Barbell Shrugged - Fueling Your Workouts: Pre, Peri, and Post Workout Nutrition w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #589

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   How close to your workout should you eat? What are the most important macros for the best workouts Why is the post workout window so important How long is the post workout window Do you need calories while you are training?   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, we are talking about how you should be fueling your workouts pre-intra and post-workout nutrition. In this episode, we are going to talk about how close to your workout you should be eating, what are the most important macros, proteins, fats, and carbs to fuel your workouts, and why the post-workout window is so important, how long this post-workout window actually exists, and do you need the calories while you are training. But before we get into the show, the Diesel Dad 21-Day Challenge launched today. You know what that means?

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its calming cell sleep enhancing effects that's why i recommend magnesium breakthrough by bio optimizers simply take two capsules before you go to bed and you'll be amazed at how much better you sleep and how much more rested you feel when you wake up for an exclusive offer to barbell shrug listeners go to magbreakthrough.com forward slash shrugged and use the code shrugged10 during checkout to save 10%. magbreakthrough.com forward slash shrugged. M-A-G-B-R-E-A-K-T-H-R-O-U-G-H.com forward slash shrugged. And make sure you use the code shrugged10 at checkout. Friends, let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner. Doug Larson, Coach Travis Smash.

Fellas, today is Doug Larson's birthday. Happy birthday. I bet he has thousands and thousands of people on Facebook right now writing on his wall that he has not talked to in decades. I just saw somebody like one minute ago post on my wall. She always posts on my wall from high school. I was not even friends with her at all, but like she very consistently over the years always sends happy birthdays just once a year. I have no idea why she is so consistent. That happens with a ton of people. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to be talking about pre-workout, peri-workworkout and post-workout nutrition we may

even get them to some good supplements just sharing our favorite pre-workout sub stories because if you don't have one of those well you're just not trying hard enough um doug larson you're one year away from 40 no no no are you 38 right now deuce yep oh you're i'm a month older than you that's right i thought you were older than me look at that we're always the same age except for one month so i assumed it rad um dude did you think throwing me on the bus 40 a year early did you think that 40 do you remember when your your dad turned 40 yeah i thought he was old and here i am 48 yeah i know really old right i remember like 40 being like a huge party as if my dad had like reached some level of old that like

you just you're never coming back there's no way you'll like your life is basically over at this point we're gonna celebrate it my perception of 40 now is radically different than when I was 20. I thought I would, I thought I would feel like way different than I do. I feel like I'm the same person I've always been. I just happen to have this, this different number attached to my name. Yeah.

Well also if you get to get on this podcast and hang out with your bros and talk about lifting weights every single week you're basically doing the same shit you were doing you were 15 you just got a little bit more knowledge that's the way to do it people start a podcast with your friends just keep talking about the same thing you did when you were 15 and let's get it you don't have to worry about 40 that's the secret to life i don't know 40. That's the secret to life. I don't know if I really know the secret to life, but that's a really good one. Lift weights.

Lift weights with your friends. Talk about lifting weights with your friends. Publish podcasts about lifting weights with your friends. Put it on YouTube of you hanging out with your friends while you lift weights. Try and make some money while you do it. That's the secret serum. Should we talk about lifting weights? It's a system yes pre-workout nutrition we're gonna break this thing down pre peri and post um do you what's the what's the secret combination for uh proteins fats carbs and how people should think about

setting up their nutrition to prepare for training well in general you said protein fats and carbs in generally in general excuse me for uh pre post or perry uh work on nutrition you're really thinking about protein and carbohydrates fats aren't like a big part of that equation certainly healthy fats are important to have throughout the day and whatnot but as far as training and performance protein and carbohydrates specifically sugar and fast absorbing carbohydrates are are what people mostly focus on and then there's other supplements you know the easiest you know to cite are kind of like creatine beta alanine and then even potentially caffeine depending on how long your workouts are and all that. Caffeine can give you a little – even if it doesn't give you like a strength boost,

it might give you like a psychological motivational boost. Typically, you think caffeine is more for endurance stuff, but you can use it for strength stuff too. That's why it's in every single pre-workout basically there is. Unless it specifically says caffeine for like the main yeah caffeine is like the main ingredient most stimulant type supplements unless you're getting the black label off market right like the good stuff travis smash is out there using bitcoin because they don't even accept cash where he's buying pre-workouts. That's right. Yeah. If you're able to buy your pre-workout with just regular money, then you're really not trying.

You're trading programming. You're trading Bitcoin. You got crypto pre-workout. Whatever it takes. The super black market stuff, right? Oh, yeah. I want to go straight to your favorite pre-workout supplements i mean really it's just probably going to be um uh what's the the what's the one everyone gets probably have the right machine c4 c4 yeah i

don't you know i i've taken other things but I'm not going to admit to it here. But, like, yes. Now, everybody remembers old Jack. That's the one that, you know, everybody loves. Yeah, Jack 3D. Oh, we call it old Jack, but, yeah, Jack 3D. It was the best, man. Everyone I know PR'd the very first time they ever used it.

Everybody. Of course. Including myself. Yeah. I took something very close to a one-rep max that I had done the week before and took Jack 3D for the first time and hit it for a triple. Smashed it.

I was like, what was in that stuff? Yeah. That's going to be illegal soon. I remember like a 60 Minutes story came out about Jack 3D being like such a big seller on military bases and some people just like it was the first time i had seen like the actual uh compounds and and somebody explained that basically jack 3d is like one to two molecules away from

just being crystal meth yes it's just the real deal what was the one from bsn and oh explode uh there's they've each had their you know bsn that was the one that i i went straight to when i was just what's the the main ingredient in these is beta alan did you guys hear what matt frazier did to the world of beta alanine when he went on rogan no way dude every single supplement dealer in the world i call them dealers like they're selling drugs they basically are um every single supplement shop and distributor basically sold out of beta alanine immediately after matt frazier went on rogan and talked about taking beta alanine pre-workout. It was as if the CrossFit world's existed for 15 years

and didn't know that if you take beta alanine, your skin gets creepy crawlies inside your blood vessels, and your veins feel like they're going to explode, and you perform better. You're all antsy and all hyped up. What is that, Doug? What is it with the beta alanine i i know it has something to do with like you know optimal endurance but do you know how that yeah

yeah beta alanine so it's it's a supplement that is more geared toward muscular endurance than than like pure strength or or cardiovascular endurance so beta alanine is the rate limiting substrate in the production of intramuscular carnosine which is which is a buffer it buffers acidity and so if you can buffer acidity then it takes longer for you to get the pump and that lactic burn that that causes fatigue and so you can just do more reps with a set weight because you're you're buffering that acidity at a faster rate than normal right it takes a while for that to build up like you won't be fully saturated on beta alanine until you've taken it from what i remember from seeing studies on this you know probably 10 years ago now but it's like eight to ten weeks before you're fully saturated on it so it does take a little while to get the full effect um i don't know i don't know

if there's a way that you can load beta alanine. Usually, it's kind of like between three and six grams a day. You don't want to. It's hard to take a lot at one time. That's so bad. And you're going to shit your pants. Potentially, yeah. You are going to, especially for the first three weeks. That happened to my brother pretty bad.

In my brother's case, usually in beta alanine containers, they have like a one-gram scoop, which is phenomenally tiny compared to most scoopers. Protein powder scoopers would be like 30 grams or maybe create something to be like a five-gram one or whatever it is. So sometimes beta-alanine, they'll do like a one-gram scooper. So my brother bought beta-alanine for the first time, again, like a decade plus ago and uh didn't couldn't find the scooper and didn't didn't really know anything about it and so he just like well it says it says two scoops and so he just took a spoon and just did two scoops and like he probably had more like 20 or 30 like way too much and he said like his whole body was just completely on fire his face was like

just the pins and needles that you get when your arm falls asleep. It was just like all over his whole body and his feet and his hands and face. And then he was driving to the gym and like had to pull over, ran to a grocery store and just lit up their bathroom too much. Why, why does beta alanine make you go to the bathroom? Oh,

I have no idea. Um, and in fact, I haven't really heard that many people say that, but my, my brother's the only person I know that took way too much, and he said that happened to him. So I don't know if that's a total coincidence or if it's like a known thing. Syntax 6 and something else. That was like the first time I went all in on getting some real supplements and had enough money to buy anything except, what was Bill Phillips' product? EAS Myoplex. That was like –

I love that. Myoplex was so great in college because that was like a full meal. Yes. You get everything you needed. But then once I got out out i actually had enough dollars to go spend a hundred dollars a month on supplements i bought that's the the bsn stack and every one of my house like we all trained together and we would take it at 5 36 a.m because we were training in the mornings before work and we would take it at like 5 36 a.m and then we'd go back to sleep

and then 20 minutes later after it kicked in we'd all have to go run to the take it at like 5 30 6 a.m and then we'd go back to sleep and then 20 minutes later after it kicked in we'd all have to go run to the bathroom it was like the morning every everybody in the house and then we'd all go to the gym there's something about your body that just like i don't think your body really wants all of that stuff in it to begin like it's just it probably recognizes it as not healthy i don't think that that feeling in your veins the like little creepy crawlies is it's probably not healthy in the long the long run i could be wrong i don't know i mean you've been taking it a long time ash do you have the uh do you still get the creepy crawlies in your veins? No, I don't feel anything.

Yeah, I feel like that's probably that saturation point where it's like you know it's there, but you don't really have the big reaction to it. Yeah, but like in CrossFit, like when I did my little stint of, what was it, with Grid League, and they said, you know, taking pre-workout is probably not a good idea because of like the what like the um because of the no like you know the nitrous oxide that would might be in it it would cause you to like you know pretty much to get a pump way too soon i mean i'm i'm not saying it correctly but i remember you know taking like you know c4 before my first training session when they were coaching me and like, like, man, I was just like – my muscles just basically seized up. We were trying to do, like, shoulder to overhead with 245 pounds.

Your goal was 20 in a row. And, like, man, I felt like I locked up. So the next week I didn't take it. It was much easier. Do you know – do CrossFitters normally take, like, something like C4 just like weightlifters? I never took any of it. But the beta-alanine in there, because of the aerobic endurance piece that Doug was talking about,

I don't think that there's – I think what you're saying is right. And also, if you're not doing a heavy weightlifting piece, but you're doing more monostructructural rowing, running, um, aerobic endurance stuff that there is some benefit to, to having it. Um, I only ever drank coffee, right? Like supplements and CrossFit. There's just too many things that like, because you have to be good at so many skills in CrossFit, there's already enough variance and craziness. And then if you throw supplements on top of it, now all of a sudden you have to figure out how supplements interact with the many modalities and many exercises that you need to be doing.

And it just adds, it like takes the complexity of what is already a very complex problem that you're trying to solve of doing these high-level movements very fast and then sprinkling on C4 on top. It's like trying to figure out how to dose yourself properly just becomes so confusing and overwhelming. If you're Matt Fraser, it's totally worth your time. But at the same time, I don't know what Rich Froning takes, but

Rich Froning is going to kick your ass no matter what. Matt Frazier doesn't need C4 and all that stuff to get himself hyped. He was born to just smash. I would imagine when they think about workouts, their whole goal is to minimize the amount of variables that they can put into a specific workout.

We're like, if you're in powerlifting, the goal is let's get as hyped as possible. Just be out of our mind. Yeah. For these, I need to be absolutely superhuman for four seconds at a time. Right. And you can add additional variables to the mix because the complexity of what you're doing isn't that crazy. It's crazy though, the feet that you are doing, but the amount of what you're doing isn't uh that crazy it's crazy the the feat that you are doing but the amount of time and the amount of movement and energy systems is very simple when you get

into crossfit there's so many different things in a different day and if especially if you're at a competition where you're doing multiple workouts in a day and trying to like figure out when your like when your c4 is going to wear off so you can read that would be the problem right there yeah drop you then you'll be like oh i gotta go again like hell yeah you gotta go again you know and so much of that sport like you think about the majority of crossfit workouts are like between what eight to twelve minutes so are you gonna go get like a full dose of pre-workout for an eight minute workout just doesn't and then all of a sudden you're just buzzing for the three hours in between workouts when you're trying to recover as much as possible it doesn't i i never

really saw people take many supplements in our gym at all if they did i didn't it wasn't our competition team they were always like just coffee and giddy up and go yeah we definitely recommended creatine and beta alanine for especially all of our competitive athletes yeah but then for a lot of regular people also it's like the downside of taking those is basically nothing they're really really cheap um and they and they are effective at strength and strength endurance it's like they're great supplements for crossfit like the the no explodes and um and other pre-workouts we didn't really recommend as much even if there is some efficacy there like like nitrous oxide is a vasodilator so you get better blood flow which means you get

better like nutrients delivered and waste products removed and that's those are all good things as far as recovery goes. It's actually, actually Viagra is like a very, very specific type of NO vasodilator products. That's how you get a boners. You, you get the vasodilation just in that one,

in that one area. But unfortunately, NO Explode doesn't, doesn't have that effect also. No, very fortunately, or you'd be walking around Gold's gym with a bunch of weird people like that guy in boston doug oh remember that oh yeah yeah we were in boston in the locker room and dude's just walking around with just a full-on boner

we're like boston sports club heads up the one the one right next to fairway god dude was like in our face doug and i were trying to tie our shoes put a towel on that man oh he was he was intentionally letting us know that he was available it was strange i didn't even i almost didn't even believe it until we got outside and doug goes that guy have a boner i was like whole i i couldn't even i i couldn't even process what was happening literally like six inches from my face. And then Doug was like, the dude was close. He was in our private space for sure. It was too much.

He had way too much NO Explode is what he had. Yeah, he went straight V. So like, you know, in the pre-workout, what is important, Doug? Would you say, obviously, hydration, you know, we haven't said that yet, but, you know, being optimally hydrated, FYI, Andy Galvin's got a good series on hydration you guys should listen to, but hydration, protein, and then obviously carbs. But, like, if you've had carbs throughout the day,

it's not necessarily as important to do it pre, correct? Right. The carbs are kind of the most variable component out of all this stuff. Protein will remain pretty consistent. Say you're a 200-pound person and you get between 30 or 40 grams of protein in your workout shake, and that's great. Carbohydrates, that really comes down to your total training volume and what your total caloric load is or you know how many carbohydrates eating the rest of the day if you're on a very normal diet you know where you're eating you know roughly a third a third a third of carbs fats and

proteins and you're getting enough protein or sorry you're getting enough carbohydrates in your diet throughout the day you don't have to slam a bunch of, of sugar into your workout drink. I very often don't, if I'm not trying to like aggressively gain weight and I'm not, I'm not worried about performing, um, you know, for any upcoming competition or whatever, but oftentimes I'll, I'll just have protein and then just, just eat. I'll eat my carbs, but I won't put sugar in my workout drink. So you won't need extra, right? Totally. Yeah. I don't feel like I need the extra. Cause like most of the, most of my days I train only once a day, you know,

I might go for walks or a bike ride or, or something like that. Like I'm active, you know, playing at the park with my kids and all that. But you know, most of the time I'm just sitting around, uh, working on my laptop, which is a fairly sedentary activity. So I'm not like smashing carbohydrates all day long now you're probably surviving on mainly fats at that point if you're just chilling yeah if you're if you're uh somebody who's doing two a days then i think it's a very good idea to eat some carbohydrates immediately prior to training if you're you're someone who's on very

low calories and and low carbohydrates and i would save most of your carbohydrates for that that window between two hours before and two hours after your training session from both a before before your training standpoint so you can train really well and then immediately afterward because your muscles are a little bit more insulin sensitive to to storing carbohydrates from the process of simply contracting your muscles, it heightens that ability to absorb and replenish glycogen in a more efficient way immediately post-workout than compared if you waited two hours or four hours or longer. And for some reason, too, having protein in your workout drink versus just carbohydrates, even if you're matched for calories, the protein seems to have some type of effect

where it increases the amount of glycogen stored in your muscles, even though you're not eating more carbohydrates. I don't know what the mechanism is there, but that seems to be pretty well established in the literature. When you look at the duration and intensity of what you're about to do as well, I guess, I mean, because if you're just like maxing out, then it's not important at all probably. At that point, you better take your creatine and that's all you're probably going to need. But if you're going to be doing some high intensity, definitely you're going to be doing CrossFit, like a typical Fran or something like that.

You're going to need a lot of carbohydrates. But that would be something to consider too. If it's super super long you know obviously if you're about to do a you know a 10 mile run well then even longer and so and then but even like i remember reading a study too i know what you're saying where they they you know with runners someone who was just doing endurance training they just did they just took uh carbohydrates and then they had another group there took the protein and the carbohydrates.

And there was a slight improvement, you know, by, you know, with the glycogen synthesis from doing both. So I don't know. Yeah. Once again,

I don't know why. Yeah. I'm not sure the mechanism, but usually what happens there is that they'll, they'll be three groups. There'll be a, you know, carbohydrate group where they're taking in, we'll say, for ease, 50 grams of carbohydrates. And then they'll have another group that does 50 grams of carbohydrates plus, say, 20 grams of protein. But that second group is getting more calories than the first group.

And so they'll have a third group that is a carbohydrate-only group but matched for calories so the third group i have 70 grams from carbohydrates and so they'll compare the three groups and the protein plus carbohydrate group actually performs even better than the the high carbohydrate group that that they're matched for calories which is interesting because you're storing extra muscle glycogen which again is is sugar that you store in your muscles. You would think the high sugar group would store the most sugar, but it doesn't seem to work specifically like that. But, again, I don't know the mechanism. Andy might know. Andy would know.

When you start to think about the amount of carbohydrate and protein that people are eating, do you think of it as like if we have the three windows of pre peri and post is that as a whole equal to the amount of calories that you would typically eat in a meal like a third a third a third or do you think front loading that because you're about to work out or you know back loading it because you just worked out and replenishing everything is more important. So I don't think you need to have like specific supplements for all three of those phases in every case. More even, more just the nutrition side, not even supplements. Yeah, the nutrition side, like eating real food can be a pre-workout strategy. Like you can just have a meal for, you know, 30 minutes or 60 minutes before you go train

and then you're appropriately fueled. You can be drinking a workout shake during and then post-workout, you can just go eat more food. So you don't have to have like a shake with sugar and protein powder and supplements in it at every phase. I tend to think that shakes

are there purely for convenience and they should, they should really be used the minimum. You should use them if you need them, but you shouldn't be using them in as a replacement for food when real food is available. Um, unless you're, you're just very low on calories. And in that case, maybe you eat your meal and you drink your shake. You just need more food.

Uh, but for the most part, i tend to think about shakes as being the during you know immediately before 10 minutes before during the warm-up and then you're kind of done with your shake halfway through your workout i would use shakes when i was competing because you know um just it was easier to assimilate my body because i would get nervous you know like and so like eating real food was really difficult but yet i could like i could consume a shake much easier and it didn't make me nauseous and so i remember yeah that that would eat one prior to squatting in between squatting and benching in between benching and deadlift and then you know obviously post yeah your days when you're competing are long well not when you're a real world championship when you're competing are long. Well, not when you're at a real world championship.

When WPO is not long, it means like, you know, you're talking about two and a half, three hour total. Like you're in and out. Like only at the like, you know, the not well run meets. I know I just crushed a lot of humans. But it's just true. If you go to the IPF Worlds or go to USAPL nationals, it's,

it's a two hour thing. It's like, boom, boom, boom. It's, which is, I like that much.

I hate those all day events. It's like, why? It's like, you're giving this fat dudes even longer. Mike, that's what they get from being out of shape too bad. Yeah.

Like, but I like to, I like to roll, you know, like, but if you're there all day long too, by the other day, like,

you know, you've had this cortisol effect going on all day long. No one ever does that. Yeah, we used to deal with that at the CrossFit Regional until they switched it up because it would be like you would do your five- to 20-minute, 25-minute workout. You get warmed up. You get warmed up. You go to the event event and then all of a sudden be like the next heat then you go through all the male individuals all the female individuals

and it's a 25 minute workout for every single heat that has to go through they can't like they can't start it early they have to be on the specific 25 to 30 minute plus the training or like uh transition times and then you got to go through all the team workouts. And then you'd come back and do like a four or five minute workout at the end of the day. And it was like, they changed that. I hope they do it. They continue that this with this year's stuff. But it was like, they did all the team stuff in the morning, and then all the individual stuff in the afternoon, which made life so much easier for everybody to prepare for, so much easier to coach for. Because like when the days were that long, it's like you prioritize all your nutrition

leading up to the event, then after the event. And then if you have a four or five hour gap in the day, it's like, when do you time a full meal and resting and all that stuff but if you can just stay relatively elevated in the intensity and stay moving between events and you only have an hour in between it's kind of like a regular training day you don't really think about have to think too hard about all of it because you just stay hyped for a couple hours and you're good to go right exactly i like them much better too yeah so i will say this is powerlifting is listening like you know one big difference it can be your nutrition because like i know most powerlifters when they get to

you know the deadlift they have nothing left you you know probably didn't either did not eat or they eat poorly you know you watch them eating they'll go get a burger you know, probably didn't either did not eat or they eat poorly. You know, you watch them eating, they'll go get a burger, you know, from the, the burger stand over here. I'm like, are you crazy? And so like, come deadlifting, they're exhausted probably because they've been nervous all day and they did not feel properly, which when I came to deadlifting, I felt great. It's a huge advantage. So use that, use that advantage. That's always something. And and and i think that the

people that struggle the most are the people that train in the mornings that the group for training the afternoon if you have like a decent lunch and you're training at four or five six o'clock at night you're probably good like have some carbohydrates have a protein shake something like that like on your drive to the gym and you're going to be pretty good it's the people in the morning that uh struggled the most because you're trying to if you're training at 5 30 6 a.m like you're probably sleeping until 5 20 and then you get out of bed you drive you get right in your car and go straight to the gym and you're hoping to be awake by the time you get there um and if you're doing CrossFit at 6 a.m., well, you're a special human being, one. But two, like if figuring out that real sweet spot for how to eat at that time and be able to train. normal breakfast three or four eggs and a cup of egg whites and then some sort of um carbohydrate

type thing um you're probably going to be way too full to be training but if you show up and you haven't eaten something at 6 a.m it's going to be really really challenging to get excited and to have the energy to to really get moving like you got to turn your whole system on and part of that is drinking a bunch of water early. Um, so we used to recommend that people would have, if, if they could get up, make like a protein shake and then just eat some sort of piece of fruit, like get some sugar in you, um, to, to be able to like just start feeling good and start having a,

what is as close to a full meal as possible while keeping it as light as possible so you're not just carrying around like a full breakfast and having to do 100 burpees in the morning i don't know how people come in there and they don't eat i mean you know i've i've tried that and just like i haven't i can't do that at all well they they do there is like some small benefit to training on an empty stomach. I want to say it was Mike Nelson. I read an article. It might have been one of his emails that he sent out.

There being some benefits to training fasted in the morning, if you're doing fasted cardio, it's not like a ton. And it may just be kind of like the fact that you're training early and you have a higher metabolism or, or higher energy output early in the morning. So you've got like, what is it? Epoch to carry you through throughout the day. But it's like a really small amount. Yeah. What is your thoughts on that, Doug? You know, I know people do like boast that in training faster than morning, you know know is it helps them burn more fat or

something but like what are your thoughts on that i mean that's that's a claim i think even if that happens to be maybe somewhat accurate i don't think it actually is practically accurate if you go for a 30 minute jog before you eat breakfast or after you eat breakfast i don't think there's going to be like this big difference in your in your fat loss or your performance. I think it mostly comes down to like the program you're doing the training volume you're doing and how much you're eating and what your macros are throughout the day. Like those those are the biggest components, whether you do your cardio fasted or not fasted is like a completely minor point but anecdotally i i think there's something to that like i've done many cardio sessions in the morning before i've eaten i don't really i won't lift weights and i especially won't do like crossfit or or anything that's like high high acidity but i'll do endurance training in the morning and actually feel really really good while while doing it so i feel like there is something there where you still can perform as far as endurance goes waking up on an empty stomach

but i also don't think there's like a big reason where you have to do that like you can eat a hard boiled egg and a banana and and then go train and that's for me that type of thing works works better for strength training especially you, maybe a workout drink also. If you're going to do less training, you know, like low intensity, steady state, I can definitely see where it would be fine because we all have plenty enough adipose tissue to, you know, burn for energy. But anything other than that, I would, I would definitely think it would make more sense to have, you know, and even to at least have a little protein too, because even in endurance training, there's going to be, you know, breakdown, there's going to be, you know, muscle breakdown. So you want to, you want to avoid that as much as you can. So I don't know. No. I'd love to actually have a bike on, uh, to talk about that. Um,

I really wish I could remember the study that he, he, had to have been an email that he sent out about just some of the smaller benefits of doing it. Perry Workout, do you guys focus on eating while you're training or consuming calories while you're training? While we're competing, yes, but not necessarily. I have some athletes who if it's going to be a grueling long, you know, workout, then they will bring, you know, some food to eat during the training session. But, you know, with weightlifting, because it's so, you know, you're mainly focused on that phosphocreatine system and a little bit maybe glycolysis. But, you know, just, you know, if anything, bring a little bit of, you know, something, sugar, you know, some kind of like simple sugar to eat while you're training.

A banana or, you know, it's even a time where people, some people might, you know, eat like a simple candy of some kind. But that would be it. Yeah, I used to do it essentially every time I trained. Back when my training volume was much higher when I was competing weightlifting and or competing in MMA. And I was doing many hours of training each day. I would always have a workout shake. Like I'd have like one for weightlifting practice. And then go home and eat dinner.

And then take a workout shake with me to jiu-jitsu and kickboxing and MMA. And that, I could tell the difference back then when I didn't have a shake in those calories for those longer sessions because I do two hours of weightlifting and then you know two or three hours of MMA so I was training a lot when I didn't have those extra calories I could totally tell that my performance would drop off but yeah but these days my workouts are between 30 minutes and an hour you know five days a week and I don't need like I don't need to dump a bunch of sugar into my body to to perform at a matter moderately level at a moderate level where i'm just really trying to have fun and enjoy myself i'm not really trying to win anything um i might have a protein shake

depending on what i've eaten that day but for the most part the carbohydrates just going to come from from the regular food i eat it's going to come from rice and potatoes and i eat a lot of fruit and whatever else i get plenty of carbohydrates as it is i don't i don't need to put sugar in my workout shake because even if it's even if it's not going to be stored as body fat i still i still think it's just there's probably some downside to just dumping sugar in your body even if you're exercising a lot and even if you have a lot of muscle mass yeah there's no there's no need there's i'd rather get my carbohydrates from a from a different source where it's also coming in with other additional nutrients whether it's yeah whether it's you know fiber or antioxidants or or um you know healthy bacteria or whatever it is

pure sugar is not going to have any of these these things that you get from high-quality sources of carbohydrates, which is one of the big distinguishing factors between low-quality carbohydrates and high-quality carbohydrates. It has nothing to do with the carbohydrates at all. Maybe the density of the carbohydrates is a part of it, but the carbohydrates themselves don't really change. It's the same type of thing. In one case, you're taking in just carbohydrates, just sugar. In another case, you're taking in sugar plus a bunch of other nutrients. And so whenever you can, you want to bias yourself toward the high nutrient density version of those carbohydrates.

I would agree. Yeah, I think also, I mean, even to that point, the focus when you're training for performance and competing against other people specifically to win is to have every edge possible going into that competition date, whether it's mental, whether it's the nutrition side, whether it's macronutrient timing, like every single piece of what you're doing needs to be tailored towards being the best you can be on that specific date. If you're just trying to get jacked, maintain a decent level of body fat,

maybe lose body fat. All of these things are these super micro pieces to turn the dial a little bit in your favor, where if you're eating three to four really good meals throughout the day, and you think that 30 to 60, maybe 90 minutes of strength training is, well, first off, you train for 90 minutes. You are a savage. I couldn't even imagine that long of a training session right now. Um, if you're, if you're doing that, like your body should be able to have enough energy throughout the day to get you through it, be able to perform for an hour. And like, it's really it's really not that big of a deal. And, you know, if you're just starting out and looking for like –

sometimes I think about all of this as like they're just like little pieces to keep you interested. Like you should be constantly experimenting on something. Like add more carbohydrates to the beginning of your workout. Do it later. Do it in the middle. Like play with it. Why wouldn't you?

It sounds awesome. She said, right. But on the whole, you're supposed to be the mature one here. I'm totally not. I'm totally the most immature of the three. Well, when you look at nutrition on the whole and you're looking at a 24-hour day and then

seven days a week or how all those days play out into a year, really what the most important piece is having all the nutrition aligned, really high quality micronutrients, eating really high quality food, and then experiment with how you feel and what helps your performance or helps you have more intensity and focus in your workouts. I think that's one of the, you know, we talked about supplementation at the beginning of this, like that's probably one of the biggest benefits of taking pre-workouts is you're just super focused. You kind of like took a little, took some drugs before you went to go focus there's got to be a placebo effect worked in there somewhere also like when you take c4 you're like fuck yeah i'm ready to go now yeah it hasn't kicked in yet you just like

you just have that that mindset you took a stimulant and now you're gonna get after it especially if you're like kind of a beginner or intermediate and you know that, yeah, you're going in and working hard, but you're not like banging weights and competing against people with like some super hard driven passion for getting after it. Like you're in the beginning stages. You don't even know. You haven't even created enough intensity to know what intensity is. But if you take some C4, you will find out real quick. Yeah. You're going to learn today.

Yeah, you're going to learn today. What about post-workout, Doug? Would you say that, you know, that's where I feel like the most, I don't know. The window. Yeah, the window. Go watch Andy Galpin's 5-Min minute fizz on the post-workout window the post-workout window i think you know used to people made a huge deal about it charles fulligan um i'm not saying that he was wrong i just think he might have

like over emphasized it but what are your thoughts on that uh i do think that it is distinctly different from the rest of your day right it's kind of like we talked about earlier with um with carbohydrates specifically like they'll they'll be much more likely to be shuttled back into your muscles versus being stored as body fat and that's that's a temporary thing that happens immediately you know for the you know 30 to 60 to 90 minutes after training so um there there is something there i don't know what the research says about about um building muscle specifically you know glycogen storage is is about energy within the muscles versus the muscles actually getting bigger and um you know

adding more myofilaments and and gaining mass um so i'm not sure what the what it says about protein specifically but but i i definitely think it's it's a good thing to eat as soon as possible after training but it doesn't have to be a protein shake and carbohydrate just like we're talking about earlier i think i remember both ronnie coleman and jay cutler at one time saying like like someone was like why don't you have workout shakes and they were like why like this is my job i fucking eat food all day long yeah i mean it's like i don't i don't need it because they got, they got their calories and their, you know, their nutrition handled. So it's a, it's, it's a convenience thing. In some ways it's not necessarily a hundred percent necessary,

but it's just an easy way to get some carbohydrates close to your training. Totally. You know, like I think Charles used to say like, you had that 30 minute window window post-workout. He would encourage people to crush the carbohydrates and the protein. I think he might have overemphasized that a little bit. Plus, that 30 minutes, I don't think he did it on purpose, but I think he just kind of went by what he was being told at the time. There wasn't a lot of research.

I think now it's a little bit longer, you know, more like what you were saying, 90 minutes, possibly even two hours they're saying now. So it's just, I think really the anabolic window is the biggest difference in what, you know, like in the 90s to now. It's just, it's a little bit longer of a window versus what we were told. I mean, just logically after you train, you're, you're going to be tired and need more energy and you just beat the crap out of your muscles for an hour. You should probably have some protein to start rebuilding and get some, some glycogen back in your muscles and get some sugar to boost it all up and

make you feel better. Uh, I think just logically it makes sense, but how, I think that that's also just like a piece that so many people, like, is the post workout window a real thing? Totally. Like you need to get some really good calories and you, after you train, because you just beat the crap out of your body for an hour but if you if you spread that out over the lifetime of training like how important is post-workout nutrition to you travis mash that's been lifting weights really heavy for 40 years 30 years it's like i don't worry about it at all

to be honest at this point but when you're in competition and you're 22 years old and you're looking for every advantage that you can possibly get, it's super important to have all that stuff really dialed in and eat within the first half an hour so you can immediately start the recovery process. So it really is like a goal-specific thing and where you're at and what the actual outcome is that you're looking for. Like right now, the majority of time, my training stops as soon as the car rolls up and little diesel's in the back and wants to go play. That doesn't mean Anders stops training and goes into the kitchen and makes a protein shake and then eats a Snickers bar and all. It's like, no, I don't have time for that. So I just go play. Like they're just, like your lifestyle and your training goals have to match the importance that you put on all

of these things, knowing that you're probably going to get maybe what one, 2%. And over time, that one to 2% is going to equate to maybe slightly higher PRS, maybe slightly more muscle building. And at a stage of life where you're really easily building muscle from 18 to 32 years old, yeah, you should focus on it. It should be really important to you. And making sure you have all that dialed in as much as possible to get the highest returns on the time and energy that you're spending in the gym.

When you're 38, you might have things to do after you work out that doesn't require slamming a protein shake. You definitely will. So, yeah. And Anders is about to have a lot going on. Yeah. He's slamming protein shakes really soon. We've got a new baby coming.

Probably right when this airs, I'll be entering the cave of sleep-deprived life. Hardcore. Man. be entering the cave of sleep deprived deprived life hardcore man coach travis mash where can the people find you mashley.com on instagram at mashley performance or twitter at mashley coach doug larson on instagram douglas c that, that, uh, what does that shirt say? Oh, it's the BJ shirt. The Gracie's. I want you to go watch that documentary.

Carlos Gracie, senior competition from California a couple years ago. Dude, I love MMA. I am so like, that's the only thing that gets my time. Like I have eliminated everything that takes up my time, except I love MMA.

I can stay on there. If I'm not careful, I'll be on there for hours watching it. Did you see on Nature is Metal, Doug sent me this yesterday, the lady that pushed a bear off a wall because it was about to eat her little chihuahua? Uh-uh. Yeah. A bear with two cubs. Yeah, if that dog is mine. That dog is snack time.

Peace out. I'm not pushing a bear. I love some dog that much. Don't put that dog in its mouth. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever you do, stay on the fence and don't come in my yard. Don't eat me. I don't care.

I can go buy a couple more. Right. I just pissed off every dog lover that's listening to this show right now. I know, man. I think once you have kids, it's hard to feel the same about dogs. I loved dogs so much, so we started popping out babies. Now I'm like, man, I can't worry about you as much as I used to. Sorry.

I mean, I'm just being real. I could lie. I think that every time a dog barks in a coffee shop, we should outlaw dogs. I'm very anti-dog, actually. Sorry. I'll shrug people. I'm really sorry. When a dog jumps on you and you're in a coffee shop, it's absurd.

And then the owner likes to look at you and go, they're friendly. Your 90-pound dog just jumped on me with this fang sticking out. How am I supposed to know it's friendly? Because you brought it into a human-made coffee shop where everything's so friendly. No. I don't know. You're giant.

That thing's like two degrees away from being a wolf. Yeah, dude. I think there's not a lot of wolf still in that dog. Yeah, right. It's going to eat me for sure. I'm just trying to get some coffee and answer emails. That woman was a badass, by the way. I just watched the woman push the bear.

Savage, right? Yeah. I would have been like, good luck, dog. I would have run in my house and watched my dog get eaten. That's a brown bear. It's not like it's a little bitty black bear. That's a brown bear. Yeah, that thing's giant.

Yeah, no chance. I'm like, too bad, dog. No chance. Did you, on one last thing, did you guys see the gorilla in Nature's Metal where the silverback charges the people? It beats the chest and charges the people. I guess all it's saying, when it does that, if you don't get out of its way, it's about to maul you.

All you got to do is get out of its way. It's just a way of showing that he's in control. That's sign language. Get out. No chance, brother. I'm out. I'm out. Yeah.

You bang your chest. I'm going the opposite direction. Matt, I want to let you know, next time we hang out, lift weights, I'm going to have the most jacked tibialis you've ever seen in your life because Knees Over Toe Guy sent me the tibialis strengthener oh really yeah i'm gonna have the most jack tibialis you've ever seen in your life he's all about it walk in the room you're like damn dude your front shin looks solid is it why why is he so into the i missed that when dang it but i wanted to be on there why why was he why is he into the tibialis so much?

Now you put me on the spot, and I have to go back and remember it. I was really just stoked that I got the tibialis strengthener. Is it anterior to posterior? Yes, just creating balance. And it's really good for deceleration and that stretch reflex. That's not the right word, but when you jump, it's a very big part of the plant foot and rebounding. Huh. All right. I'd like to see more about that.

Yeah, I know. That show's coming out very soon. He's rad. I wish I could have been there, but I was on a plane. All right. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shrugged. Get over to BarbellShrugged.com forward slash Diesel Dad

where all the busy dads are getting strong, lean and athletic without sacrifice and family, fatherhood or fitness. And everyone, if you're in San Diego, Las Vegas, Palm Springs or Vegas, get over to Walmart. Three programs on the shelf in the pharmacy. Come and rage.

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