Barbell Shrugged - How to Burn Calories and Optimize Your Metabolism w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #562

Episode Date: April 5, 2021

Metabolisms are confusing as hell.   You’re in the gym training hard and it’s frustrating not seeing the results.   Over time, that frustration beats you down and you start losing motivation to train.   Training is the fuel that brings fire to your life.   Getting strong and looking strong shouldn’t be such a daunting process.    Register for the “Diesel Dad Diet”   Inside the “Diesel Dad Diet” you will receive:   “Diesel Dad Diet”: Your guide to optimizing your metabolism. Diesel Dad Nutrition: Personalized macros to lose 13 pounds in 13 weeks Three Training Programs: Strength, Hypertrophy, and Conditioning to Build Mus C&K “Diesel Blend”: 3-Months of free coffee Register for the “Diesel Dad Diet”   In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What is your metabolism. Finding your baseline metabolic rate Increasing non exercise to burn fat How much does training matter How many calories do you burn by eating   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   U.S. Air Force. Find out if you do at airforce.com.   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

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DieselDadDiet.com. Let's get into the show. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Bash. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to be talking about the four ways that you can burn calories. Because we know that calories in, calories out is the gold standard in how you burn fat or gain muscle. And we're going to teach you the four ways that you can burn calories. But before we get into that, Travis Bash, you just got back in town, bud.

I did, yes. You guys had a little bit of a weightlifting meet involving all the strong people from this entire country of ours. And you guys did pretty well. Dude, how'd the weekend go? It went great. What was it, Nationals or American Open? It's called the University of the Nationals.

Oh, University, got it. So you went with Lenoir. Right. All the universities go together in battle. And we had – we also had some people. We had Jordan Cantrell. We had Kendall, your training partner used to be. She was there.

They both gold medals. I feel like we had one more. But anyway, those two were there plus our team from Lenore. And we killed – obviously, Ryan Grimson, gold medal. He smashed people. Was it even close? No, no. As long as he makes a lift, he's winning probably.

He got gold in both in the total, correct? Yeah, everything. Yeah, you got snatch, clean jerk, and total, yeah, by far. What were those lifts, by the way? What weight class was he in and what did he lift? No, we went – he's been dealing with the knee thing since over Christmas, and we just now have him back to where he should be, so we went conservative. So, we went 120, 150.

The only big lift we took was 161, which he got, which is 355 basically. He got under, but, you know, he didn't stand up. Wait, he tried to jump from 150 to 161. Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah, because on everything, I made him be conservative just because we have Junior Worlds coming up in just a few weeks. In about eight weeks, sometime in May, we have Junior Worlds.

Where's that at, by the way? Saudi Arabia. Whoa. You're going to Saudi Arabia arabia in two months yeah yeah we should we should we should go with for sure oh yes you should yes you should then i'll be more excited about the trip then so um anyway so i don't know how else i'm gonna end up in saudi arabia so yeah yeah i don't know how well i'm gonna – how we present that to our wives. I mean – I'm going to go to Saudi Arabia.

It's like, huh? They're not going to be worried about you. Oh, I'm going to – yeah, we got to do podcasts. I think I need your ass at home. How's that sound? Your pot ass at home. I don't think I need you going to oil land right now in the middle of this tumultuous time in our –

There won't be that many bullets flying past our heads. Yeah, just a couple. I'll be lifting weights. It'll be normal. Just like I'm at home. Where do they come up with these places? I didn't even know Saudi Arabia had a team, but I guess they do. So here we go. So who else did really well?

You said Jordan did pretty well? Oh, everyone did either, you know, well, Jordan Cantrell is his first meet back. He, you know, but he, he got silver in the snatch and the clean and jerk. And then, but he got gold overall. He just had, so that was interesting, which is enough to light a fire on it. You know, he hasn't had that happen to him in a long time. So that was, yeah, he's getting married and he just bought a new house so he's been

you know this is one kid away from being uh completely average all right yeah this is the time in his life why did you drop 50 places in ranking one child yeah yeah and then we'll all know oh okay yeah we know, kid, average weightlifter. Simple formula. I hope he's listening to this so he'll tie a knot in it. So, yeah, the Kendall, she got gold across the board. Savage. She's so strong.

Yeah. And she's starting to move a lot better. Not that she moved poorly like a year ago or a year and a half ago when we met her. Much better now. It looks so much cleaner strong. Yeah. And she's starting to move a lot better. Not that she moved poorly like a year ago or a year and a half ago when we met her. Much better now. But it looks so much cleaner now. Yeah. She is this year away from being like hard to beat. Like she'll be – I think the next step she needs to take is get that clean –

you know, get her legs a little stronger and get the clean and jerk in the 120s, which she's really close. And then it's a wrap. Because she'll be in the 100s and the 120s, and now she's going toe-to-toe with pretty much everybody. She's such a strong girl. Like a brother. She's got farm-strong genes in her family.

He's doing that football at New Football. Is that still going? I doubt that's going on. feel like vince mcmahon's failed at the xfl twice now it's like dude stop being in stop playing football yeah stick with one was a pandemic one was probably steroids i don't know i don't know what it is but secondary football leagues just don't work out the pandemic did it shut that one down i do i don't actually know i assume anything that's anything that was that big of an investment that was not in the tech space

uh and involved people going to a stadium to pay for tickets yeah that started in 2019 probably did not fare well in 2020 i probably doubt it you do you think what if you. What have we found out that the CEO of Zoom caused all this? I think Zoom is going to be a cause of death in 2025. How'd he die? He fucking sat on Zoom for six

years is what happened. He just died. What happened? I don't know. He just never moved. Zoom was my life. Zoom was how it all happened. I'll zoom into Jamaica. That's not going to Jamaica. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, imagine what their bandwidth was when all of corporate America went home and all of academia went home and the only way they could do it was through zoom bandwidth. I would love to see what that graph looked like. It was like, I know the internet was up and the internet was up like 40% at the

beginning of quarantine, but I don't know what it is now. Hopefully going back to normal. I hope Texas is ready to rock. Everyone's going to Texas now. Rogue, rogue invitational at Texas in Texas. They announced it.

Come on. Let's go. Take those masks off. CrossFit Games, I think they announced we're doing it. Smart. I think the world is ready to rock. That governor is so smart.

MMA will go there. Everyone will go there everyone will go there yeah to go where again well texas because they opened up everything yeah yeah i don't know why florida didn't i don't think florida has yet but no i don't think florida i don't know if they opened up businesses but they they do florida took masks off in like october yeah last year i was talking to a pensacola CrossFit gym owner yesterday, and he was saying that it's, it's free reign in Florida.

It's, it's basically just open. God, we got the CCS, man, our governor in North Carolina. He's soft, right?

Yeah. It's still that Roy guy. Yeah. We voted him back in. I mean, I guess maybe the state is filled with this, you know, with people who.

Dude, you got like three big cities. Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte. Yeah. And Asheville is like the fourth. Asheville is bigger than Greensboro. Greensboro is another one. So four or five big cities.

None of them are big cities. Not like New York City, but they control the voting. I guess. And so here we are. Bam. Back with that voting. I guess. So here we are. Bam. Back with that guy. I'm just back in my garage. I don't know when I'm leaving.

On Zoom. Anyway, to wrap up, we won the – Lenore Ryan won the men's team. With co-ed, we only had three girls this year, but we've got a bunch of recruits coming in next year. So the goal is men's, women's, and co-ed next year. So you guys – wait, so you did win the co-ed? No, we won the men's. Got third in co-ed, and that's with one – we did have a bond out.

Matt Weineger, this is a good story, and this is a good way to – some teaching. Even though he bombed out, it led to the best conversation of our, of our life. You know, what I did, I was, I was mad and I had reason to be mad, but I let him cool down and I waited until he texts me. He's like, can I come talk to you? I'm like, yep. And so we, you know, if he had, if he had done really well, if he had won gold, having trained the way he trained those last few weeks, that would have been the worst thing that could have happened

because then he would have said, I can do whatever I want and win gold. So it was the best case scenario was for him to bomb out so we could have that talk to move forward. Was he doing a little too much partying? Why do you think he bombed? He just wasn't doing the things he needed to do. I can't really

say. There's one big thing that I can't say, but he did something and he knows what it is. And so we were able to have a talk and we were able to set rules and boundaries moving forward. And so it was good. It was, you know, I think one thing that Dave from Cal Strength, the biggest thing I've ever learned from him, he said, you're either winning or learning. So I would definitely agree with that this past. Most of it was winning, but in Matt's case, it was learning. And the way he supported his teammates afterwards, it was good to see.

I think he handled it well. Dude, that kid just likes to have fun. He does, and so do I. So I know. You just got to decide. Is winning more fun or is fun more fun? Dude, partying after winning gold medal is way more fun than these little bs parties he's going you know so yeah yeah yeah then you get to wear

that chain yeah the big medal around your neck show up around showing the other girls they're like yeah did you win gold i did you know like so like, so. Good weekend. So does that put Lenore Rhine as, like, the – this is your first big competition as a school, right? Yes. This is a good way to intro yourself to the University Nationals. Yeah, I just won the big award on campus here. Just a few minutes ago, we had our staff meeting. I won, like, the bear award for um

inaugural program that won the national championship so excited yeah right on dude congrats congrats thanks yeah me too so i was hoping that's that was my goal do what i want i did this weekend because we won pretty handedly and that's with a bomb out so that that's pretty good pretty much the domination so i'm happy yeah yeah right on team let's talk about some calories um man i feel like uh there's doug what do we we talked about this the other day like the the curse of the genius at times not that we are geniuses by any means, and there's all these people that understand all this stuff in significantly more depth, studying it in labs. But we get to talk to all the people, and it's at times frustrating because I live on two sides of the spectrum. One being like, everyone should know

every tiny little thing that goes on in the lab and be able to recite the science. And then on the other side, I just want to look at people and go, well, if you want to lose fat, you should eat less and give like the most basic understanding of like, everybody can agree that the calories in a calories out thing is like the gold standard in how you do it. And then the way that you get there is like the keto or the intermittent fasting or the paleo and whatever it is. But there is like the middle ground that I think we do a, I'd like to think we do a great job of explaining. And I think that the way people burn calories is often so misunderstood in that people immediately go to, well, I need to exercise more. And they don't really understand kind of like the hierarchy of how calories are burned or how your body uses energy. And there's a couple, there's four main points that I want to get to

and how we break this down. And the first being BMR, basal metabolic rate. Second being NEAT. Some people have probably heard that acronym of non-exercise activity thermogenesis. Then the part that is super sexy, which is the actual exercise. Um, and then the thermal effect of food. Um, dude, how, how do we like find BMR? What is BMR? Um, and in, in, in general, it is at the base of, at the base of the pyramid on how we burn calories, but nobody ever talks about it. How do we break down BMR so that it's an easy concept for people to understand and the caloric needs of your body, even if you were just laying in bed and what you need to stay alive? Yeah, that really is kind of what we're talking about. It's like when you are laying

in bed, you're just existing. You're not moving. You're not doing anything. How many calories would your body burn just to keep itself alive? And that really accounts for about two-thirds of the total calories that you burn. Most of that is, you know, genetic set points and stuff that you just have no control over. However, the only thing, the one main thing that you do have control over with respect to your basal metabolic rate is the amount of muscle mass that you have. Generally, the more muscle mass you have, the more, since that's where calories are burned for the most part in your body are, you know, you moving yourself around, the more muscle you have, the higher your metabolic rate tends to be.

So if you are very muscular, you can eat more food and not have to burn off extra calories to stay lean because your muscles are kind of taking care of that for you, we'll say. So that's kind of really the base is when you think about fat loss and calories, especially over the long term, you want your basal metabolic rate to be as high as possible, which means that you want to be muscular and fairly lean. That's why people that they're like, they're kind of skinny fat. They have very little muscle mass and, but they're kind of at a normal body weight. But yeah, like if you're, if you're a hundred and you know, 75 pounds as a male and, but you're also like 40% body fat, it's like, Oh, well you're really a very small person you just have a bunch of fat hanging off of you so the amount of calories you can eat without gaining even more fat is very very low

and so building up muscle mass and you know whether you burn the fat off first or build the muscle mass first is up for debate depending on who you are and what your situation your goals etc but but generally i think um getting lean and then putting on as much muscle mass as possible is a good idea or if that's just not working for you switch gears and go put on as much muscle mass as possible and then back it back down and kind of that that back and forth cycle can can work very well there uh so that's kind of the base like two-thirds of your calories roughly uh roughly is affected by your basal metabolic rate, which is directly influenced by your muscle mass. Beyond that, you mentioned the non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

That basically just means like how active you are throughout the day. Do you have a sedentary job or do you work in a steel mill and your job is to like carry pieces of steel across a big warehouse and put them from one pile to another pile and you just do that you're just way more active even if you're not lifting weights and specifically doing cardio you just you just have a lot to do so it really depends on what your occupation is in a lot of cases for people and then also how you just spend your free time you spend your free time playing video games or you spend your free time you know taking your kids kayaking or whatever yeah going on a hike yeah yeah and so that probably accounts for i don't know we'll say we'll say like 20 this is a guess i have to look up the actual numbers here but

it's it's a it's a lower percent let's say 15 of of your total calories. I don't know the exact number, but I would almost – I would even wager that it's like – the reason that much of this conversation is interesting to me right now is because I didn't train for like five or six days last week in a row. My body was just like totally broken, but I was sitting there and like in a construction zone basically. And in my house, like painting all day, moving shit all day long. And it really got me thinking like, I wonder how jacked I would be if I was just a construction worker.

We're like all day long. You don't actually go to the gym and lift weights, but you're just constantly moving two by fours all day long you don't actually go to the gym and lift weights but you're just constantly moving two by fours all day long and you're just constantly lugging 50 pound things of concrete up and down stairs or sheetrock like how jacked would you be and how many calories would you burn if if that was your job on a daily basis to just go move very sub-maximal weights just all day long because you're just – in theory, you would be just completely shredded. This is what goes through my brain while I'm painting a house all weekend. That doesn't tend to build lots of muscle mass though.

It tends to make people fit, we'll say. If you look at people that set pull-up records, like he did 5 000 pull-ups in 24 hours yeah they're not like super jacked because they do like one or two pull-ups and then take a little break on the one or two bulbs and they take a little break and doing doing activity like that where it's sub max weights kind of all day long but you're not really going to failure you're not you're not really generating any like real um um like localized fatigue etc doesn't tend to build a lot of muscle mass if you look at construction workers they're usually not super jacked like a lot of really overweight i would say that i was gonna say yeah they gotta go either way i would say that some the they're they're jacked in places that we are not like you know their

hands i would get I'm just assuming. I have no science to back up what I'm about to say. But I assume the muscle, like the slower twitch muscle fibers, you know, are getting really accentuated in their case. So their forms will be huge. Their hands will be huge, you know. And then, you know, things where we're big, like, say, pecs and quads, they might not be. But it's those things, you know, then you know things were big like say pecs and quads they might not be it but it's

those things as you know those muscle fibers that are over twist that they use all day long all the time and those muscle fibers actually respond well to you know some maximal in lots of volume all day long those things are those are experiencing hypertrophy but just that's why they're weird hypertrophy they're big in places we're not so mass getting back to like the the bmr did you uh when you were power lifting and training really hard did were you ever like following a strict diet or was it just enough of a job to just try to get enough food into your body to keep building muscle. I mean, your BMR at, what did you lift at? Like 220?

Yeah. I mean, with the amount of muscle that you need to be able to squat 900 to 1,000 pounds and eat and just be able to like function with super expensive, like metabolically muscle is very expensive. Right. To be able to continue to get stronger like did you ever how many calories were you eating before you started to see the scale either go up or down and you know i had a nutritionist who like i had this awesome deal with this uh cheryl clodfelter she was was the best. Not only would she do my nutrition, she would prepackage my meals.

Then I would, in turn, coach her and do her programming and all that. She would do all that for me. At the end, when I was at my biggest, I would normally weigh 240, 250, cut to 220. At my biggest, I was

eating 4,000 or 5,000 calories. You know, it depends. She fluctuated depending on if it was a high-volume day, low-volume day. So she was really, I think, ahead of her time. And I think that was a big advantage for me because even she had my meals prepackaged for when I would compete. So like where, you know, most powerlifters are just, you know, they're not thinking about it. They're just going to get some sandwich. I had all my –

Bob Evans. Yeah. And I ate – I did really well with mostly like meal replacements while I was competing because you're anxious. But I would eat a little food but mostly meal replacements. So she had me set and I was – Do you know how many calories it was a day? Total protein?

Between, oh, total protein. It was definitely like three per kilogram. So, um, yeah, it was pretty high,

especially back then because back then that was like, you know, most people were doing like one, you know, to maximum two. And so, and I was most palliatives, to be honest,

they don't know what they're just eating and taking lots of drugs. And so where I was like really trying to focus on my health and, you know, trying to get every advantage, like sleep, you know, there was a period where I was struggling with sleep. So I went and worked on that. So I tried to do the little things that I knew that they would not do. Those little things will always add up to, to win. So. Yeah. those little things will always add up to to win so yeah were you were you how active were you

outside of just pure training um because i i the reason i think about is like yeah i was gonna say the reason i think about that is like somebody that is lifting as heavy as you are and burning the calories that you are in the middle of training. And I have plenty of stories about this in my own training when I was doing it as well. But, man, if you're out walking 10,000, 12,000 steps a day, like you're just – there's not enough food in the world to put in your face to be able to keep the muscle on if you're living like a super active life outside of just training. But, you know, I wasn't. But now I did adhere to Louie Simmons' GPP. And so we would do, you know, sled pulls, prowler pushes.

And I think that was a big advantage too. Whereas most of his guys really don't do those things. Yeah. But I did, and it was a big help because. Whereas most, most of his guys really don't do those things. Um, yeah, but I, I did. And it was a big help because come dead lifting, I was like, I had all the energy in the world.

I could pull whatever I needed to pull to continue winning. And whereas some power leaders were just literally shot, which is amazing. We're doing nine lists, nine minutes of work and they're dead after six minutes. And I'm like, like wow you dudes will be dead and a lot of them are dead but you know um just being real right now so but i was feeling good yeah so i stayed in shape and i was super lean i think there's a big misconception about

power powers too anybody from 242 weight class and down is going to be lean if they're good. They might be fat, but they're not winning. So all the top dogs are – like Ed Cohen was in Flex Magazine. I remember watching him going toe-to-toe with – they compared him to Dorian Yates, which is my favorite. Yeah. Anyway, so – I want to go out and do leg day with Dorian Yates in his basement. I do too.

And that – yeah, that gym in England. Oh, yeah. Nobody's allowed in. I want to go out and do leg day with Dorian Yates in his basement. I do, too. In that, yeah, that gym in England. Oh, yeah. Nobody's allowed in. I want to go in. I'll do it. I'll do it. It's high intensity, you know, everything to failure. Let's do it.

Just burn your legs up for a week and a half. Yeah. There's like 10 pounds of. I feel like, you know, when you like hit a leg day real hard and you feel like you, there's like, I feel like there's like layers to the depth of soreness in legs where you feel like on like a regular day, almost if it was like the earth where you have like the mantle and then what's the second layer? The –

I don't know. That's the first one. What's the second layer? No, we have the shelf and then the mantle we have the shelf is that right whatever i wish my child was here we would have all here totally good i go back to exactly i got i'm missing all all of my knowledge from first grade right now yeah your normal day is like a top layer of sore muscle. And then you know you really got it good when it's like a three-day soreness. I feel like if you did it with him, you're at like the core of the earth.

Like the very deep part of your leg is telling you, stop. You've gone way too far, and it's going to be a weak recovery because you just went to failure on everything. Do you guys remember your most treacherous leg workout of all time it's so easy for me but like i remember my very first day of doing legs the strength coach told me i squatted and then we did leg extensions leg curls and then he put a barbell yeah and they put a barbell on my back and the gym that we were at had a uh the gym was underneath the stadium of the football field which had a track around it and he put a barbell on my back on day one it said 400 meter lunge with the barbell go oh my god day one that was like my introduction to uh training it was a 400 meter 45 pound

lunge that's what he used to make the wrestlers do all the time and i just i was 13 and they said go so okay okay figure it out you remember um not specifically one one occasion but i was introduced to squatting with 20 rep back squats and you know did like the five pounds a week for like a year a long time you know i started like 155 or whatever it was and i got like more like 255 over the course of my sophomore year in high school and i remember being brutally sore for much of that year for much of that year every every monday i would be nervous at school walking around knowing the fuck after school or after after practice after school i gotta i gotta do five more pounds than

last week because i remember last week and that was back when i would be spotted too like i was fairly new to it and so i would be kind of bumped lightly through the sticking point like survive from like reps 15 to 20 and so it's like i'm doing a 15 rm plus five forced reps and i'm new to squatting i used to be really fucking sore from that but i thought oh i thought it was totally normal that's me too i met when i was in college uh there was this new guy that come to the gym it was i was done with football it's my senior year and i'm like that i'm starting to do weight lifting and powerlifting and i'm like this really strong dude. And this new guy comes who's also strong.

So, of course, you know, we're like, do you want to train legs tomorrow together? And, like, obviously that's a challenge. No one's saying it, but we all know what's happening. But sure. We're going to go squat. So we did this. He picked an exercise. I picked an exercise.

And it went back and forth like that until someone quit. So he goes first, and he picks walking lunges like you said, barbell lunges, 10 on each leg. And so we ended up with doing three. They're college kids. 315 for sets of 10. Whoa. Then we squat.

So then I chose that. So then we're doing 10, 8, 6, 3, 1, 10 8 6 3 1 3 6 8 10 you know down and up i mean it just kept going and going and like finally nobody quit and we just went home and my legs were cramping so bad they were doing the wave like i had my girlfriend was just helping me she's like bringing me fluids. And it was just moving. It's like a wave on my legs. I know I had rhabdo. I don't know how I didn't die.

I didn't know what rhabdo was back then. Yeah. I don't think anybody knew what it was. It's like if you just ran marathons, you just died. And people are like, I don't know. You went too hard. Then they gave it a name, this weird one, once CrossFit showed up. Your pee is brown?

That's probably not good. Yeah. That's probably not good at all. Yeah, when I think about like the total caloric intake of like hardcore training and like this non-exercise thing, and it truly was the hard, once I stopped competing and training at that volume and making it much more of like a lifestyle thing, it really was like the hardest transition of all of it. I found knocking down the total volume that I trained at to be a very easy process.

Like it's so much more fun and so much easier to go from brutal 90-minute sessions where you feel like you have to die every single training session or you're falling behind. Or if you're not lifting inside 90%, why even try? Mentally, you're just checking into that level of pain and that level of commitment every day. It's like flexing your brain to prove that you're unbreakable. But on top of that, going and owning a gym and coaching four classes a day plus a couple privates

and you realize that each class, you go walk a mile. You're not just walking a mile. It's like intense walking and you're trying to keep the energy of the room up and you're not just walking a mile. It's like intense walking, and you're trying to keep the energy of the room up, and you're helping people. My favorite, this is like my favorite CrossFit trainer coach move, when somebody would fail like a 245-pound back squat, and you'd walk over and clean it cold. It was my favorite move ever. If you do that enough, if you are coaching four classes, that's four miles of

walking a day at relative intensity. If you are doing two privates, you're probably looking at another mile on top of that. Plus in the middle of the day, just to be able to get out of the gym, you go walk for a couple of miles. You start to to accumulate 15,000, 17,000 steps every single day of your life. There just is barely enough food that you can put in your face to keep up with the caloric demand of actually being able to get better at lifting weights to go along with it. That transition from I need to eat as much as I possibly can to, well, how do I go from eating everything to this sustainable amount of food that I won't become obese at like, and, and the number of times I've gotten, or this, this plays out and like the, the diesel dad training program that we have and the, the number of guys that are like training really hard and trying to be really

strong in their twenties and early thirties. And then all of a sudden it's like, well, how do you transition out of that and actually have a, a nutrition strategy that works that like you don't going backwards and how much you're eating is hard because your body's so accustomed to to being able to like eat like i could sit down and just smash a pound of meat and not it's so easy that's very unnecessary at this stage of the game though but it tastes so so good right like a cheeseburger right can i get double meat please like a pound in between two pieces of bread but being for but being serious for our audience to give you guys an idea of what it takes to really like if you want to maintain or cut like literally if

you go for a mile walk just a walk mile, you only really burn 100 calories, which is like, what is that, like a lollipop? Friends, we're going to take a quick break. As a reminder, get over to dieseldaddiet.com. Of course, I want you to optimize your metabolism, lose 13 pounds in 13 weeks, and build a strong, lean, and athletic body you're proud of. On top of that, we have to thank our friends over at Organifi. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. That is where the green, the red, and the gold drinks are the juices. They're delicious. The micronutrients. You've probably seen me post about this stuff all the time because every single day of my life, I wake

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risk-free at leakygutguardian.com forward slash shrugged. Use the code shrugged to save 10% off your order. Leakygutguardian.com forward slash shrugged. L-E-A-K-Y-G-U-T-G-U-A-R-D-I-A-N.com forward slash shrugged. LeakyGutGuardian.com. Friends, let's get back to the show. That's one of those ridiculous marketing ploy 100-calorie packs where they give you like seven tiny Chips Ahoy cookies, and they write 100 calories. Yeah.

And that does – I mean, so my point being, like, you really do – if your goal is to weight does, I mean, so my point being like you really do, if your goal is to, you know, weight maintenance, weight loss, you will, you will not out exercise your calories. It's just, you're going to get hungrier too. Cause as you start to work out harder, you'll get hungrier, you'll snack, you know, it's like a Snickers bar. I don't even have any calories. It is like 500. So that's five miles. Your body also gets so good at adapting to whatever stimulus you're throwing at it.

Like if I, I probably walk four to five miles a day just cause I have my, my, like my loop in my neighborhood. It's not like my body is like ramping up and, and preparing for these, these walks. I barely even consider exercise to be a part of the amount of calories that I

need on a day to day basis because my body's so accustomed to training. It's like 24 years later, my body's not like, Oh my gosh, this, this exercise thing, oh, my gosh, this exercise thing. We really need to ramp up because Anders is going to do front squats today. No.

It's like just part of the day. Your body is like, oh, you're not going to do burpees today? I'm going back to sleep. Yeah. All right. Right. It's a really interesting thing to watch conversations between people who are not fitness people and don't know anything about training for the most part. They kind of know like the mainstream pop culture ideas of what fitness and training is.

And then there's, you know, when we talk to other professionals and when I talk to other coaches or athletes, like I rarely hear them talk about burning calories it almost never happens they're talking about performance and getting stronger building muscle mass improving their technique and calories are a part of the conversation but those people recognize to travis's point for a minute ago that burning calories is much harder than just simply not eating those calories in the first place you can eat you can eat enough volume of food to feel full and just modify the foods that you eat. That way you can not restrict the amount of food you're eating but keep your calories low.

That's a much better plan for like a long-term sustainable plan than to try to burn calories to make up for the fact that you aren't eating very well. I'm going to have to go with the fact that I do believe if one of like a hack a weight loss hack would definitely be increasing the protein higher than normal like an exceptional amount who i feel like it was we talked and we've had campbell dr bill campbell yeah yeah and so like when you go three even four you know uh grams per kilogram it's just what you do is you're not hungry anymore,

and you have that thermic effect of food, which Andrews mentioned earlier. So I would feel like those two combined definitely would lead me to try that ploy first is to just increase my protein and, you know, while watching other things and see what happens. Am I going to feel full? You know, do I feel like, you know, I'm burning more calories? The other thing for the most part – I was going to say, I think most people don't realize when they eat protein

that like a quarter of those calories are going to be consumed as a part of the process of converting the protein into either muscle mass or whatever building blocks it is building and or energy used for activity which is a very low amount for protein in the first place but yeah a quarter like at least 25 or so of protein is going to be consumed just as a part of processing that food and it's not like carbs is a little less than that it's more like 10 or 15 percent fats a little less than that it's more like five percent kind of on the high end so protein in addition to having that that satiating effect where you eat it in it, it

makes you feel less hungry because for whatever reason, it just that your hunger signals are dampened with protein compared to if you eat something like sugar, where like you eat, you eat calories from sugar and then all of a sudden you're like, you're way hungry. Yeah. It should taste good. That's why. Yeah. That's right.

That's definitely a part of it. Well, I mean, this morning I started my day with eight ounces of chicken breast. Nobody eating chicken breast for breakfast like five minutes later is like, damn, I'm ready for some more food. Some more chicken breast. Yeah, I can't wait to eat more plain white chicken breast. If you want to curb your appetite, have more white plain chicken breast. Yeah. You will not be hungry in five minutes.

But if you go and eat nature's ice cream called dates and apricots and delicious fruit, all of a sudden the next like fruits obviously healthy for you don't don't read too much into that but when you when you have like very delicious tasting food you want more delicious tasting food to go along with with it you find yourself hungry dude when i think about carbohydrates i barely even count those as calories because they're just so easy to burn up not that i'm out eating a bunch of ice cream, but like with the amount that we train and the intensity that you bring to whatever time or whatever it is that you're burning, you can eat. You can eat those things. They're delicious.

Time them around your workouts and feel great about it. I think there's a time and a place for everything. It's just how much and when, you know, that would be the key. And like, I think that that's a, that is like when, when,

when you're talking to people about how to eat, everybody in the world is telling them to stop eating something, whether it's the keto people telling you to stop eating carbohydrates, whether it's the paleo people telling you to stop eating gluten, whether it's the zone people telling you to stop eating more than 12 cashews at a time. Like there's just endless number of people telling you to restrict something. And you can really get a hold of people's brains and sneak your way into their life by saying, instead of stopping what you're doing, just eat more protein. Right. Get to more grams of protein in a day, like consuming more grams of protein than you weigh in pounds.

And once somebody eats, if you're a 200-pound male, good luck trying to get to 200 grams of protein. It's really challenging if you've never practiced eating. It's a really tough process to find a way to get two pounds of meat down your stomach

every day. It's a lot harder than it sounds. Everyone's like, oh, steak. I love steak. Try eating two to three per kilogram of body weight. The key to that is chimichurri. I would just stand over my cutting board

and just fucking cut steak and just glops of chimichurri. I just can't stop eating. I have to force myself away from the cutting board. I am eating steak tonight there it is um dude that bulgogi steak that ashton makes yeah i can i don't even need to ever need i'll just eat it cold for yeah i feel like that travis what no oh my lord it's the best man it's like a Korean barbecue super flavorful Costco has this it is it's Korean barbecue it's got like soy sauce base I'm about to try that b-u-l-g-o-g-i

I think you can google it is absurd um when we were in San Diego they used to like sell it at Costco the one in Raleigh is not that good or the one by our house is not that good it's like over salted and all this we had to go find a way to make it our own because they used to sell it at Costco. The one in Raleigh is not that good or the one by our house is not that good. It's over-salted and all this. We had to go find a way to make it our own because we used to get it every... We still eat it every week, but we have to make it on our own now. But the meat that we use is called flat meat, which I had never even heard of before. But Costco's got it and it's super lean it's really tender it's delicious and dude you can go and find a little bulgogi sauce recipe korean barbecue and it it i will just stand over the tupperware and because you buy it in the costco meat size you get like

three and a half pounds of it made at once. You just crush all week long. It lasts at least a day and a half. I say all week. It literally lasts maybe two days in my house. Doug, let me ask you a question. Do you put it over rice with some kimchi? Oh,

oh, that's how you get all your protein. What do you think about like, um, where they, I heard, you know, during my sports nutrition class that really all of us have very similar metabolisms and the difference lies in NEAT, like what you mentioned earlier prime example. She literally eats. If you look to her, you're like, oh, she has a high metabolism.

But she gets up at 5 a.m. and the moment she wakes up, she's like zooming around like a bee. You know, like, you know, she's ironing, she's picking up stuff, she's cleaning. Her house is always immaculate. She just moves. So is that true? But, you know, then again, you know,

I know that there's some hormonal issues. You know, some people have thyroid issues. But, like, how much of that, you know, then again, you know, I know that there's some hormonal issues, you know, some people have thyroid issues. But like how much of that, you know, is true? Like, you know, how much does genetic really play a part or is it just simply people move more? Well, I imagine there's both a physiological and psychological component to that. Like someone could wake up in the morning and they're just buzzing around their house, not because they like actually have a lot of energy, but because they're scared or they have, they have a lot of anxiety right now. And they're just like,

ah, and there could be just countless reasons for being fearful or having anxiety. It's probably, it's a very common thing for many people in people cope and handle that very differently. Some people, because they have that anxiety, they're,

they're on the move and they're working and they turn to workaholics or they train, they overtrain or whatever it is. And some people, because of their anxiety, you know, they, they just play video games all day because they just, I don't want to deal with the world. So I'd imagine there's, there's both the physiological side where, you know, hormone fluctuations and whatnot. Like if you're, you know, if you have super low testosterone, well, maybe you're just going to be, you're just more tired than other people. And so you're going to sit, if you have super low testosterone, well, maybe you're just going to be, you're just more tired than other people. And so you're going to sit on the couch more because it just, it just makes sense for you in that, in that state. But if you're a person that just like has naturally much higher testosterone, then maybe you just naturally are more willing to go to the park with your kids and whatever else.

Right. Yeah. There's lots of fluctuations there for sure. I totally agree. My mom is down 26 pounds in retirement it's like she lost 26 pounds in like the first six months of retiring for one simple reason she walks everywhere she's got nothing to do so she walks she walks like six miles a day and it's not regular walking it's like what i would consider a jog but she walks like six miles a day and it's not regular walking it's like what i would consider

a jog but she walks so damn fast i can barely even keep up i feel like i'm running most people will be better off walking like that than some of the stuff i see them jog you see people jogging and they're like literally not moving i'm like just walk fast if it'll be better on your joints. Yeah. If fitness was like stand-up comedy funny, making fun of people running at the park would be world-class going viral on YouTube stand-up comedy sometimes. Dude, I'm going to give you guys the best idea. Anyone listening, feel free to do it. If someone would take a camera and go gym to gym in America,

walk in and film the shit you see you would be the most hilarious thing on earth i i bet i feel like right now though the education and the ability and and maybe it's crossfit maybe it's olympic weightlifting but people move so much better now than they did 15 years ago go to plan Planet Nutrition and see what you see. With the caveat that I don't really go to regular gyms. Right. I'm talking about going to the Globo gyms of the world. From Globo gym, because they give on CrossFit such a bad,

you always see the CrossFit fails. It's because people are trying snatches and muscle up they're trying hard moves go into just your local global gym and sit there and just be like like people really do curls in the squat rack it's amazing that's a thing i mean even and that's like a piece of almost the the puzzle is like how little exercise specifically matters like you could go and do that if you want to plan a fitness and you just butcher and you do that arm over your head ab thing that looks like you're doing a pull down yeah uh i wish i what are they pullovers ab those are actually i like the machine i've never really gotten into too much if you do it like a

yeah like whatever it is no matter what the exercise is those people can still reach all of their goals yeah more protein to see more protein and watch the total calories that you put your mouth doesn't eat protein yeah move it's uh that's what bill campbell said was like the the two big factors yeah protein gram protein per pound of body weight and keep your calories low enough where you lose weight you'll maintain muscle mass and make sure you lift weights of course and if you it it actually is the only thing he was saying that overrides calories inverse calories out you can go eat 13 000 grams of protein a day you will lose fat because you would just be in meat sweats all day long so i don't i mean like i don't want to make

it out to be like that would be a lot of calories yeah he did say it because i asked him that question when we're talking to him i'm like so doesn't this one you know and he said you know based on the research that's now it does kind of like you know now my professor here at Lenoir-Rhyne, the sports nutrition, she said several things, which we didn't – I've only taken the classes, so I'm not an expert. But she said several things. You know, don't laugh in the face, but, you know, like calories in, calories out, for the most part, yes, Lane Norton is the one.

I'm definitely not arguing with Lane. I hope you get in an argument with Lane. Don't blow me up. Here we go. Lane, I will beat you up. You might argue with me, but I'll beat you up. Fast forward to the 47-minute mark. Yes.

So anyway, my point being is there's a few things to do. Protein, though, is probably the one that I know. It would probably help. Make sure you move as much as possible and then yeah eventually you're gonna have to watch what you eat though you have to minimize those calories doug you mentioned something earlier that i'd love if you uh dug into a little bit more on the food volume versus total caloric intake and how the relationship between those two yeah i think a lot of people, they think

about dieting and losing weight, like there's going to be less and less and less food, and they're gonna be really, really hungry all the time. I've, I learned this from fighting MMA, like I was competing weightlifting and MMA at the same time, I was competing weightlifting, either at like 85 kilo 187 pounds, or, or 94 kilos, 207 pounds, depending on where I was at. But then I'd fight MMA 170. So I was bouncing up and down all the time. And I actually found it incredibly, I wouldn't say all the way easy to do,

but it was doable every time. I never really had trouble making weight in either direction. And when I was doing the weight cuts for MMA, um, you know, there are, there are definitely times where it was like, okay, like I gotta, I gotta weigh in on, on Friday and I can't really eat very much food, but I don't want to be hungry all the time. I still want to be able to train and I want to feel good and, and all that. So finding ways to eat large volumes, but low calories really became a large part of that game so obviously you know vegetables are are the easy go-to here because you know you could eat a pound

of broccoli and and take in very little um you know fiber has a component there too it's a non-digestible carbohydrate so it doesn't really contribute to your caloric load and so same deal like making sure i was getting enough protein and then and then especially toward the end with with mma like towards or toward the end of a cut if i have a fight in two weeks you can keep your fat pretty dang low like you want to have enough healthy fatty acids essential fatty acids for for many reasons but long-term health you need those fatty fatty acids to, to build whatever in your body. And those numbers really aren't that high. That's under a hundred grams for most people in a day. It's not like you, you need many hundreds of grams of protein.

It's, it's, it's a relatively low number as long as you're eating healthy, quality food. Yeah. I mean, that's the building block of like hormones. So like you need that for testosterone production. Yeah. For heaven's sakes, your wife will appreciate it. Yeah. You don't want to cut it out long-term at all, but in the short term, you're just trying to reduce calories. Like if you want to have good training, high intensity ish training, if you're, you're sparring and lifting weights and whatever else, having carbohydrates is generally a good thing. And so the short term you can go super high on carbohydrates keep your protein at its kind of base level and keep your body fat or keep your your fatty acid intake very low which keeps your

calories down which helps you still lose weight again if you have like a hard cut off in two weeks i have to weigh in at this weight then you can make those kinds of changes but long term for most people if you're trying to lose body fat out of you know a sustainable rate and or keep off body fat uh actually let me tackle back what was your original question uh just the relationship between food volume and total caloric intake right okay so to to expand on that for the long term like i was just about to get to um just you know making slight portion adjustments on your plate if normally your plate say is divided like a third a third a third where it's like kind of got like meat on one and then like a potato with some butter on the other third and

then like broccoli on on the the third third you know maybe maybe you just modify those portions where now it's like a quarter a quarter and then half your plate is broccoli right so you're still eating a lot of food you still have a full plate of food you're just making little tiny adjustments so you know maybe maybe you take half the butter away and then you then you expand the amount of broccoli and now you're still eating a good amount of food and and you you hopefully can lose weight without feeling hungry all the time. Yeah. And without sitting with your friends while they're eating this, you have the same plate. You know, my plate's full too. It's just not as delicious as yours.

On top of like, on top of increasing the amount of protein, I think a really good idea too is like just one time a day having like a big salad. Like if you can make it happen, just go eat a big salad like if you can make it happen just go eat a big salad because the the volume of food that will be going in with a very low and that doesn't mean you go and put like seven different cheeses on it and then load it with all the olive oil and the dressing right yeah like the dressing is terrifying oh the the amount of soybean oil. Soybean oil should be outlawed. It should be illegal.

There is nothing more terrifying than soybean oil getting into salad dressing and you not knowing it's there because if you do not have a bathroom near you, it's about to be a disaster. You've got to find you've got to find i i soybean oil uh there's a a bag of salad that i always yeah i have a real uh distaste for the soybean or so if you there's a bag of salad i love like a pre-made salad so i don't have to think about it pour it in and they give you this delicious dressing that goes along with it. And you would think, oh, my gosh, I'm eating salad.

I feel so healthy. And then you pour the dressing in that they give you, and it's basically mayonnaise. It's like mayonnaise with soybean oil to thin it out. Oh, man. It is so foul. And the first time I did it, got like violently ill like it was i i was like how in the world did i just eat something that seems how did kale make me feel like this and i went back yeah kale didn't i went back and looked and it was like just pure vegetable oil. It was oil cooked at like basically on the surface of the sun to turn it into an edible product.

Disgusting. But just salad with maybe a light vinegar. There you go. And have one a day. Get all the stuff you need. And it's also just very filling, and it curbs your appetite so well. Fiber. What Doug said earlier is fiber. It's like, you know, I think even Weight Watchers,

you know, people hate on Weight Watchers, but they're pretty good. They're normally ahead of these curves. They've been talking about several things we've talked about. They just say them in different ways, little trendy terms. They've been saying this stuff for a while, but, like, they don't count, you't count fiber towards calories, which is beautiful. No one is going to get fat by eating tons of fiber. No chance.

Or if they do, they're going to have the most cleanest GI tract of all time. It's like – so it won't happen. To expand a little bit on your soybean oil comment for people in the audience that are wondering like why that's so i don't know why it's so funny but yeah because everybody knows what it feels like when you get like if you go to a restaurant and you're like hey can i get the salad they're like what kind of dressing and they or they just bring one out you're like i'll just pour this on there it's going to taste delicious Or it's like why Chipotle makes everybody run to the bathroom after they eat it. There's funky oils in there that your gut biome looks at and goes, oh, get that out now.

Get that out now. Chipotle is like world famous for destroying your gut biome. Nice. gut biome yeah nice uh so regarding soybean oil specifically it tends to be one of the out of all the different types of fat or oils rather that you could use uh you know olive oil corn oil safflower oil whatever vegetable oil um it has the one of the higher proportions of pro-inflammatory polyunsaturated fatty acids linoleic acid specifically it's like over half of the volume i did my master's thesis on essential fatty acids and had to look into all these different oils and whatnot so all the different fats and oils they

all have a spectrum of different fatty acids within them you have you have saturated monounsaturated polyunsaturated fatty acids and then within each of those categories you can break them down even further into the individual fatty acids, which is probably more than we need for this conversation. But if you look at soybean oil, it has a very high percentage of linoleic acid, which is a pro-inflammatory omega-6 fatty acid, which we're talking about

chronically high systemic inflammation. You get that in large part from eating these very processed kind of quote-unquote bad oils like soybean oil. And most processed foods require those type of oils, and then they hydrogenate them to give the food a better texture, which creates trans fats, which trans fats are probably basically the worst fatty acids that you could possibly eat, which they're banned now. They might have been banned. No, they should be should be in most places. I think even McDonald's, I don't think has them trans fats. I think that's how bad they are.

But anyway, if you look at something like, like olive oil, as an example, it's, it's mostly oleic acid, which is a monounsaturated kind of more neutral fatty acid. That doesn't really have much play into how much inflammation is produced. If you look at fish oil it's the opposite it has a very strong anti-inflammatory effect even though fish oil and and linoleic acid they compete for the same enzyme so if you have a lot of the pro-inflammatory one actually it it steals the enzymes that that convert fish oil or actually more specifically the plant version of fish oil, we'll call it alpha-linolenic acid that converts into fish oil.

If you're eating too much pro-inflammatory omega-6, it'll steal those enzymes and even further decrease that conversion process. That's why you want to have that kind of magic one-to-one ratio between the two, unlike most people that have more of like a ratio of like 10, 15, 20 to one of pro-inflammatory to anti-inflammatory polyunsaturated fatty acids that's awesome you could tell he did his thesis on that he was yeah deep little did i know when i'm having my soybean fits doug i should call doug be like get me out of this get me out of this um to to wrap this up on on like the

the amount of energy needed to actually digest food like that the thermal effect of food how much do is that even like really worth thinking about in, in like your fat loss or, or muscle gain, uh, conversation, like it being such a tiny piece of the puzzle. It's like, I,

everybody's heard you should be eating six times a day to keep your metabolism revved up and constantly digesting food to, to, to burn calories. And I never think about that. No. Or do I advise people to think about it? I think we were well past that being true.

I mean, for some people, like if you, if you can't, you know, like if you need that many times to get the proper calorie, like it's hard to eat. You know,

if I tell you to eat 400 grams of protein a day or whatever, you know, it's hard to eat it in three meals. So six might make more sense. But as far as keeping your metabolism going, that's definitely not the case. You could conceivably eat once a day. It just would be – you would have to eat, I mean, a meal the size of my desk. But, you know, you definitely don't have to do that.

Yeah. I have a cool little figure here. Like, from that class, it's like, you know, I think Doug said this, that the BMR, you know, what it takes to keep you alive, is anywhere between 60, some people 75%, and then the thermic effect of food is anywhere between, you know, 10 to 30. And then activity alone is 15 to 30 so obviously those ranges all has to do with like how much activity or you know or you know how much you know protein i'm eating that's that's why it ranges yeah in the end focus on calories get enough protein,

eat foods you like to fill in the rest and make sure you're lifting heavy weights to have muscle and burn more calories. Like Corey Greger says, wake your ass up

and move. That's right. Right. Go get 800 meters of lunges. He's on like 20 days in a row or something like that right now. I know.

I got texting back right now as soon as we have a little break. So we're going to do a podcast. That's only like 20 days in a row or something like that right now. I know. I got texting back right now as soon as we have a little break. We're going to do a podcast. That's right. Coach Travis Mash. Tell the people. Oh, MashLead.com. You can check me on Instagram, MashLead Performance.

Doug Larson. On Instagram, Doug Larson. I'm Anders Varner. At Anders Varner, we are Barbell Shrugged. Barbell underscore shrugged. Get over to BarbellShrugged.com forward slash Diesel Dad where all the dads are getting strong, lean, athletic, without sacrificing family, fatherhood, or fitness. And please, all of you in Palm Springs,

San Diego, LA, and Vegas, get over to Walmart. We are in the pharmacy. Three programs on the shelf right now. We'll see you guys next week. That's a wrap, friends. Make sure you get over to dieseldaddiet.com launching today. Also, I want to thank our friends over at. Make sure you get over to diesel.diet.com. Launch today. Also, I want to thank our friends over at the Air Force.

Get over to airforce.com. Check out all the special warfare stuff. We've got tons of content coming out about them. And I'm really excited about it. I also want to thank our friends over at Organifi. Organifi.com forward slash shrug. Save yourself 20% on the green, red, and gold juices. And leakygutguardian.com from our friends over at Bioptimizers, leakygutguardian.com

forward slash shrug, save 10% using the code shrug. Friends, we're going to see you Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday this week and I'm stoked!