Barbell Shrugged - How to Program Percentages, Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE), and Reps in Reserve (RIR) w/ Anders Varner, Doug Larson, and Travis Mash - Barbell Shrugged #507

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

In this Episode of Barbell Shrugged:   What is RIR, RPE, and Percentages? How do you use these concepts to write a strength program? What are the benefits and drawbacks of each? What are effective reps and how do you understand max effort? Tactics and methods for optimizing sub-maximal effort?   Anders Varner on Instagram Doug Larson on Instagram Coach Travis Mash on Instagram   ————————————————   Training Programs to Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/34zcGVw   Nutrition Programs to Lose Fat and Build Muscle: https://bit.ly/3eiW8FF   Nutrition and Training Bundles to Save 67%: https://bit.ly/2yaxQxa   Please Support Our Sponsors   Legion Athletics Whey Protein, Creatine, and Pre-Workout - Save 20% using code “SHRUGGED”   Fittogether - Fitness ONLY Social Media App   Organifi - Save 20% using code: “Shrugged” at organifi.com/shrugged   www.masszymes.com/shruggedfree  - for FREE bottle of BiOptimizers Masszymes   Garage Gym Equipment and Accessories: https://bit.ly/3b6GZFj Save 5% using the coupon code “Shrugged”

Today's episode of Barbell Shrug, we are teaching you how to optimize submaximal loads, programming, reps and reserve, percentage work, and RPE, rate of perceived exertion. That way, you know how to not just have to max out every single day of your life. And before we get rolling, I want to thank our sponsors over at Organifi, the green, the red, and the gold, the juices that keep all the micronutrients in your system so your digestive health is happy, your immune system's happy, all of the systems inside your body, keeping them happy. You know why you need those? Vitamin and minerals. And guess what? Ashwagandha. Let me tell you about Ashwagandha. Reduces stress. Guess who's got stress? Me. Guess who else has stress? You. Guess what ashwagandha

helps? Reduce that stress. And it comes in the first thing that you should do every single morning, which is take that green drink. Take the green drink, my friends. That is where the sweet spot is and why we have partnered with Organifi for the last three years, because you love them, I love them, they love us. And that's what you would call a beautiful relationship. And you can save 20% by going over to Organifi.com forward slash shrugged. That is where you save 20%. And guess what, my friends? I haven't opened the box yet, but I just got home and there's a box waiting for me loaded

with Organifi. And you know why I'm extra super special excited about this one? Because it's pumpkin spice season. And pumpkin spice season means that the gold has pumpkin spice in it. And when the gold has pumpkin spice, your boy is happy. Because that is by far my favorite pumpkin spice or my favorite of all of the Organifi. They got this chocolate one. That's like third. Let's go. Pumpkin spice number one, green. Green is the year round number one,

then red, then gold, then chocolate. Those are the five that i've tried i don't even make it to chocolate that much chocolate's just not for me i'm not a chocolate guy even chocolate ice cream but check it out i take the green every single day no matter what i'm taking the pumpkin spice like it's a cheat meal in the middle of the fall autumn is here friends and when i'm getting ash waganda and i'm getting vitamins and iandha, and I'm getting vitamins, and I'm getting minerals, and I'm getting all the micronutrients that I need in two scoops a day, trust me, if it tastes that delicious like it does with the pumpkin spice, I'm definitely enjoying my life a lot more and feeling a lot healthier because of it.

And we're getting back on the road a little bit these days and the go packs make my life so good so you can get over try the pumpkin spice get the green greens like mandatory pumpkin spice is like a little extra a little extra zip to life and you can save 20 at organifi.com forward slash shrugged i also want to thank our friends over at bioptimizers did you know that there is one phase of sleep that almost everyone fails to get enough of? And this one phase of sleep is responsible for most of your body's daily rejuvenation repair, controlling hunger and weight loss, hormones, boosting energy, and so much more. I'm talking about deep sleep. And if you don't get enough, you'll probably always struggle with cravings, slow metabolism, premature aging, and even worse

conditions. Why don't most people get enough of this one most important phase of sleep? A big reason is magnesium deficiency because over 80% of the population is deficient in magnesium. Magnesium increases GABA, which encourages relaxation on a cellular level, which is critical for sleep. Magnesium also plays a key role in regulating your body's stress response system. Those with magnesium deficiency usually have higher anxiety and stress levels, which negatively impacts sleep as well. Now, before you go out and buy a magnesium supplement, it's important to understand that most magnesium products out there are either synthetic or they only have one to two forms of magnesium. When the reality is your body needs

all seven forms of this essential sleep mineral that is why i recommend product my friends at bioptimizers created called magnesium breakthrough this is thank taking magnesium breakthrough before bed there's a lot of words over there taking magnesium breakthrough before bed helps you relax and wake up refreshed and energized. The deep sleep benefits are really noticeable. And I also love that they offer free shipping on select orders. And a 365-day money-back guarantee on all their products. Plus, they have a customer satisfaction rating of 99.3%, which is very impressive. You can get 10% off Magnesium Breakthrough, the best aid I know, for boosting deep sleep at Bioptimizers.com forward slash shrug.

B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S dot com forward slash shrug. Bioptimizers.com forward slash shrug. B-I-O-P-T-I-M-I-Z-E-R-S.com forward slash shrug. Bioptimizers.com forward slash shrug. Be sure to use the code shrug, S-H-R-U-G-G-E-D for 10% off. And we also are kicking off the body weight challenge over at Fit Together. 30 days, posting your body weight. Fit Together is giving away cash. Cash money prizes. Cash money records. Remember cash money records? This is like cash money records, but fitness. Fit Together is the brand new fitness social media app that is a ton of fun to be a part of because right now, you know there's an election going on? You know there's a pandemic going on? I don't really know much about that. You know why? Because I hang out

on Fit Together and not Facebook. Fit Together is fitness only. That means if you're going for a hike, you want to tell the world about it. Beautiful. And there's a supportive, cool community of people that like fitness and don't want to get hung up on all the drama and all the craziness that's going on on the social medias right now. That's why it's the perfect time for you to get into your app store right now. Download Fit Together. F-I-T-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R. F-I-T-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R.

Fit Together. And starting October 5th, for the next 30 days after that, that would be October 5th to November 5th, November 4th, you can update your status with the bodyweight movement of the day. Whatever it is you want to do. You want to do a push-up, put it on video, check in, use the hashtag bodyweightchallenge. Killer. At the end of 30 days, we're going to be picking some winners. And we're giving away the cold, hard cash. And Barbell Shrug is going to be giving away a free bundle of up to $500 value. And that's really cool. So you're going to get a bunch of programs, like four or

five programs, nutrition and mobility, which is going to be radical. So get over to Fit Together, F-I-T-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R, Fit Together. And we are going to have a big giveaway starting October 5th. So get in there now, find the Barbell Shrug group, and find me at Anders Varner. Friends, we are going to get into the show right now. Welcome to Barbell Shrug. I'm Anders Varner, Doug Larson, Coach Travis Mash. Today on Barbell Shrug, we're going to be talking about how to use percentages, reps in reserve, and RPE in your training so that you can write an

effective strength program for your goals and really make sense of kind of these three big concepts and how they fit into understanding where you're at and how to not have to go to failure and be able to actually structure your training so that you're not getting totally burned out every single day. Because not every day can be maxed out Friday. Doug Larson, when you sit down to write a program, tell me just kind of some high-level stuff when you're thinking about, you know, we can't really have this conversation without talking about failure and kind of effective reps, but what's, what's a little bit of the goal and

structuring? Um, I don't want to say percentage work because that's only one of the three, but structuring sub maximal efforts in order to get to the strength goals that you want out of a program. Yeah, really. It's all, it all comes down to the intent of the program. So what are you designing the program for? What are the outcomes and goals that you're trying to achieve by doing the program? And then you can take that rationale and apply it to each individual exercise. Like a lot of people will have structured programs where it's kind of like they go from stereotypically like speed to power to strength to volume or assistance work to energy systems development and conditioning, cardio, etc, toward the end. And usually you have some somewhat of

that structure in your programming, even if you like throw out some of those categories, like you don't do any speed work, you just do power and, and, and strength, and then you do some assistance work, but no conditioning that might be common for a weight lifter as an example so it really depends on what the intent is for each individual exercise if you're training for speed power and and to a slightly lesser degree strength then you don't want to be fatigued at all like you want to run you don't run short sprints because you're you're running full speed you want to do you know singles and doubles on snatches where you're where you're not if you're training for for speed and power where you're moving quickly if you are if you're always going you know to to failure and you have short rest intervals then

you you're not going to be explosive or moving quickly because you're fatigued so just it depends depends what your goal is if your goal is hypertrophy and volume, then you need to go closer to actual muscular failure because your muscles need that stimulus to produce growth. And if you're training for muscular endurance, then you definitely need to be going closer to failure because you need that metabolite buildup along the way in order to, you know, if you're doing higher rep ranges and you're an OCR athlete or an MMA fighter or whatever it is, like you need, you need muscular

endurance at a different level than if you're just a weightlifter. So it's all about what you're trying to do. Yeah. Mash are of those three, is there something that like, how do you kind of categorize percentage work, RPE and, and reps and reserve and, and just structuring that. I kind of have my thoughts on how to think about those, but I'd love to know just when you're working with your guys, like how do you start to have that conversation with them? Well, I mean, you can make, you know, the intent that you're trying to get out of percentages,

you can use RPE and RIR to do the exact same thing. You know, it's just a way of like, what happens is that, I think we might've talked a bit about it when we talked about velocity, but on any given day, you know, anybody's 1RM can go up or down 15%, which is a 30% swing, which is a lot. And so, but with RPE and RIR, you can like kind of guarantee that they're in the intent you want. Because like, for example, if on some, you know, you say you want them to do 85%, but let's say that they're 15% low that day.

So that becomes, now you're having them do all this volume at 90, 95%. And like, now you're going to break them down because the body can't handle the same volume or 95%. Can you go ahead and define those two acronyms for people that don't know what those mean? Yeah, RPE is rate of perceived exertion. They actually took that from like it was an endurance sport, athletes. And then, you know, it was – I think the guy – it was the dude that, I'm totally blanking on his name. Well, I'll think of it in a minute. But there's a guy in powerlifting that kind of brought it to the strength world.

I know it. But anyway, so like. It's basically how hard you feel like you're working. Yeah. Yeah. So like 10, if you're at a 10 RP, you're maxed out on that rep range. So if I said 5RM at a 10 RP, it means you're doing a legit five RM. You can't do any more weight or any more reps.

But if I say nine RPE, that means you went to a five RM. You could have done one more rep and stop. And that's where you end it. And then it just goes down from there. Eight is two, seven is three, six, you know, and so forth. And then I started using nine point five too. So nine point five RPE means I could have, I couldn't have done another rep, but I might've added five or 10 more pounds. So it's,

it's just a way to like online for all the people listening to do any kind of online stuff. It's a way of me explaining exactly the intent of the day. Yeah. So yeah. Reps and reserve is, is, is very similar. Oh, reps and reserves. It means that I could have done, it's very similar. And so like, I really use the, I only use the RIR when I say like a five plus meaning as many reps as possible, but then I'm saying, but leave, you know, two RIR, you still,

you could have done two more and it's a way of like, cause you know, because what you said was hyperglyphic, you want to go as close as you can without you know necessarily failure and so it just makes sure that you know my athletes are like are doing the volume that they need to do to create hypertrophy without going too far plus if you go too far a lot there's some studies out there that would say that if you go to absolute failure that becomes a a lot of type one fiber development. So you got to be careful there. Yeah.

The conversation for me always starts with that kind of like understanding where someone's at in their training age and that do you really understand what failure is? And do you understand how to like really push the limits? Like a nine on the RPE scale is a really, really challenging number to get to. I mean, going to a nine and a half, like you're talking about in which you may have been able to add five or 10

more pounds to the bar, but you also have to talk about the effective reps in that each of the movements, like we run into this with CrossFitters a lot where it's like, you could do five more deadlifts, but those last five deadlifts and whatever metcon you're doing just look like trash so what is the goal of the workout that you're putting together is it just to finish as fast as possible because then we don't then everything's

max effort and and trying to just go as hard as possible but if the goal is hypertrophy i think that that's really where this this conversation starts to get interesting in that you have to maintain perfect form using the musculature that you're supposed to be using, understand how many reps you can get to before your form really starts to break down and you lose the entire stimulus of what you're trying to get out of the exercise. And then going on, not just your best effort of the best day because as you said there's like a 30 swing and what could be your max effort for the day but now taking that and using some sort of auto regulation to say okay well there now there's there's two reps left or i feel like i'm at an rpe of eight and a half to nine. And being able to actually have that conversation of this,

this is the last one before my form really starts to break down. And, and you should, should not be going for more. One thing that I am actually, that I'm really interested in, in doing percentage work gets really weird, because there's like a specific number that people know that they have to hit based off of the best they've ever been or a training max and if if they're building up to like a heavy double for the day right you can't really have like two reps in reserve because that's your max for the day which is a very common thing and the rpe is it's basically a 10 like you want people going to the end um so how do you convey to people what exactly you want out of some sort of max four day in because the percentage is basically 100 the it gets really really confusing i think when you if hypertrophy and crossfit are if hypertrophy

is the goal specifically where you have this range from 8 to 15 reps or 8 to 20 reps and it's like okay be somewhere in the 14 to 17 range which now is i don't know some rpe of like nine call it before things start to break down it you have a larger scale in which you can or like a larger ramp to be able to put those numbers and those those um terms to use but if your goal is power powerlifting or Olympic lifting, it's not like RPE2. Well, I only got two reps in me. We got to build something heavy. So having that conversation, how do you fit in a max per day? Or is there a specific angle that you take in the percentage work to say, based on how you feel today, something heavy, or getting people to understand that the goal is to go really heavy today, but not near failure. How do you get that

into programs to have the conversation of like, the RPE may be a nine and a half, but making sure people are moving perfectly? Well, oh, i see what you're saying so you know like so to be able to get across that you want them to go hard but like if if i just add that in there if form breaks down at any in weightlifting if the form breaks down at any point yeah at that moment because probably there's cns issues happening yeah and that means you're way over trained but like we know with the you know with a crossfitter it would be the same thing like Because probably there's CNS issues happening. Yeah. And that means you're way over-trained. But, like, you know, with a CrossFitter, it would be the same thing. Because I would imagine with CrossFit, even high reps,

there's a certain movement you're still after. Even when they're doing the touch-and-go stuff. Yeah. Like, if you watch Froney, his movement is still beautiful. Perfect. Even when he's touching and going. So you would still say that at all times if there's ever any kind of like technical breakdown because then if you

especially in crossfit if you're doing that million reps yeah or whatever then you're really you know when you're talking about neural adaptations you're just like solidifying in your nervous system hey you should always have bad form if that's what they're doing for the majority of time. So definitely that would always be there. But you could also like in weightlifting, there's a lot, when I say go to the 2RM for the day, like there might be more to the story. Like, you know, am I going to, is it max effort?

Because then I'm saying go to, let's go until we can. But what if I have intent for the day that I still want muscular endurance or I want neural adaptations? Then I would say 2RM, 9RPE, or 8RPE. And here's why I would go 2RM, 8RPE, because I intend on them doing 10 more doubles at a lower percentage. So I'm figuring out where they're at for the day. So 2RM, 8RP, I'm getting close to it.

Then I'm going to do 10 more doubles at negative 10%. So because I'm wanting neural adaptations, it's not about max effort. It's not about muscular endurance. It's about 10 perfect sets of two. So like that's a little ball game did that make sense absolutely that's one of my favorite structures building up to up to a rep max as you just said with an rp attached to it and then doing down sets i feel like especially like we do a lot of online programming of course and we're not always there in person to like watch the person do their

thing and i feel like that that works very well for people that don't have someone sitting there, you know, giving them assistance. Right, right. You know, one of the studies I plan on doing is this, is I want to take percentage work with RPE with velocity. I want to see, because the only thing I question with RPE, here's the other side of this, is that it's so subjective.

So for some people, like, you know, I get someone like Ryan, he's very intelligent with his body, believe it or not for an 18 year old boy. I've never seen anything like it. So like, he knows when he's when he's on and when he's not like, you rarely see him miss, he might miss, you know, twice in a 12 week block. So like, so that he, so I can trust him. I know he knows his RPE.

However, there's other people who are, like, you know, they're way crazy. And so, like, you know, they're just on the app of, I'm going to max out all the time. Well, 9-RPE to them is, like, truly a max, double. You know, they don't even understand that. So that's the subjective part of it that keeps me, like, you know, I do it, but there's a part of it that keeps me like you know i do it there's a part of me that's like yeah do these people really understand their body well enough to yeah nine

from an eight rpe so yeah i think that that really is the the most important part of somebody that has actually trained long enough to get to just to know what failure actually looks like or feels like and be able to move well enough. And it's almost, you know, this, this conversation barely even needs to be to kick in until you've had a couple of years of training. Cause I, I feel like I still will just never be able to get away from the first couple of years of just sitting there and adding five pounds to the bar and finding out how long you can do that for because then you actually have a failure point. And if you do that well, you're going to be doing it for a couple years. There's no reason to not that you're going

to fail for the first couple years of training, just adding five to 10 pounds, doing your back squat, assuming that you start with a decent enough ramp and your body's adapting and you're eating um but i i've never actually followed a program that had that stuff built in because i went for my own training i went so much on feel of like that exact formula of you know build to a heavy something and then back it down hit some really good sets move really well and then back it down, hit some really good sets, move really well, and then go into whatever skill or hypertrophy training. And I feel like most of this conversation, for the weightlifting side of things that build to a heavy is the most effective way to just get really, to get strong or to get big weights in people's hands, make sure they're moving really well, and then backing it down from there into some sort of

volume work is a great way. When you say 10%, is that a pretty standard thing across the board? Or like, do you go five? Is it 15? Is there some some has there ever been any tests on kind of like an optimal way or is that just auto-regulated with people that are um pretty advanced lifters well you know the the louisiana you know the it was it was kendrick's coach um oh my gosh he was at lsu shreveport you know you remember what's that guy's name doug um i'm terrible with names anyway he's the one who's his coach or teammate or what yeah it was his coach um um i totally do know that person i'll tell you when i remember his name yeah but l is you know it's the lsu shreveport and they would do you know they work up to let's say a 5RM back squat Kyle Pierce

Kyle Pierce yes awesome guy and uh he's a great guy by the way he works with a lot of people from was it Guana uh see Ghana yeah he works with a lot of athletes in Ghana it's crazy like he's like put a lot of money into it in time but um so he would do a negative five percent drop set and then a negative 10 and but i normally just do negative 10 for two sets the negative five is like it's like after you've done a true rep max because he doesn't say rpe he's like five rep max so when you do a true 5rm a negative five percent is not much help you know it's like you're just so dead but and then sometimes i'll do a negative 15 but here's my intent i'm going to do like three sets of five, and on the last one, five plus. So at 15%, I'm guaranteeing I can get a little bit more than five on that.

So it just depends on what is the end goal of the down sets. Do you typically go with like a range of reps, kind of like I was talking about earlier saying, Hey, I want you to be from eight to 15 here, but not really caring as long as we're in some sort of hypertrophy rep range and then just get what you can get with perfect form. I'll do that for sure. Like, you know, like we'll do say a 10 RM and I'll drop it to 15%. And then, you know, normally what I do is I keep that for the very last set because if they're going, you know,

they're not going to get a whole lot of quality reps like you say. If you say, you know, do the very next one, they're only going to get a 10 RM and then one more set. If I say 10 RM, negative 10 or 15% on the last one, go all out, then you can. Because, you know, it was like, what was it, the cast that was on our show is that his name uh yeah yeah that dude's brilliant he was talking about you know

putting those you know those rep right you know that amrap in there you know strategically like once versus like every set because you know so like i definitely liked what he said about that and even like even for strength athletes you know a lot of people say never go to failure because it's slow twitch. Not when 95% of my reps are not failure. You're not going to get, oh,

I went to failure once. Yeah, that last one. Yep. Oh, your whole body just switched. But strategically,

because we do need, you do need, um, I've heard of it in weightlifting for sure. Like, all you got to do is look who do need, you do need a burgeoning weightlifting for sure. Like, all you got to do is look who's winning. You know, you tell me he doesn't do a burgeoning, whatever. Just smashing weights in every way possible. Every great weightlifter is Jack, at least from the waist down.

Guaranteed exact, yeah. What type of people, like personality types have you noticed that do well with each of those terms because i think that that also plays into the conversation and how people respond like athletes that get real you know some athletes you write them the program and if they veer off of that by 1%, they're either super depressed or they're super happy. And that's just not the way the body works. And I think that that's one space in which the RPE or RIR concepts far outweigh the benefits of using percentage work um but have you noticed any specific people or personality types that do well or don't do well with percentages and kind of all

the terms i would say that most young boys uh like that's why i said that ryan is a an anomaly is like most 18 year old boys like when i was was 18, I mean, I would have, I would have hated to coach me when I was 18. I would have been, I would have hit myself with a bat is what I would have done. And I would have needed it. But you know, so that would be, I think most girls are like, they will follow the program to a T almost. On the other side, almost to a detriment. Like if I put percentages for a female that's asking for trouble because they

might be having a terrible day because they cycle obviously bigger than boys. I mean, their whole body's on a massive cycle. Yeah. If I say, you know, go to, you know, 85% for five by five, which would be super hard. They're going to do that at all costs. Like even if it hurts them for the rest of their lives, they would do it. So that would be super hard they're gonna do that at all costs like even if it hurts them for the rest of their lives they would do it so that would be the problem whereas the boy you know you know they're more apt to like back down but they're also more apt to go too far so it's

like it's it's so hard to like find that program to where it fits all these different personalities yeah that's why i think having access to all three of them, being able to use all three of them is really important for coaches and people just writing their own programming, like understanding the type of athlete that they are. I know, like, if you were coaching me and you said just, like, I did so much better with just the build to a X and then back it down like you're talking about,

mainly just because everything I did was really just based off. So feel than so much more of the percentage stuff I've followed percentage programs. And sometimes you just look at those numbers and you go, how the hell am I going to hit inside 90% again for the third time this week, where if you don't see that number and someone just says, build a heavy double you could do it every day your body your body's strong enough to do it but looking at that like 92 percent doubles three of them you're like again i can't do it so taxing on your brain see but if you like you're like that so that that would work great if I see 2RM, I'm going to a fucking 2RM, man.

I mean, I might die, but I'm going to go for it so hard. It definitely doesn't – the rep maxes for me is asking for trouble. So I'll go until my head pops out. Even if you say 9RPE, I won't even see that. I'm like, yeah, like like i'm an idiot i need velocity like for me like for some reason the velocity keeps me like reined in and that's the only thing i've ever found otherwise yeah i was such an idiot i would listen to louis and keep going you know i was just like i was like better man you know i didn't

even hitting a rep max at a specific speed you're measuring the speed and you're getting to a rep max at you know 0.8 meters per second or whatever it is right because then i'm still i'm still going all out is the way my brain works like i'm going as much as i can for this speed, and I still feel like that maximum true. Yeah. You like that better than hitting percentages? I do. I love it because percentages, like I said, they can be like – Anders was completely right.

On some days, because we all have lives, obviously if we lived in Russia and we just lived – if we slept, slept eight and trained, it would be easy. But for us, we have kids and we have work and we have, I have school. So stress builds up. And so 85% might very well be 99% that day. And so, but I'll still do it if I see it. I'm doing it. I don't care. But like, if I see, you I see the velocity just keeps me still pushing as hard as I can, I'm still going to what I feel is the max effort at that speed. And for some reason, that just speaks to my brain better than RP or percentages. For whatever reason, it's the only thing that's ever reigned me in.

Even at 47, you'd think I would learn and i still don't you know like yeah i didn't even put the speed of the bar and velocity into the kind of the picture because it's so hard for people to conceptualize the speed of the bar so how does somebody everybody's had that day where everything feels so snappy and if that's your your 1 one RM day while you're snatching, that's your, that's your best ever. How is somebody actually going to conceptualize velocity of the barbell without having one of those fancy tools that, uh, that you have to be able to actually put a number to it?

Well, there's some, you know, you can actually get apps now. They're accelerometer now, or they're not going to be as accurate as like, you know, my demo wear or my flexion it, but, um, but you could do that.

The key would be precision. It would not necessarily have to be, it doesn't have to be accurate. It just needs to do the same thing every time. And as long as that's the case, you can track data for a little bit and then you'll know kind of where you are. And so,

but yeah, but otherwise, you know, they're making several units that are affordable nowadays you know like the flex is like you can get it you know it's you know close to 500 bucks but it's not like the 2500 gym wear or now they're making this really crazy one um it's a dude spencer arnold uses it and it is super fancy it's like uh you put it on the rack and it it like for some reason yeah it captures the video and they've created a formula that sends it back to him what was the one that we had down in jamaica when we had got that was gem aware that was tied to the bar yes i work with that company now. Well, tell them what your code is.

Get them to save some money. Mash 5. There it is, Mash 5. Go do it. A lot of people are getting that little flex unit, which is you see me using that the most. I use the gym wear with my athletes, and I use the flex on myself. That has to be the most effective way of all of them if you have that

to be able to say well this you can build to a specific speed of the bar and as much weight as possible and then start to play inside 10 of that number especially you know i think that people really lose sight of you know it's because the sport of weightlifting is how much can you lift? And that's the most important number. But to understand how much training you need to be doing from 80 to 90, 92% somewhere in there in that eight to nine RPE or one to two reps in reserve that's really where like the bulk of all of your gains and speed and technique need to be done yeah you can't get it by going you cannot get strong by lifting lightweight

that people they are lying you know like you eventually sometime around you have to go heavy or your body you know won't understand what's happening, especially in weightlifting. You can't snatch 70% on and on and on and then say, okay, let's go max out at 101. Good luck with that. Just you saying that, I can envision three members of my gym that moved so beautifully. If I moved as well as they did in the Olympic lifts, I would have just maybe been slightly more above average. But the problem when you would see them lift is you would just go, you're so weak. You have perfect mobility. You have perfect form.

Everything about the way you lift weights is perfect, but you got no ass because you don't go heavy you don't do that often and it would annoy me so much because i go who gives a shit how great this looks it's like you just you ever your overhead i would love to have that overhead position but why don't you go get a little bit of ass why don't you put some quads on your legs and go lift some freaking weight i watch your videos lately you look really good like your movement is pretty darn good i literally was watching yesterday i like i saw you on on instagram lifting and i was like man you move really well thanks i wish i could put my feet i got four years of uh eligibility left oh let's go i know the school come back and get my phd with you bro awesome we would both i'd

have to go back i actually looked into when you started doing this i was like man that would be cool to go back and just re redo so many good things but because i have an mba i have to go back and take like biology 101 i'm going back to four years of college basically. I got three years just to get to any of those programs. You can take the exercise science degree at Lenoir, right? All you have to have is anatomy one and two. So you'd have to take anatomy one and two and that's it. Then you could get in. And it's, I'll tell you.

Do they need a marketing guy to hang out? Because we could get moved to the mountains. That's a part of life. That's real. We talk about it all the time, Because we could get moved to the mountains. That's a part of life. That's real. We talk about it all the time, even though we just moved to the Burbs. They need the marketing. I think Lenore Ryan needs the marketing because they have so much to offer, but they're not very good at telling people about it.

That's why they're loving me right now because I'm telling more people than they are. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, I went back to look look just i mean literally because you were going back and taking all those classes while uh you're up all night studying writing papers and talking about everything you're learning and i was like damn that'd be cool i need to get on like just staying in the game like i read more business books now than i read like exercise science and programming books.

When I went back to look, I would look at the programs and I'd be like, oh my God, I've got a long ways to go. I don't even know how many credits roll over from 20 years ago. That'd be terrifying. Go back. You've got to take those two, anatomy and physiology, one and two, and then you'd roll right into it. It's so awesome. If you've got certain things like biomechanics if you're a little bit behind they'll help you catch up it's great um i'm crushing 4.0 so far damn how long is that phd

program like how long until you write your your thesis paper what's it what's it called i'm betting three probably three or four years i think i'm about to knock out the first second so it's like a i'm rolling in i'm gonna crush the exercise science in a year then into the phd i would say that'll be the hard one the phd so i'm thinking three years yeah i'm about i'm crushing this masters as this exercise science thing so yeah i feel like the school part is going to be would be would be tricky for me i would hate to sign up and then go oh i forgot i'm not good at school i don't like this yeah i i forgot why i didn't go to class for so long it's fun it's the exact

reason i didn't get my phd like school i was like i was like filling out applications i was like i don't fucking want to do this anymore what am i doing i'm just like i'm just following the path yeah i need to step off of this train even when i was getting my mba i would just i probably went to like 60 of the classes really i just well the my drive at the time was uh it's exactly what doug was saying i just i was just following the path i didn't know that it was like i that it i didn't know at the time that i probably should be really digging into this stuff and i was gonna go open a gym all i needed to do was cash in cash out hope i could survive because I'll just live in the gym whatever um I didn't learning about stock markets and all that stuff wasn't top of mind I'd like to know

that stuff but I would I there's no way I could go to school for that like I'd like to know but like not enough to actually do that shit yeah I really looked into it I think are you going to when you so just kind of getting back to those those big concepts with i mean your your whole thing is about program design and for like finding the perfect way to write and program for people i'll be testing this is everything we're talking about today is like that's why i'm so fired up about this show but yeah it's like it's that it's what athlete testing is what i'm going to do both Both my, you know, my thesis and, you know, whatever the thing with the PhD is. So, yeah. Dissertation.

Yeah. The dissertation. That's the word we're looking for. That's a good one, right? I want you to be a full professor with Dr. Andy Galpin. I'll be 80 when I become a full professor. I can't wait. Andy's the one who inspired all this. The minute I met him, I knew that that's. I started doing it. I can't wait. Andy's the one who inspired all this.

The minute I met him, I knew that that's what I wanted to do. I just wasn't sure how I would get it done. Yeah. Yo, when we kind of getting back to those, the percentage work, when you write programs, is there a time in which you transition away from saying a percentage?

Like if it's very cumbersome when you do look at a program, and I don't even know how often percentage work is really used. I think most coaches have probably gotten away from that just as they progress and write programs more and more they're probably using something along with your writing but you know I I know there's programs that I've written where it's like we're gonna be at 96 percent today and it's like that's probably you know in writing something like that there's a there's a better way to communicate that message but I have I know that I've written programs for myself where I'm like adding

2% every week. Um, as a, as a coach, what was a little bit of the process and realizing that may not be the most effective way to communicate to two athletes. I mean, I, I know when I started learning more about it and, and developing more programs and getting away from specific percentage work because of that, that exact thing where you'd look at a paper, it's like, okay,

today's going to be 90, 97%. And you go, uh, that's max writing that on paper looks ridiculous. If you put 96% to most athletes, they're going to be like, okay,

you're telling me to max out is what you're saying. Yeah. Like, I'm not going to stop 4% below it i'm like but i can remember the writing those programs yeah i would say mainly because i just didn't i didn't have the like i didn't have the experience i had worked with enough people so i'd write it in my spreadsheet it would be so perfect like two percent each week now i'm at 96 percent oh yeah i would say that in person i would when i get to that point that's like the competition phase and i

would write that as like second attempt you know because then i start writing it like there is like it looks like to me so i'll say you know go to last warm-up your opener you know second attempt i want to put percentages because i want them to start you know thinking about it in terms of the So go to last warm-up, your opener, second attempt. I want to put percentages because I want them to start thinking about it in terms of the competition. The last two to four weeks, depending on how much time I have, it won't be percentages. It'll be based on openers, second attempts, last warm-up, next to last warm-up.

That's how I write it. I know we used to – I actually wanted to really talk about how you do it in a lead-up into a peaking phase, but I remember those programs that we would write for the gym because so many people – like you take these concepts, and I think coaches really struggle in a large group setting like that to actually figure out how to get – like you've got 30 people in a CrossFit class. And they go, two reps in reserve

and you've got someone that's been in the gym for a month you got someone that just got out of your your fundamentals class and then you've got the athlete that's been there three years actually moves well and you go okay rpe nine like huh what is what is that so actually writing some of that percentage stuff but do you have a chart in any of your books or doug i don't even know if we have one of layer laying out like percentages matching reps and reserve matching rpe um do you have any of those charts of just like a very rough outline of how that all lines up are you talking right now anybody you you can make those and i've seen things like that the problem is every time i look at i go oh that doesn't no it doesn't make sense how is this going to work for everyone it's like it's a it's a broad generalization like if you say like you know your

fiber at max is is 82 and a half percent it's like oh fucking maybe you know maybe i don't know i mean i might put on 82 and a half and get 11 yeah and that dude the only reason i brought it up was because i feel like if i in in a gym setting where you have so many different people with so many different things and no one's getting like a personalized specific program. Just helping coaches communicate what that actually looks like. Because I mean, everybody understands percentages. It's just making sure that they're,

that athletes are implementing it the right way when they see it written on the whiteboard. Here's what I would do. If I'm a, if I'm a CrossFit coach coaching a big class of people, I would just say this for the, you know, especially I would do. If I'm a CrossFit coach coaching a big class of people, I would just say this. Especially I would say, look, everybody who's been here less than two years, 5RM, just don't miss. That's what I would say.

So stop before you might miss. That's great. This brings me to a good point. You said earlier about the first couple years just kind of go hard. And you're right because Brian Mann did a ton of research, and he said that for the first two years of training, if you increase the absolute strength, you increase every quality of strength. But then after that is when specificity comes into play.

So then I would say then for everyone else in the class who's been here longer than two years then you would start telling them rpe rir but for everyone else just go to a 5rm a 3rm and just don't miss and that's how i would do it those days really are the most fun too yeah like when i think about i i run my whole life in training right now off like an eight RPE. It's like go until it feels heavy, do like two more and then go walk away. Absolutely. You know that I think if I had a big class, I, or, you know, if I was a college coach or if I'm a CrossFit coach or a high school strength coach, I would just use, you know, I would just use rep maxes.

And then maybe after two or three years, RPE, RIR. But for the first, just go to a, you know, go to a rep max, don't miss. Yeah, I totally agree with that structure, by the way. Yeah. Rep maxes for a couple years, and then you can add in RIR and all that. Yeah, I think that's a great way to do it. I think with the hypertrophy stuff too like if you're you know at the beginning you're talking about finding

just going to failure basically and getting as strong as possible with with perfect form um so many people get get into this though just looking to build muscle and trying to like lifting as much as possible is there is there any risk in that just overall, you don't really get burned out too much in the beginning cause it's just so much fun. Every week you get stronger. Um, but as you,

as you progress, you're going to need to be able to connect the amount of weight you're lifting to how your body feels. is there, is there a risk at all in programming some sort of RPE in which people just aren't working hard enough? I know your athletes aren't the problem. You gotta, you're, you're pumping the brakes on them more than, uh, saying, saying go harder.

But I think a lot of people that may not understand what true failure actually feels like and what those numbers look like. If they don't have, if they don't spend time building to maximal strength, finding failure and spending time doing that, they really run the risk of underperforming in that they, that perceived exertion piece. They just aren't going to be able to really get the, the stimulus out of the amount of weight

they're lifting because it's not enough right especially early on like people don't know how to go hard yes exactly and so like i definitely would keep this for advanced people and i would avoid you know i would avoid rpe with with you know newbies because they they have so much to gain they have they have all much to gain. They have, they have all this neural adaptation that's going to take place. But if you start holding them back, like you could, you could keep them from that. And so like, you know, turn them loose for a couple of years, then rein them back in.

Just don't miss to say, just stop before you might miss. I get a lot of questions from very young listeners of the show that ask me complex questions like this. And all I ever write back to them is, go get strong. Yeah. Just go. Don't worry about what I just said on the podcast about RPE. Yeah. I'm super stoked that you are asking the question because it means you want to learn more and it means that you are on the path and you're you're asking the right questions and being curious and all that

but if you're like if you're 17 years old just go get jacked and go lift all the weights as much as possible you should lift all the way up to 15s you should lift all the way up to 15s. You should lift all the way down to ones. You should just be mashing food all the time and just go get strong as hell. And don't worry about how many reps and reserve and this perfect stimulus that you need to be chasing after. Because, yo, you only got this little window with this beautiful thing called testosterone. You should use it as much as you possibly can and get strong as hell and then later on you can fill everything out and and worry about these these like higher level training tools because most people just need to go get jacked and go lift as much as possible a lot of volume just go get after it i think you, that window between 18 and 20 is the most beautiful window.

Like, I think I have the data to back it up too. Like, you know, when those kids are super young, you get these big gains. But, like, you know, around 16 to 18, things slow down a little bit. But then 18 hits, my Lord. Like, I swear, Ryan, it's as if he's on steroids. Like, he can do whatever he wants, basically. Like, he says hey i'm gonna snatch 150 today i would be like probably you know okay don't hold him i would say this

for all the coaches out there you know don't hold them back you know at 18 like turn them loose a little bit rein them back in at 20 and then yeah for end of the ride. But for 18 to 20, go, man. You started lifting when you were 13, right? Yeah, 11. I was 11. 11. Doug, you were 14? 14. 14, 15?

I was 13. And now that I'm old and I look back at what was going on, I don't even think I was really getting stronger from like 13 to 18. Even though the weights were going up and all that but i really feel like what i was doing was just creating this as violent of a situation like an ecosystem that my body when all the testosterone kicked into was going to have to meet the demands of that violent ecosystem that i had created in the way. Well, everything else in my life was very soft. So the gym was the only place that I could go be the animal that I was trying to create. Yeah. I mean, it really is the only,

my, my very soft upbringing and it wasn't a very tumultuous place. You were in more fights and by the age of 11 than I've been in my whole life, I bet. Yeah, that was no fun. My childhood, yeah. Having to fight and wanting to fight is two different things. But in those early ages, it was the only place. So I just went in there and basically maxed out every single day. That was the plan.

It was just, I have to go do this. And then once the testosterone kicks in, that's when you go, oh, it wasn't about the program that I'm on today. It was about the program I was doing two years ago, just creating this demand for my body to have to catch up to all the reps and all the heavyweights so that when when the when the good jujus showed up it was like i was able to grow into it that's why i love seeing about all the guys that you're coaching right now is they they all just became they they have this like little glimmer of manliness no more sunken bird chests they got they were all filling out. Ryan has blossomed. Yeah, he has turned into a monster. I know.

I don't know how he packs because I weighed him. The other day I'm like, okay, you're lying to me about your weight. So I weighed him. I'm like, damn, you really are still. How does he stay 148? I mean, he looks like he's put on 15 pounds. I know. It's just, I don't know, super dense.

I don't know it's super dense i don't know man like he is he is uh i don't know how a guy that is 148 pounds can lift that like i don't know and he looks yeah i think he's gotten you know obviously less body fat he's not that short he's like five eight five nine no he's five six is he yeah maybe i haven't stood next to him that well. Yeah, he's my – so he's a jacked 5'6 dude, man. I don't know. Yeah. He's about to kill it this weekend. We're competing in – he competes on Sunday in Georgia at the Power and Grace. Oh, nice.

Is that live? Is that in person? It's in person. Yeah, we're going – yeah, Georgia don't care. They're like, whatever, COVID. COVID what? What is that COVID? Yeah. Dude i'm in florida right now and when we all showed up everybody's like got their mask on yeah and you're here like two days walking around the hotel nobody's got it on

nobody took 24 hours before i was like this this is annoying. I'm on vacation. Take this stupid mask off my face. Yeah, I'm protecting them. They don't care. So, yeah. Take it off. They don't care. Coach Travis Smash, where can the people find you? This is a fun show.

Yeah. This got me jacked up. Masterly.com. You can go to Instagram, Masterly Performance. If you really want to get pumped up go to linkedin he's still smashing the link i couldn't keep up i couldn't keep up i like linkedin too many things i'm on tiktok looking at only fans people and it just wants to rock he wants to rock look Look at his kick. Doug Larson. And, Travis, you just launched the Power of the Clean, your new book.

Yeah, man. Yeah, I killed it. Thank God. The Power of the Clean is – it's all about the clean. I mean, the science, the programming, how you teach it, how you regress it, like every single assessment for it. It's pretty much anything you want to know about the clean, it's great. And I wrote it for strength and conditioning and crossfit coaches in mind that's what was in mind you know

weightlifting coaches too but i would assume most weightlifting coaches i would like to believe that they know how to teach the clean but if you don't you don't have to tell anybody just buy my book i won't tell them if you're a great coach and you bought it but that's it yeah um that's master league.com slash clean so yeah i'd imagine even if you are it but that's it yeah um that's masterleague.com uh slash clean so yeah i'd imagine even if you are pretty experienced there's probably still a few little nuggets in there like like slightly different ways of thinking a slightly different perspective that gives you a little insight like there's there's knowledge in there for everyone i would say this is like yeah because like you know when we debate all these things if if every weightlifting coach

had just a little bit of knowledge about biomechanics which is in there you would know if you're right or wrong and so like understanding biomechanics you know center of gravity center of mass like i think that would be a big help and that would end a lot of arguments if people just knew that basic you know bit of science so it's in's in there. So it'll help you for sure. It'll end arguments because some of them are ridiculous. But yeah. Right on, dude. Thank you, man.

Doug Larson. Find me on Instagram at Doug with C. Larson. I'm Anders Varner at Anders Varner. We are Barbell Shrugged at barbell underscore shrugged. Get over to barbellshrugged.com forward slash store. That's where all the programs, e-books, nutrition, mobility, making strong people stronger and coming soon.

I don't know when this is going to hit the airs. We're coming to Walmart, San Diego, LA, Las Vegas. Make sure you get into the performance nutrition section. We've got three programs coming up.

You can go get your free, not free download. You got to pay, but it's like 25% of what our normal e-books cost and strength, fat loss, and cardio. Get in there, Walmart. We'll see you guys.

That's a wrap, friends. Make sure you get over to Fit Together, F-I-T-T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R. Bodyweight Challenge starts October 5th. Giving away cash, prizes, and programs from Barbell Shrugged. Fit Together's handling cash. We're handling programs. You're going to get jacked. You're going to get rich.

Pat the back pocket, not just with glutes but with cold hard cash uh fit together f-i-t-t-o-g-e-t-h-e-r fit together in the app store also magnesium breakthrough make sure you get over to buy optimizers.com forward slash shrugged and use the code shrugged to save 10 also organifi look it's pumpkin spice season if you're not doing it right now like this the best way possible pumpkin spice plus the vitamins and minerals you need to get on it and we are going to see you on wednesday with our boy hunter mcintyre lighten it up