Barbell Shrugged - How to Lose Fat Without Losing Muscle w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Coach Travis Mash Barbell Shrugged #604

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   Does a calorie deficit mean you have to lose muscle. How does testosterone play in weightless and muscle mass What can you expect from your energy and mood in a caloric deficit What is the most optimal training for keeping muscle when dieting Can you build strength in a caloric deficit?   Anders Varner on Instagram   Doug Larson on Instagram   Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Diesel Dad Mentorship Application: https://bit.ly/DDMentorshipApp   Diesel Dad Training Programs: http://barbellshrugged.com/dieseldad   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   BiOptimizers Probitotics - Save 10% at bioptimizers.com/shrugged   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://prxperformance.com/discount/BBS5OFF Save 5% using the coupon code “BBS5OFF”

Shrug family, this week on Barbell Shrug, we are talking about how you can keep all your muscle mass. Strategies to keep all of your muscle mass while you are cutting weight, losing weight, getting to a healthy body weight. Nobody ever wants to go into a diet and just lose weight. What they want to do is to be losing body fat and keeping as much muscle as possible. And in this episode, we give you the strategies you need, the tips you need to help you keep all the muscle you can while you are losing weight. We also spend a ton of time talking about testosterone. And the reason we are talking about testosterone so much in the last couple episodes is because our Diesel Dad Mentorship Program has been through a bit of a transition.

The first group of people is between 16 and 20 weeks through right now. These are kind of our beta testing people, beta testing the program, making sure everything meets the demands that we expect out of the program, how to build this entire program to meet people where they're at. And we started out as just pure fat loss. And what has really transpired is watching the transformation and realizing that we are doing something significantly deeper than fat loss. We have made a very conscious effort to go in and create an environment in people's lives

where we can balance hormones, specifically testosterone. So if you are somebody that is dealing with a poor mood, lacking motivation, libido that is less than optimal, if you have not been waking up with erections in the morning, if you can't find your sex drive, you've been losing muscle mass, and you have between 20 and 40 pounds to lose, we have come across a very simple study that explains everything that we are doing in the Diesel Dad Mentorship Program in that if you have added four inches to your waistline, you have increased the probability of you having low testosterone levels by 75%. So think about that. For every five pounds you put on, that is a one inch increase in your waistline. By the time you get to 20 to 40 pounds, we're talking about a four to eight inch increase in your waistline and almost guaranteeing that you are suffering from some sort of low testosterone

symptoms. This could be mood. This could be motivation. This could be libido. This could be muscle mass. This could be a whole host of things in which your body is not hormonally operating in a manner that it should. We have taken the Diesel Dad mentorship and fully gone all in on supporting natural testosterone production. What that means is that not only are we giving you personalized nutrition and personalized

workouts, and not only is there a coach there to hold you accountable and to be on text inside the True Coach app, talking to you, helping you transition to a healthier lifestyle, but we're also going to be working with you on supplements specifically for creating the most optimal environment you can to naturally produce testosterone in your body. And the reason this is so important is because when testosterone is not working for you and your body is carrying an extra 20 to 40% of body fat, that 20 or 20 to 40 pounds of body fat, that 20 to 40 pounds is actually turning the testosterone in your body into estrogen. There is an enzyme that is stored in body fat that takes testosterone. It's called aromatase. And that enzyme very quickly starts to work against you

because your body naturally produces testosterone. When that testosterone is then distributed around your body, the aromatase that is stored in your body fat turns that testosterone into estrogen, which literally makes you less manly. Like you need the testosterone, men. Testosterone is the hormone that our bodies love to have. It makes you feel like a winner. It gives you the confidence. It gives you the drive. It gives you the motivation.

It increases your mood. It increases your libido, everything. So if your body is working against you because it is turning testosterone into estrogen and then signaling to your body that it does not, because of the estrogen levels, it does not need to produce more testosterone. Now we start to see this vicious cycle of how 20 pounds so quickly turns into 40 pounds, how four inches on your waist, how an additional four inches on your waistline immediately increases your chances to 75% of having low testosterone symptoms. And then if you double that out to 40 pounds or 60

pounds, you start to see it's nearly impossible to have a healthy lifestyle because your body is unable to balance hormones like testosterone and estrogen and actually get you to a place that you need to be to support what's going on. So what we have done is taken our Diesel Dad Mentorship Program. We have gone all in and really focused on optimizing hormone levels, supporting natural testosterone production, creating an ecosystem that you live in that allows testosterone to flourish in your body, helping you lose 20 to 40 pounds, helping you lose four to eight inches off your waist, give you a libido back.

You're going to have a supplement program that helps create an ecosystem of health that relieves stress, as well as the coaching on nutrition, as well as the coaching on the workouts, as well as the accountability, all of these aspects. And we're also going to provide an at-home testing kit so you can actually get your levels tested and find out where you're at and see some market change by the end of the 16-week program. The important numbers for you to understand that we're guaranteeing in this program is that you're going to lose 20 pounds in 16 weeks. In that 16 weeks, you will also reduce your waistline by four inches. We have proven this countless times with the original group of people that are in the mentorship program.

And we cannot wait to get you on a call. We're taking seven people to kick off the second round of this. And you can head over to dieseldadmentorship.com. Dieseldadmentorship.com. There's a free survey in there just to see where you're at with some of these big points that I've talked about on this intro. And please get in there, fill out the survey. You can talk to one of our coaches. We can hop on a free coaching call just to discuss everything. And we look forward to talking to you. Dieseldadmentorship.com. Before we get into the show today, we're talking about how to maintain muscle mass. We talk about testosterone. But before we do that, we got to talk about our sponsors, Bioptimizers. You know that over 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium and it is the number one mineral to fight stress, fatigue, and sleep issues. Check it out.

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or forward slash shrugged where you can save 20%. Organifi.com forward slash shrugged, save 20% on the green, red, and gold juices. Let's get into the show. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Bass. Today on Barbell Shrug, we are going to talk about how to maintain muscle while you are cutting weight, how to reverse out of that diet, and then what you can expect coming out of that deficit as far as muscle mass and energy. Before we get into the show, though, I want to thank Zach Evanesh, Bert Soren, everybody down at SorenX that made this weekend super cool. We got to go and actually coach people in person and man, I freaking

miss hanging out. It was like everything that comes with being on the podcast at Barbell Shrugged, you forget when you're doing it on Zoom because the world shut down for 18 months. You forget that when you're doing it on Zoom because the world shut down for 18 months. You forget that when you go

and you bring the microphones, you get to interview Pops. And he tells the coolest weightlifting stories of all time. Like before anybody in the... It was like Pops and York Barbell and Louie Simmons were the only people in the world lifting weights

when he started lifting weights. And that dude has more cool stories than anyone. For the record, Pops is Burt Soren's dad, Richard Soren, who started SorenX 40 years ago. Yeah. We have an awesome show coming out with him. Yeah. And then at night, and then Burt took us out on his pontoon boat and we sat out in the

middle of the lake. May have had an adult beverage or two. Bert cooked up some sausages on the boat and just hung out for like five hours in the middle of the lake. I was like, oh, I remember. I remember what the world feels like. Bert is a celebrity nowadays. He's hanging out with some real good time news. Do you want to hear how much of it? He's rogan and jaco and yeah he was a sylvester stallone a couple weeks

ago i saw he goes hunting he's got bow hunting with cameron haynes like he's dude his new pad is so sick on the water this is dope um yeah when bert's next to you i was like we're we did a q a at the end of it and i was talking and I didn't name drop anybody but somebody in the audience knew that I trained with Cena and like interrupted me and like said John Cena's name. And I was like – I was like stumbling on my words of how much I didn't want to name drop because the guy sitting directly to my left is Bert Soren, who's like literally best friends with everyone you want to be best friends with. And I know like one dude that like four years ago was my trading partner was like, no, please don't. Please don't.

I don't want to sound so uncool right now. Yeah. Because Bert would be like, yeah, he's staying in my guest house right now. I know. Oh, yeah. I know that guy and everyone else. It's like, do you know Joe Rogan? right now yeah because bert would be like yeah he's staying in my guest house right now i know oh yeah i know that guy and everyone else like do you know joe rogan yeah i gave him a gym people love bert man i know he's so awesome yeah he is really is so awesome we dude we when we were pulling out um of his dock at his house we it took us like 30 minutes just to get away from his house because people just like circle their boats around his house just to see if he's hanging out

we had to like stop and chat it's like you going into a gym like everybody just wanted to stop and chat with burt right i i saw it you know i think he would tell you though like when we were at that tactical uh the c um the NSCA tactical convention, I couldn't believe how many people knew Barbell Shrug. I had no idea that many tactical people listen to us. And like anyone listening, by the way, just,

that's a really cool, like of all the things I get to do, the fact that we get to influence those people is like the coolest thing. Dude, when they're on deployment, they don't have shit to do. Like they're busy all the're on deployment, they don't have shit to do. They're busy all the time, but they also don't have shit to do.

They like working out. Trying to have some bro time. I've had people tell me that they're literally driving into battle, like toward the battle, and they're listening to Shrugged in their headset. Really? Is that like a distraction when you're at war?

It's fun. Trying to learn about weightlifting in their headset. And it's like, really? Is that like a distraction when you're at war? They're like, it's trying to learn about weightlifting while being shot at. Yeah. Bullets whizzes by my hair. And I'm like, he's a multitasker. You're yelling at the Taliban to chill out. You're trying to hear Doug's point.

No, you guys settle down. I'm trying to hear this. Let me finish. Then we'll fight. Hold on. I'm talking about squatting again. No, I'm asking.

I'm like, is that okay? Like, command is okay with that? They're like, oh, no, we don't tell them that shit. Oh, maybe we should have said that. Yeah, maybe we should have said that. There's a lot of people. But it was really cool, the NSC tactical. Yeah, man, we've got to go to that next year altogether.

I've wanted to go for a long time. It really cool soar next owns it though they were the premier sponsors so yeah yeah i feel like we're in similar fields you know yeah well that's like the dude if you're gonna open an equipment company i mean i have this like prx rack and they're super rad and everybody should go get a prx rack and i got the dopest swing set swing set squat rack on the back and everybody should go to swing session check them out because yeah I'm jealous about those things yeah but dude if you're gonna be like a total badass boss in the equipment world you go play government contract games and then you go play yeah like outfitting big-ass universities. Dude, those gyms, you can get people into the Olympics in Mash Elite in the back room

of a regular fitness center. You don't need all that shit. You don't need it at all. So what do you need? What do you need when you're the college trying to recruit the fastest human in the world? What do you do? What do you need when you're the college trying to recruit the fastest human in the world? What do you do? You bring that guy in.

You show him all the technology. You show him all of the hydraulic drop things and throw things and all the special stuff. Who's going to do all that? I don't know. You walk into Sorenix and they have the sickest gym you've ever seen in your life. I don't even know how to use like 40% of the stuff in there. I didn't even know it existed. And you get in there and they go, holy shit, this thing has hydraulics on it?

What is it? Like a rapper's car? Like how – bouncing tires and stuff? Like what is – how do we even use this to get strong? I swear they should start a YouTube show called Pimp My Rig or Pimp My Weight Room because they do crazy stuff. Yes. Pimp My Rack. They had a rack at the tactical conference.

And people were like – literally everyone there was throwing guesses of how much that rack would be because it had every bell and whistle you could ever dream of plus a lot more. It was crazy. It's insane some of the stuff they have in there. The coolest part, and this is what we have to do next time we go down there, is bring Colton, the videographer, and do just a show with Pops

that's like 10, 30-minute shows where he just walks through the museum because dude if you like go and like look at that stuff it's like here's my dumbbell that's 117 pounds like why is it 117 pounds well because some dude had some concrete and a mold but no idea how much weight went in it there was nothing standardized it was he has this picture in his office um of him at 242 pounds and it is a mean man yeah like a dude that's been laying bricks and slanging concrete all day long and came home pissed off at his boss every day and took it all out on back squats. You don't want to be the back squat. Man.

Him and Louie just had that grind blue collar man shit going on. You just look at him and you're like, God. He probably just used to go into bars and beat the piss out of people just because he could. It just looks like a mean human being. He's also one of the nicest guys. I don't know if he actually beat people just because he could. Sure. Like, it just looks like a mean human being.

He's also one of the nicest guys. I don't know if he actually beat people up, but he's a little mean in this picture. Well, he's probably in that. What did you say when you interviewed that one coach? He talked about the Warriors. The wisdom. He's in the wisdom state, so he's chill now.

He was 24, 242. Bar fight for sure. Throwing the discus around. Yeah. Trying to go to the Olympics. That's 24. I Bar fight for sure. Throwing the discus around. Yeah. Trying to go to the Olympics. That's 24. I fought all the time. Yeah, you don't want to run into Richard Soren with a bad-ass dude on a Friday night. Or Bert.

Bert 6'6". Punching me in the face. No way. That is a well-bred family. I would love to see the mom that just had to deal with that mess. Does Bert have any brothers or sisters? Not that I know of. His story of walking on to University of South Carolina

and not only walking on and making a team, but excelling like he did, is such a great story that every high school kid should hear. Anyway. You should go back and listen to that show. We went like two and a half hours with him show because that was – we went like two and a half hours with him and it was smashed. It was really good. It was two and a half hours of awesomeness.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about lifting some weights while you're losing weight all at the same time. Yeah. The reason I actually wanted to do this show because we are right about 16 weeks into our mentorship program and the first group of like dads are really at this point um pretty much all of them that started at the same time have hit this uh 20 pounds of weight loss uh goal in either the 12 or 13 week period and now we're putting the plants like together

to get them to like a normal amount of calories um and like a so they can go live a normal life and still like reduce body fat like 20 pounds isn't the the end goal for them and we're trying to like explain to them that we have to get them to a normal they can't just be in this brutal deficit for for the rest of their lives. So on their way down, I think one of the big realizations is that they were able to maintain muscle mass and doing it right. And as Doug writes all these plans, this is his world. how do you write a nutrition program and pair it with a training program so that we're able to keep as much muscle mass as possible while eating significantly less calories so that we're able to target just pure body fat and not getting into losing all the muscles that someone may have. Yeah, when people want to lose weight, they don't want to lose weight. They want to lose

body fat. They don't want to end up being a smaller version of their fat cells because they lost a bunch of muscle mass and body fat and they still look the same. They just happen to be lighter. They're skinny fat, the whole thing. Yeah. People want to lose body fat. So they look leaner. You can see the muscles that are there. You can see the definition. They, you know, eventually you get lean enough where you can see like cuts and six pack. And, uh, you know, if you're super, super, super lean, you can see like muscle striations and all that, like bodybuilders. And so as you lose weight,

it's very important to ensure that you have enough protein. We generally say that's a gram rather of protein per pound of lean body mass. So whatever your body weight is, minus your body fat percentage and how much weight that calculates to be. So if I'm 20% body fat and I'm 200 pounds, well, 20% of 200 pounds

is 40. So my lean body mass is 160 because that's how much weight is left. So I need at least a gram of protein per pound of body weight to help me maintain the muscle mass that I have as I lose weight. I also obviously need to be in a caloric deficit where it's possible to lose weight. You can't fight physics. You got to have your calories low enough to actually lose weight. And then you have to be doing some type of strength training, which, again, when you're losing weight, is mostly just a stimulus to help you hang on to the muscle mass you already have. In my opinion, you should pick a goal. And if your goal is fat loss,

then you shouldn't be worried about getting stronger in that moment. Just focus on one thing at a time. Lose body fat. Maintain as much muscle mass as possible. And then once you get lean, if you want to build back up, build some muscle mass, focus on strength, then you can do it when your calories are sufficient enough to support that type of training. Generally, the way I think about it is that when you're losing weight, your training is supporting your diet or your nutrition. And when you're gaining weight, your nutrition is supporting your training. That's how I

think about it. We give guys, this is the Diesel Dad Mentorship, so we're training dads. Presumably, most of these guys are not still competing in things and they just want to be healthy and fit and good, healthy role models for their

kids. We're helping them set the conditions to support natural testosterone production. That's a big issue with guys as they get older is that people tend to have their testosterone levels go down, especially as they get out of shape. They're not sleeping very well. They're putting on body fat. Anders, what's the stat that we were reading the other day? We were looking up scientific research on testosterone and we had that good quote about the four inches. Yeah, it's been really interesting, really focusing on testosterone over the last couple of weeks because the actual quote that you're talking about is that it was done in a Harvard

Health article that we found uh just as we've seen this 20 pounds you start to see like everybody that comes into the program starts out and they're like borderline depressed the guy specifically that is like crushed it more than anybody had a zoom background travis you'll love this he had a zoom background you know those like fake backgrounds yeah that you can put you're like a hologram in your own zoom background dude his zoom background you know those like fake backgrounds yeah that you can put you're like a hologram in your own zoom background dude his zoom background was a jail cell even if you're just joking around that's insane that you would put yourself in jail like that's just like a mindset of like fuck i'm never getting out of this. No chance. Representative of how he feels, for sure. Yeah.

And he has absolutely smashed it. He lost 20 pounds in like 11 weeks. He's in week 12 right now. And went and bought himself a brand new suit. And we found this article from Harvard Health saying that if you add four inches to your waistline, you increase the likelihood of having low testosterone or low testosterone symptoms by 75%. And I went, I bet every single person that we've gotten to this first 20 pounds in their initial 16 weeks has lost four inches off their waistline for sure. So I went and asked all of them. We had

all of them. Every single one of them was like 42 to a 38 and they've got 20 pounds to go or like 38 to 34, 37 to 33. Like it was like clockwork as I was, as I was going through and asking them the exact like reduction in waistline specific um it was really really actually like creepy because the numbers just aligned so well that 20 pounds of fat equals four inches on your waistline and if you're carrying around 20 pounds of extra fat dude you feel like shit like you're walking around with a weight vest on that's not proportioned like a weight vest. A weight vest is way easier to carry than a med ball under your shirt. It's brutal. On top of that, the visceral fat on your organs and all that.

So it was insanely cool to recognize that 20 pounds of fat loss is going to equate, and this is not scientific. This is just anecdotal with the group of people that we're coaching. Don't call Andy Galpin yet. We're not ready for that. Travis Mash is going to be doing the research. I'm actually looking right now. overweight, you likely need to have, you've put on eight inch or 20, 40 pounds of body fat equates to roughly eight inches on your waist. And you're guaranteed it's a, if it's 75% at four inches, it's a hundred percent at eight inches that you suffer from low testosterone. Um, and it's like guaranteed and it is the ramifications of low testosterone. We're going to be digging into a ton on the show over time.

But it's not a thing that you want to be dealing with. It's the mood, the motivation, the lack of muscle mass, the belly fat, the lack of libido, like getting as far as erectile dysfunction. Like we had a kid – we had a guy – I call him a kid. We had a guy – I call him a kid. We had a guy text me yesterday. I'm actually getting a testimonial from him right now that got morning wood for the first time in back-to-back days in over four years. Congratulations, sir. Wake up and get after yourself for a little bit. That's like the biggest win there is.

I know, right? So did the program work? We won the game. We won the game. My dick got hard and stayed hard. Winner. Well, yeah. I mean, just looking at some of the research, you know, and this is a meta-analysis.

I'm looking at it. And, like, I think it might be greater than you're saying. Like, when you – just for obese. And to be considered obese doesn't take a whole lot. Yeah. You're not talking about somebody who has 40 pounds. You know, that's morbidly obese. But just obese, you're 2.4 times more likely to have low testosterone. So that's really

240% increase of having, percentage of increase in having low testosterone. So it's high. Do they run obesity off of BMI alone? Or is it – because the Harvard Health study that I – or article that I read said that waistline was more applicable to testosterone than BMI was to testosterone because BMI does not equate for lean muscle mass as well because waistline is just fat. Is it waistline BMI though? I think BMI is a look at waistline.

Right, Doug? I was immediately going to say talk to Doug. It's just a ratio between your height and your weight basically. Then it comes out to a number. Then they have for each number range. It's from like 25 to 30 is overweight for 30 and above is obese, et cetera. It's like, if they're doing, like, you know, large-scale epidemiology where they're looking at millions of people, you know,

they're doing, like, phone surveys or self-report or whatever it is, it's easy to get big numbers. It's easy to get solid numbers for a large number of people just using height and weight because it's easy to measure. It's like, you've got a million people trying people trying to like measure their body fat percentage and now you get a hassle on your hands so yeah so like population at large it's probably semi-accurate because most people aren't going to be fit and athletic but yeah of course in athletic populations you're like i've been obese before while i've been like you know eight percent body fat so it doesn't

really apply to athletes in the same way. Right. Right. But there's some efficacy there for the population at large. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm looking at a good study right now. Yeah. Well, here's, here's what you guys listening to get out of this is definitely increasing

body fat will be, will increase your chances of low testosterone, like 200% at least. I mean, here's another study saying the exact same thing. And the show that we posted today with Allie, now Weingroff. Oh, yeah. And you can go back and listen to that one called Normalized Boners. Definitely clickbait. Also in her Instagram profile, so not really, but that's what it says. And we talked a lot about boners.

She was talking about how when you get insanely lean like that, that the – like a bodybuilder that's on stage that's basically starved themselves for 13 weeks to get as lean as possible but is also taking exogenous testosterone and a host of other things to keep them somewhat motivated to go to the gym and train and keep as much muscle mass as possible is the opposite. The problem is you very rarely run into somebody that has 3% body fat. The problem is everybody is walking around with 30% body fat and to get them into the underneath 20, you got to lose 20 pounds. Like that's the kicker is like being in a super strict diet may have problems. But nobody is really in that space of being too lean. It's really like everybody on this planet is walking around at 30% and doesn't even know it because it looks so normal. Yeah, here's a really good one. That's going to scare some people out there. on this planet is walking around at 30% and doesn't even know it because it looks so normal. God, here's a really good one that's going to scare some people out there. By simply moving from not obese just into the obese category, it's like the equivalent of advancing that person 10 years in age when it comes to hormone levels. So like, holy cow. You just put 10 years, you took 10 years off age when it comes to hormone levels so like holy cow like you just put 10 years you

took 10 years off your life the minute you go from not obese to obese which doesn't take as much like doug was saying you know basically these things are like doesn't take much to do that so i don't know body mass i feel like a lot of people and ali was talking about this as well as like there's there's like a there's like a process to it right like i feel like many lot of people, and Ali was talking about this as well, is like there's like a process to it, right? Like I feel like many people think, oh, I need TRT. Like I need to go get testosterone right now or the pellets or the creams or whatever it is. But jumping into the deep end with exogenous things without fixing the root of the problem of like just getting to a lean body mass and overcoming like if you're if you have a 75 chance because you need of having low testosterone because you're 20 pounds

overweight well let's just get the weight off and then see where your testosterone levels are because you might have some sort of issue that needs to be handled with a doctor that I'm not qualified to do. Like I'm not a doctor. I'm not a TRT doctor. But what we should do before you go and jump into hanging out with people with lab coats and putting shots or pellets into you is why don't we get you to a regular like body fat percentage? Why don't we get you around 15 percent? Why don't we try to get you lean enough to get to 12% and be able to maintain that? And then if your T levels and you still don't have the energy and you still don't have the

libido and you still aren't able to get it up and you're still not having like all of these signs of normal testosterone, dude, get to a doctor. Get some real labs run. Like figure out what's going on with your blood work. It's not about demonizing exogenous testosterone or TRT or whatever is needed to optimize where you're at or how you want to feel. It's about do the work first. Yes. Get to a body fat percentage that allows you to live a happy life.

And if you're still not happy and everything has been normalized, well, then go to the doctor and check it out. Right. What you're going to be doing, you know, just by looking at this study I'm looking at right now, is like, you know, you have masked the real problem,

which could very well be like sleep. You know, what I'm reading, I'm just glancing, of course, we're on a podcast, but is that sleep is a great place to start. So if you do this exogenous testosterone and you still don't address your sleep apnea issues that you probably have, then you might increase your testosterone, but the things that were going to kill you are still going to be present. So you feel good, but you're still dying.

And so that's not good. So there's a lot of things that need to be handled. Yeah, that you feel good but you know you're still dying and so like that's not good so there's a lot of things that need to be handled yeah that's a good point about sleep apnea like that's that's way more common to people that are overweight than people that aren't overweight and if like if you're waking yourself up every every 10 seconds because you have sleep apnea like you're never going to fall into a deep sleep you're never going to get a good solid REM sleep like your recovery and your energy is going to be fucked and your hormones are probably going to be a disaster. I haven't actually looked at research on sleep apnea and testosterone levels specifically. I'm looking right now.

My hunch is that it has a huge effect on it. It's a huge effect. Your penis will be broken is what I'm saying. If you don't fix your sleep, your penis will still be broken. That episode that Huberman did, it talks a lot about sleep apnea and mouth breathing. And the problem with the sleep apnea, obviously you're like choking yourself, but you're also just not allowing the oxygen to get in, to get into a purely parasympathetic state

and fill your body with the oxygen that you need to get into a deep sleep. So for people that don't have sleep apnea it's it would be the same thing as if like doug is behind you about to put you in a choke hold as soon as you're about to fall asleep and he like chokes you out real quick you're like ah and then he leaves as soon as as soon as you almost fall asleep he's like okay you back. Try to go to sleep again. It doesn't work. You can't get choked out before you're about to hit REM sleep.

And it's your DC. Not only is it the oxygen, it's your DC brainwaves. They're like, they're never getting to the point where they can lower enough to allow these things to happen. So your brain is going to be awake all night long. So therefore, the next day, you're going to feel like you didn't sleep at all, which I get. And would you – dude, how many power lifters are walking around with CPAP machines? All of them. All of them.

Every one of us. You say you're not, you're lying. You should be if you don't because we're all – yeah, because it's. Because every time you get the big necks, it's just coming, man. You're just like, the same thing that's probably that we're doing to our hearts, we're starting off messing our bodies up because we're doing it to our necks. Because as the muscles get bigger, the pathway for the air to get in is smaller. Same thing in the heart. The walls of the heart get thicker so that they can't get as much blood in there.

So every time the heart pumps, you don't get the threshold of blood that you need. So, yeah, we need – power lifters are dying, man, too. Lately, like in the last maybe four weeks, three of my friends are dead. And so, like, if you're a powerlifter out there you need to listen to this show and you don't be a hard head and like do something about it man yeah i i feel like the it's interesting in the powerlifting world too when you start to see the numbers on like just being 20 pounds overweight they it became so cool for so long to get as big as you possibly can like we're all friends with aj roberts when he was competing it's like he was 320 pounds the first time i trained with him he could walk to the end

of the street with a 53 pound kettlebell without just having like near heart attack it was terrifying like the amount of wheezing that would go on when he showed up at my gym and i would put him on a rower for 250 meters it's like dude we gotta slow this thing down you can't just think you're gonna go to the crossfit games when you can't even row 250 meters right now it's just you know i guarantee that you know i bet that he could not get to any crossfit i don't think that you would ever be able to get aj to he might be able to do a local one but the fact of what we've done to our hearts, like that cardiovascular is never going to be there now. And it's like the most alpha male testosterone thing. Like I'm going to put 1,000 pounds on my back, sit down and stand up.

I'm going to do it. I'm going to care so much and bring so much alpha male and so much testosterone to this conversation that I'm willing to have my eyeballs bleed, like literally bleeding eyeballs and noses popping in the middle of the lift. Testosterone in the shitter because you're eating Bob Evans every morning. No doubt. So you're just loaded up with all the gas and there's no base of any health for any of it. You are preaching the truth you know but i mean i think you're preaching not just powers but like i would say nowadays with the fact that you know that we are always being aggravated with social media you have these devices that we can't put down

like it is it is i would say the real pandemic if you want to know the truth is the fact that no one can ever chill out is that because you know we're always getting seeing something someone's saying about us on instagram which who cares but like still we're human we like to we like the attention until it becomes negative like the answer to who cares unfortunately is everybody everybody everybody cares everyone everyone thinks you shouldn't care, but everybody cares. Everybody cares. To rewind the conversation just for a second,

I don't want to throw the whole sport of powerlifting under the bus. We're talking about the super heavies who are trying to be as big as possible all the time

so they can set the biggest world records. But if you're like, if you're a, I don't even know what the powerlifting weight classes are these days, but if you're like

the 189 pound guy or 198 or whatever it is, or you're even like lighter than that and you train super hard four or five days a week and you're you're doing your sled work and and your carries and whatever else on top of you know lifting weights for you know heavy weights for an hour at like maximum intensity then i then i don't i don't think you're gonna have heart trouble like you're talking about in the same way because like you're an athlete you're fucking lifting heavy and you're working hard uh if you're going to have heart trouble like you're talking about in the same way because you're an athlete. You're fucking lifting heavy and you're working hard. If you're trying to stay in your weight class, presumably you're not just smashing 30 burgers from some random fast food joint every day like AJ and his friends used to do.

He told me those stories. So if you're in a lighter weight class, I don't think powerlifting is unhealthy in the same way. If you're trying to be a super heavyweight, just be as absolutely enormous as possible at all times. I would say that. I would definitely say that if you are in a tested federation and you're below 200 pounds, I would say then it's not unhealthy. I would say, though, anything above from 100 kilograms, 220 pounds and up in a non-tested i think you're at risk i think you're doing long-term day i mean i was the world champion and i'm talking about myself right now so not like you stayed the the picture you put up uh like two days ago or whatever

with matt winneger you stayed pretty relatively lean i don't know what you were at your biggest but you were relatively lean yeah yeah i was but the fact what i did to my heart i'm questioning like i know i need to go get this test done and so and look at you know what the walls of my heart and so i feel like a lot of power of the truth i don't think i've done the damage that someone say like a heavyweight has done but i know that damage has been done like this you know the walls of my heart are definitely thicker than they were and so you know so every time my heart beats is way different than when your heart beats you know and there's it's totally different and so i just i just need to go go get it checked out and get it over with but um all you powerlifters right now i wish no one's gonna listen because if you're a 25 year old man and you're getting close to being top of the world

you're not going to change anything no matter what I say. But I do wish you could take a time machine and zoom to 45 and see if you were going to feel the same way. But that's not reality. As with every sport and every training modality, there's a ton of people that do it very well and super healthy. And they're just trying to get their back squat bigger because it's a movement that everybody has control over and whatnot it's when you're trying to compete and go to the next level and see how good you can be in a specific thing that things get crazy and unfortunately many times with lifting weights the thing that people think is going to get them better faster is mass moves mass. So they end up having a bad diet.

They stop doing cardio. They stop doing all the things because they just want to put on so much size because size is going to move the barbell easier. The barbell is going to sit on your back better. Instead of putting on the muscle and doing the work to get stronger and staying in a weight class that matters they just go and get huge they're wrong that's wrong you know i well that's that is a bad idea it is you are 100 right yeah but they are wrong like fat does not do anything it does not you know it does not change in length it doesn't

help any kind of mechanical motion like it just sits there and so it's wrong you know it does not change in length it doesn't help any kind of mechanical motion like it just sits there and it's so it's wrong you know like if you look at weightlifting it's a different mindset you'll see all the best weightlifters always lean you know like so athletic he's so athletic and but the power of the world but you know if you look at the best power lifters of all time none of them are fat it's just that every once in a while there'll be this guy that thinks what you're saying. And they're all the time because I think Westside, that's one of the things I don't agree with them.

The fact of just gain weight at all costs. That's stupid. Like it doesn't help you. It doesn't, you cannot tell me a way that fat can help you. People go, oh, it can aid in mechanical advantage. No, it doesn't. Like where, show me that.

Like it does not. Always the leanest dude in that weight class will normally always be the best powerlifter. I can give you examples. Dan Green, he's ripped. I was ripped. Ed Cohen was ripped. You know, like, Kurt Kowalski, even when he's 275, you can see his abs. So all you guys

getting super fat thinking you're doing something good for the sport, you're wrong. You're just making an excuse to eat your hot dogs. Well, that's also like uh if if you have to weigh 220 it's way better yeah to be a lean 220 than a fat 220 totally but the people on the way up they just want to get big so that they can have the bar rest on their back better. It feels stronger, but they're not going to do the work over the next decade to add 15 pounds of muscle. Yeah, Kurt Kowalski was 275 and he was ripped.

I think the only time I would give them that would be if you're heavyweight. Maybe, you know, like, but even look at Lasha. That dude is, he's not fat. He's just a very big, awesome athlete. And so I feel like still they'd be better off to be calculated in their approach to the weight gain. But just eating like, you know, to go from like 4,000 calories to, you know, 10,000 is retarded. Like, I don't know if I should say this. That's completely incorrect word.

Sorry, I said severe the queer the other day. It's a bad decision. That's a politically incorrect word. That's the queer the other day. It's a bad decision. It's a bad decision. And really, I guess, I think what's happened is I'm super passionate because I've lost so many powerful friends of late. Like, they're dropping like flies. All you guys lifting out there, like you heavyweights. I mean, is it worth it?

I don't really see, you know five five to ten years from right this moment You're gonna be dead think about that when you go and lift your thousand pound squat that nobody gives a crap about you know Like I can say that I did it I get you but yeah kind of getting back to like reversing people out of a diet and and getting them down to a body weight that they need like your your out of a diet and getting them down to a body weight that they need. Your angle on this match is way different because you are working with people that are competing at the highest level. So if somebody were to go into a phase in which they need to make weight and you're

giving them 8 to 13 weeks and they got to cut 12 pounds to make weight and that person loses 5 pounds of muscle in that pursuit they're not going to win how do you guys go about this over the long haul or like what is your system for getting people from to make weight and keep all the muscle so that when they stand on the platform they have the energy they feel great they feel confident in themselves, and they're strong. We take a very calculated approach. We do what Doug said. We normally get as a scientific of a readout as possible of their lean body mass,

how much fat they have, where is that fat. Then we look at their height, and we say, okay, where are you at now? Where do you stack up? Then we think about do they have the body fat to lose down a weight class and still? Because if you're like 30% body fat, I am 100% confident you can drop a weight class and not lose anything. But if you're a very lean man or woman, then you've got to consider if I go down a weight class, I'm probably going to lose some muscle mass. And then you've got to say, was it worth it? Can I get a little bit weaker and still be better?

Like Hunter. She's probably my best example. She started out at the 71-kilo class. We dropped to 64. She set a PR total. We didn't lose anything. Then we had to make the decision, well, 59 is your best chance of making the Olympics. So, and we said, well, you're probably this time going to lose.

Andy Galpin always helps me make these decisions. Him or Lane Norton or both. You know, I've had both with Hunter. Then you had to make the decision, okay, we're going to drop to 59. That's five more kilograms. You're already lean. This is what's going to happen. So those are the decisions.

And you say, can I get a little bit weaker and still be more competitive in this weight class? And in her case, it made sense to do that. Yeah. What's a, what's a little bit of the strategy on reversing them out of that so that they can, uh, I mean, I guess with Ryan recently, you didn't even have time. Does Ryan have to worry about making weight? Uh, well, it's a great question because like you know we've always relied on him being you know pretty much close to that weight and he had to cut a little bit but now it's become a whole different ball game for the first time at the when we were at the arnold i'm sorry not the arnold classic but at the senior nationals and he was his first meet where he might make a world team. When he went to weigh-ins, the dude had lost so much weight that he couldn't even make his words correctly.

Like, I couldn't comprehend exactly what he was saying. I'm like, oh, man. I don't know how he was able to do what he did, which, you know, he PR'd everything and killed all the seniors. But that's when I was like, all right, now we're going to get professional help. So now we've got him with his own registered dietician, make sure we do something a little smarter. But it was the first time. But it was my fault because I wasn't even going to have him drop weight for that meet

until I looked and thought, oh, man, this kid is going to make, based on his training, I'm like, he can make his first senior world team. So it was worth it. So I gave him the option. I'm like, do you want to try this? He did, and he did make it he killed you know killed everybody so um so it was a good decision but then he turned around nine days later he didn't have as much to cut it wasn't as hard on his body instead of brand

new pr nine days later and one of the best lifter at junior pentams so it's just interesting the decisions you have to make you know when to cut when not to cut it's like scientific is is pop you know you want science to to lead you as far as it can go and then there's got to be some somewhat art is always going to be a thing you're always going to have to that's what makes you a really good coach the art of the whole thing yeah yo do you remember enough of the details between how andy approaches it and how lane approaches it to like compare them and tell the pros and cons or how they're the same and how they're different, that type of thing? I don't know that they're different. They're very similar. Both of them are very science-based.

Some people out there have their own views with no scientific support. Those views are always going to give you the latest in the research. So, you know, they're both up on the research, so they're very similar in their approach. You know, Lane is, you know, probably when it comes to nutrition, a little bit deeper because, you know, that was his whole thing was nutrition, whereas Andy is physiology, which, you know, it's a part of it, but there's other things that he's good at too, like, you know, muscle,

hypertrophy, but so, but they've always both given me the same. I just have wanted, you know, make sure if I get both of them saying yes, then I know it's a go. You know, if one person might balk, which they never disagreed so far. Yeah. What is, what's their like timeline in it? Is it, sayyan needs to lose 10 pounds he's already relatively lean or hunter needs to lose 10 pounds to to make the next weight

class like what what is the timeline for like their thing is it reducing it 50 calories a week they're already pretty lean so they're really just trying to do as little as possible to tweak with tweak everything that's going on um with the end point being like we still have to make weight like this is the real life but but doing that like we're gonna cut a thousand calories tomorrow that just sends everything into like a survival mode that doesn't doesn't work well well here's the one here's the one thing that I'm going to throw at them and say this, is that sometimes people do really good. Like Ryan does really good with a water cut.

You know, like he doesn't lose anything. However, there are people that when they do a water cut, it messes them completely up. So in that, I'm really curious, which I wanted to talk to Andy and Lane about this. Like, you know, should you do your research? Because like, you know, if I'd gotten Ryan down earlier, say if I got him to 67.5, you know,

I wonder if he would have lost more than he, you know, I know that you have the risk of electrolyte imbalance, but I feel like for him it makes sense to lose a little bit more water than, say, the hunter. I'm not sure a big water cut is a good idea for her because in the past it's caused some issues. Yeah. There's that individual aspect.

How do you know, other than trial and error who's good at what and so that's what i want to ask them i would love to get them back on our show ask that very question because they're i know i have the data some people do better with water than others so you can't just say everyone shouldn't because a lot of people now are in one camp or the other yeah well the water cuts with the water cuts galpin has got to be uh if not the best in the world yeah he's your top three because he's dealing with guys yeah dehydration and your brain can't be um that's not something you want to mess with right like you get cracked in the head a couple times you don't have water and you're just already in a big deficit that's that's bad news for very uh large reasons not

small ones like oh i got punched in the face like now you have brain damage forever yeah what i what i would say to our people listening is like you do want to lose some weight without losing a lot of muscle, I would definitely not go too far above 200 to 300. By cutting 200 to 300 calories a day would be max. You go above that, you're going to lose a lot of muscle mass. Doug, what are your thoughts on this? because I know you said one gram of protein per lean pounds, right? You said pounds. And so what about Andy and Blaine both lately have said even higher. I think Andy was on this very show where he said maybe go to three.

And that was three to one kilograms. That's probably kilos yeah yeah it's a little so it's a little bit more than you said but not a whole lot now people are saying even higher because you get not only do you get the that you know the the thought is you're going to maintain muscle mass which is what we're talking about the other thought is you're going to get an increased thermic effect what are your thoughts um yeah that's certainly I mean, you do have a higher thermic effect of food with protein than you do with the other two macronutrients, so that's a component of it. If you're at super low calories, higher protein is more satiating, so you're going to feel fuller

on lower calories. That's a piece of it. I also think it's very hard to get enough protein, so if you overshoot the amount you tell someone to get, I want you to get 300 grams, then you really want them to get 200 grams and maybe they'll end up actually getting over 200 grams. So there's kind of a psychological play there in some cases. We're really just talking about losing weight. You don't need to have that higher protein when you're gaining weight. You have enough calories and carbohydrates that are kind of protein sparing as you're gaining weight. So you don't need as much protein when you're building muscle mass, which is counterintuitive.

You generally need a little bit more protein when you're at reduced calories so you can spare the muscle mass that you already have. Dr. Right. Dr. When people add extra, like Bill Campbell talks about this, when people add extra protein to their diet, even at a higher caloric load, they don't put on body fat. And so you're not at risk of putting on body fat if you're adding pure protein numbers. Yeah, no one's ever gotten fat off protein, you know? Yeah, if you're eating extra ribeyes and it's 80% of the calories come from fat, well, yeah, you can mess up your fat loss goals in that way.

But if you're just adding lots of lean protein, you're keeping your other macronutrients where they should be, I don't see any downside, and I see a lot of potential upside. Yeah. Obviously, people don't come to me for fat loss very often, but when they do, when it's an athlete, one of the things i've done with some success is like you know going a little bit higher than others might but that's

i don't do that i just i get all my stuff from either lane or andy but based on the research that they're looking at too i do read their research to know that they know what they're talking about but they do yeah no, but they do. I know. Those two are for sure. Yeah. Those two are the killers. Well, Lane, depending upon kind of where you're at, does he do all of his wife's stuff?

There was just a big show out in Vegas. Holly? Yeah. Does he do her? I don't know. They're both very good at it. Yeah, she's super smart herself, I imagine. But having a coach has got to be – Accountability.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I don't think you could be – maybe there's a bodybuilder somewhere out there that's getting down to 3%, doing it on their own, just eating egg whites and vegetables and every – like one white potato before they train. God bless them. But if you can do that, you got a stronger brain than everyone else in the world. There's just no way a regular human being can do that in their life. I mean it's possible but good lord, eating chicken breast and egg whites, vegetables and like two potatoes a day is just a rough go at getting down to weight.

I would imagine she has to have somebody that's holding her accountable and like that she can talk to about it. Like I need a carbohydrate. Help me. Yeah. I had – I tell you when I peaked as an athlete, when I finally went out and found my own nutritionist and like – I had the best deal. She would cook my meals, too. So I coached her entirely.

But then she coached me in nutrition. It was the sweetest deal. Like, and she still paid me to coach her and did my nutrition and made my meals and bought the food for me. It was the greatest deal I've ever had. Shout out, Cheryl. But I was the leanest I've ever been. When I met my wife, I had this lady as my nutritionist, and I was ripped. So sorry, Drew, bait and switch.

But if you're an athlete out there, if you want that little bit of edge, dude, spend some money and get somebody who knows what you're talking about. And get someone to hold you accountable, really. She would hold me accountable because what I did is I just stopped buying any food. And all I had was what she gave me. So I told myself I'm either going to eat what she gives me or I'll starve. And so it worked perfectly. That's like the – you know what's so funny? It's like there's like that age-old question like, what would you do if you had all the money in the world?

That's it. It's like really a question of like, what are your highest values that you would like to pursue? That would be it. And I feel like everyone's like, I want to travel. Yeah, until traveling sucks. Until you're like, you haven't been filming. Yeah.

Right? But anytime I think about it, I'm like, what would I like to do if I had all – I would hire a chef that makes insanely good food. Yes. That is perfectly macroed so that I never have to worry about it ever again. I never have to think about food. I have not. This is what I want to weigh, and I want it to be delicious and I never ever want you to put an extra anything

in there that could be an oil that it goes against these exact macros just make it perfect and make it delicious three to four times a day yeah see maybe six mil increments you know like the amount that I think about

food and the amount of times that I eat today and how important it is I just want to outsource all the cooking because the cooking part is the part that I suck at. It's not the can I eat to a specific caloric amount. I know how to do all that. The problem is I do it in like this is eight ounces of chicken. Put it in there. This is one potato. Put it in there.

This is a handful of nuts. Done. There's no meals meals there's no like recipe it's just plug and play yeah bland yeah bland food yes so you know i would say for our people listening to like two things i would encourage you to do if you want to like lose some body fat and not lose your muscle, definitely look at going a little bit high on the protein like we said. Then I would start working on your sleep right away. If you did those two things, I feel like it would be life-changing

for you. Step one, go try that. You'll thank me. Absolutely. Coach Travis Mash, where can people find you? Mashlead.com this is a great I think all you guys listening

I don't know if any of my old powerlifting buddies are listening or new powerlifters but I hope you listen to the show and get your health

you don't have to be unhealthy to be a great powerlifter matter of fact if you look at the way I did it or Ed Cohen did it you can be super healthy

and be the best in the world so consider that don't listen to these fatties who are not winning. I won. So probably listen to us.

Yeah, dude. Can we get Ed Cohen on? Yeah. Talk to that dude. Hit him up. Hit him up. I want to hang out. I want to know how that dude stayed jacked his whole life.

I'm doing it right now. Like insanely jacked. Doug Larson. You bet. My Instagram. Douglas C. Larson. Friends, we are – I just want to get like a programming note in here on kind of like what is going to be going on with the show. For the last 18 months, we've been putting out between two and four shows a week, which is an insane schedule, which becomes a lot easier when you're locked in your house for 18 months. But now that the world is opening up a little bit, we are going to be back on the road.

MASH's weightlifting schedule has gotten a lot busier and school is starting. Doug and I are really deep into making sure that Diesel Dad mentorship and everybody that is working with us right now in these very high-touch programs is having success in the program. And as we build it out, it's insanely time-consuming and requires just a ton of thought and a ton of energy going into the program. So going forward, we're going to be putting out a show on Wednesdays.

The Monday show is going to be combined into the Wednesday shows and we are going to more or less be going with a guest interview one week and week two is going to be a pure coaching show just like this show and alternating between the two. The Diesel Dad podcast is going to be coming back. It's just going to be a little bit less frequent because as we put two shows out a week, it turns into a lot of work to do the research and to get everything out. So if there's fewer shows, the quality of those shows and the content in those shows is going to be much higher because we've got the time and space to be able to think and do the research that we need to do to prep for these shows. So you will see a lot less frequency in your feed. However, ideally, the quality of

those shows and the content of those shows is going to be much more specific to you and getting you to where you want to be. So if you start to see a little bit less of us in the top of the feed, that is why. And we have a really cool thing that's taking an insane amount of time. We're going to be launching at 2200 Walmarts. And we have become the fitness and nutrition advisors for a supplement company that I'm not 100% allowed to talk about right now on all the details. But as we do that, we're going to be launching one of the largest transformation contests in 2022 that probably has ever existed on this planet. So I can't wait to get all that information out. And that's why you're going to be seeing a little bit fewer, slightly fewer podcasts on the frequency side, but the content and the quality of each of those,

the little space, with a little extra space and time, is going to be much higher. So I'm Anders Varner, at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at barbell underscore shrug. Make sure you get over to dieseldadmentorship.com. We might as well tell you we're going to be doing a lot more on testosterone as well. But get over to DieselDadMentorship.com. That's where the application is. You can hop on a call with us and make sure you are the right fit for our program for busy dads.

I want to lose between 20 to 40 pounds by supporting natural testosterone growth without drugs, doctors, and destructive diets. And friends, starting in November, we're going to be in 2,200 Walmarts across the nation. So, even John Cena was like, damn, bro, you fucking smashed it. I texted him yesterday, fellas. I said, 2020, 12 stores. 2021, 2,200 stores.

And he went, damn, bro, never give up. That's the John Seely motto. So if you get into a Walmart and you don't see my face on a box in the performance nutrition section, get in your car, drive to the next closest Walmart because we'll be in that one, in the performance nutrition, in the pharmacy. Friends, we'll see you guys next week