Barbell Shrugged - How To Run A World Class Training Program with Kevin Carr, Anders Varner, and Doug Larson — Barbell Shrugged #390

Episode Date: May 1, 2019

Kevin Carr (@kev_in_carr) has already amassed a wealth of experience in the field of sports performance and personal training while working at Mike Boyle Strength and Conditioning in Woburn, Massachusetts. Working with everyone from US Olympians looking for a competitive edge to the Average Joe or looking to shed some pounds and get healthier he has helped countless clients move better and live healthier lives.   In addition to receiving a Bachelor Degree in Kinesiology from The University of Massachusetts-Amherst and a License in Massage Therapy from Cortiva Institute- Watertown, he is also credited with the completion of numerous continuing education certifications including FMS, SFMA, NKT Level 1 and 2, FRC, FAPP, Pn1, and PRI.   In this episode of Barbell Shrugged we talk about Kevin’s background, building a diverse foundation as a kid, where massage therapy fits into the picture,  finding the window of opportunity for education, how to start tough conversations with parents, why principles lead to understanding, Kevin’s mission, why training is a recipe, not a menu, and much more.   Enjoy! - Anders and Doug   Episode Breakdown   0-10:  Kevin’s background, using movement as medicine, combining exercise with massage work, and how Kevin got his start with Mike Boyle 11-20: When to specialize in sports, building a diverse foundation as a kid, and where massage therapy fits into the picture 21-30: Empowering people through movement, how loss of identity leads to pain, how to make a business work for everyone, the importance of referrals, and the culture of greatness 31-40: Identifying the outcome for the individual, knowing that not everyone trains for the same reason as you, and why building relationships with people is the best way to coach them 41-50: The majority of kids don’t become college athletes, unlearning bad habits, dealing with parents, finding the window of opportunity for education, and how to start tough conversations with parents   51-60: Teaching mental toughness in the kids you work with, how to create good adults, where kids coaches go wrong, and helping kids see the optimism in everything 61-70: Big picture vs. details, what’s missing in the fitness industry, the internship process, the principles of training, and why principles lead to understanding 71-80: Translating literature, the experience of working with Mike Boyle, the most valuable conversations Kevin and Mike have are not about training, and where the certification is going 81-90: Kevin’s mission, foam rolling and massage, how to define strength to parents who are scared of their kids lifting weights, and why training is a recipe, not a menu 91-100: It’s easier to workout when your life is balanced, values change as you get older, the stress people go through everyday, and implementing breathe work into training 101-114: The principles of coaching transfer to all aspects of life, how to build systems, the importance of a growth mindset, push back is part of life, accepting the risk of sport on health, and where to find Kevin   ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Show notes at: http://www.shruggedcollective.com/bbs-carr ----------------------------------------------------------------------- @organifi - www.organifi.com/shrugged to save 20% @halo- gethalosport.com/Barbell  $20 off an additional $100 for presale orders @whoop - whoop.com  “shrugged” for 20% off @vuori - www.vuoriclothing.com “SHRUGGED25” to save 25% storewide   ► Subscribe to Barbell Shrugged's Channel Here ► Subscribe to Shrugged Collective's Channel Here http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedSubscribe 📲 🎧 Listen to the audio version on the Apple Podcast App or Stitcher for Android Here- http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedApple http://bit.ly/BarbellShruggedStitcher Shrugged Collective is a network of fitness, health and performance shows that help people achieve their physical and mental health goals.  Usually in the gym, but outside as well. In 2012 they posted their first Barbell Shrugged podcast and have been putting out weekly free videos and podcasts ever since. Along the way we've created successful online coaching programs including The Shrugged Strength Challenge, The Muscle Gain Challenge, FLIGHT, Barbell Shredded, and Barbell Bikini. We're also dedicated to helping affiliate gym owners grow their businesses and better serve their members by providing owners tools and resources like the Barbell Business Podcast. Find Shrugged Collective and their flagship show Barbell Shrugged here: SUBSCRIBE ON ITUNES ► http://bit.ly/ShruggedCollectiveiTunes WEBSITE ► https://www.ShruggedCollective.com INSTAGRAM ► https://instagram.com/shruggedcollective FACEBOOK ► https://facebook.com/barbellshruggedpodcast TWITTER ► http://twitter.com/barbellshrugged

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A workout partner you want to see look a little bit better? Vioreclothing.com forward slash shrugged. Save 25% and you're going to look and feel amazing. Kevin Carr this week, friends. He's the man that makes Boyle Strength Conditioning, the Certified Functional Strength strength conditioning, the certified functional strength coach cert,

and training for hundreds of professional athletes a reality. Let's get it. The certification. Are you still traveling for all that? Yeah, that's why I'm leaving. Oh, you're going to Budapest to teach people how to sprint. Yeah, and Croatia too. Budapest and Croatia I'll do next week.

Croatia, that's where it's at. Sick. Dude, Croatian women are the best. He's single. Freaking crazy there. Yeah. Yeah. And then,

yeah. So I travel a lot. Like I'm doing, then I'll come back. I'll be home for a month. Like I try to like travel and then stay here and make sure this, everything's good here. And then the big one,

like the big ones I space out, like I'll do Dubai and Shanghai in May and I'll do Sao Paulo in May. Dude. Killer. Yeah. So I do. Yeah. We're all over May, and I'll do Sao Paulo in May. Dude, killer. Yeah. So I'll do. Yeah, we're all over the U.S., man. You're all over the world. We're trying to.

And then like so all these other guys, like Dan, all these other guys all teach for us too. How many coaches do you guys have on staff here now? At MBSC, including the interns, about 30 to 40. Fuck, Boyle just did it. Yeah, and then for CFSC, we probably had like 10 of us. I had like nine employees and I was

my yeah well I mean thankfully like we do like a group job managing like myself and Steve and Dan

like and Vinny like all do it together yeah cause like if not it'd be like it'd be hard it'd be hard right

welcome to Barbell Shrugged I'm Anders Varner Doug Larson yeah yeah we're back MBSC Mike Boyle Strength and Conditioning. Yeah.

We were just here. I'm going to say we're in Woburn, but that's not even close to right because every time I say that, somebody goes, Woburn. There's no W. I don't even know. People are making fun of me for the way I talk. Woburn. Woburn. It's all right.

Woburn. The woo. The woo. We're the woo. Woo. Wu-Tang Clan. Yeah. There it is.

Kevin Carr in the house, dude. Yeah. Thank you for having me. The first time I met you, I actually did my CFSC with you. When was that? Certified Functional Strength Coach. Long Beach, 2003 years ago. Wow.

2000. Where would that be? 2015? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brendan was like the breakout person. But that was when I, because he owns the massage movement as medicine with you, right?

Yes, correct. I remember learning about movement as medicine. I was like, why the hell didn't I think of that name? That is like the greatest name for a business ever. Credit to our professor, Barry Braun in college. He wrote an article. And Brandon and I were like, oh, we're using that. We're taking that and making that our name.

Did you guys go to school together? I started following you on social media. Just after reading the name, I was like, movement as medicine? That sounds like something I'd like. Yeah. I didn't even check the quality of anything. I was just like, done. Done.

Yeah, jackpot name. Yeah, we went to UMass Amherst together, Brandon and I. Killer. 2010. Oh, rad. Yeah, it's actually funny. We met. I don't know if you ever see a college rec center training environment.

There's a lot of testosterone flying around, like, guys, like, flexing. So, Brennan and I, ironically, though, like, we bonded over the use of a foam roller. He's like, you're using a foam roller in college? And then we became friends from there. Are you taking care of your body? Yeah. Wow. Just like that.

That's awesome. Western Mass. Yeah. That's where I went to high school. Where? Williston. Out there in the heartland of Massachusetts. Right. East Ham Western Mass. Yeah. That's where I went to high school. Where? Williston. Out there in the heartland of Massachusetts. Right.

East Hampton Mass. Yeah. If you're listening out there, shout out to East Hampton. Yeah, right. There's like eight people in that town. Tell us about Movement as Medicine. Yeah. We call ourselves movement therapists, not necessarily massage therapists,

because we try to discourage people to focus on just the passive treatment, right? We use massage and our manual therapy skills to work with people who are either general pop or athletes at the gym. And we'll use those use the various systems whether it's you know sfma or things we learn from pri or functional range conditioning along with our manual skills to kind of transition them into exercise killer what was your background getting into i mean you're at mbsc so clearly you enjoy being around the weights um how did you end up here what's a little bit your training background this is a this is really it's a funny story how i ended up at mbsc because i was uh i was lucky enough to start here when i was like 19

years old which like i a lot of people kind of screw around to kind of find their way to a place like this after like they like kind of learn from some mistakes and i was i was working at a gold's gym in high school and i met this guy named clark evans he was a uh a like contracted trainer and i was just like me i was going to town on the chest press and the leg press, like typical 19-year-old kid. And this guy was doing single leg squats. And I remember being like, oh, man, this guy, I've never seen anything like this. So I worked out with him, and he crushed me.

And I said, I was like, where did you learn this? And he said to me, he's like, oh, I just did this mentorship with this guy, Mike Boyle. He works at BU. You should look into it. I was about to go to school to UMass for kinesiology. So I applied my freshman year to intern here. And I've just been here since. I was a football player. I was just into lifting weights. And then in college, while I started training

here, I also got into powerlifting with Brendan because he had a background in it. So I kind of went through that whole thing. And then I've been here since then. The evolution of a strength coach happened for me under this roof as opposed to, you know, somewhere else. Are there many strength athletes that train here? You said powerlifting, which is not generally what I associate with Boyle, like, it's not, it's just not the culture here. No, no, definitely not, I mean, and that's what, that's what's interesting, and even so, like, I still went through that evolution while being here, And then Mike gave me the, like, I told you so type of thing. After all banged up.

But, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just was lucky. I got this low back pain. I hurt. Where do you hurt? Everywhere. Yeah, exactly. So I think my evolution just probably was accelerated because I kind of had him being like, you're an idiot.

Once somebody plants it in your brain, like, hey, by the way, you're going to kill yourself. Like, are you sure? Yeah. I'm really strong. And then a week later, like, you were right the way, you're going to kill yourself. Like, are you sure? Yeah. I'm really strong. And then a week later, like, you were right. Yep. I learned. There's nothing wrong with hurting yourself as long as you know you're playing a sport.

And it's about winning at the sport, not necessarily only about preserving your body. Like, if you're a football player, an MMA fighter, like, your body's going to be beat to shit. Like, you're trying to win. Yeah, that's the whole thing. I mean, that's anytime you have competition involved, there's going to be some sort of chance of injury involved too. Right. Right. And, I mean, I learned a lot from that training experience.

Like, I learned how to lift in that experience. And now I just kind of learned how to program better in the process here. Yeah. So, it was good. You guys have created such a hotbed for coaches around here. Like, when we interviewed Mike, he kind of, like, in a way just brushed it off that he's, like, really led this profession as a strength coach. But you being kind of like one of the protégés and now running so many of the programs here what really separates this place

from just every other gym like why are so many good coaches coming out of this place um i think it's because of the focus on the internship program and the education like from the everyone who works here has to go through the internship process. So it's like you have essentially a three-and-a-half-month interview that has a curriculum. Everybody has to go through it. So we all go through that same experience. And then once you're here and you're working, I think there's a continual process and culture here of like we want to learn

more and we want to be better. Mike's always bringing in guest speakers. We're always going in staff meetings and kind of questioning what we're doing like we had a couple in services the last couple months and now we just started talking today at the meeting like hey these are things we have to scrap and things we have to add back in and because of that I think it creates a culture where people want to get developed and they want to try to get better and then the people who leave here from that tend to I think stand out yeah what is that process though of I mean there's so much knowledge in here.

It would almost be hard for me to believe that there's many things that you're actually doing wrong or need to be questioned in a way. Like, there's hundreds of years of experience of coaching. I think you can always slice it thinner, though. Like, whenever, like, the program on the surface looks good, but then sometimes we're like, when you're in it and you're coaching it, like we can do this better. And I think I always say like the process of like being really great at anything isn't like the people who are really great always say like, oh, I can be better. It's not always like, oh, we're doing a good job. Right.

So I think it's Mike fosters that process of saying, OK, what are we doing wrong? How can we do better? Because if not, I think it would be really easy to kind of rest on. I mean, all these things are going really well the business keeps growing people keep getting better but i don't think that you're always searching for the perfect program you never find the perfect program right and that's the essence of it we came in here probably three months ago and i think the age difference in people on the training floor was like 12-year-olds to 60-year-olds. And they're all doing virtually the same thing. Yeah.

What kind of is the high-level program that you guys are running and meeting, like teaching kids these fundamentals and then in a way just restoring movement function to adults? Yeah, I really think like good programming, if you're like really rooted in your principles, like the program for a 12-year-old kid who's first starting versus I have a couple that's both in their mid-70s, it doesn't look that much different. We focus on just getting basic movement competency. Can they hinge? Can they squat? Can they plank? Do they have anti-extension strength?

Go through all those fundamentals. And then the level of the intensity or the speed of the progression might vary right like with the younger kids like i can have them sprint and throw and jump and like they're gonna bounce back and they're gonna probably be fine with the older adults you go a little bit slower and then there's might be some things that i just generally avoid like they're not gonna jump and in sprint but they're gonna maybe skip and do some ladders and throw some head balls that's still power work right yeah um but the program to like the average person they look at it they're like yeah i mean it looks like they're all doing the same thing and that's why i think if you're rooted in your principles then your programs and methods aren't going to be that much different just the

level of the intensity what's the youngest kids that you guys take in here uh like 11 we try to really cap it 11 years do you find thatyear-olds have already started to create movement dysfunction, or are they still pretty wired okay? There are some kids you start to see more and more. When does that start to happen where you start to see, like, whoa, that's wonky, dude. Maybe I'm starting to even make myself sound old, but you have these kids now younger and younger that, one, they play video games. They're not playing video games.

They probably play in the same sport 365 days a year. Sports specials, I've seen it change in the 11 years I've been here from when I started. There was more three-sport athletes. Now I see more and more kids who are like, oh, I have my high school hockey team. I have my club hockey team. I have my travel hockey team. I'm like, oh, you guys do anything else? Yeah, they play Fortnite.

That's what I get. So, yeah, you see, I think, a little bit. I've seen more issues in younger kids than I have in the past. Yeah. And I think mainly because they just don't have much variability in their movement. They do the same things all the time. Yeah. That's, like, a massive part of.

I remember just when you're playing, outside just in your neighborhood that's where like the real athleticism almost happens it was like i just remember balling out in my front yard playing street hockey like those games were so intense and now when i drive through neighborhoods like i have an eight month old so i'm like now i observe what happens in people's neighborhoods and i look and i'm like, nobody's outside. Like much less like there's a baseball field. No one's on it. There's a soccer field.

No one's on it. Where do kids learn how to play now? Yeah. And when you're kids, like you play multiple sports in a day, not just like multiple seasons. Like you'd be like, I'd go play basketball. Then we'd go play like baseball. Then we'd go play like caps and flags. Where did you learn how to be competitive?

Well, my neighbor was trying to eat my lunch every day. Like had to be the cool kid on my block it wasn't even about sports it was like dude the neighbor kid just beat you four times in a row yeah you better step it up well it's not even that that they're not outside playing either like i've seen i've seen this happen multiple times where we're like a 10 year old kid is playing on an ipad but like the way that they're doing it like i've seen kids sit on the couch. They're laying all the way down on their back. Their chin is all the way touching their chest because the back of their head is up against the seat, and their heels are all the way by their butt. They're just sitting there playing like this.

Basically in the fetal position. Yeah. If you just tacked your chin to your chest and were staring at a screen for hours every day, you can't not end up having weird mechanics yeah in other places of your life yeah like you build your basic like movement variability and skill and aerobic capacity as a kid like doing a lot of different things i always tell people like up until the time you're starting to really excel in like early in high school or like middle of high school like you want to build as diverse of a movement vocabulary and like aerobic health as you can by doing a

bunch of different things if you do that then you walk into a program like this where you'll start to narrow your focus down once you get into high school and then you're in a really good place it's the kids that don't do that that i think then run into trouble or overuse issues and things like that as as they get older when kids walk in here do you see them and you go oh you're one of those like you're the special one you can start to tell you can start to tell the kids' backgrounds as you get into, like, a dynamic warm-up. I could start to put kids in buckets and to be like, okay, this kid is going to excel

or this kid's going to need some remedial work to kind of get caught up. And some of it is just the rate at which they grow. Like, I was the type of kid that, like, I was really big. Like, I was this big in high school, right? So those kids, like, don't grow. They take a while to grow into their body, right? So sometimes it's it's just that like they're just not strong enough for their limb links yeah but then sometimes it's also like yeah i feel like this kid just hasn't had a very like diverse movement history up to this

point and you have to kind of catch them up and you guys have kind of a client base that goes all the way from this like 11 year old to professional athletes rolling through here all the time where do you end up coaching a lot of those people or are you more in the programming side of things for just the gym overall i coach everything yeah yeah i would say i would say that's what i really what i like about being here is like i don't get bored or like like over trained of like one population right I'll see over the course of the day a rehab, like a high school kid in here. I'll go out there and coach a group of adults. Then I coach a professional or college athlete.

Then I'll go see an adult in the rehab setting. So I can kind of see everything. So my day is fresh, which is really good because I think as a coach, being a very good generalist first can help you be a better, like specific coach somewhere else. I think if you don't have a – it's the same as as we just talked about movement if you don't have a diverse background as a coach sometimes it's hard to kind of see the big picture when you're working with a certain population so i for us i see it as an advantage for me yeah as a coach and it sounds like you're

not stuck in the gym all day long you were telling us earlier like you're traveling the world doing seminars and whatnot like i mean you're talking about europe and and in australia and wherever else like uh i think that really helps as well just being able to not be stuck in the same location every day as far as like long-term fulfillment yeah like if i was like just in the gym all day every day and never got to travel driving nuts even though i love being in the gym yeah i think i think for me like when i like i was i've been looking forward to this trip tomorrow like when i get on that plane i've been looking forward to being like oh there's a new destination all new coaches a bunch of new relationships, start to build and

see these people like whole new setting. That's really refreshing. And then by the end of the trip, I'm gone for like two weeks. I'm gonna be like, Oh man, I'm really ready to be back in the gym. Right. So that's, that's all refreshing, refreshing process as much as traveling makes you tired. Uh, it re-energizes me to go, but then it re-energizes me to come back here and get back to work so when did you guys start to incorporate your clinic is that what you call it yeah the clinic into just the population here and just kind of how the systems run that was about six years ago now so um we had been working here as coaches for about five years at that point and then brennan and i had both been in massage school at that time

and then we're how long is massage school um depends on where you go um here it took me about 18 months to get through it wow yeah and it depends because every state state to state the licensure and the hours and the requirements are different so um yeah it took us about 18 months and then it was really actually perfect because we didn't have this big space where we're sitting now where the turf room is and in that room was this was this last time we walked through there was hundreds of kids flying around and now just walking through there dude that's fucking awesome in there yeah it's great it's like a big playground right yeah so we were just in that middle space this was a different company here and they went out a business right when we finished

massage school and then we just immediately started paying rent in that space and just kind of you know got it up and running and figured it out as we went you know so it was uh it was a good timing on our part and it's just kind of grown as we go and we've had i've added four more therapists in there now oh wow so very cool yeah um what i guess in in relation to like a physical therapy clinic or like a chiropractic where does kind of massage and manual therapy fit into like kind of have its own little niche in the rehab space yeah i'd say what we kind of do is i don't deal with people like who are acute straight out of surgery like john paloff is right on the other side of the gym we have a really good relationship in that he'll see people who have an acute injury like hey i hurt my ankle yesterday like i sprained my ankle

they'll go see him or someone who just came out of surgery, they'll go see him. But people who are kind of dealing with chronic stiffness, discomfort, just movement issues, they'll come see us. Usually, they're either working with someone in the gym or they've got referred to from a friend who's been like, hey, I was told to come see you. And we'll kind of, we'll screen them and kind of figure out, okay, where are you on the spectrum? And most of these people, like, if it's that type of issue, the answer usually lies in like getting them more fit. I would say you're in my office because you weren't fit enough for something, whether that's sitting at your desk all day or that's playing a recreational sport or going to the gym, there's something that your body, you know, had to throw up the alarm on, right? So we kind of figure out

what do we have to do to kind of aid you in getting back to that and usually getting them into an exercise program progressively doing less work on the table doing less work stretching on the floor in there and more work training is usually part of the process i actually think if you were to ask most people about massage they would think about the relaxation side they wouldn't be thinking about like a performance side yeah to to the conversation is that something very specific to like what you guys are doing? I think you're going to see it go that way. I think as people start to realize that the active portion like is really the answer, like then you're going to see it go that way.

And this has been something I've had to educate the clients on as much as anybody else, because when I, when I'd first had people come in, they would be like, all right, I just expect you to, like, rub my leg and it's going to be better. And the hard answer is that that's really not a long-term solution. It might make it feel better in the short term. But the long-term solution is, like, maybe that manual therapy opens up a temporary window of opportunity for us to move better. But now it's about moving to kind of keep that quality movement up. So learning to have that conversation with clients was part of it. But now as you start to see the world of movement therapy and rehab,

I think you see more and more clinicians that recognize that. And we still do some traditional massage for people who need recovery, like people who are like, hey, I'm just feeling a little jacked up or I'm stressed. We'll do that stuff too because I think that fits in the puzzle. But ultimately, if you're talking about moving better and feeling better than than exercises you know movement is medicine yeah we called it that if someone has chronic pain or some type of movement dysfunction like how do they know that soft tissue work is what they need to do like how how would someone know they need to approach a massage therapist versus just you know doing more mobility work or warming up better or or whatever

yeah the tough part is like the lay person might not know like hey like i intuitively i need that what i i would say like a keen evaluation system like i use this the sfma as like my big picture uh looking movement quality and then depending on where that takes me whether it's it'll take me to their joint mobility answer or soft tissue dysfunction answer or a motor control answer that's where i find it for them so i'm in the discovery process with them as they come in for that that assessment um but generally like i i think that when you're someone who has chronic stiffness or chronic pain there's or like an issue movement is always going to be a part of it just as to how much like um sometimes i need to spend a few sessions doing a little bit more table work and a little bit more like stretching work. Uh, but sometimes they come in and it's pretty apparent right away. Like it's an exercise issue. Like I had a guy come in today who had come in saying he had chronic

stiffness and low back pain. Um, and it was pretty clear to me right after the assessment that like, uh, this isn't a stiffness issue. This is like a motor control and strength issue. Um, and we didn't really spend any time in there at all so i i always tell the therapists who work here too like don't be attached to the fact that you spent a year you know training your hands right and that can be hard that's why i think clinicians and coaches and um in general get stuck in niches right that they they or they become very singularly singularly focused i said don't get attached to the fact that you spent that time in school get attached to whatever that uh that answer was on your assessment.

We call that having a solution in search of a problem. Yes, that's it. Exactly. Yeah, that's an interesting one because your bills get paid by having clients on there. But it's in a way your focus is to get them back out on the training floor and not keep them in the clinic. I think that that's a really interesting situation right now that I see actually moving in a very good direction because people like you, physical therapists that are strength trainers, I think that like the physical therapists and like strength coach worlds have really started to kind of come

together a little bit. How, how do you just as a business, I mean, you're clearly growing your business, but the culture of it is to get people out of there and back on the training floor. Like there's almost a conflict of interest of what you have going on. Yeah. It's a little bit of a paradox. Cause like at the end of the day, like I, I could bill them and just keep rubbing them like they're doing massage work like every week but at the end of the day i give them a monthly membership yeah exactly and at the end of the day a lot of them do yeah yeah no you're right it's a good model and i think that for both parties i think i think doing a really good job and this might sound cliche at the end of the day and it solves that problem um because you get referrals like when you when they say hey i've

been going to this PT, or I was going to this other therapist, or this person for months, or I've seen all these other therapists and I haven't got better, and then they come here, and after a few visits, they start to feel better, and they start to feel empowered, and now they're exercising again, because half the solution sometimes is getting them their old identity back, and they start to feel better. If someone's been plagued with chronic back pain for months or years

and they used to identify as being someone who's very active or fit and they lose that, that helps prolong the persistent pain process. We know that from the research. So getting them back out here usually is part of the solution for them. And then because of that, they're like, I want to refer everybody to you. And we get a lot of referrals now that are people who don't come to the gym because they're but they're people who know people who have seen us so then you just refer them out to your gym yep and then and then

they and then the people the gym refer them back in so when we first started this i remember mike and ba was sitting down like we want to make sure this works for everyone right you're like you're just gonna let me open a business in your business. That's a pretty rare thing that he gave us that opportunity. And I remember the big conversation we had was referrals going back and forth, and that's been everything. And the more I can send people out and get them hooked up with a coach, whether it's me or usually one of these other coaches who are filling up their schedule, the better the process is for both of us.

It seems like you guys have also created a situation in here. I mean, saying his name, Paloff, even being here, because I usually talk, I say that word all the time, but usually it's just an exercise. Do you guys all work together really well? It seems like just inside these walls, everybody is focused clearly on making people stronger and healthier yeah um is we should go over and talk to him right after this um but uh how does that

culture kind of like cultivated in here and and how it all flows together yeah and it's something we had to work on like it like john someone who i've known for years before I even had this business. So it helps to like, I've had a personal relationship with him. So once this started up, we all kind of knew, okay, we have our best interests in mind, but we did have to figure out how to make it work. Right. Because there's gray area between who works where the good thing is, is that again, I think that, I mean, he does a really good job. Obviously the gym does a really good job. And I like to think we do a really good job. So because because of that if we're all focused on that and we're focused on like client not focused on our business yeah then all that almost takes care of

itself because when you have the clients best interest in mind whether it's someone who's coming from the gym or someone that's coming from John or someone's coming from myself and we're like hey you know what actually working with me is probably not gonna be the best answer working with John it's gonna be the best answer for you or going out and training is gonna be the best answer for you. Or going out and training is going to be the best answer for you. Ultimately, the business keeps flowing because there's success stories. And I think that marketing just keeps the door flowing with customers. That's a really rare thing.

I think even in just the PT and strength coach world, they try to create this divisive nature to the, to the conversation when it's like, if we all just focused on making people healthier, the thing would be a lot easier. Is when you guys sit down in these meetings and you have your interns and things going through, are you as movement as medicine running training in here,

as well as Kevin Carr strength coach running training with them? Like is Paloff coming in here and running stuff kevin carr strength coach running training with them like is paloff coming in here and running stuff for your interns absolutely um what does that like full three and a half month internship process look like for them yeah so i mean and we've all kind of as staff members taking turns like as the intern director like brendan and i did it for some time right now it's vinnie toluto and steve bigelow are running it as our staff. They're the directors, so they're kind of like the people doing the initial interviews, reviewing all the applications,

making sure they're staying in touch on the day-to-day with each intern, although all the interns coach with all of us every day, so they get a lot of interaction. But then, they have a curriculum where they have to read through a bunch of articles that we saw them out there. They're all studying right now. Yeah, today's day one of the spring interns.

This is their first day. That's why he's studying today. Day one. Everybody goes to the first class. Yeah, they're green. Kevin, look at me. I'm studying. Look at me.

Yeah, the test is a few weeks from now. When the days get long, let's see if you see how hard you're still working. That's why the internship's important. Is it a paid internship? It's a small pay. Yeah. It's a stipend. I mean, that's better than most.

Yeah. And so then they go through their curriculum and then every day they have to go through the workout and they're coached by one of our coaches. The big thing is we want them to do the program to understand the program. So they go through the program every day. They're getting coached and then throughout those workouts

they also have to do breakouts and coach everybody else. And then they'll get in services from our staff every week like we vinny and steve do a good job being like hey i got two hours open here who's going to do a lecture um and then they'll have to do some sort of report back on that and like today actually the interns that just finished all gave presentations of their summaries of their experiences here um about like things i learned uh like in all their learning experiences and reflections and stuff. So we really make them try to be to have to go through a strict curriculum, but then also reflect on that and share and grow. And it's helped us learn how to do it better in that process.

A lot of people that listen to our show are more CrossFit based or weightlifters or powerlifters and whatnot. So they understand what those workouts look like. But you guys do things a little differently. What's a model or a template for how you guys run your training sessions? Yeah, so all the athletes or adults will come in and foam roll or do the full body foam roll, kind of a general routine for them, but then they might go hit specific things.

Then we'll kind of do, as a group setting, we do mobility based off the joint by joint approach. So they'll do ankles, they'll do hips, they'll do T-spine, they'll do shoulders, and they'll do like some upper cervical type stuff. So they kind of make sure we hit all the big rocks as mobility goes. Then some general movement prep. So just teaching them how to bridge, teaching them how to, you know, disassociate hip and shoulder and things like that. Active warmup, 10 minutes, skipping, locomotion, all that good stuff. And then some sort of power, light implement power,

we might call it so whether it's med ball throwing or box jumping or hurdle hops whether it's that some days we break it up linear and lateral so the movement might be linear focus on monday wednesday where we're doing linear hopping and linear sprinting and then you know uh tuesday thursday might be lateral hopping and bounding and lateral speed work with med ball. Then we'll go weight room. So depending on the population, like all our able-bodied athletes that aren't like throwing athletes or overhead athletes, we'll hang clean in Olympic lift, whereas our adults pretty much stick to kettlebell work for power.

So they'll do like swings and stuff like that. And then we go through our strength segment, you know, push, pull, legs, core, every day kind of varies. And then whatever our conditioning is and energy system for that day, so whether it's running or airdyne bike work or something like that so yeah pretty pretty structured like that but i mean for some of the interns coming in that's like a whole new world i remember when i came here i was like i've never done anything like this that's interesting yeah and you said a second ago that your kids will do hand cleans your adults do kettlebell swings you guys do a great job with kind of the risk benefit ratio and now it's like thinking like a lawyer for that phrase being tossed around in this type of setting before. You know, why with that example would you not have adults do cleans, even if that seems like an obvious question to you?

Yeah, yeah. No, no. And it's just, again, you said it nail on the head when you said risk versus reward. I think about, look, I'm going to spend all this time teaching them this and it's very likely that one there's going to be a large segment of that population that's not going to tolerate the load on the joints whether it's the wrist or the back or the shoulders whatever it is from olympic lifts whereas if i can go kettlebell swing and they're going to get 80 of the same benefits from swinging a kettlebell with like 10 of the same amount of risk that's an easy decision for us right And usually I can get people up and kettlebell swinging pretty quickly. And, and, uh, that the adults are going

to be a little bit less tolerant to like go through the teaching process of cleans as the kids, like I'm just kind of drilling through cause they're athletes. Right. So yeah, we're always thinking about like, okay, is this the best choice I can make for this population? Even some of like our older athletes, some of the like veteran guys in the pro groups were like, ah, let's just go to kettlebell work for you because some of these hockey guys have history of wrist stuff or shoulder stuff and things like that. So the thing that I think Mike has really instilled us the most is auditing the program and saying, is this the absolute best choice for this person,

or can we get the job done using a different tool? And I think that's really what makes programs safe and effective at the same time. Where do you find that actual minimum effective dose? I think if you were to ask pretty much anybody, they'd be like, yeah, I need to lift more weight. And when you take away a power clean and substitute it for a kettlebell swing, if you were to ask the majority of call it CrossFit athletes or just people that are interested in training hard, where do you find what really is kind of that minimum effective dose of getting stronger? I think it really comes to going back and reminding, like, what is your ideal outcome, right? So, like, we go back to powerlifting, or you said, like, a CrossFit athlete,

then their outcome is the most weight on the bar or the most, whatever the goal is in that lifting setting. Whereas, like, if you're training athletes and you're training general population the outcome isn't necessarily the number that's where it gets we get mixed up because a lot of us as strength coaches are former strength athletes right yeah so you become very load focused well i'm training a 55 real guy who works at a desk like the number on the bar or the hang clean isn't necessarily the outcome for him you know feeling better losing 10 pounds looking better with his shirt off is the intended outcome so if i can get to that outcome with a tool that might not

threaten his health or make him his back sore the next day i'm gonna go with that right so i always tell coaches remember that they're probably not training for all the same things you trained for and having that conversation with them and figuring out what that is and what makes them tick that's that's how you make the right decision, I think. I actually remember training or, like, coaching in the beginning, coaching CrossFit and thinking, like, everybody wants to compete. Why would you do this type of training if you didn't want to compete? It's too hard.

Like, you should want to go do this against others. If not, just go do the regular thing like but yeah as i've aged i've thought like how little can i get away with just to keep the savings bank of fitness and strength and a lot of that stuff is so much lighter than you would ever imagine and so much getting away from like the technicalities of lifting and just actually showing up and lifting what may have been 50 of your max at one point but if you can deadlift 225 like how many people in the world really can deadlift 225 yeah and i mean the big picture is consistency yeah like are you like look at the whole year like are you checking the boxes

consistently every week sometimes it's just about checking the box like and showing up and getting maybe you get 75 of like the load that you want but you're consistently doing it in the long run that's the person who wins if we're thinking about life and health in the big picture um and i've always encouraged my clients to think about don't even just become hyper focused on the gym like obviously we could go down the road of talking all the lifestyle things but like do you walk every day do you spend time in nature like that's all the big picture yeah and then you're gonna have days where your lifts are great and you're like i crushed i got a pr then you're gonna have days where like you know it's all right i remember dan john saying to me once we were talking he was like out of every 10 workouts you're gonna have like two that are freaking great

you probably have like six that are okay and then you might they probably have two that are like pretty crappy right and but that's probably pretty good if you can have that that over a lifetime but you're always getting those workouts in that's probably better i actually don't even try to have the great ones yeah and or the bad ones and just do 10 okay ones yeah like i just don't really like that's that's that's a mindset that i've had to like really work instead of trying to always have a great one why don't i just really focus on showing up and enjoying the process of working out which is like radically shifted one my health like just feeling good so you're not beat to shit all the time um but that's like a it's a really to get people to show up every day

is like really the hard part of trainers. When you guys, like there's so many pieces of the internship process that I'm interested in. Do you guys talk about communication in the process? Like how do we communicate to our clients exactly what we would like? Because, man, that's a really tough skill to develop when you're a 23-year-old trainer trying to look at this as a profession. Yeah, that's the biggest piece. That's the most important piece is the communication. And,

and I'll take, when I came in as I was like pretty introvert, I'm still, I would say I'm like an introvert, even though like most of my job is speaking and talking and things like that. But you learn how to perform and you learn how to be that person as a coach or as an educator, whatever you might be. And some of the interns today,

we're talking about that. Like how, how do you learn to start a conversation? Like when you have an adult client who's been coming here for 10 years and now you're a new intern on day one, like this is their, they're starting today. Right. And they have to go out there and start trying to help coach these people who would be like, I've been coming here since you were in middle school.

Like, uh, like how are you going to start? And it's, it's just about people skills. Like start, like, don't talk to them about their goblet squat. Talk to them about like, oh, you have a shirt from this town. Oh, I've been there before. Or start i like don't talk to them about their goblet squat talking about like oh you have a shirt from this town oh i've been there before or oh like just talking about their life yeah then they'll let them coach you so it's about teaching them about learning to build relationships first sometimes we and we always get them we'll have someone in this group who is like they just went to some college they have their degree in this and the first thing they're going to march out there and they're going to go try to tell some uh 50 year old guy who just got off work like that he

needs to like change something about how he's stretching this guy's going to tell him to go screw himself right so i did an internship with the carlotta rockies back in 2006 and first day of spring training they basically told us not to talk about training with anybody yeah they go these guys don't give a shit about what you know about lifting weights you can know everything doesn't matter like they only care if they like you just just go out make friends yep that's it that's it and we always tell the interns don't try to coach the pros just like don't like you can talk to them just don't try to coach them like because they're not they they'll they'll ask you to coach them eventually if you guys or if you're nice and that you guys make friends but

don't try to go because they've already been coming here they know the deal they know you're an intern and they'll respect you if you just build a relationship. And that's really true with the adults. Like you can get away with the younger kids, not the ones who've been here for a while because they're pretty sharp. They start to kind of know that, like, you're new. But you've got to build relationships first. And then once you have that, it's really easy because they'll let you in to coach them.

Do you enjoy watching when they try to go coach them? Yeah. Because, like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, like oh no no no no no no don't do that oh you're doing it yeah i like the teachable moments when you can see the teachable moments out there i'm like right here we go now i love it we would have pro athletes in our gym and like you'd see somebody come over and be like oh yeah when you're doing the clean like make sure you get your elbows higher the guy's like shut up please stop please like and they're always really nice about it but you can see like no no no no please stop please they

don't care about that yeah and even the high school kids now are sharp enough to like know the interns or coaches who are new so they'll and they'll really give it to them like high school kids don't care yeah so yeah i'd like that because then for me it's like a time that i can intervene and talk to them and then they get better from the process. But I get a laugh out of it. Yeah. How do you guys implement some of the nutrition stuff into the internship program? That's the hardest part probably is like the lifestyle and nutrition education.

More or less, it's not hard for us to teach the interns. It's hard for us to get it through and educate, especially the high school kids, in a way that's effective. It's probably from you guys to the interns is one lesson, and then how you teach it to people that don't care is the next lesson. The adults are captive.

For the high school kids as well, they're not really oftentimes in full control of their meals. It's like you have to coach the family in addition to the kid. On top of that question is how do you talk to the parents about their kid that's eating pasta every single night for dinner? Yeah. So like adults are easy because it's a captive audience if it's about their health and their weight loss. So like with the adults, you can pull them aside. They care.

They take notes. They'll do follow-up questions. Like they care. The kids, like you, we overestimate how, how much like we think they know. They don't really know anything. It starts with us being like, this is what constitutes a protein. This is what constitutes fat. They don't know what is in their food. So you have to start really basic. We give these handouts being like, this is these.

They don't teach that stuff in school? No, no. Me and Galvin gave a big talk to a bunch of high school kids out in California a couple years ago. And we talked for like five minutes about creatine. Me and Galvin gave a big talk to a bunch of high school kids out in California a couple years ago. And we talked for like five minutes about creatine. And then at the end of the creatine talk, someone goes, what's creatine? And we're like, oh, shit. Never mind.

We didn't say that part, did we? Yeah, yeah. The assumption of knowledge was too high. It was a football team. We figured they knew. Yeah, they're pretty clueless. So you've got to start really basic. And then you have to try to find – I always try to find a question they have or a problem they have. Because if you can speak to something that's bothering them, like I had an athlete last week,

and she was saying how she's low energy and everything. So I'm like, okay, well, let's just talk about what she ate today. And she hadn't eaten anything. So I'm like, oh, yeah, she was complaining how bad she felt. I'm like, okay, well, this is why, right? So then I'll immediately just start trying to food log with them. Like, let's just take a look every day and pick one thing to get better at. Because, again, they don't even understand, like, what is a protein and what is a carb.

If you try to give them, like, a whole meal plan, like, it's hopeless. So I'm like, well, today why don't you text me a picture of everything you eat? Like, and I don't care. I'm not judging you about the a picture of everything you eat? And I don't care. I'm not judging you about the quality. I just want to know. I don't even know where we are in the process. And kids don't have them write anything down on pen and paper. They're not going to do it.

Not in 2019. So they have their phone. I'm like, text me a picture just every time you eat. And it's funny because last time they think it's funny when they send it to me. And then I'll be like, all right, let's pick one thing to get better at. Let's do that for a week or two. Just one habit. Like, for instance, you just didn't eat breakfast at all. And then you ate one thing at all right, let's pick one thing to get better at. Let's do that for a week or two. Just one habit. Like, for instance, like you just didn't eat breakfast at all.

And then you ate one thing at lunch and then you came to work. That's not enough. Do that for a week. Let's pick something else. Right? And that's the way I found it to be effective is if you food log and then pick a habit. Pick the most egregious one, like the thing they're the worst at. And then to build it over time and over time.

And over time, they can good pretty good habits that way but they usually say it takes a couple weeks to build a habit so i tend to take a slow slow walk uh with them that way how often do you see kids come in here at 11 years old and then next thing you know they're 21 and they're still here that's i mean i've been here long enough now for that to happen yeah it's kind of crazy and it's even cooler when they start working here. Like, I've had some kids who were kids, and then they were like, they could go through high school and they get into college, and then they want to intern.

I'm like, oh, I must have done a half-decent job. Like, if you want to work here. Well, I mean, that's, like, a real thing. Because, like, in strength and conditioning, it's a full education, right? Like, you start with, like, what's a protein, what's a squat, and then 10 years later all of a sudden just because you've been in this room for a decade yeah you have this like incredible knowledge of your body and the processes that go on in it how to get stronger how to eat

well how to like have a mindset because you're professional athletes in here and it's a crazy education that kids can get just by being in a gym where there's just an elevated education program that people are going through like it's in a way what physical education supposed to be in schools that they just don't ever get yeah yeah that's that's 100 true and i feel like we try to create a culture here where parents feel good leaving their kids here. We want to create a culture in an atmosphere where, one, everyone feels welcome and that they want to keep coming back. And that over time, yeah, they feel like this is their third place. They have work or school and home, and then they have here.

And I think if you do a really good job, you have people who, yeah, if sports don't work out, and for most people it doesn't, that they think this is a viable option. The majority of people like go to college, they get their job, and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, I've got to get in shape. And what you're doing is you're trying to unravel time and get rid of all the junky habits that people have taken over the last decade that they just didn't know were junkie habits if you can start at 11 and by 16 years old somebody knows what full like macro breakdown is of a meal like holy shit you're way ahead of the game when it comes to health like you can't unlearn that yeah and the goal is when for most adults is to unlearn just crappy habits that they've picked up over the years but in dealing dealing with older people, like, what do you do with parents? Parents have to be awful. Because in a way, if you tell them nutrition's bad for their kid, you're telling them they don't know what they're doing.

Yeah. And again, it's like baby steps in education, seeing where your little, your windows of opportunity are to educate. And it's the same with the nutrition as is about the training. Cause you've got parents who like, they think they know a lot about training or they think they know a lot about nutrition. And it's about how do I begin to educate them so it trickles down to the kid in the right way. So, again, like, if I look, if I try to find a problem from a nutrition standpoint, I'd be like, hey, this is what I think, you know, little Johnny or little Kate needs for their meals. Let's sit and talk about, you know about what some better choices can be at home. I've had challenges where there were kids who like – there was a younger kid who really wanted –

they brought him here to lose weight. He was really overweight. But the biggest problem was the parents who were paying for him to come here. I said, I mean, I could train him six days, seven days a week. It's not going to make a difference. He's going to have to move out of his house. Yeah, it was a culture issue in the home. Because you get your habits from your parents.

Like I 100% exercise and take my health seriously because my parents have always done that, right? And so it starts in the home. So honestly, trying to get the parents in here, I mean, it's good for our business, but honestly, getting them to take part in the process too, like into an adult group, I think actually is probably the answer if you're trying to get it to the kids. Do you have families training together in here or are the kids and the parents separate? They're usually separate. But they're all in the same place.

Yeah, they're all around it. We have a lot of entire families that come here just maybe at different times or in different groups and things like that. But I think that's the ultimate goal from a business standpoint, but for a health standpoint, obviously for the families too. Once you graduate from the internship program, how do you guys move them into as a part-time full-time position? Yeah, it really depends on what one, what's our need for hiring.

And the good thing for them recently is we've had a lot of need for hiring. Like we'll be like, Oh, we need to, we need bodies to coach. And if we have a need and we have be like oh we need to we need bodies to coach um and if we have a need and we have some people who we think are really good like we'll get together as the staff and be like hey who do you think really fits from one a skill level but also from like a social level like within our our team who fits and then we'll usually you know we kind of have a pulse on who is able to stay or who might be trapped like we have people who come from all over the world so sometimes they're like i know my visa's up i gotta go home right or people who like have other plans to move

back to you know california wherever they're from but um so it's not just local people oh no we get them all over the world for the summer spring yep yeah cool um so but we kind of get a pulse over the time like do they want to stay and if we think they're a good fit we'll try to get them in they immediately are going to start coaching groups. There's always opportunity to coach groups because there's just so many. But then we try to get them doing personal training and small group training and things like that up and running as soon as they can because then from a financial standpoint, they can be a little bit more stable. So for me, it's actually good when I talk about taking people from transitioning

from a rehab standpoint. My schedule is full. I can't take anybody else. I'm traveling all the time. I usually look for these younger coaches and be like, hey, I got someone for you. The second I see someone I'm trying to transition over there, I try to feed them to these younger coaches here to start to get them stable financially

and fill them up along with doing their group classes. How much flexibility do you guys have in the template that you roll out because personal training one of the best things that happens in personal training is like you got to deal with individual people's junk like it's not really a template one size fits all that you can put into a group setting that like everybody kind of does it um how how yeah i mean getting people how much flexibility do you guys have in that system? I think once you're at the point where you're taking personal training clients here, Mike gives you a lot of leeway to kind of make decisions, right?

And obviously the amount that you get is going to grow as the time you've been here, right? Like I've been here long enough that it's just, you know, you do whatever because you're within the walls and within the beliefs of what we do here at Grand Jarre. When they first start out, I always say, like, here, I said, take the template of, like, our typical adult program, screen them, and let's sit down and talk about programming together. So, like, I'm actually going to meet with a couple of the younger coaches tomorrow and help them with programming, right? So, and they get a good education on, like, fms and all that stuff in the internship process but like you said the the big part of personal training is being able to zero in and program specifically for that population and that's that's a skill that and an art like it's it's an art and a science together to be able to do that because some people are harder like personal training

clients can be hard to deal with they have expectations and personal beliefs and things as well and you have to cater to those while also staying within your steadfast like belief system right so um and we have people who are here for long periods of time like it's not just training but it's entertainment like the they they come 52 weeks a year for years at a time it's like how do you do that so you know i say build an adult take the adult template figure out what their goals are right that's going to be one thing. What do they want to train for? What are the things that we believe in?

What does their screen and their assessment say? And then how do we put all those things together and make it work? And sitting down with the young staff, we talk about, like, how do you do that? And then after you do it for a while, you kind of figure out what it is, right, and how to make it work. And even within our adult groups, we write a template, right? We do a year-long program that we kind of write that Vinny's done a really good job with. And then even within that, every person who's training kind of does something different if you watch the group because of our progression-regression model that we use.

Like one person's swinging, one person's deadlifting, one person's hinging, one person's goblet squatting, but that might still be A1 in the first block depending on what their goals are or what their movement quality is. You've been here doing this a decade now. Man, they're probably ready for you to get the hell out of here so someone can take over a high level job. Where do they, they've been here five, six years. Do they move to the group classes? Are they just working with pro athletes?

Where is the big career potential for them? Because if you don't leave, no one's getting promoted to Kevin Carr status. That's the challenge of having a private business. You're like A-Rod hanging out at third base, dude. You just sit over there and the guy in AAA is like, fuck, what do I do? I'm just going to hang around.

Well, that's the challenge of having a private business strength condition if you look around the industry and see people with like businesses uh like mbsc right the challenge is how do you create um uh more income stream for people and also how do you create new challenges for people because once your schedule is full right you're trading dollars for hours personal training or doing groups and you're like all right i'm working these hours. I'd like to probably work less hours, or I'd like to just have a change in what I do. It's about creating more experiences and more income stream. And luckily for us, um, things like certified functional strength coach has allowed other experiences for our coaches, right? So it may be, it was initially just Brendan and myself and Kevin

Larrabee when we first started teaching these courses. Is he still here? No, he moved along. But so the three of us started teaching them together, right? And then now we have Vinny and Dan and Steve and Ken when he was here. And like Damien and all these people now going out and teaching these courses. So for them, now they take on a role as an educator, right? So that's more income stream. They get to practice public speaking and starting to do this. So now they level up to there, right?

So we're now trying to move on all these coaches who are still full-time coaches for us in the gym to become CFSC coaches and educators about what we do here. And that has allowed us to try to keep people around and continue to challenge them and help them grow as professionals at the same time. Right on. We're going to take a... Oh, go ahead. You got it. After the break. After the break.

Doug Clarkson is taking us to break. After the break, I want to talk about mental toughness and what you guys do for mindset training. Absolutely. Cool. I want to talk about CFSC, too, because I've taken it and seen it grow over the years. It's really cool. So we'll be back.

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I know where they're at. Theonetonchallenge.com. Go put your PRs. I want to see. Good to go. Welcome back to Barbell Shrugged. Doug Larson, take it away. Yeah, I was really wondering what you guys do as far as a structure

or a curriculum for teaching mental toughness. Is there aspects of manufactured optimism or positivity or self-talk or anything like that that you guys teach to both kids and adults i'm a i'm a pretty firm believer that a lot of the mental toughness that we teach kids here or adults here is really about the discipline about doing all the other little things really well i think like a big part of discipline is obviously seeing the optimism and everything i know brennan a great post on that um so a lot of it's in just the conversations that we have but then like do you show up on time every day?

Because that's hard to do mentally. Do you put your sheet away and clean up after your group every day? Do you speak respectfully to everyone? Do you help clean up? Are you organized? All those little things that we harp on with high school kids on a daily basis, helping the other kids in spotting

and all that type of stuff, I think that's mental toughness. That's discipline right there. If you can instill those habits all that type of stuff, I think that's mental toughness. Like that's discipline right there. And if you can instill those habits in the kids that come, I think that those kids become adults, right? And we say like good athletes and good kids become more employable adults as they get older. And teaching them that like, hey, we don't cut corners. We run all the way to the line all the time.

Like that is mental toughness. And that's where I think a lot of people like strength coaches or people looking at sports on the outside didn't get it messed up where they think like mental toughness is by burying people into the ground and and crushing them in a workout but like anybody can you don't have to be mentally tough to do that you just have to keep running right and or you can be really fit that doesn't necessarily make you disciplined right and i think when when people get it screwed up they think like, someone made a mistake or we need to instill mental toughness in this team. Like, no, you have to instill a whole culture that cares about discipline and being respectful and being organized.

Like that to me is mental toughness. And then from an optimism standpoint, like I'm always talking like you work obviously as a trainer. You guys know like you're not just a trainer. You're like a therapist from a psychological standpoint as much for adults as you are for kids. Like, I have conversations that are all over the board that I'm like, did I really think I was going to go to school and this is what I was going to be doing? But, yeah, helping them see, you know, the optimism and everything. And I'm a big fan of, like, I've read, like, Seneca and all that's the stoicism. Marcus Aurelius is, like, trying to get them to understand those types of kind of beliefs.

So when kids come and talk to me about like, oh, like school's terrible or like I'm not going to prom with this person, I'm like, realize like life's a lot bigger than this. Right. And having that's the mental toughness conversation I probably have more than anything with high school age kids or even just adults, adults my own age. Do you guys have coaches coming in here like the youth coaches or high school age kids or even just adults adults my own age do you guys have coaches coming in here like the youth coaches or high school coaches coming in or is there kind of like a wall up of this is our space and as you talk about kind of the discipline side of things i there's i've i've had conversations in the past of like what is the responsibility of a strength coach if if the coach comes to you and says, run them until they're dead today,

you're like, that's not really my job. That's not where I'm supposed to be. If he screwed up in practice or in the game, you handle that. I'm supposed to make him strong. Yeah, we set boundaries pretty early, both with parents and with coaches. There's a lobby.

That's where you can stay. I'm not going to come into your house and tell you stay um i don't i'm not going to come into your house and tell you how to parent i'm also not going to come onto the field or into your locker room and tell you what to do there i might have beliefs about it just like you might have beliefs about this but uh we're going to keep them separate and we'll communicate like i'm a big fan of like trying to communicate back forth what are your thoughts what are my thoughts but at the end of the day uh it says mbsc yeah you know on the door so um and and again i think obviously a lot of it at least when i deal with sport coaches is

looking for opportunities to educate okay what is the outcome that you want your kid wants to be faster let me tell you let me tell you why foot speed is not the answer let me tell you why getting the kids stronger is probably the answer because usually those are the types of things we're dealing with or hey i think they need to run more. Well, you're running them five days a week right now, and the kids seem tired, so here's why maybe that's not a good idea. And I think, again, we talked about the communication piece, about teaching interns to communicate.

That's something you learn here as a skill as you get better. Mike is really good at that, about being able to, they say, speak coach and be able to talk to them in the words that they want to hear, like learning a little bit about their sport, like soccer. For instance, like soccer, sometimes those coaches can be difficult, right, because they're scared of lifting weights. But we've actually had a lot of success with the local soccer programs because we've learned to speak sport. Like, hey, did you know a certain percentage of goals,

I don't remember what it is i have to look it up is offset plays and why it's important for athletes to be able to jump and get headers um and why acceleration is so important um not necessarily running distance for soccer right i think a lot of soccer coaches think long slow distance is the answer but if you actually look at the data the majority of the game is spent walking or light jogging and then the big scoring plays come off when the sprints happen right so like getting them to understand that hey actually it's sprinting and lifting not necessarily running 10 miles that's going to make your athlete better when you learn

how to speak that language to them then they start to like okay this guy actually knows what he's talking about right so a little bit of research on our end is helpful in getting our beliefs across to them effectively do you guys have sports specific coach or coaches in here like that's the soccer guy that's the yeah almost just from a marketing standpoint yeah um like we have all our bios on the site like you can see like like for instance tia played professional soccer in europe and like scott um he trains the usa judo team and he's with, he's trained Jiu Jitsu. Like he's with all the fighters. And, you know, sometimes it's because they like that niche. Yeah.

But also sometimes it's because like the parent or the coach looks on the site and it's like, hey, I want to be with this person because of their background. Yeah. Right. And that's fine. If it gets them in the door, that's what it's all about. Right. Because once they're in here, I think they're going to be in the the boil world uh regardless they're all following the same program too they just don't know yeah yeah they just don't know you're gonna hinge you're gonna squat you're gonna push at the end of the day we're here to make it we're here to make you

better but they have to be here long enough to learn that yeah they don't know that just from looking at the website totally they think i want to go hang out with the hockey guy, the hockey girl. That's awesome. I love it. It is really. Trick them. Yeah, you've got to do what you've got to do to get them in the door. And trust me, I'm trying to give you the best thing for you,

but sometimes you've got to give them the ice cream so they'll take their medicine. Yeah. How long have you been doing the functional strength coach, sir? Like five years now. Time flies, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, cert like five years now time flies yeah yeah yeah just over five years and that's been a cool process because it's helped it's forced us to refine our systems even you know sharper because it's one thing when like we're delivering it to the athletes but when

you're delivering it to other coaches it makes you actually even go through on more of a fine tooth comb and it's been really good for us from a system standpoint. I find those certifications, like where do people in their journey, are you guys getting more of like the beginner coach that's coming to you guys? I took mine after being a trainer for eight years. So walking in, I was kind of like anytime I go to one of those things or learning from other coaches i'm looking for not even looking for things but just kind of like letting the information absorb and like watching you guys present but it was a really cool process i really enjoyed the the online

piece before showing up there so we didn't have to spend a whole bunch of time on like these like in my world or what in my brain like extremely basic concepts just laying out the structure and we got to do a lot more of the tactical like hands-on pieces of coaching which i think a lot of places really don't have when it's like we're training coaches yet nobody's coaching in the certification yeah um were you there at the very beginning of launching launching the course yeah yeah and when we put it together that was exactly what we said we wanted to do. We said, listen, we want to get as much of the philosophical stuff and the basic groundwork covered from the online content first. So that when they come in, we can devote every minute almost of that day is practical application.

Because that's what was a glaring thing that we thought was missing in the industry and it's funny we see people we see a pretty vast population like pretty wide from like people who aren't even through school yet and have never coached a single person or people who are just interested we have a lot of people who are just enthusiasts who like i want to learn how to program and coach myself or coach like my friends or my kid better i'm like that's cool that's great to people who are really experienced like yourself who had already been coaching for a long period of time um and that's what i think is really good because i the instructors can kind of when they have their interactions with you take it down to okay this is the fine fine detail or let's look at the big picture with someone who's more more introductory as long as at the end of the day we want to see can you demonstrate can you

cue and can you adjust effectively and that's been the biggest thing that's missing in this industry and this was really born out of the fact that we when we take on interns what they have our coaches we what they have for a certification for us as long as they have something wasn't really a big deal to us because at the end of the day we're like as far as we're concerned your practical education we don't even know what that is until we have you out here. And we're going to make it to what we want it to be when you go through our internship process. So we want to be able to package that into certification because people were asking Mike for it for years. And he was saying, like, I just don't really believe in doing it.

Like, I believe in the internship process. So we sat down and said, okay, how can we put this into a day and try to give them all that philosophical stuff before and then pet Dylan. When you say the philosophical stuff, like what are the, what are like the base principles there? You may have already said some of them, but we go through our, our basic training philosophy for adults and for athletes in lecture. We go through Mike's entire advances in functional training. That's the textbook and go through like the explanation of the joint by joint and our basic coaching and communication how do we talk to people and how do we intervene

so they go through all that and do an online exam based on that material before they ever even show up at the practical course so there should be a a base level of like the education and kind of the structure of our program like you were saying like some people might not be familiar with like what our program is, right? How do we look at training? Then when they show up, it's like, this is how I'm going to coach it. This is how I'm going to work around things. This will make it easier, harder, and kind of the actual face-to-face communication of it.

You got some good, easy-to-follow, one-page templates for your programming toward the back of that Advances in Functional Training book that I think are really intuitive and easy to understand if someone wants to go look those up that piece of what you just said the intuitive and like easy to understand you guys really instill that like there i had been training people for like eight years and if you would ask me to lay out the program it would have gone into this like speed and power and then we lift and then we're doing conditioning and then each of the pieces of all that it would have probably confused the shit out of somebody that like didn't have you know 10 15 years of training background and language and all these things and when i took like in the very first lecture that boyle gives it was like our basic function inside our program is to not injure people and I was like

wait a second nobody else is saying that like everybody just starts with I'm here to get you stronger but nobody's talking about the fact that like if we hurt you in the process we failed and I'm always blown away by a process or an explanation that is like somebody's actually thought about like what is the simplest way of explaining what i do like yes we can make you stronger and faster and bigger and all these things and teach you nutrition and macros and how to do everything in the gym but my basic function is to make you live a better life 100 and that was something that came out of that where it was like, it probably took him 40 years of understanding what we do in here to like, come up with like, wait a second. Like the thing that we do the most is not hurt people and help them not get hurt in real

life. Yeah. And he'll even say, he's like, he, I've heard him say to me, like, I've sifted through the shit for 30 years to figure out how to do it the right way. Um, and we're still figuring out how to do it. We're still doing that process. Like I've seen the program change in the time that I've been here pretty drastically actually. And that's from trial and error. Like we said, again, going back to that process of, okay, can we slice it thinner?

Is there a better way to do things? And over time, like you said, it focuses on number one health. Like if I get you hurt, it doesn't matter, right, about making you bigger, faster, stronger, or whatever. So we always say, one of the three goals of any program, we say, number one, avoid training-related injuries. Number two, reduce competition-related injuries or, like, life-related injuries. So it doesn't have to be an athlete. Competition could just be, like, you, you know, gardening in your yard.

And number three, then improve performance or improve uh aesthetics or whatever it might be but that has to be secondary or third to those other ones because if you get hurt it doesn't i know plenty of athletes that look great and when they're on a good day or can jump through the roof but they're just hurt all the time because of a lot of the other choices they they make yeah it's kind of like the joint by joint approach like it's so obvious when you hear it it's like of course we should be training people that way but it probably took them 40 years to figure out that we this is this is the process to actually doing it um do you have any of those like breakthroughs now where when you're coaching people or you're like something just kind of like clicks you're like

whoa like i've gotten to this point where like now I'm seeing things through this like much more clear lens after however many certifications and athletes that have come through here. Do you still have these moments? 100%. And it's like everybody says, like things, it keeps coming back to simplicity. Like more and more and more as i've been doing this in in both settings now for for years and i think teaching has helped because when you have to teach it repeatedly it helps you simplify simplify but i'm starting to again continue to go back to like okay make it more simple make it more simple because then your your your percentage goes up like

essentially your free throw percentage goes up the simpler you make it the more effective we continue to be um and and that's i keep having those revelations i hope you know i'm if mike can keep doing it you know 40 years in the process i'd hope that that i can continue to have those moments right yeah the um when you guys started to expand internationally because you're headed overseas um how does the process change or the conversation change? Do you notice anything just like being in this area? You guys are clearly the leaders. So the majority of your network has bought into what you're doing. The people that are coming to your search are bought in a little bit, at least to the name and what you guys have, the information you guys are putting out. When you

get into other countries, do you start to notice a lot of changes or like different ways that you need to speak to people and just culturally shift the conversation yeah it could be it could be challenging depending on where you are because you don't know sometimes where that culture is on the spectrum um of like education and and what their influences have been sometimes you kind of know but you go somewhere sometimes and you're like, okay, I need to take this way back and make it more simple. Or, hey, you're really over-focused on one thing. Like sometimes I'll go to Europe and they'll be very focused on like very minor details.

Like, no, exactly what angle is your foot when you squat? I'm like, it doesn't really matter. The comfortable one? Yeah, exactly. No, no. So, and again, at the end of the the day you go back to the idea of relationships when i start to be able to build some relationships in these courses with people then the doors open because then you when you go to these other countries there's a whole nother barrier of language like sometimes a lot of times i'm teaching this next

week these next two weekends i'm teaching through a translator right i've done that yeah it's wild right yeah like speak and wait that takes that takes like a that's like i went down to brazil and ran a seminar down there it was like a three day and it's like you got in a really good rhythm of like i say two sentences then they go but it takes like a whole day and a half before you get a flow with your translator to even be able to like get the portuguese out oh yeah yeah sometimes you say you'll say like two sentences and all of a sudden there you feel like they're talking for five minutes you're like today what i said it's called a squat yeah just say squat and so yeah i mean it's really about getting a you have to get a

feel for the people there and and and takes time. And everywhere is different. Like I've had some times where I'm like, oh, that was really easy. And sometimes I'm like, oh, man, that was freaking hard. Coming from the CrossFit space, like it's really interesting going. Like when I went to Brazil, it was like five years ago or something. And it was like, man, York, I feel like it would actually be awesome to hear like what countries you think are kind of like on the same page as us. Because I think strength conditioning in the it's maybe it's just because of

the bubble we hang out in but we have a pretty good conversation about it yeah and then when i went to brazil it was like whoa like this is way behind like we have got to really simplify this conversation down because there's just nobody was really talking about olympic lifting or like just basic energy system work like there was like stuff that i think is pretty normal here in the conversations that i have was way advanced down there and i'm sure you run into that all the time yeah absolutely and that and that get that goes back to me going to have the revelations about making it more simple. Yeah.

Because I'm like, I need to make this digestible not only to somebody who has maybe never heard this concept, but then also someone who doesn't speak English. So how can you make it even easier so it goes through a translator and they catch it? And I think if you can do that, then you're doing pretty good. But, I mean, there's some countries, like when I go to germany i teach there a lot they're pretty much they're pretty on it yeah and you get that's a pretty good hub for getting people all over europe that go there for courses but there'll be some places where you're like yeah they're like they're 10 more than 10 years behind and and it's not necessarily a fault of their own because if the stuff's written here you guys

has to be trained that book has to be translated and sent there. And what's been really helpful for us is Mike has done a good job now. His books have been translated. These guys in Hungary, they've had the book now for two years. So now I can kind of expect, I think when I go here next week, they're going to at least probably have a basic idea.

Whereas if you go places where the supporting literature is not translated, I mean, not everyone's getting it off the internet. Like some people are, a lot of people are still buying books, right? So you got to, it really depends on what's been translated on paper. So I hope when I go next week, I'll tell you, we've never done one in Hungary before, but I'll let you know.

What's it like working with Boyle? It's great. It's great. Do you have just regular conversations on that normal day of where you're just like, what, I can't believe I'm just hanging out in here? Mike, the most valuable conversations I have probably are outside of strength and conditioning. Yeah. You realize when you're a young staff, your people are scared of him,

and he's not really. Now that I know him, I don't see him as a intimidated guy. He almost comes across, I felt like when we were talking to him, he was like confused that everybody didn't get it. Yeah. It was like, it's just so simple to me. Like, you just keep going and, like, you're just, like, working out in the gym and then, yeah, joint by joint.

Yeah. And it's like he's just super casual, but everything comes out of his mouth. You're like, wait, can you say that again? Yeah. I think, did you just change all of strength and conditioning in the last three minutes. Like, that was really cool. Yeah, he sees it very simply. And it took a while for me to catch up working here, right?

But then, like, I know you spent time with him. Like, he's a good guy to have a conversation with on all things. Like I said, not just strength and conditioning. He's a good guy to have a beer with, you know? So, yeah, I mean, I work on him most weeks in the massage clinic, too. So, you know, I talk to him on all sorts of things. Once they lay down on the table, it's all out there. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, where's, where do you guys see the, the cert going? Um, I mean, we're continually growing. We got some things we're working on,

like a national accreditation. Um, because you realize like the certification business is like a privatized industry. Um, it's not massage license is a state license, right? But training is like a private industry. So really what is good or what is the gold standard is like, well, what are the most people have? Like what are the most respected people have, right? And then accreditation is really just a process of, you know, having standard procedures that you demonstrate to an accreditation body and then paying the accompanying fees that go with that. The business part. Yeah.

If you give me money, I say you can do things. But, yeah, and there's a lot of accredited certs out there, and that doesn't necessarily mean that, like, the quality of what you might learn is what you or I might deem to be great. It just means that they have standard operating procedures for how they go about things, right? So that's something we're working through now is we're really excited about. And that, because that'll give us access

to more levels of education, like to officially be in schools and colleges and things like that, that we might not necessarily have a reach for now because we're just a privatized business. Speaking of that,

do you get CEUs for doing your cert? Yeah, yeah. So we'll get, we give people a course petition form and they can go to whatever their body is. It's like NSCA has them, right? Yep.

Seeing as your clinic is through the state and your certification is privatized, how do you see some of that? Because that conversation comes up in government now of having it have to be through the government do you i don't even maybe not your opinion or some benefits of each side of that and some drawbacks so it's funny because i've thought about this obviously being in the industry of certifying people and i know the thing that a lot of people as trainers have always worried about is like i don't want the coaches i don't want the state telling me how i should train people or being in charge of my license. But I also, I wonder because it's not like as a massage therapist, they don't tell me how to practice. I just have to pay them to get my license each year.

So, I mean, they just said, hey, this school was good enough for you to go to, which that could affect my business, right? You might have to go through that process. But they just essentially want to collect they just want the check like the they they don't really look at the quality because inside a massage there's a big vast of licensed professional massage therapists in every state and there could be some on this end of the spectrum and some on this end of the spectrum that are doing a good job so they don't necessarily affect your day i've wondered how much it would actually change like it's just who's gonna come in and actually, like, watch my personal training session to be like,

oh, sorry, dude, power clean, we didn't teach you that way. And just, like, as far as the massage business goes, they're not coming in and seeing how you practice. I'll tell you right now, like, they want to see how many sinks do you have in the facility, how far away are they from the treatment room? Is there enough soap dispensers? Is there enough fire exits? That's the stuff that the state looks for because that's easy for them to look at, and they don't need a massage therapist to go to every massage place in the state. So then if you think of transferring that to training, they're going to come and look at,

okay, does everyone have a license that works there? Do you have fire exits? Is it cleanly in there? I don't think they'll be like, hey, you shouldn't program three sets of five. You should program five sets of five. They're not going to come in and do that, at least in my mind. Maybe Big Brother is going to be more. I actually have talked to some people at CrossFit recently

because they spend a lot of money making sure that those licensors don't go through because they're terrified that like the NSEA or whoever it is, this big governing body is going to pay all the money to be the governing body of strength conditioning. And I always just wonder like, would it really shut down the business? Like, I don't feel like you may have to go take an anatomy test before you can be a trainer but i don't feel like your methodology like really changes too much like is that the conversation that we really should be or question we should be asking is like does the government really interfere that much with each individual client or the type of business you're running but if you're not up against it i don't really like you're not allowed to massage the leg like that. Careful.

Careful. Watch your hand. Inner thigh. Because even in the massage, in Massachusetts, there's a massage license in Massachusetts, but there's like eight different schools that you can go through to get your license. And those are private businesses. They just have to ensure that they meet certain standards. For instance, in Massachusetts, it's 750 hours to get your massage license,

and you have to do so many clinic hours. So to be a school in this state, you need to have those guidelines. So that is really what I think they probably need to go through. And then there's a massage board of people who help make those decisions for the state that get recruited to that board. What is 750 hours? Is that a year? Yeah, something like that. Was your program average?

Was it 18 months, you said? It was supposed to be 12, but Brandon and I stretched it out because we were working full-time. I was here. Because you're in college. You've got to do it. Sorry, guys. Extra six months.

Yeah, yeah. You can't leave early. It's like the best part of the year, leaving at 9 o'clock. Is your program, is a year a normal amount of time? Yeah, a year and then some states like I believe New York is 1,000 hours

and I think they might have a state test where some places like Massachusetts is just 750 hours that you have to make sure you complete the curriculum and graduate from the school. Everywhere is different. I think Vermont doesn't even have a licensure program. You don you can just have you don't need a license so like it's start rubbing yeah don't matter yeah so i think that that's the big thing is like there there's inconsistencies across and i don't know if that's an answer you'll ever have right but i think the more we work towards

creating quality professionals and allowing some artistry inside of that is okay yeah i think that that that's the root and the heart of what makes people really good is doing it their own way inside certain standards so someone who knows as much about soft tissue work as you do you mentioned that the very first thing that uh that the kids do or whoever does every day here is like they foam roll they do then they do their mobility work and the dynamic warm-ups and power work and whatever else um in your mind how similar is what you guys do with manual therapy to something like foam rolling are they a world apart are they kind of same same but different yeah there's there's definitely an overlap if you're looking at a venn diagram and i think the big picture is that that make everybody

understand whether it's massage or foam rolling is what's actually happening when we do it i think there's a big misconception of what's going on under the skin, right? What's the terminology that people always use when they foam roll or they get a massage? Like, I need you to break up these adhesions or I need you to get this knot out. But it's important to show like the research doesn't actually support that we actually make a physical change in the tissue where there's like things that are being broken apart. And when you think intuitive, like you actually start to think like, okay, that makes sense because we get changes very quickly. It's a neurological change that happens. So I think it's actually more similar than we used to think, right? Like when someone,

if someone comes on the on the table, and their shoulder flexion is like this, right? And then I work on their lat and all of a sudden, their shoulder flexion is like this, like a minute or two later, it couldn't have been a physical change, had to be neurological you can't change it and when i liken it to strength training it makes a lot of sense right like you can get neurological changes in like a week like someone gets stronger in a week that wasn't hypertrophy right that's going to take like six to eight weeks we know that it's the same thing the tissue laws are the same and so foam rolling it just gives us a temporary window of opportunity to move better so we can create physical change in the tissue from active stretching and from strength training and things like that. So I think it's actually fairly similar.

I just think a professional can get into areas and apply force in directions that are a little bit more specific and pick the areas to work and then set you up to do all those other things. Like I said, the active stretching and the strength training to help keep those changes. Right. And, and that's my mission is always to try to educate people about like what's actually going on because I think foam rolling and massage is such misconception because it's such like an Eastern medicine thing, not really like a Western thing. It's not, there's not as much research until recently to support what is actually going on as opposed to like what everybody has always said is going on. Right. When you, you mentioned earlier, a lot of the, um, a lot of the time that you're telling people just to get back out on the training floor because they need to be fitter, stronger. Um, when you're talking to parents that may be terrified of their kids lifting weights,

how do you start to kind of define strength to them and get them to understand the actual benefits that their kids are going to see from being strong? Yeah, and I have a really good story about this, actually. I had a kid come in. This had to be like eight years ago now. And he came in with like back pain. He was like a 14, 15-year-old kid. The big thing was he had grown about 10 inches in a calendar year so he had a growth spurt like crazy this kid he's tall thin kid he's not even seeing properly is no yeah up here down here where are you going dude yeah

yeah goofy and lanky now yeah the mom the mom was like he needs to stretch he needs to stretch he's got like chronic pain he can't, like, not playing sports. He couldn't touch his toes. Arms couldn't go over his head. And in my head, I'm like, oh, this kid's not strong enough for any of his levers. Yeah. And so we'll do, like, we'll do or obviously going to do stretching in the program. So it's good when you see that, that we did it.

But at the end of the day, he got that. That was helpful. That was a part of the big picture. But the fact that he got some core strength and got some leg strength and got some upper body strength like that's why he didn't have back pain and that's why he was able to go back to sports so getting them to understand like we always say training is a recipe not a menu a menu like you need you can't pick and choose what you want it's the whole thing that makes a difference i think if i pulled one thing out of the process that kid's outcome would

not have been as optimal as it was right um and the big thing is like now that whole family trains with us like the mom's like oh i see like because she was worried she was a worried parent was like i don't think he should be lifting weights but i heard that you guys are good at getting people together so i'm gonna bring him here but i really think he needs to stretch i'm like oh yeah we're gonna stretch we're gonna stretch yeah we're also gonna do all these other things because generally like strength training still as a whole i would almost assume is not seen like if somebody says like i need to get in shape like yoga pilates like those things are still they're great tools but strength training is like you gotta have that piece to it

yeah and i think part of it is as strength coaches or personal trainers positioning yourself and thinking of yourself as a medical professional because you are. And I always say, like, I think some people have, like, they hear personal trainer and they, like, think, like, oh, this guy's a bozo with, like, a tank top and a clipboard, right? And, I mean, obviously, a lot of us haven't done ourselves favors by how people perceive us. I think you have to position yourself as someone who carries more on their shoulders than, you know, the typical, you know, Joe Schmoe trainer. That person still is out there. Oh, they are. They're all over the place.

I train in Globo gyms, and they drive me nuts. And my job at CFSC is to convert these guys. That's what we guys and girls, like, we, they come in, and, like, I'm like, okay, I see where you are now. And I'm going to move along. Do you see the clip or run? Yeah. Run. Yeah. Run. Most of your coaches, not trainers, your coaches, they know what strong looks like.

They know what the weights look like based on your body type most of the time. You don't need a clipboard to remember all the crap. I can look at you. You probably pick up like 135 pounds. Like, I know what it looks like. And so, like, if you have the mindset of, like, okay, I'm a medical professional, and you communicate that to the people that come in, whether that's a parent or the client themselves, I think it makes it easier for them to see, okay, this person is going to use weights as a tool, like a doctor would use anything that they might use as an intervention to help this person get better, right? Because you are in the, I always say, like, you're in the best position to create change

in these people's lives as a trainer, right? Like, I think they took a survey. They said the average person sees their doctor, like, four times a year and realized that's, like, really skewed, right? Because there's people who, like, who don't see their doctor at all. There's a lot of people who never go to the doctor. We're only going tomorrow because we got a hookup. Yeah, Right?

But, like, the average healthy person doesn't go because it's sick care. It's not health care. You don't go. You're not like, oh, I want to go to my doctor and see, like, what should I do for exercise. I actually went in. Last time I went into, like, a doctor that was not a strength and conditioning doctor, he looked at me, and he was like, so what kind of goals?

I was like, I'm going to live until 120, and I'm going to squat 315 when I was 80. And he just looked at me. He's like, well, you're probably just gonna fall into like whatever your parents did yeah like oh great that's the message like you can't even have like a fun conversation about health like you're just gonna tell me i'm a victim of my genetics and this is what i'm stuck with yeah and the whole thing is like they're not even good believe it almost like i almost like i almost don't even put on them because the system isn't set up for them to be healthcare people. They're set up to give you like medicine and try to put you to some sort of treatment, right?

Whereas then you look at – think of this. If you're seeing a personal trainer and you go twice a week and you show up 80% of the time, that's 100 visits a year. So who stands to have a bigger impact on your health, right? So in my mind, I'm like, you are the first round of health care. Like think about if you train people, what do people ask you? I have clients ask me questions, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that. But I'll try to find you an answer, or I'm going to direct you to somebody who can. Like you need to be.

Do you want an answer or my opinion? Yeah, exactly, right? So one, I think you need to educate yourself. Like I said in my opinion yeah exactly right so one i think you need to educate yourself like i said be a generalist so you can deal with the kid that needs to get more mobile who can use strength training or the adult who needs to work on whatever the lifestyle intervention or stress management whatever it is or at least build a network of people who are like oh well i have a referral for that right i could send you to john or i could send you to a hormone specialist or i could send you sometimes to like a pain psychologist someone

that can help you deal with like the chronic pain issue you have while you also come and see me um and that i think is if you begin to create that culture which i think we're doing a really good job of that here and continually to trying to do a really good job of that here that then people seek to have you as a solution and they trust you because of that uh that you know that vibe that you're putting out there, that culture that you've kind of created. Yeah. You guys have like a really good system, not just movement as medicine. Paloff's next door.

Boyle's got the whole strength and conditioning thing all in this big circle. But where are you guys kind of looking for building your network? Is there specific areas, functional medicine, or things that you guys don't have in here that you're starting to learn become very important? Anything we don't do, I want to make sure we have an answer of someone in the least immediate area. And actually teaching has been really helpful in doing that because you meet all these people who are like, oh my God, you have an answer for me.

And I found that. We recently just brought in a woman of ours, Alda Cosey, who ran the ultrasound for years at a local hospital. And now she's doing live MSK ultrasound here, meaning like we have an iPad and we have an ultrasound and I can see your shoulder. Not like ultrasound for treatment, but ultrasound for diagnosis, right? So you can see like, okay, there's an issue with this client's shoulder. Let's see you move it. We'll go into flexion extension, go into rotation. I can actually see what's happening, which then allows John to make a better diagnosis right on the spot,

which most people aren't doing that. They wait, let you go to PT, and then they're like, then we'll order an MRI or an x-ray, as if that's probably not going to be the best solution. Whereas now, like that's someone who we just brought in like a couple months ago, and now people book appointments here to see her so that we can make that as part of the process so we can really go end-to-end. Diagnostic ultrasounds are fucking dope. Just what you're talking about.

I went one time, and I got PRP injections in my shoulder, and there was a 64-inch plasma TV right in front of me, and I was just watching them with the needle inside my shoulder. And they were like, oh, yep, right there, inject. You could see the whole thing happening in real time. It was fun yeah it's been a game changer already for us to be able to my shoulder exploded look at it you can see it well like scott it's fixed yeah scotty like i said does jujitsu yeah like he doesn't even have a ucl on one of his elbows and we were like all right let's take a look like that was cool if you're able to see like okay that's why it gaps right there like you don't even don't even have that ligament. But, like, having that has been a game changer for us

because we can just send them in there right now, and we can go direct access. Like, they can just pay and have it done, and then we can start the process rather than waiting for the referral process or waiting to get through that for some of these people because that bogs down the process. So the modern health care kind of system kind of bogs everything down yeah i had a third degree ucl my thumb from jujitsu as well my thumb just like fell to the back of my hand i was like that's broken

all right it's supposed to be there i'm gonna go call the ortho in the parking lot you've gone through the power lifting you've got the coaching where a lot is just your training in your head at in i mean you're traveling the world not just the country um food all those pieces like how are you putting this together in your life because that shit's busy as hell right now yeah i mean it that this has made me better dealing with clients because i realized like okay this is the type of life they lead. They're just not doing the fitness piece. They're just doing everything else.

Realizing that, again, it's big picture. Like it's not just – it used to like when I – like I'm still really into training, but it's like you used to be so focused on like, oh, no, I've got to get this day in here. I've got to hit this max this day. And like that stuff's great, and I still have a program I follow. But the big picture like, okay, did I lift a few times this week? Did I get out and do 60 minutes of walking in the woods did I go and I do something that was social that was enjoyable to me that was completely separate from my job like it wasn't a workout right and if you could I think if you do that stuff like if you can check those boxes

every week the health stuff's a lot easier like it's easier to want to go work out when your life is balanced. Now it's given me a more global view of what is health. Okay, am I getting good nights of sleep every night? I'm valuing all the things that when you're younger, again, it takes you until you're older, a little bit older, to start to value these things. Now that I'm in my 30s, okay, this is why this is important. Because when you're in your 20s, it's like like you get a hormonal cheat code sometimes you get through some of this stuff but most of your clients probably are not there or they're dealing with other stressors that don't have to do with like your daily lifting program it's like the rest of their life yeah one of the things that we didn't really sort of touched on when we talked to boyle

but um i was interested in kind of how it's reshaped the program and you were probably here before this stuff was implemented because I think in the like intro day one or the online piece of the CFSC he talks about the breathing aspect and I think the the exact line that's in there he's like I never wanted to admit it but the yogis had it right and implementing that stuff into kind of the adult population how you guys implement it with the kids just how has that shaped a lot of because you've had to change the conversation to put that into the program but um just how has that shifted what you guys are doing here yeah i mean it was one of those things we first did it was like okay how are we gonna do it like are they gonna think it's weird or they're gonna like and the adults love it yeah oh you're

gonna come in you're gonna lay down for a couple minutes and breathe like yeah oh thank god like first thing in the morning and they just got up anyways someone's watching my kids right now and i didn't do nothing yeah yeah and feel good about it yeah exactly it wasn't me being lazy someone told me i could do it yeah yeah like i give you a license to just like lay down for a second yeah they just got out of traffic and they were work all day i'm like just lay down do 20 breaths right and then also just the big thing is we just incorporate it into the things we're already doing like a lot of things can that you already do can be made better by adding like focused respiration and like when you're stretching how do you position your rib cage and pelvis together so that you have a more optimal link tension relationship on the muscles in your hip?

Or when you're doing overhead mobility work, where should you position your rib cage so that you're actually getting the movement out of the places you want from the muscles you want? So like it changed how we looked at all these things pretty drastically from a positioning issue, and then also from a stress management issue, like getting them to be like, okay, before and after each workout, go lay down and do 20 or 40 breaths so that, you know, you figure when you come in where you want to take the stress down so we can lay down the stress that we want and then take the stress back down again through breathing so you can go about your day, right, and getting them to start to value those things more.

And it's been a game changer in our programming. With the kids um you just got to be a little bit more like you got to realize like they're not going to value it right off the bat as much until again you can start to find areas where it becomes valuable to them when i can show them why like oh look how much better your shoulder is going to move when i teach you how to breathe or look how much better your hips going to move yeah and then they can put the dots together yeah i remember the first time i ever ever did feldenkrais and i i didn't know anything about it i thought i my crossfit friend was taking me to this thing and i'm figuring this guy's hardcore crossfitter this is going to be something that's

way more active than it was but the same thing it was like we're lying on our back we're taking our breaths we're like gently rotating side to side and i couldn't have wanted to get out of that room anymore in that moment i was like i want to go fucking squat and i want to go deadlift and i want to go just like do airdyne sprints and this is not where i want to be right now so and i'd imagine if i would have done it even earlier because i was probably late 20s at that point if i was like a 17 year old kid like even more so just like wanting to just climb out of my own skin like i would have been out of there i've got testosterone going and i would like to get off the floor and go lift something heavy. Can we wrestle?

Yeah. When you get the kids out there after this, when we go out there, they're going to do breathing, and some of them will be like, they just – I'm like, can you just shut up for a second while you work on these reps? But over time, they'll buy – as they get in the program and you slowly educate, it's just – again, it's a slow walk just like the nutrition education is. And some kids will move quicker than others. But at the the end of the day it just becomes part of it for them they come a part of it they just they buy into what you do yeah a little bit of your story though like how have you started to i mean not started to but you've really progressed through

the system here and kind of gone from intern to really impacting strength conditioning like as a whole um how has that process just been in your own head of like where's the future growth for you and man it in a way like you're you're training and coaching and laying this foundation for what's going to be the next level or the next generation of college strength and conditioning coaches throughout the entire country um it becomes like a kind of a strange conversation in your own head i would imagine at times yeah i mean and i i realize i've been very fortunate in that like i ended up here like a part of its geography like i grew up maybe 35 minutes away from here um but i've continued to try to recognize like where i am and to look

at the opportunities that i have and then make sure that when i'm outside of here i i recognize what it's like outside of this place because it's a bubble it's definitely a bubble you forget when you're here all the time and i always tell the coaches like take some time to go experience things outside of here and then come back to here because it helps you set the reality in both directions like sometimes you go outside and you're like there's something we're not doing right and you bring it in and bring it in here so right now a lot of my focus is okay how are there what are people doing outside of our bubble because it's easy to put your head down on the sand um that can make us better like we had um was it ken clark and then we had like PRI, the breathing thing with like, that was huge for us.

Like all of a sudden we were like, oh my God, this is all this PRI stuff. And we took, I took PRI courses. We brought Mike Mullen in. And then what we do is we take that person and we keep them in here and try to have them do in-services and it changes our program. So for me, I'm continually thinking about, okay, how can I find really good stuff or find people who are doing something better than us and bring it into our system because I do realize there's a big

trickle-down effect from the things that we do here that affect other people yeah and and sometimes you forget that because realize like every staff meeting that we have is watched by people it gets recorded people subscribe so people listen to things that are said here so now I've started to realize there's some weight in the things I say. And Mike has mentioned this to me as well, that you have to really think about what we're doing and what we're saying because people listen. And so with that, I think it's my responsibility not just to speak responsibly but to go find the best things that we can. Obviously for our program, selfishly, because I want to give the best thing to our clients, but then also to the people that are listening to what we do because it affects strength and conditioning on a grand scale.

Yeah, in a way, I mean, we talked to him about it, but this gym in a way has legitimized the position of strength coach that has taken off in the last, call it, five years and without kind of that certification or this internship program and the ability to take people that want to come here progress them through an actual system and now college strength and conditioning coaches are making half a million dollars a year crazy who would have ever thought that that was possible crazy teach someone how to lift weights and now all of a sudden you've got the guy at Iowa. Chris Doyle. He's a Boyle guy. Yeah, that's exactly.

I didn't remember his name, but that's insane that someone can leave here. And Ben Bruno is hanging out in Hollywood right now. He's the guy that hooked us up. Hanging in the driveway. He's got a few things made out there at that house. Right. You've been out to hang out? Oh, yeah.

He got up in the hills. Oh, man. Hey, man, I'll tell you. I remember when he was working up at North Andover with us, and we were training those middle school kids. But I'll tell you one thing about Ben. He's passionate. You can tell he really cares about the people he works with.

So I think it all goes back to the same thing I said before. I said, I think if you really focus on doing a really, really, really good job and trying to impact the people you're with, then the Chris Doyles, the Ben Brunos, you see those types of successes. Because in history here, like this isn't a profession that you go into to get rich. Like no one does this because they're like – when people – when we do the internship, I say if you're here to make money, like just quit and just go into banking. Like you're not in the right position. But I think if you focus on making a big impact, then the income can happen. And then you talked about the weight of what we're doing and how it affects strength and conditioning. I think that if you think about all that, it can almost become too much.

I think if you focus on, okay, how can I create the best product on a micro level for our clients, right, and do the best job to strengthen condition i can then all of that ripples outwards right and it goes back to the i always talk about the start with why idea um and if you would ask me when i was starting here when i was like 19 20 years old i'd be like yeah i just want to be a strength conditioning coach for like high school or college kids like that's what i wanted to do um and my why i always said was to spread the positive benefits of great coaching and great strength and conditioning to as many people as i can um and that means not just like the immediate benefits of training but like all the life lessons that come with that right and my why is really still that just my how and my what

changes right yeah if you focus on on what like why you really want to do this like now like then i was teaching mentorships. Then I was teaching the CFSC. And now like you're doing all these other things. But it's really the same why. And I think if you stay true to that and you really care about it, then all of a sudden like the opportunities open up. I would have never thought I'd be going to Budapest tomorrow.

Like if you asked me when I was 20, I didn't even know where that was. You get to see that same why through the lens of other people in different countries. And it's like you can see how that specific thing actually just plays a role in other people's lives. We all got to move. We all got to be really good at it. What are you kind of learning? What's like the big area that you're focused on in your own growth?

Or is it, I feel like you guys, we when we asked boyle if he was actually learning about strength conditioning still and he was like oh yeah there's a lot of things we need to learn but where's where's a little most of your focus now is it on the cert and growing that and getting the message out i mean if you're not from a business standpoint like i'm learning how to be a better business person because of the cert because i've had to like like i'm doing a lot of the day-to-day brendan and i are like doing the day-to-day business piece of that so as a businessman that that is driving my interest there and then as like a fitness or health professional like learning how to run a good clinic that actually gets great outcomes that's something i'm really

interested in now because um like that's like my baby here as a business like so like i know a lot of like the x's and o's but like how do i really transfer that to the clients through my staff to really make sure all those outcomes are like they are here right because mike has been successful at mbsc because of systems and things like that like how do you do that in a in a therapy setting because it's going to be a little bit different but i mean there's still going to be some parallels there so um looking at it from that lens. Right. And, and like Mike said, there's from a training standpoint, there's always going to be another leaf that turns over and being like, okay, we can do this better because I I'm sure if you asked people in the eighties, they

were like, Oh no, we got to figure it out. Right. And you're never, you'll never have it figured out. So I'm just continually going down the next rabbit hole to see how can we better deliver the product. I feel like people that go from coaching to the business world are really, really lucky. Because that's so much of what you do as a business owner if you have a team is you're coaching your team. If you have 10 years experience coaching high school, college athletes on how to be healthier and whatnot, then all those same principles transfer over beautifully, like the communication and setting expectations and walking somebody through a predictable process, et cetera, becomes very, very easy because it's in a different setting

and maybe the methods are a little different, the terminology is a little different, the jargon is a little different, it's business, it's not fitness anymore. But I feel very, very lucky that I did so much coaching before I became a gym owner slash business owner. Yeah, huge. I mean, because like you said, the communication piece is everything and like building systems.

And like you said, that once you start to be able to say, okay, if I can do it here, I can do it there. And then just being comfortable, being uncomfortable learning the things about business that like you weren't comfortable learning before. Like you have to be able to be willing. Okay, like i didn't know anything about physiology when i first got into coaching but i learned i learned all the stuff that seemed boring at first but then ended up being really important to my success in programming it's the same thing in business like i didn't know much about like the financial piece i didn't know much about marketing and everything you got to start to just all right i'll put my head in it and figure i'll probably screw up some of it that's fine you screw up in coaching all the time, right?

Definitely going to screw it up. That's fine. If you have a growth mindset like that in anything, I think you'll be successful. And I think people in the fitness industry, at least the successful ones, tend to have that mindset. I want to be better. Do you guys get much pushback anymore on the systems? Or is it pretty much widely accepted as like this thing works? We'll always get pushback, yeah.

I mean, we'll look on social media. Mike Center, follow Mike. You get plenty. You get to see all the pushback in the world. We did see a good argument the other day with him and Mash. We had to call Mash and give him a hard time about it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Leave that guy alone.

Leave Boyle alone. Yeah, like you'll find him anyway. You're a 15-year-old that front squats 500. Come on. You're always going to find pushback. But that's just the way it is. Maybe it wouldn't be any fun if you – It wouldn't be fun if both people weren't completely right. All truths are partial.

Exactly. All models are wrong. We're just trying to be less wrong, right? So it's like. Just two old dudes yelling at each other on the internet. Yeah, that's what it is. Both coaching the best athletes in the world. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. I actually want to sign up and listen to that day. They had their big argument. I know. Did you listen to it? No, no. I was saying I got to listen to that.

I was clearly just telling them that. Yeah. I imagine it was a pretty good conversation. I'm sure it was entertaining. I would love you listen to it? No, no. I was saying I got to listen to it. I was clearly just telling them that. Yeah. I imagine it was a pretty good conversation. I'm sure it was entertaining. I would love to listen to it. Do you guys have many just pure strength athletes in here? Not many. Usually I see them when they're injured.

Hey, like, and, like, they want me to help them deal with something. And we'll work in there and work out there to kind of shoot those things. Like, I have plenty of power lifters or strength athletes across or competitors who come and see me in there. And they'll train at their place. They'll train here. I'll treat them. And it's like a team process to do it. That's really, really when we see them in that context.

When they're injured. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. If someone came to you and they wanted to be a strongman competitor or a powerlifter or weightlifter, they were like, I know a lot of my friends are injured. But I still have these goals. I want to hit these numbers. Like, you know, how would you go about structuring a program for someone that wanted to squat

800 pounds in a gym setting like this? Yeah, you just have to accept those constraints, right? Like we talked about earlier, you know, when you do something competitively, then there's going to be a higher chance of injury. That's just, we know that's to be true. So you accept those constraints. You try to optimize everything that they have from a function standpoint. Like, let's make sure you can squat well before you squat a lot.

Let's make sure you can hinge well and so on and so forth. And then, like, I could build a program for that. And then it's just about managing the stressors. And there's going to be bumps along the way. Like, when you're actively trying to push the limits of performance. I remember we talked about Ben Bruno, talking about him. And he's a really strong person, really strong. And he used to be really strong.

Like, if you go back to his old YouTube, and I remember him saying, there was inherently a part of what I was doing that was no longer healthy to lift weights, like how some of these people do. And again, when it's a competition, then it's not as healthy in anything. So I think you should accept those constraints

and then you program as responsibly as you can while still trying to push the barrier for that people i think it could be done responsibly it's just they have to accept the risk of what they're doing right and accept that it's not necessarily a health endeavor but it's a sport endeavor dig it right on man yeah dude this was awesome thank you for coming on the show thank you i love it great it's great. It was great. I really enjoyed it. Where can people find you? Instagram, movementasmedicine is our Instagram, and we pretty much post there daily with information. And then Certified Functional Strength Coach on Instagram is CertifiedFSC.

You can go to CertifiedFSC.com to see all our events. They're coming up, and we've got a whole bunch coming all around the world in 2019. Are you guys still touring with Perform Better? Yeah, we'll be at all four Perform Better summits at pre-conference this year. So you can catch us there

if you're at any of those and pretty much going to get to all parts of the United States. I was going to say, are you guys pretty much every weekend somewhere now? Almost, yeah. Almost every weekend.

And then pretty much all the major countries too we'll be in over the course of the year. Killer. Is one of those in Long Beach this year? Long Beach, yeah. Dude, we should go to that.

Party time. Yeah, absolutely. That's one of my favorites. Dude, we would smash. It would be so killer. We could get Dan John on there. We could get all the old guys. Dude, we'd bring Galpin with us.

Galpin's hanging out. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Have fun. Right on. For me, you can find me on Instagram, at Douglas E. Larson.

I'm Anders Varner, at Anders Varner. I highly recommend you guys going to check out the CFSC. It was an awesome, awesome certification. Even eight years into training, I still learned a lot. I dig all the people. I even got some business out of it just because that type of person is there that's trying to push the limits. And it was just a really good networking slash learning weekend. I was really stoked that I got to go.

And then two days of Perform Better was just meathead paradise. So definitely get over to CertifiedCFSC.com, right? Yep. Right on. I'm at Anders Varner at Shrug Collective. Barbell Shrug Wednesdays, Saturdays.

We'll see you guys next time. There you go. Thanks, Kevin. Thank you. That's a wrap friends we're hanging out with Kevin Carr what a good dude been to Boyle Strength Conditioning twice this year that's a good year in life when you're hanging out at MBSC that much

if I lived in Boston I'd be training there all the time make sure you're getting over to the One Ton Challenge all the cool kids are hanging out putting up their scores trying to hit the One Ton the onetonch ton challenge.com get signed up put your scores in let's see what your prs are we're gonna get you stronger we've got all kinds of resources coming your way and i'm so stoked to get this thing out to you guys uh our thoughts sponsors organifi.com forward slash shrugged. Save 20%. Whoop.com, 15% off the Whoop band

using coupon code shrugged. And then gethalosport forward slash shrugged. And you're going to save $120 on the prelaunch. And then, of course, vioreyclothing.com forward slash shrugged. Look, if you want to look fresh, you got to go to Viori. It's just a fact at this point in time. You want to look fresh. You want to look good. Vioriclothing.com forward slash shrugged. Friends, we are going to see you next week.

I am incredibly excited. Monday, we've got episode one coming out of the One-Ton Challenge. Wednesday, we are hanging out with Dr. – oh, no, Jordan Syatt, not Dr. Jordan Metzl. Jordan Syatt, Dr. Jordan Metzl the following week. Gary V's trainer. Pretty radical. Awesome dude. Super stoked.

And life's so good. Let's keep this thing rolling. Thanks, team.