Barbell Shrugged - Friendships Forged Through Suffering, Sensory Deprivation Training, and Learning w/ Josh Trent  — Barbell Shrugged #356

Episode Date: November 16, 2018

Josh Trent is the founder of Wellness Force & Wellness Force Media. As a top-ranked iTunes host of the Wellness Force Radio Podcast with over 15 years in the health and wellness industry, Josh leads the global Wellness Force community in discovering the physical and emotional intelligence to help men and women live life well.   As the host of Wellness Force Radio, Josh interviews world-class experts in the fields of physical and emotional intelligence, mindset, behavior change, supplementation, nutrition, health, wellness, fitness, and mindfulness that empowers the WFR audience with actionable steps for the wellness journey.   In this episode, we learn about Josh's story, and about what's Wellness Force Radio, have gone too far with self development, emotional intelligence for personal growth, finding freedom in business and life, the future of podcasting, and more.   Enjoy! - Doug and Anders ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs_trent ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Please support our partners! @bioptimizers: www.BiOptimizers.com/realchalk  “shrugged” to save 20% ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

Want to be a better communicator? Follow these three steps. Every Wednesday on Barbell Shrug, you hear the test. In that 90 to 120 minutes, my job is to take listeners and our guests on a journey to exposing their best self. I want to uncover their passion, the story that led them to pursuing greatness, and find the purpose in the work they do. The practice leading up to the test is a daily commitment to improving my ability to communicate. The system is simple, costs you about $30 a month, and will reshape every interaction you have in your life. Step one, read. Read books.

It's $30 a month. Don't listen to them. There is no better way to increase your vocabulary, learn sentence structure, and tell stories than reading. People that write bestsellers are professionals. You should not only learn the ideas they put forth, but learn the way they deliver the message. Nobody in the history of history wrote a bestseller filled with run-on sentences, incomplete ideas, and an inability to distinguish then from then. Write. I write 300 to 500 words per day that get sent to nearly a quarter of a million people. I want my message to be educational, inspiring, and

entertaining. Poor grammar, loose ideas, and scattered sentence structure has a great way of turning readers off. Writing forces you to be concise with your words and message. Record. Record conversations with your friends. Pick a topic, podcast, book, and force yourself to have an intelligent, long-form discussion about it. I do this with as many of my friends as possible for hours on end. Sometimes, Doug and I will sit in my garage with microphones on and just talk. At first, recording yourself

and studying the way you converse will be like nails on a chalkboard. But the more you read, the better your vocabulary, sentence structure, and storytelling will become. Then, writing will provide clarity and force your ideas to take shape in a meaningful way. Recording yourself talking will expose your weaknesses in conviction, tone, and delivery. Incomplete thoughts are very obvious when you hear the playback. You want extra credit? Objectively

assess how you impact every person you interact with during your playback. You want extra credit? Objectively assess how you impact every person you interact with during your day. You have 10 seconds with a barista, three minutes with a random acquaintance, and one hour at the gym. Through your ability to communicate, can you create a meaningful experience for everyone you come in contact with. I ask myself every waking moment of the day. That way, every Wednesday on Barbell Shrug, two hours of elevated conversation feels like just another day at the coffee shop. I want you to get over to hang out with Mr. Doug Larson

at DougLarsonFitness.com. Movement-specific mobility, nutrition for weightlifters. If you are a gym owner or a fitness professional coach looking for business consulting, everything's happening over at Doug Larson Fitness. Make sure you get over and hang out with him. The show today, we are hanging out with Josh Trent. This is from us hanging out

at the Spartan World Championships in Lake Tahoe. Had a blast. Josh is a good friend. He lives up in Encinitas. When I first took over the show, he was one of the very first people that I reached out to to just learn about this business and learn about interviewing people and kind of elevating your conversation skills.

And I have always respected what he does, his message. Please get over to Wellness Force Radio, like and subscribe, everything that they're doing. And you can find him at TrentSD on Instagram. We are going to have a really elevated conversation here right now. This is the test. Communication at its finest. Things are going to be strong. Things are going to be elevated.

Things are going to be fun. We're going to laugh because this is what we do. Professional talkers talking. Ready to rock? Let's get into the show. We're rolling. Let's do it. Welcome to Water, Bell, Shrugged.

I'm Anders Marner. Hanging out with Doug Larson. And we can also say, how do you intro your show? Welcome to Wellness Force Radio. This is Josh Trent. Like that. We're doing the co-show today. We are here in Lake Tahoe. Doug and I

recovering. Everyone's in recovery mode right now, right? For more than one reason. I am recovering. My feet are a little beat up. We ran 13 miles. Doug Larson, recovering 13 and a half miles. Josh Trent, 13 and a half thousand beers last night. The handful of times I drink a year, this was one of them. So I'm like, first time ever doing a podcast.

A little bit feeling myself. When you take the cage away from your own life, things get carried away. Your first hungover podcast. Congratulations, dude. Thank you. That's a big milestone. Thank you. I appreciate it.

You're a real podcaster now. Yes. We had a big night last night hanging out with the Mind Pump guys. The FitAid guys. FitAid guys. We are at the FitAid booth. All the people are hanging out. It's super awesome here.

What have you been learning? Is this your first Spartan experience? This is my second year at Spartan. You did it last year? Last year was really cool. This year was a lot more organized. I feel like they have all their T's and I's dotted and crossed. You know what I've really been learning, though, is these people that suffer, man, they love to suffer together.

And that's a continuing threat. Isn't that everybody? That's the CrossFit world. That's the marathon world. I think we all share that. It's like I enjoy taking my body to places where I kind of feel like I want to cry. And then I feel the gratitude afterwards. The easiest way for me to make friends is to do something like this.

Yeah. Like, yesterday we went running with Cali Bundy and Evan DeMarco from OMAX, and, like, I know those guys. I'd already met Evan, and we did a really awesome show together and whatnot. But, like, after running on the mountain for five hours, just, like, hanging out, casual conversation, like, enduring the suffering that comes with fucking hiking to the top of an actual real mountain here in Tahoe. And then getting done and grabbing beers and doing a show.

I feel like 12 hours is a huge difference in how well I know those people. And if I was just hanging out at dinner, just talking or at my house, sitting on the couch, it wouldn't be the same. Well, it's a common thread. It's like you share this suffering together so that you can grow through the suffering. I mean, how many things in life are like that? Like you guys have Mark Devine on the same. Well, it's a common thread. It's like you share this suffering together so that you can grow through the suffering. I mean, how many things in life are like that? Like, you guys have Mark Devine on the show. I actually have never talked to Mark Devine. Oh, you haven't had Mark Devine on the show yet? No. Well, we have.

He's been on the show two or three times. It's not Stan. Mark, come and hang out with us. We talked to him this weekend. This is a big thread of his personality, man. I think he's gone already, though. Yeah, he had to leave already. Yeah. We'll snag him. He needs some time. Yeah, we were supposed to hang out with him. What have we got?

Man, it's been an awesome event. We've talked to some really cool people. The people, you want to talk about people suffering. You heard about the people that locked and loaded. They threw the people in the cage with nothing but a... 24 hours. 24 hours. Complete sensory deprivation.

Complete sensory deprivation. Complete sensory deprivation. For mental health awareness. Yes. Did you hear about this? Yeah, incredible. What was the guy's name that did it? He was like an old war veteran, I believe. Tosh.

Tosh. Crooked butterfly. Very intense human being in person. Did you interview him? I have not. What a fascinating conversation. His story is, dude, savage. Like, fighting people with their hands, taking their own guns away, and then killing.

Oh, man. Like, one of those stories where you're like, people like you exist? Like, if we put everyone in the room and, like, all the things started going really poorly, everyone would just look at him and be like, what do we do? There's only one guy that has the answer. So he was being shot at. Instead of running away, he ran at the people, took in took their guns and killed him i read this story i want to say call it five years ago six years ago the way i remember the story is that he was in

afghanistan and they were his his group of people the the SEALs, were in a very bad place. And getting, taking fire from, like, it just wasn't good. And wherever he was at, he ran out of ammunition. And instead of running away, he just started running at the enemy, fighting them with his hands, took their guns, and then just started annihilating people with their own weapons. That's the original definition of beast mode. Yeah, like you're just a savage. Yeah, that's – I feel like there's a lot of movie characters

and cartoon characters here, which, by the way, both of you guys are as well. Beautiful. Unique, dynamic, powerful personalities that you just – once you experience them, you're like, wow, that's kind of a character in a movie. Is there anybody you guys interviewed where it was like, whoa, this guy's really intense or this gal's really intense? Charlie Angle. There was a guy last night.

Charlie Angle, for sure. Yeah, he was wearing a cowboy hat with an American flag stamped on it. Oh, Hunter McIntyre. Hunter McIntyre. He's awesome. Everyone. He is like the biggest movie character. I asked him, how do you know Adam?

And he's like, oh, I do lighting for Adam in porn shoots. He's got a really nice dick. And I'm like, what? That's the way this guy talks? What Adam? From Mind Pump. Oh, nice. Yeah.

But, yeah, unique personalities here, man, like unforgettable people. He's the guy we got drunk with and did two and a half hours. That whole thing rolled so easy, too. Like there was no dead space. It just fucking just flowed for two and a half hours. He's fast. The entire village here at Squaw was empty. We had that blue strobe light

pointing down at the table and we were just out here drinking. These things you don't think about and then you're like a bear could have showed up so easily. Yes. And we saw bears yesterday. I think it's fascinating. I don't know how you guys feel about this. Like health events. This is a health event. Yeah. There's drinking

and craziness health practices and the same thing with paleo effects. It's like these events, This is a health event. Yeah. There's drinking and craziness health practices. And the same thing with paleo effects. It's like these events, they bring out kind of the best and the worst in health. The fitness industry has a lot of healthy things associated with it. The fitness industry also has some very unhealthy practices associated with it. Yeah, it does. But everyone likes to just like hang out and have a beer. I don't consider that to be like radically unhealthy to go to a fun event and have a beer with

a friend. It's not like an everyday occurrence. How often do I drink beer? Not very often. When I come to something like this and I see people that I don't see very often and I want to go grab a beer, do a show with Hunter McIntyre and drink an IPA, it's a good time. I'm more unhealthy at these things than I am in my real life by a hundredfold. I think so. I usually go home from them and I'm like, I can't wait to real life by like a hundredfold. I think so.

I usually go home from them and I'm like, I can't wait to get back to living a healthier life. Like I feel terrible right now. There's canola oil in everything I eat. Everything. It's just, uh, yeah. When I'm at home, I eat zero unhealthy food. Yeah.

It just doesn't happen. So when I'm on the road, like I'm a little more flexible. You're one of these guys too. I was telling you last night, it was always hard to get a pulse on you when I first on the road, I'm a little more flexible. You're one of these guys, too. I was telling you last night, it was always hard to get a pulse on you when I first met you. I've known of you and had conversations with you a little bit here and there for like two years. And you seem like this pillar of American flag, apple pie, Chevrolet. A lot of discipline going on here. Very, very solid, both feet on the ground.

But yet, actually, I was telling you last night, I thought you were a business major, but you're a kinesiology major. That's right. But yet you're so talented in business, man. I want to know, and I know people listening want to know too, like how the hell did you actually go and formulate this success path for Barbell Shrug, for Barbell Business? Like, this is big, man. This guy's taking over the show. I know. He just took over. All right, it's a wellness sports radio show. It is, it is. We're allowed. Man, I didn't have a degree, or I don't have a degree in business at all but but i've been running my own company various companies for for 10 years now so uh i certainly have some level of experience and there's there's certainly many things that

i don't know but uh i wish i would have taken more classes in business in in undergrad in graduate school i actually remember playing football and uh being an exercise science major and the business majors were, cause I was also pre-med back then. And so all the people that were taking like biochemistry and O chem and like, like the hard kind of a classes that weed people out for medical school, they made fun of the business majors. Cause like, Oh, they're taking the easy classes. And so it was, it was this weird dynamic where it wasn't like, are they taking things that are useful? It's like, how hard is the class? If you didn't take the hardest class, then you were just

being a bitch. Wow. That was like, that was is the class? If you didn't take the hardest class, then you were just being a bitch. Wow. That was the mentality. And so a lot of the chemistry majors would make fun of the business majors because their classes are, quote, unquote, so easy. I don't think business has ever been easy for me. That's why I'm genuinely stoked to learn how you did this. It's really funny that it was the easy.

You guys viewed it as the easy way. Because I was in there, and I thought it was really easy. Yeah. I thought business school, not, NBA was challenging, but, like, drinking was, like, a big part of the NBA. And, like, going to the bar and talking about, like, how to create businesses. Well, how is that a reflection of real life? Like, most of the connections and relationships are made over dinner, at a bar, socially, rather than in a business setting. School is just, like, a game that you can play.

School can be really easy if you want it to be. I never was like the person that was like, did you read the book or did you just take the test? Me personally? Yeah, just generally. I typically would cram the night before. I was a procrastinator. I still got honor roll.

I can only imagine like what would have happened if i applied myself yeah i had like a 3-0 going into my senior year and then i really worked hard and i walked out with a 2-6 because i had like i cranked out like a 2-4 and a 2-3 my last two semesters was like god i'm pathetic why am i doing literally nothing right now? Just wasting everyone's money. That's who you chose to be your partner on the show. I just got to know you that much better. Maybe I made a mistake. Well, I've always considered you, Doug, as the brain,

like the way that you have moved this ship forward, this Barbell Shrugged ship. Now it's this collective, Shrugged Collective. But I'm genuinely curious. Like business for me has always been a learning curve uh wellness force is growing but like i see what you guys have done and uh it's really admirable like i really respect the kind of empire it's like almost like a barbell empire that you've created uh what about your personality man do you can you lean on and say you know what i think that's that's the part of my soul that drove the business um i think from the beginning, we were really fortunate that we, since we had our CrossFit gym, CrossFit Memphis Faction Strength and Conditioning,

we had that business before Barbell Shrugged. We were able to go into the Barbell Shrugged thing with a big team from the beginning because it was basically like our staff from the gym were all being involved in starting Barbell Shrugged. So me, Mike, and Rob were all business partners. CTP was already working at the gym as all being involved in starting barbell shrug so me mike and rob were all business partners ctp was already was already working at the gym as an intern then we brought him into into barbell shrug as an as an owner and then we had chris moore was always there hanging out lifting weights he's been a good friend of ours for a long time so at a minimum we had like those five people so we had we had five people that were like super bought in and dedicated from day one and recognizing that we can't do it by ourselves and it's going to be way better and way more fun to do this with a group of people

that we enjoy hanging out with which is still that's the reason we're still doing to this day because i get to hang out with people like you and go to places like this we're hanging out the spartan world championships in tahoe hanging out with people that like you like are like some of the greatest people that i know like this is like it couldn't be better like yes as far as far as having like a business where where it's really fun traveling the world with your friends and fucking hanging out and talking on microphones is a pretty kick-ass way to do it well i don't know if you've mentioned this before i was i was talking to doug and i was learning like you know you came from a household where your mom's parents like told her how to do everything so she left you with an open reign right let you explore

in life do you think that that is actually what allowed you to create in business that open space? Yeah, I think to some extent. As you said, my mom, her dad made all her decisions for her. When she went to go to college, he got the application, he filled it out, and he said, here, you're going to this university. And there was no conversation about it. And that was how her whole life was. So my life was the opposite.

She was just like, never told me what to do. Like, you're an intelligent person you go figure it out of course when i was six seven eight whatever like when i was young like she would guide me but like she's not gonna let you run in traffic yeah yeah once i was like in high school and college like there was no i had some some boundaries of course but like she really let me both my parents my mom and my dad really let me make my own decisions and I think that was the best thing that ever could have happened to me. Now that I'm an adult, I feel like I have to be an entrepreneur because I just want to do whatever the hell I want all the time. If I went to go get a job, it's this state break, total disconnect. Why is this person telling me what to do?

That's not how life is supposed to be. I had that conflict with my wife a little bit where she tells me what to do and I'm just like what the fuck is going on? This is not what's supposed to be happening. You're supposed to ask, not tell. Yeah, we came from very different backgrounds, me and my wife. So we've had that conversation many times where I just want ultimate freedom and she wants ultimate stability which I think is kind of a normal

dynamic in a lot of cases between men and women or the masculine and the feminine so to speak. Anders just had a baby. You literally are in that household, too. Anders is raising his hands. Anders just had a baby. Like, you literally are bringing a life into the world with your wife. It actually was not a thing. And then my wife did this thing, and now we have a thing.

How did you feel? Were you nervous? Were you scared? Like, seeing how great Doug turned out, like, how are you going to design this life for the baby? This guy's pumping my tires over here. I know, right? Yo, having a kid is super cool. In all honesty, I feel like my entire life, I'm like, okay, we'll figure it out.

The kid's going to live. They're very resilient little humans. And I think I'm going to be a good dad because I live my life with a pretty good sense of purpose and understanding. And I feel like I'm a good human being. I love my life. What better environment would you want a kid to grow up in than around people that are genuinely filled with, like, love and happiness? And doing something they feel is on purpose. Yeah, like, I mean, she can't talk. She can't understand me.

But all I ever talk to her about is, like, living a life with purpose. And, like, effort matters. And she can't understand me, but all I ever talk to her about is living a life with purpose. And effort matters, and she can't understand shit. But if I start now telling her that she's capable of doing whatever the hell she wants, assuming she wants to work really hard for it, I think it's a pretty good start. Well, I'm not even dating someone right now. I'm just really focused on Wellness Force. But I do have this burning ember for bringing a life into the world. How many kids do you have, Doug? I have three.

You have three kids? Three boys. What did you notice about yourself in the way that you approached business when you had kids? What changed about you in the way you approached your business life? The balancing act. I'm not good at the balance thing. I try hard. What changed with how I view business as a result of having kids?

I don't have a good answer for that at the moment, but I'll definitely think about it. Business became much more difficult because now I have a second job, so to speak. I just have so much more responsibility outside of business to be helping my wife raise three kids. I have three kids under three and a half years old. So that's a heavy load on my wife to be doing all the time, which she handles like a champ. But I have to be that much more efficient with the time that I have to spend training and or on the business.

So I'm really working hard to delegate and to make sure that I'm only focusing on my highest priority tasks because there's no time to waste. Yeah. I feel like there's like a... You know that there's something else that's very important that you could be doing. And sometimes that comes with a lot of negativity in your brain.

It's like, yes, you should be spending a lot of extra time with your wife and all these things. But when it's just your wife, you're like, oh oh we have so much time together but now when you have like a little kid downstairs and she's you want to play and you want to go do all the things that little kids do and you're like but i have to go upstairs and work yes and then you're like man do i really need to go work do i really have to go do this? It does make you much more fit. You have significantly

less time. You don't know how much time you have right now in your life. That's just free time. Free fuck off time. I'll just do nothing right now. It's fascinating you said that because I'll do a show and I'll be talking about a health behavior or interviewing an expert

and I'll think, yeah, for all the parents out there and then I think, well, I don't even have kids like i can't really speak from a place of truly knowing what it's like however i do have nieces and nephews and i remember like changing their diapers and getting poop sprayed on me and so like i can understand the sacrifice yeah yet i think there's something that happens to the human spirit when you bring a life into the world they're cool dude like you want to hang out with them Like, I really enjoy the time just going down and, like, watching the things arms freak out. Like, they start talking a little bit.

Like, the noises that come out and you feel like you're having a conversation. You're not. But it feels like it. And it's cool. Yeah. But, dude, it changes the game. I think the free time thing really is the thing that I'm like,

whoa, I used to be able to go from, like, work, create a little bit of space in life, go downstairs, hang with the wife, do whatever we need to do, go to the gym. And now it's like I have 24 hours and now I've got 30 hours of work. How do we do this thing? Don't you guys think that we're all – every human being is looking for maximum effort, minimum effort, maximum results? Like we're all trying to kind of hack the game in health, wealth, and relationships. What do you guys do for that? What do you guys do to balance the health aspect?

Do you always train in the morning? No. That's the easiest part to me. I don't even think about it. That's just mandatory, getting out of bed. I train seven days a week. I eat the same shit every single day. I eat at the same time. And that's like if there was a flow chart or if there was a thing,

in the very middle of it is always like I have to train, I have to eat well, and God, I hope I can sleep well. And then everything else stems out of there. There's like a commitment to the gym and physicality, I think, that I have to have in order for everything else to work. Like I have to go. And if I don't, it's kind of like everything else would suffer if I was not able to do it every day.

So it's more of like a life practicum. You're not chasing a specific goal. Like you're not trying to get jacked and yoked right now in TAM. No. Literally everything is built off of me training yeah my entire like the entire structure of life is built off of training so it has to happen or it gets really really unstable in my brain i get really really stressed out i'm not present anywhere and uh that's really when problems happen i find that if i don't work out i get

more emotional i'll get more testy yeah and i'll actually feel more sad as well, more depressed. For a long time in my life, I fought depression and anxiety, pretty severe bouts of it. My mom was manic bipolar, so I kind of grew up in an environment where it wasn't really safe. And when I found football in high school, I was like, oh, a team that needs me, people that want to be around me, something that makes me feel alive, kind of going back to the shared suffering thing. But when I left high school, I kept eating like I was playing sports. So I went up all the way to 280 pounds, man.

Oh, dang. I didn't know that. Yeah, it was insane. And then I got to this place where I was drinking, and I threw down a red party cup at 21, and I was like, there's more to life than this. Yeah. And I ran home drunk for three miles, and I typed in the computer,

like, how do I be healthy? And then it was like 18 more months of me experimenting how to actually be a healthy body don't we do that we get to like this weird point like I feel like you started wanting to have a business yeah I did not like I didn't know that like that was a possibility almost like it's more like I started not wanting to have to get a job yeah we could call it that those are kind of the same thing was more like I started not wanting to have to get a job. Yeah, we can call it that. That's fine. Those are kind of the same thing. I was fantastic at partying. But I realized one day that it was like, this shit's got to stop.

I can direct all of this energy towards a thing that's going to actually create value. Because you start getting into some weird things. I was never like... When you hear people that are really alcoholics, you i was i don't i was never like when you hear people that are like really alcoholics you're like oh i was never even freaking close right the ones that drink in the morning i was feeling like bad about things that i was doing like you black out once or

twice and then it becomes like more regular and then all of a sudden you're like dude this is done i need new friends i need new everything and I had been in the gym my whole life, and I was like, I'm going to give that thing a shot. That one over there, if I go to the gym all the time, I can make that a thing. Well, a lot of it has to do, it's a lower vibration. It's like drinking and getting fucked up. It's a very low consciousness, low vibration activity.

Yet, in the right context, it can be fun because you're celebrating. But I'll raise my hand. Except for for last night last night was very high vibration yes no there's a time and a place but um but when i was drinking and kind of like disassociating from my emotions it didn't make sense to my heart and i think because my the heart is what drives all of us your soul your heart as much as you guys talk about strength and fitness and there's like a robustness to your presence i know that there's the soul in the heart that drives the whole thing do you think that your partying days help what you do now though oh yeah because i got the contrast of feeling like shit enough ah see that's not even what i take out of it i honestly when if you put me in the room when i was from 18

to 26 years old if you put me in the room where everybody was like drinking and having a good time, it was like, oh, this is like an audience. Like I get to get drunk and like have fun with all these people. And it's going to be the funniest night of our lives. And we can always like elevate this feeling. And it's going to be the coolest. We're kind of performing. But I was hammered while I was doing it.

Okay. Non-stop performing. So do you feel like that made you a better podcaster uh it made me a better coach first yeah and then when i became a coach and i realized that i had a responsibility then i really was able to like hone that skill that i didn't know i was developing to actually being able to create a message that mattered and then now i can structure that a little bit better and make it at least someone you want to be around.

I've never had somebody ask me, what did you garner from your partying? That's such an interesting question. I feel like literally that's a real thing, though. I was like the performing guy. It was like the bigger, louder, more party we can do right now, the better. So it was like constantly elevating. What you're doing is like you're riding on people's vibrations

and you're riding on the energy of the party. And like, can we make it better? Can we steer it some way? And like I was just in the room always trying to make it cooler, make it more fun. And then I got in the gym and I was like, oh, shit, the music matters. Like, oh, that's a thing. And you start just piecing all the little widgets together that made for a really fun party to now I have a gym that looks like a frat party every day. And it's a lot of fun to train at.

And we're getting really big and strong. And it turns out that's a successful thing. You just know how to create a vibe in a place. People want to be around the fun energy. I got most humorous class clown in high school because I went to high school and my home life was shit, so I wanted to be accepted and have fun. I was the guy that would do anything. Somebody would say, I dare you to do this, and I would peel my shirt off and paint and

have snot coming out of my nose. I was definitely a kid that was running from things. But humor was this great tool. And I think humor in business and life and relationships, it's like people that don't have humor, they don't really succeed, man. Yeah. Without humor, it's hard to have success. It's like a lot of stand-up comedians, a very high percentage of them,

have troubled pasts. Yeah. Look at Joe Rogan. Holy shit. Sure. What do you mean? Oh, dude, he's got a lot of troubles in his past. Yeah.

Yeah. He fought depression for a long time. He's talked about it. I think that's why he and Jordan Peterson connect. Oh, yeah? Because Jordan Peterson also struggled from of troubles in his past. Yeah. Yeah, he fought depression for a long time. He's talked about it. I think that's why he and Jordan Peterson connect. Jordan Peterson also struggled from depression. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, Jim Carrey.

They, like, slept in a car, their whole family. Yeah, there's tons of people. I mean, that's one thing if you want to go bring it full circle and bring it back to talking about kids. I'm actually terrified that my kid's life is going to be way too easy because there's way different resources in her life than the resources that I had. And it would be like talking about hard work when you see people that don't struggle when they're young and like know how hard it is. Like for me to get through high school, I like I've never had a summer break from the time I was 14 to now I've worked 70 hours a week every

week of my life like if I wasn't in school I was mowing lawns I was throwing mulch I was working 60 hours a week on a navy boat like I don't know anything except I have to just show up and do this thing because it's just what I do and uh, you know, sometimes I think about that. I'm like, you, little 13-week-old, you have a cookie-cutter life right now. This shit is hard. You're going to get kicked in the teeth one day. You better be prepared for it. Well, speaking of Rogan, you just mentioned, like, I heard him saying, you know, like a week ago that he,

with the majority of his friends that he thinks are super interesting that are doing cool things in life, almost all of them had rough childhoods. Yeah. But he has a daughter, or maybe more than one daughter, and he's conflicted because he wants his children to have a comfortable, stable, safe, fun upbringing. But at the same time, if that's the case, will they turn into the people when they go on to life on their own? Will they be the people that he hopes they will be if they're too comfortable growing up? That's a really good point. I think that, see, do you struggle with that with your kids?

Sure. I do it all the time. I just look at her and I'm like, she's been alive 13 weeks. She's been on two cross-country flights. She's seen like six states already. She vacationed in Tahoe. She'll remember none of this. But it's like half of your life has been fucking incredible.

Like you're just, oh, like planes, they're just normal. No, that stuff's expensive. They're very special. Someone has to pay for that. Like not your ticket, but that's like a real thing. Like how do you create struggle and adversity when you are hoping to nurture a little monkey that's in your life? We're all athletes, so I think sports is a great avenue to do that, of course. If your kid's a state champion wrestler, he's going to be going through some shit to get to that level.

Even if he has a comfortable, comfortable safe stable life at home where you have money and he has everything that he needs as far as food water shelter and all that like when you get on the wrestling mat there's there's still that struggle and adversity yeah we're at the spartan world championships right now like i've been out to joe to send his house a couple of times and you know waking up at five in the morning and his kids are awake his kids have wrestling practice at five in the morning they have kung fu at five in the morning it's still dark out and they're gonna run to the top of the big fucking hill behind Joe's house in condition at 5 in the morning.

And as far as I can tell, they just think that's what life is supposed to be like. They're 8 years old, and they're up training at 5 a.m. every day, and Joe's up with them. Well, there's so much emotional resilience that's garnered in training. That's why all the great masters start with the physical body. Look at C check's work like paul check everything starts with the body with the breath and then everything is learned from there these kids by the way joe's kids they're gonna be so set up for life i don't think there's any fear in joe's mind around them having like somewhat of a cookie cutter uh you know spoon in their mouth existence he created something so it's not possible he created something yeah there's a structure there's a framework there and i think like you know as parents man we can learn so much

i'm not a parent but i watch my brother my brother has become such a resilient motherfucker yeah as having three kids now and like man there is so many things to be learned there i'm just uh you know i'm waiting for that opportunity myself well yeah and your opportunity you're talking about you're on you're on this new little kick in your life of exploring what it looks like to have long-term relationships. Well, I've definitely explored. I wouldn't say that it's the first time I've explored long-term relationships. You're in the middle of an exploration. Yeah, I think what I've learned is that the more that I can just be myself, be authentic, that's when the right woman comes along.

I think in the past I was just chasing the physical. Yeah. Especially in my 20s. Like it was definitely chasing the physical. Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm going to hook up with people that are around me in my environment. Yet something recently shifted for me actually where I was going up for my third ascent to Mount Whitney and I got altitude sickness. Oh, yeah, dude. I want to hear about this.

I got a really bad altitude sickness. Yeah. Have you guys ever had altitude sickness before? No. All right. I was actually wondering if I was going to get it yesterday when we were running. You might have. I've never had it.

But I'll connect the dots to your relationship question through this Whitney story. I love this. So I'm going up, and we're sleeping. We did two nights, and I'm sleeping at the outpost camp. And all of a sudden, my heart's just pounding out of control. And I'd never felt this before. And then I start to get kind of sick like i'm gonna throw up so i get out of the tent it's like 30 degrees i'm walking around and out of nowhere i just start bawling like tears streaming down my face yeah later on i learned that one of the ways you know you have altitude

sickness is if you have uncontrollable emotions oh wow so i'm just freaking out my buddy had an oxygen canister i breathed in the canister. Didn't help at all. Got to this point where I had to make a decision like, should I go down the mountain or not? I laid on my back in the tent and I saw like this jellyfish illusion, like a hallucination. And that's when I knew. I told my buddy Brent, like, we're going down. And as I was going down, like what was coming through me was, I'm not going to die right now because I haven't met my woman yet. I haven't like created my life. And it was like this

insane gratitude for literally almost dying. And I don't know if you guys have had near death experiences before, but it took me there and it like really brought out the gratitude. Did you leave your body? In a way, yeah. I mean look, picture this. The moonlight, 12,000 feet

coming down the mountain in the middle of the night, barely able to step. My buddy's coaxing me down the mountain. And all I could think about was, like, yeah, I haven't met my woman yet. I haven't actually created my life yet. Yeah. So that was, like, bringing it full circle to the relationship, man. So what are you working on to get to that point? Like, right now?

With the relationship. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's just claiming my space. It's being a master of my domain. It's not being afraid to express exactly how I feel at all times.

I think it's really easy to kind of hide emotions or hide what we really think, but that's my deepest edge in emotional intelligence is like saying exactly what I believe to be true even if I'm scared

to say it. I think that's what's attractive to most women is men that speak their mind. Not because they're like chauvinistic, domineering, trying to control, but like actually being authentically connected to what they believe even if it means it's against the status quo yeah i'm like that's where i'm at and i think that's

what will attract a woman who i like outspoken women i like strong women and i think i'll find one like that i think operating under the model of 100 honesty combined with 100% respect works incredibly well. Because a lot of people like shitty people will take the 100% honesty piece and use it to be a dick. Yeah. You don't want to be that person.

But you do need to be true to yourself and say what you really think and what is kind of like the deepest truths of your heart so to speak. But at the same time you need to respect

the person you're talking to. Understand that they're a real person. have real feelings and and like knocking them down doesn't isn't actually going to make you feel better in the in the long run so like the i think of a book that came from um that model came from but after having that realization i feel like if i can if i can follow that then the rest of my life will be will be that much better even in the short term i I have harder conversations. In the long run, I'll feel better about basically every aspect of my life, both personally and business.

Yeah, and I think right now we're in a weird time with Me Too and the shifting pendulum. Women and men are kind of like, there's a lot of sparks flying right now. You take some aggressive approaches on the Internet with that stuff. I do. You know why? It fires it up. Because I think that there's certain things that need to be discussed more often. And a lot of people

are afraid to even talk about masculine, feminine or Me Too stuff right now because it's so hot. Most guys are like, I don't want to go there. I feel like that also is a weird one because there's certain people that are looking for certain things and reactions. Man,

I hang out with a lot of women and not many of them are like i feel like i'm about to get raped all the time yeah like it just doesn't happen and then you turn on the news or you turn online and like the same seven people are arguing about like it's dangerous and i'm like where i'm looking around it looks very safe yeah but we operate and kind of live in a conscious space. Like in certain parts of the middle America, it's not this conversation at all. No, for sure. So there is that contrast. Find a new bubble.

My bubble is so safe. I like my bubble. My bubble is so – that Antonidas bubble is really tough. Mike Bledsoe won't leave there. So safe. Yeah. I don't know. So. I don't know. So I actually don't know much about Wellness Force Radio.

What's kind of the underlying premise behind the whole concept? Yeah, man. Wellness Force, you know, my discovery is I told you guys, like, I've been learning about me. So I'm discovering physical and emotional intelligence. And I've always believed, like, intelligence is the ability to gather and to apply. And so I really spend my time in the middle. Like, I'm not about just gathering info. I want to know, like, how you connect the dots to gather and to apply. And so I really spend my time in the middle. Like I'm not about just gathering info. I want to know like how you connect the dots of knowing and doing.

And so that's what the show is all about. And a lot of it honestly goes more to the emotional side because I feel like in order to actually want to train or do breathing or have some kind of a morning routine, there has to be an internal fire as to why the hell you want to do that in the first place. And that internal fire comes from a really unique place in most men and women so i love to interview like behavioral psychologists and people that are all about behavior change and connecting the dots of like actually how do you change your habits how do you do that yeah who are some of your favorite

interviews you know what guys i love gretchen rubin i don't know if you've heard of her work i have i've heard her on i've heard listen to her podcast a little bit and then I've listened to her on probably Tim Ferriss or Rogan, one or the other. Yes. Her and Tom Bilyeu were probably my favorite interviews because they have just this resilience but yet they're not rude. They're just strong and this strong presence

when it comes to like, no, this is actually the way that I've learned through my research and my experience and the way that I articulate it the trust, the power that they both had, both Gretchen and Tom, when they speak. There's a bit of trusting, especially Tom. If you listen to Tom speak, he almost has a little bit of anger in his voice. You see him online. I think some of that is because he's trying to motivate people.

But he's like that off the camera and off the mic as well. He's just a driven dude. Gets up at like 430 in the morning. Maybe he fasts three, four times a month, like full keto. He does a lot of suffering practices himself. But I think those are the two guests, man. I really enjoyed their presence because Gretchen still has this ability to be a woman. She's so powerful and strong. And look how many people she's leading towards a better life. I think millions of copies of her books have been sold. What's her book again?

There's Happier, Happier Than Before. And then there's another one that I'm blanking on the name right now. Oh, the four, there's four ways that people understand their types, personality types. Her book is called The Four Tendencies. Gotcha. That's the one I've read. Yeah, The Four Tendencies. So, obliger is what I am.

Obliger does better with external frameworks for accountability. So, like, for me, like, how I maintain my focus on my life and my health Obliger is what I am. Obliger does better with external frameworks for accountability. So for me, how I maintain my focus on my life and my health is for Wellness Force, all the people that I talk to, because I do well with that. But then there's people that are upholders. Upholders are the ones where they don't need any external framework. They're just driven from the middle. They do whatever they do.

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Back to the show. Is it kind of like the love languages where you may be a physical touch person, but you also need like the, you're a little bit of each as in like the whole pie, but maybe like 60% one. Yeah, I think we all overlap. Like you're not going to put me in a box, although we always want to. Isn't it interesting whenever we meet people, we always want to know like, oh, what do you do and who are you? So we can log in our subconscious.

That's why these things are so cool. But that's not who the fuck we are, man. We're not just like somebody that you meet and like get put into a box yet. That's why the podcasting thing is so cool. Because you can actually have a full conversation with a human. Yeah, man. You get them past their thing that they're easy, comfortable talking about. And then it's like, oh, here we go.

But I, you know, with Wellness Force, man, I really talk to women. Like 60% of the audience is women. And so when I'm asking questions, even in our conversation, I'm thinking, what would my grandma or my mom or if I had a sister, if they were standing right here, would they vibe on what we're talking about? Do you think that the more emotionally in touch us male people are, we lose the ego and the masculinity that may make us special? That's a powerful question.

I'm serious. Yeah. I think that especially in this bubble that we live in, where everyone is in this personal development, it's like we all had this ego for a long time, and we listened to it for a really long time. Paul Jack calls it like the warrior phase. And then all of a sudden it's like, I was wrong.

Now I have to become, now I'm in touch. No. And it's like, no, you don't have to pay 100% attention to the alpha-driven ego, but don't lose your masculinity. Right. Don't be a fucking savage. I actually think, and people are going to be like, fuck you, and I don't really care. Masculinity right now is under attack.

It really is. Like, especially when you look at the major outlets of news media. If you look at the conversations and how they're shifted, even the phrase, guys, even the phrase toxic masculinity. Like, what the hell does that even mean to be a toxic masculine? You can be a toxic feminine, too. There's so many good words that they use for this stuff. But the answer to your question is no. I think the ego is actually our amigo.

And I forgot where. I think it was in an NLP course. I've never heard anyone fucking say that before. The ego is my amigo. ego is actually our amigo. And I forgot where, I think it was in an NLP course. I've never heard anyone fucking say that before. The ego is my amigo. The ego is our amigo. We don't want to smash. If we didn't have any amigo or any ego, then we'd be like bland white toast with no butter. There'd be no spice to our soup.

We wouldn't actually enjoy life. Now we've got all the metaphors going. No, I'm just like, we have to have, but there is. Do you have a wellness for a shirt that says that my ego is my ego? That's a good tight shirt. I fucking need one of those. I'll buy it. But Anders is like, yeah, we have to have some touch to it.

But I think there's some practices that we can do to have mild ego stripping, psychedelics, maybe physical thresholds being breached that can take us to being less in the ego driver seat. So where the ego is not just driving us. I mean, look, sometimes the ego can make people really successful but like you know you can be kind of an asshole and so what if you're successful yeah then what does that mean there's better ways to do it than just steamrolling people with like the over masculine ego side of it but man that is the driverone is super important to driving success. Yeah. Like you're not going to – Rogan had somebody on or talked about somebody that had –

that like did not have testosterone. What do you mean? He was like very either lacking in it or his body wasn't producing it or something. And he said he would just wake up and there was no feelings. He had no drive to do anything there was just whatever just as bland of a life as you could possibly have it's like that's an important hormone to getting you up out of bed morning and trying to go kick some ass you got to go hunt why did he have low why did he have no testosterone i wish i knew the whole story by the

way if you have no testosterone like an anecdotal thing where i know like 20 of the story i just remember hearing it and being like oh that's weird well i'm curious man like what do you think about your question like how do you view the ego um so i i feel like i i've gone through a bit of a wave and it's about also the people that i'm around all the time right like i i do really well with strong female personalities um and being in business with Teresa, she's a very strong female personality, and I have no problem kind of paying like a second fiddle to that. And I think that strong, badass women are a force. Yeah.

And you learn a whole lot about kind of like that feminine badassery that they carry with them like they're like these these like creatures that hold way more power than they know about and if you can tap into that it's really cool and like be around it um and it really reshapes the way you think and feel and it's it's super cool but i also found that um i'm really into talking about behavioral health, but I also think that people need to wake up and fucking get after their life. And, yo, have an ego. It's okay to, like, walk out and be like, I'm trying really hard to be good at this.

And that's an egotistical statement. Like, I'm telling you I want to be very good at something. It matters to me that I'm winning. Like, that's not like a passive, like, oh, we should all just get along. And, man, I'm really in touch with my emotional, my chakras are really firing today. Yes. Like, I've spent the last 12 years in yoga. And, man, we can all just, it's like no i i want to be good and i want to and in

order to do that like that's a that's a very masculine thing to me like it's it's driven out of a competitiveness that i have to want to be better i remember talking to you about getting your name on i think it was like john cena's gym like the door for like a certain weight and that your ego by the way is what drove you to succeed in athletics yeah so in a way like it's a beautiful thing but yet it's also what drove you towards injury and then when you have that i think we all go through like an injury a death in the family like some kind of event that jolts the shit out of us and then it's like okay let me actually put my ego in check so the question this is the this is the deeper question was the ego the actual thing that made you successful, or was it a combination of your ego and your soul? Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. Things I can't grab, I don't know. We both were like, I don't know. The soul. You guys should have seen Doug. I was like, Anders, you answer that one. Yeah. Well, I think that the reason something happens where we get injured or there's a death or something like that,

all of a sudden you're instantly hit with a whole bunch of emotions and feelings all at once. And you have no idea what's happening with you, so you have to check in. You've got to figure out what the hell's going on. And that's part of the wave that I've probably been through in the last three, four, five years, whatever it is. There's a whole bunch of injuries. I'm leaving this CrossFit world. I'm leaving my gym. I'm leaving this CrossFit world. I'm leaving my gym. I'm leaving best friends.

Like the number of breakups that are like very large happening in my life all at one time, and you're filled with anger and resentment and just all of like the things that go into that loss. And you're not going to be able to steamroll those emotions. You have to go deal with them. And that is, I think, where a lot of the meditation comes in with a lot of people. And if you can find them in a place where they're dealing with it. You actually asked me a question the other day on Instagram

of how do you get people to meditate or something like that and work on breath work without them wanting to do it. And you have to catch them in the right space it's like everything i can't shove strength and conditioning down someone's throat that doesn't want to get stronger so yeah it's all of it is just about timing like they have to want to be a student and you have to want to you hopefully find them as their teacher and then you can get a hold of their brain space and teach them how to slow down and learn about vulnerability and learn about emotions. But you're not going to be able to show.

There's nothing worse than walking up to something. I would not have been able to have a business that was based around mindfulness and movement in the rehab space if people weren't somewhat interested in realizing that banging weights all day long isn't the answer and there's another way to do it. And then they're like, I wonder what it is. Oh, Anders talks about that all the time.

And now we can talk about breath work. Now we can talk about slowing down. You can talk about emotions. And we can also lift weights and combine it all together. I think that's why people love your show because you talk about strength manly things athletic performance and emotional intelligence like this is all the drivers of what makes kind of i guess the masculine really a powerful force is like being in touch with all those things and the women listening as well how much do you guys focus on the emotional part on barbell shrugged and actually in this whole in

this whole collective that you have the shrug collective like is there a genuine focus for specific shows or even on barbell about emotional intelligence certainly more than there used to be but we don't we don't we haven't the best my knowledge done any show specifically on that we did a little more with barbell business actually on on that topic when we're talking about sales and marketing and understanding the perspective of another person and being empathic to to their perspective that way you can connect you know where they're at in their life to the things that you offer and make sure that it's actually a good fit for both parties. But not quite as much on Barbell Shrugged.

If I reinterpret your question from a second ago, the ego versus soul thing, kind of the way that I've been thinking about that since you said it was, everyone in every choice or decision you make in life, there are positive and negative drivers of those decisions. There's kind of like the love-based, positive, I'm doing this for positive reasons. I'm doing it to be a better person because I like who I am. And then there's like, if I say the ego is like the negative side of it, where you're doing it out of fear. You want just because you don't think you're good enough and you want other people to like you,

all those things are going to be simultaneously competing for your attention. The more emotionally stable and happy you are in your life, the more honest you are, the more respectful you are to other people, the more you're kind of true to yourself, like we talked about earlier, the more likely you are in that case to be doing things for positive reasons and not be doing them out of fear and frustration and anger. You're a pretty even-keeled guy. You seem to be operating from the middle in the most part,

like not too sad, not too happy and screaming. Have you always been like that? Yeah, I was very fortunate. I had a very stable, happy upbringing. My parents never told me what to do. And like I said earlier, and that was, I think, just so incredibly good for me because when someone doesn't tell me what to do, the underlying assumption there to me is that they trust that I i know what to do yeah that means they they think highly of me they

respect me and they think i'm intelligent and and all those things and so um in that case i never wondered if my parents you know thought i was was going to be good enough to pull something off like to to go to college or to start a company or to compete you know at a high level in any athletics like i just assumed that they thought it was good enough because they were like oh that sounds cool go do it like we believe in you i always felt like they believed in me and having that upbringing you know it has just made life so much easier because i don't have all these like negative belief systems about myself that that stem from early childhood that i can't shake in in my my

later years my little years so Damn, that's so true. I'm very lucky in that respect. Thank you for telling me that, man, because I can totally feel that from you now. Yeah. I think of the emotional intelligence stuff that we talk about a lot on the show really is the story. Like we could tell you, like you go through business and you go through training and you go through life and you could just talk about the the medals and the things you've conquered yeah but there's no good story to it until you start at the beginning and it's like we were here we worked really hard here's what we learned about

ourselves here's the pitfalls and then here's how we overcame it and how we grew as people the emotional intelligence piece is like the growing piece of the entire story yeah and i think the more hardships that we experience from an emotional perspective the more capacity we have as somewhat of a leader or an influencer to speak from that space like i left fitness and wellness for three years and went to a technology space and sold uh tech registration software for active.com for like races and marathons. Cause I was like, Oh, I don't want to train clients anymore and count reps. And like, I'm just tired of holding space for people in sessions, which I think a lot of trainers get to,

but I got to this place where I was like, shit, man, I don't exactly know what I want to do next, but I know it's not this. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Like David Dita calls it like the space between purposes. Sometimes your purpose is to be still and figure out your fucking purpose. And that's your purpose right now. And then I took a break and I actually got fired from active.com, which was a beautiful gift. It was actually events. I got,

it was events.com. And then, and then I started wellness forest, dude. That was what being fired was the greatest gift of my life because it actually brought me back to an industry that I've always loved, that I've always felt at home in, but I was scared of my actual power and actually brought me back to an industry that I've always loved that I've always felt at home in

but I was scared of my actual power and I didn't have that emotional intelligence yet I wasn't willing to stand in my truth dude that's really what it was

I try to tell people that when I fire them this is the greatest gift that anyone's ever going to give me but they never believe me that is real it's a fucking joke

you want to talk about the emotional intelligence piece that is one of the things that I'm like super geeked out on because in the last two years I've had to, well, I've sold one business, got bought out of another, and now I'm in this one. And as you leave and say goodbye to all these things, it's so easy like i just think about like the number of things and people i've had to break up with in the last two and a half years of my life is more than i've ever had to encounter like ever in my life but every time it happens i fill that space with something that is like wildly more positive and what is like sets the trajectory so much higher in my career and my life and my friendships like everything is better but Getting fired. Yeah hurts it hurt and you're pissed off

Oh and you got to move past it and Fill that space with something that actually creates a ton of value in your life You know what though there was a small part of me that felt so relieved because I think on a deeper level there was like An awareness that shit I was I wasn't enjoying this anyways this was this isn't who i am so it was like getting fired was a gift although it's like as spartan talks about like how am i changing my frame of reference uh my frame of reference i didn't even know what that was back then uh but but for you guys like have you ever jumped off a cliff or been pushed off a cliff and you're like falling and you think i don't exactly know if this parachute's gonna open or or what like either in business or you think, I don't exactly know if this parachute is going to open or what.

Like either in business or in life. I don't know, Doug. You seem like you've always had your shit together. But has that ever happened to you, man? Well, I kind of have always had my shit together. But that's not actually always a good thing, I don't think. Because if you're used to always having it all together, then you don't jump into spaces where you don't have it all together. Like you're used to always having it all together, then you don't jump into spaces where you don't have it all together, like you're saying.

So that's actually one of the reasons that I tend to partner with people who are very entrepreneurial, who are very proactive, who like to jump into the void because I won't do it myself. And so I need those other people around me. I choose to have those other people around me because to start a new business or a new product line or whatever, depending on what it is, there's a certain amount of uncertainty there and I don't deal as well at that as some other people do, like Bledsoe or even Anders here.

And so I partner with those people because I know they're better at that particular thing than I am. I do better when there's an established way of doing things and we can make it more efficient and we can scale it and we can make it big, but when we're kind of floating in the middle, searching for a business model, so to to speak i don't do as well there i do great when i know exactly what i'm going to go to and i can see the exact logistics of the path but if we're

just like oh this will not do that anymore and then we'll go figure it out i don't do as well there bletzer does great there and so i that's when i kind of turn it over to him i say this is this is your time to shine figure out what we're going to do next and next and then I'll grab a hold of it and we can push forward. Would you say that your deepest edge of emotional intelligence that you're leaning into is being uncertain and partnering with people that don't care? I don't know if I'd phrase it all in that particular way. But I think it's very important for everyone to know what they're good at and what they're not good at. And to be honest with themselves about, I'm not good at this i gotta find someone else that can help me with that piece because even if i get better i'm never gonna be great like we're all on a spectrum we can

all get better but some people start in a different spot on that spectrum than others you know it's easy to frame that in the physical realm some people the first time they bench press ever they bench press three wheels 315 they. They just can. They started further down that spectrum than a lot of other people. But there's people that started benching 150 that with a lot of training got to 450. So with training, you can get past those people that have more natural talent. But if that guy that started at 315 trains, he can mesh 900. So it just kind of depends on where you're at on that spectrum. In the world of business, with these things that are more intangible, like how well do you deal with uncertainty, that's not as quantifiable as bench press. Well, it's hard to quantify any emotional practice, really.

Right. So with all these things that need to be going right all at the same time within the realm of business or any other category, it's hard to know exactly where you fall. And for me, being around someone like Bledsoe for 10 years as business partners, I understand him very, very well. And he understands me very, very well. We know what we're good at. We know what the other person is good at. And if it's in my realm, I take it and run with it. And if it's in his realm, he takes it and runs with it. And then we don't have to worry about it. What do you think about these Myers-Briggs, these personality tests? Do you believe in those when you hire people? Have you done those for

yourself? We've done all those things. None of them are infallible, of course, but they do give you a beat on where somebody's at. If you take a Colby score and you look at, you know, how you do work versus like a Myers-Briggs personality type, you know, are you introverted, extroverted, etc. versus like the five, kind of the five big personality traits, openness, conscientiousness, extroverted etc versus like the five kind of the five big personality traits openness conscientiousness extroversion agreeableness and neuroticism which is kind of what most clinical psychologists psychiatrists really feels like the most the most valid one because it wasn't just a made-up categorization and then you stick people in the categorizations

like it was actual like real meta-analysis or whatever it is to like figure out all the correlations between different whatever, whatever, whatever. There's science behind it. I don't know all the science, but that's the one that people tend to gravitate towards as the real test you should be doing. But we've done all those things. Again, they shouldn't determine who you are.

And if you it turns out it says you're introverted, it doesn't mean, oh shit, now that I identify as an introvert, I can't talk to other people. Yes. It's also such a floating scale on those things, too. Well, yeah, they're all on a spectrum, like we just said.

But they do help give a good idea of kind of who you're dealing with in a very short period of time. It's like doing a fitness or mobility assessment on someone before you train them. At that point, you kind of know what you're working with. It doesn't mean you can't change the things that you found. You certainly can. But it gives you a beat on what you're dealing with.

You know what would be really cool? If somebody created like an emotional FMS, right? Like there was something for the physical where we can test mobility. To have somebody go through an emotional test, what do you guys think that might look like? I'm just spitballing here. What's the hardest thing you've ever done? You're like, that's not the hardest thing in the world.

You're a four. We need to create more struggle for you. Or what if it's how people judge situations, like people's empathy. Like one of the things Peterson talks about is agreeableness. Like men are typically less agreeable than women. Women are typically more agreeable. So this is why the data shows that women tend to make less

money and not be in as high-powered positions. But I think that that's a floating scale as well. And I'm kind of like understanding now that a lot of us... Oh, what's up, Marion? Picture time goes really well on podcasts. Oh, jump in. Oh, dude, we got Seed Hunter. The Seed Huntress.

Sephora the Seed Huntress has shown up. Marion, the most artistic, loving, amazing producer. Blessings, all people. Where are you going to be? We've only been talking for like 30 minutes. Yo, girl. All right, come back in like 10 minutes.

She's like, fuck. He's trying to get rid of me. Where are you going to be? Boom, boom, boom. Cool. She's pure energy. She's like, fuck. He's trying to get rid of me. Where are you going to be? Boom, boom, boom. Cool. Of course. Everywhere. She's pure energy.

She's everywhere. That's Sephra the Seed Huntress. You can find her at Sephra the Seed Huntress. Seedhuntress.com. Also the co-host of the Spartan Up podcast. Yes, yes. Hello. That's a big one.

And Marion. She's super awesome, too. Look at all this up. Come on, man. You want to talk about freaking characters that we've all been. Do you leave all that in the shows? Yeah. Just leave it in.

Just leave it in. Nice. This is real life. This is why we come to these events. So when people walk by, it's like, oh, cool people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Go watch Spartan Up.

Have you been on Spartan Up? Yeah. Okay. You've been on it. I actually have not been on it, but Joe's been on our show. Yeah. Yes. Let's go back to that agreeable thing because i feel like that is a floating scale um i've been with women that are like not as agreeable and i

actually like that i actually like it when a woman's a little bit less agreeable not to the point where she's trying to domineer anything but how do you guys view this agreeable and not agreeable thing i think there's a lot to that actually we're good at this we talk about this one all the time together we do uh i'm actually high agreeable myself uh and again there's pros and cons to everything you need to understand where high agreeable can be a very good thing and where high agreeable is tends not to be a very good thing i think being high agreeable to your point like jordan peters talks about that a lot where people that are high agreeable tend to that that's negatively correlated with success people that like fuck no this is what i want i'm not doing what you want to do. No way.

People that say, okay, whatever you want to do, they just aren't as successful. They don't make as much money because they don't negotiate as hard. They don't end up doing the projects that they want to do that they're as passionate about because there's a lot more of a fight that it might take to get to be the leader of a certain project in whatever context. I don't know if I can necessarily change that specifically. I think it's all on a sliding scale, and I can get better at that. But I bring that back to what I talked about earlier.

I know that I'm high agreeable, and there are certain things in business where it's not good to be agreeable. Well, do I have someone on my team who's a better person to negotiate this particular thing than me who is? I can tell them exactly what we want, and then they can go negotiate it. And I can't get drawn into, oh, okay, now I see your perspective. We'll do what you want to do. What was it about Anders specifically that you and Mike and the whole business wanted

to bring him on the show for? What was it about him specifically? This is so, I like kicking it with Anders. At like the most basic level, like we just fucking have a great time together. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how this relates to the to the personality types necessarily but andrew's actually fairly fairly high agreeable too i think i feel like mike is as well like i tend to get

along with people who are are pretty agreeable as well um if someone's super disagreeable and i'm high agreeable there's a lot of conflict there and i'm just like fuck i can't hang out with that guy like he just everything i say he's like no i don't think so and i'm like oh fuck just like it it it drags me down a little bit they're probably less agreeable than i am but um but if they were super disagreeable then i wouldn't get along with them as well i i probably fit in in the in the middle of them very well i can um doug and i do really well on the business side of this thing and uh i also like to get creative and be a little bit i jumped into the void like you earlier you were asking like uh i don't remember what was uh

jumping off the cliff without knowing where who's gonna catch you i've been doing that for a very long time like my entire life um that actually is like one of the situations in which i feel the most comfortable because you're creating chaos and what you're able to then create a nice path out of that chaos. Yeah, I mean, I left home so early that it was like I went into a structured environment, but in my brain it was like, oh my gosh, I just left home. I have no friends. I don't know who to trust. And one of the coolest skills I think that came out of that and every time since then that I have jumped off the cliff and not really known where I was going to land or be caught, hopefully, when you do that enough and you get

really comfortable with it, you read people really well. And who's a good person to be next to. Who do you want to learn from? You get a really good vibe off of people. And you can feel if they're really interested in your success. When you walk into the Mind Pump house last night, everybody is there to elevate everyone else. And when you get into a room and everyone is like that, if there's one person that isn't playing at that level, it's so obvious.

You can feel it. It's just like a random bad person in the corner. Yeah. And I think that the more you jump and the more you meet bad people or people that aren't aligned with you, you can kind of make a skill out of being in the right rooms with the right people that everyone is trying to make everyone better i think the reason i asked why were you on the show is because i think there's this ability for you that i've experienced and i haven't known you too long yeah but it's this between agreeable and disagreeable i think you do have your foot in

both like i don't see you as a dick but i know you could be a dick if you wanted to be. I could definitely do that. That's how I feel about you. Well, I think when I was CEO of my gym, I was more of a dick because it had to be my way. And now I work with two people that I think are genuinely like the best. They invented this whole effing thing. Like they laid the path for everyone that's talking on a mic right now and talking about fitness. It's actually really true. I didn't think about that. So I'm literally partners with the two people that I consider to be the best at what we do. Why would I walk into any conversation and think I know things?

Like, I've got a really good idea, but, look, let's hammer this thing out and let's figure out, like, I'll let you guys lead the conversation, and I'll bring what I like to think is a really good opinion and a lot of experience to the conversation as well. But I don't need to come in and steamroll a conversation because I'm already working with the people that are the best at what they do and have this endless experience and I'm very appreciative and lucky to be in that situation. I feel like we should do a group hug right now. You're fucking smashing it, by the way.

Thanks, dude. Keep it up, dude. Hell yeah. What are you guys looking forward to, though? You're curious about more interviews, 500 more shows, 1,000 more shows. I'll tell you. How does the hunger stay there? I'll tell you.

A billion downloads. Think about that one. How many lives are you affecting if you have a billion downloads? At least hundreds of millions. Yeah, you got 10 years. 2028, a billion downloads. I think about it a lot. I think about it all the time.

But that's an extrinsic. What about an intrinsic? I mean, the show is going to get better because in order to get there, our shows are going to get significantly better. We have to become a clearer, more concise concise message but it's also a network now yeah we're allowed to have we're allowed to develop talent it doesn't have to be we don't have to be right we can let other people live their own little truths and authentic messages and cultivate their talent i think the intrinsics would be that should be the deep motivator. The extrinsic stuff is just a kind of a reality of life.

You have bills to pay and things like that, and you have to do that, so you have to make a certain amount of money to make sure that you're not homeless and all that. But for this, I would do this no matter what. Regardless, if we were making zero money, I'd still be like, fuck, how can we podcast today? Just because I really enjoy it. I like hanging out, having these long-form conversations. And I don't think it'll happen in the same way if you're not on microphones.

The fact that we can dig into a deep conversation where we're talking to each other, but we're not talking to each other. We're talking to an audience while talking to each other. We'll explain things in a slightly different way. We'll dig in deeper on topics and start'll explain things in a slightly different way. We'll, we'll, we'll dig in deeper on topics and start from the ground up in a different way that this doesn't seem to happen in my, in most regular conversations.

And like, what are the chances that I've known you for two years? When was the last time we sat and just talked straight for an hour? I've got to know you more now than any other time. Right. And so I'm a, I'm a person who I'm, I'm quite introverted at times,

less so than I used to be when I was younger. And I don't tend to connect with people really, really quickly outside of kind of like what I was talking about earlier, like going for like a five-hour race. Like I have all that time to connect with somebody, doing something physical that I really, really enjoy. But in day-to-day life, it's rare that I'll just sit down and talk to me for an hour or two hours like it just doesn't happen so I like to have a condition like podcasting where I systematically will automatically speak with somebody yeah often a new person that I've been I'm really interested to talk to that I've never met before in some cases for like three hours and then walk away at the beginning they may be not knowing them at all and like four hours later i think they're my buddy yeah i think i

don't do that in any other way this format like i do a lot of writing and i hate reading things that aren't well written and this format in a long form is like doing good writing and that you have to have very you have to have a good vocabulary you have to have very, you have to have a good vocabulary. You have to have good sentence structures. There has to be like a clear message. And if it doesn't, it rambles. There's no actual cohesion to what's happening. The whole thing doesn't flow because you've got somebody that doesn't really have their thoughts dialed in and who they are. And then you've got two other people that are really dialed in. Well, that third person sounds like an idiot. So when everyone's on here together and you get really good at communicating

and you're doing the self-work to get better at expressing yourself, now all of a sudden we've got good vocab. We've got good sentence structure. We've got a really intelligent conversation where if we were, like, at the house last night, it's, like, kind of bro-y. Yes. Like, everybody's hanging out and it's super fun. But it's not this like, hey, I'm trying to find the truth of what's going on in this circle right now.

I've always felt that podcasting is a giving offering. And I loved how you said, yeah, we're having this deep, intimate conversation. But we're also having it with everyone listening. And that in itself is an act of service. It's an act of giving. And I think that's the part that when I'm feeling like shit. Earlier, I used to do all my own edits my first year of podcasting. It was like, it was hard, man.

Do you think about people that are listening while you're doing it? No, not in particular. I'm aware. But I understand that when I'm explaining something, I'm not explaining it to you, Anders, because you don't know. I'm explaining it to an audience that may not know. Like if I'm talking about energy systems, I know you already know. But I'm explaining it to an audience that may not know like if i'm talking about if i'm talking about energy systems i know you already know but i'm saying it all again anyway and if we're in regular conversation and i was explaining it like i do on a show you'd be like why are you saying this to me you know that i know that like why are you saying that and so it's it's

just it's subtly different and because you're on a show say say we just met i can ask you a fucking real question a deep question question that if we weren't on a show, you'd be like, that's kind of intrusive. I don't really know you. Who are you and why are you asking me this fucking crazy personal question? I'm asking you questions about your family. Right. And so on the show, I want to have a real conversation.

I don't want to have a small talk conversation with anybody for the most part. I want to have only real, meaningful, cool, fun conversations. And so the show, that's all you're going to do on the show. This medium makes you hate small talk. I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that.

My, when I, so I live in a condo complex and there's one driveway that services eight double, two car garages. And the neighbors will come into the driveway to talk to each other and i i hate

talk small talk so much i will drive through their conversations and the normal nice person thing to do would to park your car and go say hello to the neighbors i will close the garage door because i i get so freaked out because i i either don't want to it's i don't want to have the small talk and then i kind of don't want to have the small talk, and then I kind of don't want to go deep either, because then we're going to have to really get into it. So I just exclude myself from all conversation. Well, I actually feel the same way you do.

I get viscerally upset when someone's talking about Kim Kardashian's puppy sweater. Oh, yeah. Or something where I'm thinking to myself, and even, guys, I don't know how big you are in sports, even sports can fall into that category. I hate it. All they thinking to myself, and even like, guys, I don't know how big you are in sports. Even sports can fall into that category. I hate it. Where people, all they want to do is talk about basketball and football. And it's just like, does that even impact your fucking life at all? I was at a wedding two weeks ago.

We just talked about it for an hour. I was at a wedding two weeks ago. And they were talking about the NFL and fantasy football. And I was like, all I could think was you're all wasting your life. Stop it. And then two, they were like, they asked me something. I was like, I don't know five people in the NFL. Yes.

And they were giving me like all the clues, and we got to six. Like that is such a small number where there's people that, I mean, at one point in my time I could probably name you entire baseball teams, like when I cared a lot. But, man, when you sit down and realize how many people waste their life away on Sunday watching six to eight hours of football and drinking six beers. Meaning. Both of you guys have always struck me as people that want meaning and that embody meaning.

So I would love to ask you my signature question, even though we're doing our shows together. Wellness. What's your definition of wellness? I would love to know, Doug. How do you see wellness in your life, man? How would you define wellness? I could take that question in many different directions, but I think if the combination of all the different aspects of your life,

wellness within the physical, emotional, psychological, if you feel like you have inner peace, so to speak, like you have clarity of thought, you're not distracted and lost in thought, you're not constantly thinking about the past and having anxiety about the future then then that's like that's true wellness if you can be at peace with yourself and you're just you're just kind of content day to day uh and you're not you're not constantly in a thought loop of frustration anger etc then then that's true wellness you can be fit and healthy and lean and look great and fucking hate yourself at the same time or the opposite you know you can you can you can be like totally chill so happy and be physically unhealthy i don't

think it's a good idea to do um but i think that's your inner state really is the most important thing because if you're like i said if you're fit but like you're just chronically unhappy then why why does it matter that you're fit you fucking feel like shit all the time so ideally you're maximizing all these categories you are in shape you're eating healthy food you're gonna live a long time and you have you have healthy relationships etc um and you have that that deep inner peace how do you see it man uh dude everything i think about now is this is like the i would say this is the newest definition that i've got and the floating understanding of what fitness and wellness is. But the three things of attention, intention, and manifestation.

So the things that you're paying attention to. What are you doing in your free time? Where is your brain when you're on your phone? Like what are you reading? What are you learning about? How do you feel about those things? Like do they bring fulfillment on your phone? What are you reading? What are you learning about? How do you feel about those things? Do they bring fulfillment to your life? Is it aligned with what you should be doing?

If you're doing fantasy football and watching the Kardashians, it's probably not bringing a lot of fulfillment to what you're doing. So you don't feel great about your decisions and your actions. And then the manifestation is that you're going to, how do you express it that is the creation the action side of creating your own life um so yeah anytime i'm in a place i'm like the things that i do i'm here i'm with you i'm always around people that are trying to be very very good at what do. So my attention is always focused around people that are trying to be very high achievers. So I don't have a choice.

I'm either going to be a very high achiever or I'm going to get kicked out of the group, which would totally suck. You wouldn't want me around if I wasn't trying really hard to be great. And I feel awesome about that. My intention on my own life is so just, I feel like I've been at this for 22 years in the gym and eight, nine years professionally doing this. And I'm

finally get to a point where I get to hang out with Doug and be a professional. That's incredible. Like I just started, who knows where this thing's going. Yeah. Um, like I'm, I'm finally in a place where I'm actually capable of being around the people that I want to be working with at the highest level that have already been there, know how to get there, and have built this respect and trust. Like, if that isn't fulfilling to your life, that your entire life, the thing you've been doing more than anything else in your life, and at 35 years old, now I'm in a place where I get to go like, oh shit, we can turn the afterburners on right now and light this thing on fire. Like, let's go. It's like all of the dreams have manifested into this moment, being at Spartan, being able to be around all the people, being on the road with him, like being a part of the Shrug Collective.

Like, it all happened. Why? Well, because I think about it all the time. I'm around the people that are capable of showing me the way. Yeah. And I do it every single day of my life. And that's wellness, dude. Be around the people.

Feel good about it. Fulfillment in your life and taking action to continue making that path happen. That's a deep answer, man. We went deep. This has a deep answer, man. We went deep. This has been so fun, guys. I see wellness differently now than I ever have because I know that physical and emotional are big, but the more I've explored the intelligence of physical and emotional, the more I actually learn about the spiritual.

And so that's a whole different show. But I think spiritual health is also... We're going to have to have a seed hunter or something. Yeah, like spiritual and faith is a big deal. But thanks, guys. This has been so dope, man. Dig it. At Wellness Force. Where can people find you? Yeah, like spiritual and faith is a big deal. But thanks, guys. This has been so dope, man. Dig it. At Wellness Force.

At Wellness Force. Yeah, wellnessforce.com. Wellness Force Radio. Just pretty much Wellness Force. Trent underscore SD. Trent underscore SD, but also Wellness Force. I have two IG accounts. That's a big one.

Right on, man. You can find me on Instagram, Douglas E. Larson. I also have my own site, douglarsonfitness.com. Check that out. And we do Barbell Strug every Wednesday, sometimes Saturdays, most Saturdays lately. Most Saturdays. Now we do Technique Quad every Sunday if you want to learn how to lift weights. I have about 140-ish episodes on how to lift weights.

Go check it out. Get into iTunes, like, subscribe, leave a comment. Actually, read the comments. So whoever doesn't like me saying the word gangster, get used to it. Because I've been saying that my whole life. And I'm 35 now. And I'm still using the word gangster. So whatever.

Screw you. It still has power. Yeah. That was gangster. That was so gangster. Get into the Shrug Collective at Shrug Collective on all the things. Get signed up for our email list. Six shows a week.

Technique WOD on Sunday. Over a million downloads a month. We're crushing life. Thanks for having us on your show and thanks for being on ours all at the same time thanks for the mutual we finally did it we totally finally did it it only took a year and a half so good no i really appreciate the work you do and this was super special so thanks for having me very cool you guys next wednesday how long was that, bro? Hour 15. All right. Damn. That was...

Damn. That was... Damn. That was... Damn. That was... Damn. That was...

Damn. Thank you guys for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed it. I'm such a huge fan of Josh Trent. Make sure you get over and follow him over at Law and Sports Radio and Trent underscore SD on Instagram. Also, 12 programs, $47 a month. Anywhere from Olympic lifting, getting shredded, mass gain, and CrossFit.

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Doug Larson Fitness because my man's got everything you want over there to make you eat better and get more stretchy and move better because that's what he does. Like a jillion technique logs later, he's got all the answers. We are going to see you next week with Ravi Chander, Ra of the Earth, the artist formerly known as Ronnie Teasdale.

And he's going to be doing an Instagram takeover to see how weird his life gets. I appreciate you all for tuning in. Thank you for letting me steal some of your brain space on the way to work, on your family vacation, wherever you're listening. I appreciate you. I'll see you guys on Wednesday.