Louie as one of them. And the guys like not only were like open the doors, come on in. And the reason he said it was Rob Oshinsky. That's what it was. He was talking about Rob O Shinsky about single leg stuff. But he he was talking about how, like, not only these guys open their doors to him, that like he thought in his head, he was like, man, these guys near these guys, and they just absorb everything. And he's like, not only do they just open with open arms,

but they're more willing to follow up with me if I have thoughts down the road than he was talking about. I mean, he just listed coach after coach after coach that he would go to, and they would just welcome him with open arms. That's the way it is, man. Even like Pavel, you know, like everyone knows him as the expert in kettlebells. That dude was willing to certify me. It's a $5,000 certification for free if I wanted to come,

just because we became friends. Oh, for RKC stuff? Oh, cool. Yeah, I know. I should have gone. Anyway, that's one of the ones I should have gone. But anyway, I love that dude. But he's always at my back anytime I wanted to know anything.

Lauren Seagraves, the guy who developed Velocity Sports. Martin Rooney. Anytime I've ever asked those dudes anything, they've always given me more than I asked for. Donnie Thompson. Donnie Thompson now is like, he's Mr. Entrepreneur. That's so funny. I definitely am on our show

eventually, but this guy, speaking of Donnie Thompson, is a guy who, talk about a guy who immersed himself in his sport, but his gym was in his house. All he cared about was powerlifting. Like every other week, his lights were getting turned off for not paying, you know, his electric bill.

And now he's like making all this money from Rogue because he invented the- Ex-wife? No. The fat pad? The fat pad, those bells, you know, the- Yeah, yeah. The new kettlebell,, you know, the new kettlebell. It's Donnie Thompson's new kettlebell.

Fat bell? Fat bell, that's right. And now he's got the body tempering. I mean, the dude is everywhere. Was he the ex-wife guy? Yeah, he's the ex-wife guy. So he's everywhere, but yet if I message Donnie Thompson and say, Donnie, tell me about body tempering, he'll send me a 10-page report on why it's awesome.

You did the same thing. It's crazy. You and I can list people after people. Carmen Bott, who I've never met face-to-face ever. I heard on a podcast she was talking about a critical power test she used on some of her wrestlers. I emailed her. She sent me the critical power test within 24

hours. We could talk about Matt Shadid, who is now the head strength coach for Baylor women's sent me the critical power test within 24 hours you could talk i mean we could talk about matt shadid who is now the head strength coach for baylor basketball women's basketball but what is like an up-and-coming stud of a dude stud one of the smartest dudes i know a buddy of mine who knows him emailed him he said yeah y'all come out whenever you want let's and come see the program i mean it's like one after another these guys just open their doors to to to guys like me who they have nobody i'm a nobody to nobody for them and i don't benefit them one bit and they just open their doors and their programs which is crazy crazy because i grew up in a system that that that wasn't always the case

and so like yeah for me like it's it's really as my because you know travis sort of knows this but i i didn't grow up in the strength and conditioning world per se like with some of the guys you guys are named. Most of my strength coaches and the coaches that impacted me were strength coaches, but they were Olympic lifters first or they were Olympic-minded. And so I sort of ran around in an Olympic lifting world. And then as my – so that started to open up, man, I was like, man, these people are willing to give me the shirt off their back and they don't know me from Adam. It's crazy. So now let's flip the script.

Yeah. You were talking earlier, Travis, that the weightlifting world. No, I don't know how it used to be. I know I've been immersed in weightlifting now since about 2013 is when I really made my comeback into coaching in the sport and I've watched every single year it get more and more like what we're about to talk about but

say at the back room of the Nationals this past Nationals I've never been in a back room where coaches were more at odds with one another it went from being like man you go to a powerlifting meet, like, if I saw my competitor, if I could teach him something that might help him,

I would have helped him. But not so much in a way that there was no, you know, no pounding in the back, no jokes, no smiling and laughing. It was super serious, trying to beat each other, which, hey, I'm all about trying to win. I'm trying to want Madley to win, but it's just different. I couldn't imagine going to one of the other national coaches

and be like, hey, tell me about your program. So-and-so is doing well. They're beating Madley. Could you help me? I can't even imagine doing that because I just don't feel that being opened up. And it's not just the back room. That's kind of the symptom of the deeper issue,

which is that even outside of the back room, there's just a spirit of generosity. There's not a spirit of generosity like there is in a strict condition world. Why do you think that is? That's the whole point of this podcast. I would like to know. Spencer, you've been in the world

For a lot longer and a lot longer stretch of time Why do you think this is Well and I think there's It's funny because I don't know I've seen I guess I've been around Really good coaches So I mean like Stan Luttrell is a great example

That dude would have given me anything He has he's given me everything And so like that's a Shout out to you I love Stan Luttrell is a great example. That dude would have given me anything. I mean, he has. He's given me everything. And so that's a weightlifting coach. Shout out to him, too. I love Stan Luttrell. I love him. Yeah, yeah. He's a stud, but he's a strength guy.

He's a high school strength coach. The coach is weightlifting. And so he's a guy that gives me – Ursula, for me, has been awesome. So I've seen her – what's crazy, though – She's your coach, though. Yeah. To be fair, she's my coach, but I've seen her – what's crazy though is – She's your coach though. Yeah. And so, yeah, to be fair, she's my coach. But I've seen her walk up to athletes.

So an athlete I was competing against, which I was a little perturbed by at the moment. But she walked up to them and like the dude was cramping, like hard cramping. And he tried to like – she tried to like offer some help to her coach. And her coach was like a big punk about it, massive punk, didn't want any help. Get away from me. I'm not going to take your help. And I'm like, do you know who's talking to you? And I was competing.

I want to be like, listen, right? And I've seen some instances of that being really good. And then I'm with you. The more and more the sport grows, the more and more I think coaches like – they're almost territorial over their athletes, and if they're for their athlete, that means they've got to be against the coach of this other athlete. It's like they've got – it's like there's – I don't know. It's like they've made a mortal enemy because they're competing against that person. Exactly right. I would say I'm – it's hard for me because I get into that culture, I almost just, like, I'm a competitive person. So, I, like, absorb right into that. And then I'll meet that coach later and be like, man, I'm an idiot. Why was I so hard-nosed to that guy? I should have just, I mean, we're just, we're competing against each other and I'm going to beat him. But, like, that doesn't mean he's a terrible person. I don't mean to treat him like that. You know, like, and so I'm, yeah, I don't know what it is. I think the bigger struggle I have with weightlifting is there's just the two biggest, and I'm going to try and keep myself out of trouble here, is there's just no willingness to share.

Like, they don't, nobody wants to share ideas and programs. And if you do share an idea in a program and it doesn't fit in their like perfect little box, you're immediately a heretic. Like, that drives me crazy. Yeah it drives me crazy i mean do i use like there's there's videos of my athletes doing things that i think are largely beneficial to the sport of weightlifting and by the way they're winning right that i can't post on the internet because the the haters will go crazy right right and so it's like, why? See, you were so honest. I would definitely post that,

because the haters would go crazy. I don't want to put... I guess probably, if I didn't coach majority women, I probably would post it, but I don't want them hating on the girl here. You know, but I definitely did not come into the sport to leave it the same, you know? So, like, you know, when I entered the sport, I mean, I made a promise to myself that, you know, but I mean, I definitely did not come into the sport to like leave it the same, you know. So like, you know, I entered the sport. I mean, I made a promise to myself that, you know, I want to come in and make changes.

I want us to win. You know, I want America to be great again. And so I did not come to leave it lukewarm. And so like, you know, if that ruffles feathers, you know, I'm sorry. You know, like it's not personal. It's like I'm trying to help the sport. And that's another thing, man. Here's one point that we all should agree to.

If you don't agree with it, you're wrong. If you don't agree with me on this one. Come 2020 at the Olympics, it won't be match elite performance going to the Olympics, and it won't be power and grace. It will be the athletes going to the Olympics. So we need to think more about Team USA than we care about Team MASH or Team Power and Grace or Team whoever out there. And so the only way that we can really make a difference is if all the coaches that are actually producing quality athletes could come together

and share information. I would tell Catalyst anything they want to know, you know. I mean, if they want to take it, they can. If they don't, they don't. But I would tell anyone anything they want to know. I have coaches come here all the time. Rebecca knows because she gets the messages before I do. Someone wanting to come.

I have coaches come every single week wanting to learn from us, and I say, come on in for free. Open door policy. Open door policy. And so it wouldn't matter who it was. If it was Juggernaut, they could come. I don't care. I really do like Chad Smith.

I text him. I saw something one time on Instagram where it looked like someone was trying to take their name, and I immediately told him. So, yeah, I'm trying to win these competitions but at the end of the day i have a much bigger picture in mind and i hope that we all do i hope that we care more about team usa you know getting all the spots that we can for the olympics more than we care about winning the national championships i think a lot of times that culture is something that just gets multiplied um over time. The reason it's that way is because that's the culture that other people grew up in.

It shuts off communication when coaches are at each other. It doesn't help anything. I've learned a ton from Ursula and from Luttrell and just seeing them the way they program and the way they've programmed for me. I learned a ton from Richard Fleming I was under him like how awesome would it be if I could sit down with Max right out at Juggernaut or sit down with Greg which I guess I probably could and just and say like hey let me see the guts of your program right and and I'll show you the guts and let me see like what's working one of the guys who has been really helpful to me is Sean

Waxman he's been super helpful he's about to be on our show right after you. Yeah. So, I mean, he, he's a guy that like, I gave him a concern I was having with Jesse Bradley and some of the things he would do because of her, her like anthropomorphics and, um, and stuff like that. And, and he gave me some really good advice that we put to work the next week. Right. And so like what happens to United States weightlifting if every coach out there is that way. And then also if every coach is willing to open their doors and open their books and their programs and computers to everybody who isn't – is coming up in the sport and they see it and they pick little things and they grab little things here. And, oh, that dude – I'm going to say it. That dude uses band squats. And that dude uses these chains to help with this.

And that guy uses this weird carry like that guy uses that weird bar like what if they like saw the parts and the pieces and the weird things i can't believe you said bands way before i said it i said it i'm excited um but like what if people looked at it and you know instead of everybody saying like hey there's only one way so that's the wrong way. And said, man, let me see if there's a place in this for my program. It's just like Horn. He looks at everything and says, I wonder if there's a place for that in my program. If there's not, great. But that doesn't mean there's not a place for it in somebody else's.

And so I want to be a part of a culture where we're collaborative rather than confrontational. I know. And just FYI, Ryan Horn is probably the smartest guy i've ever met is definitely influenced by west side barbell oh my god i'm crazy you know just going to louis simmons and trying to learn then so is ryan horn so is coach ken and so you instead of just bashing me you should go talk to them go to coach ken matter of fact i'll buy you a plane ticket go to you know go to the carolina panthers and look coach ken in the eye big house and say you're stupid for you know using uh louis louis simmons stuff i'll pay your ticket and i'll give you a thousand dollars well that's great for strength conditioning it's not great for weightlifting

say what what'd you say most people would say that's great for strength conditioning like for me to learn from louis but it's not great for weightlifting. Okay. That statement by itself, it makes zero sense. You know, the West Side Principles, you know, when you say strength and conditioning, it's not for football, basketball. You take any sport and you try to make the person a better what? Athlete. Athlete.

And then it's up to the sport sport specific coach to make them better at that sport right exactly so i can make you create more force if i can make you more powerful you know if i can if i make your eccentric forces stronger your ability to stand eccentric forces you know more then you're you have a better chance of being a better athlete. It doesn't matter if you're a weightlifter or a football player. If I have 24 weeks with an athlete, there's a place in my program that early on to be able to do just about anything I want to do to make them a better athlete,

be able to create more force, and still be able to spend the time. Because ultimately, there's only so much time. Sure, the law of diminishing returns, sure. And still have enough time in that program to be able to convert that to specific strength. only so much time and there's a yeah sure the law of diminishing returns sure but like and still have enough time in that program to be able to convert that to specific strength like there's a place for that and i would say there's a place for just about every just almost and there's there's some dumb stuff out there but um almost everything i've run into and every coach i've run into has

given me something that has influenced how i train my high school athletes and it's influenced how i train my olympic athlete my olympic weightlifting athletes and in one shape shape even if it just causes me to look at something differently I don't actually apply it to a program but it caused me to look at something differently man like like it's crazy my my athletes can't see this my crossfitters they can't see it but like the house's block system like his tier system yeah it is like there's shreds of that in how i write for like a competitive crossfitter me too and they have they don't know it they don't can't see it but i can see it when i look at the program like oh there's a total body there's the upper body there's the lower body day emphasis like i see

that and they they'll come back with me it's was like, man, I mean, every, you know, every Monday we squat. I'm like, yeah, that's not boring. That's not uncreative of me. That's somebody really smart. Who's had a lot of success who influenced me that said, Hey, here's some things you should apply to your program. And so I did it. And so you're getting better. So it'd be quiet. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. Now in there's, there are a few coaches out there. Things are starting to change, I think. Let me give you an example. When I was at Pan Ams last year, Junior Pan Ams, and there was Kevin Simons, the coach of Harrison Morris,

the guy who just broke a world record and won the Youth World Championships, and C.J. C.J. Cummings? No, not C.J. Cummings. No, that's exactly right. Martin. C.J. Martin. C.J. Martin from Invictus. No, not CJ Cummings. No, that's exactly right. I was missing. CJ Martin.

CJ Martin from Invictus. Oh, okay. I got you. So when we sat down, the three of us, and talked, it was the most intellectual discussion I've ever had with two other weightlifting coaches. Now, granted, they came from the CrossFit world, which maybe, just maybe, a few weightlifting coaches out there could learn from you know the the willingness of the crossfit coaches to learn i'll tell you this

every time i write a book those two say yeah first two to buy it i really believe like you know like kevin is like waiting up all night because as soon as we when we drop it at five a.m yeah boom he's on the west coast i'm like what are you you doing? Go to sleep, man. But we just sat there and talked. What do you think about this? And then we would watch. The three of us would be together. And we'd be like, what do you notice when this athlete, oh, she's definitely asymmetrical. What would you do to combat that asymmetry?

And then we would listen. It was the best week I've ever had with two other coaches. And we just learned from each other. Those two are smart let me tell you this either one of them puts out a book i'm buying it i even told um i might have already said this i don't know if i did this but like um you guys all know you know we have morgan mccullough and i told you know told him in spain i'm his i'm his godfather i don't know if y'all know that but i am anyway so i told him if i were to die i would want i would want morgan to fly i would want them to go to the west coast and train with kevin because that dude coaches like i would coach you know all your books yeah well and like he just he looks at like harrison's programming in a you know in a very like holistic way yeah you know they look at the way he eats, which so do we with Morgan.

They look at his recovery, which so do we with Morgan. They look at every single part of his work capacity, so do we with Morgan. Well, and he got, gosh, he picked him up at like what? Like 12 years old? So I mean that's the same thing with Morgan. Same thing with Morgan. Yeah. Well, let me ask you this okay if you want a good culture for weightlifting how would you disagree with someone when you disagree with their programming principles do you think that's a part

of why people it's got to be done in questions yeah that's the thing it's got to be done in questions instead of saying that's wrong here's what's stupid say hey yeah instead of saying hey i've never seen that what we walk me through that and like it's there's nothing here's and i'm going to say this there's nothing oh gosh i can already see it um there's nothing that anybody puts out in the strength and conditioning world in the weightlifting world that is by stand alone wrong If it's working, it's not wrong. It may not work for you. You may not agree with the principles. You may disagree with the philosophy, right? But if it's working in some capacity, it is not wrong. It's just

different. And so I think the question doesn't need to be, Hey, I just, it doesn't need to be, I disagree with that. Here's why you're wrong. It needs to be, Hey, I disagree with that. And I don't know that I would use that. Why are you using that? Tell me more. Yeah. Exactly. And again, you may never use any of it,

but I guarantee in that conversation that coach is going to say something that you're going to go, hmm. Yeah, walk me through the process of how you come to use this program. You know, that would be awesome. Someone would have said that when I, you know, and the thing is that like when we showed those videos of west side barbell i wasn't saying i was going to apply those i was just saying i was up there to learn and so immediately instead of like saying did you learn anything would you learn they just attacked me for going there period and so like come on man yeah so just let's talk about it. You know, anyway.

I don't know how you get attacked for that. I send athletes up there, and they publish this crazy video about her on CrossFit, and everybody's like, oh, that's so awesome. It's because you didn't put it on Power and Grace. You didn't say, hey, we're at Westside Barbell trying to get better. Do that. Do that. I want you to try that one.

I mean, I sent Christy up there, and the CrossFit sent a flipping film crew with her to film it. Oh, never mind. I got you to try that one. I mean, I sent Christy up there, and the CrossFit Center Flippin' film crew with her to film it. Oh, never mind. I got you. I'm going to repost it on mine and label Spencer Arnold in Power and Grace at the very time. Like her in the belt spot machine, man. I got you. Hi, I'm Spencer Arnold.

Yeah, we could do that. So, you know, like, I would just like this, you know, like if we could all just agree to be focused, this is in closing, on Team USA and not on, yeah, let's try to win nationals. Let's have fun. But at the end of the day, let's try to share information. Let's open up conversations. If you don't agree, then ask me how I come. And then here's one more thing.

Don't throw up your sword of science when there's really really no science to back up what you're saying you know like here's the thing we all learn from andy galpin almost none of this is like 100 proven yet you know like we're all going by you know what we all you use certain scientific principles that we're trying to use and then we're going to apply it the best that we can and if it yields a good result then we're going to go with that you know but you and here's the thing that every coach that's listening to this needs to hear is when you shut coaches out you're not hurting you man like you're hurting your athletes um yeah it's a great example and you you did this for me travis so i mean i could have been mad at you for bands and chains and thought you were a rock-headed power lifter. But I'm not real uncertain that that's not true.

The thing is, I reached out to you because I have an athlete that tore an ACL and he wasn't recovering and the rehab wasn't working, and he's our stud, middle linebacker and fullback. It's his senior season coming up. This kid's lifeblood is about to hit in August, and he wasn't getting any better. I reached out to you. I said, hey, man, can you connect me with Zach Long, and let's see if Zach can do the rehab on this guy,

and we can use some of this blood flow restriction stuff and get him back. Zach connects me to a guy that's 45 minutes down the road. That kid is literally in Zach's office. The other guy's name is Zach the road. He's literally, that kid is literally in Zach's office. The other guy's name is Zach Dunkel. He's in Marietta. He's in that guy's office right now. I'm forcing him in there two or three days a week. And the growth and the rehab we've seen in him, he's likely going to be on the field in August, where two months ago, that probably wasn't the case. I allowed myself to be open to an idea from another coach in another place. And now my athlete is going to benefit from it.

If I shut that down and I come confrontational rather than collaborative, my athlete gets hurt, not me. And I promise I would share that same information with Max, which Max is really cool. I like Max. I like all these dudes. I'm about to say I would share it with Chad Smith. I would share it with even Colin Burns.

I would share it with anybody who wanted to know. Like, I love those dudes. I have nothing against anybody. I mean, like, yeah, when Nathan is going against Colin, I want him to win, even though Colin's killing it right now. But, you know, but, like, I want Team USA to win. I want more than anything, you know, to send a team to the Olympics in 2020 that's more than just one dude that just, you know, basically was gifted, you know, and then, you know, I want a team to go to 2020 and compete, not just be there.

Like I want to change American weightlifting. And if it, if that means that none of my athletes are going, that's fine. If I can just be a part of the process, I'll be happy. Well, let me ask you this. We've talked about how the weightlifting world can benefit from strength and conditioning world as far as their culture. What about the reverse? How could strength and conditioning benefit from weightlifting? Travis, you know how I'm going to answer this. I mean, I think I agree. I think Spitzer's about to say that, you know, every athlete could become a better athlete by using snatch and clean and jerk.

I mean, is that what you're about to say or what? Yeah, I was about to say that the best athletes in the world are the best snatchers. And I say that with some jest because we all know that's not like 100% proven or true. But I think if strength coaches – and this is – man, I might get get myself and I would be okay with getting a little trouble here I think strength coaches are hard-headed and because they don't know it and they don't know how to teach it and they're unwilling to admit that they're ignorant they run from it and so that's that's been the response to a full clean to a jerk and to a snatch in the strength conditioning world by and large and then it's to that, I mean, I sat in a flipping chair

at a national high school strength coach conference, watched it. With my own two eyes, this guy teach the clean, and I'm going to get in trouble for this. That's fine. And maybe it was, I don't know. Oh, yeah, it was terrible. It was awful. I mean, the guy jumped forward six inches,

and the coach said it was done on purpose. It was awful. Like, I see that that happening and these guys need to go and and like they need to go put their arm around a weightlifting coach or a weightlifter and say hey man help me i need you to teach me how to do this well help me help my athletes because where was i he has 110 athletes in his weight room at one time and that's how you're teaching the clean come on now where i forget where i was he sent me that video? He has 110 athletes in his weight room at one time. And that's how you're teaching the clean? Come on now. I forget where I was. He sent me this video.

He said, what do you think about this? And I watched it. I threw up first. And then I'm like, where are you right now? I was like, what is this madness you're sending me? I'm in a room with 75, way more than that, like 100-something strength coaches who are all taking notes with their eyes wide open that's where i was sitting around four olympic lifting coaches who are like oh my gosh what is this now that is the problem that is the problem with strength conditioning is like you could say if i you know if i knew somebody who knew somebody all of a sudden i'm the strength coach at um you know like alabama like immediately i have all the credit of being in alabama i mean

i haven't done anything like they recruit the best athletes they could not do a strength conditioning program and they'll still be the best team in america you know like yeah they play marbles so i'm the strength coach now at alabama and so now i go and somebody asked me to speak at the nsca you know the, the conference. And like, they're going to believe everything I say. So that's the problem with the district edition world right there is like, there needs to be some checks and balances. Like just cause I knew somebody who knew somebody who gave me a job at Alabama, it doesn't mean I'm really good, you know?

So there does need to be some, you know, like that can happen in weightlifting. Like if you really suck, your athletes suck. So, so that can't happen. But like, you know, that couldn't happen in weightlifting like if you really suck your athlete sucks though so that can't happen but like um you know in the industry world it can happen because you can i mean alabama wins because of recruiting not because it's a decent program yeah and there's a lot of way because they recruit kids with good moms and dads coach kid would probably say the majority of it is recruiting i mean like uh yeah it's i mean there's certain programs you can run and like there's certain coaching but there's all those coaches are pretty darn good at that level and

all the strength programs are you know fairly good but if you recruit if i recruit the best athletes odds are i'm going to win it's that well that's why if you walked in there and asked scott cochran what his main job is he's not going to tell you to develop athletes he's going to say to protect athletes because he's already getting them yeah he's not He's not going to tell you to develop athletes. He's going to say to protect athletes because he's already getting them. He's not trying to make them better. He's trying to keep them healthy. The coach has said if you hurt somebody, I'll have you killed. That's what's happened.

He's like, no problem. Derrick Henry's coming. Don't hurt him. Honestly, I mean, I'd probably, if I was the Smith coach in Alabama, I'd be so afraid. I'd probably just do a circuit of hammer strength. I'd be like, I'd do the HIIT stuff. I'd be like, boys, just don't go super heavy.

Actually, don't add weight. Just do the machine with no weight. Just body weight. Yeah. And like, yeah. I mean, like, because he's just the thoroughbreds. Anyway. Well, Spencer, thanks for being on with us.

You've been on this several times, but for the three or four people who haven't listened to the genius of those podcasts yet, where can people go to find out more about you? Man, go to powerandgraceperformance.com. That's essentially the hub for all we do. We have the Power and Grace Instagram. It's at Power and Grace Performance. And then I believe we have a Twitter. Some of this is getting out of my control at this point.

But you can also check out King's Ridge Christian School in Alpharetta, Georgia for a look into our athletics program and into our strength and conditioning program. You should follow Spencer on Instagram because he does some really cool things. Man, it's always great to talk with Spencer. Thanks to him for being on again head on over to mashleak.com to see all that we've got for you there from free articles and podcasts to ebooks coaching and more thanks for listening and we'll see you next time Outro Music