Barbell Shrugged - How to Eat to Increase Muscle, Lose Fat, and Build Confidence in the Kitchen w/Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #460

Episode Date: April 20, 2020

5 Day Sale: Save 75% Buy 1 Get 4 Free - Nutrition Bundle - Start Today   In today’s episode the crew discusses:   The benefits of maintenance calories  Why the world is overeating but the fitness industry is underrated How long should you eat at maintenance calories What are the best ways to lose fat How do you eat to build muscle What is the best way to reverse diet How can you build confidence in the kitchen   5 Day Sale: Save 75% Buy 1 Get 4 Free - Nutrition Bundle - Start Today   And more…   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Travis Mash on Instagram   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Paleo Valley  - Save 15% at http://paleovalley.com/shrugged   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   Purchase our favorite Protein, PreWOD, PostWOD, and Amino Acids here and use code “Shrugged” to save 20% on your order: https://bit.ly/2K2Qlq4    Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://bit.ly/3b6GZFj Save 5% using the coupon code “Shrugged” http://magbreakthrough.com/shrugged to get a 10% discount with coupon code SHRUGGED10.

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forward slash nutrition bundle. You're going to save 75%. Nutrition bundle launches this week. All of our nutrition resources in one place. I'm super stoked about this. Let's get into the show. I realize there's a higher probability of getting kidnapped wearing it. I've never touched it.

It just sits there and collects dust. Oh, because they think they'll kidnap an army person? No, just walking around like screaming i'm an american uh yeah i just it's i don't know like when you're in the middle of a war going international it's just like it's whether i'm just overthinking it or not i just didn't want to be walking around with a bunch of cam i used to actually in san diego have a camo backpack and they go through the line and they people would like let me go to the front and be like thank you for your service and i'd be like i'm just bald yeah and i have a backpack i'm i'm terrified i just lift weights i'm sorry

me too yeah i just hit the record button you guys guys want to hang out? Let's talk about the food. Welcome to Barbell Shrugged. I'm Anders Varner. That one's Doug Larson. That one's Coach Travis Smasher. Today on Barbell Shrugged, we're going to talk about how you eat to lose body fat, how you eat to get jacked, and we're going to walk you through step by step. really cool product coming out, the nutrition bundle. We have taken five of our best nutrition products, the Barbell Shredded Nutrition Program, Shredded Nutrition. We have taken Nutrition for Weightlifters, which is your guide to increasing muscle without putting on a bunch of extra unneeded body fat. And then Faction Foods, which is the program to help you create a sustainable really high level habits so you never have to worry about eating poorly and just really creating a really good uh really good habits for how to eat and then tacking that on with brand doug's brand new uh ebook emom aesthetics so you which is our very first really body weight or body part split workout. And all those will be inside 20-minute e-moms, which is really cool.

So you can get in, get out, get jacked all at the same time. And then our mass gain, really you're just going to get super jacked. 20 Rep Back Squad, our best-selling e-book right now. Put it all together into the nutrition bundle saving 75 75 percent um and you can find that over at barbell shrugged.com forward slash um nutrition bundle but today we're going to be walking through the entire nutrition system from uh just kind of like laying out the highest level of how do you find maintenance calories? How do you, how long you need to be in maintenance to see the maximum results?

And then kind of tailoring those nutrition plans for fat loss or muscle gain, or really just creating long-term sustainable solutions to living a healthy life where food isn't the thing that you need to be concerned about. Doug Larson, I'm going to kick it over to you because I would love to hear just when you sit down and start thinking about either your own nutrition or working with clients and seeing some of the biggest faults, where do you start this conversation when people come to you asking for nutrition help? Well, if you look at any popular diet right now, they almost always focus on one of the kind of core aspects of eating.

It's either food quality, which is basically whole real foods for the moment, quantity, which is macros, or nutrient timing, which is like carb backloading and things like that. In my opinion, you really, you really need to focus on all of them. You need to be hitting your macros with high quality foods. And then ideally timing, the timing of your meals is if you're doing those first two things is also important. It's kind of like the last, you know,

five or 10% of the, of the equation there. But I usually ask people what they've done before. You know, have you tried doing the paleo thing? Have you tried doing macros or calorie counting? or 10% of the equation there. But I usually ask people what they've done before. You know, have you tried doing the paleo thing? Have you tried doing macros or calorie counting? Like what's worked for you? What doesn't? I think Andy does a really good job. Andy Galpin, he has his concept of are you a chef or are you a cook?

And if you're a cook, you just want someone to give you the recipe. Tell me my macros. I will do exactly what you say. They don't't want to wing it they want to be very precise like those those tend to be more like numbers driven oriented people and some people they don't want the like the stress of trying to hit like exactly you know 89 grams of fat every day and it's just like a pain in the ass really to try to weigh and measure all your food etc et cetera. So some people just want to be able to wing it. And if you just tell them, just make sure you eat super high quality food and you have a carb, fat, and protein in every meal,

like that's enough information for them to make some progress. It really depends on who you're dealing with. Yeah. Mash, we got to talk about you because you get people – you actually have a lifter right now. You were talking in the pre-show about cutting weight and how, how in depth do you guys go with your athletes as far as just getting, I mean,

nutrition clearly matters a lot, but you've also got to have people hitting weights and getting on scales two hours before they go and compete on the biggest stages. Much more complicated than like most you know like powerlifting minus the ipf is like you have at least a 24 hour weigh-in and then but in ipf it's two hours as well but so but for the majority of people they get 24 hours that's easy like you doesn't almost anyone can do that and be all right like in when you got two hour weigh-in man it's you got to be precise and you need to be like living it you know much longer than you do in powerlifting meaning you need to

be i would say at the most uh no more than five percent above your body weight you know i would i think is a good number um but less is better like you know between three and five percent is as far as you need to go above your body weight class. When they're in an off-season, or not even off-season, but maybe leading up, up until about two weeks out, where do you typically have your athletes sitting? Are you tracking to a maintenance calorie level? Is it just eat healthy? What does that conversation look like?

It's always going to be we're going to track. Because, you know, Sandra, the girl we're talking about, who's the Danish, she's team Denmark. And we're trying to drop to 49 kilos, which we've made it once now. And luckily now we have an extra year because the Olympics got moved in 2001. She needs to, you know, make – well, assuming that they don't change it, we're waiting to see if they change the way that you qualify for the Olympics. So assuming they don't change it, we still got to make one more meet as a 49,

and that's going to give her a much better chance of making the Olympics. But right now, since we're like on hold, we're like definitely letting her get higher. So we're trying to, it's almost like bodybuilding all season is we're trying to add some muscle quality muscle. So the next time we get to 49, you know, there'll be more, you know, in theory, there'll be more, more muscle, which is, you know, muscles, how you lift every weight.

Yeah. I actually have been uh are like most listened to episode recently when i uh let the world know how i feel about people that eat or just do anything at 80 that like general 80 20 um your favorite on life i'm gonna get you an 80 20 t-shirt bring it on let's do it um people love that show they hated it on instagram they love the long form that's why that's why social media sometimes isn't for me if you make it if you make a sick little one-liner you offend somebody and then it goes then instagram finds it and takes it off you get you get 45 minutes to an hour to sit down and have a real conversation, and it's the most listened to episode of the year. But in captivity here, it's been interesting.

And I'm doing this like mile. The training has been really awesome, but the nutrition piece has been really tough. Not because I'm like eating poor quality. It's just the timing is so crazy. Like being up this early, going to bed, working at odd hours because we have like a baby that we have to babysit.

So like there's been crazy weird pieces to figuring out this new life. And one thing that I've really learned is that I typically don't have an issue hitting like maintenance calories on a daily basis. And for me, that's somewhere around like 2,800 calories a day. I get plenty of protein. I get plenty of fat. Carbohydrates fine. But when I start to get stressed, just hitting a minimum amount of calories to stay where you're at is so hard. It's such an amount of food that's just really challenging to build in. And I think that's one of the biggest problems that people have is in the real world are not in our fitness bubble but in the real world we overeat and that's where like crazy levels of obesity happen and why 47 or whatever that crazy

number is of people that are obese and like outside of the fitness bubble but inside the fitness bubble i think we we have an insane number of chronic eaters that are constantly dieting, trying to get to a physique or a body. And they think that cutting calories and cutting calories is continually the way to get to that specific physique. And I generally don't really ever think about it. I'm like, just keep eating. You'll get there. Eat your three meals a day. Eat your four meals a day.

They should be big meals. You're burning a lot of calories. But now I see, it's one of the things that I've learned the most this week is that it's like, or this month is that it's really challenging sometimes when you're stressed

to actually get to 2,800 calories a day because it feels like your day goes so fast. But if you're in a caloric deficit already, it's really tough. And finding a way to stay at maintenance for a very long period of time is probably one of the most challenging things for non-athletes that are working out a lot and already squatting already doing a lot of heavy strength and conditioning movements if they're in a crossfit gym or in a weightlifting gym like that's a really challenging piece um have you guys just kind of being in this, what have your nutrition habits been like as far as actually getting the amount of calories that you need in this quarantine? I haven't had trouble right now.

I think that there's two different people. People are either going to, when they're stressed, either do. I'm like you, though. Normally when I'm stressed, I lose weight and I don't eat some people get stressed and you do quite the opposite they overeat and then they're gonna gain weight so first of all you got to just determine like you know who are you like you know what where in that equation do you fit in but right now like honestly um i mean i hope no one gets mad i haven't been stressed because I'm on a farm, and so we have space. We can separate.

We can play on the farm. My kids can run. And so I've actually been way less stressed during this whole thing than I was prior. So I've been able to eat well. I've gotten a ton stronger. For my health, it's crazy, but this virus has been the best thing ever for my personal health yeah yeah yeah totally like i work out every day at least once if not twice i'm just hanging out at my house my kids are playing outside my weight room's in the garage like

my wife wants to train too and we just need something to pass the time right just hanging out with three three little kids you know three four or sorry a two three and five year old yeah so we just need something to do so we'll just be playing outside and i'll be like all right i'm gonna go jog the loop i'll be back in 15 20 minutes and she'll be like okay i'll go after you and then and then i'll be like okay you want you want to do the ab workout that we were talking about earlier okay let's go do it like we just we just need stuff stuff something to pass the time and then i'm home all day my fridge is right there i feel like anyone who assuming you're not you're not stressed to the point where you just

aren't hungry and you can't eat which that happens to me too funny enough but i'm in the same boat with you travis like i'm not that stressed out right now like this is actually less stressful for me than my normal day i'm just hanging out at home um it's his own it's his own separate type of stress but on the whole i'm less stressed out but my fridge is right there i feel like if you're home all day long and your fridge is right there you should be on a mass gain cycle you should be putting it on you'd be in there eating you know six seven meals a day training a day. This is the perfect opportunity to bulk. Oh, see, you guys are sure.

I've had major results, yeah. Dude, I'm 10 pounds heavier than I was like two months ago. Oh, yeah. I'm way stronger. Literally, like three or four weeks ago, I lifted weights for the first time all year. And I front squatted like 374 380 something maybe

and now I'm at 450 like 3 or 4 weeks later this is great you guys are jerks I just refuse to be here's what I ate yesterday this is so bad I didn't eat lunch until like 12 o'clock

or breakfast I didn't have a bite of food until 12 o'clock or breakfast. I didn't have a bite of food until 12 o'clock. So we wake up, whatever, 5.30 a.m. wake up, work. At 9 o'clock, I become dad. And then from 9 until lunchtime, I just refuse to be in the house with her. So I'm actually outside so much more than I am on a regular day. So that's why I'm eating so much less. I feel really bad for people that live in New York City. Not just the people that are really sick, but the people that are stuck in their apartments

doing kettlebell flows until I would, oh my God, that would drive me absolutely nuts i gotta go i'm out of this city um but i'm just outside and i just refuse to be in the house with her because i know that i'm going to turn the tv on i know i'm going to like be on my phone so i just i'm outside and i'm not actually in front of the fridge at all so noon i feel like everyone's outside more right now where i live. It's like, no one wants to be cooped up in their house. And so like I go for a jog or, or if I happen to drive somewhere, which isn't, isn't that often. Um, I see tons of people out, like everyone's walking their dogs, everyone's going for jogs. Like everyone's like, yeah, they're, you know,

their husbands or wives or whatever. Like Pete, there's people everywhere. I feel like it's been good, good for people for that reason. It's been, yeah. people everywhere i feel like it's been good good for people for that reason it's been yeah humans i feel like have really benefited from just not having to go to work uh dude i'm teaching adelaide 21 months how to ride a skateboard right now i got her to go down the driveway yesterday in or standing on the board down the ramp. It's a little savage. That's awesome. I got to send you guys the video. Please.

I wish you could teach me how to teach rock. We have a skateboard we've been messing around with. I'm not a skateboarder, so I don't even know where to begin. Oh, man. She's smashing it. So I didn't even eat lunch. That's like three eggs, a cup of egg whites, two pieces of bread, some veggies.

That's like 800 calories. Five calories. That's barely enough. Louie Simmons would have you killed. Really? For saying egg whites? For just any of that. He would be like, no.

Not enough to happen. And then I worked out at 1. I trained at 1. And as soon as I got back in the house, she was awake again. So I had no time to eat after. I just went straight back outside. And I didn't eat until like 5 o'clock when she ate her dinner and then i had had like a piece of chicken at at 10 o'clock when i was or nine o'clock when i was done working like that's been like a standard day which has made

nutrition really really hard for me just because all of the normal systems that are in place for me to eat to a specific level of food are just gone. Yeah, I mean, you're going to – I mean, you'll get ripped like that. I mean, you're going to be weak, but you're going to get ripped. Look at that bicep. I worked out on the internet with my shirt off yesterday, Mass. Just trying to hit them with the abs a little bit. I mean, if you're going to eat like like that that's what you're gonna have but it actually is a really i think it's a on on a on a bigger conversation about nutrition the the the idea that people stay in these caloric deficits without even knowing that

they're in it specifically in the fitness industry people that are training all the time and they're they constantly have that like insecurity of like when they look at a plate of food they're like ah is that too much is that not enough without ever spending an amount of time at a maintenance level of calories it's really challenging because you're there's only so much you can continually take away before you're just starving yourself and your body's not going to move anywhere. Like the defense mechanisms just kick in. So getting it to a maintenance level, staying at a maintenance level, and the longer you're able to maintain that maintenance level, the more success you're going to have when you

either decide it's time to cut some body fat or increase muscle. And if people can find that number somewhere between 13 and 15, 13 and 16 times your lean body mass or just your body weight depending upon how lean you are, getting to that number I think is just a really awesome goal. And that's kind of like the thing that I end up talking to people the most about is like under eating. I feel like everybody under eats right now that is in the fitness space just because, or like is health conscious because they just don't understand how hard it is or how much food you

need to actually get to a place where you're giving your body the opportunity to run as efficiently as it needs to um do you guys have problems you don't have any problems getting to maintenance i feel like i'm on an island out here right now i mean i'm talking about the fact that i i'm like starving myself right now well i don't feel like i have a problem getting to maintenance it's just not it's just not like a big priority for you right now like if you if you were an athlete if you were still competing in crossfit or weightlifting or whatever it was and you were cooped up at home and like and lifting weights and being fit was like your number one goal and priority

then it would be incredibly easy right now you're more focused on work and taking care of your daughter like it's just not it's just not your number one priority even though it's a big deal to you yeah you guys talk about the basal metabolic rate to people you know because if that it's really i mean you can do what you just said and get you know pretty general but if you want to dial it in, you need to know that you need to know what your body's going to burn. If you're just like laying in your bed and then think about how much activity you're going to do. And then, and then after that,

and then you decide it just depends on what type of person you are. Are you a person who wants to know exactly, or you want a person who just wants to know in general. So like there's two people there's like always a yin and a yang. You know, there's people who eat a lot when they stress, people like me, like the three of us, who if you're stressed, you don't eat at all. And so you just got to know who you are.

That's a very big key. I think keeping a journal is a great way to go about it. Charles Pulligan used to talk about that, about how important, and when I say journal, there's a lot more to it than just, like, writing down what you eat. It's like writing down how you feel after you eat a certain food. It's writing down how you feel, how do you sleep at night. Because, you know, food, it runs our physiology.

You know, without food, like, you know, the body obviously eventually stops working. And so you need to know, like, what does your body use efficiently and what does your body use not very efficiently so yeah i feel like just just calculating calories off of a uh off a multiple is like one level of specificity and then and then travis you you swung to the other end you know going to a exercise physiology lab getting your your basal metabolic rate tested where they're they're just like they put a big tube in your mouth and you sit there and you breathe without moving for five minutes and it calculates all kinds of numbers for you and then you can make all these these estimations about activity levels and

and whatever else and try to come up to a number you're going to be guessing no matter what yeah i like i like kind of doing the happy medium there like more on the macros side of things where you know if you're a 200 pound person and you need therefore one gram protein per pound of body weight is a good guess estimation uh so you get you have 200 grams of protein and then you kind of just backward calculate your calories from there so if you have again a 200 pound person and there's four calories per gram of protein you need 200 grams of protein that's 800 calories and if you're doing like a 30 30 40 split of protein fats and carbohydrates then you can you can take 800 which

is 30 of your total and calculate your total you know so times by 10 divided by three, and you end up with, you know, just shy of 3000 calories around 2700 or so, then you can calculate your fat grams and your in your carbohydrates from there. I feel like I feel like that's, that's usually where I start. That way, people have an idea of how many calories they need, they have an idea of how many carbs, fats and proteins they need. And then you're really going to, every two weeks or so, kind of reassess. Are you maintaining weight? Are you going up? Are you going down?

Are you doing skinfold measurements or something simple? Is your body fat going up faster than you want to? Or you're losing weight, but your body fat's basically staying the same? Then you can kind of tweak from there, either tweaking all three of the macronutrients, or you can kind of just fluctuate your carbohydrates like once you get like a base amount of of essential amino acids and fatty acids then really all the extra carbs that you need um or all the extra calories you need can be from fluctuating carbohydrate intake right you know i um have you guys ever had totally just oh oh my god the great nutritionist he's my buddy i totally went blank i always talk about him yeah yeah we gotta set him up actually

he's the best i don't even know where he lives in the world but now that we are doing these things online and we can do anything we want florida is really he's in the world, but now that we are doing these things online, we can do anything we want. Florida is where he lives. Oh, he's in Tampa. That's right. Maybe we should just hold that because we're all going to Tampa. Yeah. And let me tell you about this dude.

I got him hooked up with USA Weightlifting. When we did our first coaching conference in Chicago, he was the guy who came and talked about nutrition. And he was talking about just how interchangeable, like fat and carbohydrates are like, it just depends on, you know, really what you can sustain, like, you can literally, you can do what you just said, the 3040, or you could easily do 4030, or even more, he said, literally just depends on, you know, what can a person sustain, like, what you enjoy eating more, fat or carbohydrates. He is so good about making it very simple.

He gets super pissed when people try to complicate something because there's no basis for it. I love – we will have a lot of fun interviewing him, and he's very to the point and funny. Yeah. We got a, maybe we should, we just have to go to Tampa. We have so many people to hang out with down there. Yeah.

The, the topic of reverse dieting, I feel like this comes up on, on the Instagrams a lot these days. And for people that have been in a caloric deficit or have been starving themselves, I say that very, sounds aggressive, but have been eating so little for so long and training just at high intensity and there's no bottom anymore because they're already 1,500, 1,800, maybe 2,000 calories and they've been doing it for months on end. They can't, there's no bottom anymore because they're already, you know, 1500, 1800, maybe 2000 calories.

And they've been doing it for months on end. It's not really that smart to just go and jump to 3000, um, strategies to, to kind of increasing that. Or have you guys had like, what do you do with your weightlifters when they're coming back from some massive cut and now they have to get back into a training phase? Are you tracking how they build that back up yeah you know and we've had actually had lane and andy help us with that but you know and you don't go crazy you know you give them like a little bit of time

to relax because mentally they're going to need it you know especially if you take someone like you know when hunter went from the 71s down to – she went all the way to 59s, dropped two weight classes. That's a lot. It's a lot. And it's a lot mentally, you know. Like, your brain is not going to handle that for very long. Yeah.

You do have to give them a moment in time where they stop counting. But only a few days because otherwise you'll create – you can really bounce back big time into a place you don't want to have to do it all over again yeah give them a dare to to relax their brain and then slowly add it back now i just go from like i was eating you know 1300 now we're going to go to 2500 yeah too much too quickly so like a couple hundred here and there and start monitoring how things are going. Yeah, I actually really like the two-week window that Doug was talking about. And 250 calories, like 250 to 300 seems like it's a pretty good number with people.

Where you're kind of bumping it up here and there or every two weeks, but you're not coming at it. And you can typically do it with like, it's just an extra sweet potato, or it's just an extra one piece of food that you're adding per week. So your body doesn't freak out when you go from eating 1800 to 3000 calories a day, um, and creating some sort of three to four week long strategy. I mean, in four weeks, if you're increasing 500, 500 calories a week, you're probably going to be very close to maintenance. Um, just in, in a one month period, if you're under eating or overeating that much to begin with, and it takes longer than a month, that's, we've got, you've got really big problems to overcome. It's going to be a very long road. Um, Doug, do you have any coming

back from fights have you have you had any experience with that or do you guys do you just have you just always gone right to where you want and your body just adapts pretty quickly yeah i used to cut weight and put on weight uh really frequently because i i was competing in weightlifting in the 94s, so 207 pounds, and then I was competing in MMA at 170. Of course, I'm not ever walking around at 170. It's not that big of a swing, but I was doing both of them, up and down, back and forth. If I had a fight coming up back to back, then I wouldn't go all the way to 94. I might compete at 85 in weightlifting. But what I used to do was for cutting for fights, I would always graph my weight.

I would like say, okay, I have six weeks to get to 10% above fight weight, which is like 187. That seems to be a good water cut weight. So 24 hours before, if I weigh right around 187, I can water weight cut within 24 hours all the way to 170 for a brief period of time and then hydrate my weight back up right around 187. I can water weight cut within 24 hours all the way to 170, you know, for a brief period of time and then hydrate my way back up and, and fight full length fights and feel fantastic the whole time.

You know, you, of course you need to get a rehydrate, uh, correctly and all that to, in order to perform well the next day. But, but it's,

it's different than weightlifting. You have two hours for weightlifting. Like Travis was talking about earlier. And in some cases with, with the fights, I'd have like 30 hours. So we might weigh in at like 4 p.m. the day before, and then I might not fight. Especially if it was the last fight of the night, if it was a title fight or whatever it was. We wouldn't fight until 10 p.m. So you get a long time to rehydrate and get back.

But as far as once the fight is over kind of kicking calories back up slowly and getting back to normal usually what i would do is um i always eat high quality i don't i don't ever eat junk they you know aside from you know a little piece here and there but like i don't eat i don't eat junk saturday night bro meal no uh and so what i would do is post fight you know the next day um i would just eat the highest quality food that i could and i would just i would just not worry about too much i would just i would just eat until i was comfortably full i generally wouldn't wouldn't stuff myself or, overeat on purpose, trying to put weight back on. I think it really helps with fighting and the fact that I have 30 hours to rehydrate,

like, cause for those 30 hours, I'm, I'm drinking a lot and then I'm, then I'm eating a lot. And so I kind of have this like 24 hour period where I'm, where I'm smashing food. That way when the fight's over, I don't have that itch to go eat because I've been overeating for the last 24 hours. It makes it really easy to go back to normal. So I would just eat mostly meat and vegetables, a little bit of fruit, not very many grains, and just eat as much of that as I felt like I needed,

drinking only water. Then throughout the next week or two, then I would intentionally start adding more calories back in, depending on how long I had until my next weightlifting meet. I tend to think 250 calories every two weeks is a good place to start. Another way to think about that is about 10% of calories. So if you're eating 2,500 calories, 10% would be 250. And so you would just add 250. You can just add 10% every two weeks,

depending on how fast you are or are not making progress. You can tweak, but that's a good place to start, I think. Shrug family, we're going to thank our sponsors, all the vitamins and minerals, all the love for our friends over at Organifi.com. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. You're going to save 20% the green, the red, the gold. You love them.

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PaleoValley.com forward slash shrugged. Let's get back to the show. I think also, you know, anytime in the gym when people would come to me with – it's really crazy when you start working with people, you know, when you're dealing with legitimate athletes, the changes that need to be made are always very small. And because they're already relatively dialed into the amount of food they need to eat, or they wouldn't be very strong. You don't need to worry when you're in the fight game too much because people

have been cutting weight since high school. They understand how to lose weight and their body's trained to do that because they've been cutting weight for years. But when you get into training regular general population people that just want to lose body fat and get into the gym, they want to see their abs one day. I feel like we don't want to talk about people that just want to see their abs, but that's like 95% of our country would just like to see an ab one day. And if you really think about the big rocks of like, one, getting to maintenance calories, so your body feels nourished with high quality food and then when you think about high quality food like just eat the piece of

chicken first if you can figure out a way to eat a large helping of lean meat three to four times a day you will not have room to eat much other junk you You will find yourself to be really, really full. I think people that are eating poor quality processed food, they may have a lot of calories coming in, but their body's constantly telling them, you're hungry. We don't have the nourishment. We don't have the nutrients that we need. So they feel hungry. And that's when all of the overeating happens like if you stick to eating the protein first and then eating the vegetable second and then go have as many cookies as you'd like you'll just realize there's not a lot of room left for cookies there's just there isn't you're not hungry and i don't think people understand many times how hard it is to eat three to four, for lack of better food, three to four chicken breasts in a day.

I remember that being one of the first lessons in eating of how hard – I would just take mustard and pour it on chicken breasts because I knew that I just needed to eat it. But I couldn't put another piece of chicken in my mouth. And I was like 16, 18 years old when I was doing this. Like that's, it's really challenging. If you prioritize the protein piece to get to, you know, one pound or one gram of protein per pound of body weight. You're looking at cans of tuna, chicken breasts, like just lead with the protein, make sure you're getting that number. And you don't, you don't really have to worry about a lot of other things. It's like the biggest rock to move. And then from there, go with the vegetables next. Like there's a process that you can put into place while you're eating that eliminates so much of the other stuff. But if you're eating a bunch of processed junk,

yes, there's calories coming in, but your body never registers that you're actually eating food. It's just processing things, but it needs these nutrients. It needs the protein. It's saying you're hungry just so you actually get some sort of nourishment that it can use to go and build muscle. I think that that was, you know, in coaching people through the gym, that was like the biggest thing. It was like, just eat the protein first, figure out a way to get four good helpings of protein in your day. And then everything else will start to fall in line because you're just not hungry to eat all that extra trash. I have to eat the vegetables first because I'll eat protein all day, every day.

That's never my problem. Yeah. Like that piece of broccoli. I got to eat that first. I'm just like, I'm doing this for my health. The piece of broccoli. One piece. I mean, I ate it.

You saw me eat it. On to the steak. Drew, do you like me? Did I eat the broccoli? Okay, we're good. I do think there's some value in eating the thing that you least want first. When you're the most hungry, you eat that first, and then you know you're going to get to the steak and chimichurri.

It's too good. Yeah, I'm getting to the steak. I'm making some chimichurri today. Oh, nice. It's the best. Sounds good. Yeah. But it's the vegetables I need just for my long-term health.

As I get older, I've been eating more and more vegetables. I'm starting to dig it, but protein is not my problem. I could easily do the carnivore diet thing, but I don't know. I can never, ever be the vegan. Impossible. Since I've been trying to put on more weight lately, since I trained twice a day,

I've been putting a lot of butter on all my vegetables, which I don't always do, but right now I do it every time, basically. I'll put, like, two big slabs of butter over my broccoli and sweet potatoes and whatever it is, and, man, it just makes eating so much more fun. Oh, yeah. It's so good. Yeah. Dude, what's that butter? I used to eat Kerrygold butter by the – like, just – I'd, like, put it in the pan for the eggs and then just take a big bite

like it was ice cream Kerrygold butter should be its own food group all kids do that they just smash butter I want butter daddy and I just cut them a piece of butter and they just pop it in their mouth they ask me for it all the time straight butter that's awesome

it's delicious straight butter my wife's awesome. It's delicious. Straight butter. My wife's not as big of a fan. I think it's great though. I think it's delicious. The Kerrygold really is. Now we do this like, it's like this log of Amish butter.

It's giant. I don't even know how they, I don't even know where Ashton gets it. It just sounds healthier calling it Amish butter. Doesn't it? It was like some nine-year-old churning it with a... Happy cows.

Whatever. I don't know what tool you would use to churn the butter. It was churned in China and they slapped the label on there. Chinese Amish. Either way, an eight-year-old was doing it. Oh, yeah, exactly.

Dang. That's brutal. Oh. You know, cutting, I think, a good thing, if anybody, do you think a lot of our listeners would benefit from, like, talking about cuts, about how to do it? Oh, I think that good thing, if anybody, you know, do you think a lot of our listeners would benefit from like talking about cuts, about how to do it? Oh, I think that it really, yeah. I mean, there are people, I actually got an email the other day about somebody was asking which program

they should buy, whether they should get nutrition for weightlifters or the one-ton challenge nutrition templates, because they have a weightlifting meet coming up in the future and what would help them kind of build towards their meat when they should start doing it. And the Nutrition for Weightlifters has an entire module on how to get to a cut. But I think it's a really interesting thing

because there's such a difference, and this is why kind of the faction foods things of like creating these systems for um health and longevity and i want to get super shredded are wildly different conversations about the exact same thing which is food and nutrition and meeting a goal but dude we're all dads it's really hard to sit to wake up in the morning be like this is a priority i need to get super shredded like one i'm married yeah two like uh there's a two-year-old that's trying to eat milk right now and won't get off my leg i gotta hopefully run a

business and train today right oh and i'm supposed to be selfish enough to try and get shredded. But yeah, I think it's really important because a lot of people are still very interested in their first powerlifting meet or weightlifting meet. I mean, even if you're competing at CrossFit, the goal is to be as light as possible and as strong as possible which is basically the same as weight lifting yeah and i think there's a massive difference clearly in how you live your life and then i'm trying to peak for the specific thing so i'd love to hear how your the conversation with your lifters goes i think you know one of the one of the coolest things i learned like when i was competing i would use distilled water to do the water cut, the hydrolysis. And I'll come back to that. And I would do, if I were competing on, say, Saturday, you know, like Monday, I'm having, you know, three gallons.

Then I'm going to two gallons. Then I'm going to one gallon. Then a half gallon. Then Friday, I'm just sipping. And normally it worked well. But then, you know, I would cramp, and a lot of bad things would happen. And that's when Andy is the one who told me, he's like, distilled water, because of diffusion and osmosis, is not that good

because it's going to pull the electrolytes out of your – because since there's none in the water, they're going to move to the area of less concentration. So it's going to pull that out of your muscles so that's not good and then really and then it's going to you know since the muscles do have you know some elements in them it's going to pull water in there so it's going to regular water and like have some elements in there. It should, then it's going to pull the water, you know, it's going to pull some water out, but leave the electrolytes in.

And that's what you want to do. So number one, don't use, you know, distilled water. Yeah. Use regular. Yeah. What do you, you know, if somebody comes to you for say their first through fifth weightlifting meets, what's your recommendation on how far they should actually cut um i think my biggest cut ever was like i i always walked around between like 93 and 193 195 but train or competed as a weightlifter at 87 when that was is that still a weight class so i only ever had now is

it 89 see i would have gotten smoked at 89 i would have had to go one lower and now 81 is the next one down so which is i would have had to have caught it that would have been what i would have caught too then just because i have a terrible idea because that's harrison morris he's like the he's a straight killer all right well off, Travis, let's talk about intentions of me walking on a platform. It's to stay as far away from Harrison as possible. Immediately what comes to my brain

is like, all right, where can we get him on Team USA? It's like, hey, I'm going to do a jiu-jitsu match. Doug's like, ah, I don'm gonna do a jujitsu match Doug's like ah I don't know there's this guy out of Ireland that's in that weight class you don't want to mess with him he's mean

I'm just talking about going to the YMCA and competing I was talking about arm wrestling I just want to arm wrestle somebody anybody yeah I remember I would like to just you know when the american open was just one event that was that was like my those were my qualifying totals

and it wasn't even that hard to get into it then that was that was what i was looking at i would say that one here's some tips i would give is like you know like maintaining between three and five percent and then within a couple weeks out try to get down to like two percent and then you know then you can use then it's not that hard to to take to cut two percent of water because if you're like if you're 50 kilograms you know what two percent of 50 is like one cat you know it's like one kilo so like that's nothing you know um anyone you know that one kilo is super doable you know a little bit above that three percent you know starts to get a little tougher you gotta think too like females have a little bit harder time for whatever

reason um so like guys can lose a little bit more without you know crushing them but you know i've seen like you know i've seen seen Hunter lose amazing amounts of weight. Now I've watched Sandra lose tons of kilos and not affect still setting PRs. So the key would be just being very wise. Getting 3% to 5% living there, cutting to 2%, 3% the week or two before, and then using just water you know, water. Trying to eat the whole time is the goal. Trying not to have that day where you don't eat at all because that can really mess some people up.

Yeah, every time I stepped on the regionals floor for CrossFit, I was exactly 185. That was like my confidence, the confidence in myself. Like I'm as strong today as I was 10 pounds ago at 195, but I know I'm going to be light and I know I'm going to be fast. Um, that was always like my, my goal weight stepping onto that. And then I think it's like 187 was what i competed in weightlifting at for some reason going to 185 always was like a it was kind of tough it's like you're when you're there you're kind of like in the like 184 87 and like fluctuating back and forth daily um

and there's just like numbers in your brain but but I always felt really strong at one 80 or like lifting as an 87. I felt like that, that never was like a tough number and it never really cost me any of the, the strength that I felt like I was walking onto the platform. He's got to know that. And that's the key. Cause a lot of times in weightlifting, people will actually get stronger.

Like when we took, when Hunter went from the 71s to the 69s, she said a lifetime PR clean and jerk. And she did the – is that right? 69 – or 60 – no, it's 60 – sorry. It's from 71 to 64, excuse me. And all these new weight classes still get – Yeah.

So that was what, six, seven kilograms. And she, you know, she clean and jerked 121 kilograms on our opener, like lifetime PR. So, you know, sometimes losing the body fat, especially Hunter, we might have been a little heavier at 71 than we should have been. And so she got faster. So her snatch didn't go anywhere at all. Matter of fact, it stayed at the tip top.

Like she's still in training snatch 100 kilograms, and she was losing to 64. So, you know, sometimes in weightlifting, powerlifting, you know, not so much. Like, you know, the kilos will definitely affect the squat. But in weightlifting, the speed, sometimes you get better. Yeah. Yeah. sometimes you get better yeah yeah um yeah i don't i i always recommended people just to if they could especially in their first like one to three just pick the easy class to get to um i think it's just go out going out especially early on if you're worried about weight cuts and

all that jazz like you're just doing it yeah Like it's hard enough to go from a training environment where you're having fun with your friends and trying to lift as much weight as possible to now you're standing out there and you've got three judges staring at you holding these cards and there's just a total different vibe when it's like there's no music and there's, there's a hundred people staring at you versus just being in the crew in your gym training and lifting with everybody so um so so worrying about you know cutting 10 pounds because it's your first second or third meet um just pick whichever

weight class you're closest to yeah you gotta cut 15 pounds just don't lift it the bigger one and get the experience first um but if you've got five to seven pounds and you can you can get there fun to play with your weight i normally have my um my weightlifters or power lifters in their first three five meets do whatever you weigh is what you weigh so that's the weight class you do because you because mainly they're doing local meets. So you don't have to like, you know, you don't have to tell USA weightlifting what you're going to weigh. You know, you have to declare the weight class you're going to be in.

Yeah. So like I let them see, see what you weigh, like go the weight class. Don't even add that stressor. And then once we've got, you know, now you're used to competing, they're doing three, you know, six or six, five or six, you know, consistently. Then we can start talking about, all right, let's look and see what weight makes the most sense for you to reach your goal. Whether it's Team USA, whether it's, you know, qualified for nationals, whether it's qualified for American Opens. And so then that's how we make the determination of where they go.

Plus, you got to look at height too you know you do have to be like if someone is six foot six you probably don't want to be a 94 i mean you're not going to win yeah you probably don't want him to be a weightlifter well unless you're a lifer let's he's the best of all time so that's true if you're that big that fat how is he that fast he is amazing so like so yeah i don't think i think right now i think most people would say you know used to they would say like if you're like above six foot weightlifting is not a good idea but people have shot that in the foot now yeah totally morgan is six one you know um ian Morgan is 6'1". Ian Wilson, whose records Morgan is slowly chopping down,

he was 6'1 or 2", or even taller. Wes Barnett, two-time Olympian, he was 6'2". Somebody like Morgan right now, or even, oh, man, the kid that just cleaned double body weight for triple. I'm losing my mind. Ryan. Yeah, Ryan Grimson. Those guys, you're just having them eat everything that's in sight right now, aren't you?

I'm trying to, yeah. Ryan is actually like, we got to make sure he's eating wisely because he's still, we're going to stay at 67 and still he stops PRing. He literally has PR'd every single meet of his entire life but one. And so, we'll stay there. It's a good rhythm. Stay there. He totaled 290 in training

which would put him... Right now, if he'd have been at that at the beginning of the quad, he would be battling for the Olympics. Because the 290 is what Alex Lee has got a really good shot battling for the Olympics. And he's, you know, because the 290 is what, what's his name? Alex Lee has got a really good shot at the Olympics, and his total is 290.

And so now Ryan is matching that, and he's 17. So, like, his next squad is going to be interesting. I think Ryan and Morgan are going to have – I think they'll actually not even have trouble, but that's a bold statement. I probably shouldn't say that, but it's just real. But so, like, my point being, Ryan is, like, is being pretty wise with his eating.

Morgan is just like, bro, you need to eat, you know, like. And so he's gaining, though. Now he's sitting right at that 96 marker, which is where we want. But I want him to get up to 100, and then we might make the decision to go 102, which is he needs to get there as soon as possible and then 109 is where i hope to make the olympics next squad so does you think that the postponing it a year actually helps are they planning on going 2021 2023 or is it gonna be four years after that? It'll be 2021, 2024. I would imagine. But no, it did not help America

because a lot of the countries who had gotten popped are now going to be allowed to compete. And so this decision has been... I'm curious to see how it affects America, but definitely it's going to be harder now for people to make it because you've got these countries who were banned are going to be able to compete now, which is insane because we all know the whole point was you don't

deserve to go to this Olympics because you're cheating. And so now because of, you know, a virus, these dirty athletes are going to be able to go to the Olympics, which is – I think it's bad because, like, if they go there and, you know, they pop again because, you know, if you've done it once, you'll probably do it again, it's going to ruin our sport. But that's a whole other – that's another podcast. So, but, like, I will say this, nutrition.

Morgan and Ryan, like, when the young kids come to me, they're like, I cannot gain weight. I eat everything in sight. That's when the basal metabolic rate comes in handy. It's like, I can say, no, bro, this is your equation. If you eat above this on a consistent basis, you will gain weight. Scientifically, you can't gain weight.

And so then I make them track it. And then inevitably, they're not above that. And so you're like, don't tell me. You ate a lot once yesterday. And so you thought that that was some big thing. You got to eat a lot, a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

And kind of going back to what I was saying earlier, when people come to you and they say like, oh, I eat all the time. And you go, you don't really know what a lot is. And we've covered this on past episodes of like, I think it was called how to get jacked nutrition, like nutrition for gaining mass but um yeah people that think they eat a lot have never been around somebody that is building very very metabolically expensive tissues like muscles and is really eating a lot. What they're eating is a bunch of junk food and they don't have a lot of muscle. And that junk food seems like a lot,

but they're not filling their body with any nutrients. They're not having their body sit there and tell them, like, hey, you're not hungry. You don't need to eat right now. What their body is telling them is, you're putting a ton of calories into your mouth and it's filled with shit. So you need to eat more because you have to go find some sort of nourishment versus just calories.

Right. And that's the mental breakdown I think that most people don't understand. When we say go eat a lot, we're talking about putting 225 grams of protein in your mouth every day. Yeah, not Oreos. Yeah, not Oreos. not oreos and it may calorically be the same and if you wanted to play the calories in calories out game yes you can lose weight doing that the reason that system breaks down so much is that you don't have the nourishment and your body is going to tell you you're going to be fighting the fact that you are constantly

hungry all day long um and doug it really goes back to what you were saying at the beginning, that you want to silo the quality, the quantity, and the timing all the time because it seems easier to silo one of them. But when you silo them, the whole system kind of breaks down because your body's telling you it needs something that you're not giving it. Yeah, they're all equally important you know equally important but quantity and quality are are pretty close to equally important for different reasons like you as you said before like if you fluctuate your calories you you can you can make changes in your body composition if that's your only goal but if you're doing it on shitty calories, then I think your long-term health will suffer. Whereas if you're eating high-quality food

all the time, I think you'll, assuming you're not totally malnourished, you're just not eating enough and you're just getting smaller and smaller and smaller, I think you will be healthy eating high-quality food all the time. but it doesn't guarantee that you're going to have the body composition that you want, the amount of muscle mass that you want. You'll probably be lean. I think that's, that's fair to say you'd be lean, but sometimes it's tough to get bigger and stronger just eating high quality food. So there is a place for caloric density for people that, uh, they can't seem to put on weight. At some point you just need to, you know, get a, get a blender and just fill it with coconut oil and peanut

butter and whatever else you can that just has a massive amount of calories in it just to get your numbers up to the point where you're actually putting on weight each week. I think a big part of it, though, is most people that struggle to put on weight, it's not necessarily that they can't eat more food all the time. It's that they just don't have enough good food available and prepared when they're hungry. Every time you get hungry, you've got to go into the kitchen and you have to make a meal from scratch. It's just an uphill battle six times a day. You just don't have time for that. It consumes your whole life.

You spend your whole day cooking and then eating and then cleaning and then cooking and then eating and then cleaning. It's much better to have a twice-a-week meal prep strategy where you've got your crockpot going and you have two trays in the oven. You've got two big pans cooking food, and you just make a massive amount of food that you can eat for two or three days. That way every time you're hungry, you just walk in your kitchen, grab your Tupperware out of, out of, out of the fridge that's been pre-portioned and you just sit down and eat it. Yeah.

Um, we haven't really talked about it, but I think that there's, when most people say they want to lose weight, the idea of being at maintenance calorie and just doing a big body recomp is almost an easier process than thinking about being in a caloric deficit for so long that you need to sit there and worry about eating less and less and less. And if you stay at maintenance calories and do it the right way, and you're

getting one gram of protein per pound of body weight, and you're eating an appropriate amount of carbs, your body will continue to build muscle because you're feeding it the right thing. And because muscle tissue is so expensive, and because it takes so much more metabolically to keep that muscle tissue and get stronger at the same time, you're going to lose the body fat without forcing yourself to be in this really gnarly, unfortunate thing where you're like cutting 200 calories every two weeks or, you know, depending upon kind of where you're at or what your goals are. But I think if most people that are struggling with their body fat right now were to stay at maintenance calories,

work on some sort of body recomp where you're, you're just training and trying to get stronger while eating at a maintenance level, you will burn the body fat just because of the amount of increased you know energy expenditure training the the new muscle the fact that your body has to repair itself consistently you're just going to up that caloric need and or the caloric demand but you're not overeating you're not feeding your body those additional calories just stay right at maintenance and and you're going to be able to get to the the body that you are are looking to to get to while having the energy to do the workouts you need to do the recomp to me is the one that is

just unsexy but is the best option of finding where maintenance is and being there for three months like that's the really hard part. I think for people is really understanding the longevity of like, okay, I'm supposed to eat 2,800 calories. How do I do that every day for three months and see what your body looks like at the end? Because for the most part, if you're squatting, deadlifting, pressing, pulling, and eating it a maintenance, your body is going to find that homeostasis of what it's supposed to look like. And guess what? Your abs are going to show up sooner or later. There's just no way around it.

Totally agree. Coach Travis Bash. Go to mashleet.com, Instagram, Mashleet Performance, and Twitter at at Mash Elite. I got to get those two the same. I really got to. That was a bad decision. Travis Mash and Mash Elite.

Twitter. Yeah. You could do that. I'll do it. Does somebody own Mash Elite? No. No. Yeah.

It's my name. I don't care. Doug Larson. You bet. Find me on Instagram Instagram at Douglas E. Larson I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner we're Barbell Shrugged at Barbell underscore Shrugged come hang out with us the nutrition bundle is live

buy one nutrition program you're going to get four programs for free which is pretty awesome save 75% at Barbell Shrugged dot com forward slash nutrition bundle we've got shredded nutrition to help you lose some body fat nutrition for weightlifters to get you super jacked and not put on excess body fat faction foods to create the system's habits for lifelong for longevity and uh make it nutritional part of your life and then two programs brought uh the brand new e-mom aesthetics that mr douglas

e larson just wrote 20 minute workouts body part splits get you super jacked and not a lot of time and he's doing it at home right now which is really cool and then i love it yeah it's my favorite new program so stoked on it there it is look at that i wrote i wrote it for me and now it's available for the world that That's the beauty, right? Now everybody wants to be in your garage with you. Maybe they'll babysit too. That'd be fun. We'll write the babysit program.

Move to Memphis, babysit. That's the program. Friends, we'll see you guys next week. That's a wrap, friends. Make sure you get over to barbellstruck.com. We've got five programs. Buy one, get four free. 75% off of the retail price of 385 dollars that's a big saving 97 bucks marked

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I will see you guys then.