Barbell Shrugged - How to Have Elite Strength For Your Entire Life w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #621

Episode Date: December 22, 2021

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What are the best training percentages for staying injury free How to maintain muscle late into life How neurological adaptations play a roll in lifelong strength Why staying strong is easier than getting strong The perfect training plan for lifelong strength   Connect with our guests:   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

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I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larsen, Coach Travis Smash. We've already been talking for an hour today. Hanging out, drinking way too much coffee. We are an hour of pre-show preparing you to talk about how you can stay really, really strong. World-class strength for your entire life. Maybe not in the later 20 years from 80 to 100, but on next week's show, we have Ed Cohen on, and he is likely one of the strongest humans that's ever walked on this planet. And one of the coolest parts about the show and what we want to talk about today is how long he trained for to

become the best in the world and then stayed the best in the world setting like literally only breaking his own records for 20 something straight years insane it was almost 30 years wasn't it that he that he remained world champion i think it was like 25 so you could call it 30 you know yeah somewhere in there um and and he only was competing against himself for most of those years after you said he set the first record then it was just he just kept beating himself from last year no there wasn't a time where he had to be somebody i know yeah yeah it was like 22 and then it was uh 15 years talking about him what was that relationship like like how long were you guys like like neck and neck there like where you were did your career

was shorter than his like he had this like 20 25 year like epically long career like just insane longevity your career was much shorter but you, but you guys were right there together for a while, like the top two, right? For about two or three years. It was like – well, 2003 to 2006. You know, 2004, I beat his all-time world record. I broke it again in 2005, but I didn't beat him doing it. So then we competed against each other at the Mountaineer Cup,

which is like his place. You know, basically, he was the center of attention at this thing. It was USPF, so it's his federation he loved. I went there, and he beat me, but it was like, it came down to the final deadlift. So he was competing. I promise you that. But he beat me.

But it was the most fun ever. That competition is my favorite. How much, is he older than you? Barely, you know, maybe five years. I feel like kudos to you. When I think trash Matt,

Travis mash, I feel like you're way younger than him. Oh, good. Do you hear that? You're tuning in buddy. Um, well,

the thing that, uh, and we, for about five minutes of the one hour long pre-show we we just had um talking about the the auto regulation and like him training himself and really the number of times that he talks about feel and like of course he has a training program mapped out in his brain to get to specific numbers and he's working from this is where i'd like to be and working backwards um for for however many months he has until he competes and breaks his own world record again but

um i got the vibe that so much of what he was doing was really just being made up on the fly based on how he was feeling it was like he had a template but at any point in time it was just pick the weight that feels right for the day pick the number of reps that feel right for the day pick the the amount of volume that feels right for the week um it i almost was frustrated because it was like there has to be more you have to be doing more there has to be more to it but i also feel like it's it's it's in a way like if somebody were to ask me what my training program looks like i'd be like well i just feel it out every day clearly we're we're different levels of strength with different goals. But there is something to that auto-regulation side of like,

how strict do people need to be in following a specific training program when, you know, if you look at it over a 25-year period where that's how long I've been in the gym now, that's how long I've been training, you're 35 plus years it's like how how strict do people need to be when some people that are the best in the world say hey you just got to go in and kind of feel it out and find the right movement find the right stance just find find a way to set your core that feels right so your back's strong before you go into a squat that's a really tricky conversation when when most people are just like looking for this super rigid super strict training program that's going to solve all their problems there's no such thing this is an outline a training program is an outline and like you should be able to pivot at any moment if you

go in and it's you know your bar is moving quickly and you're feeling good there's no pain you know maybe you want to push it a little bit however if you go in uh and you're not feeling it and you're swimming slowly your joints are aching and you're set to do like 80 for three sets of five it's a time to pivot and say i'm gonna go 75 or if it's real bad like um brian man he would tell you at that point, stop everything you're doing, do some bodybuilding and go home. By bodybuilding, he would say, like, you know, go to the leg press, sit three by 10, some leg curls and leg extensions, and go home.

And that will help to recuperation because that will, like, spark the inner system to give you a hormonal release, like testosterone, you know, IGF-1 and all that. And they'll help you recover and get better. But that's it, man. That's the genetic trait. I swear it is. If you come in my gym, just so happens the best guy in the gym is Ryan. And that guy at 19 years old has more discipline than I ever did in my entire life. He will miss once in a blue moon. Once in a blue moon, like two weeks ago,

he was trying to clean 182 kilos. So he was so close. So he was doing something extraordinary. You're talking about a world record. So he tried that three times. But that's a once in a blue moon. But normally you never see him miss. I can't instill, not just athletes, anybody. If you can leave one in the tank every day of your life,

you can lift forever and keep getting better. I believe. That was the same way he jerked the other day. Is that right? He jerked 190 for 18. Oh, 190. Yeah, which is well over the world record. So what we're trying to do is like it works really well for him to jerk it, 418. Oh, 190. I got you. Yeah, which is well over the world record. So,

what we're trying to do is like, it works really well for him to, you jerk it, you clean it, and then you clean and jerk it. You know,

you have the confidence. He's really close. Like, we, I truly believe he'll, he'll at least, I know he'll have it

on the bar at the world championships this year. He's going to be trying a world record. So, you know, we're excited.

What's your general view on how often elite weightlifters should miss lifts? Once a month at most. I feel like never if you can. If you could go an entire 12-20 weeks and not miss, it would be better for you.

Because it just compounds fatigue. When you're in a state, these guys are college. They're going to school. They're stressed out in class. So when you start those mists, a mist clean, I think, is the hardest thing you can do in the gym on your body, just from my experience. It would just kill me, cleans wood.

This is probably not the best idea. I actually love that. When was the last time you missed a lift because you were really trying to push it? Do you still get there? Well, I mean, now that I'm not competing anymore, it's basically barely ever because in my current state of training with jiu-jitsu as my focus

and just having healthy joints and feeling good is my my main concern um you know i don't really do a lot of like you know 90 95 100 um cleans i'm not trying to hit prs there like most of the time it's no you know it's submaximal weight it's like you know 70 80 percent at the most and i'm just trying to do like fast clean crisp powerful reps and then then most of my heavy lifts is more powerlifting and then bodybuilding type stuff and conditioning and whatever else. So yeah, I rarely miss lifts these days. But even back when I was competing, like back in graduate school, like 2006, 2007, 2008, that time period where I was actually trying to be the best I could at weightlifting, I rarely missed lifts. I felt like missing lifts was practicing doing it wrong. I only wanted to do it right.

And then I always felt like my Olympic lifts were a good enough percentage of my front squat and whatever else, where if I always noticed if my deadlift, my front squat went up, then my Olympic weightlifting went up too. Technique was very consistent. I just needed to straight up be stronger, and then I could snatch clean and jerk more weight. Yeah, I actually missed all the time. But I knew when to stop when timing and rhythm was off.

That was always my indicator of when I needed to stop. I was never the guy that went to be at like 95% and miss like forward and realize that like, it just, I like jumped with my back and then think I'm gonna go fix this problem with 95% of the weight on the bar. It's like, as soon as the form, the rhythm and the timing immediately,

like it just didn't click in the right way. That was the end of the day. But I had no problem missing. In fact, the day that I set the best snatch of my life, 245, I think I missed it like 12 times, like leading up to actually making it on the 13th try. But my timing was like perfect on all of them. It was always just something was off in the catch or I missed it behind me or something along those lines. But I felt confident always going up to the bar because I was always able to get the bar to the right spot in my hip

and everything felt good. It was just there was like some little thing that wasn't getting the bar to where I needed it to be to catch it. And then it hit. And I was like, ah, genius. I'm so smart. I feel like such a savage. But rhythm and timing were always the indicators for me on like game over for the day.

Move on. I would agree with half of what you said. I'm impressed that you said rhythm and timing because it's something that we talk about all the time because I believe rhythm and timing to be the differentiator between the great ones and the not so great is that because you know some people like ryan literally look like they're dancing in a little way so rhythmical you know then other people are just like pulling and praying they have no rhythm no time they spend too much time at the top everyone that just heard you said pull and pray definitely was thinking about snatch and clean

jerk. My bad. I could have done better words. Oh, we made a joke. The missing 12 times lead one, it was to make you inconsistent

in lifting. If it takes you 12 times, then really that lift will never happen because you only get three shots, period. So we really do want, like Doug said,

we would rather, you know, play where we, you know, now have a two miss rule in the gym, period. Like you miss twice,

it's crap. You know, unless once in a blue moon, I can give them one more green light. So, but like, normally, I don't want you taking any of that because I just want consistency.

All of that, I would not recommend anyone to do. The rhythm though, that was smart. Yeah, but it felt good, so I didn't mind keep going. I actually specifically remember just being super annoyed because it was like there every single time but i would anytime people would miss that i was like specifically coaching it's like if you miss twice you're done but i would always notice that people miss or most people miss because of the rhythm and timing and it's not i think they're not strong enough for the most part but you can see like if it's a clean and jerk they just there's something weird in their dip that's like the immediate like your core is just shot from the amount of volume i've already put into it like

you're just getting forward you're never going to get to a place where like you've got like heavy weight on the bar and you dip forward miss the bar forward and then think on the next one that you're going to have a better setup coming out of the clean. There's just some pieces where you go, look, dude, day's over. We're going to move on. And snatch, because it's such an athletic move,

in a way, it's easier because it's on the lift. And coming off the floor, that deadlift setup type position is typically a little stronger than doing a jerk. That was the only reason.

In most cases, I would say, hey, let's just move on. I've watched plenty of great lifters do what you said. Really, what you did is not... It's not something I would consider dumb. I'm just considering probably suboptimal. I watched John North do that play, and he was very consistent.

In the meets, at least when I coached him, he was very consistent. He was always five or six, six or six. So he's very consistent. But on average, especially when kids are younger, like until they're older, I would definitely say, you know, if you could stick to like, you should have like a 90, 70% make to miss, you know, you're going to make 90% of your list just to be used to it. You can't just never, ever, ever miss.

You definitely need to miss on occasion because you need, you need to push yourself and need to like try things you, you haven't actually accomplished before. How, how the hell are you ever going to pr like you have to make the attempt at some point right yeah i'm with you i'm with you travis like once if i missed it i go okay maybe i'll try another time depending on how i feel but then then if it's two it's like okay let's back it down just take off 10 hit some you know fast singles at 90 or whatever it is and you know go get stronger and try another day right Right. If I look back at my career, and I believe this, if I would have had,

and I'm not trying to turn this into a velocity conversation, but if I had, you know, velocity, I feel like I could have competed a whole lot longer. Because for some reason, like, if I set a velocity, and I say this is my minimum, like I won't go below. It's the weirdest thing. Why can't I just be honest with myself without the velocity? But for some reason, if I say I won't go below.35, I won't do it.

And if I hit one rep at, say,.33, I will stop. And it's just like automatic. But if I had that, I'd be like like now that i have it i feel like now i can lift and by the way i've been able to train at least a couple times a week every week so far this semester so better than last semester but still got to get more organized but you know i do that and i said it and you know it just works so well for me i think in our gym you know in our room with our weightlifters it has been magic it's just being able to say you know don't go below this especially with people who cannot

be honest with themselves we have several athletes that i'm just like damn it i mean you've got to stop missing this is not helping you no matter what you think like this is not good but like so you put them on velocity and it just it ends it's like for some reason it stops that and like it's really helped a lot of people we just got a brand new person we are the pdm games by the way coming up um which is a big deal it's like the big you know in the west of the hemisphere it's like the olympics but we've got three of the 10 athletes and they're all from my university program so it's pretty exciting damn yo how many how many of those flex units do you have in your gym you have like five or six of them and so people are using them constantly or

you have four of them certain people so like we have four uh those in one gym where we have five different units and um so 10 people each session can use it because you know you get two or sometimes even three going on the same platform. So, you know, that's the key. You can't have everybody with their own bar, but, you know, but it's easy to pair people up. And what I do is just, you know, the brand new people, they don't, you know, they don't need it.

They're just learning like the basics, but, you know, people like Ryan and Morgan and, you know, our top athletes, they're definitely, you know people like you know ryan and morgan and uh you know our top athletes they're definitely you know using it it's just it's just it's really helping to correct a lot of mistakes that we've made in the past yeah so is that like they use it they use it every day for all snatches cleaning jerks squats etc or is it like a once in a while thing every day no every single day every single day every single day it's recorded. We use it for snatch, clean, jerk, squats, any kind of squats, any kind of pull, deadlift, snatch pull, clean pull,

and then even bench press for our powerlifting. We only have, you know, we have three now, powerlifters. So any of the main movements, we use it. And I'm not against using it, even though I'm like, I'm starting to think I'm going to use it for everything, like Rose, everything, just to keep people from compounding fatigue with doing dumb things. You know, I got a room filled with young boys. Like, their brains are literally not fully developed.

And so, like, they have no way of discerning, you know, risk. And so this helps it. And, you know, what we've all seen, Ryan. I promise that by doing this auto-regulation, especially by using velocity and by just trusting the system, that's the difference. That's why he's killed it in this last year. He's gone from a good junior to the best in the whole country, senior, everybody. So it's all a tribute to that one thing. But if I'm an older guy using it you can lift a whole

lot longer without risk of injury just like you know it just it just helps in so many ways it makes it more fun you know you can turn 70 percent though if you do say 70 for five by three that's a very easy workout but when you put a velocity on it and you're saying you got to go at an x velocity changes the game so now 70 for three is like you're going all out yeah because you can coast through that you can easily do 70 for three and purposely just kind of cruise through that at velocity it's a new ball game yeah i i another thing that caught my attention and i think it plays into a lot of what you're talking about mash is like when he was saying that he very rarely kind of like left that 80 to 85% range and just focusing on moving it as fast as possible for whatever the total number of him and he was like nodding his head like when galpin's in the background nodding i feel like we're like we like we touched on some piece of science that he

wishes everybody knew that ed found out like and on his own which is like the secret sauce to actually getting really strong is just varying your intensity and volume inside 80 to 85 percent and then as some sort of meat gets closer or for whatever reason you can go test and play outside those ranges but a lot of the strength development that you're going to have and what you need to maintain strength throughout your life is really done in these like percentages that aren't that sexy it's a place that you can move really well with relatively high load and get a lot of volume to to just practice movements and and build muscle are you guys when when you're writing program for the kids are you are you kind of like in that range for most of of the the time yeah oh

absolutely you probably if you looked at like average intensity i would bet it's 83 percent um well i mean i can look it all obviously depends on you know the athlete you're talking about but you know if you look at what prillip has said you know years ago obviously if you really want to get strong 90 above is where it's at but we all know you can't stay there, obviously, if you really want to get strong, 90% above is where it's at. But we all know you can't stay there very long because if you're at 90% above all the time, injury follows. And so you can stay, live in that 80% to 85% range for a long time. And if you're, especially if you're doing what Ed said, and you're really, you know, looking at compensatory acceleration or AKA pushing it as fast as you can the entire time, then you can live in that range and get a whole lot stronger and take way less stress on your joints. So then you can live 25 years. I wanted to know where Doug was at on like how often is he failing? I can only think of one rep that I've failed in a very long time because my body just like naturally –

I wasn't even aware of it until we talked to him. And then I realized I started doing some numbers of like what my like best guess on what a max would be like, and realize that like the weights that I lift almost every single week are right in that range for about like three to five reps, like getting 20 to 30 total reps a week or like in, in the big lifts and then whatever accessories, but like that, that range just feels really good. And then I had one of my monster friends come over and I was able to front lifts and then whatever accessories but like that that range just feels really good and then i had one of my monster friends come over and i was able to front squat 315 for a double still

made me feel so awesome i felt like the strongest human in the world i failed third one that was the one rep that i missed in like the last year um and it was only because he was doing it for five and i felt like i had to try but I feel like that that that like range and that level of intensity it's really hard to fail it's just about focusing on really good movement and you're going to make the weights like you you really shouldn't going back to like what you're talking about failing like if things get so sloppy you, you're wasting your time. You're just – it's not worth it. But you should, even at 85%, no matter how dead tired you are, if you really focus, you should be able to make that rep.

Whatever you're trying to get to, you're very rarely going to get to the end and feel like you need to dump the bar. If you miss 85%, then you should go stop what you're doing and go home and rest i mean like you're you're you know you're overtrained you're at risk of injury but you know one thing i can say let me give you some anecdotal evidence is like we saw like you know ryan in his life and leading up to those two big ones he just did he squatted over 500 for the first time now he weighs 148 pounds so he did you, you know, so he upped it. He upped his PR, I think about 10 kilograms,

a little bit over 10 kilograms, which is 22 pounds. Some of you guys might be saying, you know, that happens a lot, but not at 148 pounds and not when your main goal is snatch and clean jerk. And here's the kicker. We did not go heavy ever until we maxed. All he did would work up to somewhere between 80, at the most 88%, and then he would drop down and do speed sets. Because we found that weakness, we did that force velocity, and we found that between 55% and 65%, he was not as fast as he should be. So that's where we lived for the entire, I think it was about 13 weeks, that's the time it was.

And by only going, I bet he averaged intensity, it was like 70% averaged. And the dude increased his PR on his squat by 10 kilograms, 22 pounds, and went on to destroy everybody in the country and everybody on this side of the world. So definitely, you don't have to always go heavy to see results and if you're super smart you can go light and get stronger which is yeah i feel like you've talked to him more what does that actually look like that

was like one of the things that was really hard to get out of him when when people are just talking about go by i feel you go yeah but there has to be some sort of like goal for the day or like a rough average of like trying to hit 8 to 10 for a four-week period at a specific weight or like varying the intensity, you know, getting closer to 85 or stepping outside that for a little bit. Do you know what those blocks look like on a more programmed side? I would love to hear that because he kind of like shied away from it and not that he was like trying to hide it but he didn't really get into like oh i spent four weeks

doing the exact same thing then i spent another four bumping the intensity but still going 10 every single day or i remember his training cycle by heart like he would he would pick the number that he wanted to hit you Normally, his goal was to set a 20 to 30 pound PR, which is a very good goal, but if you only competed once or twice a year, it's definitely

not out of this world, which is another reason why he was able to get better for years. If you get 20 to 30 pounds for 25 years, do that math. Then what he would do is just back it up every week. He would like his final week would be 30 pounds, 20 to 30 pounds less than that. And then the week before that, 20 to 30 pounds, 20 to 30 pounds all the way. And then, you know,

when it was a number he considered it was tens, he wrote tens. Normally he was like three to four weeks of tens to eights. Then he would go to fives was where is where he lived the majority of his time. It was like four to six weeks of fives, and then like two to three weeks of triples and doubles. He never did a single in the gym. His last every day would be like a heavy double, something he intended on opening it.

That was it. It was super basic, which is what I did forever. Then I got better, but I just didn't get better as fast as I would like. So then I went more advanced routes, which did work quicker and did get me to the top faster than other people. But it's also probably eventually what led to my demise. I should have, when I got to the top, backed down and started doing what he was doing again, but I didn't. I wanted to keep, you know, my brain wasn't working, so, yeah.

You're loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, definitely was quicker getting stronger the way I did it, but, you know, quicker's not always better, is it? Well, it's also interesting, you know, you have, like, this window. He stopped competing. You guys both stopped competing. When did you you stop 2007 was my last how old were you uh i was 34 yeah he he i want to say he was like 35 or something like that when he stopped right

yeah or like you know he did a few little meets you know after that but you know for the most part i think between 35 and 40 he stopped you know yeah what's super cool about uh talking to him is like you don't have to look too too hard like there's like a there should be like a uh like a silhouette of like ed cohen neck because i think you you would need like a full bear hug to wrap that dude's neck up he's so thick yes still so thick and how i would imagine he could probably still throw six seven hundred pounds on a squat rack and or on a squat bar and just sit down and stand up and go felt pretty good i definitely think that if you looked at the two of us that he had the best genetics i feel like though, though, that I did – you know, I do believe I outworked him

because I know when he started, when he was like 18, he was already strong. And so when I was 18, I was strong, but I wasn't winning world championships right out of the gate like he was. It just took me a lot of – 19, he was fucking jacked. Jacked, right. Like super athletic at 19. He was –

I was a wide receiver playing that football. Nothing like that. I do believe I worked harder. I do believe some of my training protocols were probably a little bit more advanced, allowing me to finally catch it. I wish I would have been smart enough

at that point. I hope everyone listening, rarely are people trying to be world champions, but even if get to like a goal at that point if you'd be wise back down and just can't go on cruise control or you'll get weaker but you know be very wise like you did spend six months just doing bodybuilding and then you know if you want to go heavy do that for you know a couple 12 week cycles and stop you know so that would be a way to do it forever i feel like you could do that forever you know yeah i it's interesting i i feel like we all end up having kind of like a very similar conversation about just like how to maintain

strength for what we consider to be a very very long time like if you were to write down everything you do to keep your strength yeah the numbers are going to be much higher but on a percentage basis we all kind of like land likely in the same same range total volume on a weekly basis for the same rough rep ranges throughout the week and there may be some higher times and lower times and more conditioning focused stuff but like for the most part we're likely going to be really in that like 75 to 85 percent and just trying to feel good because yes once you have that muscle mass and once you've like put the time in it's really just about keeping it as long as you can like there isn't a there isn't like a it's not that you don't want to get stronger, but the reality of how hard it is to build muscle at 35-plus years old when you just don't have all that good juju, plus just the general intensity of trying to climb to the top of the hill with a barbell, like you're not fighting for, uh, recognition in a way when you're

35, you've already, you've already bred, you've already done, done the thing that nature wants you to do. And then it's like, you kind of look at you go, I don't think I need to squat 400 plus pounds today. What I need to do is just stay strong forever so I can look good and still get things done. Um, and in order to do that, there's like a pretty specific amount of stuff that needs to get done. You need to do some big lifts and you need to do them for 20 to 30 reps a week at, you know, 75 to 85% and move really, really well. I think that that is one of the things.

And it was Squat University that brought this up on the show of like, you really can cut down on the amount of time you're training by just doing the big things significantly better. You don't have to do five assistance exercises. If you can just front squat better, just get better front squatting you don't have to do everything else you don't have to do you could you could fix all the imbalances you could do all that stuff but for the most part like just do the big thing

get in get some volume feel feel heavy weights and and you could just keep and slowly grow everything that you have going on you know what I want to give you guys the coolest workout that I've done in a very long time. It's something that I feel I can sustain. What I started doing like five weeks ago is I worked up to 185 kilos on front squat. So it's like 407. And so I did it. I measured on the way up. I measured 80% of that, how fast was that. I did that one, measured that velocity. And then I backed down and did 80% of that for five. And then I backed down to 60% of that and did two triples for speed. And now all I do, I never, ever go above that.

So some people might think that, oh, it's still heavy. It's not because, you know, I can still front squat 500 pounds so it's really not heavy you know for me but like every single week I try to go faster and like here's all I do I look at my 80% I'm like if I'm like you know a lot slower I totally back down and I do though but if it's like normal or higher I go that for the 185 I look at the speed and try to beat it I back down to that same triple I mean that same five rep try to beat it sometimes I and then I decided I'm either going to add a rep to that one or add a set I back down to the speed

I try to beat that speed and then I either try to add a rep or add a set and that's all I do and I do it for front squatting, for benching, for standing press, and for deadlift. It's the simplest thing. And I could do this forever. It's the fun. Yeah. I don't ever have to get – you know, sometimes at my age,

because I'm always thinking about going heavy, it freaks me out. It takes me an entire day to get my mind where it needs to be to front squat 500 pounds. And I don't have time for that shit. No. I don't have time for that in my life anymore but i can do 185 anytime you know like yeah i can stop studying get up and go do that but like so that's that's something you guys can all sustain and like do it forever i think yeah and you i think that that's like the the coolest part about training right now is like sometimes I don't – I went to a CrossFit competition this weekend, by the way. That was fucking radical.

Did you do it? No way. Are you on crack? Those crazy-ass people, they were shooting guns. What? That is what – that is real life. That is real life. CrossFit Brave ran a CrossFit competition. And one of the events was high intensity.

Try and hit this target with a BB gun. I was like, we have, we have, I'm not saying anything bad, but I'm not. CrossFit Pacific Beach from 2010 through 2016 was not doing go run around the block and shoot the gun.

That was beyond my insurance policy. That's a little crazy, but hey, it's Eastern. Dude, I was super stoked. I hadn't been to a CrossFit competition in so long, and to see all those people in there still getting after it, doing burpees and jumping over the bar. Man, can you believe that? Yeah.

All right, you pay $100 this week week and you lay on the ground and then you jump over the bar as fast as you can i thought it was great it was so i hadn't been i brought adelaide just to go see one and she uh at first was very very scared and then she came around and she would she dug it but it was cool i uh my point was and what triggered that um it it totally alleviates all of the pressure of like what would i like to do for the day like um because many times what i'm trying to do is in the shortest amount of time lift the weights like you're talking about and then have some sort of conditioning element just like automatically brought into it which is really what our like imam aesthetics program is it's like it's not the best conditioning program

it's not the best hypertrophy program it's not the best like performance program but yo if you got half an hour you're gonna get like 90 of all you need for all three of those buckets all at once. And it is absolute. I structure everything I do off of that now. I'm only doing straight sets if for some reason I've got a friend over and I just have an hour. But even when people come to play, we just set it up back and forth where we just hang out and take a little bit longer breaks. But get your heart rate elevated

lifting some some medium heavy weights and uh and having some fun you accomplish everything you need to do and you don't have to think about it like you said all day long and like have that stress that stress beats you down so bad yeah dude it freaks me out you know especially squatting because like it just takes me so long number one to warm up and like mentally you know it's just i don't have to when i'm in school man i cannot do that it's like causing me more stress that it's and it shouldn't working out should be fun it should be like the opposite but you know because i'm crazy like you know it makes me have to go to somewhere I don't want to go. And if you do want to do it, it's cool to know what has to go into it. Like you have to put together,

like this is one of the coolest parts about that show is like there's very rarely, I think we might be one of the only, I shouldn't say we're the only company because there's many companies that put out like really longterm training programs. But like all of our big training programs they're like six months to a year to a year and a half yeah like it takes that long to like get strong it takes a long time to actually develop all of the things that you need to do to be able to be as strong as you possibly can.

It's a really hard process. It's not like a 30-day thing. In 30 days, you can clearly PR something by just doing the repetitive movement and feeling more comfortable and like grease and groove. Like that's very, very possible. But if you want to actually like really build muscle, it just takes a long time. And you have to go and put in a crazy amount of volume. You have to train for a really long time. You have to eat so damn much, I can't even stand the amount of food I have to think about.

Yeah, no chance. Right. I'm not doing that either. No. It's way, way unhealthy to be eating that much. Yeah. no it's way way unhealthy to be eating that much yeah i mean to your point i feel like uh to your point i feel like it's very very common for people to overestimate how much progress they can make in a short period of time you know four six eight weeks or whatever it is and they tend to radically underestimate how much how much progress they can make if they train very

consistently without being injured for many years on end yeah like it's it's a it's a year long of like getting smashed but at the end of a year you're gonna be better you're gonna be much stronger how about that girl from canada how about that girl from canada that tagged us like every single day in her garage grinding it out finally hit 1200 pounds like pounds. Like LT, CF, MomStrong. I want to say her name. Lauren Tobin. MomStrong. Yeah.

I hope she's listening right now. Yeah, I just saw her the other day. She's going back, putting another year in. On the one-to-one challenge? Yeah, she's doing that whole program again. That program was fun to write. It was just so creative. Like, that was fun.

Especially the way you guys kind of guided, like, what you wanted. It was really fun doing that. It's like, especially the way you guys kind of guided like what you wanted it was really fun doing that it's like especially the way i and they actually start practicing and i started like you know slowly preparing them for the one-time challenge it was fun yeah i i it's super cool when you actually see the people commit to the whole year of it and do it to go through 13 mesos and, and actually do it is a, it's really cool because I mean, she was like maybe 200,

300 pounds off when she started and then ended up hitting like 1220 or something like that. The goal is 1200 pounds and I'm just watching it through Instagram. It was like the coolest thing, but it takes that long. But to put on 300 pounds, like if you said that to somebody, like you're going to be 300 pounds stronger on your super total in 12 months, but you've got to go do all the stuff.

You have to like beat the right way. You've got to go and put the work in. You've got to go do the 10 by three tempo front squats. Thanks a lot, dude. Yeah. That was when I bowed out because I was like, I don't have the time for this. It's a lot, you know, but it's really cool to, you know,

there was a time where people thought you could not do those two together. There's a lot of people who thought that. And then, you know, or then they start thinking, well, you can do it, but you won't get, you won't get better at anything but to see you know people improve five different lifts like that is really or six different lifts yeah split up the jerk is really cool it's like that is like that doing that was like art to me so it was fun yeah super fun um that's about it, fellas. That was a good one. I hope people listen to it.

I know. Think of ways to do this thing for a long time. Well, I think it's so – first off, how rad is it you get to talk to one of the strongest people that's ever walked on the face of the earth? We get to do it every day with you, so I take it for granted. It's still cool to do it every day with you so i take it for granted uh it's still cool to do that ed cohen has like the ed cohen's like life yeah he's he's like the he really is um and then to hear when he like you like tried to break it down and he's like yeah we just kind of like feel it out like dude tell me all the things and he goes no man like literally just showed up for nine straight months set a goal and then just put the work in he tried to help me the thing is he tried to like settle me down because he saw me you know growing up and getting strong so quickly

and being crazy but you know i just where do you think the mindset for that comes from like that's not like if you're there's stages of life right like if you're 25 years old how do you have a mindset of like i'm just gonna go patiently no 25 year old wants anything in a patient manner until you become him i think about that a lot and here's what i believe i mean you have people like uh an Ed Cohn or Jordan De La Cruz or like even a Morgan McCullough and they've been on top from the start and so they're already ahead

of people so they can cruise, they can be very wise. But then that wasn't necessarily the case. Like I was a good athlete and I was stronger than most everybody but then on the national scene I had to work super hard. So then, you know, I didn't even get to that level until I was like 27, 28 years old. So now I'm there.

And then someone's going to say, now chill. I think that's what it was. I was obsessed. I said in 1996, I told my friend, who's now passed away, that I was going to be Ed Cohn's all-time world record. And he was like, that guy said come on be realistic so that his statement to me you don't know and inside my mind was so angry I'm like okay yes I'm it's so like the same guy the night before I broke his world record like this guy trained with me so he knew I was about to break it he came into our room and he said he remembered like Lord knows I remember he came to our room, so he knew I was about to break it. He came into my room and he said – he remembered.

Like Lord knows I remember. But he came into my room and he said, I was wrong, wasn't I? I'm like, you'll find out tomorrow. You bring up a really – I was just about to shut the show down, but until you brought this up now, there's such a mind piece that also came through talking to him of like when you're lifting weights and you just said it like you were angry you were acting out of from like a pissed off place of like trying to prove your worth yeah he doesn't say that at all no he was just trying to figure out how strong you could

get yeah he was already that man he was yeah like how how what do I need to do to see how strong I can get? It's a wildly different framework to enter into the gym. Like you're trying to prove yourself to the world, and he's just trying to figure out how he can get better. Wildly, you're still lifting the same weights, but the frame that you enter the gym every day and the healthy mindset that goes into it, it's leading from a completely different place and i was

totally the angry person yeah i was always always way too intense way trying to prove myself and then pissed off when i found out i wasn't good enough um for for all of the reasons from training to size to genetics to all of the ways. I was just like two and I was good enough. Like, you know, but I, none of that came across and I don't know if it's just because he's older and

wiser now, but like all of the, all of all his entire mindset was just always about like, and what he was saying is like, I just wanted to see if I could get stronger. Just wanted to try to get better. It's like like i feel like i'm much better at that now me too um like just trying to get better at things um versus like being being angry and wishing things were different that's like a very very challenging mindset to overcome. His childhood was way different than mine.

He grew up in a very nice Chicago Catholic house. It was just different, and I did not. To me, it was like my way of changing, rewriting my scenario. Plus, like I said, when you start on top, you can cruise. You can do with that. When you don't, when you start way down here and you intend to get there, once you get there, think about

what it took me to go from way down here to way up there. I had to be crazy to get to there. Once I'm there, how do I shift now to be good to my body. I mean, I just – I guess I just didn't – I mean, I wish I'd had a good coach, but, you know, I didn't.

So – but like now I can coach others. And so like this show, when it comes out, when is this coming? When is Ed Cohen's coming out? Towards the end of the year. It'll probably be December right now. I want all my athletes to watch that, you know, like especially like JC, you big power lifter is incredible and he is very similar

to me. He is insane. His goal is to prove the world. He's the strongest I've ever lived. He is just like me, so I'm trying to prevent what happened to me because he doesn't need to be. He's already strong. He could easily do what Ed Cohn did and cruise his whole life and do things

incredible that I didn't do or Ed Cohn didn't do. I think this boy will do way more than both. So hopefully he'll listen to Ed. Yeah, I'm sure he will listen and go and find something. There's just such a maturity that goes along with that that I – there's no – I shouldn't say there's no way. I was unwilling to listen to anybody that was trying to um talk any sense into me at any point in time um i was gonna i was gonna figure it out on my own

no matter how inefficient that system was um that's that's i i just yeah i don't know why i don't know when uh it it actually probably was like very much leaving the gym and like, uh, becoming the host of this show and like talking to so many people that are like just really at the highest level of their game. And just like, um, you really get knocked down. You walk into a such a developed show like this and like you have to do the self work, but like, um, yeah,

it's super, super cool. Like to, to recognize that like the best path forward is just to try to get better and not, not be like steamrolling your way and like trying to choke people until they, they love you. And it's like, you don't have to be angry.

Just try to get better and be, have a better message and, and work harder. Uh, You don't have to be angry. Just try to get better and be, have a better message and work harder. I think that that's like a really something that many 25 year olds that are trying to lift weights and, and trying to be as strong as they possibly can be. Just that lesson is, is really hard at that stage of life.

Yeah. Too much trying to fight your way to the top of the mountain. Totally. And like, you know, but here's what, here's a good example that I can end on for me. When I broke the world record, I got a call, and it was from an unknown number. It was Larry Pacifico.

I don't know if you guys know who that is, but he was the head coach before there was Ed Cohn. So he was 11-time world champion in that 100-kilogram class, the 220 class. And so I was like, here know, here I – there was a new champion. And he called me out of the blue. And I never have talked to him. I knew – obviously, I knew who he was. Just like, you know, you guys know who Rich Froney is.

So he talks to me. He's like, I just want to tell you I'm impressed I'm with you. I'm proud of him. You give me some advice. He's like, what do you think? What's your next goal? And I just thought of like 2410 or whatever it was. And I was like, I'm going to total 2600. Did I tell you how insane I was? So I was, I just broke in this world record that stood for like 15 years. And then I intended the very next competition to do 2600 and he was like

I remember I can't remember what he said he didn't say be realistic he said be careful you know he's like he's like that's a quick way to end your career quickly yeah like you know I was like I was like I know but you know I don't know when my career is going to end anyway so if it's in me I'm going to do it right now now. And I did the very next one is when I tried and then I got hurt and that was it. So, yeah. That's also the reality of pushing like that is like injury is going to come back and get you. Because you push too hard and you don't do the right things because you're just, you're overreaching every single day trying to prove something and that that that very much is like a nine-month training program when you're in that space you want to pr every single day and just prove it and then post it on instagram so that

people know that you matter and it just doesn't work like that so we didn't have instagram like i had to wait until this point you know to the world's championships yeah I had to do it and I had to wait for powerlifting USA to print it in a magazine so like yeah it was I was insane that was that conversation still I think about that a lot think about who was that guy and what was I thinking like if my athlete told me that like I'd be like dude be careful I would say the same thing like you've lost your mind. Literally, you should have been probably committed at that point. It's a weird balance though because that mindset

gets you to where you're at, but it's not a long-term approach to what the show is about. It's like long-term how to do it forever. It's as fast as you go through, the shorter time span is the year.

That's why I think he's the GOAT. That is why Ed Cohen is the GOAT. It's not necessarily how strong he was. It's 25 years of dominating the sport. To me, I can't even fathom that. So to that, he's the GOAT, and my hat's off to him. Should have listened to that. We're going to have people find you.

Matchlead.com. If you want velocity, go to Genware. Code Mash5. Coach Doug Larson. Coach Doug Larson. I love it. Back on Instagram. We made it back.

We got my personal account back. We got Shrug back. We got it all back. So Doug Larson on Instagram. We have the baddest audience in the whole game. Yes. Yes. Some,

some super rad dude who works for Facebook, who's a fan of the show, hooked it up and helped out. Very good. They're out there. Yeah, dude, Raphael,

you're the man, dude. I appreciate it. Hopefully we didn't just get you in trouble. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are barbell shrugged at barbell underscore shrugged. Get over to Diesel Dad Mentorship. That's where all the busy dads

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into the performance nutrition section programs on the shelf friends we'll see you next week